Midweek Mailbag: What if the Lions Passed on OT/EDGE?

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You can find me at Detroit Online on Twitter and social media with me as always to help answer your Detroit Lions questions as we are just a smidge over two weeks away from the NFL draft is the general manager of Pride of Detroit as we're calling him seasonally. He's also known as the machine and you can find him at Eric's foot on Twitter. It's Eric's foot. Eric. We're live again. This feels like I feel like I say this every time we go live, but it feels like it's been at least two or three weeks since we've done this live. Yeah, it always does. It always does. Yeah, the PODD behind the scenes, the three or four hour podcast and it just extends to the time. But this episode, this is for the common people. This is for the everyday people. Not to, I mean, we love our Pride of Detroit to Eric's subscribers. We give them super sized episodes, but of course we want to make sure we're giving everybody some love. That's what we'll do this episode. Obviously, being two weeks away from the NFL draft, a lot of this is going to be draft centric. Don't worry, there will be zero roadwood discussion. We have moved past that. You don't need to worry about any of that. We don't need to send us any more tweets, emails, comments that we need to stop talking about this. We're done. But we are going to start with some kind of news a little bit here because the Avantamatics signing happened yesterday, Monday afternoon. I think it's led to some people having some questions about what it means for the overall scheme and things like that. So we'll start here with John, John @JohnX on Twitter. Ask what is with only one outside signing at Linebacker in Dement Clark and Rodrigo Noesky resigning. Does that lead you to believe the lines are going to have more five, six DB looks due to so many defensive back signings? It's a good question because we talked a little bit about this in the PODD. The episode where you look at the roster construction that they've done leading into the draft. They're at a point now where they have nine draft picks and then 12 additional slots. 12 is exactly the number of UDFAs they brought in last year. So like getting to this number was kind of anticipated. And so once you get here, now you look at this roster and you say, where are they heavy? Where are they light and you have to then ascertain your decisions from there. Is it they're going heavy because we might see more nickel sets like John John's talking about here or is it that they don't feel like they're going to be in a good spot to get a safety. And so they're filling that room out because they're not anticipating maybe selecting one in the draft. And it's hard to balance those two different alternatives with the way that they've kind of talked about what they specifically Dan Campbell has talked about this potential defensive shifts. I'm leaning more towards the ladder of them just like saying, hey, we want to make sure we're set at safety. We got a couple of injuries to some key players. We just want to make sure we got a lot of depth there and a lot of really good competition. And if the draft falls a certain way, then we'll shift more to nickel or we'll shift more, shift our base around or something like that. Like because there's some options on where they can go, but I don't think they've necessarily decided we're going to be a little bit more nickel heavy. That's why we're going to invest in more, you know, more safeties and hybrid nickel guys. I think I disagree slightly. And it's only and it's only because of the five linebackers. Five. That's all they have right now. And eat safeties. And obviously, I think there is going to be some overlap with the nickel position there. I think some of those guys are probably going to get more looks at nickel early on and we just don't know what one of those guys. There's so much to look at. But here, let me lift, let me list off the the amount of linebackers that they had last year around this time. Alex Anzaloni, Jack Campbell, Derek Barnes, Malcolm Rodriguez, Grant Stewart, Trevor Nahuaschi, Anthony Pittman, Ezekiel Turner, Ben Neeman, Kwan Alexander, Abraham Boeplin, Doron Gilbert, 12. 12. That's a lot. 12 versus five. Yeah. And I mean, I expect them to still add a veteran linebacker at some point, right? They, I don't, I don't expect them to just fill five more spots with rookies and UDFA's and draft picks. Like, that's unrealistic. And so it really does have me wondering now, I do think some of, I, we obviously still have to see how the draft plays out because I expect them with one of those first two picks to add a defensive player and that defensive player can be the thing that tips them in one direction. It can be, you know, a, a, a sand blindbacker can be a big and it can be a rush and it can be a nickel back. But we're going to talk about like pretty much all of those scenarios I think in this, in this show as well. And so that might tip the scales in one direction or another. And but to me, just the, the heavy, heavy focus on defensive backs, this free agency and I understand it's a lot of, you know, one year, two million type dollar deals. So they're not like heavy investments, but it's just a lot of bodies. And yes, I do think some of that is very much what you just said, like they need to cover themselves for two strange injury situations. And I can't say necessarily that signing both Chuck Clark and Avanti Maddox has me feeling great about Kirby Joseph and where he's currently at. But the numbers are just like, they're so lopsided that I can't attribute it to nothing. If you look at the defensive backs as a whole, it's, they have 15. It's 15 defensive backs compared to five linebackers. And so I certainly understand the perception that that could be that they're going to shift more towards more nickel sets, specifically utilizing a safety. Like the way they use their nickel, their situations where they're going to want to use the like a corner, like a cover corner. And then their situations when they're going to want to utilize the safety, like a safety. And oftentimes with branch, you just, you can roll him down and, you know, can Kirby has the range to cover and they can kind of two birds with one stone with those two. But when you're going to the backups here, or the guys that we're expecting to compete for potential starting roles because of injury, those guys are going, you're going to have some of those guys potentially contributing in the slot in addition to like McCurry, who I think is more of a cover corner, who I think is probably going to play mostly inside it. But he's got some outside range too. So I'm not going to discount him there. We might see Ennis trying to kick in