Meet the Press NOW — January 9

Good day to you. You have been watching President Trump taking reporters questions as he meets with oil executives who are poised to potentially help rebuild the oil infrastructure of Venezuela. This is Meet the Press now and the president taking questions on a range of different topics. NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba standing by to help me sort through it. I'll just take through some of the headlines the president asked if Minnesota officials should be involved in the investigation into that deadly shooting by an ice official there. The president saying no because they are very corrupt people and it comes as he falsely claimed that he won Minnesota three times. Of course, it's worth noting that former president Biden did win Minnesota in 2020. The president also asked if what he wants out of Venezuela is stability or democracy. The president saying we want stability, but we do want democracy. That when asked by our own NBC's Garrett Hake there, he was also pressed on revelations that he's very serious about the United States taking over Greenland. In fact, in a phone conversation with me earlier this week, the president reiterating just how serious he was. The president asked about that today. He said we're going to do something with Greenland, either the nice way or the more difficult way. He has not taken military action off of the table. The president saying if we don't do it, China or Russia will a notable comment there. He was also asked if he needs to provide a backstop to those oil companies who are prepared to get engaged in Venezuela. The president saying, I hope I don't have to. They know the risks, but he did say that the United States will be willing to help out the oil companies. He said that they're prepared to be there for a long, long time, really bracing of Venezuela and the United States for a prolonged engagement by the United States. President Trump also promising that these actions in Venezuela will not only benefit the people of Venezuela, but the people of the United States as well. With that, let me bring in NBC's Monica Alba, who's been listening along with us. Monica, what were your key takeaways? What did I leave out there? Oh, Kristen, I think you absolutely covered some of these really important headlines. Specifically, when it comes to this meeting, when it comes to the fact that you have nearly two dozen oil executives of these major companies sitting there, we've seen the president kind of hold these meetings with industry leaders before, but this one is sort of some policy that's happening in real time, and it's just unclear whether all of these oil executives are going to be on board, which what the president is laying out here. He's saying essentially he wants the U.S. government to be controlling all of the oil that's coming out of Venezuela. He's telling these companies, I want you to basically just deal with us directly. I don't want you to deal with Venezuela. There are open questions about the timeline. I think he first told you that he was looking at about 18 months to rebuild the oil infrastructure there, and that is a major question for some of these executives and companies about whether they think they can do that in that kind of time frame, whether that's possible. And then again, these mechanics of how they're going to be reimbursed, or how they are going to be paid for this major, major, major investment that these companies, according to the president, are about to pledge and about to make. So there's a lot to try to unpack from that perspective, but I also think some interesting details that came out of this. The president announcing that he does plan to meet with the Venezuelan opposition leader, Maria Karina Machado, next week when she comes to Washington. He said either potentially on Tuesday or on Wednesday, he was asked about the fact that she won the Nobel Peace Prize, and whether he believes that she's essentially coming here to share that with him, to essentially potentially have that kind of moment unfold. The president saying he wasn't really sure, but that he believed that nobody is more deserving in his view of a Nobel Peace Prize. And he is for his role in conflicts that he has been involved in helping to mediate in some cases. So there have also been certainly some skirmishes in others, but also something else that stood out to me, Kristen, as we're watching these flashpoints around the world, where his comments on Iran, he continues to say and to really warn the leadership of Iran that if they continue, he says to kill protesters, they will be hit very hard. And he said just a week ago today that the U.S. was put locked and loaded and ready to go if that is something that he decides he wants to act on militarily, potentially. Kristen. And that's another foreign conflict that the United States is watching very closely, Monica. I'm glad you raised that point. Let me ask you about his comments on Greenland because it appears as though his focus on Greenland is gaining steam. And I think it's fair to say that the entire world has started to take his threats to annex Greenland more seriously in the wake of what happened in Venezuela. What's the latest there, Monica, that your sources are telling you in terms of the internal conversations about this? And he put it really plainly. He said something's going to happen with Greenland, whether they like it or not, essentially