Marilyn's Funeral | "Don't Let Me Keep You" (604)

this is a head gum podcast on today's episode of that was us we're diving into season six episode four don't let me keep you as jack returns home from his mother's funeral he discovers a side of maryland's life he never knew through memory spanning decades the episode explores how the people we love continue to shape us long after we leave home and how it's never too late to see someone in a new light this episode is brought to you by netflix's new series east of eden a bold reimagining of john steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the trask family through love betrayal and the choices that shape humanity starring mike feist and christopher abbott as the trask brothers and florence pew as kathy ames the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants no matter the cost watch east of eden now only on netflix fall never arrives all at once burst the air then the light and slowly the things you love begin to find each other a jacket meets a dress a hoodie slips beneath a blazer an old cap finds a new scarf because you don't simply step into the season you create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall find fall your way at ross what's going on gang hello hello how you guys doing yeah good well how are you i'm doing i'm doing quite well i i um i love this episode i really do i and there's not many episodes that that that randall's not in but randall's not in this one at all you got a nice little break got a nice little break and and uh my man vince amelia put in some work it's it's a beautiful episode it's a really gorgeous it's a very quiet episode right uh jessica you uh was the director of this episode and she did a fantastic job yeah i think this was her second one oh i know she directed before she may have done two or three yeah yeah but this was you know probably her last one of the season slash series yeah i think this is her second one i think this is her second one i think this is her second one it was just such a quiet meditative sort of recollection of a life yeah and sort of your relationship to that life yeah reconciling no getting to know someone after they've gone yeah and jack grappling with his the perception he had of his mom yeah and the distance and disconnect they had and who he blamed that disconnect on and the you know anger he had at himself for not being able to sort of overcome that before she was gone yeah thinking that time is endless yeah and they would eventually go visit her and ice skate on that frozen pond by her house that she wanted to you know she wanted the kids to come and visit and do that and it's just like yeah life sometimes takes an unexpected turn and watching him and watching him sort of put together the pieces of this woman he didn't know later in life he just sort of relegated his mom to a memory of a sad woman who got out of an abusive situation but lived a quiet sad life in a corner of ohio and he didn't really know much more yeah to her than that yeah um and to see the shape that her life took the the color it was infused with by going and help prepare whatever the services were to her and to see the shape that her life took the color it was infused with by going and help prepare whatever the services whatever the services were to her and to see the shape that her life took the the color it was infused with by going and help prepare whatever the services were to her and to see the shape that her life took the the color it was infused with by going and help prepare whatever the services were going to be for her um meeting with her were going to be for her um meeting with her were going to be for her um meeting with her cousin debbie that she lived with meeting cousin debbie that she lived with meeting cousin debbie that she lived with meeting with her with her with her boyfriend like you know we i love you said boyfriend like you know we i love you said boyfriend like you know we i love you said quietly well i'm like we'll get to that but quietly well i'm like we'll get to that but quietly well i'm like we'll get to that but like but watching this story sort of like but watching this story sort of like but watching this story sort of unfold and come to fruition and come to unfold and come to fruition and come to unfold and come to fruition and come to life in a way that really surprised jack life in a way that really surprised jack life in a way that really surprised jack and watching and watching and watching milo as an actor sort of like milo as an actor sort of like milo as an actor sort of like fill in all of that was really fill in all of that was really fill in all of that was really beautiful gorgeous yeah quite quite beautiful gorgeous yeah quite quite beautiful gorgeous yeah quite quite gorgeous and it it sort of brings to gorgeous and it it sort of brings to gorgeous and it it sort of brings to mind this question i wanted to ask you mind this question i wanted to ask you mind this question i wanted to ask you guys before we get into the heart of the guys before we get into the heart of the guys before we get into the heart of the episode episode episode and this question is and this question is do you think it is possible do you think it is possible do you think it is possible yes or no i'm not leading i'm asking yes or no i'm not leading i'm asking yes or no i'm not leading i'm asking for children to love their parents as for children to love their parents as for children to love their parents as much as their parents love their much as their parents love their much as their parents love their children do i think it's possible children do i think it's possible children do i think it's possible yeah yes yes do i think it is yeah yes yes do i think it is yeah yes yes do i think it is common right common right common right no no no yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but it doesn't dawn onto you i've but it doesn't dawn onto you i've witnessed those relationships yeah where it's like a a true like partnership friendship right equal love equal respect yeah you know between child and parents yeah yeah but that takes i think that takes a really evolved parent sure from the get sure to to nurture that type of relationship to to to nurture a relationship to where the child is able to love them as much as the parent loves and see them and see them authentically that's interesting and experience them as a full human being yeah what do you what's your take i don't know i mean being a parent it does hit you in a different way like oh my gosh i like i would hope that my child would love me as much as i love them so impossibly um but it doesn't seem possible it is so like i feel like sterling kelby brown and arlene brown had something pretty special i think we had something pretty special because she was a little bit of an older mom when she had me and so she wasn't sort of delusional she had three kids back back back right and then she had me so there was really just sort of keeping your head above water young growing up like it was a a young woman raising children right versus like an adult woman raising a child right and so like there are these moments i remember in college where i would come home after kicking it with friends in the neighborhood or whatnot come home one o'clock 1 30 etc and i thought i was about to go lay down and arlene would walk down the stairs and she's like hey what you doing i was like huh i was about to go to sleep and she's like what would you do tonight we talked for like three or four hours bro like she's like i'm gonna get my time and you know what i was like no i'm gonna get my time like both of us yeah we're like overjoyed to like have moments to just be with each other that's wonderful wow which is really really cool so i i may come close but in having these children man yeah i was like you can't love me the way i love you dog you know what i'm saying like i'm like like i i had the skin in the game of like i have called you forth into being like i asked ryan and i said like we should we should bring people right we need more people yeah you know what i mean it's like like it was for us like it was like i asked for you to be here and i can remember you i helped create i helped create you right you used to live in my balls dog like this is like this this whole thing that's from chappelle i took that from yeah um but it is like there are two people who can't do it in the very beginning especially what you guys can't do and we're basically like each and every time so i'll do that for you yeah i got you you can't do it come on i got you yeah oh yeah i i got it i'm happy to do it i'm really excited watch this and then one day you start going like okay i'm doing it and now look watch watch that what daddy did and like you want to try it and then they do it and you're like oh you see what just happened you did it big boy you did it like the joy of seeing your child go from huh to aha yeah yeah possibly hit them the same you know what i'm saying the other way around yeah right that's what i mean it's like it just doesn't seem possible for them to love like it doesn't that's not how the relationship functions right yeah in theory yeah i mean for 18 years it's one side it's not completely one-sided because like my wife is about to have a birthday and i have to go to the 15 year old and a 10 year old i said hey your mom's gonna have a birthday so you guys have to you have to get her card you have to be think be thoughtful and get her a gift something she's really gonna get and i'm gonna take