as well, right? Well, but he did call more of an outside corner at the league meetings. Well, I think they're hoping he's an outside corner, right? Right. It certainly would give them a little bit more security. But I do think the shift towards more of this, this safety nickel, you know, hybrid guy is certainly the direction that they seem to be wanting to go in. So it sounds like you agree with me more than well. Not, I mean, maybe, maybe again, I don't think I don't think it's solidified. That's that's the thing. I guess there hasn't been like a significant investment in the nickel position, but because you signed McCurry, because you signed Izzy and because you brought back the Vante and Chuck Clark can even play some nickel as well. Like there's played there in the past as a record played there. They're deep there. They have options there. I don't know if all of them are outstanding. And like, I guess the point is like you have good depth there, but do you have a guy that's like, well, he has to be out there. He has like, we need that nickel out there because he's such a talented player. Now this is me going back in your direction where it's like, I think a lot of this boils down to who is that 11th player? Is it a Sam Linebacker? Is it a. rush end. Is it a speed rusher? Is it a nickel? And I'm not sure they have a game changer where it's like, oh, that's the guy we want to give 70% of the snaps to 80% of the snaps to. Yeah, ideally, I think they want to stay a hybrid flexible, right? And which essentially means they have 14 starters and 10 of them are on the field all the time. And then 11, 12, 13, 14, you know, are those guys are all rotating through depending on the defensive set. Yeah. Kind of offshooting from this question and Ash, so to ask, the prevailing feeling is that the signing of Maddox likely rules out drafting a safety this year could a single high type prospect still be on the board as we've got a lot of strong safety guys, but no, no one other than Kirby and Harper who best fit at free safety. If so, who are the best fits? Yeah, it's certainly something that I noted when I was building my depth chart, right? I wanted the slot Maddox in right behind Isian, but I just put Chuck Clark there. And that's also where Lauren Strickland is. And so it was like, oh, I got to move them over for optics. You know, so it looks somewhat balanced. But in reality, Thomas Harper, Kirby Joseph, maybe Dan Jackson, are you're kind of free safety, you know, guys, a bot, they can do it. But I can play all all three interior spots. Yeah. I think Isian can too. Isian, Isian's interception against golf was at free safety. So like, I do think there's some guys that can play it at the same time. The free safety guys are the guys that I've kind of been scouting at safety. Like there's a couple of them that I think will be there on day three, though it's certainly be appealing to the lions. But it's stacking your roster with eight guys, maybe not. Maybe it maybe I'm wrong. I certainly am intrigued by they don't have a pure centerfielder outside Kirby. I think at all, a lot of them can play. Let me clarify. Just I don't want to make me think it's like a weak spot. But yeah, here's, where I'm having some trouble with this question is that I'm not counting out safety at all in the drift. I know the numbers are high, but are you like the lines aren't attached to like any of these guys that they just sign. You know, all of them are under $2 million deal. Most of them don't have a ton of guaranteed money. I mean, Dan Jackson's roster spot is not safe right now. No, he's like safety seven or eight. Right. I think it would be seven right now. Right. And then that's that's the unfortunate reality that he's facing. But at the same time, it's like, again, I don't know if they have a game changer in their words. Like, Oh, no, we can't stand upgrade there. We're fine. And so whether it's a free safety, whether it's a strong safety, like I still think safety is on the board because they don't have any long term solutions. If there's any concern about Kirby, obviously, I think that the long term aspect with Brian is he's going to be fine. So there you find. But like, if a free safety is there in the first round and they think he is like a can't miss prospect, I am not counting that out in the first round, huh? Yeah. No, I listen, guys, I feel like we've drifted so far into the offensive tackle and edge conversation that we've forgotten who Dan who, who Brad Holmes is and Brad Holmes is a guy that'll tell you time and time again, you draft players not positions. You draft good talented guys. And with this offensive tackle class, we've talked about a few times on the POD cast like, there's holes in most of these guys. There are not a lot of like can't miss offensive tackle prospects in this year's draft class, which kind of tells me that I don't know if they think, you know, obviously, I don't think he'll down just going to follow them. But McNeil Warren, if they like him, if they like them in like interviewed McNeil Warren at the combine. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, I'm not, I'm not counting it out because what does the defense need more than anything right now? Playmakers. Playmakers. Both McNeil Warren and Demonin are, they can play free, they can play nickel like they can do both. Like you can bring them in and they can pair with Kirby or they can pair with Branch. And if both Branch and Kirby are healthy, then you just play them in a slot. You know what I mean? Like it's there's ways to get all three. So like, yeah, there's, you can easily justify taking downs, McNeil Warren or Demonin in the first round because of, but from a long term perspective, or maybe even, you know, sometimes this year, you might be able to see all three on the field. You're just the shift like that by taking him, then you would for sure be doing what John John was asking about, which is you're, you're heavily shifting towards a sub package base. Yeah. I mean, bring the three safety looks. Why not? Play a little dime. Yeah, look, I mean, like McNeil Warren is very interesting to me. He's big. He can, he can run in the slot. He can, like I said, he can play some free. He's, uh, he's a guy that I think is probably, for me, he's going to be safety too. A lot of guy, a lot of teams are going to have theme then as a safety too. But I, for me, I think McNeil Warren fits the line style a little bit better. It would, it would be a little bit off from what I would expect. And, you know, but, you know, I'm sure we're going to, if we haven't got a question about, you know, what's that out of left field question? Like, right. McNeil Warren could be the guy. Yeah. No, I think that's kind of, I think going to be the general theme here of this, this podcast in particular, just like, yeah, let's, let's stop talk about the offensive tackle. I think, I think the sense that I got from all the questions we guys, like, I'm sick of debating the offensive tackles. I'm sick of debating the edges. Let's, let's talk about something different. Everybody's going to like my question of the day on Wednesday. Good, too. There you go. Oh, I forgot about that. Uh, next question here, uh, again, sticking with the seam comes from Jason Mueller, ask what non edge non offensive tackle projected to go before 17, would be worth upending the offensive tackle. First round strategy if they fall to lines unexpectedly. Um, so obviously, Downs is going to be a guy that if he were to fall because of positional value, the positional value argument. Or the top by player. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he's, top 10 player, you can get him at 17 to worth it. I don't think a guy like, sunny styles is going to fall, but again, be worth it. Yeah. Like, there's enough flexibility there where just, you know, throw him, I don't think you're going to move Jack, but you can play some well. No, no, you play him well. Yeah. And so like, those two guys are really, if they're there, you take him like that. That's, that's, that's that, um, like with McNeil Warren, I think his value is going to be in that range. So you're not, he's not a guy that's like for sure going to be ahead to 17. So I don't think he fits the parameters of this question. Um, I think really corners kind of the only position other position. I was going to say, unless you want, unless you want to talk Kenyans to Deek and, well, and again, I, I, we talked about this a little bit on PODD as well. Like, I think Sedeeks, that's his range. Like, yeah, you don't think that's wrong. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that would be like he's, you know, a top 10 guy that just slides the 17. I think 17's in his, in his range. Like Delaney is, you know, he's the guy that a lot of people are expecting to go early. Um, I like McCoy stylistically a little bit better. I get the idea for both of them. Yeah. But again, McCoy, because he's coming off an injury, 17 wouldn't be out of the range for him either. Right. I don't like any defensive tackles. Um, that I, Vega is the guy that we've talked about. Um, yeah, he's a guy that should go before 17 in, in all, you know, realistically, but again, guards not a premium position. It tends to be undervalued by teams. So 17 wouldn't be unheard of to, to get him there. Um, they're not taking a wide receiver or running back and or quarterback. And so like, yeah, I really think you're, you're looking at either Vega or a couple of the Ohio State. Babies defensive or defensive players or yeah, maybe a couple of the corners. If they fall again, sticking within the parameters of this, this question of who would, who should go before 17 that might slide? I will say like not to go back to safety again, but part of the appeal and this to be clear, I'm not advocating for this strategy, but as a fan, part of the appeal of grabbing a safety at 17 is that the Minnesota Vikings are picking right behind you and they have a retirement safety. Yes, they want to see real bad. And so if you can take one off the board, it's kind of double dipping in a way, but at the same time, the Vikings are kind of my least, the least of of my worries in the division right now. But yeah, yeah, but yeah, I just, I don't know, I, I just think one of those guys might be overly appealing to them and corner two, right? Like, those are two positions that like, yeah, they have guys in place right now. But big questions are on all of them. Big questions about DJ read, big questions about Terry Arnold, big questions about Kirby Joseph. At least for the start of the season, questions about Kirby about Brian Branch's availability, not that you're going to necessarily want to be working to come in and start right away in a place of one of those guys. But it's just you always have to one, remember that we are talking about Brad Holmes who insists that he never drafts her need. And two, that I actually agree with the general overall strategy of drafting for long term need rather than short term need. And yes, edge and offensive tackle are very much long term needs. And if they address those positions, that makes sense. But I think so's corner. I think so is safety. I think so is linebacker. I think you could maybe argue guard. There's just a big question mark at left guard. Maybe they have the long term solution. Maybe they don't. And that's why Kenyan Sidiq is not something that I'm viewing as like no shot because there's questions at tight end long term as well. Yeah. I'll tell you where you say in the portal. Then you're right. Which I expect them to do. But if Sidiq is there and they decide to trade the portal, it's a very risky move. But it's one that would solve at least some of their financial problems. And that's some they have to be a little bit of a problem solving team when it comes to their finances right now. And sometimes that's going to involve a little bit of an out of box move. But I still don't want them to do that. All right. Let's let's fit one more in here before we go and break this one comes from Polar Polish. As it feels like a lot of people are expecting offensive tackle in round one, then edge in round two. What are some other players from different positions? You wouldn't be shocked if the lines took with their top two picks. So we kind of already focused on the round one guys. I think maybe we focus our our our we shift our focus to some round two non offensive tackle non edge players that you like. I don't think they would go tight end. I think that would be too early. So non tackle. I don't like a center at 50. I don't I just there's a couple of them that I think could sneak into round three. But this center class and I know there's a bunch of people out there could be in like saying like oh they're starters. They're starting. I don't know. Right. It's it's a hard I haven't been in love with this center class much this year. And I think there's some guys that will challenge for starting jobs or maybe they could walk into starting jobs. But maybe not guys that I think are off the bus ready to go type of type of place. So what are your thoughts on Jennings Dunker because I know this is kind of skirting the question because a lot of people view him as maybe tackle as as a possible tackle. But I think most people maybe consider him as as more of an inside guy. I think he's an inside guy. I think in the line scheme he's an inside guy. But there are a lot of people that I respect that view him as a tackle. And so I'm taking that into consideration when looking at how the lines may view him