Magia de la Voz y Salmos

Es ist etwas Mauma jetzt. Niemand wird diese Episode eine Woche vor dem Erscheinern auf. Heute ist der 21. Juli. Wenn die Episode erscheint, wissen wir vielleicht ein Gastgeber, also die Stadt, wo es stattfinden wird. Und jetzt müssen wir irgendwie so tun, also ob oder, wie wir darauf reagieren. Also was für ein Orser. - Oder Burgas. Weißt du was, Marco? Wir nehmen jetzt einfach beide Versionen auf. Also okay, wir beginnen jetzt einfach mal. Also. Sophia, jetzt noch "Secret anymore" Sophia wird den Eurovision Song Contest 20/27 os. Und es ist wohl keine Berraschung. Damit war er wirklich zu rechnen, Alkiz muss man sagen, Sophia war einfach Topfall-Warrit nicht. Und jetzt freuen wir uns auf die Bulgarische Hauptstadt und den Eurovision-Song-Contest. So, jetzt schnitt. Alkiz, so ist es eben bekannt gegeben worden. Burgas, Burgas wird den Eurovision-Song Contest 20/27 veranstalten. Also wir fahren völlig überraschend an die Schwarzen Merküste. Wer hätte das gedacht? Das ist Burgas, wer wirklich da außen seid oder? Oh, ja, jetzt wo du sagst, es liegt ja mehr. Genau. Es liegt am Meer. Jetzt Ich bin eigentlich da für das Burgas gewinnt. Es wird Sophia vermutlich. Anderswarz Merküste. Merci, Sheri, der Eurovision-Song Contest podcast aus Wien, Hannover und Koji Chiba. Mir gegenüber sitzt Alkiz Vlazacakis, Mein Wieser Wiesb, Markus Scheuter und das Thema heute. Barock, Bombas, Bangeranga, der Eurovision-Song-Contest als Hofspektakel. Also, falls ihr nichts mit Barock anfangen könnt, bleibt trotzdem dran. Es ist auch für nicht keine sehr spannend, wie sehr sich kulturelle Tradition über Jahrhundert erhalten. Und wie sie sich da noch immer wieder neu erfinden. Genau, bevor wir losstarten, wir reden nachher über ein anderes Barockspektakel. Dass jedes Jahr im Theater Aristan stattfindet, dort gibt es interessante Änderungen beim Festival des Andrehmos und Barockspektakel. Ja, das stimmt ja. Und in der kleinen Song Contest-Geschichte am Schluss rede ich über die Open, natürlich, was sonst. Barockspektakel. Nein, ich kann. So fast. Dr. Eurovision, wie ich wollte, veranstaltet schon seit vielen, vielen Jahren die Eurovision-Konferenz rund um den SC, immer in der aktuellen Gasgebestadt, so eben auch 20, 26 in Wien. Wir haben ihn daher eingeladen und mit einem der Wissenschaftler. Der kommt aus Brasilien und hat erstaunliche Parallelen zwischen der Inszenierung und der Politik hinter Barockopan und dem Eurovision-Song-Contest untersucht. Aber das würde jetzt mal selbst. Wir haben zwei Gäste heute und mit einem fang ich jetzt mal Deutsch zu sprechen. An und bebeide lieber Irving Wolter. Wir müssen nachher ins Englische wechseln. Wir erklären nachher gleich, warum. Aber warum du heute bei uns bist, du machst ja jedes Jahr eine Eurovision-Konferenz. Und so war dies auch jetzt in Wien, das ist ja immer das Wanderts quasi mit dem Eurovision-Song-Contest-Circus mit. Und war auch in Wien wieder eine Eurovision-Konferenz. Vielleicht erklärst du unseren Zuhörerinnen und Zuhörer mal, was ist überhaupt diese Konferenz? Ja, diese Konferenz wurde 2018 das erste Mal durchgeführt. Nachdem Portugal in Eurovision-Song-Contest 2017 in Kierf gewonnen hatte, dachte ich mir, es muss doch jetzt mal in Portugal eine vernünftige Eurovision-Konferenz. Und ich kannte noch von einer Eurovision-Stagung aus Malmö, eine Kollegin Sophia W. Lurbeisch. Und die habe ich angeschrieben, hat gefragt, ob sie nicht Lust hätte, so was Etno-Musikologisches auf die Bahlen zu stellen. Und die war gleich angefixt. Und dann haben wir gemeinsam die erste Eurovision-Konferenz in zwei Teilen in Portugal stattfinden lassen. Ein Februar auf Portugiesisch und dann ein Im-Mari zum Song-Contest. Und haben uns sehr gefreut, über den großen Zuspruch hatten auch extra eine Sektion für Nachwuchsforscherinnen, den Science-Slam, weil wir gesehen haben, es gibt zu viele Eurovision-Fans, die das eben auch als wissenschaftliches Thema begreifen. Und darüber ihre Bachelor- und Master-Arbeiten schreiben und eine Regulierungkonferenzen immer so ein bisschen hinüberfallen. Und nach dem ersten Erfolg dachte ich, ja, war schön. Und dann kam aber die Kollegin Karla und meinte, so, ah, lass uns das doch nächstes Jahr auch in Israel machen. Und, ja, man macht das. Feier, die durch mich da war ich nämlich zu Gast, du hast du mich eingeladen. Genau, genau, da warst du auf der bei einer Poljungsdiskussion zusammen auch mit dem Portugiesischen Haltungschef, der für den Song-Contest-Fan-Fortwurthlich ist. Und ja, so haben wir dann unsere Netzwerke, die wir hatten, genutzt, um das Thema Eurovision auf wissenschaftlicher Ebene bekannte zu machen. Und, ja, dieses Jahr, in Wien, das war die Neuntekonferenz. Wir freuen uns jetzt auf unsere 10. Jubelierungsfanschaltung dann in Bulgarien nächstes Jahr. Und da ruf ich jetzt schon alle ESC-Fans auf, die sich wissenschaftlich mit dem Song-Kollest beschäftigen, meldet euch bei uns. Wir freuen uns über eure Beiträge, über eure wissenschaftlichen Arbeiten, die ihr dann hoffentlich dann in so viel oder in Plough-Diff oder in Neburgas oder in Warner, bei der nächsten Eurovision International Conference vorstellen