Margaret Cho

Hello, David. Hi, Rizabel. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I've got a question for you. Okay. If you could be a comedian, an actor, a singer, a podcaster, or a writer, what would you be? And am I good at the thing or is that just my job? You're good at the thing and you like doing all the things. Comedian, for sure. You'll be a comedian. Yeah. I think it's the most elite form because you have to be smart and funny. You're so fucking right. Do you think you'd have a chance in hell, Rizabel? What do you think? No way. No. When I see a really good comedian, I'm just like, I'd be scared to talk to you. I feel like sometimes I want to see you doing public speaking or speaking at a party or something. People laugh at you a lot. Yeah, they're laughing at me, which is quite different to me making a joke. I feel like it's easy enough to be goofy or, like, sort of charmingly incompetent or whatever, but, you know, to make it a clever joke is a totally different skill. I'm David Ferrier in New Zealand, an accidentally marooned here in America. And I want to figure out what makes this country tick. And for the record, as I'm sure you all know by now, Rizabel is very funny. She's not just goofy or charmingly incompetent. I think she's the real deal. And like you, Rizabel, because today's episode is with comedian Margaret Cho, who we're all fans of. While she's many things from actor to activist, I think comedian is probably at number one. This thing that's driven her ever since she started writing jokes as a 14-year-old. I love her perspective on the world. And because she grew up in California, I've been dying to have her in the studio for ages. And finally, she's here. So get ready to laugh and think and reflect and do whatever else you do when you listen to someone yapping on a podcast because this is the Margaret Cho episode. When Rizabel says charmingly incompetent, Yes. Do you at all relate to that phrase? I don't know what you would be. I don't know what you would be referencing now. Because when she said it, I was like, is she saying that about herself or about David? It was a digger, David. The funny thing is, when you put that up, I'm like, "Haha, you're talking about me." But I realized that when she did say it, I think she definitely was talking about me and I didn't clock it. And then you wrote it in and out. And then I wrote it into the thing. Because I don't know that I would have described her as charmingly incompetent. No, I agree. When she's funny, it's not incompetent. No, no, no. I think she's one of the funniest people I know, genuinely. And I think it's annoying because she absolutely was talking about me. And I didn't realize it, which means I don't see myself as the thing that I clearly am. And it also adds to what she was saying that you need to be smart to be a comedian. You are so annoying. It was a very smart digger. No, I cannot disagree. This is so annoying that all this went over my head. Despite being the one talking to her, recording her and reflecting on what she said. And then writing a snappy intro about it. I hate Rose about it. I hate you. And the two of you together? Yeah. My nightmare. Yeah, I mean, do we talk about that a little bit? The two of us together? Because we've got a group chat. What's up? The three of us? There is. Yes. We've talked about incorporating her a little more into Patreon and just popping it on Zoom. Yeah. We have, because she's amazing. And it'd be a fun, extra dynamic. But how do you feel about that? I mean, whenever I log into that group chat, I feel like often it is the two of you tending to team up against me in a way that, you know, if we expand her into Patreon, I'm concerned from my own, you know, I'm a very image-based person. You know, I'm always thinking, how do people perceive me? What are they thinking? And the two of you are dangerous when paired. I mean, on the road with both of you, when she came over to America to do our tour, I want to say tour. Two shows to the tour. But it was like over a course of five days. I think it's the tour. Yeah, it's the tour. But watching the two of you interact was both lovely and worrisome at the same time. I've gotten better at this, but I tend to keep my friendship groups in bubbles. I don't know any of your LA friends. See, this is interesting, because I do do this. I've always done it. I keep people in bubbles, and I don't, let's explore this at a later date. I will say two. But insane that. One of my closest friends is now deeply in your bubble. Yeah, yeah. And it's mostly fine except when you turn on me. I like it. I will say spending that time with her and you together did make me look at you in a different light. See, this is why we have your bubbles. Yeah, yeah, which is probably your fear. It is. No, it is. I'm a very basic person, and there's a basic reason for everything I do. Well, I've just let you know your fear of that was maybe confirmed. I think we should explore this. Probably on Patreon, because I don't want it to be open to everyone. Yeah. But I think the idea of you shifting a perception of me whilst with Roosevelt is fascinating. And I wanted to get. And I don't think it was like overall a total negative. Thanks. Thanks so much for that. But onto the important stuff. Yeah. We're nominated for two signal awards. Which are interesting because they are important in awards. But I'm also I'm not going to sugarcoat this. They are essentially a people's choice award. That's not true. Oh. You're right. They're half chosen by some sort of panel. Yes. And they're half chosen by the audience. Yes. Which I think Webby is similar to a lot of these awards. Yeah. I think it's probably in an effort to bring awareness to the awards by giving everyone to promote them. Of course. They will do the like judges. Yes. Winner. It's not a bunch of lunatics being nominated. It is like it's a panel that's put people forward. And then what boosts it is the audience voting. Which I think those are separate awards though. Oh my god. It's amazing. I think Webby's and signal have a listener's choice version of it. And then they also have your judged your judged winner based on a panel of experts. This is why you are a producer in the show because you know what you're talking about. And you're completely right as you say that. Well, and it's a little bit just an excuse probably to get two people to win awards so that they have. So that they both buy trophies. This is true. My point is over on our Instagram at FlightlessBroadPod and we're posted about this. But in the show notes for this episode, I'll essentially leave two links. We'll be listening click on the show notes and you can vote for us in drum roll. Please best in the arts and culture genre and best indie podcast. So look, please vote as this episode goes out. I think you've got about like three or four days to vote. So just like get in there and vote for us. That would be wonderful. It helps if we win awards, it just helps other people find the show, which helps the show. And it helps us when enticing people to come on the show. We can say we're signal and word winning podcasters legitimately that we reach out to people who probably have about 50 different podcasts chasing them. And if we can actually say we're one some shit, it helps us. And also, so vote yourself. But if you've got a significant other, you've got a parent, you've got a sibling. A cousin you haven't talked to in a while, ask them to vote too. This could be the way to reach out to a family member that you've been estranged from. Yes. This could be the thing. I love this podcast. Yeah. Maybe listen and have a thing about voting. Here's the link. Here's the link. Yeah. If you've got multiple email addresses, just feel free. We've got to cut a few notes to work. Yeah, we're not going to see not to do that. No, completely. Show notes, you'll see two links, we had a vote for both of those categories. It would mean a lot if you took 10 seconds to do it. Thank you so much. What if you get disqualified? I feel like they want us to do this. Yeah. Maybe on to even more important news. We're recording this on a Tuesday at an earlier time than usual 4 p.m. Because you are on a insane flight somewhere for something very specific. I want to date stamp this because we don't know what's going to happen. I've been on a wild ride the last couple of days. Just walk me through what's going on. The white socks are in the playoffs right now. They won the wild card round. They