Michigan's Senate Primary Could Give Democrats Their Clearest Midterm Message Yet

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Things are heating up in Michigan as that state heads to the polls next week. Democratic primary for Senate, Progressive Abdul El-Sayed, sparred against moderate Haley Stevens in a televised debate last night where Israel and AIPAC were focal points. They traded claims about which of them would confront rising utility costs and which would be more focused on Michigan while in the Senate. Let's listen to a clip. You know, my opponent is on these big podcasts. You know, he's running a podcast himself. These folks are making fun of the way I sound. But yet, I sound like the people who need. help. I'm the only candidate in this race who's never touched a dime of corporate PAC money. I want to see long-term peace. I want to see a two-state solution. I am deeply proud to represent one of the largest Jewish populations in a congressional district in the country. This is a community that I have grieved alongside, that I've mourned alongside, and have fought to bring the hostages home. And I'm still working to get us to long-term peace. They've set a record in this race. To help elect my opponent because they know that she'll be a reliable vote. I want your tax dollars spent in Michigan to provide schools in Michigan, to build healthcare in Michigan, to build roads in Michigan. Jess, give us the color commentary on the debate. This race is a tough one. And it's really going to be the first opportunity that we can see if the far left can be a moderate in not just a blue district, right? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's going to be a tough one. I think it's going to be a tough one on a statewide level. And Abdul El-Sayed is not actually technically DSA. He identifies as a capitalist, which I think is a good thing and certainly should help him in a swing state like Michigan. But this means a lot for the future of the party and the internal dynamics of what's going on here. It is also increasingly getting uglier. The kind of barbs and insults that are being exchanged. It's going to be a tough one. But I certainly listen to Al-Sayed speak. And when he talks about these issues that he's passionate about, putting aside if there's a hypocrisy level to it, he, to me, is just more compelling. And his agenda is more in line where the primary base of voters seems to be from what we've seen thus far. We don't have a ton of data how that bears out, though, on a general election. Do I think that Mike Rogers, the Republican who barely lost to Alyssa Slotkin, would be more excited to face off against Al-Sayed? A hundred percent. And I'm really curious to see how it turns out that the Black vote actually splits. So Stevens has been racking up support from Black community leaders, especially in the faith community. This guy, Reverend Wendell Anthony at Detroit Palisades. He's a pastor who led the NAACP there for decades, just came out in support of her and said that he's concerned about Al-Sayed's support for the uncommitted movement in 2024. That's a big deal in Michigan, where a lot of people, because Kamala Harris wasn't strong enough or strong enough against Israel or pro-Palestinian, however you want to cut it, basically, you know, wavered about what they were going to do in the election. Al-Sayed voted for Kamala Harris. He has talked about that. And that he told people to, but he was associated with that movement. And I think that that is definitely a strike against him if you're being strategic about how do we win elections, right? Like it's Democrats versus Republicans. It's us versus Trump. And I thought that was interesting that he pointed it out. But Al-Sayed actually has, you know, a few pastor, Black pastors who have come out in support of him. And Haley Stevens went and spoke at one of their churches actually recently, which I think is a good thing, right? Like it doesn't mean all the congregants are for him. So I think it will turn into a race between charisma and a left-leaning agenda that primary voters seem to be into and someone who feels, you know, reliable and is focused on doing the work. Yeah, it's it feels as if this is an important race in terms of bellwether for where the party is headed. The results of the general where the where the country is headed, because Michigan is a bit of a bellwether for the rest of the nation. And if you were to split screen the campaign, it would be Sanders and AOC rallies versus Stevens doing these kind of retail visits to black owned businesses. So you have kind of national movement politics versus someone who's actually kind of doing the unglamorous math of winning Michigan. It's also somewhat indicative of what the Democratic Party is going through right now, because it feels as if all the creativity and dynamism and energy is coming from the left or the far left, if you will. But the big question mark is how does this play in a general that's a swing district? What you know, we know the far left is excited about this. How do moderates feel about it? And he does feel like I actually