Welcome to the Megan Kelley Show live on Sirius XM channel 111 every week day at NEAST. Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelley. Welcome to the Megan Kelley Show and Happy Monday. Hope you all had a great weekend. Last weekend of summer sort of, I mean not officially, but sort of, right? Because if you haven't already gone back to school with your kids, it's happening a week from tomorrow after Labor Day. And this is it, the last year of summer. Though I said to my kids, if in the middle of the year somebody came to you and said, Hey, would you like a week off? You know, they've been thrilled. So it's just the fact that it's the last one that makes it painful. But a week off is a week off for the kids. So hey, enjoy if you've got it. We here in the news world are on verdict watch as jurors are still deliberating in the Lindsey Clancy case into day three. It is interesting to me that they are still deliberating. I mean, they had part of Thursday. They had all of Friday. Now, here we are back at it Monday. I mean, it does make you wonder, what are they deliberating? We'll get to that later with our panel, including somebody who's been in the courtroom following the case very closely and are the legal aspects will be covered with one of our MK True Crime hosts. But we've got also some Megan and Harry drama. The reporting on that absolutely exploded over the weekend from Dan Wooden, who's got impeccable sources when it comes to the royals to this Alice and Borshoff at the Daily Mail who, you know, Maureen and many others see as like the the person to follow when it comes to these these two losers. There's been some rather jaw dropping reports on what's really going on with this move. So we'll cover it. And Michelle Obama, you'll be shocked. Shock has new complaints about her kids who she doesn't miss at all. According to her, I will not be getting sued for defamation. That's straight out of the horse's mouth. Here with me now is Jesse Kelly. He is the host of I'm right, as well as the Jesse Kelly show on Series XM's The Megan Kelly Channel 111 every weeknight. We are still a couple months out, but the midterms are fast approaching and make no mistake. If the house flips, it is a big deal for our economy. That uncertainty is one of the many reasons to consider diversifying with gold from birch gold group. In the three months leading up to the 2024 presidential election, the price of gold jumped over 12 percent. Why? Because it's a hedge against uncertainty, of course. If you don't own gold, consider talking to birch gold. They're going to discuss your goals and explain how precious metals can fit into your savings. They can even help you convert an existing IRA or 401k in whole or in part into an IRA in gold for no additional money out of pocket. Just text the letters MK to the number 989898 and get a free infocate and some solid information. The midterms will be here before you know it. Don't wait. Text MK to 989898. Jesse, welcome back. How you doing? Well, I'm so good, Megan, because summer is almost over and while this may be a glorious time for people around the country, those of us who live in Texas despise summer because the weather in Texas as much as I love my state sucks year round. But summer, it sucks to an extra degree. It's just so miserable down here the whole time and thank God it's almost over. I'm very happy, man. I can feel that. I'm sure that's true. I mean up here in the Northeast, of course, it's the opposite. It's so glorious. It's the weather you wish you had all year round. And then you have nine months of winter as soon as the summer passes, which is about to about to happen. What are your kids back at school already or not yet? The kids are back in school. And look, this is coming for you, Megan at some point in time. But I have to deal with my wife now because I have a senior. And so everything is the last thing, you know, my her babies about my oldest. I should say her babies about to leave. He's doing senior portraits. It's his last year of cross country. It's his last year of everything. And so it's it's a heavy time around the Kelly household. Obses high, by the way. Yes. I don't and and to her too. I don't think I'll handle this well because one of the things that I do to avoid the pain of goodbyes, which I do hate, like most people, is I avoid them. You know, I'm big on the Irish exit. I if I can avoid a goodbye, I will. And then you just move on with your life. And it's not that you like the person or love the person any any less at all. But you just skip the painful part. And then the next thing, you know, you're you got another appointment to see them at a holiday or what have you. But with your children, that doesn't work. And yet, you know, there will be an exit at the end of that senior year. And it is going to be terribly painful. And there's no way around it, Jesse. No, there's not. And look, if I'm being completely honest, it's just you and me talking and God knows how many of your wonderful listeners. It's a little heavy for me too. Now I'm not showing it, right? I'm giving I'm giving him the oil. You're ready to go. I never been prouder. Can't wait to have my own house back. I'm kind of giving him a little bit of that kind of thing. I think it's probably just as heavy for me. It's it's wild. You raise them and then they're gone. And that's why it is you raise them best you can. He's a wonderful young man. Both the boys. They're wonderful young men. I'm not not stressing anything. But you never know. It's a scary rough world out there. And off the little birdies can have to fly from the nest. Yes. And also the those mile markers in time bring up everything that came before. And this is how you become unhappy. Thinking about days past is truly a recipe for unhappiness. Whether it's good or bad because the goodness has passed. It's over. They're fond memories. But you're thinking about it because this child is about to leave you. That stint of your life where you're their active parent with them in your home is ending. So it's sad. Even though it's happy, you know, in this particular circumstance, it's sad and happy at once. Yeah, it is. It's very sad and happy at once. And there's also this part of it. And I'm sure so many people can relate to this now. Sadly in this economy is is he going to leave? You know, what what career opportunities are going to be available to him? I don't know. You're on great worker, on role student, all these things. But in this economy, I all my friends are going through this. Whoever recent college graduates, high school graduates, their kids are having a hard time finding established employment. You know, I can't talk to I can't tell you how many of my friends Megan, I've talked to where my daughter graduated, you know, got good grades, sent out 200 resumes. I said, I had a callback, sent out 400 resume, got one callback, these stories you hear. And now we're going into that season, right? And that that would be more heartbreaking for me than anything else. Not because I'm anxious to boot him out the front door, but he wants to have a career. He was a man. He wants to have a career. He wants to find a lovely young dime and put a ring on her finger and provide for a family of the things men want. And hopefully, he never know. Hopefully that'll come for him. But this is this is something all parents are going. Every parent listening to me right now is not in their head because everyone's going through the same thing right now. Absolutely right. I've seen so many of my my friends who have kids a little bit older than mine, dealing with the same thing. Even, you know, doesn't matter, even for your college to your college, no college, they're all having trouble finding a job. Doesn't matter what the credentials are. And it does, it's like blue collar job, white collar job. They're struggling. And even though if you, you know, if you read the paper, that's how he is very easy to find a job is like a plumber or an electrician. No, it isn't. It is not that's not true. And so this is actually one of the reasons why Trump is getting punished in these poll numbers because people blame him the same way they vote. They blame Joe Biden when he was president. Now they blame this president because he's in the White House. And you know, whether the president can or cannot directly affect the job market is something that gets debated. But for sure, he's held accountable, you know, for sure the, the American public says this guy promised to fix things. He didn't fix things. And my kid can't afford an apartment. Well, that, that, look, that's the reason Trump is in office. I mean, those of us who who voted for Trump multiple times, that's certainly me. We have our own things we want. You know, things we like, things we don't like. That's perfectly normal. But us political people are not who decides who the president is going to be. It's the relatively normal people out there. If you get a big enough mass of them who are passionate about one or two issues, that is the issue that's going to decide who the next president of the United States of America is. And Donald Trump is the current president of the United States of America because people couldn't afford things and couldn't find good work. That's why I know everybody, you know, ma ha is very real. I'm not dismissing things like that. The other parts of the mega coalition. But the reason Donald Trump is in the White House is after four years of Joe Biden, I still can't afford this. I can't afford that. Gas is too expensive. I'm making a change. So he even won the popular vote. Now you bring up a good point in that the president, he's not, he's not a God king and he can't on, you know, he can't unprint seven trillion dollars that we printed during COVID. There's all kinds of things the president can't do. There's some things he can do, but all kinds of things he can't do. But the people, again, the non-political people who decide elections, they will lay the blame at the feet of the president. And you're right. It's, it's, it's, it's burying him in the approval numbers right now and has the potential to bury Republicans in November. There's no question about that sober reality. I don't like it, but that's, it looks bad right now. It's fair game because each side does it to the other, you know, when the party that's out of power.
