Mike Murphy Asks: Will The GOP Finally Cut Trump Loose? | Bulwark on Sunday

crown coins winning never sounded so good what would you do if you won big at crown coins casino real people win real prices every single day hi this is michael from georgia i won 40k and finally renovated my home visit crown coins.com sign up in seconds enter code crown and get a free lucky wheel bonus you may win up to 10 000 sweeps coins crown coins.com that's c-r-o-w-n coins.com no purchase needed code valid for new users only void were prohibited by law 18 plus terms and conditions apply hi bill crystal here welcome to bulwark on sunday very pleased to be joined today by my old friend and partner in various schemes schemes i'm just yeah i'll just call them schemes that's kind of neutral right you know over the over the years capers right uh mike murphy uh coming to us from southern california so how are you mike i am i'm happy it was after 10 long years a lost decade for conservatives at least non-populous knucklehead conservatives uh the the trump tanic hit the ice uh i'm a little worried about what comes next because i'm still kind of a right-wing nut but you know first things first and uh it was uh i i was making bets it would be really big it was really really big i mean worst really since 74 after watergate so pretty amazing country coughed him up like a hairball it is striking i mean just i've also there's always a lot of on team wave and thought it would i said 56 57 that part i was right about but the uh i didn't expect the magnitude the depth and the breadth of it you know the the the house but also the governors the state legislative chambers well let's let's talk about that and talk about what it does for republicans conservatives for the country maybe for democrats even but i you you were you're you're a cold war buff i think maybe when you didn't you study russian i have this vague memory of this in college weren't you going to become like a big you were going to become a big you know counter a spy well i went to the foreign service school georgetown russian area studies i'll never forget uh major piragoff a defector great guy barking at us and parade ground russian every morning you know um and then i ran away to join the republican party in 1980 really late 83 before i graduated but yeah no no so let's do some criminal but you like the cold war criminal yeah and also it's very appropriate i was thinking about this someone said to me after i was doing a little bit on friday on some podcast i think someone said well you know as i believe it's different it's not the soviet but you know what with trump it's more in a normal white house it's a little silly to do that but at the end of the day who cares who's has which position it gets swapped by events and by the big trends right but in this kind of trump crime family mob situation the kind of intricate the the examination of who's doing what why trump's doing what he's doing isn't foolish so let's anyway it's fine no totally the zeman off faction you know the leningrad mob no it's true the the the the the the the the the true these authoritarian well first of all you know he is the sun god so it's the court of the ottoman turk or you know you basically want to know crump uh to crump trump land that was a Freudian slip uh just go watch death of stalin because you know it is all these cats vying for power and the attention of the god so now you know we we have this firing um you know the chief of party theorist uh and generalissimo stephen miller to continue the successful crushing of the kulaks so yeah but but you know here's my theory by the way yeah if you look at what are the thorns that have been in trump's paw for the last couple of months well first was the political consultant squad who are all wiles people uh savita you know james blair the political director they all made a runner for eastern europe to cash in during the midterms and they all made a runner for eastern europe to cash in during the midterms and of course trump nobody asked him big mistake with tony to go operate your own you know smuggling ring in the newark dock without kicking up so that was trump fury one and those are all wiles people you know it's kind of the florida gang people she brought in she was the ceo of the campaign then you got the you know these they can't resist the washington thing of spilling their guts to maggie haberman or whoever whenever they can so he had the big front page new york times story well well the everything but the ballroom is on fire they're all high five and they're like oh cyanide pills we're gonna lose you know sure made some money trump saw that and went crazy so meanwhile the ideological purist faction well you know the the miller gang can all do what policy warriors like to do with the political people oh they're all in it for the money they don't care they're mercenaries they're laughing at you new york times and the most deadly kryptonite bullet they're all leakers they're leaking to the enemy they're not loyal like me sir when it's just when only eight of us can fit in the bunker so you know it's all kind of piled up and then trump of course won't take crap i mean take responsibility for biggest disaster in party history last generation there's got to be a fall guy and the gossipy you know unnamed sources stuff is that wiles was trying to set up peg set you know hang gas prices on him uh and all all these charges are true by the way that's the Susie is the Beltway representative. Her daughter's a big lobbyist. You know, all the political consultants, money, money, money. And that Miller's bananas. So they're all shooting with real bullets. It kind of kind of ring true. But they got her. And now more will leave. I believe there'll be a jockey. Yeah, I want to get to that. But I think with Miller, I think the only thing I'd add is that he