thought she did better. The little I've seen of her, I've thought she's not a very. And I thought she did better last night. I thought she came across as a little bit more, I don't know, real. For lack of a better term, I thought she came across as more Michigan. And I do think that in Michigan, I have this stereotype, I guess, of Midwestern people that they're just generally speaking a little bit nicer than the rest of the nation. Yeah. And I think she's going to hang this ogre on a pike thing around his around his neck and letting. Basically, it makes the. Case without having to make it herself, that this guy talks about killing his colleagues for sport when the cameras are off. I mean, that just feels like a really big own goal. It definitely is terrible phrasing for it. I think the best way if you want to swing it into an attack against Al-Sayed is, you know, John Fetterman's not particularly popular right now with Democrats. And he's apparently flirting around with the idea of actually caucusing with Republicans, even though he votes with Democrats. Dems like 95% of the time and really only feels differently to us about Israel and sometimes like DHS funding. But the argument that I think you can make about it, which is important, is that al-Sayed is saying that he wants to primary sitting Democrats and that that's an attack on the party more than it's an attack on John Fetterman or debating the ogre on the pike violence aspect of it. And I think that that is something for traditional Democratic voters that will resonate. If you say, yeah, I want people who are going to fight. I want that anger, that oomph. I don't want milquetoast candidates anymore. But I also don't want to be in a perpetual state of civil war where the left is always coming after the centrists or the moderates and making their lives miserable in a primary, which most of them have been able to. hang on, you know, throughout them. There have been a few cases not. But like you look at, you know, what was thrown at Richie Torres, for instance, and he won with over 70 percent of the vote, but had to waste millions of dollars out of a war chest because of that. Like that's what really sticks out to me about it. And how do each measure up in terms of polling in general? It's still I mean, it's hard to know right now. So the general consensus is that Stevens would be a stronger candidate against Mike Rogers in a general election. There's a new poll out that has her beating Mike Rogers. Forty five point five percent to Mike Rogers. Forty four point seven percent. So close, but still a win. And reminder, again, that's only one by two points. And then Mike Rogers beats El-Sayed forty nine percent to thirty eight point seven percent. Still about ten and a half percent of Michiganders that are undecided in who they're going to go for, which makes sense when you think this is a swing state. That's why they. They call it swing. So speaking of Michigan, Trump is also in Michigan yesterday speaking on the economy at a General Motors facility and appearing with Republican candidates, including Representative Tom Barrett, who has voted with Democrats several times to limit Trump's actions in Iran and is considered vulnerable. Trump touted what his tariffs would do for the auto industry. Well, it could be a hint what they're doing. While he blamed Biden and even Obama for economic hardships in the state, Trump continued defending his tariffs this morning. Let's listen. With the economy. And that's going to be a focus. I was your focus yesterday in the midterms in Michigan. Are you worried that the tariffs that you put forward over the last couple of days will will hurt the economy as they adjust in bringing manufacturing home? No, because it's bringing hundreds of billions of dollars. I was at General Motors yesterday. They have the best year. They have the most trucks, the most cars. The tariffs have saved General Motors what I've done to the auto business. So disconnected from reality. Like all the time. And the amount that we're bringing in from the tariffs, have you noticed how massively it changes? It's like, what did he say? Hundreds of billions of dollars this time. Sometimes it's up to $19 trillion that he's brought in between his incredible tariffs that were ruled illegal and the investments. He's completely delusional at this point. Just a little bit of background of what reality is on the ground in Michigan. His approval is at 33%, which is really bad. That's Sarah Longwell's Bush line is at 32%. So you're basically there. 