könnt. Beim kuratierende Ausstellung habe ich selber bemerkt, auf wie viel wissenschaftlichen Ebene und Disziplin in Eurovision eine Rolle spielen kann. Was hat dich bisher meisten überrascht, welches Thema oder welche Einreiche? Also ich muss immer daran zurückdenken, wie Kevin Crickley, ein US-amerikanischer Forscher mit schleuchten Augen berichtet hat, wie er den Eurovision-Song-Kontest nutzt, um US-amerikanische Schüler innen Yoga-Fieber zu bringen. Und die haben das also gemeinsam geschaut und dann war dann hinterher innen gängen, so die Diskussion. Ja, ich fand Nordmatsidonien besser als Albanien bei Schülern, die normalerweise gar nicht wissen, dass es diese Länder überhaupt gibt. Und das war natürlich eine ganz große Geschichte zu sehen, wie das eben didaktisch eingesetzt werden kann. Und persönlich fand ich das ganz großartig, großartig, dass eine Doktorandin im Bereich Architektur geforst hat zu den Bauwerken, die bei der Punktevergabe im Hintergrund immer eingeblendet werden. Und wenn hier ein Bohlkraft darin steckt und wie die dargestellt werden, das fand ich aussorbenlich spannend. Und das hat mir gezeigt, dass man wirklich für jede wissenschaftliche Disziplin einen Anklüpfungspunkt beim Soundgeultest findet. Ich denke auch, die Sportwissenschaften studieren, die werden beim Soundgeultest ganz fündig werden, wenn sie sich in Kroafinen reinfucksen und erschauen, welche interessanten Leibesertüchtigung da auf der Böden stattfinden. Ich verweise auf die vorletzten Episode Fußball und Eurowisch und wie viele Bödenungspunkte ich gefunden habe in der Schärche, war untal los. Aber du hattest dieses Jahr in Wien ja auch einen Science-Slam. Und wer hat den denn gewonnen und mit welchem Thema? Ja, ich war sehr, sehr glücklich, dass wir gestatten aus der ganzen Welt aus Südkorea und auch aus Brasilien und der brasilianische Teilnehmer am Science-Slam. Raffin mit der Stekampe, mein Schraffel, ach sorry. Ich muss hier, er hat einen Prize für dich. Das ist der beste Part der Show, weil ich mich auf den langen Portegies Brasilian-Namen auf der Böden und Raffin und Raffin und Raffin und Raffin hat einen Prize für dich. Ich bin mir sehr glücklich. Das ist der Moment, wo wir es zu Englisch sind. Raffin, du hier mit uns aus der Stadt in Brasilien. Du hast mir gesagt, wie es ist. Tellen die Ostern und die Germans und die Menschen aus der Spitze in dem, was es in der Stadt zu dir lief und warum wir es nicht wissen. Okay, ich bin aus der Stadt called Kudichibat, der in der seltenen Partei in Brasilien. Und es ist einfach schön, dass sie sagen, es ist der Europeanen, von Brasilien, der ist ein sehr generöses Ding zu sagen, aber es ist aber sehr schön, ich denke, ich würde das nicht sehen. Allright, so, willkommen zu unserer Podcast Irving war es in unserer Podcast sehr viele times, aber es ist dein 1. Einmal. Und du wirst die Science-Slampe dieses Jahr in der Eurovision-Konferenz organisiert durch Irving, oder? Ja, bei der großen Masse. Oh, okay. Was ist das, was ist das, was ist es? Was ist es, oder was ist es, was ist es, oder was ist es, was ist es, was ist es, die Science-Slampe? Ja, es ist definitiv die Audience. Da man bereits beim ersten genügendventen Sechnitz Christen Die meisten Mig dragon What´s are die neuen MRM zum neuen Sixtime Die Dinosaurst, die Dinosaurst, so, alright. So you won´t, 100% Televotes, as I just. So congratulations. Thank you. Thank you so much. It was a very nice experience for me. It's always a pleasure to present research that is like your revision related and to be part of such a nice group of researchers as well. It was super nice. I was surprised to hear that there is so much your revision research in Brazil that was already a few months ago dedicated conference in Brazil where my colleagues Sophia Verolopeche was taking part. Yeah, I think there it's like something that is still growing because the revision is not very much like it's not a big part of our culture yet, but I feel like especially like in the last couple of years like a little it's been a little bit more like prominent I would say. So yeah, I've heard about this conference as well, but I only heard about it like afterwards so it's a little sad for me. But I'm pretty sure that from now on more things are going to show up so. We didn't reveal yet what you researched, but before we do that we of course interested because it just said that Eurovision is not a very famous thing in Brazil and we now see Eurovision coming of more places like Canada will join Australia already joined like 11 years ago. I know that in former years in the 60s and 70s Eurovision was even shown on Brazilian TV also Sanremo, but I think this is not happening anymore so how is the situation in Brazil when it comes to Eurovision? So yeah, that's true. Like I think they screened it in OpenTV like three times like in the end of the 60s early 70s and then if you wanted to watch the revision you had to have like cable TV and watch it in like an international channel. So that has been the situation for a long time and then after a while the YouTube transmissions as well they're not geoblocked in here which is very good. And since 2024 