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Okay, I have a new obsession, and for once it's not a country singer with a mustache, it's cozy earth, specifically their first lay at set. Now, I spend an awful lot of my time working from home, usually horizontal. Well, this has become basically my new editing uniform. When I first put it on, I was like, "Oh, this, this is dangerous." It is so soft and smooth, nothing scratchy, nothing stiff, and very important to a girl who can go from freezing cold to approximately the surface of the sun in four minutes. I don't get boiling in it. It's amazing. The problem is, though, it's that once it's on, I don't want to take it off. Evening on the sofa, cosier, editing, cosier, bed, still cosier, next morning making coffee, cosier, walking the dog, cosier, doing a podcast record, probably shouldn't be, but I'd still like to do it in cosier. And if you want to try it yourself, they make returns and exchanges really simple if the fit isn't right, plus there's a warranty against manufacturing defects. Head to cosierth.com, right now, and treat yourself to your own first lay at set. And this part matters. After you place your order, you'll see a quick survey asking how you heard about cosierth. Please let me know you heard it here and girls in low places. That's how they know I sent you, so don't skip it. Oh, I'm going to go put mine on now, I feel like getting cosier. Guys, seriously, check out cosierth.com. Guys, I'm here with Marissa Moss, who is a music journalist and author. We met backstage where I was presenting at Sky Deck at CMA Fest, and I honestly was having the best home of my life at Miranda's Brun. In your jokes were excellent, like, inappropriate and excellent. I mean, because it's Tennessee, you can't have children under 21. I guess that's our weird law, because they decided that drag is criminal for children. Like, they were definitely under 21 year olds watching that, I'm sure they were. Oh, rest them. No, but your jokes were excellent, and your drag knowledge was very on point. It was just perfect, and I don't know, I loved it. No, I loved it. It just made me. It kind of like is one of those things that, as a British person, like, I didn't really completely have the gravity of the importance of what I was doing until it was happening. Does that make sense? Because in the UK, we wouldn't really think twice about platforming a drag act, whereas I think, or drag acts in general, but I think over here, it is obviously a lot more heated, and it just felt so good to be a part of that. And I was honored to be able to, like, you know, have some fun, champion it. It was great. No, it was amazing, and you did such a great job. And yeah, it was, it was huge. I definitely feel like I got a little choked up. Well, I definitely got choked up when I saw my name in Rolling Stone. Don't you thought? I was like, Marissa. Well, I just like caught you backstage while you were, I think, maybe having a snack. And just like ambushed you. I'm sorry. So you're a very, you know, exciting music journalist and author in Nashville, but you also have this book out called Her Country, which anyone who is trying to understand why women in country are having a great time, but also a rehard time all the time. Read this book. This will give you such great context and make you understand country music and how we can support it better. I moved to Nashville. I'm from New York, originally. So I moved to Nashville 14 years ago, something like that. I remember so many times when I was here doing stories about country artists just being like, what the, what the fuck is going on? Like, there are so many talented women. They're not getting put in the spotlight. They're not getting played on radio, primarily. But there was one time where I went to a country award show. Mrs. The Long Winded Story. No, I'm, I want to hear what happened at the awards shake. I went to an award show in Nashville, one of the biggest country award show. It was just bizarre to me like the way the women were treated versus the men. The whole experience was strange to me because the women that were there were so incredible. Like Miranda Lambert was there. She was winning awards that year, Casey Musgraves. The questions that were being asked of them. Anyway, Long Story Short, I wrote this kind of sarcastic piece for Rolling Stone from the press room and I don't really write a lot of sarcastic pieces. I'm like, oh, I'm more serious in my writing, I guess. But they were not happy with that piece and I ended up getting banned from the CMAs. You've been banned from the CMAs. I think I'm back on now because everyone that works there has, that worked there at the time is since left. So this was like the Nashville Old Guard that was like someone is here that's trying to rock the boat. We can't have this. So you're now walking back in like in Bridesmaids where she comes back to the front of the plane. There's like, I am Mrs. Inglises. Yeah. New Guard there, I think, interested and, you know. Well, I think it's so funny