1201: Match Play at the Tour Championship

Be the right club. Be the right club today. Johnny, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different? We rocked him. We rocked him. TC calling in from the Northeast on assignment here today. Hello, TC. Greetings, gentlemen. Sorry I couldn't be up there in Atlanta. You guys know how much Eastlake means to me. Will you still support the Eastlake Foundation, TC? Will you still support it? I will. I am on a site visit to some of these courses that we're evaluating. Some of these top 100s. I think we found the person. I'm the perfect man for that job. You know, I think, yeah, we'll get into it. But now, yeah, I'm excited to be a D-rider for the Tour now. Now that they're putting our ideas into mission here. We're going to react to the news that was announced, of course, today. We have, I'm sure, plenty to say about that. I'll react to other things that were brought up at Brian Roelof's press conference today. Some key questions. Great questions asked, if I may say, by the Krupp Golf Media that were in attendance there. And grilling them on some things. We also spoke with Max Homa. We recorded this yesterday. We're going to play that for you at the end of our conversation here. His reaction to the changes from a player's perspective. How that has gone about. How the Tour's been communicating kind of under this new regime. Things like that. And a lot to react to. Today's show, we're going to run this opening segment here commercial-free. Thanks to our friends at Titleist. Still plenty of golf season left. Go get fit. If I may, go get fit now while you're playing some golf. You know, maybe if you're thinking about in the offseason. No, do it now. Like, you don't want to be rusty and shaky. Kind of on a fitting session. Titleist.com. I said that free. But I included that. That was my own editorial comment there, if I may say. So, Deej, what happened today? Take us there. Let's assume somebody is, you know, not spending their lives on Twitter and social media and watching, you know, PGA Tour press conferences in the middle of their workday. Looking to get caught up. What happened? Take us there. Yeah, there's a lot that happened today. I think it's worth reiterating just out of an abundance of caution what's already happened, which is that it kind of, was laid bare by the press conference today. I think just like zooming out for a second. We were in Eastlake a year ago. Brian Rollap kind of introductory press conference. What's, you know, what's the deal, man? What's going on? And he laid out a lot of things that were like, we're going to look at this. We're going to look at this. And it was kind of wild today to sit there a year later and be like, oh, man, we've kind of, we've kind of rocked him on a lot of those things that he kind of laid out what he said he was going to do. And it seems like they've kind of done it. And, and so, what's the deal? So what's been included in that is a two-track PGA Tour, the championship track and the challenger track, which is going to kick off in 2028. And a lot of what we talked about today is what is the postseason look like for that championship track? So rather than the FedEx Cup playoffs, it all comes down to this. How are we, how are we reimagining things a little bit? So again, if you allow me to kind of zoom out, we're going to have this challenger track. That's about a hundred and thirty ish hundred and thirty-two ish. Guys will have a hundred and twenty-two or a hundred and twenty man fields with cuts will be that championship track of events. And then what is going to end up happening is we're going to have a championship. Like, what do they call it? The PGA Tour series finale championship series finale is going to be really the final event season. We're going to figure out who are 90 guys are that keep their cards of those hundred and thirty-two. The rest will be relegated following year back down to the challenge. Challenger series a lot of qualifications and stuff still to come on how all of that's going to work. Just clarifying really quick. You caught for a second. Do you see if you said final event of the season? Like this championship series finale is considered part of the postseason. It is a postseason event. There is a final hundred and thirty person stroke play event of the regular season, whatever they're calling it and then to kick off the postseason. There's a final 90 person stroke play tournament. Those 90 people are keeping their cards for 2029. From that 90 year willing it down to 32 for match play. Correct and of those 32. We're going to have a two-week tour championship two different venues. The first week we're going to knock 16 of the 32 out via match play, which is going to be a thrill and then the final 16 are going to go to another venue to play four rounds of match play. They're all going to play each each day, which is kind of interesting, you know, so I think they'll play for the difference between. The 16 seed and the 15 seed and the 14 seed all the way up till identifying the one person who is undefeated who will be your playoffs winner your season winner. So a lot of a lot of good out of here, but I mean TC I'll throw it to you. What was kind of your what's your first reaction here? I think it's been a great rollout first and foremost. I think in the past it felt like they would have tried to explain like they would have told us anything over the last six, eight 12 months and then they would have announced everything today done it kind of poorly and then everybody would have been really confused and they were over promised and probably ended up under delivering. I think today was like he just keeps meeting the milestones right of like when he was at players. He said, hey, I'll have more for you at Travelers at Travelers. He said, hey, I'll have more for you at Eastlake. I'm sure we'll hear more in November at some point but it just feels really coherent and simple but not easy. Right? I think between the different levels, but also like it's it's pretty clean. I thought the the explainer thing the visualized, you know tweet was like that's that's the kind of stuff that like those are the kind of details that I think help you buy in from a fan perspective as well. So, you know a lot still to still to come as far as you know, how the point system will work and all that stuff and I know we'll have last chance kitchen there in the fall and you know, how like how these these fields are going to kind of net up and down from you know, like how you bring in the sponsor like no sponsor exemptions, but how you bring in the lifetime membership or career money list exemption. How you fold in all these kind of PGA Tour entitlements from from, you know, the last few decades, but I think overall like this is the massive step forward that we've been looking for for the last decade. I keep finding myself a little shocked that there just doesn't seem to be a ton of detractors from from most of these decisions. Right and and we can get to when the rubber meets the road. We'll see if that actually becomes the case and if everybody's as happy as they seem now, but it's the same thing with the with the track one track two is like, you know, it's it's basically the same amount the same amount of events playing for more money. We've seemed to have listened to kind of all. All the stakeholders and like everybody seems to be walking away a winner here. And with this instance, it's like, okay, all the fans seem to want match play. They all want steaks. They all want like real gravity towards the end of the season. But at the same time we got to reward a season-long champion. So we'll do that at the championship, you know, the series finale or whatever they're calling that like championship event. And then we'll have a basically a separate thing to kind of satisfy, you know, the fans after that. So it even that feels like kind of an all-side. When and it's just a it's mind-blowing after years and years of just like, oh no, we can't have that like you guys wouldn't even understand why we can't do that. And maybe some of that stuff I you know, let's be glib like some of that stuff the last five years probably needed to happen in order to get to where we are and to force things to break and to force things to you know, to be okay with these changes, but man now that we're okay with those changes. It seems like everybody's pretty fucking happy about it. I don't know. It's seems like maybe we could have skipped some heartburn and just gone right to this. But alas we got here eventually Sally. Yeah, it it's not like I wouldn't say the format is is perfect. I know we've we've been a part of many many many. How did we fix the FedEx cup finals playoffs? Whatever you want to call it episodes. I still encourage people to email Neil at no leg up calm with all of your ideas there. He reads through all of me responds to all of them and he greatly appreciates that. Can I pause out? Just super quick is if we had to have 19 different iterations of the Fed, maybe that was not a good system. I was going to say, you know, and I think that's not a lot of detractors props to roll out for being like, okay. Well, no, no, we're not going to try to fix this. We're going to blow it up because it's also not playoffs anymore. It's postseason is funny because it actually is now a playoff of some kind. But I think it it the one there's not many detractors because it had gotten so bad. It was just like legitimately. I don't know. I don't know if you could have crowned it in a worse way. I don't think you could have brought the season legitimately to a close in a less emphatic way than they're currently doing and that is but that's coming from somebody that actually like the starting strokes much better than how they're currently doing it as I've said I'm sorry I'm sorry much better yeah much better or the old way they were doing it pre starting strokes all of it better than just like 30 man free for all the winner of the tour championship is the pediatric awful so you know how silly that's gonna seem 10 years to say even this year and next year the next 18 months or 13 months you know operate under that that now outdated you know mechanism it's hilarious so yeah there's issue a lot of stakeholders a lot of things to consider there's TV there's players there's money distribution there's venues there's all kinds of things here so I was not expecting things to go exactly the way we had listed it out or the idea that we had had of you know just basically doing a sudden death final in some way maybe some some buys a double buy for the top seeds kind of given people people remember I rolled out a somewhat finalized version of what I'd like to