Marieke van de Rakt on Work, Family Life, and Dutch Innovation

Seriously Bud is brought to you by OmniSend. OmniSend is a top choice for email and SMS marketing on WordPress, perfect for WooCommerce shops, easily connect with customers and send out awesome campaigns every day. We'll be back in a bit to tell you about our other friendly sponsors. Hello, my name is Bri and welcome to Seriously Bud, a podcast featuring an unexpected conversation with someone from the WordPress community. And now it's time for our host, my dad, BunCrowse. Thank you, Bri. You know, I had so much fun last week speaking with Dan Canouse. I thought I'd do this all over again. Now I'll be back at the end to give you my thoughts about this week's episode. It's number 65. So here we go. Morica, BondaRock, welcome to Seriously Bud. All right, now you can tell me what is your preference? You're a really close. Thank you for having me here. I'm really happy to be here. My name, my pleasure. My pleasure. Would be Morica from the rock. I think your pronunciation is better than most. Yeah. Whatever I think I always try to, please give it a shot to pronounce somebody's name correctly, even if I fail. It's just a nice thing. I think. What's the first thing you remember in your life? The first thing I remember was I was three or almost three and we were moving houses. So and it was just like within the same neighborhood, but my parents were able to buy a house. So they were renting before. And I know that my father was painting the place and doing stuff and and we went over there to check out the new house. And that's the first memory. I have very vivid memories of my childhood. I know exactly what the classroom looked like. I know everything. Were you conscious as a little kid like I was of remembering things because I was really conscious and saying to myself, pay attention to what your experiencing. Do you ever think of a very reflective child? So I remember that I love being a little kid, but I hated kindergarten because that was very boring. So I remember when I was like eight years old, I would think about, oh, I would love to be a baby again, but I would hate to do kindergarten all over because that was the most boring ever. So that's yeah. So I think I was being reflective or making memory. So would it be very say you were slightly percolate so I mean to make that state, but I wasn't aware of that when I was a child. Were you good at everything in school, like in elementary and high school, were you like a star student, not an elementary school, though. So in elementary school, I recently discovered last year that I have ADHD, which explains a lot because I don't think I ever paid attention in school, but I was a very good student outside of school. So I would do my homework and I would study very hard and I would be able to do that at home, but not in the classroom. So in elementary school, you don't have homework. And I was a normal above average. I was reading at a very young age, but I don't think I ever got anything from the teacher. And when I started high school, I could do that at home because I didn't get anything from the teacher down either, but that made up for it. And I was a very, very good student all the ways to high school university and I did a PhD afterwards. So yeah, yeah, I heard you have a PhD in social science and criminology actually. Wow, I know that criminology. Yeah. Wow. That's an interesting subject. Yeah, it is. But you didn't really pursue that after college or did you? Well, when I did my PhD, so I have college, I have the masters in sociology and I started my PhD when I was 24 and I got pregnant at the age of 25 and I got my oldest son and that trouble the way in the scientific career a bit. So I finished that PhD, but afterwards, it was also a very tough job market in the Netherlands. So I couldn't find a position close to home and ended up being a teacher for a few years. And that's also when you started doing your post and I was always interfering with that. So at one point in time, I was just like, okay, I'm going to join you and leave the scientific career. Well, behind that that's yeah. Yeah, well, is it true and that that a lot of people in the Netherlands. They have their children before they get married. I think I heard that in one of my interviews. Did you? And one child then we got married and then we had three more. Yeah, yeah, that's that's a common thing I have learned. I think it was. Yeah, I'm a meek of both of that. But it's also maybe I would have like to get married, but my first child was a surprise. So it was also like, okay, yeah, well, that child was enough of a thing already. And then once we had that child, you asked me to marry him and we got married. I think my son was too. Well, we got married. He was there. Okay, now before we get any further in that track, I like take you back for a second and your child, the Jeep, do you have