Meet the Business Advisor Behind Multi-Million Pound Growth

Understanding where you are now and where you want to be is great. Now, things never, there's never a straight path. No plan ever works out. So we know that. But actually, if you have a strategic plan and a road map, what are the, what are the, be really clear on what are the strategic drivers for growth and profitability in your business? I'm Mike Harris and I help businesses to successfully grow their turnover and profit. In the last year alone, I have helped dozens of businesses at least double in size. And I work with small, medium and large businesses, including startups and multi-nationals. Hello and welcome to all your leaders and strategy. I'm Mike Harris and welcome back to another episode. A key aspect to being a successful business leader is having the right people around you to support, inspire, challenge and equip you to face the challenges ahead. So today, I'm delighted to be joined by a very special guest, business advisor, award-winning podcast host, The Brave, The Bold and The Brilliant, Jeanette Linfoot. Hello Jeanette. Thank you for joining us. Hi, Mike. Thank you for having me on. It's the real pleasure to be here. What a fabulous introduction. I love it. Well, you deserve it. Well done on your award for the podcast. Yes, podcast of the decade for Brave, The Bold, Brilliant. It's very exciting and super proud. Yeah. So we were saying just before we came on air that you've been running your podcast now for six years. So episode 600 coming up soon, I think you said. That's right. That's right. Yes, we started in 2020, July 2020. So yeah, it's been a really interesting journey. I really privilege actually to speak to so many cool people. So yeah, we love it. We love our podcast. Brilliant. And we'll put in the link. We'll put details for the podcast. We'll also put it onto the video. So others want to see more of Jeanette can go over there and see that fantastic podcast. I've actually watched a few episodes in preparation for today. And I can genuinely say it was really interesting and really good. And you say some brilliant guests, so I can definitely recommend it. We like to start these podcasts with what I call a podcast pitch, which is kind of like an elevator pitch and gives you an opportunity just to tell the viewers and listeners about yourself, your background and a little bit about your company, the Brave, The Bold and Brilliant. Yeah, well, thank you for the opportunity, mate. So I'm Jeanette Lynn Foetz. And I'm a multiple business owner, entrepreneur, investor, advisor. And we work with businesses to really help them step up and be the best version of themselves. And we do two things primarily. We do business strategy and leadership development. Okay, so that's really what's the name of our podcast, Brave, Bob, and it is also the proud brand of our business, actually as well now. And we global, we have incredible clients, you know, at core hotels, Virgin Atlantic, Nationwide Build, Interest, fabulous, fabulous clients. And we're here really, as I say, to help leaders, teams and businesses be the best version of yourself and go for grows. My background is I've been in business 30 years plus actually now showing my age. And I was in the corporate world for very long time. So I was in the travel industry. I was a CEO of the travel division for a company called Saga, so ran all of the travel businesses. And then I was at two with him many years as managing director of the emerging market. So I used to run the businesses in China, India, Brazil, South America, et cetera. So where I am today with our business portfolio is very much coming from a lid experience of having ran very large global. Teams myself. So, you know, I know how tough it can be, but I built my career from the bottom up like we often do Manchester girl born and bred and then sort of made my way up from being on a graduate scheme at Thompson holidays back in the day to become in the CEO. So yeah, that's kind of my background really, but very happy to be here, man. Good. We like to have an ice breaker and the reason we do that is partly to get you an eye into into the right frame of mind for the podcast, but also I'm always conscious that now viewers and listeners are doing other things at the time that listen to them up, we're walking the dog or going for a run and it's to try to get them a little bit back into the zone. Before we get into the topic of business and business strategy, et cetera. So today's ice break and we again, we had a chat just before we came on. So we're going to go with one that's quite popular, which is what proverb or mantra do you live your life by and why. So the mantra that I live my life, but you only have one life to make it count. And maybe this part of the little bit of age, Mike, a little bit of experience, but what I would say is I think very often we get stuck or we sweat the small things, but actually are you living your best life? Do you know what you really want? And are you living a life that's joyful that is, you know, that you love what you do? You love the people you're around? Because if not, then you're wasting your wasting and opportunities. So, you know, live every life of it, you're going to be your last day, sort of sort of mantra, maybe not as extreme as that, but yeah, you only have one life, so make it count. Well, I'm going to go with one that's similar, actually, I'm going to, I'm going to kind of feed off that one. So one of my mantras in life is. The fact is we spend a lot of time at work. We're really focused on it. So we need to enjoy it at the same time. There's no point doing what we're doing and putting all the hours in if we're not enjoying it. And so I think it's really important that you do something you enjoy, then it doesn't feel like work. It feels, it feels almost like a hobby. And to me, the big thing that makes the difference