Michigan Midterm Drama, Crypto Heist, and Guest Hillary Clinton

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Live from the Beacon Theater in New York City's Upper West Side, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Well done. Nice. That was good. We're in Toronto tomorrow. I want to hear it a little bit louder because the Canadians fucking rock. Let's go. Very loud. Okay. Before we start, I want to send a big thank you to our title sponsor, Beehive, the platform for building an audience and a business around your point of view. From newsletters and websites to podcasts and communities, Beehive brings content all together in one place. Thanks also to our official sponsors, Tanium and Odoo. Thank you so much for sponsoring this. We are Tanium. We're taping this show for audio and YouTube distribution because kids love YouTube. So you'll be able to hear it or watch it on Tuesday, November 3rd, Election Day, which is tomorrow, everybody. Which is probably why we're going to be in Canada in case it goes bad. Okay. As we tour the country this week, we'll be sending out three special editions of our new newsletter filled with photos and behind-the-scenes content. Go to pivotshow.com to sign up. We're going to start on a. high note by someone I've been cheating on Scott with in a podcast point of view to talk about the election that's coming up. We're trying to find out who would be really great to do this. And so our special guest tonight is co-host of High Stakes, my other podcast. She's also a Grammy-winning former Secretary of State and a Scorpio. Please welcome Hillary Clinton. Hey. Looking good with those glasses. Yeah, I picked them up from somebody. Wow. Yeah, what do you think? They look good on you. Yeah, well, before you were born, I used to wear glasses like this. And it brings back a lot of memories. Good. Well, it works for you, I got to say. Don't you think, Scott? Yeah. Scott's looking at us like, oh, shit, this is too bad. We're also going to be announcing our 2028 presidential bid again because, you know. So let's get to it. We're going to start asking questions about stuff. We've been doing a lot of this online. We've done High Stakes, which is our new podcast. And one of the things that was great, I was at dinner where Hillary was at, and she was laying down so many truth bombs, and they were so smart. I was like, I wonder if this woman was like valedictorian of something. And I wanted to create a podcast that was the world's greatest civics lesson. And she has been everywhere. And so we're going to ask her some questions, obviously, about the election. So let's start. Tallarico, El-Sayed, AOC, Newsom, Klobuchar, you've met all of them. Who in that group is the real Democrat? Who's the real deal for the next 10 years? And who's peaking too early? Oh, my gosh. We have an election tomorrow, which is called the midterms. Right. Remember that? Yes. I thought I taught you about that. We'll put that at the end. Yeah. And so we're leaping ahead beyond even that election. We have no idea. We have no idea. I think, you know, having run for president, you don't know until people actually get on the field and they start competing. Who's going to rise? Who's going to fall? Who's going to come back? I mean, it's an actually exciting prospect for me to believe that we're going to have a dozen really good Democrats running to compete, starting, you know, probably after the first of the year. Which is a good thing for the Democratic Party to have that. It's a good thing. It's a very good thing. And, you know, we're going to have a bunch of governors. We're going to have people with a lot of experience. They're going to be out there, as we say, testing the waters. I think it's going to be not just good for the Democrats. I think it's going to be good for the Democratic Party. I think it's going to be good for the country because we haven't really had politics. We've had a cult in charge of our country over the last years. And I think we need to get back to having like real debates where people are exchanging views and audiences like this here at the theater get to make up their own minds. So I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. So what are we going to wake up to on November 4th? Yeah, I think we're going to wake up to a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate. And why? Why? Give your case. Do your do a Hillary Clinton case. First of all, I think that the issues that people are responding to are real to them. They are living them. They are seeing the results. So when we started talking about the affordability issue, that was something that most Americans, could say, hey, you know what? I can relate to that. My health care costs are going up. Why is that happening? Well, maybe because this administration and this Congress have cut back on health care subsidies for the Affordable Care Act. Oh, my gosh, my gas prices. If I use diesel, my diesel prices, they're all going up. Why is that? Well, most dramatically and recently because of the war in Iran, or maybe also because of tariffs which get passed on. They are not some kind of deus ex machina. That can be put out there with no consequences for consumers. So you go down the list and all of the efforts to distract attention, to make up other reasons why things were hard, to try to claim, as we keep hearing from the president, that, you know, we're living in a great time and people are saying it's not so great for me. It's not so great for my kids. Well, it is good for the Trump family. It's very, very good for the Trump family. And one of the smartest moves that was made by the Trump family was to make sure that they had the right to vote. And one of the smartest moves that was made in this campaign was to link affordability and corruption. And I want to thank not just Democrats, but you go back and look at the election in Hungary. And this is a bit of an aside. But think about what happened in Hungary. Orban had been in power for, what, 10 years. And the opposition had tried to defeat him before. They were unsuccessful. He'd been corrupt for years. There were problems in the country. But finally, Peter Magyar and his team, they were able to win. And his party made the linkage. Part of the reasons why you're having trouble is because they're getting rich. They're taking advantage of being in government to make themselves and their families rich. And it's costing you money. And now I think you're finding in polls and research and focus groups, when voters are asked, what do you think about corruption? They say, it's costing me money. Somebody else is making a lot of money. And I can hardly make my rent. I can hardly pay to fill up my gas tank. Right. So assuming, let's count our chickens and assume we take the House and the Senate, and it's November the 4th, I would argue it's a lease, not a mortgage, dating, not a relationship. I think that it'll be a function of not them loving Democrats, but hating us less. What do you think the Democratic Party needs to do or Democratic leadership? What are two or three things you think they need to do immediately such that we can turn this into something enduring going into 28 instead of just, them flipping back in 24 months? You're absolutely right, Scott. If the Democrats don't go in with an agenda and have the discipline to enact that agenda, then they're going to lose the kind of support that they're going to gain in this election. Number one, they ought to look at the affordability agenda. What's going to be in that? I think there are several things, one of which is health care costs. But there also can be even more fast tracking of, you know, housing. starts taking a hard look at how we can, you know, shift the burden on fossil fuel costs from consumers