because I think me and you kind of both do the similar thing, but just like I'll look completely different like ends of we both ask the questions that people maybe don't expect or want to answer. I do it maybe in a more raunchy, funny way and you do it in a more sort of like challenging and productive way. I think I think both things could be productive. I think they're both great. They're both great. But I think, you know, that is, it's just funny because like I think that country music does really love a woman with opinions, a woman who's strong, a woman who's tough, a woman who is independent and fierce. But then as soon as they say something maybe that is a bit out of that, it kind of the women might maybe get punished for that. And I feel that there's like a little bit of that line that I'm flirting with sometimes of like what's pushing the boundaries in an exciting way and what could tip over into you've offended, you've upset, we can't have this. And I think, especially to podcast, it's a very delicate dance because you're constantly saying things that get you into trouble. But I think it's important that we're doing that. Yes. And you can get away with more, I think because you have a great accent. Maybe I heard that wrong. Yeah, it's just like a cultural thing. But I think it's the root of it is that people that come on your show know that you love country music. And they know that you're not fucking with them because you're looking down on country. They can tell that you have a genuine love for this music. And so you can ask the harder questions and poke fun and crack a joke and all that and get people to get on board with you because they know you love it. It's different when someone is coming like from outside of the genre that like doesn't give a shit. I think people can tell. Yeah. But I think you like you write really funny stuff like my favorite in them. You're you have a, would you say it's a blog? Don't. Oh, don't actually unbox this newsletter. News that's it. So your newsletter don't rock the inbox which everyone again should also get onto. I love that. How much you talk about Gavin adcock not emitting his pockets before he goes on stage. And like how that's so funny because it's so true. You I can visualize Gavin adcock having so much in his pocket. How much in his pocket? But like could a woman ever dare to go on stage being that sloppy because everything it seems with the women in country music has to be so polished tight. They are held to such a different standard of expectation. And the messy girl hasn't really reached country music. I don't think that much yet. The messy girl era. Yeah. It's still quite polished. Yeah. I mean I think about even I remember it was another award show. We have so many country award shows. Where Ella Langley was on. Maybe it was a year or two ago. Wasn't that long ago. And she was being criticized for how it didn't look like she was smiling enough. Or like being grateful enough on stage. Cheer up, love. And that went and she had won awards. I think that night and performed and degrade. And it was like well she looked a little bit ungrateful like she didn't smile enough. It's just like yeah it's like I think the Gavin adcock thing started out of me being like yeah he looks like an absolute like he looks like a slap. Like he goes up there in jeans that are too tight. And then he tries to put like an entire content of like his house into his pockets. Like he's got like you know it always feels like there's a box. That's why I said like I decided it's a palm pilot. I don't know if like your listeners will know what that is. No I do. It's not like a modern one. Kind of like a blackberry. Yeah but like maybe even predates a blackberry. It's like really boxy. Oh there's like electronic items. You know the little things people would wear on that belt in like the city. Oh like a beeper. Yeah he might have like those two. But just like everything. Like clearly there's tobacco. There's keys. I'm like you don't need your keys and your phone to go on stage. But like maybe Wilson's trying to find us. She still allows to have them. She's thinking about it. That song is about everything in Gavin adcock's pockets. But he's well at Gavin adcock. What I mean a woman could never do that. Yeah. And he goes on there like shirtless. I'm happy for Gavin. I'm happy. Keep doing it. Keep going on shirtless. Keep doing it. But like yeah it's it's it's a completely different started. And I'm like I've been complaining recently about like you know you see Megan Moroni's production it's fantastic. I'm going to go see Casey you know the balls that everything is so like thought through and designed and I love that creativity and I don't ever want the girls to stop. But like the boys aren't doing that. Part of it was what you said earlier we're talking about stage coach where like you would look at something and you would be like okay stage coach and this is something I'm reading about for Rolling Stone right now actually. Right. that you look at stagecoach and it's all men