brothers, sisters, are you close to you? Very close. He doesn't live. So I stayed in the village that I grew up and Joseph founded in my hometown because Taco and Joseph didn't live here. I live there. Okay, wait a minute. That's how we'll get to Houston a second. That's Taco. Taco for the first. Yeah, he now also lives in my village where I was raised. My brother moved to Amsterdam, which is an hour and a half away. So it's so I don't see him every day, but we talk on a weekly basis. And I think we're really close. Yeah. And Netherlands being such a small country and I have never been. I'd like to go. One reason why is I seem to know a lot of people now where Dutch, can you explain why there are so many wordpressers? I'm going to answer my own question and then you can answer it. I usually ask and answer my own questions. I just think that there must be a culture, a spirit, a something that allows for creative thought, innovation, entrepreneurship. What is it that makes people that way? I mean, it's your history. What I do know is that the Netherlands had the most happiest children. So children in the Netherlands are the half. We're very, we don't like authority. So our schools, I think, especially for people from France or even from Germany are very loose. There's not like where we don't look up to the teacher. It's bad because I'm a teacher. Nobody looks up to me. So that's different. And maybe that sparks creativity and innovation because you can think outside of the box. I think we also encourage our children to do that. I know you said you're a teacher. Where do you teach? What do you teach? I was teaching before I joined the company. And then I didn't do that for like 12 years, but I loved doing that. So I recently started a kind of January of this year. And it's in a college nearby. It's like an hour drive. So it's not that nearby for the Netherlands. I'm almost in Germany. It's almost in Germany. It's a group of international students and I teach online marketing. So I try to teach them about wordpress, but it's not always very hard to get them into wordpress. Which is fun because that's the work I've been doing for the past 12 years. And I'm still doing that. So I learned something myself on Monday. And I can teach them the same thing on Tuesday, which is I think very valuable. Yeah. That's why it's fantastic. So is it international marketing? It's an international study. So I have, well, Dutch and German because for close to Germany. But also students from Eastern Europe. I have a lot of from Italy. And then from all over. So also from South America. I don't have anyone from the US yet. I don't think they study in the Netherlands. I don't know. How many languages do you speak to such an English fluent? And I can I can understand. And I can like kind of speak back. This is not good. And I can also I can understand French. But that's not my French is not good. What did your parents do? My father was well English, which I now a physical therapist and he worked in a place where old people were that had like seizures in their brain. And then he learned them to walk again. My father is a hero. Yeah, he is. And then my mother was when I was younger, she was a stay at home mom. And later on she did a lot of things like in nursing. The time with people that that are home and that need a little bit of help. So that work. That's what she did. So they're both working. She'll kind of similar. Yeah, from like a medical background. Both of them. Yeah, you mentioned this guy. Yo, okay. Yeah, I know he's your husband. And I can't wait to hear the answer to this. Hey there. We'll get back to the show in just a moment. Seriously, bud is made possible by big scouts. When it comes to WordPress hosting. There is no reason to compromise on service from your provider. Expect more. With 24 seven 365 live experts, big scouts redefines managed WordPress hosting service levels for clients, partners and agencies learn more by visiting www dot big scouts dot com and chat with the team member now. And by the WP dot world. A great way to see who's in the WP world and what they are up to find out at the WP dot world. That's right. It's the WP dot world and let others know what you're up to to. Now let's get back to the show. How did you guys meet up? It's a great story. I don't think I've ever told anybody in the birthpress world. So, just a minute. And I met on the most nerdy thing. We both entered what is called the model European Parliament in which students from high school I was 17, he was 16, re-enacted the European Parliament. So we make laws and stuff and we have to debate. And he was in a different school than I was but we lived fairly close by and I think it was love at first sight. But he at that time had a girlfriend. So nothing happened. And there was like a spark and then four years later I saw him because we were both studying in the same city and I walked up to him and I