is looking at bad economy numbers. They blame the party in power, which Trump absolutely did. And Trump rallies said he can fix it. Only he can fix it. And yet it's not fixed. People are feeling the pain. So he's going to have to deal with that fallout. And the Republicans really are the ones who are going to have to deal with the fallout because Trump's no longer on the ballot. But the GOP is, I don't, it's like I've said for a while, like there's no one left to believe in when it comes to a lot of the problems in Washington. I really think it's private industry that's going to have to step up and help rescue us. The Elon Musk's of the world. I still believe in because they're entrepreneurial and they're big thinkers and they actually understand how the economy works. And they're not stymied by a 60 vote majority rule in the Senate. You can't get anything through. Like it's just, oh, everything's built not to work. All right. But wait, I want to go back to our children because this is the perfect segue into Michelle Obama, who we knew as many things. Sociopath is a new one. I was not aware. She's a sociopath who feels nothing for her children other than disdain. Oh, wait, I was kind of aware. Here she is. She had John Stewart on her program. We actually went back and watched the whole thing. And we, you know, we are avid consumers of Michelle Obama content. We're the ones. And even my team was like, that was literally the only interesting moment or exchange. Nothing else than the entire show had anything of interest. So I will show you the one moment. And it is interesting just given what we've already gleaned about her and her feelings about her husband and her children. But the subject that we just discussed came up. What, what, what does one feel when one's children fly the coop and no longer live with you and go off to live their own lives? And it's not to say nobody wants their child to obtain independence. It's just there's a separate lane of feelings that one would normally feel as a mother or father not so in the case of Michelle. Oh, watch. Then it's just the two of you. And it's a really kind of lovely, like it's a comfort like you've been through all these wars. And now you're kind of just together again on the couch. And you obviously miss, you know, the energy and excitement of the kids being around is so incredible. I don't, I love them. I'm going to see them night tonight for dinner. I love them. But you know, Brock cried when they went to college. I was like, bye, goodbye. Now I now Friday nights aren't wrecked with terror and fear about where are you? Where are you? And I love their man's patient and gross. And the thing I miss though is the job. Like, don't you miss, see your kids are so high school. So it's still a job. Yes. Like the, it gave a, a meaning and like pattern to my life. I'm good. Yeah. I look at all the meaning. I have a wonderful pattern. Oh, man. I love my kid's schedule. I love it. There's something about the schedule. I love the schedule. I love my schedule. I have a great schedule. And it's all mine. Okay. Okay. I, I have a couple thoughts on this, Jessie. I'd love to hear what you think. I don't miss them. That's okay. That's, that's out there. That's pretty extreme. In her defense, she might have said, I don't miss it. You know, having them whatever. But either way, she's not missing the experience of actively mothering her children, which comes as really not that big a surprise. If you listen to Michelle Obama over the years, she has, I mean, almost uniformly negative comments to make about being a mother and being a wife. She did not enjoy it in any way, shape or form. Now, I will say my own mother, who's very funny, said to me on the air once when I was at NBC, I cried when your sister went off to school. That's her oldest child. But by the time we got to you, I didn't cry at all, because that was the third kid. So she's got to use to it. And it was funny. And it was also true. I think this is something else. I genuinely think Michelle Obama did not enjoy her time as an active mother. And she did not enjoy her time as an active wife. And she did not enjoy her time as first lady. And the reason she didn't enjoy any of those things is because she's a miserable person, Jesse. You know, I'll tell you why she didn't enjoy any of those things. Well, I mean, look, what makes a great wife or a great mother? You know, I'll talk about mine. My wife, selflessness is what makes it great. I mean, yeah, she makes, she makes a mean very cobbler. No question. That's not what makes it great. You know, why she's, why is she a great mother? She whores into those kids and sacrifices her own time because her children are, you know, everything to her. She does the same thing for me. It's selflessness that makes a great wife and a great mother. If you listen to that sound, I did jump out at me and I'd already seen it, but jumped out at me when I listened to that, listened to it again. It was me, mine, I, me, I, me, my Friday, me, mine. It was not long ago, Megan. You'll remember this. Actually, you and I might have even talked about this on the air. She did an interview with Barack Obama. I get what, which liberal hack dork was interviewing them, but he's, he said to him is one of those one word answer things. You have one word answer. This next period of your life, what's it about? And Barack, they get a Barack Obama and Barack Obama says fun. And you remember what Michelle Obama's answer was? Me. That's what you need. Me. Here it is. Me. Wait, let's watch it. Stop three. One word to describe your next chapter. One word. Fun. Uh, me. That's what you called life. Why, I mean, keep going. Why is she, why is she excited about the kids leaving? Why was she always complaining about something as first lady to this day? She looks back, even though she's basically a retired queen at this point in time. It sucks. This is what I couldn't do this and this because it wasn't all about her. Anything that wasn't all about her was a burden to her. You could give her as many flights on Air Force One and security details and Netflix deals and all these things in the world. But if it's not all about her, she's miserable. And honestly, selfishness is all I hear any time I hear Michelle Obama, me, mine, I, this, that, my Friday is back. It sucks. That sucks. And first of all, the, the notion of now Fridays are not wrecked with where are you? That's a lie too. Those daughters have secret service protection and they have the entire rise to majority and thereafter. Like she was never wondering where they were on Friday night. They have paid for American by the American taxpayer 24/7 guards. Michelle Obama knew very well where they were. That's her trying to sound relatable or maybe a light bulb moment at the end of her comment being like, oh, shit, I sound kind of heartless when I talk about my Fridays are no longer wrecked. And she tags on, oh, you know, worrying about where they were. No, you knew perfectly well where they were. Stop it. In a way, most average parents never will. Here she is. This is not new for her. In case, I'm sure the listening audience has better things to do than listen to Michelle Obama's musings about her children. But we put together just a sampling. This is just her over the years about parenthood. Fun watching them become people where you're very eyes. It's scary. Oh my god, the most terrifying thing. So I tell people, it makes sense not to have kids. Absolute, complete emotional sense. Don't do it. I'm so glad I didn't have a boy. Because he would have been a Barack Obama that was like baby Barack, it would have been amazing. No, I would have felt for him. I try to tell couples, of course it's hard. Just listen to what I said, right? Like it's probably, if you're having some issues in your marriage, it's not you. It's the process of marriage. It's just all heart. Because guess what happens when it all works out right? You know what you end up with? Babies. Little people with their own sense of everything, they mess you up. You love them dearly, but they're a hassle. But I wouldn't go back to any of the stages. I don't long for the time when they were babies. All I can say is no more babies, no more tuition. Jesse, this person hated motherhood from the beginning to now. And did you hear that part about if I had had a boy, he would have ended up as a little Barack and as a, as a bad thing, as a bat talking down. That way, could you imagine? God, God forbid, you turn out like my husband, how horrible that would be. She's just an unbelievably self-centered person. I think that my, what I suspect from what I've gathered from Michelle Obama over the years with her public comments and the stories you read about her is, I think Michelle Obama thought that she was going to be the one who was going to rise to whatever, whatever, maybe not president of the United States of America, but maybe some business leader, some civil rights leader or something. I think Michelle Obama, I think Michelle Obama spent a long time in her childhood thinking her name was going to be in the bright lights. And she ends up married to a man who's president for two term president and everything else. And the things that, that you know, a good wife
would be proud of and happy about, you know, Barack Obama, this, Barack Obama, that I think it was all all of it like kick and dirt in her face. I think every time something great happens or Barack or something like that, I think it was all a reminder that he's getting what she should get. And it comes out of her every time she speaks. >> Yes, and she's like, he's mediocre. He doesn't deserve this. Why is he the subject of universal adulation? And she's right. He doesn't deserve it. He is mediocre. But she heard the people on her side of the aisle don't feel that way. And she's probably sick and tired of it. You know, first of all, we were right. We did this as one of our parodies here on the MK show. And the Huffington Post called it bizarre. What a bizarre way of making fun of Michelle Obama. Hello, we called this well over a couple of years ago, a year plus ago. Here's a piece from our Megan O. parody. Saw five. Here, Megan O, share the many joys of parenthood. I don't understand these women who have these kids. I'm going to have these kids. They're going to be so great. Do you know what having children does to your life? It ruins it. They mess you up. Your life is ruined. Say goodbye to your happiness. Whatever may have existed. They're a hassle. They're exhausting. And they're demanding. Finally, they're launched. So now mine or somebody else's problem. But my god, the sacrifice, I could have been happy. Just me nailed it. You nailed that one. It just, it comes out of her into look. Think about what that's like for her kids to hear that stuff for her kids. That's a tough thing. I mean, it's one thing to have a father who's maybe a little bit hard nose. That's more traditional type thing. But when that's mom, when it's mom who treats you like a like like she's she's mad. She had you and she's thrilled. You're gone. That that's things. I tell you what, that is what those things she's mad. She had you. Yeah. She's mad. She had you and she's still you're gone. That's one of those things you carry through the rest of your life when they're when they're moms and they'll talk about that with people. That's one of those things you carry with you and Michelle Obama, even if you feel these things, why don't you shut up? Why why do you feel the need to say these things publicly? Because again, you can't stay out of the line like you can't just be the wealthy former first lady in a mansion in Hawaii. You're getting $500,000 to speech or whatever it is. That's not enough because again, her name was the one supposed to be in the bright light. So I'm going to do a podcast and go on everyone else's podcast and just crap all over everybody. It's my chance to get back at everyone. My children, crap all over my children. It's like the one thing most people will be defensive of, you know, they they'll give you a point. Oh, yeah, this does kind of suck politics. Okay. I see your point about my side, your side sucks, but my side's got problems too. Whatever. But when it comes to one's children, most of the mothers I know, they might come to you as a friend and say, oh, juniors having this trouble with this. What do you think we can do? But they don't rip on their children in a way that suggests they don't love them, care for them, want to be with that. That's that's generally at least the moms I know align most won't cross. She knows she's never crossed over to the side where you say something loving about them. She felt there to