to the oil and gas companies, which have recorded record profits. So I think that there's a lot of good work being done right now to put together an affordability package. Secondly, an anti-corruption package. You know, people have to feel that this issue of corruption is going to be front and center because it has been costing money. People have been benefiting at the expense of, you know, everyday Americans, consumers, people who get up every day and, you know, try to, you know, make a living. And so what's that going to look like? Well, I think that has to be linked with closing loopholes. I thought the emoluments clause in the Constitution meant something. I thought it meant that you could not be the president of the United States and report a $1.2 billion, you know, income from making deals through crypto and other things while you were in the Oval Office. I'm amazed that we can't enforce the Constitution. And so we need legislation to close these loopholes to make it very clear. And finally, they're going to have to do some investigations to get to the bottom. And, you know, when Cara and I were on a couple of programs earlier today, The View and CNN with Anderson Cooper, you know, she was making the point, we still don't even know the damage that Elon Musk did through Doge. We don't know what data was illegally taken, your Social Security data, your Medicare data, whatever data, tax data. Where is it? What's it being used for? We need to get to the bottom of this, not for the sake of investigating just to kind of hold hearings and look like we were, you know, pointing fingers and scoring points, but let's find out what damage has been done so we can begin to repair it. So let's get to the simple test. There's a lot of races that are, you had been worried in a couple of our things because you're always like, Texas, we'll see, even though Tallarico is clearly popular, right? And Ken Paxton is pretty loathsome as a candidate. But there's a couple of races. One, obviously, the Michigan Senate race, which is taking up a lot of time. And Scott has a point of view on this, too. Democrat Haley Stevens, who lost the Michigan Senate primary to Abdul El-Sayed, flipped and endorsed Republican Mike Rogers over the weekend. I know, I know, I know, I know. So yeah, that's, I was gonna say, is she a traitor? Is just saying out loud with some moderates really think about where the party's going? Do you think it helps or hurts? I'll say, Scott does have a point of view on this. So first, why don't you go first? And then we're interviewing me. Yeah, I'm going to you. You had a point of view. Let's see what the professor thinks. I have a lot of disagreements with El-Sayed. But at the end of the day, we get to have a discussion with El-Sayed. Whereas Rogers, you don't get to have a discussion because he's an election denier. So we don't even have a democracy. I would vote for another Democrat. But given the situation, I'm a supporter of El-Sayed because at least we get to have these important discussions. Yeah, yeah. And you think it's a distraction. Look, I'm with Scott on this. I mean, the most important objective, has to be to rein in Trump and to defeat as many Republicans as possible in this election tomorrow. And El-Sayed won the primary. I don't know what's going through the congresswoman's, you know, head about her feelings or her opinions, whatever it might be. But it is a sideshow because it has nothing to do with what's really at stake in the election. I'm sorry that, you know, people's feelings get hurt. I've won elections. And I've lost elections. And I have also lost elections where I got more votes than the person that allegedly won. So, you know, I think I know a lot about this. And my attitude is we need to win these elections. And I am pulling for all of our Democratic nominees. So is there any election you're most worried about? I suppose Texas is the one that you see. You're always like, you never know with Texas. Look, I think I think Tallarico is a fabulous candidate. And I love. I also think Gina Hinojosa is a fabulous candidate, the woman running for the governor of Texas. They are polling really well. They have a lot of energy. They are great, both in so-called real life and online. They communicate effectively. Texas is just huge. And there is so much infrastructure that the Republicans have built over so many years that they are. I'm telling you, as we are meeting here tonight, working overtime to turn out every Republican voter and their sister and their brother and their cousins. And, you know, they're going to do everything they can to flood the zone tomorrow, as well as what they have, you know, done up till now. I I just have a really hopeful, good feeling that, you know, Tallarico is going to pull it off because I'm I think that there are there are enough Republicans and independents in Texas who will not be able to vote for Paxton, who is the poster child of corruption in Texas. And so I think that we've got a very good chance to win in Texas, to win in Texas. So you remember when all the CEOs lined up to kiss Trump's ring? That was yesterday. Mostly Texios, the donations, the investment pledges, the ballroom donations from Apple and NVIDIA. A couple of things. If Democrats win the House, how far should they go with investigations and subpoenas of these people? And by the way, Trump said he preemptively pardoned Elon and also close aides. Now, is that something you think is going to happen? And how do you look at tech CEOs right now? Well, I'm disappointed in a lot of them. You know, so much more both of you do about them than I do. But I'm disappointed in a lot of them. I'm disappointed in a lot of them. But they made their bets on Trump and they have all different rationalizations. But most of them wanted contracts. Most of them wanted some kind of monetary reward for supporting him. So, you know, they've contributed and they've, you know, kept their, you know, their mouths shut and haven't criticized him. I think that will begin to change if we win the Congress, because all of a sudden, you know, we get back closer to, you know, politics where, guess what? You've got to find common ground. You have to, you know, understand the other's point of view. When it comes to what Trump said today, which was he was thinking about pardoning Musk and pardoning other people, he may well do that. But that doesn't mean they can't be called and forced to testify. Because just because they're pardoned for something unclear what does not remove the obligation. To respond to a subpoena in the Congress. And in fact, some legal experts argue that if you're pardoned, then you have no protection. You cannot take the Fifth Amendment because you have no jeopardy. So let him pardon Elon and then let's call him in and figure out what he has to say. A few more things. I'll get, we'll do the next question. A New York Times analysis of a decade of Trump's speeches finds he's getting cruder, more extreme, and harder to follow. I think they're talking about dementia, but they weren't quite going to say it. Let me bring up something you said in 2016, because you're like Cassandra, you were right about quite a few things. A man, a man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with the nuclear codes. Democrats got destroyed over Biden's age. And why, why isn't Trump paying the same price? Because he, we had talked about that you were dying. Oh, I was, I died many times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, you are looking at a reincarnation. You're looking good. I don't know all the reasons why he has been consistently held to an easier standard than anybody else in politics. I mean, his word salads are legendary. And if you try to follow, it's really complicated and difficult