is obviously a true believer in ideological extremists. He has been since age 17. And there's all those clips of him being as referential as a younger person as he as he is now. He also is pretty effective in fighter and pretty effective enforcer in the administration. I've talked to people who know people who are still in, you know, career, even career types. And Miller reaches down and makes sure orders are followed, berates people who aren't. Obviously, we know about ICE. You know, they weren't arresting enough people. So part of that is in service. A lot of that's in service of his own deep, crazy. Fascist ideological views. But it's also in service of Trump. I mean, Trump, he would tell Trump that at least. And so I think Trump, I was thinking about this. If you're a mob boss and you've had a big defeat and even Trump knows it's a big defeat, he can't be that delusional. You need to tighten things inside. You've got to make sure you're not going to have more leaking, more defections, more disobeying orders, more people saying, hey, I could get I can have a future here. If I'm the one who exposes this grift, the Trump and Whitcoff, the Trump kids in the White House. Yeah. So I think the Miller thing is a big enforcer move as well. An ideological move, don't you think? Oh, completely. Look, if you're on the Titanic and you're watching the ice water move closer and closer and you're a second officer, you're no longer thinking about that. I remember to polish the brass on my top button. So the captain notices you're thinking about I think I can stab that guy and take the lifeboat. You know, so a lot of the memory, you've got careers there, too. I think they can join MAGA Incorporated and cash in as lobbyists. All that went up in smoke. So to thine own self be true, the survival instinct, the factionalized to survive, all becomes very strong. But if you're Trump, you're like, I've got to reassert my authority. I got to rule by fear here. So who's the creepiest and most effective henchman I've got? And there's one who's obvious. It's Miller. Now, if you define the classic job of chief of staff in a successful presidency, it's a good enforcer. But it's also somebody who surrounds the president with other opinions. It's to try to facilitate decision making. That ain't Miller. And it's somebody who can be kind of your back channel ambassador to people you need, allies, and even some of your enemies. Because occasionally you do have to negotiate budget shutdowns and all that. So you need a bit of a diplomat. That ain't Miller. So this is a very narcissistic Trump in a corner choice. It's also, I believe, the stages of grief. You know, first melancholy, then furious. Now, I don't. I don't know if Trump of resignation will ever happen, but this is clearly an anger choice, too. It's OK. They want to fight. And maybe he's trying to goad him into impeachment. You know, I mean, I think provocative. Yeah. I mean, I think he if I were advising him, God knows, I don't usually say that say that phrase that clause. But I don't have a stroke. That was a hard one for you. I feel like he would have want what he wants. Probably what he should want would be some weird combination of Roy Cohn or Roger Stone. I mean, Stone is some really tough. Clever guy who will totally unscrupulous, but not that ideological. But you do want to have to cut the deal sometimes and throw your throw your allies under the bus, including your including the landing deal. If the Dems get the presidency, which I don't think is any lock, people conflate midterm and presidential. But if they they have a better generic chance as of today, if they do, somebody has got to negotiate the exit plan without the, you know, DOJ trying to put you in jail for a decade as you sit in your your your convalescent home. Absolutely. Pardon me, maybe take care of that in the court decision. But I agree. I mean, he's got a lot of family, a lot of other people. No, I yeah, I think it's a it's a slightly weird pick in that respect, but maybe he just didn't have I was thinking about who could he have taken? I mean, you know, someone like Whitcoff, I think, would be a more comfortable, you know, that's a total crony who will do whatever Trump wants. And obviously he's involved up to his eyeballs and all the grift and all this, but not tough enough, I think. And the kind of people he would want, he would want the kind of the sane and non disgraced version of Corey Lewandowski, I think. I mean, I don't know. You know what I mean? A kind of tough. Yeah, no, no, I think he says, all right, we're heading for the bunker. The only people in the bunker are people I completely trust who are loyalists. who know that steiner is going to attack any minute and it's all going to turn around so and are not in his eyes careerists you know the fact that the washington echo chamber elite governing crowd hates miller is a badge of honor to trump you know he bled on the floor for me he's not going to wind up at the continental group making five million a year so trump is getting the security blanket he wants i think with miller you know he may figure he miller cracks down for six months they they they so whether this out they keep some discipline internally and then he of course can stick it make another change if he has to worry a little more about and miller can go on a purge and slaughter all the suspected right you know um uh traitors to uh chairman stalin's revolution here even if they're guilty or not there'll be heads rolling everywhere and trump will like that he thinks we're cutting the cancer out so now the victory is out I deserve will not be held up by you know personal agendas and traitors you know what about remember you're dealing with a crazy person here you got to think about the world well that's true i'm probably being too too trying to be a rational mob boss but