say something like, I mean, I love them. I love them. But like when you feel like you have to say that, the rest of your conversation is probably not great. It's probably not so great. Here's an example that's got it all. This is her not long ago on moving Malia into college, so far. We're doing all the college stuff. I'm, you know, making her bed because whenever they went to camp or somewhere, I said, I'll make your bed once and I'll make it really neat and nice. And that's it. Got her room all set up and you could tell Baroque was totally clueless. He didn't know where to be. We gave him a lamp from Ikea and said, put it together. Here, you take this box. You put it together with nothing to put together, but he was over there with his lamp for like two hours. We had to get in this motorcade and leave the baby behind, you know, and to watch her standing at that restaurant, uh, waving goodbye. So I'm riding the brackets in the car, you know, we're driving back to the Air Force one in the motorcade, you know, we're a little quiet and I hear this. That was literally the sign. I don't look over to be like, and the agents are like, sir, are you okay? And he's like, it's like just man to do it. Just cry. Let it go. That's unbelievable. Like honestly, she's looking to humiliate him, you know, just the imitation of him choking up. And obviously he's the sentimental one between the two of them. I think Jesse, the reason he was probably trying to hold it in, is because he's married to a stone hearted sociopath who clearly felt almost nothing. There she claims she cried, but boy, very different messaging in that sound, but I just played with John Stewart. Yeah. Michelle Obama. I'm almost in a way and then I need to clarify. In a way, I almost feel a little bit bad for her. I do this sometimes when it comes to wealthy, powerful people who are obviously miserable. I mean, you only get one shot at this life, whether you're poor or rich or famous or nobody knows who you are, you're not going to get to do over. You don't get to come back and try it again. So imagine if you get unbelievable blessings on this earth and you're just miserable the entire time. What a waste of a wonderful life. That would be whether you're rich or poor, if you never find anything to smile about, if you never look around and think, this is wonderful. Have you ever, in her years, what is it now, Megan? 20 years, something like that. Of them being in the public eye, do you ever remember a time of that woman seeming genuinely full of joy and happiness? I never remember she's always mad, always miserable, always offended, always, it's a constant state of affairs. And you know what? Speaking of people, I don't like who I feel a little bit bad for because I can't stand Barack Obama. I think he really did a lot to destroy the United States of America. Imagine being stuck tethered to that thing for the rest of your life. I'll tell you what, I would golf more than anybody's ever. I'd be on the PGA tour because I spend so much time on the golf course. I'd be, well, you know, honey, I have a business meeting in Saudi Arabia. I'll be back in a couple of weeks and I would be gone forever. You'd never see me. We're just getting divorced. Like the children are grown, get a divorce. Barack Obama would have no trouble finding someone to actually love him and root for him and have stars in her eyes for him, no trouble whatsoever. They should get a divorce. Honestly, it's very clear they don't love each other. She's not capable of loving him and how can he love just the steaming heap of nastiness? Like no one's in love with a steaming heap of negativity. That's all she is about everything. Like I say, it's not just him. It's not just the children. So time is first lady. My God, like she hates everything as far as I can tell, except for her current schedule. That is the one exception. And the whole thing reminds me of this comment. John Stassel made to me who I love. He's hysterical and when we were friends, but we also worked together at Fox many years and one time I got into the elevator with him at Fox, it was just the two of us and I said, Stassel, how's it going? And he said terribly. I said, what's the matter? He goes, my children, they left. This is how this ends. They leave you in the end. You know, it's like the big reveal. And Stassel is not an overly sentimental guy, but the normal person definitely feels that heart tug when your baby who is like your sweet toddler and you were just pushing in a stroller and then on the swing and teaching his ABCs and how to ride a bike and to come of age and, you know, the problems change, but they're also still interesting and kind of fun to work out together as they get a little older is leaving is going to move out. And I'm going to get myself worked up, but I don't have to think about it yet. I got another two years, but they are going to leave. They're not going to live with you anymore. It's tough on you, your spouse, your other kids. I'm sorry, but there's something wrong with somebody who talks about it in those cavalier terms, like it's a joy and she can't wait to kick them in the ass on the way out. You know what Ab had to do today, Megan, my youngest son turns 16 tomorrow. And so right when the place opens, he'll be taking his driver's test tomorrow morning. So assuming that he passes, today was the last day, Ab got to drive him to school. And we woke up this morning together at like 7 a.m. or something like that. Or I woke up, she was already up getting ready to shuttle him out the door. And it was first thing she said to me, she's like, it's the last time I could to drive my little boy to school. So yeah, yeah. Things are hard. They're very hard. I was saying that to Doug, so he's our oldest is 16. He'll be 17 in September. And he did get his drivers license. He got his permit, but he hasn't yet taken his driver's test. I don't know why, I just kind of took a while. And and Doug was like, you know, he needs to get in there and get your test. And I was like, why, why, why encourage him? Like as soon as he gets it, he's probably going to want to drive himself to school. He's not going to want us to drive him anymore. And Doug, since they were little Jesse, Doug and I split the drive. So like, he takes the boys three days a week and I take my daughter, the other.
other two. And then the next week we reverse it or I take the boys three days a week and he takes my daughter to what what what have you. And for one year we were commuting our kids from the city. It's a long story, but we wanted to get the hell out of Manhattan and those woke schools. So for one year we had to commute our kids and it was it was tough. Just the boys just the boys because they got in and the school was like it's now or never. So for the full year dug in that boys used to leave our house at the crack of dawn. It was pitch black outside. And by the time they got out here to Connecticut everyone was weary, blurry and Doug started this tradition with the kids of pulling over before they got to the school and doing what we call a fire drill, you know, like sort of the Chinese fire drill that we used to do as kids. And they will get it. They'll crank the radio. They'll get out of the car and they'll run around the car. They call it like twice counter clockwise, twice clockwise, whatever it is with the with the music blasting. And then we moved up yards and the whole five of us were living here. And he started to do it with your early long story short, they're still doing it. My oldest is going into junior year. They're saying, I'm like, Doug, as soon as the eight starts driving, no more fire drills and boy, that put an end to the encouragement of the eights to get that right. Take your time. What's the rush? You're good. It's heavy. You know, it's coming. It's one of those things. It's wild. Everyone knows it's coming. But once it actually gets there, especially if you love them, right? So I don't know that I was ever any any kind of a decent father, but I love them and I love them. The death, it's it's heavy. It's it's, but it's wonderful. It's wonderful, but it's heavy. Like you said, bittersweet. It's the best way to describe it. Yeah. Well, my my one comfort is like we have dear friends. You know, we spend that summer at the Jersey Shore and they're in particular. We have friends who have kids who are older, who are in their mid 20s now. And their kids are so close to them still. They come back all the time when they can on the summers or on the weekends. And now they have different friends and now they have more serious boyfriends or girlfriends. And they're going through a different phase of life, but they're still so tight and so loving. And I think if you do it right, if you raise a loving family where they feel connected to you and vice versa, it's not goodbye. It's a change, but it's definitely not goodbye. And like it can be a really exciting fun new phase where they bring all sorts of different energies and stimuli back into your home that are new and exciting. And I don't know that I'll expand your universe and make you feel happier. So fingers crossed for that kind of a future, unlike the one that Sasha and Malia Obama are facing, which is probably a locked door with chains when they get back to the family house. Let's hope not. Okay. I want to keep going. We talked about your time in Texas, the miserable summer weather. What is going on with the Paxton, Tallerico race? Because the audience probably knows you definitely didn't want cornon and you're an actual Texan. Didn't want cornon. He was like, you know, establishment, old hat, etc. There were all sorts of reasons. Everybody keeps touting his donor network and how what a great fundraiser he is. And whenever I read it, I think of you. I'm like, I think Jesse Kelly be looking at that as not a great thing. It means he's owned. The reason he has all these donors trying to give money is because all these special interests who own him, but it made news this weekend because he said he is not going to fundraise for Ken Paxton, who is now the Republican nominee who beat him for the nominee against this lunatic, James Tallerico. And I get it. I'd probably be pissed too if I lost to Ken Paxton. I probably wouldn't want to fundraise for him. But the alternative is basically helping Tallerico win, right? Because he's like, I'm going to give my money to other states where they need it, but not to Ken Paxton, who he called lazy and said he's a bad fundraiser. And I don't know. I think it's all hands on deck to stop this Tallerico from winning. And he is a point to two points ahead in the average of polls down there. All right, Megan. So interrupt me whenever you want. Obviously it's your show, but I'm about to fill a bus through here and lay kind of all of this thing out for everybody and explain exactly what's happening and why isn't, why isn't happening? John Corning was in Senate leadership. Now, people have to understand something. There are five to ten Republican. There might be more, but that's rough. Five to ten Republican senators. What they do is they keep their foot in the door so we can never fully slam the door on communism in the United States of America. They'll vote with you on this or that or that thing. But whenever there's like some, but save America actually got a great example of it. Whenever there's a huge thing that they could do that would really stick a knife in the ribs of the communist revolution in this country, they will turn around and betray you. And here's what else is wild. These five to ten, maybe 15 senators are almost universally from blood red states. Blood red states states that could elect somebody to the right of me. It's Utah. It's the Dakotas. It's Texas. It's the Carolinas. It's on and on down the line. Blood red states send senators who turn out to be traitorous, scum to Washington DC. Now, why is that? Well, here's why it is because the red state GOP primary voter has historically, but we're getting better by the way, has historically been the laziest and stupidest voter in the United States of America. It's a very simple reason. When I drive through my town, Megan, I'm in rural Texas. I have all red representatives. There aren't homeless people on the streets, people getting stabbed. I don't. Life is pretty safe and normal here. Therefore, I'm not motivated to crawl across a mile of broken glass and vote in primaries. Now, I do vote in primaries, but I'm speaking for most voters. So who does vote in primaries? Generally in red states, the people who vote in primaries are older people almost universally. They watch Fox News day and night. That's not an insult on Fox News. But when they turn