Making Sense of All the Injuries. Plus, Surprising Starts and Assessing Ernie Johnson’s Legacy | Real Ones

This episode is brought to you by Sony Pictures Classics. A perfect crime film, says the Daily Beast, John Turturro gives a career-best performance. Don't miss the acclaimed new thriller, The Only Living Pickpocket, in New York. Turturro stars as an aging master pickpocket whose latest score puts him in the crosshairs of a ruthless crime family. Also starring Giancarlo Esposito, Tatiana Maslany, Will Price, and Steve Buscemi. See the film that the LA Times calls instantly classic, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York. Now playing in theaters nationwide. What's poppin'? Real Ones, Logan Murdoch here. We have a really, really action-packed show for you guys. In the first segment, we have myself, we have Howard Beck, we have Raja Bell, and we're going to bring our biggest surprises and disappointments to the forefront. And then, in the second part of this show, we have a really, really fun segment with Brian Curtis and Joel Anderson where we talk about the legacy of Ernie Johnson. We talk about what this means for the future of Inside the NBA. And then we also talk about what this means for the future of both ESPN and the NBA media as a conglomerate and an apparatus and all of the isms. And so all of that and more on Real Ones Cliff for the theme music. This episode is presented by Sam's Club. During the holidays, everyone's in a club. The last-minute gift-givers club. The cool aunts club. The food coma club. Whatever holiday club you're in, Sam's Club is the club that helps you pull it off. Need to get a meal on the table in under two hours? Done. Shopping for the brands they want, like Dyson and Lego, without blowing your budget? Check and check. Sam's Club helps you make the most of the holidays. Come join us. Sam's Club. What's poppin'? Real Ones. Logan Murdoch here. Howard motherfuckin' Beck there. And Raja Bell over there. Guys, it is never too early for our biggest surprises and disappointments, despite what Howard may think. But we are going to get into it. It's too early, but we're going to do it anyway. Don't tell me it's not too early. It's never too early. We're in these streets. Oh, no. We're going to get started. First disappointment, man, and I think it's something that we can all agree on. I don't know how much we're going to agree on as the show goes on, but I think it's something that we can all agree on as the show goes on, but one thing we can agree on is the biggest disappointment of the season thus far is injuries, man. Injuries have just ravaged through the NBA and have really taken a toll not only on the viewer experience, but also all of our plans in the preseason. Let me give you guys some stats as we get into it. On Wednesday, 79 players were listed with an injury or an illness on the injury report for games that were on the schedule. That is according to a friend of the show. That is approximately 15% of the NBA. Notable names on that. Tyrese Halliburton, left hamstring strain. Anthony Edwards, who's going to be out two months after having arthroscopic knee surgery. Cason Wallace, torn labrum, out indefinitely. Ben Simmons, torn Achilles that happened in the preseason. Jaron Jackson Jr., torn MCL. He's out six to eight weeks. Brandon Ingram, who was already coming in to the season, out for some games with a partial Achilles tear. A little bit. Carroll, high ankle sprain. Jalen Suggs, right knee bone bruise. Jalen Durant, hamstring strain. Kawhi Leonard, sore left knee. And the list goes on. Back soreness last night for Luka Doncic. That didn't seem too, too bad. But where are we at as a league? Are we actually going to finally make changes, Howard Beck? Is everybody okay on this pod? Everybody like Raja in the back? Logan? I'm day-to-day. I'm just day-to-day. I'll never be okay. I'm just worried for all of us at this point. I might blow out an ankle just getting out of bed in the morning at this stage. This, I mean, it's hard with injuries, right? Because when we have a flurry like this, and I don't, and every year it feels like it's the most we've ever seen. And like, there's a whole new crisis. But this does really feel like a new high slash low, just sheer number. But also like, and this is not to, you know, say it's any easier, for, uh, for, for role players and stars, but like, it's so many stars. It's so many big names. Like you feel for anybody who gets hurt. But like, I mean, like the Halliburton thing, he just came back and it was like, oh, he looks like himself again after a year rehabbing the Achilles, one of the toughest injuries. And then to have the hamstring, which probably related to come up, like right off the bat, like that just sucks. It just takes the air out of what was looking like, okay, the pacers are back in the mix here. And then Anthony Edwards, like, well, it was two days ago. We're talking about like, wow. Ant and LaBello look great. Like they could have been one of our surprises of the season on this segment today. That's way too early. And yet, uh, clearly it was too early two days ago to even talk about it because now Ant's out for two months. Uh, it's like changes, Logan. Like I, it's funny because we all, when there's this many, we're forced to do the, well, what does this mean? What, why is this happening? Is it the pace of the game? Is it the preseason schedule? Is it the 82 games schedule? And this is not even really about the fact that we're two weeks into a season. It's, it's all the wear and tear of, of years of too long of a schedule. And we start talking about, do we need to shorten the schedule again? Is it like all the wear and tear that guys get before they even come to the league? And this just comes to bear. Are guys not training well or right in the off season? Are they spending too much time with skills trainers instead of like conditioning? Fuck if I know. Um, I have, I have spoken to people about this, uh, probably about this time last year. And there is like, some theory that guys are not training the way they need to in the off season. We talked, we alluded to this a couple of days ago, right? Raja during his time, you had a month of preseason and teams played eight games. You had double days early, like the first week of training camp would be two a days. Um, but that was from another time when guys didn't play year round. And when get, you know, training camp literally was there to get you in condition because nobody stayed or most guys didn't stay. Ready in the off season. And so the NBA cutting the off, uh, the, the, the preseason under Adam Silver's watch early in his tenure was actually about saving some wear and tear. Why are we playing six or eight preseason games? These are exhibitions. We don't need that many. Let's just get to it. Let's, you know, let, let's shorten that part. Let's shorten training camp. And it seems logical at the time. And that was, that went hand in hand with a longer all-star break, cutting down the number of back-to-backs, all the things to make the schedule more productive. Player friendly. And yet here we are with the list that Logan just went down and the numbers and the percentages, uh, that our friend Kierthika, uh, provided on, on her social feeds. Like, I, I don't know, but the NBA needs to come to grips with this, right? Like they, they can't just look at this and say, oh, well, you know, it's just happenstance. And some is happenstance. Jalen Williams just landed funny. And, you know, some guys, you know, like, uh, you know, you, you, um, who's got the shoulder thing. Is that case and Wallace case? Like that, the high, the high, the high ankle sprain, like those are, you know, those are things that just are, yeah. And sometimes, sometimes it's just an impact thing. Like you ran into somebody as opposed to a soft tissue injury where it might've been, um, you know, fatigue or wear and tear or whatever. But still like, this is a really shitty downer two weeks into the season and the NBA, I don't know what they can do anymore, but I really hope the league office is paying attention, studying this and trying to figure out whether there is a through line that can be addressed. I want to, I want to go to get Roger's point on this, but I do want to read a tweet that, uh, our friend Nate Jones, um, he works for a good one sports, but he's also, um, a really good, uh, uh, follow on Twitter. Um, he says about the NBA injuries, um, the reasons for the NBA injuries, uh, pace and space era is more taxing on the body. More guys are playing and decelerating off of one foot, one leg, a ton more single leg actions in previous eras, kids playing one sport year around for a decade before they hit the league. Specializations, uh, specialization kills, especially when kids aren't preparing for themselves for that type of load through strength and resistance training, physical therapy, plus the bio, uh, mechanic analysis. And they're not using proper equipment. Um, it feels like Roger, you ghost wrote that. It feels like something you've been saying. I was going to say, bro, you just fucking took my whole whole fucking float. No. Um, yeah, I look, I think for the preseason was grueling when I came into the NBA. I mean, it was, it was a brutal thing. It was, it was dreaded. You know, if you could avoid it, if you had any clout or cache enough to avoid it, you did that lengthen it and stretching it back out and putting the two days back into effect. I don't think they're going to change anything because teams are just going to hold the people they need to hold out of them. They're not going to play them in the preseason game. So you're, you're not going to get the benefit of if there were to be a benefit of doing all that work before you played, you're not even going to see it because teams are going to shut down. They're not going to shut dudes down. Like they're not going to be there. Um, I do think there's the, the, the text, who was the gentleman that you read the text from or the tweet? Nate Jones. Good for you, dude. There's a lot there that I think, uh, I would, I would echo number one. Um, I was on one of the first teams, not first, but one of the first teams to really consistently want to push and run the ball. Um, and I had played prior to that on at least a few teams. that did not want to push and run the ball. It was more like, bring it up. Let's get into a set. Um, I can tell you definitively that it is way harder to play in that uptempo style. Now you get in shape and you get accustomed to it and you get used to it, but it's a more taxing style to play because you are flying. You are up and down that court all the time. And it's just, it's like anything you're taking more trips up and down the court, right? Like, so like over the course of time that accumulates, um, the one leg actions are, are, are interesting. Like the skills that are being taught today are certainly not the same skills that were being taught. The, um, the force with which a lot of these guys are, are loading to Euro and do other things like that. Like I, I wasn't doing that. I wasn't doing that since I was five years old, you know? And so that takes me to the last part of it, which I think, you hit the nail on the head with it's, it's, it's systemic. Like it starts from our youth basketball. And, and I've, I've, I've rented on this on pods years ago. You could go back and listen. Um, but I still have two boys that are in the midst of it. And my older boy tie is an interesting like case study because now I get feedback from college coaches when they were young. This was just my take on it. This is too much. They're playing too much. This isn't enough rest. When do they get a chance to play? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Is it actually necessary to play all these games? Like I don't pretend to be the smartest person in the room, but my basketball brain was like, this is a lot, but I didn't have anybody to really bounce that off of. Now I can talk to college coaches and they'll call and ask, Hey, where's Ty going to be? Um, this might be a random weekend in June or whenever it's live between back-to-back Nike weekends and, you know, peach jam. And I'm saying to them like of the camps that he could go to Nike top 100. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't you know, the Bradley Beal camp or, you know, the Steph Curry, whatever they are, I'm shutting him down. He's not doing anything. And to a man, everyone I say that to when we do it is like, great call, great call. It's a lot. And so I think it's an understood thing that, that, that I'm not beefing with any shoe company or, or I don't want any enemies, but like, this is, it's self-serving to some degree. It's not really helping the kids. Like the only benefit that the kids get from those platforms is when coaches are in the gym, that's their vehicle to be evaluated and to go to college. Like there's a benefit there to them short of that. Well, some fucking asshole on two, four, seven is writing about you. Who the fuck is he? Like, you know what I mean? Like no disrespect. Like I said, two, four, seven, it could be any outlet. Like who the fuck? Why does he and why does anybody care? You don't necessarily have to play eight games in front of him over the course of four days. There's, there's really no value to it. And so I just think it's between, between that and, and, and the rest of what people want them to do over the course of a summer to be relevant. And I'm sorry, I am ranting now because it does mean something. If you skip these people's camps, they don't reward you with, the stars and the rankings. And I was always told, well, stars and rankings don't matter. Bullshit. Bullshit. Because they're paying kids now. So when you are a top 10 player, you fall into a flight of payment. When you're a top 50 player, you fall into a different category and flight of payment. So therein lies the rub, right? Like if you're showing up and you're doing your job at those camps, you're, you're one hand's washing the other. Ah, you went to his thing. He, he might speak highly of you. If you can't play, you can't play. But if you can play and you don't go to that, well, maybe we slide you in at 25. Now does, is that the end all be all to a kid in his family? I can't tell you that to each their own, but some people will look at that model and say, well, I got to go to that. I can't miss that. Like I, I can't, I can't miss that. And so they've got you caught in this perpetual cycle. If you can't get any rest, I can't even find time to work with my son on like the details of what he needs to work on. He got to get up every morning at four 45, right. And drive an hour down to his school to get in the gym before school starts. So he can actually work on skills. Yeah. Like actually work on skills. That's a broken model to me, bro. You're doing too much. There's too much time being spent out there on the court. And then the last thing I'm sorry on the rant is I've always said this. Whenever someone asked me how they could make their kid a better basketball player in the third, fourth, fifth grade, my simple answer to them was let him play something else. Yeah. Let him swim, let him go play football, baseball, whatever the heck he likes. Let him go do that. I only say him because I didn't coach many girls teams, but like whatever, whatever they're doing, let them do something else, not just physically, but emotionally they need a break. Well, I mean, you're bringing up a lot of great points that I always think about when it comes to these youth programs. Cause it's, it's never been about the kids, right? Like even in the nineties, when it first started these, these, these quote unquote grassroots camps in these ABCD camps, they weren't for kids to get exposure. At the end of the day, they were about selling sneakers, right? They were about seeing if we can get kids that, Hey man, maybe if I'm Adidas, maybe I can get this kid really early. And then when they're in bed on them and if they get to the league, they can wear my sneakers. Right. And now it's, it's just evolved to a bigger point on that, right? Where it's multiple sneaker companies and trying to buy for, um, these kids services. And now that they're getting paid in these NIL deals, they can now actually commodify these kids a lot earlier. Right. And it, and then when you're usually, especially back in the day, um, when they would talk about these kids from like lower income communities and they'll, they put the carrot in front of you, like, Hey man, you'll get exposure. And this is the way out, right? These kids are like, damn, well, I, this is how I could, this is how I can help my family. Right. This is how I can get up out of here. And you dangle that. And then it just gets to a point where all these camps are happening. And these kids are just, you're putting this carrot in front of these kids and they're getting to a point where I have to do this and it's messing up every single thing else. And it's really like, it's, it's never been a sport. It's always been a business of cosplaying as a sport. But I think we've gotten to a point with the youth level where these kids now are, like you're saying, are forced to play all of this time when they otherwise wouldn't have, you're not setting them up for success when they get to the league at all. Right. Because not only from a standpoint of an injury standpoint, but also like you said, they're not learning offenses necessarily. You know, they're not learning, um, how to, you know, their basketball IQ, they're learning like, Oh, I can just play three, four times a day. And I can just like, you know, use my raw ability to show these coaches, um, how to do something and show these coaches, um, that I can, I'm athletic and have the natural gifts. But like that, it's, it's really messing up all of the, the beautiful sport that we're all, that we're all love and that we all fell in love with and just making it optimized to the highest degree. I will just add one quick thing. If anybody's like for everything that, that both of you just said, and that Nate Jones noted, like this isn't just Raj's personal experience and with himself and his kids, this is not just Nate Jones being, you know, somebody who works for an agency, like there is science behind this and Baxter Holmes had a great piece. It's like, it's now like six, seven years ago about all of the, the, the wear and tear and the cost for the kids about, um, and why players in the NBA are getting hurt is, is actually not because of things that are going on in the NBA necessarily, but everything that preceded it as they were growing up and it's the specialization and the overscheduling and all that. So like there is, there's a lot of reporting and science, uh, backing everything that, that Raja and Nate and Logan all just said. So people can go look up that story too. Yeah. I just, yeah. But here's the, here's the catch though. Here's the catch, right? Um, because these little jokers are, are working to the degree that they're working now, the product is so much better. They're so, they're so advanced. Like I'm not here to say that if you didn't train Michael Jordan or, you know, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the way you train these kids, that they wouldn't be more skilled in these kids. But these kids today, I don't think it's debatable that these kids are way more skilled than generations past. Like, so you're seeing incredible results in terms of if you keep sharpening that knife over and over again, Jesus, I mean, it is, it comes to a point where you can barely sharpen it anymore. So the skill level is incredible, but the body can only take what it can take. And yeah, you know, it's, it's different for everybody. Yeah. You come into, as opposed to back in the day, you come into league as a legitimate 19 year old. Now you're coming into a body that's like 28 into the league, 28 30 with the wear and tear. My son, Ty will play 60 high school games this year. Jesus. Oh my. Man. I remember when it was like, it was like 30 if you go all the way. Remember back in the day, it was like 30. If you go all the way to state championship, it's like 30 games. And we're talking about like 82 might be too much for the pros. Yeah. That's before, wait, this is, yeah. Cause Howard, this is like, maybe, maybe I did that. I thought it was 60. Maybe it's, maybe it's closer to 50 and change now. Cause they might have moved some. Still incredible amount of games. And this is before you get in to what I was just talking about, which is, you know, I'm not a big fan of the NBA. I'm not a big fan of the NBA. I'm not a the summer that is completely irresponsible. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Every basketball fan has their own opinion on what makes a great team, but when it comes to breakfast, a sausage McMuffin with egg, crispy hash browns, and a coffee is a tough lineup to beat. And right now you can get all three for just five bucks. You'll love to see it. Get a sausage McMuffin with egg plus hash browns And a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Prices and participation may vary. Promotion prices may be lower than meal pricing. Prices may be higher for delivery. All right, let's get to a surprise. Howard, what is your surprise for this? Your first surprise of the season. First surprise of the season. I can't even believe I'm saying this. I said this on Blue Sky last night. Like, it's like this weird admission. Like, I'm not sure I'm okay. I needed to workshop. Am I okay? I'm actually enjoying the Washington Wizards play basketball. Yeah. Is that okay? Is that acceptable? Is there something wrong with me? I think we've been waiting for this moment for a long time, though. You know, DC and the Wizards have always had a fraught relationship. But, like, when DC sees a winner, it's turn. Like, I think we've all wanted this to happen. I mean, I think the Wizards organization and basketball have had a fraught relationship. Absolutely. Absolutely. Listen, not to get carried away, they are two and three. But last night was the first, like, full wire-to-wire. I watched the Wizards. I'd, like, you know, kind of, like, bounced in and out before. But it was DeBansa's debut, and I absolutely wanted to see that. And he looked fucking awesome. Agent DeBansa was great. We're recording this on Thursday, of course. I don't know if they have another game. I don't think they do before this pod posts. 19 points, 8 for 12 from the field. Two rebounds, two assists, two turnovers. All that in 27 minutes. He was minus three, but it was a minus three in a game they lost by 10. So he was better than most of his teammates. And they actually. DeBansa actually had a lead with, like, six minutes to go. And this is against a Cavaliers team that's, like, stacked and is supposed to be, you know, among the contenders in the East. DeBansa looked great. He mostly scored around the basket, but, like, he has a smooth little, like, pull-up game and a mid-range jumper and floater. Like, he just looked good. He looked really active defensively. Good chemistry already with Trey, who, like, started him off. His first field goal as a pro was, like, a 70-foot alley-oop from Trey. Yes, that's awesome. That play was awesome. That was phenomenal. And, like, beyond DeBansa, who, you know, looks. Obviously, the hype is high for a reason when you're the number one overall pick, and so the expectations are there. But, you know, sometimes guys start slower, and he'll have his ups and downs. But, like, the Wizards as a whole, I remain. I'm not going back on anything I said about the construction or about how baffling it was to me that they went and got Trey and AD in the first place. But right now, the pieces look like they fit. AD looks good next to Alex Saar, and AD looks good, period, right now. Trey Young is playing, like, a good all-around game. He's not overdoing it. He's not trying to make it the Trey Young show. Even, like, the role guys who have been around, and, like, you know, we've talked about this, and I think Raja said it, and I've said this in various other contexts before. Like, players who are very good at a certain skill set, when they don't have a superstar or guys to play off of and they have to do too much, don't look so good. But when you start putting them in the right positions and roles, start looking better. Like, Bilal Koulibaly looked. Phenomenal in that game. You know, Bub Carrington. Like, all these guys they've collected over the last several years of tanking and just being bad all of a sudden look a little bit better playing off of much more talented guys. And so, like, they were competitive. They were fun to watch. They share the ball. Again, like, Trey, his usage rate and his field goal attempts are all way down from his career averages. Like, it's, again, it's early. And I'm still not sure they're making the playoffs or the play-in. because of how deep the East is. But if they keep playing like that, they're going to be really good and really fun. And, and there you go. There's my, my first surprise. I actually enjoy the Washington wizards playing basketball. I don't know if you guys remember this, but I know on the pod, some people were down on that trade when it happened and you guys had made like, before I say this, the, the, the, or you were down, you guys were down on what Washington was going to be in the trade. And I want to be fair to you guys, because I don't always look at trades for, you know, the, the, the, the pieces and the cap flexibility and what you got back. You guys do deep dives into those trades, what they're going to do to franchise and salary caps. I typically look at them very superficially, like I'm being honest. Um, but I was saying back then that I kind of liked, I kind of liked Trey, um, um, Anthony Davis. I did it at the time. I don't, I'm pretty sure we didn't know that they were getting AJ, but I, I, I kind of, I thought that that could work at this stage in their careers, health, obviously, you know, being a huge issue in that, um, just, just starting from those two pillars of what you were trying to do as players. Um, so I would agree with you, Howard. I just, you know, without, without AJ, obviously I think they're sealing. If he turns into something quickly, this year, if he turns into like something quickly this year, even in that Eastern conference, I think they could be a tough, a real tough team in that, but he's, he's got to continue to develop. Um, but I would agree with you. I think, I think they're a fun watch. The East is, the East is going to be tough though. Cause there are a lot of teams that could win that, but I always felt like, I always felt like they knew something we didn't know about putting those two together. And I didn't hate it when they did it. I will just say quickly in my own defense of my skepticism. It was more about like, there's a, there's a track record. That's pretty long at this stage. And so a good, a better version of Trey might fit with all this and make them like, and, and, and, um, do all the things that you were, you were hoping in the abstract, like based on his skillset. Right. But he's gotta be a better version of himself. And with AD it's, it's always the injury risk. And also to me, it was just the timeline thing. Like you're plugging these old guys with a young team, but it might actually help them. And in the short term, at least, uh, give them the structure they needed. So you're not wrong though. That's a leap of faith, right? Like a guy's gotta be ready to turn that page on who he was, you know, or at least who we were hearing he was and say, Hey, this is more important now. Right. Like, so you couldn't predict that. I think the biggest thing that I love about this team, and I think would illustrate why they're all playing hard and playing well, they all have something to play for, right? Like AD is playing for a contract. Alex Saar is playing for a contract as well. And also playing. So you can remember who, who he is on that roster because he kind of got lost in the shuffle, during that, during his first few years there. Um, and you got AJ DeBanza who was like, I am going to compete on what that rookie of the year. Um, and you have Trey, you know, just adding to what you guys were saying is like, he's trying to build a different reputation league wide, right? Through his first, after his first few seasons and prove why he wants that deal. And you see that in the way that they're playing hard. You see what an AD can be when he's motivated and you're seeing that. And that's really, really dope to see that it's all coming together where it seems to be. out the first uh their first five games so raja you have your first disappointment my first disappointment is in you all right um that you're you're