Magnus Carlsen is Unmatched, Anal Bead Cheating, & Which Ethnicity is Best at Chess

- What's up, everybody? Welcome to Flagrints and a new cheating scandal has brought the chess world. You guys will learn all about it. A dynasty has been broken. - Yes. - Well, actually not really, unfortunately. It might be the only person to cheat at chess and lose, but you guys will think of that a little bit. But today, we are joined by absolute legend in the chess community. A legend in the YouTube community. This is a legend, Ross, but it's in the video. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Dude, I'm excited to be here. - I've been talking about you on the pod for a little bit now. - Yeah, why did you take so long? Do you have the DM I sent you guys? - No. - You don't know this lore? - No. - 2022, I DM the Flagrints pod. - No. - During the cheating scandal. - No. - No. - Yeah. - How did we let this happen? - No, okay. - But it's also kind of embarrassing yet, 'cause I got ghosted. - Did it, was it red? - No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, but that's how I kind of learned that you can't really, you can't really DM people on Instagram to try to do collabs, really? I've tried since then, you're not just you guys. I think people just don't check the request page. - Oh, that's the main account page. If you hit me directly, I would've been in the tank going crazy. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Not too, I was a little bit like-- - I don't even know who runs our Instagram page. - 'Cause I was just like, oh, I watch, you know, I've watched UFC for so long. And obviously, you know, I saw like so much of Andrew's stuff during COVID and after I'm like, oh, it would've been cool. Just to talk about the scandal. - Before years later, you know, it's all good. - Still not. - Yeah, super cool to be here, no. - And that was really embarrassing for me. I'm a really embarrassing story I could share here. - Please. - But I don't want to like sidetrack. - No, we're not sidetrack. - This is why you're here. - Okay, yeah, you're kind of in the sphere of like UFC. You've been on aerial Hawaii show. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I once accidentally followed him for like a whole commute. (laughing) - Yeah. - Does an aerial live up in like Connecticut or something? - Well, I don't know. - That's a bit awkward. - He was driving behind. - No, no, so right before, I don't know if he remembers this 'cause he's been a decade. But I do, you know, 'cause you have fan interactions that are all over the place, right? Sometimes they're really excited, nervous. They don't know what to do. They try to small talk to you. I'm on the train going downtown right before Floyd Conner. And I'm on the train and I'm going to a chess lesson 'cause that was my career before I was a YouTuber. I see aerial Hawaii. Look out, I'm gonna go say hi. So I kind of walk over. We're on opposite sides of the train. So I'm already getting a little closer. Crazy guy gets on. Crazy guy yelling, violent. Everybody moves to the next car. Now I'm following aerial to the next car. I'm very aware that this probably looks weird. Worst part is we both get off in fight-eye. 'Cause he's probably working there. - It's all this is down there, yeah. - Worst part is we're walking in the same direction to the same exit, 'cause I live that way. - Best part is nobody's ever felt threatened by you. - Yeah, that is true. So I don't know if you noticed. And finally I'm like happy. - And I like talking to him a little bit. And I think I was so nervous. I asked him his opinion on the fight. And then at some point I'm like, if you ever wanna recommendations in the area, we can get in touch on it. - And I was like, why the fuck did I offer it? So now whenever I have an awkward fan interaction, I'm like, hey, I've been there, done that. And yeah, if I saw you or if I saw some UFC fighter, I think I will also be pretty nervous. - Did you tell him like, hey, I'm not following you. We're just going in the same direction. - I don't remember at this point. I don't wanna know what I said. - If you remember this interaction, I'm gonna be really-- - Who's working with the crazy guy? - Yeah, he was like, this is all part of the plan. - Oh, so crazy guy on the train. - Just reliving cringe is so good. - It's unreal. - I was doing some like, what's called ADR for this Street Fighter movie. So basically like, you don't say the line well enough or they need you to say something different. So you go into this booth, right? - And I gotta lie, I think I don't know if I can show. I don't know if we can show it, but if you wanna see like peak fucking cringe. So the director, Kitau Sakurai, who's amazing, he starts videotaping me while I'm doing the ADR. - And the ADR I have to do is, I just have to make like screaming sounds 'cause I'm running against the bad guy and the bad guys kick in my ass. - I don't know if we can show it, but I'm gonna show you guys, and then I'm just gonna go hide somewhere. (laughing) (screaming) (grunting) (laughing) - So painful, so painful. 'Cause I'm not just making sounds, I'm like acting like this in the movie. - I mean, the worst is like seeing footage of yourself like at a party or at the club. - Like do you remember, someone pulled it up, we were like, I don't even remember where we were. It was me like at the club. - No, it was at you at Madison Square Garden in the 50s. - Oh no, no, don't even bring that up at all. - Yeah, and like 50, it is just like, you know, wrap it and the whole place go crazy and work. Just trying to like fit in. - Well, here's my spirit, all right. I'm just behind 50 cents. 50 cents performing on a stage in Madison Square Garden. What do you do, right? You can't just stand there. So you got to kind of move a little. But now you're like, well everyone's looking at me move, like a dumbass. So I was like, okay, I'm just gonna copy what he does. - Yeah, but then I just look like a backup dancer literally copying every single move. And then he does a thing that looks so cool when he does it, where he'll be kind of like going side by side. He's going like this, but you can see when I'm doing it. - You kind of look like a predator. (all laughing) - Dude, I don't, I get it. If I had to be on stage behind it, I'm not sure I would have even gone. I would have been like, no, I'm good. - I was, I wanted a camera. I was like, give me that. I just want to film. - Yeah, it's so new. - Oh man. - Oh brother, we're so stoked to have you here. Like Mark has become obsessed with chess. - Yeah. - Because he was your fault. - So yeah, you got it. - You'll have to handle some of the divorce of my wife. You'll have to live. - Oh, it's okay. - Is it getting there? - Oh my goodness. I mean, I should have just wake up at 2 a.m. She's like, what are you doing? - And I'll just point it over. - Keep lying. (all laughing) - Chess is like that. - Yeah. - It gets you. - All consuming. - I think he's getting the bug, dude. - I think you've changed. - You've changed the bug a little bit. - I mean, it is fun. It is very fun. I don't know. It's like, it's one of those things. It's like how many, there's a lot of layers to be onion. - You know, so I'm like, oh God, if I get obsessed with this, is there a nut, do I have enough time in my day to be obsessed with another thing? - It fills the gaps. - It's the water in the jar. - Yeah. - Like it just fills in everything else. So you're just like, what do you do when you poop? - I scroll Instagram just. - Yeah, it's like, no, yeah. - But imagine you play a little blitz game. - Oh, nothing better. - Are you two more? - Yeah. - And then two more. - That's the problem. - If you get hemorrhoids, yeah, we're talking. - Now you're just like destroying some guy in like a third world country. You're just like, you take that, you know what I mean? - It does have brain benefits. It also, it depends like what kind of a person you are. If you're a bad loser, if you're a bad student, if you're not good at analyzing your own weaknesses. But I know you got into paddles. So at me too, I played it in Spain two years ago and I'm completely obsessed, but it's the same thing. Like if you really enjoy something and you wanna get better at it, it does extend to other parts of life. I'm also talking to the people that are gonna listen to this. It'll show you how to be a good student in anything. - The problem with me is that I actually really enjoy the learning process. So like I take lessons in paddling. So now I'm gonna have another thing that I'm taking lessons at and I'm gonna have to tell my wife, that like you're gonna have to look after both of these kids. While you're breastfeeding and losing your hair. Because I have to learn a new opening, you know. - That's how I need to learn to show. - You can teach your daughter too though. - That is true. - And our pal, Levy just wrote a little book on that, you know. - Yeah, we don't know. - It wasn't the goal, but yeah, I mean. - I need to plug the book, come on. - Chest for yeah, it's chest for babies. But um. - And that's you and your daughter in this case. - That's true. - There is a bonus link that's like, this is kind of for the parent that also wants to get into it. I mean, it's been my thing for, you know. I was, I was in college here in New York. - When you were in school? - I went to Bruek. - I went to Bruek high school. - Yeah, I saw that. I was like, I don't know if they're related. I don't know if they're-- - You know, leaders couldn't afford a real room. So they put us in the college. I couldn't afford a real college, so I went to Bruek there. And I was doing like a stats degree and I started teaching chess while in college. So I basically got started teaching kids who were five and six years old. And if you can convince them, chest is important. When COVID started, I was like, maybe I can make YouTube videos. Maybe people will watch Tuesday. I wonder, I can't believe people find this interesting. - Well, this chest is boring. - I hit up Mark, I think this is a few days ago. I'm watching videos of you call games that are like famous games that have like happened throughout history. We're talking, but not games are like recent history. This could be fucking in the 1800s. And people have documented every move of these games. - And then you were doing like the play by play. And I text Mark, I'm just like, I don't know how, but I am mesmerized watching him explain what happened in these chess matches. I don't get it. It doesn't make any sense. I know there are people watching right now who don't care about chess. They're like, there's no way that's possible. Just go to his YouTube page and watch this match. - What was it? What was it? It's called controversial. - The most notorious chess player of all time. Two weeks ago you posted this, right? Is that the one? - Yeah, it was disappointed and do very well. - Yeah, fucking 300,000 views. - You might as well. - It was like it's on the match. - It's on the complete film. - Frinting money. But yeah, so I don't know why it's so interesting. And like, there's a lot of one I want to talk about. I want to talk about the Bud Plug controversy. I want to talk about like rise in chess. I'm sure Mark has a million things he wants to talk about as well. But so I watched this chessmate's documentary and Netflix that I'm sure everybody, where there's this Hans Neeman character who somehow miraculously rises to the top of the chess world, beats Magnus. Magnus then said Magnus Carlson is the number one ever, I think, basically. And then Magnus basically alleges without saying anything that he's cheating. - Yeah. - What do you think was happening? - I think-- - Are you allowed to say, or is it like political shit, you're not allowed to say? - No, no, I mean, I can share. I've shared it in videos too. I think basically the synopsis, that documentary is fantastic if you didn't follow it at the time. It's a good synopsis, but there's definitely details left out. I have a theory. It took them four years to publish it because it came out in 2022. They needed a crescendo, they needed kind of like the grand moment and in Paris, which is kind of where it ends, two years later in 2024, Magnus and Hans play for the first time, sort of since the scandal. I remember I was nervous. I was there. I was interviewing both of them. It's an interview with Hans, where it just goes completely off the rails, which was not in the documentary. >> But what happens? >> He just basically, he goes into a spiel, it's called Explosive Hans' Demon Interview. He goes into a whole thing about how I'm a chess.com puppet, chess.com controls the narrative. He tried to come at me, and then it was a whole thing. And he ended up losing, he ended up losing to Magnus, badly or pretty badly, but convincingly. But I think they waited so long because they wanted him to win, because ultimately if the guy who's accused of cheating wins and- >> It's validates a lot of things. >> He's had his opportunities to beat Hans, to beat Magnus, since this interview. He's never actually beaten him, like they played in the World Blitz Championship, speech us. Hans won one of the first four games. It's the best of four. >> This is recently? >> Yeah, it was 2024. So Hans took the lead. One and a half half, he won a game, I'm like, oh my god, he's going to beat Magnus in the quarterfinal. There's two games back-to-back wins, and then he slams the king on the board, and I'm like, this is fucking awesome. This is just needs this shit. >> That's the thing that I hope people will kind of understand is there. I think when you see just an Instagram clip, and you see some guy like Crying's, like an Indian guy crying, or there's the Asian guy who gets beaten by the Indian kid, do you remember that? >> That sounds like it. >> Every time. >> Every time. >> Yeah, I forget exactly. >> Why is there so much passion behind it? I'm selling you. You watch this documentary, you watch some of his videos, and it just changes everything. It turns into like formula one or some shit. I don't know how else it is. >> Yeah, I love it. I think what makes it great for me is that I'm not faking. Ultimately, I love the sport. I love following all the tournaments. Even the tournaments, nobody's really watching. Just because I'm curious to see what openings are being played, what players are on the rise. I love it. I just presented. I don't scream as much like on the street when I ordered coffee. As far as this scandal, I think the summary is this. Hans has always been a really brash kid. He reminded me of me just to a whole nother level. He's always like, a little bit arrogant, a little bit in your face, very aggressively extroverted, very smart. And I think there were rumors already before he beat Magnus, like this dude cheated online. >> But he did? >> Yes, cuz it just I can't publish that. It wasn't public then. So have other people, but they're not as, they don't have the same personality as Hans. Hans is very unapologetic, so you almost get the sense that he doesn't take any, he doesn't believe that he did anything wrong. And I actually asked him in this interview, you could have just been like, hey man, I cheated, I'm really sorry, I've never cheated over the board. One famous example, Chale's son, right? He's like proud of it, he's just like, what do you mean if you're, you're, you're in trying. I think people still do this, they don't trust Hans, they will never trust Hans. We're sitting here, right? And Hans is playing now one-on-one matches against people, cuz he can't play on chest.com. >> No, no, he can, but he doesn't get invited to tournaments, cuz if you're gonna invite people to to a tournament, and you're like a really strong player, like, I don't want him there, I don't trust him. And then they're gonna listen to that. And so he's playing these one-on-one matches, because I don't think people will ever fully trust him, just cuz of the way he is, combined with the fact that like, yeah, he cheated when he was a teenager. >> Yeah. >> But he doesn't seem like he's like, sorry for it, the languages. >> But does he have the level? >> Yeah, it seems like right now he's probably like a top 15, 20 player in the world. >> Oh, no. >> He got there. And in speech, just probably top 10, top 10. >> And that's the thing that I actually really like about Hans. I know he's controversial in the chest world, but as a casual chess fan, he brings an energy to the game. That makes me want, like, it's kind of like McGregor-esque, or it's like- >> Or Floyd-esque. >> Like, he's talking shit, he's arrogant, he's just putting this energy into the game that I'm sure if I was a competitor, and I played 30 years, from the Soviet Union, and I played like a super strict game, and I'm playing against this kid, I'd be a little annoyed. But as a fan, I'm like, this is awesome. >> I mean, like, I mean, you watch wrestling at all, like WWE. >> A little bit, but not nowhere near as much as UFC. >> So, like, the heel character is almost notoriously defined by the heel because he cheats. >> Oh, okay. >> And the worst the heel is, the more beloved the baby face is, you know. >> So you need the heel to have a baby face. Like, I like Magnus Moore seeing him beat Hans in that term, because I'm like, oh, wow, even with everything against Magnus, he's still prevailed, even against all the allegations in the drama, he's still achieved it. >> Like, WWE, the heel is the moneymaker, and it's not the moneymaker because they make all the money. But without the heel, you don't have the baby face that we're all rooting for. And that is the expression that we want to see, right? It's like, we want to see the David vs. Goliath, we want to see the guy who can now possibly beat him. And so there is this version where I'm like, you got to kind of keep him involved. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> And also, I think it's important to be delicate with the cheating stuff, because that is like the gravest sin. >> Interesting, yeah. >> It is like, if comedy is like joke stealing, like jazz is like, you cannot cheat. It is your whole credibility. >> Quick update, I'm gonna be out in LA shooting movie this summer, but we added some stand-up shows. So pull on up. The Ontario improv will be there, the 26th and 27th. And then the Braia improv will be there July 17th and July 18th. And then we're gonna be at the Halifax Nova Scotia, Canada, Great Outdoors Fest, August 8th. So you can go grab tickets and any of those shows if tickets are still available, dandruffsholes.com. All right, Mark, what do you got? >> Oh, I have great news. I'm going all over the end of the year. I'm going to Plano, Texas, Chandler, Arizona, Pasadena, California, San Diego, California. And then I'm also going to a couple other spots that are gonna be coming up at the end of the year, like Detroit, Michigan, and Salt Lake City, Utah. And I can wait. I can't wait to see you guys all there. Okay, I'm on live.com, Alex, guys, my monthly comedy show is back, Cancel Comedy is on June 24th. We have a killer lineup. Get your tickets at canceledcomedyx.com. And then my tennis series, theallloveclub.com, the tennis is on July 25th. I'll see you guys there. The first one was fantastic. The second one is going to be even better. >> You guys know what the most viewed live chess matchable time is? >> It's, it's an Indonesian podcaster named Corbusier. >> Corbusier? >> Yeah. And it's the Deua Keep Us chess match, long story short, 2021, March, I play a game online on my stream. I'm like, my opponent's cheating. I just report my opponent and they get banned for cheating. At some point that account won 27 games in a row. >> And it's just what wouldn't happen, it's just a cheater. At night, a guy makes a post from Indonesia, he says, my father played a big streamer and the streamer got mad. He lost to my father, mass reported my father. And now my dad is banned and my dad is a local tournament champion. Here's all the proof. He won some chest trophies. I was canceled by a country. I learned in March 2021, Indonesia, do you know how many people live in Indonesia? Like 250 million? >> Yeah. >> It's like the fourth biggest country on the planet. When Indonesia picked this up, nobody fact checked anything. For all we know, the young son could have cheated on the dance again. We don't know. Long story short, Corbusier invites the dad and the son to the podcast. And what they do is they organize this match between the father and Irene Sukander, who is an international chess master, one of the best players in Indonesia. And they had a price fund of like $20,000. This chess match was watched by 1.3 million people live on YouTube. >> So it became his massive sporting event. >> Yeah, and she won 3-0 because he was okay at chess, but not enough to beat me or her. And it's still not clear who actually cheated, but this is where it sort of stopped. But that was a crazy month because I was receiving thousands of DMs a day telling me that I'm going to get murdered and it was sure they all apologized to you. >> That did not happen. But now there is a positive resolution to the whole thing. I do have a lot of chess fans from Indonesia like, hey man, sorry, this is kind of how it is here. We want to stand up for what's right. And if you just read the headline, it's terrible. >> Yeah. >> I reported a 50 year old man with my fan base and got a man, but whatever that account was, if it was the son, he probably cheated, and he didn't cheat, you know? So controversy sells 1.3 million live. >> Does it negatively impact your score when you lose to somebody significantly worse than you? >> Yeah, I mean, there's the elo, the rating changes every game. So if you're 500 and I'm 1500, and I lose to you, my might go down like 15 points. But the good thing is, I can win it back. It's not a fatal blow. It's very different than if you lose a championship fight and the person pops. That's very different chess. You can run it back very easily. >> Yeah, there's a thing like in paddle, where in order to play in the certain division, you need to be like over a five. So what happens is once people get over a five, they just stop playing matches where the scores are talented, because they're like, I can't risk going down and I can't play in this division anymore. But does that happen at all with chess? >> Yeah, but like more on a human level in the sense that, oh my god, I'm so close to a thousand. That's a big benchmark for people. >> Yeah, there. I think everybody you can get to a thousand. You have to change a couple things, fine-tune, like study a little bit more. But once you get to 990, you're shitting your pants. My wife was on the grind recently, she got to 992 and then she lost like 100 points. And this is normal. >> 100 points. >> Yeah, well, because over time, you lose, you get tilted, you want to play a little bit more. I was stuck at 2850, my peak, for like five years. >> I hope that you were just playing as like other people. >> I can't start. She got to 992. I can't let this chicken put down some of them at the end. >> I also, we had the opposite where she'd be like, you know, we're like sometimes sitting. She's like, is my position good? I'm very fair. I'm like, I can't tell you. Because if you were playing someone and like on the other side, someone's cheating, I'm like, I would be furious. But, yes, certainly there's this. I was stuck at 2800 for five years. And when I broke to 2900 the first time, I almost threw a party for myself. And then since then I climbed to 3,000. And you know what I think? I think there was rating inflation. >> What does that mean? >> I think just like the way it works, there's a weird period of time where the average rating sort of floats up. For example, if Hikaru and Magnus go from 3,300 to 3,400 and then they start losing games, it's like trickle down economics. >> Obviously those points got to go somewhere. >> Then they go to the 32, the 31, the 3,000. >> Yeah. Kind of going up. Elos is an old fascinating thing. It's like mathematical formulas and everything. Elos around the world is different. For example, a 1,500 in India is not a 1,500 from America. >> Who's better? >> The 1,500 from India. >> Just more people playing? >> Yeah, way better. Another example, before the chess boom six years ago, a 1,200 on chess.com was awful. Now a 400 can defeat a 1,200 from five years ago. Because there's so much knowledge, the average elo is going lower. All the people are good. >> Oh, wow. >> But your games might be chaotic, but they also might be completely, you just play a game where I didn't do anything wrong and I fucking lost. >> Right. >> What the fuck? >> Yeah, I was cheating. >> I lost. >> Yeah, yeah. So, elo is another fascinating thing. It's not like tennis. I wish it was just a culmination of a calendar year, but it's not quite like that. >> Here's people who use all sorts of metaphors to describe chess. You were even mentioning some before, like business or whatever. What is it about chess that is so addictive? And what metaphor could you use to explain it to people that maybe have never played or played a little when they were kids? >> Yeah, it's very easy. For me, also being a person who did some boxing, did some judo, and like, followed it for basically half my life, it compares directly to a one-on-one fight. Even the preparation for an opponent is exactly the same. They're playing style, how they start the game. They're strengths and weaknesses. At what point are they going to get tired? It's very similar to that. >> What do you mean at one point, are they going to get tired? >> Well, for example, I don't want to get two topics. So, let me just answer this first. It probably, that is probably the best comparison that I could draw. It's to individual sport. And it hooks people because it's uniquely the one activity that makes you feel incredibly intelligent and incredibly stupid at the same time. There is nothing like it. You feel so proud when you win a chess game. And then you feel unbelievably dumb when you play rook takes pawn. You're like, nothing can bring that out of you. It's a mental warfare. It's like four hours of a physical sport, but in your head. And we know, we got demons up here. And they really come out. It exposes all of your kind of worst habits. What was your question? >> The mental aspect. Sorry, so the mental fatigue. You can track or you'll know when somebody will start to get tired. >> Yeah, easily. You can sort of analyze, like, hey, this person in the third and fourth hour of the game is less accurate. They manage their time worse. They leave themselves less time. >> So, when you're preparing for an opponent that you know, not just a random game that happens on chess.com, but this is somebody that you know that you're going up to. You're looking at openings that they'll commonly use. How many different openings will, for example, someone of your level have four or five consistently, like with white and black? >> Oh, so it's not like 10,000 different. >> No, it's tight. >> So you play, wow, it's kind of like boxing where it's like this guy's a counter-punter. This guy, big swings. And then you have four or five that you're comfortable playing through. But there's thousands of permutations. So other people might have a four or five that have nothing to do with yours. >> Yeah, I study there over the board games, you know, the games they've played live. If I'm lucky, I uncover their secret online account that has no name, but there's, you know, there's ways that if you're smart, you can sort of find it. Now what people do is they play on chess.com with like a fake flag, a fake profile picture. I have an account like that. Everybody has. >> It goes to count. >> Yeah, because you need to train. You need to play your real openings so you can simulate it in a game, like sparring in the gym, but you can't have people knowing that that's what you're practicing, right? >> Oh, wow. >> So that's what you do. You do three or four openings. You check your opponent's games. Most of us are working behind the scenes. Like for the next tournament, I'm going to go and I'm going to play a new thing that my opponent won't expect. >> So you're developing a new opening that you're comfortable with that I played in all line games that you never saw that I played in all line games? >> Got it. >> And so you're trying to track what that might be for your opponent. >> Yes. >> And knowing what they're opening is, like what type of advantage percentage wise? >> You, so first of all, you get them down on time early. So they're deep in the tank. >> That's interesting. >> They're trying to like, then if you get really lucky, I don't like this time thing by the way. >> Yeah, but we got. >> I know you have to do it for the sport, right? But like if you're looking at its purest form, it's not who makes the decision the fastest. It's just who makes the right decision. >> But can you say the same thing about fighting? >> You're in a boxing match and it's like, well, it should just be whoever beats the shit out of the other guy the most. But it's like, well, you have time. >> Well, I would say it's like the inferson in boxing, right? Because it's like if you really want to know who the best most skilled boxer was, you would have less time per round. >> Yeah, but it's kind of like you don't want exhaustion to be calculated into the skill of the sport. >> Mm-hmm. >> Yes. >> You know what I'm saying? Because once you get tired by the end of the round, you can't throw as many punches as much. If you just want to know who is the best at throwing punches, who hit the hardest, et cetera. But I guess it is part of having a gas tank is part of it. >> So I guess you can calculate that as like, decision speed. >> That's like how Joe Rogan is advocates for one round or I don't know if he advocates for one round or if he advocates for just an open space like no cage. >> I think the 25 minute round of fighting, the champs would probably be different if they had to come to me. >> I think it could be maybe even said that, which is like, or maybe Nate Diaz, which is why don't we just have no rounds. >> Yeah. >> This is just one round. >> And it becomes a different sport. >> Yeah, and then it's like, yeah, yeah, I guess that's a good point. >> Okay, sorry. >> No, but I do. >> You have a good point. This only changed like 30-ish years ago, in 1984, as a famous match, Kasparov, who's the go. He's like the Michael Jordan of chess. And then Carpov, the Soviet champion, young Kasparov taking on Carpov back then, the rules were basically unlimited. You had to beat a guy six times to become the world champion, draws didn't count. So you weren't playing to a point total, you had to beat him six times. Carpov gets out to a five-one lead. There's a bunch of draws. So they've played like 20 games, but he's won five. >> This is the Soviet. >> Yeah, they're both Soviet. They're both Soviet. >> Oh, okay. >> Kasparov, at the time now, he's obviously much more, you know, western, probably lives in New York, you know, very anti-Russian regime. We don't have to get into all that. But Kasparov starts locking down and winning games. So like 10 draws, he wins a game. 10 draws, he wins another game. >> Over how much time? >> Three months. >> So Kasparov gets back into the match over the course of like two months of play. >> Down one five, gets back to like five, four, five, three. And the Soviets are like, hey, you guys are both ill. We can't finish this match anymore. You're both going to, you know, and he's like, what, this is corruption, you know, like what are you talking about? I want to play. I want to play. And then they postpone the match. They end up playing a match in 1985 and Kasparov wins it. But back then, they would play to a point total. They removed the fact that you had to win six games or you could theoretically play forever. That's why the clock is there. That's why they, you know, play to a point. You need this. So we need the clock. We need some sort of restraint on it. So who ends up winning the match or whatever you want? >> So 1985 Kasparov beats Garpov, 1987, Kasparov beats Garpov, 1990, Kasparov beats Garpov. So they played four world championship matches, Kasparov won every world championship match by one game. It's like the closest rivalry ever that was not close. It's fascinating. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> By not close, you mean Kasparov always won. >> Yeah. >> But it was like 51% to 49%. >> Yeah. >> 50 of ability. >> 50.3 to 49.0. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Sorry, go Mark. >> Is that the most intense rivalry, you would say? >> By far because nobody rivals Magnus. Like we haven't had that type of close rivalry ever because, you know, tennis has like a big three. You always has a big two, big three. >> Yup, yup. >> Chess has a big one. It's like basically the way it's always been. >> And why is that? >> It's inexplicable. Nobody quite knows why Magnus is so good. It could be a mix of like photographic memory. So he remembers patterns and positions in games from decades ago. And also he just has a better intuition. You drop him in any chess position, give him a thousand chess positions, he'll find the best move in a thousand positions, sample size better than anybody in the world. >> Could he have made it out of that position that I stupidly put myself in? >> If you were, oh, no, that was probably, like I could probably beat Magnus consistently up a rook. But if he started the game against me down like a bishop, which is a substantial disadvantage, with a clock, I think he would. >> Would he beat you on the clock or would he beat you? >> A mix of both. >> Because I would be also afraid of him. >> I would change my play more delegate game. >> Yeah, I'd be more afraid of. >> Yeah. >> How much is that play into it? How much is, you know, you would always hear this with like Mike Tyson fighting where like certain guys lost the fight before they even got in the ring. You saw with Michael Jordan, fourth quarter, you know, he comes back in the game and then guys would get a little spooked. >> Yeah. >> Do you get the yips with your decision making and chess? >> 100%. Especially, it's my, it's something that I've realized also since like late 20s, 30s and I'm not used to playing and competing with such a spotlight. Like my whole life, I just kind of go to tournaments, nobody really knows who I am. >> And now everybody knows who you are, they're watching your games. It's all this pressure. >> Yeah. >> And also, you know, I go home from a tournament game, Hikaru, who's the number two player in the world, already covered it. >> That's right. >> So the number two in the world, by the way, he's like covering my game and like here's the good, you know, a good moment, bad moment. And then, you know, that's, yeah, it's way more pressure than I thought. >> And for opponents of Magnus, especially guys in their late 20s, 30s, 40s, like his generation, yeah, totally. >> Definitely afraid of them. >> Just definitely afraid of them. >> Fold? >> Yeah, they break at some point. >> And how does that manifest on the board? Like for someone who knows nothing about chess, like what is a, what is a decision that they're making? >> Yeah. >> Are they more defensive or they, yeah, it's two things. So you'll get into a long, long game against Magnus, fourth hour, fifth hour. There's, board is simplified, but he's known as an end game god. >> That just means when half the pieces have been traded, and there's no structure, nothing you can memorize anymore. >> That's his time. >> He somehow knows where the pieces go better than you. And so you're looking at something five moves down, he's looking at the same thing. You're like, damn, I feel like, I feel like he has something there. He's going to get my pawn. He's going to get his knight to like this square and, what's amazing is like, I won't go for that. I'm going to do something else because I feel like in that type of position, he'll, he'll get me. But the computer is like, there's nothing there, just go there, just go to this position that doesn't lose there. >> So if you could take the emotion out of it, you'd actually probably play better against him. >> Yeah, everybody, everybody would. Having said that, we're like living in the midst of his worst tournament ever in like 10 years. >> The Norway term. >> Yeah, he's playing in Norway, and he's lost four games, which hasn't happened in 11 years. And he's losing to, you know, the next generation. It's going to happen, I mean, father time is undefeated. At some point, he will lose more than he wins, or he will lose more than he's ever lost. But that hasn't really happened yet. He's won the World Championship like 20 times. >> Can you pull himself back up in this tournament, or you think he won't win it? >> He won't win it. >> Because it's a point. >> Yeah, it's just the point thing. It'll be the first tournament, 23 or 24 tournaments over the course of three years that he hasn't won. But here's his calcium rating right now for this tournament, versus Wesley So. >> Now, this is the next match. >> This is the next match. >> But they haven't had 64 in a percent. >> He's still in favor. I mean, he's like, there's a worst tournament he's playing 10 years. He's still a two to one favor. >> Yeah. >> But I was talking to someone that kind of gave me some perspective on this specifically with classical chess, that when you're the best for that long, the will and the, maybe the motivation to get in and study, you know, five different openings and get into your opponent's, your burner account to learn how they play, that will kind of goes away a little bit. Whereas if you're a young guy, when you're playing Magnus, that is the only game you're thinking about. >> Yeah. >> But for Magnus, that's just another game. And so you have this sort of motivation, disincentive that happens, I think, when you are the best for that long. And I wonder if that's what's happening to Magnus now. >> 100% and he's a father. >> Right. >> Everybody wants to get him involved in the, in the next chess project. >> Yeah, he's probably got business, this is, so he's not applying himself in the same way. So I imagine, given the, given the amount of content that he has on the internet, like I imagine every game that he plays publicly is scrutinized, right? So it's like, you, I imagine you could probably memorize most of his openings, the ones that he uses classically, you're starting to recognize patterns at the end game, as you said. Like I imagine if there's some young kid who's been studying one person, it's the best person. So he's probably the most like known player in terms of his tendencies, right? >> Yes. And yet having said all of that, it's still the story that he's underperforming as opposed to he's getting outplayed. >> Right. Oh, that's interesting. They're framing it as he's playing poorly, and some of these young guys are playing great. >> Yes. >> But that's still kind of true. >> Really? >> It hasn't, because it's one tournament. And so we are so used to, oh, he lost a couple of games in the middle of a tournament. His odds of winning this tournament are now like 10, 20%. He just like roars back and wins the tournament. Is there like a thing that happens, I've noticed this with standup, I've noticed that even a little bit like with paddle, where are you in rooms with like incredibly like successful people, titans of business? And because you're better than them, that's something that they really value. Do they have like a very different social dynamic with you, with like a Bill Gates or somebody who likes chess, does he act like a little fanboy around you or something like that? >> I've never met him. I have a very different and fascinating dynamic with successful people than a Magnus would have. His dynamic is, my God, you're such a genius. That's what, and so he gets invited to, he was just like, it was the most random thing. It was a clip of him and Eileen Goop at the science, I don't know what it's called, like a science development conference and they introduced an award for some sort of research. And I was like, okay, that's cool. That's the stuff that he gets invited to. Tech conferences, AI, a lot of the tech folks, they sort of want to be adjacent. I get a lot of, I kind of get a lot of like, hey, I didn't know how much chess could be fascinating. I'm sort of, I'm really into it. I played it when I was younger and now I'm back into it in my 30s, 40s, 50s and my kids play. So the cool thing with chess content is, I never thought it would be like this, but it's one of the few things every generation of a household does together. >> It's interesting. >> Kids are not going to, you know, the kids are going to watch the Mr. B stuff and the parents are going to watch CNN. I don't know, like Fox. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And chess is not the same way. But I've seen people, I've finished the collab with Magnus once and I got into a taxi in France going to Charles de Gaulle and we're driving and the guy just turns and goes, brother, like yes, he's like, was that guy Magnus Carlson? And I'm just like, what? Yeah, I'm like, you play chess? He's like, no, no, I'm from Tunisia, I don't play so much chess, but that guy is a genius. And I was like, all right, like hell, hell yeah, you know? So yeah, that's kind of like the Magnus effect. >> It's a little genius. >> Is there ever an amosity within the chess world where you will be around these other grandmasters or these grandmasters that are, you know, the top five? >> Yeah. >> But you are more well-known in many ways. >> Well-fear. >> Yeah, better paid. Is there ever an amosity from the chess world where they're like, why does Levy get this and not me? >> I don't, so I think there's a lot of behind closed doors talking about a person and I kind of hear it. I sort of hear the murmurs and the rumors. The answer to your question, the short answer is yes, absolutely. Not just me, there's, you know, content creators who are women and they get it much worse than, you know. >> The sisters. >> Yeah, the sisters, yeah. They get a whole different side of things on their own. >> Yeah. These players don't like the fact that they have achieved the absolute top at this intellectual pursuit, you know, this mental cerebral type of thing. And here I am, like breaking it down for people and people care a lot more about, you know, my content. I'm top 3,000 in the world, top 2,000 in the world. Like why am I more famous, why am I more popular? The only chess players in the world that really don't have these concerns are the ones that have achieved, like, massive success. And that's, you know, the Magnus, the Hikaru. And some players who are, let's say, from India or Uzbekistan where there's really good state sponsorship. So, these players are superstars in India because they're world champ, they're top 5, top 10 in the world. And it's cultural. It's not really the culture to be like, actually. It's a reflection of like someone's success and their financial standing. Yeah. And yeah, that's where the resentment kind of comes from. I will say it's probably similar stuff in comedy, it's slightly different. Chess is, and I've thought about this a lot, it's the only activity in the world where the top athletes hate the top creators. Like if, imagine in basketball, if Steph Curry hated the professor, it's just like, like, yeah. What? It has to do with money. It has to do with Chess hasn't grown the way it should. I'm sure there's NBA players are like, why is Stephen A Smith making like, you know, something like that? He's on TV criticizing them, which is a little different. Yes, of course. They don't like that. But do they not recognize, like, how the ecosystem works and how there's probably much bigger prize money for these chess matches now because of what you guys are doing? Yes and no. So, you would think, but Chess hasn't monetized itself competitively anywhere near to the degree that a content creator has. That's the tricky thing. I have the channel. I wrote a book. It's a bestseller. Like, I have my, you know, educational platform. I'm smart about the way I do it, beyond just being like the chess guy. Yeah. Okay, I'm an entrepreneur. Like, I have multiple businesses. I manage like 10, 15 people. Talk your shit. Yeah. Talk your shit. But that's like, that's what I'm always thinking. Like, what's the next big project? What's, I'll continue to make chess successful, but I want to do big, cool things. I want to do productions. You know, I want to do a limited series like on, on a Netflix, and these guys just want to play chess. They don't have big social media followings. And chess historically hasn't had the structure that any of these other sports have. [BLANK_AUDIO] don't even get me started. It's not, it's just nowhere near the same thing. And Chess has relied on eccentric billionaires to fund tournaments. Billionaire comes in and's like, I want to hang out with Magnus. I'm going to throw 20 million at this thing. Let's get all the players here. It dies after like a year or two years. And so that's, yeah, that's Chess. It's, it's weird, man. It's, it's competitively the sport hasn't grown anywhere near it should. Right. But does that paradigm make you want even more to get that GM title? You know, the fact that you have this, you know, your top, you know, 2000, but you're like, man, if I could just be the biggest, you know, content creator and a GM, no one can say anything. Yes. And no, it's brutal. Like I said, I mean, I'm, I'm studying for three, four hours. I show up. Some 11 year old kid is already like better than me. Yeah, no openings. I mean, I got the international master title at 22. And now it's getting broken at 10. 10 year olds are like already. The average nine year old today would be the world champion a hundred years ago. Right. The game has improved that month. Yes, because it's all, it's like knowledge. You just know so many openings. You don't even have to think anymore. More access to information. You can play more games much more quickly. Yeah, imagine a nine year old kid's already played like 10,000 speed games on Chess like. Yeah. I'm think, I'm think kids on Chess.com. I'm losing. I go to their, like, I find their name. I'm like born in 2016. Crazy. Crazy. What the fuck? So a Casper of would get mall today. Not malled, but he would lose shockingly more than he, his aura was off the fucking charts. His aura was very different than Magnus's aura, but his aura was a Michael Jordan, like he'll kill you. I think you know, you have the more him to get reps. You know what I mean? Like, it makes total sense. You're a 22 year old kid in India in 1910. It's like, you have to just play people around you. Who in your village is even good enough to give you some pressure. Now you're connected. Oh, wow, that's interesting. Yeah. India got their first grandmaster on and in like 1980s, 1990s. Now they have like 100. The whole country plays Chess. Yeah. But they had like no grandmasters before or even though they invented Chess basically. Yeah, they did. Yeah. Yeah. So where's it there? But so yeah, where, where does it come from? It comes from India. And there was different forms of the game. Like the Queen used to only be able to move to at a time. Like a hop. Just like little moves like that. Chaturanga. I think these, I don't want to say the wrong thing and then look like an idiot. We'll have to cut it out. But that's where it evolved from. And I think the modern day Chess comes from like Spain, 15, 16, hundreds. They change the few rules. But it hasn't gotten an update in like 200 years. So we just keep at it. And it's kind of cool. It doesn't need any like new characters, new pieces, anything like that. I actually use cash. I actually use it. It is the easiest way to move money around. You're kidding yourself. If you don't agree or you possibly don't have it just yet. And that's why we were telling you about it. 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I wouldn't even trade it to I think the only thing I could trade it for just on like scale is is to be like the world champion. Like Magnus is a bigger star than me for sure, just purely on like name, but no, I blows my mind. I mean, coming here to film. I took a walk today to Starbucks. I saw one person on the on the street because it was sorely and they're like, are you got them, Jess? And I'm like, does feel like that blows my mind. Like I was not born to be a celebrity, but I have like, I'm like, I got five billion views on YouTube. What even is that number? I mean, every short you post his millions of views, which is, but people, people love chess. And I can collab with a big streamer, like the past month. I did a lot of collabs with Jinxie. And you know, you see the the amount of like top of funnel people, new people watching chess every day. Hundreds of thousands. And they just, they just love it. They watch a historical video, video about AI, a video about two idiots playing chess. And they just, they just get hooked. I feel like everybody thinks it's their little secret. It's true. I bet you've been in places. What is that? People don't talk athletes play it. Every day we discover an athlete musician, designer, like entrepreneur plays it, but they don't want to talk about it. Jim Norton was on the pod last week. And he was telling me about like, he would come back from the road and he'd be at the comedy seller and then Patrice O'Neill, who, you know, Patrice is the greatest ever. And he goes, him and Patrice would just play chess until three in the morning. And then he said it. And it was just like, first of all, the second I find out you play chess, I wonder if there's like a, this is a stigma. Most people have like, I assume you're smart. I don't know why. Like, I would always think that Jim and Patrice were smart, but I was like, these guys instead of just like making fun of each other until three and more, I'm sure they were also doing that, but like they're just sitting across a chess board. And I know there's just something about, to me, I was like, what a, what a peculiar thing that they'd be doing. I've never seen anybody bust out of chess board at the seller. >> No, I've been doing it lately. >> You have, yeah. I love this. >> In any case, it's from me. >> No, you really? >> Yeah, yeah. >> I love this will be shocked. In Stockholm, this has happened two or three times recently, so it's top of mind, but I'll be on the street. My wife and I were walking from from Italy. Guy stops me. Two steps behind him is another guy. They both know who I am. They're kind of awkward. And I'm like, you guys should link up. Play some chess. I mean, they both play chess. They were, I like to put people in strange situations like that. And they were both clearly like not extroverted enough to do that. >> Yes, yes. >> People are walking on the street every day. They're at the comedy seller. They're anywhere. They'll play chess. They just- >> Why is it everybody's little secret? >> That, I don't know. I think people are also intimidated by this, not these guys, but like, you know, people who mostly play online, they're a little bit afraid of doing- >> Oh, doing your real life over the board. >> Yeah, but you've been shocked, though. I played a game with Nick Sonneberg. He's a chess kickboxing champion. >> Sure. >> We won gold for the United States as he is. >> Let's go Nick. >> chessboxer. >> But I was playing- >> We went to college together. >> Yeah, yeah. >> I was playing with him at a restaurant. And the amount of people that just came around, just like watch. >> Yep. >> I love it. >> There was a little kid that was having dinner with his parents. He walked over and was like, "Can I play?" And it just became a thing. It's just such a fun social lubricator because everyone comes around. >> Wendy, last year or two years ago, was like, "Hey, anybody want to play chess in Washington Square Park?" >> We did, that's right. >> We did. Before he was the ultra-superstar that he is now, but he just went to Washington Square Park. I was like, I'm like, it's raining, I doubt it. Is this even real? >> What's the best street game in New York City? >> Like, Fortress or Washington Square Park? >> Better than Union Square. >> Yeah, so they're different. Union Square, you pay to play. They're kind of- >> Not sure if you can pay to play. >> You can, but they bet more on the games. Like, five to win. >> Okay. >> Yeah, okay. >> If you win, you get them. Sometimes they'll yell at you and be like, "Get the hell out of here." >> Yeah. >> But yeah, Washington Square Park, a lot of these content creators over the last few years will just go set up shop. Like, they, one guy in particular, I think his name is Johnny. He's in like everybody's videos. >> Yeah, and a lot of them, you know, they've- some of them, like, were ex-convict. Some of them, like, they were in rehab. >> And they found Chess. >> Well, Chess. >> We found Chess. >> We found Chess. >> We found Chess. >> Yes, well, in rehab. >> Chess and prison's huge program, huge massive. >> Okay, so when you're playing against these guys, is that imagine you're playing a bunch? Is there something different about their game? >> Yeah. >> And how so? >> It's like so. scrappy. They don't play anything in the beginning of the game that's correct. Tell me tell me. Yeah, no, it's just like, it's like they'll throw the different language to it almost. Yeah, and I have to kind of, you know, I'm experienced enough that, again, I compared some martial arts. It's like a really scrappy person like, you know, you should watch her. Did you watch her? Yeah, exactly. Yes, the boxer. Yeah. And how Rico fought Usek. Rico was unorthodox. Like, this is kind of like it. And it was really successful. And he was Rob. I'm just going to say it now. But, you know, shout out Rico, man. That was, that was really tough. That was tough to see. But it was, that's the style is that, you know, it's really, really unorthodox. And you have to use what you know to, to sort of carve it up. It's crazy. People were like, this was a mask era. Look, I get into that. What makes it unorthodox? It's basically, it's similar to the trickiness of explaining computer moves. Okay. So the moves that a lot of these guys play are not the best moves, but they're very confrontational. They're very combative. Like, they tie your pieces up. So your pieces are kind of like grappling. And it's hard to know what the best move is because the pawns are looking at each other. The bishops are looking at each other the night. Like, which permutation of move do you play? I can figure it out. If you play basketball against someone that's not that good, but maybe they're super aggressive. Yeah, exactly. Like, you're doing a move because they're supposed to go and then you cut back. Yeah. But because they don't know, like, they won't cut back. So you're just going back into them. Like, that happens in soccer, like, you'll do move and they don't know the move. So they don't bite. And so then you'll cut back into them and lose the ball. You're worse and I'm playing worse because of that. It's like, you play paddle with guys who like come from different racquet sports disciplines. And like, they have immense skill. Yeah. So they can hit shots, but they aren't the shots they're supposed to hit. So you're at a position. Right. So like, I'm in the position for the shot. You should be hitting. And you have me out of position. So I'm scrambling for to get back in position. But you're hitting this other shot that exists in squash or tennis or something like that. And it's somehow effective. Yeah. Oh, that's really interesting. Do you notice a cultural difference? Like, if you play like a Brazilian guy versus like a Soviet guy or a Russian guy, yeah, it's really, yeah. So you said something really good. We were rolling, but I can I quote you please? You were like, chest is one of the few things that can make me racist. I think they should. They got a lot of bits about that. They should hide the flag in chest.com. Exactly. Like you're playing chest.com is 2 a.m. You're going to be by Bangladesh you do. And all of a sudden you're like, what's the slur for them? I said that. It was a camera on him. That's because I lost. All right. Wait till he gives you his Bobby Fisher team. Yeah. No, you're making a it's a it's a good point. It's your Bobby Fisher team. I'm going to cut it out. I saw it as an anti-Semitic team, but it was very fun. It was like just the first line that says, Bobby Fisher, the greatest pattern recognizer in history. Second line. Also hated Jews. It's a rough time to be Jewish. You know, I'm just letting you know, like it's yeah, no, it's but you were saying the different cultures. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How they play? There's a hundred percent difference, especially at club level amateur level, just like people who download the app and just like get playing. So people who are Soviet, like Russia, you know, even Kazakhstan, like some of the more central Asian countries, they play very sound. What does that mean? Like they don't take big risk. They won't open their king. You know, they're going to castle in the beginning, because that's what you're supposed to do. Very professional Soviet school of chess. They'll trade the Queens. They will trade this. Yeah, because like, no danger, no danger. Filipino, Indonesian, ballistic, like completely uncontrolled game. Everything you just watched on a YouTube video, out the fucking window. You're going to get really mad because you're like, they're not doing the thing that I'm supposed to do. They're throwing all the side ponds forward. And the computer is like, why does better? But you're not a computer. You're like, what the fuck is going on? So you get your bishop trapped. Like by ponds, you know, your bishop gets walled in. Yeah, yeah. And then you're going to lose bishop. You're like, God damn it. I just lost the bishop. Like, why am I? And you lose in like 20 moves. They just got to get, they leave the king in the middle. They just bring the queen out, bring the bishop out. And it's bad if you know how to defend it. But that style, like that, there's really like Southeast Asia or like Philippines. I don't know if that qualifies. My geography is not that great. But yes, they're relentless. India, very unpredictable because you have so many cultures. You have so many people. You have so many parts. So you get a lot of that. You get a lot of like really aggressive. But then you also get very proper. Like they know their openings very well. They study. So they'll, you know, the first five, 10 moves, they play super, super well. And on and on, you know. And some, some people will, we'll trash dog. Like when I, when I had to talk shit, I had students playing on trust like I'm back in the day. We were practicing an opening. Guy writes in like some foreign language. We translated it. It's like, make a movie. You fucking bitch. It's like a eight year old girl. Go to school. Translate. And it's like, God, jack off, jack to stable, bro. But that's, you got like a 50 year old man on the other side of the planet playing an eight year old girl. That's just, you know, how would you characterize the American game? Is there one singular way to describe how we play? Yeah, we're, well, if you look at the top rating lists of the United States, it's 90% Chinese and Indian. God, which is just, it's a mix of like, this is the right thing to do for college. And there's a blueprint of previous Asian American girls becoming champions and then going Harvard. Oh, does it help you get into? I think so. Yeah, I think so. Like historically, the best women who end up applying to college in America, they don't pursue chess professionally. They become multiple time US women's champion. And then they go Harvard. It's like being like a rower or something. Like a lot of, any of my friends who have like kids that are trying to get into the IVs, they'll pick these kind of like obscure like white people sports. And like, it's just a catalyst to get into the IV. Like you're not going to become a professional squash player, but