Media Relations: the Global Strategic Communications Council

[Music] This is the Digital Corporate Communication podcast. Hello, I'm Dr. Mark Battom, and I'm Professor Villalua Maho. Together we research corporate communication at Uvaskala University School of Business and Economics. And we are co-editors of the Handbook of Digital Corporate Communication or DCC. In this podcast series we interview some of the best corporate communication scholars across the globe. Each one has written a chapter for the Handbook. We ask what is technology changing? Or not changing? In corporate communication. And how are we dealing with the influence of technology? [Music] Today we are talking about digital corporate communication and media relations. We're talking with Daniel Vogler, who's the Deputy Director of the Research Centre for the Public's Fear and Society. At the University of Zurich in Switzerland. Daniel's research interests tend to center around this relationship between the news media and organizations. And I guess especially how this plays out through social media and other digital media. So welcome to the podcast, Daniel. Having me. Thank you. Let's get started with a definition. What exactly is the news media nowadays? Good question, easy at first glance. It's not so easy when you think about it longer. I think when you talk about the news media in general or maybe journalism, we often look at it as an institution that fulfills certain important functions for democratic societies, like informing the society, watching over people with power, integration of society. But there's also used for media organizations which provide the infrastructure for journalism. And at the same time, the term news media also refers to the single news outlets and their content. So it's not that easy and I think it's not that clear definition. So actually it's a good question. And there's also a different way to look at news media. We have different functions that they fulfill. We can understand the journalists and media organizations as countries, actors or arenas. As countries, they can be useful in transmitting corporate messages in relatively unfiltered way. So corporations can use them to reach a larger audience. Media organizations and journalists can also be like look at like actors, like they actively shape or frame certain issues. So they're not just like channels or like that we can use to reach the audience. It's also like they act on their own behalf. They have like own interests as a journalist or corporations. They may be influenced by ideology or newsroom cultures. And then that is third one like this refers to the first point I mentioned that news media also can be like the arena where different actors and interact the discussed issues. They are used to disseminate or create news. So I think when we look at news media it's very it's not that the clear concept is used for a lot of different aspects. Right. So would you say that the news criteria have also changed or have those remained relatively stable? You mean like journalists criteria for deciding what exactly ends up in the news medium. There's a lot of research on like new news values or like criteria used to select them using that. And I recollect that it's that the one aspect that is important is the whole idea of social media like different logic supplying to social media which news plays out successful successfully on social media. So media has a lot to do with algorithms so which content is transported by the algorithms or prioritized. So I think the criteria what is news certainly has changed because news media try to be successful on social media so they will adapt like their their framing or the topics they select to be to reach a large audience through traditional channels. And I think a lot of traditional news values like if something happens in your neighborhood or is it like a large event still applies in the digital world. So it's not like it's all completely new but it has new aspects to it. Okay. So now that we've clarified the news media let's turn to organizations. How do organizations make use of news media through well let's start with the definition of media relations the function of organizations. In general media relations includes all interactions between the an organization a corporation and the news media journalists. Media relations is a part of corporate communications and perhaps even one of the oldest functions of corporate communication like these interactions between news media and journalists with are not just limited to like sending content to journalists and hoping that they will disseminate it but also like the idea that. Relations have to be maintained that the interactions personal interactions are a part of it. This is like the function all interactions between the organization and the news media also true new digital channels like making use of the new channels to reach out to journalists. So it's the logic difference I mean if it's the logic different when we think about you know how digitalization has changed the news media industry is the logic of what we call legacy media and the kind of digital native news media is there. What's what are the differences there. As the first definition also this one is not that clear usually it refers to news sometimes it refers to news media which existed like before the rise of digitalization like new means of communication like all media that came out of like traditionally exists existed also before like on newspapers or radio or TV. So contrast as nowadays there are new organizations which over founded as digital only formats like a typical example is the often composed which didn't exist as like a newspaper before. But also it's also legacy media is also like used to describe like the more technical aspect it's refers to channels of distribution like newspapers radio television and its contrast digital media like social media of course or websites like this and like these two these two like main aspects of the digital media world which also exists in coexistence now like. Traditional channels companies that exist before digitalization and also new formats and which digital media also have for them. So would you say that there is more engagement in the digital native or the new social media news environments. I would definitely say that the possibility at least to interact with content of news media is of course much more direct than it used to be like you could of course write letters to editors this was about like the threshold for like sitting down and writing a letter is of course a different one if I can just like write a comment or give a like on social media so I think the. One I think it's the interact the possibility interact has become more easier also more common and but it's not something that is new to the media landscape I think one aspect which we also have to have in mind is that through all these like new means of communication it becomes also easier measurable like we see the interactions even though of course also in the old media world. News media were very eager to like know what the audience wants to read they will have different ways of feedback loops so I think digital day digitization made it more visible and also more easier to measure but it's not a completely new phenomenon. So we've talked about digitalization and its effect on the news media the news media industry so from an organizational point of view how has digitalization changed the way we in organizations deal with the news media. Well I think one aspect is that the tools have the toolbox has grown we have like more ways of to interact with journalists for example have messengers we have email it's not only face to face so the scope of a journalist to interact with media has become global I could use to be very in a local level like you could call the journalist of the newspaper which will cover in your area and then or maybe it was limited to a country and it. It certainly has become more international also due to new possibilities I think this is one aspect of like like the technological aspect but it also like in general it changed like the. The idea that the power relation between media relations and news media certainly has changed with the prizes of journalism like journalists are don't have the resources to like do proper like research or have don't have a lot of time to to write their articles so they will more often rely maybe on content provided by. For example media relations department so I think the also the power relation has changed between media relations and journalism. So Daniel what you say it has become easier or has it become more difficult for organizations to manage relationships when it comes to the news media. On one hand it's easier because of the new tools like you can reach out to journalists more easier but that the other like there's like the two sides of the battle like it's also become more difficult like journalists used to be where I have a lot of expertise maybe on a certain aspect of corporate communications maybe like think of a very complex industry like pharmaceutical industry and I think these. This expertise is vanishing because of the crisis so it's also become more difficult like to like to talk to people who really understand your industry or the. Well it doesn't only repair for like the corporate world is also for organizations in general for example as a university communication department it's also like it's very difficult to or it's not it has changed that that journalist like sans journalists with a very high expertise on a certain topic they don't exist anymore. Is anything not changed despite digitalizations impact on the function and practice of media relations what's what's what's remained the same you know yeah what's what's not changed. What is still true is that the news media are important like channels or multiplakers for corporate communication. I think the problem which media relations are like corporate communications in general has is like how to reach out to stakeholders corporate media usually have a low reach data they reach a certain aspect of the public like certain stakeholders but for many people who may not be. For say interest in what you do as a corporation the news media still like an important source of information for the for what happens in the corporate world and think this hasn't changed so much I think we have of course new actors like influencers or users on social media will. Talk about corporations and what they do but at the same time this is not something that is done continuously people will be maybe have an interest in one aspect of corporate behavior and the next one that they won't be like they won't provide this continuous observation or like stream of news about corporations for public which is i think something that news media even in the digital world. Maybe more of like the concept of like journalism provides for society of the corporate world and and what's also interesting is actually that. Corporations are starting to copy like act as journalists or news media organizations themselves like we have this phenomenon of corporate newsrooms like companies investing a lot of money in building up facilities like news media they even like copy the wording it's like a news. It's like a newsroom it's not like a even the wording is exact the same as in the news media world and I think even though they like this shows some sort shows that for the for corporations or media relations still like an important concept like journalism is still like the trust wordy source or disseminating information. So is there a dark side or a downside to how digitalization is changing media relations. I one aspect that I think is very important is that one could of course think now and journalism is like they have news media industries having like these problems they don't have a lot of money to invest and we have we're talking about this crisis of journalism and if you think look at it at the first class with. The first class would say yeah go thing media relations department can influence journalism they they will be more like in a more powerful position to to to do this journalism is dependent on like media relations for example but then if you look at it closer I think it's it's not like a like this weakness of journalism is not something that that is actually good for. For corporations because you look like the reliable partner in like this these organizations that will like of course there's sometimes there are opponents they will they will criticize corporations for what they do but at the same time they're also like the allies of corporations when they act as like a source to disseminate information so I think with the weakening of journalism this is not something that is. Very good for media relations and also if you think about the reputational risks one example I think is like this platform logic we also already mentioned like algorithms and social media like instagram or first Facebook they actually reward emotionally rising content so with the crisis of journalism news media tend also to like try to be successful on social media and adapt their style so we'll have. More emotional and extreme reporting also on corporate behavior so typically journalism will pick out the scandals and the and maybe the bad side of corporate behavior and not what media relations department actually wants the corporations or want the news media to report about like the good sides maybe the CS the CSR initiative is not something that typically receives a lot of. Interaction on social media this kind of course leads to a distorted picture of a corporation and the bad reputation among certain stakeholders or the public. Daniel there is traditionally been a conflict between media relations specialist and journalists and understandably because they're both trying to present their own message do you think that. Organizations and medialation specialist working for organizations should be seeing the value more of journalism says holding organizations accountable so with sustainability and CSI issues they journalists do a good job holding us accountable do you think that medialation specialist should have a bit more of a sense of the value of the news media industry. I would say definitely of course if you are in a crisis and have like a issue to manage it's like it's of course difficult to see the value but I think the one reason why. News media and general and still value does like trusted source in the public even though there's of course problems in recent years is that. The picture of the like people have of the news media is that they are like independent of influences and that the media relations is exactly the opposite like people. I get impression that that corporations when corporations communicate they're like they're like only a value in their own interests and I think the success that journalism has as like information source. Actually lies in the critical perspective that they also have on corporations so if they wouldn't have this. This received independence from the corporate world and I think people would also not not value the news media as a trusted source so in the long term media relations. Profits from this independence like having these channels to also disseminate information and I think if this changes if people would. Receive news media as very interest driven then I think that they would lose the. Middle relations would lose their like their alley in the news media. Can you walk us through an example of this for example the global strategic communications council example what can we learn from that. Yes, the example which we use is a case that happened to lead up of the climate talks in Glasgow in November 21. Where a network of media relations specialist worked behind the scenes to shape news coverage emerging from the event so they like the they gathered together as a network and have been promoting like a climate change agenda and opposition to like the agenda of the fossil fuel companies. The article exposed this network and the professions working in it and they're what they actually did and they article revealed that this network had been like established to like to sort of push like a unified message from different sources so they was like a corporations of media relations. And practitioners to actually try to shape the agenda of the of the whole news coverage of the coverage of this climate effect and that really shows that in the digital world media relations is not only limited to like calling journalists and. Making it a phone call and having like their story and placed it's like more strategic and it's more strategic business, I think. And the exact example is a nice example like the how different channels and new tools were used to try to push this agenda to the news media that it shows that media, I think if you think about media relations. The first thing people think about this is this is old business, this is not relevant anymore or a lot of people have this idea it's like social media and it's different aspects which which are maybe more important or perceive more important. But I think it's a good example that when applying the real tool at the correct tools and having a strategy media relations still can matter nowadays. Okay, so what about politicians, they seem to be using a lot of the legacy media and some politicians in recent years have even declared the phenomena of fake news happening the declared war on the media they pretty much did yeah. This is of course a large field to discuss, I think I think the reason why this whole concept of fake news is like in terms of like successful or has become so. And so what we've probably discussed is like that the news media are these like institutions that in the like for many people they're still like the infrastructure that guarantees like democracy. So it's not like if you like most prominently Donald Trump like fake news that he wasn't referring like to like stories that were not correct you like the it's a political and like political term that's used actually to to devalue it the news media like to it's I think this this shows like this. This conflict with especially writing politicians and the news media around the term fake news shows that they still like news media still like a very defining element of our society like it's it's a it's a try to like discredit news media is of course a strategy also to to weaken democracy I would say. Yeah you've described the news media medialations as a very complex divisive area so what advice do you have for corporate communication practitioners trying to manage medialations in today's digital environment. Yes like what I'm not a practitioner so I can also I certainly would say like like use the tools that digitalization has to offer you and use them like in a in a clever way but I think this is more like a comment on which I can say which tools should you use how but I think it's just like a general remark use the tools that the new tools. And then also maybe on a more on the different level is I think media religious relations department should look at the like the news media as their ally even though there might be your opponents sometime I think it's even in the digital world like cultivating the relationship between news media and journalism important because I can't imagine that. That the same like professional relationship can exist with like like stakeholders in general like trying to reach out to all the users and influencers and having like a sort of professional relationship I think is a is much more difficult and with the news media like corporations have like an established. And then the partnership where the like this is something that we know how it works it's professional it's it's reliable often I think thinking about news media as an ally is is a more. And then to think about it as the opponents of your daily work and they would also not underestimate the role of the news media in the digital environment we talk a lot of about social media becoming the more coming to new main media source but I think it's the news media remain an important actor and like with the role like to observe the corporate world they still are very important and even on social media. And even on social media a lot of content which is discussed or a lot of stories were revealed by news media organizations and then amplified by social media so I think we shouldn't underestimate the role news media play the digital world. So we only have a few more questions coming up and I guess I would ask you to look at the future what happens when a I take over and there is no more journalists but a I just decides on the criteria decides what you need to hear when you need to hear it and writes the news articles. Do you see this as a reality or where do you predict media relations will go in the next 10 years. The hard one I think there's a lot of discussion also going on on which role AI will really take in journalism I think I'm not sure if that like maybe 10 20 years from now on we have like a completely AI generated journalism I think there will be tools or or fields where this will be applied I think there's already like very standardized pieces like for example on a football reporting about the game. The game last night I think this is something that is easily automated and where AI can support journalism what I still like a lot of the work journalists do is like going out finding the correct people to talk about and I think this is not only you can't do like this. I can't do the same work just sitting at the internet so then it's also in my I think there's not possible that AI will just take over the work of journalists I think it will be symbiotic or hopefully symbiotic relationship between AI and journalism and with media relations I think this is something of course you should keep in mind I think AI will also change media relations work. But I don't think that will be like a completely AI generated news environment in the near future. Yeah you're right I was just thinking the same that from a media relations point of view organizations could use AI to do that to help with their job for instance monitoring well you're monitoring the organization as well but you're probably meaning monitoring. The external environment the media relations specialist has seen as the the story teller for the organization so therefore he or she has to within a large organization try and look for stories with the news criteria that journalists interested in AI could help with that. So that could be your future research opportunity but you mentioned monitoring. Yeah what's what's being said what what are the things that are rising on the agenda what are people talking about. I think that we have a lot of that's true that there's a lot of. A lot going on in like also like trying to detect early signals for example for crisis I think AI is certainly of of a great value for for this like a practical with this information overload and digitalization offers us. Thank you Daniel that's been very interesting and hopefully that provides some insights to our audience of this whole area of not just media relations but digital media relations so thank you Daniel. Thank you for having me. Yep thanks. You well listening to the digital corporate communication DCC podcast.