Michael Douglas | Club Random with Bill Maher

Well folks, if you're going to spend money on something in Spanish, well be something you actually like. That's what I always say. That's where the club random merch store comes in. That's right, get yourself a cozy hoodie. Look at this. This is really well designed. That's right, get yourself a cozy hoodie to snuggle away your sorrows or some new club random shirts. Look at all this, should I have to attract a partner with similar interests and live happily ever after. I've seen crazier mom comes, so head over to clubrandom.com and bring home some random. If you'd ever said it to somebody else, right? Did you? No, so it wasn't a lie. No, Betty could certainly sound like one club random. We got 40 SWAT members and the group says, you know, we know where you live. He folded like that man. It's not right. You'll again. Made Bill. That's a cool thing you got here, man. Yeah, I am so glad you came. Oh my goodness. I'm sure you've had, you're on a bookstore, right? It's grueling. It's, it's, I thought, you know, I'm used to having, I've been as a major movie promotion, but the book thinks a whole different world. Well, first of all, budget wise. Yeah, it's the whole different budget to get people to read anything. Yeah. Yeah, so the, and it's fantastic, by the way. It really is. Thanks, man. It's your voice and you can tell it's your voice. It's not told to feel happy. I appreciate, yeah. You know, I could host a Shane Salern. I might, my writer, we worked together a lot of hours. I was in Spain and he was in LA and he is weird, weird hours. He, he works of like in the afternoon to like seven o'clock in the morning. So I worked out, I worked out well. Well, but this is, I mean, you know, he worked with my ass all like this and had a piece of shit. You know, so it's been, it's been, I really appreciate the response we've been getting. Yeah, I mean, I mean, the life you've had and it's not over yet. I mean, your father lived to what? 101? 103. 103. Yeah. So, you know, there could be a part two to this. But, you know, I just want you to know, we're off the clock now. I know you've been doing interviews. I've never once prepared anything for this. I've never regarded it as an interview show. It's not an interview. It's just two guys have a drink. I'm off the clock because I'm fucking tired. I do my show today. I know. So, I'm, you know, so like whatever. And of course, you don't mind if I smoke pots. Of course not. Okay. I would join you. Except, yeah, yeah. One of the nice things that happened just before I started this tour is that I had loads. So, I mean, you know, well, you've had trouble in that area already. I have. One thing I love about the book is that it straightens out like when you hear the shit from the horse's mouth, like everything the media tells you is always wrong. Right. I remember when you were going through your cancer. Right. And by the way, one of the greatest lines ever when you walked out at the globes and the standing ovation went for like 10 minutes. It must be an easier way to get a standing ovation. That was. Did you think of that? That was. No, yeah. Just back. That was backstage. I mean, you know, I said the standing ovation. Oh, yeah, pretty sure. And then it was. So this is tough. It's a tough way to get a standing ovation. But like I remember it, like the media story was Michael Douglas is a sex addict. And it's such a bad case of sex addiction. He got cancer reading pussy. Well, my wrong that that's how they portrayed it. And it will go. Well, that was wrong. Right. Not as. No, it was it was in nightmare really. Well, it all went back to to I went to rehab. Um, culmination of the the difficult of a difficult marriage. And a son that was in trouble with with drugs. Yeah. And be careful with you with success. Also, my acting career taken off and I was a big producer. Um, had a big company of finance movies. And the man who I love my father, but the man that was really closest to my heart was my stepfather Bill. And he passed away. And, um, and I've been, you know, rocking and rolling and self-medicating and friends that, you know, suggested maybe it's time. So, um, I went to rehab. And this was after an outfailer traction and basic, basic instinct. And, um, you know, in rehab, it was like, hey, hey, you do group sessions together with the, you know, a group in this anonymous supposed to be very close. And there were two heroin addict guys in there and the group who, uh, have been in a lot of rehabs and recognized who I was and sniffed out and they made a deal with the nurse. Um, and got out my files and got in contact with the English tabloid paper. And so then rather than a, that's how it happened. They dropped a dime on you in the rehab. Yeah. Oh, so, you know, and you're, and you're, this is supposed to be the most vulnerable time to get everything out. And, um, so, and then this brilliant, and he was really smart. I just said, you know, rather than another, you know, alcohol drug story, I know sex addiction, so you have basic instinct and this and that. So it, and, and, and, well, and, and, and it stuck. I mean, it was, look, I, I, we always knew you were a dog and I say that as a fellow. I mean, I mean, that as a compliment. I was too. You know, it's just where alpha males, you know, it's, it's going to happen. Well, it's going to happen. But, but that wasn't, I think I was just because my issue was alcohol and drugs. Um, I mean, so, and then the other, that other part of it was, um, after my cancer, where I had my cancer, um, a couple of things came out of it that I was kind of proud about. I helped, that one was Dr. Dentist's, when you didn't have your dentist, just to have your teeth clean or this, that, the dentist would check for tumors, they just put a glove on it. I tried it then. Well, he didn't used to do it. Right. You got it in the tongue. Yeah. They didn't used to do it. Wasn't it really tongue cancer? Yeah. It was tongue cancer, but because, um, this was the doctor, um, said, look, we hope, we hope, you know, it's stage four. We hope the chemo and the real hope at stage four. No, it is stage four. Yeah. We don't hope. I mean, it was, it was, I mean, coming back from stage four is like, if you're in a arm wrestling contest and you're, you're, it's all the way back here, your hand, and you still win. That's, you got good genes. Well, you know, I, you know, I was in that time. I lost, uh, uh, Nick Ashford and Larry Hagman, both had had the same thing. So, um, when I, you know, when I came out, as a public service announcement, was, uh, you know, for dentists, it became a thing and they really, was me just saying, hey, right, then to check the back of your tongue. And then the other, uh, patient was H, HBV virus. Yeah, that was, but the message that I got out was don't eat pussy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you tried. That was, you know, you're up against, you know, DMZ. It's pretty tough. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it just shows, I mean, you've had the most amazing ride. Uh, I mean, very few people have had, like the run, like your movie star, look, aging is going to happen. Anyone thinks immortality isn't real. I promise you it is. How do I know? It happens even just celebrities. Trust me. They could make any deal with the devil, but we want the mage. Yeah. But you had to run from, from, as an actor, as a movie star, from Chinese syndrome to whenever, like Wonder Boys and, uh, traffic, like a 25 year, that's a mid 30s to late 50s. That is as good as you can do to be, like I say, still a romantic lead leading man, top of the a list, you know, gets the good scripts. Cheers. What? I'm, I'm right, aren't I? That's, that's as good as a run. And I, look, you did stuff after that. I, you know, it's like, behind the candle. Oh, that's a big win. Yeah. I know this is brilliant. Not on your like top list, but I love last Vegas. - Right. - I do. - That's for his eyes. - It's you're not, nobody ever said that. It's just what, well, it's just one of those guilty pleasure movies. I mean, you and Morgan Freeman and Kevin Klein and Bob and Rob De Nure. - Yeah. - I mean, it's like, yes, we're-- - We had fun. - You had fun making it, of course. How could you not? Look, I don't trust much and I definitely don't trust anything that makes Medicare more complicated than it already is. A lot of people selling plans get paid differently, depending on what they steer you toward, which doesn't necessarily mean bad advice, but it does make you wonder who they're really representing. So the trick is finding somebody whose only job is to be honest about it. That's what makes chapter interesting. They don't get paid more for recommending one plan over another, so they don't have a reason to steer you anywhere. They advocate for you, not big insurance. They are the only Medicare advisors that will compare every plan available, walk through your doctors, your prescriptions, what matters to you. And if you're already on the right plan, they'll just tell you that. But folks who found a new plan with chapters saved an average of $1,100 on healthcare costs. Call chapter today at 9-8-4-217-3643 to get advice you can trust. That's 9-8-4-217-3643. - Well, it's a comedy, and it's not serious. But even then, you were the alpha. You were, it's about four guys. - Right. - If I remember, you say they were friends as kids, back in neighborhood, of course we have those flashbacks. And now you're getting married, like doing much younger. That's what was such a cheat on that movie. Like, of course it has to play that the only appropriate thing in life is to marry someone of an appropriate age, which is hysterical since your wife is 25 years younger. But I totally really, okay. So, but okay, that's what we have to tell the audience. So you are about to marry this woman half your age. You're like 64 and she's like 32. Oh, what a scandal. Call 911. And they never ever show you talking to her. She, am I right? - It's just food. - It's just like, we can't even know why. She's not right for you. It's just she's half your age, she's got to go. - So the other three, am I wrong? - No, you're absolutely right. And you put in that perspective too, absolutely. - Okay, but then it's just, so the other three guys, and De Niro had some beef with you from childhood, right? Wasn't that it? - Then you remember it better than I do, Bill. - I don't find it, but yeah. - And they say, "We're Morgan Freeman." You have to like spring him from like the old age home. And they've got the close-up show. He's in the window about to jump out the window to escape. And then when he does, it's like, what was it? - It was, it was, it was funny. - It was funny. - And also, there's just one of those bunny pictures too, you know? - Yeah. - And you realize when you remember those old fangs, and after Dean Martin kind of stuff. I mean, how much fun it was to have three or four of you, that just kind of enjoy each other. - Do you remember the Oscar was Steven