to make. Makes sense. But it hasn't until recently been covered, particularly as indicative of his inability to really think clearly about very important issues. So I can't explain that. But I think we're catching up to it. It bothers me a lot that he goes in and out of what I consider to be coherence. I don't know whether he's distracted. I don't know if it's medical. I, I'm not going to speculate on that. But, you know, when you're making, like, he, he's about, I believe, to make another decision as to whether or not to renew active attacks on Iran. The consequences of that are so serious, and they need to be thought through carefully. And I don't think we have a commander in chief who is either interested in or willing, to have that level of careful deliberation before making a decision. And so this is not just that he stands up there and he goes on and on and makes, you know, lots of, non-sequitur comments about all kinds of things. This is what happens inside the situation room. And I am worried that post this election, if we do get back both the House and the Senate, it's going to even further short circuit his thinking. It's all going to be here's what I believe. Here's my, you know, impulsive take on this situation. You're going to do what I tell you to do. And I worry about that. But I hope that maybe with Congress and Democratic hands and the threat of investigations, you know, the people around him will be able to rein him in. Oh, yeah. That's Stephen Miller's a real rainer in our. Well, he is obviously one of the main provocateurs. But there are other people who I hope will exercise some restraint. Yeah, that Pete Hegseth? That's going to go. I'm just aware. I think, you know, look, at this point, I'm rooting for Kristi Noem. I mean, really? Well, you'll notice that he only gets rid of women. Yeah, I did. So that's another thing. But they're also incompetent. So I don't know how I feel about that. But even, you know, I think, you know, outgoing Congressman Massey has already introduced articles of impeachment against Hegseth. And it couldn't happen soon enough because he is really a danger to our country. Yeah. Scott, last question. We talk a lot about young men and young people. And a big belief of mine is that your success is a function of your willingness to mourn and move on. What can you tell or say to young people or anybody else who faces disappointment around how you get back on your feet? What gives you strength? How do you, how do you repair? How do you mourn and move on? What did you do? Well, I don't know you. I don't know you, but I sort of know you. And my sense is you're doing just fine. And honestly, I know a lot of people that hit a fraction of that disappointment and just get stuck for the rest of their lives. What advice do you have for people that face that type of disappointment? Well, there's so many different kinds of disappointment in life. Everybody's faced disappointment. Yeah. And, you know, I feel very much grateful to my parents because my mother had a really miserable life and was literally on her own by the age of 13. But she found it in herself to keep going. And part of what she really taught me by example and by advising was that everybody gets knocked down in life. You know, it's not always on a big stage where everybody can see you get knocked down. It's often in the most private, personal, difficult moments of your life when it happens to you, whether it's death, relationships, you know, work disappointment, whatever it might be. And, you know, what she said to me over and over again, and I took it really seriously because I saw and understood how she'd been treated, how she'd been, you know, basically given up on her life. She said, you know, she'd been completely given up by her mother and father, abandoned, how she'd been mistreated by her grandmother, kicked out of the house when she was 13, how she'd gone to work in somebody else's house, taking care of their kids, how she had hoped that her mother would love her at some point. And her mother asked her to come back to Chicago because she'd been sent to California when she was like eight years old. And she came back thinking she could maybe have a relationship. And her mother was, you know, basically just, you know, she just wanted her to work for her. I mean, just disappointment and abandonment and despair. But she found it in herself to get back up every day and to keep going. And that's really what she conveyed to me. It was, look, everybody gets knocked down. Everybody gets disappointed in life, in love, in work, whatever it might be. And you've got to make a decision every single day. Are you going to lie down there and give up on yourself? And let. Are you going to let people walk all over you? Or are you going to get up and, you know, start a new day and make a new path for yourself? It's a great piece of advice. That's how I was raised. And that's how I've tried to live. Yes. You're a game gal, as my grandmother would say. We really appreciate it. I went out and got that present you asked me to get for Donald Trump. He's been talking about men's asses a lot. I heard that. It's very strange. But I think I found it interesting. I found the perfect present for January when he leaves office because it's super cold. Okay. So if you could give this to him. It says, "So gay for you." Well, you know, you and I had a conversation about this earlier. Yeah. You think one thing, I think something else. Yeah. But I will certainly try to deliver it. Okay. Yeah. 2028. Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State. Anyway, thanks again to Secretary Clinton. And please listen to High Stakes. It's really good. She just, she's amazing. She's like zealot. She's been everywhere and has great advice like that. I thought that was really lovely. Okay. We need to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll get to some news. 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Binance says it's restored roughly 95% of the assets stolen in last week's $6.3 billion hack, the biggest crypto heist in history. The FBI has confirmed that North Korea was behind the attack. The hack fueled a crypto sell-off that combined with the tech stock plunge, had some social media calling it Bloody Friday. Binance customers pulled $3.64 billion from exchanges over the weekend when withdrawals were unfrozen. Crypto has gone mainstream. Trump has really unleashed that in recent years, especially with his backing. How much of a setback? Where are we with that? And I think tech stocks. So what's actually interesting about it—so first off, just on a macro level, theft is hands down the best way to grow an economy. We did it in the 19th century. We went up and down. We stole— we actually kidnapped artisans. We copied manufacturing technology and we put factories all along the Eastern seaboard. We basically engaged in massive IP theft of European manufacturing. We scaled a better industrial revolution. The Chinese core competence in China is IP theft. They basically will steal. People think spy versus spy or espionage is some handsome guy killing a bad person in a bomb lair in some hill in New Zealand. It's not. Probably about 89% espionage is a very nondescript assistant uploading thumb drives from Monsanto and finding the dyes and the colors to usually China in which they sell back the products for 40 to 60 cents on the dollar. The scale of this theft, it's the scale that's interesting because as it relates to Binance, they've only lost about 2% of their asset under management. So, that big a deal for Binance. Now, having said that, $6 billion on a $30 billion economy means they grew their economy this week by 20%. Imagine that the equivalent theft, if we were able to pull off that type of IP theft in