because he started for multiple years at right tackle at Iowa. Like he got to be good to do that. Right. That's just part of the nature of playing offensive line at Iowa. I just think his his feet are a little too slow for me. I love his tenacity. I thought he plays better than he tests. And I really liked his energy even beyond like the whole mullet and coffee and all that stuff that makes him a fun character to enjoy. I think he's a good player. He would be good for a line's run game. It's possible if the lines don't get a tackle in the first he could be in the mix at 50. But again, I like him more as a guard in a line system. So it'd be harder. It'd be a harder sell for me. But I would understand it if they if they viewed it because like I said, there's other people that see something that I don't right now that that like him at tackle. You didn't like defensive tackle at 21. But at 50 are there some guys you like there? Yeah, let's talk about it. If people are going to talk about value in sliding, this is the area that I'm the most interested in. And I think it's a very sneaky need for the lines because you don't know what to have in Levi. You've got a second year guy in Williams. And then McNeil's you know, he's still coming off of his injury from where he recovered and came back last year. And so there's and there's not a lot of depth behind them. And if Levi is going to be there for I, which they've talked about, you know, him being that like it's a low key need. And I wouldn't be surprised to see them grab a TT at 50. So Peter Woods, Caleb Banks, Kate McDonald, Lee Hunter, Christian Miller, those tend to be most of the people most people's top five. The ones who intrigue me the most, I think are Kate McDonald because he's very much like Tyleek. I mean, they play the same role at Ohio State. He when Tyleek left, McDonald's stepped literally stepped into Williams role. So you can see the translation. Lee Hunter from Texas Tech is a lot like a lean McNeil where he's this big nose tackle. He was 318 at the combine, but he played heavier than that. He's closer to like in the 330s. But he's got some quickness to his game. There's some past rush. So it's that fits with what they're looking for as well. These kind of nose tackles who can kind of get up field. Caleb Banks is also for me. If he can play some nose tackle, I think it would be more appealing to the Lions. They've brought him in as part of a local visit because he's from Detroit. And he's certainly got the size. He's 636330 almost, but he played more of like a three technique for I. He wasn't really like a nose, even though he's like a nose size. But that's and again, I feel like that's kind of more of a long turneed though, right? Well, of course, but but having a good nose tackle behind Williams is also kind of you need some depth there. Because a lot of their depth is 3 is that a 3. Yeah. And that's and that's where you Williams. Yeah, I know. But and I think Peter Woods is more of like a pure 3. Yeah, can kick to the 4i type of guy. So those are the guys I'm going to be watching to see where they slide. I could see a guy like McDonald because he's such a good run defender. Polity leak and slide into the end of the of the first round. Right. I could absolutely see it. But I could see bank slide. A little bit of an entry history, not a natural, not a clean fit in one spot. I could see Lee Hunter slide because again, he's not an elite pass rusher by any means, but he's kind of a big, unique guy. And those guys, those most tackles slide. And he could he could he could be there at 50. And I could see them pull the trigger. Excuse me. A guy like Dominic Orange is kind of right on that fringe with me where I could actually see him because he's also kind of like a past rushing nose tackle. I could I think most people have him a little lower. I can see the lions liking him a little bit more and maybe saying, Oh, maybe we'll take him at 50. So all right. Well, this is where we would normally take a break. But in unprecedented midweek mailback form, we have an ad read to read because the private trade podcast is brought to you by righteous felon craft jerky. 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Then you got to go back to 15% off which is still a great deal but don't get me wrong. 26% off. It's quite a deal. So make sure you go to Pride of Detroit or you can go to reds felon.com. Make your order and type in draft POD 26 at checkout. When we come back more draft questions here some some non-draft questions as well when we come back here on the mini week mail ban. We'll be right back. Introducing Odo. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? So why not you? That's odo.com. Recommendations can be amazing. I mean, maybe someone recommended that TV show you've been obsessed with lately. But when it comes to home projects, it's different. If you don't like a show, you might lose a few minutes. If you hire a friend, a friend, a friend to fix a leaky ceiling, you could end up with a flooded kitchen. Maybe I know a guy just isn't enough for your home. That's why thumbtack works so well. They'll match you with a top-rated local pro, and you can see photos of past work, credentials and reviews all right in the app. For your next home project, try Thumbs-Hack. Hire the right Pro today. Welcome back to the Midweek Mailbag here on your Pride and Detroit podcast network. Let's just jump right back into your questions and still talk some more draft here. Next question here comes from Billy Joel. I'm guessing not the real one. Oh man. Man, he has a bunch of numbers behind it. One is what would your thoughts be if the line selected Venga in Round 1 and then Kiante Scott in Round 2 leaves a massive hole that offensive tackle an edge, but man, those guys would be studs immediately and Venga specifically might cover the offensive tackle hole a bit. Potential to trade away a guard at that point. Ah, okay. That's a lot to unpack. Let's start off. Iona is really talented. Right. He's incredibly talented. He is a plug-and-play 10-year left guard. Putting him, if you shift Penet to left, which is what is anticipated, right? Whether the Ato T or a Borm state starts, you're going to put him and Penet next to each other would be borderline unfair. It really would. I was in love with Larry Warford when he was at Kentucky. I just pounded the table for him. I loved everything about him. When a lion's triathlon, I was over the moon. I get the same kind of bipes. He's a stud power guy who can just do almost everything in a great way. So I'm not going to argue the value. Right. Or the fit. Or the fit. I think drafting him and then trading away, you don't need to trade. I mean, I don't want to think you get good value trading someone away too. Why? Just keep him