Michelle Williams on Destiny’s Child, Faith & Future Love

Y'all, the Queen of Bridges is on the podcast today. Yes, the Michelle Williams. From being one-third of one of the most iconic groups of all time, Destiny's Child, to building a life that's fully her own. Michelle's journey has been about so much more than music. It's been about faith, healing, identity, and finding her voice beyond the spotlight. She's been honest about what it looks like to be celebrated publicly while dealing with real struggles privately, and what it takes to come back to yourself on your own terms. This conversation is about trusting your voice, choosing healing without shame, and aligning your life with who you truly are. Let's talk about it. On Baby, this is Kiki Palmer. So grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy and get into the vibe that only one can smell. You know it's your girl. Baby, this is, this is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer, yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by the new drinks at McDonald's. Six new drinks, crafted sodas with cold foam, refreshers with popping boba and freeze-dried fruit, and trust, they are giving everything. Now, let's get into it. Today's show. Baby, this is Michelle Williams. Where you at, girl? How are you? Girl, you're fabulous. Oh, you too, you too. That intro brought me to tears. OMG. It's all true. And can we just talk about how I'm always laughing at your posts? What am I, what did I do? You are so funny. When you had that video about people coming to see you in Death Becomes Her, and they are literally eating their snacks. Girl, that made me laugh too hard. Why do I feel like people thought I was paying them a compliment? I wasn't. Okay, I'm in the middle of this show, and all I hear is you chomping on them chips, y'all. They don't even share. That is too funny, girl. That made me laugh so much. I love how social media allows us to see into people's real lives and personality, because I didn't realize how funny you were till I started following you. I am a little hoot. You are funny. Thank you, thank you. I take that as a compliment, you know. I love, well, sometimes I can be too funny and they're like, "Is she on something?" I'm like, "No, I'm sober." I'm happy. I'm happy. Yeah, literally, literally. You look great. Oh my gosh, girl, thank you so much. Serve this hair, serve the joy, the skin, the teeth, the glow. Are you loving New York? I didn't know you were here. I've been here since 2024. Yeah, yeah, and this was even before the Broadway shows and stuff. No, I'm based in Georgia, born and raised in Illinois. Okay. Rockford. Family. Rockford. Shout out to Rockford. I know about you, but I've been here since like 2024. That's right. I didn't, I'm like, "Okay, let's go." I cannot wait to see you in the show. Please do, you must come see the show. Girl, it's going to be too good, and I love the movie, so I'm excited to see the show. You know what I mean, so. And I think I know your laugh, so I'll know when it's you. And I'm not going to be eating no chips, okay? You can't eat them, just put them in like a tissue paper, something that don't. Okay. Don't do all that. Oh my gosh. So I had you do the pre-show pull-up questions. Your full name, it's so funny because I'm the same as you. My real name is Lauren. My first name is Lauren, but everybody knows me as Kiki. Your first name is Tinitra. Yes. Do any of your family members call you Tinitra? They do. Okay. They still do to this day. They call me Tinitra, T. Okay, TT. TT. Yes, no one calls me Michelle. So was Michelle just your idea for, you know, when I have a stage name, it's going to be Michelle Williams? It never was. It never was, but it was talked about, and I was like, and I can say it now, it's been so many years, but I do kind of like having the separation. Me too. Kind of like having the separation. Me too. But I feel like because I've been doing this so long, you getting Tinitra. Yes. You are getting Tinitra. And that's how I feel too about the whole Kiki Palmer of it all, but the reality is like you only can see so much of somebody without knowing them. So it's almost like the public persona versus the interpersonal family, et cetera, but you're still getting me. Yeah, you're still getting me. Yeah. You know? I don't want the public to be like, "Well, who are you?" But like, I'm Michelle, I'm Tinitra. I think Michelle is the alter ego. Right. You know? Right. But then sometimes I need to pull Tinitra out sometimes for the alter ego. Yes. I feel the same way. You call me confused. Integrated is what we call it. I love that. I love that. Yeah. Your zodiac sign is a Leo. I love Leos. Do you feel very Leo? Do you even resonate with the sign stuff? Apparently in some publications I have been a Leo or a Cancer. My birthday is on the cusp, but that's all I know. I asked my mother what time I was born one day and you would have thought I asked for my social security card. Yeah. Parents get so. They immediately are like, "What are you up to?" It's like, "Well, I just want to know the time. Damn." Yeah. I don't know if I was born in the night time or day time. She can give you the 8:00 p.m. or 1:00 p.m. Can you give me like, was the sun out? Wow. Was it dark? That is true. I know I was born on a Monday. Oh my gosh. But that's all I know. Yeah. So Leos, they say Leos are very confident. They're not afraid to be delegating in a situation. Very loyal. Fiercely loyal. Mm-hmm. Leos are also. I mean, I guess those are the main things. Yeah. Then they say with cancers, a lot of people think cancers are when they hear emotional, they think crying all the time. Actually when they say emotionals for cancers, they mean they can feel everything. I can feel a lot. So you feel connected to that. Yeah. Okay. You right on that cusp. I am. Apparently I'm on the cusp. I don't know. If you ask family, they'll be like, "Jesus is your sign. You woke up this morning." Okay. You know how Trey Fox is. Anytime Trey Fox hits signs, they immediately. The vibe. I'm like, "I don't know. I promise you." "I promise you." "I promise you." "I promise the stars, mama." What's your love language? I see you wrote quality time. I do like quality time. Yeah. But don't smother me. Okay. But I want you near. I want to know you're there. Yes. I don't like that smothered either. Why are we enmeshed? Enmeshment in the words of psychology is not good. Yes. I saw that you do not want to live with your boo. Uh-uh. We don't need to live together. And this is the funny thing about it. The reality too, because some people love that. And then some people were like, "Well, that's crazy," but it's like, what if you and your lover are always traveling? You're working for your jobs. You're probably not spending all that much time together anyway. Anyway. What if the person you're with is in the military? What if the person you're with works? You know what I mean? Like jobs even. So even if you do have one house together, I think the real thing is like you said, we got to have something to bring back to each other. You know what? I could see myself and my husband living in two four-story towns. Oh my gosh. Right next door to each other. That is so hot. Okay? I mean, that's so sexy. Like I want to see your rooftop patio and then I wave at you. Oh my God. That is fabulous. And then if you want to stop by, come on by. That is so fabulous. But we got to be next door. I want to be able to see you. I love the next door. It also feels. You know what it reminds me of? Like a show back in the 1960s or maybe 1970s, like Mary Tyler Moore or something. Yeah. But I will have cameras in your house. I want it. That's their living room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Y'all stay together gave me life. Yeah. I heard it in there. Yes. I went in my hotel room, got a pillow, and screamed-- I know you did. --in the pillow. I could not believe it. I still see it. I still feel it today. That is just so awesome. What a great person to have gotten to meet. Rest in peace, Whitney. Absolutely. She is like-- I feel like she is like the DNA of so many of us. Absolutely. It's crazy just watching her. I feel like-- I never got a chance to meet her, but I feel like-- I feel her in my soul and my spirit just as a great influence to the world. Like, Whitney, all of her songs-- there was a song that just came to mind the other day. Her song called "Miracle." Wow. And I used to sing that song all the time. That was the time where you had to rewind the cassette-- Yes. --and write the lyrics down. Y'all don't know nothing about that. Oh, my gosh. Now you can