7,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost. 3,600 construction jobs. The average household has paid $3,400 in additional costs since Trump got elected. Can draw a straight line from that to your tariffs. And 130,000 Michiganders dropped their ACA plan because the subsidies weren't extended. Because Republicans wouldn't do that. Just one in three, Americans currently supporting the war in Iran, according to the new Reuters Ipsos poll. So basically, if you're listening to Trump now, it's for pure entertainment. It is not for any sort of fact-based reality. Yeah, the tariff argument really only works as a bedtime story for a kid who is wearing MAGA pajamas. I mean, it's just, he's standing in a GM plant trying to sell, tariffs save manufacturing, where in a region where non-farm employment fell almost 1% year over year. And that's not spent. It's data contradicting him in real time. And then blaming Biden and even reaching back to Obama for the economic pain is kind of a tell that he knows his current numbers don't cooperate with his bedtime story. And you don't, you don't go, you don't reach into the barrel two administrations ago, unless the present tense is working against you. So, you know, Michigan's unemployment rate sits at 5% above the national rate with Wayne County, which is the state's biggest labor pool at 6.4%. The economy is great is a message equipping for a national audience that's just toned after the state he's standing in. And the gap between this message and the actual reality on the ground is the actual story more than anything he said on the podium. So this feels, I don't know, I don't, think this is more, I think he was there for turnout. It's, you know, it's kind of persuasion math reminding his base that the tariffs are for him and that they kind of buy into it. They're ignoring the effects at this point, believing it'll be long-term good to put America first. And those evil Canadians have taken advantage of us. I don't know how people in Michigan actually feel about that. The result of this is going to tell us a lot, I think, not only this primary, but this general, but tell us a lot about what happened. Anyways, I find it, I find it very, very interesting. I coach football. Now, Coach Hank saves up to 25% off grocery store prices, 30 pounds of pasta, three cases of protein bars, 75 sports drinks. And that's just pregame. He knows teamwork and BJ's knows savings. Home. Home of the Save. Join for just $20 at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. Limited time offer, new members only. BJ's, home of the save. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about Eblis? Eblis, labrakizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children. 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Eblis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to Eblis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Eblis. Before starting Eblis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about Eblis and visit eblis.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Cozy season is ahead and you'll be spending way more time inside. Is your home ready? Don't worry. Whether it's one room, one room, or one room, you can't miss. Or the whole house. Wayfair has pieces for every style and budget. Trump has been chasing voting restriction on multiple fronts. And it's interesting because it also seems like once he's out of office, he doesn't really care what damage that those initiatives or pursuing those initiatives due to the Republicans or democracy. Why do you think he's pushing so hard around this? I think that he's like a dog with a bone. About it. And he can't think strategically. You know, for all of the arguments that were made about, you know, Donald Trump has the best instincts and he's game planned out all of this. It doesn't feel that way when he's railing against things like voting by mail, which he does himself. We should note that he is a happy vote by mailer. But the stuff that he's advocating for just is going to make it harder for Republicans to win elections. Everything, from the way that you can actually vote to things like the Save America Act. And I'm glad that John Thune, the Senate majority leader, is just like, fuck off about this. I'm not getting rid of the filibuster. He went on Hannity last night and said it again. And, you know, it's leaked audio and it's direct audio where he's basically just saying this is a non-starter, certainly in its current form. And the president is not interested in any of the modifications that, like, sane person like Lisa Murkowski has laid out. So she has to go to the Wall Street Journal and write an op-ed about how the Save America Act, as it stands, is just going to disenfranchise voters. And she thought, I don't know if you read it, but she laid out the hurdles that people are going to have to get through to be able to vote, including the amount of time that they're going to have to spend, people coming from rural areas, especially in a state like Alaska, to be able to get the right documentation and to actually be able to vote. And so I think that's going to be a really So I think that he, as he becomes more addled and more childlike, frankly, you realize that these are his favorite toys. Like, you know, the Save America Act and tariffs are his Barbie and Ken, essentially. And he doesn't want to play with anything else. And the rest of you who have other agenda items be damned. Yeah. So day one of Lindsey Graham's funeral services were today, and they'll continue tomorrow in December. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky were in attendance. Both leaders also met with Trump while in Washington, and it's Bibi and Trump's first meeting since the start of the war in Iran. This morning, Trump said, And if they had a nuclear weapon, you wouldn't have Israel around. Frankly, if I weren't president of the United States, Israel today would not exist. Jess, is there a sense that any progress might be made on Iran with White House meetings between Trump and Bibi, or is the relationship getting worse? Definitely getting worse. And he's openly talking about it. He was saying on Fox and Friends, like, it doesn't matter what Bibi says. I'm in charge. And, you know, I think it's very meaningful that Bibi came out and said, you know, we don't need U.S. aid. And that was to preserve some semblance of a relationship with us, but also reading the tea leaves that Trump is pissed. He is really angry that the pervasive narrative, and I would say the truth, certainly based on what read in Regime Change about the Situation Room meeting where Bibi pitched him on the war in Iran on, I think it was February 11th, and what has happened since, has soured Trump on Israel and how Bibi runs his country and his prime ministership. You know, Trump doesn't like people who try to outfox him when he notices that it's happening. A lot of times they're he is onto all of Bibi's maneuvers and the way that he's manipulating the future of U.S. involvement in the Middle East for what he sees as only being Israel's gain. And the fact that whenever there's a ceasefire or maybe a chance at diplomacy, and we could debate whether that's actually feasible, that we would get a diplomatic solution, that Bibi comes in and is like, well, I'm just going to keep bombing Beirut, for instance. And Bibi is like, well, I'm just going to keep bombing Beirut, then, of course, Iran says, well, if Israel is doing this, then all the terms are off and you're at where we are now, where people are having to make the argument like Jesse Waters yesterday on The Five tried to market an environmental regulation fee as different from a toll and saying, well, maybe we just have to give that to Iran, let them save face. So they're basically accepting the fact that Iran is going to be tolling the Strait of Hormuz in perpetuity and that they have full control over that enormously powerful waterway. So I think it's going to be very tense with Trump and Bibi. He's probably going to be cursing, which he has been as of late when they have had phone calls. I just hope that we don't have something horrible like what happened between Trump and Zelensky with that Oval Office meeting the first time, you know, where he wasn't dressed appropriately and wouldn't take their shit at the level that Trump and Vance wanted and so got publicly berated like that. Yeah, I still have PTSD from that meeting. I think Trump correctly feels like he was played and it's backfiring on him. And Maggie Haberman was saying when she was on her tour with Jonathan Swan about their book that basically Bibi laid out this plan in the Situation Room and Trump bought it. And the people who actually have domain expertise, the national security advisors and just to give credit where it's due, Vance, I forget if it was the head of the CIA, but somebody, they brought in someone who actually has domain expertise and who described Bibi's plan as farcical around regime change. Yeah, John Ratcliffe. Yeah, thank you, John Ratcliffe. And Rubio said it too. Said this is just not, this is just not realistic, but Trump bought into it. So I think Trump has, Trump basically bought the intelligence and the advocacy of a foreign leader over his own security apparatus and it has really hurt him. This is the quagmire that keeps on giving and also just puts on full display the incompetence around our decision-making at the highest levels and the fact that Trump is under the, kind of under the illusion that he's negotiating against himself, that he gets to decide what the IRGC wants and he's frustrated that they aren't listening and doing what he wants. Also, it's just hard to imagine that Trump's I mean, the funeral is interesting because it's not about the passing of Graham. That's the story here. Quite frankly, it's about the seating chart at his funeral and funerals are foreign policy venues now. And this, this ridiculous statement, if I weren't president, Israel wouldn't exist. I think there have been few things that have been worse for Israel than Trump and Netanyahu. I think the majority of Israel I mean, keep in mind, I think Netanyahu is running and sort of similar depressed levels of popularity in Israel. But it just, what's happened here falls into this trope that Israel is not good for America, that you have a guy here who's fighting for his political life by going on a war footing that is not good for the region, not good for America, and also just not good for Israel. And it's just, and I've said this for a while, maybe with the exception, maybe for reasons Putin shouldn't be included, because we don't know who would replace him, but there are few things that would be more accretive or beneficial to the world right now than if two of those attendees, Trump and Netanyahu, moved on. I mean, they've just caused, you would