Mark Baatz: The Man Behind California’s Tow Trucks

Welcome back everyone to another episode of Behind the Boom. I have Mr. Mark Bats from toe industry is Mark How are you? I'm good. Thank you So a lot of people know Pepe as like you know legends of towing we go back way before and we're one of the largest on the West Coast Now Mark is very similar. You don't tell yourself but you sell toe trucks, right? I sell toe trucks So my first name is Mark last name is bats the business is toe industries and We are a large towing in transportation equipment dealer in Los Angeles and one of our bigger customers favorite customers One of our favorite customers is is Pepe's towing so mark is the one that sold us Hulk 2.0 Hulk 1.0 big flipper and Virtually every truck here every truck. How big fans of the Pepe people for sure when we see each other at the Vegas Tojo I oh about that by the way here's the here's our thanks Contribute everyone watching this this is I'm holding up a best-in-show trophy This is the one you want to win because for some reason they gave out like everyone got a trophy They had best-in-show best rotator best rap best is best that best smile, you know, best headlight They had so many of them. I know but the big categories long This is the one you want to win best-in-show so I credit a lot of this to to you Mark I don't know if you've seen it yet. It's got some weight to it man. I haven't seen it close up It's nice isn't it? Yeah, it's it's the real deal American tomen Oh, he didn't show. Yep, and it your truck certainly did stand out as exactly that you can't go anywhere on the freeways Like if you notice all the tow trucks the wheel lifts especially in flabets. They all have towing industries Mod flops. We sure try right and we probably Just as much as as a form of marketing you know our original script to think you know that that LA script that we have Your industries that actually came from our from a parts guy that worked for us at the time in about 80 80 80 89 when I first moved here right about the time I first met your fuck you've met Joe Like Joe Peppies Rafi was our parts guy and I had just started with the working there and I said hey We really need something in the way of In the way of a logo that represents LA and I said can you give me an LA street vibe in the way of in the way of an emblem And now it's his first draft and as soon as he wrote it I said that that's exactly what I wanted to look like that makes sense looks like It really represents LA it almost has a graffiti field exactly was LA street graffiti. It was just perfect And I've never changed it. I can quantify like Peppies when I say we're one of the largest by volume You know 100 trucks and all that ranked by all the other tow companies on not just California But the West Coast how I always say you guys are one of the largest but I'm not a dealer I have no idea how big are you guys? I mean you wouldn't know more in your industry as a dealer as a truck dealer It's a dealer of course the most popular brands are the largest brand representation in the in the towing industry is Miller equipment which you Meppies has been a big proponent of for since inception you guys are big century Balkan fans And which I appreciate very much and those are the brands of course that we sold so while we're toe industries as an entity Which is a dealer essentially it's a new use parts and service warranties Repair we're a full on dealership for big towing and transport equipment what we represent is Miller equipment That's our that's those are our top brands of course. We'll pair it to any brand of chassis in your world Peter built the finest out there That the choice in this part of the world is Peter built But we pair it with Miller equipment now as Miller dealers go. I'm one of approximately 50 of those dealers and we fit in the in the top 10 of those dealers For coming up on probably 40 years. So we're a good size. So that would be accounted by sales right sales of units Exactly. It's a dollar. It's it's it's number of units dolly. It's measured more in in dollar volume Okay, so those big ones like Hawk they help because the dollar volume's big and it's measured on dollar volume cost of The dollar is a better hope and chassis Or expensive and we move a lot of chassis as well So we regularly fit in the middle of that top 10 category. I'd say you know where are we number? You know some years you might be as high as number three or four other. I'm not the largest But we're in that top group. I think it helps being in Los Angeles, right? LA is one of the things about about what works for us is Our competitors a good number of them are our internet sellers Which is to say they post and they'll sell anywhere in the country We're unique in that most of our sales happen in Southern California. Of course we do sell elsewhere But there's enough volume here that keeps us very busy Even our competitors like Navarro's you got city terras jandrow coaches Everyone was everyone and some companies that I'm very appreciative and very close to I grew up with all of them You know your dad Joe is a guy I grew up with we're born same day same year May 24th 1964 and all of the companies that you mentioned I knew the if I didn't know the original founders I knew the guys that were there 40 years ago and Thankfully you've all been so good to us So I appreciate that very much hey if I could interject you don't think there's a possibility you and my dad were separated on birth It's that kind of love I'll give you that It's like that in the video and Arno's watching anger twins Joseph joseph joseph not only front and center is friend He's a spiritual leader as well But he and then of course we move to customer. So he's the total package That's right. You do those uh men's prayer breakfast with them That's right that you guys introduced me two years years Yes, been years now it's just a great group of guys that gets together in in the Ontario area First Saturday of every that's funny man My channel he's known as the shredder and we know him as like angry Joe like oh don't piss him off He's gonna yell at you, but your dad yes, but outside of work people know him as pastor Joe That's that's that's where I but I don't know how much of that he wanted out there, but he's he certainly our guy I'm getting fired for that He's our guy you got any questions Alex yeah You know, we we spoke a little bit on the volume of of like you say your sales. It's based on dollar value, right? Um as far as Miller measures yes as far as Miller Um and being in the area seems like being on the last you know three three or four years There have been more companies getting rotators uh What do you think attributes to that getting a rotator? Um, you know when I first moved here back in the 80s and I'll try and bring it in quickly You know, there was a transition in technology that was coming about at that time We were moving out of sling equipment, which was you know what was built through the almost from inception until um until about 1980 when You know the the Holmes product which had the you know the world market really you know 80% of the world market and sling equipment excellent equipment There was the introduction of of the of wheel lift equipment flatbed started to become more prominent So at that point in time there was a there was a technology change which is really an ideal time For a person selling our type of equipment to come in because we had something fresh to offer, right? We were trying we were showing people um, you know that hey that the sling that's worked for you so well for all these years There's a new method and you know this this is what we're trying this is what we're moving forward So that was what drove you know that uh that sales for a good period of time because there were slings everywhere And the transition was newer cars lower spoilers uh plastic front ends as opposed to chrome or metal These cars all needed to be lifted by the wheels now or by the frame And so there was a transition in you know from one form of towing to another That's what brought us really brought about a big change in the 80s So jump forward to rotators, right? Rotators of course were out they've always been very very expensive which is it's prohibitive to entry meaning You know not everybody just goes up if I could say in