see but it was like the top eight seeds are the top four seeds are gonna get double buys the next four seeds are gonna get single buys the next eight guys of those 16 will you know kind of start at the back of the pack and have to play a bunch of match play to identify a champion this way it is I mean one through 32 make it into the match play and granted there's you know the first you know the 32 seed is gonna get in the bracket with the one seed I assume and probably you know 15 and 16 or 16 and 17 however that shakes out would be in that one but otherwise there's not a ton of advantage to being one versus 32 like we are gonna kind of roll it out and kind of figure it out from there which you know are we trying to exactly mimic playoff settings from other sports maybe not but like NFL you get a buy if you're the number one seed Major League Baseball if you're the top two seeds you get a bypass that first round things like that and golf is not gonna go they're not going that way and it is they seem a little caught between this you know the idea of we need to produce a lot of matches we cannot have just a few a little amount of golf out there that's a very clear takeaway from this like there's gonna kind of if I had a concern it's like there's gonna be kind of a lot of pointless golf going on because once once you've lost in the championship series I don't picture myself caring whether you finish third or 16th I could be wrong on that but that's clearly a a something that they're having to work around and go for I think it would be cooler if it was a harsher sudden death but you know how these match play events work like it just kind of does invert where most of the excitement is like I would expect most of it to be in the early rounds which doesn't line up great for weekend viewing which is what the PGA Tour prides themselves on but it is it's match play man and it's gonna be head to head and we talked about this a bunch with Max here at the end but I think it's gonna take some time for it to like feel important important from the end you know for the players and to make it feel like the exclamation point on the end of the season but man just such a better way to conclude it and I hope the players seriously buy into this bring energy for it I like that they're make you have to play the championship series finale like you can't skip that one if you're automatically qualified for it call it the Rory rule if you want you're playing that final event if you want to play in the match play part too but yeah it's it's match play it's it's it's what we've been asking for even if it's not perfect I'm supporting it I'm excited about where this is headed these people have thought believe it or not have thought about it more than I have and have considered a lot more things than I have and I'm willing to willing to see where this goes from here Sully's Sully's he's willing to look past the fact that we're not getting the mule drive yeah exactly the mule drive might be later in the fall we'll see I like a couple different things I actually don't mind the I don't mind the one doesn't have a buy one doesn't have an advantage stuff because I think that's kind of what I was saying earlier is like the the championship series finale is where you lock that in and I think again we'll hear Max talk about it but the whole the problem with the FedEx Cup was that it was just a bonus distribution system it was a a you know a chance to give like backload these guys earnings for the year and we just have a shitload of money that these guys we need to get out to these guys and we need to try to make it interesting and it's never going to be interesting when the thing you're rooting for is who makes more money right and so if they can use that championship series finale as a way to be like here's the big ass reward for your whole financial reward for your whole season I think that's a very natural way to do that right and like Scott's Scotty who has finished in the top five 12 times or 13 times whatever this year like yeah he does have an advantage because he's number one in the points right it's like that that that stuff all feels very natural to me and then it's like once you get into the pool play no it's not like the NFL it's not like baseball it's like the World Cup which is kind of a funny thing I was thinking about this morning where I'm like they're trying to push all this stuff through as like the most successful World Cup in American history is kind of like is all good like that had to that's the the kind of break you can't like plan for like I think they had to be saying in those meetings be like did you watch that fucking England Mexico game last night that was great you know I've that really made me laugh that it's it's they had that break even the third place game was great right you know that's yeah to say I would support like making the the consolation matches trick shots of some kind half half sets like make it weird make it you know you can take a club out of somebody's bag like make that part weird I'd be in support of that but yeah I mean I don't think anybody's trying to I don't think they're trying to strangle the like oh we need this seven seventh place 11th place match to be like life and death I think they know nobody cares I think that's just more for the people that are on site it's the show how the other holes are playing oh get a load of this pin location when they get to four like I think it's stuff like that rather than trying to make that like some huge it's additive yeah yeah it's not it's not taking like yeah it's not taking anything like solid you said earlier like like I wish it was a harsher sudden death thing I think it still is harsh right like the guys that's almost more of a penalty for for Scotty like wait you're telling me I have to go play this seventh place game yeah I just yeah I again I hope that part's not lost for all the like they need buys this is unfair but it's like no that's settled in the in the stroke play thing and that's where again it's like I if I was a player and I was like man I'm really trying to to really pay off like my whole year it's like you're gonna do it that first week of the postseason and then the match play thing is like a totally different event to me is is how it seems and I think people I think people get up for it I think you get good venues you get good you know it's kind of a it would be a big deal to make it in like I think it's like I think there's a lot a lot here that's gonna work itself out in a good way I agree I think where I was kind of going with that is is it's a way of almost guaranteeing your Rory's your Scotty's your top finishers get farther in the bracket and it's a little bit anticipatory right and and and look I get why it didn't shake out that way maybe they go that way in the future I get all that where I I think this this this next part is is like the capital whatever letter like the number one most important thing is we've seen pool play at the WGC Dell match play we've seen the PGA Tours television broadcast partners try to cover match play golf and I'm talking about one of them in particular of the two that has has struggled with this at times when pool play is on especially that Friday I have no fucking clue what is going on I don't know what match is important I don't know who is in whose group and I think this is extremely important that every time you show a match on TV you are showing if code if you can show the example I mock this up like how important I think this is of if you are seeing a match with a match with Scotty's Scotty Scheffler playing Robert McIntyre Cody if you if you don't mind flashing it up there like show me who else is in the group and show me how many points the other guys have and what the status of that matches like you can see this graphic shown right here Scotty has six points McIntyre has three in the other match it's Brian Harmon against Ben Griffin Harmon's got three Ben Griffin's got zero I can look at this graphic and say like man if Harmon just holds on he's going to be one of the two and Scotty is going to be the other one to advance otherwise like it is it's a mess it's an absolute mess and I get why they don't like to show a lot of this stuff because there's so much stuff on delay and it's hard you know you know you don't want to give scores away before you've shown the shots on TV but like man that's going to be super important to get right because there's going to be a lot of golf going on and it's going to be very hard to keep track of all that stuff plus all the commercials you kind of fit into all this that is why I'm not a fan of pool play because it it's just inconclusive it the part about that match play that is so appealing it is it's very from the jump like from the early part of the round it's very easy to understand exactly what's at stake on each hole and it's not a pacing mechanism it's like dude you make this putt you tie the hole if you miss it you lose it like that's awesome that is what your selling point is and I got to I got to be able to the viewers got to be able to understand how this all fits into the context of the pool player or else that's just going to be a way it's going to be worse than Steve stands on the whiteboard trying to calculate the FedExCup points at the end of the year and I would lead the show with that because I honestly think that is like the most important thing maybe of of of all this is like you guys they get they need to be on their television partners to present this right because we we have very good evidence that they will not do this on their own what if they sell each each pool to to one of the proud partners so this is the coca-cola pool this is that's over there on true tv bet on that that will happen this is the southern company region yeah uh half the matches you know there's 32 players instead of 64 maybe that maybe that helps a little bit um but yeah i think that's it's very valid uh valid concern but once we get to the second week hopefully it becomes a little bit more just like did you win or did you lose um yeah definitely but i think that that early part is you know that yeah like i said it's just it's really really uh hard and look like we've seen our nfl's had a had a playoff bracket forever and it's it's been a long like college football has had a playoff bracket forever and it's been a long time and it's been a long time and it's had this for it's been like 12 years now like it's been a long time since since college football went to the playoff bracket they've changed it they've expanded it and by college football season like it's here and i would say our our closets are looking more and more like the roback website and here's