Boyd? - No. - No? - No. - Oh, maybe I don't. No, no, Elkie Summer, Steven Boyd. Remember, he was like, your father could have played that part. He probably was sniffing around like he wanted the Oscar, he was the actor, one of the Oscars so bad. - I didn't see it. - Oh. - No, he didn't miss a lot. - No. - No, I mean, that wasn't a great one. - Absolutely. - But. - Yeah, no, it's a, it's a. - Well, you know, whatever. - There's a lot left in it. - But you do see that like even in charmed lives, like we've had, I mean, still so much pain. I mean, there's still so much pain. I mean, if you just took, you know, took the pain parts, if you took all the fun parts, like, you know, oh, I did Coke with OJ, you know, like I'm sure, I'm sure I should be asking about all these stories that everybody else has actually met. And they're all awesome in the book to read about it with all these names, you know. But like for me, it's like, if you hadn't done Coke with OJ, I would be surprised. Like, every time you did something amazing with somebody, I'm like, of course he did that. Of course. - Of course, Bob Dylan and George Harrison showed up together. Of course, that happened to him. - Yeah. - No, it was him. - But pain, I mean, there's just a lot of pain. In the book. - Yeah. - I mean, starting with the mean father, you know, I was just asking about that on the show. - Right. - Egg shells. I remember I had an uncle and he just had this look and there's a difference between a father who gets mad at you for sure. My father spanked me a few times, but it's because I deserved it. - Right. - Then there's that kind of father who just goes off. - Yeah. There's ragers. - And I always wondered, like, well, I didn't always wonder. I wondered because I read it in your book and I got the chronology that when he was young and like this, he was doing great. I can imagine how bad he would have been if his career was tanky. - Right. - This, he was, you were born in '44. - Right. - He does champion in 1940. - 1950. - '50, '50. - Okay. - So you're a little kid and his career is taking off. He's walking into stardom at the must be so fun and God, what if he couldn't get parts? He would have really been shitty to you. - Well, no, I know though. I think it's a pressure, you know, of being overwhelmed and having so much to do. I mean, certainly is when your career takes off, you can't balance it with any kind of family life. And he, the one thing for him to happen was his father never gave him, you know, a moment of attention. He was, you know, he had six, seven kids, he was at alcohol, like this and that, and never said it. - Yeah, you know what? My grandfather, everyone never met, dead way before I was born, but I reached, like, with the broke. - Right. - You know, not first generation, but still had the broke, ran the Boatsman's union in New York, because the Irish controlled, they were the cops and the firemen, you know. And my father told me, he never talked to his father, it was like, women were for taking care of the kids. He would come home from school or whatever before he went to bed, go and give your father a kiss. You know, I was fucking reading news papers. And he'd come in and, hello young man, whatever with his broke, and my father, you get a kiss good night. And that was what you saw of your father. - Yeah. - That, I mean, people were just really rough. I don't, kids have no idea. They think we, the boomers, we're, we're pussy's compared to what the, that was the greatest generation. I mean, I mean, that was, there was a grace, and those, going back to World War II and coming out of it, all of that was my father. - I mean, I asked my mother about that, when that whole thing was, because she was in World War II, and my father. They met over there. - Wow. - Yeah. - Father was in Patton's Army. She was a nurse. - Yes. - Wow. - Yeah. Fucking the nurses. Nothing ever changes. But she said they, they were the greatest generation, but not before it was thrust upon them. - No, but it was, it was thrust upon them. - She said, we were, she said, we were knock on her, just like everybody else, and then we just had to fucking do it. - So my father after, he goes into officers training, training school in the Navy, and he comes out, he gets out one of those, and, and anti-sub, you know, for sinking submarines with depth charges and all of that, and mother tells a story that they take their first commission, and this, this is their, they're going in, like, on the second round in the war, and they're down there, and they're all saying goodbye to the living, everything else, and the captain can't get the boat out of the harbor, and they're standing, and he is saluting it the whole thing, and they're going back and forth, and they get out, and he only lasted six months, and they were doing, practicing with depth charges, putting them over, and they had a live depth charge, somehow went over the boat, and they blew their boat up, and they were on boat up, and he locked them, and he got internal bleeding, so he was only in the Navy about six months before he got to remove medically discharged. - Maybe that's what he was so pissed about. - Yeah, and so funny, like, we, - So you up in New York? - I was born in New Jersey, my father-- - We were born in New Jersey? - I was born in New York City at a place called the French Hospital on 33rd Street. My parents-- - I was born in New Jersey. - Okay, and here's something we have in common. Half Jew, I never knew it as a kid. I was raised Catholic, and I never even fucking asked, and they didn't bring it up. Weird. - Right, right. - There was a generation also, like-- - Well, they were religious, so they weren't-- - They were very-- - Oh, they were-- - But my thing, my mother thought, "This is what we've chose." See, this is what we have in common, two things with the Jew--one, that your father, because Kirk Douglas, nobody knew, so he would hear anti-Semitic--my mother said to see that--my mother was Mrs. Marr. By the way, when my parents did it in 1951, not done in those days, not done, gutsy. It was way more--she was--she was the Catholic. No, no, he--he was the Catholic and his mother was Jewish. So, they made her take, like Catholic lessons, well, and she had a--some of ushered later in life, she said, "Yeah, the priest was hip." He was like, "Okay, we're going through the motions, but--and you--your thing, just the reverse with your father. Your mother took lessons to be in Jew, and he said, "Yeah, but we don't have to take it seriously." Yeah, but she--they were--they were even--they were religious, but you're actually right. He was in Ashkenazi, from Belarus, blonde, good looking. The tragic comedy of getting older is that your desire for a couple of drinks on Friday never changes. Your Saturday, on the other hand, becomes a merciless creditor. It wants you up focused and pleasant. That's why the team here at Club Random keeps Z-biotics on hand. They have one before heading out, and everybody still wakes up, able to hit the gym, do the work, and function like a person. Z-biotics pre-alcohol, probiotic drink, is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was engineered by PhD microbiologists to break down Asatalata Hyde, an unwanted byproduct of alcohol metabolism. Make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and enjoy your next-day activities. Z-biotics has sold more than 14 million bottles, and earned the trust of thousands, including us. Try for yourself today, and if you are unsatisfied, they will refund your entire order. No questions asked. Head to Z-biotics.com/randomcode random. For a 15% off your first order, Z-biotics is a partner of mine. "Started in the business, and nobody thought he was Jewish, and then started hearing of this anti-Semitic talk." "Yeah, when they don't know your Jewish, it's amazing." "What you hear?" "What you hear?" And so I attribute it also, I mean, he talked about it with his father, but I think he also really built up a lot of anger about when he realized the degree of anti-Semitism that existed. In this so-called Jewish business, it was run by the Jews. "No, he had a lot to overcome. Again, we all do. I mean, I was talking on the shirt and I was talking about how we think when we're young, this, and this, and this, and I'll be, and I'll do." And it's like, there was always this destiny that you couldn't either. That's what Greek drama is about. The destiny and the character, the tragedy is he thinks he can avoid his destiny, but edipus is gonna fuck his mom and kill his father. Even though he doesn't see that. "But you're writing so good on the show, Bill. It's just so good." "Oh." "The writing here is so good." "It really is." "It's a lot of the mountains between yours and your writers, but whatever, it's really good." "No, those slackers don't really." "No, they're fantastic." "Oh, well, thank you. But yeah, it's like a Greek tragedy thing that we think we can not be what we're gonna turn out to be. And you know, you were always destined to be Michael Douglas, the star. You know, even though with the stage fright and the throwing up before the going on." "It's nice of you to say, but the truth is there's not too many of us, second generation." "I mean, there's very. " "The first ones who even outdid the first." "Yeah, or came close." "Well, I mean, you have. " "Well, it's true. Your father was a producer, yeah." "I mean, he had a five-pitch deal with Stanley Kubrick, you know, he did him." "That I have to talk to you about. That's a great moment in the book. And it's just when, I'm talking about when Kubrick, who I don't think people really think of him as the guy who directed Spartacus because Kubrick, one of my favorites, by the way, is like because every movie he does is completely different. There's no Kubrick style, like Martin Scorsese, he loves it, but you know, a mom movie with Joe Bashy and Daniel, it's not like it's hard to find them. Okay, Kubrick, Barry Lyndon is different from 2001 or full metal jacket. And people don't think of him as the guy who made this. He also wanted to show, I guess at the beginning of his career or had to, that he can also make a very big, perfectly orthodox, giant, studio movie, which is what Spartacus is. It's not something out there, like 2001 or clockwork orange, but he did it brilliantly. I still love that movie. And because it doesn't include it as a credit, but he brought him out. Anthony Mann started the picture, was not working out. But they had done a movie. They had done, you know, the Fred the World War one French. Yes. None but the brave. No, not only the other brave. Oh, this was the in the French army. I've seen it. Yeah. And then he had a five picture deal. And then he desperate. He needed Stanley on the Spartacus and Stanley said, I'll do it, but you let me out of my contract. And so dad let him out of the contract. He did it. And I don't know why he didn't have credit. Then they had a big falling out on the on the writers credit. And because he wanted to take, yeah, because I have pauses