and develop the young guys and see what you get with them. But I could reasonably understand why they would take him. Might be the best offensive of the line men on the board at the time, right? Maybe the best offensive lineman in the draft. Like there are people saying that. Yeah, I know. For the system, the lion's run, I do like a couple of the tackles equally with Vega. So I would understand it. Taking Keonti's got it 50 is about it goes against everything that I logically want to do. But it would fill a gutter old need that I have to add a player like him to the roster. Yeah. Because I don't know. Keonti's got this safety nickel hybrid out of my army. He is everything that I have wanted the lines to draft in the secondary for the past three years. He is my Devon Willerspoon of this draft. I think he's a guy who can blitz. He likes when he hits people, he knocks something the snout out of him. He's got good ball skills. He can cover. He lives in the box. But like his range of what he can do, it's all it's just I don't see a lot of limits with him. If you put him in the lion system, plug in play starter. Love all his game entirely. He is not over valuing him either. If he's there at 50 and they took him, I'd be like cool. He got great value on that on that player as well. He is the DB that I am just like kind of over the moon for in this draft. So again, Billy is tapping into my kind of like caveman needs. Like these are the things where I'm like, man, these two guys would be amazing. But it certainly would leave holes in the roster. But if those two guys are on your roster, your team is better. 100% and ultimately, I don't know. Maybe I'm maybe I'm falling for smoke screens. Maybe I'm falling for them being more in love with Larry Bournem than people think. But I'm not I'm not discounting that sort of thing. I'm not discounting Brad Holmes. Going away from his path of just like, let's go get dudes. Let's just get talented guys and we're going to figure out where they fit after. And I love that strategy. I do. Yeah. I think it's a very sound drafting strategy because I think safety is a perfect example. And where you you could think you have things figured out for the next 10 years. Three Joseph Brian branch. Wow. Top two top five safeties and they're both on rookie contracts. The line line's second back end is going to be set for the next decade. And it can all change in an instant. Yep. In an absolute instant. And the best way to fight against that is to just grab good players. Just grab good players and not think too much about need. And again, like I think it bears repeating that especially if you're talking about edge and you're like, let's make sure we get an edge. If not, it's like offensive tackle an edge. That's how we're going to take in that order. If you're taking a second round edge, don't expect immediate impact. Doesn't typically happen in a rookie season for anyone drafted really beyond like what the top 15 picks, top 20 picks at edge. And in a lot of cases, that's true of most positions. If this team is relying on a rookie at 50 to play 800 snaps, good luck. Good luck because that usually doesn't work out well. And so that's why I'm just like, get the dude. Just get the dude. And I am curious. And I'm going to ask you this because I haven't looked at a ton of Kiantes got film or anything like that. Like, why not earlier? If he's this guy that can do so many things. If we're watching a team like the Seattle Seahawks dominate with kind of that weaponized nickel safety hybrid. Is it just positional value that you think he doesn't go in the first? I don't think he has the range to play outside corner. And he it would be a bit of a stretch to make ask him to play safety as well. I think he is a nickel that you just put it nickel and you just he's your nickel. That's that's all he does. Fine. He's a little bit. He's just under six feet. He's a hundred ninety three pounds. But and he throws his whole body into everything. So teams sometimes get weary of could he get injuries? Right. At that size. But he knows how to hit people in my opinion. So like, I'm not overly worried about that. I really think he's a he's a box defender, hang defender, nickel defender. And that's about it. I don't I don't think he can go in. But it look he can give you 800 stabs like he's right. That's the type of guy he could be. Right. Like he but that might be all he does. Yeah. Alright. Well, the next question Tim Bauer says the next question Tim 1213 on Twitter says while there are many things that have been discussed as to last year's failures, I keep going back to Dan saying that there needs to be more competition. Is it possible that there was at least some complacency concerns or is it more likely just the next stage of maintaining success? It's it's a good question because I don't know if we exactly know the answer to it. And I think there's a little bit everything involved, right? I do think they needed to reset their youth from a financial standpoint. That was probably the main driving force. By great. But he was also so. so mad about at the end of the season and talked about getting back to the basics. It does make me wonder if there were some complacency issues. And when they basically, when they lost to Pittsburgh, after they lost, at that game, they were kind of the thargic. And then once they lost to Pittsburgh, that next game, they were garbage. Like it looked like they quit in Minnesota. I remember you said that. Yeah. It to me, it looked like they had gone completely complacent and phoned it in. And they were like, well, we're done. And that was so uncharacteristic from what I had come, what we have come to expect from a, from a Dan Campbell led team that, I think it, it, it ticked them off. Like I really do. And so I, I, I do think there could be something underlying. I don't think we'll get an answer to it. Right. I certainly think that could be possible. This question is why I went back and watched Dan Campbell at the owners meetings, because I do feel like he's been leaving some breadcrums suggesting exactly this. One of the, one of it was exactly what you said at the end of the season with his, like, hey, we need to get back to where we were in 2022, 2023. He kind of said the same thing again at, at the owners meetings where he's the word salty and youth. Yeah. Once salt clears, we need more, we need more salt. We need more guys that have their chip on their shoulders that have this, this drive. And I don't know if it's complacency or not because, you know, he, he, he consistently said things like, you know, we're working to miss guys like Alex. We're going to miss guys like, um, Decker at, but those guys don't have as much of a chip on their shoulder anymore. Right. Like, Alex, one of the guys that