they're all half crazy of course right right but they're more than half crazy so do you now i say friday people were saying oh that winning never sounded so good what would you do if you want big at crown coins casino real people win real prizes every single day hi this is chelsea from dallas i just hit the jackpot one over one million five hundred k visit crown coins.com sign up in seconds enter code crown and get a free lucky wheel bonus you may win up to 10 000 sweeps coins crown coins.com that's c-r-o-w-n coins.com no purchase needed code valid for new users only void were prohibited by law 18 plus terms and conditions apply saves hexath because their fellow right-wing lunatics i think the opposite i think don't you think i think do you think hexath's i mean he sacrificed wiles was the scapegoat for the election doesn't he have to get rid of hexath as a scapegoat for the war don't you think or am i wrong you know again the the thing about bringing in uh a doberman like miller is if the master wants it the doberman will kill anything or die trying so if they do the calculus that hexath is not good for trump uh hexath will be you know that's the end of hexath he'll be falling out of a helicopter on the way to a push-up challenge at fort bragg you know i mean they're these guys they're not a sentimental crowd one of my favorite not favorite one of my most depressing trump stories is i i wrote a movie about young trump in atlantic city for hbo and um it's still kind of bumping around development world but it's based on a book called trump by a guy named jack o'donnell who was a young tiger in the casino business worked for steve winn went to work for trump thinking he was his great talent of course it's very disillusioning it's a real metaphor for the presidency anyway the he talks about there were three big win executives who went over who were legends in gaming two of them died in the helicopter crash in the trump helicopter trump was supposed to be on it so he's at the funeral and one of the guys who died his brother is there and he's crying after you know his brother gets killed in a helicopter crash at like 43 and trump turns over this guy and says look at that weakling i can't imagine crying in public like that i mean total lack of empathy sociopath 101 so yeah they might have a fondness for uh for hexath but you know hitler loved his dog he was first to get the cyanide so i don't think they're going to spare anybody if they think it's in their interest the counter argument will be from miller well we're going to show weakness if we get rid of a proxy for you and that generally in politics when people say we're going to show weakness it's the right move to make because it's retreat and counter-attack but it almost never wins the argument oh we can't look weak let's do a stupid thing for another week and you know get more get more damage but that's a powerful argument remember trump's brand of strength and he now looks incredibly weak and that's gonna be hard for them to reconcile yeah i agree with that i know i gotta think though the kicks that's the one he is he wants to blame the he was yeah it's the easiest cleanest suck it into the war by hexath suck it into election complacency by wiles now it's a new start but i agree but that will also make him double down on other that's i think fits with though some of the ridiculous posts i mean going after the enemies using doj even more aggressively i mean i feel like you'll have to show strength at the same time if you sacrifice weakness so that a lot of the media is going to be understand i mean we'll all be kind of confused because it's like is he retreating is he is he lashing out but of course he'll be doing both right right right and he might be trying to be preemptive because the democrats are smart and there's no guarantee they will go into the war is incompetent the contracts with elon the no bid stuff hexath flying around you know the kind of the hexath version of the cash patel stuff because they're going to go paper with subpoenas and it's kind of cool tactic for them to connect the war to prices to incompetence and corruption all in one button the poster child in the middle of it will be will be hexath i think i think the other thing trump's probably thinking and you know miller did work for jeff sessions my old client i'm embarrassed to say i did his first election the committee sent me down there because he was losing and we turned around me and john weaver by the way a name you don't hear these days but i digress so you know they're going to try to use the lame duck to change the channel here go find something to fight over that that's not the you know the end of the gop at the midterms and so miller is enough of a hill guy to kind of know all right what maneuvers can we make what fights can we make bring clarence thomas in here to resign maybe we try a supreme court culture war something big that can get this trump is over thing off the headlines and so if they do the the hexath execution it kind of gets in the way on that but it also is a reset you know it could be a one-two punch no it is striking i mean i think he wanted to get rid of suzy was to get rid of suzy was on the other hand he also wanted he did it three days after the election and it doesn't i mean this will sound stupid he's sort of changing the topic but we are talking about that before we get to the election it doesn't matter the election is the election the results are the results the reality is the reality i mean obviously it's not like he's not a spin thing but from trump's point of view he always wants to lose the election and he's not going to lose the look you know in charge and in the center right and i think in that respect he's okay he's okay with a lot of speculation about the white house and the administration and stuff right that's well he kind of