you're disappointing all right for the for the scathing review that you gave after one game of yaxel linda borg i'm disappointed that you hopped out as quick as you did on those kind of vibes while howard and i howard first kudos to howard was quick to caution and be like oh like that you know he could play like he could be good on the team chill chill and then i hopped on the bandwagon because i ain't like what you were doing but like you are my disappointment because yaxel linda borg can hoop like i love this i am disappointed in logan murdoch yaxel can hoop he can play and he's not a baby like wait you know what happens hey you know aj coop all these guys that come into this league with these incredible ceilings that yeah we we we think that they're going to win eventually but that's going to take some time i i made a joke about his age the other day but like you know kind of tongue-in-cheek he's old like he's a grown-ass man like no that dude yeah but but he he he's grown so he can hop into a league physically and do some things with just the the maturation of his body and and and kind of who he is as a person and and operate in a way that might take guys a little longer to do like i'm not sitting here telling you hey he's the best player in the draft class or anything like that but i am telling you that you know he's a really good player and he's gonna be a good player uh for golden state this year like does he have things to work on like will there be nights where you know it doesn't look as good as others absolutely will he average 26 a game for a seat no but like he's gonna be a good player for them this year if he stays healthy okay a couple of things on this one if i if i bring any skepticism your way to your team or your player or your team if they're down in a game you should put money on the other on the team to do something good right i feel like i have developed a track record on that right and the second thing i will say is i don't know exactly for real for real i don't know exactly what i said on that podcast a week ago about yaxo but what i do believe that i think that i said was he did bark up the wrong tree in that moment and he did some rookie shit that's what he did right how however he has a proven track record says he's been on the warriors from summer league on of being a really really impressive player right and i would that i think the night that i did the day that we did the podcast either it was two days later or like the next day i went to um the warrior season opener and against the grizzlies or the warriors home upper against the grizzlies and he was awesome in that game and i think one of the things that he does well and that a lot of warriors rookies didn't really clock early on during their tenure is he what is they didn't play great alongside draymond right the the rookies that do well play really great alongside Draymond and to take advantage of his playmaking abilities right and you see that a lot his chemistry on the floor with Draymond offensively there was a play a couple of plays where he had a seal against Memphis and Draymond just found for a quick quick bucket he is really good and the reason why he goes on his flurries is because and this is something rookies don't do and I think it speaks to his age which is he's really patient offensively and he gets he makes sure he gets the easy buckets right and takes advantage of the easy opportunities to get those buckets I was looking at Darren Peterson um the last night against the Spurs and one of the things that was tough down the stretch was he took a lot of hard shots down the stretch when um as opposed to Wimby who was very patient you know getting into the lane and figuring uh his way around the basket and that's something that Yaxo does right like he's just very patient offensively and I don't know how long this is going to hold right it's not just your game that has to carry you as a team it's going to be a lot of work and it's going to be a lot of work and it's going to as a rookie it's also the um you know the long season it's 82 games it's really really early but I think and he's also now like a bona fide second option for the Warriors and it's it's it's a mystery how long he's going to be able to do that not anything related to his game more so just the longevity of an NBA season and the knickknacks that you get during those times but I think he's really really good I think that sometimes and like what happened with um Luca where like you know stuff that has nothing to do with his game got him to be able to do that and I think that's him and by extension the team in trouble because after he did what he did against Luca they the Warriors went up 30 that was I think that's what I would say but if I said anything about his game hey man no bet on no no yeah go ahead go ahead I'll just say this um first of all while we've been taping uh NBA communications posted that Yaxo Lindenberg is the first player since Shaquille O'Neal in 1992 to average 20 and 9 20 points and 9 rebounds uh in his first five career games so he's in shock and he's going to be the first player to be in the NBA and he's going to be the territory now how about awesome that's um uh secondly um I don't recall exactly what Logan said either but producer Cliff if we have picture in picture capabilities on the video version of this podcast if you could just show without sound Logan's faces that he was making for a full like three minute stretch while I was talking about Yaxo that would suffice because Logan's facial just all all over the place uh I was somehow able to persevere through it and make my presentation despite seeing him like cringe was it that one like was it that was it was was I was I frowning for that one was that something else I'm pretty sure it was that one for you I always frown you were okay this this was off the charts for by by your side because it wasn't just like an initial thing you just kept going and going and I in the back of my head I'm like all right enough stop can I just please finish my presentation are you two saying that I'm going to be the first player in I'm a hater are you two saying that I'm just a straight-up hater I am a lot I am as much if not more disappointed in you than Raja is fair fair fair okay fair but okay let me just do it can I here's my the game the game is speaking for itself I just want to say again about and this happens a lot and I don't know why I don't some people never feel the essence of what I'm saying to you but like typically athletes do why can't he talk to Luca no no why can't it's not it's not that he can't talk to Luke in fact he's gonna have another opportunity when people but it wasn't just you but it wasn't just you it was huh my thing was this you could talk mess it's great it's awesome I think you should continue to talk mess it's when it and I think you kind of alluded to this with with Jordan it's what it gets you out of your game right like when you're talking mess to the point where it gets you out of your game right like I don't mind talking best yeah we slightly disagreed on whether it got him out of his game or not right because you were you were kind of saying like he was fouling and I was like you're gonna get fouls anyway so I don't I guess what I'm saying is I agree with you if you can't play basketball and handle yourself doing that don't do that but that's kind of who he is and this isn't a this isn't meant it's to be like aimed at you this was everybody collectively was like you're fucking who the fuck are you to be talking to Luca like bitch I fucking laced my shoes up just like everybody else what the fuck like that typically doesn't resonate with a fan like I and with with athletes and competitors hey bro I ain't a dummy you're better than me like that that's clear but yeah we are both men and at the end of the day if if I feel like something has happened and so I always would support Yaxel or anybody for that matter in that space now you know like he ain't Luca that's clear you know like that like that's clear and if you can't play like that then you shouldn't but that's what I was on with him after the game like if that's who you are my boy if that's how you play if that's if that's tried and true tested for you throughout a career be that and I think I think what I was arguing that day Logan sorry because I don't think you said he was a bad player was like would that wear thin on Golden State and what I was arguing that day Logan sorry because I don't think you said he was a bad I was saying was I don't think so I think that's going to be received real well in that locker room because I think that's who he is all the time um okay let me get uh I'm going for my first surprise the Portland Trailblazers uh three and oh with the best offense in the NBA um John Morant we were really curious about well not we Howard was very very skeptical actually I'm disappointed in you Howard no I'm just kidding hold on let me make some faces while you're giving me this take um the Portland Trailblazers are shooting 41 percent from three-point range a year after they couldn't put the ball in the hole from beyond the arc um they are shooting 63.5 percent of their mid-range shots per cleaning the glass and per Zach Lowe's uh sub stack which you guys should all subscribe to um and they have some big wins right that game against the Lakers in which uh John Morant went off uh Damian Lillard went off and then they went off and then they went off and then Lillard went off uh Avia went off um they have a they're just a really really fun team and one of the fun things that I do love about this uh team thus far is just how jaw is implemented in that system right I mean Raja talked about uh what it's like when an older player you know kind of comes into his own talk about Trey Young right and the different type of game that you see as they mature and I've seen that with jaw over these last three games right like in the Memphis offense it was very much jaw centric where it was very much like you know it was very much like he's going to tap the ball 80 percent of the time you're going to run him off a screen and rolls and you see what happened now in Portland they're running him off of curls uh they're telling him straight up you know you live in the paint right and he's a lot more patient in the paint it's a little Nash uh centric type of game uh once he's in the paint right remember when Raja when Nash would just go to the paint just be patient I'm just going to be here for two and a half seconds I'm going to just survey around starts dribbling around you're starting to see that with jaw now where he's he's getting people getting three-point shooters um involved and then also he has the spacing of Damian Lillard that he just simply didn't have as another guy that is a guard um and it's really really cool to see their their offensive flow now again it's a weekend but you're starting to see um a different type of job and one of the things and it's very early one of the the the things that I was saying um as a retort to Howard uh you know who I'm very disappointed in geez wow it's just so crazy that you would say something like this even though John Moran had a track record that he did it's just so disappointing that you would point that out but anyways um what you're seeing now one of the points that I made was like Damian Lillard his presence is really going to pay dividends for a guy like job because Damian Lillard is somebody that jaw looked up to and that's someone that job would listen to and also have a respect for and also would want to see when and I feel like that partnership is really really helping because he has that respect and I feel like that partnership is really really helping because and also he doesn't have the pressure of being the guy anymore which I think is really letting him play his game since he was kind of rock bottom in his uh NBA career um and now he's just kind of finding a home but the the Blazers have been a really dope success story um they haven't really played anybody other than Lakers they beat the crap out of the Phoenix Suns and the Sacramento Kings but hey man vibes are there and that's all you need in the modern NBA so Blazers surprise it's it's not nothing um you look the very fact that Damian and jaw have this mutual respect but also like really enjoy playing together it's kind of like the Ant and LaMelo thing where it's like yeah uh you know it just could be an awkward fit because two guys were used to having everything revolve around them and they both play with the ball in their hands but oh man they really like and respect each other that goes a long way I think with the jaw and Dame thing like like that's a great starting point but you know they're still going to be at a disadvantage defensively and long term that's that's going to be a thing it's just great to see Dame back to so you know great dude great player and like you just hate to see a guy's career potentially end within Achilles and you don't know what they're going to be when they come back so it's just great seeing Dame be Dame period um I I think you know my my skepticism was on a bunch of different counts not least of which was that what was this going to do to all the other guys in the lineup who need the ball in their hands Denny Avdia is actually playing I think really well with and off of those two so far but Scoot is now just an afterthought like he played 16 minutes in that in that win against the Lakers. And like, the the cold-hearted part of you could say well you know what you got to earn it and if you've got a lot of guys who play the same position and you can't earn the minutes and and you know this is what you know third fourth year in the league like that's on you like there's a cold reality of that in the NBA and somebody might say that but like you invested in this guy with the third overall pick like you've you've marginalized him now and so part of my concern when they brought in Ja was just like what is the plan here you have a confusing plan and and it may pay short-term dividends I don't know what the long-term sustainability of that is still and yeah look you know Ja's playing a different game than he used to and he's playing much more contained of a game and he's averaging like 11 shots a game which is way down from his career is he going to be happy with that long term we'll see so like yes uh they are a pleasant