just Google the lyrics. I remember the cassettes, though. I do. My mom used to record over hours sometimes with her own music. Girl, if you don't get a demo tape, it was crazy. Bone Thugs-N-Harmony tape just gone. Gone. It's crazy. So you grew up-- And it's Shirley Caesar. Shirley Caesar. So you grew up in Rockford, Illinois. Rockford, Illinois. You know, whenever I-- I never had gone to Rockford, Illinois. I grew up in the south suburb. Robbins. I grew up in Robbins. I've been to Robbins many times. Girl, you know Robbins is a mess. Okay? It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's a mess, but Dwayne Wade is from Robbins, Nichelle Nichols, we love that for you. You know, we got some fun. But Kenan and Kel had a Halloween movie, and I remember they were like, welcome to Roxford. They were in Rockford, Illinois. Rockford, Illinois. We're home of Cheap Trick. Come on, Cheap Trick. Danica Patrick. Come on. We've got a lot of stars as well. Michelle Williams. With me. Okay. So what was it like for you growing up in Rockford? I feel like the Midwest is such a special upbringing. I mean, nothing but cornfields and starchy foods. I think we're the best. I do, too. I think we're some of the best in the industry, by the way. Girl. I think we're balanced. No shade to you East Coasters, Westerners, and Southerners. We have all of that. We do. How often do you go back? Is your family still there? My entire family is, my immediate family is all still in Illinois. Yeah. And then I've got some cousins. I've got cousins who finally moved to Arizona and Georgia. And I'm like, finally, when we have family reunions, we actually have people to see and go because I would see everybody every Sunday at church. And then when we would have a family reunion, I'm like, we ain't reuniting with nobody. Right, right. I see y'all all the time. Exactly. So let's call it a family gathering. Girl, growing up in the church is everything. And I love when you share stories about that when you were talking about, I don't know if it was vacation, Bible school, where you, yeah. When you got into the little fight. I mean, church, I think the sense of community that comes from growing up in those, in that kind of environment. What do you feel like you learned growing up in that? Because I feel like it taught me everything I know, honestly, that early foundation. It taught me everything. It taught me even things musically. We didn't have all the technology. So even now, if something happens during a performance where there's a glitch, it teaches you how to keep it moving. That's right. I just love the grit, the strength. Resilience, sometimes I question if that's, if you're born with it or through time and situations, you know, I don't know. But it's something that keeps me anchored. Yes. It keeps me anchored. My family, I'm proud of my family. I know they're proud of me. And so anything I do, I kind of have them in the forefront of my mind as well. Yeah. I really love what you said, too, about just that anchor, because I feel like that foundation early on, and I don't know how, if my parents knew or if they were learning and they were just doing what they thought was good, giving me that structure. But those early conversations of just with myself, of just praying, you know, Lord, now lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. Just having that internal conversation and moment of reflection, it gave me a sense of awareness and connection that I understand now. But as a kid, it was just, I didn't. You know, I was just doing what I was told. But I'm so grateful to have that. We have, and now we have something to grab a hold to. Woo! We have something to hold on to. Yeah. And so that's what, you know, yeah. Yeah. You said sometimes money and success can only magnify a troubled or wounded soul. When did you realize that concept in your own journey? Woo! Now, when you also asked. You asked me what my sign is. Dollar sign. You had dollar sign. You had dollar sign. I know. That's right. That's the Leo again. We, we, you had dollar sign to that. I like money. Okay. You don't have me though. I, you know, it, it, yeah. Money does not control me. Mm-hmm. Right? So I'll say that. Yeah. But I do think, I don't know if it's maybe even access. Yes. Pressure that comes with who you are, whatever that is. But, well, they say when you press an orange, orange juice should come out. Yeah. So when you, when there's pressure, whatever's in you will come out. Right? And then sometimes you'll learn, oh, what's in me, I need growth. Mm-hmm. I need help. Yeah. Yeah. And that's okay. Even the older you get or the more successful you get, you should always be a student. You should always be, I'm trying to do heart checks. Yeah. Daily. Yeah. Literally, like, last night before I went to bed, I'm like, there's one situation, I'm like, Lord, you got to help me with my heart on this. I'm always trying to do a heart check. I didn't know to always do that because you internalize and you have shame if you're feeling certain things that are considered negative. Yeah. Or, well, you have this life. You're on Broadway. You shouldn't, oh, that don't mean nothing. Strip all that away. Yes. I am still a soul. Yeah. That's one of those things that I love when we think about, like, the stories or parables like Job, where it's like that moment. Where he has the conversation with the friends and they're like, you shouldn't say that. You shouldn't say that. But it's like, you got to come to God with a truthful heart. Absolutely. Even if it is, I'm angry with you. You can't fool God. You can't fool. And what's the point? You know, and that actually is what makes it better. We actually hurt ourselves when we don't say, I'm angry. I'm mad. I feel jealousy in this moment. Why do I feel X, Y, and Z? And so I think that is really important that we don't have that shame. So I love that you said that. A young lady in the show that I'm in, I know we'll get to it, she helped me. About a year ago, I was so tired. Yeah. And I remember saying, ooh, I'm so tired, but I'm grateful. And she was like, you know you can be both. You can be tired and grateful. Because sometimes if you're telling somebody you're tired, well, this is what you prayed for. Well, this is what come with it. I'm tired. Why can't I say that? And I think that's why a lot of people feel so alone. When they are just simply tired, sad, angry, overwhelmed, afraid, concerned. Yeah. All those types of adjectives that you should not be naming if you have a good job. Yeah. If you got a good family. Like, no, you can be both. You can be overwhelmed and have a good family. I had that same moment with Chris Pratt. We were doing a commercial or something like that. And I said the same thing. I was like, ah. I'm so tired, but I'm glad. I'm grateful. And he's like, you don't have to do that with me. And I was like, huh? And he was like, I get it. We do have good jobs and we do have a grateful life, but we can be tired. And I'm like, thank you, brother, man. I was like, you cool. Yes. I was like, I even. Because sometimes you don't know that people can see the subtext of what you're carrying. You know, you might, whatever's on the surface. What's on the surface. But like, you actually saw me. I had the same thing happen with me recently. I was in Pilates. I'm becoming an instructor. And I was in my class. I see that, girl. Come on. And I'm so, you know, serious. You know, I'm like, you know. And the teacher, he was like, something when I was doing it. And he was like, you're like, this is my life. And I'm like, you get my subtext. You see that. You see that I am. Yeah. This is my life and that that's something that I'm learning to release. Come on. You know, it doesn't have to. Everything doesn't have to be so this is my life. Anyway. I love that. You said something else about the money piece that I want to go into. It's access. I think a lot of times it's like that is really the whole value of money. Like, I feel like we it's like we're just trying to get access. The fight to have money is really based on being able to have the best life I want to have. But what ends up happening, interestingly enough, is that sometimes you don't even know what to use the money for to support that life. Whether it is we thinking I need the outfit or I need the house or I need the bathroom. I need the bag or I need the whatever. But sometimes it's like I need access to the therapy. I need access to the center where I can get well for a minute. That's good. You know, sometimes we don't know. We want the access. Then we get the money and then we're overshadowed