Meta’s Massive Settlement, Bill Gates’ AI Warning, and Remembering Dolly Parton

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Today, I'm joined by Chief White House correspondent and anchor of the source with Caitlin Collins, the very same. Caitlin Collins, good to see you. How does Scott feel about that intro? What do you think? You saw him more recently than I did. I saw a photograph of the two of you. I did run into him. It's so funny to see Scott out in the wild. It's like seeing a teacher when you're in the sixth grade out to school, and you're like, "How are you doing here on vacation?" Yeah, did you see that? What was he doing there? He was just hanging out and he was having dinner with someone, like a political foreign policy thinker. He was good. He seemed frustrated and ready to get back to podcasting. Yeah, he's suddenly texting me a lot, so I know that it's the end of August, because he's like, "Hey, girl," and I'm like, "Oh, hi. Good to talk to you." He's also threading a lot. He does threads, and so he has an opinion about things. I'll tell you. We'll discuss this later, but he's very upset that he's not here for the Natalie Harp situation. He's like miss back him. Now, Dolly Parton, who Scott and I are a huge fan. You dedicated your entire show, Dolly Parton, on Tuesday night. Talk a little bit about it. What's your favorite Dolly song to start with? I was actually thinking about this last night because I was listening to a very long car ride last night. I was listening to Dolly Parton the whole time. Yeah, me too. I really think, I mean, there's so many good ones, and islands in the stream is incredible, but I really think it's hard candy Christmas, because it is like, I know it's kind of like a random one. No, it's not. You're not random, but it's not as you know that one, yeah. Yeah, it's not always the first one I think people think of. But it's what I think of when I think of Dolly Parton, and for us to dedicate a whole show to something that is not politically related is pretty rare for us, but it really speaks to, I think, however, and felt about Dolly Parton, certainly how I think about her. Yeah. Oh, but I think she was politically related in a way that was very different. I think she did a lot of political things without saying them out loud. She was somewhat quite politics, like in terms of her actions, whether it was supporting the Moderna vaccine or whether it was, you know, doing all men are feminist things without having to say so or supporting trans people or supporting Black Lives Matter. She was quite explicit about that. So she was political in a very different way than what we're used to, I would assume. Yeah. And you know what I loved is when we had Melissa Atherjohn, she brought this up immediately and we were going to talk to her about it. But that moment when they did the Crossroads duet together, which, you know, I grew up watching CMT, like that's all I would, my parents could get me to clean my room because I would blare CMT like Travis Tritt and George Straighten. I would just listen to music. But when they did their duet, it was the first time that two women had done it. So it was a breakthrough in and of itself. But Melissa was telling me that actually admit so much more to her than that because Dolly was selected. They let Dolly pick who she wanted. She picked Melissa Atherj. And it was in 2003. It was at a time when the gay marriage debate was raging in the United States. And Melissa said for her to be invited in that moment to share the stage with her was so special and so meaningful to her. And obviously she spoke over the gay community so much throughout her career decades before it was, you know, invoked thing to do for a celebrity. And it was just so special to hear Melissa talk about what that meant, you know, 20 years ago to share that stage with Dolly Partridge. Well, I think she knew exactly what she was doing, you know what I mean? I think she understood her who she was and she had conducted her career that way doing, you know, really being the pilot of everything. One of the things she, I put up was a song that I love called Traveling Through. And it was, it's not so good. It was such a great song. It was a movie called Trans America, which was about a trans woman who was meeting her son. And it was astonishing. And it's such a, it's a song of acceptance, you know, at the time it was not a thing that people did. A lot of people did. She constantly put herself on the line in that regard in a very quiet, but I think profoundly strong way in a very different way. Although she didn't speak out when she needed to, she absolutely did. And you know, even just on her life overall, I have never gotten so many messages from family members about my show. I mean, they watch. Obviously, I always say I'm converting Alabama viewers one at a time. Explain where you're from for people. People do know your background, but people who don't. You're from Alabama. I'm from a small town outside of Montgomery called Prattville in Alabama. And my immediate family watches the show almost every night, but to hear from kind of some distant relatives last night, or people in my family that I went to Dollywood with a bunch of times as a kid, it was really fun to hear them reflecting on her and also, you know, loving to hear from Pam Tillas and Melissa Thridge last night. And I mean, but Dolly really was a huge part of my childhood because this is what we did in the south for vacation. We drove down to the beach or we drove north to Tennessee. Those were our two spots that we went pretty much every year. And we would go to Dollywood and we thought it was, I mean, it was Disney World for us before we went to Disney World. And we'd go there. We'd see Dolly's childhood home, a replica of it. And it was just, it's a core memory for me as a child. And so having that, you know, knowing her childhood and what she came from and never forgot is so meaningful to me, I think. And genuine. And genuine, too, because a lot, let me tell you, you'd be surprised to know, of course, I've been to Dollywood. I was also a huge Elvis fan, by the way. And I've been to two, I've been to two below. That's how much I was. And I love Dolly Parton so much, I took my whole family to Dollywood. And one of the things I loved about, and it's in Pigeon Forge, which is now kind of big in touristy, but it's really kind of fascinating, which is done there economically for that region. And she, I went there and what's amazing about it, which is, there's so many differences in this country that's crazy, but when you get in Dollywood, everyone gets along. Like it's crazy. Like you walk through the thing, walk through the butterfly entrance and I took my daughter, was a baby, just found the pictures from there. And including in that shack, we took her into that shack and everything else. And it better flies her Dolly symbol, whatever, that was her thing that she had around. And literally you have the gaze, the red necks, the conservatives, the liberals, the lesbians. It was crazy. And everyone was so happy to be together because of her. And I was like, what can you bottle this? It was such a, and then minute you go out. It's back into guns and abortion and everything, like you're like, it was really, it was a really interesting feeling. And I never, I never understood it. I loved Dollywood. I still haven't figured out how she did that. I mean, how she built this massive career, stayed true to her roots, was always herself. I mean, that's what I think is the most infectious part about her is you watch her get all these questions, you know, 20, 30 years ago from a lot of men about her appearances and her look and how that affects her. I mean, Dan Rathers' face, when they're in this sit down and she's saying that she never slept with anyone to get anywhere. She only slept with people that she wanted to sleep with if she happened to have slept with them. Right. Is this iconic moment? I mean, you could tell he doesn't even know what to do after her. But I just think, you know, reflecting on how she was able to, to span that spectrum and appeal to so many people, it's hard to just think of other people, no one who, who've achieved that. People ask me, who do you want to interview of all people and I said, Deli Parton, but only about her entrepreneurship? I just like, I don't want to talk about the songs. I don't want to talk about anything but her entrepreneurship. And that's what really got through her ability to shift and change and move along, whether she went from, you know, country to leaving that show, the Porter Wagner show, to moving on to pop and then she went to the, it just, she is the quintessential American entrepreneur. And it's, I'd heard the reason I went to interview her was she was doing a lot of stuff with AI and song stems because she owns thousands of songs that haven't been released to. And so she wanted them released after she died. And this is what I didn't know though. Exactly. And I, like, wanted to talk to her about it and just, you, she is the absolutely quintessential American entrepreneur in a way that is so beautiful and also just a kind and just a kind of soul in a way that's very profound in a way, I don't know, I just feel like that's why people are reacting. So what did your relatives say, may I ask? I mean, they're all just sharing their own memories about going to Dollywood, listening to Dolly Parton, what she meant to them. I mean, my mom is a fourth grade