they, that they saw leave this off season kind of don't have that same, like, Amique will always have a chip on his shoulder. He's like, I'm not sure if he's going to have a chip on his shoulder. I'm not sure if he's going to have a chip on his shoulder. Amique will always have a chip on his shoulder because that's who he is. I'm not, I'm not sure if he's going to have a chip on his shoulder. Yeah. But like, you see what the guys they added and I mentioned this very early in free agency, like a lot of these guys have something to prove. We're career. He got traded last year and barely played, but they played a little bit with their amps. You know, a lot of these guys are maybe coming off an injury or coming off serious questions. They're on contracts that are like, "Prove it deals essentially," and they've come to the trade to prove it. So, call it complacency if you want, but I think they did go out specifically to get young, hungry guys that have shown something in this league, but have never been trusted by their organization. So, your first wave in free agency was Kade Maze. And then after Kade Maze, your second wave was to add like Larry Bournem. That third wave was when you got Conklin, McCreary and Izean. They all have one thing in common and it's the same thing Alex Anzaloni had in common. He was a starter and he got replaced and he's mad about it. And so, he wants to prove that he's a starter, all three of them. Yeah. That were a stat were starters and then they got bumped and they were and they're mad and they want to prove that they can start again. All right. Next question here comes from Tim Thomas-Tivo at Lions UK NFL. Shout out to our UK buddies over there. There was very little staff turnover this offseason, especially on the defensive side. Is this a link back to Dance 2022 offseason where the Lions made the most out of continuity and a whole offseason to review and plan? I don't know if it was how early in the conversation he brought up at the owners meeting, but he just gushed over how much he liked the defensive staff. I really think he gave them a pass on some of the injuries that they had to deal with. And I think it's ended at like, how much Eppers Rookie season, right? Yeah. Yep. Yep. The youth of Calvin, right? Yeah, I agree it almost seemed purposeful that they didn't make the changes on defense. And maybe that's continuity. Maybe it is to make sure that they're all on the same page in prepare for what's to come. Certainly could be those. But I don't, I mean, I can't speak to it and say that's for sure what it is. But I think it makes it makes sense. It's a good argument. I mean, it's interesting to see the coaches he has loyalty for, right? Yeah. And it kind of has been well, I was going to say it's kind of been and often like because he's an offensive guy, he maybe has a little less patience on that side of the ball. But that's not really completely true either because like they've rotated through a lot of corner backs coach, they've rotated through a lot of defensive line coaches. He's been obviously pretty loyal to the coordinators themselves. But because I think he he does rip the core rip the the the parachute a couple times after just one season, I think it's noteworthy when he says, you know what? I believe in these guys. There must be something he actually sees there and not saying it's right or wrong necessarily. But it's not it's not a situation where it's like, oh gosh, who was the offensive line coach that a called well was too loyal to. Oh, Ron, Ron Prince Prince. It's not he's he's the reason warfare left. Like a man bring it back. Yeah, so it's I don't think I don't think it's I don't think I think Dan Campbell has shown enough where he's not just going to be loyal to guys for no reason. He's he's willing to try and roster. So the fact that he believes in this entire defensive staff means something to me and I'm willing to hear him out on that. I would have like to see I would have like to see more than anything in addition rather than necessarily subtraction. But I think I think it's also easy to lose sight like after that buck into yours game and aligns were like four and two after that game that was that was that was a legion home game. There was talk of like Calvin Shepherd being the assistant coach of the year. Like me and it comes like this guy is an up and rising or that defense is bawling out. Like I don't want many people did so many people did breakdowns of that game because the chef was in his bag. And I think that's enough promise. I'm not going to sit here and be like well, the injuries was the reason why everything went off the rails like no, Shepherd made some bad decisions down the stretch. He made several bad decisions, probably a lot of bad play calls that he wants back as well. But you saw you saw the glimpses. You saw it in that game. You saw it in the Baltimore game, right? Yeah. And so I think the hope is just like, yeah, like any rookie season for a player, you're going to have ups, you're going to have downs, you're going to have downs and you just hope with time with experience with learning lessons with an off season to go over your own tape and self scout. You see a little bit more flat lining in a good way, not in the dead flat lining way. Let's also be clear the two guys that he has backed and went to bat for from like to stick in coordinator spots for multiple years. They're both head coaches in the NFL right now. Like he has a good track. He has a good hit rate of guys. Like if you stick, if you can make it past a year, you're going to be all right. You have a future. If you don't, that's silly. Like he'll make he cuts the cord quick. Um, true. I would say I'm guessing some people would quote should have brought it back to the parachute. Pulse the. Yeah. Darn it. I will say some people probably still question whether he was too loyal to Aaron Glenn, especially. Oh, yeah. Oh, you're one went. Um, I mean, in the top 10 defense in 2024, like it's not for this. This team was trash. Like that. I know that was a bad team like he did. He was doing this. But the dysfunction of like firing everybody in your two sure. Yeah. This is, this isn't an air Glenn podcast. Good. Good buddy. Rob B with our next question from Predatorate Direct. One of our subscribers. Appreciate your Rob says with Brad talking about Levi being the best. Big end. Can you guys do a bit of a deep dive into big end versus Russian versus three tech versus four eye? How many snaps per game does big end play? Where does a wing go fit? And then he talks about some draft guys. I'll get into that in a second. But let's, let's kind of. If you can in a succinct way as possible without visuals because this is a podcast. Kind of explain big end versus Russian and where they're specifically