argue, so much damage in terms of global instability. And you have one basically appears to have nudged the other into what will largely be seen as the first ballot hall of fame, a mistake of this administration, not only the decision itself, but more so how it was executed without thinking through. I was reading about Carter, when the hostages were taken in Iran during the revolution, and Carter was contemplating an actual ground invasion or a military assault, not just a rescue operation. And Brzezinski, I forget his first name, but Mika Brzezinski's father, who was national security advisor, basically back then, this is like 1979, said, just keep in mind, if you go in, and he was saying, you can't go in, they'll seize control of the Strait of Hormuz. So this wasn't like a new creative idea. And when we interviewed Secretary Clinton, she said that that was always their fear, was around the Strait of Hormuz. So Trump meeting with Bibi, a funeral is the perfect low-stakes venue for that. No communique staff, no expectations. There's plausible, there's plausible deniability, if nothing comes of it. And not a follow-up statement is usually the answer. Optic's not negotiation here. And Zelensky showing up is kind of the, I think, the biggest message here. And that is, Ukraine still needs to be seen next to Trump right now, whatever the actual state of the relationship is, that he's still, and he's, I think he's very savvy. He still recognizes that he needs Trump. I would add to that, though, that he is showing up for Lindsey Graham. Who was an incredible friend to Ukraine. And there are very few issues that Lindsey Graham actually had backbone about when it came to Trump. And one of them was Ukraine. And he visited constantly. He was always in touch with Zelensky and lobbying the government as hard as possible to give Ukrainians everything that they needed to execute that war. He has always been so clear-headed about who Putin is, you know, who our enemies are. And I think he's there, obviously, to continue the U.S.-Ukrainian relationship, but really to honor Lindsey Graham and the help that he afforded the Ukrainian people. I think that's a valid point. Tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college. That's why she shops at BJ's Wholesale Club, saving up to 25% off grocery store prices. Beef jerky, microwave meals, laundry pods, even they can't screw up. Have you met my kid? And with BJ's gas, she gets there for less. They call me the road warrior. This is your home, road warrior mom. Home of the Save. Open soon. Eblis, labrakizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about Eblis and visit eblis.com or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. Is your home ready? Don't worry. Wayfair. Every style. Every home. In other news, Senator Rand Paul has released over 1,100 pages of Dr. Anthony Fauci's personal diary entries as part of his COVID origins investigation. Ahead of Fauci's subpoenaed testimony before the Senate Homeland Security Committee tomorrow, the diary largely echoes past disclosures reflecting Fauci wrestling with the real scientific uncertainty in the pandemic, but also paints a picture of Fauci as a bit self-absorbed, mentioning encounters with celebrities like Barbra Streisand and Julia Roberts. Jess, did we learn anything that contradicts what Fauci has previously said in public? Do we know anything new about what started COVID? Not necessarily about what started COVID. I mean, the crux of the fight is, you know, they were telling us that it was a pangolin, you know, let loose in a wet market and it was obviously the lab where gain-of-function research was ongoing, which the U.S. puts money into and all of the West was putting money into. That's a normal procedure. So the right is seizing upon that because they feel like this is one of those core hoaxes, right, and bad bill of goods that we were sold by, the lefties in government, though Anthony Fauci served for, what, over five decades, Republican and Democratic presidents, and has this incredible career. The diary entries are really cringey. I don't know if you've spent much time with them. I am not a Dear Diary person, especially like Dear Diary, I'm the most famous person, everybody's obsessed with me type of person, but it's a bad look, I think, for someone that's a public health official and, I guess, how it works with subpoenas, even though it was his private diary because it contained work product, that they were able to get their hands on it. There is acknowledgement about the fact that the disease is being spread even when people are vaccinated. That was certainly how it was sold at first, that if you got vaccinated, you weren't going to get COVID and ended up that it just made it a lot easier for you to manage having COVID, especially if you are older, if you've had the vaccine. But that's one of the things that the right is all hot and bothered about and it's going to be very ugly at the committee hearing. COVID is one of the big challenges or litmus tests, I think, for Democrats, especially, you know, from big blue cities and blue states, how they feel about