swept the Houston Astros two games, nothing. Now they have moved on to the ALDS. American League divisional series. I've never heard of this before. I'm glad to learn. There are currently eight teams left in the playoffs right now. White socks are one of them. And I was planning a trip anyways for Thursday morning. Yes. And then realized the white socks we're going to have game four at home. as part of the series. - So you were planning a trip entirely separate? - Yes. - To the sport and this team that you love. - Yes, yeah. - And I thought, well shit, I can change my flight to be a little bit earlier to Chicago, adjust my trip a hair, and go catch a home game in Chicago. - Simple. - It's a best of five series. You know what that means? - No idea. - The first to win three, at most there's gonna be five games. First to win three knocks, the other team out. - Okay. - And the flight was supposed to be Wednesday afternoon. So that I could land, have some time, go see the game Thursday afternoon. - Yep. - Easy. - Yes, both home games. - Yeah. This is what I heard from you when you were last in the same room together. - Yeah. - This was the plan that you lived on. - But the problem is game four is not guaranteed if either team wins three in a row. - So. - Enter a complication. - Enter a complication, the white sucks when the first two games of the series. So I've already changed this whole trip, arranged plans for it. My flight is in the middle of game three. So there's a chance if they win and sweep the series, I'm gonna land and there's no game and my whole trip to Chicago makes no sense. - It'll be deeply depressing. - For now. - Yeah. As much as you love Chicago, that's the one circumstance you don't wanna be landing there. - Yeah. - Which though, and then dealing with this conflicted thing of I obviously want my team to win. - You do. - I don't want them to lose any games ever. - I'm aware of this. - But a sweep means I can't go to the game. - Yeah, no. It's a treacherous sort of decision making process you have. - Yeah. So I made the decision to take a red eye tonight, changed my flight again for the third time in the past four days. - Red eye, one of my favorite horror films underrated, but really good. - Killian Murphy. - And I land tomorrow in Chicago at 5.15 AM. - What time's the game? - Games at 3 p.m. Central time. - That's a great, really specific time to fill. - Five a.m. - Yeah. - So really up to noon. - And a lot of the hotels are already booked in the area. I have family obviously nearby, but I wanna try to be close to the stadium so I can get a little more sleep if I need you. - Of course. - Of course. - But that is also the thing of I can't check into a hotel. That's 6 a.m. And then check out that 11 normally. - Why not? It's a horrific thing with hotels where you check in, you can check in about two or three and you have to check out it about 10 a.m. - Yeah. - Terrible. - Check in at 3, which is one of the game is. - Yeah. - Well, you'd have to like book two nights instead of one, which is insane if you're not gonna be there. - Which I'm not gonna do. - Yeah, okay. - So you're staying where? - I'm gonna go to my parents, which they live not close to the airport or the stadium. - But do you know how much they will love that they get to like take you in and have you arriving? - That will make them for four hours and then leave. - No, they'll love that. They'll have probably like treats provided. They'll have to like. - I think you are. - I'm thinking of my parents. I'm thinking of Pam. - Okay. - But no, they'll love that you're there. Wait, so just take me, just quickly. - Yeah. - Take me through the worst case and the best case of what is going on in folds over the next couple of days. - Worst case. - Yeah. - Worst case, they lose both games and I'm there for both of them. - Yeah, and you're just there sort of sad. - Yes. - Yeah, okay. - Best case, you pretty much have like the best time of your life. - Best case, yeah. They win tomorrow's game. - Yeah. - I'm at it. Great. - Yeah. - Second best case. They lose tomorrow and they win the next day. And I'm at it. - Both are kind of amazing. - Both are great. I'm planning to take my dad to the second game. I'm only going by myself to the first game. - It's not my friend. - Yeah, I have friends that are going as well though. - Yeah, well not. - It's the joy of like a mess sporting event like you're essentially there with a bunch of like friends you haven't met yet. You know, they're all around you. You're all cheering for the same team. It'll be great. - Well, and if you loved this little detour of this episode, we've we've been talking about doing, which I think most of our audience probably did not. Most of our audience, I probably would assume are not the biggest baseball fans. - Yeah, totally. - There's some, I'm sure. - There are definitely some out there, but we're not a sporting podcast. - No, but with that. - And people that I had close sports fans have gotten so annoyed by me at this point, they're late. - Yeah, but with that said, I've been trying to orchestrate, I think for the last three years that we do an episode kind of on the feeling of postseason baseball, take you to a game, try to get you excited about it. - Yes. - Because the energy at a live home game is totally different. - I've been to, I think only one white socks playoff game my entire life. 'Cause they last one in 2005, which I was in high school, I wasn't getting tickets to go to the World Series or playoff games. - I know you getting me to do these episodes on sport is difficult, but legitimately, I think getting in the atmosphere, I'm doubt. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Right, it is especially when you're around a bunch of people, especially in the climate at the moment where everything is sort of all full, as we record this, Trump is just sort of like made a joke about Iran wiping out Los Angeles and San Diego. - Well, I think any joy with people together, like loving being alive, I'm all fucking four. - Yeah, when you get more and more. - When you get 30 to 50,000 people in a stadium that are all, they're celebrating or dealing with something tragic together. - Yeah, it's a good together. - Yes, it's together. It doesn't matter. Left or right at that point. Everyone in that stadium closest I've had is at a show, a concert and I feel like sports. I think the thing where I honestly do get the appeal is the scale of sport and everyone just being on the same page is fucking great. - Yes. - And caring, like giving a shit. - Well, and this White Sox team is such a magical story this season. They're the first team in history they've won, they lost over 100 games the last three seasons. - Each season. - Yeah. - Which they play 162, so that's also the amount that they work, like it's crazy. - Yes, it is crazy. But they are like the complete underdogs coming into this season. They were not supposed to make the playoffs and they just have a really young fun team that and that energy is coming back to Chicago to the team and I have not been able to catch a home game. In Chicago, in that atmosphere, so. - Essentially, this is why you were taking a deathly horrific red eye tonight. - Yes. - Is your family coping okay with this? - With the changes and the shifts? - They know this is your thing. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. I had to maybe bribe Natalie with making a few extra school lunches. - Yeah. - This week and next week, good man. - Now this rolls, I'm excited for you and I wanna know, I do hope it, it's gonna be, I mean, obviously the team's amazing. You'll be great, you'll be great. You'll be fine. - That's awesome. - This is how I meet you're talking about sports. - You'll be great. You'll be fine. - Margaret Tso. - Margaret Tso. - My friend Amy, when I mentioned that Margaret Tso was on the show, she lost her shit. She's not a fan of anyone, but Margaret Tso for her, since she was a kid, has just been like the one. I most recently saw her and I didn't know she was gonna be in this, but I want your sex. Have you seen that film? - No, but I did see she was in that. 