Michael Douglas

Hi, my name is Michael Douglas, and I'm excited to be Conan O'Brien's new friend. I'm going to hold you to that, because you're Michael Douglas. I would pay you to hang with me, and I will pay you $500. I was waiting for what the price would be. I ain't cheap, but I can be had. Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell. Brand new shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens. I can tell that we are going to be friends. Yes, I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hey there, and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. Things are a little different on this episode because I am in New York at the Sirius XM Headquarters. And I'm joined today by my friend, David Hopping. You're my assistant. You traveled with me yesterday. I did. On American Airlines. That's true. We came here, we landed in New York, and we're doing a very fun, cool episode today. We are. But let's talk about our time in New York. Oh, okay. Because when we're together here in the city, we each become slightly different people. I think so. You are obsessed with seeing every Broadway show. I am. Imaginable. Yeah. What have you seen lately? I haven't seen any on this trip yet, but we have a few more days. You're always very nice whenever we come here, and our deal is that you buy me a ticket to a show. Yes. I always say you can go see one show on me. You always pick the most expensive show. Well, sure. And get like a really good seat. Yeah, basically on the stage. Yeah, you've been sitting on the stage for many of the shows you've seen, which has really hurt the shows, I think. It's not good. Yeah. When you were sitting on stage during Death of a Salesman, it took me out of the play. You were there? Yeah. I was there. Oh. Yeah. I stood in the back because I couldn't get a seat. Anyway, you have such a good time. I do. You're always such a sort of an Illinois farm boy when you come here. No, you do. You walk around, and I can see you. That was true. Will you admit? You're a bit of a hick. Okay. No, you look up at the buildings, and you say, I mean, how do they make them that tall? Incredible. You said, well, that's bigger than the silo back home. And I'm always like, David, get over it. You've been here 70 times. Yeah. And I get into conversations with 30 people on street corners. We were almost late today because you were on a corner with just surrounded by people. Well, all these people stopped me, and I'm like, and they're all from Ireland. Yeah. All these kids from Ireland. And so the next thing you know, I was having like a symposium. Uh-huh. And apologizing for how I've represented the Irish here in America. But it was a lot of fun. Yeah. Anyway, we have a good time. Here's the stunning thing. You'd think that Sona would be here with us. Especially because she's in New York right now. She's just, I think, right down the street. She is down the street. Sona's here in New York. And I said, oh, well, that's great. Sona's here for the podcast. No, I find out. She's not here for the podcast. What's she here for, David? She's promoting her own book on Tamron Hall. I think they're recording right now as we're speaking. Yeah, this is what happened. She was my assistant. And now she's here. And I'm like, great. Get Sona in for the podcast. For which she's very well compensated. And she's like, no, I can't make it. I'm on a book tour and I'm appearing on Tamron Hall. Describe Tamron Hall to me. It's a daytime talk show. Okay. So she's out. Tamron Hall to me sounded like a building. Like she's speaking at Tamron Hall. I think it tapes at ABC. So she's in the ABC building right now. Okay. They probably dance when she comes out. Is that a show where they make you dance? I don't think they make you dance. It's not like where you walk down the hallway. What's that show where the whole staff lines up on either side of the hallway? Jennifer Hudson. Jennifer Hudson. Yeah. And is that something that you're made to do? I don't. Surely you have an option. I don't think you do. Can someone call Jennifer and ask? I mean, they make everyone do it. Should we start doing that? They'll have like, you know, a great dame of the theater. Like Helen Mirren. And they make her boogie down a hallway while people are clapping along in rhythm. And they go, Helen, go, Helen, go, go, go, Dame Mirren. And you can tell she's in pain. And they make them do it. Mm-hmm. And they have little cattle prods. If you start to slow down a little. But keep going. Go. Come on. I hope Sona had to do that. So, Sona. Do you find that you are more proud that Sona's like out promoting her own book? And what's my other option? Resentful. Resentful. That's the second one. I'm so glad there were two. Yeah. Resentful. You did this. I didn't mean to do this, but she is now a force in her own right. I was saying earlier, my new goal in life is to get Sona. I'm going to get Sona on the Traders. My new goal is to get Sona on the podcast. That would be the idea that that would be a get for us now. Hey, we got Sona. Can you believe it? She has her own empire. We stole her after Tamarin Hall. She had a book event last night in New Jersey. Yeah. Yeah. She's killing it. Well, and her book, let's give her a plug while we're at it. It's called World's Worst Mom. Yeah. After her bestseller, World's Worst Assistant. World's Worst Assistant. Yeah. I didn't get a piece of any of this, by the way. I've had my people look into it. You wrote the foreword for the first one. I know. That was nice of you. I didn't get anything. Well, she's on the podcast, so isn't like any success that Sona has a success for you? I looked into this. It doesn't translate. No? No. No. These are all people who loathe the podcast, who all buy her stuff. Anyway, no, I wish her all the best of luck. I hope she's having a good time grooving down the hallway over at Jennifer Hudson. She's at Tamarin Hall? I know, but- Okay. She's going to stop by. She's not even doing, she's not even a guest on Jennifer Hudson. She's just going to groove down the hallway while they zap her with electrical charges. Anyway, thrilled about our show today in New York. My guest today is an Academy Award winning actor whose fantastic new memoir, One Hell of a Ride, is out now. I read this book cover to cover. It didn't take me long because it is absolutely fascinating. I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled that he's on the show. This guy's an icon, and to get to sit down and talk to him about this book is a big treat for me. Michael Douglas, welcome. I read your book cover to cover. I'm so impressed already. It was 500 pages. You didn't think I could read, but I can. Oh, I did. It's called One Hell of a Ride, and I have to say, I read the book, and there are times where I'm talking to someone, and they send me the book, and I have to read it as my job. This one I really