the United States, that means we would be able in 48 hours to capture about $6 trillion. They essentially, relative to their government, all government expenses for a year with this hack. So, the scale of it is so extraordinary because North Korea is quite frankly, just such a rogue, a failed nation state that this type, every kid is going to be taught hacking and AI. That is now their core competence. The people who figured this out in North Korea grew their economy 20% this year. And the scale on the other end about just how successful our economy is, is that a company can lose $6 billion and the next day it only loses 2% of its assets. What about the tech sell-off? Because it's really starting, I know we talk about this idea that before the big crash in 2000, everything, everyone thought it was going to crash for a couple of years. And then there was up, up, up, and then not up. But it took a while. How do you look right now? Because you see these cracks, whether it's data distribution, Elon just said that Grok's too expensive, you think. And at the same time, he said, we're all going to have abundance, whatever. But what, how do you look at where tech stocks are? Because as we've talked about, it's, it's everything in this economy right now. It's nothing else matters, but tech stocks. Well, I mean, I'm going to about to engage in a word salad, but let me skip to the end. I don't know. Just don't have an, just don't have an utterance like, I, like that. I'll make, I'll make the bold case. AI is transformative. The railroads are transformative. Right. The internet was transformative. All of those involved bankruptcies along the way. What I'm fairly certain of, I don't know what's going to happen to these stocks. I'm, I know at some point they'll correct. I don't know how severe the V will be. What might be happening right now is there's a bit of a soft landing. These stocks are down, right? And that might be a good thing as opposed to a crash that scares people. What's most interesting is among the big tech firms, the firm that has outperformed every other of the mag seven this year is the one that has purposefully stayed out of the AI arms race. Apple has vastly outperformed all of the other mag seven because it has refused to engage in this multi-trillion dollar arms race. They've just said, you guys go play in traffic and we'll see how it settles out the same way they avoided the search wars. So what could go right? Can I just note, Apple just announced earnings right before our taping. The first, uh, since, uh, CEO John Ternes took over from Tim Cook, revenue rose 12% from a year earlier. Slightly ahead of expectations. Gains were driven by those price hikes a few months ago, plus demand for the new iPhone eight, uh, 18 pro lineup. iPad sales were down as well as sales in China coming, uh, in below estimates. The iPhone duo, the Apple's new foldable phone wasn't on sale during the quarter. So we'll have to wait to see its impact. So go keep going with Apple. Well, so Apple's flat, uh, a beat on the top and bottom line, 12%. But anytime we've had more than 2% of GDP allocated towards the technology in this short a period, there's a fairly severe crash along the way, which we have not registered yet. At the same time to make the bull case, I was like, I'm, I started, I struggled with anger and oppression. I'm a glass half empty kind of guy. And so I constantly have to ask myself because one of my biggest flaws as an investor is I'm constantly thinking everything's going to get cheaper and it's going to crash. Um, and if you look every day, if you look at the markets, the optimists have kicked the crap out of the pessimists. If you were to be honest about the markets, the way you would calibrate it or describe it is that every day it gets a little bit better and you'd be stupid not to keep your money in the market and be diversified. The bull case is the following. If you look at the price to earnings ratio of an alphabet right now, or an NVIDIA, they're trading at a lower PE ratio than the average S&P company. And would you rather have YouTube and search and cloud and the most sophisticated chips in history growing 40% a year, growing its profits 60%, or would you rather own PNG or Caterpillar? So now the E is the hard part because we're worried that these things are so out over their skis that we have a circular financing. For example, NVIDIA is financing. It's a mine, right? It's financing the picks. It's financing the shovels. It owns the banks that is loaning money to the mines that the demand signal might not be organic. But when you look at these companies, cashflow generation, and you look at their value, you're going to see that they're valuations. Cisco was trading at a PE of 299. NVIDIA is trading at 16 or 17. So the bull case is they don't look expensive right now. But you just brought up that idea of picks and Xs. NVIDIA just invested in meta in their. So meta is looking for money too. Everyone's looking for money essentially because they have to pay for these data centers. Well, that's the fear is the infrastructure build out, feels like the railroads, and it's just too much. And the R will never catch up to the ROI, right? But when you have a company like Anthropic, I'll go to the bull case again, growing 14X. If it just goes three to five X a year for two years, it'll look reasonably priced. But can there be a lot of them? When you say there'll be a lot of them. A lot of like Anthropic, OpenAI, et cetera, et cetera. Well, the fear is, I mean, it gets very complicated very fast because NVIDIA, excuse me, Anthropic and OpenAI are, I mean, this is so weird. You have NVIDIA loaning money to meta and meta is loaning some of that money to buy NVIDIA chips. So that's a circular financing. And when that unwinds, it unwinds really fast. And also you have NVIDIA and OpenAI borrowing money from their competitors. In other words, the people offering compute, whether it's Broadcom, Nscale, Google, Amazon to the front NLLMs are also their competitors. So they're probably going to have to even spend more money and go vertical such that they're not dependent upon their, for financing and for compute from their competitors. This all feels just very incestuous and very strange and very dangerous. And it smells like teen spirit. It smells like 99 again. But then when you actually look at the cashflow generation of these companies to call it a Cisco or to call it a pets.com is just not accurate. So will you buy into, the Anthropic is going to be going out in November. You would buy into this? When? Pre-IPO? Anytime. What difference? Pre-IPO, IPO, would you hold it? Oh yeah. And I would trade out on the first trade. First trade? Yeah. I would trade out on the first. It will, people will get so excited about it. Goldman and JP Morgan, the IPO market is rigged folks. And that is they'll use AI and they'll do all sorts of demand scenarios to make sure it gets a 20 or 30% pop on its first trade. And they give the insiders, it's institutional clients that create fees for them and investment banking fees. They give them access. And they say to the company, it's worth taking additional dilution for the 20 to 30% pop because you'll be on the front page of every newspaper saying that you got a 20 to 30% pop, which is a once in a lifetime branding event. It's totally rigged. And the people in this audience get to buy it after that pop, when it hits its natural pricing level. So if you're fortunate enough to get in pre-IPO or on from Goldman or JP Morgan, you buy it and then I would just sell it on the first trade. On the first trade. Wow. Well, that's a real, you know, wow. That's, you really love that company. Okay. A couple more things. OpenAI wants to rebrand AI data centers as compute campuses. Fucking