bill because my memories are names is not good, but the great writer who is blacklisted, Dalton Trumbo. He wrote Spartacus. And that's right. He wrote Spartacus. I can tell. And it's great. The lines. I still remember some of them. They were so good. And he couldn't, you know, he had been using false names. So they came to the point for credits at the end of the picture. And there's a water we do about the writing credit. And Stanley said, all right, well, I'll take the credit writing and said, no, you won't. Oh, you want this real real falling on after all of that. And so we're going to give, we're going to give Dalton his name, let him use his name. And it was a big moment. But the fight I'm talking about is the best moment, the most iconic moment. It's been imitated ever since where the Romans capture the revolting slaves led by Spartacus. And they just say, you know what? Just give us Spartacus and the rest of you can go. Which one of you was Spartacus? And Spartacus stands up and says, I am Spartacus. And then some other dude stands up and says, I am. And then they all stand up. The fact that Stanley Kubrick wanted to cut that. Right. And I just shows you genius. You know everything. I read your book. You really did. That's what George Eastcott says in Patent, remember about Rommel? I read your book. I know how you're going to know that was incredible. But they just shows Stanley Kubrick a genius. Geniuses are wrong sometimes. Nobody gets it right 100% of a time to have cut that scene. And it's like cutting off the dick of the David. Right. Like I know a lot about art. But I know I know he's naked. It wouldn't take a lot to cut off that. That's not much of a dick. Yeah. It was a circumcised. But it was just so small. Why? Why? Ancients were finding people. And a gay, a gay sculptor. You think the dick would be bigger. Michael Angelo. Sure. Was gay. Yeah. I mean I'm not talking at a school. It's been 500 years. I think the rumors out. I didn't know that. But yeah, that Kubrick would fight. But yeah, I see you have a few beefs with directors. Like who was the one? Right in the palm. Yeah, I am. Who's great? Who's done great? They may work this kind of face. Right. It hurt. Those are those ones of those punches that really hurt. When they said, you know, he is. He wanted to do the picture. He said, but not with Michael. What picture was this? Fatal attraction. Oh, fatal attraction. Well, he would have been not with me. And God blesses. It was Sherry Lansing and Sandwich had to produce it. Well, we've been working with Michael. That was so perfect for you. Yeah. What do you want? Who do I want? Who did he want? Who did it? It's out of you. He said you didn't want. He didn't want you. I don't know who. I don't even remember if he said it. It just wasn't going to be me. But I had you. You had a memory. You never listened to it. Was it Harrison Ford? No, no, no. This probably was a dozen. What it was was a separation bill between being a television actor coming out television. That's it. And film acting. Dip it. You're already done. I know. I got a shitload of stuff as as film. But you got to remember, I left the series, Streets of San Francisco. I had a five-year contract. I left it after four years. So I finally got it together on Cook's list to make Cook's list. Everybody said I was nuts. You're gonna walk away from me, a hit show, a hit series. Those are the days, you know, your series, you had 25 million viewers in your nationals that international, you know, around the world, you can leave that and go produce the movie that you're not even gonna be in. Boom, magic happens, like you could not believe, with the success of the picture. You never expect it was an independent film that we made. And then I had a studio deal, I was eight, as a producer, but it's an actor. I was a television actor. So then I started, so I couldn't, like I produced a picture called Starman, with Jeff Bridges. - Yeah. - I wanted to play the part, I was the studio approved. So I think that had a lot to do with it. And you know, even when I was up in the San Francisco, - Well, we don't remember Starman today. - I know, I know. - So it may, so maybe you should have played the part. You think if you did, we would remember, 'cause I don't remember Starman. - No, no, I'm just talking about Relie. - What was the plot? - Relie, Relie Rose. - Starman? - Starman was a man. - Starman was stepping down, he came down, you know. - It's like the David Bowie, so. - Right. - It sounds terrible. I think you dodged a bullet. - It was a nice picture, it was a nice picture. And we produced it. - Okay. - But anyway, I think that had a lot to do with it. And I remember those years up in San Francisco when we were doing the series, and there was the whole elite practice for the popular director of San Francisco - Yeah, yeah, Lucas and all of them. - Yeah. - Okay, so when's the last time you got your annual physical? My favorite part is when the doctor patch you on the back and says, "Everything looks normal." Yeah, but normal for what? A guy who's tired all the time, sleeps like he owes somebody money and needs three coffees to reach lunch. Apparently, yes, because in this country, preventive care is past fail. And not dying today is an A-plus. That's why super power is a game changer. Instead of waiting for something to go wrong, you get proactive preventive care. Membership covers over 150 biomarkers a year across two tests, a baseline, and a progress check. So you can see how your body's actually changing. The club random teams been using it and have real personalized data on their phones, and it's been eye-opening. The app breaks down your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, gut microbiome, even environmental toxins, and it works. 85% of members uncover early risk factors for disease. 79% uncover heart disease risk, and 49% slow their speed of aging. Go beyond your annual checkup and finally understand what's really happening inside your body. For a limited time, our listeners get $50 off to unlock their health membership. Head over to superpower.com/random for $50 off your super power membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about superpower. Tell them club random with Bill Maher sent you to support the show. They want nothing to do with it. And it's a generation now that is in the streaming world, the beautiful thing about streaming. Is it brought together feature film and television? First of all, writers, feature film screenwriters love streaming because they also produce, get producing, make deals. And actors, and so this is the first time really that we kind of came together, it was through streaming. By the way, did your father a favor when you didn't cast them in? I know that's a big thing that he was mad at you. He originally had the property, right, of the ones who were over at the cookus nest. So he wanted to play the part. He was too old. You weren't wrong, and they do it all the time. I see it now. Often like, I mean, I love James Bond, and I think Daniel Craig was the greatest James Bond, but this last one, it's just too old. Yeah. You know, Q was like giving him gadgets to fix his prostate. No, it was, but it was still, it was still the hardest thing up until I never had to do was to tell my father, you know, after he-- You did him a favor because he was too old for the part. And I don't think it would have worked with him. I don't think he was McMurphy, you know. Well, he had done, he had just done Spartacus. It was the top of his thing, and he had bought the galleus. He hadn't just done Spartacus. Spartacus was 15 years earlier. It was 1960, this is 1975. No, no, no, that's when the Picoca came out. Picoca's nest. No, but he bought it earlier, yeah. He bought it years ago, he was 1962. I know, but he aged. I understand. I know that. I mean, you know, but, you know, the truth of the matter is, you know, you're lucky. I say this, you have four good parts in your life, four good character parts, good acting parts in your life. He went back to Broadway. He wrote that as a play, Coocus nest. He went back in 1962 to Broadway to do it with the idea that he would, you know, have a limited run and then make it into a film. Was it a success? And then he tried for years to get it. So that's the length of time that he spent on it. So what I, what I, what he was going to sell it, he was just a lowly, a real property. He was a lowly, and I had then read it in college, because it was then now it was your 20th century American literature reading Ken Casey's novel. I said, don't, don't, don't sell it, don't sell it. I'll take it, I'll run with it, I'll get you the part. And he was like, I'd be nice to the kid. I was 24, I was 24, 25. And found Saul Zatz. I put fantasy records. And then he expressed an interest before he had a jazz label. And then he just decided a rock group called the Golly Walks. I vaguely remember that name. Creedon's Clearwater Relival. Well, I know them. That's who they became. Oh, really? That was their name. And they were the ones that financed the future. Yeah, because they had so many hits in the late '60s. They financed the film, basically. But anyway, look at it, but it was not easy to go and back and tell them. Yeah, it's a very unique career trajectory that you would be the successful producer before the successful actor. You would assume it would be the other way around. You're young and beautiful. You'd get the acting part. No, I was. You started-- they asked me when studios. I think it was Steve Spielberg. Push Sid Scheinberg Universal. I went in for a meeting and asked me to be the studio. He'd run the studio. Motion-piction. What studio? Universal. Really? And you didn't want to do it. Well, I looked in and I'm like, you know, this is what I'm saying. I looked at it like, well, I like acting. Right. And he said, OK, you know, wait three years. You can act in three years. But I'm just trying to give you an idea of where the other producing was so far ahead, you know. They really were pushing you toward the business side. Oh, well, they thought. And I've always never figured out what the problem was. And I realized people could not accept the fact that you could be both a creative artistic person, an actor, and also be, you know, production minded. Hollywood is terrible at hybrids. Yeah. They'd never got me either. Yeah. Is he a comedian? Is he a pundit? Why can't I be both? You know, you got it when Mark Twain did it. You know, you couldn't deliver more truth through humor. Yeah. Very often. You know, I think some people are better at it now. But some people just will never quite understand that. Yeah. Or like, who side is he on? Whoever's telling the truth. Right. Whoever's not. I'm not on their side. That really goes right over their heads. Yeah. No, they have to do that. You're doing okay. I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. And you did pretty good. And, you know, how about this podcast thing, man? This is what he is. This is a whole other. It's AM radio, but, you know, like, we just decided to call AM radio podcasting, but that was just people talking to each other. Yeah. But you know, but now they moved in with the cameras. You got to both, both, both ways, you know, you know, you know. Well, I do it different. I'm telling you, this is different. The other ones are really just old talk shows. Right. They just, they still have cards and producers and people in the room. This is more intimate. And again, nothing, I don't know what the fuck I'm saying. Right. I smoke by. I drink. I hope you're having a drink. Or a listen to bad for you. Well, I'm just, I'm, I'm, I've got these nose drinks. I'll drink for you. Please don't drink. Go for it, man. Yeah. Well, yeah. I may, let me just, you make sure you have a little pop. Okay. Just make sure. Just make sure. Yeah. We're just, we're gentlemen. What is this? Yeah. This is tequila. Tequila. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. There we go. We're gentlemen. This is what gentlemen do on a Friday night. Is it Friday? It is Friday. It's Friday someone. It's Friday someone. It's a great to just be with you. I was always a fan. - Perfect kind of. - Yeah, no, it's that kind. I mean, there's no, there's no, when you're home or deciding in the old days, get the newspaper to decide what's playing at the theater and decide what to go, you have no obligation to anyone in Chobas as to how big a, you only have a obligation to my own entertainment. You always, I told you this the first time you went, you wasted movies that especially appealed to me 'cause they were a about something and entertaining. And I feel like they forgot, not always, not that they still do it sometime. How did, but how to mix those two things? So you're not preaching and it's not just, okay, you're right about this issue, but you know what, I wanna be entertained. I don't care that you're right. And don't tell me who the fucking hate. This, let me figure it out. And you're like, you didn't do movies that did not have some nutritious intellectual value, but not at the price of the fucking movie. I always thought the weirdest thing was that the one movie that got protested the most was Basic Insight. What, right? - It was so crazy. No, but it was that, it was that kind of timing and all of a sudden you couldn't, well, it goes back, well, hang on. Let's go back to Kukus Desk. Nurse Ratchet, one of the great parts you could have. But women couldn't play a villain. You were women, it was not, you were not. - Really? - We offered it to Colleen Doherst. We offered it to Annie Bancroft. We offered it to Geraldine Pate. Every actress turns it down. - You're right, she was a non-no, and I'd never seen her. - The respect she was, I know, it was that situation. So now we come up to Basic Instinct and we have a gay, bisexual woman who's an ice pick killer. No, no, no, no, no. It's an offense to the LGBT. And everybody says, we don't say "cute" and "cute." - Well, there was a "cute" wasn't there, it was a part of it then, it was this LGBT. - Gay, but also fucking you. - Right. - In the movie. - Yeah. - Not in life. - No. - By the way, you may have been a cheater. You're a cheater with a very good taste. - Yeah. - I mean that is a great compliment. Because like, I read in the book, I'm not telling tales out of school, everybody thought you were fucking Sharon Stone. You know, Gene Triple Horn, and by the way, right choice. To me, my thing. I mean, I never got a good vibe of Sharon Stone. Pretty, never thought she was sexy. Kind of like Madonna. Like pretty, I just didn't, maybe just me, maybe the sexiest girls in the world, not for me. Kind of cold. Gene Triple Horn. - This was. - Yeah. - So I was standing young lady. - Okay, so you think you know what happens next? Good news. You can now put money on that. Kalshi is America's number one prediction market where the biggest stories in the world and the dumbest questions in pop culture and get the same treatment. A live market, real prices in someone, on the other side who thinks you're wrong. Look at how insane everyone gets about who's playing the next James Bond. A tabloid mentions any British actor who looks passable in a tuxedo. Jack Loudon, Calum Turner. Some kid named Jack Barton who was in two episodes of a show. I can't remember and the internet explodes. Retreat gossip columns. Like they're coming out of the Vatican. Fine. If we're going to believe rumors anyway, we might as well get paid for it. A $100 bet on Loudon would make you $217 if he gets the gig. On Calshi, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. Download the Calshi app and use code random to get $25 when you trade $25. K-A-L-S-A-I, Calshi. Trade what is next? 18 plus only. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Calshi products are not available in all jurisdictions. Crisis values and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calshi.com/regulatory. And just, there was just something more warm there. Right. You know. Anyway, I'm sorry, I got a lot of attention on that. But yeah, basic ins and gut got-- So we had-- So we were up there in San Francisco. And also the gay community is protesting. But to the point where we got 40 SWAT members protecting the thing from attacks and all of this. And one of the other people in the book, which I'd take offense with, is Joe Esterhouse, who was the writer of basic instinct-- He was so hot for a while. So in his contract, he had nobody could touch his thing. And Paul Verhover in the director and I were-- we had something needed to work on. He would not touch it, wouldn't change anything. Now we get up there. We bring Paul, and we bring Joe Esterhouse in on the meeting in San Francisco. And the group of LGBT says, you know, we know where you live. He's assuming we know you're from the Bay Area. And we know where you live. And Joe takes me-- I hear you, yeah. Well, I think we could make some changes. He folded like that, man. Is that right? He just folded. Well, what do you mean folded? She still-- He wasn't-- Well, no, he wasn't. He started-- we were back at him. What was it originally that they-- No, it was always just the way it is. But all of a sudden, he was saying, well, yeah, as you were maybe we can change it around. And he always said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's so interesting to me that even back then, there were people-- and this is on the left. Because you know, the right wing has always had people who were too comfortable with violence for political ends. But now the left does, too. And this is going back-- this is '92, is when basic instinct came out. So for people back then to be saying, well, we know where you live. Now we call that doxing. Yeah. Doxing. Doxing. You know, Trump did it the other day. He came out, Senator Tom Cotton's personal cell phone number, because he didn't like his position on daylight savings time. No, really. Cotton has been the most-- avid supporter right wing. You could ask for more of an ally. I know. Then Tom Tai is crazy. And that's his psychosis. You were very good tonight with the Senator, too. And it's nice-- it's nice to see freedom when you're not running for re-election and all of a sudden you come out. But you reminded him about a couple of things. Oh, I didn't think you had been staying to watch the show. I thought you went back to the hotel. Well, you didn't want to miss your favorite show. No, I know. No, it was good. Oh, I appreciate it. Yeah. No, you're in knowledge and extraordinarily. And the other issue, you know-- That's from my father. That's from your father? He was a newsman. He was. And a funny guy. But you saw what? Are you a big newspaper reader? Yeah. I mean-- What do you read? You know, it's sad that in the old days, you could read one newspaper and think you pretty much had the truth. That doesn't exist anymore. Every news-- it's sort of like going back to the original days of the Republic, which came up in your fantastic Ben Franklin movie that you did. There's your streaming for you. Great later in life part. Way better than Bad Grandpa. Even though he was kind of a bad grandpa. But a little more intellectual this one. But in those early days-- Yeah. Like candidates like Jefferson and I forget how-- They had their own newspapers. Franklin? Yeah, Franklin. And they would attack it. And we're kind of back to that. Like I can't get everything I need to know about anything just from The New York Times or The New York Post, which is conservative. I love the free press because they try to be, I think, more where I am. A liberal, but not going for the bullshit. Right. But I have to read all of them to really feel like, OK, now I have the full picture. So I have a brother, Joel, who I love deeply. Who is a devout, total, complete mega. Mega. Joel-- From the book? Joel from the book, who I love, is a complete mega. And it's really cause-- I mean, it really caused some issues over his last few years. You can't let it rupture you. You know, I know, but I find it one day. But I ask, Joel, what do you read? But what newspaper, just to you? What newspaper do you read for this information that you give me? I read the Epoch Times. The Epoch Times. How would you describe the Epoch Times to people who don't read the Epoch Times? It is a religious, Asian, fundamentalist, very right-wing-- Very, very right-wing. Maybe very right wing. - Almost conspiratorial, you might say at times, yeah. Yeah, the epoch comes. Well, that's the problem. Is if people get comfortable with their own sort of prejudices, it makes life easier. You'd, I feel like my life carved out of life that is as difficult as I could have carved out for what I do. It'd be so easy just to preach to one side. - Right. - Anytime you're trying to just call balls and strikes, they're both gonna be mad at you. And I welcome their hatred quite frankly at this point. What are they gonna do? I won the Mark Twain Award. I've been certified. I've been on 23 years on HBO. I mean, how bad can it be? Okay, there's a lot of people bedroom. - 23 years. - Just on HBO. Plus another nine on politically incorrect. I know, I'm 70. I'm 70. - No, man, you're 70. - Yeah. - You look good, man. You look good. - So do you. - Yeah, you look good, man. So do you. - You. - Look at every heroine. - We like what you're like, you like what you're doing. And I said, that's so good, man, that's fabulous. - I'm glad we're doing Spanish improv now. - No, yeah. - I can keep up with that. - Did you ever do improv? I never knew to do that. You didn't, you didn't. - I would never even try. I know I'd fuck it up. You know, like when you get out, we're on stage with a partner or two or three people and they go, "Give me a location and give me an activity." - Well, you're doing an acting class. It's an exercise. - So you've done it. - Yeah, I've done it. I'm not, you know, actually I wasn't bad at it. But you gotta be, you know, I just took a long time, a long time to get over stage fright. I was not, and inherently, guy, comfortable out on the stage. I was pretty