Michelino Sunseri - Pre 2025 World Trail Championship Interview

[MUSIC] >> It's time. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> Ladies and gentlemen, we are live. Mikalino Sincere, welcome back to the Steep Stuff podcast. How's it going, buddy? >> Good, dude. Stoked to be here. >> Yeah, dude, I'm-- >> Just want to go from a siesta over here in Spain, man. >> Is that the thing they do there? They do siestas pretty often. >> Dude, it's kind of wild. Like, everybody, a lot of the restaurants, anytime we've tried to go after runs, everything's closed, or they're not serving food till 8 p.m., everyone's just hanging out and drinking at 5, 6, 7 o'clock, having a couple free dinner beers, and then the restaurant's all open, and they're like, "Finally, I can get some dinner." But yeah, definitely. It's kind of cool. >> Dude, I would never go back. I would just stay if I were you. Honestly, it sounds like a-- Europe, every time I've been to Europe, I'm just like, "Why do I go back?" It's just so nice over there. Europe's amazing. I've thought about it. Food's better. The only problem is nobody smiles around here, man. Like, I don't know, I'm a pretty friendly guy. So usually, like, smile and say hi to everybody on the trails. But I don't know, around town, it's just like-- you say hi or smile, and everybody just kind of mean-mugs you, like, as you walk by and nobody says anything. It's kind of-- I don't know. It's not very friendly, I don't think. >> That's a little weird, yeah. >> They don't really smile. Euros don't really smile for photos, either, do they? I don't know. I'm trying to think. Or is that just like people from the 1800s? I don't know. [laughter] So, well, man, we're here to do this conversation to talk about worlds, talk about the short course, talk about where you're at and your excitement level for it. You know, you've been out, you've been training on the course a bit. What are your initial thoughts? Is the stoke level high for this? >> Oh, yeah. I mean, I think initial thoughts, the course is more technical than probably anything in the US. But it, like, comes in waves, you know? Like, it's really, I don't know, it's really hard to compare it to anything. Like, maybe, maybe the rut would be the closest comparison. But honestly, it's almost more runnable than the rut, but then the actual techie sections are way more technical. But then the gradient of the uphills and downhills is way steeper. I don't know, it's really, it'll be interesting. I mean, it seems like all the uphills are super runnable, which I think, you know, Team USA, we got a lot of guys on the team that are going to smash the runnable uphills. The downhills are brutally steep and technical. So, like, that very first downhill, you know, like, it's flowy and runnable if you like techie terrain and, you know, rocky. Like, kind of like, it's almost like it's all eroded out from water. Like, a lot of it's, there's not even really a trail. Like, it'll just be like an erosion channel and then like patches of trails to the right or left. So, like, there's no, like, one maintained trail. It's kind of just all over the place. So, it's pretty fun. I mean, if anything, it's, I don't know, there's a lot of areas where it's just like, choose your own adventure, you know? Like, it's like, all right, have at it. Like, go run fast down something. But it'll be interesting. I think I think we've got a lot of guys that are going to have quite a bit of strengths. I really can't see any weaknesses on our team and with the course itself. So, it'll be fun. Nice. Have you been able to get out with any? I know a lot of people are there. Have you been able to get out with any of the teammates at all on the short trail team? Not on the short trail team. No, I think I'm the only person here. I think Eli might be coming out, like, tomorrow. Okay. I think he'll be here soon. But maybe get out with Eli soon. Got out with some people in the long trail team, though. So, been able to run with some Americans. So, that's nice. Nice. There you go. A little camaraderie, you know? Oh, yeah. Well, how has, I don't know, just like, what do you think, does this, this type of course, does it make you change, like, shoe ideas for what type of shoe you'll be wearing, adjust for anything, 'cause it's gonna be, I've heard, like, this could be a five or six hour race. Like, has it made you adjust, like, your idea for duration and things like that? Because it is, seems extremely technical. Like, how has it changed your preconceived notions for what, now that you've gotten to play on it? I think it definitely requires something with lugs, especially if it's wet. There's quite a few different really steep downhills that are, you know, 20% grade, that are just straight down a patch of grass. So, if there's, if it's wet at all, like, people will be eating it left and right, sliding down that. I mean, the very last section, the 10 mile section, of course, is a lot of that, plus a