one thing about robeck's college football thing one thing about robeck's collegiate game day collection they're not just slapping a logo on a stock polo every polo hoodie or quarter zip is custom designed for your school whether it's campus landmarks logos traditions school colors you name it robeck is tapping in to in a unique custom way the polos hoodies q-zips and more the game day collection it continues to grow the best part it's still that same fit and feel of everything else you already know about robeck best fabrics incredible versatility and already you already know it's incredibly comfortable in the wise words of jamis winston on saturdays we wear robeck so catch them before they sell out and your team potentially drops the ball at the end of the week catch me outside in robeck exactly uh we should say a few words about the venues potential venues i know uh josh carpenter had uh had some some specifics named i'm trying to remember off the top of my head i think he said sleepy hollow lacc and interlocking interlocking uh as potential venue which is always a funny one right when it's like sources are like well can we well we did have it well we had a call well we had a site well no they're gonna get mad if we say that it's always just funny which ones actually get named who knows what it'll be but those were the three that he he reported uh the big thing with this uh that i think has been kind of part of this conversation as long as we've been talking about it but if you go to match play if you go to something like this you're not trying to stand up a 72 hole stroke play event it seemingly can be uh a golf course that has a smaller footprint doesn't need to be 7800 yards it's just beat the guy that's across from you uh which is obviously brings in a lot more potential venues um and then i think we'll change the fan experience right if there's not t times from 8 a.m until 2 p.m or whatever like uh it'll be a little bit of a different probably smaller footprint maybe more intimate maybe more close up i don't i don't really know how that's gonna work but i'm curious if you guys have any thoughts uh venues fan experience uh some of that stuff i think it's uh i think of walker cup as like you know some of my favorite events i've been to that said i think the walker cup at at uh cypress was 2 000 fans i think the one at la hinch will be you know probably six to eight thousand fans and so like how do they how do they juggle that are there are there going to be ropes or they're not going to be ropes because i think unless you have the the fans like right up there up close and personal there's a lot less fans you need you need that energy and that intimacy i think um you can feel empty fast yeah and yeah you know empty and just kind of soulless um going back to i think lacc is a pretty interesting thing they didn't exactly roll out the the uh the welcome mat uh to you know walker cup fans or u.s open fans and i can't imagine that the the unwashed masses coming in for a pga tour event uh would be would be welcome with open arms plus their whole packs the you know pr problem that they've got out there as well it is so that's certainly an interesting first west coast venue i think it's so funny that we've gone uh in the last whatever eight nine ten years from uh live under par this is all about the fan experience just like we're going to the most private fucking place you have ever heard of we're gonna have 4 000 people there uh who knows how it'll shake out i've had some good stuff about like man it's a chance to go to places that people don't get to see a lot you know it's a uh it's a tv product yeah and make it a full-on tv product yeah and and when you're setting it up for either you know a round of 16 or or 32 match play matches the considerations are decidedly different like decidedly different you can do all sorts of more drivable holes if you want i mean you could you could i was thinking about this earlier you you get so creative like you can turn like par fours that are not proper length for pj tour players turn them into par threes so you guys are playing this hole from 180 yards to a diabolical front right pin and instead of like playing this as a 380 par four that's going to be silly like why don't we do that you can do so many creative things you don't have to worry about what the you know play into a certain par number you don't have to worry about guys shooting 20 under anything like that uh you could play i mean you could play a whole you know depending on how the routing works you could play the whole once as a par three you can come back and play it a different way as a par four like you could do very creative stuff that i think um isn't usually in the spirit of the pga tour but like hey we got this far throwing out some ideas like might as well uh might as well keep throwing these out there and keep keep pushing the envelope with this dude i think the uh that's where i get back to la cc as far as like the actual golf product that's a that's a killer match play venue with all sorts of half holes and different ways to set it up you could set it up you know part three or part four on some holes so um you know interlocking i think that like like that's another one that you know you're like oh my gosh like great market up there um it sounds like the sampo is like i keep throwing out chambers bay it sounds like the sampo is kind of seattle's our market and we're going to either you know so holly or chambers so chambers is off the table for now and then sleepy hollow you know never been i'm in the area uh swing hit me up uh i i was thinking about it um max gets into this a little bit more as well but i have always been in of the mind that like man tpc sawgrass works because you go there every year you have all these memories from number four and number 17 and 16 and 18 and i'm like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna be and all these different holes. And I actually am kind of coming around to the Tour Championship being a chance to flex different venues as more of a positive. Unless you can go to something that's as good as TPC Sawgrass every year, which TPC Sawgrass, the reason it works is because it's a really, really good golf course. It's very memorable. Because we go to Eastlake every year. We see it at Eastlake every year. And I'm like, dude, I've been there 10 times, and I don't remember anything about that place. I know they did the Renault, and it's gotten better, but it's still just a really hard place to grab onto. Whereas it feels like the Tour has worked so hard to be like, we need a major. We need a big property. We need something that gets golf fans really excited. And obviously, this is not going to take the place of any of the majors or anything like that. But it is a zag in a way that I would be pumped at the beginning of the year to talk about like, oh, shit, the Tour Championship is going to Interlochen and LACC. Like, that's awesome. The same way we would be like, the U.S. Open is going to Oakmont or Shinnecock or whatever. You know, it's a different way to get in that conversation, but it's like kind of the same conversation. Well, it's pretty clear. Like, Rolap is rolling with the NFL news cycle strategy of like, you know, just sprinkling information. Like, having that be a part of the conversation anyway. Yeah, look forward to, you know, in a couple months, we're going to announce the Tour Championship venues for next year. And, you know, that'll come out, you know, maybe 18 months in advance, 16 months in advance of that. And, like, you can look forward to that. Or maybe they have, maybe they do a USGA style and start rolling those out several years in advance. And we can do that thing where we look at the future Walker Cup venues and say, oh, my God, look at where they're going in this one. Like, man, it's still a lot of words. It's still, we haven't seen a lot of this come to fruition. I mean, we haven't seen any of the Challenger Championship match, but we haven't seen any of this. It's just Rolap announcing these things. But it's pretty darn easy to get excited about someone that's been able to, to put this much change into process this quickly, can speak so clearly on it, has clearly, I wouldn't say, from what I can gather, garner the respect of the players, the trust of the players to figure out the answers to the tough questions when he doesn't have an answer to a question in a press conference. He's very clear about that. He does not over-promise on a lot of, I mean, again, that's why I get kind of hyped. It's like, dude, the things he does say out loud turn out to be true. And the things he doesn't are like, we're going to come back. We're going to come back. We're going to come back on that. And here's when, here's when we're going to come back on, you know, stuff on eligibility and things like that. It's just, he reeks of competence and at the same time, willingness to shake it up. I mean, he came from a massive, massive, massive sporting brand and was not brought, you know, say what you want about Monaghan. Like Monaghan was not brought in to shake things up at the PGA Tour. Rolap was. And he's doing it, and it's just very easy to get excited about what is possible because we're not hit every time we bring up an idea of like, you don't understand it, contracts, this is how we do it, we've thought about it, you haven't. And now it just legitimately seems like they're putting things into place that fans are saying. And that's a North Star for them. Max talks about that as well. The North Star seems to be the fans for once. I think what's, again, thinking about it this morning, just as he's rolling through this, and I was like, man, I'm really excited about watching postseason golf for the first time in a very, very long time, maybe ever. And it's just such a stark difference from the last couple years where not to pretend like we're exempt from this in any stretch, but this world where golf media has kind of had to pretend to be MBAs or lawyers or geopolitics experts. And it's just like, you know how long it's been since it's just been like, oh, what if this? This player played this player. Do you guys think that would be fun? And it feels like we're kind of back to having some of those conversations. And I know maybe they're trying to sweep some of the other stuff under the rug, like front-running the charity stuff I thought was super interesting today. That almost felt like a kind of next battleground. Staying super loudly. Nothing's changing on charities. Like, well, I wasn't thinking about that until you said it. But okay. That's one thing. Who knows what happens with sponsors? Who knows what happens with, like, you know, eligibility? And