'Cause I was looking up her credits before we were doing this intro. She's 149 different credits, plus 11 more upcoming. She has done so much. - It's insane. - Yeah. - And she kind of seems a New Zealand reference would be calling her the energizer money. We had, we have that here. - Oh, do you? - Yeah. (laughing) - Energizer. - Okay. - We better stay in America. That'll be episode 303 energizer money. She just doesn't stop. Yeah, I mean, she uses so many things. I was looking at the number of comedy specials she's done on various networks. That is insane. - She played Kim Jong Un and Kim Jong Il on 30 Rock. - Yeah, right. - A show that I still need to watch, which is insane. I've only seen highlight rules. - Yep. - All American girl, dying for sex, separate from I want your sex. - Yeah, confusing. Hacks, High Maintenance, Dr. Deva. - Yeah, she's done a lot. - Yeah, Hacks was the last TV show I saw her on. I love that show. It was kind of incredible. There was a quote here I wrote down from Joan Buck, writing in W Magazine. I think it was a piece about modern day femme partels. She said not all women comedians are dangerous. Some are just very funny. Tina Fey and Amy Poler are too relatable. Joan Rivers was too firmly and sconsed in society that she mocked. Amy Schumer realized a little too much on the word pussy to be any kind of threat, though she would like very much to be a bad person. On the other hand, Sarah Silverman and Margaret Cho know no boundaries and inspire palpable fear anytime they begin one of their riffs. Which is just kind of an amazing summary of a lot of things. I don't know if I agree with all of it, but I really like the no-snow boundaries. And that palpable fear of what the fuck are you going to say? Yes, but also considering how much she's worked, how much she's done. She's clearly incredibly respected as a comedian too. She's got that fear. I met her a couple of years ago when she was at like a benefit show thing that I was at. And just when she came on stage, it was the first time because I haven't seen her do stand up in person. And when she took to the stage, [BLANK_AUDIO] So the thing we've run in the room, an LA, which is typically kind of unimpressed because they've seen everybody, everyone is just like paid attention and woke up, and that felt fucking cool. Anyway, she bought in her dog, we recorded this a few days ago, and this was our conversation. I'm going to start with a very silly question, but practical, can you just say your name and I guess a little bit about yourself and what you do? My name is Margaret Cho, I am a stand-up comedian and an actor, and I'm also an author sometimes, I'm a musician sometimes, playwright sometimes. I have three cats and my dog Lucia, who's here now, and I am on a show touring right now with a show called Chola Garkey, which is my nation, like I just turned the showroom into my nation for the night, and sort of what I would do if this was my country, and so I want my own Ola Garkey, so it's a Chola Garkey, because I love a pun with my name. We all have puns, roblobs, puns, puns are the best, they're the most funny thing that you can do, I think. I think Shakespeare said the highest form of humor. It's a pun. It's a pun. It's a pun. It's a pun. It's a pun. Yes. I feel like two things. But I would never make my insurance every year if I had-- Which is mad, isn't it? Yeah, because actors make so little, you know? But I didn't like big stuff coming in. But my residual texts are like $0.15. Is it low? I always see friends posting their residual checks as a joke, but it is just like that, right? You make pennies. I mean, if that-- I mean, some people make more. Obviously, if you're on a show like Friends, they do a couple of million dollars a year from residuals. But I mean, never had a show like that. So I make a little bit here, a little bit there, not enough to live, and certainly not enough to make insurance, but I think it's like you have to make $10,000 a year as an actor to make your insurance. You grew up in San Fran, right? Yeah, San Francisco, yes. They don't like it when you say San Fran, do they? No, they don't like Frisco. I always run into trouble when I'm talking about San Francisco. Have you said Frisco? That's what they do. They really bristle. I don't know why, because it's appropriate for Frisco. It sounds fun. It sounds great. It sounds like it's kind of like the big easy. It's a nice sort of little nickname. I don't know. But no, San Fran is totally acceptable. SF is also acceptable. But Frisco, for some reason, I don't know why. Obviously, it's changed a lot since you were born there. But what was it like back then? Because I feel like that kind of informed a lot about your opinions on America and who you are. Yeah. I love San Francisco. I loved one of my parents first came to America. They landed in San Francisco in 1964. And they bought a house right next to Golden Gate Park. And so what they would do in '67, '68, they would go down and they'd photograph all the hippies. So I have all of these albums filled with just random hippie weddings and hippie celebrations, which my parents weren't hippies, but they thought, oh, this is so interesting. My dad loved to take pictures. So he had a lot of photographs of people. And I mean, it just seems so free and beautiful. And then when I was a little bit older, the hate Ashbury, where we lived near were all the hippies where there was a lot of punk rock. And that was really visually really stimulating and scary, terrifying. Cool. What do you make of it? Yeah, I just loved it. Like they were always like by the record store with these huge mohawks, like spiky mohawks that they would stick up with egg whites to make them really, really spiky. And lots of like safety pins and safety pins and cheeks. And it was just so beautiful and cool. And were you perusing the record stores? Were you wandering by? Like what were you doing? Going in the record stores. And then my parents bought a gay bookstore in the pulp district in the '70s. So then I got switched over there. And then all the street uniform was handle bar moustaches and perfectly faded vintage denim, like 501s and 701s. Like perfectly faded with like a lot of like fading perfectly around the crotch area, the crotch and the wallet. So it was like these beautiful men with big moustaches and faded jeans. And you know, I just was fascinated by all the pageantry of these guys. And did that, was that environment growing up in that? Did it, was it quite freeing? And you were kind of going, oh, I can be whoever I want to be? Well, it made me think that everybody was gay. That gay was normal. What, yeah. Well, I think they are kind. I think everybody is kind of a little bit gay. Is a spectrum. Is a spectrum? Yeah, some people don't like to admit that. Is a spectrum. But it is that when you grow up in like a majority gay community, it's really, you start to think that everything, then you're like, you sent to yourself within the gay community and then everything else. It's like, is it gay or not gay? Like, is it cake or not gay? You know, it's very, it's very gay cake. Yeah. Are we done with those cake videos yet? Or are they still a thing? I feel like they were so, do you know the cake thing? Is it a cake? Is it the Netflix show? It was, it was that. And then it was before that it was like a meme. Like it was like a thing on the internet and the Netflix theme along and they're like, let's make a whole show out of this fucking thing. I feel like we've moved on, maybe. No, when they wheeled out the latest like Mitch McConnell, when they wheeled him out, that was the funniest thing that somebody wrote on Threads. They said, is it cake? Which is the best. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. 