said, aren't you Joseph Alk from the model European Parliament? Then he knew my name and my home address and my phone number and that might sound creepy. I thought that was really a little bit creepy. Yeah. So he remembered me as well and then, well, that's when we started talking to each other. I think it took another year for we became an item. Matt, after the four years. Well, 2004 and 2006 we had our first child. It all went really fast. Love it first. Yeah. But I already, the four, the model European Parliament, you would get a book with all the photos of the participants in there and I already saw it and I thought, oh, he's going to be nice. I, the four even met him. I thought this is, this is going to be a nice boy. Now my daughter actually, my daughter, and her, the model European Parliament this year. So we're all having high hopes that she would find the love of her life there. But so far that hasn't happened yet. I'm assuming you sat down and wrote the draft of the GDPR just something like that for kicks and giggles. And he's best. Maybe I'd know the other guy. We enjoyed that. We wrote down the GDPR and which everybody knows about today. So now he was dating. Yes. You were not dating somebody. And that's not dating someone. I wasn't. I did have a high school boyfriend for a long time actually. But I was on a break when I met Joe's. So I was free. But nothing happened there. But I wrote in a journal to all my childhood and I know that I wrote there that I really liked this boy called Josephal, but that nothing happens and that the boy named Joseph, okay, I have heard his name pronounced used toast. I'm sure you heard everything. What is Joseph the correct pronunciation of his name? Oh, it is. So the company is called Yost because nobody pronounced his name correctly. And for a long time, I think the company and the person were identical. So people couldn't set them apart. And then people started to say, this is just from Yost. And then he said, right. Yes. Now it's like full circle again because now that people are pronouncing my name wrong, again, because they don't understand that I am the same pronunciation as the company. I have never had the pleasure of hearing you speak, but except online. I have had the pleasure of hearing hip speak at a word camp. I actually asked him a question. Oh, you did? I mean, I was brave enough to ask a question. I was probably shaking at my boots. He's a very normal guy. Yeah. I understand that. I'm not. Oh, okay. Because I get started. No, I don't. Curious. Where do you go when you're working on vacation? Where do you guys go? So when we sold Yost, we had one. I had one wish. I think Yost had to hold full, but there was one big wish. We only had one vacation with just the two of us. And then I got pregnant. And that was in Italy in Tuscany. So I said, whenever we got like a big amount of money, we're going to buy a house in Tuscany. And we did. So most of our vacations, we spent in Italy in Tuscany, in which we have a house and all of our children can sleep there as well. Oh, good. I'm going to go there. You should. Yeah. No. I mean, peach chinery. You know, peach chinery. You know, she as well. She's from that area. Yeah. I know. And there's going to be a word camp in Biza. And that's very close to where our house is. So we're already planning because that's in November. That would be great if we can combine like our house with a trip to work in Biza. Yeah. Now forget the house for a second. When you're traveling, I mean, you're supposed to want to go somewhere. Yeah. Do you go to Africa, South America? Where do you go? I haven't traveled that much. So we've been to the US. And I've been to Peru because my best friend got married in Peru with a Peruvian guy who lives in an house now. But so. I've never been to Asia. I've never been to Australia. I've never been to Africa. You're shitty. No. Wow. Yeah. I am shocked. Why? I have four children who are in school. Seriously, but you take them with you. And they're very, very strict and taking them out of schools. So and we used to do longer vacations in the summer than they have six weeks. So we have had a vacation in the US. I think we did that twice. But and they don't enjoy that now because they have their own friends. So they also said, oh, we all go on vacation for two weeks. And then we want to do things with our friends, which makes sense. I am stunned that you haven't been what you said you were in the United States. But you know, they're usually connected to word camps. I've been to Nashville and I've been to St. Louis on word camps. All right. Nashville, I write. Okay. And we've done a whole trip on the. I always forget. Los Angeles San Francisco. That's the West. Okay. The East Coast. Right. Yeah. West Coast. And we've also done Florida and New York. I loved our trip on the West Coast. And we went to Sequoia National Park with a big tree. And I love that. Oh, yeah. And