on Fox News every day and night, they see Lindsey Graham doing interviews. They see this Rhino doing interviews. They see that Rhino doing interviews. And when the primary vote comes up, they say, "Herb, we have to vote for John Kornen again." And so the red state loser GOP primary senator gets reelected and has been getting reelected for decades because of that dynamic because the red state GOP primary voter does not vote in primary elections. And what that has done is it's created an environment where these red state GOP primary voters have felt untouchable. They raised gobs of money like Kornen did. They spread that money around the Senate to buy themselves leadership positions. That's why Kornen was in a leadership position. You know, minority whip stuff. They spread that money around and they have convinced themselves presidents come and go, whatever a case may be. I'm a senator from Texas, also on my cowboy hat and run some TV ads about me and telephone the border every six years. These morons will reelect me and then I can go back to protecting the swamp. That has been the state of affairs for decades in this country. That's why we are in such a bad pickle GOP red state senators. That bring, again, Megan, you can interrupt me. I'm still going, but you can interrupt me. No, I'm interested. That brings me to John Kornen. So what happened was John Kornen, John Kornen, it's a little too close to the sun. If we have to do a little Greek mythology analogy here, John Kornen, because he had just been reelected recently in the wake of the U of all day school shooting much McConnell tapped John Kornen to work with Democrats on gun control legislation and Kornen readily agreed to do it and did it and got gun control passed. Why would he do something so apparently, politically suicidal because it was too far away from the election. These stupid Texas primary voters will never remember. They'll let it all go, except the GOP red state primary voter is changing. He is waking up. He's getting more involved and immediately after Kornen did this. This is didn't get widely publicized. He went to a state GOP convention here where his people were handing out John Kornen lanyards. There's a picture. You can find it on the Internet. The lanyards filled up the trash can and Kornen got booed off the stage. The GOP red state voter in Texas did not forget it. John Kornen did not lose because of Trump's lack of endorsement or anything else. He lost because Ken Pax then had won multiple state wide races and John Kornen betrayed his voters. That's the only reason John Kornen lost. It's not more complicated than that. Now to where we are now, why is the GOP not spending money and they've publicly announced they're not spending money every time I turn on the television to watch baseball. It's eight thousand James Taleriko ads. I have to this day not seen one Ken Pax and I don't want not a single one on television. Why is that the case? Just just to interject. They say that, um, that, uh, I'm not reading here. Taleriko has outpaced Paxton in direct advertising dollars by a factor of 200 to one that Taleriko has raised $30 million in the second quarter of 2026 to Paxton's nine million. So there's a very serious funding and add by disparity between the two. Keep going. And you'll see it again to the every TV commercial, every TV commercial break, there will be a James Taleriko ad not acting like the, the, the comedy freak that he is sitting with this papar talking about Jesus and
groceries every single time. All right. So what is happening here? These senators who have been luxuriating in DC and feeling untouchable for a long time finally got touched. And if you're anybody, if you're John Thune, Kennedy, Tim Scott, Curtis, you, McConnell, I know he's retiring, but you get, you get the drift. If you're any one of these guys, you set up in your chair when John Corden lost a primary and said to yourself, Oh, no, that could be me. Are we, are we, are we not allowed to screw over our voters anymore? Are, are they going to actually possibly vote us out of office? And so what you're seeing is the Senate. This is, this is their fight back. It's not that the GOP Senate is okay with Ken Paxton losing. The GOP Senate wants Ken Paxton to lose the election so they can look at the GOP primary voter and say, see, don't ever try that again. Or this is what will happen. The Republican senators, if they could politically get away with it, would be running ads for James Taloriko and not Ken Paxton. That's how bad they want Ken Paxton to lose the race. And that's what. Oh my gosh. I mean, this, this guy, like Taloriko of all people, it just seems so not aligned with the state of Texas. It will truly be a stunner if that's what happens, but you're explaining why it might right here. Again, the real clear politics, average of all polls shows him up 1.9, 46.4 to 44.5 over Ken Paxton. He's dropping, you know, ad after ad after ad and John Corning tells it's the Texas Tribune's reporting saying he's lazy and he doesn't Paxton is lazy and doesn't like to work hard. So is the writing on the wall? We'll, we'll see. All right. I want to keep going because there's plenty more to discuss. Kathy Hokel, who is the Democrat governor of New York who only became governor because Andrew Cuomo turned out to be a sex past who got run out of office and she was his number 2. She's an absolute moron has done absolutely nothing of accomplishment in her entire life. She can't string two sentences together. She's best known in New York for wearing an enormous sort of gang banger gold necklace that red vaxed for most of her time during the pandemic. So that tells you something about her. So she is getting just absolutely excoriated by some online for going to the Islamic cultural center school on East 97th Street in Manhattan wearing a hijab. She is wearing a hijab. Jesse, look at this woman. Here's a sound bite of her standing there. This is posted on Friday by End Wokness, sat 10. This is ridiculous. Okay. The defenders of this will say, oh, she's being respectful of their customs. You know, that's, that's their custom. So she's being respect. Are they respectful of our customs? Do they come into our communities and take off their hijab because they're an American now and we show our hair and we don't believe that women have to hide anything whatsoever to go anywhere or be anywhere. They don't. They do their own thing. So why does Kathy Hockel or AOC, there's all this video now emerging of these so-called feminist leaders on the left. Why do they have to hide their hair? So it's not to offend Muslims in an Islamic center when they don't care about offending our customs and wearing their hijabs, whatever. Most of us don't really give a shit. We don't pay attention to what they're doing with their hair or not doing with their hair. But I'd be caught dead before I'd put a hijab on inside an Islamic center or anywhere else for that matter, Jesse. Well, this is what it looks like to be conquered, Megan. If you import enough Islam into your country, the women will wear hijabs. You will have halal food everywhere. You will hear the Muslim call to prayer in the parking lot several times a day. This is what it looks like to be conquered. And we are being conquered. And every time you import more Islam into your country, you guarantee these things. These things are absolutely inevitable. I actually laugh when I see people on the right say things like we should ban Sharia law. We should ban Sharia law. That's the most pointless thing I've ever heard in my entire life. You can pass all the laws you want. If you import enough Muslims, you will have Sharia law. If you don't have enough Muslims, you will not have Sharia law. The laws you passed mean absolutely nothing. This is what is coming for the West. It's already come for places like the UK and others. If it continues to be really nice and doesn't try to do everything possible to avoid being called bigot and racist. If the goal of the West is to avoid accusations of bigotry, then get used to it. It's not going to be Cathy Hoke. It'll be every woman who resides inside the borders of the United States of America. That is what happens. It is a religion of conquest everywhere it goes without a single exception. There's not one exception. The exact same thing happens and the exact same thing will happen here. This is what it looks like to slowly be conquered. She is actually out there talking about how okay, she's such a feminist. And then listen to what she said here about her son. This is from March of 2023, Sada 11. I tell other young moms, I said your kids will be better. My kids are more engaged. I raised my son as a feminist. He knows that women have every right that a man ever has. And he'll make sure that his daughter has those rights. So she's all for what female empowerment, I guess, whatever her definition of feminism is. And today's standards are really just means you're pro abortion. And she wants her son to remember that too. But she can't expose her hair because it's considered inappropriate in an Islamic center, even though she is the sitting governor of New York. She's the sitting governor, Jesse. How dare she? Honestly, I just feel like you go in there. You represent the people of New York, a state in which I spent 50 years of my life. And you do it like a strong American woman. And you obey American customs, which do not require women to cover well virtually anything by today's standards, but certainly not our hair. Well, people get confused about the red green alliance because it doesn't make sense, right? I'm a feminist, but I'll wear a hijab. But what is going on here? Why are the communists aligning with the Islamists? Why is this happening all over the globe? And all you really have to do is look at the history of alliances wherever whatever period of time and history, whatever location and history. It could be the Indian tribes. It could be major nations. It doesn't matter. What is the main driver of alliances throughout history? It is not common values or anything like that. It is a common enemy. What drives people to work together? They found someone they both hate and they work together in order to take that person down. That is the main driver of alliances throughout history. Don't be confused about the red green alliance, but it doesn't make sense. Gay people are killed in these countries, but now we are working at the, it makes perfect sense. If you set aside these childish notions and just accept that this is the red green alliance and their goal is to burn down Christian based Western civilization. The communists want to do it. The Islamists want to do it. You can argue about which one of those two groups is going to actually achieve power in the end, but neither of those two groups are stressing about that particular thing at the moment, because they understand they have an enemy to take down and that enemy is you and me. Yeah. Last but not least, Sonny Hausten's son Gabriel has now effectively gotten the trespassing case against him dismissed. He completed a diversion program and now the case is being resolved reports TMZ. It was a trespassing case. It got downgraded and dismissed because he completed this program, which would have been offered, I think to most people, the diversion program. And so he completed it, but not without his mother to the end, injecting herself in this Jesse, writing a letter on his behalf as a former federal prosecutor and reminding everybody that her son is a Harvard graduate. The same thing she said when she rushed to his defense on site. This person constantly bitching about white privilege and how she doesn't have it. Her son went to Harvard. He's got Harvard privilege and she wanted the courts and everybody else involved in his arrest to know it to the end. Even when she was under public scrutiny for trying to rescue her, her, you know, so-called young son, he's mid-20s. She kept doing it and behind the scenes really wanted everybody to know. He's from Harvard, IE, a good person. Isn't the most damaging part of that whole thing, Megan, that that moron is a former federal prosecutor. Is that not the most disheartening thing to think? When you look at our whole judicial system of all the prosecutors and judges and all the different parts of it throughout the country, and you like to imagine, at least imagine, that, well, okay, maybe they disagree with me politically, but these are, you know, lofty intelligent people who want to do the right thing. And then you realize Sonny Austin at one point in time held that job and you think to yourself, "My word, are we screwed?" It's so true. I just feel like I don't want to hear it.