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There's a group of people that stay outside his residence as he leaves and as he comes back each day, just basically trying to communicate with him, saying like, Mitch, like, are you okay? Like, give us a sign. And mostly just this and then sometimes it thums up. What do you make, like, what do you make of this? I mean, he felt like he was a corpse years ago. He's been a corpse. I mean, it's just how disgusting our government is is that they would rather keep around a reanimated corpse than actually go through the trouble of maybe possibly getting a Democrat in there, maybe possibly actually losing the seat. So they'll like won't concede power, even though it means parading this literally dead person. I mean, it's so, come here, pup. I mean, it's so mad to me because it's sort of beyond parity because he does look like he's just not unresponsive. I thought for sure he was dead. Yeah. And he disappeared for a month. Did he seem like he was dead? They're just holding out and waiting. And then all those other politicians lying about, oh, I had a 20 minute conversation with him. And it was always 20 minutes. They were always talking to him for 20 minutes. Yeah, he can't have a 20 minute conversation. He can't have a one minute conversation. He's he is dead. And there's been a few moments where he's been questioned and he does that thing where he just completely lights out and he's just, I mean, it's outer abuse, right? It is, it is, it is, it is, it's outer abuse. It's elder abuse. abuse, but it's also just the ruthlessness of Republicans wanting to not concede power because they know that it's flipping out of their hands, and they're very little they can do about it. And they don't want to be held accountable for what they've been doing. No. I mean, we've talked about this a bit when we were talking about having on the show where you're like a, you're happily in America, like you dig being American. I love being in America. But I also feel like you are constantly pushing back and advocating for a variety of things. You obviously like very angry about something here in America. But I guess my question is, where do you sit as this country becomes to me increasingly confusing? How do you feel right now about this place? I still feel really good about America. I feel really good about the fact that, well, like today, you know, there was a huge protest against Netanyahu in front of the UN. And I think it's so cool that we live in a country where a list actors are being arrested, just standing up, you know, and saying what they feel and really standing up for Palestine, standing up for the right for this, this nation, this, this people to exist, just to exist. You know, and it's, it's, it's, bare essentials, but just to exist, you know, that's so, it's so powerful and beautiful that our star, our celebrities are willing to be arrested for this cause. That's America. That to me is American grit. That is American patriotism at its very best. I think it's, it's freedom of speech. It's, it's truly inspiring. So I, you know, I was really delighted about that and I think that, that definition of America gets lost in what we're talking about patriotism nowadays and what we're talking about, like, what is really American, what is really American power? Do you feel like you've seen this country shift in a huge way during your work in Korea? Because I feel like in your stand-up, you're away, you're responding to what's going on around you. Yes. Like how much change do you have, have you seen some that time? There's always felt like similar. It's felt similar. There's always been this struggle between the left and the right is sort of like conservatism and that sort of like the liberal side and a more progressive side and I've always found it to be something that we could live with. You know, like there was a, there was a struggle, but then I knew people who were conservatives that I could speak to. I used to, I used to go on Fox News when I was a much younger person like in them. You're right. In the Y2K era, like I would be on a panel with Ann Coulter. I was on Bill O'Reilly with Ann Coulter, and she- You're having these debates. Yeah, she would be at the end, so let's go have lunch. And it was possibly, I never did it, but it was a possibility. You know, there was something that I could do. I have a gift in my house, it was, it's a Ralph Stedman poster of With Nell and I, it's my favorite movie. And it was given to me by a guy named Nick Bugas, who is very, very notorious white supremacist cartoonist. Right. And I'm like, you know, these people, I knew, like that I had an email relationship with Jim Goad, who was very, very right wing, like was doing a lot of white supremacist stuff, was doing a lot of this kind of stuff that was so not my world, but as- Not your company. Because in America, I enjoyed his sense of humor, like I could hang out and have a drink with him. And that time period of people like that being able to associate with each other, we just can't. We just can't. Yeah. There's no dialogue happening whatsoever. Not anymore, because it's like the divide is so great that, you know, you, you could, I mean, I, of course, don't condone white supremacy and I, you know, I don't condone- I don't, I don't believe in any of that kind of stuff. But also there, there is a sort of term transgressive society that I enjoy. Like I enjoy people who are on the edges. I enjoy people that are just so different. And so I'm curious about their lives and I wouldn't explore their work and reach out to them. And then we build these friendships around sort of transgressive art and, and these books and things that maybe we shouldn't be reading, but we're reading and, you know, we're talking about. And so I mean, I, I, I feel like that's just not possible anymore. We can't actually communicate because the divide is too great. Yeah. I mean, I feel I'm guilty of that. I feel I'm so black and white about what I, who I give time to and the idea of sitting down and having some friendly dialogue with a white supremacist. Like one thing doing it for a, a, a work for a documentary or something like that, but the idea of that dialogue is almost like very foreign to me. So like it's kind of interesting hearing a mentality on that. There used to be this bookstore called the Muck Books, which is on Vermont Street. That was next to the Beastie Boy store, the extra large store. And so it was all these books that you just couldn't really get anywhere. And stuff that you probably like wouldn't seek out. But then it was just like very like transgressive and things like, you know, white supremacist literally like like the churner diaries and stuff like that literature that just like what is even this and, and all that kind of like Anton Levae's stuff and Satanism and everything. It was just a cure. I was a curious about it. So you would go in and buy those books and then you would meet these people and, you know, do all this kind of social stuff with them and then realize they were totally interesting. But then at the same time, they were also white supremacists. They were also like, you know, well, what the picture they make of you? Like, would they have it ahead? She's cool. She's one of the cool ones. She's cool. That's not like that. Like she's all right. Like, no, we really, we dig her. Like, that's all, it's funny how like when we actually can come together and sort of humanize it. And then like, you realize that the white supremacy is just a stick. It's just a kind of, it's a brand that they can get attention, that they can get worth. They feel sense of sense of worth feel like some sense of like importance in their world. Like a club. Yeah. It's a little club. And then they don't feel like they're so isolated when they're, I mean, if they can blame like people of color for all their problems, then it's just like, there's a reason. Maybe there's a reason. There's a reason like we can, we can be together and we can blame these people. But then when you actually build a relationship, they're not racist at all. They're like just, they're using it as a kind of a crutch or a kind of, I don't know. It's a culture that they want to belong to. And that is kind of American too. You're obviously very good though, like cutting through to different people because not everyone could do that. Yeah. I think if you can make me interested, if I'm curious about something, I can like, let a lot of stuff sort of go, like not be so guarded. Like also today, what happened was there was like this, this, the other side of me, which is very, very staunchly like intersectional and very, very like politicized in that way. There was this lesbian bar in Western Massachusetts, which is so progressive. Like it's so lesbian, it's so intersectional. So they have this bar that is, you have to wear a mask to go in because they're still COVID protocols. Right. So that we need to be safe as we can for everyone. Everyone because they're really, really catering to people who are immunocompromised, to those people who are disabled by that, you know, and they want a safe space for people to have connection in the bar. I also genuinely don't know where this is going, so I'm very curious about this. The bars said that they're going to decide maybe one day of the week that they're going to go mask optional and it costs such a revolt in the community that like the people are going to have to shut the bar down. Like it's like there are people are so angry that you're taking away the one COVID safe space in the, and then I'm