all that stuff is still kind of remains to be seen. But man, it feels like they're getting the fan stuff right. And it feels like for the first time in five fucking years, maybe fans can just kind of focus on, like, the golf rather than, like, you know, it almost reminds me, like, when people start talking about movies and instead of it's just like, did you like the movie or did you not? And people get way into this, like, well, how it performed at the box office. It's like, it's not your money, man. Who gives a shit about how it performed? Who cares how the business side of this stuff works? Can we just get back to, like, talking a little bit about is the golf fun to watch or is it not? And who do you think is going to win? And it just seems like there's a massive step in that direction. I think the excitement is, like, is in the change, right? Is in the unknown. Like, they don't have to nail every single one of these things either. They're going to get stuff wrong along the way. But progress and new stuff is fun inherently. And I think that, I mean, shit, I'm already thinking about, you know, like, would Pasatiempo ever be a fit? Right? Probably not. It's pretty remote in Santa Cruz there. But what if it was? Like, that would be, you know, or like, you know, people throw out band in dunes all the time. It's like, you know, like, all right, grow up, Peter Pan. But you know what? If there's only 16 guys, like, maybe you could do that, you know? So I think the, that and then I do think that I'm really curious to see, like, we ran through that whole schedule exercise for 2028. And with the Olympics in there, in LA, I don't know how that's going to work. Like with LACC on the back end of the Olympics, with these guys playing like five out of six weeks, maybe in kind of that July, August timeframe, that's a pretty jammed up schedule. So I'll be really curious to see, you know, as we matriculate from this idea phase to the details, probably coming out next year on the players, you know, just exactly how this looks, you know, into 2028. But. But isn't it, it is interesting to see, but isn't it weird to sit here and just be like, well, these people that are doing it, they're decidedly not clowns. Like I'm kind of like optimistic. I'm like, I think they'll figure that out. Like, I think they're like what the, what they will, the conclusion they will reach, I think will be like, that's pretty reasonable, not perfect, but like that's pretty reasonable versus like the previous regime. If they try to do this, I'd be like, I, I will believe it when I see it. I'm sorry. I will. And I don't think it will happen. And then I think the hope then too is like, all right, if, if let's say, it's sleepy hollow and interlock and an LACC, if, if, if it goes well, they've, they've proven the model. Then it's all right, cool. Let's go to, let's go to Seminole or let's go to Cypress. Let's go to Chicago golf club. And, and, you know, they'll open. I think they kind of got out over their skis and mentioning some of those off the bat, but you know, it's, it's. Those places love doing TC is really disrupting. They love just like unproven concepts. Let us, let us just open the kimono here. being used as a carrot yeah exactly so i think yeah it'll take a couple years to to figure it out but i you know if it's positive then i'm sure they'll get rewarded for it is is there we're very kumbaya here anything solid besides the group you know some concerns on the group stuff and how it'll be portrayed anything else what do you guys not like about this anything else that that kind of you're bumping on uh let me talk about this some of max it's i promise it's coming up here soon uh we keep teasing i know but like i'm not like positive this won't feel both bolted on in year one you know i i don't think it's going to be super easy for this to feel like the granddaddy of them all uh from the jump i think a lot of that's going to come down to like how serious the the players sell it and how excited they are about it and kind of what kind of atmosphere they're able to create around these events and and and whatnot but it's um it's it's not that's not a guarantee for me i think sitting here as of right now at least that's gonna be something you have to earn over years pc uh you mentioned it earlier this it's not even really related to the the playoffs or the postseason it's more just them kind of front running the charity thing which you know i think lucas glover's been pretty vocal about hey my my mandate is the new pack chair is to make sure that that stays top of mind everything's been money for the players money for the players and and they've gone to a for-profit model but i think between that fincham announcement yesterday and just some of this stuff today it seems like maybe they're they're going to more of a centralized model on the charity stuff and they're going to give a smaller sliver of the pie a much smaller sliver of the pie based on what i've heard from various host organizations like their fee is going way way up to be a pga tour event and you know they're giving a smaller sliver of the total cut to these charities but maybe making a more focused concentrated effort you know on you know like just more of a targeted thing so uh i think that'll be a really interesting thing as we as we move along here over the next 18 months the only thing i was gonna add i mean i think it's natural every time you talk about match play is like well what if you get a stinky what if you get a stinky final what if you get x player versus y player and nobody wants to watch it and i think that is a very inherent risk granted it it's the top 30 two players in the world like hopefully it should be uh it should be good the flip side of that coin i i feel like is i was again thinking about it today especially when they rolled out the uh the hype video i mean which was sick how many how many pj tour events did steven ames play in hundreds hundreds what do people know steven ames for right it's yeah that's it and i no offense to him but like that's the power of the power of magic grand the power of magic of tiger woods but it's the power of match play as well and yes i think i think i think plenty of offense to steven ames i don't think anybody likes the i think that there's a uh i think there's a power of match play to like we we say this with scotty where it's like well scotty didn't get interesting until he won 10 times on the pj tour that's really hard to do slash kind of impossible i think in match play you can kind of microwave the personality and the gravitas of some of these guys a little bit faster you see that at the rider cup where it's like here's this here's this no-name person that you've you know whoever thomas peters right is just like holy shit that guy is bawling out and now i'm going to think about him differently forever right and it's like i i bet i could do this to you i think you were there jason day versus who it it at dove mountain you i bet the match that do we saw i thought you're talking about president's cup no like that when that happened no no yeah when that happened everybody remembered that like that that was a you know tiger had the huge comeback uh in the against who you probably remember that one on the wednesday of the old match at jb holmes exactly right but it's catnip for casuals like it's it is mano a mano it's the red team playing the blue team right and and it's very easy to digest and understand and i think it's yeah it's like number maybe not one and two i mean scotty and rory are kind of in a world of their own but number seven is so much closer to number 32 than it's ever going to seem and to hold 32 to just like well you know i'm going to win this match i'm going to win this match i'm going to win this match i'm going to win this match you gotta win five times before anybody gives a shit is it's just really hard and it's i think it kind of it kind of in a weird way dovetails with what they're doing with the challenger track as well where it's like if you have all these on ramps to get these guys into the ecosystem get them on this challenger track and kind of get them into a chance where they can become a i just think they can maybe not superstar but i think they can become recognizable names much much faster through the challenger stuff through match play through all these these different things yeah yeah uh i'm we'll we'll find out man i i again i think that part of the reason why wgc match play went away or wasn't working in a lot of ways was like it was just a match play tournament and it was not it was not this this is for a trophy yeah yes this is different and i'd liked that tournament it was good variety but uh this is decidedly different from that uh couple other um just smaller things that roll up commented on uh and some might maybe not even smaller things that roll up commented on in some way today uh he did of course get a question about live players returning here i believe this is gabby herzik from the athletic asking this question uh and here is his answer uh question answer here in full live players returning i guess what is your personal opinion on them coming back just as a leader as someone with a conception of you know the sports entertainment space and the need for stars to come back and play on the pga tour and how does that compare to what you're hearing from players and stakeholders in the tour well i i you asked about my personal feelings and that's one thing but um in this job you have to take into account everybody's feelings and all stakeholders and i think what i would say on that is i think fans are clear where you know they want to see the best golfers competing week in and week out our competitive model that we've been working on is an attempt to get closer to that standard i would also say three things when it comes to live players or anyone else who wants to be on the pga tour one the pga tour is built on meritocracy um every player whether they're already here or they're trying to be here they're going to earn a place based on their performance and on their success that's core principle of the sport and certainly is of the pga tour two the tour is a membership organization and has rules those rules exist for lots of reasons for fair competitive reasons they exist so we can actually create the tour as you know it rules matter and three rules only matter if they're enforced so accountability and discipline are essential to any organization and uh and certainly for the integrity of the tour and for the game especially in a game that prides itself on rules and integrity so those are guiding principles for us rules matter again i've been very public that i want to do what's best for the pga tour and that's still my guiding principle and um whatever happens those will be the guiding principles i did absolutely adore the timing of a question very shortly after that about rory not meeting the minimum 15 numbers well that rule we're gonna we're gonna look into that one don't worry about what your brother's doing okay well the point is you did not finish cleaning up your room and we're gonna drink i'm gonna talk to him don't worry about that but just we're gonna focus on the issue at hand here johnny johnny rumbo don't don't get any ideas yeah don't get any ideas uh no good stuff i i love it i love it it's a good answer man it's not gonna be it's not as simple as they're gonna they're gonna be of great value to the tour let them right back in like that is decided statement of that is not gonna be that simple they broke rules uh that everyone else in the organization that is currently playing on the pga tour adhered to and followed they didn't they've paid their their penance uh their their penalties and are back on the pj toward brooks and and and read of that but uh it will not be uh a wave back through the door thing for bryson and rom and any of those any of those guys it was pretty clear answer so i didn't catch it what was was was club pro guy there asking him there i don't know who there was a gentleman with a very deep voice that sounded like a little bit of a club pro guy voice there asking some pointed questions asked a good good question right off the jump uh that was that was yeah that was he got hit with that one hard uh he's asked do you believe good good took enough accountability after the whole callaway debacle uh roll have said i think initially no i think what we saw was concerning and it's clearly not aligned with pj tour values we take it very seriously i think their initial response was disappointing it was a bit defensive and late but i think the responses are getting better i think we've seen some things this morning we've had conversations with them so we'll continue to monitor and work with them going forward but no we were disappointed with what we saw oh god tc where do you stand where do you stand on this it's hard to feel kind of existential for good good callaway put out a statement at like 2 a.m last night yeah man i i don't know there's a there's a line in uh this movie bottle rocket where somebody's asking him like do you want to do you want to go water skiing or do you want to go lay out in in the sun he's like not only do i not want to answer that question i don't want to answer another question like that for the rest of my life that's kind of how i feel i'm starting to feel about just some of the things going on and let's just get back to who's who's the one seed and who's the 32 seed who's playing in the first round of this match play because i've just yeah i just can't can't have too much of a take on on some of this stuff sally i think the the best thing is like for the first time i feel like all the live stuff was maybe worth it like i think the first time i feel like all the live stuff was maybe worth it where like it led us it led where like it led us it led us to to a better place that it's like it's like you know crawling through that that you know andy dufresne yeah shawshank redemption thing like oh my god like there was a reason for all this stuff you know it yeah i see exactly where you're coming from i think i believe we even have it you uh you've theorized on this back in the very very very early stages of live if we have it this is supposed to be for internal use only no this is publicly out there you guys were so wrong about everything you guys don't know what you're talking about uh for those that are not watching live on youtube dj tweeted on february 3rd 2022 bryson p kokrak and a number of pissed off olds don't sleep on the fact this thing could both consolidate many of the capital worst people you know and fail to gain traction while lighting a billion and a half dollars on fire which would be objectively sick six billion dollars four and a half billion dollars tc replied saying and possibly forced the pga tour to give a about their product in the process nuke the wgc's into the sun in favor of something decent feels like a win-win uh yeah fly the banner on that i'm pretty sure man we rocked them we rocked them i i do i do think uh the the one comment from morgan84x i think we have got a little addicted myself guilty as well of like the news-ish part of it and like becoming a little detached from the golf at times and that's because the golf hasn't been very good i know the hard part is going to be like getting back into just the the birdies and bogeys of it all uh with full uh you know investment in it um and the pediatric we're not getting complacent again just because the competitor is going away i mean it's uh and i don't just like mean financially i just mean like continue to do you create an entertaining product that people want to watch and want to associate with so um because that was definitely lacking prior prior to live and they're not out of the woods on that one yet and i think rollout has said pretty much the same so it's going to come up roll up's gonna do this stuff and he's gonna tackle the president's cup and he's gonna tackle pace of play and sawgrass equipment issues u.s rider cup team be the captain of that one too please it's gonna come down i mean it's gonna come down to details i mean you can win the press conference uh you know you could do all that but i mean different that's one thing the difference between good and great golf usually comes down to the details as well having everything dialed and more and more guys on tour that means how they sleep we've partnered with lagoon because the idea is simple if you custom fit your clubs why wouldn't you custom fit your pillow go to lagoonsleep.com nlu you can take a two minute quiz they match you to the exact pillow that fits how you sleep each pill is adjustable i took a little bit out of my otter pillow uh when i got it you can dial it in exactly how you want it stop spending the first five holes trying to loosen up if you're serious about getting some marginal gains start with the eight hours before your round lagoon sleep dot com slash nlu code nlu for 15 off you will never go backwards in pillow quality ever again if you invest in a solid pillow that's it lagoon sleep dot com slash nlu code nlu get you 15 off now i'm going to give you a little bit more information about lagoon sleep dot com slash nlu code nlu get you 15% off now i'm going to give you a little bit more information about lagoon sleep dot com slash nlu code nlu get you 15% off now i'm going to get you 15% off now i'm going to give you a little bit more information about lagoon sleep dot com slash lagoon sleep dot com slash nlu code nlu get you 15% off nest members check you got a custom lagoon code in your profile for additional savings there as well so lagooners i uh i travel with my own lagoon pillow now travel pillow can't risk it can't risk it otherwise so solid idea what about if uh just thinking about meritocracy and such what what do you think let's say they put on an event and they said all right this is this is the live uh redemption tour the live uh sure uh recidivism tour whatever uh you and you know however many guys can tee it up and only the hunger games yeah and only and only four of you guys are getting are getting a car back and the rest of you can never ever tee it up in a pga it sounds like one of those nuclear golf poles like 50 million if you make the hole in one or you die if you don't make it sick all right good content for bryson's channel too it sounds very youtubey tc it does it can be a collab yeah do you guys make anything of bryson's instagram post of like he said it's been a good run uh or it was a good run cryptically i've missed that i regret bringing it up i shouldn't have said anything he's probably got a good like he's probably got a new running shoe coming out with with uh reebok or something next week you're probably right yeah it's like tony p's uh yeah never mind the hog reveal didn't go exactly as they were expecting it was like a travis matthew drop or something like that but uh as mentioned everybody hates tony p now i know i know know i know you know it's tc you live long enough to become the villain that's your boy tc don't tony t and good good should collab it's just the whole thing god it just feels so just so not not even predictable just like you just see the same cycle like over and now there's going to be some youtube video like let's talk we need to talk about what happened it's just like it's just all awful is it feeling a little performative at this point like from people online i don't know for sure yeah the whole cycle is just like the entire internet is performing yeah i know but i but it's both like equal it's performative but also like it was that bad it was bad but yeah just such a shit sandwich of like the stupidest thing that could have possibly happened from every angle even roll that you could have made stupidest thing that could we talked about at a pj tour press conference it's all so fucking stupid and it just like you can't wrap your head around how many of this is real life what's what what's tony p's thing all right wrap it up what was the no what is it uh masculinity i forgot that i gotta get offline all right we have an interview with max hoba uh chatting about all this stuff uh he's uh he shines a ton of light on a lot of it we greatly appreciate uh max joining us for this so uh stick around for this and uh thank you for tuning into our little live show i'll be back on the back end as well to bid you guys to do but uh here's max homa talking about the changes max match play coming to the pga tour conclusion what's your general reaction to this where where are you at uh when you heard the news or i'm sure you've been up to speed in the process as it's happening but uh are you stoked do you hate it do you love it what's up so i definitely am in the love it camp there's a lot of it that i totally get you know we don't why why people like immediately weren't i guess jazz some guys you know do love the idea but match play we don't play match play all year it's kind of like we joke about it in college golf like it's season ends with like a match play event and it's like you just play stroke play all season so how are we determining it based off of that however you know i'm home right now watching the playoffs and i totally get that there's so much of that bmw that was inconsequential and it was a very fun golf tournament but the the main you know five sports and especially you see a sport like football every single week it's