there is this TV streaming service that actually bought the rights of the Eurovision but it's not very famous. I had never heard about it before so I think it still has like a limited kind of reach. And how does Eurovision find you? No, so actually I grew up knowing about it but it has always been this kind of like weird campy thing that Europeans like and it doesn't really translate to us you know. But who told you that you grow up with it? Yeah, like we've seen like how to say like maybe like a new Southletters or something like you know, I remember when Kansita first won something appeared because you know of the it was something very different and also before that like in the beginning of the 2000s this Hacksky as well. So here and there are a couple of things appeared but it wasn't really part of our culture. And in 2023 only my boyfriend he's Israeli and he's never been like into the Eurovision or anything but he was in a watch party I think and he recorded a little bit of the TV for me and I was like oh what's that? That sounds very interesting. And I remember who the hell was Edgar. So I went to the website and I listened to it and I was like this is so fun. Yeah, it's the Austrian entry right? And I started listening to another one and another one and that was semifinal two. So I rushed to watch semifinal one and two and then I watched the final and that day and I had my first like post-European depression and luckily I had like 70 years almost of tradition to just go back to and that's how it happened. Great. Are you sometimes surprised Irving in which countries people are researching about Eurovision sometimes? Totally. And I'm also very surprised to see the big fan communities in countries like the Philippines and Venezuela and I wonder how they got in touch with the contest and that they spread their love for the contest in such a way. And even happier to see that there's an increasing number of researchers doing their scientific work with Eurovision. Rafael, how do you describe Eurovision to your Brazilian friends if they never heard about it? I usually try to say that it's like a song competition where mostly European countries are sent a representative and they compete every year and the one who wins it then hosted the following year. But honestly I've kind of given up trying to convert people. I tried to find the ones who already like it. It's easier. Because we have this thing in Brazil where our musical culture is very Brazilian based. So it doesn't have a lot of entry, like other sorts of languages beyond like English. That's a difficulty. You have similar competitions and similar festivals in South America as well, right? Vinha de Mata, for example. Oh, okay. But the thing is that we actually do, like even in the intervision like Brazil was part of it, right? Was it this year, I think, or was it last year, but they revived it? Yeah, Brazil was part of it as well, but like no one heard about it. It's not a thing. It doesn't really resonate. It's better to not hear about it anyway. Sometimes, sometimes it is. But the funny thing was that very camp Vietnamese guy won, right? Yeah, yeah. It was very big. The technical side of him was impressive. So Rafael, let's reveal what you've done and what your research is because when I heard about it and Irving told me about it, I was immediately hooked on that because I love to go to Yopra. And your, explain us, what is your topic, what did you research about? So, my research was attempting to kind of explain why I believe that the Eurovision can be perceived as a sort of like neo-Buro spectacle. So I feel like it has a lot of similarities to these kinds of spectacles that we used to have in the Baroque period, especially because of the political use of wonderment. So I think that would be it. Okay, that's great. For everyone who's listening now and has no idea, Baroque Baroque, I've heard that. That's the period around 1600 to 7050 before the Rococo came. It's the area with Caravaggio and Rubens who started this and with the Dutch painters, but in southern Germany, it ostrates more like very decorative, very strong emotions. And the music industry became huge, especially in the aristocratic community. In the big castles, we all know Versailles, Schumbrunen, and so on. And there were huge spectacles with operas, started with Monteverdi in 1600s and then with Handel, of course, Gilfried Riechhandel, who was probably still played in a lot of opera houses. And you found out similarities between those operas and Eurovision, which sounds very stunning. So what did you find out? No, so I think like in the Baroque period, there was like the time in which these kinds of spectacles were used for propaganda, for diplomatic and governance tools. So I felt that the Eurovision also worked in a similar way when you have the countries promoting themselves under certain light, or when they're talking about certain events or promoting certain ideals. So I think that's the core thing. And then when it comes to the wonderment aspect, it has to do with how they actually make it happen. So both are these kinds of musical spectacles that are staged, that