teacher and she said she's been playing it in our classroom all morning. My stepdad, who was the, you know, driving force behind us going to Dollywood was text to me about it this morning. And you know, one thing that's funny, you were talking about taking your kids, which I love that you did. And I think everyone should, should go is we went in a time when there were no smartphones or anything like that. I mean, maybe we had disposable cameras, but I mean, maybe we didn't. I was asking my family, I was like, are there any pictures of us at Dollywood? And honestly, everyone was looking for them yesterday 'cause I wanted to use them in the show. And we couldn't find any. And I think it was a sign that of the times, but also we had so much fun on these trips, and we were just so locked in on a family vacation of it all, that like that was it. We, there are no pictures because that's how much fun we were having. And I just love that. I feel like it's so quaint and-- - It's a wonderful place. The food is great too, by the way. - Yeah, it's incredible. - And cinnamon rolls are incredible. But also there's healthy food too, it's like a mix. I was sort of like, "Tolly?" - Well, we weren't eating that, I'll probably know. - No, I sure, I had the cinnamon, obviously. I had the cinnamon roll, hello. I had a dream of going up to the actual shack, finding it. And then I thought I'd get arrested or something like that. - Yeah, because it still exists. I mean, she went back and bought it later on, which I think is so incredible. And it was insulated with newspaper and all these other clippings that were on the wall because that was how they stayed-- And you know what I love that she said? Everyone's talked about her imagination library. And I'm a huge reader still, my kids reading. Reading is amazing. And reading as a kid was so like instrumental for me. But what I loved when she talked about why she started it is because her dad couldn't read or write. But she didn't say, "Oh, we couldn't read, couldn't write." She said, "He never had the chance to learn." - That's right. - And he didn't have that opportunity afforded him. And I loved how she phrased that because I do think, I mean, all over, but especially in the South, so many of us have grandparents or great-grandparents that are like that. And it wasn't that they couldn't or that they wouldn't have been able to. It was that they didn't have the opportunity. And that is what she wanted to give to people. - Right, absolutely. All the time. One of the moments, and you probably covered this, when she did the-- she used the Jolene song, which is one amazing song, in lots of ways, including technically how she put it together. But Jolene, she'd vaccine, vaccine, vaccine, vaccine. That was also a moment when there's all this anti-va-- it was incredible for her to-- that is a big political statement to me, and a risky one for someone like her. - I think of the lives she saved. I mean, that's what Melissa Etheridge was saying last night about her being outspoken about, be who you are, and don't worry about who someone else is, and the permission structure that she basically gave to people who were sitting in their room thinking, well, Dolly Parton's not judging me. I think in the South, especially during the pandemic, and people, a lot of vaccine hesitancy, I saw it among people I love. And to come out and say that, she could have said nothing. - Right. - And she chose not to. Not only did she put her money where I'm out this, she also spoke up like she always has. - She always has, which is amazing. Just for people to know, this imagination library is amazing. My kids use it. They're wonderful books. And it's a Republican lawmakers, Missouri, and Indiana cut or reduced funding for her child reading program. I hope they will reinstate it. I hope some billionaire will get with it and back that as they go forward. I'm sure she is giving away most of her money to things like that in her will, although she, one of the other things that I loved was her dedication to her own family. Like they were all working for her. And that video from her nephew was, who was her security person and her dad was before. - I know. - You just are like, what? You know, it's a real shift. Now, let me just say, Donald Trump ordered flags to fly at half-staff and said, "Neposers never been anyone like her "and never will rest in peace, Dolly the world loves you." Surprisingly, did not try to suck up the energy. - Was he surprised? - For Donald Trump and the Democratic Socialist of America to both put out a pretty similar statement about the passing of someone is a moment that probably will never happen again. I mean, for them to both agree on something, I think also speaks to the moment we're in, but it was a moment where, I mean, this morning, he was saying in an interview that, you know, Dolly Parton always liked him and was, you know, so nice to him and a fan of his. And then, but in terms of this overall, you know, and I'm curious how your thoughts on this, because we've talked about billionaires so much between the two of us and these tech giants and what people do with their money. One thing I keep seeing on in the aftermath of her death is how she spent her money and that she was obviously extremely successful, but how she used that success to reinvest not in like a bullshit kind of way in terms of, you know, let me make myself look good. She genuinely wanted to invest in children and in her community and where she came from. - She gave money to the people in the, to finish high schools. She gave money to do that when people were devastated by, I think the floods, she gave money people for that to recover or whatever had been happening there. She also, when she made all that money on, I will always love you when Whitney Houston redid it and she made a fortune on that song and didn't sell it to Elvis. Again, great entrepreneur. She could have sold it to Elvis and she didn't at that time. - Which, imagine how tough that decision is. - Oh, oh, I totally feel for her. - Like you tell Elvis? - No. - No, you can't have it. 'Cause she knew, she knew what a great, that's a perfect song. But what was really interesting is she continued to do that and I agree with you. She didn't do, like I guess the equivalent of a Mackenzie Scott who is Jeff Bezos's ex-wife who just gives money and goes away. Like just hands it out, moves along. And you never hear from her. She does, she just hands it over to people. Which I think is unusual. And you're right, most people do it in this incredibly selfish, performative way. Now interestingly, Jeff Bezos did give Dolly Parton $100 million for that money that he gave out to a number of people, including I think Van Jones and others. I think Jose Andres got some. And I think she's given it all away. She's given, you know, given, which is great. But honestly, Jeff Bezos, you're fucking just give it away. Like to me, I was like, let's not do this performative, let me meet famous people. Just give it away and keep giving it away. That would be my taste in that. - I love your shirt, by the way. - Oh, thank you. - I think we even talked about it. - Oh, I'm wearing a shirt that says WWDD. What would Dolly do? - I got it at Dolly one. - It's so good. - What would Dolly do? - Well, I didn't realize, they didn't have this when I was a kid, but I was talking to someone last night about going that they have a display of her wigs there now. - Yes. - Yeah. - Which I love. - They're their love. - Yeah, I love the coat of many colors. It's there and everything is there. - You know what she did that I also think is important for women is she did not associate aesthetics with character. And she could separate those two in a way that a lot of people I've to this day still struggle with, which is why I think she got so many questions about it. And she would, every time she got a question, it seemed like about her appearance, she would turn it back to what she's like on the inside. And she wasn't bashful about what she had done. I loved that also. But she was saying, well, maybe it's fake on the outside, but it's real on the inside. - That's right, deep, that's one of her songs. That's one of the great songs she's saying. - So it's good. - And one of my other, it's fake eyelet, what's it called, the Backwoods Barbie? That's a great song. That talks about false eyelashes. - Big dreams and faded dreams. And then the other one that I think is a great song. And then I kept putting up songs that people don't know about. And my favorite is, and they redid it with a bunch of amazing women artists recently with her, which is light of a clear bill morning. But I would recommend reading, listening just to her, sing it. For some reason, her death, which I kind of, everything everyone was sort of expecting a little bit. This weekend, I had spent a lot of time watching her for some reason. I just, I love dolly part, I can't believe. I know, I was, yes, I was like, oh, I think she's gonna die soon. I need to be with her. Like, I've got to spend time. And, 'cause she was always up and out and she wasn't, right? So you had to imagine something was going on. And one of the things that I thought about was, it gives people courage, her death. I know it sounds crazy, but this, like, the internet was, like, saturated with her yesterday. All kinds of stories from regular people, the kind things she did, and all manner of things. And I thought, I have just about fucking had it, not getting along with people. She is right. Like, you know what I mean? I do imagine it'll have some political impact. 