wanted to read. This is an amazing story. And I want to really start at the beginning, which is undeniable, and it's a big theme in your book, is father-son. Huge theme in this book, the relationship between father and son. And your father, of course, Kirk Douglas, one of the most iconic screen stars of all time, massive star. And he said to you that you had it harder than he did, because he came from nothing. He came from Russian Jewish immigrants and absolute poverty. All he could do was go up. You're his son. And many people would think you've got a leg up, but in a lot of ways, you had a trickier path, which is really what this book is about. Yeah, it is. I would go in for my interviews as a young actor and do an audition. It's just like you. Yeah, that's amazing, the way you act. Oh, look at that. Look at that. And you've got the dimple on the chin. Yeah, a little dimple. And he said, well, thank you very much, but my name's Michael, and I'm trying to make a career. And on the other side of that, just growing up, he was dynamic. I mean, he was just, you know, Spartacus and all the action things. He was the fastest gun drawer of all the actors there were, and putting the back of the holster. Yeah. He developed a little. He developed a little springboard for jumping out of the horses without any effort at all. Vikings walking across the oars. So it was really, really a question of how could I ever be the man that my father is? My God. And so it was intimidating. It tended to make me pretty withdrawal as a young kid. Probably a little hostile against him for the time that he couldn't spend. Well, also, your dad was of that generation that kept a lot of things in. And he had an explosive temper. And a lot of it's generational, but he wasn't afraid to hit, you know, if you needed to be, or thought you needed to be punished. So you grew up, not just in this guy's shadow, but he could be a scary guy to be around. I think your parents divorced when you were five, so you're getting some time with him. Yeah, divorced when we were five. And my mother and my younger brother, Joel, I lived back east with my mother in New York City. We'd go out to see dad on our. Our holidays, and he was usually always working. And the one thing he had was, he was one of seven children. He was the only boy. He had six sisters. And his father never gave him a pat on the back, never even acknowledged him. So I thought that was sort of part of what his rage was. That was his understanding of what the relationship was. Right. And so the one thing that he knew he was going to be was a good father. Yeah. And all of a sudden, he's divorced, the kid's five and three years old. So the problem is when we go out to see him, he's overwhelmed by the amount of pictures he's doing he wants to be a good father so he was pretty intense man yeah he was pretty intense trying to be a good father trying to discipline in the period we had so it was with reluctance that we used to go out for those holidays and yes a capital punishment was was part of the deal yeah you felt more comfortable around your mom and then it would be time to go spend time with your dad and that could be tricky you never knew what's going to piss him off when's he going to blow exactly um one of the things that uh the great pleasure of my career is that your father came on my late night show two times and uh this is a big deal for me he came on after his stroke he had a very debilitating stroke as you know and he had a hard time communicating i don't know that he had done a show yet and it was debated on our staff what should we do so it's live to tape in front of an audience we had him on and he was incredible and i just looked at the interview and this is what he said he said this is about you on my show to me um he said i think michael's a much better actor than i am and i was a good actor he was very complimentary of you uh on the show he came on twice and it was quite a journey because you couldn't imagine him saying that to you when you were 10 11 12 and your dad lived to see you become this iconic actor producer in your own right he wouldn't have been able to say that if you're earlier on could he no his best rock after cuckoo's nest i remember was uh if i knew you were gonna be so successful it would be nicer to you which is a funny line but also had some truth to it too it had some truth it had some truth to it but he um he mellowed he married my uh stepmother ann who was my stepmother for 65 years they had two kids peter and eric and that you know eased him out a little bit yeah at the same time my mother remarried when i was 12 to a wonderful man named bill darren who was a broadway producer director and we lived a very middle class life he then lived in westport connecticut we'd go out and see my father um in his by that time star star lifetime um but having these step parents really helped me to be a better person and to be a better person and to be a better person helped tremendously and i thought i've realized now that a fortunate part of my life was these four people got along so well together actually enjoyed each other's company it's very rare so i find myself on the bandstand a lot of time for step parents who get a bad rap a lot of the time but in my case i had two stepmother and a stepfather and out of the their love for their spouses uh accepted the the kids uh accepted us and and and made a big difference a big theme in the book i also wanted to bring up is your father had anger you probably had some anger clearly uh growing up and there's this trick some people can do like michael jordan famously could find a way to be pissed off at someone else and use that to his advantage sometimes he would invent it he would invent a reason why he hated the other team that probably wasn't even true but it helped him there was a lot of in this book you feeling that you had been slighted and getting revenge it was a fuel for you in a lot of ways oh they think i'm a tv actor i'll show them uh they think i can't be a producer i'll show them they don't think i'm a leading man i'll show them and it's a theme throughout the book and i don't know if that's something you picked up from your dad or just it's very insightful of you it's absolutely true something i probably had in my genes but it came from my father which anger is a false sense of energy and you can pump yourself up with anger and it can go a long way in keeping your energy uh going yeah um but somewhere along the line um i felt dismissed in a career career wise yeah uh and used uh that um and i mentioned earlier a little bit of san francisco yeah um as a false sense of energy which ultimately i found exhausting yeah and one of the parts about maturation there are other ways to do it yes besides just being angry well what happens is i've had times in my career in my life where i've felt wronged in some way and