another word from her, ever again, on privilege, not one fucking word, okay, because most people son did not go to Harvard. Most people are, we're not born to a former federal prosecutor, and they don't have their mommy rushing in at every turn. Every minor interaction with the law, which, you know, this guy wants us to believe this was, why couldn't he handle it himself? Why couldn't he get an lawyer? Why couldn't he have just paid the trespassing fine? No, because Harvard, a Harvard graduate can't have any marks on his record, you see, because he's a future leader, he's a future king. Unlike your son or mine, that's how Sonny Hausten sees the world, but she'll still bitch about him. Great to see you, Jesse Kelly, up next. We're on verdict watch. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington politicians are always getting in your wallet, and that now they're messing with your credit card. They see your credit card and these security it offers are under attack, and that Senator's Dick Durbin and Roger Marshall want to change the nation's payment system to benefit corporate megastores like Walmart and Target at the expense of everyday Americans. Credit cards can keep your payments secure and provide rewards that families use and rely on to help make everyday purchases more affordable. The Electronic Payments Coalition says the Durbin Marshall mandates would let corporate megastores cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks with weaker security and fewer protections. Find out more at guardyourcard.com and consider telling Congress to guard your card. Jurors are now deliberating the fate of Lindsey Clancy, the 36-year-old Massachusetts woman on trial for killing her three young children. She did kill them. The question is whether she should be held legally responsible. She admits that she took the lives of her own children, but she says she wasn't responsible due to postpartum psychosis. So she's pleaded not guilty by a reason of mental defect or disease. I want to bring in two guests to break down the latest as we await any word from this jury. And there was word on Friday and there's speculation today. It's actually kind of there's an interesting little twist. We'll get to it. Phil Holloway is here. He is the co-host of the MKTrue Crime Show, which you can find at MKTrueCrum.com. Just go to any place you get your podcast and type in MKTrue Crime and the show will come up or YouTube. And Lauren Conlon, she's a reporter for Los Angeles magazine. She's been closely following the case and reporting from the courtroom. Great to have you both. So on Friday, there was a question Lauren from the jury. It's the only question we've received so far. Tell us what they wanted to hear. Sure. The jury asked to see the knife that Lindsey Clancy reportedly used on herself for her suicide attempt. And they also asked to see two bags of medication. This medication came from the Clancy's kitchen and also from Patrick and Lindsey's bedroom in the drawer. And reportedly, the medication that came from the drawer was never actually collected by the police. This was given to the police after the fact by the defense attorney Kevin Ruddington and Patrick Clancy. So there was some miscommunication I feel like in the hallway in the courtroom because the judge didn't tell us this in open court. We kind of had to get the information after and the judge did allow the jury to see this. There were some rumors that he didn't allow it, but he absolutely allowed it. And you know, it could mean a number of things, Megan. I'm not a lawyer. So I'll let you guys. That's what you think and I'll weigh in, but okay. Thank you. There's your cue. What do we make of that? Look, and I think it's great stuff, and Lauren's doing a great job out there. She's one of my best sources of information to keep up with that case. And it's like I said on AM update this morning, we're trying to speculate, Megan, what these notes or this note and any future notes might mean is kind of like reading tea leaves. You know, we just don't know what the jury is thinking. It might just be one juror who misremember something and says, Hey, I want to see that piece of evidence because I want to get my notes correct or it could be a group of them arguing over what something means. And so we really just don't know without more context. And I do think that we'll see additional jury notes because look, this trial took what a month or so or more. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Phil. Before we get to additional jury notes, I mean, we can glean something off of the fact that they wanted to see the knife with which she allegedly tried to commit suicide, right? Like they, because that's been a point of contention. They've been arguing about whether this was a real suicide attempt or not. The prosecution's basically like those alleged wounds on her neck and wrists were superficial. And you know, she like suggesting that she didn't really try that hard. That this was somebody who tried to make it look like she wanted to commit suicide. But did yeah, that's what the prosecutor said that I think we have. But my point is we don't know if it was all the jurors or maybe just one juror wanted to see it. What I mean is we don't know the significance of the request to see that knife. It might be exactly what you just described, Megan. But that's sort of a guess we're speculating. And it could mean something completely different. We just don't know why any particular juror wanted to see that knife. Is it because they wanted to see was it long enough? Did they have some other question based on the testimony? But look, this thing's going on for a month. And we're going to have more questions. And once we see the other questions, we might be able to sort of put a pattern to it and see, all right, when you take all these questions and you put them together and see a pattern, maybe we can start then piecing together what the jury might be thinking. I just don't think we should put a lot of weight on one note just a few hours into the deliberations. Well, I agree. And you can sort of a fool's errand to try to guess what a jury note or request means. And yet that's our job. How many verdicts have we been sitting on waiting over the course of my 25 years where this is what we do? I would say, you know, I might feel kind of good if I were the prosecution, which made a bigger deal out of that evidence that they wanted to see it. That somebody wanted to actually see that knife and see what they could glean from it. That's more evidence for the prosecution side. I mean, the defense was like, she jumped out of a window, head first. What did you think she was trying to do? So the fact that they wanted to actually see the knife might be good. Here's the prosecution talking about the suicide attempt during her closing argument, sat 25. She wanted to kill herself, but her natural instinct to live was fighting against that. So she took pills, but you heard the toxicologists. They were all at therapeutic levels or below, except the saracola, which was a little elevated. She cut herself. But you saw the cuts on the meaty meaty pot of her arm horizontally. No arteries, no major blood vessels. Did it need to be stitched the next day? The one on her neck didn't need to be stitched at all. She knew as a nurse, those weren't going to kill her, but she was trying. And then going out of the window, 12, 13 feet, and she landed the wrong way and ended up paralyzed on the frozen ground. But the idea that following out of a 12-foot window is going to definitely kill you, not necessarily. And so she wanted to. She was trying. She was trying in all these different ways. But she just couldn't get over that third problem, the capability of actually killing herself. And that goes against it being a voice. Because if she's compelled to do it, if this voice is making her do it, she would just do it. There would be no fight. There would be no struggle. There would be no resistance to dying. But there was. It's an interesting turn, Lauren, because she's really kind of, you know, the speculation online has definitely been, these were not real suicide attempts by Lindsey Clancy. But the prosecutor argued it a different way, saying she did want to. But the reason she had to try three different ways, swallowing drugs, using a knife against the throat and the wrists un-infectively. And then throwing herself at the windows because there was, there wasn't actually the psychotic voice telling her to do anything. There was only her own internal thought. And an internal thought can be overcome, unlike being, quote, directed by some psychotic voice who's in control rather than you. Yes. And I think what was interesting is that the prosecution completely flipped their story from their opening statements. And I would say throughout maybe halfway through their, their case, they, they had contested that this was not a serious suicide attempt. And in my opinion, it wasn't until their own experts were testifying that Lindsey Clancy had major suicidal ideations. She did want to go through with this. And the defense also kind of used those three methods as their defense and saying she wanted to commit suicide so badly that she tried, tried three different types of, of ways here. So, you know, listening to them describe this in the closing arguments, I truly didn't give it as much weight only because I felt like I was listening to an entirely different prosecutor, if you will. Yes. So interesting. Yes, because you've been paying a lot closer attention to it than I have. But I, I was under the impression that the prosecution had argued or telegraphed.
