MICHELLE ONG: THE JEWELLERY QUEEN OF HONG KONG

This episode is brought to you by LiBish, the colour diamond jewellery experts. Did you know that pink diamonds are amongst the rarest diamonds and over 90% came from the Argal mine in Australia which closed in 2020? I think apart from the beauty of the stone is that you know what is symbolisers. I mean with so many years from the ground you know how it rolls you know for millions of years you know how it's naturally formed. It means something. I mean it shows strength, it shows commitment. I'm Carol Hulton, the voice of jewellery. Welcome to if jewells could talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and a woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realise they like jewellery and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people, delving into four centuries of jewellery culture and investigate what's happening now. I'm very pleased to be here with Michelle Ong. Michelle is a philanthropist and business woman but today we're talking to her as the co-founder of the jewellery house Karney. Michelle is quite simply acknowledged as one of the greatest names in high jewellery today. Her light as a whisper, diamond creations with a unique blend of Chinese and Western culture, crystallised natural forms with invisible mastery and through that she's created a new iconography and somebody who in her book Karney, the master of our period, Jewell Rosenthal, was happy to write the forward and pay homage to her work, saying her and they evoke my myth of the orient. Michelle, thank you so much for joining us today. Carol is my pleasure to be here and thanks for having me. Basically, I had to entice Michelle to London by asking her to exhibit her jewels in a show that I curated at the David Gill Gallery because you haven't been in London for a while, have you? Well, not for a number of years actually, it's been almost seven years. Seven years. But nobody can resist her, nobody can refuse you, Carol. So Michelle came over from Hong Kong where she lives and works. Can you tell us about the importance of culture in your jewelry, Michelle? Well, I think Jewry is a wonderful art form that I think is intrinsic to the human experience. It connects us through history, cultures, place and time. I think we've always been motivated to make and wear Jewry's assembles and artistic expressions. So Jewry both captures, reflects and builds on art and culture basically. And what about the Chinese cultural influence that we see in your jewelry? Is that important to you to express the Chinese culture? I think it's very important because it's a natural experience. Actually, it's important in the sense that it's a natural expression of myself. I'm Chinese. I grew up in Hong Kong. I was born and raised in Hong Kong and I lived through the colonial times. So it's always a mix of East and West. So it comes naturally to me. It's not something that I need to dig in or to try to make it work, basically. So you have motives like dragons, the five elements of Chinese philosophy, wood far metal earth and mortar? I just love the connection that Jewry provides to the broad natural world and to our inner world of meaning, aspiration, beauty and love. I think there's a timelessness and energy in both aspects. Through choosing and through collecting Jewry we celebrate. We remember and we make new memories and preserve the past. Do you think there's the fact that you have been brought up in Hong Kong? Do you think somehow you view a cloud? For instance, your beautiful cloud pieces or fans? Do you view that differently? Do you think that a Western eye? It's a child I always love to daydream. So I think wherever I am, we are surrounded by nature. Whether it's the sky or whether it's flowers, whether anything actually. I think how we view things is all within oneself. The way I see clouds or whether you see clouds, I think it's not connected to time or space. I think it's how we look at things. How we look at shapes, how we look at even a flower, how we look at the leaf. I think it's within oneself. So I think it's not set in sort of a time or space. So tell me what I think people would love to know how you started, Michelle. You studied in Canada at the University of Toronto. What were you studying? I studied sociology, which seems nothing to do with Jewry, but actually I found it very useful. You studied sociology, you studied people, you studied what's around you, and it helped me to sort of connect with people. And then you returned to Hong Kong. And what was the first experience that you had that you noticed Jewry? Actually, I just stumbled on it basically. When I went back, I thought, "Mmm, is it?" I didn't go into basically being a social worker, and I was offered to go into banking, actually. Then a family friend who was the first important of diamonds in Hong Kong, you know, sort of said, "Oh, my son is leaving Hong Kong, "which you like to