Mandate Nation!

And on that note, I want to welcome everybody to the world. According to the man that will be here in a second, Benjamin Jeremy Stein. I want to welcome everybody that's in the rumble chat. I do or the rumble rants as it is known. I am still not from where yet we are getting familiar with rumble. And I'm not sure why I get 40 messages during the show of comments. And I'm not sure why I only see a few comments up on the rumble on the rumble side. So we are not ignoring anybody and we get to you right after the show. If so, I want to remind everybody of that. I also want to remind people, Ben Stein.substac.com. Also, please keep downloading that podcast. Even if you listen to the show, take your friends phone, take the world according to Ben Stein, download that podcast. And we are joined tonight by first time guests, hopefully a long time guest. Former SEAL team 2 leader, author of the book Never Enough, Mike Hayes. Welcome to the world of the corner, Ben Stein, Mike Hayes. -Juda, thank you, sir. And soon to appear, Ben Stein. Thank you as well. -Yeah, he's soon to appear. I promise you. I didn't. It wasn't like the great lie just to get a person like you, by the way. And thank you for your service, of course. That would be great, Gary, if we lied. -Yeah, we are. Our show is just a Ben Stein square. -Yeah, we were the Ben Stein celebrity fan club. And of course, we were joined tonight by regular here. Gary Collins, a man that served his country for over 20 years. And a man that has one of the best podcasts on all of podcast internet that downloads stuff. The thing is, Rumsos says, Al Gore invented the great internet. -Welcome. -Thank you, Gary Collins. -Thank you, thank you. And this man, Mike Hayes has been on there, too. -Yeah. And I encourage everybody to download that episode. And download, of course, all of Gary's episodes. Mike, before Ben gets here, why don't you tell people what your book never enough is about? -Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for asking. So, never enough sounds like it's about fame and fortune, but quite the contrary. The title is intentionally provocative. It's really about meaning and impact. I've been both very fortunate and very unfortunate in different ways in serving the nation for two decades throughout Iraq and the Afghanistan, etc. And also have run a defense director for defense policy and strategy in both the Bush and the Obama White House's and now in the private sector for almost 10 years. And through all of that, I've learned. And what I'm really passionate about now is sharing and giving back. And to that end, I'm donating all of the profits from never enough to a 501C3. And I started that pays off mortgages for Gold Star family. So, you know, guys like Gary and myself have buried far too many friends. I've personally, you know, and the seals we guys of my era have buried about 70 or 80 friends over time. And so now just really committed to helping those who bear the ultimate sacrifice or visible and invisible wounds associated with service. -And that's incredible stuff. And here is the man at the man of mysteries. -Yes, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. This is not nightmare of stay here in Malibu. I'm very, very sorry. God bless you all. -Only in America could somebody stay. Say it's been a nightmare of a stay here in Malibu. -Like, day, I said nightmare of stay in Malibu. -Either way. It might bear with you. I know. It's just pretty nice here. -And of course, I mean, this, this, this, this, this thing was gentlemen. -Yes, this, this thing was gentlemen is my case. My case, me, Ben Stein. -I don't know what you're saying. -Ben Stein. Thank you, sir. It's such a pleasure. Thanks for all the incredible meeting and impact that you've created for this great nation, my friend. -Well, God bless you for incredible courage. It takes a very little courage to hit a computer key. It doesn't, it takes a hell of a lot of courage. It takes a bullet. -Well, very well said. -Which, as I'm reading Mike has done, Mike, you've survived a lot of, a lot of your, obviously, your commander of SEAL team 2 in Afghanistan. You're, you're awarded the bronze star. You've, I mean, just an incredible, incredible stuff, what you've done for this country and we, and we all thank you. And Ben, he was sharing about his book. His new book is called Never Enough. -Wait. -And all the proceeds, Mike, are being donated or most of the, all of the proceeds and it goes to a 501(c)(3) that I started called the 1162 Foundation. 1162 is the day that Kennedy started the SEALs. -Oh, wow. -And so we pay off mortgages for Gold Star families. -Oh my God, that's incredibly great. That's what I would do. Would you a couple of times during the interview, I give us the address and so I never, for those pathetic old people who use the mail. -Done. -Absolutely. -Yes. And we are sending out an email, bless, tomorrow's, everybody could get the book. We encourage everybody to get the book. We will buy a few copies ourselves. And on that note, we didn't get a proper welcome welcome to the world. According to that man, Benjamin Jeremy Stein, actor writer, provocateur, saint, sinner, lover, father, grandfather, mafetist, his, that decision, master, master, chef, brilliant, writer, economist, and of course, most importantly, doctor, Benjamin Jeremy Stein. And we salute you, sir. -I do not use surgical tools. I just use my fingers and my fingernails. That's it. -And for the record one of my favorite. -No, I have a pussy. I did not use surgical tools. -And for the record one of my favorite books is that Ben has ever written was The Real Stars, which was a dedication to people like you, Mike, and people like Gary, and people that have served across our great nation. And who are the real stars of our country? -Not the people that we watched or nobody watched the other night at the Emmys. And. -Right. Benjamin, away that we used to watch the Emmys religiously because Ben Stein used to be on them and get awards. -Sure. -We used to watch them face. -So that's why we stopped. That's why our nation stopped watching the Emmys. And welcome back everybody. But the first things first, Ben, I wanted to get your opinion on a few things and I'll jump to Mike on this because I've been looking at this mandate nation thing. And I am not exactly. And Mike's book is about leadership. And it's about something our country sorely lacks right now. And there's this story out right now, Ben Stein, where our soldiers, if they choose not to get the vaccine, they. The Biden administration won't give them an honorable discharge. -Oh, that's impossible. -That cannot be. -No, that is be. That is what the administration stands in policy on. Is on it. Now, I understand that when you sign up, you're signing up for a lot. I don't think being. I didn't think being commanded to be vaccinated was one of them, Ben Stein. -Well, I don't. Let me just say, I think it's not the things that this administration's done. Are so much worse than that that I know I can't get as excited as you do. I mean, I think the blow is at the Constitution of the United States being taken by this administration are so devastating that if I may say so, they make this mandatory vaccination seem a bit trivial. Backing up from that, I want to repeat what we've said on this show over and over again. We've got this Congress with several hundred men and women sitting on their ass all day. And they could hold hearings on where the virus came from. Does the vaccine work? If it works, why are so many people getting the virus anyway? And