by actually what to use it for. What to use it for. You know. And you don't see. And it's trying to turn your perspective to see where it should hold value. Boom. Right. Um, I still am in therapy. Yeah. And I don't announce it, but there there are times where someone felt like they couldn't afford therapy. And I'm like, but you need it. So here are here's some sessions, you know, and then they're like, oh, my gosh, I didn't know the value of this. So now it's like I know where to put my money so that I can be a better person. And I think when you become. Better you get better. Yes. Without a doubt. You get better because you will learn to eliminate what does not serve you. And you eliminate that and then you're able to make room for better. But you don't know where to put the money to to get better. Sometimes you feel like it's subtraction. Money is leaving. Yeah. No, you're making room. And I think of it as investments. That's good. You know, like it's like that's how I look at sometimes we are, you know, you're holding on tight, but it's like, let it go if it's going to be an investment for the future. And that can look in so many different ways. What were those moments in your life where you started to realize how to treat the value of money, where that value should go and could go? There are were some great people that I've that I had early on in my career. I'll never forget Big Jim Wright. He was a music producer alongside Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Come on, Jimmy Jam. Who who they all. All three of them gave me great wisdom. in the early 2000s of saving and just because you can afford a certain type of home do you need it right now or do you need it at all there are certain things and I believe I am not materialistic but there was a point where shoes I didn't even have outfits to wear with the shoes but I love shoes I do I do love a certain ride you know and that that's my business you know what I'm saying yeah but um I want to be careful because I also fear and money were two things you don't want to be like well I want to gotta hold on to it because I might not have it I might not have it I might not lose I might that's that's fear and it has a lot to do with maybe how you were raised or what you saw growing up especially if you saw struggle yeah I get it I'm not saying be irresponsible you don't hear me saying that I'm not saying be irresponsible yeah but you're talking about the balance in between oh so much fear of not using it or not spending it um out of fear what's the part of the story of your story when people look at you and see you thriving that you wish they understood about the process of getting there you can grow you can change your mind and have wise counsel to help you navigate through those changes there are some things that I felt have been so abrupt in my life or I can't say I necessarily have heard people say I think I might have seen a comment years ago where it's like Michelle don't know what she want to do and I was like well man do I should I stay stuck here you know then I was taught well excel in this area and then branch out you know and I was like well I'm not going to do that I'm not going to do that you know but then I'm like you Kiki one day I heard you say child you gotta have multiple streams come on you know so true but having multiple streams but making it all somehow make sense yeah but I feel like if I want to just make croissants all day one day I'm gonna do it yeah and I'm gonna do it and I feel like as artists it's we're not often framed this way and I even say artists storytellers creators but we're also entrepreneurs this is a this is a job that is based on us being independent contractors sometimes we may get pulled into something that goes a minute a TV show Broadway then sometimes it's just this job for two months this thing for that thing so what else am I doing how am I finding the other ways that I can stay activated stay engaged staying activating what brings you joy what makes you happy where do you is there something that you're passionate about okay you might have this big thing over here but if there's something that you're passionate about where some people there's some things I'm passionate about where the powers that be don't really care about that like oh that's cute right I love portraying right yeah you know yeah that's great it's the mouth of me I love that I love the facial expressions that we can get into um when did you realize you know what it ain't just singing in church this is gonna be a career baby this is kinky palma yeah this episode is brought to you by the brand new drinks over at McDonald's okay y'all these drinks are officially the outside drinks of 2026 I'm talking concert season game day season vintage market season picnic in the park with a cute fit in a lover season these drinks were built for any occasion worth showing up for y'all the sprite berry blast with sprite blue raspberry and cold foam on top that's your drink before the headliner hits the stage the strawberry watermelon refresher with freeze-dried strawberry with a little caffeine to keep the energy going is what you and your girlfriends are going to be sipping at the post brunch afters six new drinks total crafted sodas with cold foam and refreshers with popping boba and freeze-dried fruit that go perfectly with even the chilliest of days and the hottest shenanigans before you pull up anywhere I know you're stopping at McDonald's first because that's just the move now new drinks now at McDonald's baby we outside okay so the road trip is happening all right the snacks are packed somebody already has the playlist ready and you already know the music is about to be popping okay and the kids have been asking are we there yet since before we left the driveway as someone who travels by car frequently with her child I know what will make or break that trip is what you pull up to at the end of it because after me and Leo have been in that car for six hours baby we are not trying to arrive at just anything we want to walk into a home and that's exactly what we're going to do exactly why I like booking stays on Airbnb when you get to a place that actually feels like somewhere you can live the whole energy shifts now we have a space to spread out a kitchen where I can throw something together if I want to a porch where I can sit breathe and come back to myself after that drive that's the reset you need the trip doesn't end when you arrive it's just getting started and when you book with Airbnb that's when the trip really begins to be honest now education was pretty pushed pretty much pushed my family because I feel like education was pushed there many singers in my family many musicians in my family but you'll be surprised most of them are doctors musicians doctors nurses teachers that's fabulous but and they all can sing or do something I was in college playing some of my favorite songs and I was like my brother's demo tapes majoring in criminal justice minoring in sociology wanting to be an artist though and sing but this is so funny the artist Selena Johnson went to the same university she was in a girl group this is where she had got signed she was leaving the group they wanted me to join the group I said oh no honey they sing in nightclubs I could not be in that group I got to sing in church I can just smell the smoke woo the cigarettes oh my god no no no no no and then like a year later I'm singing background for Monica then months later joining Destiny's Child kind of having the same was supposed to replace someone in college and then ended up doing the same thing for Destiny's Child I would sing in mirrors with brushes singing Whitney singing Cece Amanda Adams the group heart Bon Jovi oh my gosh heart they too much them girls can sing love love love them so much oh my gosh love them to pieces and but I just was like no just go ahead and be that prosecuting attorney or a forensic psychologist you're gonna thrive there you're gonna thrive there's crazy I knew that I was going to be successful in like seventh eighth grade I knew I was going to be successful I I was going to be successful I I was going to be I didn't know to what capacity but I knew I was going to be successful so we flash forward in college obviously other people saw this in you is this because you would just be in a room singing or y'all went to service together like how did they even you know I I was in this college choir fabulous I think I directed in the choir I'm in in my home church choir director praise and worship leader usher hospitality reading church announcements church nurse