like you can kind of get in in that way. And chess works like that. But there's a chess team at the school, or do they look at it as like a reflection of IQ? No, no, they just, they probably want like cool people in Harvard ultimately. And then these talented players know they can't make more than like 100K, 200K a year in chess. So they go to finance. Okay, that makes sense. Whereas the men oftentimes will follow chess professionally and try to get like top 10, top 20, top 30 in the world, which opens up the topic of men's and women's chess because it's arguably the one sport in the world. You absolutely 100% do not need to split them up. That's what I never understood like that in driving. Yeah. Yeah. So explain that. Why do they split them up? And even that, you could argue like the torque on the neck. I don't know. Like the way they try. They're good at their next. Yeah. Damn. And they think they have a advantage, you know? They've been doing what they're supposed to. So chess. It took an hour to make them uncomfortable. It makes you pretty good. That normally goes way fast. And he was just fascinated by the chess. You know, I, uh, chess world is not ready for for shoulder jokes. Like we're gonna get there. We're, we're, we're developing our, our thick skin. Yeah. Uh, no, I mean, I look, I, um, in chess, you have two things. I'm the one you have all women's categories. So women play women. But why is that? Well, that's what number one. Number two, you have, um, if something even more weird, women's titles. So grandmaster is 2500. For women, it's what 2300. It's called women's grandmaster WGM. There's a window grandmaster. Yes, an international master. I'm not a women's grandmaster because I'm not eligible. We haven't progressed that far. But at any point in time, if you want to be a grandmaster, a women's grandmaster, I get, oh, you're above grandmaster. Exactly. You're international master. Yes. So what are you in women? I've exceeded the threat. That's why that's why it doesn't make any sense. You can't even get higher than what you are if you were a woman. The women can get the open titles. Are you an open? Yes, international masters and open title. Anyway, we got it better than that. Grandmaster. What's the best? Well, world champion, but grandmasters the highest time. They're super grandmasters. Is there a woman that can be you on the planet? Yeah, plenty. I don't know. There's a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot. The queen of chess was the. Judith Bogart. Yes. So the Polgar sisters were the exception to the rule. There's queen of chess also on Netflix. She never played in women's events. She only played the open. She got to as high as number seven in the world, which is extremely impressive. I believe that is absolutely something you can replicate, but it is very hard to do that. Did we know that she was in cheating? Yeah, we know. But there's more places to hide the buzzer. Okay, cheese, too. We're on the street. We're on the street here. No, she was not cheating and she said that. No disrespect, Polgar sisters. No disrespect at all. No, I think it starts really young. And you have a you have a daughter. Yes. And you're going to see this when I don't know how old she is, but you're going to see this at four and five years old. Already you have to decide, do I put the girl in code? Do I put a dance? Like where are the friends at? I've heard like at three if you want them to be like a supreme athlete in a specific discipline, you gotta get them started. And it's hard in chess because it's it's stem adjacent and already a lot of girls that age are just not they're not put there either through culture or socially like their friends are not there. They're doing dance. They're doing more of the traditional girls. So you don't think it's any IQ thing. No, I already from that age, it's like 20 to one boy to girl. It's just density. It's like the reason why there's so many grandmasters in India right now. It's like you have two billion people. Yes. And if you're going to have 400 million playing chess, you'll have higher number. And yeah, the whole women sports thing is like the number one one ranked woman in the world is 2,560. And the number one ranked man is Magnus, who is 2850, like 2560 would be top 400 or top 300 in the open category. So a lot of people sit at home go, well, no woman's going up there. Like, obviously, they're not a smart. But if you could be the best in the world and make a solid career because the worse, I mean, it makes sense financially for them. But maybe there's another point where it's like, as you expressed earlier, if you're not playing against the best, you can't become the best. And the game is elevated because you can play so many better people. So maybe it would be more advantageous for there to not be a women's league so that they would play against the men. I think so. It's just really hard to envision how on earth you would even start doing that because if you just abolish it, what happens to the current players, you know, I think it's something that needs to be phased out over five to ten years. But I'm a dude. Like, it doesn't even, you know, it's got to be something that women want. Do they play a little different? Women's games are actually a lot more combative. There's a lot less safety in that draws and, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you mean by that? I could see it being more combative. That's what I think just never admit they made the wrong move. Like, I can see a lot of good thing in chess. You don't even have to argue. It's like go through it. They'll find a way. They'll find a way to argue. Why can't you just go over to your child as prodigious a chess? Like as early as three and four. Really? Yeah, because you're going to see how well they even pick up, you know, if they're picking up the pieces like fairy tale pieces and sort of floating them around, that's one thing. But at some point, like a switch will flip. And if they have a little bit of competitiveness in them of anything, they will like chess. Then you will discover if your kid is a crier. Because you have to let your kid win to be happy. You know, it's like a very delicate act. I've known kids that are really bright, really smart, you know, in all the different subjects. They go to a chess tournament. And again, this unique feeling of like insecurity and failing and they lose and they quit chess. They don't even want lessons anymore. They just like don't want anything to do with chess. It just breaks them. Do you find, like the archetype or maybe the stereotype for the chess player is like, you know, kind of spectra me. Social ability maybe isn't totally there. Is that a gross stereotype that's wrong? Like you're incredibly social. Like your EQ is off the charts. Like I think it's one of the reasons why your content flourishes, right? Like you're really just good at talking and passionate about the game. Are you an anomaly or an outlier or is this like just a bad representation of chess players? No, I think, okay, certainly I'm an anomaly in the sense of like being good enough at the game from an understanding perspective and being probably as like a one on the one to 10 autism spectrum. Seriously. I think a lot of the strongest players in the world, particularly on the men's side are somewhat in very different ways. Then there's people who have like Asperger's and they're like, there's a famous grandmaster from the Czech Republic whose name is David Navara. Extremely nice guy. Very open with his struggles with autism and like how he sort of like lives his life. Now I think he's 30 years old. He can speak like 12 languages, obviously. You know, he can be master at like a bunch of different things, very nice guy. But yeah, I think chess players both at the top and amateur people who are more on the spectrum are more drawn to the game. And even if you're not autistic per se, chess players are on average a little bit stranger. But I think it sort of falls into the category of like magic, the gathering, you know, more gamey type, like, you know, things and women. That's a fascinating question because we still kind of like don't know if there's as much autism or if it's very good at maths, right? It doesn't, doesn't feel like it hits in that much. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, they got a few of them. Like there's a few of them that got it. You know, but yeah, I guess it doesn't feel because Judy Polgar is by far the most normal top player. I like like ever. Yes, she's so nice. It seems like very sociable. It doesn't seem super. Yes. Yes. Magnus got a little bit. Yeah, and even he, like I think I've talked to him about this before and I don't think he, I don't think he's ever gotten a test. He's definitely like, let's say, when you compare to Hihara, maybe a little bit more, but still very, he might just be Scandinavian. Yeah. Right. Like the meme of like, are you German or autistic? And I have met plenty of Germans. And I mean, in many ways, I love it because they're just like, no, no, no, this is a very bad idea. No, no, you even know Joseph. Yeah. Are there other types of like abilities that might be seen in the modern world as like a disability, but actually it's an advantage in chess? Like are there any players that were blind? But because of that, they're able to like see the born in a different way or there's never been a blind or I'm not even sure deaf, like really, really successful player. It doesn't somehow increase anything from the sensory standpoint. But I mean, I have played some, unfortunately, really weird people in my time. And the thing is that you're exposed to this as a kid, like I was playing a tournament in the New Yorker hotel, you know, as a kid. And I'm just walking, my mom would drop me off. I would be like 11, 12 in New York by myself, normal. And then I'd be walking through the tournament and I have a very famous, I remember the guy's name, I'm not going to say his full name, but you know, he's standing and like, you know, walking by, he's like, hey, nice to meet you. I just wipe my ass. Like it sounds like it sounds like I'm just making this up. This actually happened. And I was like, well, I don't know what to do with this information. So like, you know, I'm going to, we used to play at the Marshall Chess Club with this one guy who was a war veteran. Yeah. And that comes with his own set of complications. And he had a thing. He just decided at one point that everybody around him was gay and wanted to have sex with him. Let's get to Premier. And he would, you know, he would, he would insult you at the board. You'd be eight years old. And he would just be, you know, and these people end up getting banned from Marshall. We used to have a Russian guy that used to his when he would, you know, blunder pieces. And he would just be like, I like fucking Voldemort, you know, so many thanks on you. And you're a kid. You're like, what's going on? You know, but you learn to kind of toughen up early and you kind of learn to deal with the social outcast. And do you think there's anything about the game that causes these eccentric sort of characteristics to come out? It's probably just all mental, right? I think it's, it's something you can, a lot of people with ADHD benefit from chest as well, because you can lock it on it. Yeah, but I'm sure it, it must trigger some stuff. And you know, if you have any self hatred or demons and you're already very angry. And do you think chest contributed to Bobby Fisher's like later sort of, you know, psychological issues? It must have, right? Like if the guy worked at the U.S. Coastal Office his whole life, who knows what if that would have ended up being his life. Anyway, I think many people fall into obsessions over their years. It happens to me. I'll listen to my neighbors make noise. And then I just like can't un-listen to it. For other people, that's like, whatever, whatever their obsession is, like they end up hyper fixating and then, and then they go a little, they go a little crazy. And who are the other eccentric characters in like the history of chess that have kind of come out? There's a one dude that's bald. He got like the hair in the back. He died like fairly like 55 or something. I forget his name. Was it tall or? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Oh yeah, sure, yeah. That's how tall is like a legend. He, the thing about tall, chess players used to be way more fascinating. So there's this guy right now. I will answer this. This is a guy Dubov, Russian Grandmaster. He's famous because he always wears Balenciaga sweaters and he can do one arm pull-ups. He's a jack calisthenics like Russian Grandmaster. And he, you know, he, he has famously just been on podcast being like, yeah, I don't really try and turn him into anymore because I'm playing these kids that like have no life. Like I'm straight up playing kids that have no social life, no girlfriend. Whereas, you know, when he was young, he'd social, drink, party, stay up till three in the morning, go and play his games. These kids are like try hard, spelling, beat type of kids. That's sort of the point that he's making. And Tal back in the day was a music, you know, composer, like hero music. He could speak. He would give speeches, you know, about anything. Self-help, you know, politics, anything. He was like a very fascinating artistic guy. He couldn't make himself tea, but like somebody could do that. And this guy was in the hospital, you know, with failing organs, left the hospital, went to play a chess tournament and beat Kasparov. Wow. Before Kasparov was Kasparov. But like, imagine, you know, and then he died. He died like the same year. Wow. So this is the kind of lure Allikyne, the most notorious guy, you know, that video I made that story about Allikyne. This Allikyne is insane, dude. Like I didn't even know how to shit about that video. So I knew a little bit. He was a world champion. He was the first ever Russian-born world champion. Russians ran chess from the 1950s, but he was born in 1897 or something and became the world champion. Then he left the, he left the Soviet Union. He didn't agree with the whole, you know, there was like a Russian revolution. He left, got, you know, went to France and then was a multiple time world champion on the run from the Soviet Union. And then when World War II broke out, he kind of aligned himself with the Nazis so that he could play chess because they ran Europe for five years. And then articles were published with his name, like imagine Andrew Schultz. It's like, yeah, you know, all these other chess masters, they play a Jewish style of chess, like articles with his name and to this day, like there's a big debate, was that actually what he wrote or did they just put his name on it? So the world war ends, he can't play chess anymore, he's banned. He can only play on the Iberian Peninsula and then he dies. And people debate how he died. They don't know if he died because somebody, you know, boys and them, somebody got to him. They don't know which person from where got to him or did he choke on a piece of me? Because that's how he died. >> Yeah, chest players used to be like, wait, more interesting, man, I'll tell us more. This is fascinating. >> Yeah, this is like, do you sound the Bobby Fisher versus the whole Soviet Union? This is a game that was in 1973, maybe? >> Yeah, 72. >> Can you give us a little Bobby Fisher lore? >> Yeah, yeah, Bobby Fisher, first of all, he's born and raised in New York, like I taught a kid born on the same street as Fisher, somewhere in Brooklyn grew up playing chess on the parks here, and really he rose to prominence in the 60s because he was one man taking out from America, taking on the Soviet mafia of chess. So they had- >> So this is like Cold War derivative? >> Yeah, right around the same era. There were several American grandmasters, but he was by far the best. And you know, they wanted Soviet rule champions. Like you had to break into that space, they sort of ran it. He did break into it and dominated. So Magnus right now is 30 points higher than the next person by rating, Bobby was 100. >> So he was like something that nobody had seen in the chess community in modern history? >> And yeah, up to that point. And he understood commercial viability. He refused to play the world championship for $5,000. So his world championship in 1972, I think the prize fund was a quarter million, which was 50 times higher than it had ever been. >> Holy shit, this is 72. >> Yeah. >> Quarter million bucks. >> Yeah. >> And so we're talking about millions today. >> Yeah. And he, it was in Iceland, he was playing Sposkey, it was in Reykjavik. I think like the day before the event, he was like, I'm not going. So to his detriment, he was also a little crazy, he was like, they're going to plant things in my room. There's Soviets, I don't trust them, you know, I, how can one man take on this entire country? >> Yeah, behemoth, you know, and he ended up going. And then there's the story they've made movies about this, and I made a video about it. And he loses the first game to an insanely uncharacteristic mistake, like elementary level mistake. >> Do you remember the move? >> Yeah, he, he like took upon with his bishop in the corner and his bishop got trapped. If you imagine how a bishop moves, it goes to Agil, and if you just close it, it can't come out. >> Yeah, game over. >> Just like totally malfunction mentally, started saying the cameras are making too much noise. The cameras are giving signals to my opponent. The whole thing, threatened to leave Iceland and not continue the match, returned, won the match. >> So he comes back, wins the next one, like wins like six games in a row. Like just blows him. >> Yeah, blows him up. >> And wins the World Championship in 1972. There's YouTube clips of him on talk shows with some of the, you know, the talk show hosts of the 70s. >> He's with Johnny Carson, he has, he has like, you know, there's like tile solving puzzle things, where you have to like make a picture, and then you scramble it. >> Okay, yeah. >> I can solve this in three seconds, and he just, he just solves, and you just practice that all day, just solving these like little pocket puzzles, is that more or less the story? >> Yeah. And there's tons of clips of him going on talk shows, and then he never, he never played another World Championship match. >> Ever again. >> Ever again. 1975, Carp of, from the Soviet Union, Carp of Fisher would have been the biggest match. >> The John Jones in Ghanu of chess. >> Wow. >> Never happened because Fisher, I don't exactly remember the timeline after 1972, but every World Champion who was a star ultimately when they won the title would have demands. They would want certain conditions, they would want to change the price fund, they would want this and that. And the way chess has always worked is, we don't even know where the next World Championship is, or how much money is committed to it. We're sitting here in the middle of 2026. The World Championship is in five months. >> Yep. >> What's gonna happen? >> No, there's bidding going on for it. Our international federation is much better now than it was when Fisher was playing and much better than it has been in many years, but it's still a disorganized mess. >> Yes. >> Like, it's very tricky for them to, it's no FIFA. Like FIFA, I think there's a saying, I think actually Magnus said this. He's like, you can be corrupt or incompetent, but you cannot be both. And so I think that quote is out there somewhere, but this is the major issue is like every World Championship cycle chess has ever had. And by the way, why is it a cycle? Why don't we just have like a tennis system where at the end of every year you have a world number one? But I digress. We very much have a fight system where you don't know who the next challenger is. It's kind of like, who's gonna win? Unlike fight sports where it's sort of like the number one contender or maybe like the biggest draw or whoever agrees to the contractual stipulations. We run a tournament, but we run it once every two years. It's called the candidates and the winner who emerges from this Hunger Games competition challenges for the World Championship. But it's funny because in chess, you could have a guy as the World Champion. For two years, he can play terribly, but he's still the World Champion because he hasn't lost that one. >> That title. And in two years, if he defends the fucking title, just in one match, he's still the World Champion. Even if he's like down to number 50 in the World on the World Rankings. There's a version where I like that because it allows you to take chances and potentially like expand your game throughout the year against elite competition. And then when it really matters, you shut it down. I completely agree with you. Whereas you might have to play safe because you're holding onto the belt. And I think sometimes what happens in fight sports as you know you're a big fight sports fan is like, sometimes you see champions go, I don't want to lose this. And they're not taking the same risks. And sometimes fights get a little bit more boring for champions, boring is whatever. But there's a version where I like it for excitement purposes, but a reign of dominance is also pretty awesome. Yeah. Like you just kind of want to see your champ never lose. >> Has there ever been a massive cheating scandal that was confirmed? Like something where it was, like almost like a Barry Bond style where it's like the greatest guy, then they realize like, oh, it actually was all a fuguay. >> Yeah, not unfortunately, not, I don't think for a world championship. But there have been several, the most famous one historically is Mechanical Turk in like the 17, 1800s. It's like a robot that plays chess. >> Just a dude. >> Underneath that. >> Yeah, she is impressive to me, dude. Trying to play chess underneath the board. >> Which makes me think like the whole thing was kind of, but maybe he like saw the board. Maybe that's yeah, and then he could kind of move pegs or something. >> Which is kind of the inverse now, right? >> Yes. >> We're like, now you have like humans using machines, whereas back then you had humans using being machines. >> And also it's a bit humiliating to cheat now solo. So there's been several, but like the solo act is you literally go to the toilet and there's a phone. So there's a famous picture of a grandmaster from Latvia. I think a couple of years ago who literally just like had a phone and a toilet stall, he's sitting looking at his phone. I mean, this is like ridiculous. A couple of years ago, a grandmaster by the name of Shifchenko put taped a phone in a toilet stall and wrote a note that said in Spanish, because it's certainly not in Spain, don't remove this phone. The guest will get it at the end of the day, which is like ground breaking cheating technique. There have been more sophisticated ones where, and again, you wonder what drives a person to cheat as like a young 20 year old who's kind of trying to break into the top. It's obviously money. He's obviously struggling. I have too much empathy for these things and be like, oh, get him out, get him out, ban him. I'm like, I don't think people cheat like for fun. I mean, he's probably struggling or whatever, mental or financial. And then there was a famous case at the Olympiad where there was a system of three people, a guy watching the game, texting a guy standing around the boards, and then the guy was relaying to the person playing, depending on where he was in the room, like what piece to move. Because a grandmaster doesn't have to know the move. A grandmaster just has to be told, Bishop, and he'll be like, oh shit, that's right. You have to be told the moves, right, and you won't even know why, like an amateur won't know. That's what I was always wondering. It's like, how could you effectively communicate where to place the piece, but at a certain level, you just need to let them know which piece to move and they'll do the calculation of something. And evaluation, yeah, if I'm ever confused about if something is winning or not winning or whatever, it's too dangerous and you just tell me the best moves with the bishop, I'm like, oh, I know the move. We got to bring our boy in from chess.com. Can we get him back in, yeah, go grab him and also bring Max in here. Maybe Max can sit on the couch because we have, so I went to school with the kid who played young Bobby Fisher. That's crazy. And searching for Bobby Fisher. I remember this, this one, I thought we went to PS6 together. We went to Wagner Middle School together, but he surprised me today. I played here. I was in the chess club, by the way, of PS6, dude, I'm just saying, that's where he went. That's where he went. I'm just saying. What a dumb move. Now, if I didn't do that, I don't know where we are in the episode, like maybe you'll see we play a game. But if I didn't do that move, would the play have been consistent where you would have believed it? No, in about five moves that would have been like, something's going on. It was just too pretty. I started thinking, okay, you played in school, you're probably like 1,200, 1,300, 1,300. I've been lied to about your chess level. Well, I try to set you up. So before we played, I was like, hey, listen, I don't want to look like I'm a complete amateur. Like I've been playing since I was a kid and like, I would say I'm a good chess player. Yeah. Hey, Danny. Hey, my boy. You know what's tough about, like because I got my bioage and I'm younger than I am. Is it exactly what you're about to say? Yeah, you're kind of like, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I'm doing great. But I'm not going to stop drinking. God forbid, stop drinking. I age up. He's only younger by a couple of years. It wasn't really that tough. is younger by a lot. I think I was 34. I think you have a revisionist history right now. Am I? Yeah. I think it was like probably like 38, 39. Like only a couple of years. Yeah. I think I was 34. I do remember I was the healthiest and the youngest. So you have any kids. I haven't even married. I haven't changed a thing. I just kept doing what I've been doing. But you're not a fully grown adult. Actually, for a wedding, no sudden thing goes up. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What are you at right now? I'm still at 23. And I feel great. But I did change some things. What did you change? I talked to the AI in the app. And it said, I got one. I'm eating less sugar because my resting glucose was high. That's true. That's true. Don't bring that up. Can we edit that out miles? We were together all weekends. No, I did not. You were eating trace liches like no tomorrow. You don't know how to trace. This is ordered out trace liches that came in a can. You're like ordered it from a restaurant and it's sat there for three hours and you still crush the whole thing. That's the best one. I would. The nice thing about a trace liches is that it could be soggy. Yeah. It doesn't get worse. It gets better. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't know because I don't really do that kind of stuff. But I'm feeling better. And I started taking sillium husk. That's a new thing. I'm on. It's a it's a it's a fiber thing that helps with my like lipids and my my heart. Yeah. I got to learn my LDL according to function. Why are you dressed like guys? Fuck you. I just realized. I don't know why. I had picked up on this. What do you mean? Gucci daddy shorts. No, see, this is what happens. Y'all get jealous of my biohage because I look so young. You're like a fast as young man. I'm looking crazy. No, I feel good and I look better. That's what it is. And I'm and also I can get you. Tell me about your husk. Go whatever. That's like an RFK over there. I don't understand this outfit. Hoke you 10. I'm also taking that. I'll take magnesium to sleep. Okay. Take vitamin B. And then are these impacting your life in a positive way? Sometimes get nauseous if I do an empty stomach. So that's one thing that I've been trying to deal with. But I feel better. I mean, it can't be good for you if you if you can't eat it without food in your system already, right? No, I mean, you got to get a little something there. Not trace laches, but you do like a little couple of eggs in the morning, you know? Yeah. Shout out eggs. Yeah, but you haven't switched anything up. Your eggs are a shit then. Eggs are far. Eggs are so far. Yeah. That probably is why I'm so young. Yeah, because I'll do multiple eggs in the morning. Yep. Hi cholesterol. Eggs do you believe in cholesterol? Now, if you have it, no, bad. You have high cholesterol. That's genetic at there. You're fucking 25 when I cholesterol. No, actually right. High compared to what cholesterol, you need if you're brain. That's one of the predictions. Not the LDL bad one. No, you know, you're right about this. Yes, I'm saying one of my smartest friends said this. He's like cholesterol's bullshit. Thank you. That's all the people who died of fucking heart attack. You guys are now, but that's not from cholesterol. They're dead. Oh, yes. Not from cholesterol. No, it's not. Yes, high cholesterol builds the fucking plaques and then it's no, no, no, no. Take your health advice from Andrew Schultz. I'm 34. Yeah. How old are you? I was 20. Yeah, why are we going to take your advice? Bro, you're 20 years old. I was like 24, 23. Yeah, he doesn't know. I was 23. Yeah. You're 23. Yeah, why are we going to listen to you? You don't know shit. We are a healthy man. I don't. I'm hung over his shit, but I'm healthy. That's a healthy part right now. Yeah, look, we should drink more. If you want to, if you want to, if you want to check your health, the way that we do, function is, function is really just what gave me the confidence I was living a great life. Yeah, all right. Before and, you know, we got 160 plus lab tests a year, $365 a day, basically. And you're just going one time and you get all the data. Exactly. You're just going one time. You're not doing 160 plus tests. They're going to do all those tests. Anyway, the point is, you don't have to guess about your health. You know, if your girls is is nagging you about what you're eating and drinking and how many nicotine pouches you do, you just let her know that your eight years younger than you're supposed to be. Exactly. Yeah, man. What do you want me to be 20? How do you want me to be? Yeah, start to get weird. Exactly. So what you're going to do is go to function health.com/flagrin. Use it called Flagrin 25 for a $25 credit. All right, Bluetooth did it. Well, they did it. They did it. They upgraded. They got Bluetooth gold. That boners coming 15 minutes or less. I could tell you all the info about it. It doesn't really matter to you. What matters to you is that your heart of 15 minutes or less. All the other stuff we're talking about like 30 minutes. A lot can happen in 30 minutes. A lot can happen. You don't even know if you're getting laid 30 minutes before you get laid. Right. So now you're taking this pill. You don't even know what's going to happen 15 minutes before you get laid. You know 100% you're getting laid. So they did it. They knocked out of the park. So that's what you're going to do all summer. You're very welcome. You buy two months of Bluetooth gold. You get the third for free with the promo code Flagrin. That promo code Flagrin. And you're also going to see an additional 10% off free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit Bluetooth.com for more details and important safety information. We thank Bluetooth for sponsoring a pod in the bedroom. Danny from chest.com back in the building. We don't know where we are in the episode. I know that we would already helped me cheat. And somehow we fucked it up together together. Yeah, it's the most epic f up of all time. No, but it was good. It was good thing. So we're talking about like again, like the cheating scandals and how you've had to kind of deal with that at chest.com as it's exploded and people have computers near them. And is it all algorithmically or is it like tattletailing? We have, we have an algorithm, a data, a data approach to what we do. Yeah. And we've been doing that and relying on that for a very long time. Yeah. As the stakes have gone up and were faced with scandals and all kinds of crazy shed and we've seen the, you know, the attention economy blow up where people are making millions of dollars as creators or otherwise. We've invested a lot in other things. So we now have like the software where we observe people in real time, our own proprietary thing that can sync up like what's going on in someone's room with the data. And so we do, we do all kinds of things now to try to protect the millions and millions of dollars. So that's, but it's mostly data. But that's the thing that's interesting. You brought this up is like once there's a financial incentive in something, people will find a way to get the edge, right? Like, and you saw with sports for even more than financial, if you have the whole nation like riding on. That's almost wondering if there's ever been a case where, you know, there's, like let's say Magnus is playing like that champion from like a golf country that has to oil money. Could they pay someone in Magnus's team to be like, Hey, here's $200,000. There's a million dollars. What opening do you think? Well, now you're talking collusion, which is existing in chess for a long time. I mean, Levy's been taking us down a lot of the different rabbit holes of like Fisher versus the USSR. And like there's been, wait, that's the collusion story. So there's been cheating in chess in the form of like pay someone to lose, pay someone to draw, predetermined on the result. There's also been, do you have specific times in history where they tell us when I was eight years old? I'm not even joking. When I was like, we'll get into the more serious ones. Yeah, when I was a, when I was a kid, not exactly the same. I was playing my friend. We were at a local tournament. We both had two points. I was like, you want to just like play as fast as we can and see like who wins and we'll just like split the prize money. And he was like, okay, because I was a very convincing like eight-year-old kid. And I ended up winning and we like split it. And then he went home and told his mom, wow. So his mom called my dad and was like, yo, your son's a fucking entrepreneur. Yeah. So what's funny is like, and we'll come back to that with the Soviet Union thing because the truth is you could argue there's like levels to the offense because those are just two kids messing around. While it was an entrepreneur, a few of us this leader. But the Fisher thing is because he was literally America versus the world. Every one of the top players at the time was a Russian or a state of the Soviet Union. And Fisher would be in this situation where if one of the Russians beat each other and they got ahead, if he even gets a single draw, now he's a half a point behind, everyone else starts losing to the guy who won so that Fisher can't catch him in the standing. So they would lose on purpose. They would lose on purpose to make sure that they're going to win. And they were under pressure from the Soviet Union. And so part of the thing is like, it became interesting that they had to start devising formats. Part of the reason for match play is that the best way to determine a one-on-one kind of monomy model thing is to kind of eliminate the idea that somebody could throw a game. Because in chess, it's almost impossible to detect someone's losing on purpose. >> Why? >> You do have engines now. Just because it's hard, they're so good at controlling it. It'd be like someone shaving points in basketball. But because there's like nobody else even involved in the team where like people would start to go, that was a weird way to handle that possession. Dude didn't swing the ball, didn't run the fucking offense, whatever. And chess, you can throw a game and no one can really say that you did it on purpose. It's very, very difficult to do. But by the way, we don't talk about this one a lot. Even Levy and I don't, we talk about everything. But we also have an algorithm that detects sandbagging. We have an algorithm that detects whether someone is playing below their DNA, not just above their DNA. So we've invested in this, but for a long time, it was just not a thing you could control. >> Yeah, which is- >> And if that is an insulting update to get, I've had friends at it. >> Yeah. You'll get a notice on chest.com, like, hey, we detect that you're sandbagged. Yeah. Dude, I just suck. So there are reasons because we started investing in price events and it's not just money anymore for my magnus, it's money for streamers and creators. There's reasons to cheat of all kinds. And so we've had to invest in that too, but back to the funny thing about the culture of chest though is that even though what those two eight-year-old kids did was wrong and let me just confess to cheating on flagrant. The culture of the game has been starved for money that the other way to look at that is to Soviet grandmasters who weren't at the top, weren't being treated like kings. They're starving. They have families to feed. They show up and it's like, dude, if you beat me, the other guy who's already half a point ahead of you is going to win, but if I beat you, like, I'll make sure I'm at least tying that guy because I have his score, so we'll split the prize money for sure. And so a lot of it was like a broken sport, no commercial viability, guys who are starving. And so I sound like I'm a cheating apologist, but I really understand the mechanism. Yeah, I understand the mechanism. And I don't think it's totally fair to put everything in the same box when the truth is the game has been sort of out of whack for a very long time in terms of the amount of money coming in versus the amount of money being distributed to players across the world. >> Is it still as representative of patriotism today? It really is. Do you have these country rivalries that exist on the app, or is it now there's just so many players and now there's other things that the countries are competing on? >> I think it's both. I think let me touch on the fact that there's, okay, well, people revere chess for whatever reason, like billionaires still just, they just want to fuck with Magnus, they just want to hang out. >> That's what I was asking about, yeah. >> And so you had this weird culture of not just, I touched on the billionaire thing to get to the government thing, which is a lot of the money that is flowing in to the young Indian contingent. And the young Uzbekistan, there's a number of top players who are young Uzbeks who are on the rise. A lot of that money is coming in from government funding because they want to be associated as the country with the most intellectually elite competitors on the planet. And so I think there is something to the national pride. And then on Chess.com, I mean, you guys are joking about how you play someone with a flag and suddenly you find yourself like you made everybody from whatever, right? And so there is, I think, there's a lot that can happen and we actually don't like that our platform sometimes can be involved in Geo, Geopolitical, whatever. But the truth is, I think people revere the idea of being good at chess because of the association they have of whatever being smart. >> Yeah. >> I mean, beating a guy from Ukraine in the middle of a war, you feel bad. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Man, I should just give him this one. >> I actually feel like when I play the Ukrainians, I'm like, they're going to be tough. They're going to be resilient. I play, yeah. And I mean. >> Why don't you like, don't you guys have something else to be doing right now? >> Make some drones or something. >> Well, sometimes we're down time in war. >> Play them for an hour, give a chest, like something happening. >> I mean, the best, so there was a grandmaster who played for many years for Lavia. He's actually Ukrainian, Igor Kovalenko, and he straight up went to war. He's a 2700, very good player, like Perennial top 40 in the world. He straight up went into the barracks. He had a helmet on. He was like, he was with the gun. Like, he was with the soldiers. It's nuts. I mean, over the last few years, yeah, there have been reports of a famous chess coach or a famous chess player just straight up dying in the weather. >> Holy shit. >> Yeah, it's crazy. It really is crazy. Sharks, China didn't have more of a chess kind of revolution because they held on to, they still have the Women's World Champion, the best player in the world. And then they had Ding, who won the World Championship against NEPO in 2023. And at some point, they had both the men's and women's gold medals as a team. So they swept. I was like, here comes the, they have Chinese chess, but they're going to, you know, they're going to dominate. Look at it. No, it really doesn't go. It takes up some of the talent. >> I do think it is. >> Let's go. >> It's partly because of that. In black tile, like territorial game. >> Oh, it's a, okay, okay, okay, it's another report strategy game, but it's super popular in China. >> Yeah, got it. Yeah. >> Similar to the chess became a state sponsored sport in China, not dissimilar from the Soviet Union when it was funding chess. And so China went from like zero chess culture to two decades of having, you know, dozens of grandmasters in the top 15 of the world, Ding, the World Champion. Hoey Fawn has been the best women's player in the world since due to Polgar. >> And she went to Oxford. And so it was interesting it's China really invested. They established or achieved their goal to some degree, and it hasn't sustained in a way worse India. It's like, it's the mother, it's the birthplace of chess had nothing. But now it's like, we're going to, it's going to be India's world and the rest of the chess players are living in it for a very long time. >> Can the country have a competitive chess program if it's not state sponsored? >> It's a good question. I mean, I don't know. >> Does America sponsor it in any way? >> No. >> So to work backwards, do you want one or two prodigies from a country or do you want like dominance? >> Like a dynasty. >> I wouldn't even say dominance a dynasty. I would just say like a significant population of elite players. So they don't have to be one or two, but you would have a few hundred people that are competitive from that country. >> Yeah, yeah. It's definitely possible, but it's definitely limited to like United States, you'll get maximum five from all of South America, Africa, chess is really not that big at all there. And like the same goes for maybe the Caribbean. Australia, no, like that part of the world, no, it's got to be like really Europe, you know, essentially. >> What goes back to what Levy was saying earlier is that the chess world is broken financially because the amount of money flowing in is not representative of the commercial viability of the product, meaning, you guys are making it all. We have a subscription, we have a business that's built on people who want to get better. So we actually invest heavily in chess as a media IP and build a content network ecosystem with creators and partnerships. And we invest in professionals because they all provide reasons for Mark to want to get better at chess. And then he's inspired by Magnus and he watched a Levy video, he's like, fuck, I'm going premium on chess. So we invest in like essentially a loss leader for the idea that we believe chess, you know, we do believe chess is good for people better than most games. And that mission is fueled by the investment we make in the professionals. But it loses money. What I'm getting to is like. >> It's like having a store on Fifth Avenue. >> It's like having a store on Fifth Avenue, right? But the brand gets the brand of chess. Most people find their way to chess.com, even though there are a lot of other places. And so the reason you kind of need a government program to your point is that you have to be investing fake money. And fake money can either be philanthropic or it could be corrupt. But it's not representative of the commercial viability of the game. And so whether it comes from the old USSR or Gazprom or Kraspursky or something. >> Or some benevolent billionaires. It's still not representative of the fact that not enough people are watching the game. The players are not investing in themselves enough. The biggest stars on the planet are not the best players in the game, which is great. But then the players present the biggest stars on the planet. >> Of course. >> Because he's making more money than them. Or the boat test sisters are making more money than them. And so I think we're at the beginning of what I hope is like. And 20 years people look back and go like, that was a short period of time before we had some major breakthroughs. And chess was inevitably going to get on ESPN and these things. Because the content creators helped lead the way. That's my hope. >> Yeah. >> Here's the thing I wonder, right? Because poker had this huge come up. I remember this movie "Rounders." Do you remember that? Like Edward and Matt Damon, when we were kids, do you remember that movie? >> Yeah. You guys are older than me. So I never seen "Rounders 30." >> You never seen "Rounders 30." >> Oh, you never seen "Rounders 30." It was probably just missed you by like five years, just like that. But like before "Rounders," after "Rounders" come out, the poker tour and hold them just like absolutely explodes. And now it's not as popular as it was. But like there was a moment where it was just like all over ESPN and you hear these like characters. Chris Moneymaker, The Way Old Bronson or whatever. >> And who's a master? >> I don't want to cut you off. I thought poker also blew up on TV when they started showing the cards. >> Well, so the way that they shot it was good. And then they kind of like golfified it is what I would say where it's like you don't need to follow every shot. You need to follow the important shot. So it's like you have 200 people playing and you're just focusing on that one hand where the river card comes out and the guy was not supposed to win wins. Now it just seems like this explosive, exciting thing. There's a version of like what I see you when you're calling these games, you're taking the most interesting games and you're speeding them up. >> It's cut down. >> Cut down one move after another. But in order for commercial viability for the players, you need audience and they neither need to fill up stadiums or you need it to be streaming on something. So how do you make it interesting to be streamed is a tricky one? >> And that's kind of what we're working on now. And Lovey's point about the pocket camera is only really relevant to chess because what that did is it gave the viewer more knowledge than Phil Ivey, it gave the viewer more knowledge than Phil Hillmuth. And what that does is it puts you on the edge of your seat because you're like, fuck, he's got jacks. But he doesn't know that she got the third aid on the river and he's going in, right? And so now you don't turn away and we have been unable to do that with chess to some degree we've been trying. I've invested in it. I've called it like to the team, I'm like we need to make chess with no sound where you can look at it and like you're in a bar and you see who's winning and you have instant context like you can with a sports game. So we've tried to invest in how to graphically tell the story, how to bring that to life, how to do our pocket cam of chess, which is we've done this evaluation bar where at least you can look at a game and go, ah, whites better, blacks better because I quickly get this [BLANK_AUDIO] text of who's winning. So we're working on that. But then the last point to your, I think the most important point is stories. Like people have to give a shit emotionally. >> Well, they'll do that with you guys building up the characters. I think that that exists right there. But also like there's almost like a GPSification of the game where it's like once you get deep into a game, there's only a couple moves that make sense. And those moves make sense to like different percentages, right? Like I had that huge blunder obviously. So like doing that would take you or if we're looking at like GPS as a metaphor for it, like that would take you way out of your way for victory. But there's a version where it's like moving your rook here gives you an 80% advantage on that evaluation metric or what you were saying. >> Yeah, I was going to make a point about the previous point, but make it, make it. And I will, we're living in fascinating times and sports where we are seeing the athletes now have come from money and been descendants of players. We NBA classic. >> Yeah, NBA, tennis, I Google a player, I've never heard of in tennis. Father is a hedge fund manager, billionaire, all of them, like played and won like two grand. >> Right, yeah, more like both parents were athletes. And there are some sports where this is not quite the case. You still see a lot of rags to riches stories in fighting, but you also see it in like soccer a little bit more. And baseball and hockey also it's regional, it's climate, it's when you're born. And it is something you have to start young and you have to buy the equipment. Chess barrier to entry is like zero. I mean it's very, very little. And so we see parts all over the world where you can have massively strong young contingent of players with a budget of like $100 for like thousands of kids, just get these chess and resources now are much more available than ever for improving. And if state sponsorship thrown into the mix messes a lot of things up because you have kids from India and Uzbekistan who might be becoming like millionaires at 19 and 20 tons of resources. And every top player in the country is plugged into making them better. And so there's this big rise whereas in the United States, you know, you got for example, Abhimanyu Mishra, Indian American kid, he became the youngest grandmaster ever at 12. They, they, I mean, they really tried to break that record. That's the thing in chess. None of these youngest ever records are accidents. The parents take them out of school. Like you got to try to break the record. Yeah, your life. He doesn't have a single major commercial sponsor in the United States. Why not? Maybe like you don't know. I don't know if it's a mix of they haven't been offered or it has to be either it hasn't been offered enough or there's tough to work with. Why did chess.com get involved with them? So now you're hitting on the next point, which is the problem with the lack of commercial viability is the only profitable even though we're a big company. We're very profitable. The only profitable company capable of sponsoring has no reason to do it because everyone's on our site. There's no reason. There's no marketing kind of philanthropic at their point. And so we do have a few sponsorships. Some of them are more philanthropic. We invest in a lot of after school programs. We do all kinds of work and we have a scholastic side and we do the things that grow the game and give back. But on an individual sponsor letter level, I don't really need chess.com's logo on your shoulder, right? Like not in the same way, right? And so it's it's tricky. Like I've always been telling the players and levies for me to give this speech many times. So forgive me, levied, but I'm like, guys, like I don't want to see just calm on your arm. I want to see fucking Delta and American competing and annex and visa competing over here. Let me be your partner. If you can invest in yourself five fucking seconds, I will, I will go a mile towards you, meaning give a little bit of effort on social media and we will invest in your team. We have the staff. We know how to do this stuff. We have helped build and support creators. Like this is our game and it's very frustrating because I mean, I was giving even more. We're debuting a film at Tribeca this week, which is a show called Grandmasters, which is our drive to survive for chess. We've been filming this documentary for two years. >> At the time of this recording anyway, this is around Tribeca. So sorry for that. At the time of this recording, we are premiering a film at Tribeca. It's a three episode mini series drive to survive. It was so difficult to get very few of the players to cooperate with this. Even though they just don't understand that drive to survive didn't add crooked numbers to F1. It added zeros onto the industry in value, right? And they're very short-sighted also because, not only the short-sighted, maybe because they're uncomfortable on media, they don't have as much experience with it, but also back to the point about it being commercially out of whack. What is their reason? Many of the top players are actually getting very good high six and low seven figure salaries for doing nothing because the amount of money going into the game from fake money from benevolent billionaires and governments that are out of whack makes the young Indian guys like, I hear you chest.com and Danny, you give a good speech about how you want delta and amics, but I don't really need this and I'm just going to keep playing chess. >> So we're always back to the square one of like, how do I trick these guys into doing something good for them? How do I trick these guys? >> Why not have a creative agency that you sign certain players soon and then you just outsource all that? >> Yeah, we need like a CAA just for chess. >> Yeah, or just like a marketing agency, then you go like, hey, listen, if you guys want to do it and they're going to build out all your socials and find things that are authentic to you. >> Yeah, they would maybe, but it's even hard when you show them the value. I'm not going to name any players, but I've had like one-on-one conversations like, hey, you sure you don't want to put this microphone on and talk for like 10 minutes and they're like, no, I respect it. >> There's a purity to it. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Or like a sub stack or like some type of way they could just get their ideas out. Like if they're uncomfortable talking. >> Yeah, but I think Andrew's right to be, we need the marketing agency to do the work for them. >> Yeah, you just need out, sort of. >> What about a world cup? >> Like I know that there's obviously international tournaments, but like is there a version where it's like, hey, the best five Americans, best five Indians, best five, two hands? >> Yeah. >> We have the Olympia, it's every two years. Even that, it's hard to, chess doesn't market itself well enough for that to be an event that people look forward to every year. chess also has this like unique thing where even though it's a sport, you play it and you follow it and it's part of your life and you play it with your kids, like it's tailor made for like watching and knowing when everything is happening, nobody watches or knows when anything is happening. >> What is the impetus for watching? Like we have to, I think the thing about the world cup or the Olympics is so interesting is that we'll watch sports so we don't care about simply because there's patriotism attached to it, right? So watch curling and we really love America. America's going up against cannon and gun. >> Yeah. >> With chess, you actually have an investment in the sport, people love the sport. Now they know the characters. Maybe we just have to find a way where it's digestible on a TV. >> You've done it? I mean, we're on track. >> Yeah. >> And I think, you know. >> Well, what is the best way? Like what is the most digestible photoshop? >> I think we're dealing with cut downs, actually. >> Yeah, so well, here's the thing, like the way it works now is I would imagine if you take an entire pool of people that are going to watch the world championship, which is our big thing or whatever, my recap is going to drop for the first day. And that's when 90% of the audience that didn't watch live is going to go, oh fuck, it's good. I didn't even know this was happening. Now they're going to tune in every single day live and also maybe more generally to catch the post. I just found out, French Open was going on some week or two ago. It's on the TV every morning after I watched, like, whatever, first take or like some sports highlights or anything. This is there. I mean, I'm going to tune in and watch it on mute. That's the thing. I'm going to watch it on mute on the smart TV in the middle of the room. I'm going to be like, oh, Jay Aliyah seem is like playing. Sinner is playing. Joke of it just playing. Oh, I see the score. I can watch chest is like, I don't know what the hell is going on. Because with it off, no one's explaining anything. The board is this big. The player is this big. >> Yeah. >> And then like, how long is this going to take? You know, this is going to take two hours, three hours. What's the clock situation? They get more time? >> Yeah. But it's the most interesting part of the game. Like obviously it's not watching the guy's heads thinking. That's not fun to watch. What is the most, what I found was the most interesting part is like when you were doing these breakdowns, it's, it's Alachon, that Alachon versus Babaloo or something. >> Yeah. >> What was the guy's name? >> Bogaloo buff. >> Yeah. >> What are you doing this thing about like him sacrificing his queen? And the way that you were speaking about it is he would get the pawns the other side. He would get queen again. He'd sacrifice it again. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And every time he'd like slowly bully him into the position. And to me it felt like watching a crazy hand of hold him. >> Yeah. >> But the benefit is that he already has a story. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> And he's doing it, having known the game. >> Yeah. >> That's the exact point. >> Yeah. >> I hope we're really starting to break through with the pocket cam and then back to the countdown theory. First engineered the hands to focus on because they know who won and they're telling the story of who makes it to the final table. We are preparing to do this is what we're trying to do with this drive to survive thing, the thing that we're premiering. So I believe on the precipice of finally figuring this out. And so in some ways, because I couldn't get the players to cooperate or we couldn't coordinate on what the best live broadcast was, I was like, I had this, I had this bickering dysfunctional family. Let me just bring the cameras in and make it a reality TV show. >> Right. >> Because instead of trying to fix the problem, let's just, so a lot of this show is super dramatic. It's a lot, it's like behind the scenes, it's raw and it's arguments about this problem. And it's because it was like, well, if you can't fix them, join them, right? >> Yeah. >> Join the dysfunction. So, but I think the cut down and then I'll bring this up only because I know earlier you were saying you hated the clock. The second most exciting thing about live chess is when people are under time pressure. >> Yeah. >> Because when someone's making moves and you see, so Levy does a great job at the cut downs. You know the story. You find the highlights. You focus on the sacrifice. You tell a great tale. And live chess, honestly, the two most exciting elements are the two things off the board, which is when someone is low on time and they're freaking out. And now the Eval bar. So it's equal, Magnus makes a move, because he was about to move some time, makes a move, and the Eval bar drops. Like, oh shit, he blundered, is Goukesh gonna see it? Is he gonna lose? Goukesh moves, because he's only got two seconds, Eval bar goes up, like, fuck, he missed it. >> Yeah. >> That drama has really changed live chess and has helped us a lot. So I think when people start seeing that on TV. I'm hopeful. That is going to be like people like, man, this is more exciting than we thought. Along with hopefully some of the cut down approach that what's the quickest game you can play? The quickest in theory is you can play like 30 seconds per player, but that's online one minute per player. How fast does that game go? It's a very fast minute. It's great. It's great. It's great. My whole favorite is bullet on the computer. I, you know, you just boot up a game in like a minute and I've gotten to 3,100 on chest.com in that and like 3,000 in speech as four hours of a game I can't, like I can't do it. What is one minute per player? One minute per player. Like so you have one minute for all the total moves you can make in the entire game. So you are predicting what that person is going to do if they don't do the thing that you predict they're going to do. You still have to make. I have to adapt. Yeah. Is there a way like, forgive me for, I haven't seen, you know, all like the major broadcast, but is there a way to get it over the table and then like AI or just a visual representation of all the possible moves? That's what I was thinking with the GPS. I like that. I like that. I like chess. I like chess. So like, I don't know if you see anything we did. We were probably early, it's like five years ago that our approach chest league championship we held in San Francisco. I tracking technology was like breaking through. And we hooked up the players with an eye tracker so that you could get like a heat map of where they're focused. You could see what they're trying to calculate and we leaned into it as best we could. But the truth is the tech was kind of clunky at the time. And nothing feels weird. And then like leaning into a storyline where you find out, oh shit, the tracker was broken. And then like, you know, now you're like, I fuck, I'm not going to lean on this tail. But I do think the combination of like AI, like heart rate, dude's nervous eye tracking. There are ways that I think the future is probably bright because what are we trying to do? We're trying to bring what's in a dude's head out. Yeah. And that's many ways why chess was built for people like levy in the digital age because one of the things about the online presentation of the game is now levy can save a thing he could never say in front of a person because he would be distracting them or rude. So he's just like talking shit. He's having fun. He's singing a song. He's making, he's making jokes. And so chess in some ways was like was kind of born for the streaming revolution because of all the things about it that you want to know that you haven't been able to know. These guys can now open up and talk. So anyway, yeah, I just think it's an interesting like if I'm watching it live and assuming there's a clock and so there's now we're, you know, condensed on time. If it's like, okay, here's the possible options he could play knowing the way he plays. And then almost then you see all the lights light up and you see the board light up and you say if, you know, his queen can go here, here, here, here and then showing the optimal moves that the queen can make versus the sub optimal. And then having the commentator talk through all the possible moves. Oh, I think he will just go ponny. And it's like football. It's like that. I just cringe right now. Tony Roma's there. It's like, okay, it's third and three, you know, they guys, you're probably going to run the ball, if I'm going to run this sweet play. And then you see them do it. And everybody goes, holy shit, Tony Roma is. Yeah, yeah, fucking shit. No, you're right. The half the content is them debating what they're going to do. Not what they actually do. It's then like trying to think. And that's interesting for the casual like me. Like I, that's what I liked about how you were explaining that moment. Like I needed you to present to me why it was so interesting because I don't know. Can you just scream the rock every time? How do you put this into 30 seconds? This I, this I'm not sure. I'm going to figure out here. When you make it, when you're doing, oh, good, you did you get it? You just, when you do a 30 second game, are you getting to the end of the game? Are you getting to a checkmate? Or is it often you just run out of time? Online, both you can make enough moves theoretically because when you pre-move online, you set a move to play automatically like, could you just what my ass real quick when we both do 30 seconds, but I'll actually try to win. Okay. Yeah, try to just get your pieces out as fast. You can't. All right, ready? Yeah, you got it. Hold on. I'll set it. And I just go. Yeah, you had to make a move first and then post block. Oh, Jesus. I need to lose a second. Okay, that's just supposed to push about. Love the commentary. Now, let me pull those in the night. This is interesting. He's defending that point. Shell's going for a form of checkmate because he thinks I'll ask bring it. No, but I also have other things that I could do here. You know, lose one time, though. That would be, then I could be like, I'd be Andrew Schimmels in the same incentives. What I'm, what I'm putting you to video title, you know what I'm saying? Okay. All right. Love you. He opens the center and he's got tricks on putting pressure. They're reading the center. This is interesting position. Oh, man, he's good. Man, he's good when I'm not playing with anybody that's helpful. And he's good. He's good. He's good. A lot of people think it has to do with how smart you are. No, that doesn't. A lot of good chess players are morons. That's true. Okay. Is that right? I had to right? That was actually pretty good. You got 50 seconds though. Oh, shit. Okay. But I'm going to start getting some pieces moving. Yeah, I got to start getting some pieces moving, right? Another fun thing would be me and Danny playing 30 seconds us against each other. That would be, I'll show you like that. That would be the case. Oh, maybe we have to do that weekend immediately after this because you're going to just think it end up losing on time. That's what I'm sorry. I don't know why I did that. What a fucking dumb of that was. You're still okay. Jesus. Oh, yeah. That's tough. You're in check right there. Maybe one. I'm in check. Yeah, check. Yeah. You only have one legal move. He forked your rope. I have one legal move. All right. I can't go here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have one legal move. Oh, that's actually stopping what I wanted to do, which is annoying. And I can I can't castle. No. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Okay. But you're going to end up losing on time, yeah. Danny and I looked at each other and we thought you were going to go here just keep running. And I have this really sick checkmate. And then it's over. Yeah. Because your queen is cutting these squares on the night. That's that one. All right. Let me play that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's addicted. I love it. Yeah. That's going to be good. Because you know, even us like this is so much fun. I have a speed. The speed game really. Yeah. I hope that's the job. Yeah. And that's because you're not wrong that like the best chess is the best chess is not speed chess. It's not because you're I want you to play one minute or a pause there. And I feel like one minute. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's at least we get. It's not just going to be yeah. Physical speed chess is really because you're going to end up just like smashing into like each other's hands and knocking over pieces and which you really shouldn't knock over pieces in the tournament and then press the clock. It's like bad etiquette. But if you're playing online, the speed is like unbelievable. I mean, the thing is a disrespectful move. Like the legal way you've done is yeah, when I get tilted. Yeah. When I get tilted online, I play I play this. I play the diamond opening. I go boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Because I want to beat somebody four moves down. Like basically my opponent's going to get like four optimal moves and I have this and I'm just going to win because that's the best setup. Yeah. You want something like that? That's a great way. If you can controlling the center is is the best. Okay. Let's let's let's not. I don't want to give that today. All right. This is going to be this is going to be fun. Danny beats me in most exhibition. But again, we haven't played in a while though. This is why to move opens up in the middle. Oh, Kiro Khan here. This is unbelievable. Yeah, but this is levies. This is levies. It's a great stuff. And he captures a night there too fast. Okay. I don't remember what I'm supposed to say. Oh shit. Levies lost the one. What do we got? Hey, we're okay. No, this is going to be just a big old, a big old psycho. We have to get over the board. Oh my goodness. We're looking to trade rocks. It seems like. Oh, yeah. Well, Evie doesn't go for it. Evie wants more. Yeah, there we go. Fucking flying all over the board here. I'm just going to come back. Oh, Danny, Danny starting, Danny starting the old man starting gone wine. This is this is the Russian technique and game. Here we go. Oh, my. Can I just trade you and win the king upon it? We're going to find out. But. Oh, my God. All right. Both kings are dead center. So online, I like when we agreed to the draw because we were, you know, sportsman, we got sportsmanship. I had 15. He had 12 seconds. So he would, he would just move and try to fly. And then at some point because there's a progress rule in chess, you can't just like shuffle around for 50 turns. If at 50 turns, nobody pushed upon or captured anything, it's an auto draw. And that's how you define progress. Yes. So at some point, I would have tried to like, you know, go for this. But the idea is that if he takes, I take this pawn and then you have a one. Yeah. But then like if he's here, then this is just stupid. I'm going to like end up losing it. How many of these calculations are happening? A lot of it is, it's like, it's like pattern recognition. Just because we played something very similar, even if not exact before. So we're relying on on intuition, right? I think I forgot what I was supposed to do. Actually, there was a really sick moment where I saw it. are really crazy pattern Danny could have played. So when he went here and I'd say Danny, you can play C5. - Oh, and a big one. - Because this is a, it's like I have no legal moves. So what do I, like this would be a draw. It would be stalemate normally. I have no, but I have to push these points. - So he's gonna lose. - So I'm gonna end up giving him this. And then I'm gonna end up giving him, and then here if he takes me on person, like 'cause he can take me diagonally, he does this and now I have a legal move and now I'm gonna lose 'cause my king's just strapped. So when I was like holy shit, that might actually happen. - I, yeah, but like I saw that. I saw that in half a second. And maybe I have to see if you could've played King B5. - Yes, yes, yes, yes. - I have a way out, but I was like, oh my God, what did I just do? - Yeah, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got. - Give me my equal anyway. - Is this a different skill set this quick game? Like are there certain people who are built for this game? - Yeah, I think the, so the gap of the best players is still close, meaning like someone who's like 1200 can't beat Magnus, even if they're a very good bullies player, right? You still have to be a top player, but there are people who are better at the faster time controls. And, and a lot of them like they, they play it more or you know, they're just better on their feet. The Magnus likes to say that the faster time controls challenge more of the sporting elements, which is like your nerves, like you're, you're, you know, how you deal with being surprised, you know, being surprised, right? Emotions and things. So I think that the longer the time control, obviously the higher quality of the moves, some people say the lower the time control, especially if the chest is still good, like more of the sporting elements come out. - Interesting, yeah. - Okay. - I also would have played the game much better on my phone. I'm like so much more used to playing at the speed on my phone that's here. I'm like, I don't know what, like I can't process what's happening, but on my phone I'm like, oh, you can just pre-move and things like that. - Yeah. - Oh, wow. - So here we go, ready, set, oh shit. What am I doing? - Go ahead. Oh, I'm taking it out. I have played this plenty. I am now slipping, which is where you're not gonna have. - Okay. - All right. - Okay. - That's a nice little tempo there with the knife. - A little double tempo, you're right. Okay, now this is gonna get really funky. What in the world are we doing here? Oh my god, Danny, how are you not just like lost? - I don't know. - Immediately. What is this? - I should have already lost this game, but I'm barely holding on. - You're surviving. - That's great. What's? - Look at this. - There is no fucking chance. - Protects the night. - Wow. - Oh my god. - Wow. - I'm blundered. It's funny, and bullet up like, barely touch moving the piece. Oh wow. Oh my god, Danny, what is this? - What is this? - Oh. - Queen. - Wow. - No. - I can't move my eyes. - Oh my god. - He got himself in trouble. - I'm in the open. - I'm in the open. I don't know if it was cool though. - Yeah. - I hit him with a really not like, when he brought his queen in, it was very scary for my king, but I had to think for like three seconds. If I take this pawn, our queen sees each other, and then my rug guards my queen, and then my knight can take with check, and then like, so I had to think for, and then then-- - This is almost too fast. - Yeah. - Like for mainstream. - And again, I'm your most casual consumer. So like think of me as like the casual chest consumer. I'm blown away watching it, but I still need that. I need that like posthumous reflection on the game. I need you to show me like what move changed this, and how you do it like. Again, I'm just thinking of this, like how do you get a casual to watch it? The speed is scintillating. Like I can see it's watching this at a restaurant. Why people would run over it? - What the fuck? How are they thinking this fast? How they calculate these things? - Even the end game of a 10 minute game can get to this level of speed, right? - Yeah. - No, you're right though. Indeed, this is, this is almost too far. - How much time do we have? Can we increase to two minutes? Not to like keep throwing you at each other. I just want to find like the time where you guys have enough time to think, and then we get to kind of consume. - This sounds like the marketing agency. It's like, dude. - Yeah, that's all I know about this. - Yeah, this is great. - I thought you had stuff to do. I don't know what I'm gonna do. - I got no world signal. - Show me the means on the way here. So once he comes here, I gotta go to the other room. Do you need to switch any cams or anything like that? - No, I brought my own, just put them in there. - And you put them in there, so we're ready to go. - All right, well guys, this has been got them chest. Just.com, let me be a daddy of the billy. Thank you guys so much for being here. We got one more game. We're doing it right now. - Let's do it. - Let's set it up. - You prefer to be black side? - No, I just set it up because we were just kind of nothing. - Is there a preference as they're like an advantage to one another? - White is typically, white is better than black, like 56% at the time, but it's close to equal, but white usually wins just a little more than black. 'Cause you get the first move. - Got it. So you can kind of set the tempo. - And so white often is setting the tempo, choosing the structure, choosing the opening, and so. - That's also how I play. I try it with wine, I try to get what I want. - It made me fast, yeah. - Okay, all right, so now we're at two minutes. - Two minutes, we got a little bit of time to think. Here we go. - All right. - The Schultz focus group of how to get chest televised right here. - I'm loving it. All right, he's got, he's playing beef free. This is like, it's like non-standard, you know? - Yeah, this is weird to develop your bishop and not your other pieces. But Danny's got very sophisticated like style of chest that he plays, and it's actually kind of annoying, like. - I was raised by old Russians, so. I've got like a old school way that I play. - And correct me, you can play quickly out of the opening because these lines are fairly memorized. But once you get into the middle end game. - Yeah, it starts to get, you gotta calculate. It starts to get a little messy at that point. - The further the game goes, the more original, the moves are, the game is just right. - Even here, we could spend a little time on these decisions, but I don't know how much time. - Yeah, 'cause it's a tricky, it's a tricky amount of, okay, so we're both in weird positions now that we don't know. I'm just targeting his two points. He knows that and has to play something like that. - So this is where we need-- - Defending the room. - You need a layman like me, that knows almost nothing so I can beat the audience, and then you need somebody that knows everything. - I can comment on this, it's like playing a screen to show his queen can go here, we're here. - That's what I was saying. - And then GPS, like showing lines. - Like the chest up board that I have, when you put your finger on the piece, the whole thing lights up the way it's here. And then you need to know, like, bed 365, official bedding partner, just like that. - Does no one have a sponsored glove? - There's no, it's crazy in chest, there's no sponsor, like primary watch sponsor, which is by far, that there should be, like, primary glasses sponsor, like absurd, you know? I won't even name the brand Levy Wears, 'cause I know it, but it's, but yeah, I mean, - A fingerless glove with a logo on it. Like, and over the hand thing, you can see every move. It seems so obvious. - Okay, so I'm gonna be asking you questions as you're doing it. Can you, and you're not gonna divulge too much, right? - No, I mean, I can, like, I'm like expand, you know, I'm expanding on this side of the board. And, you know, Danny's attacking my rook. I slide it up, he's, you know, he's doing this, so he activates his rook and gets him on this side. I'm up a lot on time, so I have to make a decision, like, am I gonna go for like a crazy attack? Am I gonna just, you know, suffocate his pieces? I forgot that you wrote a lot on time. Actually, you said that. I think he almost hung his rook then, that would've been sick. - Oh, no, no, no. - Of course you're not, not ideal for me. - He's trying to distract him. - Sorry. So that's a defensive move with the, - Yeah, I'm fine. - With the, like, over here. - Defenses pawn. Like, make some progress. Oh my God, that's pretty annoying. Oh, what is happening? When night is, my night is wandering. - Put some in there, going to the dessert. It's not good. Yeah, his night is way back here. It's just over here. - It's just, it's just busted. - Yeah. - I'm gonna queen it. - It's hard to, like, I can't commentate, and I resign because I'm losing my rook to the new queen. - Yeah, and I'm just down to rook. - But basically, the way I would've commentated is that, like, I'm up upon, so that's like better. So I have to convert that now. Plus, you know, the whole time Danny was down about 10 seconds, which is huge. Now the game is, you know, and when you're live commentating with the headphones and the lights, like, you know, I try to be like, very basic of what's going on. The hardest challenge I commentated chess boxing, you know, Ludwig, the YouTuber, he did chess boxing, like, four years ago. And the board broke. So the 2D board broke. So I had to commentate a 3D view to a live arena of what's going on. And I would try to be like, everybody, like, you see this pawn? Like that pause, you know, it was blocking a couple of things, all like. the bomb like now black and do this and people are just, you don't fully get it. But you get just enough that your intensity also translates. >> Yeah, that's the most important, you need emotion, you need to understand, he only has 10 seconds to read out. >> But you also need a layman. >> Mm-hm. >> You do. >> You need someone to explain it to, you're good at naturally understanding it, communicate to someone who doesn't know. But yeah, it's like you need somebody like me who's almost unaware so that the casual can come in and have it be explained. And the person who's like kind of mid-level knows all of it, but it's nice for a refresher. Like when I'm watching football, I know they're going to be running on two and second and two. But it's nice to be like, what are the options of that running play, you know? >> And then even be able to draw on the board, like Circle P.S. as good as a mover. >> And that's one of the reasons why again, I think the digital screen has really helped bring that to life, you see it, but you're right, I think you really need a layman, even just to represent what most the audience would want to ask and say. >> Yeah. >> And be excited about it. Like there is kind of an interesting thing where you could get different people to kind of step into that position. They have to be aware enough of how the piece is move, like you probably need to know more than I know. But they need to know little enough about strategy where you get to explain to them and you're not explaining to someone who knows this shit already, because that becomes kind of redundant, like you explaining to Danny, you need to say, we all know this kind of shit. >> All right, guys, just some quick context for this game. I'm playing Levy from Gotham Chess, he is blindfolded, and I'm absolutely doing this all by myself. I'm not getting any help from Danny, the guy who owns chess.com, and who's also a absolutely phenomenal chess player. Again, he is not helping me at all. I do not have an earpiece in where he is telling me the moves. This is just me. I don't believe him. I don't believe him. >> Okay, I'm going to have an intro. Let's get a set. There we go, there we go, that's that shit. Okay. What's up everybody? Welcome to Flagrints. And right now we are sitting here with a blindfolded kidnap, Levy from Gotham Chess, and he's challenged me to a game of chess now. He's not the first professional athlete that has challenged me to, you know, something assuming that it wouldn't be able to deliver on an absolutely immense task. And the last person that did it, lost in historic fashion. I just want to point that out. >> Thank you for calling me an athlete, by the way. >> This is a sport, dude. >> It is, but if you saw my stomach, you would not think it is a sport. I have, I'm the embodiment of, I can't do so I teach. >> Oh, fair, fair, fair, fair, fair, fair. >> Well, well, for my victory you're going to be one of the greatest athletes that have played chess. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay, so let's make this happen. I guess I'm white, so I will start. >> Yeah, we got to shake hands. >> Yes, yes. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate it. >> Okay. >> Now we have to unpause his clogs, so we have to hit the middle button, and we have to make sure his time starts running. >> All right. >> I will unpause the clog, and you're out. >> Okay. My turn. >> Yep. >> He's scared. >> Okay. >> Andrew, please. >> Big move. >> Pawn to E4. >> Big move. >> Have you seen this opening before? >> Yes, so far so good. >> Okay. >> I'm going to go D5. Scandinavian. >> All right, man, he's four. >> D5. >> D5. >> Scandinavian. >> D5, if your queen's going to come all the way up to H5. >> Okay. >> All right, Chelsea. >> Okay. >> I think we got him. >> Yeah. >> Chelsea's thinking about this one. Okay. Queen to H5. >> Yeah, he's trying to win in four moves. >> That's crazy. Pawn takes Pawn. >> Pawn takes Pawn. >> Okay. >> Pawn takes Pawn, black Pawn to E4. >> E4. >> Did you press the clog? >> I'm okay. That's flagrant inside. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> That's true. That's true. >> You have to see for the wipe. We should put a tough one up to C4. >> Okay. >> Okay, he plays white bishop to C4. >> Clock. >> Damn, my sensory is here. >> How do you know? >> This was a good, valiant effort. I like it. >> What is that being? >> I mean, I see the threat. >> I don't. I see it up here. >> Okay. >> Let's go. Pawn to G6, attacking his queen. >> Whoa. >> And what's your chest level? >> Like, 4, 5,500. >> 500? >> Yes, I like that. >> Okay. >> Shult is eerily quiet. >> Mm-hm. >> On top five. >> Yeah. >> Shult's plays queen to E2. >> Classy. >> All right. Night of 6. Let's develop. >> Oh, boy. >> Night 2. >> E2. >> F6. >> F6. >> Okay, now you're going to bring your night out to C3. >> We're going to bring our night out to C3. >> I guess that helps. >> Yeah, I used to not see sunlight. >> Shows plays pawn to B3. >> B. >> B is in boy 3. >> Got it. >> Let's go. >> You know, you want to play the best move or the most aggressive one to get him scared. >> All right, let's go most aggressive. >> Bishop G4. >> Bishop G4. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, Levy. >> The opponent F2 is going to go up to F3 blocking the bishop to capture the queen. >> Oh, Levy. >> So what is pawn to F3? >> All right, pawn takes pawn. >> Type takes pawn. >> Your night on G1. >> pawn takes pawn. >> So that's your E pawn. >> That's the only pawn that can take it. >> Okay. >> Yeah, pawn. >> It's pawn. Shows plays night to F3 taking the pawn. >> Got it. >> I'll take the night with my bishop. >> Shows. >> Okay. >> Levy got to press my clock. >> I'll press. >> I'm going to lose on time. >> No, no, no. >> Takes a night. >> Yeah, it took his night. >> And Shows takes back with the queen. >> You got some. >> I'm pressing Levy. >> I'm ready for you to do something stupid. >> It's not happening. All right, night C6, the other night out to C6. >> Night to C6. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> How much time do I have left? >> You have here at eight minutes. Shows has someone to be as employee to. You guys have a prediction market sponsor yet? Like, can we just even bet on this again? >> Yes. >> Shows plays bishop to B2. >> Shows is annoying me. I wanted to win a lot faster. Let's go. Let's play bishop G7. >> Bishop G7. >> Yeah. >> What the fuck is? >> It's most of chess. It's just sitting there going what the fuck is? >> Which means you put your king on E1 to C1. >> For the audience at home. A door opened and I heard footsteps. >> The producers in the room. >> I might be strangled soon. I have really no idea. I've been wearing the blindfolds since I woke up this morning. I got thrown in a car. >> Shows is at seven minutes. It sounds very well. I don't want to give you a hint, but I have some ideas. >> Give me something. >> I mean, you can castle. >> That's what I was thinking. >> I don't think a castle's a wrong move here. >> Castle, which way? >> With the king on E1 to C1. Two squares. >> Yeah. >> I think a long castle. >> Damn, it goes over. >> Yeah. >> Now Shows. >> He long castles. >> Yeah. >> You do it correctly? >> Yeah. >> No, I'm serious. I'm not trying to like-- >> The king on C1. >> The king's on C1. >> The king's on C1. >> The king's on C1. >> The king's on C1. >> Okay. >> I'm going to castle as well. Short side. So this left. So castle's short side. >> Yeah. >> King to G8 root to F8. >> All right. >> Andrew, I'm officially nervous. >> No. >> Now I'm officially nervous. >> Well, we're both there. >> Okay. >> We'll have he castled short side. >> So now you're going to play at my clock. >> Is it night on C3? >> It's night on C3. >> It's night on C3. >> It's night on C3. >> It's night on C3. >> It's night on C3. This might be. - Yeah. - Shows plays Knight to D5. - The dumbest thing, or? - Knight to D5. - Correct. - D is a dog. - Holy shit. - Has man played chess before? - That's what I said. I have played. I wouldn't say-- - Are you cheating? - No. - He's just out of practice. - Can I check your ass? - I wasn't. (laughing) - For legal reasons, this is a joke. - That has been debunked and proven to be not serious. - Wow. All right. I kind of want to go for glory here, but I also want to play it safe. All right, I think I'm going to have to play it safe. I'm going to go queen C5. - Queen C5, like diagonally back one side. - C5 to the right, one square. - Queen C5. - Yeah. - Pawn to D4. - Pawn up two squares to D4. - I'm fine, I'm impressed. - He played a lot as a kid. I mean, New Yorkers just kind of know how to play chess. He's just smarter than everybody. I thought maybe like fatherhood, busy schedule. - We gotta get rid of this time, I did. - Yeah, the time's going to kill you. - The only chance I have a winning at this point, frankly. - Yeah, Schultz here are five minutes. What do you got? - I don't know. - Pawn to D4. Pawn to D is adorable. - He's yesterday and I won in like seven moves. This is, I mean, you could, I mean, I don't want to give too many hints. - No more hints, no fucking, what are you crazy? I need hints, but that Queen is a little pressure at that. - Yeah, take his hint, that wasn't a good hint, take it. - Has he lost some time yet? - No, he's down two minutes. - Like he has two minutes left. - He's at 429 now. - To D4, Pawn on D2, to D4 attacking the Queen. - Schultz plays Pawn to D4. - I think that's good, but it's not. He had better, but thank you. - His finger's still on the piece though, so I can take it back. - No, he pressed the clock, or did I throw? - Queen D6, D, in front of his knight, Queen D6. - Yeah, so now we're going to each one over to E1. The far we're going to move it to the center. It works on it. - We're going to E1. - Okay, but it's rook E1. - Which one? - H1 to E1. - H1 to E1. - Man, all right, Knight takes Knight, Knight takes Knight. - Bishup takes Knight. - Knight B4, Knight B4. - Bishup takes Pawn on B7. - Your Bishup on D5 takes Pawn on B7 attacking the rook. - You see it? - Yeah. - Yeah, I said, I don't know, Schultz, he's a. - Schultz plays rook to E7. - He took my Pawn. - Correct. - Queen takes rook. - He played the wrong move. - He played the wrong move, but I said Bishup takes. - Just a fucking retarded move. Just an absolutely retarded move. - Why did you do that? - I don't know. - I always saw something the second I did, I was like, what the fuck was it thinking? - You want to take it back? - No. - Okay. - Sorry, we're gonna keep playing it. Bishup takes B7. Bishup on D5 takes Pawn on B7. - All right, Schultz plays Bishup B7. - Yeah, let's play rook, the one that's under attack to B8, Rook A8 targeting his Bishup. - Rook to B8. - Yeah, I was gonna say, the game was like. really stressing me out, but that Rook moves surprise me. - Schultz plays Pawn to A3. - So you just like gave me a Rook and you're just back to playing like all the best moves, like that's what we're doing. - I just played the dumbest fucking move I could imagine. - He's under a thousand, you're gonna blunder sometimes, you know? - I know, but he's like, okay, let's play Pawn to C5. - I was playing really well. - You were shaking at the beginning, but then I thought. - You were playing Pawn to C5. You were playing really well. That night jump into the middle was really impressive. - Yeah, it was a ball, I think it was just the best move. - Like he just straight up, I was like, "What, there's no way you play that move." - He takes Knight with Pawn. - Yeah, I'll take the light squared Bishup with my Rook. - Light squared Bishup. - Take the Pawn on C5 with the B Pawn. B is in boy, take the Pawn on C5. - Please. - He takes the Pawn at C5 with the B Pawn before gone. - All right, let's play Pawn to A5. Pawn to A5. Pawn to C6. Move the Pawn up. Want to attack the Rook? Pawn to C6. - Shult's plays. Pawn to C6. - Let's go Rook to B, that's my move. B8, slide it back one square. - To B8, yeah. - Okay. - It's not over. - I thought it was over. - Yeah, it's not over, it's over. - It's only gonna get harder for me to see the board. 'Cause everything becomes non-standard. The pattern is remembering where every piece is, is not easy. - You sort of forget he's doing this blindfolded, eh? - Yeah, I didn't forget. I have not forgotten. - How many of these could you do? - At the same time. - At the same time. - Timed, not probably three. But if it was quiet and I could just focus probably five or six. - Wow. - But it would need to be quiet. I can't probably like talk. And then, okay, I'm going, what do you mean? - King to B1. King to B1. - All right, Pawn to A4. - Pawn to A4. Pawn to D is a dog five. Pawn on T4 to T5. - Pawn to D5. - Hmm. - Bishup, take, Bishup. - King, take, Bishup. - Crossword. - I'll play a. Queen E5 check. - No. - Queen E5 check. - I see, like, you don't quite remember. Like, am I just losing the Queen in one move? Like, 'cause all this shit is around it. But. - King to C1. - King to C is in this. That King to Charlie one. - Shows play as King to C1. - Yeah. - Don't worry about that time. You have three minutes of 46. - Like, yeah. - Shows is like a minute, some change. - All right, let's go. Pawn to A3. Pawn to push it. - A3. - Pushing the pawn. - Like, Queen to G3. To G3, try to offer a Queen trade. Queen slide over one square to G3. - Shows play as Queen to G3. - Let's just do a little trade. - Just do a little trade. I mean, give me a little trade, give me a little trade here. That's a fair trade, isn't it? - It is, it is. Let's go Queen B2 check. Queen to B2 check. Queen, are you playing King to G2? - King to G2, yeah. - Yeah. No trades. Rook, B4. - That's the far, because on B8 to B4. - That's the far, to B4. - Going Pawn to C7. - Thanks. - Rook, D4, check. - Rook. - Two squares to the left. - Check. - Queen to D3, you got to block with your queen and give up the queen. - Okay, so Queen is a D3. - Queen to D3. - Rook takes. - Rook takes, queen. - King takes, Rook. - King takes, Rook, I'm sorry. - Yeah. - How much time? - You got plenty of time. - I got 19 seconds. - Queen back to E5. - Queen to the center, E5 to Queen to E5. - Yeah. - We're going to pawn a C4. - Shows place pawn C4. - This is a fucking mess. Queen takes C7 diagonally back to square. - Queen takes C7. - Yep. - And I'm going to put your time, yeah. - Count D1 to A1. - Okay, going Rook to A1, okay. - Rook to A1. - Queen C5, up to square. - Queen C5. - That is just, let me win. Jesus. - What happened? - I just ran out of action. - Are you ran out of time? - Yeah. - Should we just play it out? - No, I mean, it'll probably take a few moves. I'm going to play with my Rook. He has King D3, H2G2, D5, C4, B3, Rook, A1, right? - You know every piece on the board? - Yes, I will tell you, actually, what was by far the hardest. So what I completely blanked is that my pawn is going down because early in the game, your pawn structure was like this from the beginning. And you went here, here, and then this went here. So I was like, wait, do you have an A pawn or not? 'Cause I couldn't remember like what it happened. So I was actually freaking out a little bit 'cause I didn't want to like take a ghost pawn and look through. - But what are the rules on that? Like are you allowed to ask if there's a piece somewhere? - Really? - You really shouldn't. - Oh, I'm like-- - You supposed to shake his hand. - Oh, yes, sir. - Yes, I was like-- - Holy. - There was a moment I was replaying the whole game in my head, which I can still do. Like, it's not that hard. But like, I was like, wait a minute. Is there a pawn there or not? And I just wanted to play it safe. - What a fucking dumb move that I made. - I don't know why you did that. You just forgot I could take the rook. - Yeah, I don't know why you did that. - Was not like you wanted me to look good and win? - No. - No. (laughing) - Like, damn, he's a really struggling. Like maybe I-- - First of all, I didn't think you were struggling. - At some point I couldn't, well, here's the thing. You played so well in the beginning. - I thought my beginning was a little weak and then I had a couple of moves ever decent. - Yeah, the night jump was good. I'll probably end up analyzing this like the game. But when you jumped in with the night and then I retreated, you could have started like capturing pieces in front of my king and-- - So you thought I was too defensive early on or? - I mean, I straight up asked if you were cheating. I was like, is this a bit? (laughing) It's something like, 'cause you know I went to University of Florida and I played some kid. And in the middle of the game, I'm a taster out playing him. He starts completely out playing me. And then I win. And after he came up to me, he's like, "Yeah, you know, my friend was sitting in the audience. "I had a vibrating stick in my shoe." (laughing) And he was telling me who was. And then it broke. - Oh wow. - And then that's why. - So these kids like straight up built a cheating device and put it in his shoe. - I would have vibrating, like, thing tell you, you just like more scoded. - Really? - Yeah, you could probably. - So like, two beeps is a bond. - Can I tell you something that's so embarrassing? I was cheating and you still won. (laughing) - For real? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a little special help. Should we have him come in? - Yeah, bring the help in. - Should we bring the help in? (laughing) - Should we bring the help in? Bring the help in! - It's always more embarrassing now. - It's a weird one. (laughing) (laughing) - Oh my God. - What? - Dude, I'm so sorry, but I'm sorry, but not sorry 'cause you're fucking won anyway. Oh my God. - No, so he said, "What was the move?" - So I was right. - I know, I know. - You were right. - You were right. - So it's actually really interesting because like, sometimes you would be commentating on the moves. And he would be telling me the next move and I just couldn't hear him. So I'd just kind of be like, "Sing there hoping that he would say it again." - Oh. (laughing) - So there was one where he goes. I think you said, you said, "Bishev, it takes B7." - And for some reason, I thought Rook, I don't know. And that's why I made that. - But you said putting pressure on the Rook. - Oh no, you said putting pressure on the Queen. - No, no, no, no. On that move, you said. - Oh shit, you're right, that's attacking the Rook. - 'Cause I said, "You said it takes B7 attacking the Rook." - And then you heard Rook take C7. - I don't know, I just heard Rook and I played it. And the second I put it there, even I don't know shit about you. I thought like, this is a gross move. (laughing) - Oh man. - Caught it. So we've been bamboozled, so run out of my hand. - Absolutely deceived. (laughing) - Well, Levy, so I'm sitting there. And so Lucy comes in. - Yeah. - 'Cause she doesn't know this was happening. So she sits next to me and I'm like, "All right, like, she's like, "Oh my God, this is gonna be hilarious. "You're gonna kill him." So I purposely played a slow opening to start. 'Cause I wanted you all to-- - She doesn't. - So Queen H5, all this stuff, right? Then we're just playing best in-gen moves. - Yeah, 95, I was like, "What the fuck?" (laughing) - He's playing perfect chess and then, but you were playing all the best in-gen moves, like Lucy's right there. I'm like, "Levy's playing like fucking Stockfish. "He's playing every best move." - Defore was Stockfish? After Queen C5? - Queen C5, no, so I was just trying to play like the second best move 'cause I was confident we were gonna win. - Yeah. - So AdVision takes B7 is when I obviously let Andrew Shreve by saying attack the rook. He heard move the rook and then shit went great. - Well, you lost your rook, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - So obviously after '94, I think you were about to get in big trouble 'cause Bishop takes B7, I'm gonna play eighth-free and your position's gonna start to crumble. - Yeah, he was so funny and everything. - And then you go, "Do you wanna take that back?" (laughing) - That's what I was like, "What?" - He was almost like, "You're really good." - Oh my god. - You're getting so well. (laughing)