come into business." And coming from a medical family, I just jumped at it. I said, "Oh, I'll sound very interesting. No, nothing about it." But it sounded very glamorous. Then, of course, when you knew so you have to learn a lot of things about stones and properties, it's not only glamour, but it's a lot of hard work, but that's how we started. So it wasn't glamorous, it was a lot of hard work. It's a lot of hard work, because actually he was a diamond wholesaler. And we learned about the properties of stones. But it was fascinating, it's not that it's hard work, but it's not about glamour, it's about knowing what you're dealing with. And it's a business. It's a business. Diamonds, precious stones, and how I learned from the basics. But he was my friend, my family friend, and my boss was not really into designing. He said that he was the old school, you know, "Oh, don't do designing, and this, and that." So we basically do wholesaling. Then after a while, I really was looking into trying to create. So that's how I found that carne in 1998 with my business partner, Avina. So you started designing then, and then you wanted to do it on your own? Yes, I started designing on the sideline as a hobby, to have a little fun things, and my friend started to ask about it and asked me to design for them, and wanted the few things that I did, so that's how it started. And was that all with diamonds at that time? At that time, yes. And was that when you learned to love Rose cut diamonds? Actually, it was a bit later when I had my partnership with Avina and with carne. And I discovered Rose cut. Because in the commercial world at that time, you know, people didn't really, in the wholesale business, they were not really into Rose cut. But it's throughout, I mean, I don't know exactly where's the point. I know after I started carne, I discovered Rose cut. And always, I love, you know, workmanship and design, and you go through all the old jewelry houses and this and that. It was, of course, you know, predominantly Rose cut in the 1920s and 30s. And I just fell in love with it. And actually, when I started, people say, you know, what's Rose cut? They don't shine. Really? So, yeah, that's predominantly, I mean, we were talking about, you know, many years ago. They're much 19 cut. Yes, but I always love it because I felt it was very romantic, soft. And it shines in a different way. And it allowed me to, I think, you know, to make big pieces without being loud. And I always say big pieces can be quiet too. So, this is quite elegant. And we were very brave. We went into a whole production of Rose cut. Initially, when you started carne. Exactly. So, when we bought the goods, we assaulted all the colors and we recut. Because at that time, since it was not so accessible, Rose cut. So, you really have to do a piece, you know, have to be same make, same cut, same color. So, we were very brave. It was really an uncharted territory, actually. So, Avy is your business partner. Avy is a stone specialist who buys and sells stones. Do you think that's really important in your success to have you as the creative and Avy running the business side of the stones? To me, it's totally essential and make my life much easier. Because to this day, Carol, I don't even know how to go to the safe. Seriously, I can't even open the door because the alarm will go off. So he took it for the business side. I mean, he buys all the stones. Of course, you know, we decide together, you know, whether I could use it or not use it. And really, I can concentrate on the artistic side. Actually, our roles were very clear. I'm the creative head, focusing on over a vision, design craftsmanship, and he handles the rest. So this partnership is really perfect. You probably spend more time with Abby than your husband, ain't you? But actually, when you see the two sides on the office, and you come to my office, you come to my, my thing, you will see that we are very segregated. Because when I talk to you, it's like you're sort of long-married couple. Oh, you're spikering together. Oh, yeah, yeah. Totally. Because my husband, you know, that's why he's my husband. He doesn't pick up with me. Just Abby does. He just logs a sort of, okay, whatever. And so Abby trusts your creative vision. Yeah, he has no choice. He hasn't got much. No, no, no, but it was really, it's perfect. But sometimes also he's very patient with me because sometimes when we're together, we say we see something and we see a stone. I say, oh, I absolutely got to have this because I already got the idea. But after we bought it and said, oh, I'm not sure it works. So sometimes we dump it in the safe for one or two years. Okay. So we have to be very tolerant. And will he guide you? If you say, oh, I'm looking for particular cuts of emeralds. And he might then say, no, no, no, they're too expensive on the market right now. Michelle, replace them with something else. No, I think then