use illusions machinery. So we're talking about this very multisensory spectacles that have not only music, but visual aspects as well, engineering. We're talking about costumes and sets. All of that to really create this emotional response, but always linked to some sort of political goal. What are typical political goals in those days, which you would compare to Eurovision nowadays? So I was using mostly Tim Carter for that, and he has, first of all, these spectacles, they are celebratory by nature, right? So we're talking about, before that, before I used to talk about these spectacles trying to uplift a specific house or the church, and the Eurovision is somehow trying to celebrate the idea of a new European, this identity or this communion between these countries that are joining the show. But the brooks, the brooks spectacles, they used to have other sorts of uses, such as they used to be used for fostering social cohesion, for establishing class distinction, and to impress the audience as a display of wealth and prosperity. So in the social cohesion part, for example, if we're talking about French ballets, and we have the ballets being a space in which messages were delivered in a very explicit manner. So if you're thinking about Louis. the 13th and he was known as the sun king because he used to be like dancing ballet and he danced in this specific ballet where he was representing the sun. He had a costume of the sun and we had people dancing around him like really like, let's say like gravitating towards around him and which is this kind of visual representation of absolutism right what what what that society was all about. But we also have that in the end of the ballet where people were invited to join in the dance and then everyone could you know be part of that and that created an idea of of a community right the harmonious community taking part of that kind of fun. So that is one side of it was also used for coercion as well. So the whole idea of oxay is already like to have most nobles in the same space so you can you know kind of they will be like let's prone to to plot against you they will be entertained all the time so they have like less free time but also they will be happier and this entertainment is not giving like these ideas of propaganda about the regime and how good the king is and how you know right this is so it was operating in that way. So when we're thinking about the Eurovision this idea of social cohesion I think has a lot to do with the with the joining of this this group of course the Eurovision has also like other other goals such as the economic part of like sharing sharing content with the Eurovision network right so there's that side of things as well but we're talking about this post Cold War environment we're talking also about strengthening these bonds of the Western block with through culture right and the Eurovision and the EBU they promote certain values such as unity and universality and equality and all of these things are kind of like promoted through the context itself even democracy with the voting system and so on and it becomes a space of acceptance or rejection so that's why we have these kinds of debates about like Russia or Israel or having Turkey and Hungary leaving because they don't agree with certain values that are promoted in the contest so it becomes a space of dispute as well but it is trying somehow to create this idea of this foster this this cohesion between these people so that's one thing when it becomes to class distinctions we're talking about in the Eurovision specifically like the amount of money that is invested in this in this show right so we have the distinctions when it comes to the big four and the big five which is the the biggest one but also you know you start to be clear the financial economic differences in between these countries that are participating and the possibilities that they have to put on a show went to create an impact in this arena right so it's a little bit different these things are not operating in the same way but I think there is like this similarity of like of the goals behind them you know and when it comes to impressing the audience is really like about self-power and creating crafting this kind of idea of national branding so we're talking about Azerbaijan trying to project this idea of of like a modern country and then they create this like huge arena the Baku Crystal Hall you know with all the technology and so on and so I think that those are some of the similarities that exist when it comes to these political uses and what were the the special effects you had on the stage is in Baroque area which you still could use actually on your original stage yeah they had water for example right they had water effects sometimes and jet words had that too well fireworks yeah exactly water fireworks all of these things that so something so braille is wrong when he said it's not about fireworks yeah I think it is I think it is I think now right now it is but that's the thing you know like he was very minimalist and that's also a nostalgic choice right so he this is this becomes a very