in the evening, you can be too. It's so very bright. You could see the Milky Way from there. So that was. Yes. For me, that was like a highlight in the United States. Yeah. Yeah. How about New York? Did you like New York? I like New York very much. There are a few times my daughter is a musical lover. And she really wanted to say Hamilton. So we traveled there. I think two years ago. I knew this was. I'm telling you, I can read people's minds. That's scary. Seriously? I can read my own. Okay. Here we go. Now, I won't you won't stop. Okay. So anyway, here's my quick little Hamilton story. I saw it when it was six weeks old. A rig. You saw it with the original. The original cast. Correct. And it wasn't 800 hours at a ticket either. And we were in the for its row. My daughter is and was the Lin-Manuel Miranda super fan. My daughter as well. She actually knew him for a while before he became very famous. And in the show, when he was the beginning, he's walking down these steps and the opening scene. And she says to me, she said, she goes, "Daddy's looking right at me." And I said to her, "Bree, he's got to look at somebody. He might as well look at you." And then after the show was over, her, you know, we have to wait for them to come out, you know. She goes up to her, you guys, "Oh, look at you. Change your hair." I mean, like, I'm like, "Ahh, Lin-Manuel Miranda and my daughter, go figure this out." I will tell my daughter this now. She will be star struck. I did get a chance to say it. Talked him for a minute or two. He's really nice guy. Oh, great. That's what everybody wants to take him all. Marry him. I mean, he's terrific guy. I hope he still is. Of course. Do go see Hamilton no matter what it costs. And they're now, I think they're now bringing it to London, which is like far closer, but we, she was just so into it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What was the word that you just said? Seriously, but? No. You just described London. I know, but how much was the tickets in London? I don't know. Okay. You stop. I just wanted to make sure my hearing is. Oh, no. No, they're bringing it to London. That's what I said. So, so, so, and that for us is much quicker. Sure. But we ended up seeing four musicals in four days. I don't know. But my daughter just wanted to see them. And I'm like, we're here. Marterswell just do all of it. London, how do you get there? Do you fly? Do you boat? Chimals? What? Tunnel, I think. It's most quick is now. So go by train and then through the tunnel. That's what. And how long does that take? My, my, I don't go to London that often because Jo's always takes the children when they, when they turn 10. So he goes there every few years. Right. Right. I think it takes from our house to London takes about five and a half hours. So, so from door to door, which is a little bit more. Okay. I think that's not too bad. I mean, I haven't been there in quite a long time, but you know, I'm supposed to actually go to Israel. Oh, you are. I don't know if that is real. That is real. That is a little bit. As a middle of July. And I'm going for a family occasion. But I'm going to see Miriam Schwab, who will mentor in Tel Aviv. If all goes well. Well, I think you know you can't fly there. No, nobody's flying there right now. No, in and out. But I'm good. I'm good to go. You know, I, I won't probably know until we go. Yeah. Whether or not, you know, if the airport's open, close, I don't know. Well, well, no one we get there in the middle of July. So are you going to be traveling anywhere in the summer? We're going to. Are you already told me? Well, you, when the summer, you got to go because the kids are not in school. They were going to Italy. And then Yosin and I are going to go on vacation. Just the two of us because our children are now all enough to stay home a few days. So we're going to go to the champagne in France, which is actually like a four hour drive for real. Yeah. Things are too. You've been to Northern Africa. You haven't been. No, that's all my bucket list. I'm very young. Me too. I can do that. That's true. I just think that because of all the things that you've done that you probably in your 80s, you just look really good. Well, I think I've done. Yeah. So this is, I've worked a lot and I've done a lot with my children. So that's also. And then your life is full. I have also done a lot of things. I haven't done a lot of things yet. So, the nap time. Well, now, Miriam's had seven children. You have four. Are you always doing laundry? She says she's the expert in doing laundry. Is that one of your specialties? So I don't have any extra childcare or hardly any extra childcare. We do that over ourselves, but we do have someone that helps with cleaning and the laundry. So you don't do the laundry? No, I do some in the weekends because it's too much. But we have someone who comes in three times a week that helps us out