like do or die and that that is the closest thing we can get to that so i think that there's so much uh more for the fan to want to see us you know there's there's just way more volatility i don't know i just think it's going to to be you're going to see a lot like demise and excitement all like immediately kind of like a rider cup of presidents cup where every day you're going to have like a highlight reel of somebody doing something awesome to win a match or whatever so i think it's it's the it's the best way to make it exciting and at some point we you gotta we've been told by the fans that that's what they want and at some point you gotta pull that ripcord and do it because i think it will be awesome and as you know everything takes a minute to get used to but i think once people get used to it it's going to be sweet does it feel like best of both worlds too having the kind of that stroke play regular season finale and then you've got like the match play and having it over a two-week stretch makes it feel like it's got its own critical mass yes and i love the uh the idea that like the first bit of it is gonna be you know like a a group play type thing where it's not like you don't lose one match and it's just all sorry you're out of here you know so i like that i i also like just the idea that the regular season will have its own like championship and that most of like a lot of the accolades for the season will still like end at the end of that season because i've always been a big fan of listen like a season of excellence should not just whittle down to even how it works you know or has been working for so long with just like and at the tour championship that is your slot for the season you know it's like well i've had great years and people have great years and they'll finish not it's like well that's you know you finished 16th this year i remember rom did it one year and i was just like that he had one of the best years you know and he fell and the one that always hits home for me is will zalatoris uh the year he hurt his back uh and had to pull out of the bmw was like at the very worst that season basically especially with the stagger was going to finish like fourth and he gets hurt has to pull out and he gets 30th place he gets 30 place money like bonus money and and 30th place on his like card it's like no you had one of the best seasons of everybody and there was nothing he like gained really from that regular season you know i was talking to somebody at the tour once but i was like imagine you just like you worked so hard all year and you did a really good job like you were like employee of the month a couple months and you're awesome and on the last week of work you went on your you know pto you went on your vacation and that week your boss came and said hey everybody who's here you get your bonus bonus it was just like she's not there couldn't get it you know had one of the best years of anybody there so it just felt like you weren't getting i guess enough credit for the regular season as far as like you know like the again it's called a bonus it's like you he deserved a bonus he did amazing and then it all whittled down so much to like one golf front for your season's accolades now i like that for your championships and whatnot i think that's exciting for the fan it's exciting for us it but there should be something like to credit someone like a scotty who every single year has been winning the points list like he should get something but then it's like hey we can finally get away from the money stop talking about the money and go like golf for a trophy that we should be like excited about that opportunity to win and and that at some point you got to figure out a way to make the fedex cup trophy and the season-long trophy like the thing and that's been a hard thing for whatever reason to do and then the money gets talked about too much this feels like there's a separation and we can finally like focus on like who's going to win the thing not just who's going to get like paid out yeah plus hopefully at a dope venue too yes that that also would be yeah different like even just rotating yeah it just that just seems exciting as well so here's here's where i'm excited about this but i think it's going to be really really critical that the players are bought in and are there's something to like so the comp i'd make is baseball right there's 162 game season and then you get down there and it's like a five game series to start you know and it could yeah but that is these guys sucked at it for a while and you can just you can just buy it anyways but that is the baseball that matters right like if you're the dodgers you are going to structure your team to be like how can we set the advantage for that series that's the baseball that matters i think golf would have a long ways to go to clear that like i don't think year one it's going to be like this is the golf that matters we have the players championship we have the majors we have the season-long points race how do you how do you anticipate this not feeling bolted on and you know the energy around it being like this is we joke last night on the show was like we're talking about the player of the year conversation before the season finale like the player of the year should just be the winner of the like how do you you see what i'm getting at here how do we get this to where like this feels like not just a bolted on almost silly season championship at the end and yet at the same time like not take away what's happened from the regular season that's a push-pull i i'm a little concerned of well yeah i think we're always going to struggle to like fight that battle of you know winning a major yeah i don't think that will ever yeah nothing will be bigger than that and that's just i don't know that's just a weird part of our sport however i will say that just personally the the playoffs and especially you know getting to uh the finale has felt like a bit especially for me i never played it when it wasn't staggered and when it's not staggered i i know i've had one year where i did awesome it felt impossible to for me to actually win like i i was like eight back to start an event and so it just felt like a payday like how well can you play to make a bunch of money and and to me i've never played golf like directly for the money i really don't think about the money very much so it was kind of just odd and then as the fan i'm like i don't know why i would care if somebody was making more money you know like the only time in sports i really seem to care about that is you know when you have a you know baker throws it to mike evans first thousandth reception he gets a bonus it's fun like that's like a fun thing too a thousand reception thousand yards whatever he got so he like something like that is the only time as a fan you're like kind of interested in that and then it goes by the wayside if you can again when you separate the two i do feel like over time again to your point it might it won't be probably year one but you're gonna if you can start getting the the player to be excited about how difficult it is to win but how attainable it is to win it then i think you start to like put stock as a player in that like reward i feel like it's been so ridiculously hard to win again like any sport it is but in football there's so many less teams there's such a more there's with the volatility in the like you can get a Giants team that goes in there the year the Patriots were undefeated and they kind of like just barely get into the playoffs get dumb hot and they win and it's it's exciting you know there's there's a lot to that with golf it's like again I had an incredible year and one year and I am so far behind the best player in the world to start the only week that then matters to win this thing and it's like I don't you know I don't have a chance like I mean I'm playing like I do but I just don't have a chance I like read something that year that you know he had lost Scotty at the time had lost uh by seven to like one person for the year maybe nobody like I don't even remember it was just something like before the week I'm reading I'm like good god I'm gonna have to play good and then to your point TC like with one golf course one singular golf course Eastlake especially when I played is absolutely favored uh because they had trees on the left side of like every hole it favored a guy who drew the ball off the tee and again I've played great there but yeah Zander and Rory have just killed it and that's great but I just don't see how that's when it is distilled to one solid week of stroke play that seems nuts uh and whatever so it just was hard for us to care now I will say I was someone who did very much care about trying to win that and everything I do think when you get there you are hyped to do it but it was just hard to really get that up for it now making Eastlake has always been I think the goal of the season we think that's amazing but isn't that's not exciting for a fan just to see like you know there's parts of it that are like oh it's cool he made it you know like that they that's great but they don't get how much that like would mean to us and I don't think that they should care about that so I think over time it because there's a separation because uh it will be difficult but you're going to see a lot of hopefully different types of winners you know someone who you know more or less obviously you have to have a great year to even win so like you're not gonna have some random person that's I think the misconception some of the players have had over the time and and I think the tour as well trying to almost like contrive yes the final and that drove me nuts because I was we were in a meeting a year or two ago and it was like well we just don't want to have someone just randomly win and I was like yo listen if you are in the top 30 or 32 or 28 at the time we were going through all these things that is not there's a year on this tour with how many events we play and and all that that that you can just like be a no-name person and make it even to East Lake and let alone win it the final so I was like I was so sick of hearing that and and and I think finally now you're gonna have the the fun of it and if it's not contrived I mean we had the Pacers Thunder finals was incredible and those are two markets that typically you know it's not like the NBA was stoked about that for ratings you know with the Knicks and now all of a sudden it's like crazy you need all of that you need somewhere it's like wow how did that guy win or wow like this is like a quote-unquote Cinderella like win or underdog against whatever for so long it's just been like we know ish who's