impressive thing exactly in contrast to these other big things that are going on right so it's not like just like we don't want the fireworks but it's you know we know that if you don't use the fireworks it's going to call attention as well to the music so you know when I saw your your performance now do you say performance just your your your speech you gave in the on screen for the Eurovision conference we will link it because you can still watch it on YouTube look at the show notes and then you'll find a link to to your how do you call it your science slam yes that's the name presentation presentation thank you and and I was surprised because I never thought about it of course I mean you have to find this connection how did you find this connection I think Irving told me as well he was totally surprised when he heard about that the first time that's not there oh so I took took a little while to be honest like I knew I wanted to I knew I had to choose something and I didn't want to leave the other one behind and I was thinking like you know why do I like these things and they were like a lot of reasons but the spectacle was one big thing like both of them were like very strong in that department so I started to notice like small similarities between them regarding both my experience and aesthetic stuff so I was thinking well when I'm watching these things I like when you have you know dance and you have you know these cool props I like to be surprised I like to have variety like musical variety so in opera she used to have you know even like singers used to request that you know they wanted to showcase all of their possibilities so they wanted to have all sorts of values that they could sing in one opera and when it comes to the revision as well like I think that a balanced night would have you know a rock entry an EDM entry a girl pop and a power ballad you know you want this kind of dynamism to the event so those were some things and also when it comes to the the structure of the show itself so in the Baroque period if we're talking about like weddings they used to be very very lavish and they used to last for a long time so you had like a bride coming from a different city and they would she would travel and you would have like this different parade different parades in different cities right so the the it's her trajectory until she gets to the main event and then the main event could last you know for days or a week having private and and public events going on you had opera as you had balls you had a spoken play you had a feast you had games so it was a this big thing and thinking about the Eurovision I think it's not of course the same but it's it has some similarities that it was noticing so you had like the the Eurovision how do you call that is it the Eurovision tour like those those shows that you have before the Eurovision in different city the pre parties the pre parties yeah in different cities and then you have the main event which lasts the whole week so it starts with this protocol or thing with just the turquoise carpet and then you have three shows the most important one is the grand finale but the grand final but you have the two semi finals and then each show of those have like other two shows right you have the afterno show you have the jury show and you have other you have private and public ways of engaging with it so you can buy a ticket or you can be you know in the Eurovillage or in the Euroclub or you know have other ways of being part of this this whole event which lasts you know for a long time so all of those things were starting to show up for me but I had like this connections that I didn't know what to do with until I realized that you the political part was the thing that was driving all of that and then you know I was onto something so that's kind of how it came about but it took a while it took a while yeah I'm really surprised but on the other hand is it really that this two worlds the Baroque opera and Eurovision have the similarities or is it also two examples of what music can do in general like I mean we had music competitions already in ancient Greece we had I just think about Richard Wagner and his opera the Meistersinger von Nürnberg which is about a song competition a song contest based on medieval Texas so every maybe you also know a bit more about this culture has been used as a power tool for since the existence of humanity let's say because the one who who could play an instrument was able to touch people in a way that others couldn't and when we see in history how closely related music and power were especially in the period of Baroque and when the musicians highly depended on the method of influential nobility or and later of rich business owners who were just giving them the money to survive and to be creative. So we see that all these factors are intertwined until today. And we will see also how this balance of power, let's say, will be affected by the influence of artificial intelligence when there are now researchers saying that handmade music will be a privilege of the rich because they will be the ones who can still afford it and the rest of humanity will just be satisfied with AI-composed music that sounds like the music that you're used to listen to. So this is this historical development that is going on and on and on. And I hope that Eurovision will still be and remain a place where handmade music can show what human creativity is able to do. Do you want to add something in our field? I think that's it. It's not only music. I think art has this power, but music has something very special in it, like regarding the help it access emotions in a very unconscious way. So yeah, I do agree with everything that was said. This is particularly, I was surprised after I listened to your presentation, my way of watching the presentations on the Eurovision stage changed. Because suddenly I started watching them as parts of a Baroque opera. And especially the presentation of Finland was so much, was so Baroque, in fact, in the way that she's playing there. And suddenly she's, you don't look for a moment and then she's in a different place. Or the Austrian singer that was elevated like Deus Ex piano. Yeah. It's interesting. In the Austrian Museum, the curator who did the other exhibition, we worked together, Florent Wagner. He is researching at the moment, but on the songs, the songs constructed as little opera pieces, as music theater pieces. Because actually what you get at Eurovision, a lot of three-minute operas. We're staging with the director, with ballet, and sometimes it's a set ballet, like you have in the Baroque opera. And sometimes it's up tempo. And if there is one opera era with up tempo music, it's a Baroque. They can be very fast. Yeah, that's not the way you have this very little beginning and stories. That's the thing with the Eurovision. It might not be this cohesive, it is cohesive, but not as one narrative. But it's like this one entertainment experience that ends up working as such, as an opera would have been. So I think that's very interesting. Even if you think of, this is something else that I have talked about, which is the fact that we have not only this main dish, let's say, which are the entries, but we have this other performances in between, right, you have during the show, I mean. So the guest performances and so on. And they are also serving to uplift the event itself or the host country. And all of that is also operating, such as the intermeddy used to be then, which are where this very lavish spectacle is as well in between the acts of the spoken play, just to celebrate whatever was going on, be it the wedding, be it the house or something. So everything works in a very self-contained way that I feel like it's kind of like, in a way equivalent, like the modern day equivalent. I know from Irving that he loves Johann Sebastian Bach, so he's very, very keen to Baroque music, even if Bach is already a little bit of pre-classical, you can say, but what is your favorite Baroque music and how did you find your way to Baroque music, Raphael? Well, my favorite is Monteverde, do you? [Music] I really liked the early music sound, but it took me a while to get into opera, because in my city, we never had an opera house or anything, but we did have here and there some concerts. And the thing is that they always chose some not very beginner-friendly operas to perform, so it was always like a concert of the Freix-chutes, or a concert of Rianne Bach, which was like an obscure Baroque opera. So it was never like something easy to just sit and be involved by it, for someone who never heard of any of that before. But I remember that when I watched "Lord of Faye" by Monteverde, on YouTube, it was like this film opera thing with Bonnelle, very nice production, and that's the one that actually spoke to me. I felt something very deep in me, and I was like, "Okay, I think this is what I really love." Okay, funny. The most people are saying, "Had we prosed?" "Are you saying something different?" And you know what? My favorite opera singer, countertenor singer, is not JJ, but a Brazilian singer. Oh, Bruno de Sainte. Bruno de Sainte. He's amazing. I was lucky enough to see him here once singing Bach, by the way. Right before he went to Europe and became a big thing, and it's just very impressive, mind blowing. I saw him a few weeks ago, Alessandro Nelindiev, by Leonardo Vinci, not Leonardo Da Vinci, but Leonardo Vinci. Wow, that's awesome. And it's so long, this one, right? Yeah, yeah, it's very long. So we have Eurovision Song Contest Asia, starting this year. What about Eurovision Song Contest Latin America? Well, I think that would be fun. I mean, it would be very different. I'm not sure exactly how that would work. I mean, we could keep the format, of course, but like when it comes to all of these things operating underneath, I mean, the national branding would definitely stay, and so on, but I'm not sure how the dynamic of those countries taking part of such thing, how that would be. I have no idea, but I think it would be fun to see. What do you think, Irving? Eurovision Song Contest Latin America, would that be successful, or would it be a problem because there are two languages, right? Yeah, but I mean, in the