gets the game show you know who's going to be the new hexath i by the way i hear with dana white moving in now to potentially be that baron von roschke is ready to uh take over the position of a secretary of defense or sergeant slaughter it's going to be a real fight this can you imagine oh one one more internal thing that we'll group i should talk about the republicans a little in the next year and next two years and all kinds of real stuff but this stuff is kind of real too as we were saying what about vance i mean what do you take of his maneuver on wednesday with that uh you know post on x but also just more broadly where how was he positioned yeah just quickly on staff the one point on the way out of the topic the other thing to watch is the mid-level you know the kind of the operating who are republican careerists who thought all right i'll do my tour in maga or i believe in this policy they're going to go flying for the rest of their lives so they're going to have a lot of empty desks and and all that and then you're going to have the reign of terror purge from miller for anybody whoever like you know the white house shows the bulwark ip address popping up uh so the the the the important people in the middle who run the boiler room so to speak and they're going to be a lot of them out which means more junior people come in who are probably more fanatical or for them 26 this is like a level 18 levels higher than they thought they would get to at age 46 you know right and they're happy to have that level even if it's a slightly disgraced administration but no it's doge again the children are going to run wild while the technocrats could be pretty crazy don't you yeah look out greenland i mean i they're looking for smoke bombs to change the channel but vance so i've been a vance bear for a while because i think he's going to have all trump's enemies and none of his friends or very few including potentially trump he's also the backward candidate in a forward election so i think they kind of know that and there aren't a lot of good choices but i it looks like i mean early hints they're kind of hinting at well trump was great love him but trump got deluded he gave up on the true mega gospel foreign wars a little too much corruption we all love him but i'm the pure real deal hundred proof no screwing around young vigorous mega and so he's getting the native is no wars thing right now you know it's already risky from those old russian days my favorite joke uh we were told it was an old stalin joke during world war ii two generals are walking up to the kremlin igor and boris and igor says boris you look so so nervous what's wrong and boris said well i got a big battle with the germans tomorrow if i lose stalin's gonna shoot me and igor said boris if you win it's worse he'll shoot you and your family there's only one hero in the soviet union so if maga starts embracing pure jd vance how's trump you know in this crumbling palace of weakness and failure with miller in his ear saying they're all out to get you sir you know how's he going to react to that not good for vance so uh i i would take the field against vance i don't know who but i would since we've gone to that and since you actually know a ton about presidential races having run them and been involved in them and so close to them what what do you think about that just just to go to 2020 what is what is the gop how does it look to you well you know first world presidential is you got to strap them to the hood of a car and run them through 300 car washes to see if they still are breathing you know you don't know that they're in the cooker but generically somebody outside washington who's an executive and generational change i think this is true of both parties so when you look at the r's you know i don't want to belabor historical uh stuff too much because it's never you know it can be somewhat predictive it's never guaranteed but after nixon you know the energy to have something very different was so strong so they the dems plucked a little known governor out of georgia that nobody was talking about after 74 and the campaign thing i will never lie to you you know i'm the anti-nixon i'm not part of watergate i think there's going to be some of that energy in both parties um particularly when the democrats hit reality if their new majority and expectations are high so i think desantis thinks he can i'm a real conservative but i'm in florida the bastion where we won you know jolly was it was unfortunate campaign because he should have won that thing but uh the governor's race down there for the d's but the outspent out out a lot of things um so there's desantis and the other problem to use a joke i've used about uh stephen miller desantis walks by a dale carnegie charms it'll burst into flames you know he isn't the people person so you know my long shot right now and if i were younger and wanted to like you know live in comfort inns for 314 days glenn yunkin is a little bit more of a conservative but i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative and i think desantis is a little bit more of a conservative But I'd watch governors. The other thing is, look at the terrain always. And, you know, the Republican calendar is going to look a bit more like the old calendar. but on the democratic side which is kind of winning never sounded so good what would you do if you won big at crown coins casino real people win real prizes every single day hi this is michael from georgia i won 40k and finally renovated my home visit crown coins.com sign up in seconds enter code crown and get a free lucky wheel bonus you may win up to 10 000 sweeps coins crown coins.com that's c-r-o-w-n coins.com no purchase needed code valid for new users only We don't know the Republican thing yet. Those are all open primaries at the beginning, other than Nevada, which