the lockdowns in retrospect, especially vis-a-vis kids who the evidence suggested from very early on were not getting the disease and were not getting and were certainly recovering quite quickly from it. And we kept kids out of school and they really needed to be in school. They needed that for technical learning, you know, falling behind in reading and in math, but also for the social-emotional aspect. And when you, when you deal, you have kids in their teens, you teach kids who have been affected by lockdown and you see it in all of them, the way that they talk about that period in their lives, whether they missed out on, you know, their junior or senior years, what their experience was having to do remote learning in a worst-case scenario. I remember the New York Times did a big piece on how school systems who were giving out tablets were finding in kids' search history how much they were looking at ways to self-harm and how deeply depressed and isolated they felt. And I think that that's something that for those who are, who are opposed or are still on the edge, I guess, of being okay with the Democratic Party or whoever it is that is the representative, you know, on their ballot, that they do want to hear from them that we did some things wrong and we were trying our best, right? I don't think anyone was ill-intentioned about it or like making a shit ton of money off of it, but that, you know, real mistakes were made, especially when it comes to young people, you know, businesses that couldn't reopen that ended up going bankrupt. And then also, I think it's a tremendous amount of fraud, right, that occurred with the COVID funds. And I think that Fauci is going to get all of that spewed at him. Some of it fairly, some of it unfairly, but it's worth our attention. Yeah, there really hasn't been, I mean, obviously World War II kind of defined our society for the next 50 years. And it feels like COVID is right up there in terms of, Such a massive EpiPen or paddles to the core. purpose of our society. And it's interesting, there really hasn't been a book kind of outlining. I think we still underestimate the impact, the scarring, and the lasting structural changes it's had on our society. And everything you said absolutely was correct, that we overestimated the risk to young people. I would argue a lot of teachers' unions use kids as drug mules, even though the workforce in our schools is one of the least vulnerable because it was primarily made up of young women. We had enormous learning loss. They think that approximately roughly half a school year in math and reading was basically kind of structurally a setback that hasn't recovered yet. And as almost everything in our nation, it was outsourced mostly to low-income and minority kids the hardest. And that gap has not closed. I would love to see the data, but I think people just substantially increased the amount of time they spent indoors and in front of a screen. And unfortunately, a lot of young men and most of us just have not been able to do that. It's not gone back. And then inflation and the wealth gap, stimulus plus supply shocks set off inflation that we really haven't recovered from. And then mental health, especially among young men and teen girls. The isolation accelerated. The youth mental health crisis that was already well underway. Anxiety, depression, social disconnection, they all spiked. And they haven't, again, that delta. It's not closed. With Fauci, I mean, let's be clear. I've never understood the venom towards Fauci. And I think the CDC made two critical errors, both around communications, one telling people that masks don't help. Don't wear a mask. Remember that? And then everybody must wear masks. Say, well, which is it, boss? And then they claim the reason they said that was because they were worried that there would be a run on masks and health care. Professionals wouldn't be able to get them. It's like, OK, so you were lying to the general public. What are you lying about now? And then what you just mentioned, this notion that the vaccine would prevent you from getting COVID. The equally powerful message would be, yeah, you can still get it, but you're not going to die from it. And I believe you are 90 percent less likely to die. And there's all these just heartbreaking stories of people not getting the vaccine and then being told to call your loved one. You're not going to make it. And them saying, please give me the vaccine and having to be told, sorry, boss, it doesn't work that way. But eleven hundred, you know, look, eleven hundred pages in the headline is a scientist wrestled with the uncertainty during a once in a century pandemic who also like loves his 15 seconds of fame and name name checks Barbara Streisand and Julia Roberts. I don't think it's a scandal. I think it's an 80 year old who clearly is a bit of an narcissist. And my sense is when I when I saw the summary of this, there's nothing here we didn't already know that. I remember him walking out with the nurse who had gotten Ebola and making sure it was a photo opportunity with him walking her out. And I think this guy's focused