past, we had the OT Festival until the late '80s, where we also had Spain Portugal and parts of Latin America participating. To be honest, to me, it was always a little bit boring because I felt that the song sung quite similar to each other. But Eurocentric. Definitely. I admit that it worked for so many years but I shouldn't have it worked again. Yeah, we used to have this tradition of having this song contest, especially on TV, back in the '60s and so on. That was a very strong thing, but it was, as I said, Brazilian music for Brazilians. I'm not sure how this international thing would work for us, specifically, maybe for Spanish-speaking countries. It would be different. What also surprised me was that there were a lot of cover versions in Brazil in the '60s and '70s of Eurovision songs. In the '60s and '70s, I don't know. I know some of them. Sure. Really, which ones? Yeah. I can say to some MP3 files. I think no one in Brazil knows them, probably. But there were seven-inch singles in the '60s, Brazilian singers were singing Eurovision songs. This is awesome. Yeah, I know that a lot of sun-dremos songs actually. Oh, yeah. I think I won't remember an example now. But I know that the new ones sometimes they do make some versions. I remember that Lawrence Tattoo became like this "Citon Asia" song. So they put this different kind of beat and a sad lyric and so on. And it's happening still. So it is becoming somehow known, but in a different way. Thank you so much, Rafael. We have over three questions at the end. We ask every guest who is in our show. And I will ask Erving as well. He has answered these questions a lot. But what is new? Which song of the Eurovision song contested? So on Contest 2026, Rafael is still on your playlist. Oh, I think I'm going through that moment in which, you know, I've listened to all of them a lot and so I'm like giving it a break a little. But I think I still listen to my system, but I think it's a sweet and, sweet and, yeah. Yeah, I think I listened to that one. Yeah, it was the first I deleted. My ranking usually doesn't really, isn't the same as my, as I was listening to. It's different. Yeah. I was making a little joke. Irving, which song of 20s, 20s, 6s is still on your playlist? Oh, now this is the moment of truth. This is the first time in my Eurovision fan career that I don't have a single song of the national of any nation in my personal playlist. There are lots of songs that I like, but none of them is so close to my heart that I want to listen to it over and over again. Which is your favorite memory of the Eurovision song contest that I fell? Oh, it's definitely my master's degree. Thanks to it. Yeah. That's, that's a good answer, of course. I can't remember your, your answer in the last time, but now you can restart. Maybe there's a recent one or what you, you're still favorite memory on the Eurovision song contest 2026 in Vienna. Mal, yeah, this is, it was definitely the conference because it was such a wonderful atmosphere. So relaxed, so because in the past two years, due to the tensions around Israel and the conflict in Middle East, we always were fearing for some things going wrong, protests, and whatsoever. And we're so relaxed in Vienna and everyone was so friendly. And also the atmosphere during the conference was so great. I enjoyed it so much. We had so many viewers, also online following the conference, a new record. So that made me very, very happy and that made me aware also of how big the interest is in your revision related research. So, Rafal, what is your all-time favorite Eurovision entry? Oh, that's, yeah, it's probably one of the hardest questions. I know. That's why we are asking that. Yeah, so I think that there are some rare moments in which, you know, because music never happens in the vacuum, right? So there are these rare moments in which I think extra musical stuff come together with like a great song and you know, it creates this magical thing. And so I think my favorite entry is offer Hazas Hai, which was Israel was in 83. And I think I'm sorry, Luxembourg, it should have won, but it's just gorgeous. I think it's-- Of course it should have won. Totally. It was the best song that year. Exactly. The lyrics are beautiful. And of a Hazas voice is just, you know, crystal clear. And the orchestration is gorgeous. Yeah, I really love it. But I love a lot of things. I love, you know. And it's not a change. Your perspective is still more than 96, I think, right? Exactly. It is. It still is. And will always be also clever and entertaining in the soul. I will look for the Baroque operas now at Eurovision. It's great. Yeah. So thank you very much. And thank you Irving for connecting us. I think this Eurovision conference is really, really a very fabulous thing you're doing. And please, please keep on doing this wonderful work, Irving. Yeah. And you all, please, please keep on researching Eurovision and send in your contributions to our conference that we can continue having these interesting science lamps with a variety of topics that you would never have imagined could rise out of this competition. Yeah. And I think I have to