shy, kind of introverted. So, and I've said it a couple of times. And then somebody fucked me up really on with telling me, says, "The camera can tell when you're lying." - But acting is lying. It took me such a long time to really find out. But I could say exactly what happens. - I can't trust acting. - I'm so painful. I mean, I used to just kind of wipe the makeup off, get down on the camera, and met the acting. It was so hard, and it was actually, it was, it was failed attraction, you know. I'm meeting the script, you know, my character, my character, okay. He lives in your cooking. I live in your cooking. He's a lawyer, but, you know. - It's so perfect for you. - What an idiot not to want to close it. - He loves all of these kids. - He's an adult who, you know, could be all this. And then I said, "Wait a minute." And then I said, "No, no, it's about lying. "Exactly. "Is lying, acting is how effective you are at convincing people." Because there's no possible way that you could have the emotions organically at every moment. So it's a craft to give the impression, and this is why I don't think we're artists. We're craftsmen. I got into a fight actually with Bill Hurt. Literally a physical fight. When it's with Bill Hurt. - William Hurt, from-- - William Hurt, from his ego, bless his soul. - Body, I mean, what was he working with? - Body with Kathleen Turner. - Kathleen Turner. - You're a lighter, a paramour. - Right. - And then-- - Who wouldn't? - Yeah. - I always think it's funny what people are picking about. A guy will drive across town or for the right coffee, argue about the freshness of a wine and send back a steak. And he walks into a gas station, grabs whatever nicotine pouches closest to the cash register and calls it a day. Somewhere in there, the standards just dropped. If you want a pouch that actually feels premium, check out Lucy Breakers, a few on the club brand and team love them. They were developed by scientists from Harvard and Cal Tech, who spent three years engineering this thing. The Breakers line has a built-in capsule. You bite down, get that satisfying click, and it releases a fresh layer of flavor on demand. Tobacco-free made in the USA. Once you've had a breaker, the basic stuff feels like a rough draft. For a limited time, our customers get 20% off their first order by using code random at lucy.co. That's code random at lucy.co. After you purchase, don't ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. And here comes the fine print warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Now, there's a woman who is pretty, but also sexy, as opposed to some other one. I keep shitting on Sharon Stone, although we asked her on this show when she said, "I don't like you." But I never liked you either, really. You know, although she was great in Casino. But in Casino, she's playing a heartless poor. I'm not saying that's what you're talking about. She was spectacular. She was spectacular. Yes, she was, and it was a great part, was one of those things you hoped for. That was when I got in the book, my director, Paul Behrhoven, I can never figure out exactly whether-- I know how much he-- I don't know if he had fucked up, he was just wanted, but he had done some action picture with her before. I mean, we had everybody turned the part down, right? Because Paul, God bless him. And he's a Dutch director out of here, so it's better as his soldiers of war. Fabulous director. Yeah, he's a big name and director. He makes director. So we were auditioning the ladies, you know, for-- the bass against it. And he would keep saying, yeah, yeah, you know, there is nudity. There is a lot of them that say, Paul, easy. There's nudity, and you need to know there's nudity. So I said, you know, he's scaring the shit. No, they have to know. I know they have to know. We saw a coup, but you got to go-- That was the big thing, was this. My role. Yeah, to be able to stop now. So I remember going through, and then he-- I was away. And he did a test with Sharon. And I said, wow, she's fantastic. She says she was great. And he was just consumed with her in his part. And what happens is that because also you're a producer, or you have a backup, people think, you know everything, or you know, so they don't-- is it actually the-- well, he's fine. He's just producing. So I was starting to get a little pissed off, the attention that she was getting, the great part, and all this. So we had a little bit of a meeting called to Tom Paul near the end of the picture in the film. And his intent is, in the trailer with me, we're just talking, you know, adamantly. And all of a sudden, he gets an aneurysm with something up here in his foot and blood just pours. - Who is this? - And Paul. - This is the director. - Paul Verbenhoven? - Yeah, the director. - Yeah. - So this blood just pours, pours out. And so everybody's outside, jokes are being nervous about us having this discussion. And Paul comes out of the trailer. - Oh, my God. - Comes out of the trailer. Blood just pouring out all over him. And so this whole thing started, we had this big fight, and all that. We never touched him, but he had this-- - People think we lead such privileged lives. - I just would like to say to these people, we literally spilled blood out of our nose for what we do. But truly, the stress level in this business, especially a movie. A movie is like a startup company that, I mean, nowadays, it could easily cost two, $300 million. So the pressure to, like, not fuck it up, to say on schedule, when you're dealing with people are very different ideas about how it should go. It's amazing, blood doesn't come out of every place, no. I mean, that's the level it's on. I don't think people know that. - Well, that's why there's so many blowups on set. - You know, I mean, a good point earlier, Bill, which was during the television series, we would shoot a 52-minute film in seven shooting days. Right, that's how long an hour took seven. And when I realized in relation to seven filming days, versus the 50, 60, 70, 80-day schedules-- - A movie. - That a movie has. The disparity, sometimes, if the scripts were both good, wasn't that much. So I, it just wasn't that much. It's the extra days. - Well, you know, it was just, it was a luxury. It was certainly wonderful, and movies are-- - More production value. - That's the main difference. - Well, you know, and you get the helicopter shot and all that. - Yeah. - But what I always felt was, I was really good on story. And the reason I'm so good on story was three summers, two and a half years ago. of them in college or one after, I spent at this place called the National Playwrights Conference. Oh yeah. And the Eugene O'Neill Theatre. I read about it. And they would bring up seven like new plays and over the period of summer. Yeah. And there were some major motherfuckers who came out of that. John Gwear, he's a little whore with Sam Shepard. Sam Shepard. Yeah. All these guys. Yeah. And you as part of the acting group would be on the sidelines while the writer was the playwright and the director would talk and would change structure around and everything else. So I watched for three seasons about script and structure and purposes, which really made a difference. And my point is only that with the success of Cookers' Yes and the low budget and everything, I always felt really guilty about how much money he was spending for two hours of entertainment. You know? I mean, I believe in how much money we were spending, you know, so true. It's so true. I mean, you could save the, you could save half the African country. Right. But even in my brief acting career in the 80s, I saw the same thing. Like, wow, you really think anyone is going to see my shoes in this scene. They're not. And yet you're obsessing about it. And like we're. And the beauty, if I could do a good movie that had a little food for thought as you, as it had a little message after I'd entertain the people after they walked away from the theater and rather than just simply okay, to entertain you for two hours and goodbye, left you as something that, that to me was the. Something you'd want to talk about when the movie was over. Exactly. You know? It was a exciting part of the whole process and the dream. Yeah. That's what you did as well as anybody ever did. That's, to me, that's your legacy, like all the movies, you know, and that run that you had, you know, not just the basics of fatal attraction. And, you know, one that never. What? The Roses was good. Oh, all of them. All of them. Black Rain. Black Rain was not mentioned as one of your. I know. And the game. I didn't mention we could. The game was Sean Penn? Yeah. Yeah. We shouldn't have meant. I included. I included this sequel to romance in "Jule the Lyle" because it was just. It was a. Perfect example. And traffic. All of you are wrong. We're traffic. You know? But you left out this closure, which I always thought. I mean, first of all, I mean, we have to, like, be honest, it's a bit of a cheat. It's a movie about sexual harassment. But, to me, more, is harassing you, because, as we know, most of the people in America who are victimized by sexual harassment are men by beautiful women. We just get. Would you get this bitch off of me? I'm always saying this. This hot bitch is not going to leave me alone. And yet, what a great. What a grand entertainment. Yeah. We got away with it. We got away with it. Absolutely. We got away with it. And you got away with it. We got away with it. And people were still talking about sexual harassment. Yeah. But it was just, you know, look, some people are just movie stars and you want to watch them and some people aren't. If I went back in time and talk to the guy, but they looked at the direction, that's what I would have said to him. I would have left out all the shit about, but he's just like the character. He's with this and he's that. He's like, you know what? Some people are and some people aren't. This guy is. People are going to want to watch him. You're a director. You can get that. Even I can see that. Yeah. I mean. And somehow I always. I don't know. They were always for contemporary. I was attracted. And I just was attracted to guys stuck with a moral, the limit decision about making the right choice and not. And I was fortunate enough. I found out in failure traction. Because we had the first day at least I had the first, you know, sex scene with Glenn and cheating. And I came back to my house in the movie and I get in the bed and I shake up all the sheets to make it look like I slept there last night when I had them, but just the audience laughed. And I remember Sherry Lansing turning to me like, I can't believe it. They've forgiven you already and it's just Michael, Michael, you are very fortunate. The audience has liked you. They will forgive you. So you can push it. You can take chances where you're a bad guy. And you know, because people have those real emotions, you know, whether whatever they might be, they're seven deadly sins and then do you make the right decision or not? And that was the sort of dilemma that I seemed to kind of set up and allow the pictures which I didn't realize at the time, but in writing the book, I became clear about it. It's the same in politics. If they like you, look at Trump. The people who like him forgave things that nobody else got. I thought the fucking thing was over in 2015 or 2016 when he said John McCain is an award hero. I was like, that is a bridge too far for Republicans. They will. John McCain is not a war hero. Well, I had some issues with how he handled an album. I'm like, everybody was like, well, and they were like, next, like, fucking folded on that one. I was like, okay, now when we got to I grabbed Pussies, it was like, well, if McCain is an award hero, how bad is I grab? Twelve years of the apprentice. Twelve years of the apprentice, that was a hit show. That was on 12 years. I think it was 12 years. Wow. And it was just that character you're fired. I knew him and for the same reason, I only got, you know, one governor of California while Reagan at one time, 12 years, and they just went with him. He was the boss. Do you ever meet him? Uh, Donald? Yeah. Oh, sure. I played golf with him. He was with my birthday. He knows everybody. This month. You know, I'm having dinner with him next week at the White House again. Oh, great. After the whole thing about Mark Twain and shit that he tried to stop me from getting the Mark Twain shit on me, ever since the dinner, he, you know, the first one. It was like, yeah, he, like he thought I was going to go MAGA, he, it's crazy. Anyway, and then out of the blue, let's have dinner. Great. I said, great. He said, I won't make fun of you at like, or I won't talk shit about you after the dinner like I did the last time. I said, you can do say what the fuck you like about me. I'm just glad we're talking. I think people need to talk. Yeah. I could. That's my big thing. I totally, you know, totally free. Nobody's talking. They're just doing social media stuff, uh, talking to themselves. No, I, I knew him, you know, I'm known him in New York. Um, you know, he was, he was a funny guy sort of a self-deprecating sense of humor. A funny guy. You know, and, uh, you know, I'm funny on purpose. Yeah, no, just, you know, you know, he's, you know, I had been nothing about this sort of, this sort of fascist, uh, uh, fat mentality. It's just, uh, over that, but listen, you know, what's going to happen after these midterms? I think there's a lot of guys forget the present. There's a lot of guys. A lot of people are in some serious trouble. Well, first of all, I think he's, I think he's cooked. Yeah. And I gotta say, to be perfectly honest, which is what I'm always trying to do, nobody was more alarmed about him. I used the term slow-moving cool before he was elected the first time. And I was way out front on, he's never going to concede in elections. But I gotta say, after all is said and done, he's been, now it's been 10 years, you know, it didn't, let's be honest. Our lives are good. Yeah. It looked like he didn't fucking end the world. Right. A little of it was hysterical. But it's, you know, for good reason, you know, he is a maniac who does fischistic things and pals around with likes dictators and you know, that kind of shit and ice and just scary shit. I don't want, I don't want the unpredictability. No, that's true. Yeah. The fact that this is how you do business and everything else is keep everybody on their toes, not sure which way we're changing your mind, you know, it's been, truthfully, I think this is the most, I was born in 1944 and this is the worst time I can remember in my lifetime. Not just the States, just worldwide. Really? Yeah. Well, I'm like, I was involved in World War II, but no, yeah, no, this is my far, the most. Yeah. That's true. I mean, you're right. I mean, this is the late 60s. There was a lot of violence in the late 60s. Certainly. You're right about it in your boat. Yeah. I know there was, but not on this scale and there's sort of issues that I've seen. I mean, you know, just that alone on me. I know. That is like, but that's like third behind AI, you know, what's going to AI and you know, let's not forget Islamic terrorism is still out there. like lots of. I'm on environmental weapons here. Nuclear weapons, environmental. Yeah, it's like, and yet we're, look at us. We're here. There was a beautiful sunny day. It's like you can't have too much cognitive dissonance between-- - You know, but we're really entertainment business. They're happy to see us. (laughs) Because-- - Who is this? Oh, listen to you, they're happy to see you. - Oh, you know what I'm happy to see. - They, you know that. - My father, my father, right at the very end, the only thing that he watched was ultimate fighting and bill. - I used to get, I told you-- - You, he loved you, but he was 102 years old and-- - I told you, I have all the notes he sent me, which were like, I told you, like in his handwriting in decipherable so they would also put-- - The typed out. - The typed out, which was like just the fact that he knew I wanted both, and that he wanted me to hear what he had to say. I mean, and of course it brought up all sorts of memories about my own father, you know. I mean, I went to see his saving private Ryan, which came out in 98. I think my father had died a few years before World War II and I mean, remember the movie, which is my favorite movie. It begins with present day, which is the late 90s, and the guy who's, sorry, private Ryan, before we flash back to the war, looked exactly like my father, looked exactly like every 65-year-old man did back then, the same exact kind of shirt that they wear, just, you know, and they're walking the graveyard. Already, I'm in a puddle. - Right. - All the shit about my father, which, you know, came out at the funeral, but then like, you know, you don't know when it's gonna come out. - Yeah. - That kind of, and just, I, when the movie ended, 'cause they flashed back to present day dad, like I was sitting there for like 20 minutes before I get out of that theater. I was just devastated. - No, it was, it was a powerful, but he, he, he, dad is also one of the last note writers. - He was fantastic about the lost art. Everything's an email text, right? - No, no, personal note, you know. - He meant the world to me. And that lunch I had with him in Maureen Down. - Yeah. - Not the one of your many amazing. - It's a great lady. - You know. - Let me see the book for a second. I want to, I want to show you something. - Yeah, that's, let's show it like a professional would. - I was looking for the poem that he, - Oh, I know what you're talking about. - That, that, that he wrote for me. - All right. - Yeah. - Michael. Am I a good father? I asked my son. He took a pause too long for me. I waited and waited for him to answer. And finally he said, ultimately, but the pause was all I heard. The silence was so loud. I was waiting for some kind of words, something that would make me proud. How could I be so dumb that I'd never heard the answer in the pause when he spoke not a word? I became a good father. It took me too long to see when I needed him more than he needed me. I mean, you know. - Well, you know, show people they, they just have so much talent. - Yeah. - They're not always good fathers, but like, there it is, even just as a poet, it's pretty talented. I mean, that was a pretty amazing moving poem. - Yeah. - You know, I feel like you have angst. I'm just getting this from the book about your second family, like fatherhood. Like, oh, you know, I'm a better father to my second family kids. And of course, the camera and the younger one is gonna be like, boy, why couldn't you have been as good of a, and it's like, it's just a silly question because you're a better father in your second family 'cause you're a better you. I know 'cause I'm 70. I know what I was like at 40. I just wasn't as good a person. I had too much angst, too much I have to get there, too much I have to do, too much testosterone in my body, and I became better. So of course, the second family, those kids are gonna get a better you, too. - Also, yeah, I'm absolutely right, but you know, the first part is about, I don't think this idea of balancing work and family, it's bullshit. You can't, in other words, your life either takes over with work and your family takes second place, or people make a decision with a family, if they're fortunate enough. And so for me, for my father, it was after he had this helicopter crash, and he was in early '70s, and he's with a buddy who's flying the helicopter, and they hit a pits aerobatics, taking you off at a road away. The pits goes down, blows up, the 18-year-old pilot is dead, and the instructor dies instantly. Kirk is at there at 40 feet in the air in the helicopter, and the helicopter comes out at 40 feet, rotors still going gasoline pouring out, and it doesn't catch fire. And I go see my father in the hospital, and he has that broken a single bone, but he is black, but not blue, black. His whole body got one side, right? - From burn. - From just the blues, from hitting the ground. - Oh, the blues. - And the first thing happens to him is he says, why am I alive? And this 18-year-old kid is dead, and a pilot. And so it started him with a wonderful rap by rap, by Volpe. He began to study the Old Testament at '70, '72, after the accident, a chapter each week, working on the Old Testament. And Bill, it totally changed this man at our old relationship because it was now he needed me. And he was, heart was open, he was warm, he was familial, he was spiritual, and you know, made such a difference. And for me, after my cancer, about that point of my career and everything else, and when I saw the affection that my children gave me during that time, as well as Catherine, it was, you know, but only because I had the success, the career, success that allowed you, you know, to fill away, you had no more mountains to climb, and getting so grateful that you had that to share with. That is the key, no more mountains to climb, like you're not in competition with anybody. When I was younger when we're all in competition, it's literally, you know, oh my gosh, you got this part, you know, blah, blah, blah. But just in general, and now it's like, if it ended tomorrow, this is as good as I ever thought it would get, and I don't expect anything more, I don't expect to be playing stadiums, you know, and you don't expect to be playing the romantic lead anymore. Yeah, it's okay. We had a great run, and they're still having it, you know, but I still think he was too old for a coup was nice. I do. - No, he was. - By the way, some impressionist, like, member Frank Gorshin, he was so good. - You do? - No. - He's impressive, dad? - Yeah. - I thought it was fantastic. Like, he should have done, somebody should have done a sketch of like, this is what Kouku's Nest would have been if they had cast Kirk Douglas. - Get your hands up. - Get your hands up. - Get your hands up. - Get your hands up. - How many of you nuts want to break out of here tonight? - Right, wouldn't that have been a good skit? - Would be. - Frank Gorshin, yeah, he was growing. Remember that age when they, like we would watch the tonight's show on those shows? And it was like, a lot of impressions, rich little. And it was just always to me the most entertaining thing. - Don Rickles, please. - Oh, that too, well, Rickles. - Don Rickles, the insulting, when I look at the things that you could say and do now, I'm cross the lines, his roast, his roast of President Reagan. It's like, you know, it's priceless. - Well, he wasn't president that, yeah, but. - No, I love all this stuff in your book about the rat packers that you got to meet when you were younger. I mean, your parents kind of, your real parents kind of seem to have like a, Relationship that reminded me of the When I read the Sinatra biography by his valet, which is by the way a great biography You know he divorced or was separate. Yeah, I guess divorced I don't know whatever the Catholics don't like divorced and not whatever But he was not he was not with the original Nancy, but she I didn't really she lived out here And like a lot of nights he would go over to her house where her his kids lived and play with the kids and fall asleep on the couch As if he lived there and then he'd go fuck Avergarder the next day You know, I mean that that was kind of like how people were back then But the kids saw even though the folks were separated. There was no tension Is that the I mean that was why I realized why I was so blessed like who my folks got divorced And I remember my father came back to see us for the first time in New York But I was like six years old and came in the door of the apartment and gave my mother a kiss and hug Hello, I spoke down crying because you were ready for this this tension that you knew about But they got along great and then when my mother remarried Bill Who was Was my surrogate father and took was the first one to say that it was a wonderful man and dad married and who was my stepmother But 65 you the four of them You say you see entertain and have dinner together and all that so the I really have a deep appreciation for step parents And it's a lot of shit always talked about them, but those people that You know out of the love of their spouse except the kids for another marriage So I think it was a really a big help for me that I didn't once they got divorced. There wasn't that friction But they see the difference between generations is your father. He was like quick to go You know what this ain't working? I'm out right champion is starting to run corner right one day Whereas you are from the generation that was like we got to stay together for the kids Which turns out like probably isn't that great for the kids and isn't that great for you You know, I mean, I've heard a lot of guys say, you know, I got cancer and thank God my wife was there for me And I always think yeah, and maybe she gave it to you not her but like the tension the stress of being in a relationship That really kids you we got to say together for the kids is a big big question mark Yeah, it's a big question mark. I mean it's financial reasons also two households that all of that But you know the idea because the kids you kids can take and feel it man. They just they feel it. They know it. They can see it Um, and um, so it's better To go to two households with where your individuals are comfortable But that's a happy ending with your boy who was yeah Cameron. Yeah, he's a guy. He's raised give me true lovely lovely grandchildren Lua and writer and and Cameron is great and all three of my kids are actors They all of them are actors even after you know this and It's it's tough. I mean part of it. I mean it is a little bit in the DNA And it's also just when you do grow up around it. I love that part. I mentioned to you tonight. I'm real time Like the fact that you were in the cutting room when they did psycho as a teenager because you were on the lot And that your first job was like go for on getting coffee on sparticles It's it's almost like when you see the guy in the major leagues and you see oh he was a bad boy He was you know, I think you know griffy kind griffy. It's not that he wasn't awesome But it's like by the time he got to the major leagues It just wasn't a weird life. No, it wasn't a big transition. It was in your blood. I remember sneaking into a studio When did a visit dad when he was doing this movie called The Bad and the Beautiful. Yeah sure Kim Novak Oh, she was a hot one. She was a hot one and I came in you know stuck in And he was right in the middle. I'm doing a love scene with Kim Novak Oh, and you know and and I was if if you were Kim Novak and I was dad and the camera was over there And I was over by the camera and I'm watching dad I was whenever age over 12 And he's doing this whole scene is going on dad and kissing one Jesus look at this is like wow Look at and also dad. I was in his I was in his sightline. So also and then goes I didn't know what he meant. He said I had to get out because I was in his sightline looking at him I've done that to people. Yeah, I don't like people in my sightline either No, no, it's distracting Before I you're trying to either get an erection or stop from getting an erection One of the other you're trying to do. No, but now you see your kid talking about exactly a boner killer You learned and you realized the the advantages of second generation Because the advantages was seeing them at these dinner parties They were real people. They're insecurities. They're foibles. They're how could you not have become a dog? You know what? I once said Oh fuck Darrell Hall here for put the podcast rock star. I love hauling notes and like some of the stuff he's done is amazing and You know, I just was talking about being a rock star. He was a great looking guy as I said, you know How do you keep a marriage together when the women are throwing themselves after anyone? You don't He was just so honest about he was like, you know We are just so you know limited in like and You know, it's it's not noble, but you know I mean, I do think it causes the I know in my life People think I'm stressed from work work his life life is stress The most stress in my life has been from relationships Even good ones contain quite a bit of tension I I can I could imagine Well, I'm just thinking new I mean you're very social, but um You consider yourself a bit of a loner? I like to be alone quite a bit Um, it gives you serenity by so many people. Well, I think we all are we we don't live on the prairie anymore We meet like three people in your life who can't keep monogamous then yeah What did that a fucker goat you know, it's just you have to go graded on a curve of how hard it was and for you It was just no one no one's asked So, you know, it's it's you know, it is what it is, but It's my first marriage. I couldn't believe it when I was what I was working on the book in Geodrome It's a lovely lady beautiful studying Met her that Jimmy Carter's inauguration. She was at George grad school. Wow. It's her seventy-six seventy January 29 January 20 of 1977 my twenty-fourth back went back went back with actually Jack Nicholson or one bay three of us were back. I met this woman totally fellow January 20th fell head over heels March 20th 1977 60 days later I married her. Wow Now I'm thinking I married her. So I was probably sitting in the invitations out 30 days after I met her. Wow. I mean How you know how crazy and and then age difference, you know doing nothing about Hollywood Here the like so we should be struck it be struggling with the best intentions from the from the beginning and had separation for the way and and she knew nothing about alcohol or drugs or this or that um And you know we just get off On the wrong foot it was it was probably I mean I file that under Things we do when we're young that we would never do when we're older That way look back and go really I was that dumb. I know, but I was it I wasn't that young I said the same thing. I did young men take a long time to mature We do young stupid things when we're not exactly young Especially if it's easy. Yeah, you know, so I get it um But yeah, I've you're not the first guy I know I know somebody who said well, I I'm I knew in in an hour. I'm was going to marry her right I was like well, you know, you're divorced now Yeah, it's like It's it's almost amazing. You've been married. Have you been married? Never never I consider that one of my greatest accomplishments No, no kids. No kids. Not to my knowledge Well, you know, but you know by now They'd be checking the ratings man You know by now Carol Lee for the great female comedian just having great bitch you in I don't have any kids that I know Of No, I never wanted kids or that's the one thing I've maintained steady - Child going up? - No, I have a sister. Yeah. - Where is she? - She's back in New Jersey. - Yeah. - So younger, older, you know? We have classic sibling rivalries of, you know, when you were eight and I was four, you beat me up because you could, and then later I'm a bratty teen. You know, it's just, you keep up. - Of course, you know, we love each other. But some of that childhood stuff, you will die with it. You will go to the grave with just the same sort of little things that you nitpicked each other about when you were eight. - But can she imagine what's happened to you? Or can she believe it? - You know, it's so funny. It was to ask that because like the first time I had dinner with Trump, I mean, no, like we're raised by liberal parents. I've never voted Republican in my life. You know, I always say to my well friends about the last election. We voted for the same person, okay? You're just why she lost. So, but my sister is like, you know, MSNBC is on all day. She's just died in the world, Democrat. So like when I saw Trump, it was like, she just really didn't want to talk to me. - Right. - And I was always just like, could we just, you know, give one minute of time to it's a little impressive that your brother is at a private dinner with the president at stake. - And then we can go right onto one and ask all I have. We just give me one minute to be a, just impress for one minute as my sister, that yeah, okay, that's it. - So, you know, I did American president, and there's a scene in the movie where we're having a dinner for the French prime minister, like fall in love with the net bad news. - And remember, six months after the movie's over, I get an invitation on the White House. President Clinton is about inviting me to a dinner at the White House for President Shirak. For press. So how cool is this? I mean, Mrs. Halvin, well, I thought that out. And so I go to the White House, and you know, there's like a receiving line is going for dinner, and President Clinton, and Hillary Clinton, and President Shirak, and there's a White for standing there. And as the line's coming up, and I see him, he looks at me, and I see him whispering something to President Shirak. And then I get up to where he is, and he goes Michael. Come here, you stand here, you stand here, when I am. Okay, and then he went and get President Clinton goes, gets to the line, and he comes up to me. He says, hello, Mr. President. You know, and I have this series of pictures, and it's just, it's like, if they could see me now, you know, it's one of those moments. If they can see you now. Yeah, I know, I know, I'm not for the all frame, but I knew it's like, it's just so, it's like you think the magic part of this business and. See, that's something you movie stars get that people like me don't. Oh, you just talk about dinners with the, you know, I'm not feeling sorry for you. No, I'm not feeling sorry for you. No, no, no, no. To a lot of people they're like, yeah, he has dinner with the crazy president. He made me the crazy president, but he is the president, and I'm glad I have his ear for a night. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's in, in advance. No, no, no. It's just like the, just like the one I had a year ago. Just me, and there's somebody else, he told me, he said, you can bring anyone if you alluded to Cleff friends. So I'm bringing one of my alluded to Cleff friends. And Kid Rock, and my producer, Chocolabella, well, that's the dinner. It just like it was the first time with me and there was Dana White. Right. It's like, you know, it's, it's small, it's, it's small, that he lives. That's how he lives. He talks to guys at night at dinner while you're eating steak. Right. You want to, you want to get into Trump's brain, do that. Right. Have dinner with some guys who are fun at night eating steak. Right. We're not reading the briefing books in this way. That's not how we get information. Right. People are saying. Right. Be one of those people saying. Yeah. Right. Right. So that's what he, and so you give him the information. Well, I'm, I mean, you know, I don't have an agenda. I treat it like this. But, you know, shit will come up. It did the first time. Lots of issues. The left got mad at me because I honestly reported he was perfectly fine. With anything that was contradictory and I'm sorry. That's what happened. And that's where you're going back. For a second time. Yeah. That's why I'm going back. Exactly. Well, also, because I proved myself that I'm not seduced by him. No, I hear you. Listen, I've been trying for a while. You know, I'm working for the United Nations, a messenger piece of my issues. You know, I'm saying, we know how much you want this, this Nobel Peace Prize. We know how much. So why not except for the move today with Russia, for the gas fuel, which really bothered me. But we're trying to solve this war, Ukraine. Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons. Yes. They gave up the nuclear weapons after the fall of the Soviet Union. So why don't we, in this negotiations, this can happen. Why is it in Zelensky suggest and the president can make it happen that Russia and the United States dramatically reduce their number of nuclear weapons? And if President Trump can pull this off, I promise you he would be getting the Nobel Peace Prize. So basically end this war and part of the peace considerations is a reduction, a dramatic reduction of nuclear weapons. Well, if you're saying that the parts of Ukraine that Putin bit off the… The Lesk. Yes. Yes, the Donbass region. Right. Which, look, I'm not saying he should have done it, it's awful. But it is full of a lot of Russians. There are people there. It's on the border who want to be more Russian. There are people all over Ukraine. Ukraine was the cradle of Russia. Kiev is where the Russian state sort of was born. But then things changed. They're a separate group, Ukrainian, and they should have their own separate country. Let's not be confused about that. But if you're saying that we could trade, tell Putin, okay, you can have this Donbass region. If you make this deal about nuclear weapons, that would be saving face, it would be great. Because we could say, okay, you get this, which he's probably going to somehow get anywhere. Exactly. And then you get something for it. And then you look like a hero. So I've been… You know, we've been trying to sell that. I'm trying to sell that. Good for you. You know. Look at that. No, really. And 82. That's it. And by the way, that is exactly what celebrity should be used for. So people are just blown away by celebrity in a way that it's very hard to… I mean, they know because it happens to lots of people. They're just crazy about whatever celebrity does or it says. And there is a lot of power in that. There is. During the Cold War, this is where it came back. During the Cold War, I think it's called the USIA, the United States Information Agency. Yeah. What they did is they took movie stars, like my father, and they set them on tours behind the Iron Curtain, speaking at universities, because they knew a name as movie stars. And of course, they got a tremendous response, and it was a very effective thing. I mean, celebrities, they always want you and events to raise their money, you know, you get more people attend, and all that, and then they get upset when they talk. Like, they got to maybe just open your mouth, or, you know. Do you know the member of the band Blood Sweat and Tears? Sure. You do? Oh, well with their heads. I can't remember the whole thing. You made me so very happy. And also, Span and Wheel, Spin and Round, okay, they made a documentary about them that they went behind the Iron Curtain. This is before the fall of the Iron Curtain, this is like the late '60s. They went on some tour, like for the government, like Romania, places like that, that were like, you know, you're in the coffee shop, and you realize there are two people who are government. The company is communist countries, there's always someone watching you. You know that, and so it was like a creepy tour, but they did it, I forget why, and when they got home, that career was over, like every, yeah, the left shit on them for like, like- Oh, going on. For like, I forget, maybe it was the right, somebody shit on them for like going behind the Iron Curtain, for some reason that was- Well, it just made me think not that issues aren't valid, but like, people just always want to be pissed off, too. A lot of people. Well, I mean, that's the crux of social media, right? I'm interested to see the Iron Sorcerer movie. come out because-- - Yes. - Basically the algorithm is about enemies, about conflict, this is what the attraction-- - Oh, what a writer. - Yeah, he's straight. - No, he would have been a great one to work with. - Well, he even wrote American President. - Oh, he did? - Sure. - Oh. - He wrote American President, first draft of American President, Rob Tussby, was 375 pages long. So they cut it all down and his series West Wing, after that was predominantly based, a lot of the pages that were cut out of the American President movie. - Really? Well, that's his signature move, which is the right move, which is to interweave a romantic story in with the politics. And that's the way you do it. Again, hybrid, you have to do both. Make a movie about something, make it entertaining. - Yes, I do want to see. I almost only want to see movies that have a love storyline. - Yeah, not always. There's been some that-- But that, to me, really holds my interest. - Yeah. - I bet it does. - Does that make me a bad person? - No, no, no. - No, no. - It has to be something going on between-- - Chemistry. - Chemistry, or just, I don't know, maybe I'm subliminating myself in the place of the man. - I'm sure you are. - Sure you are. - Well, I fucked a lot of your bitches. - Yeah. - You know, I-- - You know. - You're reminding me now of a laminate I first met my wife, Catherine. And I said, you remind me that she said to me, that I'm saying to you, I've heard a lot about you Bill. I've read a lot about you. And I guess it's all true. As we said, when I told her the first time I ever saw her, I said, I'm gonna be the father of your children. - Wow. - And she looked to me just so late. Good night. - She did? - She didn't like that? - It was a little, a little, a little aggressive. - It's aggressive, here's how it's wrong. - Did you? - No. - So that, okay, then it's okay. Unless this is-- - Unless she's met the guy, the guy just said that. At least she didn't believe that I never said that to anybody else. - But you didn't. - I hadn't. But she's not gonna believe this. - So you're telling me that man-to-man, honestly, you never told me. - No, I just have to say, I mean, the father. - So it wasn't a lot. You didn't say it's a kind of-- - No, but it could certainly sound like one. - Well. - She said, I've heard a lot about you. - It is, but how, honestly, how could the fuck you know, yeah, she's gorgeous. I know you saw her in Zoro, or was that the-- - Yeah, I mean, trust me, you know, I have a list of movies and actresses where they were like, wow, this movie is worth watching just to watch her face, hereinightly in Pride and Prejudice. I could name many. Okay, it's not just her, I'm not a thing for her. Don't make a thing about it. Just put, like, just a face that is like, you know what, that's a work of art. And I like watching it. - Julie Christie. - Absolutely. Okay, we don't have to go through the whole list. Kim Novak. - Yeah. - Marilyn Monroe and some like it, you know the-- - You got it. - Eva Gardner. She certainly stood the test of time. I could see why Frank was like so sprung on her, right? - A lot of guys. - I mean, well. - Nothing that got there, but there was, you know, totally patchwork. - There was a lot of guys. I mean, that relationship was kind of recapitulated in that great movie, Bugsy, by Barry Levins. Because, you know, a netbending, your girl, and Warren Beatty. And he is just, Bugsy's eagle does not like it that she is a woman who fucks whoever the fuck she was. - Right, right. - You know, that just wasn't a thing back then, you know. - No, it wasn't. Bill, I'm in a happy-- - I'm going to-- - You should go. - My, my, my, I can't, I couldn't not imagine a no more hospitable time, you're really great. This is, I love you, Dan. I feel honored to be here. I'm sorry, I'm not in my best year at four. My guys, I thought I had nodes. - You were awesome. - Right before-- - Okay. Michael Douglas, one hell of a ride. Not, what? It's, it's great. You're great. I'm so flattered. - I can't believe you would do this. - Well, for you to take the time and you clearly read it, I'm really touched because I've learned on this so far very quickly who has read that and who hasn't. And I'm honored and really touched. It was took the time and then-- - It was not an errand. No, I couldn't put it down. Really. (laughing) It was not like, I appreciate that. - I'd like to say, I, you know, did you miss her, but you actually did me. - Oh, okay. - All right, thanks, Bill. - Thanks, Bill. ♪ Club Render ♪ - Thank you for staying up and doing this. - Yeah. - Cool. - Take a picture. - Yeah.