between enjoying and not enjoying work was something I had a boss said to me once, well, he actually said it quite a few times. And that was people say there's there's two certainties in life, death and taxes, but actually there's three certainties in life, death, taxes and problems in businesses. But we accept there's always going to be problems coming up. There's no point getting wound up over it. There's no point looking for somebody to blame because it's going to happen. So put all your energy in focusing on the solution and don't worry about it because if you're worrying, you're looking at the problem. And if you focus on the solution, it actually becomes more interesting, more fun and you can work it through. So it good bit of a voice that I got was you can enjoy work more if you're focusing on solutions rather than focusing on problems. And he must have told me that when I was in my 20s. And here I am a lot older than that now. And I still think back to those discussions I had with Terry and the way he put it. But I just felt it was brilliant advice and it ties it's not exactly the same as yours, but it's a kind of a similar thing about enjoy what you're doing as opposed and find a way to enjoy what you're doing rather than ending up getting stressed and worrying about things. Yeah, that's great advice. And I think so often we, you know, people focus on what they're going to lose and not what they're going to gain. And it's that, you know, that's the same in business and in life, actually. You know, so if you're coming from a position of scarcity rather than a position of a sort of an open growth mindset, it's going to drive your behaviors and your sort of, you know, your, how you feel about things and your mental approach to life, I think. And you find this with what you do with your big clients around business planning strategy, et cetera. But it never ceases to amaze me that I have clients that fall into one of two camps. So if I'm doing a risk and opportunities with them, I get one set of clients that I have hundreds of risks and no opportunities. And they're the pessimists or hundreds of opportunities and no risks that they're the optimists is very rare. I find businesses that actually have a reasonable balance between the two. And I always find that's a really good way of finding out about the business you're going to be working with to actually understand the mindset. Yeah. And I would suggest that most of them are more the risk long list than the opportunities, but there are some that are very optimistic and have big opportunities. So, so you risk an opportunity should be a bit like a balance sheet. But you really should have your opportunity number being higher than your risk number. So actually, you know, because because and then what I do is risk an opportunity schedule, because I've always had them running alongside the PNL right even in my corporate life is associating a low middle high in terms of the likelihood of that happening and quantifying the potential impact. And on a bit dark and revenue. Absolutely. And then when so, yes, when it then something becomes a high, then it should be moving on to your forecast. Yeah, and then it's about, you know, the mitigation if it's a risk or the actions to make it happen if it's an opportunity. So. And I do, I mean, digressing, but I also find with recent opportunities quite often the same. It's a risk and an opportunity can effectively be the same thing. It's it's it's the flip side of the same coin, you know, you can look at scarcity of resource and say that's a risk. But if actually you go about it and get that resource and get me into the business, it becomes an opportunity because. other people I've got that resource. So, you know, quite often it's, as I say, it's the flip side of the same coin, depending how you look at it, I think. Yeah, absolutely agree with that, Mike. Yeah. Good. So, coming into sort of the interview proper then, what motivated you to become a business consultant and advisor in the first place? Well, I think I'd reached, I mean, I always loved my corporate career. So, that's the first thing I was saying. I was never one of these people that, you know, sat your boss, you know, become your own boss or any of that. So, I loved my corporate career and I was probably got to about, I was about 48 at the time back then. So, that was last week, then? No, I wish my dad wish. It was a while ago. So, a while ago. And, you know, I'd really love the corporate roles and as I say, I've worked for some incredible businesses and created some amazing teams. But I was at a stage of life where I really wanted more control over my own destiny, if you like, and my own schedule. So, it was the right time for me to step out and essentially set up my own business portfolio. And also, at that time, with my husband is 10 years older than me, and we were also thinking about, well, what does the next phase of our life look like? So, he's not so, you know, I'm not saying this coming from a point of ill-health or anything like that. But we said, well, we've probably got 20 good years left together where we're going to be fitting off. So, want to put it on a backpack and go round south America or do, you know, the travel and things that we want to do. So, we really sat down and scoped out what our life together wanted to look like. And that also influenced, then, the way that I set the businesses up. So, it was really around freedom, choice, flexibility, multiple streams of income, wanting to do really great work with clients that I've got a passion for, that I know I can add value. But life by design on our terms. And that really was the catalyst. And honestly, I've never looked back. It's been a fabulous journey the last five years. And was it successful? Have you, you know, what you're doing? Does that deliver all the things that you hoped it would? Yes, yes, definitely. But, you know, it's not without its challenges, you know, Mike. I mean, you know yourself, when you jump out, if you've been in the corporate world, you have a lot of support, a lot of structure, you have big budget, you have your teams. And then when you do set out on your own, it's really you with your reputation in your phone and your connections. So, and also you're investing your own money, right? If you're investing, we have a real estate business. We're investing in assets. We also invest in the growth of Brave Bob Brilliant, our business. So, you know, you have got all of those decisions around your shoulders. And it feels different when it's your own money, while spending, you know, a corporate budget, shall we say? The biggest part of my head is I used to have big teams. I mean, I work construction projects and not as direct reports, but as teams, I would have thousands of people. And all of a sudden, you've got no team. You are the team. Yeah. And it's very different. When you, you know, whereas before, I'd be looking at who I got as best to deal with that. Now, you know, of course I know people and I've got people I can reach out to, but it's not the same. All you've got is yourself. And so, Richard, it's selfish good because it means that you're, I find this anyway. It means you're learning new things all the time and you're putting your hand to new things all the time, which I think is great. So, well, yeah, exactly. And, you know, what I would say is starting a business is different to scaling it. You know, we're in scale up, you know, we're past the starting stage and we've built a global brand that's trademarked, you know, all over your US, Australia, you know. So, so actually we are building a scale business and that is different. That requires different focus, different resources, you know, we need a bigger team, you know, capability, etc. And the different level of investment and type of risk as well. So, you know, it's a great journey, but it really was around designing our life that incorporates our professional aspects as well as our personal personal life. So, no, it's not been easy, but we're definitely, we've definitely had done the right thing that has been successful. You sound like you've been far more successful than me though because there was lots of good business reasons I did what I did and and from the point of view of setting up a business to go and work with people and help them. That's all worked great. But one of my main motivations was when I worked for my previous business, I spent my whole time driving up and down the M40 from Birmingham to London and back again. And so, one of the reasons for setting up my own business was not to be spending all my time on the M40 and to be able to work from home and that just doesn't work, I still spend all my time on the M40. In fact, today, I've just spent four hours driving up the M40 from London to be able to do this filming here today. So, so in that respect has been an absolute failure. But I love everything else about it. So, yeah, we have to do what we have to do. My weekly commute used to be to Beijing or Delhi, you know, 12 hour flight, eight hour time difference. So, it's just different. You do what you need to do, don't you? Absolutely. To serve your clients. So, what do you think makes Brave, Bold and Brilliant different and maybe better than other similar consultancies that are out there? Well, in all honesty, you know, the big difference between us and there are some fantastic, fantastic organisations, you know, and there's a lot of different approaches you can take to actually, you know, developing yourself as a leader and also your business strategy. But I think the big difference for us is that we bring together those three elements of leading yourself, leading your team, leading the business. So, that's the first thing because if you look at most consultants, they'll focus on the business strategy. Most L&D or personal development are focusing on leadership and maybe a bit of team performance, but no one, no one, I believe actually brings the whole thing together, which is what is needed to be successful in business. So, that's one thing. Secondly, we deal with facts and things that work. It's not theory. This is a lived experience of running very large global profitable businesses. But I also know what it's like to buy a business, sell a business, you know, to grow a business from scratch to deal with smaller businesses mid-size. So, we bring a lived experience, so we know exactly what it's like to sit in your seat and that is different. But also what I would say, you know, we bring in psychometric profiling. So, we really understand the individuals that are involved, whether it's at board level or if it's at more sort of, you know, junior leadership levels, because that's so important. So, we actually bring all of that together. And also, the other thing that we do, which is different, I've tended to find in organisations that I've either run myself or I have advised. They'll have a lot of focus at the executive level and maybe the senior leaders. And then down here, there's a bunch of courses, a bunch of training courses. But it's not curated. It doesn't hang together with a common language and a common framework. And with Brave Bar Brilliant, we connect the CEO and the board right the way through the organisation to those future leaders and those managers that are actually dealing with the client's face-to-face or day-to-day. And that is super powerful. That's super powerful. So, it's a very different approach that we take, Mike. And we're very proud of what we do. Absolutely agree that quite often there's a total disconnect. They're doing training and development to the board, middle management, to staff all the way through to the apprentices that are coming in. But then, as you say, there's very rarely a common theme or link. And the other thing that really surprises me is, is very rarely do they actually link all of that back to what the business strategy and what the business plan is going to be either. So, all these things are disconnected. And all great stuff in their own right. But they're missing a trick because they're not coordinating it and focusing it to an overall sort of destination really. Yeah, absolutely. And what we do with our Rise Academy, which is the Ultimate Leadership Development Programme, it's a fully online digital platform. Twelve modules, deeply immersive. Every topic has a video of me, 45 minutes an hour. So, if I'm in the room with you, a workbook, we have provided a business toolkit. And in the business toolkit, there is over 150 assets, guides, templates, case studies. Everything that you need, you can take and implement straight away. So, we don't just go on a training course, that's not it. This is a leadership development program that you can actually put into practice and really impact and get concrete results straight away. And then we give lifetime access to that as well, so that you can come back and be a visit as many times as you want throughout your entire career. So, that is very unique. Yeah. I don't do it for the business and strategy, sorry, but I have a use the same phrase. I use it toolkit. So, for the project management and the bid management, although I don't have it online, it is in-person training and presentation. And then they have like an aftercare afterwards where I'm on a retainer for a period of time to help them actually implement and use it. But yeah, a similar sort of thing. So, that toolkit approach definitely works. So, and I'm sure if you're your clients, love it because as you say, if it's there, we'll have to keep referring back to in the future. This episode is sponsored by Strategist Consulting, Expert business and leadership consultancy for everyday businesses and professionals. What if the key to your business's next growth phase isn't a mystery by the proven process? Is your business at the ceiling with profits flat, daily chaos and scaling up, feeling like a risky leap? You're not alone and you don't have to solve it alone. Strategist consulting is your partner for structured transformative growth. Led by my carous, a proven strategist and project manager with expertise in scaling businesses, bid management and delivering results. We provide clarity through our call service, the business review workshop. This isn't just advice. It's a deep dive analysis that delivers a clear, actionable roadmap. We identify your bottlenecks, uncover hidden opportunities and give you the precise steps to move from stuck to strategic execution. Visit www.strategistconsulting.co.uk now and transform your business trajectory. It kind of brings me on to one thing I wanted to talk about. So you've got a number of programs. You've just talked about the rise academy. But you've got others like the Align 360, Leadership Masterminds, Business Mentoring. Do you want to just talk to a couple more of them as we're on this subject, around some of the programs that you have? Yeah, no, that's really kind of your expert to give us the opportunity to do that. So, you know, when we work with an organisation, often they're looking for some guidance and support in terms of what is going to be appropriate for them where they are. And as even I know, a business will go through different levels of maturity. Okay, so what you need when you're scaling is different from what you need when you're starting is what you're doing is different when you're at a more mature level. So with our Align 360 for example, we would go into a business. We would interview the key stakeholders. We would then clear a clear diagnostic in terms of what's working well in the business. What is the ideal scenario for them and what actually are we seeing with some of the common themes that are coming out from those conversations. And then we're able to then say, okay, these are our observations, right? These are the common themes, the common trends. Therefore, our recommendation to you is that the executive edge program is going to be what you need right now. Or maybe it's our leadership mastermind where we're going to work with your team for six months, which is very much around implementation, accountability, group business mentoring together every single month. Or it could be that there are certain executives and leaders in the business that really would benefit from one to one business mentoring. So that allows us to really create a tailored approach to the organisation. And with our executive edge program, you know, that is where we are. It's in person, it's deeply immersive. It's with the board at the most senior level. And it's a position of great trust, actually, because the conversations that happen in those rooms has to be very open and transparent within those walls. Absolutely. And we have to go outside. So we're there to have conversations about investment choices. Maybe we have a dysfunctional board and we need to really look at what's going on. How can we help? Or sometimes they're too nice. I mean, I've been in there and they're not having the discussions they should be having because they're too polite and too nice to each other. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that allows us to really play that neutral role, you know, to be able to ask the challenging questions to maybe probe a little bit where it might be uncomfortable for them to do certain things. But to create the right environment for those conversations to happen. And ultimately, to be walking away with a clear plan that's going to impact the business results. So we connect the team dynamics, the leadership styles and profiles with what are the business objectives, the strategy and how do we got a match or how do we got a gap that we might need to then address? What happens when we're under pressure? How do we respond as a team? So we bring a lot into this mix. So yeah, executive age, leadership mastermind, rise academy and business mentor in once to one. And we do a lot of free stuff as well. Let me say, you know, we put a lot of content out in terms of the podcast, YouTube. If you go on our website, there's a whole resource hub, a learning hub where you can access a lot of stuff for free. So we really try to help anyone, even if they don't have any budget. Yeah, yeah, good. And I think you're saying about joining the docks up and making it work. I mean, I find stress testing. You know, they quite often have the right processes, procedures, thought process, but nobody's actually coming in tested at what point is that going to break because it normally does at some point and maybe it's not as resilient as they think it is to start with. And it's only when a bit of tension comes in and and then better they do that in a controlled environment than doing it when the business is really under pressure and it's uncontrolled. So yeah, I always believe, you know, change before you have to. Yeah. And be on the front foot. And, you know, even if it doesn't matter if you're a solo entrepreneur, if you're a small business, if you're a huge corporate, the principles are the same. You know, so to your point, Mike, I would recommend if anyone's listening to this thing, and oh, I'm not quite sure my processes are where they need to be. What's happening with my customer, customer journey, for example, you know, just very simply map out your existing processes, draw it out on a flip chart and then have a look and say, where, where are the crunch points? Where are we getting maybe a little bit stuck and where can we automate? Where can we bring AI in? And where might we have a capability gap? And actually, when I put myself in the customer shoes, is it as seamless and experience that you should take? Yeah, exactly. And then you map your new processes and then that's really simple, but it just takes a little bit of head space to be able to do that. And you don't have to have big budgets to do that. You can literally do that, you know, just writing it out. But when you just said there as well, I mean, the number of businesses I go into and I say, that sounds great. But how is the customer seeing this? Look at this through the eyes of the customer. You're looking at this through the eyes of the business. And there's nothing wrong in that, but it might not be the same as the customer seeing it. So always looking it through their lens, their eyes. Yeah. What advice would you give to business leaders and entrepreneurs based on what you do as a business? What sort of a, I suppose, what's your top tip, top five tips that you might give to a business leader or an entrepreneur? Yeah. So I think the first that comes back to that point really, the first is, why do you exist? Yeah. You know, what, what's your why? Because if you're not clear on that, then nothing else will really follow your waste a lot of time and energy. So I think that's the first thing. And then, you know, being understanding where you are now and where you want to be is great. So we know that, but actually, if you have a strategic plan and a road map, what are the, what are the, be really clear on what are the strategic drivers for growth and profitability in your business? You know, is it the product? Is it the service? Is it tech? Is it, you know, is it the capability human capital? What are the big drivers that will really help move you forward? And when you get clear on that, then you can obviously start to build a clear plan, ownership, accountability, et cetera. So I think that's the first thing clear on your why, where you're heading, and then what are the strategic drivers for growth and spending some proper headspace on this? Because we're so busy doing the often we're not actually spending our time on the right things. So I think that time for reflection and creating the space is really helpful. You've got to know your numbers. Guys, if you're a small business owner and entrepreneur and you don't know your numbers, not good. You got it. You want to get some measured gets done. And it just has to be overly complicated for people and very simple, but one of the key indicated of your performance, your financial strength, if you're a small business owner, cash, liquidity, critical, you know, most businesses. I mean, we know that 30% of startup businesses fail within 12 months. And within three years, 50% of businesses have failed startup businesses. And it's normally related to these topics that we're talking about now. All right. So I think that's the thing. And then I would really look at your team. You know, as a business leader, if you're a small business, the temptation is to do everything yourself and there are only 24 hours in a day. So you need to build capability in your business even in a small way. It might be that you hire an admin person. If you're a small business, get rid of all of that kind of work if you can. And then you grow, but you really need to hire talented people that are greater what they do so that you can work on your business and not in your business. And as a business leader, Mike, I always use the analogy. You've got to be like a helicopter, right? You're always adjusting. So you've got a hover above looking at the horizon, looking what's observing, what's going on, making the big strategic choices, maybe dealing with your investors, maybe working on a new product or initiative. big things. But then you have to know when to land. And when you need to land in your business and get involved, roll your sleeves up a little bit, it might be because of the particular issue or problem, something's happened that they need your support and guidance. It might be a great opportunity as come out of the blue and it needs some attention. And then the leader, you need to take off again and then power your team. So you always make an suggestion. And I think those are just a few of the pieces of advice I would give. I mean, just pick up on a couple of those. I mean, you're comments about knowing the numbers. I mean, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's the business owner or the CEO who, who, who I'm having the first chat with. And I say, just take us through the numbers and they have to call in the FD. And I go, I don't need to know the detail, just high level, one of the numbers. And they still can't tap me through it. And it's one of the first things I say to them, you've got to own the numbers. You've got to know where, you know, don't need to know any detail of it. And absolutely, it's the FD's job to have that, that, that knowledge. But you can't not know it at all, you know, you've got to have that. So yeah, I agree with that. And then the, the helicopter one is, is absolutely true as well. I mean, the, the comparison I use is, there's a good reason why most sports teams are not successful when they have a player manager. And it's because they're on the pitch and they're trying to manage and play at the same time. The most successful managers are those who are off the pitch, either in the dark out or, or even better in the stands and can actually see the whole game at the same time. They're not just dealing with that bit in the middle. Yeah. Which is a very similar thing. And I think too many people think they are particularly on smaller businesses, they are the player manager. And they're therefore doing that. And okay, they may have to do that from time to time. But they've also got to find a way of coming back and taking that, that broad view of what's going on. Because they'll never, they'll never see it otherwise. So, not, not the same analogy, but the same principle of what you've said with the helicopter manager. I think it's absolutely right. But the better love is this idea that you land when you need to roll up your sleeves, do it. And then very quickly you're going to get back up into the sky again. I think, I think that's right. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. No one wants to be micro-managed. You're going to push your team off if you're doing that. And that's actually very often a sense of control, right? And trying to control the business. Actually, that's probably linked to your own mindset. There's probably something going on there. Or you haven't actually built the business in the right way in order to trust. But when I had found, and I say this to quite a few people, and it's a, I absolutely agree. People don't want to be micro-managed. Except for in one instance. And that's when there's a crisis. It's amazing how people they need and they want and they ask for you to get involved and do a lot more day-to-day direction and management in that crisis environment. And then once you're out of crisis, they want you off again to leave. But they almost need somebody to be in there to help them to overcome the issue deal with the problem. And so I think there is the odd occasionally. And I've learnt this by experience only from people coming to me and thinking, well, what do you want me to do that? And you just realise they need somebody in there to help control and manage what's going on. Yeah, I mean, I think in crisis situations, you're absolutely right, mate. But you know, you should at any business should have standard procedures. They kick in and levels of authority of decision making. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, one of the things that have been in the travel industry, which is a global industry, I mean, you know, traveling tourism accounts for over 10% of global GDP, were a huge, huge sector. But let me tell you, the margins in a travel business are very low, very low. If you're making 5% EBITDA or as a percent of your revenue, you're probably doing okay, which doesn't leave much room for maneuver and don't forget travel, global businesses. So, you know, I've had to deal with 9/11, Ash Cloud, COVID, multiple deaths in a destination, hurricane, repatriation, you name it. And when those things happen, you have to have decisive decision making and you have to have, you know, to your point, ultimately, the boss will have to make the call on some of those things. And if you're being interviewed on the BBC or whatever, and you've just, you know, someone has died or something has happened to terrorist attack, you've got to be on it. So I do agree with you, and those times that people need decisive decision making. The point is that's 5% of the world. And so therefore the 95%, you don't need it, you know, exactly. It's just going to be that balance. So, yes. Now for ongoing support, join our new Patreon community. Subscribe for exclusive content from the leaders in strategy podcast, downloadable resources like our annual business plan checklist, and access to a four business course. As a member, you'll get discounted rates on one-to-one workshops, which has to have your business questions answered and featured in special monthly podcast episodes. Let's strategise and let's execute. Join our Patreon now and become a leader in strategy yourself. Well, thank you for joining us today. It's been really good. I've learned a lot. So I'm sure everybody else has. I've scribbled a few things down that I'm going to, I'm going to bring into what I do as a consultant. So, you know, plagiarism I know, but I'm going to do it anyway. So, yeah, it's been absolutely brilliant. Hopefully you'll come back and join us on a future show and we'll pick up a couple of other topics as well. And thank you all for watching. I hope you've enjoyed it and you'll come back and join me again for a future episode. One will have another fantastic guest like Jeanette looking at how do we grow the business and providing best business advice. Thank you very much.