and it yes you can blame the bookers but there's also so many layers before that that you had to get to have a lineup that looks like that and everything runs so deep here but I just wanted I really wanted a story because at the time I wrote this book it's a little better now with Ella Langley having chart success and some songs from Laney Wilson it's still really bad across the board in general if you look at the numbers but it was really bad when I wrote the book and I wanted to have something that showed like if you look at the chart success and the men who were popular in this time period you're gonna see all men you're not gonna see the women that we think or so iconic that you couldn't you know it's a no brainer I wanted to write a story that preserves the women that you wouldn't see on the charts and that would show like I don't think a lot of people if you don't listen to country music or engage with it know how deeply misogynistic the country music industry can be I think people assume that are maybe more invested in like in pop music or you know other different genres that things have gotten a little bit better across the board yeah but in country music they've actually got a little bit worse yeah like the women of the 90s and you say this I mean the book is kind of focuses on KC Mills Graves Maron Morris and Mickey Geiten and you're talking about all those girls who like they're the same age as me so we would have grown up in that late 90s early 2007 where it's like faith hill like all these massive art female artists empowering artists were on the charts and smashing it and then it's just taken a dip and it just you always expect with like everything in life and then everything must be getting better for women and everything must be getting for the LGBTQ community and to have this strange dip off where then suddenly I mean the lettuce and tomatoes analogy is like so infuriating to me that a radio so I'm just trying to put this into layman's terms for the listeners who might not understand correctly forget anything wrong but the radio used to be a lot more owned by a lot of different people and then it's sort of in the early sort of mid 2000 late 2000 something it kind of got consolidated into very few people owned all the radio in Nashville right right so we have now I think it's four major groups now that might be I feel like it consolidates further every day but just you know a very limited number of companies own all of the radio stations right so it's consolidated basically you have someone this is a simplified version of it but you have someone in New York who's in charge of programming overall for stations that are like you know all across America and rural America and all these different spots so you have consolidated programming that if they decide that like you know Gavin Luke so-and-so or what we're playing that's what we're playing you have far fewer individual people in small markets making decisions yeah like let's give us a chance let's give this woman a chance let's go with this artist yeah they're far fewer opportunities to do that and someone said oh let's play the men's the lettuce and the women as the tomatoes right man yeah men are the salad to be used as the base like the baseline and tomatoes are to be used sparingly those are the women you know and then we go into the more diverse groups and they're like the pine nuts yeah it's just like it's just as well I mean in the conversations I've had about the book some people are like how come you didn't focus on someone who you know this sort of more Americana artist or this like outlaw person and I really intentionally wanted to use artists to focus on that did try to make a go at like a traditional music row country radio career because all three of these women have done that tried to have their songs played on radio to varying degrees of success because if that's what you want if you want to be on radio and have that type of a career you should be able to have it like you shouldn't have to say well this isn't available to me so I have to do something else that should be available to you but also like that world is not welcoming to women or black artists or queer artists or any of that so you have to build something different and that's what these artists have done also the cool thing is that Casey is now getting a little bit of country radio airplay with dry spell which is insane to be like you wouldn't play like a lot of girls if that's something you're into but you'll play like hey let's ride an eggplant like it's crazy to me but awesome like and do you think that's because times have changed a little bit we're all getting a bit more liberal about sex or do you think that that's because men like women singing about sex yeah I mean and they don't like them singing about taking drugs or doing whatever they want yeah but they like the fact that a girl might be at a dry spell for them that's a great like don't kiss girls but yeah don't kiss girls but kiss us can I put my truck in your driveway I mean that's a great point maybe times have changed like I think you know like Sabrina Carpenter people like that who was inspired by Casey like that's the cool cycle of everything like Casey was one of Sabrina's influences have opened people up to songs that are a little bit more I think Miranda Lambert did that for women too but I think like Casey in turn sort of like change things for herself over time like she couldn't get those songs on the radio and then other women started to have some success in her way like the Ella Langley's Laney Wilson yeah she's like whole yeah I'm coming back and then she comes back so it's like it's it's cool to see and wild that that was the song that they're like yeah we're gonna yeah we're gonna play this but I mean everyone's yeah times are tough everyone really wants to get laid yeah everyone does want to get laid yeah I really do I would say something that how do I say this I'm gonna say this and you're gonna tell me if I don't want to say this in a negative way but it feels sometimes like the country music scene can only champion real I mean really champion highlight spotlight one woman at a time it felt like for a long time recently that's been Laney and then I feel like the shift is now going on to Ella and that doesn't discredit any other women that are killing the game but it feels like it gets almost like I don't know it almost still like sometimes we get fatigue of then that one female artist when there's this incredible undercard that is like coming up to or came up with Ella and we can't hear from all of them we have to just we'll hear from one for a really long time and they'll sweep every award that's going and because obviously there is the desire for the female artist because Ella's killing it right now and we're gonna watch her you know I think Casey actually even said like I'm gonna have to build I'm gonna have to prepare to cry where something really pretty because I know that Ella's gonna sweep the awards like and that's exciting I'm so excited for Ella but it does feel like okay this is gonna refocus on one person maybe for a while here and she deserves it it's great but I think do you feel that way do you feel like sometimes it's just we get one for a have a moment and why we not letting it all yes very much so and you have like before you have these conversations you always have to be in like maybe this is what you were sort of feeling is like absolutely nothing against the success that these women have like and I think they would say that too I think if you ask Laney or Ella or case or however it was at the moment they would be like yeah I don't want to be the one like that's ridiculous that other women should be up here with me too right like Laney does that she brings she's brought Ella she's brought up Sonic Hayton but she's bringing up and Ella does it too like Ella produced a record with Miranda Lambert she's taking Laney Wilson and Gabriel Gabriela Gabriela Rose yes but and Lisa Kay Booth on tour like she's doing that work that all the women are and I think they would say if you ask them directly they would say no like I should be up here with other women not surrounded by a room full of dudes I hope that's the work that I'm doing but it's frustrating because you look around and like you can see the women that we've cycled through and there'll be these periods where we're like oh this is really exciting there's three women at most usually it's just one and that there's sort of like the one and then there's like the two that have come behind it or like the one behind and the one that's almost out those are like the three focus and then there's like the center one and those then cycled through so it's like you'll look back and you'll be like okay hit this award show where is Ashley McBride like where is Carly Pierce where is Kelsey Ballerini like what's going on like why can't they be like reach that point and then everyone just stays there like the dudes so true that is like an element of like yeah there's a cycle and the guys I mean I feel like Chris Stapleton is one for white horse for about six years and a row I'm like well and I love that song but I'm like Chris Stapleton I mean I think that's also like as British people like we there's talk that the award cycle is a little bit different because like it's of that calendar year and that's it whereas your sums songs can like travel over year. So I do understand it's kind of a different category over here, but like sometimes I'm like, "Oh, what horse is there again?" Like it's such a good song, but I'm like, "What is happening?" I think also, you know, within that, there is this whole thing of, can we stop pitting women against each other thing? And, you know, I'm gonna talk about it. The Ella and Megan story has been this story for like the last three, four years, which I absolutely hate. And the worst thing is when I see like publications continue to do it, continue to perpetuate that narrative. Why do you think that that narrative is there no matter, it's Megan Ella, there's a perfect example of how that disgusting narrative has been pushed out to everybody, but why is that still happening? - Yeah, it's just all, we cannot get it in our brains that there are like more than one worthy woman at a time. And I haven't, like, I feel like out of like, personal protest of like refused to follow that situation. I'm like, I don't even wanna know. But there's two completely separate artists. They have completely separate tones. It's like apples and oranges. It is, and two people can win at the same time. Three, four, five, 10 people can win. I don't understand why, and especially it makes me sad when I see women in the comments doing it, because saying, "Well, I like this, "or I like this person more. "I like this person's a way." But I'm like, why are we trained to also do that? It's like sad, and it must mess around with their heads. You know, I can't even imagine. - And now I'm at the point where I'm like, you know what, like, fuck 'em. If you wanna use that to make your careers bigger, like, whatever, go ahead. - Do it. - I don't think it should work, create, but like, I don't know, like, not saying they should create it, but if people are gonna do that to these women, like, okay, we'll use it. - Let's capitalize on this. - Yeah, capitalize. - We're kind of like the whole Alex Cooper, Alex L fight. There's been going on, like, there's kind of been, like, this, sometimes I'm told we're like, if like, I don't know, a girl or someone, somewhere, somewhere in the industry, someone does something really shit to me. And people say, Katie, don't punch down. There's no point, it's not a good look. And I'm like, well, when someone, girl boy, anyone, does something shitty to me, who's huge? I'm like, but can we punch up? - Yeah, 'cause that actually might help us. I'm gonna do some punching up today, but I haven't used that card yet. I'm waiting for my big public feud. I don't know who it's gonna be with. - Who do you reckon it's gonna be with? - Oh, that's exciting. - If you could pick one person for me to have a public feud with, who would it be? - Oh my gosh. This is a great question. - Courtney's got a few ideas. (laughing) - Public feud. - Public feud. - Okay. - Like an artist or a podcaster? - I think let's go artist. - Artists. - Me and C.O. Vaughn having a public feud could be great. Maybe we could have a feud and then turn it to lovers. - Yeah, that would be. (laughing) - Feel like the ultimate Rob Cobb. The podcasting Rob Cobb. - I don't know, is he your tape? - The eyes, sadly, yes. - Okay. (laughing) - He didn't actually, I do have beef with him. - Okay. - Because I did the reimagined girl version of climb tree with Luke Bryan, like at C.O. Vaughn first. And I saw that Luke did that, they did that the other day with him on his podcast and I was like, all right. Copyright there, Theo, I'm coming for you. - Is the beef gonna start now? - Yeah. - And then starting to a relationship. - Yeah, okay. - I would be interested to see if Theo was listening this deep into a Why Women. Not being champion enough in country at the same. But I think he, he's got layers. - That would be great. - So, Theo, if you're listening, I'll punch it up. - Maybe you could get involved in the Gavin Adcock, Zach Bryan beef. - Yes. - Like can you climb a fence? - I thought this was, this was where I was like, ah, a man did that post because Gavin did that, a post the other day where he stood by the fence saying, this is where he lost it. And he didn't use the song, the climb. And I thought, what a missed opportunity. I mean, he did actually, he was quite smart. He used one of his songs. So he probably got a lot of traction. He's, everyone doesn't do his song. But I was like, a woman who was on his team would have gone. That's my least iris, the climb. That would be perfect for this moment. - That's true. - But yeah, I'd love to, Gavin Adcock is like, on one of my tops, I'd like to interview. I keep on saying, 'cause in the UK, I can say, I'd love to do Gavin Adcock. But like over here, that sounds like something else. - It's a different podcast. - Yeah, that's a very different way. He's got too many pockets. It thinks of the pockets. We ought to go. - We would take like 10 years from dig his pants off. - Yeah. - And that's married. We respect Zach to the marriage. - But also, I don't know. Do you feel, what do you feel like the girls who are listening can do to be supporting their favorite female contractors other than just streaming? What can we be contributing to to make sure that we're part of that change? 'Cause I know the girls want to make it change. Like we're all, I'm ready for it to change. - Yeah, that's a great question. And I think things are, like where you're from radio is better for women, right? - Yeah, well at this number one. - Well, she's been number one in the UK chose, which is insane. - Yeah, that's crazy. - But she's, I mean, she's doing well over here too, which is great. - But I mean, I think you just have to continue to be loud. And it's like, yes, obviously streaming and buying records and going to shows and all that is important. The funny thing is a lot of women already are doing that. Like women are successful in country music, but they're just not getting country radio air play. So it limits how many of them is able, like how many of them are able to have that top tier level of success. But be loud, if you see a lineup that's all men, like make a stink, comment on it, do what you can. Like if you have a platform, like if you're a male artist in your book somewhere with a woman, you should do some, if your book somewhere, sorry. If you're a male artist in your book somewhere and there's no women on that lineup, you shouldn't play that. You should speak out and have that change. - I find it really hard sometimes to get girls on this podcast. And I find it a lot harder than the guys. The guys, they're a lot more, their teams are a lot happier for them to come up. And that's not because I don't want the girls. I want the girls desperately, but I find that, especially the bigger girls. And I think that that is because they have more fear in their teams, about that they can't have a girl mucking around like that. Or maybe I might ask them something, or she or something, like they'll talk about their sexual, or just normal, and the funny thing is that like, I'm not dumb. I'm not gonna ask the same questions. I'm gonna ask Gavin Adcock to, you know, I don't know, Kelsey Ballerini. I'm gonna have a very different conversation because girls talk differently to each other than we do to guys who want to make fun of. Like, if you know what I mean, it's like, it's gonna be a very different conversation, but I just think it's so interesting that like, for a podcast that is so female-led and female-focused, we struggle to get the girls to come on. And I know that some of my staff people will be like, "Oh, so I want to be involved in the muck with that." And I get that for some, but it's a general thing. Why do you think that is? Do you think you agree with that? - That does not surprise me. In the least. - I, the hardest interviews I've had where I've sat down with like, that I couldn't really do anything with. As a journalist, we're with women. So I've had times where I've sat down with artists that I really like. And they don't say anything. Sometimes they sit there, sometimes they have someone for their team sitting next to them, sort of quietly like signaling. And it's not their fault. Again, it's not something I blame on the women. It's because they are so nervous that if they say one thing wrong, or they piss someone off, they do the wrong thing, they come off the wrong way, then that's it. Whereas a dude can just come on and like, he's not worrying about that. He's not coming on and saying, "Oh, if I say this thing, blah, blah, blah, like I'm not gonna get played on radio, 'cause they're gonna get played on radio." Doesn't matter. But for women, like the stakes are so much higher. So I fully understand why that happens. It sucks. It's so sad. Yeah, and I'm not just like, that's not sad for me. I'm so sad that this is another thing that I can see happen sometimes. It's when an artist, especially female artist, is at the beginning of their career and we have a really fun, frank, silly, good time conversation, important conversation, deep conversation. I might see them like two years in and they've hit the big time and it's happening and it's cool happening. And you can just see that they almost like a different person, not off camera, but on camera, they feel like a bit of a different person. I've actually had that with guys as well. You can see that it's affected them over time that they can't be as goofy as they were when they were at the beginning of their journey. And you can, that's because something, the things that have happened along the way, and I think that's obviously like growing in your career as well and things you've got to protect. And you know there's a bigger team of people that you don't want to let down if you say something dumb or do something and podcasts are scary. I mean, you clip one thing the wrong way and it travels on the internet and then that's it. But they're also a great thing. Yeah. So I don't really think that was a conversation. I was a question I had. That was just like, it feels, yeah, it feels sad to me. And that, it's more the girls I see that happen with. There has been a few guys as well, big guys as well, like. guys that I care about, and I just worry about them. You know, you just get worried when you see the human side. Like, I actually, I don't know whether I'll glue this, but I'm gonna say it. I did like a post yesterday that was like a silly post about like, "Oh, by myself." Being like, "Why Tucker, why?" 