is it really worthwhile to keep vaccinating people? Or is there some better way of approaching the control of this horrible disease? -Well, said Mike. So two things. Obviously, we have a lack of leadership in our country right now and that's putting it mildly. I mean, I'm being kind, Mike's the first time I want to sort of go ease into the world according to Ben Stein. And secondly, with this mandate of that soldiers get vaccinated. And I'm actually interested in your take on that and I'm interested in your take on the leadership that. Or whatever we have going on right now. -Yeah, I mean, two questions that are highly related. I mean, personally, I'm somebody who grew up and got the anthrax shot back in earlier in my career because everybody just. Nobody was forced to do it. We all just lined up and took a shot in the arm and did it. So, personally, I'll just tell you my exposing my own personal thoughts. I'm for a vaccine, but I also don't think we should have to be mandating vaccines. We should be leading. And I think what leadership is is looking at real data and saying, making great decisions with real data. And, you know, if you look at data, when you're somebody who, like myself, or like Gary or others who have served and you're willing to go on operations where you have IEDs and rockets and real bullets being shot at you, the chance of something happening from a vaccine is infinitesimally small. So I think, you know, I think what leadership is about is thinking about what's best for the nation, not just as an individual, but as a collective nation. And economically, we need to be strong. And so, defeating the enemy of COVID is really important for the nation. And so I think that that leads to a lot of things. leadership shouldn't be forced, it should be inspired. - That's a great point, Ben, as we're both in the 12th step world, it's attraction, not promotion. - Yeah, I agree, I would like to know what is that the Congress of the United States has going on that's so important that it can't hold hearings about where the virus came from, but where the vaccine came from, how it works, how come Mr. Feddochor Falsy has changed his mind so many times about the whole, about every aspect of the subject. And I mean, it wouldn't take very long to hold hearings about this, and I'd like to hear what you're on. That being said, when I see Mike, a man who has risked his life over and over and over again, and risked incredible cruel treatment, if Mr. treatment, if he were captured, and he was captured. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't hear that, oh my God, oh my God, like I haven't heard that. - I was the next segment, I was gonna ask him about that. - Well, anyway, I mean, as brave as he is, I think deserves leaders who are at least a little tiny bit brave in exposing to the world what is known and not known about COVID. - You're extremely right, Gary, you've been a little silent, and I want to thank you for bringing Mike to the show. Gary Collins does a lot for the show. And from the bottom of all our hearts in the Ben Stein universe, we thank you, Gary Collins. - Oh, you're very welcome. It's a privilege to be here and to learn from such people with such a rich history of life that I get to learn from. So it's a privilege for me to be here. So I'm lucky, is how I look at it. I'm lucky to meet people like Ben Stein, like Mike Hayes, and learn from them and understand for me, I'm like Mike, lead by example. And for me, when I signed up, I knew what I was signing up for. So if they told me how to get vaccinated, depending the thing is they moved the bar. If I sign up and I know what I'm getting myself into, but then they go, oh, by the way, it's gonna be experimental and it's gonna get rushed through it. It's never been done before. I'm like, wait a second. - And there are gonna be number of people who are gonna get sick. - Yeah, I'm like, wait. And statistically, the military tends to be young and healthier than the general public. So they're technically not in the risk group. It's a little tricky, but saying you will get it or we're going to dishonorably discharge you means two things to me. We're gonna ruin your military career and we're gonna ruin your private sector career 'cause that is a bad, bad mark in the public sector. And it means you will not get a job in the federal government ever again with that dishonorable. I've never met anyone who's got dishonorable discharge in the military who has worked for the government in a different avenue. Period, even as a contractor, I've never met him. So what they're doing is they're basically blackballing you and giving you a scarlet letter. That's just dirty. That's not how we do things in this country. I'm all for if you go, hey, you can take it or not, it's voluntary, but if you choose not, here's the road you may go down. We, you may have to eventually resign or leave, we'll give you another than honorable, which is fair. They're going about it the wrong way. It's, if the vaccine, if I may respectfully interrupt you my dear friend Gary, if the vaccine is that great and that important, I don't think you should have to beat people under somebody. I agree. Yeah, that's what I mean. I totally agree. Well, and the thing is we're going to ruin your life if you don't get it. That's a bit drastic. We're going to make sure we have a drastic impact on your ability to feed your family and yourself. That's bullshit. But I think, yeah. I think Ben and I've got a mic. I think this goes to the bigger point of, we have absolutely zero leadership in our country right now. Nobody knows what the heck is going on. We don't have data as we've discussed. We don't have, we don't have hearings. We have hearings on everything else known to man. But as we've brought up countless times, there have been, I mean, we have Fauci going lying in front of Rand Paul a few times, but we don't have hearings. And nobody knows what's going on. It's, I've never, the chaos that we feel is a country right now, Ben. This is just one part of it. Yeah, but one very important part of it, I wonder why are we not having hearings about what is basically the invasion of the United States of America from the Caribbean and from Central and South America. I mean, we've never been invaded by a foreign country since the war of 1812. And why is no one paying any attention to that? I mean, this is a pretty damn big event. And no one's paying any attention. It doesn't seem to have even registered upon the brain of our very ingenious president. It's our Mrs. Harris that we are being invaded by people who may have COVID, may have a criminal record, probably do. They're certainly not going to be able to be self-supporting. Why are we letting these people invade this country? And then on the flip side of that, if this country is so horrible that Black Lives Matter and all these other rabble-rousers groups can stir up a crowd by saying how much they hate America, as a racist, fascist, superprower, why do all these people want to come here? I mean, we're sort of in an odd place. If we're this horrible, why will people risk their lives to stay up to date and get here? And why are we letting people into a country that already has enough crime? Already has enough COVID. Why are we asking for more of it? - No, it's a lesson. - Ben, here's the irony though. This is what riles me. Not only are these people coming through the border unchecked. We don't know if they're terrorists, we don't know if they're COVID carriers, we know at least 20% are. If you're in the military, you don't get the