is closed. Michigan, the new South Carolina, is an open primary. New Hampshire is open. South Carolina is open. So the voter formula is not necessarily closed left-wing based stuff, which people always assume about the Dems. And the African-American vote is not progressive in South Carolina. So, you know, then does Wes Moore hit there? I mean, we're over on the Democrats now. Yeah, that's good, though. It's wide open in my view of both parties, but I would short Vance and I'd watch Dark Horses. No, I, yeah, that sounds right to me. And I think just wide openness of it, the uncharted waters of the moment, who knows what the world looks like six months now? Who knows what literally the world looks like in terms of wars, you know, possessions, straightforward moves, closed or open, you know, turmoil everywhere, the Saudis going nuclear. I mean, God knows, right? And then Ukraine, Russia, who knows what the country looks like and the markets and recessions or not and AI. I just feel like there's so many moving parts. Record debt, which is, I think, going to be an issue again. That's going to be part of GOP 2.0. So somebody who can play the fiscal conservative old hits again, there might be some power to that. You know, you just kind of have to line up the forces with the positioning of the candidates and then see how good they are. Yeah, Youngkin, I think, I live in Virginia. He wasn't my favorite guy or governor, but, you know, he was, yeah. He did a pretty good job of straddling the world, MAGA world and normal world. He won in a swing state. He then got out. Luckily for him, he was one term, he was term limited. So he got out and wasn't involved at all in 26. I don't know if you can campaign for anyone much. It's like the old Bob Dole joke when he was head of the RNC after Watergate. You know, what do you say about Watergate? And Dole used to say, well, it happened on my night off. And then after the laughter died down, he had a great tag, which was, I was pulling another job in Chicago, you know, to show he was in on the joke. So, Youngkin, it happened on his night off. And to most of the country, he'll look new. And they're shopping for new. I think the voters across the board are shopping for new, something different. You can see the power of Telerico and the two Iowans, Tariq and Sands, Hamilton and Kansas. So that those jet streams are there. And I think somebody who can ride them might do well in the primaries. I think the generational change thing is very big, don't you think? It's gotten huge after three straight elections with Kamala wasn't. But, you know, it was Biden till near the end of Trump, Trump, Clinton, Trump, Biden, Trump, Biden, sort of. And then, I mean, no one has the stomach for anything. I don't know. Could it be someone who literally just showed up? I mean, I sort of was wondering about that. I wouldn't count anything out. You know, Trump literally just showed up. I mean, he was a reality store, a reality show celebrity. But so, you know, name ID helps because it's hard to break through. But yeah, if you're credentialed by something else and you're a good political communicating operator, which is a rare combo. But yeah, I think that would be very new. I mean, that was McCain's secret weapon. People didn't see him as a politician, even though he was politically experienced. They saw him as a credentialed as a war hero and a reformer and a maverick. He wasn't part of the system. So, yeah, there's power in all that stuff. Bickering old men is not what they're looking for. Tallarico, I mean, I guess he can't really, well, he could. He probably shouldn't really run. Well, Obama was in the Senate for about an hour and a half. Yeah. And Tyler, so did you see the Saturday Night Live thing last night and all the open, cold open? Yeah, he popped up through the floorboards. He was good. Yeah. And it wasn't great, but I mean, he was good. But the fact that they want, it just shows how much, I mean, Ossoff also is a slightly more experienced young guy, but they're, I don't know, I guess I, but you're right. And then the non-political type, of course, I think always remains. Those people don't usually work out except for Trump. They're great on paper and then they can't perform as candidates because it's like dinner theater. It helps to have done it for 10 years to, you know, walk out on a stage and entertain. Trump had done the equivalent sort of, you know what I mean? That's what's weird about Trump is he's been such a ludicrous, you know, publicity hog and, you know, entertainer in a way that he actually turned out to have real political skills of a sword or demagogic skills or entertainment skills, you know, which most of the time. Skills of being the center of attention. Yeah. And the thing that, God, it struck me from 16 when we when Trump really started going and we were doing the focus groups because people saw him for eight years in primetime sitting in a cardboard set designed to look like a boardroom firing Gary Busey for not selling enough snow cones. They literally thought that he was a great executive and he would be able to make Washington work again. Yeah. Deals. The grievance stuff came later when he when he really got the mic. But the original thing, why the regular Republicans in the primary shocked all of us who we thought the gun control and the Schumer and all that would hurt him. No, no. He was going to untangle the knot of Washington and make it work with those, you know, deal making skills they perceive from. It's like the TV doctor who gets asked, you know, walk into the grocery store. I've got a pain in my elbow. I'm an actor. It's all fake. People subconsciously don't believe that. Right. So, yeah, it'll but, you know, the rotation theory, too, it'll be close to a polar opposite of Trump, not necessarily ideologically. I think this populist menace is going