hate these people. They're not, I mean, they're, they're not even good at English. It's just like, oh, come on. In an effort to improve public perception, maybe if they weren't such assholes, it might, anyway. A spokesman says the name better describe the scale and role of infrastructure the company is, I can't believe I'm reading this, is building. The move comes as a company prepares for potentially tougher regulatory environment after the election, you think? Sam Altman? Oh, well. Too many lunches at Trump, at White House, I guess. Mr. Branding, does the name change? I think they should just call it, I don't know, Train Daddy or something. I don't know. Something that's appealing. A couple of questions about compute campuses. Thoughts, Mr. Brander? Well, it depends. If it's a merger and you have to an opportunity morgan stanley acquired or dean witter kind of acquired morgan stanley morgan stanley is the better brand then you absorb morgan stanley as the brand wells fargo norwest a boring mortgage company out of minneapolis acquired wells fargo wells fargo is a great brand so they absorb the wells fargo brand but generally when you make a name change it doesn't work whether it's value jet to transair or like oh i'll definitely go to work for altria not philip morris i mean it doesn't it doesn't really work uh you know it's like okay there's such good people at meta it's not facebook um so generally speaking it's a negative forward-looking indicator when you think are the the general perception of us of us is so negative that we're not going to change it i had a brand strategy firm and we actually did work for exxon i know hate me um but they were thinking about a name change we said the global recognition the association with the tiger investors still love this company fossil fuels looks huge you're a global brand no you're not going to escape this ecological disaster by changing your name yeah remember it was beyond petroleum so i have some knowledge here i teach at a campus and your electricity rates aren't going to go up in my campus yeah yeah so not a good idea they it almost never works yeah and then with the regulatory environment what do they need to do does as i make a joke does do people like mark zuckerberg have to call themselves they them going forward what has to happen well it will happen i just got invited to a meta party so that you know things are turning but go ahead this is we'd love to have you cara i'm like what anyway but oh i'm going but just because i because i like that weight and dangerous routers this is obviously a very progressive audience i personally think the the kerfuffle over data centers is misplaced and i think it's a bad move for uh democrats uh the moratoriums that governor hokal who i'm a fan of i think it's populist well greg abbott too this is an argument as old as time nobody wants the chicken processing plant or the nuclear power plant or the ford factory down the block from them it's up to elected officials to figure out a way such that it's a win for the local community and assuage their concerns whether it's them producing their own electricity but the reality is this is what in my view is going to happen and bums me out as a democrat is that the republican states are going to get all of those data centers that pay property taxes and they will raise the rates in the in the money that they have to provide to the local community which will benefit the red states and say come on in good local officials should be able to figure out a way to say you cannot raise the electricity rates it has to be in an area it has to be closed loop water but all this populist bullshit is going to do what we always do we'd rather be indignant than pay for our fucking food stamps well at the same time let me be clear i'm gonna i'm gonna push back on that because i've talked to lots of mayors it's the citizens it's not the politicians are just reacting but it's the citizens because they feel populist movement they it's not just that they feel like as hillary was talking about accountability corruption it you know what state has the most data centers virginia virginia right exactly and they're good citizens they don't call the fire department they don't call the cops there's no ice raids they pay property they have to do it right but it does reflect voter sentiment and you should pay attention to that if you're a politician you should not oh i i agree it's a populist movement but in my view it is not leadership it is posture when it feels like there's some reigning of these people in people might feel better about that kind of data centers are the latest vessel for income inequality people are angry all they hear about is people becoming trillionaires and being ungrateful and not acquitting themselves well and so their anger they find a vessel for their anger and i feel like the vessel right now unfortunately and i think it's a mistake the vessel for their anger is rallying against data centers i don't i i think it's a bad move and ultimately we need like we need growth we need money to pay for wonderful social services and to have tax credits for housing and better schools and you have to have an eye on growth and we are pushing all the growth into red states as long as they feel like the money's going to them i think that's i think that's part of it i feel like it's corruption they feel like it's not it's quiet it's ndas it's like all the ndas in the world are really irritating to average citizens and they're articulating it through that in any case um speaking of tech people my good friend i'm going to ask you a question about your exit papers from cnn um i have a good friend larry ellison um who is the owner now of cnn um wait i'm sorry wait i'm getting i literally have no idea what's going on right now send the courier in miss swisher miss swisher i need you to sign this i need you to sign this how are you hi john lemon hi everybody hi miss swisher how you doing these are your exit papers from cnn and you have to sign them now who gives a fuck go already jesus christ the person who's at the party well i'm leaving they're still here a half an hour later i got something better to do no you don't bitch jesus christ she makes about four what 200 times what you make at cnn with this this bullshit yeah yeah that's but she just signed her papers she's not going to be preaching to 69 year olds with an oxygen tank awakening for ari melba to come on so they can masturbate in any case let me tell you i'm very proud of you thank you john lemon said you better not not quit and i didn't so i just want to say scott i'm not leaving i left you left all right thank you thanks everyone i love you yeah sometimes you just have to say no over and over well i'm never gonna leave you just remember that uh anyway uh we need to take another quick break everyone will be right back for wins and fails ripple has been powering modern finance for a decade we're leading the charge to bridge the gap between existing financial systems and the future of finance you can have it all legacy stability and digital innovation systems that work with your other systems because with the right partner the question isn't crypto or digital innovation it's the question of traditional finance the question is simply why choose a new standard of modern finance it's happening with ripple for informational purposes only availability of products can vary and may be provided by different ripple entities support for the show comes from core weave ai isn't just a new tool it encompasses so much more it's spurring a revolution across all industries and reshaping itself to become a big part of our future together core weave is at the center powering some 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framer.com