'Cause I tell you, everyone I know woke up today and like, okay, that's enough. That's enough with the hate. That's enough with, like, this woman lived, the most perfect, you know, if you want to talk a religious life, Christian life, in the way that was just right, do you think it will have a political effect on people? 'Cause I felt like that's enough of this hate. - I think that's a good point. I mean, 'cause you couldn't open any of the apps without just seeing everything about Dolly, which never happens where we all come together or something. I'm not sure if it'll have an impact, but I think it shows how much people are grasping for something that does unite people and that does give people hope and enthusiasm and optimism and just something that everyone can love and no one has to complain or criticize or argue or, you know, avoid the subject with people they love 'cause they don't wanna get an argument. It really showed that we are grasping for something like that that is hopeful and bright and nice. And, you know, I mean, we do so much politics on my show. For my team, who is amazing last night, to just go through all these archives of Larry King interviews and old clips of her, I think, like, the way we described it after the show was we were like, that was soul cleansing. Like, it was so nice to have this moment of no arguments, no, nothing, it was just everyone talking about Dolly. - And they don't go after her. I have to say, one of the things, she did a lot of very liberal stances on a lot of these issues that are now such hot button issues. You don't see criticism of her. - You never see it, like, they never touch her. It's really interesting and they will not now, obviously, 'cause she's saint-like. - I love Jack White said, instant sainthood for Dolly's. - Instant, instant, why not? - Anyway, we love Dolly. What would Dolly do? This is what I'm gonna do, the rest of the, and I recommend the PBS documentary here I am. It's just really wonderful. And she really was an amazing and many songwriter. She was innovative and she was an entrepreneur. That is something you have to think about when you think about her. Not just 'cause she came from modest means, but because of that. And the last thing I would say is people don't realize it's my family's from West Virginia. And so they loved her. That's one of the ways I got in touch with country music - Very early or bluegrass? - How great is that? Yeah, my grandparents grew up in such a shack in such a place in rural West Virginia. So just everything about her is fantastic. Anyway, let's move on. Meta has agreed to pay. This has just happened, Caitlin. Nearly $17 billion to settle on major federal case brought by 29 states over allegations that Facebook and Instagram harmed children's mental health. The deal also caused major changes to Meta's apps, including daily time limits, nighttime blocks, routines, and stronger age verification measures. The settlement comes in the second week of a high-stakes trial in California where states accuse Meta of misleading the public about risks to young users. Any thoughts on this? You and I talk about this a lot. I thought it was, I think you don't face a lot of several people like, oh, it's peanuts. It's not peanuts, guys. This is a big deal. I know it's not enough and everyone had pretended it was $1.4 trillion. That was never going to be a settlement. Maybe a hundred million, 200 million might have happened in a jury trial, but this is real money and hopefully real changes. This is, of course, led by Rob Bonto, who's also doing the paramount deal. I know you talked to him recently, or the case leading the cases for the attorney generals, but talk a little bit about this because this is a point where, first of all, states attorney generals are the ones doing legislation here finally, getting these changes when the federal government, both Democrats and Republicans, have done nothing at the federal level. I think sometimes when you see those lawsuits, you kind of wonder if it's going to go anywhere. This settlement today speaks to that. My questions were, one, it seems like the changes, obviously they're directed at children and that has been the focus of this, is that it will affect all users potentially in terms of what they're changing. As it should. What that, the nighttime activity, how long you're on there during the day. I think the second question that I had looking at this was, obviously they chose to settle. Maybe they saw the writing on the wall and they didn't think it was going to go well for them. Is it the first of many or are we going to see more of this just because this has happened here? There are so many other cases that are happening. I think what it says is, if you push back hard enough, let me just say, I'm glad they settle. I'm glad they're doing these things. Someone from Facebook sent this to me, is a two-hour daily time limit, turning off access to our apps at night. As a default, no notification during school hours, clear prompts and notifications for teens, every 15 minutes of continuous screen time, new parental supervision control so parents can decide how their teens use the app. These are all things that are great. These are also things that should have been there a long time ago. Also, it's great for kids and I think that we should have it. I think about my nephews who are not yet into this era yet and it's terrifying because they're so pure and perfect and happy and you don't want that to be corrupted. I also think it should happen maybe for people who are 65 plus because I think a lot of people's parents are online way too much and sometimes I talk to my own parents and I'm like, wait, what? What did you see? That's AI. That's not even real or that's not. There's views of me being used and so I don't actually think it should only apply to children. No, no. I think adults need this too. Yeah, there's going to be more cases like that. I think it's just easier for people to speaking of agree. Marsha Blackburn agrees with someone on the left on this topic, right, unless she wants to be governor and then she changes a little bit, but it's a really, it's a big issue for everyone. I'm working on a new book and it's about a digital bill of rights. What should we all have going forward? This is the beginning, not the end of this. As much as people don't want a settlement going to trial, Facebook has unlimited options of suing and appealing and appealing and appealing and this would have taken years to get these things that need to happen on the ground initially for kids and others will follow. That's also the other companies will follow. And they're the biggest one, obviously, but it will start to set limits of what we want. Again, the government should have done this. So should Facebook many years ago, but they didn't. And so that's one of the things and it will not end. It will not end what's happening here, which is an absolute trend, which you're seeing again politically, Caitlin. I mean, you're seeing you've written, we've talked a lot about on the show about in these data centers, which to me is a proxy. How important is the people you interview? Because look, my groggers changed, Abbott changed, Vivek Ramaswami changed. What do you think the impact is going to have? I mean, not only did they change, it was a full 180. Yes. And so we are, we might call that a lie, but go ahead. Well, and I think some of the Democratic candidates who are running, you know, we had Gina Henehosa, who's running against Abbott on the other night. And she was saying, well, let's see if this is real, because I think if he wins, reelection. And obviously, this is his opponent speaking, but she said that she thought maybe he'd change back his stance, given where he was just a year ago. And I think it's incredible, because speaking of crossover again, which obviously is like the dominant thing here, this is something that people in the far right and the very progressive left seem to agree on, which is this hesitancy at best in a full-out opposition at worst for these companies against these data centers being built in their communities with no say-so, no transparency they feel on their behalf of what's happening. And we had seen these, you know, Republicans in most cases ushering in these giants to their states to, you know, take over this. And, you know, without regard, it seems like whether or not these small communities where they're being built can keep up with, you know, what that would require and tail for resources. But I mean, with, you know, Kathy Hocal imposing her moratorium, the response to that, but seeing how it is now starting to take shape and everyone is kind of shifting to this, with the exception of people like President Trump, he says it's a mistake. So tell me that I was going to say that, why, how come he's sticking to his guns? I mean, you, only enough, you kind of have to respect him for that, he's going to go, he's all in on AI and his whole administration is based on the bear hug that he gave to these AI people, but he's not backing down and probably will hurt other candidates presumably. Well, there's a lot of Republican districts where this has become a huge issue. Or even, I mean, obviously, we were talking about the Republican Senate seat, no, high of the other night in terms of where this stands. And so Trump is someone who has often been praised over the last decade for being so in touch with his political instincts, his base. This is an area where it doesn't seem to be the case because there is so much concern and skepticism about this. And so, I mean, I think the question is, do we get on the other side of the midterm elections this November, and this is actually a way bigger issue than people anticipated in terms of, you know, as you and I were talking about the other night, real grassroots opposition to this. It's not, you know, Michael Wattley in North Carolina was saying that it's all basically gendered up and that it's being driven by outside forces, but as you were saying, that's not the case. It's not, well, that was Kevin O'Leary in Utah, it's just ironic. It's ironic to call these people Chinese communist patsys, I mean, honestly, it was so weird. And when Wattley did that, I'm like, you sir, first of all, it's untrue. And second of all, you're obviously not talking to your constituents because you need to talk to these people because all kinds of people are concerned. It'll be interesting to see what Trump does after if this proves to be a big deal because it's about economics, really. The data centers are about economics, not about, well, it is about AI. It is. Which Bill Gates is sounding the alarm on AI, just when tech leaders have wanted to pull back on the doom scrolling and the doom saying that we're going to kill all your jobs in a nearly 6,000 word essay on his website, Gates warns the transition to this new AI era will be one of the most turbulent times in human history. And we're not prepared for it. Gates is proposing solutions, including taxes on AI tokens and bots and reserving certain jobs for humans. He's also urging countries to collaborate on regulations specifically contra the US and China to work together. He's absolutely right. Bill Gates did acknowledge to Washington Post that people might dismiss his views given his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. He again called his interactions with Epstein a very bad mistake. It was indeed a very bad mistake, Bill. I also told him that. Talk about this because it's really an interesting thing because the tech leaders have been trying to pull back. And again, Trump is not pulling back on this, right? Not pulling back on this issue and has been best friend to AI essentially throughout this administration, including at the very beginning, putting them in the front row. And I'll just also note MIT just put out a report recommending a fundamental rethink of higher education in the age of AI, calling for redesigned assessments, more hands on learning and course specific rules for AI use, because AI can now do all the undergraduate courses in like four seconds, which is really amazing. So talk about this as a political issue because one of the things that's important is there hasn't been much, is there any plus in doing it or doing stuff around what Gates is talking about? Well, I mean, talk about a holy shit moment. As you're reading that, it's like the call is coming from inside the house because he's saying, hi, I'm one of these industry leaders and I'm saying that not only are my colleagues completely downplaying the concerns over this because they want to make more money, he's saying this idea that we're going to self-regulate is just not even close to having a grasp on reality. I mean, to hear that from him, it should be alarming to everyone. And it made me think back to every time we have Bernie Sanders on the show, which is maybe once every couple of weeks, we always talk about AI with him. And he always says he's beating the drum on it and he's saying, no one's paying attention to this. It is going to wipe out the job force that people do not understand the impact it's going to have. And by the time we do, it's going to be too late. And so he's basically arguing in a different way than what Bill Gates is saying here, arguing the same message. And so for Bill Gates to say, you know, my colleagues are not going to be the ones who are going to step up and handle this. And going back to the meta lawsuit that we're just talking about, I mean, we've seen what's happened before when they are the ones who are expected to be in charge of the guidelines [BLANK_AUDIO] guardrails. Yeah, it's a fox guarding a house. They don't have no interest in regulation whatsoever, unless it's to their advantage or a big fat, pretty contract with the Department of Defense on AI or something like that. Okay, but then the other question is, okay, so is it up to Congress or Washington because we interview those people every day and yes, Bernie Sanders is the one leading the charge on this from, you know, the people that we have on the show, but this idea that they're going to understand what they're doing and be able to do it. Like, I don't have a lot of confidence in that. All right, but do they understand how planes fly? Do they need to? We were able to manage to have many car regulations. See, to me, that's always the excuse. But it was slower, I think. That's what Bill Gates is saying is he's talking about the farming transition, you know, with agricultural, agricultural revolution and industrialization. Is it happened over generations? And people had time to adjust and he's saying, I mean, what I found one of the most alarming things in here was he was saying, we don't have time for that basically here. That's not going to happen in the same way. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I feel like they can do it. They haven't tried in any way, whatsoever. And they've been captive. And again, I wonder if Trump's embrace of them is going to have a real effect on the elections. I mean, of all the things, where would you rank tech being in that list of like voters concerns? Yeah. I mean, I think in rural areas, the data centers backlash, the flock cameras backlash is becoming more and more of a thing. This is police who are taking pictures of people. Yeah, the AI readers of like the license plates. I mean, and you know, I've seen obviously these people responding to the data centers, people saying that's not well founded or maybe we just aren't being transparent enough about this or as Greg Abbott was saying, you know, they dug their own grave by not being more forthright and honest about what was happening and what people should expect. I think that could end up being a big thing. I think, obviously, the economy and inflation, but they're all kind of tied together, you know, because it's making people think about what they have money for, what they can afford, where they're stretched then. And then, you know, these tech giants are building these data centers in their backyards and affecting resources and water is their main concern. And I think that's, you know, is all kind of intertwined. How do you think about AI? What do you do? How do you use it? Because there was this controversy over this guy who was insulting Scott Besson, a very famous investor. He used AI for this Wall Street Journal, his mentor, his mentor, right? Exactly. Well, I think Scott Besson's been soiling himself for months now, but that's just my opinion. How do you look? How do you look at yourself when you think about its use in your life or in your reporting or how you cover things? You know, in the part of Bill Gates' thing that I thought resonated was he was talking about all these ways that it could be helpful to people and not just to, you know, elites or fancy people or people who have these, like, you know, cushy jobs. He was talking about how it could really affect people who are working, you know, two jobs and don't have time to deal with the paperwork for health care or for getting government benefits or applying for financial aid for college. Or it's this convoluted kind of difficult thing. You know, when I went to college, my sister had gone to college, but we were kind of navigating this process on our own. You know, it wasn't really something. We didn't have a, like, a legacy of people who are alumni that we knew how to consult. And so applying for financial aid was really difficult. So we didn't totally understand it, even when we were signing up for then. And talking about how that could be helpful to people now, I love. And I think that could be really, really helpful to a lot of the people I grew up with. But I think on the other side of it, it's, if this happens so fast and it wipes out all these jobs before we even have time to understand the implications of it, it's scary. But I think everyone can see how it's helpful to them on a daily basis. I use it for research and for looking things up. My dad used, my dad sells mobile homes. He uses it every day for random things. My house. But I didn't know your dad sell mobile. I love a mobile home. Yes, yes he does. The dig ones? The really fancy ones? Yeah, yeah. Well, there's a range, but there's a range. Yeah, there's a range. Have you ever lived in an album? If you do an album, I'll call me and I'll help you out. You know, I had a lot of family members lived in mobile homes. So I have a familiarity of mobile homes. Yeah, but I just think that speaks to the spectrum of it. You know, that I use it every day. My dad uses it. My mom is a teacher. She uses it. It really is something that you can see how it can be helpful, but that doesn't mean that they should just run a muck. Or not have worries about it for your job. We'll just wait and see what happens. You know, what I used it for this morning, looking up. I couldn't find, my son has an obsession with monster trucks. I'm taking to a monster truck rally, of course. And we couldn't figure out what this one monster truck was. So I tried to find it on Google and I just couldn't like through the imagery and I described it. I just took a picture of it put it into cloth and it was like, Oh, that's tiger rig. And I was like, thank you. And my son was like, thank you. And I was like fantastic. And then he's in this weird toddler monster truck trading rank with a bunch of boys. And they trade them like in sand. Like I can see him years from now being a scutts, you know, on Wall Street trading stocks. But now he's trading monster trucks. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump breaks his endorsement losing streak. Support for the show comes from Zbiotics. Being in rough shape the day after drinks comes with the territory. It feels like it's just the contract you signed with that first drink. But what if you could change that before you even take that first sip? Enter pre-alcohol. Zbiotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink as the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. 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Remember to head to zbiotics.com/pivot and use the code pivot at checkout for 15% off. Support for the show comes from AG1. With summer coming to a close, you might notice some changes, such as changes to your bank account and your schedule. But what about changes to your diet? If you feel as if you let your diet go by the wayside, you can get things back on track with AG1. AG1 is a daily health drink with a multivitamin, pre- and probiotics, superfoods, and antioxidants. It helps you maintain energy while supporting gut health and immune health. Even though summer is your license to chill, AG1 helps you keep one thing consistent. High quality nutritional support every single day, no matter where you start in the morning. I actually use AG1 a lot. I have smoothies every morning with kefir or yogurt or then I mix it in with fruit and different things like that and make a nice smoothie. I really enjoy using it. I think it tastes good. I also sometimes add in kale and all kinds of things. It actually reminds me if I don't have enough in there to have those things in there. So if you're looking to make some changes with the fall approaching, AG1 can help you make and stick to them. Visit drinkag1.com/pivot and get a free AG1 flavor sampler and a free bottle of vitamin D3 and T2, which I also use this morning in your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order. That's drinkag1.com/pivot. Support for the show comes from Clavio. Let's set the scene. It's late. The team is tired. You've got a global launch coming up and your customer inbox is full. No worries. Meet your new best friend, Clavio. With one prop, Clavio's AI agents build the whole campaign. The emails text WhatsApp all in your voice and find your next sale before you do and nothing goes out without your okay. Plus Clavio answers those emails and every new one still sounding like you. 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Now, it was reported not quite correctly. The majority of justices said Trump could move forward with his executive order, which means plans to do it, not actually implementing, which directs the postal service to help determine which voters should receive mail and ballots. It's unclear whether it's actually going to impact the midterms. A separate injunction is in place in more legal wrangly as expected, but as Justice Brown Jackson wrote in her dissent, the ruling needlessly injects chaos and uncertainty in the upcoming midterm elections, about 30 percent of all ballots in the 2024 election were cast by mail. Well, Trump has long attacked mail and voting. He's used it himself a lot. Most recently in his this month at Florida's GOP primary, but it's what they said is if he breaks, it's like they didn't want to pre-crime. If it's illegal, we'll call it illegal, but right now he can plan for it. essentially, which that seemed fair, honestly, but Iki, but fair. Talk about these two things, where his power is right now. Well, on the executive order, yeah, they were basically saying, "For now, this can move forward." But the lawsuit, it wasn't about the merits. The ruling wasn't about the merits of the case, it was more about the timing and when they were sued over it. So we'll see what happens there, because I mean, obviously, you know, we're 10 weeks out from the midterms, the closer you get, the harder it is to implement those changes, agree with them or disagree. On Darling Graham, though, I mean, we went into Tuesday night, not knowing what really was going to happen in that Senate runoff, because obviously, Republicans in South Carolina, you know, are kind of divided on this, I'm not kind of divided. They are divided on it because so many people wanted to run for this seat, but the president had had anointed Darling Graham after her brother's death, so suddenly the summer. And so going into last night, we won't take away as we've been following Trump's endorsement of power, you know, whether or not he can bring these candidates over the line if he's not on the ballot, it showed that he still does have that power because he basically elevated someone who, until a couple of weeks ago, was not well known, who did have some debate mishaps, whose policy decisions and stances are not really well defined. And he basically elevated her in a way to where she was successful last night against Ralph Norman. And so, and it's not like Ralph Norman is someone who is not this massive ally of the president. He's the person who, last time we had him on this show, we asked him about the text message he said after January 6th, where he said he wanted the president to declare martial law. Yes, I would. And I asked him about that. And he told me his only regret was that he spelled it M-A-R-S-H-A-L-L not M-A-R-T-I-A-L. So this person is a very close ally of the president to put it lightly, but obviously Darling Graham was pulled across the line, likely he's going to be a senator to 2032, at least. Why did he do it? Why did he? Why her versus Stormin Norman? I think it, I mean, it seemed as we were reporting on this when he came out and endorsed her to have the seat just for a little bit in that temporary period until they run off. I talked to White House officials who said it's just a tribute to Lindsay. It's his dear friend that he lost suddenly. And she's going to be there kind of, you know, in just a place holds her role. They did not think it was going to be for the long haul. These are White House officials who speak to the president. And so we kind of said, okay, and then we got closer to the runoff and it was clear that the president thought that Darling Graham should run for the seat really, and now obviously is the nominee. And so I think there are questions of what that's going to look like once she's in the Senate. She said she disagreed with her brother only on immigration that she would have gone further. But wasn't able to articulate, you know, policy on Taiwan, for example, which could be a real issue soon. And so I think it did speak though to the president's political power. But the other part of this is, and that's what the White House will tell, they had to spend a lot of money from his super PAC that does not, has been pretty stingy actually with their Republicans. They spent $800,000 here. He did a virtual rally. He did an in-person rally. I mean, the president put a lot of effort into a very safe Republican seat and ensuring that his candidate got across the line. And I think that's because his endorsement power has been tested in other places and he didn't want it to be tested here. Well, there's a lot of coverage about his power waning rather considerably. Like, and, you know, he definitely had to have heavy this one, right? He had to shove it through in a way that he never had to- Which for South Carolina is- Yeah. That's incredible. That's incredible in and of itself. Yeah. So how do people looking about his power? There's all kinds of people leaving the administration, you know, I think everyone wants to get out ahead of the Democratic potential subpoenas in the midterms because most people was interesting. Also about that, Darlene Races, Polly Market and Calshy did get it, right? Polling did not, which was interesting. They were more accurate in terms of the final numbers, maybe a little bit too high for them and way too low for the polls, which is interesting. That's a whole crisis right now in political coverage. But then again, they got a bunch of other things wrong, Polly Market did in Michigan and other places in Wisconsin. What is the power now? How are people feeling with people leaving? And you've covered this administration since when, like since the first one, right? Forever. Forever. You and Maggie Averman. Maggie, she's covered Trump longer than me, but yeah, I've been there for all the admin years. You know, in terms of his power, it is a real question, I think. And you know, this November, it'll obviously be a test to that, but also it's a test of just, you know, political, conventional wisdom, which is that the president, you know, after his first year as an office, his party loses pretty badly when it comes to these congressional elections. We'll see what shapes out here. I mean, I think with the redistricting and so much that has changed and just since February alone with the war, we don't really have a good understanding. We don't know. And given how wrong the polls have been and they're just a snapshot, I do think we don't really know what's going to happen in November. Everyone kind of assumes they know, but I think we have to wait and really see what this looks like. And so I think for the president, though, in the way he views his endorsement power, which, you know, last night, he was calling Darling Graham an underdog saying like he was touting his own power and acknowledging that she is not this strong political figure in South Carolina. For him, I think it's also a test of he came into office in the second term with so much power and able to bend corporate executives, congressional Republicans, law firms, pretty much anybody to his well, but not Caitlin Collins, but go ahead. Well, true, but hopefully that's the right way to get a smile out of you, Caitlin. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's a whole other thing, but I think that, you know, for him to be in a situation where there are people who pushed back on him and he is going to be in a different world in Washington should them in terms not go his way will be a very different time of the Trump presidency. Is there a prediction? I think he'll cooperate. That's my feeling. I think he knows, right, presumably with with what with the investigation. I think he'll go whatever way the wind blows. I think no, I don't think he'll be I think he'll I mean, I think those meetings between Jared Kushner and Kim Jeffries says a lot. They're going to he's going to try to recover himself in a different way or reinvent himself in some other way. I also think, I mean, this is my prediction. This isn't, you know, I mean, this is what I've heard from reporting. It's an estimated, it's an educated prediction, but it's, I mean, we'll have to, you know, you can't really predict too much in political reporting, if to wait and see. I don't think that they will handle congressional oversight the way they did the first time. And I think that the president hated being impeached so much, even though he says he expects it and thinks it'll happen again this time. I think that there will be way more pushback from the DOJ and from the White House, even than what we saw the last time around. And so I think it will be a very different Washington should the Democrats win and should they try to conduct these investigations. And I don't think it's totally clear that we'll actually see it in the same way we saw the first time. So dig in even more because you're pretty, oh, wow, interesting. See, I think it's going to roll right over. I think he's, I'm not going to say what I think he is, but I think he's a bully and he gets punched in the nose. He's going to stop. That's, I don't know, maybe not. That's why he's doing all this. I'm going to tear down the gamutie center, foot stomping, this and that. I just think he just knows his time is limited. I think he's very aware he's, he's very lizard like in that way. He knows, you know, he has a very good sense of where the wind is blowing in a lot of ways. One thing on and off note about the Kennedy Center, I rewatched Dolly Parton's tribute from 2006 last night and it was a reminder of how great the Kennedy Center honors are and why they're so important because they really did provide us with like this moment of her, of Reba coming out and telling this great story about when she met Dolly. It reminded me of just how great, you know, everyone like, criticize as Washington institutions. That's one that's this lovely moment for the entire country. Do you know 24-year-old Karen Swisher covered it every year when I was in the Washington Post? Mm-hmm. That's incredible. That's incredible. I was in the style section. 23, 24. Wait, I didn't know this. I loved this. Yes. I was the reporter for the Washington Post. I went to all the breakfast. I covered it. John Denver, I remember doing and I used to sit there and get my little quotes and write up to Kennedy Center honors. I loved it. The great assignment was so good for a young reporter. You're like, I'll do the Kennedy Center honors. Well, they actually, like, we'll send the young lady to it. Like, we'll send the young people to it because all the older people are like, I'm not going out. Yeah, it's like a Sunday night. It goes super late. Yeah. And by the way, the Kennedy Center, for all it's, I'm not a big fan of the look of it, honestly, but I just what's happening there is ridiculous. It's kind of ridiculous, weird, weird flex. Like, why would you flex on that? Like, it just seems silly. I get the White House part. I do. It's a weird way, but I don't get the other thing. Over and under, whether he's going to get the ballroom built? Yes, now. Well, there, I mean, there's a giant hole in the ground right now. So they're definitely working on it. And I don't, I don't, I don't, I can't, I just can't see them half building it and stopping. And I do think the question, I mean, maybe it's a silly question. It's obviously not substantive and not the number one question, but should a Democrat win after it is a real question of what they will do with small. Right. Well, the other changes are easier to reverse. The ballroom would, will be more difficult because it is smaller ballroom if it's not fully built smaller. They need it. Yeah. I mean, going into the White House every day and I've covered the White House for 10 years, seeing these giant cranes, you know, it's totally, it's changed the way we cover the president because his departures don't happen where, you know, chopper talk. That doesn't happen anymore on the South lawn because we can't go out there because there's so much construction and it's taken up such a big part of it. And they're also building the hella pad that he wants done by the time Chinese president Xi Jinping comes next month. That's a lot happening back there. You know, what I do love is Arlington Cemetery is one of the most hallowed places that you can visit. And it's beautiful. I mean, brought me to tears when I first went as a 24 year old. The art, I think, will obstruct part of the view of this area. from what, from my understanding of how it is, which I think, you know, is a miss for people who want to just go to the cemetery and pay their respects. - That's a ridiculous idea. It's a beautiful place. It was a Robert E. Lee's estate. It was his plantation, which is incredible to think about. It's a beautiful, you know, my dad is not buried, my dad was in the military. He's not buried in there, but I'm, you know, it's just one of the most beautiful places. - Yeah, but you probably think about him every time you go there. - Every time, every time. - All right, Caitlyn, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, a golf ad that missed the mark. - Support for the show comes from hymns. If weight loss has felt like a losing battle now could be your chance to change it. Skip the guesswork and try weight loss by hymns, an affordable range of FDA-approved GLP-1 medications, including the wogovi pill and the wogovi pen. With wogovi at hymns, they say you can lose up to 20% of your body weight when combined with diet and exercise. It helps you regulate your appetite, eat less, and keep weight off. Plus, wogovi is the first ever GLP-1 pill for weight loss so there are no needles involved. Through hymns, everything happens online. You'll connect with a licensed provider who will determine if treatment is right for you. 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The video was intended as a parody of the horror movie obsession, let me tell you, it is not one, but drew backlash for making light of violence against women. By the way, in that movie, the woman was murderous, okay? She wasn't like, she was murderous. Good Good removed the video and apologizing Callaway acknowledged that it approved the ad before a post of which should have never happened. Of course, mistakes for me, it is not really a good excuse for like beating up on a woman. But Good Good plans to donate the campaigns proceeds to an organization supporting women. No thanks, though they're still in the process of researching which went to give it to talk a little bit about a room of people proving an ad like this. And I would love you, one of the things, I know you've talked a lot about the smile thing and the attacks that President Trump does on you, which are very complicated, I think, in a lot of ways. But one of the things I said when I was on the view, when I was arguing with Sunny Haasden over this and she's like, everyone in the room should say something or she should say something back, I said absolutely not. She's handling exactly right, not having an emotion, doing her job, asking the question, if she makes it about her or a back and forth of the President, it's not what she should do. Talk a little bit, 'cause the text and you are sexist, there's just no other way around it. Talk a little bit about this ad and assume that's why you don't respond and why you respond the way you do, which is to be a professional. - Yeah, I mean, first off on the ad, I'm not in the golf world really at all. I was a car girl in college to make money, but other than that, it's a car girl. It's like the person who, you're in the cart that's loaded up with beer, water, sandwiches and you drive backwards on the course and you're basically like the rolling concession stand. But the golfers are always really glad to see you, 'cause if you're