to stick around the party for a while, if not call the personality crazy one for own Trumpy. But some of that. But it'll be stylistically, I believe, very different, competent, sober minded, forward looking people rotate. You know, I like to say people vote for what they think they did not get the last time. Axelrod's version of that is they want a remedy, not a replica. Right. And if you kind of look at history, you know, you have to simplify a lot. But there's some truth to that. Yeah, well, Carter's the great example, obviously. But in a way, Ford, who wasn't supposed to run, you know, he said he wouldn't originally. The fact that he and Reagan become the finalists, whatever you think of either of them, they weren't like Nixon. One was a true believer and the other was a nice guy. You know, Jerry was all American pie. You know, Bob Gardner's great jingle, feeling good about America. We're back. Another week, Ford would have got it. He was going straight up in the polls. Carter, never lie to you. I go to church, you know, every Sunday I'm a deacon. And I mean, if you look at it, so you had Bush one, you know, genius of foreign policy, but couldn't read a supermarket scanner. Oh, he doesn't care about us regular people. So we go to the trailer park and we found Clinton who knows us regular people a little too well, because now we have, you know, Playboy mentioned in the white house. So what do we do? We go to the classy guy's son. Who's everybody's tailgate buddy, you know, cleaned up his own act. You know, we're back to a little Southern Carter Methodist, young Carter's case Baptist, then we figure out this is all perception, not reality, but that's what counts in these things. You know, maybe he's, you know, strategery, not so. smart. Maybe this war was a mistake. We need a genius. Well, we go to law school and we find Barack Obama, the great Pericles orator. So now we got a genius. And then the genius gets rolled by the Brazilian minister of sport over the Olympics, starts drawing red lines. Everybody's laughing at, oh, he's too weak. Okay. So we need a tough guy. Well, now we're at reality TV with the big boss, Donald Trump, going to straighten everything out. And so now it's going to rotate again. How? Ideology, generational, don't know all the details, but it's going to rotate. You think normal two-party situation though in 2028? I mean, can you do a pro successfully this time? If the Dems, Dems would have to go left, right? And the Republicans would have to go right, I would feel like. Yeah. If I were the Dems, I'd go middle-class technocrat rather than lefty El-Sayed, you know, warrior. Don't you think technocrat with a popular, more populist economic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. First word in politics, corporation now on both sides, which was scared the hell out of me. If I were Mark Zuckerberg, by the way, those guys, you know, it's their church. They've gotten many gifts from the almighty. They need to kind of do a little more or they're going to be on the menu in my view, in American politics coming up, this tech stuff is real. But yeah, I think middle-class economics in the future, fair deal, that, that kind of stuff rather than justice warrior stuff. Um, but we, you know, we, we have to see what the presidential nominee races, you know, well is going to be soon 2027 because the primaries are all January, February, the count, the early ones that frame it. Uh, and by the way, you know, you and I have cooked up a few conspiracies in our long experience. My preferred conspiracy now is everybody, but Vance, I'd even put Ruby on the category, him too. We ought to send their political people to meet in a room somewhere and agree. We should loosen the Republican winner, take all delegate rules. So the process goes longer and there's more testing. So what's left of Trump and if it's Vance can't roll the system and win a couple of primaries, then it's over. You know, we tend to be winner, take all social Darwinist loser, no delegates, the Democrats, you have a good song. You come in fourth place, you get two delegates. So the Democrat thing, the Republican thing goes on forever, which is actually more grueling on the candidates and a better acid bath. So that going to much more proportional delegate awarding in our system on the repub side would be smart, I think, for the party and bad for Trump legacy incorporated, which I think people want to get away from. By the way, did you see the Nolan Finley thing? Remember him, the editorial page editor, Detroit news been around forever. You know, he's the James J. Kirkpatrick, he's always been the rock solid Republican called for Trump's impeachment today in the new in the Detroit news. You know, that's what I wonder. I mean, people say, well, impeachment would be imprudent or they say the opposite. He deserves to be impeached, both of which may be true, incidentally. But people honestly, it's so early. I mean, we have no idea what the world will look like six months from now. Nancy Pelosi did not plan to impeach in January of 2019. There were a few people who said he did a lot of things in the first two years that deserve it. She said, no, no, no, that's not why we won. And he did the Ukraine stuff with, you know, the whistle bin men and others came forward and Fiona Hill and we've learned what happened in the White House and they impeached because they really could not at that point. If I think if you're sort of, you know, right, sorry, you're running the Congress or the House, at least you can't just say, you know, that was kind of unfortunate what he did, but we're going to not do anything about it. The degree to which events are going to drive things that you think what happens in the war, what happens and find out corrupt the Pentagon deals are and Elon's running the world. And, uh, Finley's argument, is Trump mightily screwed up. He was given the world's longest leash. And if the Dems do it, 13 Republicans have to decide, let's have the crack up now, not during the next presidential election. Uh, you know, why not? It's coming the end of Trump, let's speed it up and reset. And it, for a guy like that to be for this, you know, he's not a mega populist nut, but he is rock rib. You know, he's been at that paper five decades. And, uh, I, I just thought it was kind of a canary in the coal mine thing. I retweeted it, but you can find it at the Detroit news. And, uh, it was remarkable to me. And I think a lot of Republicans are quietly thinking that why don't we just, and it doesn't mean, Hey, let's go find Nelson Rockefeller or make the Democrats. Right. But you know, we're, we're, we're going to have more disaster here. So maybe we cut to the chase and start the rebuild now because one guy's in the way. Interesting. Do I think it will happen? Probably not. Are there enough senators who hate Trump right now looking at the corpses of all their pals and their former chairman shifts? No shortage. Interesting. Now I do think that's, uh, people underestimated my experience. I mean, these waves are, when you really get away like this, we, as you say, we really haven't had a wave quite this way, but even a 94, 2006 type wave, you know, it's shocking and not shocking, but it's striking at first. And everyone's, Ooh, that was really a big wave, but there's a little default to then nor business is normal in people's minds. It's natural. It's inevitable. The daily incentive to one goes back to, but they, I think these things do have second and third order effects. I mean, I think that if you look at 95, 96, it was crazy. Newt was much more four or five days after the election was still on Republicans. One that's pretty impressive. Two months later, it was like new was king of the world eight months after that, or 10 months after that Clinton was destroying it. I mean, I think people don't, and you get into this kind of situation where things get much, not the normal 40 yard between the 40 yard line maneuvering, and you suddenly get a wide open field. And I kind of feel like that's what the next year or two is going to be like on the hill and at the presidential level and in the real world for that matter. Don't you think? I mean, yeah, well, yeah, well do like the a hundred day scenario. We, we have more stock market turbulence as the AI thing maybe is a little bubbly. We have a foreign adventure that gets even worse because you know, through the hoop, these rain is now controlled the red sea entrance too. So do we have to send troops to clear that out? So, or, you know, Miller says something insane about Greenland. Uh, so the foreign policy thing gets worse. Um, economic stuff gets worse and the Democrats do smart hearings on corruption. We find out they're stealing everything blind. So for now, a hundred days in the 2027 and all the Republican candidates, all a hundred of them are just seeing the beating going on. The numbers are terrible and they desperately need to find oxygen. Uh, and Murkowski and Rand Paul, and a few of them say, I'd support impeachment like three or four. I won't, you know, people laughed at me when I said, Biden's going to get hounded out. I used to fight with acts about this on our acts on tap podcast. He's the incumbent president. There's no way when it tips, it really tips. So, you know, if this thing cooks for six bad months here, even three or four, there could come a moment and all it would take were three or four of them to say it enough already. And then there's a bandwagon for the more timid souls to jump on. And Trump sees that happening and decides to invade Cuba. I mean the degree to which, and then the military says, wait a second, I'm not carrying out this order. It's totally ridiculous. That's what we could get real craziness, you know, internal as well. I think that you think I feel like it's yeah. Yeah. For the good of the country, they ought to hold some ceremony. This will get the joint chiefs person fired and you know, then Sergeant slaughter will get the job, but I'd have a national constitution day where every officer just for public consumption and to calm people down repeats the oath they take, which is not to the president, but the constitution of United States just to kind of remind everybody that that would be a helpful thing in our public discourse. So as things get rocky here. Yeah, no, I think the degree to which we'll have, that's sort of like 1974, I guess the closest we all came to that. And, uh, from the accounts, we didn't know it at the times. I don't think, but later accounts of that Nixon's really being sort of crazy and checking out and forward, obviously a new vice president, not elected. I mean, it was a pretty, did you read Rumsfeld's book about some of this stuff? No. Yeah. Yeah. Rumsfeld people think of Rumsfeld as the, you know, Bush, he and Cheney were the young moderate, you know, hotshots, I think late thirties who ran the Ford white house. Right. And Rumsfeld before he died, wrote a pretty good book, kind of a history of that period and how they landed the Nixon plane, which was very tricky. I think it was called when the center held something like that. It's not long, it's just a great memoir of that critical period. I highly recommend it to people. He probably did it seven or eight years ago. Right. Rumsfeld had been chief of staff and then moved over to DOD and Cheney became chief of staff, but yeah, Rumsfeld and Cheney were there, you know, whatever one thinks of them and they're, I admit my fights, especially with Rumsfeld later on, but, uh, and Kissinger's at state and national security advisor. And again, complicated figure, but obviously a serious person, Jim Schlesinger at defense, uh, other real people, uh, in other key positions. I mean, I'm