i was angry and initially i could use that as a fuel i'll show them what happens later in life is you realize this is robbing me of something right i gotta let this go i've lucked out um this isn't leading me anywhere but it can sure feel good sometimes in the moment and i was looking at your you know your career you produce one flew over the cuckoo's nest your dad really wanted that he had the producing rights he said you do what you can with this and then i can play the main character that jack nicholson got to play he was expecting you to get that for him but he was too old at that point to play the part and you realized as a good producer it's not going to work with my dad and we could make this work with jack nicholson and i was looking at your career you produced one flew over the cuckoo's nest and you had to tell your dad it's not going to be you except i tried harder than that you did try i tried i tried really hard yeah um yeah to i mean it was difficult enough to get the independent financing for the picture we had our director milo foreman and uh milo's was the one and i think i knew it was coming and they said you know your dad is you know kirk i love kirk and they had met each other years before when dad used to work for the usia and go behind the iron curtain yes yeah at a time when uh movie celebrities were the were the only connection uh because people behind the iron curtain seen him and he went to the uh the czech uh film school and met milo knew him years ago and milo said michael it's michael it's not it's not going to work and so i didn't mean to misrepresent that you did try really hard to get your dad this part milo's foreman said it can't be him he's too old and then you have to go to your father and this was a role your father really wanted and you had to say dad i'm a producer on this movie and it's not you yeah conan i i have to tell you and i think it's true for most people i can count the really good parts i've had in my career on one hand yeah and this rp mcmurphy was certainly one of them give you an idea dad the other part is when dad bought the book he had developed into a play yeah and he went back to broadway this is right after spartacus so he's like the biggest star in the world he went back to broadway to do this play with the idea that it was gonna be a big critical success and then they would develop the film and it wasn't the play didn't didn't uh work out so to tell somebody and it took me years later to really understand that to tell somebody that this is one of the best parts you're ever gonna have in your life and you can't play it and you own it was really really hard hardest thing i ever did in my life up until then and you're not telling that would be a hard meeting to have with anybody but it's your dad and he was the one that found this material cuckoo's nest nurtured it had the vision all because he wanted to play that part and you have to tell him which is when you read it in the book it's heartbreaking but it was the right call it had to be nicholson it it had to be and to dad's credit when i took him up to berkeley california where we were doing a post-production and showed him the cut of the film and he came out of the theater and said michael it's a great movie it's a great movie he said and jack is fantastic and so he was very proud about it and the only other great thing that came out about it is um because i gave him half of the production deal and over the years you always used to bring it up just to give me shit you know yeah your picture you you took that i said i what happened to the director the director makes the choices dad yeah no no you i went for you and hey look you made more money off that movie than any movie you ever made in your life you could always say that i can always say that i'm gonna stick with this theme of revenge for a second because you have a hit tv show but you feel like i'm not being taken seriously you produce uh one you flew over the cuckoo's nest you win an oscar for it so many people won oscars for that it's a massive cultural touchstone that movie so that would be a career right there but you had this feeling that no no i i i want to be on camera i want to be seen as an actor and again you use it as a little bit of fuel like i'm gonna okay china syndrome we're gonna make this film china syndrome and you're gonna be in china syndrome um yes again at the time you're still thinking how do i service the movie as opposed to me as an actor so it takes you a while to say i need to prove to people that i'm a leading man and that happens when you do romancing the stone and that just sounds like a nightmare because you're producing the film and you're the leading man and that sounds like one of the most difficult tasks anybody can have in the business well it is and and it was but I had now, I had never, anticipated being a producer, except for my passion for Cuckoo's Nest. Now I've left television, and I'm in feature films. And we talked about how wide that gap was back then. And my first picture at the Oscars, so now I've got a studio deal as a producer. As a producer, yeah. As a producer. I still was not approved as an actor for many projects. For instance, one of the pictures I produced was Starman, which starred Jeff Bridges. I wanted to play that part. Studio would not accept me as the actor for it. This is all stuff that's hard to believe in retrospect. Because we know your career, when you read in the book that you were not accepted as a leading man, it's a little hard to buy. But of course, everyone had a yeah, but. Yeah, but he's a TV star. Yeah, but he's a producer. He's not a leading man. Yeah, but he played a part in China Syndrome, but he's not carrying the lead. You know, that's Jane Fonda, Jack Lemmon. So there's a lot of yeah, but, and you can see that you're pushing, you're hungry to say, wait a minute, no, Romancing the Stone, this is a chance for you to say, check this out. I'm playing light comedy. It's also, you know, action. And. Uh, I'm, I'm holding my own as a leading man. It was, but I think the big difference now, going back to, I said to you, the, the, the, the, what I learned at the O'Neill Theater and in thing was, I looked at the script as the movie, as a, as a, as a movie. If I've read a script and I try to read it through, it was, oh, this is a good movie. This is a really good movie. I never worried. I looked at my part. Second time through reading. It, I look at my part. Yeah. Most actors. First thing they do is turn to the pages of their part. Yeah. And so I think I was very fortunate. Why my batting average ultimately, excuse me, ended up being so good is I was just looking for what was a good movie. Yeah. Um, even I tried on, on Romancing the Stone. I tried to cast Bert Reynolds, a couple other people who wouldn't want to do it. Um, and when you look at Romancing the Stone came together with a director, Bob Zemeckis. Who already had two failures with, uh, Steven Spielberg as his executive producer with used cars. And I want to hold your hand, but I saw the talent in him. He felt his career was over 28 years old. So we started off with a screenplay from a first time writer. Who's a host, a waitress, Diane Thomas, a director nobody wanted an actor who you said so well, and Kathleen was trying to prove herself after body heat. Yeah. Yeah. There was nothing going for us. The big picture that year was the, uh, the, I think it was called Rhinestone, where the picture was Sylvester Stallone and Dolly Parton. Rhinestone? Rhinestone. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And, and we were like, you know, off to, off to the side. But it's really interesting that you're, again, you're having an extremely successful career, but you're always conscious that people aren't quite taking you as seriously as you think you should be considered. And again, that's fair. Yeah. You know, you are, you are not satisfied, and it's really Fatal Attraction. You think about this run, Fatal Attraction, Wall Street, Basic Instinct. I mean, you have this run where you become one of the most bankable male leads, but it was a long time coming. And it probably felt to you, especially with Wall Street, I was very impressed reading how hard you worked on becoming Gordon Gale. Right. You really practiced your greed speech thousands and thousands of times, and you really tried to figure out who this guy is. And these things don't happen by accident. No, they don't, but you don't have Oliver Stone as your director kicking your ass either. But, right, so up to that point, I had, after Cuckoo's Nest, Romance in Stone, China Syndrome, Jewel of the Nile, as a producer, if you're an actor, as a producer, I had four, you know, four big hits in a row. And then, finally, I saw the script on Fatal Attraction, and Sherry Lansing, who played an important part, was a studio executive at many studios, going with me back to China Syndrome, and was responsible for buying the script of Romance in the Stone. Deeply grateful. Yeah, that was the time. And for me, that was the final year. The year of. The year of Fatal Attraction followed three months later with Wall Street coming up. Fatal Attraction, I think, was the most successful film that year financially, very close to it. And then Wall Street and the Academy Award finally got me out of the shadow of my father and with the confidence that I'd achieved something. But as you say, Conan, that was a few years after I began. Yeah, I mean, you spend years having a life. You've had a lot of success, but you still don't think you're out of Kirk Douglas' shadow. Even though a therapist might say, no, you are. You know, you're a different person, and what you're achieving is quite different from what your father achieved. But this feeds you. Clearly feeds you. One of the things that stood out to me when I read the book is how many of the films you were involved in became touchstones for a moment. Whether it was just pure luck. Or there was something in the zeitgeist that you tuned into. But China Syndrome opens right around the time of Three Mile Island. Three Mile Island was 12 days after it opened. Yeah. Maybe Three Mile Island happened because they were busy watching China Syndrome. So you might have caused that. Fatal Attraction ignites this nationwide debate. There are a lot of. It can be very divisive. The ending of it. The ending of that movie is still divisive for people. I didn't realize that you shot it one way and then looked at audience scores, and the audience really wanted Glenn Close's character to pay. There was a vindictiveness towards her character, and eventually you made the ending that we all know. And that's something people would debate to this day. Is that the right ending? What kind of message is that sending? Wall Street happens at the. I mean, I think it was 1988, is when the big crash happens on Wall Street. And people are wondering, what is the responsibility that Wall Street has to us? And I attribute that to Oliver and Stanley Wise, the writers. Also, I just found out recently, after all these years, that I was not Oliver's first choice. He went to Warren Beatty. I said, no, he went to Richard Gere. And then it came to me. So, yes, one of those. One of those fateful, fluky situations. Michael, I was the third choice. Yeah, I was. I would believe it. I was 23. And I don't even know why I passed it up. I was insane. And then I think their word was, well, now we have to go to Michael Douglas. I go way back with you because as a young lad, my brothers and I would watch The Streets of San Francisco. Oh, no. Yeah. Your mom would let you stay up that late? Sometimes we would sneak it. We weren't allowed to watch. We weren't allowed to watch TV if there was school the next day. But every now and then we would get to watch The Streets of San Francisco or we'd watch it in reruns. You, Karl Malden. And what's fascinating to me is you don't look down on The Streets of San Francisco, which you can see some actors thinking, I'm doing TV, episodic TV. You know, I want to become a movie star. What am I doing this for? That was not your attitude. Your attitude was, I'm going to do this with Karl Malden. I'm going to make this TV show. I'm going to learn everything I can. And then you go to them and you say, I'm going to leave this hit TV show. Because I want to produce. And a lot of people thought, what are you doing? Yeah. A lot of people, including my father and everybody else. But let's be honest. As you know, the business in this day and age, I love this show. For four years, I had a five-year contract. Finally, it was at a point we were going to make Fuku's Nest. And I went to Karl Malden, who was my true mentor. I learned so much from him. And Quinn Martin, who was a big-time producer in television at that time. Oh, Quinn Martin was huge. The fugitive FBI. All these shows. And told them that I wanted to get out of my contract. Yeah. And they both said, Godspeed. I mean, it doesn't happen today. You just would never have that happen today. But one point, Conan, television. San Francisco, the separation between television and movies back then was enormous. Yeah. And San Francisco had its prestigious directors led by Francis Ford Coppola and everything. And they wanted nothing to do with us. And I remember the first season that we were up in San Francisco, they were shitting on us in terms of the press and how Southern California is coming up here, hurting our city and all of that. Then the ratings came in. The show was a success. And they realized, it's a love letter. It's a love letter to San Francisco. Yeah. So they all turned around the next year. Came around. We didn't forgive them. There's something you talk about. There's something you talk about in