vaccination, you get booted out and you get disarmable discharge. If you come in this country illegally, you're giving an NTA, which an NTA is nothing, I used to work the border. Means absolutely nothing, zero. It means you're here for free, have fun, is an NTA. I noticed you appear and you don't get vaccinated. - Wait, no, no, no, no. - Keep running Mike. He brings up Mike, the point he's bringing up, and this all goes to what your book's about and what you're about, which is leadership. There's absolutely, there's 100 things Mike at this moment we could bring up, that we're living in absolute chaos and Gary's point, and I think the point Brent brought up is that people in the military and people in America being mandated, they could lose work, get kicked out of the military if we don't get vaccinated. We're being, the border is being, and they're not forced to be vaccinated. That's the Mike. - I'd like to, I can't start if we made double back the Mike, because I mean, we talking head nobody's, just. - Well, that's why I was about to go to Mike. - I'm a computer, I really should be doing this so while kneeling the Mike. I would like to know, what does the current scene in America bring up in your mind, as you think about situations where you're repeatedly thrown into the line of fire, where you could at any instant, have been killed. So, I mean, what do you think about, what do you think about what's going on here as a person who has repeatedly risked his life for this country? - Yeah, Judah and Ben, I mean, great topic. I think, you know, one of the most important things is, I'm reminded of what my econ professor said in grad school, hey Mike, beware of fast trains to the wrong station. - Oh, okay. - You know, it's like, what's the, when I think about, I think where we're going, it's vision is where you're going. Strategy is how you're going to get there and then execution is just the day by day work that it takes to go achieve the vision. So the thing I would start with for the nation is we really have to have that, what is the common vision? Look, we're never going to align 330 million Americans. Of course not. That's what our nation, our nation is built on healthy conflict, not unhealthy conflict. Right now we have way too much unhealthy conflict. You know, when I was the commander of a SEAL team in Afghanistan, I was the last person to decide what operations we go on and whether we drop a bomb on ultimately a drop on people or buildings, et cetera. It's not something that I'm like proud or not proud of. It was my job and I was, I had to do my job very well and what I did in order to, you know, lead through that was to build conflict into the decision making process. And so what I mean by that is, you know, if I surrounded myself with people that all thought like me, I would have groupthink and likely make mistakes. But by hiring, hiring if you will, people who don't think like me and surrounding themselves and being open to other ideas and viewpoints, you're going to make a better decision. And so what's missing for me today is really that ability to surround ourselves with people who may or may not think like us because we'll make stronger, better decisions for the nation right now. It's just to polarize. And so how do we, how do we have healthy conflict is really where we got to get back to? I make, can I just say, I think we do have a lot of conflict in this country and there's certainly many, many people who disagree with almost every single word that is said by Mr. Biden and Mr. Harris or their gangster friends. But the media, which is an incredibly powerful force, is just an echo chamber for the Biden's and for the Democrats. So what I wonder is when an incredibly brave man like you sees the people on TV smashing America and slashing America, saying we're an terrible racist fascist country, it says, how does that make you feel? - Yeah, look, it hurts. I mean, because that's not who we are. That's not the foundation of America. And so when we think about what the nation needs to be, it is equality. It is coming together to achieve common goals. Go back to our forefathers and what we'll rebuild on. The unifying principles of this nation really are what are sacred. And that's what we're losing side of that. That's kind of that vision point Ben that I was trying to get at earlier, but not nearly as eloquently as you or Judy or Gary. - Now you got at it perfectly, but my question to you is, how are people, how do you think the troops feel right now as they see it? To take Ben's step point one step further, if you're serving our country and you're watching what's going on in our country has been brought up with people hating it. For a long time, it's been the case. I don't know if it's been as bad as it is now, Ben could answer that too, but it must hurt if you're serving our country to watch what's going on. - You know, it's a great topic, Judy, because on the thing that everybody fights for in the military is for people all 330 million Americans to be able to have their own opinion. And so while other people may not agree with what we as individuals may agree on, the fact is that the reason that we risk our lives is to have that healthy disagreement. And right now it's unhealthy. It's absolutely unhealthy. And when you look at first, it's like, let's look at political party first and then argument second, you know, Ben, you're going back to your lawyer days. I mean, logic needs to win the day, data needs to win the day. And that's, we're just not there. - Well, we're not, I would like to respectfully tell you, sir, as a person who is indeed aware, there's not that much logic and very little decency or truth in what it goes on in litigation either. It's really a lot of it is trickery and deceit. And so I hate to say that, but not a little bit, but a lot of it. Anyway, I just want to, I mean, I want to go get back this. You're out in the field somewhere. Say, helicopter has dropped you somewhere. You're carrying, I don't know what kind of weapon you carry. I'm kind of scary thing like an M4. And around you, you've been told are lots and lots of hostile enemy terrorists. They want to kill you. That's their job today. Today's job is to kill my case and his friends. And you are thinking about your family and your country. And so what specifically are you really thinking about about America or are you thinking about? But it was like being in high school, if you're on the high school football team, it was like being in high school. You got a date with a captain and cheerleaders. I assume you had female cheerleaders in your day. Maybe you didn't, I don't know. But what were you thinking of? What were you thinking of that is America? If you, what is America to a man who's going into the field and possibly about to breathe his last for America? What is America? Yeah, well, you know, Ben, I've written hundreds of emails to my wife and daughter that let them know how much I love them, but also that didn't freak them out. Just in case it was that last email that I ever wrote. And the number of times that I and many service members, I'm not any more special than anybody else who's served overseas and worn the uniform. But getting in a vehicle around a helicopter when you're not sure if you're going to be hit some roadside bomb, the number of times I've actually wondered, well, I even know that I died is countless. It really is. And then you just box it out and you put it out of your head. That's what you have to do. But to answer your question, it's really-- so America is a course about our family's back home. Whatever family means to every individual, whether it's parents, brothers, sisters, different people are different ages and have different connections back home. So whatever that is, but then you very quickly have to have your head 100% in the here and now so that you maximize your probability for success on your mission. And the thing that I just turned 50 a few months ago. You're looking at this. Very, very much, John Greg. You look very, very, very much John Greg. 50's the new 20 or something like that. It's a new one. It's a new one to you, too. But no, but overseas, my seal teammates would have probably shot me if I used the L word in the seals. Love. The word that we have trouble saying, when we're 25 years old in a seal. But the reason that we take the risk that we do, it is not for some principle or some ideology or apple pie and Chevrolet. It is for the teammate that is with you on the mission. That is who you're working for. And that is the ultimate thing that drives us is to make sure that we all do the best that we can on any given mission and accomplish whatever we're trying to do. But at the same time, bring everybody back safe and sound with all 10 fingers and tentos. And on that note, if you just tuned in, you are listening to the world, according to Ben Stein. And this is, I got to say, a special episode tonight. We're joined by former commander of SEAL Team 2, author of the book. author of the book, Never Enough, and Navy SEAL Commander on Living, Life of Excellence, Agility, and Meaning. You can find it on Amazon.com, all of the profits. Go to the 1162 foundation charity. Then Mike has started to help Gold Star families, which I think is just incredibly-- just incredible. So I mean, it's enough to say about you, Mike. And we will be sending out an email tomorrow of where people can find the book Never Enough. I want to remind everybody to Ben Stein.substack.com. So when we send out that email tomorrow, you'll know where to buy it. Remind everybody to please get the debt. Continue to download the podcast. Yes, Ben. We just like to go back. So I'm asking Mike, if I may-- I know, but I wanted to give him a plug, like we said. So go ahead, Ben. You're-- what countries that had hostile force in it? I mean, to do so, and if you can tell. Yeah. Beginning of my career was in South America. In the-- Where? Where, in South America? I've served in Panama and Chile, El Salvador, Peru. What were you doing in Chile? We were training the Chilean-- Bousso's Tactico is the tactical divers. They're kind of our equivalent, if you will, in Chile. Oh, were you in combat in the South America? Oh, no, no, no. That was just working counter-exchange training with our counterparts. What were the pledged countries where you were actually in combat? Well, Coast of O pre 9/11. And we were doing special reconnaissance missions. So I wouldn't necessarily call it combat, although on a couple of missions, there was gunfire, exchange, or whatever. But that was nothing compared to Coast 9/11. I've got a lot of time in both Iraq and Afghanistan, Ben. So you were sent into Iraq during-- Which war? Which one of the wars in Iraq? I was in 2006 and 2007, where my predominantly my Iraq time. I see. OK. So you're there in Iraq. It's hottest places. It gave in Gary Collins. Do I imagine it can take any kind of climate at all? Would be suffering. You're there and you're walking around carefully, making a load target. You gave someone to look following you with a telescopic site. And you're thinking to yourself, I've got to do this for Mr. Smith, Mr. Jones, Mr. Green, Mr. Howell. And all the people I love in my group. And then are you thinking to yourself, I've got to get them home so that they can do what? Do what? Be with their families. Get a chocolate milkshake. Do what? I want to go back to sign. Know your Mr. Smith before. What is America to you? Yeah. Well, look, I think it's opportunity. It's the opportunity to pursue whatever dreams and passions each of those teammates have. I want everybody to come home and be able to see what is the America that you want? That's what I'm asking. What is the America to want? I look, I'd like everybody to have the ability to go pursue not just a profession where they draw energy from, they get paid well from, they have a good standard of living that we're constantly improving. And then have a lot of fun doing it. Like the life is too short. I've got, like I said, many near-death experiences. And if there's anything I've learned, it's given me perspective to really appreciate every single day. And we need to maximize how much fun we have on every one of those days. OK, so there, my dear friend and producer and veteran of the show, Judith and my everyman, is some very fancy thinking. And I love it a lot. And then we, in addition to our work, which we try to protect and defend the constitution of the United States, we've got to have fun every day. And I think trying to have our families have fun every day. My son is a young man, 35 or 36 years old, which he has a great friend named Matt Barnes. He has a very close relative. In a considerable health risk, we're praying for the people. person and I felt all of our friends in Ben Stein, Judah, Friedman, World are praying and also of course Gary, World are praying for him too. What and you have a daughter, how is your daughter? 20. What would you like her to be doing today? Whatever she decides that she wants her path to be. But just today, you said you wanted to have a good time today. What was that thing? Well, look right now she's in college and so like all of us, when we're 20, what the heck do we know? I know when I was 20, I had no freaking clue what I was going to be when I grew up and so like, like I like to say, I always working on my foundation, I can build the walls in the roof later. Let me ask you a question. Are you more scared of having a daughter in college or when you were a seal? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it was, you know, definitely years, you know, I'll take you in answer door age, you know. And and and Ben, the point Ben is, is people have forgotten what it is we thought we fight for what it is we're here for what it is we live for. And Ben, it's to your greater point and Gary, I'll go to you people, we've lost our way of what's so important to what what this country is and what this country represents that people are literally everybody's trying to get in. And where we have a bunch of people here that don't leave and are complaining about it. And they're really missing the point. It's an it's just a simple point, Gary. Yeah. If I can go back real quick with what Mike said, because I know this is hard to understand. And me and Mike, it'll bunch of people will always talk about, if you ever been in the military law enforcement, it's weird because everyone always asks you what you think of your country at the time. The least political I ever was was in the military and law enforcement because I had one job to do and that was the mission and protect the people around me. That was the focus. Get the job done. Politics be damned. It does not matter. And see, that's what people understand is you might think that it creeps in and it does a bit. But also me and Mike were pre social media for the most part. So when I was in social media was coming around, but you weren't allowed to have social media accounts because when me and Mike were in technically, you were not allowed to discuss political views while in uniform. Not even not even in your barracks. If you're alone, sure, if you're in uniform and it was you were encouraged not to discuss politics while in uniform and especially while in uniform and in public. That would get you a nasty note to your commanding officer. Or barracks. I'm out of your barracks. Can you talk about parent politics? Absolutely. When we were alone and in groups away from, you know, we were in the barracks or we're out at the E club or bar having a few beers. Sure. But when you're in uniform, you're doing the job. You represent your country or wearing that flag on your sleeve. You keep your politics to yourself. Period. That's how it was then. Things have changed. Now people can speak their political views and they're getting their ass in all kinds of trouble. And I would recommend they keep their mouth shut. Do your job. If you don't like it, leave. That's what I would recommend. It's easier said than done. It's easier said and done. But it was a different time then it's hard to explain because for I don't like to use the civilian word because people kid a little offended. But you just it's a different world. We worked and lived in a completely different world than someone who went to work every day in a nine to five. It's just a I can't explain it unless you're there. It's hard to explain. But you're carrying a gun. That's one different. Right. Well, absolutely. That's why I mean it's just a different world of you have your views. But your views don't matter because again, your main job is mission and protect those around you. Everything else. That is your focus. Once you lose that focus, you put everyone yourself and everyone around you at risk. That's how it is. So politics need to stay out of when you're in that. Trust me, I'm sure Mike would agree that if you're in a firefight, the last thing you're seeing is God damn Biden. I can't but that thought is never crossing your mind at all. So not like at work where I'm at the water cooler pissed off because I've been on social media for the first 30 minutes of work. You know, troll. That's actually an interesting point, Mike. How is social media changed? Because I'm sure many many a soldier is on social media. They can't not be and they're being inundated with what's going on and they see and I think that is a big difference of when you serve is you're not actually, you know, I don't know how many when you were serving how many newspapers you got, what radio you were listening to. But now everything is at their fingertips. And that's got to be a really different experience. And in just a 15 year or however long you you've been out, Mike. Yeah, no, so I retired in 2013 and I'm sure it's I've stayed very close to the to the SEAL community of course, but in Department of Defense writ large. But the I think, you know, Gary raises the main point, which is, you know, my daughter is a digital native. I am not a digital, you know, I've grown up trying to stay off of, you know, social media. And what's been challenging candidly is when I wrote this book, I wasn't on Instagram until four months ago. Now I'm like, Hey, how do I get as many followers as I can? Why? Because I am trying to push the book out there. Yeah, I could care less about my name up in lights. Like genuinely, it's just not who I am. Do I, but that that said, I really, I poured my heart and soul into this book and it all the profits are paying off mortgages for Gold Star families. And in today's day and age, if you're not pushing things on like Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, whatever, you're just not going to be as successful. And so it's really hard to reconcile not to your questions, Judah. I think that, you know, the sign of the sign of great countries or organizations are how they change their ability to change. You know, if you look back, when the bicycle was first invented, you know, all the parents were really concerned because their kids could now leave town and they could be further away. They could be five miles away instead of a mile away. You know, and so, you know, when the bike was invented, it was like, oh, no, you know, that was a challenge for parents. And then it's the, now it's cell phones. And so I think that there's a little bit of a, um, a constant through time dealing with new things. And I think the military has had a hard time with social media because ultimately everybody's paid to have judgment. However, you know, when you're 19 or you're 21, we don't necessarily have we haven't, we haven't done enough wrong in our lives yet to learn and gather that wisdom and know what judgment really is. And that's, that's, that's, that's, you will. Yeah. I mean, I may ask you, I get another question. You're in the military and you're, uh, you're, you're carrying a gun around in some scary place where there are people trying to kill you. And you, I don't know what newspapers you get. If any, if you don't get any new papers from you're at your station abroad, or maybe you don't get any when you're stationed in the US, I don't know what you got. And you're reading the business section and you read about someone who had just made a billion dollars for starting a company and it makes something, or has some process that you don't even knew a young man with considerable technical background to understand. And you're thinking, you're such a few guys. I don't even know how I'm going to have a month, I'm going to pay my, uh, car insurance and my mortgage and my, uh, daughter's tuition all this month. And this guy just made a billion and a half dollars for thinking of something. And I can't even understand what it is. Uh, how does that make you feel? I'm just not making you feel one way or the other. You know, there's mixed emotions with that, of course, because it's the, uh, you know, on the one hand, let me take the mature view, which is hard to have. But hey, that person's going to pay a hell of a lot more taxes than I am. And those taxes are going to, you know, ultimately fund a strong organization for a strong nation. You know, when we go back to, to gross domestic product GDP is just labor times productivity. That equals the total economic output of the nation. So while we can hold up groups like the seals and say we're very special, the truth is the thing that's the most special for the nation is more GDP because that's how we pull the whole nation up. And that's, that's what makes us stronger. And so, you know, that, that new idea been that just did something that created a whole lot of economic value in the world. It hopefully made us more productive as a nation because we, you know, then we have, we do have more value. And so that it does lift the whole country up. So I think the, the antithesis to what you're saying is that we don't have that. And I think what we'd be worse off. So while I wish that was me with the billion and a half like idea, you know, the truth is I'm glad somebody's making the nation better. You know, it's, it's, you know, I also hope that that person is spending some of that billion and a half on, on people and, and organizations around him or her that are going to make this place greater. Do you ever look at, thank you, you ever drive down the street? I don't know. I don't want you to be kidnapped or shot at or anything, but what mass is roughly what part of the country you live in? Oh, I mean, Westport, Connecticut right now. Oh, to hell. To be exact, he's, he's, he'll get about the address on the next episode. It's a very, very nice neighborhood. Do you ever drive down the street in Westport or Bridgeport or any other, any neighborhoods around there? And she homeless people and think yourself, what the hell is happening in my country that I've fought so hard for and risked my life for why, where do all these homeless people come from? What, what's happened to our country? Yeah, of course. It's, you know, whether it starts with doubt, use or education or access to health care, of course, it's really challenging because really what you want is all of those people to not be in a situation where they have to be on the side of the road without a home. You want to see them creating something and making this nation stronger, building something, be working, be learning, be improving this nation. That's just untapped going back to that GDP formula. That's a labor that's potential labor that's not being utilized. I should just mention, maybe it's mental illness, just being expressed in the open air. That's very true too. On that note, I want to welcome everybody that's been listening to the world according to that man, Benjamin Jeremy Stein. We are joined tonight by Mike Hayes. We are very honored to be here. We are the former secretary of the former commander of SEAL team 2 who has a red flag. We know that it's all that you're wrecked. Our retired is a commander. That was your job. Any as a book called Never Enough, you can find that on Amazon. Also, it's never enough in Navy SEAL commander. I'm living a life of excellent agility and meaning. And of course, you're joined tonight by Gary Collins from the simplelifenow.com who without Gary's help, Mike Hayes being on the show wouldn't be possible. So Mike, to Ben's questioning, it says here you've held the gunpoint and threatened with execution. Where was this? That was in Lima, Peru in 1996. That wasn't the place I was expecting to hear that from. No, I was expecting Afghanistan. But it do tell since Lima, Peru. Yeah. Well, we were, we the SEALs were again doing what we did during those, during the 90s, which was go down and work with our counterparts. And the in Peru, there was, in fact, the the Sndera Illuminoso, the shining path was a terrorist organization during that era. And the leader, Guzmán was his last name. And I believe I read the past away just a few weeks ago, but Guzmán was locked up in like just a couple hundred yards away from the Peruvian SEALs base. And myself and one other SEAL were going to dinner and a couple of cop cars pinned us in very, very rapidly. And we were just peacefully supposed to be eating dinner. And these guys dressed as cops totally got the jump on us. And I'll never forget it. But like a finger was on the trigger and the weapon was off of safe. And this guy hit me in the back of the head a few times with the muzzle. And I was just lucky that he didn't jerk around off and send it and put me down. So all you could really do in that situation was was think about what can I do to maximize my probability of living here and at age, whatever I was, 25 or something. I had the opportunity to jump out of this car while we were speeding down the road. And I would have lived, but I'm pretty sure they would have killed my my swim buddy, a guy named Ken. And I remember very vividly thinking I could never live with myself if I lived in in caused Ken to die. So these are tests, you know, as we as we age, we get we're fortunate to be, you know, be to have hard days and to learn from them. And so that's again, the passion that you pour back into the book and share with others are some of the learnings that that formulate some of the underpinnings of never enough. I mean, I don't think you answered. I don't think you answered Jewish question with all due respect. The guy is holding a gun to you and threaten your head and threatening to kill you. What are you thinking? Well, first of all, Ben, I probably didn't answer the question because I did spend two years in DC. I'm really good at not answering the question that I was asked. It's almost ingrained in me, but no, just kidding around. Two years too long, Mike. We got to get you back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I look, the brain becomes a super computer. Of course I thought about, oh my gosh, I didn't worry about myself. I was engaged at the time. My wife almost 25 years now, but I remember thinking how hard it was going to be for the family that I left behind. And then I'm fluent in Spanish and they were asking me, it was just really some threatening me with some horrific types of torture. All you can do is, again, don't look at the people who are in the car so they put them in a situation where they had to kill you and just all the little things that you can do and I could go into what they all are. But that's not really the point of the story. But we just said, hey, we're economists, we're desk workers. We're just here on an economic assignment and we're out eating dinner and just talked our way out of it. It was turned out fine. Okay, so I have a question. Really, really impressive. I have a question for all three of you. Since you both you've served, but everybody here has worked for the government and everybody in this panel has stopped working for the government. And I'm curious from each of you why it has been signed, you had a very big, I mean, your career trajectory in many ways, obviously writing for Nixon Ford, but also with the FTC. And you gave up that, you gave up government life and I'm just why? Well, let me back up and say I'm very enchanted by the fact that you thought of the most harmless thing that you could possibly tell anyone was your economist. I don't know. You were considering pens in the communist, I know. I gave up government work because I was offered a very good job at the Wall Street Journal and I had my own column at the Wall Street Journal before I was 30 years old, which I thought pretty good. And so I jumped out of it. And also I wanted to live in New York and be near all the chorus girls and the acts of ism so forth. And then I wanted to move from there to Hollywood and be near all the starlets. And a common thread of the life of Ben Stein. But no, I mean, and Gary, and the reason I'm bringing this up is because Ben, you don't have, I mean, Gary, you got a little turned off by working for government. You saw stuff that you couldn't agree with anymore and you were at your witsend and you decided to leave. And how do you look back on that decision and do you miss it at all? No, I don't. And here's why and I don't want it to come out. I had to experience all the things I experienced to be the person I am. Do not regret any of the decisions. I do not regret serving my country in one form or any shape in any way. Period. And people need to understand that. There comes a point. Everyone comes to a point in their career when they know it's time to go. It's just me and my boss has all agreed. It was time for me to go. No, but I decided. I said, you know what, I've done all I can do here. I think I can do more to help people and be a better person outside of this. You can only do it for so long. And I'm a busy body. You guys know that my mind's on 24/7. I done the job and I done it as much as I could do it to where I don't think there was a whole lot for me to learn besides being political. I had to move up the chain and I'm on that's not me. I'm a doer. I like being in the field. I like doing I like getting my hands dirty and it was time. I don't know. It's different for everyone. But I see my that's why I see Mike raise shaking his head. So I'm just getting Mike's perspective on it. And Mike, I have one more question before I forget the plan on running for office. Well, I will sir, my answer to the question, Judah will kind of answer that. The look, for me, I spent, you know, 20 years in the seals and, you know, joined right out of college. My seal training class started with 120 guys, 19 fit finished and that's, I was saying almost every class. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. That's incredible. That's incredible. That's incredible. Wow. But it's amazing. It's no different than any other seal. I'm no, and so just. I'm sure we hear of this. It's incredible. That's really amazing. Well, the guys I worked with were amazing and it was just, I learned from them every day, every day you come to work was energized. I also had some atypical experiences. The Navy picks one officer per year for two years of fully funded graduate school. I was that lucky person and got to do an awesome grad school program in Cambridge Mass. And then later, then three straight years in Iraq for the most part. And then I applied for the White House fellowship. So they start with about 3,000 applicants and through a series of interviews, they're 14 or picked each year. And then you land at an atypical young age running in a real job. I was the director for defense policy and strategy called the tail end of the Bush administration. And I was one of the few people that transitioned through to Obama because I was not a political appointee. And so at mid in my mid 30s, I'm running or attending lots of meetings in the White House situation room. And so, you know, then for me, after 20, my time in the White House was really, really instructive in both administrations. The thing I'm droning on too long here, but the gist of the answer is not at all. Well, the gist of the answer is like, I saw a lot of people. who know the public sector and I saw a lot of people who know the private sector. I know those are very broad terms, but I saw very few people who knew both. And I thought, you know, after 20 years, my being a commanding officer of a SEAL team and running things in Afghanistan, I was like, 20 years is a natural inflection point. There's a weight like Gary said, there's way too much to go do. Let me go get a really good chapter in the private sector. And then Judith, your sharp and appreciated question, look, I'm not I'm open to service. You know, later in life, I will serve the nation again. I have no, I genuinely don't sit here and say, I'm going to run, not run, appointed position or whatever. I will serve the nation in my last lap and whatever that is. But it's not not anytime, anytime soon. I'm really trying to gather a bunch of experience right now. And frankly, also build the balance sheet a little bit so I can get back to, you know, some underpaid government job. And I will give you, I look at the bed. I will give you one tip. When you do run, don't give the Washington answers. Be you my case because you're amazing individual. We don't do, we don't need any more Washington answers. Ben's time. I'm trying not to, Judith, give me some feedback, man. If my answer is no, you're great. Mike, you're at, no, you brought it up. You said you're giving Washington answers. That's why I said it. You're great. You're, I mean, the bottom of my heart. I'm going to ask about spirituality in your life. You're in this hellhole in South America. The pointing of gun at your head, saying they're going to kill you. What are you praying? And if so, what are your primary spiritual resources that you draw upon or are you not praying, just thinking of ways to get out of the situation by talking to them? Yeah, look, so I'll be very open and I wrote about this in the book. This is one of the things that I wrestle with. If you're not open and share things that you could have done better, you don't have a book. Anybody who's the president of their own fan club, that book isn't moving off the shelf anywhere. So one thing that, look, I'm, I'm, I've come from a long long Irish Catholic family. And have a great faith. And in those moments, of course, you know, you have your, your core beliefs and whatnot. In the moment, you know, you're really thinking tactically, like, what do I need to do in the moment to survive? And so in that, just in that one example, no, I mean, I'm not actually praying in the moment. Of course, I've got my core values, my core beliefs and everything. But I'm like, I'm more in the moment saying, what can I do to, to try to survive and thrive through this? But, but I shared some really good stories in that book about faith. There's almost a whole chapter on it. And, and I'm not one who judges what, what religion and flavor anybody is or isn't. I just think that everybody has to know what their values are. And some, you know, what, what do you believe in? What, what, what, what, you know, we need americans, not americans. And, and you have to believe in something to be an american. What, what, what should we believe it be? What should we be believing in right now? It's different from what we're getting from Mr Biden and Mr. Arish. Well, look, like I said before, irrespective of, of any administration right now, I go back to the 330 million americans. Like, why are we such, such a, why are we looking first at political strife? Like, let's not, let's not make the world a zero or a one. Let's go back to the core values and the core beliefs of, of getting along and recent. And when people disagree, let's just, okay, you know, the world doesn't always go our way. Our forefathers made this nation so that we kind of bump our way down the highway. It's not perfectly straight down the, the center, but we always get down the road. So how do we as a country, you know, not run off the road? And I think with, with how polarized the world is, we're very close to running off the road. We gotta be able to agree to that. I think as we, there's something we discuss a lot about Mike on this show is, is, is, is, is, and Ben's, Ben's a constitutionalist and, and I've never seen Ben so sad and by the destruction of the constitution that we're witnessing right, Ben's time. But I think, Mr. Biden and his friends have taken several very big waxes to constitute. And I especially think big tech and the person, the people who persons who keep former president Trump off the air while letting the Taliban have unlimited run on the air. That's a very serious matter. I think arresting and imprisoning and putting in solitary confinement, people who walk into the capital when they're being gestured to come inside by the capital police and never harmed anyone or anything and treating those people as a revolutionary insurrection. That's a very serious whack against the constitution. And I'm, I'm extremely concerned about that. And I, I, my hat is off to you. You are an incredibly brave man. You have more bravery and a tip of your little finger than I have in my whole body. My father-in-law, my incredibly wonderful wife's father was a West Point man. He was, at the age of 22, was awarded the Silver Star for fighting against the Nazis in Zitland in Germany, Turkey. Well, the last three days were, he was awarded the Bronze Star in the Distinguished Service Medal, not Cross Medal for fighting in Vietnam when he was a middle-aged man. And he said, he said it was the duty of all of us young people at the time I was in school and so was my future wife's daughter to fight against the war in Vietnam. It's a demonstrate to everything we could to end the war in Vietnam because he said it was a slaughterhouse and could not be one and just people were reset there to die for no purpose. And I keep thinking that myself, what is the purpose of what Mr Biden and his friends are doing in terms of protecting the constitution, which is the greatest document in the history of mankind. And I hope we are going to get great men like you who are willing to risk their lives, protect the constitution, to occupy high office. I agree 100%. I, Gary, will be your protection detail. And Mike, it's extremely, I mean, we're talking about stuff and I know you're sort of, I'm not judging it. I want everybody to read your book and I think that's the point you're trying to make. Your book isn't made for Republicans, it's not made for Democrats, it's made for America. And, and, and, and, and, and, sorry Mike. Amen. You know, a lot, I was just, I'm with you. And, and the book's called Never Enough, a Navy SEAL commander on living a life of excellence, agility, and meaning, but so much, and so much of what you thought for was our constitution. It's not what it is. You fought for the constitution. You fought for America. And, and I think to Ben's point, it's, it must be, and I know it's, it's hard to answer any question. It has to be a bit heartbreaking sometimes watching what's going on around our country, the tribalism that we, we're all faced, we're all going through. And it's got to be hard for them. I'm so curious for the SEALs that are serving now because as you were leaving in 2013, yeah, obviously Facebook was big back then might, you know, and, but right now, what are, what are SEALs, I mean, they, they, how could they not be being influenced by the media? No, I, who's, who in America isn't right now, right? And it's just like what, what, uh, that's where that, like, leadership and judgment is, uh, like, the people who've been on the planet for longer have to help people who've been on the planet for less time. That's what makes us tick. Are we getting, you're very, very interested in leadership and, and, and you obviously are very, very capable, very, very, very capable leader. Are we getting good leadership now? Not, uh, I'd say, um, when you say leadership, it's, it's such a, it's such a simple term, right? I mean, leadership is simply, I don't think it's simple at all, but, but if you think so, god bless you. Well, it's, it's, um, it's, it's a conceptually simple, but, uh, do we have great enough leadership in America? Like, I, I, I, like, I'm an eternal optimist. It's so hard for me to say, um, like, let's look forward. Let's look through the windshield, not the rear view mirror, but I will tell you that, um, like I've said a few times throughout this is, is, um, like, great leadership will help us as a nation be able to get along and sort things out. Look, we, we don't, we don't have to agree. That's okay. Like, there's a lot of people who don't agree with policies. We don't agree a lot of times. Yeah, I know, but, and, and that's, look, I mean, but you have to fight for what you believe in. You have to, like, you know, get out there and, and you know, we were talking about vaccines and mandates and stuff like that earlier, like you, you, you, hey, just what do you believe in and then try to make it happen? If it doesn't happen, you lose that battle, you know, go fight another battle, live, live to fight another day and, and, and just consistently, my big message is just get off the sidelines, get off the sidelines, be active, contribute, try to pull, like I always said, you're the average of the people you hang out with, try to hang out with people who are smarter, faster, stronger. That's what I've done my whole life. I've been fortunate. I've been pulled up by a lot of great people. And I hope in some ways I, like, there's what I try to do with the book is, if through my experiences, try to contribute back to this great nation and help pull others up. I have to say you certainly have pulled us up. And we, we feel extremely honored to have had you on with us and Barry, we are extremely grateful to you. I have one more question for a wonderful man. I have one more question because you see a lot of seals on the news and we salute every seal. You seem to be really at peace. And you seem very common in peace. And I want to just quickly, just in very quickly, and as Ben was referring to God in spirituality, I think that's an extreme, you seem to be just that peace and content might, and a lot of people sometimes aren't. - Well, you know, I try to live in two places at once. Like I will be very honest. Like I wrestle with the loss of a lot of friends, you know, and so I can do one of two things. I can let that, I can spiral out of control or I can pour my energy into helping the widows and the children of those fallen teammates. And I've very confidentially have paid off five homes with in the foundation. And that makes life changing differences for some great, great Americans. And so for me personally, what I try not to do is, you know, stare at my feet. I try to always stare at the horizon, look up and out, you know, shoulders back and chest out. And just what's the next great thing that we can go do together? And that's what makes, that's what we need. And so maybe that's also, I'm not sure if it's a feature or a bug, but look, I bear a lot of loss that I wish I didn't. And so while I see my piece, of course, in the one hand, I definitely am. But on another hand, I also have, you know, just been through some hard days. - Yeah, and we're good now. - This is certainly made this a great day for us. - You really did. We were honored to have you here, Mike. We're gonna be emailing everybody. Sign up for the emails, benstein.substack.com. Tomorrow you'll be able to find where you get never enough. It's on Amazon, a Navy SEAL commander. I'm living a life of excellence, agility and meaning. And Mike, he gave us a lot of meaning tonight. You were exceptional from the bottom of our hearts. We thank you. And I wanna thank Gary Collins from TheSimpleLifeNow.com and all the people at Supporter Show, like Rock Breath, who's always here. And Gary, who's been such, means the world to me to have somebody that I could call up and ask and get help from. It's something Ben Stein taught me years ago. It's okay to ask for help and it's great to give help. And oftentimes we live in a world where people don't think, if I help somebody, it's gonna take away from Mike from me. It's not. It's only gonna make you better. And that's one of the greatest lessons in the world that Ben Stein has taught me. By giving, you get more without even, and that's not the reason you're giving it. You're just giving it because you're a good human. And Gary Collins, you are an exceptional human. You're an exceptional friend. You're an exceptional friend of the show. Mike Hayes from The Bottom of Our Hearts. Thank you. The book is never enough. I know this made Ben's day and night because Ben was super excited when I called him and told him, "So Ben, I will remind, "you remember everybody, Ben's line, that's up stock.com. "Never enough, Mike's book, simplelifemail.com." And also, Ben Stein has written exceptional pieces every week and every day. Spectator.org, it's American Spectator. And go there, read Ben's pieces. They are just brilliant Ben Stein. If you have any kind of words, you just sing us out. ♪ I walk in the garden alone ♪ ♪ While the dew is still on the roses ♪ ♪ And the words I hear in my ear so clear ♪ ♪ The son of God just flows as ♪ ♪ And he walks with me ♪ ♪ And he talks with me ♪ ♪ And he tells me I am his own ♪ ♪ And the song I hear as I tell you there ♪ ♪ No others have ever known ♪ God bless you. God bless you. God bless everyone. God bless you, man. God bless you. God bless you. God bless America. Thank you.