like, I totally vibe with that. Like I totally get it. I'm like, yeah, that's wrong. But then also I believe in the owners, like they're just trying to make a book that Bill Bar is about to close and they need to do something to get more people in. And all they're saying is like no masks for one day. But of course the right has latched on to the story and just look saying, oh, look at all these like lib tards. Yeah. And dream story for them. They're all imploding over this mask free day, while the rest of us are going around without masks on. Have you followed this at all? This is new. This is like a great entire flight this birdie episode, like the culture around this. This is kind of crazy. It's very lesbian. It's very Western Massachusetts. And there's a lot of people from Western Massachusetts who are talking about how, oh, this is just an average day. This is how woke it is. You don't even know like it's like the woke Olympics of how deeply woke you can be how intersectional you can be. Yeah. So it's really, to me, like I love that too, but I also hate that now it's going to be weaponized by, you know, the right wing. Everybody else. Yeah. It does also feel like that example of like the left kind of, like not to make this boring political statement, but it like the left kind of eats itself right, like it just gets so up at some but whole. Yeah. Myself included. It all just gets like, come on guys, we're all basically on the same path. Let's not fight about something like this. Yeah. We just need to come together long enough to just get some power back and we need to like really have people in our corner that are not going to take the high road. The problem with Democrats is they want to take the high road and they want to do things right. They want to do things by the book. They want to, you know, utilize protocol and that's not possible with mega. No, no. It's just a big screaming wall coming at us. Yeah. You can't, you can't reason with mega because they cheat. They lie. They, um, bulldoze, you know, and so we need somebody really strong. We're both curious about the midterms coming up and what that's going to look like. Your dog is settled beautifully into that chair. She loves to be part of podcasts and she loves, um, being on talk shows and being, you know, just in the mix, like she's not afraid of the camera. No, not at all. Just being present. And she's got caught in the crossfire too. Like sometimes I've had issues where I've said something in the media and they'll, they'll right take offense at it. And the first thing they do is they threaten to murder her. Oh my, really? That's the thing. Isn't that sad? That's so horrific. The tiniest creature you could imagine. The most sweet. Could you, I mean, it's like, let's come on. I'm going to show you our audience. There's going to be zero death threats. It's, yeah, but it's not sad. The Canadians might come for you still. Yeah, the Canadians are especially. Yeah. Where are the Canadians at? We didn't episode about Canada and we didn't do Canada justice. You didn't episode on therapy clowns and backed milk. Yeah. I took a very specific angle. But Canadians, they like New Zealanders. They're very, I think, sensitive to their country being represented correctly. And especially with Canada at the moment, with America kind of looming over. It's a particularly defensive environment. Oh, anyway, that's our own little problem on the side. I love Canada. But I know. I know. Yeah. We did it. We did it. We did it. We did three Canada episodes. We're done three. You might do a fourth. You're interrupting our four Canada episodes. Oh, okay. Just going back to you growing up in in San Fran, you're admiring the punks with the egg and the egg weights in there here, spiky here. How did you get into like, when did you know you wanted to do into entertainment? But I guess stand up and disagree with your creativity. Really early. I started doing stand-up comedy when I was 14. 14. Yeah. I was doing it in school. Like, I was in a theater school and I had a teacher who would sign me up for open mic nights because San Francisco is a very big comedy town. You get a lot of comedy clubs. And so at that point, I had a partner when I was 14 to about 16. And it was the actor Sam Rockwell. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's brilliant. Yeah. Cool. So he and I were a comedy duo. At how old were you? We were between the ages of 14 and 60. So we were doing it for a while. What does your comedy focus on like age 14 at the time? We would pretend to be like an old married couple. It was so ridiculous. I mean, it was just like what you think like kids thinking what adults are doing. There's some footage of us on YouTube doing some sketches, which is really silly. But he's great. And he, of course, went on to become an incredibly famous actor. And you know, it's so talented and beautiful guy. But I really stuck with it. Like, I loved comedy. And I wanted to just do it and be an adult, which was most most of it. It's just going. You got the bag at 14 and you just went on. I just kept going. Got on television super early. Like I was on television by the time I was about 18. And there was a lot of like television, like comedy shows. There was stuff on MTV and VH one. And so I got to kind of make a living pretty quickly. What did your parents make of that? Well, they didn't understand it. And they were like freaked out by it. But then I started appearing on television so early that and I didn't need any help from them. I got on two years in a row for Bob Hope comedy special. And it was like a really big deal. It was like it's thing that they would show around Christmas where Bob Hope would pick like 10 comedians and then he would show them. So I got on it like two years in a row. And then yeah, at that point, my parents were like, oh, this is great. And then my father saw a fortune teller in Korea, a mudung, those Korean like shaman who dance on knives. No, I've seen that, but I know nothing besides the image. Oh, yeah. So they sometimes just they're dressing drag and they dance on top of knives with bare feet. And so my dad went to see one of those. And they said that I was going to be an internationally famous star in two years. And then he was like, oh, this is great. This is great. This is great. This is going to be great. And it happened, you know, pretty much completely. And so I've just kind of been doing that for about 45 years. Holy shit. It's pretty incredible. Yeah, it's cool. What excite you currently about like entertainment and what is out there? Because I feel like at this point, you've got your releasing albums, you've got stand up, you're acting like what gets you excited? Well, just the fact that news is so everywhere and that everybody knows what's going on. Yeah. And that is a really right place to write from as a comedian. Yes, like your audiences are all plugged in to everything. They're not going to miss something that has just happened. Yeah. So it's like pretty like last week was all about high rocks for people that might be scratching their heads about that. Do you just want to fool them in? This woman from Australia. She's not New Zealand. Not New Zealand. She's Polish, but she lives in Australia. She's competing for Australia. So she was in this competition where it's like CrossFit and she had diarrhea and it wasn't a little bit. It was a lot. It was down both legs. It was a lot. And her attitude was I'm going to keep going. Yeah, she was going to keep going and she ended up winning. But it's she won because all of the other athletes had to follow her because you have to all use the same equipment. So it was like it's incredible. Everything is covered in shirts. So they all had the seconds of hesitation before touching the equipment. One of them is a rowing machine that they had to get in that she had sat in and rode. So dropping down everything. It was like the shadow of her shit, the hesitation that it caused. That that's why she won. What she's since apologized for. She's apologized. She's changed her chin out of the outrage. Given the trophy up, she's given it to the person. The moment her attitude was I have trained for this. I'm not going to we all get hit with problems. I'm not going to let her stop me. I'm going to carry on. Well, she said a win is a win. A win is a win. And so my take on it as a committee was that's white supremacy. That's white because a person of color would never do that. A person of color would never would never