saying and responding to what his own top administration officials have been saying, which is there's the idea of pursuing a potential purchase of Greenland, something that the officials from Greenland have said very plainly. Greenland is not for sale, but we also know that there have been some ongoing conversations now between the Trump administration and some officials from Denmark, of course. Greenland is a Danish territory and from Greenland itself. Now, the president was asked specifically, there is a U.S. military base on Greenland, so why not expand that if there's a concern about the military presence there, isn't that an option? Why does the U.S. effectively need to own it? And the president in his words said, you have to because otherwise he argued somebody else will. He was talking specifically about China and about Russia and about the potential risk that he views there. So now he is saying that there could be this potential option to seize it. Again, we have seen an outcry from bipartisan lawmakers about that. And then just lastly, Kristen, he was asked whether he believes that there could be a plan to pay the people of Greenland some kind of lump some in order to potentially engage in a deal there like that. And he said, again, that was sort of something they were looking at, something that has been under consideration. But again, no decisions here, just we know that they're reviewing their options. But the president was kind of mocked for introducing this in his first term for talking about this. It was kind of sidelined and tabled. And now you have leaders around the world, especially in Europe saying this is something that doesn't need to be taken seriously because it does appear. The president is serious. Again, unclear through which mechanism, but he continues to lean into the idea that he does want the U.S. to be in control of bringing Kristen. All right, Monica Alba, thank you so much for listening along with us and helping to break that down. We really appreciate it. And we will keep our ears on the White House and bring you any other news that comes from that meeting with oil executives and gas executives. But we do want to turn out to the other big breaking news today. The video of Wednesday's deadly ice involves shooting in Minneapolis, his local prosecutors announced an effort to collect evidence in support of their own investigation independent of the federal government's probe, which officials say could lead to charges against the ice officer. The video which NBC News has obtained appears to be cell phone video recorded by Jonathan Ross, the ice officer, who is accused of fatally shooting Renee Nicole Good on Wednesday. The video starts with an interaction between Ross and Good in her car in the moments before the shooting. There's also an interaction between Ross and Renee Nicole Good's wife who was the passenger. And we do want to warn you. This video is disturbing. I'm not mad at the light. Show your face. This is okay. We don't change our plates every morning just so you know. It'll be the same plate when you come talk to us later. That's fine. You have status in former ****. You want to come at us? I think we'll get yourself some lunch big boy. Okay. Out of the car. Get out of the **** car. Get out of the car. Yeah, incredibly hard to watch that video. There's a lot to unpack from that and we will break it down with our experts in just a moment. Vice President J.D. Vance reacted to the video saying it showed quote, the reality is that the officer's life was endangered and he fired in self-defense. The newly released footage shows a different angle than the ones we saw from eyewitness video in the hours after the shooting, which first raised questions about the administration's immediate claims that the driver was a domestic terrorist for which there has been no evidence. Provide. Out of the car. Get out of the car. Get out of the car. Now, the release of this new video comes as the FBI moves forward with its investigation after apparently freezing out state investigators today, state and local prosecutors responded, insisting they have the authority to conduct their own inquiry calling on federal authorities to preserve their evidence and urging the public to come forward with evidence of their own. We are concerned that the evidence obtained in an investigation that has only been conducted at the federal level will not be shared with our office for review. This community expects to understand what the evidence is and the justification for any decision that might be made. To that end, I cannot overstate the importance of a local investigation or at least access to the federal investigation by the BCA. Without it, we will not have the ability to be transparent with our community about the results of the expectation or, as I said, any decision that might come of the review. We do have jurisdiction to make this decision that happened in this case, where her life was taken in Hennepin County. It does not matter that it was a federal law enforcement agent. President Trump was asked just moments ago about Wednesday shooting and about Renée Nicole Good, specifically he did not speak about her directly, instead focusing on the scene and the aftermath of the shooting. Here's part of his answer. There was a woman screaming, "Shame, shame, shame, shame." She was a agitator, probably a paid agitator, but in my opinion, she was an agitator, a very high level agitator, so professional, she wouldn't stop screaming. I said, "This isn't a normal situation." When somebody sees something like that, they don't go screaming and screaming and the same words. So, I guess you could say professional, but I didn't think she did a very good job. You have agitators and we will always be protecting ice and we're always going to be protecting our border patrol and our law enforcement. NBC News correspondent Steven Romo joins me now from Minneapolis, also with us is Jim Kavanaugh, a retired ATF special agent and charge and now an NBC News law enforcement analyst and NBC News senior Homeland Security correspondent Julia Ainsley joins me here on set. Julia, I want to start with you. Let's talk about the decision to release this footage, which is extraordinary. Talk a little bit about the fact that we now have this very different angle. Yeah, it was really interesting to roll out today. So, first I've tamed this from a source and then very quickly, before we could even reach out to DHS for comment, they were posting it themselves. This came out on their page on X. So, it's clear there was a decision within the administration that they thought that this footage was something they wanted to put out. And of course, if you follow the narrative and what we've heard from President J.D. Vance, that they do view the woman in this video as well as her partner as they call them like, you know, radical leftist. But the video really paints a complicated picture. I think for people who thought that this man was firing in self-defense, it does not show that he wasn't. He's still right at that part of the court. The phone goes down as he pulls the gun. Unfortunately, we don't have a body camera, which would have been on a vest showing us exactly where he faced at that point. But they don't have a policy with an ice that they have to wear body cameras and they don't have enough or more than 20% of their agents. But then for those who are really concerned about this and think that the officer did violate use of force policies, which say that it has to be reasonable and necessary. They may look at this and say this was not necessary because even though maybe it was reasonable, he felt threatened. He could have taken a step away or not come in front of the car. But the way these policies are written, Kristen, just because someone is in danger that they could have avoided does not mean that they shouldn't have used force. Well, totally right or totally wrong. And they're simplified, but they're never, they're never that way. Shooting's are never simple. They're complicated human events that involved fast-moving, microsecond, simple back the action for one second. You will see the back of the SUV dip, the left front tire, spin on the ice, and at the same time, the agent reaching for his duty weapon. All of that happens at the same exact second. The back of the SUV dips, the front wheel spins, and the agent reads for his duty weapon. And if you stop right there, he's dead in front of the headlight. He's right in front of the headlight when that happens. Now, the video you just showed today, Kristen, you know, now you can see on that that Miss Good is turning the wheel. She's turning the wheel to the right. She wants to leave. She's trying to get out of there. But if you go right from, keep this still shot in your mind. He's in front of the headlight. She has just put it in drive. Her wheel spins on the ice. He draws his weapon. He's stepping out of the way and she's turning to the right. So that's what happens. They're both like this and that's a shot. You'll see some stills of where it looks like his left foot is just cleared the fender. But that's where he's trying to get out of the way and she's going to the right. Any fires through the windshield. I think that's the first one through the windshield. We don't know, Kristen, if that bolt is struck Miss Good, could have hit her arm, her chest, her shoulder, could have missed her, could have hit her in the face. We don't know. We don't know where that bullet landed. It's more problematic. I would say the next two shots because they look like he then fires through the open passenger window. The wounds on the victim or the bullets in the car will tell us was she shot in a temple or behind the ear and now the danger to the agent there has passed. So that's more problematic there to explain and you're responsible for every bullet fired. Now his defense may be, well, I thought she was going to run over other agents. Of course, there's no agents right behind him or the immediate area. So that's maybe a tough sell for his side. But you know, he's not in danger if the vehicle's passed him. I think the first shot, the very first shot, would be a justifiable use of force. But after that is a big question if those shots come in the side window because he's not then in imminent threat of danger or great bodily harm and there's no one else present to be. So he'd have to argue that he's protected agents down the road. So it's a tough one, Kristen. It need more evidence. You know, we need to see the autopsy. What do you make of the fact you can hear them tell her to get out of the car, get out of the car. Will that be and how will that be viewed within the context of this investigation? And we should mention, of course, that this is a federal investigation. State and local officials saying it cannot be comprehensive and trustworthy if they're not involved. Yeah, and it's really a mistake to do it this way. It makes it look bad. There's no reason for it. The facts won't change. The Bureau of Criminal Apprehension in Minnesota has a sterling reputation. In my career, I've known of them and had many friends work with them. I think of a sterling reputation. And they would do a first-rate job and present the facts. And so there's no reason to do that. I think it's a bad move. You know, what's going to happen now? They're going to get some facts and the FBI is going to have some facts. And the autopsy is going to come out and there's going to be, you know, differences of opinion. But it's going to get down to prosecutors at the United States Attorney's Office and the Department of Justice in Washington and prosecutors there in Hennepin County to say whether they're going to move on that or do anything or rule it as a justifiable use of force. So that's what's going to have to happen. I think I really think that the big missing piece of the puzzle is not another video. It's the autopsy. That's going to really, you know, see the, be the hardest evidence for all of us to see. And that's not going to be hidden because the Hennepin County Medical Examiner will probably provide it to the sheriff, the county attorney and the family. And so that those facts are going to be visible too. And, you know, we just wanted to get people that are object, given an objective view, I'm sorry, objective view. Well, and we appreciate that breakdown, Julia. Let's follow up on the point that Jim is making about this federal investigation. State and local officials made a plea to the public today. Give us any video, any evidence you may have, any witness evidence. Effectively, they're saying we are moving forward with our own investigation. What is this a shadow investigation? What do you make of this? Essentially, because they are not going to be given the full evidence. I mean, I, they were shut out of gathering witness interviews as soon as they got there. So immediately after this scene, we do understand the metropolitan police were on the scene. They put up barricades to get everybody out of the way so they could begin their investigation. But basically, as those hours progressed in the morning on Wednesday morning, they were told to leave that this was going to be federally handed, handled. And Governor Walters said that one of the reasons why he doesn't trust the federal investigation is because of the comments made by JD Vance, made by Secretary No, made by the president, where they've already cast judgment on what happened before an investigation has been made. I mean, usually we almost roll our eyes. It's so boring after everything like this. They don't give details. And they say, this is a state and local investigation. We're working with our partners, and we're like, yeah, where are the details? But in this case, that boring, you know, usual process would actually maybe lead to something more illuminating. Instead, we have so much information we're getting right now at the surface level, these videos. But whether or not long-term and investigation will hold muster with those camps, that's hard to say because now you have investigators who appear to be split along two lines. Well, and as Jim says, we will wait and see what the autopsy shows us. Steven, let me go out to you in Minneapolis. You're there on the ground. Talk a little bit about here we are. People are starting to digest this video. What has the reaction been there? Yeah, Kristen, a lot of focus on that new video and speaking with people out here, they have gone frame by frame by this new video just like they have the original ones that came out just a few days ago. And the outrage, it is palpable and things are tense here. We've had more clashes between federal agents and the public at the Whipple building where ice is headquartered in Minneapolis and here at the scene where the shooting actually happened. We actually spoke to Minnesota Senator Tina Smith here on scene not too long ago and she agreed with what Jim was saying that Minnesota should be involved in this investigation for it to be accepted and trusted by the public. She also said, quote, they called Renee a domestic terrorist before they even knew her name, speaking of the Trump administration. She's called for Secretary Nome to resign here and she said that ice is making the situation more dangerous instead of making America safer. She says it is having the opposite effect, something that many of the protesters we've talked to have said as well. They think the situation is more dangerous with those agents on the street. They had some tense situations out here with Minneapolis police. The police trying to explain that they had no role in the shooting of Renee Good. It feels like a tender box here in many ways still and people are saying that transparency is a must. They need to see they want to know of people are talking about forensics of the angles of the bullets going into the car. They really want the information. They really want the facts of this case. I'm saying they don't necessarily trust the Department of Justice to provide that. Kristen. All right, Jim Julia and Stephen on the ground there in Minneapolis for us. Thank you all so much. Coming up we'll get the view on the ground in Caracas as President Trump meets with oil and gas executives at the White House about going into Venezuela hours after the U.S. ceases yet another oil tanker in the Caribbean. Stay with us. You're watching Meet the Press now on a very busy Friday. Welcome back. As you heard at the top of the show, President Trump met today with top oil executives at the White House as he begins to lay out his vision for the future of Venezuela's oil operations, hoping to convince those executives to make major investments in Venezuela's outdated energy and drilling infrastructure despite the uncertainty over the country's future. The American companies will have the opportunity to rebuild Venezuela's rotting energy infrastructure and eventually increase oil production to levels never ever seen before. The plan is for them to spend at least $100 billion to rebuild the capacity and the infrastructure necessary. Venezuela has also agreed that the United States will immediately begin refining and selling up to 50 million barrels of Venezuela and crude oil, which will continue indefinitely. We're all set to do it. But the Trump administration is not stopping there, continuing its other actions to try to control the flow of oil to and from Venezuela. Now, the Pentagon and Department of Homeland Security both announcing the U.S. seized another oil tanker overnight in the Caribbean Sea claiming it was part of a so-called ghost fleet, suspected of carrying embargoed oil. It's now the fifth oil tanker the U.S. has seized. Despite that escalation, President Trump does appear to be easing up on some pressure points backing down on his threat of a follow-on strike on Venezuela. We were planning on a second wave, but the first wave was so powerful and so good and so strong. And frankly, the people in the country, they really, they did the right thing. They were smart. They did the right thing. They didn't want to go through a second wave. But we've got a tremendous number of the most powerful ships in the world right there. I don't think we're going to have to use that. I'm happy to say that. Joining me now is journalist Anna Vanessa Herrero in Caracas. And also with me is Denton, Trincoa Grana, chief oil analyst at the oil price information service. Thanks so much to both of you for being here. Anna, I do want to start with you the very latest on the ground in Venezuela. After the government announced it was releasing some political prisoners. Obviously that move praised here in the United States. What can you tell us about who specifically has been released and the significance of this move by the government? Well, this is a huge moment. Not only for the Venezuelan government, but for Venezuela, especially for those who are waiting for the loved ones to be released so that they can embrace them once again. Some of the people in jail, political prisoners in Venezuela, have been in since 2003, and most people are just waiting because yesterday, the head of the national assembly of Rodriguez and else, the significant number of political prisoners were going to be released. But still today, family members are waiting for that fall for that moment when they get to go and meet and pick up their loved ones. I've been talking to a lot of families on the ground. Let me tell you, they're waiting, their expectations are high, but they're wondering why is this taking so long? The last time the government under that time Nicolas Maduro released prisoners, they released around 80 in one night that was on the U.S. So many people are wondering what is going on, why is this not something huge and massive as everyone would expect? Well, and at the same time, there's been this crackdown on dissent. What is the sense about the direction that Delsi Rodriguez is taking the country? Well, many want her to continue. It's going to be with a follow-up of Nicolas Maduro. If she's going to build bridges around especially the press, we did see on Monday at least a judge and journalists being arrested and later released. Now, that is not the case right now. We were just trying to get back to normal and journalists are doing their jobs and their work. I'm on the street. They're covering the alleyway that the jail were political prisoners for being held. They're covering other trails and no reports of crackdowns were harassment. I've been sure so far. Of course, this is something that many want her. Is this one to be an unrivaledist? For example, not only for journalists, for Venezuelans in general, want to counsel, want to demonstrate. We really don't know we're not there yet, but so far, the only episode that Venezuela has had on that was this Monday and then it's not in a good sense. And we've been tracking the fact that President Trump was meeting with these oil executives at the White House today. This extraordinary announcement by the president that he wants U.S. oil executives, oil companies, to rebuild the oil infrastructure of Venezuela, saying the United States could be there for years to come. Is it your anticipation that the government will in fact cooperate with the Trump administration with these oil companies? Well, that is that is our very interesting because let me tell you a week ago, if someone told me there's all of this is going to be happening. The end, but it's going to be reopened. Even plans of that you guys are flying or meeting with U.S. ambassadors and representatives, I would have said wait, let's just think about, you know, the possibility of that being almost almost not realistic, but after seeing the reality and things are unfolding so fast since Saturday, I mean, it's not even a week after the situation that erupted in Venezuela early in the morning on Saturday. So I am definitely sure that this movement, they're moving forward, a full cooperation. We're yet to see what the interim government is going to do legally because legally in Venezuela, anyone who wants to invest in the oil industry needs to be upon our 50/50 or Venezuela being the majority of part of that deal. And so we would need to wait and see if they're going to change the law. They're going to rearrange it to create another scenario, very attractive or attractive enough for U.S. companies to want to come here, and invest. >> And of Vanessa Herrera, thank you so much for your reporting on the ground in Caracas. Stay in close touch. We will get frequent updates from you as we continue to track the developments out of Venezuela. Denton, let me turn to you as I was just discussing with Anna, we had President Trump meeting with oil executives today. I thought it was so notable that this issue of security continued to come up. What specific assurances do you think these companies need before they begin to make investments in Venezuela? >> Well, I think that's just it. Like you said, it's the security first and foremost. Then secondly, is there a stable government there? And then thirdly, is the financial aspects of it? These companies will need a return on that investment at some point. And as we all know, it's going to take a long time before that industry is back up to where it was in the 1970s and the 1990s when production was 3 million barrels a day plus. Right now, it's barely a million barrels a day. There is some low-hanging fruit, however, that could probably add two to 400,000 barrels a day. And I think the President mentions within 18 months, that might be what he was talking about. >> But President Trump is signaling the United States could be there for years, Denton. What do you see as the biggest hurdles as these oil companies prepare to potentially go in to Venezuela? Do you think that's the right timeline years? >> Oh yeah, no, the industry itself has fallen into disrepair over the last two decades. Ever since the quote-unquote Western engineers from Connico Phillips and next time Mobile World kicked out of the country in the early 2000s, industry falling into disrepair, it's going to need a lot of rehab. And that's where the number that's being thrown around at $100 billion, that's what that's all going to go towards. >> I want to play something that the energy Secretary Chris Wright had to say today, get your reaction on the other side. Take a look. >> Today, it's maybe more like 800,000 barrels a day. I think, as I said, I think a year from now, it could be 50 percent higher. It could be 1.2 million barrels a day. Ultimately, yeah, of course, it can be 456 million barrels a day. But you know, that's a decade or so out. >> Do you agree with that assessment? It's a decade or so out? >> For the big numbers, absolutely. I think he's dead on within a year, like he said, up to 1.2 million, where we're at 800 or 900 right now. I don't think it's that hard or that heavy of a lift, as we all know, Chevron is there and has been operating there for some time. So I think within a year, it could be back over a million barrels a day. So yeah, I think I totally agree with the energy secretary there. >> Denzen, just finally, what are you watching for in these next few weeks? >> Besides everything that's going on in Venezuela, Iran is really, you know, all my radar right now. The protests appear to be stepping up. The government of Iran said they're going to be cracking down, and I believe you mentioned Greenland before. That'll be interesting to see what happens there. I believe President Trump mentioned it during the press conference as well as a national security issue. But those are the things on my radar for the next couple of weeks. And of course, as always, with opus, it's gasoline prices. Retail gasoline prices in the United States are at some of the lowest levels in several years. So we always keep an eye on that, and then the refining aspect of it all. So refiners are making a lot of gasoline, making a lot of diesel, and that's going to keep prices low. >> All right. Well, you bring up Iran. You take us right to our next segment. Denzen, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Another piece of news from President Trump in the last hour. The president doubling down on his promise to come to the rescue of protesters in Iran as those massive anti-government demonstrations are now in their 13th day. Take a look. >> So Iran's in big trouble. It looks to me that the people are taking over certain cities. Nobody thought were really possible just a few weeks ago. We're watching the situation very carefully. I've made the statement very strongly that if they start killing people like they have in the past, we will get involved. We'll be hitting them very hard where it hurts. And that doesn't mean boots on the ground, but it means hitting them very, very hard where it hurts. >> Crowds across Iran have grown in recent days despite the crackdown from security forces, and despite the government largely shutting down internet access, the country trying to make it harder for protesters to organize. Today, Iran's Supreme Leader gave his first major address since the protests began accusing them of acting on behalf of President Donald Trump and vowing an even more intense