with everything except the children because I think that's the part that I can really contribute. And that's what they will remember. And who does the laundry is less important than who helps you with your homework, I think. So that's what I do myself. I am a feeling I'm very involved with their education and upbringing and obviously. And yet you enjoy doing it. Yeah, and we're also, no, Yos is mostly the cab driver that brings them everywhere. And somebody has to do it. But that well, he does all the practical things. He also wakes up earlier and makes them lunches and stuff. And I do all the coaching, all the helping with homework or seeing whether or not they are prepared, but they all are very good students as well. So here's a really disgusting question. How was your oldest child? Almost 19. 19? Yes. Does your 19 year old know how highly regarded they and well known you guys are in the world? Who knows? Because he himself spoke at word computer a few years ago. So he knows. Isn't so. How cool. He was the youngest speaker on at least that word computer that year he was. Was that Greece? Yes. I was there. He spoke there. He had a, really, I was very, it was very, it was the oldest speaker there. How good. I probably was. Yeah, so he was still in high school then and he did it as a part of his project. That's why he had a project that he could skip classes, but then he had to do a lot of things. I think I heard about this. Wow. So he knows, except he thinks we're really, really normal. My daughter has no idea. And I think that's cool. And then our third one knows a little bit, but he also thinks we're boomers. And then the youngest doesn't care. I said, I told you this is kind of a gross line of question here, but do you tell them, hey, we're really well known in the tech and WordPress world. I mean, how do they, do they find out? They find out online and they can see. And sometimes people come over. Google your parents. Yeah, Google, well, they did that. I know that my, my oldest son asked J.G.P.T. Am I a NEPO baby? Yeah. Am I a white baby? A NEPO baby. So I see like a child from parents that are so privileged that he didn't earn it by himself, but he's now studying in a totally different field. And sometimes we have people over. So Yost is also very good friends with the CMO of Metta from Facebook. So he's like all the way up in the tree of, and that's a very down to earth person. But my son then is like a bit star struck that that person is, is coming along to a football game that soccer for you. That is fake. So sometimes they see a little bit of that. And we have had executives come to our house, but they all think, they're all people. I think Dutch people are very down to earth and that as well. So they're not that high in mighty and stuck on themselves and stuff like that. No. People that I'm not really interested in. Because for what they, you can't, they're not approachable. If you're not approachable, then why would I be interested in? I'm just not, you know, I know about your age. You have a long runway. I have a 44. You could tell us a little bit about what you're doing now, what you think you're going to be doing. Let's say you're in age 20 years. I'm now doing three things. I've three job. I have my work at Amelia Capital, which is part of an investment company and we also launched a new product. So I'm also doing all of the product world, the product school, progress planner. So I'm doing that. And that's about three days a week. I think I do that. And then I have two days a week in which I teach. And then in the evenings, I am involved in local politics here in our hometown. So that's also I think that's two nights a week. So it's like a day a week. So I have six days a week when I work for that. So tell me about the local politics stuff because my listeners are believing in that all over the world. I guess that's no shot. But I don't think most of us know Dutch politics. No, I got that. I don't. And I'm a news junkie like, you know, I mean, like hopeless news junkie. But I don't know Dutch politics. There are things today, you know, briefly tell me like they're not that far off from all the other countries. So nationally, we are well, we need a new government. So what what happened is that they we always have a coalition in the nationally because because this is just what it is. Nobody can form a majority. Yes. I mean, that's what you do. There's no majority. Yeah. And now they have gone into a fight with each other. And then that means that they will become new elections. So we'll have new elections for the national government in October. The biggest party is the most bright wing he loves from, but the biggest party in the Netherlands is only like 25% of the people vote for him because we have so many other parties. I am not involved in that political party. I am involved in a much more left winged that party, which I'm involved in is called