Making a Difference: Changing Lives, Building Communities and Inspiring Hope - Episode 170

This is the 1230 TWC Business Beat Radio with Jackie Groundsell on Love to Beat Radio. Hello, hello, hello, hello and welcome to 1230 TWC Business Beat Radio. I'm Jackie Groundsell and I'm your host for the next two hours. I have some super, super guests in here with me today, or local people, which is really fantastic because I love the beat radio where we are broadcasting from here right in the heart of Penge High Street. It is computerised, it is internet, so it's local but it goes worldwide and it's so nice when we can have local people coming into the studio. They're grinning at me, they're not sure about that. Honestly, it is so hot in here. But we have the fans, so anyway. Chris Tuck, you were the first here today, let's do it in that order. Chris, if you'd like to introduce yourself? Hi everyone, lovely to be here, Jackie, thank you for inviting me, so I am a local pengite. If you want to call yourself that, I grew up in and around Penge, and Lee Road, Crystal Palace before I went off to Bromley and Westwickham, but I'm always popping in and out of Penge to get anywhere really to be honest. I used to work at Warworths across the road, I used to work at McDonald's, which is a few doors up here, so I'm very grounded in this local community area. Yeah, it's a great community area, and I think also, I'm in Judean Ian, who were in the curtain shop drapers, they retired fairly recently, but they saw, I think they did their lease, 25 year lease and sort of did like that. And I think that's why it's really good and you've got Murray Brothers who, with terrific butchers there, except for vegetarians of course. And then I'm going to give a shout out to Sam over in the repair centre, whether you're with those or whether you're Apple Mac, he's your guy or your phone, he's the one to go through, because he and AJ are absolutely brilliant, I always always recommend them. So Chris, we'll be coming back to you in a moment, Amanda, over to you. Hi, I'm Amanda Wright, I'm the chair of the Friends of Best Park, and I'm a lover of books, pandas and local history. I'm born and bred in up and all wood, traveled the world, and now I'm settled in Analy. Well, and also she tells me that she's sat here that she's a very experienced DJ as well, so we're both in student radios. For one and only nine six three famous for Simon Mayo, Steven Merchant, Timmy Mallet, to name but a few, and now me. We've had Robbie Vincent in here, do you know Robbie Vincent? No, no, no, no. Do you know of him though? Oh shame on you girls, I'm a boys. LBC, BBC Radio. Anyway, never mind, thank you Amanda, that's great. And I feel very humble being in your presence with what you want you to do and it explained it all. I'll end over to you. Afternoon Jackie, thank you for inviting me soon. I'm Alan Pottinger, and I live in Analy. I suppose some people say that's Penge, but I would say Analy, because when people say where do you live, and you say Analy, you get this long cold blank stare as they have no idea. And then you say Penge, and you get a sort of vague, confused look because they've heard of it, but nobody's quite sure where Penge is. And then when you say crystal palace, the lights come on. People suddenly realise that actually there isn't such a place as crystal palace, but everybody knows where you live then. Yeah, it's interesting what you say about Analy, because I was brought up in Maple Road near Chalen Street. And my mum swore blind that our fence was the dividing line between Penge and Analy. Although our postcode was SE20 Penge, we actually lived in Analy, so I'm with you on that one. She's absolutely right. The boundary does go down there, and the SE20 postcode is actually the Analy postcode, not the Penge postcode. Really? If you check with the Royal Mail, they allocated it as the. this is why I'm quite so boring. They allocated it when they did a round of postcodes, and this had from 20 to 28 or something to go. And they did it alphabetically, and Analy was the next one on the list. So even today the Royal Mail parcel place just up in Benham Road is still known as the Analy post, Analy Royal Mail depot, not the Penge depot. So I'm sorry to disappoint people at Penge, but I'm afraid it is the SE20 Analy postcode. That is fascinating. I'll never know that. Did you know that, Chris? No, and I was brought up in Analy as well. Jasmine Grove. Analy Road. No, Jasmine. Toeville Close. That's all Analy. Yeah. I'm full of useless information. If you want to know anything else completely, you will never need to know again in your life. I'm sure I've got an answer somewhere. Well, this is a show for you. Yeah. We love all those, if it's like that. It's really useful. It's really useful. So, stay in with you, Anand. How did you actually. The secretary of the Fred's Betz Park, aren't you? But what is your background? And how did you get involved with them? My background. I was actually a trainer at various places across London. And I was a typical trainer in a corporate trainer. So I would train whatever people would pay me to teach. That's a good answer. That's a brilliant idea. Sounds a bit mercenary, but that's the way it goes. I did sales training. I did very early. Oh, soft skills. Soft skills, but I also did some hard skill training in. Oh, Anand, you know, it's such a long time ago. I can't remember now. But I do remember rolling out the very early days of home video conferencing where I would teach people how to look half decent in front of the camera without ending up with a shot in their life. Oh, my goodness. Or a mouthful of sandwich, which was. That was quite good fun. Did you ever come across "Hello World", as I've been. No, it doesn't ring a bell. It was pre-skype. Oh, no. It was a long time ago, Jackie. Oh, no, sorry. You need to ask your mom and dad, I guess. 3.1. But the thing is, it was actually a brilliant piece of software. It was owned by. And creative buyer has been a wife in America. The problem was our broadband couldn't cope with the sophistication that they were actually trying to run. And so it did go for a little while, and I did. My background is either training in Microsoft. So we did go around the UK, showing people. But it would fall over all the time, and that was the problem. So yeah. So I'm not actually a Londoner. I lived here because it was easier to commute to work but I was bored and raised in the Vale of the White Horse, which was in Baccia then. But I think it's in Oxfordshire now. And grew up there and moved all around the country and just ended up in London by accident, like a lot of people do. And I came to Amali, or 20-something years ago, and really liked living around here. Because it's just. It's like a little bit of old fashioned London. It's. It has this odd sort of community where everybody is fairly genuine. It's really hard to explain to people. But I normally try and tell people that it's one of the only places I've ever lived, where there isn't a pot shend. Now that's something I'm sort of lost for words there, really. But that's going to. Except your house, obviously, Jackie. Except, yes. 1770. Do you remember Sunset Street? No, you wouldn't remember that. Oh, Sister Bush Goh, 1777. It was a TV programme with cookie and older people. I don't think it's allowed to cook older people. I think it might be a crime, Jackie. No, definitely a case for asking you about the day to go out and say things clearly. Yeah. So, I got into Betts Park around the time of lockdown. If you remember those glorious days, when the rule told to stay home and do nothing at all. Well, some of us did. Well, I decided that. I couldn't bear it after the first half hours. So, I decided to walk every street in Pengeon, Annally. I ended up walking every street, even the ones that don't go anywhere. And it was really good, really eye-opening. It was so lovely and quiet out there, because everybody was terrified inside the houses. And then eventually, I started walking Betts Park and realised that a lot more people were using it. And it was slowly cheering up. And I got friends of Betts Park Group started in 2020. And I got involved quite early on as a secretary of the group. Which is brilliant, but then of course there was a library there when I was at school. Yeah. Depends which library you mean there has been two. There was one. Do you want more uses of information? No, no, please go for it. The original library came with the park. It was part of the request from Frederick Betts. He bought a library which stood next to the canal. It was a really glorious old house. Is that the one you mean? Yes, of course it is. I don't have to ask why, but I'm a dead old set. But there was another one slightly further down Annally Road, because when they demolished the first one, they built a little prefab. That's right, further down the road. But that library actually became famous. That was set back a bit, wasn't it? Yes, it was. I think it was just sort of