crackdown on the demonstrators. Joining me now is NBC News Chief Foreign Affairs Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel. Richard, thank you for being here. >> It's wonderful to have you here in person. Let's start off by talking about Iran. This very stern stance by President Trump. No surprise, but he doubled down on it again today, basically saying that the United States is prepared to take action if protesters are killed. Protesters have already been killed, but what do you make of this? >> So he made it very clear. He said first in this interview yesterday with Fox that he would come to the defense if the protesters were under attack. And today, he couldn't have been more clear. He said, if they start shooting at the protesters, we will shoot, not American military boots on the ground, but we will hit them where it hurts, implying he's going to hit the leadership, hit military installations, do another kind of 12-day war or something, a direct military action. So I don't know if we're heading in that direction, but there is a crackdown underway in Iran. These are huge protest movement. Activists are talking about hundreds of thousands of people on the streets, multiple cities, and a several leading activists who are talking to me directly say that the crackdown has begun, that it is brutal, and that massacres, that was the word they used. Massacres are taking place. So if you put these two things together, it could be very dangerous. The activists are talking about massacres, that they're being gunned down, and President Trump saying, if the regime starts shooting at the protesters, we'll shoot. So we don't know where this is going, but if you add A and B together, you could see some sort of military action. Incredibly volatile, and yet Richard, this is not the first time you and I have talked about protesters taking to the streets of Iran for various reasons. But can you put this into context? How big are these protests, for example? How robust is this moment? So it's very big. There have been big protests in Iran before, but the timing is everything. So there was a huge protest movement called the Green Revolution. I was there when it started. There was another big protest movement a couple of years ago after the death of an Iranian woman who was accused of not wearing the appropriate Islamic dress and she died in police custody. The government denies that they beat her to death, but that's what her supporters say. There was a huge street movement. Both in both cases, the government was able to suppress them violently. This time, however, we're seeing similar level, if not more, of activists on the street. This is an uprising. This isn't just a protest movement. You know, when you think of protests or demonstrations, imagine people with flags, this is they're taking on the security forces. You see the pictures right now. They're fires. They're in some cases they're trying to physically confront the often feared security forces. So this is across the fear Rubicon. But the difference now is that Iran is much weaker than it was before. Because of the 12-day war this last summer that when Israel and the US attacked Iran, we talked about the nuclear program. A lot of Iran's nuclear sites were hit and President Trump talked about the B-2 bombers, but the Iranian security forces were also hit and those Iranian security forces were weakened. Also, Iran doesn't have Hezbollah, which it did, doesn't have Bashar al-Assad in Syria, which it did. So it's far more vulnerable. But so far, Iran is not showing any sign of compromise. You heard what the Supreme Leader said today. Absolutely. It's coming against the backdrop, though, of what happened. Yes, the President taking action in Iran this past summer. And then what we saw in Venezuela, Richard, you've traveled to all of these regions. Has something shifted in the wake of Venezuela in the ways of the Iranian security forces? This is related to Venezuela. And I've been speaking to Iranians. And you know, they're not encouraged by what they saw in Venezuela. They're worried about what happened in Venezuela. Because what they're worried about most is that they've taken to the streets now. They're taking on the security forces. But what happened in Venezuela was President Trump acted, removed Maduro, but kept the system in place. Get the security forces in place. And now he just wants them to be more compliant and open their doors to the American oil companies. Iranian activists tell me they're terrified. The same scenario will happen. That there'll be some sort of action against the clerics against the Ayatollahs, but leave the revolutionary guard in place, the security services. And activists say, if that happens, they're all going to die. They're going to get rounded up. They'll be hunted down. And they're going to be hanging from cranes. Well, we know that you will continue to track this. We will continue to stay in close touch. In fact, you're going to be here on Sunday with me on Meet the Press. I can't wait. I've never been on Meet the Press with you in this beautiful studio. We're honored to have you here in person. We'll continue the conversation. Richard Engel, thank you so much. And if it's Sunday, it is Meet the Press on your local NBC news stations. I'll have exclusive interviews with Senator Chris Murphy and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry. Don't miss it. There's more ahead on NBC News now.