there's a different thing. If I want an emerald, we say that we cannot afford it. So, okay, forget about this idea, we move on to something else. Okay. We cannot just find something to do. It's never good to have second best. So you stick to your first idea of what you want to be. And I'm also very stubborn. And it's been a remarkably successful partnership. Do you think all jury designers really should have a business partner? I don't know. Carol is very individual. I like it. I don't know for some other people. Because as I said, a partnership is not easy, where there's a life partner, where there's a business partner, you know, you have always have ups and downs and you have to be more forgiving and not very calculating. It doesn't matter. I mean, go through hard times, good times to share. I think that's the main thing. But you're very confident. You see, I think if other people had hard times, they might question themselves. And you don't question. You're very confident in what you want and how you see things. I think I made that way. I have no choice. So even, you know, whatever it is, I seem to want to do the impossible. And sometimes I get away with it and that keeps me going. Yeah. Where there's my business, my foundation or what not, is that. I have crazy ideas and I just go through it. Do you ever go with Avi to buy stones or you leave that to him? No, no, no. We did many trips and we went to India. We went to a lot of places. Yeah. We bought together. And what did you buy in India, particularly? The good old times we used to go every year because they have old stones, old emerales, freshers stones. Well, fun. We were in Mumbai. We went to Jaipur, went to a few. We used to do a lot of trips. And you probably have a lot stashed in your safety. We have some. Hopefully we would have sold some. So now you don't sketch to you. Actually, I don't sketch in the traditional or more formalised way. Because, you know, luckily I have my own Atelier. So basically I just can create visual impressions of pieces. And I always, if we put it in my little notebook and that's how Karne comes about, you know, my ideas and things in the little notebook. And then what you go to the craftsman, I go to the craftsman because, as I said, you know, luckily I have my own. So I work with them, you know, throughout every step, details to create pieces directly from my impressions. So you write the impressions down and then explain exactly. Yeah. And I go with them step by step, you know, how I wanted to be executed. Because I know exactly what I want for myself and for Karne. And you see it in your head. Yes. It just comes to you. The jewel comes to you. Yes, sort of fully formed in your head. Well, sometimes it's fully formed. You thought it's fully formed, but you know, you sort of have a little bit of adjustment along the way. Sometimes in your mind you say, "Oh, you're sure, but you drug the process." You might think, "Oh, maybe there's might be a better way." Well, sometimes it's just go very slowly. It's very hard to say what is exciting is that, you know, it's not something is cast in stone. I mean, it's a process. So that's why it's exciting. And sometimes what you imagine may not be what it turns up totally the same. So that keeps me going. Yes. So you don't quite know. And it's still an adventure. You know and you don't know. What is the fun thing? So when you started, was there something you wanted to change about the way women were wearing jewelry or the type of jewelry that people wore? What did you envision you wanted carne to be and why it would be different? I think I have to admit is very self-indulgent. Is that I first of all think how would like to wear jewelry myself? What would I like? So that's why you see that I have a lot of day jewelry and also a lot of, you know, big pieces. So it's how you live then because you want to wear those I call them pebbles. You kind of turn up your nose when I say pebbles. They're beautiful, sort of dumb and studied, designed earrings that just fit beautifully on the lobes. And then in the evening you wear the big pieces. Yes. Exactly. And also I feel that nowadays, you know, many women buying their own jewelry. I think they're confident. I mean, before I think people would say they're, oh, you have the somebody else to buy the jewelry for them, but actually it's not actually a lot of my clients are they buy their own jewelry. And with that and also in the business world now, they go to meetings, they're not afraid to wear jewelry, which was not the case many years back. So I think we have to, you know, basically, I think it's very important the wearability of pieces. You're right. Yes. That's the point of it. I think that's it. And you have to enjoy. And now, Jury has become a part of me. And hopefully it's a part of my clients. So actually the funny thing is that I started designing Jury halfway. It's because my client said that, you know, I can't