the totric world the rotator is the top It's the Lamborghini. It's the top model It's the largest. It has the most features. You're exactly right and you guys were the were very early on and getting Getting pepies as a company that's at the forefront of heavy duty towing and as far as acquiring equipment That's uh that's first and foremost You know in in supplying services in that area and you yourself your father been leaders in in that category I mean Joe yourself your your your your resources to the industry I call often for um, you know for advice help in guiding customers sometimes and what they're What the right equipment is where you know where their needs are concerned but to answer that's cool Yes, where to answer his question Alex's question There there was a couple of transitions in the past You know, they were stick booms that were off the back There weren't underlifts in the early days. They were simply held up with plates much the way a sling worked And then as the front ends of trucks and motorhomes Became more fragile meaning you couldn't just lift them with a plate The the underlift came about and then of course Then we moved to integrated equipment where the boom and the and the will if we're we're integrated for weight distribution benefit And that became the next trend and then the you know the elderado or the next piece was A rotating boom so that you didn't have to block all lanes of traffic while you were doing recovery and it offered you so much more in the way of versatility It's what was prohibitive about it was they were so expensive So it limited it to the you know the the guys that were really the pros and in in that type of work Which was the pepays and some of the other names that you mentioned You know the technology changed and you guys are pepays for for example one of the first to really jump onto it And of course take it to the level that you guys have Now you say why are we seeing more of them you know the way that recoveries are done for all companies to be competitive in that space They've had to follow the leaders and you know move out of their their their older equipment to This newer rotating equipment, which has become so popular because the leaders are using it I've said it on a couple podcasts over to that it seems everyone in their mothers buying a rotator But they don't have the rotator work or the operator swap Radum I feel like the rotator still be treated it was like the cream of the crop, right? Like you buy that because you need it and it's a serious piece of equipment. But like Alex mentioned, it seems like every week I hate you here so once we'll got a rotator and I'm like, who will companies that? Something like Hawkeaks, which brings me to another question I was gonna ask. In terms of pricing, is that like market driven or who sets that? 'Cause as you know with Hulk 1.0 purchased in early 2020, I believe up the door was like six something give or take. You know what FET taxes? Hulk 2.0, I'm not even people think I was kidding, it's just under a million bucks. But with everything, that's a huge increase and it's not just tow trucks. You're Honda Civic, you're starting car now is $50,000. For something that was like 30, 10 years ago, what is going on? Is that just like I said, market driven? Is it COVID? COVID, COVID inflation that happened, not to put your finger on who's responsible, but COVID driven inflation was absolutely astronomical. And I can speak to that from a personal experience. We were located closer to you in Los Angeles, we developed that property during the COVID period. And my initial budget, I was over budget by 2025% on that project as a result of the same inflation that you're speaking of. So while I'm sympathetic that your rotators and your equipment went up in price considerably, it hit all markets. - That right. - We're all experiencing it. It's stabilized somewhat now. We're starting to see interest rates stabilize again. We're starting to see prices, they're moving at what were the historical, small bumps that we had year to year. Whereas, but for the last five years, in some of those years, they were just astronomical increases. And tariffs and material surcharges now because of just the political atmosphere right now is also driving these prices up. And we just hope that these things are going to stabilize. I hope so too, because I have a text from you to you inquiring about a transmission. I was looking into like a Allison to Hulk 2.0, one of my dad first, you know, discuss it with me that we're gonna do it. That was almost three years ago. In that time gap, it went up like 100,000. So we pulled the trigger, like we need the truck ASAP here, but it wasn't our fault. We had a, you guys had a chassis shortage. Well, worldwide, right? - Sure. - I think it was familiar or well. - In California, you had something specific, right? Because we've been battling carb rules. Not to speak ill of all the rules that are out there, but our California Air Resources Board and it's drive to bring us to cleaner emissions, and it introduced rules regarding diesel trucks that required that a certain number of electric vehicles had to hit the road for diesel to come into the state. - One for every 10 or something. - It was one electric for every 10 diesel. So, Peter built, for example, was trying to up their numbers by buying credits from electric companies like Rivian. Anyways, this created shortages, right? So part of it was just shortages caused it, but in addition to just the shortages that drove prices up, the state introduced what they called mitigation fees. So if you were running a diesel, there was a penalty that came with it. And on a large truck like your rotator, there was a $15,000 penalty that was in place over the last couple of years, right on the front side of the truck, because a diesel truck was deemed undesirable. And the mitigation fee was there to discourage the sale of a California truck. - They could call it a foreign truck. - And I spoke on this in front of the Air Resources Board. And it wasn't a criticism of all things electric. I think we can all recognize that there are benefits to that technology. In the right space, there are some benefits to electric, but there is nothing really in the heavy duty space that we're speaking of that satisfies needs. There isn't an electric alternative that's available today that's anywhere near workings. - And just a touch on that is, I mean, Miller, or anybody can work on, say, an electric rotator in the near future, or is that even the plans? I know it's from an engineering aspect that, I mean, at this point, it's almost, I wouldn't say impossible, but anything's possible. - Yeah. - But to make it feasible, I mean, to run a PT O-POM, to run all the electronics at once and have the truck stationary, Ida-Line, the whole time there. - Yeah. - I know it's not feasible at the moment, but is there a project in-- - I'm not sure it's feasible at a budget. So, Miller being the largest provider, the world leader in this type of equipment, and recognizing, you know, Jurdann, being the secondary large brand. Both of them are trying to stay ahead of the technology curve and modern trends, and stay ahead of, you know, where there may be benefit. If you could run the thing electric at a cost, you know, that's something to be considered if it comes to pass, you know, somewhere down the line. But for now, we're talking about running, you know, a set of batteries that are going to, that are not only gonna push the truck, you know, push the truck, we, first of all, these trucks are heavy enough already. And when we bring electric to them, they become heavier still. So we've got a weight problem, that's one. Then we've got a capacity problem. There's got to be enough battery capacity, not only to run the truck, you know, to get it to and from where it's going, but during the time that it's idling and you guys are doing your work regarding recovery, all of these functions are being run by-- - Sometimes for 10 hours, do you think? - Or better, right? And, you know, and then, you know, should they run out of power, you know, mid job, that we haven't quite figured that out yet. So it's a weight problem. It's a capacity problem as far as just storing enough power. And then these functions are the hydraulics on your trucks, on these big