at least that this was not a serious suicide, it's totally. And the closing, yeah, so it's true. And then the closing message changed a little given the trial testimony. I actually think it's a clever place for the prosecutor to go. It is, to me, actually kind of compelling. If you're being pushed by the other voice, the same powerful voice that made you kill your children, how could it lead you to an ineffective attempt to slit your own wrists or take enough pills to kill you? She's given them something to think about. Phil, at the end, the horrificness, the horror of this crime, is really what will rule the day for the prosecutor or not. That the jury's just going to be so angry about what happened to the children because there are reports that at least one juror was crying during the prosecution's closing when she talked about the actual murder, like the actual killing of the children. So it all comes down to that, in my view. Here is, I'm going to give a viewer a warning because this is very disturbing. But here is part of the prosecution's closing on the order in which she killed the children and the import of that, Saat 26. You know, it was deliberate premeditation because of the way she killed them and the way they died. And the order also shows a rationality. The order should kill them. Because horror and Dawson are older. If she had tried to strangle one in front of the other, they would have known, this is bad. And they would have tried to intervene or run and hide. And she had a very limited time. She didn't have time to try to find a child who ran off and hid. So taking Dawson first and moving him to a separate room, having coerced, they would count in and having Dawson go in another room. That's rational. That makes sense. That's ordered thinking. And we didn't show you that post that she made about Dawson being a handful and not being compliant to show she was a bad mom. We showed it to you because it proves. She knew that he was a handful. She knew that he was less likely to be compliant to just go along. She knew that he might struggle. And so it made sense rationally to remove him and separate him first and kill him first. And she brought him into that room into the office and closed the door. And she wrapped that band around his little neck. And she squeezed until he was unconscious. As the blood's pulling in his face and causing those blood vessels to burst, causing pain and panic and confusion. And defense calls Dr. Lappasada to say, no, it wasn't 20 or 30 seconds. It was only five or 10 seconds that until he won unconscious. I'm sorry. How many seconds is it OK for them to have been in pain and panic and confusion? How about it, it wasn't OK for one second for any of those children to feel that? Yeah, she finally got around to what I think is the strongest part of her case. And that part of the closing argument I thought was particularly effective. It was also effective when she discussed the essentially the ordered thinking, OK, the fact that the defendant was able to sort of control herself enough to not use that knife in a way that would cause a fatal wound. And so I think all those things were important. And I think the prosecution gets credit for that. Now, however, I was not impressed with how they began their closing argument because what you just heard in that site, that's the most compelling part. It's about the kids, the children, the pain, the suffering, the torture that those children went through. That should have been the first words out of her mouth when she addressed a jury, ladies and gentlemen, the jury. This case is about these children. This lady, this defendant sitting right over here, she tortured them. She did all these other things that she could have just basically hammered on that. But what did she do? She started out with an acknowledgement that the defendant was seriously mentally ill, which plays right into, of course, the defense case. So if I had to sort of coach this or fly speck it from the back end, I would say, look, lead with this, lead with the good stuff, lead with the stuff that's the most compelling and the most powerful. But don't start your closing argument with basically the defense's theme, which is she's got a serious mental illness. On balance, I give the win for the closings to the prosecution, though, for those reasons. We have a little bit of the beginning of the prosecution's closing. Here it is, stop 23. Dispute that Lindsey Clancy was suffering from mental illness and that she tried to kill herself. There's no dispute about that. All of the evidence that you've heard, even the experts that the commonwealth put before you, say that she was suffering with a mental illness and she tried to kill herself. That's not the issue in this trial. The issue is whether, at the time she killed Korra Dawson and Helen, she knew the difference between right and wrong and whether she could conform her behavior to the requirements of the law. This case is not about our mental health system or how it treats women or what's in the DSM-5 and what's not. That's a distraction to get you angry and passionate about an important issue, but an issue that's not on trial here. I mean, I'm more a prosecution minded in general, but I would say I see your point fell, but I also feel like, you know, how much mental illness there is in America. You know what I mean? We talk about it all the time. Like, look at these weird, just so-called trans guys who are running around threatening women in their spaces if they're not called "she" and "her." They're mentally ill, these people. But that doesn't mean they get a pass if they murder three children. It is the difference what she's trying to argue between mental insanity or illness and legal insanity. And the issue here is what she legally insane, which does require a proof, it requires proof, that she did not understand the difference between right and wrong. >> Yeah, she, she absolutely, she's got to make that argument and she did a good job with that argument. I'm simply saying that I would not have led with that. >> Yeah, you would have reversed the order. >> Yeah, I would have led with the kids. >> I got it. Something emotional. I mean, just thanks to the law of primacy and recency, the jury's going to remember the first thing they heard in the last thing. Now, I see her strategy though. She, the defense is she was insane. She was driven insane by post-partum psychosis and a medical community that sucked, that just kept piling medication on her and not helping her at every step of the way, Lauren, when she, the defense did a good job of documenting, the number of times she outreached for some sort of help with her growing mental and sleep, et cetera, problems. >> Absolutely, and Kevin Ruddington did a fantastic job of that throughout the course of this five week trial. I mean, it's been grueling. And me personally, I go back and forth every day. I go home and I talk to my mom about it. And we discuss it because we both believe that mental illness can cause one to do some unspeakable things. But then the minute that you hear about what those kids went through, for me, it all just goes out the window and I forget all about it. And I do feel like that is one reason why the jury is kind of taking so long in a case where it's not a good done it. It's, again, is she criminally responsible? And one thing I'll say here, in terms of Kevin Ruddington, where I said he did a fantastic job over the course of these five weeks, I felt like in the closing arguments, it could have been just simpler for me. You hear about Lindsey Plancy as a mother. Everything she did, how everyone said she was incredible. She, all she wanted in life was to be a mother. And she wanted three kids. It's kind of just like I would have said, would she have done this if she wasn't sick? Would she have gone through with this if she wasn't suffering from a mental illness? The answer is no. The psychosis part, I can't speak to that. That is going to be a battle of the experts. And I do believe, again, the only person that truly knows if they were experiencing psychosis or a form of psychosis was Lindsey Plancy. But back to the distractions, though, of the post-partum discussions. And these men on the stand, you know, that the three commonwealth experts who are men who do refer to the DSM, where there's one paragraph about post-partum, Megan, I don't know about you. And maybe this was a distraction, but I'm sitting there rolling my eyes, thinking, you guys should chat with my husband. Post-partum is not four weeks. I suffered for about a year. He suffered for about a year with my first child. I mean, you know, so there was times that you do get a little angry thinking, like, who are these guys to say that, you know, she wasn't suffering? Again, it's gray. It's all a gray area. And Lauren, the jury now, we don't know who's who exactly, right? We don't know which of the entire panel of 18, I think it was 18, right?
got chosen down into the last nine, but we do know the makeup, right? We know male versus female now. Yes. So the deliberating jury is three men and nine women. And in my opinion, women are harder though on on other women. I think I mean, we saw Harvey Weinstein, all the female jurors voted to equipment him. So I just think females are tougher on other females. Yeah. Women can be very unsparing with their with their own kind. And on an issue like this, every woman either has her own child or know somebody who has a child and a girlfriend and has thoughts about it, you know, has definitely has their own strong thoughts about it. So it's going to be really interesting. It is kind of taking a while. Phil, they went out. The deliberations began on Thursday at 12, 27. They deliberated. So it was three and a half hours. Then on Friday, they restarted at 9, 15 a.m. They ended just before 4 p.m. So that was a full day for them. Now they're back at it. It's 120 East Coast time and they're on the East Coast. They probably just had lunch brought in to them, which is typical for jurors. And what we heard reports of today were that at least two jurors fell were seen wearing pink. Now that could mean absolutely nothing. Pink is a color that is in some people's clothing and they put it on and they wear it out around the world and a lot of our listeners are wearing it right now. However, pink has taken on significance in this case because it's the color worn by Lindsey Clancy supporters outside the courthouse and inside the courtroom day after day after day. And it is, I mean, and these jurors haven't been sequestered Phil. So you tell me whether at least two jurors are trying to send a message about where they stand. I suppose anything's possible, but I'm hesitant to put a whole lot of weight to that without knowing, you know, for sure. But because as you point out, that's a common color that's in a lot of people's wardrobes. But I will say this, the fact that there are nine women on that jury tells me that at least one, if not a handful or more of them, can at least relate to the defense position about mental illness and postpartum for all the reasons that you and Lauren were just talking about. But not only that, you know, my wife and all the other women that I encounter in my local community who want to ask me about this trial, every single one of them identifies with the issue of postpartum and the fact that mental health providers are are not very good at dealing with it, sort of as a general rule. So whether or not they they convict her, I don't know, but I do know that there's going to be at least some of them on that jury that will identify with her, will relate to her for the problems that she had with postpartum. And if it is enough, then she could be looking at at least a hung jury, if not a not guilty by a reason of insanity. Let me tell you why, because in the state of Massachusetts, it is the burden is on the prosecutor to disprove the defense of not guilty by a reason of insanity. Once these issues have come up in the case, they've got to go back and disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt. So she actually gets sort of a shove out of the starting gate because of the way that the law is written there in Massachusetts. Yeah, I know that it is wacky how you have to disprove it as opposed to once the defense raises