surprise um I am potentially going to be disappointed in myself Logan if I was too hard on them and this sustains I'm not so sure that's going to sustain but we'll see we'll see I think through the first three games one thing I like and this is probably a a mantra that I'm going to be using throughout the season but one of the Portland Trailblazers big strong suits through these first three games is they just let basketball players play basketball right like they just have a lot of guys a lot of smart guys a lot of smart guards Drew Holiday um uh Ja who was like kind of coming into his own but one of the things about Ja is like he's shooting um three attempts from three a game that's the lowest amount of attempts that he's had since his rookie season and should be lower still it should be lower still be shooting 44 through three games right so like just pick your spots when you have to shoot threes because and just go into the cup just watch a lot of Rayjean Rondo film and just be that um and I think that he's going to be in good shape what do you think about the Blazers Roger before we get to Howard's disappointment um they're yeah no they're great they're a great story that's fun um especially given all the uncertainty that you guys just talked about coming coming into the experiment that would be you know putting jaw with with Dame I I think for me when I think about their situation it um it reminds me of something I'd say a lot which is you know guys in the NBA that may come in and not be as mature as you need them to be to necessarily lead or be the face of a franchise really need a vet that they can look to that they respect um and it really helps if that vet can still go out there and bust their ass mm-hmm because that goes a long way if he's an old gray beard that's just talking about the he used to do that relatively immature player is just gonna look over there and be like man get up anybody listen to that but if it's someone who's still viable I do think it's a long way for players on their arc of maturity and it's early it remains to be seen whether you know quite frankly jaw is okay with the the the limitations in role if you will but so far so good and I'm hopeful that he will be um and I just think that's so important and when us when something like this happens and and and and you see a guy like kind of kind of the the version of himself that you that you would have maybe hoped that he was like and the buy-in that he that he has with this situation I want to be fair to him though because it's easy to buy in in Memphis when you're the dude and they give you the ball when they're like yo this whole thing is yours you're like yay let's go right but like when you go somewhere and you got a track record for being and now they're like yo ball's not yours all the time my boy like you you go have to that's when if someone was a problem you would expect to see it yeah you'd be like hey well let's keep an eye on that because that's just not going to work and he's he's been good and I'm happy uh to see that I'm happy for him and it just always brings me back to man like when you're bringing in guys you know it it is so helpful if you can have somebody there and I'm I'm forever grateful I talk about it all the time for all the dudes that were in my life that helped me learn how to do what I was supposed to do and so I'm happy for him um that that he has that and I'm I'm I'm surprised that now and and you know hopefully hopefully that's that's we're we're on the track that we need to be on for the rest of the career yeah Godspeed uh Howard disappointment oh there were a lot of possibilities here um we already kicked the Miami heat while they were down so there was no point in going back there and they finally got a win so uh how about the Utah Jazz um and this is one where part of the disappointment is through the lens of um many of us myself included in uh punditry world were maybe irrationally high on them coming in like okay this this is it man like you know uh you know marketing's back and it's gonna be playing and the draft of Darren Peterson and Keontae George had a breakthrough season and you know on and on and it looks like they should be a factor in the West they're off to a one and four start uh the one win is against the winless New Orleans Pelicans uh their losses the Jazz losses are two uh Grizzlies Lakers Grizzlies again and the Spurs um they're kind of a mess and that was the case even before Jaron Jackson Jr went down for what looks like is is going to be a significant period here um it's looking more and more like you know maybe whatever your reservations were about paying Walker Kessler maybe you should have just kept him because Nurkic is also out although he's getting reevaluated soon but like their front court is is just decimated right now Peterson is having a bumpy ride so far it's early um it's just not the pieces don't aren't don't seem to be meshing and like their front court rotation now without Nurkic and having moved on from from Kessler like their centers are Jackson Hayes and Mo Bamba um like it's it's yeah I there's a lot of season obviously to go and we are reacting way too soon because it's what we do uh but the the the warts are are pretty significant coming out of this uh coming out of the gate and just getting Jaron Jackson Jr back in in a month or whatever it's going to be I don't know if that's enough um yeah they're gonna have to be patient and I think you know look everybody's expectations including probably Jazz fans and the organization itself were high given the array of talent they got and and especially plugging in you know the number two overall pick so um it's it's going to be a little bit more of a process maybe they're not ready to jump straight into the plan slash playoff mix but uh yeah slight slight disappointment so far I think this is just a reminder for all of us and one of the skepticisms that I had about the Jazz injuries notwithstanding was just like you got to learn how to win right and I don't think that this team actually took the time in this organization took the time to learn how to win because you know they were actively trying to lose no matter what they say publicly but um this is like the first season where they're actually trying and then also you know Peterson's gonna have I think there was a there was a bit too much smoke on uh Peterson over the summer and like okay he had a few great summer league games but all of his games that he did well in were games that didn't count you know what I mean and I think that we just needed to kind of give him a little bit more patience and we put a lot on that team unless we have a lot of time or we're there's not a lot of games and we just have a lot to talk about and a lot of theoreticals throughout the summertime but the Jazz always seemed like a team that hey man they don't actually have to have these expectations they just kind of have to figure themselves out right and I think what you're seeing right now and I watched them play against the Spurs uh the other night they got a lot of guys that aren't finished products but are really really good like Keontae George was really good against the Spurs the other night right and just going into the lane being a leader looking like an all-rounder I think that's what they're doing looking like an all-star right me and Cliff were talking about uh how he was a sleeper all-star pick last year right and um you ca in order to win you gotta learn how to do it and the Jazz whether they had injuries or not I feel like we're gonna have to go through those growing pains no matter what happened um so yeah man what do you think of the Jazz Roger your Jazz man yeah I mean I I agree with both of you I guess like are they disappointing out of the gate so far yeah probably but I'm with you working in that not in a negative way but I didn't expect much out of them anyway like what I expected for them was to get a year closer to when I should have expectations for them does that does that make sense did I say that well enough like yeah and everything that goes into getting that step closer uh to being ready to win that you know the maturity the role definition general skill work uh blossoming of different people but like I didn't expect much of them this year as a as a threat it's it's still early so I could see why Howard would say that but like um I'm not worried because I mean like this this year why I wasn't expecting them to really vie for anything anyway personally yeah who is your biggest surprise Roger um I don't know if it's like the the biggest Ty Jerome's my biggest surprise like he's the universe surprise yeah I shouldn't be surprised because I always liked him in college I liked him at UVA weirdly like I liked his game he got like a you know herky-jerky not athletic it was so he's my biggest surprise but I'm not gonna do a segment I love how much Ty rome talks i love it i was at the the opener when they played uh they played memphis and just you could where the media seating is up at chase center it's up at like the 200 level you could still hear how much he was talking shit after every after every and one there was one and one where he went right at dream i was like i was like oh okay hold let's go is he qualified to talk all that mess logan just checking um uh no he's gotta score 50 before logan bear point bear point my most pleasant surprise i guess the way i'll put this one is is the houston rockets at at five and oh um again just plugging plugging back in the piece that allows everyone else to do what they do best yeah in vred van vliet um organizing steering the ship scoring it um creating mentality and overall leadership as as a as a person on the floor um i think puts people back in really good spaces for themselves uh they're they're they're still one of the best teams in the league defensively um they're shooting the three ball i mean it's a small sample size but they're really shooting the ball really well this year um i think you could see the progression and all of their young players when i watch them uh you know like you could you could see a step being made by those guys um jamar jabari smith jr is having a career year from three so far uh men thompson you've put you now he doesn't have to create all the time yeah they still do cool shit with they put him in pick and roll with fred van vliet and you know what you can do you can stop a man well then fred van vliet's on the pop and he's knocking down threes like they they have cool wrinkles like that that allow him to be in play making packages and he's not going to be able to do anything else they still get him on the elbow at times and let him work but it doesn't all default to him all the time which i think is really good for them um you know shangun is shangun shangun destroyed san antonio the other night like he was he just murdered he murdered them um you know and then dudes like reed shepherd who's not shooting it phenomenally but like has had a real uptick in his ability uh to create and his assists are up like that's a step like they're not always steps scoring right like these are steps and then i think they have depth you know like you got marcus smart coming off the bench you know capella's playing minutes like you've got a depth that allows you to like withstand you know the rigors of a season and and and and foul trouble or what have you so yeah i like the way they look right now i i like them i it's gonna be interesting because in the western conference you're talking about i fully expect the spurs to hit their stride um so i'm not i'm not necessarily saying i'm worried about them but we talked about okc's you know uh injury trouble the other day and what that makes makes them ultimately will remain to be seen denver you would like their teams out there but i would not discount houston if they're gonna if this isn't like just five games fool's gold like you know they could be you know i gotta say man well let's throw some stats on there right their offensive rating uh is three in the league um they're not quite in the rosa zone of uh championship contention because their defensive rating is 14th right so their their top 10 offensive efficiency could probably get to top 10 in defensive efficiency as the the season wears on the thing that i underestimated and this is something that howard and raja who are clearly smarter than me in basketball um we're saying all last year is like fred van bleet is going to make everything shake right this is going to be a guy that is going to be the ultimate connector and i thought with all the stuff that was going on last year crumbled because they just didn't seem like a mentally smart basketball team at times right the basketball notwithstanding but like you know the offseason stuff the burner stuff the off the court things the kevin durant uh hubris that we saw last year um and he's been fantastic by the way he's been great as well i didn't even mention i can't believe yeah i can't believe that he's this good um this old in his career right and he just seems to just be right on the plate and this healthy um this late in his career considering the injuries that he had a few years ago the fred van bleet has been the ultimate connector right because you're right when i watch this team ahmed only has to play point guard in spurts and doesn't have to play it the whole game right and they just have last year it felt just really hard for them sometimes offensively right okay we have to ride maybe a kd game maybe we have to just you know piecemeal uh shangun's point guard minutes we have to figure this out and now everybody can just play really really freely you talked about a bit thompson you didn't even mention that block on wimby and i haven't even heard your thoughts on that and that was the ultimate connector right because you're right when i watch this team i'm fucking incredible one of the greatest blocks i've ever seen that's up there with uh nate robinson blocking yao ming yeah like i remember one of the greatest blocks i've ever seen did did nate here's the difference for you if i remember this one correctly nate came out of nowhere to get that at the rim right like i think so yeah might have fouled him do you know how ridiculous that was head up that was head i was guarding wimby yeah bro that was absurd that's an absurd athlete man that's bro that was i that was a that was a league pass game for me