green left. So it's about sustainability. Like a green bird. Yes. Green. And I'm doing that locally, which means it's very down to earth because it's usually about how many trees which three is we can. I love it. I love trees. I'm a tree hunter. Well, but it does help. I don't know. It is good to think about these things that matter to people in their daily lives, but aren't really big. And I also like the local part because we don't have the really right wing parties. We don't even have them locally because they only exist on a national level. So it's all very polite and nice in the city council where I'm, I mean, so I really enjoy doing that work. Yeah. Is it, would you call it civil discourse? Yes. It's still pretty good. And they joke afterwards. We usually have like drinks afterwards. And then I don't know, even the parties in which I think are the most far away from what I believe that those people are still nice. So you can have like a solid discussion with them without name, calling or anything, just really nice, right? Saving trees or beautifying land or I use what it's so funny about that. I don't get it. I mean, I do have what's a love trees at every time like a tree dies or I think I get very upset. I don't get like crying, but we did that. Trees bring such beauty to the world. So we have, and in Vika very live, we have a local council and there is a garden with very like all trees. And so we are having like trying to make laws that those trees will not be damaged by the things that people want to do in that garden. But we also can do stuff about people that are sick or how that is arranged about criminal behavior of young people. That is not a big problem, but how we deal with that. Those are all things that we then talk about them. We can try to improve. That's what we do. Yeah. Sure. And landscapes and all that are so important. That could be more important than the space that you live at. Unfortunately, we don't think about that stuff anymore. And I live now. I just sold my home. There were a lip for 38 years, but I am right on a park. So everything I look at the wind, all I see is trees and parks. And that's really, I'm going to miss that. I don't know where the heck I'm going. I'm on a glide path now to homelessness. Oh, you should do something about that. I really know because I don't want to become homeless. I mean, you know, pretty, be homeless. And that's that. No, we'll find. We'll be. Yeah. I hope so. And now worry. Yeah. Now, tell me the name again of the town that you live in and where you were born and you've been all your life. I'm very just dislocated. I need a million. Yeah. Yeah. The whole thing. Vison. Oh, God. Am I supposed to say it? It's really hard. It has like, yeah. I know. And you've righted it's weirdly as well. It's like old Dutch. That even people Dutch can't even pronounce. Well, people in the Netherlands pronounce it often pronounced or write this word. They make mistakes in that because it's old Dutch. So it's even for the Dutch people. It doesn't make sense how it's written. And how many people live there? About 40,000. Yeah. It's a time. Yeah. Are you living there for the foresee? Well, obviously you live in. You have a home in Tuscan. Yeah. Yeah, we are. So my youngest son is 10 years old. So he'll be well, when he goes to college, that could be the time that we say, okay, let's maybe we can travel a bit and see Africa because I haven't been there. And also also I might actually beat you. Yeah. You do that. Like shocking. No, then then we could like maybe half of the time live in Italy or something like that. And we now have a very big house and we live in a four. It's really nice where we live. I don't know if that is something that we want to continue doing if we don't have four children with us anymore. You know, Melana zap. Yes. I don't think I said it really. I think it's I always say Melana cup, but I know. No, no, no, no, no. Oh, no, I just say Melana. I'm sorry, Melana. Yeah, because Oh, no, she's so funny because she says they're people in Serbia pronounced at that way. And she says, I'm your Serbian. You're not a Serbian. Hey, man. You know, but anyway, there's three different ways to pronounce it. And I just did the best I could. Okay. I'm sorry, but it's not the not that knitted thing you put on your head. I just never. sent her last name before so I know I know because that's my thing I'd like to get into the last name to pronouncing it. Yeah, you have to do that if you're if you're a host of a podcast. You don't have to do it. Okay, but it's just a good idea. I think it's the right thing to do. Anyway, she's lived in the same town her whole life. Yeah. And that town has been in four different countries. Right. Because during her lifetime. Wow. You this Vavi and she can't even she's not even good there for different countries. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I spent some time in the in the city nearby here. So the bigger city because I was studying there and I lived there. And what city is there? Neimeiger. We only know Amsterdam. You know, we know that Amsterdam and the hog. Yeah. Yeah. The hey, hey, yeah. That's half the hey. You say it correctly, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Well, I think so. Yeah. Because that's how how does people pronounce it. But then I just know what time you're meant because I was just expecting. Don't know, but they're all small town. So and we don't live in the Amsterdam region. We actually live closer to the German border, which is a nice place to live. But for Dutch people, even in tech, people all live in Amsterdam. So they also think we're weird. But yeah, just and I just wanted to grow the company and we had really good internet in Viche. So what else do you need? And I know where tackle is now. Because the breeze I know I said that wrong. Remk is where? Yeah, because lives in Frisland, which is all the way up north of the country. And he has his own language. Yeah, we can't understand. Yes, I know. Yeah. I know. I know. I know. I love Remk is to love everybody. So you know, what's the you know, I didn't love all these people. I don't know. Spectat. You should love Remk is because he is like really strong. So that's like a one. Oh, yes. You mean like strong man strong, you know, I'm Mr. Cleed because he's like got this Mr. Cleed, you know, the detergent, whatever the cleaner. Oh, yeah. He man body. I saw him in Arizona a couple of months, a little while ago. And you know, I know. I don't even know how I know people. Anyway, I mean, they've been on the show and stuff. But Marika, thank you so much for doing this. This was like I've said, you were one of the very first people I had on my list to interview. Even though I didn't really know you at all. I just you know, I'm just starting to scratch the surface. But thank you for doing this. You're welcome. The audience doesn't know, but you smiled the entire time. Do that. I mean, you have that smile. It must be like, wow. Yeah, I do that. Yeah. Yeah. You should have fun in your life, right? Yeah. That's what we're here for. I think. And so I mean, we could be serious about our work, but we don't have to be serious about ourselves. No, there's a big difference. Right. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So who do you suggest I have on a future episode? It can't be a past episode. An episode of "Seriously But." I think you should have fired my husband. I know. You know, yeah, it's like, you know, I mean, I knew if it I didn't know it. Go ahead. You should invite him and then ask him the story how he met and ask him if he was offered for a site. And then we know if it's not a head, husband and wife, different times. Yeah. And it's funny to get their site of the city. Right. And they're not. They don't always match up. You know, I've had a Kate and tofer, D'Aroja, I've had Hans and Donate, I've had a lot of fun. I always ask that could have endlessly interested how people met. And then I have another suggestion. The guy who has Mela Press, which is like a number of plugins, Robert Ambella, he also lives in Vita. So I think that's just so funny. And his, his, his, all his daughter now also goes to the same school that my children go to and the same school, Taco went to and the same school I just went to. You know, I'm going to have to go there. I'm just going to go. Yeah. So I mean, there's so many people I know now. Oh my goodness. That all live, I think the number of WordPress people that live in our hometown is enormous. I always ask my guests and say, uh, I always say that, well, if you think maybe you could get them on this. Yes, of course. You already have to ask him. He is quite busy. He doesn't know me from Adam. I know he's so busy. Yeah, but he can, he can do this because it doesn't need any preparation. So I'm, and he talks really easy. So I think he would enjoy it. It's just that he has to find that place and his is, yeah, he's now traveling to Denver, he's traveling a lot. Which is also very busy. I will circle back to you. Ask answer. Obviously, I like to talk to him because, you know, it's another situation I don't know. And I'd like to know his story. He's such an interesting story. He did, he did graduate high school, but then after that, nothing. I know a little bit about his story, but he is so as yours. Thank you. So boy, I could go after him. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you. Hey, I didn't know that Marika has a PhD in criminology. Teachers online marketing is a mother of four and had her first child before she got married and met her husband-youst at the model European Parliament when they were both in high school. I can't wait to hear his side of the story. Did you? Please take a moment to rate or review my show wherever you get your podcasts. And until next time, Thank you for your time.