out on a big course in Alabama in July, it's not. - Yeah. - And I would always try to be like the best car girl. I would whip around that course. I would always remember everyone's orders. It was actually a great job. - So you didn't run behind a golf cart, like say Natalie Hart, right? - No, I was driving the golf cart. - Okay, okay. - And it was huge and heavy and you worked like 14 hour days and I would help him and be totally exhausted. It was good. It was a good college job and I highly recommend it. But when I saw that ad and then the response, it's always the response that somehow makes it worse. It's like that people really don't know how to, one, the fact that it got approved and people thought, this is hilarious is insanity. But then the response, the mistakes were made, we're researching the best place to donate this money to. I mean, it's just cringeworthy. You do think, how does it get that far? And I understand, sometimes people make mistakes, bad judgment calls. That seems like a pretty obvious one. We're obviously like, did they ask any women what they thought about that ad before they posted it? - No. - But honestly, did they ask any men? My son's auntie was like, are you kidding me? So why do you think it is, is that sort of a thing of Trump, like manly man or something? What do you attribute it to? - I think with the president, it's more of a power thing. I think that it's, you know, moments where we're coming into the Oval Office to what I was just saying about how people treat him and, you know, we've watched it. You see all the cabinet meetings or, with executives who come in there and they each take turns praising him, saying he's the first president who's ever done X, Y, and Z for them. That is an environment that he is used to and has been for some time and doesn't face a lot of questioning or pushback or opposition. And I mean, even his own aides devise, you know, when they disagree with him, how to bring that up to him and how to talk to him about it. And so I think that, you know, when people come in the Oval Office and the way they've changed the press core, you know, there's one or two annoying people in there who are asking him questions that he doesn't like. Even if they're pretty straightforward questions and they're quoting other officials, like with my colleague Christian Holms other day, quoting John Ossoff and how the White House responded to that, which just was bizarre, I think that they just, it's the questioning that they don't like in and of itself. It's not, it doesn't even really matter who it's coming from. And that's why I don't respond or react. - It is always women. It's almost always women, which isn't it. - And that's why I don't respond to reacts because I truly feel this and I don't think that it's about me and I don't want to make it about me and I want to, you know, I'm asking a question because I want an answer to it or because I'm trying to point something out with the question itself. And so I never want to get bogged down and some kind of back and forth or argument or fight that becomes about me because I want it to stay focused on the question and truly that has been my mentality on this for 10 years now and it's never surprising when this happens to me. It truly isn't anymore. Why has correspondence dinner in the Oval Office any of these moments? And so, you know, I'm there to do my job. - Do you think the other reporters should say something? I don't either. I think, I think they should repeat your question perhaps. That's the only thing I can think of. - Yeah, I think following up on questions is important and taking those moments. Or, you know, I remember there was a press conference during the pandemic where the president would come out and do the briefings himself. And Peter Alexander was asking a question and Trump was going off on Peter about Peter, not about the question. And then when he called on me, I kind of said, you know, people are sitting at home watching this, trying to figure out so they send their kids to school. Can they go to work? Is it safe to get these groceries and bring them into their home? You know, in those early days, it's no one wants to hear about this attacking reporter. They want you who's been speaking with these officials and the doctors to give them guidance or answer their questions or like, you know, some kind of, you know, national instruction of what we should be doing in this moment. And I think that's, you know, I just think it's always important to return to the substance. - One time I was on a show and my son was in the green room and I, one of the guests after me said, "Your mom's really smart, but she should smile more." To my son, said this to my son. - Oh boy. - I know, and my son was like, my son goes, "Are you like 150 years old?" 'Cause that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And I was like, parenting well done. Like, I know, I just felt proud to have this fulfilling moment for you. - Yeah, it's the frat brood in it, too, by the way. He's like, don't talk to my mom. - Don't talk to my mom. - Don't talk about my mom. And women don't shouldn't have to smile. - Also, anyone who would say that to Keroswisher's son? - Well, yes. I know that exactly. Talk to a young reporter who that happens to, explain what's going through your head for just a second and what advice you would give them when that happens. 'Cause it's, I get it from the tech bros, too. - Yeah, and you know, it's easier to brush off the longer you've done it. Because I think, you know, the first time it happens to you, it's all. Obviously jarring, because being a reporter in and of itself, and I talked to a lot of young people who are graduating who want to be in a reporting field, it can be intimidating because by nature, what you're doing is you are sometimes, if you're covering things critically or questioning what's happening, which you should be if it's a taxpayer-funded project or official, has always been my position on this, is you're inherently kind of having this like, you know, at odds relationship where you're asking questions, they don't really want you to ask much less, they don't want to answer. And so, you know, as a reporter, you really do kind of have to, you have to accept that you're the one person in that room who they view as like the skunk at the garden party and they don't like what you're saying. And you have to really, you can't do it to be liked and you can't go in there thinking, oh, they're going to love my question or think it's so smart. Because one, they're never going to be happy with what you're asking. I mean, unless you're saying, why is this so great? Why is this such an amazing idea? Fantastic hairdo, sir. Right. Like, people will just never be happy with that. And so I think as a young reporter, you just got to be ready and, you know, go in there with the resolve. And I also think, this is my always with my thing, being prepared, knowing what you're talking about, having follow up questions ready, knowing what that person's probably going to say in response to your question, will give you more confidence going to any of those exchanges than anything else. You really, I mean, it's like, you got to build it up yourself and you will over time. But being prepared always made me feel better because I would, you know, no matter where this goes, you're ready to follow up. You did that with the Epstein question, you know, you were like, but this happened. It's still hard. It's a very difficult thing. But I have to say you have shown incredible boys in doing so. I think most people think that and they can't believe I would I'd not be able to. I'd be like, can you fucking step off, sir? Like I wouldn't be I just couldn't do it. That's why I couldn't cover it. I just I've lost my ability to not talk slapback at people. Anyway, I appreciate it. Um, all right, Caitlin, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay. Caitlin, let's hear a prediction. Okay. So I was my first question on this was, what should my prediction be in the realm of, and I guess the answer is anything. So I can truly picked any picking that I want to predict anything. Aliens showing up, et cetera. I wish. Please hurry up if they're coming. I know waiting. I think my prediction is going to be about college football because we're getting closer and closer to kick off for Alabama. All right. And you are it is for people in those. She's an enormous so is Tim Cook. Yes. Well, he went to Auburn, though. So we're rivals. Okay, but yeah, right. Right. But not really. I mean, it's Auburn. My sister went to Auburn too. She doesn't like when we say that. Yeah. And you know, it's funny. Is anytime I wear like orange or something on air, which, you know, I live in Washington, New York, like I don't think it's that crazy. So much Malibu. I was like, why is she wearing Auburn colors tonight? Y'all. Oh, wow. It's just so funny. That is truly how we think at Alabama. I think my prediction is we're going to go. Hopefully 10 and two this season. What does that mean? 10 wins, two losses. And I'm sure one of them is going to be some loss that leaves us all just. Who would you at least like to lose against? I believe it's Michigan, correct? Well, that's, I mean, we'll see if we play them in the playoffs and what that looks like. I mean, I think, you know, I hate to lose to Georgia. That's, that's a big one for us lately. And one of my colleagues is a big Georgia fan. And so, yeah, I mean, it's just, it is the best