right where you're i was like okay rockets and spurs i have to watch this for the simple fact that i have to watch wimby versus kd that you don't know how many more times you're going to see this right and they go down the stretch it's a weird game it's at the university of texas right and i was going to that game why didn't you go i was gonna i was gonna surprise you i didn't get out i got stuck i got stuck home that weekend my airbnb got canceled there was f1 in austin all that stuff man i was like i'm gonna surprise you i didn't get out i got stuck i got stuck home that i couldn't get a place to stay hotel sounds like a travel we'll get to that on thursday we'll get to that on thursday but no it was it was it was uh it was crazy because like you go into that last possession i'm like oh and even kd said it in the post game like oh i think wimby is just going to come in here just go over the top and dunk it we're going home like the spurs are going to win this right and out of nowhere you do a head up and you see this with amen and asar where they just have these defensive flourishes where you're like holy shit we're gonna have to see this for the next 10 to 15 years like the league is in trouble similar to how we would see with kawai early in his career where they would just devour um the offensive player just take the ball and somehow not foul where it's just clean those are the worst types of defenders where they steal the ball or and you feel like it's a physical act and actually look at the replays like no that was clean amen is just one of the premier defenders and that was just crazy just wanted to give time for that but the rock is a rolling roger yeah yeah yeah um okay anything anything i have one thing that i want to say really quickly i'm going to go to the next question and i'm going to go to the next question quickly before we we get to the interview with brian and joel later on um i just got a disappointment man and i maybe roger's gonna film me on this i don't know but this passive aggressive beef between fucking jalen brown and jason tatum bro it's getting on my nerves it's really really getting on my nerves dude you're like your beef you're you're let me i just want to clarify your beef is that it is passive aggressive yes it's not just out front beef yeah bro like like they're they're like talking about it and they're talking about it and they're talking at each other it's like yo y'all gonna fight or not bro like are we gonna do this or not are we going to it's llama beans and lamb chops and gravy it's not beef it's like dude like raja you know you know where we come from bro if if if if this is happening on the park and we have to just see this and these two guys are just oh oh man like i don't like him but i like him he's my bro you guys don't understand be like bro like there's nothing but space and opportunity here you know like we back in my day back in my day back in howard's day and raja's day it would be a a a three-month news cycle of kobe and shack just shitting on each other calling dominguez can you come over here and can i just shit on kobe for the sunday conversation on espn can i just can i just do that really quickly please kobe jim gray can you just come here so i could just just throw a a landmine in shack's direction and then we would we we knew that they had to do something about it and then they had to do something about it and then they had to we hated each other we always had these sprinkles that that jalen and jason didn't like each other right and it bore fruit can you just stand on your stuff please that's my thing i'm just pissed because there's always just this innuendo there's always this bs can y'all just look each other in the eye and just be like i don't like you bro or like that and that's just what it's gonna be i don't like this raja i do not like this logan when you're getting into it with somebody like out in the playground or wherever you're not saying like hey man you got a great pr team hell no hell no hey hey hey uh how's that lamb and gravy how's that here's the other thing the jokes ain't even hitting bro no they suck it's all they suck all the laughs all the laughs of those scrums were just nervous laughs because they have to deal with each other for the rest of the season they were ass jokes they were terrible i'm with you like if you're gonna do this just fucking do it like they're gonna do it they're gonna do it it is really like pussyfooting around it while making like you're now broadcasting the fact we can all see it there is actual tension here and you're trying to be so nice or like in tatum's case he's still got the total nice guy face on which is actually my interpretation of jalen browns he's got a great pr team's uh line i don't even think was about anything that the team or anybody else was doing on on jason's behalf i think it was more about like just like jason tatum has this like this pure nice guy image and i think it was more about like just like jason tatum has this that he's always able to project and maybe actually be completely accurate for all i know but um but tatum just refuses to say anything and like it it's just it's funny i will say by the way shaka kobe there was a lot of innuendo and like coded talk too along somebody got punched in the face though right like in the middle of that somebody did get punched in the face not you know not on camera but you know like i'm just saying like in terms of what they would say to us and to the public um it was less shrouded than this it was less coded but there was some coded stuff and just some kind of innuendo stuff along the way too but yeah the whole thing has been annoying it's been an entirely annoying week um extended by some stuff that's that uh scal scalabrini put out there i'm not going to get into that stuff but like he he he inflamed it and made it the story last even longer than it would have otherwise it's just the whole thing needs to go away but yeah what do you think of this we're pooping on this generation raja this is a passive-aggressive bs what do you think hey man i mean like if you're i would say like this i if you are going to take jason tatum's approach to it and just never say anything about it i'm okay with that you don't have to be honest with me right like you're you're clearly not telling the truth but if you're always going to to just shield me from the truth then fine but when jalen does what he does which is i'm gonna give you kind of what's happening and allude to the fact that that's the thing that's what i'm saying just say what you gotta fucking say bro just say it like i'm okay with you saying it because we all know it and like i yeah i don't know jalen brown specifically because i have had experience doing this is an incredible moonwalker right he'll say something and then just probably moonwalk it back right that's just something that he's done throughout his career and it just annoys me it's just like dude and even howard could back me up on this if we're trying to put together a if we're trying to put together a sizzle reel like you're not losing anything but if you're trying to put together a sizzle reel to like build up this game right you're just gonna that's just a week bro you know what i mean like if nbc is like yo we're about to do the jalen brown versus jason tatum matchup you just i'm turning i'm muting that i'm gonna mute that because i don't want to see that because you guys aren't talking about anything either do it or don't do it yeah i'd like a lot i'd like them to i mean again i don't know i listen man just say it nobody's losing anything no one's losing an endorsement over that no one's splitting the fan base over like no one gives a shit man just say it we don't it's clear you guys don't like like you it was clear in the moment when y'all was lying to us then it was clear then when you would tell everybody behind the scenes i didn't want to play with each other yeah at the time like it's hard to do that then but now like jaylen's better than me because now i'm walking out well i could not have done that in my day i did not have the cachet or that was i the type of player that could leave a fan base and talk a bunch of shit on the way out but he can he can he can he can but instead you know he's in the back getting treatment when he goes back to boston because he just can't face it but you know anyway we have a great interview coming up with uh brian and joel talking about the legacy of ernie johnson that's right up next right after the break the ringer nba show is brought to you by fanduel who's gonna be fanduel's hardwood hero because all it takes is one player to have a huge scoring night to unlock another award on fanduel here's how it works use your 50 profit boost on any eligible nba bet then if any player across the nba drops 40 or more points that night you'll get another 50 profit boost and here's the fun part it doesn't even have to be a player you bet on one of the things i'm looking for scoring wise is the houston rockets they're plenty of the best offenses in the league and if you bet the over on them i think you'll be in good shape check it out on the fanduel app to get started make sure this is your most rewarding session ever with fanduel must be 21 years and older in select states or 18 and older in dc or wyoming opt-in required bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens restrictions apply see terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org backslash chat in connecticut okay and we are back ladies and gentlemen uh with two of my favorites we have joel anderson and brian curtis aka howard colesale junior and we are here to talk about um the legend ernie johnson who announced that he was stepping away after this season from inside the nba before i get to you guys i want to get into ernie's bio a little bit um gets to turner in 1989 um as a sideline reporter and then a year later is uh the host of inside the nba does it by himself for a little bit and then kenny smith and then charles barkley and later shaquille o'neal join him um just an illustrious career at turner covered the atlanta braves was the play-by-play guy for them is the son of the great legend um ernie johnson senior who was also a commentator um and now um his departure looming departure brings up so many questions and i want to get it to you guys to kind of parse through this from an nba standpoint from an nba media standpoint and also from a media standpoint in general in terms of sports and um first let's start from from the beginning question i would like to ask i'm going to start with brian what does this mean for inside the nba well first of all charles barkley was right i mean he's the one who introduced the whole idea of ernie retiring to the world and connected it to his own possibly real or more likely fake retirement i think i think the whole the whole you know can can inside the nba survive ernie johnson leaving is a fascinating question because he's one of the ultimate make it look easy guys on sports tv yeah you know it's like oh man he just goes out there and lets charles and kenny and shack have fun no he doesn't he knows exactly the key to host that show in he knows how to let those guys do their thing but also pull them back he understands how to host a show that is like a podcast that just goes deep into the night that is not as formatted as most other pre and post game shows i you know we've talked on press box about scott van pelt being a guy that we could imagine if you if you could find anybody to host a show like that i think that's a good idea i think that's a good idea if you could find anybody to do that job maybe he's the guy but that show's so unique and it's so special that i'm absolutely not convinced it could necessarily survive ernie's departure wow that's surprising to me that you didn't think because i mean the thing about inside the nba is it's on all the time without ernie johnson there's plenty of shows during the week it's not the same show right and the players will sometimes differ like maybe that's the time they have on candace parker or something but it's not the same show right and the players will sometimes differ like inside the nba is already more than ernie johnson and charles and shaq but obviously i know it's not the same thing but the show is already going you know in in the past has had many different shows with all sorts of different hosts all sorts of different analysts so while i do think that this will hurt inside the nba um i don't think it necessarily has to be a fatal blow the way that i think it will hurt is that it would make chuck and shaq a little less committed i think to a future with that show maybe that maybe that's it you know yeah and i think more than anything and me and brian and i think me and joel have talked about this as well is it's one of the last real institutions that we have in nba media right where i was watching last night and it felt like one of the last shows where everybody can watch if you know what i mean like i watched it with my wife last night and it was that's the only thing that you will watch with me right that's the only thing that you will watch with me right that's the only thing that basketball related that she will watch with me and just for the jokes just for the banter and has nothing to do with basketball and i don't think that that's something that can be replicatable and the biggest the biggest reason of that was because earning was pulling the strings right now you know he's been uh dealing with heart issues he said one of the biggest reasons why he was stepping away um was because he had bypass surgery over the last two years and that's been a big contributing factor to his decision making um but the biggest thing you know that elusa what i talked to before is ernie is one of the last every man that we have in media right you talk about the rise of pat mcafee you talk about um just how you know the the plethora of podcasts that we have right now where it's all about taking a take and having a side and it can be exclusionary to and if it's if it's if it's welcoming to one population it can be exclusionary to another population it's not the nba felt like it would bring everyone into that and a question to that with that rarity and i'll go to joel on this do we believe that that is replicable and or is that it was ernie's departure in this era of inside the nba and media