on fourth Sundays girl I did it all okay I was doing it all back then and I'm doing it all today I just love how everything is coming so full circle it's funny in life how you always we always are who we are in some regard you know what I mean it's like the the writing was always on the wall corn ball it was too easy okay so we're that was good though that was we're in college we're in college our friend is saying yo get in this group you get into the group I that that story I I can't recall I think her name might have been Aisha okay she was also in the group but there was a young musician in Chicago he is no longer with us his name was Freddie Moffitt he happened to call me one day and say he was about to go on the road with Monica and the group 98 degrees oh 98 degrees I kind of like their tune is like in my mind boy band though it was the Nick Lachey that was his group Nick Lachey and they could sing oh my god Nick Lachey I did like him their harmonies were so good so I told him I said well if Monica needs a background singer tell her I said hi and call me did he calls me about a week or so later and says she's having auditions tomorrow in Atlanta I said I can't afford a next day ticket if I take Greyhound I'll just be getting there today in 2026 you know they make stops everywhere in every county every city everybody used to love Greyhound they gonna stop 20 84 stops so he has a cousin her name is Gladys hey guys for United Airlines can we say that yeah we can shout out to them okay okay she gave me a buddy pass and to me that was that unlocked like my actual musical destiny I get down to Atlanta I sing a hymn blessed assurance oh I knew Angel of Mine by Monica I knew her other songs but Kale and Audition, girl, you sing Blessed Assurance. I got the gig. Of course. To sing Background. Destiny's Child is opening up on that tour. No. Yes. Destiny's Child, no, no, no, no. Bills, bills, bills, bills. Bugaboo. They were the opening act. They were the act where you going to be eating your chips. You walking in with your refreshments. Sometimes an opening act, sometimes people are still coming in. Yes, they're getting in, settling in. They're still getting into the auditorium. At that time, this was an outdoor tour, amphitheater, so people are still kind of settling in and didn't think nothing about it. Now, I like telling this story to young kids. Months later, they're told about me as they're looking for alternate members, some replacements or whatever, however the situation was going at the time. Someone told them about me. I love this story. You always have somebody telling somebody about you. That's fabulous. Let me tell you, be nice to people, show up, do your job, be kind. You might not think anybody is paying attention to you. Somebody is always watching. I didn't think I was the most talented one. Why y'all calling me? And I say that to encourage kids. Like I say, you never know who's watching you. Yeah. And so Miss Tina calls me. You are absolutely extraordinarily talented. But I do like what you said in terms of like talent isn't the only thing that gets us where we are. It's true. Like there's more that comes with it. We know so many talented people, but they're not like pliable. I'm pliable or teachable. I'm not saying I want to change who you are. Yeah. But I would almost work with somebody who can get there, who's got a great head on their shoulders. Every time. Every time. That's just me. Every time. Every time. Y'all don't cancel me because of that. No, that's real. You just never know what to say nowadays. I know. But being a collaborator, knowing how to work with people. That's so good. That's what creates longevity. That is so, so good. I'm still a student. I'm still learning. I love when the associate choreographer to this day comes in my room to give me a note. Sometimes I just make something up. Even if you feel like, you know, I don't need a note. But I love. Tell me. I don't want to be up there. Strong and wrong. Yes. You still can tell me, hey, you was on two. You should be on zero. Right. You was out your light. Please tell me. I'm not that person where you can't tell me anything. Now, you can't tell me how to make my greens, though. You can't tell me how to make my collard greens. She cooks. Don't do that. You be cooking down the house like that? Don't do me. What's your meal? Now, I think the only thing I know how to cook is collard greens. The other day. Now, wait a minute. They're like, she can cook greens? Ooh, she can cook. Right. All you got to do is one item. Yeah. Kind of the only thing. But I made a, like, put a chuck roast in my slow cooker the other day. Ooh. It was good. It was so good. So, it was about 11 o'clock. I went to sleep. And then about 4 o'clock, I turned it off. And I let it warm. Stay warm. Put the warmer on. And it just was so. Ooh, you could just. The fork, it just melted. Ooh. Just go like that with your hand. That's what that chuck roast was doing. And you know what the thing about it is? That can be anything. That could be a chuck roast sandwich. You could do, like, actually get some sides. Because I did put it on some potato bread and had a sandwich before I went to the theater the other day. Yes. Sure did. Went to the theater the other day. Sure did. Yes. Okay, so. Sure did. The tour ends. It's great. Somebody says, hey, Destiny's Child. Mm-hmm. You meet Miss Tina. I meet Miss Tina. Miss Tina and Solange come to pick me up from the airport. I love that they're the ones. They're the ones. Solange is right there. They pick me up from the airport. I didn't really know what to expect. I go in and have a meeting, a good old sit-down. Miss Tina, Beyonce, and Kelly. And they're like, well, just sing something for us. Ha! I sang a good old Negro spiritual called Walk With Me, Lord. Yes! I was like, girl, why are you? Girl, sing. Sing. Say my name. Something. No, I sang Walk With Me. I love that. A gospel song. She's rooted. And grounded. And I didn't know. I was still trying to convince my mom that, Mom, I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go back to school. I said, but if you let me do one more gig, I'm going to buy you that Chrysler 300M that you've been wanting. Back in the day, that was in, what, 1999 to 2000. So she knew about the gigs, but she just thought it was a hobby. Yeah, and wanted. When you don't know or you have an idea of how you think, the industry works, there can be some worry about how are you going to make a consistent living. For sure. Right? You can be bringing in thousands today, and then you might not bring it in for the next year. Which is true. What are you going to do? She wanted me to make sure I had a 401K, dental, vision, health insurance, and a weekly, biweekly salary. That's right. But Destiny's Child ended up, they was like, oh, this, oh, y'all for real. And it happened so fast. The videos, the award shows, the tours, all so many opportunities. And I have to say that I'm glad that I followed my heart. I prayed about it. I felt a release from God, like, go forward with this. And that was the year 1999 with Monica, and then the year 2000, Destiny's Child. Yeah, and I don't know a Destiny's Child. Obviously, I do now, but I didn't know growing up a Destiny's Child where it wasn't you three. Like, I didn't always know or remember the other. I found out about it as I got older, but you were the Destiny's Child that I, you know. So, yep, originally, Beyonce, Kelly, LaToya, and LaTavia, the original members, and then before them, there was a whole other, you know, sprinklings and, you know. And so how did it feel for you coming into something that already did have iteration? How did you build the stamina? You know, because maybe, I don't know how much, you know, if they were one of your favorite groups or whatever, but did you really think about that when you took on that role? I think working in so many different auxiliaries in my church helped me to just get in there. Yeah. What do y'all need? I literally came in to serve. There was something about Beyonce and Kelly that I loved. Even after my first meeting, I said, if I don't, if this doesn't move forward, I can say that I met two people. Two of the sweetest girls in the world. I was, I put that in the back of my head. If I don't see them again, cool. But it was something about their dream. Something about me saying, how can I help? I wasn't going, it's like me coming in your house. This is already set. Right. I'm not here to change it. What do you need from me? How can I add? What do you want me to do? How can I, let's go. Y'all good? We ready? Okay, let's go. It hasn't