it. That's something for them to prove, but the prosecution has all the burden of proof here entirely. What do you make of this business learn of the jurors that the report is from someone inside the courthouse that there is a woman wearing pink jean shorts today and a juror, another juror who is wearing a pink sweater. And on top of that, I mean, you've been watching the jury in general when they come in for the question, when they come in, they have to show up in the court room in the morning before they then retire to deliberate. But can anything be gleaned? What have you seen? Well, this morning, I was told by another reporter because I did not notice the pink from where I was sitting, but yes, one female juror in her 50s, I want to, yes, was wearing a pink sweater, light pink sweater. And then another pink juror in maybe mid 40s female was wearing pink capri pants. I think it really could be anything. I thought all the jurors looked very nice today. There was a man that I noticed who doesn't typically get dressed up. He did have a collared shirt on. It was tucked in. Another juror was wearing a tie, but he has worn a tie before. But I mean, I, again, I thought they looked nice and that always gives me a little bit of hope that maybe a verdict is coming. And I felt like there was urgency in the hallway after we walked out of the gallery, but that quickly dissipated. I mean, you know, Kevin Rudington kind of walked out with his private investigator. He's pacing. No one seemed to bother him for a while until he just started kind of engaging with the media and the public one by one before taking a walk, but it's been very tough this morning. And my prediction is that they're going to send a note by the afternoon possibly. I don't know if it's going to be a question. I was kind of thinking that they were going to say that they, they all couldn't agree just because it's been, again, over 10 hours. And it's not a question of if she did it. So I, I do believe that again, this jury, although some of the females are showing emotion, there was no one that burst into tears, by the way. During the closing, there was a woman that wiped her eyes. She was Terry. There was another woman who looked down appeared to just be very, very sad, but there was no audible crying, but they were very emotional, very emotional. I will say that. So you learn when you were saying, you would have preferred that Kevin Reddington just got up there and kept it very simple. Like, obviously she would not have harmed her children if she hadn't been mentally ill. If she had been well served by the medical community, we can all agree to that. But he, he did get criticized online for being too meandering. How would you sum up what the criticisms were of what he did instead of what you're saying? I mean, he, he, it wasn't cohesive, I guess. And I felt like throughout the course of the defense's line of questioning and obviously the trial, it was very, very much centered around mental health. And I thought that he, he brought up the, the lack of police investigation quite frequently during the, the closings and where that is very important to Massachusetts residents. I mean, I think they do have a distrust for the police set at this point, you know, between some of the last couple of high profile cases, I guess Karen Reed, Sandra Birchmore. And another local reporter pointed us out to me actually because I was like, while the sudden is he spending so much time on police again, when it hasn't really been brought up for a while. But I just felt like one of the defense attorneys, I, I really enjoy listening to his closings is Mark Agnifalo. He is a very, yeah, he's very common sense. And he just breaks it down for someone like me who was a layperson. I'm a reporter, you know, for Diddy, he's like, thank God, the feds got all that baby oil off the street. Oh my gosh, I'm so happy. Like it made everybody laugh. And it pointed out how ridiculous a lot of it was. So, you know, if I was writing to, I just would have maybe talked to the jurors, not in all of that, that, you know, the medical terms and not in the, the investigative terms, just, just simply, you know, everything we know about Lindsey, would she have done this if she wasn't sick? And that's it, you know. When I talk to Agnifalo about the nexium case that's cult that turned out to be like a sex cult up in my hometown of Albany, New York, he told me, you know, on air, but on in a taped piece I did at the time, because the women were being branded with his initials by their subset of the Keith Reneerie sex cult, which is part of this nexium cult. And I asked him, you know, this is your client. He's branding women with his initials. What the hell, right? And he said, no, no, no, he said, this is New York. We don't do cults. We don't do brand, like if they got the brand, they did it because they were empowered. Like that's what, that's what women in New York do. They don't, you know, it was to your point. It didn't work in the end, but it was a very clear line that you could take away like, okay, I get it. I understand what the defense is. Instead, we got examples like this, Bill. I'll play a little bit of him. Sat 18, Kevin Reddington. Whether or not Lindsey is guilty. Going to reasonable doubt, as his honor instructed you, and will instruct you, what that means, that standard of proof that we as citizens in this country are so blessed to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt before the government charges any citizen with a crime. I don't care how many cops you have in India, how many D.A.'s are sitting here, how many people are sitting in the front row, and they're all going to sit there and be proud of this prosecution. I told you in an opening statement that this is a prosecution that has ripped the soul out of this girl. This is what they had. This is a family picture. This is their family. How does this work?
>> Now it's going to be a picture of her in her hospital bed. >> Let's turn it into this, how, because the damn medicine and the rosy medical care that she got. >> Okay, Bill, I got to say the prosecution has ripped the soul out of quote this girl. He was a lot of things, but it wasn't the prosecution that made her strangle her three children to death. >> No, and you must have read my ex posts or because I was one of the people that said, look, this was a meandering, closing argument, this was sort of a, it's like he was just phoning it in like he was really tired and he just wanted to get it over with, but it didn't seem to have any organization to it. I think it was a bad idea to use those photographs that we just showed in that site. And I also think it was a terrible idea to say it's the prosecution that ripped the soul out of Lindsey Clancy because what that sends me to thinking about it, I know the jurors are probably the same way, that sent me thinking about the kids who literally had their souls ripped away from them. And so that's what it turned me to, I think it was a little weak, I think there's a lot more that could have been done. He could have basically said, look, the judge has instructed you or will instruct you this and give the exact instruction and say, this is how you apply the testimony that you've heard from the experts to the judge's instruction. And this is why you have no other choice but to find her not guilty by a reason of insanity. And by the way, the judge's instruction ladies and gentlemen also tell you that when you have a reasonable doubt, it is your duty to acquit. So you are following the law just as much as anybody else, if you follow the judge's instructions and you shall can find her not guilty, you're following the law. And it could have basically made that point a little bit stronger and more clearly, I think it lacked direction, I think it lacked organization, I really just didn't know where he was going from one minute to the next, but hearing him say that the prosecution took the soul out of Lindsey Clancy, I thought just, I thought that was a misstep, a big one. Everyone's talking about weight loss injections because the results can be so dramatic, they work by lowering blood sugar and reducing appetite. But what if you're looking to lose weight but are not interested in painful, weekly injections, especially when you hear about some of those intense side effects. That's why doctors created a weight loss supplement called lean and the results could be remarkable. Lean says the studied ingredients in their product have been shown to lower your blood sugar, burn fat by converting it into energy and to curb your appetite and cravings so you are not as hungry. But listen, lean is not for the casual diet or with only a few pounds to lose. The doctors at Brickhouse Nutrition created lean for frustrated dieters with 10 or more pounds to lose. You could get started with 20% off and free rush shipping, adding lean to your healthy diet and exercise plan. Visit takelean.com and enter mk for your discount. That's promo code
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You can get their 50% off of your new system by visiting simplysafe.com/magan. That's half off at simply spelled s-i-m-p-l-i-safe.com/magan. There is no safe, like simply safe. Megan Kelly Channel and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperen, Lake Lauren, Morgan Callahan, Emily Doshinsky, Jesse Kelly, real clear politics and many more. It's bold, no BS news. Only on the Megan Kelly Channel, series XM-111 and on the series XM-10. I do want to play what he said on the actual killings and the exercise bands. Again, for the audience, just know that it's, when I think exercise bands, I think about those stretchy, long, rectangular bands that are used after you have physical therapy or something like that. But these were chords that look more like a bungee chord, like almost like a tight quarter rope. To me, it matters. It makes a difference. I don't know why, but it just changed the visual of me. So here's Kevin Reddington addressing the exercise bands in SOT-22B. Remember the argument with the bands. She took the bands out of the bag, put the gloves on. Talks to Dr. Lapisada on the Zoom, slams the bands down out of the paper bag. The movement of the bands and yells at Lapisada and says, "Rapt. It was just wrapped. It weren't knotted because you're going to get Lindsey tightening the band, right? You got to hold it. You got to hold it for a minute. You got to hold it for two minutes, three minutes, four minutes. That's why she needed the bands. Not knotted." What a Patrick plants he testified to. You heard his testimony. He indicated clearly, unequivocally. They were knotted around the necks of those children. To the point where he had to struggle, he struggled to get it off of Gassons over his head and a police officer saw through the window. It's horrific stuff, but it's objective and it shows the manipulation this government. This prosecution is a mess. I mean, Megan, can I just say something? I know Laura something to say on this too, but as the defense lawyer, that's not the visual that I would want to be painting very clearly for the jury when I'm supposed to be making my closing argument, making them focus on my experts who said she could not conform her actions to the law because of her mental illness. I would not have been recreating the crime right there in front of them. Yeah. In the most horrific way with even the stronger husband couldn't get the bands undone, Lauren. I just think that he was also, again, trying to allude to the fact that the police did not do a thorough enough investigation. And they just, quote, took Patrick Clancy's word for everything. I think he was trying to get at that, although he didn't. I know, although he didn't say that. This is not a who done it. Exactly. And again, that's why I'm thinking to myself, you know, the jury is hopefully not seeing these TikTok videos. Patrick did it. Patrick Clancy did it. You know, so I'm wondering. You think he was, he was offering some, some nuggets in case one of those people is on the jury. I couldn't figure it out, except for the fact that he was, he was trying to allude that the police didn't do their jobs. And if they did, they, you know, they, they would have known conclusively if the bands were not it. They would have taken photos. They would have ran inside and told Patrick Clancy to stop because they could allegedly hear him on the 911 poll or hear him from outside. So I, I felt that was a little bit confusing. And I'm sitting there again, saying, well, the jury is hopefully not seeing what's going on on social media. So how are they going to put this together? Oh, that is very interesting. That's clever. And you're probably right there, because Phil, why wouldn't he? What all you need is one, just one juror who's persuaded by the online theories. And it's like it was, if that's what he was up to, it was a clever way of nodding to all that nonsense without drawing an objection or being too explicit in front of the prosecution or that court. Well, if he was thinking along those terms, and if that's what he was up to, maybe it would be a little creative, but I don't think that's what he was doing because the whole thing seemed to be just off the cuff stream of consciousness. I don't think [BLANK_AUDIO]