find something to match because, you know, my Jury Jewish is quite soft and feminine and usually before, I mean, they were, you know, it's very different sensibility to watches. But then it's very functional. And an item you still want to keep time. So that's why it inspired me to do my collection of watches, of diamond watches. And when I think of Jury, I do think of diamonds. Is that your favorite stone? I think diamond is the most neutral. I do do also other color storms, you know, all sorts, tummolines, wimile, paraheba. But I always like to use diamonds, you know, as the neutral element. Because what is good is so versatile, it can be on its own or it can combine with many other colors. I love it the way you create these lacy patterns. It's almost like organe or silk or some lovely fluid fabric. You make the diamonds and how you set them and using the rose cuts. It is like a sort of piece of gorgeous twinkling lace. I think, thanks, Harold, because I think that was the whole idea. You see, you see, you see thousands and thousands of pieces of Jury. I think we realize one thing is what they show on pictures is very different that when you touch it, when you feel it, when you wear it. So I mean, that's the difference. So I created this to make sure that every little link is flexible. So it's part of you. So it's nothing like very hard or but in pictures it's different to see. That's why I say it's very hard for me to see that. It's very important for people to just buy, you know, through the internet or what do you call this internet? Yes. Yes. For me, I think it's very interesting. Because you have to try it. I feel, I mean, it has to be part of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's got to be comfortable, otherwise you won't wear it. Do you think it helped that you didn't have a formal Jury training? So you could create and make Jury how you wanted without that sort of the formal ideas of training and conventions that other people have followed? I think totally because when I started doing titanium Jury, you know, 20 years ago, there was 20 years ago, something like that, there was no soldering machine. So that means you have to have a piece, you know, is no casting. So we have to start from scratch. And you know, it's a very piece of very tough material. But I wanted to have volume, gem set, you know, titanium with volume. There was no instrument. I said, I don't care. I told my craftsman is that you get a hammer and hammer the volume for me everything just that. And that's why even to this day is all handmade because I don't like the casting and the bit for myself is that, you know, everything is pre-casted. I like the little human maybe imperfection. So we, how do we wear it? Because we have to use gold on the back to screw on the pins and all this. So even earrings, broaches, any of my titanium pieces, all handmade and you've got little screws in the back. You see is that we screw on the piece of gold, platinum, what not, so that you can, you know, get to wear it. So it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work, but it's worth it. And I read somewhere that you've written that every diamond carries its own story and embodies the beauty and power of life and you tell your clients that the natural diamonds they collect and where connect them with the journey and strength of the diamond. You're basically saying that the diamond itself has a journey, has a remarkable journey which gives the wear a strength. They're connected to it. I think apart from the the beauty of the stone is that you know what is symbolisous. I mean, with so many years from the ground, you know how it rolls, you know, millions of years, you know how it's naturally formed, it means something. I mean, it shows strength, it shows commitment. I think it's also give a very symbol of strength. And what about colored diamonds, Michelle? Do you like using working with colored diamonds? Yes, of course. I mean, there's so many beautiful colors. I mean, what's not to like actually? I mean, as I said, you know, during so much a part of our daily lives, so you obviously want to use it in different ways and you want to match different outfits. Okay, so that's what some of your clients want to match their colored diamonds with their outfits. Yes, and yes, it's in the practical sense, but of course, I mean, when you talk about flowers, when you talk about a lot of natural elements, and then there's a naturally, there's a variety of colors to help you complete the vision. And what is your favorite color, diamond? What color? No, I like blue. Do you? Yeah. I love all sorts of blue. I'm not, I know I'm as a person, you know, of course, pink diamonds are very nice, but no, I'm not a pink person. Although jewelry is incredibly feminine, yes, but not pink, not too girly, girly sort of times. So the blue diamonds, and the way you wear your diamond jewelry, it really lights your face, and it does