not sure that's the case in this white house or this administration. That's really, no, you can't find any serious people in my view, or at least, you know, there are serious technical people, but not right. The cabinet is ridiculous. So the plane won't get landed and that, or could may not get landed in which case who the hell knows. Right. I mean, Nixon was essentially rational with, you know, deep character flaws. Trump is without shame, but anyway, that's my homework for our, okay. That's good. That's a good thing to. Yeah. Book recommendation is always a good thing to end on. Cause they're very worried about Nixon. You know, how do we. Yeah. And plus if we never, now we talk about impeachment and we talk talk about we know this there's never been a resignation there hasn't been a right for obviously in a century i mean people we forget how uh and how quickly it all happened incidentally at this time there was no thought of this and after the 72 election god knows where he went to landslide there was no thought of this in early 73 i mean yeah this is where when you get in this kind of situation events start to move it really at both great speed and totally unpredictable unpredictable directions when if they start to tip and the center gravity shifts the speed at which it accelerates can be quick i mean this whole thing could pop in a week if the precursor is foreign trouble horrible polls terrified republicans economic scariness trump misbehavior and crazy activity and all those ingredients are on the kitchen table here now whether they get mixed together or not i don't know but it's uh yeah and the lame duck and even this new lame duck which normally i would say oh come on they'll just extend the cr or get past appropriations bills and do nothing much else and well everyone will go home and figure out what to do on january third of next year but i don't know this could be pretty pretty wild few weeks here right and we're gonna have it'll take a while but we're gonna be in deep budget standoff because trump's lost all his power over the federal budget the dems will weaponize it and the process is slow enough but you know we're gonna have all kinds of standoffs over funding everything and you know we're gonna have to wait and see what happens next we're gonna have to wait and see what happens and you know he'll try to govern by executive order and just ignore the congress but there's conflict a coming there is and we'll have to keep a close eye on it mike thanks so much for for joining me today really oh thanks pals great to see you fun fun discussion and the jaw fun not maybe not great maybe not entirely upbeat for the country i gotta say even though we're upbeat on the elections obviously better than the opposite think of the opposite outcome one thing i would just say if people say to me well still a lot of problems it's not inconceivable that trump could have uh governed differently it's been at 45 instead of 37 right in the on election day they could have they would have lost the house anyway i think but you know they could have lost held on to the senate or 50 50 kind of thing maybe and what would the country feel like then if trump had gotten a semi-ratification of what he was doing, we'd be in a totally different country then. Well, if Trump wasn't a narcissistic lunatic and actually used the tools of the presidency to persuade and curb the policy excesses and maybe the grafting corruption. So it's kind of like if a hippo could fly. Yeah. But you're right. There's a scenario that is not this one. Which is why, I mean, I say it less, yeah, partly for that reason, partly just to think that, I mean, the public deserves a lot of credit for this massive rebellion, I think, against Trump. Trump deserves maybe a little more, even more of the credit. But, you know, the elites were not rebelling. The elites were all sucking up and going along, right? The public actually. No, it finally happened. It took Old Faithful a while, and then it just totally blew. And by the way, for you kids out there, because we know this is the cutting edge of the next generation here, the old white guy podcast. Write this down if you ever go into politics. Tariffs are a loser. Trump was the only guy, you know, with IQ over 80 in the world who thought tariffs are a great idea. And it essentially murdered the Republican Party, historically more of a free trade party. So the irony is thick. And drive electric, too. That's my other advice to you kids. We'll discuss the electric car agenda at some point. If you're going to go to war, get congressional authorization, too, because even if the war goes badly, you have some cushion, which Trump had none, right? And that is what's striking. both the tariffs and the war were totally his. All his. Yeah. And the tone and tenor. I mean, look at the vibe of Marshall, excuse me, Hamilton, and. Tallarico. Tallarico, Sands, and Turek. There's politics of love as part of the rotation. And that'll be an interesting class with the Al-Saeeds and the AOCs who are like, you know, we have to go raid the corporate, you know, citadels of greed and get even. uh i think they're going to be a little out of favor i think some of both i guess but yeah yeah mike thanks a lot for taking the time thank you pal and we'll be in touch and uh thank you all for joining us on bulwark on sunday winning never sounded so good what would you do if you want big at crown coins casino real people win real prizes every single day hi this is michael from georgia i won 40k and finally renovated my home. Visit crowncoins.com, sign up in seconds, enter code CROWN and get a free Lucky Wheel bonus. You may win up to 10,000 Sweeps coins. crowncoins.com, that's C-R-O-W-N, coins.com. No purchase needed. Code valid for new users only. Void when prohibited by law. 18 plus terms and conditions apply. Crown Coins Casino.