trucks are engine driven hydraulics. You know, we're talking about battery packs, it becomes an electric hydraulic situation, which you won't say it doesn't work, but this engine driven hydraulics have an efficiency right now or they're able to operate it at a level that, you know, that suits your needs. When it becomes electric hydraulic, are we able to get the same performance out of the equipment is just, is yet to be seen? - I could imagine you dude, up on a car fishing job, that's just killer. And it's like a six hour job and your battery dies up on Moholand or Angeles Force Highway where there's no cell service. How do you get back home, you know? Like, that's just, that's insane. - By how seeing some people with a Tesla, will they have a little trailer and a generator, a gas power generator at that? And-- - Just in case. - Just in case and it has a little plug in that. I mean, to me, it's just like, absurdity at that moment, you know? But I mean-- - With the big trucks, I can see where there's, where there, you know, the space for electric vehicles in the car market. You know, for a guy like me that drives 10 minutes every day to work, you know, but I plug in a small car and run to and back from work. I think there's space for that. Where it comes to, you know, to towing, the best examples I've seen are small Japanese trucks with limited capacity. They don't scratch the surface of the work that you guys do. - I get a question on my DM so much, just 'cause this channel's so popular. People like a lot of the rotators up but I got a lot of newbies too, like, "Hey, I just bought a flatbed or a truck or I want to get into this field." Like Alex is interesting towing. Don't want better to wear a S and U. Let's say someone's watching the channel and they want to start off like light duty. What is like right now the bear-to-entry cost-wise between a flatbed or a wheel lift? Like, what does that cost out the door? They want to start with one truck. Start with a new truck or-- - New truck, let's go brand new. Someone wants to-- - So if somebody was buying a small, call it light duty truck for, you know, to start their tow business, most people in that space are looking to finance that truck. That's gonna have its challenges just because the finance companies are typically looking for people with regardless of credit, with a little bit of a track record. So we're very aggressive in trying to help people put together finance packages for startups but it's harder to do. So what's a truck worth? So if we're talking about a small Ford or a small Japanese truck or a small Dodge, carrier wheel lift, the price are a small Chevrolet, for example. These trucks are trucks that price, on the light end from $110,000 to $130,000, $140,000. So it's not a cheap truck. So here we've got a starter. We've got a truck that's $140,000. Let's pick the center. $130,000. We've got to get a loan for it. There's insurance to be considered which is a real challenge in California today. - Moral bull. - Right. And then we've got increased fuel costs. These are the challenges that somebody will face as they enter in and then of course gathering accounts and you know. - Equipment. - Yeah, so we're the equipment challenge. We try and work that. We hope that whoever's buying it has done a little bit more forethought on who their customer might be and how to keep that money rolling just to get in the truck and start driving around would probably be a challenge for somebody just trying to start out. - What about if they want to do like a fly bed? You know, say a freight liner M2 with a fly bed like the ones we have here? - Yeah, then you're stepping the price up another $30,000 or so, right? So these are trucks that are on average, calling $155 to, and maybe on the light side, $145 to $180. If they're Peter belts like you, like you guys run, you know, those trucks can easily run up to with a few extras. These are trucks that are, you know, they're 175,000 in that range. - Yeah, if you want one of each, that's about 300,000 average, right? - Pretty cheap. - Find that's that. - Yeah, all of a sudden you're into, you know, you can get into some pretty fast money. - That's why I told people that by these rotators man, like you need to work for it. People just see the industry. - You want to be like a concern for sure. - It seems like you need to. - I'm keeping busy. And then of course it's, you know, not to jump in, but you know, first of all, you've got the equipment, that's one thing, but then we we loop it around to what YouTube guys do. Qualified drivers to operate this stuff. That's a pretty small circle of guys that are trained in that type of equipment. - It's getting smaller. - That's the next challenge, right? If you can get the money together to buy the truck, that's one, the accounts, but then who's driving this thing and who's willing to, what you guys do is, you're on call 24/7 and it's not just routine towing. It's very specific and it requires a knowledge and skill that takes a long time to learn. So you've been in this, geez, man, as long as my dad has been in this in the towing, did you start, did you start instantly in selling tow trucks, where are you a car dealer beforehand? - Yeah, and I appreciate the question. I came out of college with economics and statistics. I went to the car business because that's where my interest was. I've had two jobs, I worked in a Ford dealership, sales and then management and then, I moved to TLA to take on a sales job, selling, towing and transport equipment. So I was fresh to it when I came to it. And through guys like your dad who I grew up with and you guys are my resource as far as, learning about the equipment. I know where to get it, I know what it costs, but as far as really understanding what a customer might need, it's guys like yourselves that say, hey, this is how you spec a truck, these are our needs. And that's why I use, Joe, your father and yourself as a resource to other players that you're usually pretty friendly with a towing community at large and very helpful in guiding them on what they might need. - Bepp is Bill. I have that on Hulk 2.0 instead of the Peter Bill. Bepp is Bill. - I'm trying to brag about it all the time. - But he's not exaggerating. And either am I one my dad when I say that, he doesn't get Miller spec trucks. So like, let's say when you go to a car dealership and you want like a Honda, I want this package, this package. This is the equivalent of telling them, screw your dealer package. And you just tell them, 'cause some things are like, sir, we don't do that. That's what my dad does with his Miller trucks. I've been there in person at the factory, it's crazy. And I can't count how many times people have been sent over from you. Like AJ, I feel like he'll told was one of them when he was getting a 50 ton rotator and then I'm going to Omar Ataidan. There's a lot of people like that where. - I lost track of how that developed, but I appreciate that. - That's it, sold again. We've seen it at your yard when I was there with-- - My husband's resold it. - Yes, but that was from AJ. He got it because my dad was like, hey, this is the difference between a 40 and a 50. You want this? This is how you do it. There's been a lot of people phone calls and I was like, all right, Joe, alternator-wise. He has it down to what's a crazy sign. 