'Cause he's been spotted with Ella. (laughing) And I was like, "This is so funny." And it's so like feet, feet did to like, my banter with Tucker and it's great. And I was like, "Yeah, let's go." And I've woken up this morning. I haven't actually told you this either. It's okay this morning. And I was like, have I added some noise for both of them that is like annoying noise? And like, I know him, I care about his mom, I care about. Like, I don't know Ella, but I always support women's rights, wrongs, ins and outs. So I support her no matter what. But, and I definitely support that choice, 'cause it's a good one. But, I just suddenly was like, "Oh no, have I done something that is gonna affect them as people?" And like, you know, me going, "Why, why, why, Tucker? "If people don't see that as a joke, "sometimes the comments get a little loud." And people are like, "They're not really together." Or, "He would never do that." And then like, "Well, you know the girls will then go "for the girl because they fancy the guy "in the comments section." I was like, "Oh no, have I fed into that?" And it's like, then you feel like you're in a point where you can't do anything funny or like the internet is so contrarian that I'm like frozen to the spot. And I'm like, "I don't wanna lose my whimsy." Like, that's my whimsy is doing that. You know, and I'm like, "Oh no!" That was funny. - Okay. - They clearly, I think, someone must have confirmed that. So I think they were clearly ready to be public. - Yeah, 'cause we've all had, it's been bubbling. - Yeah, and it just seems like they were ready to do what they left together. They knew they were photographers there. - He did look sharp, though. - He was like, "Yeah, I mean, I hope they were ready "for theirs, you know, I hope that's true." But again, like, when you do something like that, it's funny, you're coming from a place of loving both of them and their music. - Yeah. - But it's also funny because that broke yesterday and I watched your video and I watched a couple others, though, like, people had done that were funny, sort of similar things. And then I feel like I started getting fed. This, like, very bizarre corner of, like, Tucker, Wetmore, algorithm content, it was just, like, highly inappropriate. And I was just like, "How do I, how do I get "this off of my Instagram?" It was just, like, I can't even say it. Like, I don't know. - I can't imagine. - Like, really dirty, like, Tucker, Wetmore, I've been scrolling down my page too much. (laughing) - I need to, like, look at cooking rest, like, cooking videos all afternoon, until, like, I like to be like, like, the Tucker Wetmore Smart after my feed. - Just pass it over to me, give me your log in. I'll enjoy it. - Oh, boy. If you have anything you want to say, anything you need to get off your chest about this, and, like, that you feel like the book is saying, but you want people to kind of know. - What's on your mind right now? - Oh, boy. That's a big question. I sort of, like, I think what we've been talking about is, like, that, I think Nashville and country music tends to say, like, oh, we have a successful woman right now. We don't, the problem is solved, this is great. Like, we can just all chill, problem solved, everything's fine, and that is really frustrating to me. Like, feeling like you can't have two, the two things can be true at once. - Yeah. - Like, we can be so excited for Ella's success in all of these things that are happening, but also still be really interested in making sure the genre keeps pushing to allow more women in, to allow more black artists and queer artists to have success, like, I feel like we've just totally forgotten that conversation. Like, oh, that's fine. Like, we have a woman that, well, a woman is just a, well, she's still a white woman. So just, we need to be able for two things to be true at once. That like, we can celebrate what's happening and applaud the achievements and the progress, but also still be really focused on making sure this genre is as inclusive as it can be. - Yeah, 100% hard agree. Girls, if you want to get this book, it is now available in the UK, which is really exciting. It's called "Her Country" by Marissa Armos. And you need to go and get it. Brush up on your facts. You can drop some really great things at your next country music dinner party about this topic, and you can be really informed. 'Cause I feel like I know how I feel about it, but reading your book has given me the information to be able to weaponize it properly when I speak to people. Ooh, I love that. Okay, good. (laughing) That's the best compliment. (laughing) Put that on my team's side. Right, now after this, I can't tell you, I've got this such like a complete different episode that I've gotta do, which is gonna be all gags and stupidity and smut. - That's what we, I mean. - That's what we're here for. - Get yourself a girl that doesn't think. - Which two things can be true. - Two things can be true. (laughing) Tucker went more smart and serious journalism. (laughing) That is girls and layplaces in a literal nutshell. - That should be like my Instagram bio. (laughing) - Make you a shirt. (laughing) - Tucker went more smart and serious journalism. - Hold back a pink. - A pink ampersand. - Yeah. - New merch. - Right, we're taking a collab with Marissa Boss. Brilliant. - You're welcome. - Thank you so much, coming all. - Thank you.