MECCA Talks MECCA, with founder Jo Horgan

Hi, I'm Jo Horgan, founder of Mecca. I am so thrilled to be introducing the first episode of Mecca Talks. This is our Mecca-made podcast created to share our community of world-leading entrepreneurs, beauty icons, thought leaders, and so, so, so much more with you. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Mecca Talks. Your access all areas past to the beauty, business, and lifestyle experts we call our community. I'm Kate Bly, the chief marketing officer here at Mecca. And I'm Zara Wong, head of content. In today's episode, Mecca Talks Mecca, with our very special guests, Jo Horgan, co-CEO and founder of Mecca. I think this is our first ever episode, Zara, of our podcast. I know. Can you believe we're finally here? I can't believe it, too. I'm so excited. I think there's so much we want to get into, all areas of beauty, business, lifestyle, and we want to kind of delve into topics in real detail. And, you know, what kind of people do you think we'll talk to along this journey? Gosh, I mean, we've got a pretty epic list, and I don't really want to let the cat out of the bag at the moment. But I think, you know, to go back to why we're even doing a podcast in the first place, there's so many beauty podcasts out there, and we love them all. I mean, there's a lot to talk about with beauty. But I think we really are in a unique position at Mecca, where we've got such that rich community of experts, our fingertips, we've got business to beauty, as you talked about. So we're really just like opening the doors to let everyone hear from them. Yeah, totally. And I think one of the exciting things is that, you know, that amazing magic that our customers feel when they go into a Mecca store, that education, that knowledge around product and the reason why we believe so much in these products. And I think, I think by having this podcast, we can actually really understand some of those areas and delve into them a bit more deeply, don't you think? Yeah, exactly. What about you, Sara? Have you always loved beauty? I've always loved beauty. I think, you know, we talked a bit about this before, but we both came from the world of like fashion media. So I think fashion and beauty are similar in a way that what you wear and what you put on your face is a way of expressing yourself and conveying how you feel or how you want to be seen as. Enough about us, though, Zara. As much as we could talk all day, I think we should bring in our first special guest, the amazing inspirational Joe Horgan, founder and co-CEO of Mecca. Joe Horgan is in the room. And Kate Blythe and Zara Wong are here to make this interesting and fun, relying on you for joining us. Looking beautiful today in your red lipstick dress. I do love this red lipstick dress. I thought I would channel all things beauty today for this podcast because I'm super excited. Thank you for bringing your A game. We appreciate it. But you can tell me at the end whether I brought my A game. Well, it's pretty exciting because this is our first podcast, right? I know. And I'm so excited to be on the first podcast. And how long have you been wanting a podcast for? I'd love to say 23 and a half years, which is as long as Mecca, but I didn't even know that a podcast existed there. But I have been wanting to do a podcast for about five years. So this is an exciting day. It is. And we had to have you as our first guest, of course, because I told you you had to. No, because this is Mecca talks and we can't really have Mecca talks without Mecca talks to Joe Horgan, who is the embodiment and the founder of Mecca. So, Joe, let's start where all good things start at the beginning. Tell us a little bit about the Mecca journey, your Mecca journey. Well, having left university, I joined L'Oreal. And I was in the London office for two years, needed to come back to Australia because I was about to lose my residency. And I'm like, I am sorry. I love Australia more than anything. I will not be excluded. I have real FOMO issues. So elbows out back to Australia with L'Oreal. And 18 months in, I looked at this market and went, do you know what? There is a real need for the most exciting brands that are just emerging around the world. There is a need for a fabulous, gorgeous looking boutique, parenthesis that I'd love to live in, parenthesis. And you look at it and go, there has to be a best beauty friend or a best guardian angel who can lead me through quagmire that can be the multitudinous amounts of makeup, cosmetics, skincare, fragrance on offer. I want to experience cosmetics in a new way. So does my mum. And then so does all those people that I sit next to at dinner parties or in coffee shops who I am telling about this concept. And they're like, oh, yes, that sounds great. So that was pretty brave. And what made you go from like working at L'Oreal and then starting your own business? Like, was it, do you wake up one day and quit your job? Not quite like that, but not far off. I knew there was a better way to bring cosmetics to the world. For me, for my mum, for my friends, I just knew there was a better way. And when push came to shove, I did not want to die wondering. I did not want to be on the sidelines. And you know what, I think that really epitomizes an entrepreneurial spirit. And if you think of those entrepreneurs out there, what they do is they think of an idea and they take the risk to go after it. I think all of us probably have had great ideas, but we've never had the courage to do it. So actually, yeah, I think that's awesome. So where did that first kind of you opened your first store to road? Can you tell us a little bit about what how that came together? How you kind of actually managed to get a store open? How long it took? Do you think it was going to be like overnight or like? So how long have you got? No, I will summarize. To your point, Zara, I think you made a good point and that is you just got to do it. And I can't believe that I have to follow a shoe brand's logo of just do it. But truly, that is. They were onto something. They were onto something. No wonder they're the biggest shoe brand in the world. So I do look at it and I go, I woke up and when I know nothing literally about retail, real estate, recruiting teams, nothing, business plans. I know quite a lot about makeup, but that's it. And so it is one of those things where you have to be part forensic investigator, part journalist, part curious chatter and you pick up the phone and you start asking people, who's the best architect? Great, tick. How do I get the goods into Australia? Who's the best freight forwarder? And who were you calling? Friends. Friends are friends. You literally write down a list, as I've just said. You ring every bank. You use your neighbors. You use, I made friends with someone at the video, the local video store. That's how long ago. That's amazing. The internet wasn't as evolved then as it is now. Like now you Google how to find all this stuff, but back then it wasn't so easy. But also, how do you know where to start if you've never done it before? Exactly. That's the bit that blows my mind. So it takes a lot of courage to kind of think, I can actually do this and pull this off as a as a one woman band. I don't want the message to be that it takes a lot of courage because I don't think it does. I think it takes one, an ability or a commitment to work hard. And two, to just ask enough questions to get your answers. And the one thing I will say to anybody entrepreneurs out there, put one foot in front of the other and the road will rise to meet you. It will. And you may go down the wrong path. Certainly, my journey is littered with lots of wrong paths. But that's okay, too. That would be the key takeout I'd have. And tell us about that very first door. How did you actually get it open? And how did it look? What went wrong? What went right? Some epic stories, some amazing stories around that. Okay. Well, the one thing that went right, and it did feel like the only thing that went right, was we actually opened the doors and customers came through. So few. Again, another lesson. Focus on the big picture as what goes right. Because in terms of what goes wrong, literally everything. First of all, I set myself up for failure by going, "Oh, goodie. Let's build a store in a month and let's have a party for 100 people the day that the builders tell you they're going to finish the store." And, "Oh, don't worry. I can both build the store and stock it and run it." Hence, SOS phone call to 13 friends the weekend before we were meant to launch. So that they literally had to stock every single shelf. Oh, and then there was a defect in the store, which meant that these beautiful 15 mil thick glass shelves were held up by these brass widgets that just slid out of the holes holding them up. And so literally I was upstairs unpacking boxes. And suddenly there was this crash, crash, crash, crash, crash. As one shelf crashed into the next, crashed into the next, crashed into the next. Now, you'd think that that happening once would be enough. But let me tell you, there were 12 different shelving units around the store. Truly horrible domino effect. That wasn't like the day of launch. No, no, no. We had plenty of time. It was two days before launch. Oh, two days. And it happened three times before we found a workaround and went to a local plumbing shop and got some plastic to put around these very beautiful brass duval acts. And what do you do? Like, how do you pick yourself up and keep on going rather than just like give up or delay it by a week? Again, there is no option. You just have to get on with it and you have to work around things. And I think back to those early days, the year after we launched, we literally had about, I don't know, maybe 30 people in the whole business. We did nine shows at Fashion Week. We did our own launch show at Fashion Week, where it was all about the makeup. We did that where I was literally having wrapped all of the gifts for all of the chairs, putting out the gifts on all of those front chairs nine times in a row. And it was hilarious because Kate Blanchett, I remember that year, was the ambassador. And so I was literally running around sweating. Like Kate literally dripping from show to show. And Kate would come in every day in a fabulous new outfit being swished in. And I'd be going, there's something wrong with my life. That was what, '96, '97? I think it was '97. She was like the guest editor of Harper's Bazaar there. Oh, was she, amazing. Yeah, they did like a one issue with her. Yeah, and I wasn't a guest anything. I was just an absolute shlepper of all things needed for makeup at Fashion Week. And I was super happy doing that. Yeah, mate. Well, do you know what I think is so great about that story, Jo? Is that the fact that you were willing to roll up your sleeves and kind of take on any role within the business. And to basically be doing a whole lot of it, to kind of get it out there and to keep pushing. There are people out there who were color matched by me. Because I used to do every Sunday on my own, because it was too expensive to pay anybody else to work on a Sunday. So to all of those customers out there, if you were one of those first people that came in on a Sunday, I apologize, because I know that I was so excited about every single product that it was like a lock-in. You weren't allowed out of the store. And two, I probably tried way too many products on you. But I hope you had a good time. I certainly did. You opened the store. You had all the broken shelves. Then you had this party for 100 people. How did it feel to take your first order? Probably shouldn't be saying this on a podcast. But we actually, to this day, gift the first customer in the store their purchase when we open a new store. Because I was so excited that, yes, I started giving away the product. But don't worry, I quickly realized that if I continued doing that, it would be the shortest living cosmetic store in existence. So it was very exciting. You know, I could have given away all that product on the first day. Because in fact, we did lose the first day's takings for 18 months, found them whilst trying to fix the plumbing 18 months later. So-- Where did you find the takings, Joe? Under the sink. Oh, were you a little bit stressed by this? Do you know, there were so many other things to be stressed by. And I decided very early on that I was going to be very kind to myself. And I was not going to have a negative voice about anything. And that's why when anything goes wrong to this day, I go, how fascinating. This is a wonderful learning opportunity. It's OK that I lost all the money. It's OK that I lost all the money. So, and one of the things I do try and do is I try and work out how much is this, you know, how fascinating moment costing. And in that case, it was $1,800, I think it was $57. And I go, how fascinating. This is a $1,857 lesson in being tidy and documenting processes. You really learned. You fail fast, fail forward. I think that's one of our slogans, isn't it? Fail fast, fail forward is one of our slogans. I have a cup that I was given as a Chris Kringle here at Mecca that says, "Sale fast, sale forward." Because I was talking to a journalist and was explaining my fail fast, fail forward concept, which is, do you know what, it doesn't matter how many times you have to try something to get it right. Just keep on going, keep on going until you do. And obviously, my elocution isn't that good because they interpreted it as "sale fast, sale forward." And that was the title of the article. That was the pull quote. That's incredible. I think we love hearing all these stories of where you failed because you look at how big Becker is now. We've got so many stores. We've got a website. We've got in New Zealand. What are some moments of failure that has really stayed with you? And funny ones as well. Yeah, you're kind of, "Oh, Lordy, Lordy moments." That will go in your memoirs. Can I tell you, there have been so many. Well, the glass shelves, one. Georgia's closing was a real "Oh, beep" moment because that was our second store. And suddenly we were down back to one store. 50% down. We're 50% down. There are funny ones. Like, I was thinking I was very fabulous in New York on a stage presenting to 300 global beauty CEOs at the Women's Wear Daily Beauty CEO Summit. And one minute, 31 seconds into the presentation, I literally, for no reason, full on fell over on a wooden stage. And it was like an elephant had just gone, "Crash" onto the floor. Were you, were you hot on? Yeah, were you dirt? Well, more importantly, were you moving? Or were you just standing there and you just dropped? My shoe, fabulous shoe, clipped the Perspex podium. And so, boom. And as I went down, of course, I was going, "Always listen to your mother. Am I wearing, you know?" Nice underwear. Nice underwear. Have you ever worn body concierge shoes? Do you ever wear those shoes again? Or were they just like, no? I do now have a little bit of a rule if I'm doing a presentation. It's either flats or I find out that I'm sitting down first. Yes. See, I learned from my mistake. You learned to listen, fell. So, okay, so you fell. Did you hurt yourself, firstly? And did I fell forward? And did you, how did you style it out? Because I think that's the genius of having something like that in front of a whole large 300 people of peers. Yeah, how do you recover? Well, I had literally about three hours to think about it. Because when you do fall, it takes three hours in your own mind to hit the boards. And so, I got up and I went, "Oh, feel just like Naomi Campbell." Because you're a bushy fell in those tarrings. Vivian Westwood show. Vivian Westwood. Of course, you know that because you're such a fashionista. All I remember was seeing it on the news going, "Oh, you poor thing." And now I can say that about me. Me and Naomi, we have at least one thing in common, not the towering legs or the fabulous demeanor, but we can fall over. That's another character defining moment. And there have been so many more. I'm going to give you a recent one, because I think this is also a good one. We were so excited internally, you know, clicking our heels, going whoop whoop. We've just signed at least for the biggest store in the Southern Hemisphere on the busiest corner in Sydney. It's going to be mega. It's going to be amazing. And then COVID hit. And then they showed all of these pictures on the news. It's like, literally tumbleweed and Coke can, sort of rolling down these empty CBDs. Oh, how scary is that? And we were like, "Oh, that's quite exciting." And then, literally, if you can imagine this, we had to take possession of a 162-year-old 1,800-meter building via Zoom. It had the most stringent heritage listing restrictions on it. And we're going around on Zoom saying, "Oh, yes, that piece of plumbing looks a bit okay. We're going to have to be careful with that. Oh, yeah, that's ceiling." I mean, it was insane. And then we had to build a store that was 20 times bigger than our first store without a single person from Mecca being able to set foot in it until four days before launch. So for the entire four months of the build, we were all in lockdown in Melbourne. It was white knuckle. Okay, so, Jo, we've talked about some of the more hilarious moments or scary moments. But what about those moments where you think, "I actually can't believe this is my life?" Have there been a few of those? Do you know what? There are so many of those moments. But if I had to sort of bucket the ones that mean the most to me, there'd be, with brand founders, to be honest with you, be that sitting in Estee Lauder's office on the 40th floor in New York looking over Central Park going, "Oh, I feel like I really made it now." Be it, you know, in Frederick Miles' new store in Ruda Grinnell in Paris, literally the day after it opened as he's taking all of the press editors around and me with my flappy ears feeling like I was so part of it. I wasn't really, but I walked out with all the information going, "One day that brand will be a mecca." Then, you know, there's moments where, even if it's not in the beauty industry, for example, Mickey Drexler, he was introduced to me and I was in J-Crew's offices in New York and I was trailing around with him going to stores for the day, seeing how he held all his meetings. I was like, "I'm going to learn so much. I am learning so much." Being in Korea and being whisked out to a more a Pacific's manufacturing plant is just not right. It's their founding space, Pritzker prize-winning architect filled with extraordinary art. I just think the vision that goes with this is so inspiring. Going to Kim Kardashian's office to meet with her to talk about... Oh, actually, I signed an NDA, so I probably shouldn't be talking. That's a joke. You can tell us after the podcast ends. We want the details on that. She's so much smaller than you think, right? I just signed an NDA. You can say what you like, Sarah. You've had some amazing mentors that you mentioned, Mickey. Like, how do you find these mentors and how do you maintain a relationship and what advice have they given you? Do you know what? Mentors, that's part... Pinch me moment in itself and part, "Okay, how do I try and extend this relationship?" So, Jim Collins, I've read his book, Good to Great. I read it every year once a year for 20 years. And last year, we actually had him come and speak at Mecca. That was a... Sorry, I should say virtually because it was COVID. I could say. But for me, that was a real moment of like, this is an aha moment where I'm bringing my mentor to life for everybody. And there are people who I've only met once. People like Tien and Brady, for example, who came out to Australia to run the Marriage Equality Campaign. And he came and spoke with us. And then there are the people in Beauty, for example. I've met along the way. Leonard Lauder has been an extraordinary mentor from 2000 and has helped on, I'd say, every critical decision. He's been there giving advice. Stevie Bennett started Country Road here in Australia. He's a legend. Yeah. Leslie Blodgett, interestingly, who started Bare Essentials. I found the way she brought cosmetics to life in a community way before social media. So inspiring. And I found her energy and insight just phenomenal. People like Bob Metler, who's another incredible reshaler. Pete, my very clever husband. He's very clever. And my parents. There have been so many mentors. But it's interesting how you, I think, working with you, Joe, you're so open to those kind of people who inspire you and the ideas that people have. And that feeds your creativity as well. So it's totally understandable that you kind of pick those mentors up along the way, would you say? I think it's interesting. Cheryl Sandberg talks about this in her book, Lean In. And it's like, don't go and ask someone to be a mentor. If we go and see them and then action what they tell you. Action what you're going to action. And then go back and tell them. And people love to feel they're making a difference. So if they feel that they're making a difference to your trajectory and your outcome, that will spur them on to meet with you again. And it becomes a very natural thing. So you've had these amazing kind of, well, you've had these kind of terrifying moments that have kind of all worked out. And you've had these incredible off the charts, blow your mind moments as well. And all of that combined has given you this incredible business and this incredible career along the way. And I take it with that sort of experience, that level of knowledge you have. How have you taken that and sort of paid it forward? How do you then inspire a new generation of women? How do you think about taking your knowledge and imparting that on the people around you as well? I think it comes back to the purpose of Mecca because yes, there have been incredible highs. Yes, there have been really, really scary moments. But I think having a purpose of, why am I getting out of bed every day helps enormously. And for me, it has been from the beginning to help people look, feel, and most importantly, be their best. And over time, that's really evolved. Originally it was, how can we demystify beauty for customers? Then very hot on the heels of that, once there were more than sort of two people in the business, is like, how can we take this extraordinary talent? And Mecca was built predominantly by women and usually young women. And how can we empower our teams? How can we educate them? How can we give them the confidence? And how can we give them the platform to succeed? And then the next natural evolution of that was saying, okay, how can we take these ideas to the broader community? And my grandmother used to be slightly horrified at just how strident a feminist she thought I was when I was five. And I'm now not five. I had the AstraZeneca that makes me over 50, just saying. And even now, we do not have gender equality. We're 100 years away from gender equality. And so I look at it and I go, I don't have the Steve Jobs, you know, lofty goal of having a dint in the whole universe. But if Mecca can dint both the beauty universe and the universe of having equality, then I think it has a fabulous role to play. And that's why, for example, we have Meccaversity. It's this incredible platform where it teaches you not only about cosmetics and skincare, but it teaches you how to run a business. It teaches you how to live your life with confidence. It teaches you how to be financially competent. There's so much on there. And I love that we launched it during COVID super quickly. And during that time, our team spent 120,000 hours learning from that. And that then flows through to Mecca's Empower Program where our goal is to educate 10,000 girls, put them through secondary school, do that by 2025. Because again, all the research shows that education is the greatest leveler. That is going to make the greatest move towards gender equality. But I think it's so fascinating because it's such a strong pillar of Mecca as well. It's not just, well, obviously it's totally crucial that piece of Empower, but also the education that you've decided as the leader and founder of the business, that educating your staff and creating an amazing staff of educated professionals that work, install, and everywhere across the business was going to be one of the big differentiators. When did you have that light bulb moment to think that actually, rather than just having people who can guide you to a product, but having people who really understand the reason why a product is so important and special and different, when did you realize that was going to be a big, unique moment for you? From the very beginning, I knew that education was a centerpiece of Mecca. And then the other piece, education can be a little dry. Professors can be very clever, but sometimes not the beating heart or laugh a minute person that you're going to spend the night at the party with. And we wanted to make sure that Mecca, it was all about your best beauty friends. So we've also tried to really pour in this sense of customer connection and community and empathy and fun and life and just make sure that you have a fabulous time, both with the information and with people who are as enthusiastic about beauty as you could ever be. How do you get your energy? Like how do you, you know, keep on going, have your energy, have this little motivation to like imbue in Mecca? I think I'm naturally optimistic, suddenly optimistic personality helps enormously. I think I'm clear on my purpose. I think when you love what you do and you know why you're doing it, I think that's super helpful. Big believer that health is wealth, that, you know, I meditate, I do yoga, go for lots of walks, that gives me great energy. And then the real kicker for me is I get huge energy from being around super creative, super dynamic, committed people. And when you're all pulling in the same direction, you're all trying to get the same outcome. That to me is a sense of flow and the energy that comes from that. And you'd think that it would be exhausting, but it's not. I love what I do and I love the people I do it with. That is just tick, tick, tick for a happy life. So we really want to get to know the real joke. So we've got some fun questions from our Mecca community. Are you ready? Hit me. What's the first thing you do every day and what's last? First thing, I take off my silk eye mask and take out my earplugs and bring myself out of my sleep cocoon. Yes, I am that neurotic. And what about the last thing, Joe? Last thing, actually, fabulous Jesse from Social gave me a Kris Kringle two years ago, which was a diary with five lines a day. And the last thing I do every day is fill that out. What time do you wake up in the morning? Five o'clock is my normal go-to time, to be honest, because after I have unsleep cocooned, I like to meditate and then do some form of exercise. And I know that sounds really annoying. And let me tell you, there are many days where I sidestep that whole bit. But that is the... What are those exercises, Joe? Yoga or taking my dog for a walk. Pre COVID, you are a bit of an international traveller. And I think you're probably missing that a lot. So when we can travel again, where will be the first place you'll go? Well, I think the first thing I'm going to have to do is literally do a brand trip. So I'm going to cheat and say, I am going to buy myself a round the world ticket. And it is going to be LA, Chicago, New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, and then probably home. So that's going to be the first trip. I know that's not what you wanted. No, that sounds like it. That sounds like an epic trip. Do you know what? It will be epic. And so many people say to me, oh, I want to come with you on holidays. And I'm like, let me tell you, doing all of those cities in 10 days, not so much holiday. Are you a big planner or are you a bit spontaneous on a holiday? Oh, now we get to the holiday bit. On a holiday, I have an itinerary and it includes everything from the walks we're going to do, the places we're going to go at what time. And my children have got to the age where they now rail against that. So I just planned for myself. And we've got a question in here, Joe. What's the one recipe you cook over and over again? Again, I think you know the answer to this. I can't cook. So that's what I'm putting out there first and foremost. But what I do say to friends who look slightly aghast, I'm very good at assemblage, which means if you don't have to apply heat, then a rice cake, avocado, Meredith goat's cheese, lots of herbs and chili. And that is my go-to cooking. I love that. And that sounds actually quite delicious. Another question for you. What is your worst habit? My worst habit, I would have to say, and now I feel like it's one of those job interviews where I'm making it like a good thing. But I'll tell you the bad bits that come from it. So I try and shove too much into the day. OK, so that makes me sound really productive. Bad side of it is, one, I run late, like this morning, sorry. And two, I am so not on top of my emails. So for anyone who's listening, who's sent me an email and I have not responded or it's taken me an age, again, that is an outcome of that habit. Well, how do you kind of wind down from that level of busyness? Because that's a, you know, it's a full-on day starting at five and probably going right into the evening. How do you kind of take time for yourself to chill out? Like everybody's busy and everybody has the same level of trying to pack activity into their day. So for me, it is that meditation that has helped enormously, exercise helps enormously. And to be honest with you, I have a 14-year-old son and sitting watching some sort of superhero movie. A bit of an expert on those now. Do you know who I am too? That's why I moved to Australia is to meet Thor. You know that. Well, fire and bay off you go. Yeah, that's exactly why I'm here. What would you say is your best trait? I think I'm suddenly optimistic and that can be seen as a best trait. It can be seen as being infuriating by others, many of whom I work with because I'm like, we can do this, we'll work it out. It's exciting. And other people are going, practicalities, hello obstacles, hello challenges, but I think being optimistic. And Joe, you are naturally a super positive, vibrant person. And I think that comes out also in your style. If you had to look to someone for inspiration, Stalin's inspiration, who would that be? Oh, that's such a difficult question. And that is a super positive take on my style because another way you could look at it. I always look like a rainbow has vomited all over me. I just love color, color, color, color and slightly mismatched and pattern, pattern, pattern, pattern. So that's a positive way of looking at it. Thank you. On style at the moment, I'm probably veering back towards designers as opposed to anyone else. And Dries van Noten, for example, I just love what he does. I love the stories behind how he does it. It's the level of obsession and detail and storytelling. And I think a very intellectual approach to style that interests me at the moment. And one of the things that has kind of taken my breath away when I walked into that flagship store was the interjection of beauty with architecture as well. And I think that is a passion of yours. And so if you could choose one favorite thing in your house, or one thing that means the most to you, what would it be? Not including your children or your husband. That has to be the dog. Oh, it has to be the world's best dog. No dog, no dog. Okay, if it can't be the dog, unfortunately, this is not going to be the answer you want. It would have to be my hammock. Because if I get to, if I get to swing in that hammock, then that is a winning day. But if I'll answer it now the way you would like me to answer it. And that is I love glass and I love colored glass. And so I collect vases and glasses. And seeing these Murano vases filled with beautiful, and I love flowers. So every week I get out, again, sort of the vomiting rainbow array of different vases. And Mark Douglas actually has done some of the vases for us in flagship. And so he's now added to the collection. And they give me enormous joy, both the sparkling bases, and the beautiful natural flowers, or leaves from the garden. And if you go into the flagship store, the most incredible Murano glass chandeliers are hanging there, and these incredible colors as well. I just love those chandeliers so much. And I do feel that there is this incredible joy from beautiful colored glass in any environment. Thank you, Jo, so much for giving us the time today to come to talk to us for our first episode of Mecca Talks. I am just so thrilled that Mecca Talks has launched. And if that means that I get to riff with you two, you know, what all we need now is the glass of wine. And it would just be like an afternoon sort of Friday cocktail. That's how we should be doing Mecca Talks. I think we're going to be getting you back quite frequently. So we'll make sure next time we have wine and chips and anything else. Bring your dog. And bring the dog. Best dog in the world. Thank you for listening to this episode of Mecca Talks. If you liked what you heard, follow us on your favorite podcast app, and you'll be notified as soon as our next episode becomes available. Don't forget to rate, review, and share this episode with your friends. To stay up to date on what's going on in the Mecca Verse, find us on Instagram at @MeccaBeauty, or join the conversation in our Mecca Chit Chat Facebook group. You've been listening to Mecca Talks. Thank you for joining us.