way too much on Fauci and not the CDC. I think the most interesting thing here is about the timing of the release, because when you release it the day before the hearings, you're trying to connote that it's some sort of bombshell. And the. It's a strategy to sort of preload the narrative so the hearing plays as confirmation, not actual discovery. And, you know, the self-absorption, OK, that's a personality flaw, not evidence about how COVID started. What I'm scared of is that you're going to have a bunch of conspiracy theorists and people playing into the red meat at the far right that, you know, Fauci should be prosecuted, which I think is fucking insane. And that they'll let the tone of the diary substitute for actual fucking data regarding the origins of this pandemic and how we prepare for it, you know, how we're better prepared for it again. But. I also feel like it was the great accelerant of income inequality and laid bare just how ugly income inequality was that there was a group of Americans. Well, let me back up. I've said and I mean, I'm self-conscious saying this out loud because I'm older, because I have some money, because I have relationships, because I had a nice place to shelter in place. COVID was arguably the best two years of my life because I was molesting the earth, traveling, meeting with clients, not seeing my kids a lot, working my ass off. And all of a sudden I was forced to stay at home and not travel and spend a bunch of time with my kids. It was just and watch a lot of Netflix and the toll it took. And it was on my youngest son, who I did. I just never appreciated how much young kids need to be socialized around other people. But there was an enormous, enormous segment of America who had to load up their igloo cooler with Diet Cokes and diabetes medication and head out as an Uber driver and subject themselves to risk because they couldn't afford to stay at home. I mean, and I can't even imagine what a single mother had to put up with. Uh, with a kid at home who was doing quote unquote, by the way, remote learning for young kids was the most ridiculous fucking thing I'd ever experienced. They can't do that. Kids on my kid was my youngest was nine. And I remember going into his room and watching him on an iPad, try to learn. And it was like, okay, this is, this is almost doing more damage than it is good. It was just absolutely ridiculous. There was a piece in the Atlantic that was very hard hitting. Um, about how these essential workers don't want to be essential. And that the idea that you're going to come out like on your balcony and, you know, bang your pots and pans as a thank you doesn't fix the problem, which is that they have to be working a checkout line or driving cars or, you know, driving ambulances or mobile morgues or whatever is going on that they didn't ask for this to your point about income inequality. And I'll just throw in, not that I'm going to I want some enormous pity party for me because I had enough money during COVID, but my dad was dying. He was in an ICU, which was the scariest place that you could be, uh, when COVID was peak and no one knew what to do about it pre-vaccine. So did two and a half months in an ICU and then was moved to a nursing home for his recovery where everybody was dying. And he was one of the first patients in New York who was able to get the vaccine, thank God, because he was in there. But I woke up in New York and I was like, oh my God, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. And I woke up every day, just petrified that he was going to die because of this thing that it wasn't going to be the cancer that was going to kill him. It was going to be COVID. And I find it really hard to have thoughtful conversations with people who say things like arrest Fauci, Fauci is a traitor, et cetera, with my experience, actually taking care of someone who was on the front lines of vulnerability, to this disease, right? Like they would have, COVID would have killed my dad in 10 minutes. There wouldn't, vaccine or not, probably with how weakened he was from chemo and the disease. And I want to be balanced about it. And I especially want to stand up for our kids because God knows how angry I would have been as a mom, if I had had children in a school age that were being forced into remote learning, or God forbid, you're too poor. You don't have access to the internet, right? You don't have access to the internet. The stories of kids that are working at Taco Bells and McDonald's is because we haven't been able to get broadband to the entire country, which is a national embarrassment. But I do struggle with it because we were all scared out of our minds. And for very good reason, millions of people died of this disease. It's estimated about 3 million lives were saved because of the vaccine and how good it was in making COVID more tolerable for folks, especially if you're older. But I have to say, I don't know if I'm getting there on the arrest Fauci front. When you think back to how scared everybody, no matter your politics, was of this deadly disease and something that we knew nothing about. You know, it