'Cause like, you're gonna want this. You're gonna want this. You're gonna want rears, you know, X amount this. I don't even know how to do that yet. But he is like crazy. Like very, very, always like open door, open phone. I can't count how many people-- - He's a street leader. - How many people have like order trucks from your respect them based on what he says. And actually, some people that couldn't, I know there's, I can't name the companies, but there was one like, I want to truck like that one and a rival company called and said, I want it like that, just like how Joe has it's respect. Didn't they send the price tag and said, never mind, I'll take Miller's spec. (laughing) - So change it down. Yeah. - But I have sold trucks before by calling Joe and saying, he look, he's never charged me for it, but I've said, I'll pay for your driver today, like it was a tow. Will you run him down and show it to a customer and have him show a customer a truck? And that's happened and it's been very effective because your driver will show up. He'll show up with his equipment. He's usually pretty happy with what he's got. And he'll do a marvelous job of showing a potential customer because I sell this stuff. I'm not an expert in its use, but your drivers are. So when I'm trying to present a truck to another tower, for example, that your guys there speaking his language, showing him how the trucks work, is very effective in selling them. - Yeah, of course. I mean, unlike buying it side unseen, there's almost like a test drive. When you want to buy a nice car, something like that, you can read the manual. - Sure. - And here's the specs and memorize it. But getting behind the wheel or getting in the passenger seat and someone, this is how it shifts. You see here, you know? There's nothing beats that. - And when your guys there tell them, hey, I bought it this way because this I need this for this. Or when they start really addressing why their specifications are what they are, it really has a potential buyer engaged in framing his truck just the way he wants it, which is what we try to offer, right? Something a little bit better than, it's a big experience, like you say, people are paying more than they are for the houses for these trucks. So, and they're in them a lot, to build it their way is something that we really try to do. - Dude, that's a good way to put it. People are paying more than houses. - Yeah, well they're expensive. I mean, you some people talk about the prices. - You could buy a apartment complex dude with all the trucks in this parking lot. I never thought about that. - That's what your dad says, I have 10 Lamborghini. - That's the last cover of American tomen. Hey, there's the whole setup. - Oh, the world taters, are we took? - Yep. - There's seven of them right there. - A bunch of begotty vey runs and stuff. - Dude, that's amazing, the prices. Which is the most popular truck that you tend to sell? - Most popular truck? - It's popular, they're every pretty much every company. - Do we want to speak of a big truck or a smaller truck? - You get that to try. - You run, you run, you run, you think you're in levels. So, okay, so when we talk about light duty trucks, in the past, I'll take a five year window. In light duty truck, Dodge has clearly been the winner as far as overall volume. We're seeing Ford reemerge as not to speak ill of any one product, but Dodge is a little bit more prone to problem recently. Ford has reemerged as the alternative. Those are the two real leaders in what I call light duty trucks. We do some work with Chevrolet International. That was not quite a successful truck. Japanese trucks, not everybody's calling, but they offer a very good product. But if you're asking for the leading product, I would braid it Dodge than Ford. As we move into the medium duty category, okay? As far as the truck we sell the most of, I would say that it's, you know, Hino, Freightliner, International is what we sell the most of by volume in that medium duty class. Peter built in Kenworth are light and wanted probably more, but they're a little bit more cost prohibitive. It's $10,000, $20,000 more for that truck. So it tends to be a guy who's a little more selective in his equipment that's moving into a Kenworth or a Peter built that and they don't offer an extended cab. So that sends you into a Freightliner Hino world for those that want extended cabs. But Peter built in Kenworth, I'd Peter built it is the, it's called at the, you know, I would call that the benchmark. That's the high water mark. Then we moved him to big trucks and you know, your yard is a testament to what most want. In the west part of the country, Peter built is the truck that people want. Now there is all kinds of specs and horse powers but a Cummins equipped manual transmission. Now we do more, we do a lot more out of Maddox than we did, but a maximum horsepower, Cummins engine, Peter built with just about every available option is the unit of choice for heavy duty towers. Kenworth would be a second, recognizing they're both pack our product. They're similarities, but the Peter built badge is the one that's the heavy favorite in that market. - Interesting. So when it comes to light duty, Peter builds too expensive for that area, but as you move off, the heavy, then it flips and Peter built becomes the de facto. - It's the one, yeah. - I guess because when you're dropping that much money, you can already afford the heavy, right? - Yeah, when you're getting, I think you probably hit it on the head. When you're spending that kind of money, it's often people like yourself that are the owner operators that run them. And there's a certain, there's a real sense of pride in building those trucks. And like yourself, you're the way your trucks were built. Even with personalized name tags on the inside, that doesn't happen all the time. But somebody running heavy duty equipment, I just say that the Peter built in Kenworth has been the more popular ones. And you could certainly say there's quality there that you don't see in not to speak ill of other brands, but the quality out of a Peter built or a Kenworth is certainly noticeable compared to a general road tractor in Freightliner or international for that matter. - It seems you got your finger on the pulse of the stuff. Like when you noticed from, they move from slings, you know, to wheel lifts and stuff as that trend happened. And the next figures, what do you think the next trend is gonna be? - Well, I think it. - The tow truck world. - When just coming from the Las Vegas tow show, where you were successful with your win, the interesting piece has been the electrics. And the only thing that was there was a small Japanese, it was a Japanese chassis with a battery unit built by somebody else, a bed built by somebody else, but there was an electric unit there. And with all the incentives offered by the state, they were very inexpensive, but they truly did have very limited capacities. Do I think that there's going to be something where electric becomes, you know, moves to the forefront? That seems to be where people are putting, you know, their research and development money is into this electric, but that's been driven by, you know, California being such a huge market. That's been driven by California's push to move us away from, you know, from a mission, from vehicles with emissions. Now with the political agenda changing, you know, the push is lightened up a little bit on the elimination of diesel. So the push towards electric will probably lighten up somewhat and I don't think we were close to having a product that really worked there anyway. So in recent years, electric has been where we put a lot of our focus. What I'm seeing now with the product that's out there, it's sharpening up what's already there. Flatbeds, for example, that have improved load angles or we're, you know, lifts that, you know, the components are getting slightly better year to year, body-style differences. But these are cosmetic differences, and they're not true technological changes, you know. You guys have been at the forefront of quite a few of them. One of them that came up recently, you know, not that long ago, in the last 10 years, was the, you know, the knuckle boom cream that picked up things off the side that you guys-- We still have it. Right. There's one that had its moment, but didn't really, you know, I thought that might be something we saw more of. It didn't really take off here, even though it's popular in Europe. It was super popular. That's even over here, Europe. Yeah, tighter streets, hard to get around, lighter cars. Yeah, so I went to France recently in February, and everywhere I'd go, I actually have videos of them. They were these flat beds with knuckle-booms on them, and they were working flat beds and everything. But occasionally, to those cars, it couldn't reach. It was just cring over and lifted with this attachment. Exactly. And to just take off, and they're actually pretty quick about it. They have everything ready to go. They said tidal streets, a lot of Europe's like that, right? Yeah, oh yeah. So I think that's why it's just like Little Vehicle. It's an area, you know, like the UK and places like that where there roads. Imagine driving Hulk down a lot of those European back countries and stuff. I think that's probably why it's a territory. Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. The lighter product, tighter spaces, and you're trying to accommodate that. And that's why so many of those trucks are cab over style, as opposed to, you know, engine forward. And the turning radius on those vehicles is much tighter. So they're easier to maneuver in those tighter spaces. I think we're going to sell that truck. Is that even legal to buy here? Yours might not be only because of its year. It's an old Kenworth. Right. So now if somebody was buying it and could prove that they were running less than a certain number of miles, I think you're still able to. A thousand? Yeah. I don't know if they changed it, but it used to be a thousand. Like number of miles. Yeah. So anyone watching out of state, we got a knuckle boom for sale. And that's because it is unique. One of my first YouTube videos was with that. We were in the Beverly Hills area and you couldn't fit a truck way out of back into like this driveway and reach over a creek to pick up a car. And the house right there, the lady was like an attorney for environmental law. And they're like, this is all protected. Yeah. So you couldn't like damage anything and I was nervous, but that thing is amazing, dude. Yeah. That knuckle boom, you'd be surprised on how everyone has them. But I guess some more like an unnecessary luxury. They're way more than a regular flabby, right? Much more. And you have to have, it's not like a flabby where anyone can just, I don't want to downplay of that. Anyone can run a flabbed, but it's a lot harder to run that because you need kind of like the crane mentality because you got outriggers. Sure. And if you start rotating and lifting without planting, right? You'll feel your tip. You're tip it. Yeah. It's similar to operating rotating equipment, right? You need real training to understand just, you know, what can be picked up from where? So that you're not creating a hazard. You know, by picking up too much weight off the side, for example. And tip charts and all that stuff. Tip charts, yeah. Yeah. Training is, you know, is key to running that equipment. And then in terms of like, depending on the territory, like Alex mentioned, those are popular in Europe. So are like the cabovers, you know, like the where you're, where you just look, you look and you're already looking at the floor. Yeah. I noticed in the US too, that applies, but with different manufacturers. So for example, NRC and all those other ones are insanely popular on the East Coast in the Midwest. I see all the time. Yeah. We don't have any here. I think city terrorists is the only one with them like, they still have it. Okay. I see it every day passing by. Yeah. They still have that thing. It's a work truck, but they're the only ones I know of and I know everybody. I know. All the way. Well, yeah, the fire department. They like the NRC. But besides them, you have to go to unique towing up north, you know, by the Bay area. Well, the NRC product is a Canadian product. And not to speak ill of it. It's a very popular and it's very capable. You know, the number of NRC's that will come into the country will, they will be dependent somewhat on what the exchange rate is. So if the Canadian dollars cheap and you can buy it at a reasonable price, that, or even a more reasonable price than an American made product, that's going to drive how many of them, you know, how many of them move. You say East Coast, they're actually built in Quebec, which is the East side of Canada. Oh, no, I mean, I see them like on my, for other YouTube channels that I follow. Yeah, they have them a lot like on East Coast and the Midwest and stuff for some reason. Yeah, there's a lot of them there because the manufacturing in Canada is on the east side of the country. So it's closer. Oh, that's quite a lot closer. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's a lot closer. So that's probably why you don't see them coming back. That's what I was going to tell you about New York. So you're not that far away from it. Yeah. And why aren't they that prevalent, you know, one of the things that, you know, not only is it, you know, is it the product that you want? No question. And you guys are guys that aren't compromising on product. There was a better one out there that you felt you could pay more for you probably you would. The thing that that the Miller group has, and I will, but I'd point this above all of the other manufacturers is their distribution network. It includes me, but it's not just focus on me as a set of dealers. Miller has the most expansive set of dealers, the best factory representation. It's going to be hard to be Miller on. If it's not product, it's customer care, availability of parts, dealer support, awful hard to get ahead of Miller on that one. And we're proud to be part of that group. Oh, they fly in all the time. Sure. Like Josh Lovelace, Mike Frazier, Mike Frazier was like one of the head trainers now for Miller up there. Yeah. He sent me a picture while I was on the way to Vegas. And he was on Australia. He's like, these guys are huge fans, you know, and I was like, what are you doing on Australia? He's like training. They bought a, they bought a rotator and they sent me over to help them work it. You're the guy. Australia, that's insane. Yeah. And I know when Alex had initial a big flipper with a pin like on the, the hour, right? On the hour, right on the front hour. Josh Lovelace came in person. Yeah. Josh is local and Miller offers this local. So that customer service is in and we are. And we are. You know, our guys had come to you at any time that you call this, but if it's a Miller-related problem, meaning factory, you know, they've got a factory man on site that's going to get to your problem pretty quick. They're hard to beat on customer service, customer care. Would you ever consider, I don't even know if it's possible, but Jardin, I see them coming up more and more and more. I've never operated one. Yeah. Or we know as Miller here, but would you, can you sell Jardin or would you? Well, my connection to Miller equipment is a long standing one. And as their dealer, there, there's a certain, it's, I won't call it a loyalty requirement. But there's an expectation that if they're doing their job supplying us, that we stay loyal to them with their product. Now of course, that comes with some, you some responsibility on Miller's park. If they are staying at the forefront regarding quality of equipment, customer care, new technology, then, you know, we, while they're offering us the best stuff to sell as a dealer, probably I, not probably it's our responsibility to support them in the same way that they support us. And I would do the same if I was a Jardin dealer. If Jardin was the one that was, you know, supporting and helping me move my equipment or keep my, my business alive, I would owe them a certain amount of loyalty. Not only because we believe in the product and not to say that it doesn't have its shortcomings and that they're under the good ones out there. Miller in, in our view, is, is the best one in the way of product line, certainly in the way of support. And as, as sales has a sales entity, it's the easiest one to sell in service. So there's a selfish aspect to it too. Right? Or it makes sense business wise, right? Sure. Yeah. Now, in terms of, I think I have one that you have, you probably sold everything with wheels under the sun. Sure. Sure. I guarantee you you haven't sold this one. Have you sold yet an M100? No, haven't sold an M100. Do you think you will? Well, there's always next year, Josh. I thought I was going to ask you, you want to buy one? One of my favorite videos out there is LA's first 75 ton rotator that was your work in creating. Whenever I meet up with a friend or a family member that asks me, you know, what, what, what your stuff and you know, what, what do you do? I use that video all the time for a number of reasons. Damn, and that's an old video, man. It's an old video, but it's a really well done video. I have a drone in it and everything on it. I never want it shows the surrounding in which we, where we all live, right? So I go, hey, this is, this is kind of our turf. So it does a really good job of pointing that out. And then that, that truck has some very unique features. And it really, the way it's presented, it really does a wonderful job of pointing out just how special the equipment is, right? That was a very specific specification for one. But I mean, right down from the truck selection that has your name on the front of it to the back that has, you know, a rear tag axles, the only one we ever did, 75 ton rotators. We've only done a handful of them. No underlift either. That was before the effort. He was the first to do it. It was the high standard, you know, at the time. And people questioned, you know, the way you guys built it with this rear tag axle. But you know, when it was explained to you, when that first came out, that video you're talking about, there was a lot of comments because it was new to the toy industry. Sure. It's a 75 that axle wise, wise in the front. Where's the underlift? That comment alone, like, how are you going to tow it? Where's your underlift? To like, what a stupid design. Yeah. You're always be like, you know, for us, he's like, all my other rotators have underlifts. All my other heavies out. He's like, I'd have to be an idiot. Dubai 75 ton rotator in California to tow box trucks, you know, all day long. It's an exclusive recovery unit because we have that work on the tight areas because the lift axle lifts up. Oh, do we get tight jobs? Yeah. Alex is in front taking the lead and he's like that. And I'm like, Austin Powers, like in the hallway with the cart, like backing up. And so that's why he usually gets those those tight area jobs. It helps a lot raising the axle. The first time I'd seen it, but that was definitely no Joe's design. And it brings you into the detail and they and call it the pride that you guys put into into building your trucks. So right from the lettering to the spec on the truck and the front, to the equipment on the back, I mean, there's-- it can't be specific, but there's tens of thousands of dollars in snap on equipment in the toolboxes, a refrigerator. And all of the things that just make the truck special, that it just speaks to the care that goes into speccing the truck and just how special it is, that it hits the road and that the drivers take a lot of care and the owners take a lot of care and in really ordering special equipment. At the time I made that video too, my dad was very specific when I make the description, because he's friends with everybody. So he wanted to shout out the other ones. He's like, make sure you mention that now we join the ranks of van Lingen, but they're entoranced. At the time, they had a 10, 75. Katie, a 10 West. He had a 10 West up there. And then Kirk, over there, they had a 75 ton. But it was accurate. In the city of LA, the actual Los Angeles, not county, but the city. We were the only ones in LA city. Sure. Still are, I think-- It was the first one. Since then, I know-- Navarro is house one. I think-- Marro. Stay white has another one. How often does that-- does 70-perfts and get sold? Not very often. Once a year or less. No. I look at it as when I look at my larger-- the group of towers that are towing companies that I represent in the larger space. It's a pretty tight circle of the companies that are really at the top. And then on top of that, it's who's buying the biggest and most elaborate. And that narrows down the scope of people that want to truck like that even more. So my audience, if every one of them bought one, it might be 10 players, right? All in. And so is there a couple of them? I mean, we've sold, I think, three of them in my time. Will somebody end up buying an M100? It's very heavy for California. You guys, when you bought the 75 ton, you said, hey, we're going to do it. We're using it as a recovery vehicle. You're the guys that would do it if it's coming to pass. And just there may be a lighter version of an M100 coming up. So we'll see where they go. An M90? Yeah. I think they were going into the 65 ton. They did a 60 space, I think it was. Oh, a 60 ton instead of a 75. 65 somewhere in there. So you've already got something bigger. I thought they were going to do an 85 ton. I heard 85 as a rumor. Yeah. But you never know. Because always doing R&D. Yeah. Nothing's come to us yet with it. Your dad did say if they make an 85 ton, he would get it. And you're an build an 85 ton. But then that was a pretty-- And our season one. And our season one that has an 85 ton. I don't know why my NRC's as well as I should. But you know the answer to it. They have one called a hymn in a her, right? The heavy incident. Okay. A madman. Yeah. Yeah. I got no experience with them, but more competitions better. But yeah, if they do sell an 85 ton, I think my dad said that would be flipper 2.0. Yeah. Well, here we come. Now wait. It's $3 million. I hope prices are down by then, man. Man, I doubt it. You know, I haven't seen-- in all the time that I have been at it, very few times have I seen prices come down. Once a manufacturer is able-- you know, it charges a certain amount for a truck. And most of it's in the truck equipment. Yes, the equipment goes up. But the trucks are the ones that have just consistently gone up every year. Instead of you seeing them going down, how about this one? Since you started, I'll give Hulk for an example. When we bought Hulk 1.0 to 2.0, that's about a 33% increase in price. In your career, how frequent is like a 33% increase in the truck? I've seen them before. So this is unprecedented. Yeah. The COVID inflation-- So they do that. It jumps up a third. And then when it drops, half percent people go, look, everything's cheap again. Right. Well, we lost those mitigation fees that I was speaking of. The new administration has challenged these carburet-- the requirements of the California Resources Board. So there's been a temporary-- we don't have that fee today. Is that going to be permanent? I hope so until the right-- until that next technology comes along. But these mitigation fees going away brought down-- it certainly brought down a piece of it. And if a supply chain's opened up after COVID, prices stabilized. Did they drop? The only real noticeable drop was the mitigation fee. And then, of course, we had to deal with tariff shortly after. But they weren't anywhere near as high as the mitigation fees that were introduced for the air resources board. I know a lot of people that not necessarily went under but just not everyone could survive with those increased costs because it's not just their tow costs. You got fuel. Warp in over seven bucks a gallon for diesel. It is a narrower scope of customers that I'm dealing with today when I first started selling this type of equipment. I'm not sure I could put my finger on a percentage. But there was a large number of independent tours, guys with one truck, two truck. Call it smaller entities that were hauling for the auctions or handled a few-- And they could make a living like that, right? Yeah. And there was a real industry there. That's as much as gone away. We really don't have a whole lot of one guy shops the same way we did. That was a big part of it in the early days. Did it represent 20 or 30% it might have? Yeah, I think so, man. I know we had a guy in your seat three or four weeks ago, the repo guy. And he does a commercial repo. He's like one of the V-bay commercial repo guy. What's Eric? Eric, Eric. OK. From H and-- I forgot. H is something. I always bought his last name, but it's M-I-Z-E. Mee's. Oh, Eric Mies. I know Eric. Mies, there. That guy. Yeah, we sold him a DT union at not too long ago. It's a nice one. Yeah. And he shows love to it. I think he's got a-- I think a landal too and some flab beds. But yeah, crazy knowledge. Like-- Yeah. I didn't think the repo world was like that at all. So he's showing some light on that one. But he said, he's like, you wouldn't believe it. One of the biggest things he has in his yard enough for repos is tow trucks. Yeah. Flab beds at that. Flab beds? Flab beds, he says, flab beds. Yeah, I'm interested to know that. I won't say we're at the heaviest level where we're concerned where I'm not noticed. Certainly, repossessions are up. Is it the worst it's ever been? I won't say that. But if Eric's doing it and he's got lots of them, he would probably know. Yeah. Because they don't all come back our way. Sometimes they go to auction. We