time of the year. It is the most agonizing time of the year. Really? People don't really let you go down there, right? You go to. Yeah, yeah, I go to a bunch of games. I try to go as many as possible. It's tough. There's like one flight to Birmingham in the morning to make kickoff. And I've cut it pretty close sometimes. I've been doing the show tonight too. Whatever that means. So hoping we're going to go 10 and two. That's my optimistic outlook. I'm hoping we'll make the playoffs. And yeah, I mean, it's tough. I'd love it so much. It really is this bittersweet feeling. And I was home actually the other day driving in Alabama, listening to the FM radio. And Paul Feinbaum, who is my favorite sports talk show host that I listened to all the time growing up, listening to him and pee these people call in, Carrie, you would love it. And they just argue with him about college football and state of it and what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. I was bringing that together. Although there was that disturbing report this week about NFL players. They've got to do something. So scary. They got to do something because it starts early on. You know, I didn't have my kids play football because of that. Yeah. I think it's, I mean, it's apparent. It's a huge question because it's it's terrifying. And one in four, right? One in four. Yeah. One in four. And it's it's no more scarier than for athletes themselves. You know, who have to reckon with this talent that they have this opportunity to have personal success in a way that so few people can. And you know, at times can be a huge deal for them. And also with their own personal health and longevity. And you're asking, you know, 18 year olds to make this decision or earlier, my kids, my son played touch football, which I was fine with because it was not, you know, and he was good. They were good. Both of them were big guys. And I just, I ran, I think it was Roger Gideaux once. And he's like, Oh, and I had my boys with me like, oh, your boys playing football. I said, not if I want them to be, you know, mentally disabled by 33. And he was like, okay. And move like nice meeting you. Nice meeting you. I was like, Oh, okay. Just, you know, but I felt bad because I agree with you. There's something very beautiful about football games and, you know, games and sports and, uh, and the community it brings, bring me back to the eye. There's a community of something around. Yeah, but you want to protect these athletes. Yeah. I mean, that's what I care about. There's technological ways to do it. There it is. They just have to start to get serious about it. Speaking of AI, there's all manner of things they could do. Yeah. And you want to protect these kids who are, you know, giving their all in the field. And it's just, it is so special to watch. And yeah, it is. It's a great. Yeah. Um, my prediction, I make a very short one. Uh, you know, Bob, also about Alabama. No, not at all. I don't want, you know, I don't want to watch sports. Well, let me just say my prediction is I can't wait for the season finale of various, which is speaking of angry women, um, what is amazing. Um, it's a show on, uh, Hulu. Uh, but my prediction actually has to do with its settlement that met a maid. Um, this is, it was led by Rob Bond to someone who you just interviewed. Um, I think param, a paramount doesn't settle like stop the games they're playing with all these press releases, um, personal attacks, weird leaks and things like that. And they're pretending it's not them. It is them leaking all this stuff. They need to settle. And Bond has shown his ability to settle when it makes a reasonable kind of thing. Um, this guy is really, uh, someone to watch and it's very clever and spicy. And he has got a lot he's got a lot of leverage here and they should, they, they, if they're not completely idiotic, they have to stop playing games as he said in settle and they should and they will. I, I, I think they must and if they don't, it's over. And so I, I, that's my prediction is that they somehow, someone's going to slap the sense into these people and do the right, do a thing because this guy is, this, this success with meta is going to make a big difference. Um, you know, a lot of stuff that he's doing. Um, and how did you find him? You found him, he's, he's something. He's something else, right? Well, I mean, you know more about all of the discussions. What's happening behind the scenes than I do? Because you cover it every day. I mean, from our perspective, you know, we had the attorney general line as, you know, from a reporter's perspective as an interview guest, because it is a genuine new story. And I think even though CNN is involved in it, because obviously it's our parent company, Warner Brothers, you know, we have to still approach it as a new story and so covered as such. And so we had him on. And I thought it was interesting because he was so, you know, we asked if he had evidence about them leaking, but he was so visceral on his reaction of how he viewed how they've handled this. Um, and I think I said to him at one point, you know, it doesn't sound like you, you know, really want to settle with them or that you're in the environment for that, I guess I should say, um, given where things had broken down to at that moment. And so obviously we'll see what happens, but he seemed, my, my understanding from his appearance on the show that I was that he seemed very confident of his position. He has a good position. And so obviously we will see where it goes from here. Yeah. Some of it's saber rattling, some of it's isn't that, but 100%. That's who leaked. I can tell you that. But it was really, um, actually his office is tight as a tick. I have to say, I've tried my various ways to get in there. And uh, they're much tighter in paramount as a leaky, leaky set of place. Sorry, David. David is always surprised by that, but it is all media come FYI, all media companies are leaky subs and they are excellent for reporters to do. And but it was a very good interview with him. It was really interesting. Anyway, I suspect there'll be a settlement because come on, stop it. Stop it, boys. That's enough. That's enough of that. You want to care about people's jobs and about chaos and things like that. Well, football season goes through January. If we met the playoffs in the national championships, we'll see who's prediction bears out first. All right. Okay. We'll do that. I think yours is probably well, you know, you can't not sense into people. Well, now you got a room for Alabama. All right. I know I can't because my sons at Michigan. Oh, oh, they, they're arrival, right? They're a big ride. They're like good. I mean, I'm going to the game on parents weekend. I'm sorry to give you that information. You're going to have so much fun. I mean, I, I mean, I love college football periods. You're going to have so much fun, but Michigan did beat us in Nick Sabin's last game before he retired. So I'm still taking that one personally. Yeah, I don't really care who wins, honestly. Caitlin, I don't, I don't, but don't lose that statement pains me. Go, go, go. Someone a friend of mine who I've converted to being an Alabama football fan. He was in Greece and he said he saw a guy wearing an Auburn shirt. Then he goes, F Auburn. And the guy was so caught off guard by this like random person in Greece. going after him. I was like, "I love that we have spread it," and we got an army of Alabama fans out there. I'll consider it. I'm not a very good fan. The only person I'm a fan of right now is Dali friggin' Parton. What a legend. What a legend, and again, Dali, what a life well-lived, and what a saint. And also what a great reminder of how to live your life. And the fact that we got to exist on the same planet is so special to me. That's exactly what I mean that. That's for God. We got to exist on the same planet of it. Yeah, like how cool is that? We share the same existence as Dali friggin' Parton. It's true. It's amazing. No fucks given in the most kind way possible in the curve of kindness. That's such a good encapsulation actually. I love that. Yeah, but lots of fucks given too, which is anyway. All right, on the things that count. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Sent us your question about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to send me a question for the shower called 85551pivot. Caitlin, thank you so much. You're wonderful. I really think you're one of my, I got my mother to watch you. She was a Fox, she's a Fox News person. It's always on her thing and I change it. And she goes, put that nice, I'm sorry to object if I she was that very good-looking young woman. I love her. She's really tough. Your mom is allowed to object if I'm not too good. I know that I'm fine because she's so superficial, but well, I love that. Thank you for having me. Of course, you could have a career in podcasts. You make it about it. You're pretty good. You're pretty good. I give you an A. And that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Today's show was produced by Laren Neiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Todd Wiseman, Ernie Etterdott, engineered this episode. Yeshaat Kerwa is a Fox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform and also watch the source with Caitlin Collins on CNN because every night at nine o'clock Eastern. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Fox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.