do an episode about the buildings and the background of the point speakers. That sounds fabulous, really. I will connect you with the audience. Yes, that's really a fabulous thing. Okay, thank you so much, Raffa, for being with us. It is a much for having me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. (laughing) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Merci cheris, we have to talk. Eurovision goes Broadway, or so. Der Schürzt, das ist dann einfach das Sanremo weitergeschickt. Also, es gibt schon einen Grund, warum er das Konzept für den. Ja, ich gehe noch nicht schaut und die Finger. Ich muss mal mit der Reden. - Schürzt sie? Wir reden. Irgings noch ein kleines Anrehmerendrum, der Nachwuchs-Sieger von Nuave Proposte, das gibt's nicht mehr einen eigenen Werbbewerb, sondern der kommt direkt ins Hauptfeld. Genau, der Sieger von Sanremo Giovanni, weil es fiziert sich nämlich direkt für den Hattel. Giovanni. - Giovanni. Ja, das war schon mal so. Mach Mut. Der ist ja aus dem Jugendbewerb, der das Hauptfeld gekommen ist, gewinnt an den ganzen Schaas. - Mehrmals. Genau, passt das an gerade das Jahr auch noch? - Ja, genau. Ja, und dann gibt's natürlich auch eine traurigen Richter aus Italien. Bepinu DiCapri ist im Alter von fast 87 Jahren gestorben. Er vertraut Italien 1991 beim Songkontest in Rome. Und hat gleich zweimal Sanremo gewonnen, nämlich 1973 und 1976. Also, er war schon sehr berühmt. Ja, Champagne ist entrobatisch, wann sehr berühmte Bands. Und er ist ja sozusagen einer der Interpreten des neopolitanischen Gescheinens. Ich glaube, ich glaube, nicht der Mann. Und so gesehen ja auch einer der in der Schule, wo es halt da Windschiz zu Hause ist. Die sind neopolitanisch und gesagt. - Ja, traurig. Merci, Cheri, die kleine Songkontestgeschichte am Schluss. Alkiss, welche Baroqueoppe hast du mir mitgebracht? Es wäre natürlich naheliegend über Marlene Ermann zu reden, die ja eine großartige Baroqueoppe Interpreten ist. Ich kenne ihre Mozartinterpretende Baroque auch. Parcell, ich hab sie hier als Steidor gesehen, zum Beispiel. Also der britische Zweig der Baroqueoppe. Also für alle, die sind nicht wissen Marlene Ermann. Ich weh jetzt zwei, drei, drei. - Genau. Und die Mutter von, natürlich. Ja, ich will jetzt übertürchen. - Ich merke, wie es in meiner Achtung sehr gesungen ist. Oh, no, aber wir reden von der anderen großen italienischen Opern, nämlich wir reden von Reguletto, Simon, Bokane, Greida, Latra, Viata, wie ein Lerzscheier war. - Nein. Wir reden von ihm war wie Gsell. Ah, das ist schon ein bisschen länger her. - Das ist schon ein bisschen länger her. Den Schwedischen Star-Baritan, der einen Großteil seiner Karriere in Berlin an der deutschen Uppel-Beliehen gesungen hat. Und tatsächlich 1965 beim Song-Kontest-Füsch-Wäden antritt. Und er hat dort im Freund Scheit, im damaligen Vorfeld, vom Melodifestivane-Natterte, acht Songs zur Außerbekommen, sechs davon hatte, interpretiert. Zwei hat er gleich einmal abgelehnt, die wollte er nicht singen. Und Gewonnen hat damals Absent-Friend. Eine Ballade, die ganz wunderbar war, die Schweden, das war jetzt kein Hitt, das ist im Mittelfeld gelandet, aber es hatte weitreichende Änderungen. Das war in drei Punkte. - Ja. Das Mittelfeld damals, das gab ja nicht so viele Punkte. Das gab nicht so dieses Gewonnen. Das ist auch nicht mehr ein Gewonnenen. - Ach, aber es ist völlig, wo es vieler geworden ist. Dieses Lied hatte weitreichende Folgen für den Song-Kontest. So was Engelschwahr. - Es war Engelschwahr. Und es hat darauf hingeführt, dass 1966 die Sprachenregelung eingeführt wurde. Weil es war das erste fremdsprachige Lied, was gesungen wurde beim Song-Kontest. Vorher eigentlich. Es gab keine Regeln, nur üblich. - Es war einfach nur üblich. Und es wurde nie gemacht. Und dadurch, dass er es eben auf Engelschgesungen hat, weil sich die Schweden gesagt haben, mit unserer Sprache wären wir nie gewinnen. Weil im Freundschaft hat das auf Schwede schließlich gesungen, übrigens. Ist es dann tatsächlich 1966 zur Sprachregelung gekommen, die dann tatsächlich 1974 aufgehoben worden ist? Er ist übrigens zur Zählizente von 18 geworden, hat sechs Punkte. Ich hab das nachgeschaut. - Ja. Genau. Also, eine wunderschöne Baladik mag das noch immer, das Lied. Aber ich guck, ich bin ja natürlich der Mensch, der mit 60er-Songs. Ich hab keine Ahnung, ich müsste mir das nochmal anrehen. Ich kann mich nicht verändern. - Es ist kein Problem. Aber auf jeden Fall hat damals die Sprachregelung eingeführt, oder initiiert. - Initiiert. Initiiert. - Er ist der Grund. Und dann haben sie da aufgelöst, haben wir da eingeführt, haben wir aufgelöst, haben wir da eingeführt, und dann wieder aufgelöst. Also, ich wurde mit den zwei Jahren, 74, 75 und ein ganz klein wenig, noch 76 aufgewöcht und danach wieder eingeführt und dann streng durchgezogen bis Ende der 90er. Danke für die Geschichte. Wir haben welche Baroque-Oper gehen wir jetzt? Das ist immer in Semiramide. Ah, okay. Ich dachte, wir gehen jetzt in Cesarina Gitto. Merci, Scherri. Schweiß, starte die Opa. * Musik * Markus, start hosting now. * Lachen * Yes, alright. Ah, the pressure, the pressure. Missing link.