even think that they were entitled to that. But that is like that is the thing about white people is that they just persevere and they go they get what they're what's theirs. And it's a we deserve a thing. We deserve it. And it's also I'm doing it. And I don't care at the expense of everybody else. And so it was a powerful thing to watch and witness and but also as a committee. It's great because everybody knows what it is. Yeah. So you couldn't have gone on stage like when you started and reference something that had just happened because people wouldn't necessarily know. Right. Whereas I mean, this is true. Like we just talked about Ed Sheeran before we started rolling and we all know what we're talking about. Everyone's on the same page because we're all just fucking plugged in. Yeah. And that's it. That's a great advantage to anybody who is trying to make comedy or write about what's happening at hand. So I think that's I appreciate that most of all as a median. Yeah. How a audience has changed over that time. Have they become more boszy and annoying or are they the same? There's always hecklers, but that's something that you just kind of deal with. And that's just a part of live performance. You can't control what people are going to do. That's all the same. I think people are kind of the same. They want to trust you. So you need to be in control of it. That's all that matter. You don't think you necessarily have to be funny, but you just have to be in charge. You said you're a tour. You're building a country that's run how you would do it. What are the things that are part of that? Why want universal healthcare? So you give everyone gets healthcare. Everybody gets healthcare. When they come to your show. Yes. I want everybody to get everybody to feel good. And I want everybody to have a living wage so that we can find out what people really want to do with their lives. I think if everybody had everybody had like a baseline living wage where you could live off this amount every every year. And then work was absolutely your choice to what you wanted to do. And I think that we would have a much more successful society. I think we would be very happy. We could be like Copenhagen. People write bikes, make a lot of really weird food, and really have a good time. People have a chance to actually figure out what they want to do as opposed to just being in the right race and hustling. Yeah, because some people might want to clean. Like some people might want to like detail things. Some people might want to cook. Some people might want to serve. Some people might you know, but like finding that desire and really like supporting that like allowing people to it might be like a little weird at first because people are just like what do I even want? Maybe like we could allow people to just do nothing. Yeah, but they're living their passions then which is much different. Yeah, let people find their passions. So many people don't really even discover what they want to do with their lives because they're so abound to like having to make a living. Well, we're just stuck in this. I mean, it's kind of like first year university. I feel like you have these revelations in your first year at university. We're like, what the fuck are we doing? Like, why do we have, why are we working eight hours a day for this thing? Like, why is it just a weekend? It's like zooming out from that. Yeah. Yeah. How are your audiences responding? Are they getting on board? It's good. It's good. It's really fun. It's really, and it's also just like talking about how much I hate Donald Trump and how much I hate this administration and how much I hate eyes. It's pretty weird out there. I mean, on the show, we touched on this, you know, we're sort of a fairly lighthearted podcast, but at times we get into the nitty gritty of what's going on. It is fucking insane. It's insane. And that's what I mean, that's what it's nice to be on the show because you're, I always see you out there advocating for things that very strongly let you're never quiet about stuff. And I feel, you know, you speak, you spoke earlier about how it's great seeing some actors protesting near who being in town. Whatever. But there are so many people not doing that. There's so many people that don't speak up. And so it's kind of amazing to see you doing this all the time. Thank you. Well, I have to. I mean, I want to, but I also have to. Like, to me, it's like a, it's about conscience. Like, I think, I think it's also very sad like that whole Ed Sheeran thing is really sad because he was such a beloved entertainer and he could have, if he had really took a stand and supported Malcolm or he would be even more beloved, we have all have a soft spot for a ginger anyway, a ginger who's made it, but just spite all odds. Yeah, they've come through completely. Yeah, you know, and I mean, I don't know what it's going to do for his career from this point, onward, but I do know that he missed a great opportunity. Yeah, it's so weird. I mean, he'll be fine because he's white and he'll just carry on. But also, you're right. Like, cynically, you could look at it. And if he had spoken up for Palestine, he would have done, he would have, people would have loved him. People would come on board. And he would have been doing the right thing as well. Right. But, you know, we spoke about this the other week. He just did every, him and his team did everything wrong. You could possibly dream of. Right. It's kind of wild to watch the whole thing unfolds. It's too bad. It's too bad. It's too bad because he could have really ratcheted up his legacy to put like a messianic point like in it. You know, I think for somebody like me, like I've just watched so business and they seem like all these different things like I wish that you could have stepped into that glory, but it's too bad. People have at least aligned against him and that has created some unity that we otherwise may not have gotten had this not happened with Macklemore. But he's sort of reminded people of how fucked up things and yet people going like, we're not into this. Yeah. But it's, I mean, it's nice for Macklemore. I mean, he, um, I thought it was just so amazing that now he's got this mural of himself in Gaza. You know, there's just, I didn't know that. In the rubble, in like the, the, they found like one space where they have a really beautiful mural of his face. And it's just, it's really poetic because it's just in this destroy all of the destruction and all of the rubble and all of the death around. And then they just took this time to create this portrait of Macklemore, somebody that is so far removed from where they are, but this artist who stood up for them is really, it's really beautiful. And Macklemore was an example of an artist that people weren't, a lot of people weren't exactly worshipping his music, but he stood up for something and people have come on board and Ed Sheeran's kind of the other way. He's like this generic music everyone loves. Right. But he's just stands for fucking nothing. Yeah. When you think about politics and like what is rewarded and what is kind of like really, people hate weakness, people despise it. And so it's very, yeah, it's really interesting. As you wrap up, do you have hope for where, because I'm sort of, I'm going back to New Zealand in December to renew my O1 visa. So I'm coming back for, you know, another three years. Yeah, good. And I'm always like, is America going to get this kind of like what's going to happen? How do you feel about this country that you love, but also a very cynical about certain elements of it? How do you feel? I think it's going to swing back. I think that we will get power back. If it doesn't happen in the midterms, it should happen soon after. Like, I think that people are realizing we can't do this anymore. Like patriarchy in general and the way that we allow rape culture to just exist, you know, and and now people are taking it into their own hands of like fighting back. There was this incident that happened, I think in 2024, where in Cornell, a frat house had guys from a frat house had taken advantage of this young woman and got her very drunk and then they raped her. And then they were doing in a group chat with the frat house. Like, come get this, you know, free pussy. And it was just this horrifying thing. And the punishment that they got was to write essays. So now people are spreading their names everywhere to make sure that these men will not have a peaceful day for the rest of their lives. They will follow them to their rest of their lives. You know, just like people are rallying around Nolan Wells and how all of the young men involved in his death. Even if the courts don't take on the case, we will be the court. So that kind of, it is kind of vigilanteism, but I think we need it at this point. So we were talking about how people, your comedy shows know everything that is going on in the conversation. People are aware of what's going on. But they're also aware that they can push back and fight back and not just kind of accept it. Yes. So that's to me the most American thing that can happen. It is let is true democracy. And that's what I really think makes me patriotic. You know, I love that about our spirit. And I love that about that's a very distinctly American thing. And I am continually inspired by that. So I feel like we're going to get things back. I think we're going to get things moving. And it will swing back the other pendulum will swing back the other way. Rob is always keeping me in check and telling me just that that things will swing back the next day. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just I'm a bit of a doomer at times. I think well, right now it's just that the swing on this side is so aggressive and so weird. I mean, you're Mitch McConnell, and we love to vote. Bruce and corrupt and willing to do whatever. And when it swings the other way, we don't necessarily fight by that those same rules. The thing about the pendulum theory is that more extreme is on one side that will be the equal amount of extremity on the other side. So I think it's going to swing back to the extreme. And you see like glimpses of that, like all those actors getting arrested today. Yeah. You know, that's a very exciting, you know, like thing that image that we're going to like see, oh, this is coming. This is coming. It's happening. I feel like New York is a little bubble of like excitement. Yeah. What's happening in there? That feels like an example of what can exist. Yeah, a few years ahead of us. Yeah. Kind of right. Yeah. And I love what Mom Donnie's doing. And like I love I love that it's catching on and that like Trump or someone love with him. That's the other way to think he kind of is right. So he doesn't make any fucking sense trying to throw down with him. He wants to be him. He wants to have that kind of like the thing is is that the people love Mom Donnie, not in the same way that people love Trump. Like also Trump hates his constituents. He hates Magga. He hates the people because he doesn't think they have any value. So he looks at someone like when Donnie and it's just like, no, this guy is actually people love him. He's famous. He's doing great. I admire him. He envies him. He envies it. Like it's so fucking weird, isn't it? It's like a really. It's so crazy. But like Fran Leibowitz said the most really astute thing. She said that if years ago, if none of this would have happened with Trump, if Meryl Streep had said hi to him one time, you know, if Meryl Streep had took the time to say, hey, Donald's great to see you. None of this would have ever happened. Well, they say that too about the Obama speech about him as well of how that just ignited this thing in him. Just chaos effect. Yeah. Yeah. And here we are. All petty. Where can we point people to to your work currently? What would you like people to consume most? You can pick one thing, don't be greedy. People can really like probably where I'm most active as Instagram. So Margaret underscored Cho and people can see where I'm doing what I'm doing, talking, seeing my dog, and where I'm playing. Jubilee advice. I've got a dog that I'm fostering at the moment and has a the masses, make my problem. He's creating a lot of sort of dick juice. I've never seen that. You've never seen that. I've never seen that either. Except for all of the photos you keep saying that he's in the derub. So unusual. I think it's because he's like a horny young kind of bulldog, but maybe he has some sort of infection. I need to talk to the vet about it. I regret bringing this up. Maybe he's just mirroring you as a human. No, you're just an owner. Like a UCI or something. Like maybe it's just like dogs. Apparently when they get they like they just it's like a secretion around their penis, which is like, I don't know what it's useful. I mean, every penis has smigmy. If you don't, that's why like you teach your kids, your boys like clean them, like the dog. But like you everyone has smigma, but this dog has excessive smigma and that's a problem probably like yeah neutering helps I just needed them. Yes. Yeah, so I think that'll help a lot. Okay, good because then it'll like you know You're sort of cutting off the the testosterone. Yeah, like the testosterone will be lessened all that stuff is less This is all hormonal So yeah, I just thought you've got dogs. I thought yeah, but I've never come across that but then I've always You above that no, no every every dog. I've had a male dog. I've had has been neutered before I got him Okay, so I've never had to deal with an intact male It's because you let him sleep on his back. Oh my god. He does sleep on his back like a little human It's so beautiful. He is beautiful. He's great. I'm sorry for bringing you into that conversation Thank you for coming in. Thank you. You're amazing. You're amazing. Thank you and your little dog is so sweet. Isn't she beautiful? Stay tuned for more flight this bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors She's fucking cool If you want more of Margaret Cho Her Instagram is just Margaret underscore Cho and it has a lot of her advocacy and comedy and if you like her dog She's got multiple pets. There's a lot of fat posting all the time. She's just lovely And if you haven't seen I want your sex yet She plays detective Zola and the movie's incredible and she's fucking cool And I feel like she's someone that if you don't know about her once you know about Margaret Cho She'll just be in all these shows that you've watched or about to watch I looked at the stuff that's coming out that she's already shot. There's like five things coming up Yeah, no 11. She has 11 credits really upcoming Yeah, it's insane. You know many things I have zero. Yeah, no, we've got a few time I we can start putting up coming flightless bird episodes on your IMDB Just so that people are like oh, he's got 50 things this year I do wonder sometimes about the culture of people who deeply edit their IMDB and wiki pages to make themselves Seen more exciting than they are, but we could do that with the podcast. Yeah, I've got 300 upcoming episodes of flightless bird They're very busy right now. Well, it's just Justifying that that you're not doing nothing David. You're working on a lot of this is true And it is relative to your IMDB professional profile Rob It's the nicest thing you've ever seen to me We had a lot of feedback Coming in so we did the moment episode. Yeah, some fun feedback for that a mild topic that we didn't think was going to listen much of a response And so I said a lot of actually really good feedback and fascinating I wanted to quickly touch on one bit of feedback from our second Creative 708 episode It's deeply specific, but it's an example and I thought this is interesting it's someone that is using it and they're having I guess for a like a good medical reason and they I just think it's interesting when you look at like a good case scenario Yeah, yeah, and it makes all the horror stories But well because we did focus so much on the negative impacts of it. It wouldn't Probably be super fair to ignore totally someone's having a positive Experience so anonymous and they wanted to be remain anonymous in this they say I never share the fact I use 708 I'm not addicted. I don't use it daily or physically abuse it It's a 100% medical to me. I have a rare form of juvenile Myoclonic epilepsy caused by a GABA receptor site mutation rendering 90% of medications in effective for me or causing paradoxical effects like more seizures, which isn't fun I never talk or reveal the fact I use this medically Just due to the stigma, but as a listener your podcast I wanted to share this with you. It's crazy to me how Potent the farmer industry propaganda has become sorry for the epping, but I just feel it's important that I share my story due to the attitude against it here And I will say this person went on to say before I forget that the whole gas station shots are all bullshit They deeply care for where they get their source from and how much it is et cetera So they're not advocating for like you've got the specific problem go to your gas station and check 20 shots of this shit most people like me use seven for medicinal purposes and aren't addicts I don't use it daily and I've never been physically addicted I get it from an online vendor who lab tests their product by a two different third-party labs Seven literally counts my nervous system when I get or is and prevents me from having seizures if I get or is and I can take it in time It also helps with the pain after a seizure I literally broke my scapula and they gave me nothing for pain when I checked out Seven saves me big time and was 100% medically for me I'm gonna stop there because it's a really long very specific message But I just sort of was worth saying that we heard from a few people that have like very specific conditions. Yeah Seven and Cradem helps them when they get it from a specific vendor, which is why the ban is Potential ban is panicking Some people well, I mean I think what I took away most from those episodes though is that one of the main issues With it it was just it being unregulated and where people were purchasing it. So yeah I don't think there is necessarily But I don't think we were trying to make the point that this should be banished from all cases agree completely just more that there should be a little A few more guardrails in the way of stopping just a 18-year-old from going to a gas station deciding. Yeah, I'm gonna Have this try this for a bit of fun. Yes So no, thanks for all the feedback as always your feedback to flight this bridge chat at gmo.com's always super thoughtful and Interesting and I didn't know about that particular condition. So thank you anonymous for writing in In regards to the Mormonism episode aka Church of Latter-day Saints Ann wrote in excellent episode on Mormonism. I'm an expert for myself. The guests you interviewed provided a well-rounded take A note on membership numbers as you guys noted in the New Zealand data the numbers the church provides are vastly different than the actual attendance It's difficult to remove your name from official church records once you've been baptized So most people don't go to the trouble and there's the church Persists here in Utah the number of people leaving the church who were born members like myself is high church members still make up a big Block of Utahans but less and less so Brian said I grew up in upstate New York the last county where Joseph Smith Postulated actually he and early Mormons were not exiled simply because of different views They had they were exiled because of the fraud and blasphemy of Joseph Smith himself Smith would go around to different towns trying to show that he possessed some of Jesus's characteristics Including the ability to walk on water. He was to do so during a sermon one morning in New York But what he did not know is that late the previous night a group of teenagers found the wooden beams Smith head To just blow the surface of the water and remove them the next day an unsuspecting Smith tried his party trick I need to almost drown and run directly out of town beginning his trek west. I want to say Brian I've verified that at all, but it's an amazing thing if accurate Don't sue me. Yeah, Mormon true. It's taking no accountability for that story That is all a Brian and Scott said I've been waiting and wondering when this episode would drop about Mormons be prepared for getting Possibly the most feedback you'll ever receive certainly have been in the episodes you've done on religions Defenders of the faith and critics alike will be coming out of the woodwork defenders Will be the most part happy with what they'll receive is a largely positive review of momentism Critics we utterly disappointed you didn't go deeper into the controversies. I personally think you overall did a great job Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I think that was where we needed to be careful to a lot I mean, I didn't realize one that we had so many either Mormon listeners or Out of Mormon. I had no idea. Yeah, but I mean, it's hard to do an episode on a religion and then Just be just respectful the whole time based on our beliefs, but that there is an interesting point there of maybe after the nice Version of certain things looking at more controversial elements as apart too. I mean, I think we were Pretty balanced in that. Yeah, and actually one thing Zachary wrote in who was our Mormon who had left with his wife Kelly and I Said the night before typical email from me. It's like so the episode's coming out tomorrow I forgot to tell you and he replied with some feedback which is having me for me to read out Said you fully misrepresented. Yeah, what the hell? How did you what did you do? Tortured my voice and had me say things I did not say here. What was the editing in that? I didn't mean that and I said my My wife Kelly was concerned when she saw that Terrell Gibbons was the other guest He and the episode was the scholar and also believer she was concerned because in ex Mormon circles He's definitely known as an apologist However, I think it worked out perfectly and props to you and your team's editing because things patchy and you're in the balanced and Terrell's credit he actually was pretty balanced like it wasn't a bigoted job to try and make him come across like he came across us. Um, he said for the first time in my life, I was able to watch, listen to myself and not cringe. That's always nice. You bring that out and people do that. I bring it out and people. Because I mean, they're cringing at you. I think it's probably what takes pressure off. They're so horrified by me that they feel better about themselves. I mean, it's that charm and it's that charming incompetency, right? Yes. So I were knowing to call it back to that. Uh, he said the view of the generic happy, kind moment is really interesting because there is definitely a pure element of that culture, but there's also a lot of masking and posturing because ultimately it is gospel of prosperity. As it serves to either pain, pressure, anxiety and put on a good face. And finally, he said, I kept waiting for someone else to correct you and Rob, but back in the Jehovah's Witness episode, and we did have a lot of people correct us on this or me on this. You talked about the movie Heretic and stated that they were Jehovah's Witnesses. They were actually Mormon missionaries. Um, Heretic, great horror film. If you haven't seen it, great fun and features. You grant. You grant. And Mormons and Mormons. Not Jehovah's Witnesses. Um, yeah. So Zach, thanks for that feedback. It was nice to get. It's always nice when people that take part in the episode, especially speaking critically about a religion that grew up and have positive feedback about things. Uh, if you have feedback for this episode, uh, about comedy, about Margaret Cho, about Roosevelt, about, um, Rob and I's relationship, we upflate this bread chat and gmail.com. Please vote for us. Yes. At the signal awards in the show notes. There are two links we can vote for each category. If you care for us, you will vote. Yeah. And you will try to entice others to vote. Yes. Um, aunts, uncles, nieces, friends, enemies, all the above. I think the most important person to try to get to vote is someone you haven't. Some of you lost touch with, yeah, over the years, maybe bridges that were, that were burned that you want to build back up again. Someone from school, maybe, um, maybe someone, um, you're, uh, another parent, an ex lover, an ex lover is good in ex, a spurred ex of some kind. Yeah. Uh, maybe, um, the minister of the religion that you left, um, reach out and say, Hey, I mean, thinking about you and I mean, thinking about this podcast, can you vote and then send them the link? Yeah. Yeah. Right. This bread chat at gmail.com. If you want to talk to us, we will see you over on Patreon on Thursday. When you drop a fresh app there, patreon.com slash for this bird. Uh, we're on YouTube. We're on YouTube. You can watch us on Spotify, less ads. We are everywhere, everywhere, everywhere you get your podcasts. Good luck with your flight. Red eye, I do not envy you at all. I hope you goddess an awful flight. I don't need you to keep saying that. Maybe load up the iPad with some viewing boring. I've got stuff. Yeah. Okay. Don't worry. You'll be good. Yeah. Good luck. Thanks. Bye.