gonna be there and it's just like out of those three guys who's gonna win that's just like not super exciting and there's fun to it when I when like the reason to watch yeah that's the reason yeah Pacers Thunder JT Poston versus Russ Henley yeah sure that means that over the course of that time people have their loads and loads of fans for those people but it's not like the you know Rory and Scotty are the lightning rods they just are like being on this fan subcommittee man when when when they are playing well and and at the top like Rory could win by 50 and people watch religiously and if there's another if I'm winning by 50 it's just the ratings like plummet and it's just it doesn't it's just these guys like have it and there's just been so much like let's make sure then that we get them the latest possible and that's cool but at some point you have to have you have to have that uh feeling for the fan to like anything I don't know like like yeah like I I don't know I I'm a Dodger fan this is probably a horrible thing but Dodgers Yankees when it did happen just out of like looking at the ratings and and from kind of the fanfare of it it was like wow this is like a miracle we get the two biggest markets in it and it was exciting because that wasn't you can't contrive that like it just had it worked itself out and then when you have other years where it's not that it's still exciting because I'm like oh now I'm watching a team I like don't typically see in here whatever I just think that that's important for the fan to be able to the randomness of it in a way and and and I do think then the players will start to really look at that as like hey now I can do that and then it's just gonna feel more attainable and then over time I don't know Theo Epstein said something years ago that just really hit home he said everything's a gimmick until it's not and he was talking about the pitch clock in baseball and I mean how quickly that just like became seamless and now you know we don't even think about it but it's like one of the best things that's probably changed the sport ever uh and it just happened and the players yeah well I'm definitely pro that but we could do that a different but just things like that I don't know it just we got you gotta it's again at some point you got to do it and the fans have been asking for and it's like that's all that really matters so let's just go do it and see and I think I think the players will enjoy it um at the end of the day what has been the sentiment amongst people you've talked to I mean it can't be a hundred percent are stoked about I know we interviewed Tony feed out like the day the batch play news came out he was like no I don't like that at all what is the the general sentiment amongst you know from top players to you know guys that like yourself that you're you're describing that you're it's opening up a chance for you you know our top players maybe not as as into it kind of take us to what the general conversation's been like well I just think in general like I said before about the college golf kind of finale it's like match play for us is so random and it's not perfectly really indicative of who should you know always move on that week you could have an off day um I mean if you look at golf just in general Wyndham last week plays just an incredible three rounds of golf you're thinking like he's gonna be probably when seven and six seven and six seven and six and then Sunday plays kind of whatever and would have lost and I think for us we're so used to if you play the best for a week you win and and it's all just tailored exactly to like who is the best player for a week so match play has always been an icky thing for everybody I mean one of the greatest records that I will never be broken and I in my opinion and that doesn't get enough credit is like Tiger winning six straight match play golf tournaments uh throughout the in the junior and to the amp like that's just so many matches to just like not lose so that's difficult now I do think that the structure of like the the uh pool play into um you know a little bit more just straight up like March Madness is better because it'll give you a chance to kind of like lose but still have a chance to move on uh so I do think that'll help but the players definitely like I just think anytime it gets brought up you're just kind of like you know match play is just such a coin toss but I think that's what sports are I think that that's like fun and again if if the season long uh race especially with the payout the bonus all those things a lot of that is getting handled before that this becomes like its own like just Championship golf tournament again something that I think over time players will be like so I now I want to win that like I that is that is how the playoffs in sports work so it's I think that'll land but it's not that people are just completely against it just man like how's this gonna work we've also really been worried about the whole TV thing because as you get later you have less matches on the course when people lose and there's still a match for you know third we saw it at the World Cup this year like the third place that was like it was yeah it was but it was that that's always you know especially in America I just think we're like why in the world are we doing this like who cares about this but I do think that as when you watch it you're like oh this is fun so I think there's been a bit of worry about that and that's what we've been told for so long is that like match plays tough because on a Sunday there's one match that matters and blah blah blah so I think people have been hesitant to it but again I am in the camp that I think it's going to be cool and I think we need to go see it before we just completely write it off and again when it comes down to it I'm going to keep saying it but the fans have been asking for this and like that is what matters so let's do that like why would we not do that we've kind of fallen flat quite a few times on how this is going to work uh and that's just been I'm I'm kind of tired of like dancing around it and uh so as much as the players might have some pushback I do think that I'm I'm pumped that the torch is like yeah we're gonna do it and way more people than not are like cool with it again but it's just there's of course some hesitancy to it is a humongous change for how you know it's it's different than any term we play all year so but so so are the playoffs so in in other sports so I I like that I do wish that we didn't call ours playoffs so early because it didn't feel like it but now that we kind of fully bought into that it's like then we need to make it where there's a lot of um there's a lot at stake each each day match play golf tournaments go like this they crescendo towards the very end match play flips that it is like the reason the first tee at the Ryder Cup is exciting is like it starts from the jump and if you don't have it for a while you do not have 72 holes to get going and that sound that can sound like uh nails on the chalkboard to a golfer that plays 72 all stroke play through tournaments with the fan that can be like okay let's go i will not miss the first three holes of a match i i can tune out for the first three holes on thursday like i do not need to see that i can catch up on it but for match play that flips that and that's where i think the thinking has been backwards of like what if we get a bad final it's like well what if you get a great wednesday like you know it could be exactly it's like that first weekend of march madness yes totally none of that like necessarily matters like if the 16 wins they don't like win the whole thing but it's fun i uh my coach mark blackburn said my first uh president's cup that he goes he loves these things for the player because at the end of one week of a team event you have a rolodex of highlights you can use the rest of your life um you can make a putt for par on the first match on thursday uh in some alternate shot format and you will remember that forever so when you have a big putt later in your career you're going to be like man what's your favorite shot you ever hit it's a guy i hit this bunker shot on thursday at the president's cup on 16 and i just like think about it all the time if that was a stroke play event that bunker shot's cool but i'm not pumping my chest and like high-fiving people you know and i think you know kind of transition that into like how the fans could see it that will be something that to your point sally about like the first tee like you better be up i was playing that match against victor when he chipped in on the first hole in rome i mean it was the loudest thing in the world and it set a tone like holy cow and i don't know you just don't if he chips that in on the first hole of a tournament it's cool man but it's not yeah it's just a it's just a birdie um so i just think that that is going to turn out to be so exciting for everybody again hopefully the players all continue to like that i think they will um it match play is fun because it is straight up do or die you can get a day where you shoot 800 and lose you can get a day where you shoot 205 and you can get a day where you shoot 200 and you can get a day where you shoot 100 and win but it's just about win your match figure out a way to win your match um and you know some things are going to change some ways you're going to play holes are going to change uh just like how in baseball over a 162 you play blackjack and and you play a five game series especially maybe you know even in the seven game series and it's like hey yamamoto's gonna pitch every day so we're just gonna have to figure out he's gonna have to figure that you know it's just stuff like that is is so fun and different you would never do that in the regular season you're not maybe you know but as much you're not gonna play the same exact game and i love that idea and i am excited for how it's gonna look and and translate to the fans on tv um i think that just stuff is i think there's just so much excitement to it and there's just gonna be highlight after highlight after highlight instead of hoping to god we have a close sunday where then the highlights pop out i think now people are gonna remember so much more of each year like oh do you remember in that you know 28 uh finale uh when so and so on thursday made that i mean when tiger comes back against jb holmes like that's the stuff like that would not that was such a fun day and it's just and it's something that i think like so many people remember and i mean most often it's not like jb and tiger duking it out on sunday it's because tiger was up by so many on everybody by the end of so many events now it's like hey we're gonna get this every single day a lot of these highlights and it's gonna really matter so i just i i i that's why i like it because i am a golf fan uh before a golfer and i've i i just want excitement and that just seems more exciting plus the venue like i think i think match play allows you to have these great venues and and you know over the edge setups that are gonna that are gonna dictate having more drama right instead of uh we like we can't put this pin on this slope because it's not fair yeah no it's it's two guys a hole yeah exactly my only this has been my only real hang up i'm all for the kind of they've been saying the signature venues and going to i don't even know how to put like exclusive places i've always been about rotating i've been a bit worried about the signature idea of it up until uh i guess a few days ago when adam scott was talking about it to us but so much of the playoffs in every sport and our i think revolves around the fan energy at the event and some of these you know kind of signature courses and that model will allow for less fanfare i guess at the event and i think it shows on tv personally like i just think that you know when it's 12 million degrees and no one's out there watching which i do not blame them i actually blame the people out there for because i don't know what they're doing you you can feel it you know you don't get the roars just kind of fall flat however i will say that there will be years where it's at a place maybe that doesn't have the infrastructure for tons of people but then there's going to be a year the next time it does and i do i actually think that that's kind of what adam was explaining and i'll say you know what that actually makes sense not every year is going to be you know east like where they're running behind tiger and rory and it just feels like there's every person in the world is at that golf tournament there's going to be other years you know the the course is the story um but i think having that as an option is really cool and that's when i think i'm gonna kind of be on the side of like over years i'm like why did we not do this forever and as you guys point out it's so fascinating because the course can be the story so often and when you have the same one every year and people are used to it that story kind of just gets played out so i think that will be cool and especially if we can go to some of the places i've been pitched i don't really know how that'd be how that would work but like most of us i haven't played most of those places so that would be so cool like places that when you're in that town you're like man i wonder if i can get over there and play some this week or whatever so i think that that will end up being good that has been my hang up because i want it to look cool on tv but i think that i think blending that with match play where it's just like do or die i think then it all kind of comes together but i'm with you for the setup stuff it's like gonna get a lot less people so overly concerned about it being perfect uh and again in golf that's just such an impossible game yeah fair it's just impossible but on our end that's what we want because we want to prove that over four days i played better than you did and if there's some funky whatever like that might deter from that in this case it's like each day i'm just playing a guy and i gotta beat that guy so i think it'll end up evening itself out in a good way max last question for you what uh just the process of this it feels like the tour is kind of gone from asking you know instead of finding reasons why something won't work it's like chasing an idea of like no like this this would be a great improvement to the product let's let's figure out a way to make it work has that been kind of the guiding light like and and you're someone who who hasn't been in the room for a lot of these meetings they're taking this to you like on the on the larger membership what have you felt like well um kind of the longer answer to this is i i know a lot of people who are in the room i respect and admire so much the time they've put into this and the models they've thrown out and how many have just immediately by the players just been like they get you know jumped on for it and i wish people would give it a second and like to breathe because i do think that a lot of the ideas have been shot down have been good but the time that they've put into this is really remarkable and i do think that they should be uh given a lot more credit for the work that they've put into this and i think that's kind of one of the things that i think is really important for for like just how much work's gone into um the kind of like storyboard how are we gonna make this work and what are we gonna change but i think it starts with again like the fans said they want x y and z like okay which what of that is feasible possible and what what part uh is just not going to be what they think it is and then it's okay but if like this is if x is what they want how how do we make that happen instead of like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like another story theo epstein told us about the whole baseball thing is they asked baseball fans like what is what are your favorite parts about baseball and they were like you know in play action so like diving catches whatever uh and um home runs and then stolen bases was one of them and they went through he's like all right we gotta how do we make bases uh stealing bases more of a thing because it just has become not it's not you know the the smartest thing to always try it's just so hard to do and they went through and they said you know what i'm gonna do i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna go through all these things and finally someone was just like what if we made the bases bigger so sick it's so sick but it's just the whole his whole point was he says we are going to figure out how to do this we're not just going to say ah we can't that's not how that works and i was like man that's just that's the answer to everything to your point tc it's like how like how do we do it so match play again like a thousand iterations i've not maybe not heard but thought of and heard so many of them and been like that's not gonna work that's gonna work but it just was like we're quote-unquote fair for the player in some way and where it is what the fan has been clamoring for so i just think that again i i'm i try my best when they bring an idea to recognize that this isn't just the idea they came up with 45 minutes ago it's difficult because so many players the first thing you do there's so many people i guess just immediately go like well yeah but that part won't work it's like yeah great but like can we keep the can we keep kind of like the nucleus of this and like how do how how can we make that work and i'm really pumped for the that the tour uh that the the players that the you know higher-ups have like kept that focus because at so many like turns of this they could have just been like you know what let's just do x instead and and it would have been so much easier but they kept kind of pushing for it like we're gonna make this thing with the nucleus be a part of it like how and i'm very proud of that for them because uh that is hard you know our pack meetings especially not the board ones that i haven't been in the pack wins are fun everyone's there's so many people and there's so many opinions and it gets distilled sometimes to just like the smallest part where you're just like pulling your hair out because you're like that part is we can change that like figure that out hang up on that and i did i did that last meeting about the signature course thing i was like very kind of just like how is this gonna work like this you know what if nobody comes out it's just but and then that's again why it's important to have these people who are uh one so much smarter than me but two have worked on this so much longer than i have or thought about it longer than i have where it's like yeah i know what you're saying but like look at it like this and it's like oh yeah you guys have spent so much more time on this than i have so um but it's tough you know our doors you know 220 equal people or however many people we have equal opinions equal everything and you know x like eight of them or whatever are working on this 24 7 so it's like unfair for me to just come like nah i like that it's like yeah i'm sure that they thought about that so you ask the questions you work through it but they've they've held strong and all these things and i'm pumped for them with that because i love this i do hope that we stop changing so often that's been old news i mean i'm very tired of having to do this every like two or three years you know just have these like the the press release at uh the finale about like what we're changing but i do think that this has some legs it's gonna take a minute to for people to get used to but i think it's just gonna be a thousand times more exciting and cutthroat and i just think fans love that so um good for the fans to be able to see like a sweeping change but it is directly is directly uh impacted and and um and pushed along by the fans opinions of like what they love and what they want to see awesome appreciate your time as always max thanks for joining us today uh and yeah we're stoked to see it as well and uh best of luck with with the fall and whatever you got going man it's a it's a it's a you know different time different different different era uh yeah mostly just school drop-off so yeah that's about what i got going on this time of year nowadays it used to be sitting on my butt but now it's uh it's actually way harder yeah thank you my friend see you guys all right that's gonna do it for today's show in the spirit of things that you know we've been asking the pga tour to do uh and putting into motion uh there is a premiere tonight 8 p.m eastern time uh on the pga tour youtube channel of chasing sunday the second iteration of that will be from the bmw championship they had windham mic'd up for all of it they they hit the jackpot uh getting the winner of the tournament uh in there we've long asked for an nfl sounds of the game the one from the players uh i thought was excellent some really good content so the second iteration of that is coming tonight as well uh this week you know you brought podcast is brought to you in part by the nest the nest is our membership program here at no laying up we are completely independent and we uh and support from the nest members they fund our ability to make all kinds of stuff we believe in earlier this month we released a 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