don't see everyone that comes back. Or the bank or something like that. Yeah, the bank will auction it. It might not come back to the dealer. Yeah, it usually does. Well, he does everything from repoing MRI machines, whatnot to crazy stuff. But yet, he told me that was it 20 of my tripping. I'm pretty sure I heard that word 20. I just find Derek. Oh, we did a job. He called and we give him a price quote to lift. 80,000 pound forklift. And I didn't look 80. So I was tripping, but it was 80, it was 80,000 pounds. So we lifted it. We loaded it on a trailer and it went to his yard. This whole time, I just thought it was, we get those all the time, you know, 'cause it didn't break or whatever. So that's why they needed it lifted and set. And then in talking to him, it was a repo, a voluntary repo. Okay. And then we just started talking. I was like, I didn't know you could repo this. He's like, yeah, dude, I could repo anything. I'm this, that this is my truck. And we were talking and I was like, this kind of is interesting. I started a podcast. Would you like to be on it? And I think I had Alex ask him, 'cause we did that job like on a Friday. He asked some Friday evening and he's like, yeah, can I do it now? Like he was down like crazy. I was like, that's too soon. We got to. He was referred to me by somebody before we were finished talking today. I'll think of it, but he was a. He actually knew Omar. It was Omar, the guy who served him in the car. So his yard is literally next to Omar. I'm more tight now. He remembered me and called over here. He's like, hey, I used to work for Omar. And I was like, who is this guy, right? Yeah. That's how we started chopping it up and that's how the job came about. Somebody else that referred him to, but he was a really good referral. You pointed it out right. He's great guy to work with. Yeah. And I hadn't come across him before. Yeah. For being a repo guy, he knows about like rigging. He watched my stuff about like synthetics and working on load limits. I was like, but your repo, that's pretty cool. He knows the stuff. Sure. Yeah. And I lose track of, you know, when I'm thinking repo, I go, you know, I'm thinking of, you know, those small trucks go pick up his cars. No cars cars. No, they don't. They repo all kinds of big. This guy repo's truck to trailers. Yeah. Yeah. And equipment. Equipment to the generators for Cliffs. You name it. Do it. That's crazy. I asked him like, he's like, name anything I've, I've repoed. I was like, how about a printer? He's like, yeah, I've done office printers like the big ones. I'll bet. He's like, if you could buy it, I could repo it. And it makes sense because I mean besides trucks, you can default on anything. Yeah. I think it was friendly with Lewis Sharples at it. He actually, that's actually one of his good buddies. That's who might have given me that initial introduction. I didn't realize he was Omar's pal, but all those people, that group of people know each other. Yeah, they all know he used to work for United. Yeah, United. That was when I met Andrew. Yeah, I worked for Greg. Well, Lewis Sharples did. Yeah. I think he left. And then that's when he started his company and he had the two trucks, I believe, you know, I think now he still has that red truck, right? I just, I took it on trade, sold him another one for Lewis. Oh, okay. Yeah, I actually met Lewis. Yeah. And then he was in the 80, 80, 89, he used to work for Cal's towing up in Yuccaipa. Okay. And the original Cal was one of my very first customers and he was a big Vulcan fan. And Lewis was there as he was like Lewis a little younger than I am. And I lost track of him for a lot for a lot of years. Anyways, and then he found him, you know, he found his way to the, you into the heavy duty business. He became a pretty key figure there. So I've been lucky enough to work with him here recently. - Yeah, those guys go way back, man. At the substance, he trippets a small world, you know? - Yeah, he was a wonderful guy. He came from, like I said, Cal spawned a number of really, you know, good companies. His son Gary passed away from COVID, ran Cal's for years after it's now run by NOAA. And then he had a brother named Tony. And Tony ran club towing service, CTS, they were club towing service. And they were another very good entity. And they ran Mentone and up into Big Bear. So there was a whole group of them that came out of Cal's that were, you know, surfaced as professionals and did their own thing. - Right, I know you got SoulCal on lockdown. But how far-- - We tried. - I was wondering, like, how far really is your reach? And I asked because obviously what are positioning? You know, we know Toeers from all across the world. - Sure. - I have a buddy who came down and visited and we're friends now. His name's, they're from Chacone towing, not a Texas. And they were interested in a rotator when we were selling the black and red one, Dave's one. And I had mentioned, I don't know how Toeers got brought up, but he had mentioned Toe Industries. And I was like, bro, you're in Texas. - Yeah. Yeah. You get out of state people? - Yeah, we get seen the same way you do now, right? Before the advent of the internet, you know, it was a local, it was more of a local scene. And if you advertise heavily in the magazines, you got seen, or advertising now, it is online, which takes us everywhere. So the online-- - Well, that's right. Like Facebook Marketplace and all that. - It's in the US everywhere, right? And podcasts and, you know, your videos, your YouTube videos, right? And you've been kind enough to shout us out. - Go on live stream that you yard a couple of times when you guys-- - All those things are like, we're very, I'm very appreciative. You know, those things give us exposure. - We make it through. - So yeah, so they hear things, see? Like, you know, Toe Industries, let's Google them and check it out. So it's a lot of that's, there's a lot of word about the mouth of this business, right? And it's one of those businesses for sure that you want to do it right the first time, you know, when you're serving somebody, because it's a really tight circle of somebody leaves - You sound like my dad, man. He has that same, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression. - It doesn't go right. - They were burned out of the same business. - There's a problem. And, you know, it's always a challenge with some of the used equipment, right? Because it's not always perfect when it leaves. And that's probably the area where we have, you know, if there was-- - I don't like anything used though, yeah. - It's just a tough sale because you're very sympathetic to somebody who buys something. He has expectations and what doesn't perform the way he likes. You know, you're always trying your best without, you know, you've got to, you can't be losing money on this day, you know, each and every time. You just hope that a guy gets what he paid for and he's happy with what he bought at the end of the day. So getting back to your question, you know, I have sold, you know, we selled outside market that I've sold, you know, a handful of trucks to China. - China? - Yeah, I did a big order for, for when I first moved here in the late 80s, I sold 110 trucks to Taiwan. - Oh, so I probably didn't retire off that just once. (laughing) - I thought I would because they promised me more. And then they stopped about as fast as they started, you know, we had three months worth. We built a bunch of them and then they copied them and we just never saw them again. - Oh, that's what I figured. You know what, you know what, it's funny, you say that because there's a guy that I see on Facebook. - It looks exactly like a Miller product. - Yeah, like off stuff. - Yeah, so I figured like these guys probably buy on copyum and then just, and you know, they make them. - I got a good story on one that I'll try and make it brief. There was one of our local tours, you know, our respected tour had found some used equipment. They were 25 ton, 35 ton, Brecker units that were Vulcans. And he contacted me to see if I might be interested in buying them. And I said, you know, what year is this equipment? And he said, oh, they're O2's. I said, okay, I said, you know, send me pictures of this stuff. So he sent me pictures of these units and they were all orange. But I