illuminate. Do you notice that in yourself and do you notice it when your clients wear it, that the diamonds reflect? It's, it's, you, you really got the point that because for me, it's very important that they are complimentary to, to a person who wears it. And also, also, our angled, actually, I always have a left and right ear. That's the little details that go into it to make sure that it frames the face perfectly. So they can't be interchangeable, and I know this because I've bought from you. Yeah. If you're not saying attention in the morning, you have to put them on different days. No, no, I am so obsessed with this is sometimes, you know, and you know, sometimes it's happened to me that a very, very important client came in with a big pair of earrings, and suddenly, which you saw me said, have I got the right side? Otherwise, you'll get told off. It's so funny, because they're so conscious now. I drew into them. Careful. It's a mark left and right to frame the face. Exactly. Especially with big earrings. Because it's so easy to when they, you know, flat on, then it turned upwards. So if they put on a pair of earrings and you thought it didn't suit them, would you say, they don't know you can't buy those? I would say that, not not because of the sourdever, because I would think that I would say, actually, I would say that, you know, there's, we tried to show them others, and I think it would be more beautiful. Maybe some people would take it the wrong way. But, but no, I think it's for them. I mean, I feel pride when they wear something, you know, and they got compliments. I mean, to put some pictures up to accompany this podcast and to show Michelle's, I mean, not any, does she have the diamonds that reflect on her complexion? She has the clearest porcelain-type skin that is possible. And I wonder where you feel that jewelry worn around the face. Does it, is it as important as makeup? Is it as important to the skin as they're staying out of the sun, which I know you do religiously? This is very bad about this porcelain thing. It's not true. It's not, I don't have porcelain skin, but I do stay out of the sun for me, I swear by it. I walked with Michelle in London streets when there's barely a ray of sun, and she has an umbrella up to protect her complexion. You're, yes, you're very strict about that, aren't you? Oh, yes, it's because I've got very sensitive skin, and I get freckles. And as one gets older, you know, they don't go away. And I was very young. Yes, a few days, you know, did disappear, but now never. So I have to be very, very careful. Yes, I mean, basically, you know, I mean, we have different sort of colourings, we have different complexion. Of course, you know, you would choose jewelry that will complement your own colouring. I mean, that's very basic, how we're thinking. Same as makeup. Same as something that suits you. Exactly. The right shade. Yeah. That can bring a face alive or kill it. You have spectacular bridges, Michelle, do you find that the moment was so many men wearing them? Are they coming to you for bridges? Oh, totally. Actually, I just had one design for a young collector, male, who is in his 30s. You know, nowadays, you know, really it's so chic. I mean, to choose the right thing, of course, you know, lapel pins, you know, small broaches. That's that's that's goes with outfit. In the olden days, I had male collectors too, but mainly cufflinks. But actually, now less people wear cufflinks, but instead they go for broaches. So it's a very interesting trend now. When you do the jewels that you're inspired when you look at nature, do you ever bring the nature into your showroom and work from the actual flower or the actual piece of fruit? Do you have that in front of you ever? It's still looking at your ideas. Oh, totally. That's how I work with the craftsman. Yes. It's always nice. It's a flower. Look at the flower. I mean, it's it's the easiest way. So what do you take in, for instance, what have you taken into the showroom to the workshop to show them? Yeah. If it's a flower, I show them a flower. The real thing. The real thing, you see the real thing and then you can interpret whatever you like. But I think you have to see the basics first. All right. So you stop with the basic and then you can be creative around. It doesn't have to be accurate. No, it doesn't have to be. And also it would be very interesting to see even, you know, nature. They're ready. It's got even colors, you know, it's got nuances of different shades naturally. So, you know, you wanted to be close to nature, but with your own interpretation. Another particular Chinese flowers and that you take in, that you think are associated with the Chinese culture. With pionis? Yes. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. We love that. Multi-layer. They're sort of like frilly aren't they? Exactly. Like very rich. You're also incredibly busy. Michelle, working with your foundation, the first initiative foundation that supports arts and education and community welfare in Hong Kong. So how do you juggle all of that? How do you juggle the jury around the foundation? Or do they kind of go together? Go together. You come to my place. You will see one side is a carne, one side is FIF. Actually, because I'm so busy that actually, you know, I sit there whatever, I do everything at one go. I started first initiative foundation 15 years ago. I launched it. I felt there was a need to make a positive and charitable impact through the arts. And so I launched the foundation and this is to uplift our community through the support of arts, music, mentorship, performance, education, heritage and cultural opportunities both locally and globally. Actually, from that time on, I already thought of global connection. And we bring the best of the artist to Hong Kong, and we want to showcase the best of our talents to the world too. I think there's also, you know, it seems a lot, you know, wrapped into one thing, but it sort of works. And I have a big, you know, supporters, you know, of community and foundation. And you take it around the world, don't you? Yes. Because you've got a massive project coming up in Pompeii. Well, that is crazy, yeah. That people are still thinking, get their head around this, I mean, you're crazy. Because actually, long, long was my first member. The pianist, the pianist, long, long, the pianist. I mean, he just did a master class for me last year. So I woke up one day and I thought of this idea of having, you know, why do we do something with Pompeii and Cian, China, the terracotta warriors, they're both 2,200 and 2,500 years, you know, culture of culture. So I thought it would be so great to have a thread to find a thread to thread through the two cultures. And long, long is of course the perfect person to do it. So I really set the date for Pompeii. We do a concert, long, long in France, showcase some of our Hong Kong Chinese, incredible talented artists. We're going to have a concert in the amphitheater in Pompeii. I'm going to lie. Amazing. And now I'm working towards Cian. And this is the first step yet, you know, I really have to go and because the government is really showed interest and we're going to talk a bit more. They really sort of offered a few venues to see there's one venue that is about the same period as Pompeii. So the main thing is that, okay, we have two concerts, blah, blah, blah, but the main thing is that we're going to do a documentary and you can showcase a lot of things. And that stays for posterity. People can find it on the internet. Exactly. With that experience being in those two extraordinary archaeological sites, would that inspire you in your jury design? I think I'm already thinking what to wear. And you'll have to decide something new to wear. And totally, totally. The outfit and the jury. And actually it's one very important thing that I always tell my clients. So I say sometimes I don't understand why are you people by the outfits and think of what to match. You shouldn't. What is more important? You should think of what jury and then you find something to match with the jury. And for the wrong way, wrong way, totally. I'm very convinced it's the wrong way around. So you've got to make the jury first. Exactly. I mean, who cares? Basically, you know, for me, of course, I mean, I mean, I'm the old, you know, generation. I'm a dinosaur. I am not, I have to follow trends, you know, like, you know, the very fashion conscious. For me, I always, even for fashion or whatever I choose, what suits me. I don't care whether it's last season or this season or whatnot. Whatever it is that suits my lifestyle, suits my person. So for me, it starts from that. And that's how we should buy jury, too. Totally. It has to be part of you. So that will give you pleasure and that will make you wear them. Well, thank you very much, Michelle. That's very good advice. And thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on your career with us. Thank you so much, Carol. Thank you for listening for this and other episodes of If Jewels Could Talk. Please go to our website carowelton.com. Do share it any way you can and we love to have a rating and a comment. The book of the podcast If Jewels Could Talk will be out in paperback very soon. So keep your eyes out for that. I'm @Carowelton on Instagram. And to hear more about our sponsors, please go to www.libish.com. Join me again for the next Jewel nugget. When we're going on a massive jewel hunt, we are going to track down a jeweled egg worth seven million pounds that went missing for 25 years. Join me then. It's a really exciting story. And thank you for listening. See you next time. Bye-bye. If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Walton is produced by Natasha Cowan, music and editing by Tim Thornton, graphics by Scott Bentley, illustration by Jordy Labanda.