lined up. Yeah. The big end is, is, is in a lot of ways going to mirror like that four eye role that we talk about. You're, you're going to, you're going to line up at the four eye, which is on the inside shoulder of the offensive tackle. Or you're going to line up at the five, which is head over the, the, the offensive tackle. That role is typically what they like to utilize. they have a Sam linebacker drop down to the line of scrimmage and then they can drop the Sam or they can bring the Sam on a pass rush if the big end can occupy that tackle to create a rush lane essentially. Levi last year they used Aleem, they used Lacey in that role, Pat O'Connor in that role. Levi was in it the year before until Aiden got hurt then he had to leave I had to rotate out but that role works typically in unison with a Sam linebacker. The I call it a base end but essentially it's what is the other end when it's not the 4i, when it lines up at the 7. They call it a rush end but they also call what Aiden does a rush end. So basically they have in a 4 or 3 you have two rush ends which means those guys are rushing the passer but then when you want to bring the Sam on the rush end opposite Aiden that's when that guy kicks in and usually you replace him with the bigger body. So that's typically what they do. They rotate between a 4 man front and a 5 man front by shifting the outside and opposite Aiden inside and then bringing down a Sam. And so when you hear rush end that's Aiden that's outside the tackle maybe even outside the tight end. And wanted to be clear too DJ one. Yep and they did that with the having port last year. You saw it some with Muhammad last year as well. So that's the way you need to think of it. It's just where it's just a matter of where they line up. The more you move inside the more the bigger they want you to be. The more you're outside the more athletic they want you to be and and then they just give names to the different guys depending on their position and where they line up. Now in terms of the amount that each of those positions plays it's obviously highly dependent on matchup. It's highly dependent on what they decide to do and what players that they want. In years past the rush end is generally your guy that's playing at least the first two downs. You're your first and second down guy and then I mean you'll you'll do some Sam on first and second down every now and then but like it's thinking about essentially you know how often when he was healthy are they playing Marcus Devon for versus a Levi or Lacey or Pat O'Connor whatever guy. And so you look at those snap counts and it's it's like two to one essentially. Yeah and again it varies depending on like you said depending on opponent because when they go to nickel they lose one of their interior linemen as opposed to losing one of their edge guys. And so you play a nickel about like you would think losing a linebacker would be the same as like you know you know you know you take the linebacker off the field you have two linebackers and then you bring that fit defense it's not like that with the lions. The lions will run like a three three five which is technically a three three five but that one linebacker ends up being on the line of scrimmage because he's the Sam right and so it still looks like a four two five in its formation but the personnel wise because they like to use that linebacker so much it's more like a three three five and again it disguises because of how they line up and they'll drop that Sam down and the Sam will act like a rush end but they're technically a Sam because they're a linebacker but they play in a similar vein and so that highlights that highlights the value of a Sam though right is because if you just have a rush end there then you know he's just gonna rush to pass her occasionally you'll have him drop into coverage but you guys hate winning the Hutchinson does that so but if you have a Sam there you can rush you can drop into coverage you know one of the other linebackers can't conrush and he can fill that spot like there's just so much more you can do and disguise with with the Sam so like I kind of want to advocate for the Sam a little bit because I can sense people like let's just get rid of the Sam and play nickel. Sure sure and I get that too because traditionally that's what a lot of teams do and and for most teams it's it's straightforward you've got your four down line men you've got your three linebackers the one linebacker leaves when the fifth defensive back comes out and it's very easy to see and understand and the lions because they try and play match up and they try and like disguise and you've got this complicated system of like edge slash linebacker hybrid guys and then you also have interior defensive lineman that also play edge and so you've got all these guys that flex between positions to make them really a true hybrid defense and it becomes a lot more challenging to track and and and and figure out because like when you look at snap counts you're going to be like oh they played nickel 50% of the time in this game so they probably played less linebacker oh no they still played the three linebackers 80% of the time right what happened what how did that happen well it's because they played the one nose tackle 30% less and then that's how they got and so it's a complicated system and the key is just understanding that the system thrives on hybrid players the guys that can flex in between different spots really quick uh wingo i don't know i'm i'm struggling with final for wingo i think he's a he's a past rushing three technique yeah and if they thought he could play the four i they probably would have tried them there last year and they didn't we've saw a little bit of it as a rookie but not a lot and we saw none of it last year um i wonder if he's just kind of limited and look right now there's the path for him because there's not a lot of other depth and uh on that so there's still a path for him right now if they start adding defensive tackles and they had a past rushing deep and that's not going to be good news for wingo uh oh really quick because Rob brings up three guys that might fit that like big end um on day three that you could maybe find in zane d'orant from pennstay caliproctor from southeese luiziana and who's the last one uh landen robinson out of navy yeah uh i wonder if he is a subscriber to my uh you're a f-word because i literally have all three of those guys next to each other along with um tyler own uh i always pronounce his name brunk own yeetam from uh texas anap yeah all four of those guys are just under like 300 pounds they can play the three they can play the four i in a lot of ways they're kind of like leviones or reek a type guys um yes all of those guys can be like three technique four i guys that i think fit the mold of like a levi uh before we close out with one more question i do want it because i think it's such an awesome draft resource and we are only two weeks away from the draft can can i get you to promote your draft board for a second uh uh sure uh um so i it's i've i put my latest one out i don't know a couple weeks ago but uh as part of my i have a patreon account where uh if you subscribe to the patreon account it's uh detroit lines breakdown at patreon you could google it and i'm sure it'll pop up but i have different i like a tiered subscription you can subscribe like for like a month or um you know longer i guess but uh if you subscribe i put out this draft board that i believe that i focused towards being more towards lines based i give put i put a draft board out there i put depth charts salary cap i rank every player at every position um i'm always adding new layers i show the that where they rank on other evaluators draft boards as well and i put up important statistics that i think are are valuable to that position and i try and gear it towards lion's fans i just showed it if you're if you're listening to the pody cast the the podcast version the audio version i did just show a couple sells a couple uh positions of what it looks like and it's just like it's incredibly detailed it's incredibly well organized it's got color codes and it's it's just uh it's a lot a lot a lot of work uh put into it and it's a very like like i always have it up during these podcasts so that i have a quick resource of like hey what where did this guy go to school what was this you know 40 time how much of the height weight where did you know where do you transfer from all that information and a very easy uh accessible format and i always push for Eric to promote it more than he does because it's a lot of work that he does that goes overlooked sometimes well thank you i keep it as it's it's how i study i use it to and so if you want to get a peek in the in the mind of the madness exactly All right, let's close things up with a question from Jeff S. Another one of our Friday Detroit Directive subscriber says clearly the lines are need of both starting and depth tackle talent but I've been wondering what's the future of Giovanni Manu? Are we sure he makes the roster this year? Does he play out his contract and they let him walk assuming quote-unquote starter might be a bridge too far? Does he have any chance at catching on as a depth piece moving forward? Boy, you know you traded up into the fourth round to get him. So you definitely invested in him. You knew he was going to be a project and he's the type of athletic rarity that it could just click for him and I don't think they're going to want to wait on that. You know I don't think they're going to want to waste. Yeah, they're not going to give up on it. That's what I believe. So I do think they'll play out his rookie contract. At the same time I'm I think OT3 aspirations are probably his ceiling. Keep in mind I highly value an OT3 and I think an OT3 is going to start more games than you would you know necessarily want and so having an OT3 can be very valuable. I just haven't seen enough of him to say he could be in in a starter mix. So I don't think they're giving up on him. I think they'd love to mold him into OT3. Might not be this year but a year from now I think they'd be pretty sad. You know they I think there's possibility. I I think I agree with mostly what you said there. I the part that I would maybe contend with is I don't know if he sees all four years. I think this I think this is very much a maker break season for him because you know even last year there were there were rumblings at Jamarko Jones was going to win the backup the OT3 spot. Which could have I mean it would have pushed either Dan Skipper or Giovanni. But like they're not going to keep five offensive tackles. Were they? I think it was going to push Dan Skipper off probably like they would have probably put Skipper on the practice squad and been fine with that and all that. But there does come to a point where it's just like do we need a developmental OT4 on this roster anymore? Maybe I don't know. I'm not I'm not ready to close the book on him like you I do think OT3 is still very much on the table starting tackles probably off the table at this point. But you know if they do have to tackle he's he's OT4. Without question. I mean unless someone else jumps in like Devon Cochrane or the the the millions of people that seem to want Miles Frazier at a tackle like could be legitimate competition there. But there's there's not it there's no there's still a lot of questions about the long term everything a tackle right now your long term left or right tackle your long term OT3. So the opportunity is still there now. I will say though like if they draft a tackle and he's OT4 and you have a billion interior offensive lineman. I think there are going to be questions about whether you want to keep an OT4 when you probably want to keep Mahogany, Rattledge, Maze, Frazier, Scrugs maybe like we're going to be running up to like nine 10 offensive lineman without him. And I don't I'm with you I don't think they're going to pull the plug on him but it's not going to be an easy decision decision to keep him either I don't think. Yeah I don't think he's written in pen. I just think you know six seven three fifty and moves the way he does like right. If it if it clicks you got something you know yeah yeah we're just waiting for it to click to see if it ever does. All right we'll close things out there I think you was always for listening to the midweek mailbag if you like what you're hearing make sure you give us a rating a review if you're over on Apple podcast if you're over on or Spotify Spotify does reviews too right Spotify now no Spotify does comments for each individual episode now they do ratings though and we do appreciate the rating we've been holding nice very strong at a 49 with a ton of ratings so we appreciate that as always and you know I'll throw another righteous film mention here make sure for the next two weeks if you haven't tried righteous felon yet now is the time 26% off using coupon code draft POD 26 but until next time that's Eric I don't know which way he's on the screen I'm Jeremy thank you all for listening yes be kind you hear a lot of talk about AI replacing humans curiosity invites a better question how will humans shape AI that's something SAS has been working on for decades they're celebrating 50 years in data and AI and long before responsible AI was trendy they were building systems around transparency governance and trust if you're curious about what responsible AI actually looks like visit sass.com to learn more that's s-a-s dot com