concrete blocks. I've seen a few photos of it, it doesn't look terribly appealing. It's glorious tower and it's big rooms and splendid gardens which eventually would become Betts Park. That was built as a vicarage for the church that used to stand on the corner of. Oh, what's it called? Where the pub was on the corner? Robin Hood. Robin Hood, crossroads. There used to be a big church on the corner there. And that was the vicarage for the. On the opposite corner? Yes, diagonally opposite. It was the vicarage of that. No, Christ Church was further down. I think it was Christ Church, Christ Church Analy, I think. - It's a Trinity. It's Holy Trinity. - Yeah, because Christ Church was a corner of Franklin. - Right, you're probably right. I'm not very good with my churches. - No, I've got all used to go to Brownies and things. (laughing) - So there was enormous library there. - Right. - Right next to you. - Do you know, I cannot visualize that library. I just know it was there and I know I went there. But so for you to give that graphic description is amazing. - Can you remember the creaky floors? - Yeah, I think it was because that's what most people do about. And occasionally every summer when we have a long hot summer the foundations rise up out of the ground again. - Oh, really? - Yeah, they just spookily do. And you can see the outline of the bay windows, of the tower, of the different rooms on the ground floor. It's quite, yeah, odd. - Wow. - Well, that's got to be, you've got to have a program of some sort, an event or something. When we know it's going to rise. - Well, house raising, so many of us. I think we should get a ducking stall and ducksing through the canal. I don't know quite a good. - Oh gosh. Oh, thank you for that, I was sure there's lots of other lovely stories coming there. Amanda, what about you? What's your background apart from student days of radio? - Well, as I said earlier, I grew up in up and over. It's not far from here. And Betsy Park to me then was just a park that was used to pass on the 157 bus. I didn't really know it back then. And then I read English at Cambridge. I left London. I went on to live in Coventry for a while. Did I impel at the University of Birmingham? And then I started a PhD at Warwick. And that's where I got involved in student radio. And that's where you see used carts and splicing and razor blades. None of this digital nonsense. It's amazing that I do. - And how long did that actually take you to get a show together in that way then? Or was it just timeless in that? Back because I was the art seditor. So you said a morning show where I used to play music and invite friends on. And had little prizes. So chocolate bars I used to give out. But then on a Monday night, 7 o'clock, I still remember it. It's just gone 7 o'clock and you're listening to Amanda Wright on W-963. And on tonight's show we've got Patrick Hall. Well done. So I used to get, I used to be great. As I said, I used to get loads of press tickets. I used to see so many things. Some things I would never have seen because you know you wouldn't pay money to go and see these things. But unusual things. And it was fantastic. But you said the plan you show well in that bath. If you had interviews, especially in if I was splicing them up, it did take a while. So it's not, you just couldn't just like coming in the morning and just go for it. You used to have the plan this. - I do plan. - I do plan. - Not saying that you didn't just do it. - Not saying that you don't. - I don't. - I wouldn't like you to think I don't plan. But no, I mean that's amazing to sort of go back and visualise it. You sit there with your tape and join it all up and everything. And then to get background noise. So you'd usually go in a bath with your tape recorder and you'd like record the environment before anyone speaks. So when you're joining the tape stop, so there's any gaps in the interview. You put that on so there's consistency. So people don't realise you have to do all that kind of thing. Amazing. It used to be great to fund those. Really good. So from the other, that's amazing. So from your student days you then went, well my, what was the aim? Did you have a name at that time or? - No, not really. I just, you know, put it off the real world as long as possible. Which I'm still doing, to be honest. So my supervisor at Warwick, he'd gone on a conference to China. And I'm a big fan of pandas. So everyone called me 'Manda de Panda'. So he went there and they were just before the Beijing Olympics. And he wanted to write an education film for their Olympics. And he said, I know someone who writes well, he only likes pandas. So they spoke to me. I wasn't ready for the real world yet. So it was just to be one year in China making this film and then come back again. But I really liked it there. So it was one more year. I did some teaching, another year. And from there I travel. It's more central than England. You could travel to Australia, all over Asia. It doesn't take so long to travel somewhere. So I used to travel, do a bit of teaching, a bit of writing. And then eventually came back to England, back to up and forward. Because my parents were getting on the bits. They had to look after them. Then had the daughters, they had to look after her. But continued writing. But as a ghost writer, I find it takes the pressure off a bit. You know, there's a lot of pressure when people look at you and they read your work. And then they go, why did you write this? Or is this about me? At least now nobody knows who's writing about them. So you might find yourself in the story one day and you'll think, "Hmm, I don't recognise this name, but I wonder how mandaro this." Do you write blogs? People say I should. I don't. Because again, you know, you're. I mean, now I'm online so much with Bets Park. It's like a blog now. I'm blogging the Bets Park life. But no, like none about my own life. Yeah. I'm interested. And then in 2024, I moved from up and all to Analy. And I lived just opposite Bets Park. And you get beautiful views of the sunset from the park. And I just fell in love with the park. And then two years ago, Alan was doing tours of the park about the history. As you can see, there was a lot about the history of the park. So I went to one of the tours and I really enjoyed it. He was really good at it. I have to say. Not good imagine. And then I liked the old cuss of Alan's tube. So at the end, I said, "Oh, I'd like to get involved with the park." And at that stage, I think I just meant a bit of little picking and stuff. But then I just got more, more kind of new Justin, little picking. Can you Chris? And then eventually last September, I became the chair. So probably little picking, I went to running the whole Shabbang. And very pleased we are too. We're very pleased that you took the job on. Oh, thank you. Two kinds. When do you do your tours? Do you got any coming up? I haven't done any for a few years now. I did them, oh gosh, two years, two and three years ago. We did these history walks around the park, going through all the history. But we might do them again next year. You need to, because I'm coming along. Next year is a very special year for Analy, because it's exactly 200 years since the very first house was built in Analy. Oh, wow. So it's not many towns actually have a data foundation, but Analy does. Because we know the day that the first man bought the first plot of land and built the first house, which he called Analy, which is the Scottish dialect word, meaning only. And it was the only house on Penn common. And that story often repeated is actually true. And it wasn't long afterwards when the canal was sold and the railway wanted to come through, that they had to buy land off this Scottish guy to run it right past his house, basically. And he said, "I will, but I won railway station." And they said, "Well, what should we call it?" Analy. And what was his name? His name was William Sanderson. He'd never had any children, fortunately, had a wife. He came from, I think it was Galashiels in Scotland. He was a silk exporter in Victorian times. And he wanted to move away from London because the smoke was affecting his health and his wife's health. So they went to the auction of Penn to common. And he bought, I think it was five plots of land, which was quite a lot. He was representing the consortium. And he came down the day after the auction and picked where he wanted to put his house, which was right on the bend in the canal. And there's one vague picture of his house, which is held in the front of me. And it's a bit blurred and a bit old fashioned. Do you know they put those blue plaques or brown plaques on people's houses or in the spot? Do you think we could get that for that? The house has gone through the door. Yeah, I know the house, but the spot. What's the name of the road? It's now, if you go up Jasmine Grove. Yeah, it's a person. Oh, no. You sort of, let me think. You're going to Jasmine Grove from the Royal Oak. Or what, you see? Yeah, from the middle of the end. Yeah, turn right. There's a road before you get to where Jasmine Grove has stopped. There's a road on the right. I thought it began to be. I can't face that. Brunt or Brustin or I can't remember. Right. I'll just have a look on if I can see the car. Yeah, I'm going to say a little bit of homework while we're in the studio. Yeah. You keep talking, I'll look at you. But that enginey, the Royal Oak, is where I was born and where I grew up. We're going to come into your cruise. I just wanted to add something. First of all, well, three things actually, I'm thinking while you guys are talking from Bets Park. First of all, is, as you know, I went to Penn Checkery Model School for Girls. I have all the photograph albums and slides from that school. Oh, wow. Okay, because I used to run reunions up there. Yeah. I've also got a couple of the magazines called "Pensiect", which apparently means one square mile. Supposedly. That's why I have head teacher. No, shaking my head. No, he's shaking furiously there. But I don't know if that's of interest to you. Also, have you come across the club in Elmer's End? What club? It's called the club. The club by Duffdale, which is for seniors. And they like interesting speakers. Wow. And I've actually already put you guys forward. Whether you want to or not. Because they obviously would like speakers to do different things, like they did Chris's puddings and stuff like that. So there's different, they have music nights and afternoons and high teas and everything. But I just think, when we come to Eucharist, our listeners will know that you've also got an interesting though sad at times story to tell. Yeah. I think, you know, all of you, they'd be really, they'd snap you out. So, yeah, definitely have a tour. - Yeah, I love a tour. - What time are you talking about, Alan? - We're probably looking at June, July, next year to do this 200 years. - The 200 year, yeah. - The family celebrations. We're hoping to do Penge Festival type thing in Betts Park. - Ah, brilliant. - And not really any other ideas yet. We've got to talk to the council as soon to try and start getting it moving because we need an awful lot of ideas, a lot of work. - And you get lot refunded in as well for that kind of thing? - No, you probably won't get for that. - What? - What, community heritage? - It's really, funding is a really sticky, - It's so huge, it's really about me. - Well, as you know, and we know, we spend an awful lot of our time chasing money, and you won't get money for wrongly council. - No, no. - It sounds like a slur, I don't mean that, because I ride you home, because that's my council tax, and I don't want to give it to me. - It's a vicious circle, isn't it, really? I'm a sauté, you know, it's a very difficult one. It's a sauté. I'm also a member of the Beckham Town Centre team, which may be a useful link up at some point. - If they're paying money, we'll do anything. - Ah! - No, it's all voluntary. - But equally, you can send sell tickets via a vent briot if they, you know, contribution to something. - Yeah. - Sell them in advance, and then you'll be, I'm gonna come back to you guys, I'm conscious we had left Chris out. - All right. - Come on then, Chris, please introduce yourself, but expand on how your background, and how you got where you are now. - So I was born and brought up in and around Penn's, my whole life, really. Unfortunately, the life that I lived in Penn, I came from a very abusive and dysfunctional home life, and I ended up in John Baird House three times, 'cause it was a homeless unit, and I'm trying to find details out about it, but it's not anywhere. So John, John Loughy Baird apparently, was the person who started that. - Invented television. - It's correct. - It's called a radio, sorry. - So that block of flats was named after him, but London Borough of Bromley, obviously, used it as a homeless unit. - Anyway, so as a result of my childhood, and complications from that, when I was 30, I had a breakdown at work. I'm a childhood management accountant by trade, so I should have been happy and healthy at the age of 30, with a career, a husband, roof over my head, and a baby, but it all came crashing down and had a breakdown. And that's called the trauma impacts because of adverse childhood experiences, ACEs, which are very well documented scientifically, and the impact of ACEs is documented. Mentor, emotional and physical health impacts from all of that, but I turned it around, and I used my breakdown to be my breakthrough, and I did a lot of training in trauma, holistic health and wellbeing, and I've now run a charity for 10 years, called Survivors of Abuse, and I have run a local health and wellness business in Westwicken for the last 23 years. So in all tents and purposes, I've made a full recovery, but I also now tackle and hold to account the government on pledges, promises that they made when we did the eight-year inquiry into child sexual abuse, and I was part of that for 10 years. And it is an ongoing slog, 'cause I can't swear, so I'm gonna use the nearest word to words that. It's hard work holding people to account, to get things changed, to better protect children and young people, from sexual abuse and exploitation. There isn't a day that goes past when we don't have a story on mainstream media or across social media, where it might be online abuse, intra-familiar abuse, grooming gang abuse, whatever, it's out there, and it affects one in 10 people, Jackie, many people think it's over there, and it's not an issue that affects the-- - On the internet, it's a frightening, 'cause it's a success. - But it's one in 10, so that's three children in every class of 30 children are being sexually abused right now. That's the stats, that's the prevalence, and then the impact often comes later on in life, because you don't know what you don't know when you're going through, and it's normal to you. - Yeah, yeah, that's something I'm gonna say. - So that's a bit more detail about me, so I empower people to recover from childhood abuse in all its forms, and bullying, whether it be at school, or in the workplace, 'cause there's a lot of that that's going on as well, and I'm a corporate trainer speaker, and I will go anywhere, and speak to anybody, as long as it has an impact and makes a change. When we had an inquiry that ran for eight years, and we spent 168 million on it, and 7,000 survivors went through it, we've got a major problem, and yet they're still trying to shut it all down, and we can't let them. - What's their argument for shutting it down? - Well, basically they don't act on it, and they don't implement the recommendations that came out of it. So if you look at any inquiry that's ever happened in this country like the Blood Infection scandal, the post office scandal, they all had their inquiry, they came with recommendations, yet the government didn't implement them, so you've now got people that have died, still waiting for their justice, their redress, their compensation. And I think child sexual abuse goes to, it's a public health concern, it's that bad, but I think because it is so intrinsic in our society, people don't want to talk about it, that's why it always gets pushed down, suppressed, and not spoken about, as I want it to be spoken about. Yeah, it's not nice to speak about, but you know, Nor was cancer 10 years ago, when you spoke the word cancer, like it was almost like, you know. - Well, it's not on a par by any stretch of imagination, but given that I have a menopause gang, which every six to eight weeks on the radio, when you think back a bit, that wasn't spoken about either, but I mean yours is so horrific that it's necessary. - Yeah. - It's horrendous, it's horrendous. I'm just gonna do a thank you, Chris, for that. I'm just gonna have a, did you have a question? No, I'm just gonna have a quick wit round in terms of how everybody gets in touch with you, and then I'm gonna play a little bit of music. So, and how people get in touch with you, stroke, Amanda, how's it work? - The easiest way to get in touch with us is via our Facebook group, which is, oh dear, Facebook.com/group/friendsofbetspark, or just go to the website, which is bitspark.com, and there's an email address at the bottom, and all the links for getting in touch. And we honestly don't mind who gets in touch so long as they're interested in our park. Is that what, and you wanna have? - No, I think you've covered it. Yeah, the website, so www.betspark.com, and all the information is on there. - Excellent, thank you. And what about you, Chris? How people are gonna get in touch with you? - They can just type in my name, Chris, Tuck, and I'm everywhere, 'cause I've made it my business to be everywhere. - Okay, that sounds fair enough. You're getting an opportunity to repeat that later on. - 1230TWC, Business Beat Radio, Monday's 2-till-4PM UK time, tips, inspiration, fun, tunes, four and from Business Women, on all the socials, www.1230.co.uk, at Love to Beat Radio. - Hello, and welcome back, a little bit of feedback there, but we survived the tell story. (laughing) So, happy birthday, whoever's got a birthday roundabout now, so we were just touching in the background there on birthday, so Chris, I think you said your husband's, was a good one. - Yeah, he's 56 in July, mid-July, yeah. - Okay, and Chris, who's in the studio with us today, he's birthday seventh in July. Amanda, did you have anyone? - Our treasure climbs, brothers, is his birthday Friday. - Oh, right. - So he's got to leave our meeting early, so go to his brother's birthday. - Oh, right, okay, okay, so he's cacle around them. What about you, Ellen? You said your mum's coming out. - My dear 88 year old mother, who is in the wilds of Dorset, it will be 89. - Oh, wow. - She won't appreciate me saying that. - Oh, I know the feeling. Oh, well, happy birthday to everybody, excuse me. To everybody who's been recent or is coming up, and as we always like to send out our good wishes to all the trials and tribulations and horrendous things that are happening across the world, locally or wider than that, just know that we are thinking of you. - Oh, dear, for our church, dear. It's so hot in the studio, don't dry. - So we were just saying before the break, my husband's been a member of the Crystal Palace Fishing Lake since he was 15. That's a lot, it's not exactly sure what year, the Angling Association, whatever the posh words. It's something like that. I'm not sure what year it started, but I was talking to Melvin of the Crystal Palace Foundation the other day and he said it's the longest running single association in Crystal Palace Park and it is probably one of the nicest as well because it just carries on on its own. It must be wonderful to get in there and Daniel are hooking that lake. I don't know what the wait list is like but when I used to go up there because obviously I've been with my husband for 40 years since we were 15 and we used to go and feed the carp before fish and season happened. Wow and they like literally they're quite big and they just come to surface and you could just feed them boilies or bread. So if you catch though you allow to take them out? No, no, got put them back. Then she did it again. Yeah, I'm not allowed to eat them. I want about dinosaurs. Fabulous. I grew up with them. Can't eat them either. No. I didn't know until fairly recently that children used to actually back of the day used to play inside them. Yeah, not long time ago. Not strictly speaking. You were never actually really allowed to go in there. It used to be a lot easier to get onto the island in the middle. There was like a raised part on the other side obviously where that funny little swing bridges now and you could sort of sneak across. I think it's such a shame that it has been neglected for such a long time where you got that waterfall and it was also pretty all around there. Where the bridges. Yes. Yeah. The Rickety-Rackety bridge. Yeah. I believe the waterfall is somewhere on their list of things to restore to the park. I think the dinosaurs look absolutely amazing how they've been done. The top terraces look superb. I just beyond my wildest dream I wouldn't have thought that we would ever see Crystal Palace Park restored. The trust took over. I was probably the original skeptic thinking, oh yeah, heard it all before. Been there before. Councils, certain people keep turning up with these grand ideas from China. I'm very excited to be able to use this. I wrote people in and then nothing happens other than somebody paints something green and they all go home again. But I'm really impressed with what the trust has done and I'm not. It's not easy for me to give compliments on the best of days. I'm going to have to watch this one then. What did you say your name was? My name is Amanda. Do you remember the adventure play park up in the park when I was 14? I used to go and play up there. All the right screens. Yeah, right up by the one o'clock club. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was all good fun that was. The ski slope. Yes. Can't remember ski slope. Yeah. Where they used to do the cars. We used to go swimming in the swimming pool. And yes, I remember they never used it, but I did go up there. And I can remember when it was a racetrack going up there with my mum and dad when the racetrack was over there. Motor racing. Yeah. And bike. Because all of that part is dependent on the mayor of London not on the Crystal Palace Park Trust. I do. Because where it gets so confusing. Well, reckon that there's an enormous part of money being set aside to redo the sports centre. It's just the leases are really confusing in the parks. The bit in the middle is run by the GLA in the mayor of London. The bit around the outside is leased by the Crystal Palace Park Trust. Yeah. It's difficult. It's like Beckenham Place Park. It's owned by Lourisham. Yeah, it's all in Lourisham. It used to be broadly. But people do get confused because they're both Beckenham Place Park. I think it's in Beckenham. No. But Amanda, you're quite quiet. What do you think about? Oh, no. I was just thinking when I was young, so I grew up in Appenore and so Crystal Palace Park was like a big thing to me. And from my bedroom window, you used to look on to Crystal Palace Tower. And I used to always imagine how it must have looked 100 years before when Crystal Palace was there. So my mother told me this story that was made of Crystal and I believed it per years. But now, you know, I'm really into the history of the Crystal Palace. And that's why Alan and I are both involved in the Crystal Palace Foundation, which is like saving all the relics from the Crystal Palace days. So we're well into that as well as Best Park. Does that include the railway, you know, with the arches and everything? Is that the foundation or the trust? When you say the railway, do you mean the old high-level station? Yeah. No. No, no. The subway. Yeah, the subway. Where there's those lovely brick arches. That's where it gets even more confusing because half of the subway is in Southwark. Half of it's in Bromley. And the part that's been restored, I believe, is the Bromley part. The other side where it opens out onto the old high-level railway is waiting for the next phase of restoration and the subway to the best of my knowledge. I could be wrong. Oh, interesting. I keep saying to my husband, we must go because they look the images, the pictures of the arches and everything. So, I believe that the Crystal Palace Foundation, I'm sure the Crystal Palace Foundation won't mind me plugging a book that we've been working on. No, I'm a piece, too. Well, Melvin, who's the chair of the Foundation, has spent many, many years trying to find out what happened after the palace burnt down through the Second World War, because there's really almost no information. The history of the palace seems to sort of terminate when the fire of 1936 happens. Then you see very little about it until the sort of the Sports Centre's built and it's used again. So, he has spent many years researching and put all the information together and there is a book coming out later this year, which is a bit of a heavy book with an awful lot of information that explains all the strange and secret things that went on in Crystal Palace Park during the Second World War. And I'm not allowed to tell you what they are. Oh, not even a little one. No, I'm breaking the official secrets, but you will be able to buy the book. Oh, I think it's really mean you're not telling us a little, tiny secret. The only thing I can add to that is that my mum lived in Forest Hill and she stood somewhere in her garden, I believe, and watched it burn, because you know, the views across then at that time they could actually see it. Yeah, terrible. I've noticed whenever there's a post on Facebook about the Crystal Palace people always say about their family or their family members watching it burn. And my own stepfather, who's now 91, was living in Orpinton at the time and he can remember being carried out into the garden to watch it burn in 1936. Really? But that's a long way. It's possible because there were no buildings, high-rise buildings or anything like that. So if they were high enough out, I guess. I mean, I don't do maths. Mum probably told him, I said, do you remember? And I've got no relics alive that could tell me about the burning of Crystal Palace. It is an amazing site though, isn't it? Yeah, it's just phenomenal site. What are they doing with the pool? You mean the swing pool inside the sports centre? Again, that's going to be down to the Mayor of London because that's inside the sports centre, that's outside the remake of the trust. You never know, they might put some water in it one day. Because that is, as I understood it, that is marathon length, isn't it? That is Olympic length, rather, I should say. I thought it was a world-class training facility used to be for diving. For nominal knowledge of what's going on. And of course, lucky to have Chris here as well to say, Chris very kindly gave me a copy of her two books. So if you'd like to expand on that, why people might be able to get them? Yeah, sure. So I've co-led for two books and I've written three. So five books now. I wrote my autobiography in 2013 and that's on Amazon and on the Charity website. And then I wrote a self-help book for survivors of all forms of abuse in 2016 and that is on Amazon and also on the Charity website. And I've just collaborated with Fatima Whitbred and I'm a co-author in her latest book called The Strength of Resilience. And there are some amazing stories in that book. Fatima, obviously, herself, a care lever, untold abuse as a baby. Her adopted family took her in, trained her to be the Olympian that she was. And now she's obviously paying it back through sport with care levers, children that are in care, coming out of care through sport. So she's got a campaign called Fatima's UK campaign and all of the book proceeds are going to her campaign to help care levers have a better life. So yeah, what I do really is my every breath every day I wake up and I'm just all about protecting children, young people from abuse in all its forms and exploitation. And also helping adult survivors of any form of abuse and domestic violence recover from what they've gone through because they don't deserve more harm. They deserve understanding compassion and they need to understand that what they've gone through is not their fault. And they deserve everything cut alive that everybody else has out of life. And care levers are often ones that suffer greatly because they are very vulnerable to abuse. in my ignorance. What are Care Leavers? Children that go on into the care system. Oh right. So over the years we've called them kids in care but now they're called you know Care Leavers or people that have left care. They are very vulnerable to further exploitation and abuse and the government they tend to end their duty of care to them at the age of 18 and if all they've known is a roof over the head and people have looked after them at 18 they're just pushed out into the world expected to get on with their own lives. It's crazy. It's crazy. So there are a lot of good people out there doing a lot of good things and a lot of the work that I do with everyone that comes into my sphere is we do a lot of healing in green outdoor spaces so the parks are really important to me because I do walk talk and support groups in my local area and yeah so green spaces are really important so if there's a connection with us today as guests I think that's one of them is the history of the locality and also our green spaces need to be protected. Are you on social media? Yes. Individuals or organizations or as everything I think. Yes. But don't look at the if just look at Betts Park on the internet you think and you'll find us on Facebook and Instagram and I don't know what else. I love the internet. It's great. Are you on Tik Tok Alan? I'm not. No. I am personally but not a Betts Park. I haven't put Betts Park on this yet but I'm planning on doing so very soon. Oh so what do you on Tik Tok personally? I know the scandal. You look scandal. Oh right. We need to delve into that. Like a little bit of gossip. That's one of the things I'm missed coming out and running my own business of my own in that sense is in the office is usually some sort of gossip. Always gossip. I did not do much now but I did miss it initially. This is the 1230 T W C Business Beat Radio with Jackie Grouncel on Love to Beat Radio. Hello and welcome back and we've been sorting the world out as regular listeners we all know that's where it goes. Now Alan and Amanda Ancriss in fact are all huge fonts of knowledge of various things but one of the things that we were finding in common was the importance of green spaces. I don't know I think you were going to help us with that one first of all. I just wanted to deed on what carry on from Chris's point about the importance of green spaces and outdoor areas for all of us because it's one of these things that a lot of people talk about but actually it doesn't really have any clout. I think for nearly all of us some of our best memories of life are being in the park either with the family or on our own. I can remember sitting in Betts Park one morning after I had a back operation and I couldn't walk for quite a long time about six months and I ended up one morning. My very first walk that I did was I walked to Betts Park and I sat there early in the morning one autumn and the mist was just rising and the birds started to sing and it was absolutely beautiful. I don't think any of us really realise quite how therapeutic the outside world, the fresh air and nature can be and it doesn't have to be overly complicated, it doesn't have to be centre parks or singing or dancing slides and water splashes. It can just be sat on a bench watching nature do its thing. We're everywhere is under threat at the moment for the demand to build more houses. We're particularly lucky in Betts Park that we've got an ancient deed where we've got a deed put on the park by King George V in his memory by the government that says that no one can build on King George V recreation grounds and Betts Park is luckily visited as one of those. It's really lucky. It's the only parking bronmy that has this protection. So whatever happens it can never be built on. It's always protected. It's completely. Wow, that is so good to know. It's a blessing because it means that anything we do we know is going to be there forever. No one can take it away. And so every time we come up with another project and Amanda normally rolls her eyes and goes what does it want to do now. Every time we come with another project it means that it's there for good. We're currently working on Secret Garden which I think I'm going to let Amanda tell you about that. So what it means that you can really get your teeth into it and not worry about it being dished at some stage. So yes, thank you. Over to you, Amanda. Yes, so we're currently building a community garden. We started back in March and there was like a fantastic response. People helped to clear all the litter because it used to be an old maintenance yard, about being abandoned like 40 years or so. I can't place quite where that is. I mean, I'm on Annelie Road and the canals in front of me on the right. So where is the garden going to be? It's on the far left if you were walking through the Annelie Road entrance and the far left of the park. Right. So the back of the Secret Garden, backs on to the Croydon Road. Oh, okay. So most people that lived near the park, they have no idea where this is because it is very, very secret. It heads to the name. Yeah. So that did start off all the intrigue at the beginning. This interest is now mentioned that we're going to build the Secret Garden and it got nobody knew where this was. So that lived on Annelie Road, had no clue where that proved to point really. Yeah. But that has helped us because that meant people were interested and they keep coming to the park looking for this Secret Garden and then they speak to one of us and they find out more about it. And so many people have gotten bold, with volunteering, donating money or donating like plastic chairs and things for us. It's been fantastic, the response. And really is that Secret Garden element of it that's generated all this. So when are you looking at opening for that? When's it going to be open to the couple, do you think, roughly? Well, we've actually been making super progress because of all the volunteers. So maybe autumn, the first phase, like a basic community garden, maybe ready, but we have like big plans that we're going to have a little resource centre in there, maybe solar power, energy. So it may take like a couple of years to complete the whole plan. But I think definitely by the autumn of basic phase one of the community garden will be ready. We're going to be laying there, we're going to make it fully accessible. So we're laying the paths at the moment, making sure they're safe. We're building raised beds that are high enough so people in wheelchairs can just sit in a wheelchair and can do a bit of gardening. We've just dug the pond. We're going to fill that in next month. So we're going to put a fence around it so it's safe. We're hoping that children can come, they can do a bit of pond dipping. It's not going to be a fish pond, but a frog pond. Ah, okay. A frog pond, everything. And the whole being new. Yes, yes. We're hoping they come, apparently. We thought that frog life were going to provide the frogs and things. But apparently frogs, nuts, they have a sense and they'll sense it and they'll come. So we're just sitting, yeah, we'll just sit and wait. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. That is really awesome. Because I don't go past that way that often, but I've watched how it's really sort of sunken not being as it was when I was a kid and I mentioned earlier, I used to do tree rubbings. I don't know, did children do that now? Yeah. Not unless you part brownies or something. Yeah, no, this was for school, I think, was a project when I was at senior school. It was a project that we were doing. So that is amazing. Absolutely amazing. How many volunteers do you have, do you know, a friend? I'll say about 10 or 15, like, core volunteers, but then each week, so new people come and they might not come every week, but then they come back again, like two or three weeks later, or some people come once and maybe find it a bit much, but they still support us. Like they'll donate things to us. Yeah. So people have donated, like I said, garden furniture, woods, all kinds of things. Yeah, because there's often stuff on Facebook, isn't there with free, free furniture? So I'm usually, like, fussed in there. You're there. So that'd be great for the secret garden. So anything you need at the moment, particularly? Cash. If you're giving it away, we will always take cash because we can use that in all sorts of exciting ways. I need cash as well. We need a water bowser with about 20,000 litres of water to fill the pond. Is it 20,000 litres? I can't remember. Something like that. Something really curious. So we could do with water, if you've got a bowser, a bowser's, water bowser's a lorry that carries water like a tanker, which trying to see if we can borrow one from Bromley and not let them notice that we've used a water. They're normally really quite helpful. It's just getting in touch with the right person, so we're working on that one. Where else do we need? To garden tools. If anyone wants to donate, like garden tools, any spades, like hand tools, that'd be great. Real way. There's a real way of sleep, isn't it? Oh, yeah. That would be great. I was on Facebook a couple of weeks ago and I thought, I didn't say anything to Hubby, but I thought, oh, maybe we could do some railway, see? Anyway, I was too late. I'm afraid I'll tell Jackie, I'll tell you. It was us she was going to give Cecee a message. She was going to give it to you and then I got in there I think it's time to close the show now Good I was gonna say to you. I'll keep it eye out because she said that we're gonna be some more I'm thrilled that you've got that Oh well good good home great home and but I just sort of add in as well that I met Alan and Amanda at the Penn Festival Would you remember that Saturday when it was absolutely chuckle it down the rain? And there we were all there they were a voice of feels selling plants you but Alan wasn't there but You tagged along today Let me come And I met Amanda there because I'd got strict instructions from my husband we are not buying any plants But we did so of course and they're all nicely planted there. I think lots of husbands and moaning I think they told their wives no plants and then their wife and my three or four at our store But we really did well that day good even though it was pouring rain It was windy so many people bought our plants. Yeah, and they were commenting how our cosmos how did we get them to grow? So that's all lian our gardener. She's a fantastic. I missed the cosmos. Yeah, they just went they could imagine but that's paid for the The wood and the paving stones. That's what we bought. Come free. I got from you. Did no you had come for I think you Yeah, that's right. One so I have the country that's all planted out So your money you're buying those plants you've helped us buy the paving stones that will make the pathways for the wheelchairs Oh good so we've ready bought the paving stones with the money we made that day. I was so chuckleed of hell I know what we should mention your name. I thought I was so funny Love to beat radiance Well, it's gone to a good home. You can't be losing So if you are thinking about doing a huge amount of money to get some work Try listening to my work to the christmas hospice if I'm trading it and when I first went there I was in the day center as a Temp and these envelopes came in with 50 pieces in I thought 50 pence that's so good and I was told in that uncertain terms Every little help every thing so I'm not dishing what you're saying about you need a lot of money, but whatever people can manage well We have other projects going on as well. We've got a we need to replace the entire outdoor gym The one that stands just behind the bus Because it's old. It's just doesn't work. It's not what it should be in a when we can't get the parts anymore because it's it's starting to get older They don't manufacture those anymore As soon as bromley as soon as we said that that it was no longer sustainable bromley said oh that's fine We'll come rip it out then and our response was over my dead body because it gets How well we did account last year and it gets on average a thousand uses a month of people Just coming along spending a little time and it's completely cross-generational. It's cross ethnicity. It's cross Age it's cross gender. It just seems to suit everybody. Yeah So if you've got 35,000 pound under the mattress we'll soon have that off you and then after that We're going to redo the canal because that canal is the only canal in the whole of south London There is no other bits of canal left. There's a tiny smidging left in Sydney But where to say go to and from well from one end to the other Yeah, okay, I've got your mission now I think Alan Or we've got left is 550 feet which we've got in Betts Park That's it beginning to end in the park. It doesn't go anywhere further. Right. That's nothing more originally I went from Depford to Westcroyd and if you've ever been to Westcroyd and station you've been to the end of the canal That's where they um the pool was at the end There is a tiny bit in Sydney, but Dakers would But that's been converted into a nature reserve and it's behind lock gates and you you can't get in unless you've got a Party and things like that. So we've got the only publicly accessible canal in the whole of south London And I think we should make something of it. Absolutely. We used to paddle in it as kids. Oh yeah, I wouldn't recommend it No, I'm recommending it now, but I am you know, I am getting on. Well, I was a kid. I think even in my day I don't think I'd have battled in that Yeah, so um Chris back to what we were saying earlier with Alan and Amanda saying about the importance of Greenery and the open spaces. I mean you Alan you touched on COVID earlier and never have I been so thankful for living in a house with a garden But I can't imagine how hard it must have been for people who are It must have been I remember walking up the Amelie road one day towards Amelie Hill just for the exercise And there was some people I won't say which block of flats it was But this is about two weeks into lockdown and they were screaming at each other You could hear it halfway down the street and I totally agree with what you said I'm so pleased that at least I had an outdoor space at tiny garden a public path Could you remember we in the public part we had to keep walking keep our distance not sit down not lie on the grass all those strange rules Came in I don't remember that you know selfish well only selfishly because it didn't affect me Um, so yeah, it was selfishly. Yeah, that's why it's not spring into mind immediately um, but yeah, so for me I I walked every single day during lockdown So used to meet up with people that had mental health Challenges and they needed to be out and about and enjoying the green spaces no matter what and that was allowed Thankfully and even if it wasn't I would have done it because I need it for my mental health Yes, I've got a garden, but even sitting in a garden doesn't do it for me. I have to be out walking Yeah, well exercising Yeah seeing absorbing and talking Yeah, yeah, so green spaces I think for everybody really important Yeah, I think um my brother-in-law who now lives well has for some time lived on the out of Lewis When they came first to visit us here we're just down the road just in there Um, and he was amazed how much green space we've got They originally lived in London and then he was a police officer for the met at that time and then they decided to go Right out in the countryside and sort of not talked to anybody at all rest of it So they were in Devon and then they went to the islanders um, but he I mean I think I consider We are extremely lucky in this whole area the London borough bromley is a really Great area to be involved. So where's we come? Blender borough bromley it is indeed. Yeah, so I moved to Coney Hall 30 years ago Even I still got family all around this area um, and I literally have got a park that backs onto my garden And I've got woods at the end of the garden and where what 30 minutes from London Yeah, we are really really lucky and I'm a racial counselor isn't she? I don't know. Yeah, she is. Peter Falkchoon is my MP. Oh yeah, yeah, Glaber Well, Hannah Grae's conservative. Oh, is he? Yeah Um, not Hannah Gray is also Westwickham. Yeah, conservative. Um, yeah, so We're really lucky to have all of that around us um, and I will keep you busy Yes, every day I walk So what other things are you involved in in that way, Chris? You say about you mentioned Corkscrew Hill. Oh yeah, a Beckhamians rugby club there they um, they've got access to Obviously a field um, and I teach in the rugby club And outside the rugby club when it's hot so I'll be probably teaching outside tonight when I teach fitness Do you remember the ducks on the on the Yes, and I actually put my husband's waders on and walked into that pond that it became Can you imagine it today? And it came right up to my armpits. Did it really? So even now, were you looking and you think how could the water be Where and how but he did I've got the video of me and someone put all those ducks on it didn't they? I didn't know that somebody yeah, they're about 100 ducks on it. They put like rubber ducks So every time you know the real ducks There was but that was nature taking over before that happened someone put 100 little rubber ducks on And this uh, fluddy to Field so it was quite funny. Yeah, quite funny. Yeah, but we are lucky um, and I got some funding from WCGL which is walking and cycling groups Um, and that is how I'm able to run This is my third year running my walk talk support groups in and around haze Konni Hall um, westwick come area Which is really brilliant for me and I used to I would used to work at the psychiatric hospital in haze as well And as the fitness therapist there, I would take the impatience out To the local area for the green space So I sat in haze I can't play so fiery Oh yeah Yeah, yeah, no because we're not that far from Bethlehem. Yes, okay. Yeah Yeah, yeah, I was allowed I did IT training. It's amazing, isn't it? Absolutely, I did IT training in there with the staff and was absolutely amazing. I mean you know it's huge but it's mammoth in that. And of course they've got, is it classified as a museum or an art gallery there? There's an art gallery there. Yeah, but anyone can walk around Befflem as well. The hospital grounds so it's all really nice. Yeah we have got a sports centre. Yeah they have got a little gym here, taught there. So you're really not all these things that you're teaching and everything else. And that's a lot. Yeah, Fitnys is part of who I am and what I do. It was part of my recovery. So when you can do it out in the green spaces, when the weather's lovely, then why wouldn't you? But there are so many people that just don't get out. For whatever reason they're in prisons, I'm going to say that in their minds or in their environment in at home. And yet if you just get out and about and just see and feel and just be, it can change your whole mental health. So I'm an advocate for it, 100%. Yeah, brilliant. So what have you got on this week? I teach ten classes a week and I, what have we got on? All different things but you can find me on social media. But I'm also, I write blogs, I'm like Amanda. I do a lot of writing. I write policy papers around child sex degrees and exploitation around the impacts and around what needs to change and who needs to be held to account over it all. Yeah, that's very much the point. Yeah, yeah, it's the accountability. So in general, who is accountable? It should be accountable. All the statutory services that fail our children and young people and also society for closing down the conversation around child sexual abuse. Because until we normalise that it exists and how prevalent it is and that we've got children and young people growing up with it and we've got a lot of adults living with the impact, then we're shutting down everybody's ability to be able to speak about it. And get the help and early interventions that they need. So as a society, we owe it to children and young people to just acknowledge that it exists across all ethnicities, all backgrounds and that if it happens, us adults shouldn't be bystanders. We should be upstanders and we should challenge the state as quiet around all of it. And if we hear anything, see anything, we should act. That is so crucial. I was just thinking about a friend of mine who was being physically and mentally abused and I gave her an extra neighbour my card with all my details on it and I said, you know, anything, just anything, let me know. And on the day that she actually left, my friend left that house, social services took her and her child out of that house. I bumped into that neighbour and she said, oh, the terrible sounds coming from that house. I said, why didn't you tell me? You just told me around and went back in. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think we just got to be upstanders and not bystanders and that's all I'm going to say on that because I get quite angry about it all. It's okay. I suppose it's hard. People don't want to get involved, do they? But they don't actually appreciate the severity of it, I guess. And don't want to get involved. I'd rather be wrong about somebody. I'm potentially protected a child or a young person or an adult, a vulnerable adult. Yeah, I'd rather be wrong. They're not saying anything because the earlier the intervention you can have in someone's life, the better they're odds of a normal life after the event. 12.30 T.W.C. Business Beat Radio. Monday's 2-till-4pm UK time, tips, inspiration, fun, tunes, four and from business women on all the socials, www.1230.co.uk at LoveDeBeatRadio. Okay, so welcome back and as always we get caught mid-conversation. We suffer this going on. I do look forward very much to welcoming you all back into the studio at some point. Live show being recorded and will be available for everybody who wants to remind themselves of the snippets of gems that have been given out today will be available on the podcast next Thursday on the 12.30 website which is all the W's 1-2-3-0.co.uk. And amazingly on the main navigation bar it says podcast and you just click that and there they all are. But it's also on major podcast platforms as well and may stand a chance of being glass from the past. Who knows? Chris, please remind me about your books. I think people will really zone in on and also we've got an event coming up and Chris is very kindly donated to two of her books for that event. So the autobiographies called Through the Eyes of a Child and it, if you read it, you will find out about Penge and Crystal Palace because I reference it all throughout the book. Did you speak to Alan first? No, I didn't speak to Alan first. I didn't know I had to get permission. Sorry, Alan. If I'd known you back in 2013 when I published it, I would have done that. Yeah, and then breaking the cycle is the self-help book and then I wrote a parenting without Tears book for survivors who become parents to break the cycle so we don't pass inadvertently pass on trauma to the next generation because there is a lot of intergenerational impact. And then I've co-authored two books and the latest one is The Strength of Resilience with Fatima Wittbred. And I want that one to do particularly well so we help the care levers and Fatima's UK campaign. That means a lot to me. The Fatima sort of ringing her bell is she a local person? I can just kind of think she's not too far out is she? She's not too far out now but she's the Olympian, Med Gold Medalist, juggling brother. Yeah, yeah, no, no, amazing person. She is a lovely person, yeah. Yeah, no, thank you for that. So, Alan and Abanda, what are you going to tell us? What's coming up next for you guys? You're working on the secret garden. Now I'm going to horse again. This is hate, sorry. Excuse me, thank you for the frog. Alan, talking about frogs. You just say the frog will find its way home. Exactly, talking about frogs. You just don't talk about the wildlife that you actually are getting. Well, apart from escape pets, we were talking in the break here that there's two terrapins in the canal and that we're trying to re-wild the canal and we've got funding for water lilies or so on. But these two little terrapins, they're like an expensive lunch, so we spend about 150 pounds. We've got the funding for it. We put the water lilies in the canal and then the next day they'd munched it all. All our hard work. The water was quite cold that day and our treasure had gone in and he was planted in and then the next day they were gone. I'm too satisfied looking at terrapins. I was sitting on the bike. That's a very difficult one, isn't it? So if anybody wants a pair of terrapins, they're free to collect at any time from three feet of water in the muddy canal in Betts Park. Tell us, I don't think you made it live in terms of the canal. Did you or was that our conversation where you were saying about it? See any canal? I can't remember whether we were live or not. See I don't know how far I got. It's the only canal in South London and we're really lucky to have it in Alley Penge in this part of Bromley if you want to call it that. We actually in my mind could do with some kind of heritage celebration. I'd like to see and it's going to be a major project that I'd like to see the canal celebrated for what it is and recognising all the people that worked on it that will have passed through and it was had a big impact on Penge common when it was first dug back in 18 or DIA, 1820 something I think it was because it sliced the common in half and stopped the rainwater from reaching the river at the bottom which was the Wilmore I think it's called. It was the old boundary between Surrey and Kent. The old boundary river that used to run along down where Marlowe Road is now started to run out of water because all the water was being stopped by the canal and so all the the commoners of Penge who lived down in the common people. The really common people who were the genuine commoners who lived down in Penge started to run out of water because it was all being stopped by the canal. Nowadays of course it stopped by the railway and it all puddles up under either Bergpig Bridge or under the bridge on the high street because the railways going across but in those days it didn't puddle up anywhere it just got lost in the canal. So that was almost the first nail in the coffin of the end of Penge common when the canal was cut through. That is amazing. Another bit of use is information that you'll never remember. I might but what we will remember is you are the founding of knowledge so we need to go and remember anything we go oh we know the person and generally people who know me will absolutely agree that if I don't know the answer to something I will make it up. So how much today is made up and how much is genuine? I can guarantee that most of it is probably true. Good. Did you like that? You can guarantee that most of it is probably true. I love it. I love it. So hey, Jackie, is the he. Do you think so? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Right so conscious of the time I want to make sure that you've all said what you need to let our listeners know is there anything that you're itching to tell us? Amanda. We said earlier that next year it's going to be the Vicentinu Analy and I'm putting together a calendar with all like past and present pictures of Analy so if anyone can email me at Betz Park at gmail.com any old photos or any nice modern day photos for Analy. In fact the nice modern day seems to be the harder one. I mean nobody has come back to me with any modern day photos for Analy because I'd really like to have a photo in the photo of it how it used to look and how that area looks today. Do you part of the Analy group where he shares photos? Is that the Facebook, the nostalgia group? Yes. Yes. Yes. Alan runs that gift. That's where I know you from. Guilty, sorry. All the secrets that come in out today. Yeah, those pictures are lovely. We are always common. My brothers and I are common. That's great. Oh, you must have. Yeah. Yeah. I just I don't know why it's coming to my mind. Other policemen still in the police flats in Analy or they gone? No. No. I lived at 85 Analy Road when the police flats wore police flats and behind that there was a reform school. Yes. And they're formed. Well they're there but it's just not for that person or. No. No. Well there was with the school where I was saying to you about where I went to senior school on the right hand side as you walk down the drive of the schools on the left on the right hand side it was locally known as the old men's home. Originally. And then that became I think some sort of reform school for the children. Yeah. That was the originally it was called this I think the Surrey Industrial Schools and then later on it became for a short time it was Analy House which was an old men's home. I don't know why they took the name Analy House because that confuses everything. And then behind that was the deaf and dumb school. That was a bit further up but against all long gone now. Yeah. And you've got is it Worcester Close and Apple Yard I think it is Apple Yard built on there. And I did just remember the first housing Analy was built on what's now Chartwell Way which is just off of Jasmine Grove. Oh that doesn't really mean it built with me at all. I wonder why. I was Jasmine Grove I remember I had a friend Maple Road end and as she walked down from Analy down the end there she was in one of the last houses and she had this lovely veranda with all sort of iron work over it and she used to sit there with her mum sipping tea and whatever but it was the most beautiful veranda there. It really was lovely. Can I just push out for my charity if that's okay? Absolutely it is. And for all of you yeah. So we've just celebrated our 10th fun anniversary and we're always looking for volunteers like Alan and every charity out there obviously funding but mainly people who can donate their time and their expertise if they don't have pound notes to contribute because volunteers really other lifeblood aren't they? Absolutely. Anything done and to move anything forward. So if anyone out there listening feels that they have the skill set who may be become a trustee, chair of trustee, fundraiser for the charity please get in touch. Love to hear from you. And how do they do that again? Chris at SurvivorsOfAbuse.org.uk is my email. Chris at SurvivorsOfAbuse.org.uk or via the website which is SurvivorsOfAbuse. Excellent thank you. Is there anything you'd like to add to contacts and please? Yeah we're always looking for volunteers so have a look at our website www.betspart.com and if you look at the project section you can see the latest projects, there's a secret garden, the canal, the gym and also you'll see there if you want to donate money you'll see how to do it on that page so take a look at our website. And I'm just going to say if you do want to laugh, Google the Obelisk in Best Park and just see what the original newspapers reactions to I can't say the words on radio but just Google the Obelisk in Best Park and see what you can come up with in terms of daily mirror and sun stories for when that was first erected. And if anybody's interested in becoming or joining their local friends, friends of the park, a group they have them all over Bromley, all over Croydon, all over the neighboring boroughs, just go to the borough website and with Bromley I just know that it's Bromley Parks.co.uk but I'm sure there'll be a similar one to where you are and they all operate very slightly differently but what we do and I'm sure most of them do is say that volunteers are coming to do whatever they want to do if that be litter picking then do litter picking if it be shrub chopping then shrub chop yourself to death. If it's digging a hole that's fine if it's waiting in the canal up to your neck in dirty water you're very welcome. Now that was a bit of a dig there Alan I think. Did you have a little bit of a dig at Chris? Wading in the canal and I was a child. No I mean having worked with the charity I do know how vital all volunteers are and no matter how much time or how little time people can give it's absolutely crucial. I think it just remains for me to thank you all so much for contributing to an amazing show today. Chris Tark, Amanda Wright and Alan Pottinger. Amanda and Alan both from Betts Park, Friends of Betts Park and Chris from Sviver's. It's been an amazing show I've learned so much from all of you. It's really really been wonderful. Thank you. Thank you listeners as well for being there and taking part. And Janet if you're still there thank you for listening to. Big up Janet. Janet Vincent and Robbie and let me know some dates when you guys can come back on. So thank you everybody for being here. Next Monday I'll be here to tool four with some more amazing guests for you all to listen in too. Chris over there in the corridor I don't know what he's doing today just waving and saying everything's all right. So anything you want to add before we go into Tina Turner simply the best because Love the Beat Radio is simply the best station and Mondays of the best. And simply simply the Betts. Oh very good I like that. And we're simply the best guests. Okay, okay cool, I love it. Well done. Well actually that's what we've been talking about behind the scenes what can we do together. You can bring a shuffle. Oh right. I could do that. We could do that because it's actually probably more valuable than most things. Yeah, that's interesting isn't it because it makes people feel welcome I guess. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. That's great. So thank you very much. Thank you Jackie. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So we are finishing up with Tina Turner as we usually do simply the best as I mentioned. Love the Beat Radio is simply the best radio. 24/7 is simply the best shows that you can actually have on here but we like to think Mondays are the best. Do stay tuned for Aussie, 4/6 with his Indy Rock Jam and I'm moved from here now just to play Tina Turner simply the best. Take care everybody be cugs. This is the 1230 TWC Business Beat Radio with Jackie Groundsel on Love the Beat Radio.