happens once every 100 years. How could you expect him to have all of the answers? Is the public servant too into getting his just desserts and is thrilled by the idea that there are people wearing t-shirts with his face on it? Absolutely. Could they have been more straight shooters about things like masking and what the vaccine was going to do for you based on his journal entries? Yeah, they could have been better at it. But this disease, it killed. And I think the people who worked in, you know, these hospitals, worked in the NIH, the CDC, their goal was to keep as many Americans alive as possible. And that is one of the more just reasons for you to get up and go to work that I know of. Yeah, the question I would have to anybody is, all right, who got it right? Like who? Well, they would say like Sweden, right? And there's evidence, the whole herd thing, the whole herd mentality thing that just let it run wild didn't work either. And then people say, well, what about Florida? And if you actually look at the data now, Florida had about the same mortality levels. Nobody got this right. Everybody thought China got it right because they were especially hard and they did lockdowns and they had concerts and then they got hit hard. And so I'm going to take advantage of the hall pass to talk about COVID horror stories. I pulled Prof G off of Spotify Spotify during COVID. And the reason why, you know, I thought Joe Rogan did enormous damage to the health of America by having one day Sanjay Gupta on, thinking he was both-siding the issue, and then having a total fucking quack who had had his medical license revoked, talking about how an mRNA vaccine was altering your DNA. And I have or had a 52-year-old cousin, big strapping, Andrew Levine, big strapping, handsome guy, thin, not vulnerable, who he and his girlfriend bought into this anti-vaccine bullshit, conspiracy theory. And he, just a series of like terrible instances, poor health care. Apparently got pneumonia at the same time he got COVID, was in the hospitalized, recovering, was on a ventilator, but getting better, took him off the ventilator, crashed and died. And just along the lines of all the second order effects here, left his, obviously left behind, survived his girlfriend and a little boy. And then six months later, his girlfriend killed herself. I don't believe this total anti-vaccine, non-science, conspiracy theory, politicization of the vaccine. I'm not questioning a podcaster's right to discuss this issue. Now, when you're talking about something like this, you have to have some fidelity to people smarter than you actually looking at the data around the potential death, disease, and disability that you could unwittingly, I don't think Joe Rogan is a bad person, that you could unwittingly levy because you haven't read the actual fucking science. If he had been a total fucking nut, it wouldn't have been as bad as him both siding the issue because the day after you saw a credible doctor, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, you were presented with this quack. And I think his massive footprint believed, well, it's sort of a coin flip. You know, there's good arguments on both sides. There weren't. Anytime they talk about the vaccine causing death or we're waiting for a shoe to drop because there's very few free to trace it down and they've had a difficult time finding any vaccine-related mortality when it's normalized for other factors. So this was, there's still going to be, I think, we're waiting for the definitive book on how this has structurally shifted our society and who really acted irresponsibly here. And it wasn't an 80-year-old head of the CDC excited about Julia Roberts name checking. That's not, that's not who the problem was here. This is up there with, you know, don't take Tylenol if you're pregnant and like, don't get your measles and your mumps shots. It's a bunch of BS. You can make decisions about, you know, vaccine schedules for your kids, but every doctor worth their salt was advising people to get the vaccine to protect them. And I was pregnant at the time I got vaccinated when I was 24 weeks pregnant, which felt a little scary. But my OB was adamant that this is the way to protect my unborn child. And then I breastfed for six weeks after Cleo was born to make sure that she continued to get the good effects from the vaccine. So I'm with you on this. I, you know, the journal is cringey and it is embarrassing. I think it is always good for people to be reflective of what they could do better. We all aspire to be people that learn and grow. From our mistakes. But people in looking at this in the rearview mirror, you know, six years later, not, you know, taking account of how insanely scary this period of time was and trying to make it out like these folks were being malicious. I think it's just absurd. Let's leave it there, Jess. Let's leave it at that. Every style and budget. The most memorable gifts aren't found, they're made. Zazzle is a custom marketplace where you pick any product, a mug, a card, a tote, a phone case, and make it personal. That's Zazzle.com. Make it Z-amazing.