looked back and I said, you know, I had an order in O2 for about that many. I had 10 orange. I didn't know they were orange. So I called back the factory because they were built at Miller and they got shipped out of North Carolina and they went to Nigeria originally. So I called my Miller representative. He was Vulcan representative, Brent Mornahens and he what color were those trucks? And I couldn't remember what color they were. They never came to toe industries. They were sold direct out of the factory. So what color were those units that went over to Nigeria? He says they were orange. And now it's 2024 or 2025 and here are these O2's. So I asked the customer, I said, you know, are these units, they weren't on the trucks anymore. I said, how did they get back here? He said, well, I bought them in, I think he said, I bought them in Lebanon. Oh wow. He said, yeah, somehow these truck, the unit, I don't know if the trucks complete made it from Nigeria to Lebanon and he bought them there at a discount and thought he'd bring them back and then try and resell them and use them here. So they did a full circle around the world. I mean, circle of life. Probably, if I remember right, it was a total of, it was out of 10 or 15 units. Anyway, this customer had had 10 of them and he was going to, or eight of them. He bought them as a bundle without the trucks and he was going to use a few for himself and have me market the rest of them. You know, it was outdated equipment. So the question is, did you buy them though? I didn't buy them because he thought they were, you know, he probably, he thought they were worth a little bit more than I, than I thought they, but the time I took them off and put them, how to use piece of equipment, put it on a truck, I didn't think it was going to be a price competitive thing, but for an end user who had a body and might have had a truck and paired it up, I think there was probably a lot of them. Did you ever tell them like, bro, I sold those originally. I did. Oh, that's awesome, man. I said, I know exactly which trucks they were. I even remember the guy's name. He was an English trader. His name was Oliver Slatton. 22 years later, and you remember that. Yeah, I remember him for sure. That's a good idea too. Yeah, he had me right, probably 300 quotes to get that deal, right? Every, he was a broker. So he would have me price it one way. And then we, oh, no, we got to change this. Oh, we got to change that. I must have given him 300 runs at it before he said, hey, I think we're ready to go. Oh, wow. And, you know, that Taiwan order had taught me, you know, if you stay persistent on those, on those export orders, it could take a long time. But they might run a lot of quotes, and your chances are, you know, I won't put a number to it. But let's say it's one in 50 of it, of it really coming to transpire. But you're never, it's like a lottery ticket. Yeah. You might win. So since you and my dad are the same age, same birthday, I already know the answer to this. My dad are ready when he was on the podcast, said, he's going to freaking die in his office, right? He will not retire. I could, I could, that I, I doubled the business. I could do whatever he won't retire. What's the future like for toe industries with, you know, you behind the wheel still? Do you? Well, I can answer that twofold, right? I know he likes working with you. So, you know, my, and I've worked with my daughter. And I've got team players over there. You know, I have another, another gal, Jessica that's worked with me for 20 plus years. I met my, you know, my wife there. You know, we are a family similarly, you know, similar to the way that you're a family. But importantly, my daughter, Tori, you know, who's, you know, my blood daughter is in this business. And to work with her is, is a highlight most days. And, you know, I know that your dad gets a lot of joy out of seeing, you know, the most days. Most days. Most days. You know, in seeing, you know, what's been created, continue on. And, you know, to, to sell it or to get out of it. For a guy who's committed his life to it, I just know that his interest in seeing your, your name and this, and this business, the Pepe's name, you know, and I know your, your dad's brother, Manny as well, who runs a very, the other successful piece of the, of the Pepe's towing group. These guys that are, you know, are committed to this business. Joe, your father's especially on the toe side, right? On the equipment side. And he has a real interest in making sure that, that the name and the business, you know, carries forward. He's lucky to have, you know, I feel lucky that, you know, my, my kid wants to do it and, and I know he feels the same way. So that's one of the reasons why you stay at it is you, you really, you know, genuinely, yeah, you want to give them the, you know, whatever heads up you can regarding, hey, I've learned a few things. Please try and make use of it. And if it's anything like me, I'm getting a lot out of watching some younger minds look at this thing and go, you know, think we can do things a little differently and better. Technology's changed and I've got something to add here. It's all like dustbin. You know, it feels the same way about you. You know, I've done a good job of it, but, you know, I recognize, you know, what my age is and what, you know, and where I'm falling a little bit behind on, on, on fresh knowledge, energy, all the rest. And, and you bring that to the table. The younger group brings it, you as well, Alex, the younger group brings that to these businesses. So if you're awake in my opinion, right? Recognize those things that you, that you do know well. And try and, you know, present that to, without being the, the older guy looking down, it's, it's, hey, you know, I've learned a few things along the way. And just, you know, I'm not trying to give you, give you a beating over this, but some things I'm pretty, I know I'm right on. So try and, now, what have you got? And we have that kind of atmosphere in our office where, you know, I'm listening. And I'm watching changes that, I go, "Yeah, that is better than the way I did it before." And it really brings you some, it call it some, some satisfaction in knowing the, the next, there is a next group. And they do know what they're doing. And I'm not exactly exactly what you did, but it's, they've got something to offer and it will continue. And I know Joe feels that way. Like, like that right there, you know, you guys all use chain, right? And then Alex and I come and I'm a huge proponent of synthetic and it's spread like wildfire. Now everyone's using the synthetics and the sleans and I'm pushing that. And it's fun to watch. It's, you know, I worked with my father and I know that, you know, you know, your father worked with his. So I'm second gen, so to speak, even though, you know, like Joe, they were much smaller entities and they had a much shorter run. You know, Joe and Mani were the guys that really escalated the business. I got to say my father and I did a lot of it together and my crew, you know, our guide Miguel and and Bertha and Joe and our whole group, right? And Jessica, so the next group really threw it forward. And you know, here we are third, you know, this next generation that I've got a lot of faith is going to take it to that next level again. That's awesome, man. Well, I hope the next time we talk is with that 85 time man. We're approaching on one hour mark. So anything work to love working for you guys. If anyone watching this is interested, like, Hey, I, you know, I need a trucker this and that. How can people contact to industries, you know, yeah, you get a hold of me. Well, if it's, uh, I'm not not your soul phone, but like, I'm pretty good with that too. They just Google toe industries. If you Google toe industries are, you know, I call the main line the 3 2 3 6 6 0 4 8 6 6 and I'll very quickly get you a cell phone. I'm pretty liberal with talking to just about anybody. And if he's good enough for all our trucks, I mean, he's good enough for anybody watching it. Pretty high praise. You know, I'm out of it. I've got to, I've got to fight to keep up. It's very great talking to you, buddy. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. Yeah, good to see you out. Got you guys next time on Behind the Boom.