lot of rock. So, I mean, if it's, if it rains the night before, it rains the morning of, or if it's just extra humid, I mean, you're gonna wish to God you had lugs in good rubber 'cause you will go slipping and sliding. But if it's dry, I mean, if it's dry, though, like, yeah, you still do want those lugs, but the rubber won't be as big of a deal. But, yeah, that, I mean, the one thing that is really surprising to me is, you look at the course profile and it looks like it's just straight up for all the climbs, but surprisingly, they just zigzag up and it's all super runnable. So, I could see, I don't know, like, poles, I'm not gonna bother with poles, mostly 'cause I suck with them, but also because I just don't think it's gonna be really required. Like, the top of each climb, like, you'll get, you know, like, the first climb is 4,500 feet, so you'll probably get, you know, 3,800 feet up. That's super runnable and switchbacky, and then have to use your poles for the last final part of the climb. So, you know, you can use them for maybe 10, 12 minutes on the first climb, then the second climb, kind of the same thing, but less times, like, maybe five or six minutes on that climb, and then the very, very final climb, you know, two and a half hours after that, you might use them again. So, I don't know, I don't think it's, I mean, knowing the Europeans, like, you know, Antonino Martinez-Perez and, you know, Manuel, guys who are known for using their poles really well, like, I'm sure they're gonna use them, and they're really good at it. So, I mean, of course, it's gonna help them, but I don't think you need to be somebody that uses poles to, you know, to podium at this race or to finish top 10. In the long trail, 100%. Like, if you're not using poles in the long trail, like, you're probably totally screwed. Yeah, 'cause that's just a, I mean, what, it's an 80K, but, you know, the sections I have ran of it and know of it, it's like, yeah, it's not gonna, that one's way, their course seems to be far more rugged than ours is. So, yeah, ours is just kind of, kind of, not pancake, like, not pancake-y, but like, it's flat uphill. You know what I mean? Like, super runnable, I don't know. - Interesting, interesting. All right, so I got to talk team dynamics here. It's been interesting for me 'cause like, I'm very close with the guys on the Mountain Classic team. Like, I know Cam and Cam's kind of taken more of a, this leadership role in a lot of ways on the Mountain Classic team and try to organize at camps and stuff like that and have people out on your guys' end for the short trail. Have you guys been in contact with one another? I know, unfortunately, I guess this is live news now, people know about this, that Ryan Becker is not gonna be racing and that he is gonna be replaced. I don't know if I can say by who. I'm not gonna leak that yet until it becomes official or if they... - Oh, do the entry lists or are public? - So, Max King, Max King is gonna be replacing him. - Yeah, yeah. - Have you guys talked? Like, have you guys been able to like, you know, talk as a team and have any of those discussions for as far as that goes? - We just shared our first text messages today. So, what is the, September 17th? Like, we have a WhatsApp group that Tom Hooper and Paul made, but there hasn't really been much communication on it just because nobody's out here yet. I mean, it's really just me. Like I said, Eli's out in Europe, but he's not here in Spain yet. I think he's gonna be here, like I said, today or tomorrow, somewhere, but yeah, there hasn't been much communication yet. I mean, that will change. I think people start rolling in early next week, maybe this weekend, I know Max and David get here next Monday, I think Seth's at a wedding. Like, I've been kind of texting people individually a little bit, but not all together. Like, Seth has a wedding this weekend, so I think he'll be probably out here by Monday or Tuesday. Noah is slamming IPA somewhere. - He is. - So God only knows what he's up to. - He's helping David finish Nolan's, I saw him on the Nolan's, I was like, do you- - Help him, David, punch that ticket. - Do you, bro. (laughing) - The guy, Noah, we know you're not working right now. Get out here, dude. (laughing) Oh, yeah, let's see, yeah, Max. And then, I think that's everybody. Yeah, I think they picked everybody off the list there. But, yeah, I think, I don't know, it would be nice to organize a run with the whole team to the last, the back 10 of the course. All of it, like a lot of the hills are runnable, but that back 10 tends to get way more technical and there's a lot of parts of it where if you pre-run it, you're gonna be stoked you did. So hopefully we can, I don't know, that's gonna be a little too late for me. Like it's a two hour, like if you're running that last 10 miles hard, it's gonna be hour 50, two hours. You know, like it's not an easy 10 miles. - Jesus, okay. - Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, like it's pretty, so I don't think, I don't know, I don't know if we're gonna be able to get any runs in together unless they're flat, easy and chill 'cause every single part of this course, if you're gonna do it a little bit of a trail wreckier reconnaissance, like your minimum doing, you know, 10 to 12 miles. So I'll probably, and like long 10, 12 miles, you know, you're either doing four, almost 5,000 feet of climbing or, you know, 3,900 with a bunch of technical terrain or steep stuff. So it's like, I don't know, trying to check out the course the week of is gonna be difficult. I feel like it might contribute a little too much fatigue, but I mean, it could also help with the mental side of things, so who am I to say what works best for everyone? Yeah. - Interesting, interesting. All right, so I gotta ask you the question. One of the things I really appreciated and admire about you is that just like the grand, you kind of like projected this in a lot of ways. Like it seems like you came out here very early. You learned pretty much everything possible about the course. It seems like, you know, most of the sections extremely well, but would you agree with that? I mean, I kind of, I like how people project stuff because that sets you up for success. What are your thoughts on that? - I mean, I do love to do that. I think it works wonders from a mental standpoint, especially once you try to start, you know, putting into your head, you know, splits, time frame, nutrition, like where you're gonna be, what you're gonna do, how much energy you need, what's on the other side of this hill, and just have the ability to, you know, put a little extra gas on the pedal in certain places or, you know, know you should let off in certain places, you know, where to go all in and where to make up time. I think there's a lot of, yeah, personally, I love doing that with any course I can. This one, like I said, I think that back 10, the final 10 miles is definitely, I would say, you know, if anything, like the crux of the course, everything else, honestly, the first 18 miles of it, like it's kind of just like follow the flags and let it rip. Like, I don't really think it's that, you know, that important to have to be out here to check that out. I think being mentally ready for it all, that's the most important piece of it. You know, knowing that, all right, cool, we're running down a 20 degree slope on a field of grass, or just kind of getting familiar with the terrain, you know, getting familiar with what type of rocky terrain it is, you know, how big of lugs to wear, you know, which shoes to wear, like there's definitely, you know, a lot of little things that kind of add up that I think can help out and save a lot of time. So, yeah, I mean, I love being able to recce all my courses, like I think it just works wonders from a mental point of view and being able to see the course and, you know, visualize things before the race and, you know, visualize things during the race and just wrap your head around what you're up against and what you have left to do, you know, it can be, I mean, it's a double-edged sword, it can be, if you hit a wall early on, it could be extremely daunting, and then you're just like, "Fuck, like I got, I still have to do that, like, all right, damn." But at the other end of it, it's like, "Man, I feel really good, so I'm gonna push this section 'cause I know what's up ahead of me." So I think, you know, depending on where you're at in the race, it could be good, it could be bad, but, you know, the point is for it to be good and to work hard, so, you know, you kind of have to lean into that side of it. - Gotcha, gotcha. This might be, all right, I gotta ask you this question, it's been a bumpy season for you a little bit, and do you put high expectations on this one to hit a home run, or is it more so just go out there and do my thing? - Definitely, I mean, definitely high expectations. I mean, I'll be going into this one with surprisingly, even though I've bombed every race this year. I'm pretty sure I know why, and I haven't figured out, and if anything, that just gives me more confidence to really go for it. So yeah, I'm gonna be pushing right off the gun, and just, you know, how many chances do you have to line up at a world championship? Like, if you're not rolling the dice and going for it, then why are you there? You know, like you may as well, you know, push all your chips in and, you know, really let it rip. So that's my goal, is to really let it rip. - All right, all right, I like it. I like it, the stars and the stripes. What does it mean to you to represent Team USA? - I mean, shit, man, like since I was 13 years old, reading books on, you know, once a runner, you know, all these legendary running Lord books, and just like having that dream of, you know, for some reason when I was a kid, I'd always thought I would be, you know, racing like a 5K or 10K in the Olympics, you know, reading about pre-Fontaine and, you know, reading about all of the different running legends and the lore, like, you know, I was always, you know, had those dreams, but, you know, little did I know, I was slow as shit, and there was no way I was gonna be repping the red, white, and blue in a 5K, dude. So the fact that, you know, I found my niche, and I know, you know, what I am good and bad at, and having the ability to, you know, go all in on it and still wear a Team USA jersey, like, I don't know, it's pretty special. I, you know, part of me was like, man, like I didn't get picked on a resume spot, I didn't get picked because I got top three at Broken Arrow. I got picked on my resume, so, you know, there might be a crowd or people who are like, oh, well, you know, you maybe didn't deserve it, you were picked because of what you've done in the past, not what you've done now. And that's fine, like, I don't give a shit, like, I think it's even cooler to be picked on resume for what I have done and have the respect be put on that too. So, I mean, yeah, at the end of the day, I'm stoked to be able to wear a Team USA jersey, and, you know, it's kind of a, it truly is a dream come true, which is why I'm like, well, fuck it, man, like, we're gonna roll the dice and we're going all in on this thing. And, you know, I'm not gonna treat it like a race that, you know, you're waiting to see if people drop back to you. It's like, no, I wanna be up there racing. Like, I don't wanna rely on people to die upfront and to come back to me. Like, I wanna be there when they die. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I wanna be there when someone realizes that they can't hold the pace anymore and they start to drop back. And that could be me and that's fine. Like, that's part of racing and that's part of, you know, the whole mentality of putting it all out there. So, yeah, that's my goal. - I like it, I like it. What do you think of this team? Like, do you guys think from a team perspective, obviously missing Ryan sucks, but with the gain of max, that also brings a lot of experience. Yourself, Eli, Noah. Like, you guys have a lot of experience between all of you. I mean, I would say, I don't wanna call you guys the dream team, but like, it's a solid fucking team. Like, you guys have the ability to go get a medal. Is that, would you say that's the expectation for the, from a team perspective? - Oh, 100%. I think it's an extremely strong team. I mean, missing Ryan and having Ryan be injured and not be able to, you know, heal that. I mean, I think Tor is posterior, post-tip. Yeah. So, I mean, that's like, that sucks. Like, I love Ryan. I think he's a great guy. He's a fantastic racer. He puts a lot of time and effort and dedication into all of this. And I mean, the fact that he isn't sponsored yet just absolutely blows my mind. Like, that's totally ridiculous. It sucks to not have Ryan out here. But at the same time, I think the rest of the team is all really strong guys as well. I think we have one of the, I mean, if you look at Eli Heming, he is one of the best 50K runners in the entire world. David Sinclair typically has been beating Eli Heming. Like, do you know what I'm talking about? Like, so between those two right off the bat, it's like, all right, cool. Like, we got a pretty strong punch right there. You know, Seth is, Seth has a crazy engine. I think this course is going to suit him really well. A lot of the runnable climbs. And Seth's been, you know, I've seen Seth run on some of the shale on the terrain over at the rut. And he's very good at that as well. So I think Seth could have an awesome day. Noah Williams ran. Oh, what, what, what was his time? I see his nose like 245. It's pretty fast. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was 43 maybe even. Like, I got it, I got it. You could fact check me on that one. But like Noah's super strong coming down from Leadville. Like, he's, you know, super tough dude. He's hungry. He's ready for it. And then we got Max to kind of just, you know, take the team captain role. And like, if you've been watching Max the last few years, he's been really leaning into the really, really leaning into the crap that's called orienteering. And pretty much everything he's been doing has been, you know, like technical, like totally weird shit that, you know, most of us aren't doing. So like his, his, his experience, strength and ability to totally navigate and crush that terrain is, you know, like it sucks to lose Ryan. But I think the fact that we do have Max's experience to fall back on, like that's, that's pretty damn awesome. You know, and like, I think it says a lot about Becker that, you know, the one guy who is chosen to, to replace him as like an absolute legend in US mountain running. So I don't know. I really, I think our team make up a solid, what the Spanish and the Italians are fucking strong. Sam is a French, the Spanish team is definitely, I don't know, this is their, this is their turf. I mean, and those guys are, they're very strong. They're lined up as badass. So I think like honestly, dude, I think we have to have, like we're going to have to have three guys in the top 15 to win this thing and to, to met, to get a gold medal. Like I think it's going to be that tight up front. And it's kind of cool, like bringing back the whole college cross country mentality, all this, like personally, like I'm not, I'm in it to run my own race. Like I care about my teammates and I care that they do well. I care about my fellow US countrymen. And I want them to kick ass. But at the end of the day, like, you know, team tactics in a race like this, you know, we've all been doing all this and running our own races for so long, it would almost be a bad idea for us to start thinking like, hey guys, look, let's all, you know, let's all do this and try to run this way. Like, no, I think if everybody just runs their own race and is supportive of each other and, you know, has the extra mentality and boost of like, I'm not just doing this for myself today. I'm doing this for all of these guys. Even if we're not running together, I think that's enough to, you know, have that extra oomph to hopefully get us in metal territory. - Dude, with your resume, you're a first bout Hall of Famer in the sport now, which is kind of crazy to think about. - Right, I wish. - No, dude, you're a Hall of, I mean, I would easily say you're a Hall of Famer. What would it mean to you for the resume to get, it doesn't matter. I mean, gold medal, silver medal, bronze medal. Like, what would that do for you as far as like your career? Like, how excited and just like, what would that be to put that on the list of the resume, if you will? - I mean, that would be awesome. I think that's more of like, like goal versus process thing. You know, the process of it all, like the fact that I can even be here training for the race and be lining up for it and being in a place where I feel good about lining up for it and to be competitive, that's honestly enough for me. I'm just stoked to have the opportunity to be able to even do it. And that's special in and of itself. Anything else is just gravy, you know? Like anything else is just like, hell yeah. But, you know, process over the goal and the destination, that would be awesome. That would be, you know, the dream was not, the dream has always been to wear the jersey, you know? The dream was never actually to win in the jersey. The dream has been to represent the jersey and the colors in the country, you know? So I mean, that's already happened. So now everything else, that's why, you know, kind of have a bit of a, maybe a little bit of a laissez-faire attitude with the race, like maybe race it, you know, I feel really strong. So race it kind of how I used to and, you know, kind of throw a little bit more of the, you know, intelligent racing, if you will, out the window. Like I'm not going to, you know, it would be really cool to add a medal to the resume, but for me, the resume and being here is all I really need. - I love it. I love it. What's next for you after this? You hanging out in Europe for a bit longer or are you going somewhere else? What do you do? - No, dude, I got to go back for sentencing. So I'm not forget-- - That was not a got you question, by the way. I totally forgot about that. (laughing) - I know, I know. No, dude, hopefully we could get it moved, but I'm supposed to be back October 1st, which would suck because if we do medal, then I have to miss the ceremony and I won't even be able to be there, which is another reason why I'm like, ah, like whatever. Like I guess, you know, like for me, just being here is the medal. So I may have to totally skip it if that happens, but as of right now, I have to be in a courtroom in Jackson Hole on October 1st and then Kodiak 100K. (laughing) - Okay, all right, all right, so. Dude, Kodiak, I forgot, Francesco told me about Kodiak. Okay, so wait, dude, that'll be fun. That'll be, Kodiak is a dope race. You get to hang out with Chad Hall, that'll be fun. - Yeah, oh yeah, no, it'd be stoked. I don't think we've ever raced. So I mean, I mean, he'd smoke my ass in anything, you know, 50K and under, I think, especially on those trails. But I don't know, maybe 100K, I could actually, you know, go up against him and see what happens, but it'll be a nice, it'll be a nice cherry on top of the season, you know. - Nice, nice, I'd love to hear it, man. Dude, wish you knew the best of luck. I hope you have an amazing race, man. I hope it's the beautiful cap on the season and, you know, it meets your expectations and you have a great day out there. - Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm stoked. Thanks for having me on again and stoked to hear what everybody else has to say about this race. - Thanks for coming on. Oh, absolutely, dude, it's gonna be fun. Appreciate it. - Hell yeah. 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