in general is that just a thing of the past that we can't really bring back i mean i think it's certainly possible but uh unlikely i mean because inside the nba is probably in brian you can agree or disagree probably the best most influential studio show sports studio show of all time and so that's just not going to be replicable anyway like no matter what happens right um there's not like there was some golden era where there were a lot of shows that were just like that it's its own thing it's a very distinct um property but yeah um i i think that it's not just ernie like you have to have chuck you know what i mean and not only do you have to have chuck you have to have kenny because you have to have a sort of every man player who's also got a lot of personality. and can handle the ribbon and everything. And Chuck, again, a huge star. My mom knows who Charles Barkley is. My mom knows who Shaq is. My mom also knows who Kenny Smith is, but that's because he's a Houston Rocket. But they have these big names. They have a lot of chemistry. They're willing to play ball for the team. I just don't think that anybody, like all those elements are just not going to come together. And just because all those personalities individually, are just really difficult to find in media in the first place, right? Yeah. Absolutely. And I'm kind of convinced that sports television shows to get as big as this, to have that quality you're talking about, Logan, where you can just sit down and watch it with just about anybody and they get it, they almost need to be really old. They almost need to come from old television and be grandfathered in. Inside the NBA is like that. College game day is like that. The Fox. Pre-game show on the NFL, your mileage may vary, but it's like that. NFL primetime, I think, is another one that's like that as an institution. You almost have to go back to this time before media changed and everything got so chopped up because those just feel like they're coming in from a monoculture world that we don't have anymore. And so I'm like, if you found the Ernie Johnson of today, which is difficult, as you say, if you found all the stud players who were great on TV and all that kind of stuff, I'm just not convinced it could be that anyway. Because it's just a different time. Putting aside the talent of all the guys, which is considerable. Well, personality-wise, is there even anybody that is like, and this is going to sound funny because when he first showed up, it was clear that he was hampering the chemistry. But now I think Shaq has become good and an important part of the show. But is there even a player today that you feel like could be Shaq? Well, we tried it with Draymond and that's been a flop and everybody gets mad when he's on the show. So that's. That's not it. Yeah. I mean, I think honestly part of the key of it is if you just went in pure stardom terms and also just pure paycheck terms, Charles Barkley should be the star of the show. The show should be hours of Charles Barkley looking into a camera and having takes. It's not that. It's a four-person show where everybody feels like an equal. That comes from Ernie, right? That's dictated by Ernie. It's also, you know, some selflessness on the part of Chuck because he's willing to do that, right? He's like, I'm bigger than Kenny Smith. In television terms. But I'm not going to pretend like I'm going to, I'm just going to be like, hey, now it's your turn and your opinion's valid and you can take the piss out of me and Shaq's opinion is just as valid as mine, right? That's the magic of that show. So to get like a group of people like that and have them agree on that premise is so unlikely. Look what's happened at Game Day, which is the other show Joel and I are talking about all the time. It was a show like that where everybody had your role. Everybody had a job. We're all equals here. Now the aforementioned Pat McAfee is the heart and soul of the show. And everything's gotten screwed up. Yeah. Well, even the people that you're dressed up like, I mean, again, that kind of, I mean, which either according to Logan is Howard Cosell. I am Joe Buck, just for the record. He's Joe Buck today. But like it relied upon chemistry and people sort of playing onto each other's strengths. And now because the media infrastructure is so fragmented, like, okay, this is the thing. You don't really hear, Kenny Smith, like they do interviews, right? But Kenny Smith and Charles and even Ernie Johnson, it's not like you hear them doing their own podcast on the side or something like that. Right. So it's not, so also they're like when you hit, when they talk, it's like very rare. Like, you know, you've got to catch them talking on the show because they're all working together. It's not like they're developing separate personalities, working with different co-hosts on other podcasts. And so I didn't, to Brian's point, you couldn't even find people that would be willing to do it in that way anymore. Like you'd have, they'd be trying to get, make every bit of money in media that they could. And understandably so. Let's have a little asterisk there for the 1 million Charles Barkley credit card commercials we see during every sporting event, but I agree with what you're saying, Joe. No, it's, it's, it's really, I was watching, like I said, I was watching last night. And the thing that I kept going back to Brian is this is an institution where people, people want to come and get interviewed, right? And they want to be a part of, there were two, there were two moments that was like, oh, okay, people are really excited to be here. It was the Garrett Temple moment when they did a prerecorded interview with Garrett Temple talking about a recurring segment called Who He Played For. And Garrett Temple was the Who He Played For Hall of Famer. And they were just talking, right? And it felt like one of the big moments in Garrett Temple's career is that he gets to talk about his career with them, right? And his role within that show was a, a very community organ, a community show. And then you have Kyrie Irving after a game when your Dallas Mavericks had one of their biggest wins of the season, Brian, over the Oklahoma City Thunder. And they're just going back and forth and you see legends talking to legends in real time. And one of the things that we talked about earlier when I was on the press box, I mean, however we're on the press box was as a league, it's disappointing that a show like this has been kind of cut down to size, right? When you have an institution, like that, because these things aren't replicable. And who was at fault here? And I know we're talking about Ernie, but this is a conversation about inside the NBA as a whole and this era that we're in. How disappointing is it that it seems like for a large population that these legends are at least getting pushed out in this way? Well, I mean, I think you could probably argue that ESPN let that show breathe a lot more as the season went on last year. Sure. I think people were happy with that. But look, I think what you're talking about is, you know, there is a really kind of funny way that we got to where somebody could come on inside the NBA and want to talk to people like that. One, they have to be larger than life. They have to be Chuck and Shaq. Two, they almost have to have hot takes. Like part of it is that Charles, you know, you know, the segment you're talking about is like, oh, I don't know about basketball. Let's do this, right? Let's just, I'm going to say whatever comes up, you know, off the top of my head, right? You have to have that quality to it. So they're almost getting their comeuppance or you're messing with them or something like that. And then, as I said earlier, the show's just got to be on the air forever. It's a really, it's a really weird chemistry to get to that point. And, you know, you were talking about Pat McAfee earlier. I think the actual comp for Ernie is every other studio host who seems like they're striving a lot more. Ernie doesn't seem like he's striving. He never seems like that. He just seems like he's so relaxed. His voice is right down here. It's not up here. It's just right down here all the time. It's almost like a radio voice coming to you at 10. Sounds like Quiet Storm. He should, he should do Quiet Storm radio after this. He has a Quiet Storm voice. Yeah. And also, it's just weird because, again, at this point, a person who would sit in that role would be maybe, is not a celebrity. Not as much of a celebrity as Shaka Chuck, but they would all think of themselves as a celebrity to even get into that role. So, Ernie is a really comfortable, quiet, humble fifth man. You know what I mean? Like, he doesn't, like, he doesn't take up a lot of space. He doesn't insist upon himself. Like, there's, you could imagine, there's a lot of people that could screw this up by trying to make themselves sort of a star too. And, like, Ernie's comfortable with that. But, it all goes back to the thing that, like, you can't plan this. Like, inside the NBA did not, there's, there's no way when they put this show together that they thought this would happen. And so, we're saying, you gotta have a person like this, a person like that. It may not even be that. It may just be a group of people who have real chemistry with each other, who come across well on camera, and you're not even feeling in a slot. It's just like, you know, somebody else, something that we don't even see coming. I mean, look at ESPN. I always call it a, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, I always call it, I always say on the podcast, on real ones, like, you let basketball players be basketball players and you see what it is. You trust their intellect. You trust they are going to be. And I feel like that's what this show is, right? It's not supposed to happen that you have all of these personalities coming together, be a teammate, and try, strive for each other. But there, it was, it's one of the last shows, Brian, where it feels like these guys are actually friends and they kick it in their off time. Like my second, the team, the pre and post game team that I think is like up next to kind of have this kind of effect is the Amazon show. But I don't get the impression that they're actually homies and that they're friends with each other on and off the court. You kind of see that here where they're all, Ernie, Shaq, Kenny, and Charles, they all hang out together. They all are on a group text. They're all are like in it with each other. No matter what. And I think that that's what, something that we're going to lose even more as this, this kind of this, this, this show erodes, right? Or that's kind of what it is, right? Absolutely. I mean that, and that, that's part of what makes it so unique because I think sometimes success just has the opposite effect and it makes everybody not love each other more. It makes everybody get at odds because money becomes a thing. And why is Charles being paid so much? I'm, I'm just as big a part of the show as he is. How come he gets to fake retire every couple of years and threaten the whole thing that we've built together? Nobody there really seems to sweat this. I mean, Charles, remember was talking about going to live golf a few years ago, which you just like to get that bag. How, how mad was everybody, you know, could have everyone rightfully have been at that moment when you're sitting there giving interview after interview. I don't know. I, you know, they offer me a $50 million a year. I might just have to go to live, but nobody seems to sweat it all that much. It's funny. I think, I don't know what Kenny's financial situation is, but it, And that doesn't meet that job either. that also just creates a little bit of like casualness and comfortable and comfort that comes from people that are like, you know what, if this ended tomorrow, I'll be okay. You know? Also Logan, to go back to your point, I think inside the NBA is one of the greatest happy accidents in the history of sports TV. Like I, you know, you go back, first of all, I think Barkley joined the show in 2000. I've asked repeatedly, why the hell wasn't Charles Barkley on the NBA on NBC? He was great friends with Dick Ebersole. That question has never been answered to my satisfaction. He probably should have gone there again. Turner sports at that point in history felt like bonus basketball. It did not feel like the main event, like it would, you know, later, or at least the co-main event he winds up on this show. You know, they, they certainly had some producing candle power. I don't want to diminish that, but I don't think it was like college game day where it's like, we have this idea, right. That we're going to execute this idea. It was like the guys worked really well together. Charles didn't want to be too big of a star was willing to be a piece in the machine rather than be the whole machine. And then also it was Turner. So they had hours and hours of nothingness to fill into the night. And they just got to essentially do a podcast instead of a highly programmed TV show. What I loved about that though, and I was experiencing it last night is you get tired with them. You get loopy with them as the night goes on and we're just all in this together. And that's what, that's, that's what makes it great. What I do want to, I want to push back, like to you, Brian, though, what does this mean for the rest of the cast? What does this mean for Charles? Who says he's always going to retire and says he's going to retire after this season. He said that on bill show. What does this mean for Shaq? I believe he'll, if there's a camera Shaq's going to be in front of it. Same with Charles, but like, what does this mean? What does Kenny do? What are, what do they do around this? Cause it's never going to be the same. And I think those, those guys know that. Charles is starting to retire. As he said, a million times, somebody has always written a check that has changed his mind. Right. I don't doubt that could happen in this case, but he number one, and also Kenny and Shaq are going to have an amazing amount of influence about who sits in that seat. So they would have to find exactly the right person and would have to find the person to just let that show breathe. And again, like that's a short list, man. You know, I think, I think SVP could do it. I think he's got just the instincts to do it and