you to help you go get it or whatnot but i need you to start thinking about what do you think mommy's gonna get so that it doesn't stay one-sided forever that you start thinking about that other person realize oh she has wants and needs and desires and things that make her happy it's not just about my own happiness right so that's part of our job sure but for like 12 years it's just like okay yeah yeah yeah um that's what i mean this episode just made me think about this and because i think jack is a great son and he did his mother a great service yeah and taking her out of that environment so that she could be the fullness of herself sure right right he never got a chance to be in the same space yeah i think the roles were were traumatic inverted from the beginning yeah because of because of the the violence of his father sure who put who put now puts him in a position that he should never have to be in as a child for his mother removing her from the house yeah you know and quote unquote saving her from that marriage and moving her out and and so the the the i think the my reaction to the episode on a whole was like different now being being a father in a way where i'm like i aside aside from the the physical abuse from from the father i blame nobody yeah for anything that they have done here i feel you like jack's behavior jack's the way he takes the phone calls the his avoidance of visiting like like it all makes sense it all for as much for as much pain as there is there doesn't seem to be anyone to blame for that portion for that portion of it you know what i mean i don't disagree but i have a slight pushback and that pushback is if you've committed to a call at a certain time a week yeah your ability to not just take the call but to be present for it right now listen also you Yup what you're saying i got three yeah babies yeah all the same age and they're going crazy my wife's trying to do the best she can i got i'm trying to support etc but i'm thinking like if i say i'm going to do this thing you have to recognize now see and it's easier to recognize as a parent too right it's like she's looking forward to this call you know what i mean in such a way that like if you go like all right i love you boom like it's ending before it even gets a chance to get started sure and that way and so that's my gentle and and my and my yes i see what you're talking about but the thing that i also didn't realize the first time i saw it that i realized this time was that because of the trauma the abuse that she was put through she kept things from jack yeah about her life yeah that maybe she thought he wouldn't want to know yeah and the and most of the things she kept from him was her new found happiness yeah i i actually really like it here i have a boyfriend i have a cat i like we go out we have good time we have but because of the nature of their relationship the phone rings yeah the confines of their relationship existed the phone and it's small and it's hey you know and it's not it's not a phone call he looks forward to it's not there's there's nothing there's no hope yeah because because it's not that's not the precedent that was ever set right yeah and and and because of the nature of their relationship she maybe doesn't want to show him the fullness of her her life which was was a a robbery of sorts yeah you know like it seemed to me that once jack went there and saw her life and saw her friends and saw her lovely boyfriend and saw like oh well yeah the kids and i and and and rebecca would have loved yeah and and rebecca would have loved sure to have visited this i think that's the big sure to have visited this i think that's the big sure to have visited this i think that's the big tragedy because to your point yeah the only time tragedy because to your point yeah the only time tragedy because to your point yeah the only time she came home the trauma of being in the same she came home the trauma of being in the same she came home the trauma of being in the same city as dude which is sort of like she reverted city as dude which is sort of like she reverted city as dude which is sort of like she reverted back to large she was like does he know i'm here back to large she was like does he know i'm here back to large she was like does he know i'm here you know what i'm saying see me did you tell him you know what i'm saying see me did you tell him you know what i'm saying see me did you tell him like i think the great sadness on jack's part is like i think the great sadness on jack's part is like i think the great sadness on jack's part is like ah if i came to where she was with these like ah if i came to where she was with these like ah if i came to where she was with these kids and she's asking and like i i see the ice skates kids and she's asking and like i i see the ice skates and she asked and i came up with all these and she asked and i came up with all these and she asked and i came up with all these reasons for why it was too hard and too reasons for why it was too hard and too reasons for why it was too hard and too difficult etc difficult etc difficult etc it definitely makes you think bro yeah like it definitely makes you think bro yeah like it definitely makes you think bro yeah like just take the trip take the make it just take the trip take the make it just take the trip take the make it take the trip make the time yeah yeah take the trip take the time yeah yeah take the trip take the time yeah yeah yeah who are you gonna start it go for it yeah who are you gonna start it go for it yeah who are you gonna start it go for it yeah we see this like yeah we see this like yeah we see this like this little version of jack right and a this little version of jack right and a this little version of jack right and a sled on a snowy hill and he's pulling sled on a snowy hill and he's pulling sled on a snowy hill and he's pulling the sled and he's trying to get down the the sled and he's trying to get down the the sled and he's trying to get down the hill and the sled breaks right and he hill and the sled breaks right and he hill and the sled breaks right and he goes in and he brings it to his he like goes in and he brings it to his he like goes in and he brings it to his he like shows it to his mom and his mom's like shows it to his mom and his mom's like shows it to his mom and his mom's like you know i'll cover for you i'll buy you you know i'll cover for you i'll buy you you know i'll cover for you i'll buy you a new sled we're not going to tell your a new sled we're not going to tell your a new sled we're not going to tell your dad about it and you just see their dad about it and you just see their dad about it and you just see their relationship right and it kind of ends relationship right and it kind of ends relationship right and it kind of ends with with with um him like her bringing him in um him like her bringing him in um him like her bringing him in caregiving warming him up and saying like caregiving warming him up and saying like caregiving warming him up and saying like i'm gonna make your favorite lunch let i'm gonna make your favorite lunch let i'm gonna make your favorite lunch let me get your your tomato soup and your me get your your tomato soup and your me get your your tomato soup and your hot dogs hot dogs hot dogs and i think this was just to sort of and i think this was just to sort of and i think this was just to sort of reflect reflect reflect this overall relationship of like this overall relationship of like this overall relationship of like you know jack really we see jack taking you know jack really we see jack taking you know jack really we see jack taking care of her a lot throughout the care of her a lot throughout the care of her a lot throughout the entirety of this series entirety of this series entirety of this series and it was just nice to see and it was just nice to see and it was just nice to see in this moment of in this moment of in this moment of i'm sure just jack looking back on his i'm sure just jack looking back on his i'm sure just jack looking back on his life like his mom really cared for him life like his mom really cared for him life like his mom really cared for him too right and he couldn't remember it he too right and he couldn't remember it he too right and he couldn't remember it he couldn't remember it you know yeah yeah couldn't remember it you know yeah yeah couldn't remember it you know yeah yeah he couldn't remember it for most of the he couldn't remember it for most of the episode yeah yeah yeah episode yeah yeah yeah episode yeah yeah yeah until he did and then he was able to share until he did and then he was able to share until he did and then he was able to share it with his children which we'll get it with his children which we'll get it with his children which we'll get to yeah but it kind of opens up you know to yeah but it kind of opens up you know to yeah but it kind of opens up you know most of the story is still is told most of the story is still is told most of the story is still is told present day right so jack is looking for present day right so jack is looking for present day right so jack is looking for a black suit a black suit a black suit rebecca's like we have gray we've gray rebecca's like we have gray we've gray here and he's like no it's my mom's funeral it has to be black like very matter of fact doesn't matter if we i have to go buy one yeah i need a black suit i'm not showing up in a seersucker for mom's funeral yeah and he just kind of confides in her like this doesn't seem real which i'm sure you know knock on wood i haven't experienced this yet um that losing a parent it must just be surreal like wow you're floating through space yeah um we find out that the that rebecca and the kids are not going and she you know rebecca sort of insists like are you sure the weather's not great like it's a four-hour drive we're totally willing to come with you it's your mom's funeral and he just kind of brushes it off like the kids didn't even really know her it's a long drive do we really want to try to like you know get the kids all packed up and get in the car like let me just go let me do what i have to do head down basically like perfunctory right like let me check all the boxes and then i'm going to come home you know this will lead to where is the second car or how did you get there good question yeah yeah yeah yeah continue continue no no you're not wrong you're not wrong just suspend disbelief right yeah we'll be right back with more that was this episode is brought to you by netflix's new series east of eden a bold reimagining of john steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the trask family through love betrayal and the choices that shape humanity starring mike feist and christopher abbott as the trask brothers and florence pew as kathy ames the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants no matter the cost watch east of eden now only on netflix at zocdoc we know you care about your health you wouldn't do that early morning cardio if you didn't so the fact that your annual physical is overdue just shows how hard it can be to get seen by a doctor sorry that doctor's not a network press one for more options you've reached us outside normal business hours the next availability is in three months but zocdoc makes finding the right doctor easy download the app and search by specialty insurance and availability read real patient reviews then book instantly zocdoc ready to be seen this episode is brought to you by netflix's new series east of eden a bold reimagining of john steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the trask family through love betrayal and the choices that shape humanity starring mike feist and christopher abbott as the trask brothers and florence pew as kathy ames the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants no matter the cost watch east of eden now only on netflix the kids are not phased by the way that like they come in like talking in the kitchen about like grandma's dead she's dead right your mom died i don't say that can i like side note this please are you at the you have you passed the phase yet where was barrett ever just like fascinated with all things like who's alive and who's dead did you guys ever get yes the problem with yeah we're still in it okay we're in it very deep in it right we're in it right now that is the only question gus wants to know and and it all started with with me like when i started introducing him to music yeah i was like yeah yeah i was like here's here's prince here's david bowie dead yeah is he dead yeah he's also alive nope also dead my favorite sorry i gotta start introducing you to some musicians who are living oh no that is no yeah bowie died like recently no like like a decade ago yeah i know man yeah yeah it's a sad one he was young prince too i knew that well but it's my gus is just like that is his only prerequisite when we're listening to something if it's someone he doesn't know that's the first question he asks if he sees a picture of someone is she dead i'm like jesus my favorite thing was recently though he's like hey dad because he loves the beatles he's like dad your favorites are john and george huh and taylor's like yeah you know and he's like well i like paul and ringo hey why don't we pretend that ringo and paul are dead and john and george are alive dad let's do that and dad and taylor's like no bud like we don't have to pretend anyone's dead like we can pretend your favorites are alive yeah yeah yeah totally we can just pretend and he was telling me that the other day he's like mama i'm so happy because paul's still alive and i love paul and paul's my favorite i was like okay bud like and you just and you just say at least it's not ringo yeah poor ringo go um but yeah so so watching the kids in this episode talk about like mom's dead yeah like just so cavalier yeah like it's just a fascinating yeah nonchalant sort of concept to them like anyway can we go out and play in the snow yeah like just moving ahead yeah i mean i haven't experienced a lot of of death in my life but i remember being a young boy and and the woman who raised my dad my great aunt my dad's aunt yeah when she passed and going to a funeral for the first time and and crying because adults were crying but not crying because you yeah because i understood like what was happening and then there was a party after and i'm like okay there's a part okay so what is this yeah what is this thing there's a party after the wake yeah there's a party there's a party what are we doing here and you know this woman who i'd met maybe a handful of times you know i i must have been six years old when she passed you know and she had a tracheotomy and i think still smoked oh like yeah it was like wow i yeah probably um but yeah and then and then i remember it was also an open casket oh at a catholic good at a catholic cathedral in the bay area and and we walked by and and this was gone the tracheotomy oh they had like patched it and i was like and and in my head i'm like oh well wait wait maybe she can wait no but the thing is if if it's but you know in my brain yeah yeah you know a miracle has happened it's just yeah it's an odd it's an odd thing and i guess it's it's what the age of innocence is seven right this is as far as the philosophical idea of those things go and it's where the the the human brain can truly understand the nature of i i for lack of a yeah for lack of a better yeah summation because up and up until then it's it's you know our next i told you last time our next neighbor passed away yeah judson judson's dead he died so he's where is he in the ground i don't i don't i don't know i don't know buddy um uh and you just don't want him to be like talking about it too loud in the backyard where judson's family judson's wife can hear the fence you know like um so yeah but i also don't ever want to i kind of make it like it yeah yeah like yeah yeah yeah bud it is died yeah he was very he died from being sick well he was just used yes in a way like it's i don't know it's hard to explain but yeah the the delivery of the children in this show if like yeah yeah dad's mom died yeah only randall was like don't say that he's like that's true he's dead she died she died died dead died dead right yeah right i'm saying he's like that's yeah but yeah my mother's uh passed on yeah um so he goes he goes she was staying with her cousin deborah yeah living living with her living yeah yeah yeah and played by the incomparable cameron manheim fellow tv legend fellow nyu grad school she's so rad can i just like side note yeah i loved being around her she is like one of those people who is so familiar yeah like you know what i mean in the best way like so comfortable in her skin comfortable with who she is she's lived a million lives she knows how fucking badass she is like i just soaked up every second of being around her and i just had one tiny little scene but i was like oh you like you would be fun to work with long term she was one of those people where i picked up on that yeah like oh you're a fun friend she loves she's a great mom she like talks so glowingly about her son her son's kind of the mom yeah her son's really cool he's pretty dope yeah but um but it was like even before he was like really working like she just was a mom and um yeah i was i just i loved being around her and she is so warm and gregarious and open like watching this like she was she slapped on some tude she had some real like she gave it to jack like nobody oh yeah feelings yeah about him yeah yeah and i love that like she wasn't you know welcoming him with open arms it was she was discerning and um like i got it uh like i handled it yeah we i knew i knew marilyn yeah and what she loved and like i got it yeah you don't need to waltz in here and handle you don't need to waltz in here and handle you don't need to waltz in here and handle you don't need to waltz in here and handle the services i own a flower shop like the services i own a flower shop like the services i own a flower shop like we quickly got a real lay of the land we quickly got a real lay of the land we quickly got a real lay of the land from her from her from her um the thing that tinges all of it is um the thing that tinges all of it is um the thing that tinges all of it is like like like where were you like you show up now where were you like you show up now where were you like you show up now now right where she's been here for was now right where she's been here for was now right where she's been here for was 13 years 13 years 13 years and now you you're here like that's the and now you you're here like that's the and now you you're here like that's the sort of under belly took you long enough sort of under belly took you long enough sort of under belly took you long enough right right right the fact that this one's probably like the fact that this one's probably like the fact that this one's probably like because we learned from the boyfriend i because we learned from the boyfriend i because we learned from the boyfriend i don't want you to go ahead yeah keep don't want you to go ahead yeah keep don't want you to go ahead yeah keep going well he basically is like like i'm going well he basically is like like i'm going well he basically is like like i'm got it but like i am here to help plan got it but like i am here to help plan got it but like i am here to help plan the service and she's like no it's all the service and she's like no it's all the service and she's like no it's all done and he's like oh well thank you done and he's like oh well thank you done and he's like oh well thank you she's like i didn't do it your mom did she's like i didn't do it your mom did she's like i didn't do it your mom did it yeah you could see that hit jack that it yeah you could see that hit jack that it yeah you could see that hit jack that information like my mom information like my mom information like my mom planned all of this it's like yeah why planned all of this it's like yeah why planned all of this it's like yeah why is that news to you like this is who is that news to you like this is who is that news to you like this is who your mom was your mom was your mom was yeah and um if you really want to get yeah and um if you really want to get yeah and um if you really want to get into like brass tacks into like brass tacks into like brass tacks i i own a flower shop so obviously i'm i i own a flower shop so obviously i'm i i own a flower shop so obviously i'm gonna handle all the flowers gonna handle all the flowers gonna handle all the flowers and um i'm gonna read a poem because i and um i'm gonna read a poem because i and um i'm gonna read a poem because i you know i like poetry she loved poetry you know i like poetry she loved poetry you know i like poetry she loved poetry she wanted me to write more poetry and she wanted me to write more poetry and she wanted me to write more poetry and he was like he was like he was like what my mom liked poetry like who was what my mom liked poetry like who was what my mom liked poetry like who was this person yeah and again it's just this person yeah and again it's just this person yeah and again it's just like more information and kind of like more information and kind of like more information and kind of watching watching watching debbie like cat boyfriend debbie like cat boyfriend debbie like cat boyfriend yeah yeah yeah so there's a yeah yeah yeah so there's a yeah yeah yeah so there's a we're learning all it's like wow this we're learning all it's like wow this we're learning all it's like wow this woman had a woman had a woman had a very full life here yeah very full life here yeah very full life here yeah and she had this this cute little cat and she had this this cute little cat and she had this this cute little cat she had a boyfriend mike so anyway he she had a boyfriend mike so anyway he she had a boyfriend mike so anyway he was on the street you'll see his van down was on the street you'll see his van down was on the street you'll see his van down the road and he's like mike is the road and he's like mike is the road and he's like mike is yeah your mom's boyfriend like wow you yeah your mom's boyfriend like wow you yeah your mom's boyfriend like wow you really know nothing about her yeah she really know nothing about her yeah she really know nothing about her yeah she just like continues to be more and more just like continues to be more and more just like continues to be more and more disgusted with him she said before he disgusted with him she said before he disgusted with him she said before he takes a cat back she said there's one takes a cat back she said there's one takes a cat back she said there's one thing you can be responsible for You can do the eulogy. I think he can pick out a dress for her to be in. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You can do the eulogy. You can do that and you can do the eulogy. He's like, all right, I can do that. Right? So, picks up the cat. By the way, be very tough for Brown. Allergic to cats. Oh. Very, very allergic to cats. Okay, well, don't ever come over to our house. I know, I know. I have to take like a something. Claritin. Claritin before I come over to the crib. But he just picks up, the cat goes over. And we meet Mike. What's Mike's name? Jim Cody Williams. Hey man, let me tell you. Jim Cody Williams, crushed it. My man stuck his foot in this shit. Yeah, he did. Out of nowhere. He's great. I mean. He was so warm, so inviting, so quirky, but just lovely. Yep. He didn't look anything like Stanley. Nope. You know what I mean? And like, shout out to Josh for casting or whatnot. Like, he killed it. And Jim Cody, you know, you don't grow that beard overnight. No, you don't. Jim Cody. You've been living with that one. Lives that life. That is a lifestyle that I respect. Yeah, that is a choice. Massively. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, there was such a like, immediate warmth to him. And a heartbreak. Yeah. All, there were so many colors there. When he opens the door and meets Jack, he's nervous. He's, you know, in the midst of just abject grief. And he's not just nervous, he's honest about it. Yeah. Which is. Sorry, man, I'm nervous. So unique. Sorry, I'm nervous. He just hits him with that hug. Yeah. Did the violin hit him? Okay. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah. And he's literally the exact opposite of every single thing about Stan's body. Stan's dead. Absolutely. There's also, what did we learn? Your mom talked about you and the kids all the time. That was what I was going to say before. So he's entering into it with a level of familiarity to Jack that Jack has not had. He asks. Yeah. How are Rebecca and the kids doing? Rebecca and the kids. Yeah. Like, how are they taking the death? What? Yeah. What? And he's like, how do you know my wife and children? Yeah. Yeah. Their existence. Triplets. Wow. How do you, how do you. Yeah. Like, he just. He had it all down. Yeah. Yeah. It's really got to be so confusing to, like, step into a situation where someone knows so much about you and your life. Yeah. And you're not, you're not given the opportunity, you're not afforded the same opportunity. You mean, like, every time you step outside? Yeah. You run into your friends. I mean, yeah. Sterling. Stop. Don't you turn this on me, Amanda Lee. There's a, I was just writing down all the things that he found out. Like, that she had a boyfriend named Mike. Her sense of humor. How she loved to laugh. Yeah. That she liked poetry. And talked about Jack and his family all the time. And that she was happy. Happy. Happy. He never got a chance to know his mom. Happy. He saw some photos of. You know, Mike had some photos of her. And in all of the photos. She's smiling. Big smiling and laughing. Laughter just going back. And Mike's going, that is so Marilyn. That's so Marilyn. And Jack is like. Like, what? What? Yeah, you knew a completely different woman. Yeah. Than I knew. And that I grew up with. They go to the bar. And in Marilyn's honor. Her drink of choice? Seven and seven. What's a seven and seven? Seagram's seven. Yeah. Which is what? Seagram's seven is a whiskey. Whiskey. Okay. It's like a super sweet whiskey. Okay. But you mix it with- Don't you judge her drink! But you mix it with seven up. That sounds so sweet. It sounds like a sugar bomb. And it is. And that's the point. That's the point. And when you drink it, it's like- It'll still get the job done. It's like Sunday morning. Let me tell you. Let me tell you something about- You've got your fair share of seven and seven. Let me tell you something about drinking seven and sevens at casinos way off the strip in Las Vegas. Was a seven and seven a go-to at one point? The first time I sat down at a blackjack table, it was. Really? Yeah, with my fake ID. Seven and sevens for the night. I love it. I love it. I was like, these are free? You're coming! Glad I'm here at the dollar table. Not to go too deep on the- Do you have a drink of choice? Are you just like a wine woman? I will have- I will have a glass of wine. And if I'm going to have a cocktail, which I don't really most of the time, it would be a gin martini. A gin martini. Yeah. Something drier, not sweet. No, not sweet. Yeah. No, no, I'm not a sweet. I like a chocolate chip cookie. I like my sweets sweet. Yeah. Gotcha. But I don't want my alcohol sweet. But not the alcohol. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I find now, I just like, I think like most people, not to go down a rabbit hole, but I'm like, I think I'm like getting closer and closer to not drinking. Giving it up? No. Not giving it up, but just like, I love the occasional glass of wine, but like whenever I've had a cocktail, I'd say in the last like year, I've never been hungover before, but like I do, I'm like, ugh, I just like- Doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good. I went to my buddy's birthday party and there was a lot of like, we went to a whiskey bar and like, you know, this much stuff, like I realized how much of a lightweight I am. And like, it takes a long time to sip through it because the proof of it is probably close to a hundred. Like it's- Whoa. It's intense, man. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I get it. I will have a margarita and I can nurse that margarita pretty much like the whole night. Yeah. And I'm pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was hungover for 16 years. It doesn't feel good, I hear. Yeah. It's awful. Just every time you talk about who you, I wonder, I truly do wonder what it would have been like to have met you. Then. At that point. I mean, it wasn't, don't get me wrong. I was still awesome. I was a good time. No, no, no. I'm sure you were a great time. Oh, boy. I bet you were a great time. The ideas that would come up throughout the course of the night. I'd be like, oh, yeah, let's go do that. That was fun. We went and did things. Yeah. I'm sure you did. Yeah. Yeah. The night that Mandy Moore went out with me and Justin or whatnot. That was fun. It was very, very funny. I had a martini that night. Yeah, you did. Yeah. You did have a martini. That's enough to it. It also felt appropriate. I'm sitting there in costume and age prosthetics. Yes. Rebecca would have a martini, too. For sure. She's a gin martini girl. Let's be real. Copy that. Copy that. So they're sitting there. They're having seven and sevens. Jack joins them at the table. And there's that incredible eternal sunshine shot. Yeah, man. It was a beautiful moment of just watching everybody at the table. And we're circling around the table. And when we come back to where Jack was sitting, instead of Jack being there, it's Marilyn. And she's laughing and being amongst her friends and just enjoying the moment. And it circles back and it's Jack sitting there. Just quiet. Taking it all in. Sort of realizing that, like, oh, my God. Like, there's this whole thing that I just missed. Yeah. Right? Yeah, right in front of me. And he goes home. I think Debra had told, like, he had asked if his dad was coming to the funeral. And she's like, I didn't invite him. Right? So he goes home. And we know Jack is, you know, with alcohol, doesn't always make the best decisions, what have you. Also, I just, like, it's, I appreciate that we, like, showed it. As it is. And I also am so happy that, like, every time somebody gets behind the wheel and they do make it home, I just, like, I just want to highlight, please don't drink and drive. Yeah, don't drink and drive. Don't drink and drive. Right? That's my little PSA for that. He makes it home. He picks up the phone. He calls his dad. And he tells her, like, she's dead, man. You know? And, like, I didn't get, I missed out on so much of who she was. And I blame you for it. Yeah. Right? Like, she was so terrified of you. Like, couldn't come. And visit or what have you. But it's also sort of a way in his drunkenness of excusing himself to a certain extent. Yeah. You know? So he tells him and Stanley's like, you don't, he's like, dude, that was my wife. Like, he was verklempt. He felt it. He wanted to sort of pay his respects. And he's like, don't come to the funeral. He's like, that was my wife. You don't get to tell me what to do. Right? So they sort of leave it at a stalemate, not knowing if he's going to come to the funeral or not. Yeah. He winds up telling Cousin Deb. Like, I told my dad. She's like, come on, man. Like. Yeah. Is he coming? Is he coming? He's like, I don't know. I don't know. So we're at the home going, as we call it in the community. But we're at the funeral. And Jack, you can tell, because Jack calls Rebecca. Yeah. As well. And, oh, because he is finally going to pick out a dress for her to wear. And something catches his eye under the bed. And it's box. And in the box are three pairs of ice skates. That's right. I was going to say Kevin, Kate, and Randall. Yeah. And, you know, she has sort of throughout the episode, we, you know, kind of, we can get into some of the past storylines as well. But throughout the episode, she sort of, you know, told Jack and mentioned a few times that there's this, like, frozen pond. And she really has these dreams of, like, the kids coming to visit. And they can skate on this pond. And, you know, she's gone ahead and bought these ice skates. And they're safe. And they're sitting in a box under her bed. And he calls Rebecca. And it's just basically, like, you know, he has to write a eulogy. He's having a tough time. Like, he has nothing to say. And, you know, so then, yes, we get to the service. Yeah. Debbie's called up to read her poem. And she does. Yep. And then Jack is called up to, you know, eulogize his mother. And as an audience, I'm thinking, what's he going to say? I forget. Yeah. I'm like, I don't remember how this ends. And he seems to have not, like, you know, we've seen him go visit the diner where Mike and his mom met. And he's kind of, like, put himself in these different situations, I think, to try to figure out how to break this spell and start to write something about his mom. And in typical Jack Pearson fashion, he waltzes up to the podium, the lectern, and, you know, talks about the house they grew up in wasn't a happy one. Yeah. Right? But I think he really found his voice when you came in. Yes. When you and the kids surprised him and came into the back of the church and sat down. Yeah, you hear the door open. You're like, oh, is it Stanley? Yeah. Who's showing up? Right. Real quick, this side expectation of is Stanley coming or not, you know, the mistake was made earlier in the episode, by Marilyn, where she tells Jack, I called your dad. Mm-hmm. You know, and it was, and does he know where you live? And this idea of, Jack even says it. He goes, even when you're not here, you're here. Mm-hmm. You know, and this ghost of the possibility of you is even enough to ruin everything. Yeah. You know, I thought, and that was more prevalent for me this time watching than the first time. Where she makes the mistake, he also calls him, and then now the shadow over this whole thing is, is Stanley going to come or not? Mm-hmm. Until Rebecca takes a four-hour cab ride. It's funny, I feel like I did have this very question. You did? To Isaac and Elizabeth, and I don't remember what the answer was. It was like, Miguel. They said, why don't you shut up and do your job? Yeah. Stop asking questions. That's enough questions out of you. Yeah. Walk through the fucking door. It was like, Miguel drove them, lent his car, something. Yeah. I was like, and then they all- Miguel, shut up, Mandy. You're fired. Do you want to be in the episode or not? Shut up before we put on the prosthetics. Yeah. Go on. There was some sort of answer kind of like, you know, given of like- We hadn't thought of that. At the end of it, I don't know. Yeah, someone- It doesn't really matter. Listen, if they're asking that question, well, you haven't done our job sort of situation. There you go. You never heard of a bus? Four hours on the bus. What, you never heard of a bus? She's ridden the bus before. Excuse me, I'm looking for an Afro-American. Yeah, Afro-American. American. So, yeah, Jack admits that the house he grew up in wasn't an easy place to be a son or a mother, but they did their best. And they're really lucky because they got out. Yeah. And, you know, even- Even though a part of you never gets out, like, never escapes that place, and you, if you're lucky, you learn to build a new and better house. And that's when, you know, Rebecca and the kids enter, and I think it gives them the strength to really sort of, like, see the fuller, bigger picture. And, you know, he ends- Appreciating the people that were able to contribute for that better life for his mom. Yes. Because he says, there's four people here, my wife and my three kids, that were able- to make a better life and a better home for me and everybody here. He and Mike and all of her friends and community. Have been able to contribute to create a better life for my mom. And he was very appreciative and grateful for that. And then he finished by saying. Don't let me keep you. Okay, mom. Which is what, yeah. Which is what his mom used to say during their Sunday phone calls every week. Because she could tell that he was trying to get off the phone. He was bothered. He was bothered. Why are you taking my time right now? I have three children that are the same age. It was really beautiful. You know what I hate more is when people, someone on the phone says. Okay, well I'll let you go. As if I have asked to be let go. And I'm like, wait a second. Remind me never to say that. I definitely say that. Do you? I will not say that to you. All right, well, there you go. But it does point to. I don't want to go. You want to go? Maybe. I think that we, as a present society. Real quick, have you heard, have you heard. Peewee Hermans? No, what's he say? Let me, let you, let me go. Let me, let me, let me, let you, let me go. You know what? It's so good. It's good. Anyways, go on. But in earnest to that very comedic take. Like, I think we do have a bit of an attention deficit disorder. Like, as people. And our ability to actually just be with the people that we're with. Is something that we're losing the art of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have computers in our faces all day. It is. Tiny little computers. And I think. That are made to distract us. We forget, like, you know. My brother and I were talking about this the other day. Like, what is the greatest gift that you can give to another human being? And it is your time. But not if it is spent constantly wanting or thinking about doing something else. Right? Absolutely. So, in that time is also your presence. Presence. Presence. Presence. Being a gift. And it was, I don't know, just a good lesson for me. Because, like, even without saying cast the first stone. I'm not throwing stones at people that I wouldn't throw at myself, too. Like, I catch myself being like, oh, I'm not really here. Here, yeah. In this particular moment. I should take a moment and just be here. Yeah. Right? And that the beauty of the end of the episode is that they're at the house. And they're sort of catching up with everybody. And he sees the box of ice skates. And Rebecca clocks him, clocking the skates. And they look at each other. And they're like, yeah. And the kids. That's that moment. The kids get to go out to that lake that is frozen over and skate. With Debbie and Mike. And Mike is so cute with them. He's, like, showing them the little wrestling moves. Mike is like Miguel to my kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, they never really got a chance to know Stanley. In that way. And so, like, they get it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was very, very sweet. We met Mike too late. Because Mike could have been more in the show. He's great. Like, if he had showed up. Yeah. And became, like, Jack's surrogate father or something. Yeah. He's good. And I think this is where Jack, they get home after their long drive. Yeah. And bus ride. And they have, Jack is like, what do you guys want for dinner? And he's like, how about. Wait. What? First. I have to come. I have to comment on the writers doing Kate dirty. In what way? It is so subtle. Everybody walks in the house. I know exactly what you're talking about. And Jack goes. I think I could eat. Jack goes, you guys hungry? And the two boys go, yeah. Yeah. And Kate walks past her and goes, I could eat. And it is so cold to give to the little girl. After everything the god damn show's been through. I didn't even clock that. I totally clocked it. She shrugged. And she got directed perfectly. She goes, I could eat. And it's just like, what? I was like, what the fuck? I missed that. I totally. I clocked that too. I missed it. That's not right. And if it was an improv, they should have used a different one. No, it was not an improv. She got directed. Someone taught her to. Like, it was directed. Oh, my god. She nailed it too. Oh, that was funny. No, I missed that. But I think it's because Jack has in mind, I'm going to do something to honor my mom. I'm going to make this meal that she said was my favorite as a kid. And I have this vague recollection of hot dogs and tomato soup. So you see him opening the Campbell's soup and cutting up some hot dogs. And the kids are so funny because they're sort of like, where's the bun? Yeah. Which I feel like that's what I would hear at my house too. Like, yeah, just eat it. Yeah, just try it. And he's looking at his kids eating the soup and the hot dogs, and he excuses themself to go-- And enjoying it. And enjoying it. And they're happy. It's been, you know, it's been a long, hard day. And he excuses himself to the other room, and Rebecca kind of follows, and it's the first time he sort of breaks down. He says-- He says-- Oh, I don't have a mom anymore. I don't have a mom anymore. Woo! That got me. Yeah. That got me. It got me in the moment. It got me again when I was watching it. There was something too, the way that this whole moment unfolds for me too, that was a real statement about grief, the way men grieve. Yeah. The way they're allowed to grieve. And how, because he says, he looks at you, he says, I don't have a mom anymore. He fully sobs. Mm-hmm. Then-- And also, you know, the way men-- He puts himself right back together. Men turn themselves to their wives, who sometimes become moms. Yep. To us. Yep. Zips it up. And goes and sits back down with his family. And the two of them go sit back down with the kids and soldier on. Yeah. Yeah. Which is both admirable and unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah. You know, for him to be like, all right, let me go get back. I had my moment. Be with these kids. I broke, and now I'm going to put it back together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to do it again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to put it back together. Yeah. And go face the reality of what my life is right now. And it was-- the shot of it, the direction of that moment, because they don't cut away, right? Yeah. Yeah. They just follow you guys from one room to the next. And it's-- as they pass the dark hallway-- Yeah. --you come back in the kitchen. It's like, hey. Yeah. And we're back to, you know-- Kids, none the wiser. Yeah. Right? Yep. Yeah. It's interesting. Like, I can remember-- Forget it. --only one time-- Just-- Sorry. Sorry. I can't let it go. I could eat. I just gave it right to her. Now I'm going to just go back and-- And she had no idea what she was doing. I could eat. Five seasons of pain and just a lifetime of struggle. More "That Was Us" after this short break. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's new series, "East of Eden," a bold reimagining of John Steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the Trask family through love, betrayal, and the choices that shape humanity. Starring Mike Feist and Christopher Abbott as the Trask brothers, and Florence Pugh as Cathy Ames, the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants, no matter the cost. Watch "East of Eden" now, only on Netflix. Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, an old cap finds a new scarf, because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's new series, "East of Eden." A bold reimagining of John Steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the Trask family through love, betrayal, and the choices that shape humanity. I remember my mom crying when my dad died, but not too much before then, right? So she was sort of like the one that was trying to, kept it together and then allowed herself grief, right? And I remember as a kid thinking like, all right, because I'm 10, almost 11. I was like, all right, she gets to grieve. I was like, let mom have her time, and I'll try to hold it down. It was a really interesting thought process. I was like, there's this thought process at 10 that was like, all right, only one person gets to do this at a time. I don't know where I even came from. It's weird. But I remember it. I mean, I think that that's not untrue. I think that that's a human survival mechanism. Yeah. It's like, all right, if we all are going to have to do this at some point, we should probably do it one at a time. Yeah. We can't all crumble. I guess so. But for a child to make that realization is-- It is interesting. But I--. not to make it about this but i just remember this one in particular so the aftermath of it if he was at home with his mom whatnot you know people bring food and they sort of just you know i'm sorry for your loss and everything and you're like you look at the food and you're like oh this is cool i'm happy to have the food but i also remember people being like how how are you you okay like is it gonna be all right and i was like yeah i'm good like there's this this feeling of like uh i was like i don't even think it was infantilizing so much as like trying to check in but the way that people check in with kids was not a way that i and i've seen andrew look at people like this be like i understand words you can just use the words like you don't have to do right this thing thing right and be like oh goodness he's like no no you can just you can just talk to me right and i'll be okay grief i think is so scary yeah for people yeah especially yeah other people's grief when i'm grieving i know what to do with it sure a hundred percent when other people are grieving folks i have a hard time chris i have a hard time uh uh knowing how to be helpful yeah i i i i short circuit i can't even right now in this conversation talk to you about it yeah and and so there's there's it's it's a real art it is like it's a real art form a friend of mine is a death doula like my girl from uh dying to yeah dying for sex yeah paula pal paula pal shout out paula yeah and i sent him that scene from and he's like this is the most perfect thing i've ever seen perfect because the ability to sit with someone who is in grief yeah or who is is going through something like that is a skill is is a a real skill to to sit to not just sympathize but to empathize and to and to exist in that space sometimes it's not about doing it's about being right right just being there yeah like that like the greatest sense of comfort i had was like when friends of mine knew how i was feeling right they didn't have to like do anything they're just like all right well we just sat there yeah and waited for me like yeah yeah yeah very very cool yeah so good episode oh yeah let's hear it let's listen to this voice now from ilan it's the writer of the episode we've had ilan on the pod what's he got to share with this gentleman our friend and yours ilan must die hey it's ilan mastai uh i hear you're on episode 604 which is an episode that i wrote so uh here are two memories and you know just like a little bit of tea uh as a canadian when i wrote an entire episode set during a blizzard i mean that didn't seem like such a big deal to me but of course we shot it in the middle of a heat wave in los angeles so our crew had to fake all the snow scenes obviously but more than that they had to build a frozen pond that you could actually skate on in the santa clarita mountains when it was like a hundred degrees out and i remember the magic of watching them feed these 300 pound blocks of ice through a chipper to spray with a hose over the barren desert hills and thinking we have the best crew in television oh yeah my second memory um shooting the final scene uh when jack steps away from the kids at the kitchen table and says to i don't have a mom anymore you know for me something dan fogelman and i unfortunately have in common is we both lost our our moms to cancer my mother passed away when i was in my 20s and i channeled all of that grief and shock and regret and loss and heartbreak into writing this episode and i remember how electric the set felt and sitting at the monitors with our director jesse kiyu watching milo's incredible performance but most of all i remember crew members coming up to me to tell me how much this episode affected them and especially that line of dialogue you know some had lost parents years or even decades ago some more recently and it really hit home like we're a crew and we work very hard but we're also people going through the ups and downs of life just like the characters on the show and i never felt closer to everyone than i did in that moment we all felt like we were making something really special with this one so much so and here's the tea that i don't think anybody really knows at one point dan turns to me and says i think this could be the spin-off so okay uh the idea that we could launch a new series off the characters in 604 including emmy winning actress cameron manheim as cousin debbie you know these characters related to the pittsburgh uh pearsons but who have their own drama and history and future it was obviously you know pretty intriguing uh i actually ended up putting up you know a bunch of work into mapping out what the spin-off could look like you know ultimately though mr daniel fogelman in his infinite wisdom uh decided this is us should end on its own terms properly and definitively and you know as much as the fans and i mean let's be honest the network uh would have loved a spin-off it would take away from what we were trying to accomplish with the show and the you know goodbye to the much much larger house i could be living in right now but it was obviously the right decision and i'm just so proud of what we all pulled off with this episode what an incredibly articulate man he should be a writer he should write that's hilarious that is some real tea i never heard that i had neither real inside baseball right yeah i had heard at one point in time when chrissy and i went to go visit the old house and the indians were like oh there's an indian family that was living in the house that there was a possibility of spinning that off yeah so i think like i think because the network was probably just been like so is it give us something the network was constantly going is that it's been off what about that um what about what about sidewalk chalk that's so that's but that's really it's so true that i don't think we often take the time to acknowledge is like we are a well-oiled we were a well-oiled machine our crew are incredible still got them man i know you still got most of them over there and to you know that like we are not immune to the stories we are lucky enough to have been able to tell right and that while we were living this work and telling these stories it it couldn't help but you know force us to sort of acknowledge the similarities in our own life lives um and that's like yeah that's a really beautiful uh message that he sent and how how close he felt to the crew yeah and i will echo that yes the the heat wave and the santa clarita mountains while we were shooting that the ice skating were bundled up yeah and it's a hundred like did the ice cool things off not really i was in that giant wool coat and a beret and like it was it was warm guys i've gotten to the point now at night that i'm like oh my god i'm not gonna be able to do this i'm not gonna be able to do this at night i'm not gonna be able to do this at night i'm not gonna be able to do this at night i'm not gonna be able to do this like oh so ryan's out of town and amari gets in bed with me to cuddle i give you about five minutes bro your little body is too hot yeah it's like a hot water bottle i was like big boy i gotta yeah yeah yeah sweet wants to cuddle and stuff oh yeah it was it was pretty miz we got dope crew we have the best yeah the best the best absolute best man it is and then speaking to just like what he was talking about when when crew gets a fact check like i think the best compliments like i think the best compliments like i think the best compliments that i i ever get is if camera that i i ever get is if camera that i i ever get is if camera props anybody says like hey man that was props anybody says like hey man that was props anybody says like hey man that was great what you did the other that one was great what you did the other that one was great what you did the other that one was and you're like yeah oh yeah thanks thanks and you're like yeah oh yeah thanks thanks and you're like yeah oh yeah thanks thanks guys those are the real those are the real guys those are the real those are the real guys those are the real those are the real where someone takes a minute out of like where someone takes a minute out of like where someone takes a minute out of like wrapping a wire yeah yeah by the way wrapping a wire yeah yeah by the way wrapping a wire yeah yeah by the way what yeah totally what yeah totally what yeah totally totally totally totally totally totally totally it feels good that means the most it feels good that means the most it feels good that means the most you're like okay i did something right you're like okay i did something right you're like okay i did something right yeah so that was i mean that's a break of yeah so that was i mean that's a break of yeah so that was i mean that's a break of sorts from the the major narrative of sorts from the the major narrative of sorts from the the major narrative of the show but what a beautiful break what the show but what a beautiful break what the show but what a beautiful break what a poignant heartfelt these are always my a poignant heartfelt these are always my a poignant heartfelt these are always my favorite episodes favorite episodes favorite episodes when we deviate and tell one story about when we deviate and tell one story about when we deviate and tell one story about one particular very specific part of our one particular very specific part of our one particular very specific part of our show yeah show yeah show yeah and this was important i feel like it and this was important i feel like it and this was important i feel like it gave so much color to gave so much color to gave so much color to you know a beloved character like jack you know a beloved character like jack you know a beloved character like jack this was a whole other side of him and this was a whole other side of him and this was a whole other side of him and getting to know getting to know getting to know similar episodes for sure in the canon similar episodes for sure in the canon similar episodes for sure in the canon that's dope is that what else we got a that's dope is that what else we got a that's dope is that what else we got a fan segment we got a fan segment fan segment fan segment let's call someone yeah stay tuned for let's call someone yeah stay tuned for let's call someone yeah stay tuned for more that was us earlier this week we received an email earlier this week we received an email earlier this week we received an email from a listener jennifer from a listener jennifer from a listener jennifer who wrote in about watching her father who wrote in about watching her father who wrote in about watching her father grieve the loss of his mother when she grieve the loss of his mother when she grieve the loss of his mother when she was just 10 years old she'd never lost a was just 10 years old she'd never lost a was just 10 years old she'd never lost a parent herself parent herself parent herself but seeing her dad go through that but seeing her dad go through that but seeing her dad go through that experience changed the way she experience changed the way she experience changed the way she understood him and years later a moment understood him and years later a moment understood him and years later a moment between jack and rebecca and this is us between jack and rebecca and this is us between jack and rebecca and this is us brought all of those memories rushing brought all of those memories rushing brought all of those memories rushing back to her so today we're giving back to her so today we're giving back to her so today we're giving jennifer a call to talk about the jennifer a call to talk about the jennifer a call to talk about the episode don't let me keep you and the episode don't let me keep you and the episode don't let me keep you and the line that hit her hardest the line being line that hit her hardest the line being line that hit her hardest the line being i don't have a mom anymore i don't have a mom anymore i don't have a mom anymore and what it was like realizing that and what it was like realizing that and what it was like realizing that even the people who take care of us are even the people who take care of us are even the people who take care of us are still someone's child too shall we give her a call hello this is jenny jenny this is sterling chris and mandy how are you good how are y'all doing great you prefer jenny over jennifer just making sure oh yes jenny is good i'll answer to jennifer um yeah it took my dad like 20 years to introduce me as jenny so and i love it i love y'all where where are we calling from where are you from yeah I live in Denver, but I grew up in Houston. So I have to keep my y'all with me. H-Town accent. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. I think y'all is one of the English language's most perfect words. I love y'all. Me too. It's inclusive. It's perfect. It hits every box. It feels good to say y'all. Absolutely. What up, y'all? And then when you hit an all y'all, that's when people made it. All y'all. Jenny, you speaking my language. All y'all. All y'all is hilarious. It's perfect. So you sent us an email about the episode that we were talking about today and about a certain line and how it related to an experience in your life. And maybe you could tell us a little bit about that experience. So I will start off by saying that I have never lost a parent, but I have watched both of my parents lose their parents throughout various parts of my life. And each experience. And each experience was a little bit different. But my dad, for this to really come full circle, for me, my dad, like Jack Pearson is based on him. Congratulations. Lucky you. I mean, honestly, just 10 out of 10, he's like the best guy ever. So he was an only child, grew up in a military family, super strict, serious father, like really fun, loving, sweet mom. Kind of rejected. The rigidity, I think, of his dad's attitude and wanted to kind of do his own thing. He's like the most hardworking person I know. He always told me growing up, like he knew he may never be the smartest person in the room or the most talented, but you could always work harder than anyone else in the room. And so that was like how he lived his life. He met my mom at the gym. He asked her out to lunch. And after one date, he told everyone in his office. That he had just met the woman he was going to marry. And during that meal, my mom had also told him that she got back together with an old boyfriend. He was not deterred. Love it. He said, what's your man got to do with me? Yeah. Yeah. No, he's like, okay, let's hang out still. So they've been married for 38 years and he's just the most devoted dad to me and my sister showed up at every game. He's just the most devoted dad to me and my sister. And he's like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be so proud of you and I'm going to be so proud of you. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be so proud of you. I'm going to be so proud of you and I'm going to be so proud of you. And he was like, I'm going to be so proud of you. And I was like, I'm going to be so proud of you. to sport a killer mustache back in the 80s and it is just jack pearson let's go to a tea yes um so my dad lost his father before i was born but his mother passed away when i was in fourth grade um and she was so fun she would like let you do the things you could never do at home i would eat an entire store-bought bag of raisinets at the movies um you know saying things that were definitely not flying in my household she was letting slide but um she was pretty sick towards the end of her life so i don't think she made it easy on my mom who was kind of tasked with taking care of her i think she really just wanted like my dad around who was very busy at the time with his career that was like sustaining our family and her care and so when she died i was 10 years old and i i i i just remember that feeling of like seeing my dad and really sensing like he's going through something that i i do not understand um so there's that scene in the episode where jack tells rebecca i don't have a mom anymore and i was just so struck by that um it really transported me back to that time when my dad he was still my dad but i think i was realizing for the first time that he was also someone's child and like a child who is now without parents and he didn't have siblings and so seeing him more as like oh she's like on his own um in this experience and so i think that's a concept that it's still hard for me to grasp at 31 but even more difficult when i was 10 um so it's just one of those first of many times i think in life where you begin to see your parents um humanity and think of them as outside of yourself um but this episode has always really resonated with me and i think about it a lot because i feel like it stands on its own as a story so it just really stuck with me wow thank you so much for sharing that that's really beautiful it transported me back in time it's also just like the contextualizing of a human life like we tend to think of people as one thing is how they relate to us right like that's your dad yeah but he's also somebody else's child yeah and and you we forget that like i don't even know if my kids are always fully cognizant of it themselves right it's a challenging concept to grasp at that age i think i think it is the nature of youth that most things relate to how they affect you how they relate to you and then it takes a little bit of time to recognize it like oh i'm not the center but everybody's a part of you know what i'm saying yeah and how do you think as you were watching your dad's story how did you feel about him and how did you feel about him yeah i'd go through that there's we talk about it here on the show for like there is such great value in in in allowing our children to witness our grief or our or or even our flaws or any of those things but it's hard to not um uh uh cross across a line where you where your children end up taking care of you or or tending to your feelings and and so i'm wondering how that experience was for you and him and how did you feel about him and how did you feel about him as he was going through that yeah i would say my parents have always been really fabulous at being the adults i have a lot of friends where i don't think that's their experience and they do like you're saying and that's kind of crossing that boundary of like feeling responsible i will say i'm i'm very lucky in that regard but i feel like my parents are pretty rock solid um i remember i was like shocked when i was young where my sister and i were like when did you get married you guys talk about that and they were like we talk about a lot of stuff without you guys around and that was like shocking shocking what do you mean um and now as i'm an adult i'm like oh my god of course they were not like making decisions with us all the time um i think when that like he was going through that it was just knowing that it like i think my mom did a good job of being like it has nothing to do with you guys like it's not about you guys like you can be there for him and like make sure you know he loves you like you love him but um like he's sad and like it's okay that he's he's sad for this time period while he's kind of going through it that's a good mom yeah yeah you got good parents they're both like so stellar i i don't know how i lucked out i love you i love well thank you so much for sharing email and for telling us the story and and for just rocking with us in our little show man we appreciate it appreciate the love and wishing you all the best in denver it's mile high uh stay hydrated you live there so you you know stay hydrated and don't forget of course stay hydrated i everyone is dying of heat stroke i did make a promise to myself that if i was ever to chat with y'all that i would bring up chris sterling if you have not seen mandy moore in saved you're missing like a key component jennifer first of all we were just talking about comfort movies never fails to make me laugh seeing you throw a bible at someone never gets one of the first things i am honored one of the first things sterling said today was maybe you should make a sequel to saved it was oh my god many more rocking the fundamentalist christian it was like many more you you're familiar with this world aren't you a little bit a little bit thank you that is very kind of you thanks for schooling us jenny we appreciate oh thank y'all so much thanks for bringing pop tarts back on the map you know just protein pop tarts yeah make sure hey you got to get your protein somewhere go for it god bless have a good one have a good day thank y'all so much she's sweet she's cool i like jenny another episode oh yeah another episode in the can a great one a great one another great one another stellar episode another one that was recorded and released 604 14 more yeah we'll Throw some chats in. Yeah, some chats. Some interviews. If you guys have ideas or thoughts about chats that you would like us to engage. Send them our way. Please send them our way. Yeah, we need to do a chat with us on parenting. I feel like that's been well established. That would be an organic one. For sure. We've talked about the marriage thing and maybe bringing our partners in. I'll put everybody on the couch with me. If you guys like it. I know you like your chairs. I like the couch. No, you don't. Yeah, I do. Do you really? Yeah. My booty's warm. So is mine. Trust me. It's not any drier over here. And it's not because I don't like the couch. It's because it's warm in LA. It is warm in LA right now. And just so you guys know, when we record, even on a TV show, you have to turn the AC off because the AC makes too much noise. So we're sweating. So I hope you feel bad for us. Don't forget to like and subscribe. Smash that subscribe button. Feel bad for us right now. Share an episode with a friend. Watch us a day early on Hulu. And as we always say at the end of these episodes. I could eat. That was us. That was us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was us. That was a HeadGum Podcast. Join for just $20 at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. Limited time offer. New members only. BJ's, home of the save. First the air, then the light. And slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress. A hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer. Until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross.