Maisie Peters

With painters, they just get to paint, with songwriters, we tell stories, and people want to know where that story comes from. It's funny. I was writing yesterday, and I was in the studio, and somebody asked me that I was writing with, "What does your boyfriend think about the songs that you make about, we were writing a song about an ex, I guess?" What does he think about this? And I was like, "Well, obviously, he supports me, and wants me to buy my house in Tuscany, so it's just keen for however that happens." But also, I was sort of making the point that I think he knows he's watched me create enough to know that, and I kind of likened it to, and I'm writing a song, I'm just writing a tiny book. I like the record. Thank you so much. I have to say, I'm a fan of your band. Oh, really? I, when I was maybe starting out, you know, when you become a conscious person, when you're like, maybe 12 or 13, and you actually start seeking things out, yeah, somewhere in like 12 to 14, depending on, or 12 to 13, 14, 15, is when like the light comes on you, you go like, "Oh, I can choose." And you can be an individual person, and you realize that musically you listen to makes you an individual person. Yeah. So, I became an individual person with like, Green Day, All Time Low, Gachala, my chemical romance. I actually sent my dad out to get me my first CD that I sent him to get me, and I said, "I want a my chemical romance CD," and he came back with a My Dying Bride CD, and I wasn't to know, and I didn't tell him. So, that was just sort of me for a bit. Me with my My Dying Bride CD, just like, cool. Also, like, going between My Dying Bride and then switching to the breakaway Kelly Clarkson, and then going back to My Dying Bride, when someone cool was coming around. But yeah, Gachala was really in that world of things I was supposed to become a conscious human being, so. That's really nice. That's so much. That's very nice. Do you were a little bit of an emo kid? Yeah, some could say I had a strong fringe, some could say I had a strong fringe coming from the side of my head. And I had a passion. So did I. You know, though, I think I had a passion for lyrics really early on, and actually, yourself on all of those bands. I mean, especially, like, full up boy, my chemical romance, the lyricism of those bands, and that music is so. specific and excellent. Yeah. And I think, to be honest, that was what I was mostly drawn to, probably, when I look at it now. But like, welcome to the Black Parade, that was really on my iPod shuffle in a big way. Such a good song. Such a good album, such a good song. It was actually YouTube to MP3 Converter. Oh. That was actually how sorry, Gerard, wait, I don't think he needs my money. At the time, that's what you did. That's what I was, yeah, exactly. It was the YouTube to MP3 Converter. And so you'd have, like, the 10-minute version of Welcome to the Black Parade. Yeah. That era of music, there was so much drama in the stories and in the. There was a lot of freedom in that. You could be so dramatic and so over the top with the lyrics. And they were, especially my chemical romance, fall out boy. There's a few others that I would say. I was just listening to an album just yesterday. I don't know how it came back to my consciousness, but I was like, "I haven't listened to this band in a decade, maybe." And this one album, the band is called The Faint. And the album is called Wet from Birth. And I would highly suggest you go listen to the album. That could be good for me. I feel like I could get into Wet from Birth. It was, it's such a good album. And the lyrics are so dramatic. You forget that, like, the drama in the lyrics. And the freedom to be, you know, so specifically emotional and over the top is really nice feeling to be able to listen to music like that. I also think another thing that those bands and that music does so well is that you'll often, the songs are written so outside of somebody's perspective. It's so fun, the way that it's so narrative-based. It's all these sort of very dramatic. Often, like, I assume fictionalized sort of other worlds that was just so easy and normalized for everyone to just be stepping into. That, obviously, that big panic that this goes on about being. What is it? It's like running away from the altar or something. You know the one I'm talking to? Like, God damn, God. Yeah, like. I write Sends Not Tragedy. Yeah, so dramatic. And it's so outside of normal life. And everyone was just fine with that. We could all just. Everyone just allowed themselves to be transported to other places and sing these songs, which was so outside of obviously the experiences that these people were actually having. I assume. And I feel like nowadays, that would be way more outlandish to go into a writing day with someone to be like, "Should we write a song about having a horror at your wedding?" I mean, maybe I'll try that today to be fair. We'll see what they say. Well, I think you're right. I think it's the modern way, the reality that we're like, that we have to share. So we have to share. Like, that's kind of the modern way. It's like, no, we have to show people our real life. If we don't, we're not. We're not participating. We're not doing it right. We're not. Totally. And then it's in our nature to want to present well, right? It's normal. Like, I'm not going to show you my panic attack. I'm going to show you what, like, I'm doing right, so that hopefully you like me. And then hopefully, like, I can just either one stay in line with, like, nothing to see over here, or even better, everybody's coming. They like what I'm doing. Instead of just, like, not you not knowing me personally, and then me putting my art out. And that's how you know me. And I can say whatever comes out of my head and I don't have to explain it because, you know, and also pre-social media, like, right where you're talking about the era of the emo and all that kind of stuff, the era we got to be in. And you can say, there's good and bad to always, like, and there's truth and not to everything, like, somewhere in the middle, there's always going to be. Was it better then or is it better now? It's probably both. But I think that was the last era before it all changed. And then you're kind of living and dying by the rules of, you know, not completely, but subconsciously conscious of it always, I think. Yeah, and I think pre-social media, yeah, I'm agreeing with you essentially, but music was absorbed in a way that was kind of separate to the person, and it wasn't really as important. I mean, there were, like, rock stars and pop stars, but nowadays, yeah, you released a song, and it's so apparent and obvious, you are taken straight to the person. So it's the song true and honest, then it's true and honest about the person saying, they're very linked in a way. Maybe it wasn't as linked before, music could kind of exist outside of the individual person. And now it's probably why it was easier to be speaking and fiction and fact, and like weaving them together in a different way than you would do nowadays. Where if I sang something, I think, to be honest, especially as a woman, that you sing something and everybody absolutely takes it at face value that it is about yourself, which is happening to be all the time. And often it is just the way that I write right now, but even if it wasn't, I think it's just the assumed that you're an individual person and your music reflects your individual person, yeah. And I think we're just kind of examining it, and maybe unpacking it a little bit. I don't pass judgment on is now better, was then better. Like there's nostalgia, which is nice. But if we go back, there's problems as well. There's things that weren't good. There's things that were better. And you could come to now and there's things that are better. And there's things that aren't good. So you could find good and bad with any time. But it's like, I think examining it is talking about it and just analyzing it is always interesting. Because I do think we can break out of things that we're not until we're aware we were put in that box. We don't know we're in that box. And by talking about it and we go, "Oh, I have to do it that way always." And then also for people listening to hear you talk about, "Hey, some of these songs might not actually be about me." Or some of them might just be an idea about me. Some of them might be something that I was thinking about. And some of them might actually be what I'm living in breathing right now. Which is like bare. With painters, they just get to paint. With songwriters, we tell stories and people want to know where that story comes from. It's funny. I was writing yesterday and I was in the studio and somebody asked me that I was writing with what does your boyfriend think about the songs that you make about we were writing a song about an ex, I guess. What does he think about this? And I was like, "Well, obviously he supports me and wants me to buy my house on dusk and east, so it's just keen for however that happens." But also, I was sort of making the point that I think he knows he's watched me create enough to know that, and I kind of likened it to, and I'm writing a song, I'm just writing a tiny book. And yes, I'm drawing upon my own experiences and my past, but in a way where I've kind of narrowed rise the whole thing. And I'm able to sort of look backwards and twist it and turn it in a way that I feel like I want to that day. And pluck moments out and then put them down again and look at it a different day and take a different side of that moment. You know, I think it's at least that's the way I'm at right music. It is. very much, and that way I'm using my own lived experiences a lot of the time, but I'm not telling it 100% truth necessarily. I'm just telling a truth or my version of that truth, or I'm looking at what it could have been from some other perspective, but it's just like writing little books to me. And so, yeah, you're never writing, nobody's writing lots of books from the same exact perspective. No author is doing that in the world. And yeah, I thought that was interesting. Do you like books? I do. Do you read a lot? Do you like books? Music, writing, painting, I just love all of it. My brother paints, big time painter. That's cool. That's cool. I feel like that would take a lot of what's the word for? I feel like I would feel so much imposter syndrome, even though I know that it's just creating and you can anybody can paint, you know, it's anybody can pick up a paintbrush and make something that needs to be no standard for what you make, but I would be scared to paint. Really? Yeah, not in the deep way. And yet you write songs. I know. It's like that's an art form that like is not for me. No, interesting. So I think I should, now I'm saying that I'll have it, like I think I should probably get a watercolor set and just go crazy. What is your brother paint with? He paints with oil, but he does everything. He draws and he's got like really cool artwork and has gotten some really cool experiences, painting with really cool people. And he was in London and he got to work out of Damien, her studio. And he's like, and yet he's never sold a painting. He's literally just a painter. He paints, he paints for himself. And he's got all these paintings and he made every once in a while, he'll like give one away to someone or something, but it's really interesting. Like he's not, there's no commercial aspect of his painting, which I think is interesting because we're like such entrepreneurial, like business, he kind of guys when it comes to stuff, but with painting, he just paints. It's really cool. I really like it. But I think you should paint. I should paint because you know how many people would say like, I can't write a song. I'm terrified. And you'd be like, that's a sprite one. Fucking cares. Yeah. Oh, 100%. No, I'm, no, I've learned that I didn't really know this about myself until I said it right now, but now I'm going to look into that. I think also think about it now when we were at school, my sister was like the artist. She was the one that was doing art. And so potentially maybe that's some sort of deep repressed. Yeah, like some message. Childhood feeling that I have that I can now, but now she is a corporate queen and she uses things like Slack, so I can probably lean into the art more. Yeah. Like she's got her thing now. Imagine setting your makeup then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Delta mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue, just plump, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavily. So she started an art and ended up in like more of a structure. Yes, she works. She works in a corporate job doing events. Oh wow. But she's also a really good cook. So she actually still is very creative in some ways. She's very creative in the kitchen. That's what I call it when she ruins my kitchen. We live together. Oh, you live together with our boyfriends as well. Wait, your boyfriend's all four of you. That's cool. It is cool. Yes, I do consider it. What do we call it? What's the appropriate way to say this? It's definitely a matriarchy that I am at the top and then my sister is below me. And then I guess my boyfriend sort of fight it out of the bottom for the scraps that come. But she's great. Yes, she's great. But she's so we live together and she cooks and when she's being, she's really cooked in a very explosive way. I say that was very creative, Ellen. Maybe we could feel a bit less creative next time. Yeah, because she makes a mess. But it's good. But it's so good. Yeah. This is the thing. This is the double-edged sword. It is delicious. But she's messy. But she's messy. Yeah. And without her, I eat like five mini eggs of a lentil. So I need to keep her around for that purpose. But yeah, one day, my services will be clean all the time. And that's something I think about if I'm going to be honest. 25 is thinking about your services a little bit more than you did. 24. Are you 25? Yes. It's a great age. Thank you. It's a great age. Well, so far. Yeah. It is. It's a really good. You must be 25 years. Me? Yes. I am 22 years older than you. I'm going to go for 22. No, I know that's not true. I'm 47. I'm 47. Are you a twin or have I made that up? You know I'm a twin too. Is that your sister? Are you guys identical? No. Okay. We are. You are. And the older we get, the more we look alike. Interesting. I mean, people must ask you lots of annoying questions a lot. Do people ask you if you guys are telepathic? Yeah. Yeah. We are. You are. You say that you are. We are. Now expand on that. Not that I don't believe you. I don't. But expand upon that. It's not like the telepathic in the sense of what maybe you see on TV that's kind of dramatized. Like horse, horse. Right. But we've been together our whole life. We're as close I think as it's to people could be. Yeah. We talk all day, every day. We text all day. I've always been like that. Always been like that. Even work as you obviously have earned band together. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And there's never been a period of your life where you've not been close. You've not spoken every day. No. Wow. That's impressive. I'd say we're like two parts of a whole. And there's strengths he has that I don't and strengths I have that he doesn't. We are in sync together in a way that is only two people who have lived their whole life together could be. And we can kind of communicate without talking. We can just give each other a look. Do you use that for good or evil? I would say that we use it naturally. Whether it's for our benefit or not. I'd say it's just kind of like breathing. That's nice. Yeah. Do you write together? We do. That must be useful when when making music together. Sometimes and sometimes we'll start something I'll be getting in his way or who'll be getting in my way and we we know how to go. Hey, hey, hey, get out of the way. I'm on something. Let me finish it. Yeah. And then I'll finish the idea and then he'll go in and it'll actually make it better. If so learning how to communicate in and without emotion so that we're not I think with art it can be emotional and you can be what's the word I could be self-conscious. I can be insecure. And so if I'm in a safe space when I'm making things with people I can try things without going like is this okay and with him it's easy to do that. It's funny because sometimes I think it's easier to try things and be like vulnerable and nervous and put yourself out there when it's people that you're not that close to because they'd have no knowledge of what it would mean for you to say something does that make sense which is the opposite, very opposite of working with your twin brother. So I mean there's I also disagree with that sentence at the same time like I've done both but I can't imagine making music with a family member. Really? Yeah, definitely not. It's my favorite thing. Yeah, I feel like if it's if it's good it's amazing. Yeah, learning how to communicate with family is something that takes practice. There's a big bag of mixed things I think with all family. I think people don't give that enough credit. I think we're supposed to like everyone obviously I think we try to present our families to you know outwardly to people is like oh we're all everything's great. And like the truth of the matter is is there stuff with family and you're supposed to work it out and that's like it takes practice. It takes I always talked to especially artists because we work with a lot of artists and artists that are siblings. I find have a lot of unresolved stuff and they need to work on people and back like siblings and bands. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like like great examples. It's easy to look across music and across time and find examples of that. Yeah, cool. Like the most declaring example from the UK would be Oasis. The brothers, right? I love them so much. I grew up on them and I'm a biggest fan and they have unresolved things and they it feels to me that they've never given that a credit even though that that probably does lend itself to some amazing art at the same time. I think the personal development and personal growth and the the joy you can get out of life when you do resolve family stuff is really great. There are beautifully. It's really great. And I feel like sometimes I see them and I go I wish I wish they could work out their stuff so they could enjoy the fruits of their life and their work together on another level. Because in our 20s we did fight a lot. We didn't know how to communicate and it would come to it actually got physical a few times. Like we got into fist fights and things back when we were I mean your age. Who won? He did. He's very power. But through work we learn how to talk and we learn how to say how we feel and we learn how to see each other and hear each other and it took us to another level work wise but also just personally I think we became a stronger team. Yeah, I mean and you guys work so closely together I feel like that was it's great that you did that but that also would have had to happen. that's for you to keep walking the way that you do. - Yeah, or we would have just destroyed it. - Yeah, that's really cool. - But I think that's a thing. Like I think with family, we have to identify it and go, hey, we have some stuff. Let's try and go in the direction where we work on it and then let that happen over time, whether it takes a decade or it takes five years, it takes time. It will actually happen if you just identify it and go like, I don't know how, but we got some stuff. Let's just try and like make room for this to develop and then it starts to kind of, you know what I mean? - This is useful because as an English person, we're obviously very repressed in the nation. And so it's interesting to hear about unrepressed things you can do, like. - Yes. - Yeah, these are some things that did not involve repression. So I will be, I am absorbing this and think about how I can apply it to my own repress life. - It is possible for the English. It is possible for us guys, where's the camera? It is possible. - To unrepress yourselves. - It's unrepressed ourselves here at Artists Friendly. - Yes. - It's your matter. It's sort of a different episode, I suppose. - It is a different episode. They all weave together. But you're at a great age because you can really live this life you're living. It's like, it's really, truly like your music life is something that you can be all in on and really live it. And this is, you're in the thick of building what will be your legacy is right now. Which is a really cool sort of debate. - What a thought. - What a thought, a legacy. - You will have one. - Let's hope so. - Yeah, well you will. - Thank you so much. - You're a great artist. - Thank you. - You are, the new record I was very struck by. - Oh, thank you so much. - And I was thinking about it in which it's interesting for you to say your boyfriend. 'Cause I was like, are we in love or are we out of love? I can't tell 'cause the songs go in and out of love. So it's really interesting. - It's the people on the toes and him included. Yeah, no, I am, I am in, I am in right now. But I feel like I would find it very difficult to write a wholly happy album. I think most, again, I'm gonna talk about this a lot with artist friends recently about how happy music is so kind of challenging to write. And also I'm sure you agree when you put out an album and then you promote it, say, and then you tour it and that whole thing is gonna take you two years. Feel like from the little things I've learned over the small time I've been doing it, it's nice to give yourself a real breadth of emotion and feeling across an album so that no matter what point you are in your life in those two years, like something different to cling to or if you resonate with one song at one point, you give yourself the opportunity almost to resonate with something else later sort of hedging your bets, I suppose. But yeah, so I am in love, but I guess yeah, maybe I'm too English to just be like wholly happy for a whole 45 minutes. - Yeah, by the way, I love the record for that reason. I love the ride you're on with it. Feels like some of the songs, it felt to me like their songs and almost like how you got there. Like the songs are telling this whole album, there's some stories of like how did you get here and it might be from some heartbreak and some loss and some pain, but then there's moments where I felt really, when I was listening to the album, I felt like I was in love. - Oh, you are in love. - I am. - You are, yeah. - Yeah, but it reminded me in a really nice way because sometimes I think we forget, but we take it for granted when we love someone and we're loved by them, I think we take it for granted sometimes. And I think there's moments on your record that really hit me. - That's so nice. - Maybe you want to be in love. - How long have you been with your wife? - It'll be 20 years in December. - That is a long time, haven't you guys meet? - We met through a friend. - Wow, that's nice. - Yeah, we were kind of set up. - Yeah, you must have been in your early 20s when you got set up. - Yeah, I was like 20, yeah, 20, seven, seven. - And you guys have been together the whole rest of that time, yeah? - Yeah. - Wow, that's so cool. It's so cool that you've lived so much of your life with one person. - More with her, yeah. - Then also with your brother, you've really had a partner in life, your whole life. - I know about partnerships, for sure. - That's very lucky. - I do think that when you have a twin, it predisposes you to being a partner. - A partner, yeah. - More easily? - Yeah. - 'Cause you share everything, you know? - Yeah. - And I think that I was always a relationship person. So I think that's how I think of life. - Do you think you're a comparative person? - What's comparative? - I'm just thinking about you being a twin and how it does definitely predispose you to being wanting partnership, but also growing up with somebody else over alongside you for your whole life. I guess can breed comparison because there is this person that is your double living exactly the same time, hitting exactly the same milestone as you. And it's easy, it's also just an easy thing for people to do is to compare you because you are. You know what I mean? A and B have the same thing. And so, and I think my sister definitely struggled with that when we were younger. And now she's much more of, she's got her own life and her own world and she doesn't as much anymore. And to be fair, so have I definitely when we were younger and you're living at the exact same age, but you're so different in the way you are living. So it's going to ask if you feel like you compare yourself to him or to others. If that, if you feel like that relationship has made you more comparative, more easily able to compare. - I totally understand what you're saying. I would say that more of like a share, we share everything. And that is, I think with everything comes good and bad, with all strength comes weakness. So there's another side to every coin, you know? And I think that that's a good, I've never had to think about that. I don't think we compare ourselves. I think we share everything so that which can be a problem because I think we just kind of don't see each other separate. So I have something great for you. - You're not compared to how you are kind of want. So there is no, yeah, you are like two halves of want or sort of. - I guess you also been in the band together. So what are you going to compare? You are in this, you are it. So the same. - All together. - Yeah, that is interesting. Do you guys live near each other? - We do. We did live on the same street for many years. And then they moved to Santa Barbara. And then we were pretty far apart for like a couple, for like two yearsish. And then it was too far for us. So we moved halfway. So we're now an hour or less from them and an hour from here because we were all in LA. So then we moved up north about 45 minutes to an hour. And then another 45 minutes to an hour is where they are. So we're now like close. But we traditionally I've always lived on the same street. Like three times in our life we've lived on the same street. So we're very close. - I like that. I would like to live on the same street as my sister. I mean, right now she's the room next door. Which you know might reach its natural conclusion at some point. But then yeah, was she jokes that she wants to like live in the flat below our flat. But I will have to provide that for her. Which at this point in my career now might be a challenge to buy the whole block of flats. - Yeah, well you know that. - But you know, you never know me in my legacy. - Yes. - To come through. - Anything you think. - Crazy things have happened. - I don't even think it's crazy. - Okay, that's good to know. - I just think you can take that on board. - I think we become what we think about. - Oh, okay. - So whatever we think about long enough, we start moving in that direction and then one day we kind of go, yeah, I kind of always thought about this. Now look at it, you know. - What did you think about that you feel you've become? - Happy. - It's nice. - Yeah, I wasn't happy for a long time. And then I was thinking, one day I'm gonna be happy. Healthy. Which I always wanted to be. Which I didn't know how. I was like, how do you live a life where you're just healthy? - Sort of just incrementally, subconsciously, is it? - Start heading there. Married was the thing I thought about. I was like, I think I wanted to be married and I wanted, I always wanted to be married and like have kids and then have like a family. So like, didn't that happen? - Can I ask you something? They don't have to tell me. What was your first dance song at your wedding? - First, oh, the first dance at our wedding was, it's a wonderful world. - I think to myself, that's a great song. I just really like knowing that from musicians who get married, I feel like it's like a big, what do people call it, needle drop? It's like a big, real time needle drop of your own life. So I feel the choice is just cool to hear about. - Yeah, I don't know why we chose that song. We just really liked it. We always listened to certain songs together and that's always been one that we both really enjoy. - No, I think that's a great choice. - Yeah. - Only enough of you know it's such a massive song. I've never heard that from anybody else. - Yeah, weird. It's a good question. What would yours be? - My instinct is always to give you a joke and I'm like, really? - You could joke. - No, I need, I actually, it's good for me to do something since I know it's a good challenge for myself. - Be sincere. - Let's be, let's be sincere. Let's do it. Like literally it's coming out my mouth. I'm going like, I saw the Richard Payne but I'm going, be serious. - Panic at the disco. right sins not tragedy is the entire 10 minutes of I'm not okay. No, okay. Let's just think about something serious. What would my first non-song be? Well, actually, I do have an answer for this. That is serious, huge for me. I love the Billy Joel song. She's always a woman. Oh, yeah. I think it's just the best love song of all time. Yes. But I went sort of listening from close to inspection. Like I know that it's a love song. Like I feel it and hear it as a love song because I feel like it's a song. I hear that song and I think like Billy Joel knows this person the most anyone has known anyone. I feel like I hear the song and I feel like it's such a true understanding of somebody else, which to me is like a perfect love song. But hey, I don't know if it super is a love song. B, I actually did some research and I found out that the person that he wrote it about, they got like quite an ugly divorce that she hates the song. Yeah. And it rings about up there, you know, I think about that. And I think maybe that sort of an ominous vibe to bring to the function. If anyone else knows that story. So I don't know. That's what I that's sort of what I always think about. But we'll see what happens by that time. It's it's some way away. So there's time for someone else. Well, here's the wonderful thing about art. Your interpretation of the song redeems it. You know, and regardless of the mistakes or whatever. And that's what I think the cool thing about art is is we we all own it in a different way. So you see a painting and you put it on your wall. And I see it differently. And that's the amazing thing about writing songs. Seems like you're a real fan of songwriting. I am. Yes. I can tell in your work. Thank you. You're a very good songwriter. Oh, thank you very much. No lost art form. Do you think? Yes. Oh, maybe. How do you write songs? How do I write songs? I sort of intend to. But do you have do you sit with a guitar or a piano or a you just go? Yeah, I probably sit with an instrument. It depends if I'm on my own or from with other people. I do both. If I'm by myself, then I'll sit with probably a guitar. And I'll probably know what I want to make. Like I'll know the song that I want to make by myself. It's quite rare that I just sit and play and see what happens sort of know the story that I want to tell. But if I'm with other people, I might come in with something I really want to say. Or often I won't really know what I want to say. I'll just come in and sit down and play and something will take shape. But I do feel like I'm definitely somebody who I don't know if maybe this is everybody. But I make a song because I decide I'm going to and then I make one. And you finish it. And I finish it. Yeah. I all of my songs. I mean on this on this album, I make songs in a day and then the song is done. And I'm never I'm like really, really going to go back and change the actual song. I'll change the production in the world around it. But I'll so rarely rewrite something because I write a lot of songs. So I'll just write a different one. I think if I have something else I want to say or something. But I don't know the first version of the song is sort of always the one that I stick with. But I don't know. I've worked with Marcus Mumford from Mumford and Sons in the last couple years. Yeah, legend. And it was so interesting working with him. We did a week together here in LA. And I think we did two songs. And I was really nervous at the end of the week because I was like, Oh, I don't think we did enough. I was very slow week. That was that was sort of unproductive by my standards. Two songs? Yeah. That's very good week. Well, I sort of said that to him the next week. And he was like, that's insane. I he was like Mumford and Sons and himself. So we spent months on one song. We've, you know, we'll spend two weeks easily on on two songs, just those two songs for those two weeks. And it was a useful thing to hear, I think. Are you a fan of this? Yeah, of course. What a nice guy. I like him a lot. Yeah. Such a nice guy. So charming and easy to get along with. But also I get to be honest of fan as well. Such a fan of music. So loves music. Such an instrumentalist plays everything knows everyone who's making anything interesting. Marcus knows and plays with. And he actually, he came to one of my shows in New York last year. And he was like, I just love to be in band. I was like, I just want to play in your band. And I said, Marcus, I think you're a bit busy for that. Yeah. I need to be able to do some on-fans on shows. I need you to be playing those. But he just loves music. And I love that about people, especially when you meet people like that, you know, so successful and been in it for such a long time. And he's just still love making things. And you write with them and it's like they've never made a song before. That's how they feel. Yeah, that's why he's still good. Yeah. Of course. Isn't he new album? I think the new album has one of them if not that best. I think it's so good. Yeah. It's the staying in the joy and the excitement of making something and the novelty of making something every time that is why I think you could stay inspired and keep making. You can always be inspired and make records as long as it's real. I think you have to love music and not, I think, to stay inspired and keep making music, you have to keep loving music, like other people's music. I found that. I kind of go in and out of listening to music, like in its proper way. I'll listen to music, but I mean, like, seeking it and like, really loving it. I've been hearing a song and going, "God, I wish I would have said that. I wish I could have said it like that." Exactly. Like, feeling so strongly about something. But I feel like the music that I make is always better when I'm in a season where I feel like that about something else. Excited. Yeah. That's how I felt when I heard your new record. Thank you. Yeah. I was especially struck by Audrey Hepburn. Thank you. That song is so good. Thank you. Do you like that song? I do. Yeah. I like all of them. I like all my music. Yeah. Yeah. I like all the old ones as well. Yeah. I don't know. I feel even if it's not something I would make anymore. I mean, obviously, Audrey Hepburners, I made that not that long ago, but even the older stuff I wouldn't make anymore. I still feel very fond of it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really not somebody that's like, you know, rejects what they made or feels nothing towards it. Like, it's very much not me. I felt really lucky when I listened to your record. Oh, that's lucky to hear it. To hear it. Like, thank you. I got a link and I got to listen to it. I loved to listen to music, but I'm just honest with myself when something hits me or when I'll listen again, or if it's not all, you know, if I skip, I skip, if I go, okay. And with your album, I listened to every song. It was a ride. I was on a ride. It was like a really nice. It was nice to hear something where I could where I was I was listening through every song. It's hard to explain. I felt one part I was reading someone's journal or like one part a fly on the wall watching someone go through a relationship. One part listening to really good songwriting, which is I appreciate. Like I said, it's a lost art form because I really do think that we live in a time where we can construct things that sound good. Yeah. Yeah. It works. It really does. You can make a pop song and go sink it up with something and it's background music that become, you know, so I think you have really good guitar work on your album. Thank you. I mean, that's probably not me. Maybe some of it. Yeah, but in the church who did it. Yeah, it's so thank you. Yeah, I've produced it with a guy called Ian Fitcher who's in Nashville and such a tasteful producer. And I was actually saying that about the album the other day was I listened back and I'm really proud of how not necessarily sparse, but it feels sort of, yeah, tasteful and not overdone, which I'm pleased with. And especially in pop music, it's kind of what you're saying. Something can sound so good. It can kind of get like a pop music suite too. Then just keep going with something. You know, keep sweetening it. And I feel like the album did a good job of sort of sticking to it. It feels like kind of timeless in that perspective. But I think I was just thinking when you were talking, I was just such a song. I'm such a songwriting person like I will. When music comes out that I'm really excited about artists who I love release albums, probably before I can, I'm so impatient to to know it that I will read the lyrics first. Because listening will take me too long to get to every song and read what they're saying, that I will like read the whole thing first. And then I will listen to it. And you want to listen too first? No, I'll still listen front to back. But I just am so impatient to know what the world is and like know what they what they said and what they meant and how and the sort of the story of it that I'll do that first. And then I will just listen from the from the top. Yeah, that's interesting. I can kind of hear that in your music though. You're a lyric person for sure. In a big way. Big time. Yeah, my boyfriend, like, isn't really a lyric person. He said, yeah, I don't really listen to those. And I'm like, I'll just go kill myself then. I don't think I'm particularly a great lyricist, but I would just I would say that I'm a connoisseur of lyrics like that. I hear them so strongly. I can't unhear them. And so when I listen to songs, all I hear is lyrics. Another thing that no one maybe thinks about, but I just think about it so much is how the melody and the lyric together relate relate and how people use melody and lyrics together in relationship with one another. And how I hear whether they intended to think about it or not, some people are very naturally good at it. And then some people have actually an intellectual or more intellectual relationship with their poetry. Yeah, 100%. That's probably one of the things I enjoyed about your album. Was the lyrical journey. Yeah, thank you. And the choices you made in little spots. Yeah, very pedantic. Like, I don't like the this is overboard. But I will notice and I will not just like a song, but I will get a little mark if somebody has written a lyric with Bart twice in the same sentence. I will mark it down. I'm the same. And someone suggests it to me in a room and unfortunately I like them a little bit less. You can't have Bart, you can't have Bart twice in the same sentence and also there's an end and a end and a cause. So anyway, I'm just, I like super big on stuff like that. But I do, I think what you said is so true about melody and lyric, the way they work together, being something that I actually feel like I've tried a little bit more with this album because I definitely, my natural instinct is just lyric and my melody, schmality, like whatever. But I, but I don't believe that. I just think it was my natural instinct. So I, with this album, definitely think I tried a little bit more and I'll obviously probably keep doing that for a long time post this, but not sacrificing the melody. I'm always, I'm never writing a whole lyric though before I've lit melody. I know some people do that. They will write the whole, they'll basically write poetry and melody it, which to me is too far. I do think I, they definitely react more so than, than that way. But yeah, I definitely am on a journey of that of learning to appreciate a melody. Yeah, melodies, to me, just as important. No, historically, they've been good as well, like. Yeah. There are some good melodies out there. But also not being lazy and using the same melody completely all the time, which I had to learn how to do. I definitely, I'm still on that songwriting wise, making sure that I'm not being lazy is one thing. But then also what I would say about your new album, what's the album called? Horizons. Horizons, that's right. But what I enjoyed the most about it was I didn't feel like there was you threw away any lines, any lyrics, which I hear all the time and everyone's, and I'm not like some hypercritic either. I'm not. It's just what I hear and I, and I, I can live with some of it. I go, that's fine. But then when I hear someone do what you did, which is I don't think you threw away any lyrics, which is like really nice. That's refreshing. And it's quite a job. And I'm with you when they say, but or and or cause or whatever those little words, what are those called prepositions? Yeah. Okay. Prepositions when you misuse them or throw them away or fill space with them or it really bugs me. Actually more bugged by that than with an overuse of a baby. I think some people really go to bat for like no babies and songs. And I feel ambivalent about babies and songs, but I fucking hate a double butt like and that makes sense to you. Yeah. Like it does. No babies and songs. But people hate people who really get at me if I, you know, you do a baby and then you do a baby again. But I feel like there can be there can be a time where that is authentic to the song. And that like that's that's that's there's a meaning in that there's no me is that's got meaning a double butt like, but I love you so much. But I don't think about like it's it's not it. It better be such a good but it's just such a strong butt if you're going to use it twice. In the same sentence and you would just never it was so weird. It's so weird, but it's so nice to talk about because I actually have never had this conversation unless I was in the room working on and there was a double butt. And then you have to be the guy to be like guys, we're better than this. But your songs really got me thinking, which was great. That's that's great. And that's cool. Thank you. Great. It's a good album. Thank you. How long did you spend on it? Here I go. I spent I guess about year and a half like top to bottom. Yeah. Is that is that long? Is that short? What do you think? It's long. Mm-hmm. Not the longest. No. But year and a half in the very first song I wrote for it at the on the first day of that year and a half. Right. And then the end being it's like mixed and mastered. And it's a finished thing. Probably a good year. Yeah. So yeah. As in that probably cumulatively a year. Yeah. And then yeah, six months for just waiting around to get to get back in with people or to to do this or that or whatever it was. I think that's a really good thoughtful amount of time. I actually agree. You know, it felt long when I was in it because there was definitely kind of what you just said. There was a few months here and there where I wasn't actively working on it for different reasons. People schedules weren't free. We weren't lining up or whatever it was. And that felt very long to me. But actually looking back, I think it was a good amount of time because sometimes the time you're not making the music is subconsciously important to when you go and do it. Yeah. Giving yourself time to not do the thing you would do without thinking. Sometimes it's good to actually do the thing you would do with thinking. Yeah. And to have the time to reflect. Yeah, like to be thoughtful enough to get the details right and let things happen. Yeah. That's a good amount of time. What's been the hardest thing that you've had to if you could say there was a challenging stage or time or moment in your career from what age were you when you started? 16. Okay, so that's when you decided I'm going to do this. Yeah, I think so. I don't it wasn't actually super active thought. I just did it. I just had, I was in bands and I had a YouTube channel and I put my original music on my YouTube channel, but I actually I wasn't doing it for an end goal. I don't think I said. What did you think you wanted to do? I just wanted to with your life go to university maybe. It's funny. I know that maybe sounds like I'm lying, but I'm not like I didn't I didn't have any like grand ambitions until I started really until it was sort of somebody suggested it to me. I met my manager now and I was 16 and and you know he he was like do you do you want to write with other people? And I really did. I thought that was so cool and and then it was do you want to start a publishing deal? And I really did and I thought that was so cool. But I didn't I never thought to seek it out. I just I loved writing songs. I was writing a song every day for years. So you thought maybe I'll be a songwriter. Yeah, but I didn't know that was a job. I just did. I just really like doing it. Like I just had I had this YouTube channel which I had because I made a couple other internet friends and they had YouTube channels and there was this little community of people in the UK putting original stuff on YouTube and like a little community of fans who would who would watch and engage and I thought that was so cool. Sort of like the beginning of social media for me. And I thought that was cool. So I made YouTube videos in my house. But I guess it was like 2016. I don't know. I it wasn't the same as it was now I guess. Yeah, it's different. You didn't you didn't know what it could lead to in the same way. Yeah, that was actually the time when that stuff became this stuff. So it was like the early days of a certain modality. And I didn't know about it really. I'm like I was I don't wasn't from London or a big city. Where are you from? A small town at Brighton. And you're bright. Oh, one of my very close friends is in a band from Brighton. Really? Architects. Yeah, I do. Yeah. I don't I don't know any of them personally, but I do know. Oh, you love Sam. Really? Well, speaking of lyrics, lyrics and melody. I think he's in architects is a heavy band. But if you listen to their lyrics and you listen to the melody and you they have a very interesting way of making music. And they're also just great guys who have carved out this like really interesting style of heavy music. So when you hear it, it's very aggressive and very heavy. But then you go beneath the music and it's this thoughtful really not like cool really nice interesting. It always as a as a fan of songwriting, I always listen to the records and I love the lyrics and I love the songwriting. And they're just like sweet, nice people. Love. Very conscious, nice people. So yeah, and Sam and and the band are from Brighton. Yeah, good guys. Brighton's a good place. Yeah. Makes good people, I think. Yeah. Do you feel like it's funny? You listened to the to the whole album before you met me. Do you feel that I am what you thought I would be through listening to the album? Yes, you're what I hoped you would be. Oh, okay, good. You hoped because you're fun, but you're serious. Thank you. Which is a good combination. Thank you. Because I feel like you mean what you say, which is night, it's refreshing because sometimes I think we can grow ourselves away. It's more like a who am I? Well, who am I? What what what is what what is what I say matter? I could I I've been guilty of that in my past for a very long time. I was like some self-esteem stuff or whatever, but I think that you're a serious girl. You make great music. It needs to exist. I think it's a world where there's a lot of easy ways to get there. There's a lot of shortcuts you can take. There's a lot of things you can throw away and I think you're doing the hard work, which is writing songs and being vulnerable and and then going out into the world and not hiding. You know, not to say listen, there's lots of ways to present this stuff, but you present it in a way that I think is important. And yeah, when I heard the record, I was like, this is a. building on what you've done in a really, really great way where I can tell what I can hear the hours I can hear the work in it. But when I heard the record, I was excited to talk to you and then I was like, well, there's always the possibility that someone is not open and they don't want to talk about anything. And so the conversation can't flow. There'll be a funny thing to do on a podcast, but I suppose make people are doing that. There's definitely an openness that has to have to be comfortable. If you weren't open, I would be more self-conscious and then there would be a less fun conversation. For sure. But your music and you, I can feel how open and honest you're being in your songs because when I sit with you, it's the same person. That's so cool. Well, that's cool to hear. I guess I've never really asked anyone that before because it's kind of unique that someone would hear your music before they've let you know that's not unique at all, but I'm unlikely to ask somebody. But to have a first listen, which not a lot of people I've had, I felt at all upon first listen, yeah. Yeah, what about me? We just wrap it there. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. So, you know, I think my base level, going to be so honest, was lifestyles of the rich and the famous. Yeah. You're quite different from that. Yeah. I mean, make sense. Yeah. If I was to talk to the human embodiment of that song, I think we'd be having different conversations. Yeah. But the duality of man, you know what I mean? You can be both. Yes. But you know what? I did. I was in Australia recently and when you guys were either in Australia or just been in Australia. Okay. And I'm good friends with this guy called Thomas Bleach, who does my PR and he was working with you guys at the same time. And he said, you guys were really nice and you were massive in Australia. And I did think you were Australian for a bit. So you're not. We're not. No. So I love that. A lot of people think we're Australian. Yeah. Well, and you know, so that's not a thing I didn't expect. But he did say, you guys, your show was great. He loved your show. And he was really. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you think so. And he loved. Yeah. He loved you guys left your show and said you were really easy and fun to work with. So that was subconsciously my mind and that you were not Australian. Yes. Because I did. I actually think I said that you were on TV. So just letting you know that. Well, not at all. No. And somebody should clip that in Australia. If you thought they were Australian, thumbs up, they're not everyone else in Australia. Did you? No. People do think that though to be fair. I just know I think English and Australians get annoyed when you mix the two up. Well, yeah, I maybe maybe we do sort of an annoyed based level bunch at the English. Yes. So it doesn't take much. Doesn't take much. No, sir. But turns out you know, Australian, either am I. But you're English. You're very English. I am. Thank you. And it's it's great. I love it. I love the English. You guys love the English. We love it. We're a little bit of an accent. Tell a joke. They go wild. It's so great. Just turn up the American accent all the way. Big time. I actually have quite a good American accent. Would you like to hear? Yeah, please. Maybe this is the end. That is so tight. Say it again. That is so tight. Say oh my god. Oh my god. That was so. Yeah. Okay. You did it. This episode. So tight. Macy, thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for being here. I was a pleasure. Good luck with your record. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Artist Friendly. You can also watch the episodes on Spotify. 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