slash pivot for 30 off a framer pro annual plan that's framer.com slash pivot rules and restrictions may apply so scott we're back and it's time for wins and fails i have i'm gonna go first okay please uh you'd think i would say the valkyries winning in san francisco amazing that was fantastic that was amazing but i have a couple of little ones i'm gonna do for my wins i'm not gonna have any fails today because i don't feel like it it's a great day for the valkyries winning the gilded age returns with train daddy and carrie coon who are dave did the sexiest picture ever and a blink in your eye and you're like oh my god you'll miss a cameo from david letterman and matt damon which is fantastic um i also win is i have two of my friends from uh from high school earlier middle school treby williams and carla rubin they're here and it's treby's birthday so everybody wish her a happy birthday when you see her and lastly i invited some friends uh who used to run 60 minutes bill owens and tanya simon they're here today and they did an amazing job so And they're on to really interesting stuff. Okay. Those are my wins. Those are all my wins. I don't have any fails. You don't have a fail? I don't have one fail today. Okay. So I'll go fail first. I think the idolatry of innovators has gotten so out of control. I was talking to the secretary before this. If you go up and down the West Coast, you're going to see literally companies. The West Coast is littered with multi-trillion dollar companies. And you get to the Canadian border, it stops. You get to the Mexican border, it stops. And yet these individuals are quick to credit their grit and their character for their success and blame the government for their failures. And what is so disappointing, that's not my fail, because if you tell a 35-year-old male who's Jesus Christ, he's inclined to believe you. The fail is that we have begun believing through this ridiculous, unhealthy, and dangerous idolatry of innovators that they get to live by an entirely different standard. Elon Musk is a traitor to the West. In the 30s, we had this incredible hero, Charles Lindbergh, an innovator. And he felt that we should be on the side of Germany. And a lot of people felt that way. We had spent tremendous capital, a lot of loss of human life, of young men in World War I. And we thought, you can understand, we don't want to go back, right? And his view was we should partner with Germany, and he didn't want to go back. And he didn't want to go back. And he Hitler. And this could have very easily happened. He was a hero. What if he'd raised the capital to buy Boeing? He probably could have done it. And then when we lent B-17s to run bombing runs over Germany to the RAF, what if he had figured out a guidance for a flight system, and then mid-1940, before we were involved in the war, decided to throttle back those guidance systems, and the Blitzkrieg in London got worse, and more homes and more civilians were destroyed and killed respectively? What would we have done to Charles Lindbergh? But it's uncomfortable and weird because we've decided someone who's a trillionaire and makes a great EV and can land a rocket on scissors is held to a different standard. We lined up the Rosenbergs against a wall. This is a traitor to the West, and you should be held to the same standards as every other traitor in the West. Anyways. You know, you know, Scott, we'll now be challenging you to a sword duel like he did with me. And by the way, I've said much worse things about him. He attacks me. He says I don't have a clue. He says you're stupid, pretty much. Yeah. And then Kara says something much less incendiary, and he's threatening to put her in prison. Like, what's the difference? Anyways, my fail is, I don't even blame them. The failure is ours. This, for some reason, we have decided, I just don't get it. If the CEO of Northrop Grumman was turning off Ohio-class submarines out in the South Asian seas, he'd have a lot of splaining to do. It's time for him to do some explaining. My win is the swingiest swing voters in every election are actually young men, and that is young men are more inclined. What's very interesting about this election is essentially the largest political party is now independents, which means more people are going to vote, more people than ever are up for grabs. And the swingers, if you think about what's happened in the US, where five states have effectively become the ones that decide the presidential election, within that now, or the people are going to start deciding more and more elections, will be the ones that can go, quite frankly, either way. No one changes, goes hard or blue from red more consistently or inconsistently than young men. Trump won them by 14 points, in 2024. They are now polling 16 points towards blue, and young men essentially vote based on economics. Young women vote more on social issues. Young men vote more on economic issues. They basically want to know who's going to put money in their pockets so they can be prosperous, start families. And what the Republican Party has been amazing at is creating a brand that has an association with economic growth. And it's just not true. And my message, this is coming out tomorrow during Election Day, to young men who have, are thinking about it and want to vote, but haven't thought through, and most people aren't like us, don't spend as much time thinking about these issues. I went back to 1980, which a lot of people would consider the pivot point when we evolved from a manufacturing economy to a service and a tech economy. Since then, we've had almost 12 presidential administrations. We're kind of at six and a half into Republican administration. We've had five Democratic administrations. I went back and I added up all of the GDP growth, all of the job growth, and all of the deficit growth. And then I averaged it across Republican administrations and Democratic administrations. And these are the findings. During Republican administrations, America has added, on average, a million jobs a year. During Democratic administrations, we have averaged an additional two million jobs per year. In terms of GDP growth, economic growth, during Republican administrations, we have averaged 2.1% economic growth. During Democratic administrations, we have averaged 4.1% GDP growth. And then the retort might be, well, typical Democrats tax and spend. However, deficits have grown, on average, 2.1% of GDP under Democratic administrations. They have grown 2.8% on average during Republican administrations. So across a sample set of 12 data points, what you have is the following. With Democratic policies of a progressive tax structure on corporations and the wealthy and a reinvestment in the middle class and a stronger social and safety net and thoughtful regulation that helps scale companies, what you get is more jobs, more growth, and lower deficits. So if you are a young person, you're going to have to make a lot of money. You're going to have to make a lot of money. in saving the whales, what I would ask of you is ignore our bullshit virtue signaling and identity politics and indignance over shit, which I find obnoxious and ask yourself, do you want more money in your pocket? And if the answer is yes, tomorrow, November 3rd, vote blue. Wow. You are constantly surprising me. And I want to say I support Mike Rogers. No, I don't, that fucking asshole. No. Anyway, we need. That was great, Scott. That really was. I'm very touched. That was lovely. Okay, we need to take another break, and when we come back, we'll take some questions from the audience. 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I'm excited because I am about to start a PivotPost Beehive newsletter with Scott Galloway for Pivot. I really like the platform for a lot of reasons, especially because it focuses in on the creator more than anything else, and I really appreciate that about them. I'm very excited to start up PivotPost on Beehive, and it's the only place I would do it. Scott, we're back recording live from New York City at the lovely Beacon Theater in New York City. We're going to now do audience questions, and we're excited to answer them, but please be considerate and keep them very short so we can get to as many people as possible. Line up here. Who is this young man? Is this thing on? Yeah. Hi. Who is this? I'm a little nervous. Okay. My name is Michael Barbaro. And I host a small podcast called The Daily. Yeah. I have heard of this podcast. Long time, first time. Wait, I got to do this. I'm just going to interrupt you a bunch of times and go, huh, huh, huh, really? This is not a plant at all. Go ahead. Okay. It's better than showing off your belly. Oh, well done. Well done. Okay. So I have a serious question. Okay. And a less serious question. And yes, I'm a plant. The first question carries for you and Secretary Clinton, if you would bring it to her, and you can answer it yourself. Let's say that the Democrats flip control of both chambers of Congress tomorrow. On your show with the secretary, you all have discussed what I would regard as an enthusiasm for investigating the president, the cabinet, the administration. Have you fully contemplated the downsides of those investigations? The president was impeached twice in the first term. Right. Arguably, that in combination with prosecutions fueled his political movement thereafter. So that's the first serious journalistic question. The second one is that The Daily is turning 10. Congratulations. Thank you. And frankly, the reason I'm here is to steal the wisdom of your live events mojo and absorb how you do things. And I wonder if you have any advice for us as we embark on a series of live events to celebrate us turning 10, knowing that we are more buttoned up, less profane, less bare belly forward. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you, Michael Barbero. I'll answer the first one very quickly, Michael. I think Secretary Clinton did say this on the podcast. She doesn't believe Trump should be impeached. It's a waste of time. He's immune and it'll just suck up oxygen. She does believe Pete Hegseth should be hung out to dry and other lesser people because it creates a feeling that you pay for your crimes, essentially, or whatever you pay for your actions. And so I think I would tend to agree with that as much as it might tickle our fancy to do that. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to do that with Trump. As to advice, Scott, why don't you start for Michael on? Just bring your voice, brother. I love The Daily. I think they do a great job. I find The New York Times journalists incredibly, I think they brighten up a room by leaving it. So I go right to the news. I don't like the banter up front. But dude, bring that dreamy voice. I mean, he told me about The Daily backstage live events. That just works. You know that's going to work. They're going to have every liberal like, you're my dream. Can I set you up with my daughter, Michael? Anyways, that's a win. You don't need our help. All right. I have some advice. Actually, I think you have to get The Times to be less buttoned up. I think it's really important. You know, I've talked about this, that it's got to feel like people, the reason The Daily is so successful is not just because of the journalism of which it's an important part. It's because of you and your co-hosts and everything else. And it's really important that you really broke through as a voice that people trust. And I think in this age, I don't think every journalist deserves that kind of attention, but you're bringing a lot of great information. So. Bring it, make it real, do a lot of stuff with your fans and talk to them. Bring really great guests like Hillary Clinton and really just start to, no, you can borrow her. But you really, I think if you really have to lean into it, and I'm honestly surprised that you haven't done it sooner. I wish you had, and I'm glad you didn't. And The Times did this with Andrew Ross Sorkin's event, which is a version of what we had done at Code many years ago. But, but I think you just, just bring you. I think you and your co-hosts, they're here, they're to see you and, and to be with each other and provide lots of community stuff for them. Also, a dick joke or two wouldn't hurt, Michael. I'll be honest with you. All right. Question. What? Oh, stop. Don't tell me not to do dick jokes. It's not going to happen. All right. Let's start here, young man. Go ahead. Hi, guys. My name is Jack. I'm 15 years old. And and at my high school, I started a for young men. Yeah. And inspired by you, Scott. And I was just wondering, like, if you have any advice for me, like building community with young men in my high school. Yeah. Good question. What a generous question. Well, first off, Kara is a, people ask me what I admire about Kara. And I admire her professionally, but I admire what a great mother she is. Do you want to? No, you go for it. Look, a few things. I think there's natural, a hormone will come over you naturally. You're not that Scott, don't go there. As you're getting to the point where leaving the pack, leaving your family and going to work or going to college is starting to become a reality. And it's so painful that mammals have a hormone that releases that makes it easier for you to leave. And you start thinking your parents are idiots. And then you realize when you're in college and that they're imperfect, but they're probably the best allies you're ever going to have. And so what I would suggest at the age of 15 is skip to the point where you recognize your parents are your allies. To the key to yes, if you want to be influential, if you want to make a lot of money, if you want to, all I wanted when I was your age was to be awesome. And to be awesome was to be rich and have a girlfriend that was much hotter than me. Those were my two objectives. And I've achieved both those things. And the way I've done it was when I was your age, I ran for sophomore class president and I lost. I ran for junior class president and I lost. I ran for senior class president and I lost. And based on my track record, I decided to run for student body president where I went on to wait for it, lose. But I was never afraid to try and do things where I might fail. I asked six girls to the prom. I didn't go to my prom. But the reason I have some economic security, the reason I get to do amazing things, the reason I get to hang out with someone much higher character than me and have children is because when I was your age, I learned how to do things. And I learned how to do things. I learned how to endure no. And also, finally, I had, when I was your age, I had jobs. I would try and get a job. I think learning capitalism and getting a little bit of money is a wonderful thing. You learn about the economy and capitalism. I think every man, and this is going to sound sexist, but I think every man needs to have an economic plan. You're going to be disproportionately evaluated based on your economic viability. It's not the way the world should be. It's the way the world should be. It's the way the world is. Start making money now and learning to get a taste of the flesh for money. And I used to have the nicest people. I was a box boy. I was, I cleaned beer taps. I used to carry a woman down, a woman named Lillian Hellman, an author. I used to carry her down and take her to dinner. I had all these weird jobs. And I always had these, I always had these occasionally nice people. And there's one nice man who I used to carry groceries to his car would do this to me. He'd always go, he'd look at me and he'd be like, what gun? He'd go, and he'd wink. And he'd give me 20 bucks, which in my day was like $3 million. Anyways, I'm going to give you some money and I want you to take your parents out to dinner. All right. Okay. No, I'm just going to give you money. The only thing I would say to a young man is, is love your mama. That's how, that's how I train my boys. Real quick, let's get through and we can get them as many as possible. We've got a few minutes. Hi, Scott. Um, please accept the affirmation of this stranger. Uh, my name is Dan Hank. I'm a moderately successful film producer. Love your work. I had the privilege of a state university education, much like yourself. Um, my question for you is you're so successful. In the unscripted world of things where we spend a lot of money to buy tickets, listen to your podcasts, buy your books, all that stuff, it's all terrific, it's all real. You have such a great voice. You were developing some stuff in the scripted world, which I work in. I don't remember seeing it happen. And you talk about success and failure all the time. Did you get a setback? And if you did, pick it up and carry forward because we'd buy tickets to it. You're being very generous. I fly into Los Angeles airspace and I turn into the most unsuccessful person in history. I've had, by the way, I've had five TV shows. Most of them have been canceled before they started. I had a Bloomberg TV show. We sold $3 million in advertising. And I went into my garage to film some promos. And I did the Village People construction guy without my shirt. And I said my favorite one-night stand was the Nut and Bolt. And supposedly Bloomberg freaked out. Look at us. I canceled my show. My Vice show got canceled. I've just had so many shows. CNN Plus. CNN Plus canceled. Yeah. I had a show on CNN. It was very successful. Original scripted series on big tech. You know, this amazing showrunner, Rosamund Pike, was the lead. Netflix bought it in the room. $90 million budget. What happened to it? The whole thing fell apart. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I've just. But here's. I think, by the way, I would encourage anyone to be in your industry. I think it's amazing after you've made a shit ton of money. If I had to make my living in your industry, I would be a chocolate mess. Yeah. I have never seen anything so disconnected from talent or grit. It just strikes me as so incredibly random what the fuck is going on there. He's not bitter. But. I live in New York. Our chocolate doesn't melt so fast. Can I just add, they did buy the rights to Burn Book, and it's now a lesbian murder mystery. I think it's going to be a huge hit. So. That'll be coming soon. I solved the murder. Every one of my books has been optioned for a movie. The most recent one, Notes on Being a Man, has been optioned for an R-rated Wonder Years. It will not happen. Yeah. But I appreciate your comments, and I respect how incredibly resilient and secure you must be to be in that industry and make a living. Because I have not figured out. Okay, we got to get to these fast. Hey, so actually, I didn't know anything about this. My mom was in London and gave me the tickets, so. Well, thanks. Thanks, Mom. Yeah, thank you. Was Billy Crystal sold out? Yeah. Nah. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. You just don't even know who Billy Crystal is. Yeah, I'm not really in the, like, this space that's going on here. And I'm just like, I don't know. I do like how you relate to kind of men my age, because right now I'm pretty lost. Like. I'm in a state, in a blue state, that I feel like I have no reason to vote, honestly, because it's just going to go the way that it is. And, like, I've done some exploring, like, around the world and stuff, and seen, like, some crazy stuff that's, like, seems way worse that, like, no one's focusing on. And it's just, like, I don't know. I don't have much. Do you have, like, an argument for why or why not I should be, like, interested in this space of politics? How old are you? I'm 23. I'm not really political. Like, people get triggered by stuff all the time. Yeah, I have two sons who are 24 and 21, so I've heard this from them, although lately they've become more concerned and interested. One son is in Michigan. He's at University of Michigan. And I would say he's more conservative than the other one who is a lesbian in San Francisco. He really is. I mean, he's straight, but, you know. Anyway, but one of the things I. Here's one thing I say to them. I say to them, they have to vote. As a parent, I was like, listen, it's a privilege and an honor to be able to vote. People across the world can't. And I make it. I know that, your mom, you know, but that's, like, you want some money for college? You need to vote. Like, I'm sorry. This is important to me, and I think it's important. The world is not aimed at you. As Scott always says, older people suck up all the fucking oxygen in the room, and it's not fair to young people. The deficits, everything else, we're giving you a less good world as opposed to we got better world. So as we go ahead, and it's not fair, but the only. There's moments of change that are happening right now, and young people across the world are leading these things. And what I always say to people who are older, including my mom, who's 92, when she goes off on something, I go, look at me. You're going to be dead. It's not going to matter to you. It's going to matter to people like you. And so you've got to think about the mistakes you want to make, the things that you did wrong, but you're going to have to run this world someday, so you need to be part of it. I can't make you do it, but if you don't, you can't complain about the way it is. That's all. Well, go ahead. But you should vote. Do you have anything else to add? Yeah, just you can do it for the right reasons and the civic reasons. Do it for selfish reasons. We're going to spend more money on ICE than we're going to spend on children because children don't vote. Seniors get 40% of entitlements. It's going to 50%. Our democracy right now is a bunch of old people voting, older people into office who vote old people more money. Since 2022, people over the age of 75 have gotten 34% wealthier. People under the age of 25, you have gotten 23% less wealthy. If you want a progressive Social Security tax that basically stops every piece of legislation the last 40 years is simple. It has taken money out of your pocket and put it in ours. And if you want it to stop, for God's sakes, start voting. It's that simple. All right. Cool. Okay, one more thing before we go. Last week on the show, we announced PivotPost, our newsletters where you can write in with and by the way, my lovely wife, Amanda, who is here, who's astonishing and has let me go away this week, named it the PivotPost, our newsletters where you can write it all in with your questions about tech, business, and life. Anyway, you can catch selected shows from this tour on YouTube and in our podcast feed. That's all we've got time for today. Thank you for staying late. Scott, read us out. Special thanks to the MSG Entertainment and the Beacon Theater. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcos, Taylor Griffin, and Madeline LaPlante-Dubé. Ernie and her tight entry to this episode, Ronnie Politaro edited the video. Thanks also to Dubrow's Miss Vero, Dan Chalon, and Kate Gallagher. Go vote. Vote tomorrow. Thank you, New York. Thank you, New York. Thank you so much. Thank you. Because creating your content is hard enough, let Beehive help you with everything else. Visit Beehive.com slash pivot. That's B-E-E-H-I-I-V dot com slash pivot and start building your newsletter today.