the book that resonated with me, which is you always saw your job. And many of these films. have political elements socially relevant elements you felt very strongly all along your first and only job is to tell a good story not to preach and you see in our culture now there's a lot of work there's a lot of work in comedy there's a lot of work in drama where people have a message to tell and i think it's often at the expense of the work and yes we have a responsibility but you make it very clear that you wanted all of these pictures to be entertaining and to be about human beings and tell a story a multi-act story and not first and foremost to tell you how you should feel about a certain issue and i think that's been a reason for the success a lot of these films and i i think sometimes uh as a culture we can lose our way in that because people get really i know i have this point of view about a political issue and i need to tell it to you and somehow afterwards you think of what i didn't love the story but i surely understand where you're coming from that's been a big motivator for you amen amen conan you sound like my oldest friend i've just met you i really appreciate you and i are gonna as you remember from earlier you and i are going to hang out together right we're gonna hit we're gonna hit the clubs right we're gonna be photographed together going into the clubs and coming out of talk to me okay okay you never have to say a word to me okay just to look but you need to at least make a face when the paparazzi's around like i'm your best friend yeah but i need lifts i need lifts i mean i didn't realize you're so tall um we'll get you some lifts well here's the thing um i was an indie producer i mean i look back on the pictures um i was an indie producer and even the studios we have what was called uh uh well there's a studio pickup deal which is basically you would deliver a script to a studio and the budget you could make it in and the cast and the studio would say okay we'll make it for those x number of dollars and you were really responsible you had a completion bond to finish it responsible so my point is i was just always conscious of two hours of entertainment how much money how much money do i really want to spend how how these students how do you spend so much money yeah for two hours of entertainment so besides having a pretty good eye and for structure and for material um i would try to find things that were a really good movie but they had a little bit of an aftertaste you know so it wasn't like you just you saw the movie and you go back perhaps you have a little bit to think about afterwards so i would try to find i would desperately try to find pictures not all the time uh but but in that area um i just found them uh more more rewarding um and and and that and not worrying about your part um as much as uh the movie and i'm really proud to say for instance that you know i i have many actresses who gave their best performances uh and were most successful in pictures that i was acting in or producing sharon's sharon stone and glenn close and kathleen turner amongst some you know they all did their best best work obviously there's going to be and already has been so much written about co-stars romantic you know liaisons and people uh get obsessed with that um that's less my interest because i'm as you can tell asexual just asking my wife she'll tell you um but uh it where it plays a part is in this dynamic of the father-son relationship um there was a lot that was modeled for you by your father and uh his relationships many relationships infidelities and then you have this life you're in a very long marriage with your first wife and um you know at some point this isn't really working but we need to stay together for our son cameron we need to stay together for him that's going to be the best thing and in retrospect in the book you say i'm not sure that was the right thing that maybe it would have been better if we had had ended this earlier because and that's you know certainly a point of view no it is i mean the story with deandre is is pretty amazing because um actually i went to jimmy carter's inauguration january 20th 1977 i went to the inauguration with warren and jack nicholson the three of us went there and i saw this extraordinarily beautiful woman in an event and we got together and lo and behold 60 days later march 20th 60 days later we were married uh and i'm just curious about one thing not many people say hey let's go meet women at jimmy carter's inaugural it's not i wasn't planning on it well here's the other thing you that that that comes to mind you're trying to uh meet up with this very attractive woman you see and your wingmen are warren beatty and jack nicholson uh you have to move quickly very quickly i guess so yeah that's probably a warren warren came to the uh i knew jack obviously well from cuckoo's nest and warren warren came to the wedding and warren thank you that's great you showed up he said i just wanted to see if you're really going to do this you know and he was he was because the idea of marriage to him at that time felt like why would you do this but the the point was that um uh deandra was a lot younger than i was deandra knew nothing about show business she was came out to me as a a still in college at back in washington dc and i was in full tilt you know 1980s rock and roll six very successful producer successful actor over the top coking drinking she never touched a drug in her life hated hollywood i said well hi this is how i make my living yeah um so it was a struggle it was a struggle so for instance the the affair of the time with kathleen happened when we were separated um deandra and i at one time and there were there were others and you've in the book you've you're you're coming out and saying people suspected maybe there was an affair with kathleen and she never touched a drug in her life kathleen turner but you're now confirming it after all these years after all these years well i gotta sell a book you know how many chapters can i do about how many chapters can i do about different movies and all that i know i mean i i kept thinking why doesn't he get spend more time talking about the grosses for these films why am i reading about these fantastically beautiful women he's sleeping with i think you i think you screwed up yeah i did this book should have been called grosses right so it was it was tough and it was if we made a decision actually was a little bit after romancing the stone we should have called it a day i mean we were just very different people from different lives and different uh friends you and deandra should have said yeah this isn't working terms let's be let's go our separate ways and maybe this will even be better for our son because in hindsight for the same reason when i when my mother and father got divorced i remember my father coming back the first time after they were divorced in new york to see my mother and everything and he came in the door of the apartment and he kissed my mother hello on the cheek and hugged her and i remember i broke down crying just started crying because the release of pressure that they were okay yeah everything was okay and i did he said earlier holding their hands together and you know it's so important so i think as long as kids know that you know that you can you're okay with each other either together or separately it's much easier than living with that ongoing tension yes that we can't believe we think we're such good actors that we cover up from kids yeah but they're completely aware kids see everything they see everything you're aware that the world we live in today cell phones social media everybody takes a picture of everybody all the time your life would have been different if you didn't have been very different if you i mean there's so much of your life that could happen discreetly and you could have these different liaisons uh today anybody would text about it right away take a picture absolutely i could this is why i guess you're joking everybody was carrying on about 40 years later about kathleen turn my god now you know these people you're seeing the roster of their their last marriage who they had boyfriends before that yeah who was the best i mean it's much too much information that i gotta know and everybody's got a phone out wherever you go so it's especially in the entertainment business it's much more painful and more difficult yeah so You were living at the right time. Oh, yeah. I mean, starting with the 60s, starting with the whole experience I had in college, a hippie culture, the philosophy behind hippiedom, spirituality, psychedelics, hallucinogenics, which got so attacked, which are now coming back 50 years later and seeming, huh, maybe they can be helpful. Yeah, it was an exciting time. It was a filmmaker's time. It was, you know, with studios. Stuart Head was the top guy. And you were in the hands. It's changed dramatically. I mean, when you're describing in this book, you, possibly good-looking young guy, and you're driving around. It's the 60s. Beach Boys music is playing. Beautiful women everywhere. Your fame grows and grows. And, my God, I think I need a time machine. I need a time machine, and I need to go back to 1968 and hang out with Michael Douglas. Would I do better? No. I don't think I would. I think I would hurt your chances. I remember when Danny DeVito came up to me to visit me in Santa Barbara when I was still in school the first time. We know Danny's in New York, as he is. And we had an A-frame. I live with another. Another guy, another girl there. We had a pool, a little pool. But we were all naked. We always swam naked. You're all naked, like, all the time. It's fantastic. Well, yeah. You'd go to the bank to get a loan. You were completely nude. Plastic wrap. But I still remember Danny, the first time he walked up the stairs to the pool. Hey, hi, Danny. Boy, boy, boy, what have I got here? You know? Yeah. He couldn't believe it. One of the most fascinating. And I knew this about you, but you meet Danny DeVito at the very beginning of your career. And, you know, there's a bit of like a midnight cowboy vibe. You're opposites in a lot of ways, but you connect instantly. And then you're good friends and collaborators through your entire career, which is, you know. Yeah. Well, I think, I don't know how it found for you, but, you know, those friends you had before you had success. Yes. You just trust them more. You guys were friends. Before you had all this other stuff happen. Yeah. I still got three college buddies that we're still pretty close to. And it makes a difference. It's harder to make friends when there gets more in the way. Yeah. Well, you come up with these people. Yeah. So they knew you when. Yeah. So Danny DeVito knew you when you're naked in an A-frame house. And there's a great story of you're living there, everyone's naked, your dad, Kirk Douglas, comes to visit. And he says, "Where's the bathroom?" And you say, "Dad, we just, if it's number one, we just piss off the deck." Right. And he says, "All right." So Spartacus is peeing off the deck. Laughing his head off. I said, "Dad, what are you laughing at?" I said, "This is where I was trying to get away from my whole life." Yeah, he grew up in poverty. Yeah, poverty. This is where he said, "Piss outside." You're like, "Isn't this groovy, man?" No, it's not groovy. This is what I did everything to escape. You are initially, you don't meet, but you first see. Catherine Zeta-Jones on film, and you kind of fall in love with her on film. Yeah. Which I did, but she didn't marry me. No, I just, listen, I had a crush on Julie Christie for a lot of years on film, I never met her. And all of a sudden, I'm watching Zorro, and Catherine comes on screen, and I just was mesmerized, just mesmerized, and sort of leaned forward and said, "Who is this?" And I left the. I left the screen house, and then now there's Esquire magazine or something, and there's a profile on her in Esquire magazine, and I'm reading the profile, she's doing this movie with Sean Connery, Entrapment, and then she mentions, "And she likes older men." Yes, yes. So I never would have even anticipated or thought of going there. I was in such awe of her. I know these are very superficial reasons, but, you know, beauty is still. It's still a place, an important role. Yes. And so, lo and behold, we're at the same film festival, and I see that her film is playing the night after, and so I ask if it's possible I could have a drink with her, and had a drink, and then I. Antonio Banderas was there with his wife, Melanie, and I had done a movie with Melanie, they invited us for dinner, had dinner, and then went from there. And she came back after dinner, we had drinks, talking, and it was the beginning, you know, and then took a year and a half, but it'll be 26 years. 26 years. It's November. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. I have to say, when I read the book, there are all these themes that I said have run through the whole story, your story, and I'm curious now, from this vantage point, you talk about it a little bit in the book, but from this vantage point, looking back on everything, people love to say no regrets. Do you have any regrets? Is there anything you're like, okay, I do this, or do you take the whole thing as one piece and say, you know what, I accept it all? I take the second, I accept it all. Yeah. I mean, we've talked about, did you have any marriage earlier, and, you know, but it's just all part of the. I mean, it's just important for people to read, because sometimes, you know, you get the Hollywood royalty, and your life looks magical, and they don't know or remember the five turkey pictures you made before you had to go in a television, and, you know, some of the adversities that you did face, and cancer, so, yeah, I'm happy now that I sort of, I just one day got just tired of, and then I realized, well, Michael, Michael, I'm not going to do this. Michael, you've been doing this for 50 years, you've been pushing it pretty hard, and so I did this last, I think it was Ben Franklin thing in the beginning of 23, and took time off, and loved it, just loved having time off, didn't know what I was going to do, just loved having time off, and spending a lot of time in kind of Spain, moving away from what looks like a really crazy-ass world out there, just a crazy-ass world. I can't remember, and everybody asks, I was born in 1944, and I think this is the most difficult time, I'm not a World War II kid, but this is the most difficult time that I can ever remember, not just in our country, but on the planet. And you say that having lived through the late 60s, which was many people, when I was growing up, that was thought of as the most divisive, dark time that America came through, and Watergate. Watergate, and you think what we're in now is darker. Much, much darker. Yeah, that's how it feels. In large parts due to social media and polarization, but I get to say, not only in this country, I was deeply influenced very early in college by a guy named Buckminster Fuller. Oh, yeah. Who came and he gave a lecture on Spaceship Earth, and at that very early point in life, he gave me an idea of how tiny. Tiny this little planet is, and as far as we keep reaching out with the telescopes everywhere, billions of light years away, we haven't found anything. There may be. Maybe I love the idea of UFO, but this is it. This is all we got. And to find us at this time in life, when they're talking about AI and intelligence and all this. Global warming and everything, yeah. This little tiny planet will still be fighting battles. Battles with each other, and for me, it's been nuclear weapons and the massive destruction. How we haven't decided, we can work this out. I mean, there's enough money in the world, but most people, all they want is a little food and some house. So there are continents, be it Africa and everything. Maybe you need a little more help, but what is our failure with these leaders not to understand that? So this is why I've been a long supporter of the United Nations. I know it's got a lot of faults, but there are world organizations that are designed for us to think like the tiny planet that we are, rather than a bunch of individuals. Yeah, yeah. I disagree with you completely. I'm all for it. I'm sorry. Nothing you said right there makes sense. You were on my very short list. Of iconic movie personas that I've not met. And so this was a big deal for me. Very cool to be able to sit with you. I love the book, One Hell of a Ride. And I am very much looking forward to you and I becoming good friends that hit the clubs. Yeah. Well, that should be a little hard. I'm not a late guy. I'm an early guy. Are you an early guy or a late guy? I will do whatever you tell me to do. Michael Douglas. You know, if we could arrange a time to meet up. and we can actually Photoshop it so it looks like We're coming out of a club very late. This is such a treat, man. You're so smart. I've always known that. But the homework that you've done, I'm honored. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me on your show. It was an honor to talk to your dad on the old show and now to talk to you. This is a real treat for me. And you know what? You did pretty good. I'm trying. I may have one of my sons with you, too, or daughter. Oh, yeah. Okay, there you go. Yeah, yeah. There you go. All right. Well, hey, thank you so much for this. Thanks, Coach. A real treat. We are back with a very special guest. This gentleman first shot to fame on my episode of Hot Ones. The minute people saw him, I don't think they loved him, but they were maybe intrigued. He has since appeared in several of my travels. He has appeared in several shows. He pops up in the Conan universe from time to time. And we thought we must see more of this fellow. So he's here to talk about his latest project. And it's a show. It's going to be on the Conan O'Brien YouTube channel called I'll See You in Health. That's correct. That's right. Dr. Arroyo. Hi. Hi, everyone. Nice to see everybody here. Yes. It's called I'll See You in Health. With Dr. Arroyo. Yeah. And that's where we tried go to health and to health with you, but it didn't test. No, I love that every version that you experimented with seems to have the same problem. To health and back. Yeah, to health and back. What the health? It'll be a cold day in health. Cold day in health. We tested that as well. Dr. Arroyo, I get asked about you all the time. I get asked about you as well. Yeah. You've been a longtime patient. Yes. And two of your colleagues here are not patients of mine. And I'd like to extend. So I brought you a tongue depressor. If you'd like to join my practice and be a patient of mine, just use that tongue depressor. Bring it in. Look at that. It has your name on it. It's sanitary. It's just for you. You use it. But wait a minute. The back has her husband's name. Yeah. Don't use that side. Okay. That'll be for the pack. Couldn't you have given her two tongue depressors? That's not. Yeah. Well, that's not affordable, is it? I'm doing affordable health care here. It's a splinter of wood. Well, it's a piece of white birch. If you. I mean, it doesn't grow on trees. Can I bring this every time? You bring that every time. Yes. And that'll be just yours. And Matt, you get that one. Oh, thank you so much. Wow. But wait a minute. Excuse me. Yes. Excuse me. What's wrong? It says Rebecca on the other side. Yeah. Who's Rebecca? That's what Amanda wants to know. We don't know. Oh, my God. We don't know who Rebecca is. We hope you do. Now, Dr. Arroyo. Yes. And this has come up. This has come up many times before. Every time I've been seeing you for a number of years, I don't know why, because I have access to real professionals. It's expensive. It is. I've never met you in a medical facility. You always insist. You always insist that we meet. I've met you in parking lots. Yes. A lot of Denny's parking lots. Yes. Yes. You like to meet at night. Yes. The examinations are very cursory. They're quick. Well, and they're at night, so not a lot of light. Yep. You're a word against mine. Yeah. So, it works out. Okay. All right. Now, well, the exciting news here. Yes. Dr. Arroyo. Yes. Oh, my God. Is that you have a new. Oh, my God. So, you have a new YouTube channel show. I do. I'll See You in Health. And it's on the Conan O'Brien YouTube channel. That is correct. These are shorts. This is not Team Coco. This is the Conan O'Brien YouTube channel and. At Conan O'Brien on YouTube. Yeah. And I have a 10-episode