changed. It has not changed since. I finally felt cemented during the Destiny Fulfilled era. Yeah. What do you mean when you say cemented? What did that mean to you? Kind of like I'm planted, I'm grounded. This was all new. Yeah. It was still new and it was happening all so fast. But I felt welcomed by them. But there are so many moving parts. It's you're in the industry. Y'all just ain't friends, girlfriend. It's a whole thing. Oh, yes. You know, that I had to. And I think that's what I meant. I think I felt like, okay, you have a place. Yeah, and you understood some of the terrain. Yes, absolutely. Because, I mean, you guys also, like, there's one side of the industry with artists where we do music videos, we show up, we do performances, we put the albums together, we do the recordings. But then there's also something that's been a huge part. A huge part of Beyonce's career and Destiny's Child as a whole is touring. Touring. Y'all tour. I don't think people understand how difficult it is to tour. I don't really. I love being with the fans, but the constant picking up and going and moving. That is. Like, we'll see the interviews with y'all and y'all be in Japan somewhere and y'all like. Listen. Okay. There, by the way, there is one interview where we did and people think we're high. I know the one. I promise y'all. Matthew and Tina Knowles was not playing that. We were not under the influence of any substance. Y'all was exhausted. We were tired. Oh, yeah. Tired. Tired and grateful. Ah! Come on, call back. No, we were really tired. Y'all, I promise you. There were no edibles. It was literally jet lag. Yeah. Yeah, we were delusional. You could see it. I mean, obviously you can't see it in the performances because you guys always killed it, but seeing those interviews and also having the retrospect and understanding that as we're older, it's kind of like, damn, them girls was really working. Y'all were 20, you was 20 years old. And then some people would try it in interviews, and then there are times we couldn't hide it. Yeah. Media training is great, but when you're tired or you're feeling disrespected, you can't hide it. No, it's so true. It's like. Because why are you playing with me? All right. No, seriously. People call you the queen of bridges. Yeah. How do you feel with that recognition? Oh, I love it. I love it. I want to be on Bridgerton. Okay. OK, because I don't know. Can you just imagine me in that amazing wardrobe just sinking bridges? Oh, my gosh. Come on, over troubled water. Yo, that is. Yes. And I really I love that. You know, I love how what what we've evolved to in the recent years because of social media. Yes. And how people are discovering things. People are discovering, you know, my contribution. Yeah. And viciously and the appreciative of you. I'm like, y'all are. Y'all love me. OK. Y'all love me. I mean, you guys really are our destiny's child. Like y'all really are. We love all. Like it's such a special I can't imagine being representing. I mean, for us, you guys are the Supremes. It's like it is defining in pop culture. And do you when you look back on it in retrospect for you in the time, did you guys know that you were doing it? Was there do I ever have talks where it's like we are going to change the game and that it was it kind of like, let's just have fun. And damn, did we change the game? Let's have fun. Let's try to get some sleep for you. I mean, it was so fast. I don't I don't name dropping interviews, but I'm going to name drop Janet Jackson. We saw her in like the Netherlands or something for an award show. And she said, this goes by so quickly. Make sure every day you're present. You take it in because so much is a blur. It's true. It you get it. It's it's so much is a blur. And so you have to try to be present. I've been to Paris so many times. I've never been. I've never been to the Eiffel Tower. Yeah, because you're so sleepy or the itinerary. Yes, space for you to go. And Celine Dion in her documentary, she spoke about this. She said, I've seen the world, but I've seen nothing at all. Oh, you know what I mean? Because you're traveling all these places, you're doing all these different things, but you're not really embodying the experience. I'm going to do that more. I was in Paris in February. Still didn't go to the Eiffel Tower. You know, but I. It ain't all that. I didn't have I didn't have much time. Now I've been to Paris in Las Vegas, though. Oh, my God. Come on. That makes me think of that movie Paris, Texas, Paris, Paris, Texas. What they do with a Paris in Texas. And I wanted to tell you, it's funny you should say that. I was like, the world don't play about you either. Oh, we we don't play about Kiki. We don't play about you. It is so. Thank you so much. It is so. It is just I'm sure you feel the same way. It is just great when your community. Feels you feels you and you feel them to see you. And I think people know the real I appreciate moments where maybe I felt like I failed or maybe I felt vulnerable in certain situations and they they paused. It's almost like they paused with me. Oh, you know, when when somebody in church messes up, they're like, take your time, baby. That's all right, baby. Let the Lord use you. You go get it together, sweetie. That's what I feel like people are for me. For real. It's all right, sweet sugar. I literally feel that exact same vibe. Even at my age, I'll be 47. I still feel. Girl, when? I still feel like the little girl where they're like, it's all right, baby. And they tap you on your little, you know, on your little back. That just split my wig and I ain't got it on. That's crazy. 47 girl. OK. I'm proud. I'm proud to say it. You know what? It's because you look like this. I'm proud of it. We work out. We drink. I try to drink water. I try to mind my business. Although I'm nosy. I'm very nosy. I ain't going to hold you. But very sweet with my tea. It's never bitter and nasty. I don't, I'm not, I'm not low down like that. We read. We research. Come on. And we get into it. But it's like, girl, stop playing. I'm not nosy. I'm just researching. So tell me, girl, what did he do? He said, I know you lying. Girl, I heard it. I heard that. I'm good on it. I've been hurt that. What happened again? Girl, I've been hurt that, though. You. You can't tell me none. I knew that about them a long time ago. Yes. But you know, it's something that, but I get to the root of them. I love getting to the root. And I try to go psychological. Don't let me start pathologizing or pathologizing. You know whatever they say. Now, because of therapy and wellness, are you always discerning people? You know, I love what you had just said prior. Relationships as well. Where I'm trying not to pathologize folks and be like, and this is exactly why when you was five and that's why you this way today. Like, I try. Not because it's like, girl, I'm not, I ain't did the, I ain't did the schoolwork for that. I turned into a fixer, but I do try to understand so that I don't carry on the impact of whatever I experienced with them. So good. You know, so I guess it's more so for us versus trying to fix them or tell them about themselves. It's like, okay, I'm analyzing this about you. I'm not going to tell you what I'm analyzing, but it's helping me deal with you. Deal with you. It's helping me to understand why this isn't about me. That's I've got to do because I actually personalize everything. Girl, everything is always, they hurt me and this happened to me. And it's like, girl, this is just life. That's so good. It's so, but you know, it's hard. We got to do it because I don't want my life messed up because I'm holding on to what you did to me that now I've somehow defined myself by. You said the word personalizing or internalizing things, you know, but betrayal, rejection, abandonment, all these things. And then when you find you're in a situation, let's talk about even, you know, romantic relationships, it can be something that they say and you've personalized it. And they'm like, I just asked you, do you want chunky peanut butter or smooth? Right. And that made you think about when you bumped your head that one time and your mama yelled like, let it go. Like my girl, let it go. I'm a chew smooth, by the way, peanut butter. Okay, go ahead. It depends on my mood. I do like smooth, but every now and then I want a little chunk. People that chunk, they're serial killers. Not pathologized. Just call me Dexter. No, no. That was a good one. That was a good show. I'm just playing. Chunky. Oh, my gosh. Well, that makes me ask now, now we got to talk about love and I got to get into your business. We got to sip some tea with respect to your boundaries. How is the love life going? You've been engaged. You know, you're not no longer, unless you happen to keep it a secret. I need everybody to hear me clearly. You do not need a milestone to enjoy yourself. I said, what? I said. Society has us out here waiting for promotions, engagements, and New Year's Eve to twist open something nice. Meanwhile, I'm over here with a chilled glass of Stella Rosa Black because I remembered to water my plants three days in a row. That's growth, literally. And the flavor, sweet, smooth, rich, bold, deep berry, blackberry, blueberry, raspberry, all sitting together like a Real Housewives reunion where everybody kept their glass in their hand. This is wine for everyone 21 and up who understands that sometimes a celebration is the random Wednesday or the quiet night in or the I finished my laundry and put it all away in one day victory lap. You are the occasion. So please act accordingly. Head to StellaRosa.com to find your favorite flavor. Your next occasion, which is literally whenever you decide, is already taken care of because baby, this is Stella Rosa. And please, please, please. Drink responsibly. Let me walk you through my Tuesday. I woke up and immediately had to decide what to wear to a meeting, what to feed my son, whether I'm taking the call from my car or rescheduling, and it's not even 8 a.m. yet. By noon, I've made a hundred decisions and I'm already over it. So the things in my life that don't require me to think, those are sacred. That's exactly what Fruit of the Loom women's underwear is for me. I open the drawer, I grab a pair. And I already know it's going to be comfortable and fit right. There's no guessing, no adjusting. No, let me try another pair moment. It just works when your whole day is full of decisions that actually need your energy. Having that kind of simplicity in your routine creates real peace of mind. And trust me, that feels really, really good. Fruit of the Loom proves that simple feels really good. This is exactly why I do this podcast. Real conversations, real journeys. And I mean it. I mean, it's Michelle Williams, the queen of bridges herself. I was always going to leave smiling. There is so much more of this to come this season. So make sure you're watching on Spotify. And if you really love somebody, tell them to subscribe to Spotify Premium, where there are no ads on the show. Just the good stuff. Okay, so I've decided that you all will possibly see me with, I'll probably be a grandmother before you'll know it. I won't tell you. I learned my lesson. Listen, you ain't got to tell, you say I ain't going to hold you. It is a thing for us with the whole public thing. If you see me with somebody, mind your business. Yeah, because, I mean, how do you feel about that as a public figure? Because I go back and forth. I've had people in my life that are in the industry that's like, they're bold with it. They believe in flaunting their relationship. They believe in, you know, it's not a thing for them. And then I have other people that are in our industry that have said, keep your man, keep your thing. I won't hide it. Like, I'm not going to be asking for a private room at a restaurant or I'm not going to not walk down the street with someone. But I think I'll be very careful on personally posting things or doing reality shows. That seems so scary. It was wrong. Now, some things you got to take accountability for. I can't blame nobody else. There are certain decisions that I made that I would not do again. Sure. And especially the audacity thing that you're going to be the different one. And I'm trying to figure out for relationships, for reality shows, I could be wrong. How has it worked out for people? This is me sighing and thinking and trying to go down the scoreboard, you know. And people do it for a myriad of reasons. We did it because we thought we could show people something. Yeah. You know, but and just no love lost to him. Yeah. And his family. But again, I'll be a grandmother. Yeah. Before you. I feel you on that. Where did you even have kids? I'm very much that. Like, you might see us out. But it'll be because you was looking for it. You know, I'm not. I feel that. I feel that way. And I've always felt that way. But I've also found myself. And I think we got to try things on for size. Right. I've found myself saying, well, let me. Maybe I should. And then you realize that doesn't work for me. And it is what it is. And you move on. And even before that, the public engagement. People. I think people even thought I was gay. Right. I just. I kind of. I'm sorry. People thought I was gay. I kind of moved. Now, there are parts of me that I that I felt moved a little masculine, though. I'm getting mad. I'm a little gay. There's that. Listen. And please don't take offense. Me say. Oh, no. I just didn't believe in like really being public or going public unless like we were a thing. Yes. So that's just how I move. Like you. You can't even get my truck. Yeah. Also, I think. And I felt like when I grew up, the masculine, the men that I knew, you didn't introduce nobody to anybody, even in the family. There was no social media until you felt like this is something. Yeah. Even if it didn't work. Out, you felt like there was something special for me to bring you to my family. Yes. That little friend thing, you know, who's this little friend? You know, it's very careful. Who does everybody know? And you know what I mean? It becomes a lot. Yeah. You've talked so much. I also talk a lot about mental health. I love how honest and open you are with that, especially being a spiritual person coming from the church, because a lot of times there's this idea where sometimes praying is just going to do. And sometimes you need more support. Like it's like, of course, I'm a pray. Of course, I have faith. But like, how can I find resources around me? And so. I want to know from you when we're talking about touring, being caught up in just having all this workload and those moments of being like, am I present? Am I in my body? When did you have that moment of checking back in and actually becoming aware of how your scenario was impacting you? Oh, I think my first therapy session was 2011 ish, 12 ish, officially. Yeah, yeah. And. And I felt OK with therapy because I heard Miss Tina always championing therapy. And I remember my first session seeing I thought I thought if you went to therapy, you had to have a certain look. Yeah, for sure. It was visible why you need therapy. Maybe you were exhibiting some type of behavioral issues, issues or responses to circumstances. But no, I saw people that look like. You and I fast forward to 2018 when I checked myself into a treatment facility for a depression. Again, I didn't see anybody that looked like they should be there. So I just want to tell people it mental illness does not have a look. I also want to say mental health is not mental illness. We all have the we all have mental health, just like we have cardiovascular health, reproductive health. Yeah, everyone does not have mental illness. Let's clarify that, because I do read a lot of comments when when someone is going through something. And I'll see a comment that says mental health is real. It is. But I think you mean mental illness. Yeah, we all have. Yeah. Mind health, brain health. And it's like you don't go to the doctors once you're already sick. I mean, I miss maybe some people do. But it's like the whole hope is that, you know, you're doing those little checkups and they could be anything. It could be therapy. It could be I need to go be with my family. I encourage people. I encourage people to just try and your first therapist. It might not be a match, but therapy isn't always to process trauma, doom and gloom. It could be the process transition. Yeah. Or there's life coaching. You feel stuck. Yes. Coaching helps you get over a certain hurdle. I mean, somebody's told me about a divorce coach. Oh, wow. It coaches you in divorce. I've even heard most recently, which I think is very interesting, is not therapy in the regard of just, you know, what we're thinking about on. On the surface, but like working with neuroscientists on your cognitive profile. Absolutely. To understand the way that you receive information and so that you're better to understand what works for you cognitively. Now we're going to really be a neuroscientist. Dr. Caroline Leaf is amazing. And she has she taught me about neuroplasticity and how we have the power to change our actual brains just by our thoughts. Yes. What we think. What we consume. What we meditate on. All right. It's so good. This part, we got to do part two. Okay. It's so good. That's why I love practices like Pilates as well, because they offer that same thing where they can help support changing neural pathways. Absolutely. And so it's just like, again, all those things. When we talk about value, we talk about money. When we talk about where we want to put our investment, like, you know, sometimes it is great. Like we're saying, love a good shoe. Love a nice, comfortable look. Love getting this hair done. And those are part of it. Right. But then there's also this stuff, too, that I feel like is priceless. But it also is costly. Knowing about them, having the resources to get to them. And I really like, I don't know, I just love that because these are also these are the things that really once they help, once they come, they don't just stay on the outside. Absolutely. You're building on the inside. And people talk about being able to afford mental health resources there. If you're in college. During certain, I don't know if it's both semesters where you can get a certain amount of free therapy, depending on the university you go to or your job, your insurance will help you find, you know, therapists. I tell people also go to psychologytoday.com. You can filter if you want black, white, female, male, unclassified, whatever it is you want to find. I just I would just just try it once. Mm hmm. You know, counseling, something to help you just unpack certain things that you don't have to carry. Yeah. I mean, you wrote your book, Checking In, How Getting Real About Depression Saved My Life and Can Save Yours. Congratulations on that. Thank you. You open up about depression, obviously, and anxiety and what those things can look like, because a lot of times I think we don't know when we are depressed. Like you talk about functioning but not living. Absolutely. How did that show up for you? Oh, I think in tears, sometimes it can just look like we don't think it's irritability. You think it's PMS. No, irritability can be a missed symptom or they're all no irritability. Not wanting to get up. You know, you feel like it's a way I've one time I felt like I had a weighted blanket on me. I mean, I'm just and recently as of twenty twenty four, I really thought I was depressed and my iron levels were just slow. OK, let me just get those supplement. The vitamins is real. I just want to say that my iron and ferritin was very low. I just want to say that, too. So check with your doctors, too. It might not be depression. It might be just certain things in your blood, things going on that are that are very low. Fatigue, loss of interest. And then and then the ideation of suicide, like playing my funeral, knowing what it looked like, knowing who I wanted to speak. Now, 80 years from now. OK, I want you to cremate me and sprinkle me in front of the original Popeyes. OK, the original, the real one in New Orleans. And don't play. My parents, actually, they fell in love. They met first met in New Orleans and they went to pop. They had Popeyes for the first time. Isn't that so? I mean, Popeyes is special. That was a period of time where I don't play with it anymore. If I if I'm feeling close to burnout, burnout sometimes because you're just saying yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Because you feel bad for letting someone down. Yeah. The other thing that I think people got to think about, too, with this burnout thing is burnout. If you have a high capacity. Looks like. Yes. - It do. - Shh. - It do. - You too want it. like girl put your foot down why you look like a rigor mortis she high function and depression people need to know that because burnout a lot of times it doesn't look like it doesn't that you burned out it's like you're you're almost too good listen one there's a period of time even after my hospitalization I thought I was right I thought I was rising and my therapist who is a psychologist and a professor now a psychiatrist can diagnose sure your therapist really ain't supposed to but because they've been around they can kind of guess so I'm just all excited thinking I'm making progress I said oh my gosh doctor so if you had to diagnose me today what would you say I'm thinking she's gonna say girl you're doing good she said high function and depression what oh gagged me you what? Because I had come back. I was doing well. But she was observing things that I was saying or doing or emotionally, and she was like, she literally was like, high-functioning depression. First of all, that acting is so good. Whoever that, I know that lady. That's exactly what she did. Into her vibe. Now, it's not an official diagnosis. Sure, sure. There is no, but, you know, it looks like going and going and going, that smile on your face, you know, because the other spectrum of depression is the sadness. Yes, yes. I can't say their sadness has life, life, but I've known how to recover and bounce back and be resilient. Yes, but you still have. I was like, what? Yeah. Gag me down. It's so important because a lot of times it doesn't look the way people think. But if you're lacking recall, if you can't remember moments of your life, if you're having blackouts. Come on. Not, oh, how did I get here? That's that. Yep. That's that. That's that. Oh, we can keep going. Or, you know you got to get up and go to work, and you lay around until the very last minute. Because, girl, now you've got five minutes to get there. People are probably listening to me and like, that's me every day. Should I be worried? Because I think everybody is a little bit. In a time right now, and look, we've probably always been there. Maybe we're just in a time of deep meta-awareness, where we're just talking about the things that we've been experiencing out loud in pop culture has become a thing. But we're all, we've all become so hyper-vigilant, so hyper-functional. Absolutely. Because, first of all, we're all being watched. Even if you're not an entertainer. If you've got a social media page, you're being watched. And by the way, your life could be on the line. If you say the wrong thing. If you say the wrong thing at the wrong time. And now everything you say is a speech. You've got to sit there like Barack Obama getting ready to go and talk to the national press. I mean, I had anxiety. I have anxiety about interviews. Girl! Because I'm like, I care. So if I'm passionate and something comes out, I don't mean it. And it's like, you've got to wait. It's like Rihanna in that meme. Everybody and all the who's and hey's and everyone that knows and loves. Because you just don't want to get it wrong. You just don't want to get it wrong. You just want people to know your heart. Yeah, so much. And then we'll get the people pleasing. And then we have the other side of the expression, right? Because that's one side, right? There's all the moral signaling that we're seeing online. And I'm such a good person. You see? You see? And the other side is, I hate everybody. Because you know what? I don't want to be God. So now I'm just going to be angry and mean and nasty. And it's like, because I kept it real from day one. I told y'all. You know? Yeah. So it's like we have these two sides of the spectrum where we have. We have people that are feeling like, ah, ah, ah, ah. Then we have the other side where we say, well, it's all going to go to hell anyway. It's like trying to find this in-between of dealing with this pressure. And from the beginning, when social media came, and I loved social media, and I loved being able to talk, but I immediately said, well, I need to do something because this world is a little too much of an echo chamber. And it's creating something. How do we take this off to digital and bring it somewhere? That's good. And so I'm really. I'm happy that, you know, I can at least have these conversations. That people can listen to these conversations because it's like a lot. Please listen to the conversations and go back and grab the piece of you that's left. Nurture them. All right? That's right. And just nurture them. Take time away from social media. Now, I need y'all to be on social media so you can know when my episode with Kiki come out. Now, I'm going to tell you that. Yes, and know about Coming to See You In Depth Becomes Her Own Broadway. Congratulations again. I'm so excited to see the show. It's been a great time, I can imagine. Thank you. You're keeping us updated. It is great. Eight shows a week. We are still here in New York City. Fabulous. Weekly. I'm literally looking out at the audience, having a moment of gratitude. Like, wow, y'all are still showing up, continue to show up. We want to be here as long as we can. How's your diet? I only ask how's your diet because, you know, the pressure on The Voice doing that Broadway. I couldn't have no yeast. I couldn't have nothing, you know. I think when I was doing Aida. What? Were you doing Cinderella? Yes. I think you were doing. This is way back in 2003. Y'all, we go way back in this thing. So listen, I had coffee yesterday because it was a two-show day. I'm not supposed to have any caffeine. When I tell you the way my throat dried out, I was struggling. I had to do the whole vocal thing and get some humidity and do all the things. So no dairy during the week. My cheat day is like. Sunday slash Monday afternoon. And lots of rest. The time change has been kicking my gluteus maximus. Yeah, why did it shake us up so bad, that time change? It really did shake us all up. It's been a struggle for me. I don't know why. But I didn't realize it was the time change until like the day before because apparently before the time change, you're supposed to be adjusting like the week prior. They got too many rules for us. Slow the **** on down. Tell them farmers, let that be daytime. Can't we just move in a time zone where it don't change? That's the only thing I can think of. It's so crazy. I'll just be in Phoenix for the rest of my days. Oh my. Because I don't think Phoenix changes. Why they get to do that? I don't think Phoenix, Arizona, that's. The daylight savings, not them. I don't think they change. Wow. Lucky Phoenix. I don't know what else is there other than that. No shade. No shade. You tried. It's dry though. You right. Okay. Let's get into this game. I always do a game at the end with all my guests. And so this one's called sing it or cut it. Okay. I'm going to give you two Destiny Child songs. Oh, don't do that. You can either cut one or save the other or you can keep both, but you got to sing a little bit of your favorite part of the song. Okay. Okay. Say my name or survivor. Oh, say my name. I wouldn't even know say my name. Say my name hits, but I'm a survivor. I'm a survivor. Survivor is great. By the way, someone came to the show. Yesterday it was like, I love you, Michelle. I'm a survivor. I'm like, yo, it's theater too, bro. If I surround myself with positive things. Yes, girl. You came in like, I know. And I guess besides independent women, survivor, I should have picked survivor because that was the first time where, you know, you could hear my voice, but say my name. I mean, you listen to that today. Yeah. Yeah. That, oh, it. What's the name? Just did Ella May. She just did a little, um, interpolation. By the way, shout out to y'all making, I don't know, maybe Beyonce and Kelly don't fit away, but shout out to y'all sampling stuff, making me feel. I live for the sampling. I do. Every now, especially if they redo, you know, they really give it new life. Absolutely. Cater to you or girl. Girl. Cause why was she? Jelly's been lying to you. Girl. If my friend was screaming in my face like that, I'm like, shut up. I love him. Girl. This song is so good. I think because of the musicality, I will go with girl. It's so good. Yeah. It's so good. I mean, cater to you, obviously, iconic. Cater to you is amazing. I mean, they're both iconic. That's why it's hard. Cater to you is beautiful. And then people are like, I ain't putting, I'm not doing that for no, I ain't doing that for that. You do it for the person. You do it for the person you love that make you feel like you want to cater to them. I was definitely one of those people. I ain't doing it for, we've all been there. We've all catered. Rub that man's corny feet. Bills, bills, bills. Or jumping, jumping. Don't keep it jumping, jumping. Can you bang my bills? This is how the girls is today. They want that **** aid. Right? That was like, I done went from independent women to soft life. Like, oh my gosh, this is so funny. It's hard being independent. Get me soft. Okay. Sheesh, I'm tired of taking the trash out. Oh my gosh, that is so funny. Michelle, you should have people to do that for you. I don't. Yeah. I don't. I take it right to the trash chute. Or my home in Georgia, I have to take it to the curb and do. Oh my gosh. I hate that whole taking it to the curb gag. Come on. But hey, it's life, you know. What could you do? You do. Okay, which one? You have to choose. Oh, I didn't pick. Blah, blah, blah, or jumping, jumping. See, I want to be at home, so I'm going to go with Bills, Bills, Bills. Period. I love that. The way these legs are crossed. Ladies, the man on the club is Phil Hunter, and the party's still growing. I'm home. Boom. I'm home. Okay. Lose My Breath, A Soldier. Oh, dang. Ooh, it's them drums in Lose My Breath that get me every time. Soldier, I live for. I mean, I just live for also the video. I need a thing, and I want to find a free thing. We got to bring Kiki on in, Destiny's Child. You hear me? I need to do a damn parody. Uh-oh, on my Weird Al Yoko bitch. Come on. Do it. I got to feel it. I approve. I'm actually on some new stuff. I approve, sis. I approve. Do it. Ooh. Okay, last one. Nasty Girl or T-shirt. Ooh. They're going to be like, oh, did the podcast stop? I like T-shirt. It's so sensual. Aw. Okay, she's a sensual girl. You are, Leo. They're very naughty. Keeks. I go to Sunday school. You are absolutely amazing. Amazing. Girl, my feet was kicked up. It's been a joy. It's been a joy. Y'all, when I tell you, look at these shoes, honey. Come on, they're giving you some Greek goddess type of. I'm here for. I don't know why I chose these, but hey. I am here for you. I'm here for you, girl. No, seriously. I'm here for you. Do they ever, do people ever confuse you with the white Michelle Williams? Absolutely. I get her fan mail. Oh, my gosh. I get her fan mail, and sometimes I sign it and give a, and put a picture of me in it and say, this is me. Imagine her showing up there like. Bitch. But she, she has done. Where is Michelle Williams? She, they probably have, and I'm like, I'm going to give you life. I opened the show, so if you was expecting the other Michelle, you're going to be like, I'm in. You're good. But I was able to meet her. Oh, so yummy. I know she told you the same thing that people be thinking. She gets, she gets, she gets fan mail. I've gotten. That is so cute. Things in the mail that were supposed, that were supposed to be for her. Oh, my gosh. Certain, certain calls. I think, I don't, I don't know how true this is, but apparently, I think she went to a concert, and they were expecting me, and then she pulls up. Oh, my gosh. Mm-hmm. I would have loved to got, you know, backstage, because they thought I was Michelle Williams. I know. I was going on stage. Oh, my gosh. I would have spayed my ass back there. But I, I absolutely adore her. I think she's very talented. She is talented. Very talented. But Kiki, I want you to come to see Death Becomes Her. I'm coming. And I, I appreciate you. I appreciate. I appreciate who you are to this world, the contribution of joy and light that you bring. I can't imagine that it's always easy, but because of your heart, that's how you're able to get through. So, I appreciate you. I'm here. I'm, I don't want to be auntie, but I'm big sis. I'm your big cousin. I'm, I'm here. I adore you. That means the world to me. I really adore you, and I feel the same about you, and I just feel like God is what holds us up. Yes. And so, I love you. I love when we can have a praise session and get down into it. But I will be honest. Anytime that I've been around you, Beyonce, or Kelly, it's a little bit too much. Why? What'd we do? Because. Help me, more help me. I am starstruck. Can you hear my tea? I am star, so it's very, I'm always like, you know, because I mean, you guys are you guys. You guys are you guys. So, you know, just know that. And you are Kiki. You are Kiki. You are Kiki Palmer. The Kiki Palmer. Okay. I love you so much. I love you back. It is so refreshing to hear someone be real about their journey, what it took to face it, get help, and grow through it. And I think what Michelle's story shows is it's not just about what you go through. It's about what you choose after. She did the work to heal, and is now helping other people to find their way, too, and that's powerful. If we're going to take anything from this conversation, let it be we don't have to keep performing through our lives. We can check in, choose ourselves, and start again. All right, you guys. I'll see you next time on Baby, This is Kiki Palmer. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer, yeah.