I don't think he planned this whole thing out because if he did, he would not have been standing there in front of the jury, essentially recreating the deaths of these kids so that they can visualize it. He only had an hour, guys. He had one hours that the judge gave him. So how many minutes do you spend, if you're the defense lawyer, recreating the killings for the jury? You could spend that time talking about your clients, mental illness, mental health, explaining to them why your witnesses made the most sense and why the jury has to follow the judge's instructions and why, because they have a reasonable doubt, they shall find her not guilty. That's what he should have been saying. - Yeah, I mean, he's definitely, he's got a story to tell and he told it in his cross-examination as Lauren. It's like this was a good mother by all accounts, never an abusive mother. She was loving, she was attentive. She was a productive citizen. She had her third baby, things started to go south, her sleep went south, and her problem started to mount psychologically. She didn't ignore it. She reached out for help. You had the terrible Dr. Tafs who only saw her via Zoom. That's my opinion. This doctor wasn't good and was fresh out of residency. Didn't know or ask from her elbow, which is basically what he was arguing and didn't take the time to actually figure out what was happening with Lindsay Clancy. When Lindsay would go back to this doctor or another saying, I have mounting complaints. It's not working for me. I feel dead inside, but they didn't help her. She reached out to her mother. She said, I need help. I'm not well. She reached out to her husband. She told them both. I have thoughts of harming myself and I have thoughts of harming the children. She told them, she wasn't trying to keep it a secret. She was jumping up and down. This is how I would argue it. Asking for everyone from family, friends, to medical professionals, please help me. I'm worried. And no one around her thought she couldn't be alone with the children. They knew this loving person. Even she didn't think she couldn't be alone with the children. She wasn't shy about saying things that were damaging to her, made her look terrible until she recognized, she couldn't because that terrible day would come. And he described it as one of her best days ever. There's not evidence on the day she killed them that this is not how I would argue it, that she saw it coming or that anybody could have seen it coming. She was there coloring with the child. She went to a wellness visit for Korra. She was looking to help Korra with not being able to go to the bathroom like this is not somebody who seemed like she's planning the child's death. This is what, you could do this in 20 minutes up and down. It's the medical system. It's not her. This is not somebody who we should be treating like a serial killer throwing her and jail and locking her up forever. Now, I could argue it even more powerfully on the other side. But that's how I would have done it had I been having having redding to Lauren. And I think something clear like that would be very easy for jurors to latch on to because we can all see ourselves maybe not doing this but like having mental health struggles and having a medical system that sucks. >> Absolutely, I think you just nailed it. And we heard the term malingering a lot. And this is from the prosecution. She was malingering. She was trying to get all these different types of medications on the fly. When actually the defense's argument was, in fact the opposite, that at times she would minimize her symptoms because she thought people could hear her thoughts and that if they heard her thoughts, CPS would come and take her kids away. And then in turn, you have the prosecution who took that argument, slipped it upside down and said actually the fact that she's thinking this means she's thinking rationally and clearly. And something else I would have said if I were reddington is the fact that every single commonwealth witness or I should say two out of three besides Dr. Avramak, they did diagnose Lindsey Clancy with bipolar two. In Lindsey Clancy civil suit, she alleges that her providers did not diagnose her with this or acknowledge that she could possibly be bipolar. Instead, they were just prescribing these SSRIs and one of the commonwealth experts even said during his testimony, I would be careful prescribing someone who's bipolar and SSRI because it can cause hallucinations, not in every case, of course, but at times. And I just, I didn't see that stressed enough. I just felt like there were certain arguments you could use that weren't really used, but I also find it, and I think this term is going to come, I don't want to come across incentive at all because this is a devastating trial. But I found elements of it very interesting because of the way each side was able to flip it, flip each side's argument, I guess, which is obviously their job. But in this case, specifically, I was like, wow, I didn't think of it like that. Okay, I didn't think of it like that. It gives me a lot to weigh. And while he didn't have, the truth is, it is not a who-done-it and even Kevin Reddington is admitting that it wasn't Patrick Clancy, it was Lindsey Clancy, but he did have a villain. He could and did try to point to, though not as effectively as probably which is the medical system that she was failed at every turn by medical doctors who were there to help her. And I will say, especially when you got the potential of nine female jurors, look, I'm not a soapbox feminist, I'm not a feminist at all, and my audience knows that. But I don't know a woman who will say, I've had amazing medical care from a system that is built around women's issues. No, it's not true. Every woman I know feels like the system is built to take care of men and women are add-ons. And children are add-ons too, by the way. They're treated as tiny little adults by too many. And there's been real frustration, especially of women around childbearing and all of that, if they don't get a female doctor. But around menopause as well, that there's not enough thought by the whole community about what this does to women. And the test, women are not just men with vaginas. They have only different complex systems. So anyway, so I think that's something you could have sold, could have sold to a jury that wound up having nine women on it. Feel like I got to ask you about the manslaughter charge, which was allowed. The judge is allowing, did allow and has now charged the jury on not just first degree murder, but second degree murder, and manslaughter. So if she, in order to get first degree, you have to prove premeditation and malice. You've got to prove, for second degree, deliberate murder, but doesn't have to have been planned. And on manslaughter, you have to prove that it's an unlawful killing, but you don't have to prove that she had the intent to cause harm. So getting manslaughter on there seems like a great thing for the defense. And you can argue this both ways, right? Because like, if you've got a very strong first degree murder charge as the prosecution, that's the only charge you want and you don't want manslaughter off the resume. But the prosecution's alternative here is not really necessarily second degree or manslaughter. It's, does she go to the mental facility versus the jail? So what do you make of this? >> Well, she's convicted of manslaughter, then presumably, she's going to go to prison for as long as the judge can consender there, because you've got three deaths by manslaughter. I don't think, I just don't see how manslaughter really fits the facts of this case. I don't see anything like sudden provocation. To me, it was a bit of a head scratcher why it came in. And honestly, if I'm the defense, I really don't want it to come in because I want the jury to think about the judge's instruction on not guilty by a reason, is the judge told them that if they go with NGRI, she's not getting out. She's going to stay in custody, essentially, of a mental health facility. She's going to be locked up in a, essentially, in the same asylum, right? And at least until she can be safely released back into the public at some point indefinitely out into the future, she could be locked up in a mental hospital for much longer than she could serve in a prison. So I would have told the jury to focus on that. The judge told you that you're, you know, you're not letting her go free. Okay, if you find her not guilty by a reason of standing, you're sending her to a treatment facility for an indefinite period of time, perhaps the rest of her life. Yeah, but he can't really, like he doesn't know how long to be going to a mental hospital. He told the jury that that's where she could be there for a year. Yeah. And I know, I'm just saying, like she could be right out and, you know, Jennifer Kaufendaffer, she's on X, she's great. She's former FBI. She did this amazing post and we'll get into it later when the verdict comes down, but she said in this post, don't forget, hold on a sec, can't read my own writing here. She said, do not forget the case of constant fissure. Have you guys heard about this? This is so disturbing. Constant fissure on March 8th, 1954, was a 24 year old housewife who drowned her first three children, ages 64 and 11, so basically the same as these three kids, in a bathtub out in Fairfield, Maine. Her husband returned home from work and found this hideous situation. And this woman, constant fissure, had actually also then tried to kill herself. She was found, not guilty. She argued that she was a paranoid schizophrenic at trial and she was actually sent to a medical facility. Within a year of her internment, she started show signs of improvement, five years.
years after that she was released. She went back to her husband, Carl. They started a new family. In 1960, she gave birth to her fourth baby, Kathleen, followed in '62 by Michael, 1965 by Natalie. So she had three more kids with Carl. After the baby's birth, the youngest, she started to unravel and mobilized by blue moods and worries, began to hear voices. And on June 30th, 1966, she drowned those three children. She was deemed unable to fit to stand trial. Like, this is the worry, Lauren. This is what terrifies people about the mental facility, possibility. - I don't even know what to say to that. That's one of the worst things I've ever heard. I mean, it's unspeakable. And again, I don't know what the right answer here is, Megan, I mean, manslaughter, if she's convicted of manslaughter, I think you said she could be out sooner than if she is found not guilty by reason of insanity, where she's committed to an institution. So I don't know what they are thinking at this point. It could be anything. - But it's the reason, a case like that is the reason this judge can't reassure the jury of too much if they find her not guilty by reason of insanity. We got for bid, we wind up with another constant pressure. Thank you both so much. We're gonna stay on this. We'll see you later if we get a verdict. All the best and tomorrow we'll have a Kelly's Court on this and some other interesting legal cases percolating, including Megan and Harry. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly's show, no BS, no agenda, and no fear.
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