doesn't have to be big enough, but I just, I mean, I can't think of another person I'd put in that seat. But wait, the other tricky thing though, the other tricky thing, you know, is a very Atlantic. Atlanta show. It's not even an ESPN property, right? Like it is, they they're leasing it, but like Joe, right. It's a, this is an, it's an Atlanta show, right? Like this is something, if you know, I interned at Turner, um, uh, Howard worked, uh, with bleacher and the Turner, um, umbrella. And like, you go to Atlanta, you were very much inundated in that space. That is a very, um, a family oriented space that is out in a lot of ways was like the anti ESPN. Right. Um, and it's going to be weird if they, bring an ESPN person to lead that show. I was thinking maybe more Adam Lefkoe has a better chance than, um, the Scott Van Pelt. I don't know why you guys think they're going to keep doing this without Ernie, because I, I bet they've never thought about replacing Ernie. They, I bet you can't, I does not. I, I can't imagine Charles and Kenny. I can imagine them having a conversation like, man, what if Ernie leaves? And it's like, well, shit, we don't go to, you know what I'm saying? I could just see it as being like that rather than who do you think would be work well with us? Like I just, and maybe I'm not giving them enough credit, um, for, you know, having the, the, the, the savvy behind the scenes to pick their, to pick their replacement. But I just think that the show is unique enough and, um, tight enough that if one guy leaves, I think they know that it can't be recreated and they could walk away. I think that too, but I just have seen Charles Barkley threatened to retire a million times with Ernie still on. The show. So, you know, like, I think there's also something even added to that. There's something added to that. I do feel like the extension of their careers were bigger than them. Right. Because there were a lot of like, it goes back to the Turner family thing, right? There's a lot of people that are producers that are line producers that are, that are people behind the scenes that are really feel like family to Chuck, Ernie shack and all those people. And they were going to be without jobs, right? They were staring down the barrel of not having gigs. And then this deal, it goes through for ESPN. It was, it was so much, it was so much more than them just, okay, I'm going to retire. They saw all these people that they're with every day be like, yo, man, I don't know what I'm going to do next year. And that also played a part into this ESPN partnership, Brian. Yeah. And those people live in Atlanta too, as you said, like that's not, you know, what are, what are, what are the other TV jobs that you're going for there? If you lose your TV job? No, I think that's absolutely right. I mean that, and that, and that's an interesting piece of this, right? Do you, are you committed to those people? That you, are you committed enough to them? And is the check big enough that you say, Hey, let's just go try to make this work. It won't be inside the NBA, but we can do something else. I just don't know. And then, and I don't, by the way, I don't think ESPN knows either. I mean, I think Barkley is one of those guys. It's like, we'll find out when we find out. And he's in no rush to tell us again, they will try to entice him because we've seen the kind of shows they've put in that slot when they had to produce themselves and they stunk, they weren't good. They were just not, they were not interesting at all. So there's a, there's a, there's a reason they, they bought this show because they did not know how to do it themselves. Well, clairvoyant, clairvoyant, Brian, I need your, I need your expertise here. Um, and I was going to lead to my next question. Like what does ESPN do with its NBA coverage? Right? Because them buying inside the NBA, releasing it out was basically an indictment on NBA today and countdown. So like if there's a world where inside the NBA doesn't happen, that they just go back to the NBA today model and the, the countdown model, where it's just, Malika having to just not knowing who's going to be there day to day. And then we're just going to have like this carousel of people come through that we really don't have like a real relationship with, or do you just, just try to lease another show? Like what is the, I don't know what the answer is for that. Joel and I have talked about this a lot. When Jimmy Pataro has been put in situations like this, he's almost always gone shopping at the most expensive store in town to try to buy his way out of a jam. He did that with Monday night football. He's apparently doing, with Monday night football again. He did that with inside the NBA. He did it with Pat McAfee. He just goes and find stars. Now would those be people that are playing in the NBA, right? You know, with those, would you, would you, would you find the guy who's about to retire, try to entice him into retirement like they did with doc, you know, once upon a time, how'd that work out? Would you try to, you know, go just figure out some way to put star power on the set like NBC and Amazon just did and try to create your own show. I don't know. Cause there aren't a lot of great options, right now. Yeah. I mean, what's, what's the problem? Cause that is the model for the ESPN show anyway, right? One, one, one or two hosts, but one consistent main host and a carousel of athletes. So what would, if they're, they can just fill that space. And I imagine that the, I don't know how much ratings matters as this instance, but I don't even imagine that it would hemorrhage that much without inside the NBA. Does that make sense? Cause I, even though the inside, the NBA is a big deal, like ESPN, some people are just going to turn and have it on ESPN just cause the game ended. Right. That's an interesting question. Like what generic replacement pregame show would be, how much it would differ if you're, if you're doing in terms of, I think that matters more in the, the difference would be less in the playoffs than it would just like on a random weekday night. Cause that I think you would probably do put butts in the seats. But to me, what it would look like is probably like Malika. And then if inside is really going away as an, as an entity, if I'm ESPN, can I get Shaq to be on my new pregame show? Man, you, you, you think they would want Shaq? Can I, can I get Kenny to be on my new pregame show? I, I think they'll look for stars is what they would look for. And I think the thing is, you'd be like, all right, we're going to lose this thing. It sucks. It's going away. Can I entice any of those people to come do something different with me? And then asking those guys and asking those guys to go to LA is a different thing than asking them to go to Atlanta. Right. Cause like, you know, Shaq has a place in Atlanta and they all like, it's just a different, it's a, it's a different ask. So like, Oh, you're going to go to LA twice a week. It's just, it's for that group. It's just, it's, it's, it's hard. That's hard to imagine. Totally. It's very, anything is hard to imagine. I'm just trying to cosplay as Jimmy Pataro right now. And I think, I think I'm shopping for stars and I'm shopping for established people that they would want. And I think I'd go to all the, of course, I go to Barkley too, and just be like, Hey, it's over. Want to come do one year of whatever this is. And then maybe another year, another year. I mean, that's where I'd start. Yeah. Where do you rank Brian Ernie? At least in my generation, you know, you guys are a little bit, a little bit older than me. Where would you rank him amongst the studio shows of his studio show host of his generation? It's, it's such a funny quote. I just did a big power ranking on press box. If people want to see the whole thing, I think here's the thing about Ernie. I think if we looked at the Costas is in the Tarikos and the Brent Musburger's and the Chris Fowler's just in terms of pure broadcast measurables, if there was a, I don't, you have, tell me what the basketball analytic, but like the DVO way, the war of broadcasting, I think measurably they would probably be, they can do different things than he can. They could do certain things. Like they could write an essay in a different way than Ernie could. They could do different things maybe at a higher level, but in terms of pure broadcast instincts, like here are the people I'm working with. I know how to handle this. I know what to do. I know how to get the best of them. I know how to shrink myself down to just the right size as, as good as any of them as good as any of those people who've done that job. What's your lasting memory, or what is going to be your lasting memory, Joel, of Ernie Johnson? This is going to be sad, and people are going to get mad at me for saying this. People are going to be mad at you? I can't believe that. But saying that he was going to vote for John Kasich. I thought you were going to say 2016 when he said, I'm praying for everybody after the election. Oh, yeah, I see that. That would have been a good one, too. But yeah, for some reason, because I, you know, yeah, I don't, look, I'm, it was so out of the ordinary. That's the thing about Ernie, is that I never really thought about him outside of the context of that show, right? Like, he was really good at being a guy who lived on TV for me. And so I'm just thinking about him relating with Shaq and whatever. Like, it never occurs to me whether he's a Democrat. Or a Republican, anything like that. And also, that was a different time. But then he, it's just like, this is the Obama year. And he's like, well, I think I'm going to go for Kasich. Or was this Trump, this is Trump, Trump, Clinton the first time. Is that, was it 2016? Or was it? 2016, yeah. It's 2016. Yeah, because Kasich was the, like, the reasonable alternative to Trump. And I was just like, okay, man. It was just funny to me. I was like, wow, I know something about Kenny now. But also, like, I mean, I think one of the, the last time he'd recovered from cancer and came on, and it just seemed, the way that the guys were so moved. Like, you could just tell, like, it was like, oh, like, my brother had just had, you know, he's, you know, he has been ill and is coming out of it. And we're just concerned about him. So, you know, maybe that show in particular as well. I wish I had a funnier story. Like, a funnier one that I'll remember. I met him one time, Logan, in person. He was out here in L.A. for a, inside the NBA media event. And I went and sat next to him because everybody was sitting around Shaq and Chuck, as you'd imagine. And so I, and I was just kind of saddled up to Ernie. We were sitting in these two chairs. And I was like, it was right after the Daryl Morey Hong Kong thing happened. And they had just done inside the NBA, outside of then Staples, about that incident. And I was like, how do you guys, like, you know, what's this show meeting like before you're talking about this, this topic that's everybody, it's freaking everybody out. And he's like, you know, we just said we were going to talk about it. We didn't like, we didn't like say what, what we were going to say or anything like that. And I'm like, only inside the NBA, we'd go into like the thorniest possible topic without knowing what they were going to say. And only Ernie Johnson would have the trust of people that run a network to be like, Hey, if this gets weird, you're going to reign it back. You're going to take control. You're going to be like, come on, Chuck. Right. And just, and just reign him in. Like that was part of his magic. Wait, actually, for a second, let me ask you then, or maybe Logan, if you know, has there ever been a time, and I don't want to be revisionist or anything here, look at this rose colored glasses, but has there ever been a time when somebody was mad inside the NBA for going over the line? Like not mad about old guys, criticizing young guys in basketball, but like truly mad at them because they were like, that is totally inappropriate. You guys should not have done that. I think, I think, I think Chuck calling the women fat in San Antonio didn't, didn't, didn't age well. That wasn't, I don't know. I don't know how it was in the moment. But he kept knowing it. And he just did it. He just did it. But I think that, I think that's more of the, if that were to happen on any other show, there would be an apology. There would be, you know, like, there would be such, I don't know. There would be an outrage. There was an outrage, but there would be an outrage that comes to the door of the show and the show would then have to speak for it. This show, you never, the magic of it was you never knew what was going to happen. Right? Like even this season where Chuck is making Casper tail jokes at Shaq, right? Like that's just, you know, like anything can happen on that show. But that's the magic of the show. The other magic. And I think that's one thing we're going to lose, Brian, at least from an NBA standpoint is the pre and post and halftime show crew that it's an event when they get there. Right? Like whenever they, whenever those people walk into a room and I've, I've seen it plenty of times, you know, it's an event you see Shaquille O'Neal just cause he's just, he's seven to right. Like he's three 50, seven, two. Then you see, then you see Chuck who was just like the every man and you see them walk and I've seen them so many times just walking along together. And like the Beatles are rock stars and we don't have any rock stars in the NBA right now. We simply don't. I think Amazon could get there at some point, depending on how Blake Griffin's show does, depending how Taylor Rooks continues to ascend. But like, that's going to be the thing is we're just not going to have rock stars that just like kind of ups the ante on the event that we're attending. I, I completely agree. I mean, however tall they are, they were larger than life. They just, they had that quality to them again. I think that's old TV. Like to get to be that. Now you may have to be Stephen A or McAfee. It might not be possible to be just done. And you got to want it too, right? Like John Madden wanted it. He wanted people to come up to him and take pictures and stuff like that. That is a part of it. Because that's interesting because, you know, and I've talked with people who know Chuck much, you know, pretty well. And like Chuck just goes around. He's just a man about town. He like, he doesn't know. Have you been, have you been to, have you been to a hotel lobby with Chuck? I have not. I haven't. I've never had the pleasure. No, but I've heard it's, it's, I've been there twice, one in Houston and one in San Francisco. And it's just, it's, it's amazing. Yeah. He'll, he'll do it. He'll do the Chitlin circuit or he'll, he'll show up, you know, on stage wherever, right. On Broadway. Like he just has a neck. He always is wanting to perform. And I was actually thinking about this when you said this, Logan, about how the NBA doesn't have a superstar right now. You're right. In that way. But I'm thinking about the people that Shaq and Chuck were and why they're actually famous. And, and part of Shaq's appeal was not just that he was good at basketball, but he rapped like he was funny. He'd been in movies. He did all this other stuff. That's why people knew who Shaq was. Cause like, it wasn't just that he was great at basketball. There are plenty of people that are great at basketball, but Shaq was like this huge bit, funny bear who wanted to do everything. Like it made him sort of lovable, at least at first. And then Chuck, the reason we know a lot about Chuck is because he was like, I mean, controversial for an NBA player. Like he wrote a book where he criticized his teammates, and then said, I didn't, you know, I didn't, I didn't work on that book. That wasn't, I don't remember that or whatever. Right. Let's not forget the commercial where he said, he didn't want to raise your kids. Yeah. I'm not a role model. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not a role model. Like, and then again, I, and I told Brian about this story when the Phoenix suns came to Houston, when I was like 14 years old, there was a promotion outside the summit that if you cut your hair off, you could get in the game for free. So my dad did that. Cause he was already, he was already bald and he cut his, got his hair cut off and we got in. And I was like, who could get, I was a Rockets fan. You know, I was just like, we were willing to do stuff like that. Something I've never done before or since. And they were just so worldly, like such interesting guys outside of basketball. And I, I know that the guys that play basketball today are worldly. I know that they're like, you know, they're into all kinds of shit. The difference, the difference between the basketball players and stars of today and the ones of yesteryear is that the ones of yesteryear, actually wanted the attention. They wanted this. They wanted all of that. They will get in front of a microphone and say anything because they actually wanted that this, this group doesn't actually want to. And they're also getting paid a lot more. The stars of yesteryear had to get in front of the camera for business opportunities for checks for just, they had to get their name out. They don't have to do that as much. Well, no, you know what the other thing is too, this gen, this generation has been doing interviews from a much earlier age. So they get cynical about the media in a way. Before that the previous generation did. I mean, I'm, I'm not going to pretend that athletes love, you know, journalists or columnists back then. Cause there was always that tension, but it's just, it was just a, you know, if you got interviewed at 18 or 19, it was a 17 year old high school athlete. It was a very big deal. Like I, Shaq played, he played in an AAU tournament at a track meet. I ran it as a kid in San Antonio. And it was the first time I'd heard of Shaq. He had graduated from high school. He was a senior and he'd won his AAU tournament. And I have a picture of Shaq on the front page of the San Antonio, whatever newspaper him dunking on it as a high school student. And I was like, man, who is this guy? He's going to be pretty cool. Well, we had never heard it. So he, of course he loves me. They, you know, they remember a time when nobody really cared who they were and they could, they had a time to grow into their stardom. Whereas this generation of guys, they are in, in probably why we'll never get another Shaq or Chuck is that they're trying to hone their public image in such a way that it saps out all the sort of, personality or rough edges that made Shaq and Chuck lovable. If that makes sense. Yeah. Last question that I have for Brian, before we get out of here. So Brian, I'm going to put you into the future. You're it's 20 years from now. You may or may not be wearing that costume. Who knows, but you have your grades. I may have blonde hair. Who knows? You may have blonde hair. I'd be white. And you're gathering everybody around. You're guiding your kids and your grandkids. And you're telling them, you're like, Hey, come over here. Whippersnappers. I want to tell you a story. You're, you're, you're beginning to tell them about inside the NBA and Ernie Johnson. What a terrible story. What's the first thing? And what are you going to tell them about that show? You gather kids around and tell them about inside the NBA. Yeah. And that's what I, are you, are you not aware what old people do, Joel? That's literally what they do. That story is not working on kids no matter what, but go ahead. Before they walk away, what are you telling them? That's on TNT. They're like, what's TNT? Well, thank you for using whippersnappers. My dad used to call me that. So I always loved that. That's a great, wonderfully antiquated term um i would think I would say is a show it was a show it was a rare show on television that was about friendship and not just a rare sports show but the rare show of any kind that was about friendship and that that was the theme was basketball but that's what came through the television screen and that you know if you can replicate that in any way as a podcast or as a hologram 20 years in the future whatever uh technology my grandchildren are watching that's I'd say you've done something amazing because that's what those guys did brian curtis ladies and gentlemen you can catch uh him and joel on the press box on thursdays you can catch joel on ringer tailgate and you can catch brian his alter ego joe buck on monday night football um you're absolutely right well you have come a long way from you thinking he was howard coso right right i thought i was gonna get a sub stack plug and instead joe buck got a monday night football plug that was amazing thank you for that i apologize i apologize you could also check out the podcast and i'll see you in the next one out brian's sub stack now they tell us which i am a proud subscriber of um thank you guys so much we'll see you guys very soon somewhere out there is a chevy truck and the person who drives it well that's a chevy person you probably know one your buddy your sister ones who always show up they're the first to rise the last to leave they always have that little extra something and maybe you've got it too chevrolet together let's drive visit chevy.com slash trucks to explore the lineup and we are back ladies and gentlemen great interview um now for a segment that we're bringing back for the first time this season real one of the week howard who's your real one of the week i mean i feel like we all have the similar real ones of the weeks but you know don't hurt to ask i don't know i mean listen um i have not been able to listen to your interview with uh joel and brian yet and i'm sure there are all kinds of amazing stories and insights about ernie johnson his greatness the role he has played in our universe um i have to go with ernie johnson as real one of the week myself i don't think i've shared this story before so i'm going to do it now uh the only other time to do it would be to after their last show um well i think i'm going to be too emotional we all will after that one as emotional as chuck was on the broadcast the other night um so you guys know i spent seven years working at bleacher turner sports and that whole broader conglomerate it went through like it was time warner it was at&t i don't even know by the end but um so we were loosely teammates under the same banner and i'd been down to atlanta a couple of times for various assignments that i was you know stories i was working on and i didn't know ernie well but every time i'd met him was just like as as you would expect from everything you can see and hear just the consummate pro the consummate gentleman nicest guy in the world and i'm not really in his universe we are loosely under the same you know corporate structure whatever but just was always great to me if i was going down there and i was you know i needed chuck or shack or kenny for something and then ernie and i would chit chat for a little bit um but did not know him well the reason i bring all this up is that in august of 2000 in the darkest days of covid i get a phone call from turner saying they are uh killing our entire section at bleacher report we had what was called br magazine it was like you know mostly the long form stuff um like it was the journalism department as i always referred to it and they were just eliminating it and all of us were gone all the writers all the editors and so the first time in my life i've been laid off um and it's really unsettling it's it's it's uh it it's tough it's just a thousand ways that it's so tough and especially then amid covid where the whole world is uncertain and now like my career has been yanked out from under me at a time like that you really note who reaches out to be supportive and who doesn't i'll just say it without naming names there were some people at bleacher report and in turner overall who i did not hear from who i think owed it to me and it and that hurt um and i'm sitting there within a day or two after the news hits and my phone rings and it's it's a number that is not in my phone and it's it's uh i think atlanta's like 404 right yep so 404 comes up i don't know who it is i answer could have let it go thinking it was spam but i i instinctively just answered hey howard this is ernie johnson and i was like stunned if i didn't have the distinctive voice i would have thought i was getting pranked um and we didn't spend much time on the phone but he called just to say hey you know uh hate to see this happen basically like i can't remember the exact words it was basically like really sorry this happened you know you know much respect for you and you know wishing you the best and if there's anything i can ever do this is my number feel free to reach out anytime i didn't have ernie's number like i said this was like a number that came up without any id on it and i and ernie probably got my number from somebody else at turner um but i was i was like blown away i was just so moved like we knew each other very casually and he didn't have to do that and i wouldn't have expected him to like i said there were people in positions of responsibility who had my career in their hands who did not reach out and should have um but ernie johnson did at at one of my lowest points in my career and uh it meant the world to me in that moment um the next time i saw him when once covid restrictions were lifted we were able to move around again and i saw him somewhere on the road and and was able to convey that to him directly my appreciation but i'll do it again here uh just appreciate the hell out of out of what he did for me that day um and obviously everything he's done for the nba and for all of us who who love the game um and have enjoyed that show for decades now um yeah look it couldn't go on forever we're all gonna be sad to see him go but uh yeah ernie johnson's my real one of the week yeah ditto man real one of the week one of the great um just people in this in this league yeah um i echo everything you said that's the incredible story and like also not unlike the a lot of stories that i've heard about ernie throughout the years so yeah ross you got it you got one or you um yeah i was i was i was gonna go ernie um but i my ernie um tribute wouldn't be nearly as good as howard so i'll pivot um i want to i want to be i want to walk around this one i'm giving real one of the week um to someone who's i'm i have a family member that's really close to um i'm giving real one of the week um to someone who's i'm i have a family everyone knows my son plays at texas um he's qb3 on their depth chart right now and over the last few weeks um their qb1 has been everywhere it's been super polarizing there's been a lot of chatter a lot of noise um i think playing at the university of texas brings that in and of itself but with his last name um it becomes even more of a powder keg and you know watching it from afar as a dad and as a parent um i felt for him because the noise was loud and you know i i think at some point it can't help but get to you and so i was watching you know fascinated my son wasn't the next up to bat so i've got no skin in the game i'm just watching to see how he handles himself amid amidst all of this pressure and they're paid and and and you know they're paid handsomely so i understand when people say that that pressure comes down on them but i'm just watching to see what comes with it i'm not denying that i i am saying these are still really really young men though and that is a lot of pressure right and so you know i watched it um i had hopes for it and i think he stood in the face of that and whether whatever side of the ledger you fall on about about how that game unfolded and they they beat old miss and he did not crumble under the weight of all of what was going on and that's real bro because it was a it was a lot there was a lot of noise out there and so i want to give them uh as a as a as a family and the kid himself arch who by the way huge basketball fan i sat with him on dia's official visit a year and a half ago um super great kid or young man just wanted to talk basketball the whole time which i found really like really cool like he's a super fan but i'm giving him real one of the week because you know that was a lot and it was hard for me watching him and i'm giving him watching it and i'm not even his dad yeah it's tough man all right man uh that's been another edition of real ones um we holding it down uh to you guys next week thank you brian thank you joel um thank you howard and raja talk to y'all soon ah all the bye must be 21 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