residency there. If you look up the shorts, you can see my shorts on, at Conan O'Brien YouTube. Now, you've already made some. That's correct. They're available already. Can you tell us about them? Oh, yes, of course. Give us a preview of what people might see. We all remember the dirty lettuce outbreak of the summer. So, one of the symptoms was explosive diarrhea. And I carefully explained the difference between explosive diarrhea and regular diarrhea using a garden hose and its different attachments. Okay. That's helpful. Stream and spray. That's helpful for people. Even the rare diarrhea mist, which is not that common. Is there also, there's also a rotating diarrhea. Yes, a diarrhea pulsator. Yes, yes. Yes, exactly. That's more used in- Short, quick bursts of diarrhea and a 360-degree rotation of the hips. Exactly. That's used in agriculture mostly. Okay. All right. In any case, that's how we got the dirty lettuce in the first place. Okay. So, in any case- I can't, but that is a very helpful, that is a very helpful segment for people to see. That is a helpful segment. There's others. There's temporary hearing loss. If you saw the Odyssey on IMAX, what to do with that. Yeah. Okay. There's red eyes. There's athlete's foot. There's red eyes. Didn't spray the bowling shoes. This little piggy took a shower in a women's correctional facility. Those kinds of things. The kinds of things that give you athlete's foot. Right. There's how to use a tongue depressor. And I use a puppet for that. And in the latest episode, I even used my newest patient, Aaron Blair, who discusses his sleep apnea. Is that correct? That's right. Yeah. And Dr. Arroyo was very helpful. That's right. That's right. We used him and we used, I'm not, there's some litigation as to whether or not I should really practice. us on humans, but puppets are absolutely safe. And so we discussed sleep apnea with this guy, who's this little sleepy puppet. Oh, look at him. Yeah. And this is Gomer. Hi, Gomer. Yeah. Yeah. Does he have a voice? Does Gomer? Oh, now he's sleeping. Clearly. Okay. We would never awake a sleeping puppet. Never awake a sleeping puppet. They could jump off your arm. So Gomer's sleeping. And so by using the puppet. Correct. First of all, it's a great visual aid and you avoid litigation. Avoid litigation. Exactly. And since I'm my own lawyer. Are you certified to practice law? I am. Well, you know, it's actually, I'm not allowed to answer that question because of current. Yeah. My lawyer told me not to answer that question. So you're a lawyer who has a lawyer. I am a lawyer. I think you just answered our question. Yes. So that's great. And so he, um, we talked about sleep apnea and how it affects it. And, uh, Aaron, you wanted to say, tell me, uh, what is sleep apnea? Oh, yes. It's when, uh, the soft tissue in your throat, uh, kind of closes, uh, that's right. Yeah. On your airway when you're trying to sleep. It's so it, it leads to snoring and you stop, you stop breathing. Yes. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Yes. Yes. It was a very effective episode. You know what? And it's coming off many times during one of, uh, blaze verbal perambulations. Oh, absolutely. Um, I, uh, I belong to doctors. He's he's sleeping now. It doesn't speak. No, it was, I, uh, I think I overdosed him and, uh, we'll, we'll figure it out. I he's, he's resilient. He's a good, he's a trooper. Did you help play at all? Blair? You like improved since you've seen Dr. Oh no, I didn't need any help. Oh no, I have a sleep. I have a CPAP machine. It was more, uh, informational. Exactly. This is tangential, but I've often tried to close the soft tissue and blaze throat by grabbing him with two hands and just trying and just in a bitter, bitter rage. He has a lot of soft tissue in there. It's very hard to crunch that all down. Um, Dr. Arroyo, uh, this is exciting. Uh, do you see this as bringing in more patients? I mean, this is, look, you've now hitched your wagon to the Conan O'Brien comet. This might mean big things for you. What are you thinking? Well, I could see, uh, having more than a handful of patients and, uh, finally talking to, uh, the board, the California board of medicine to, uh, you know, um, uh, iron out some wrinkles with my license. And, uh, and I think this is all build positive momentum in that way. Do you see you maybe going to the board? Yes. California board of medicine of medicine and maybe showing them some of these, um, some of these videos to get yourself. Yes. Maybe rehabilitated, even if that's necessary. I don't know that it is necessary. Well, no, but you know, if, look, if Dr. Pepper and Dr. can be called a doctor, I can be called a doctor as well. Dr. Dre, Dr. Gray. I, yes, exactly. Dr. Dr. Brown's the rug doctor. I'm part of a tradition of doctors in this country. And, uh, and that's, you know, what that device is that's hanging around your neck right now. It's called. Oh, that came with the jacket. Okay. So I don't, uh, but thanks for pointing it out. When I was doing the hot ones and really tasted some hot wings, you stepped in and you, um, very, I mean, I remember you took that. It is called a stethoscope and you, uh, you, you listened to my tongue. That was a great moment. It was on fire. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It was very brave of you. What you did. I, um, I commend you. Yeah. And that's which led to that led to your diarrhea segment. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, listen, uh, Dr. Arroyo, the show is called I'll see you in health. It's on the Conan O'Brien YouTube channel. channel and um i just i wish you all the very best i do and i think i'm seeing you i think i'm seeing you in a week and a half is on my schedule yes yes please don't be late um because they they close the parking lot with a chain yeah we've had that happen before yeah okay thank you so much doctor all right thank you everyone goodbye bye-bye bye conan o'brien needs a friend with conan o'brien sonam of sessian and matt gorley produced by me matt gorley executive produced by adam sacks jeff ross and nick leo theme song by the white stripes incidental music by jimmy vivino take it away jimmy our supervising producer is aaron blair and our associate talent producer is jennifer samples engineering and mixing by eduardo perez and brendan burns additional production support by mars melnick bookings by paula davis gina batista and brick khan you can rate and review this show on apple podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode got a question for conan call the team coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message it too could be featured on a future episode you can also get three free months of sirius xm when you sign up at siriusxm.com slash conan and if you haven't already please subscribe to conan o'brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded you