The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a left one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-720-334-Support. Yeah, what other podcasts are people listening to? I feel like we ask every now and then, but it's nice to hear when there's new stuff. So if you, you know, it really is, tell us what else you like. Yeah, because if you, honestly, everybody's always listening for a new binge-worthy podcast. What's your binge-worthy podcast? There's a show that I think we have an audience crossover with. I'm not going to say it now, but let's just say we've wanted to collaborate with them for a long time, and it's coming up. So that'll be exciting. Yeah, we hope you guys are super excited. We love collabing with other pods too. It's just really fun and interesting. Everybody has a story. Yeah, of course. I have a story. I have a McKenzie-Undercarva story, I kind of said. We want to hear it. I'm like imagining the audience and me having their own response. I'm not as McKenzie. Well, what's funny is that we were at, Hannah and I were recording at Dear Media Studios in LA, probably like a year ago, and I was like, "Oh, man, I have this story that I want to tell." And so we did content. We recorded content about the story, and then we have had the most amazing guest, you guys know. And so I haven't had a chance to tell it, and so I was like, "We need to tell this story because it's really funny." So I know like he words about it, but I don't know what actually happened. So I'm ready. Okay, so first of all, before we get into it, thank you so much for everything, for the support of our show and for the support of our guests and your kindness and your love. It means a lot to us, and we are just really grateful for you, and appreciate the way you guys listen, and our Patreoners, our sleuthies, we're just, we love you. So thank you so much. I love that. I agree. Thank you so much. And also every time you guys comment, it cracks me up. Somebody in the last episode commented, "There was been, instead of their husband, and I. I love that." I was like, "How have I never heard that?" She was like, "Yeah, that happened with my husband." You guys are how I was. That is so funny. I love that. The words that y'all come up with, their husband. Yeah, husband. Well, we want a story. Tell us, tell us. Okay. Okay. So for this story, we're gonna call our target couple, Mike and Sarah. So imagine Mike is 43, Sarah is 40, and I actually know that because the only reason I know, well, I look up their information, obviously, when I take a case, but Sarah had just celebrated her 40th birthday, and I remember talking to her about why this is sad that she's dealing with a private investigator, and she just turned 40. This was supposed to be the time of your life, whatever. Yeah. So Mike is 43, Sarah is 40, they had been married for 16 years, and had two kids, 10 and 14, the little house in the suburbs, two decent careers, pretty normal. I think what most people would describe as a normal family life, right? That sounds like statistically normal, like two hundred times kids. Yeah, a golden retriever, like the whole thing. So Sarah is a healthcare administrator. So super normal. Mike is a regional sales manager, and I'm wondering how many people just heard sales and went, uh, because you know, sales people off the travel. So there's a lot of shadowing. Okay. For sure. And I'm also imagining because that's the title of Michael Scott in the office. So now I'm unfortunately going to be imagining Steve Carrell for the rest of the story. Oh my god. That's so funny because he kind of looks like Steve Carrell, too. Great. This is awesome. This is maybe this is a spin off of the office. Hopefully. Oh, what maybe don't happen by the end. All right. So a regional sales manager named Mike. Yeah. And so it's perfect family. And again, his job requires some travel and some late dinners with clients think the occasional overnight trip. And it never really bothered Sarah. Like she's fine. She's like this. He brings in the money. They have a good life financially. She makes good money. He makes good money. Whatever. Until suddenly there's a lot of overnight stays. And it's becoming more and more frequent. And Mike is staying late at work during the week. And then she notices. And this is so common. Like so, so this is an indicator many of the times is that the phone starts going everywhere with them. They become very protective of it even into the shower, which I bring my phone into the shower because I listen to my audiobooks or I'll listen to music or whatever. But when you've never done that before and suddenly it's changing and you're hovering over your phone and you're rushing to it so that no one else can see what's going on. There's a problem. Yeah. If you're always angling away or facing it down. Yeah. And he changed the password. She said that they did know each other's passwords. But then he changed his all the sudden. All right. He's a rookie at this. He's terrible at cheating. Okay. Let's go. So then she noticed something really specific. So every few weeks he would have a client dinner with the same female coworker who is a subordinate of his. And this is someone that they work together to like they worked on the same cases together. The same I call them cases on the PI. The same client. I opportunity to guess or whatever. Whatever y'all call them in sales. Anyway, so let's call her Jessica. So Jessica's 35. So she's a little younger who works in the same sales division as Mike and Sarah had actually met her before at company event. So she knows this girl. She's met her at the Christmas party. They've co-mingled whatever. She wasn't some mysterious woman that like Mike meets at a bar. She's, you know, she was a good wife. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That's yes. So she knew he was married. She met his wife. So Jessica knows all about his life and his kids. And Sarah, by the time she had called me, she said, I don't have any proof of anything. But you know, that wife tuition, that femme tuition. I was going to say when she, did she tell you anything about what she thought of Jessica when she met her at the Christmas party? Was she? Yeah. So she says she's professional. She's very well dressed. She's beautiful. And again, she has no proof or anything that anything is going on. But she says, you know what? Just for shits and giggles, let's hire a PI. Like I want to see where he's actually going. But she doesn't mention it to him because she doesn't want to feel like an asshole if she's wrong. But also, she's like, but I still wanted to follow my gut. So I kind of wanted to follow through with this PI thing. And so she actually for a couple of months set aside little amounts of money, like a couple hundred dollars at a time. So that eventually she could hire a PI without it taking a big hit on their bank account or whatever. See, I don't, I cannot relate to being a married person that long with kids. But I don't think I could keep my mouth shut for months if I thought my partner was cheating. Like I feel like at some point I would have a glass of wine, get a little angry and be like, what's going on on your phone? No, I wouldn't be able to do it. 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[email protected] to get your first year of Monarch core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at Monarch.com with code dating. So by the time Sarah gives me a call, she gives me the whole rundown of their family, what's going on, what she thinks. And she already is telling me, I feel stupid even calling you. And actually that's really common. A lot of people will say, I feel really stupid calling you because they want to preface it by saying, if you find nothing, don't worry, I already feel stupid. So like making fun of yourself before someone else can basically, it seems like to me and guilt, they feel guilty that they're possibly accusing their house of something. So I started doing surveillance on the husband and I wanted to see, okay, let's see what he's doing. But first I do surveillance, starting from the house early in the morning, where is he going? He goes to work. What is he doing? So I want to kind of get a feel for him and his routine. I want to get a feel for his habits, how he drives, how he acts, how fast he goes does he stop to eat somewhere? Is there somewhere that he favorites as far as a store? I want to just kind of get a feel for him, right? So that's fine. I find his patterns. Yes. Thank you. I identify his patterns. So I'm keeping in touch with Sarah and I'm asking her, what are the days that he's going on these rendezvous or going out to these client dinners or having these overnight, whatever. And she starts, and she, I specifically asked her if they had shared locations and she's like, no, we don't do any of that, like, that's not anything we've ever done. And so she had never watched him or seen where he was going or whatever. So the only, the first information she was getting about where he was actually going, besides just what he was saying was me following him. So he says, go ahead. So you'd already started following him at this point, you're saying like, just on a day to day. Yeah. So I follow him for the first day. I want to get ahold of his patterns, his, his, you know, how he acts as habits, things like that. And so then I did one more day of just kind of pattern recognition and understanding what he's doing. And I follow him from work after work, where does he go, which route does he take home? And he goes straight home to her. She had told me there was nothing going on that day. Interesting. I would think, I think I'm not a PI, but I would probably just think to go straight to the day where he has the dinner with this Jessica, but it's interesting that you do the groundwork first. That makes sense. And real quick, so sidebar, one thing that is interesting and super important to know is that you will never find answers from the subject themselves. You will always find answers in their environments surrounding them, the people, places and things around them. That's where you're going to get your answers, because you'll get little answers from every little person, place and thing and you can put them together to create a bigger picture. Always. That. Yep. That makes sense. So understanding the pattern, you understand, which way does he take home? Because if another day he takes a weird route, you're like, wait a minute. Let me log back. That's weird. Yeah. And so you start tracking the things that are different. So one of the nights that I did surveillance on him where he did have a client dinner, not a stayover, but a client dinner. He goes to a property that is about five miles down the road from them. And it is not super rural, but far enough away from it. Like it'll take you 20 minutes to get to the Walmart, basically. I don't know if that helps you on LA, but here if you take you 20 minutes to get to a Walmart, you far. Yeah. I got you. So it's a spread out place. Yeah. It's kind of spread out. So she's kind of in the country. But this property is huge. Like there's acreage. Beautiful. Like, you know, it's out there. So this is a very exclusive type neighborhood. And so he goes to this house and I house he's having his his work thing in a house. Yeah. It's like this big giant property, but it's like a barn on a house. It's like a yes, it's it's it's a residence. Oh, so this is the private residence. But there's like a guest house and everything. It's huge. Like this is a very, this is very well to do property and community, whatever. So I'm like, all right. Well, this place was big enough where you would think, oh, this is a venue. This could be like a house, but a venue for some kind of event. Don't think anything of it. He goes to this house. He stays there for a couple of hours. He's home when he tells the wife he'd be home. He was like three, four hours and he's like, I'll be home by, you know, nine to ten o'clock. And he's there just as long and he goes right home. And that's what he does. Well, whenever someone goes to a residence that we're not familiar with or that I don't know what's going on, I do a little I do a little research. Who lives. Who lives here? How long have they lived here? Who owns the cars that are here? I get the tag numbers for all the cars. So because this property is so big, I find myself parking the car and just kind of taking a stroll and, you know, it's dark. I let it get dark and then I kind of walked up the driveway like it's it. It's one of those driveways where if you're going to take the trash out, you can put it on a side by side and drive it down the driveway, but it's not so big that you need a whole last truck, but maybe a golf car or a side by side, right? So it's walking down this empty driveway. Yeah. So what I did was I had a leash in my hand. So if anybody were asked me, what are you doing? I'd be like, oh, my dog ran off the leash. Oh, my gosh. So that's how big. If that gives you an idea of how big this property is. And so I just want to see what other cars are here. I got all the tag numbers. There's there's three other three cars there and then his. So I'm thinking, oh, they are meeting up. They're having a dinner at this house, like whoever's house it is. But he had told her that they were going to a restaurant, which was just outside, like it would be, if you drive that restaurant would be the first one you hit. Like that would be the first part of civilization you would see is this plaza that this restaurant and it is. Oh, so he gave a name of a restaurant and is right there, but he ended up where he is. Right. And so I'm thinking, this is so weird. But whatever. It doesn't matter what I think. Well, a good lie is close to the truth. A good lie. That's what I think. And this was literally a block away from the truth. Yes. A good lie is close to the truth. So he's at this place. I get all the tag numbers. And whenever he goes home, everything's fine. You know, I see that the cars that I ran, they all came back to one of them was a leasing company and two were registered to a woman. But the name did not match anybody that was on his comprehensive report or any known associates or whatever. And on a comprehensive report, it'll show known associates like anybody that you've been connected to somehow or like, for instance, in a workplace, it might connect the two, but it doesn't always do that. But they're also maybe just clients, but they could also be clients, right? And so that's what I'm thinking. So I'm like, okay, you know, whatever. So I get these names and the person who owns the house has the same last name as the person who owns the cars, but the first names are different. So one's a man and one's a woman. Let's call her Rebecca, but there's no other person that lives in that house. So whoever owns it is related to the woman who owns the cars, but they don't live there. She lives in the house by herself and she owns the cars by herself. And the ages were similar. So it's not dad and she has no record of marriage. So her last name wouldn't change most likely, most commonly, unless she got married. So I'm thinking this is a brother or a relative who owns the home and she lives there. Nobody else gets male there. She's the only person who gets male there. And then there was a third car registered to a leasing company. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. So that's what I've come to. But I don't like to go immediately to my client and say, this is this is this because I feel like then they start providing all this information. Now my surveillance is biased and I'm looking for things that might not exist. And it's a whole big thing. I want to paint a picture without someone telling me where the color should go. You know what I mean? Like I need it to tell itself. So he goes home and I said, I want to do another night of surveillance wins his next meeting. 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I love anything cotton is my favorite and it fits so well. And speaking of the sizing you guys I've lost 175 pounds over the last couple years and I've got a softer body and through the course of losing that weight I do notice that most of the time when I buy any kind of loungewear or any type of intimits or panties or bras it cuts into that soft skin and it just makes you feel like a busted can of biscuits. But the skims stuff actually it fits well. It's not super squeezy. It just fits the way that makes me feel confident. And so I'm in love with all of their stuff like everything I want one of everything from the website. So shop skims cotton and all of our favorite pieces at skims.com. After you place your order be sure to let them know we sent you so select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows. So he has another meeting two weeks later. It's a Friday night. He has a client dinner. He tells her again he's going to this restaurant. He does not go to the restaurant. He goes to a house. The same house. The same house. He's saying he's going to a restaurant but again going to this this residence. And does he say Jessica's involved at all or no Jessica? No he never told the wife her name. Like he has he just said a client dinner with some of my co-workers is what he says. She doesn't know that Jessica's even involved. He says co-workers and he works with a lot of dudes too but you know there's the wife has no indication of that he's cheating. She just has a feeling anyway so he goes to this house again. Same cars minus the leasing company cars and now it's just two cars. One's a small SUV and one's a little like a sports star like a BMW two-seater like whatever. Both are hers and and he's there and that's he always and he's there. So then I'm like okay so this is the same person. No other cars. No other cars show up. No other cars come. No other cars go. And I had arrived there before he did because she said he's going to meet again so I get there early. No one else had come. So no one else arrived. No one got dropped off. No one got no one with no one was taxied there. No one was ubered there. No one was nothing. And so I'm thinking should I knock on the door? Like do I want to find out some information? Well I decide that we're going to have a little fun. So I happen to know that Mondays are trash days. So he goes home to his wife. He says everything's fine and she says he came home and at this point I still haven't told her I said as of right now like I'm just let me finish my investigation. Let me find out more information and I still haven't told her that he's gone to a private residence because I don't want to. Yeah, I don't know yet. So trash is it? It's Friday night. It's Friday night. So I go Sunday night at 2 a.m. And I sit outside the house. Which house? The big house. The big house with the big driveway, the big long driveway. And I parked my happy ass out there for hours and I wait for the garbage truck. I'm like I got to I got to wait for. I want to wait to see when the garbage truck comes. So this gives me an idea of what time the garbage is coming. What's going on? So I think okay, keep going I guess I'm just I'm like trying to follow your logic. I thought you were going to go dig through the trash. Well listen, so I want to see when the trash comes and I got to get an idea. I got to get a pattern for. So this is long game, right? So I got to get a pattern. So the next time same thing, he goes to the house and then he goes home, but he was a little bit later this time. But this time, I actually was as I I was parked and I went for another walk because I went I'm trying to see if I can see anybody come out. If I can hear anybody talking, I'm trying to hear this. So I'm walking down this long driveway and it's nighttime. You can't see me like there's no lights. All you see is this beautiful mansion lit up a mile down the road. And so I'm walking on the driveway and I can see that the front door opens and I belt shit myself because I'm like, oh God, I'm going to get busted, but they couldn't see it was dark. And if they did, my dog ran back. Yeah, no, same. And so I think I'm going to get busted. And I hear her say, I love you so much. Thank you. And I'm like, love you so much. Thank you. And I'm like, who's you talking to? And I can't see who's leaving. But then I see him get in his car and leave. And I'm ducked behind a tree in the yard because I didn't have time to get out. And so I'm like hiding behind a tree. And this guy takes off down the driveway, leaving in his car. So now I know, okay, that's the subject, like the subject has left. But so now I'm like, I don't have time to run back to my car and follow him. So at this point, screw him, he's leaving. Now I want to find out who else is there. Like, yeah, who loves him so much. Yeah. And like, maybe, I maybe this is a family, like, but then why would he lie to his wife? So now I'm like, I'm already balls deep in this lady's yard. Let me go find out. So I walk up the house and I walk up to the windows and I start peeking in. Oh my gosh. A hundred percent trespassing. Like it was, I was going to say, are you allowed to do that? Okay, but if she tells me to leave and I don't, then I could get in trouble. But the first time it's like, okay, just get out. You were just looking for your dog that was home, but you didn't know that for sure. So I'm don't ever look through someone's windows. That is stocky, stocky, ish, stocky, stalker ish and croppy. And we don't do that. And that's illegal and don't do that. But I was just looking for my dog and I thought it ran into the wind. Yeah, sometimes they get confused. Okay, so you're looking into the window. And so I, all I see is this woman and she's walking through and she's got this long flowy robe on. Like really, imagine a movie scene where she's wearing this beautiful silk robe and she's walking and it's flowing behind her. That's not what I wear to client dinners. That's not what I say. And it was literally just a few minutes after he left. All right. Now we know. We know what's going to happen. So I know that the trash comes by 6 30 a.m. on Monday. So I go back again Sunday night 2 a.m. It's past midnight on Sunday night. Now it's early Monday morning. And I'm like, I'm going to go back and I had another investigator with me because I didn't know how much trash like they had she had two trash cans out before. And I was like trying to see like, I want to get these, but I don't know. But this time, so number one, now we know the pattern number two, I have somebody with me. Because if I get caught trying to take somebody's trash, I need to know, I got, I need another set of hands so I can get out that allowed to go through someone's trash. You're allowed to do that. You put it out on the road. It ain't your property. No more. That's true. Okay. So it's out on the road. And why were you so adamant about waiting until it was right before the trash got picked up just because that's the most trash that you will be because I know myself. I stay up late. And so I know that sometimes I don't get the trash out to like midnight one o'clock and then I go to bed. And so I was waiting so that it was late enough where she's done for the night. Like she's gone to bed early enough where I don't miss that where the trash kit, the trash truck doesn't come and take all the trash before I get to it. I thought you're, I don't know, I don't know what I was thinking. I was like, you want to like make a mess and then the trash guy has to come clean out. Okay, I get it. You just wanted to be late at night where she doesn't see. Yeah. And so also it's a little less conspicuous. Like, you know, the middle, by that time most people are sleeping, so less people notice. And so we're saying Mackenzie, it's pretty conspicuous. Yeah. If anybody does see, it's pretty shady. But once the garbage has been placed out for collection in a location where it could lawfully be retrieved, we collected it. And yes, I literally drove away in the middle of the night with someone else's garbage in the trunk of my SUV. I'm going to need you to walk me through that step by step and tell me. How do you choose the person to be like, Hey, what you doing? One of my girlfriends with a PI license, like we're good friends or PIs, whatever. And listen, private investigation is a very prestigious profession. Okay. Very glamorous. It's very glamorous. So we take the bags somewhere appropriate and by appropriate, I mean, just in nearby park with like a park bench and one of those, you know, you'd have a five year old's birthday party blooms and it's got this big, like it's got a picnic bench and the blue, the ony thing, whatever. And so we go to this park and we are going
through this trash and we are going through it piece by piece by piece. We have our gloves on. We're like double-gloved because it's gross going through trash, but does someone else smell? Yeah, it smells like trash and like cigarette ash. It was so gross. Anyway, so I mean food containers, junk mail, paper towels, normal like household garbage, right? And I imagine you're looking for identifying pieces of information, but I know you don't go into anything with a, you're always just like, I just am going to find what I find. I'm not going to go over the bias, but I'm curious, what is your angle for finding valuable information? I want to see. You know something's worth. Could what information is there to find? So when he goes to his client dinners on the Friday nights or whatever, and he's at her house, I want to know, what are they eating for dinner? And if they're, that nobody's ubering or door dashing, so they're cooking, something, what are they eating? So we start noticing things like products that would suggest that there was more than one person. Like for instance, there was two corns on the cob, like two, like two corncubs, right? And so you're like, okay, that's probably two people. Prop, maybe two people. And then I think there was, there was another, like a, a bone, like a, like chicken bones, but more than for just one person. And then there was just like different things where it was like, Oh, this is, this is, you know, 10 ribs or whatever. And you could just see, like little by little, we were putting, we were piecing together meals. And then there was one where it was like, it was a McDonald's wrapper with a single fry and a single double cheese burger, which I knew he didn't bring McDonald's to her house. And nobody left or came so that had to be a day when she was by herself, like maybe Saturday or whatever. So we started kind of piecing things together. We're just kind of archeology, I've ever heard. So then, then you find the receipts, they got the receipts, right? So you got like groceries and Walmart. And one of the receipts was from Walmart. And there's a pregnancy test is a, Oh, so that's good info. So this is good info. So now it's like, why are we buying an EPT pregnancy test? Like this is why? Okay. So this, that's fine. And listen, the receipt, we try not to assume y'all, because you know, assume it makes ass out of you and right could have been for a friend, could have been for a friend or your mom or whoever, right? So not total proof on anything, but altogether, this is proof of stuff, right? So then I found something that I looked over at my friend and I said, I don't know if you guys have, if you remember that commercial, it was like a phone commercial where the guy calls front, he's trying to make a collect call or something. And it was, this is back in the day when the land lines are whatever. And it says, can I ask who is calling? And so he doesn't have to pay for the phone call. He just says, yes, it's Bob. And it says, what's your last name? We had a baby it's a boy. And that was his last name. He was trying to tell his family, my name is Bob. And so he said, it says, what's your name, please, Bob? And last name, we had a baby it's a boy. Yeah. And so that was how he got away with the free phone call and told everybody that it was a boy. And so I said that I remember pulling this, this out the pregnancy test box out. And I said, oh, Bob, we had a baby it's a boy. And so and she looks at me and she's like, what? So we find this pregnancy test. So then I'm now I'm like, I'm like, what do you find the box? Have you found the test? Well, that's the thing. I didn't find the test yet. So there was the pregnancy test box. And then I found the prenatal vitamin packaging. So now I have a receipt for the pregnancy test. I have the pregnancy test box. And we have the prenatal vitamin. So it doesn't take a rocket surgeon. This girl's pregnant, right? Man, this is really making me think about what I throw away. No, it's true. Because anybody can just grab it. So at this point, I have to tell the client everything like now it's kind of like it's hard core evidence. So I actually ask her if I can come over whenever he's not home. She let's me come over. And I wanted to talk to her in person and just kind of like this. Now this is like kind of a big deal. Now this is super emotional. Like, how shitty is that, right? Yeah. So I tell her what I found. And I said, so this is what and I was like letting her draw her own conclusions. Like, I found this pregnancy test. And yeah, can you like pretend you're telling me like it's her? Like, how do you start Sarah? Hi, Mackenzie. Thank you so much. I can't wait to hear what you found about my loving husband. Well, I have to I have to warn you. It's not great. Let's sit down. I went through the trash at the person's house that he was at. He never went to a restaurant. He was at a private residence. The residence belongs to Mark Smith and the vehicles that were there belong to this person Smith. Rebecca Smith. Sure. Do these names sound familiar to you? And she's like, well, the last name sounds familiar. It sounds like I think maybe Mark is somebody he works with because that last name sounds familiar. And and I'm like, obviously, it was. She's telling me that name sounds so familiar. And I'm like, I did observe her telling him, I love you and all this stuff. And I said, so I wanted to go through the trash at the residence and just see what I could find. And so what I found was a couple of receipts for different things and meals, but one of them, one of the receipts had a pregnancy test on it. And one of the I found the pregnancy test box. Also on the same receipt, by the way, had the prenatal vitamins. So this girl already knows that that test is going to be positive because she was prepping. And she says, did he get her pregnant? And I'm just kind of like she doesn't even ask like she's not even confirming. Is he cheating on me? She says, did he get her pregnant? And I said, well, all I know is that there was a positive pregnancy test at the house that your husband visited. And she said, well, that baby can't be his. He can't got her pregnant. And I'm thinking this woman's in denial, right? And she's clearly. And I said, oh, okay, you know, like, well, that's good. You know, do you think that's not his? He's still going to the house. She says, no, he had a vasectomy five years ago. Like we decided we were going to try for another baby and we couldn't get pregnant. So he just had a vasectomy because we didn't want the kids to be too far apart in age. So that baby cannot be his. He's had a vasectomy. Hey, I've seen Gilmore girls and Suke's husband said he got a vasectomy, but he didn't really do it. Yeah, which was a crazy plotline. And we'll know. And that's true. And that's what I'm thinking too. Like, did he really not get a vasectomy? Or is that baby really not his? So my spidey senses were tingling. And this story just isn't making sense. And I'm like, why would she? And why would he? And, you know, all these things. And I'm like, well, when's his next trip? And his next trip wasn't for two months to go away overnight. And I was like, man, that's really weird. I wish he was going away sooner. And we could get more information there and figure out where he's going overnight or whatever. But then I was like, let me do more surveillance. Well, at this point, is she accepting of the fact that he's at least been lying about going to this restaurant? Well, at first, she's like, okay, like she didn't care. She was like, okay, no restaurant. What's the deal? What's the deal? She didn't care where he was. She wanted to know what she's cheating. And then it registered after. And she's like, so he's not even going to a restaurant. So he's going to a house. And I tell her where the house is. And I tell her the information. And I tell her the name. And she's like, the last name sounds familiar. But maybe it's just maybe I've just heard it somewhere before or whatever. And I'm like, all right, so she has no idea who this person is. So then I pull out the comprehensive report to go over it with her. And I'm like, okay, so tell me if any of this makes sense. Because now I'm trying to get her to confirm or deny any of the information. Maybe I'm missing something, whatever. So I look at the names of the house. And I'm looking at the names of the cars. And I'm like, why are they related? But there's no indication of marriage or anything like that. So the reason that they have the same last name is that they are siblings. They are related. Yes. But the brother is very well to do. And so he leaves her this house because his wife inherited a parent's money or something. So he bites her this house. And so he, but they put it for whatever reason they put it. But she owns her cars or whatever. So then I'm thinking we're both thinking. So she's not pregnant by her brother. Hopefully, like, right. So that would be weird. But on the comprehensive, something on her credit report showed her middle name. And so it was Rebecca, whatever Jessica Smith. And so that's her. And so I'm like, oh Jessica. And she's like, Jessica. And she's like, no. Were you able to maybe look at a picture of the Jessica that Sarah knows. Yeah. She pulled them up together. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's her. That's definitely her. So Jessica is this woman. They are having dinners while she's in a long flowy robe. She's pregnant. But it can't be the daddy. So who's the baby daddy, right? So now a vasectomy alone doesn't establish paternity or lack thereof or
prove who fathered who, but it's again, it's a very different investigation now. So we go back through the garbage that had not been collected from my house. I was gonna say, where did you leave it? You kept it? It's evidence. So we go back through the garbage, and I'm like, wait, we need to look through more. And I remember I had seen some paper work on it with someone else that I didn't realize, you know how you recognize patterns. It's like, you see something and you're like, that can't be until you see something later that relates to it and you're like, oh, now I got that feeling. Yeah, and so now I know what this relates to or whatever. And so the paper work that we found, it was a legal document for something about a legal case, like something a civil, the stupid building permit case. Somebody's stupid, that doesn't matter, stupid. And there's another name on it. And I'm like, well, let me look this guy up because if this is somebody that she's having a civil dispute with, maybe this is someone that she's on and off with or whatever, so I look him up. And this fella has pictures of her on his Facebook, not as a couple, like they could totally get away, you could get away with saying, oh, yeah, look, we're a couple, but they could also be not romantic. So they're not just kissing or anything like that, but you could spin it anyway, right? And so now we know that the girl has money from her brother. So her brother has blessed her with some of his, what do you call it, a windfall? Sure. And so we still don't know if this is the dad or not. So the wife decides, well, I want to know, is this the guy that is the baby daddy? I'm hoping he says, 'cause I don't want it to be my husband. I don't want him to father her child. Like this is crazy. That's so, yeah, I get torn because a part of me is, you could go the direction of finding the dad. Yeah, so you can prove that your husband is not the dad, but you could also be like, I need to still follow my husband and find out what he's doing. Yes. He's not getting her pregnant, he's still doing shady shit. But also, does this fella's mistress have another dude? Like, is he cheating on his wife? And his mistress is cheating on him? And I've seen that. I think I've told stories about that, like a time or two, right? You're telling me that someone who would sleep with a married man would also cheat on them? No. You don't say no. So you're not, you're not running a secret second alive. You're supporting character and somebody else is this guy. Right. And so you want to find the baby daddy. Yeah. So I want to find out, is this the baby daddy? And so I did surveillance on her. And it happened to be the same day as her appointment. What do you call him? The pregnancy checkup. I'm going to go under your overdue, I am. Yeah. And you get like a pregnancy checkup. And the guess who comes with her? Oh, no. The fella that had sued her about the property and the whatever the freaking work permit for some kind of work or whatever. And I know they have a whole thing going. Yeah. And I knew it was him because his company name is on the trucks that he met her there in. And the company is in his name. And so he's in the work truck. And his company is who is suing her for this property, whatever the hell that I don't know the word. OK. The wife asks me if it's reasonable for her to expect that this other guy is the dad. And I'm like, I mean, yeah, probably. Obviously, I ain't a doctor, but it don't take a rocket surgeon. Your husband had a vasectomy. And this other guy is going with her to the appointment. So we can kind of safely assume. And so because she hired me to do this investigation, and this is part of the investigation, I showed her the video of them going to the doctor together. And I remember that she was so-- she wanted revenge. But obviously, she's like, I got to protect the kid. So she was torn. This woman was so torn between wanting to mess his world entirely up and protecting her kids. Like, she was like, I can't do that because the kids. But also, man, I want to destroy him. So she's torn. Well, I still-- OK, yeah. But I still want more answers, like-- Does she? Or is she ready to just bulldoze him? OK. No, so no, she's ready to bulldoze him. But so she decides that she wants him to hurt as much as she hurt after finding out that he was cheating on her with this other girl who's pregnant. And for her, they could buy me. I love you. That was enough for her. Like, she's like, that's-- You've been telling me all this time, and you can't go back in time the last two years and prove whether or not he went to dinner with this girl. And so she-- She started about that time. So she-- Yeah. So she has to assume. You know, she has no choice. And so she ends up telling me that she confronted him, and he starts crying to her. But she just said she loved me, and I'm going through a midlife crisis. And you made me get a vasectomy, and hate when you tell them what they did. Yeah, they hate it. And he said, well, you made me get a vasectomy. And she's like, I wanted to have a baby. I didn't make you get a-- he was trying to say that he felt like less of a man since he got a vasectomy. And so it was her fault that he wanted to seek new sexual experiences with someone new. So thank you. Absolutely. Yes. And I can't with the audacity. Well, so she ends up, after he admitted to everything, she says, well, I got news for you, buddy. She's pregnant. She is pregnant. And so she tells me that when she told him that, he got a little hint of like, oh, really? Like excitement. She said I could see it in his face for a split second, and then he remembered who he was talking to. And she went out of there. Girl, it was so bad. And she's trying to fight back tears as she's telling me that she's sharing this with me. And she says, so I told him that she was pregnant. And then I showed him the video that you caught. And I told him that it's not his. But I think he knew that it wasn't his, because he knows he got a vasectomy. He thought that he was some magical-- he was like, I am such a man. Yeah, mother Mary pushed through the vasectomy. But before she told him that there was another, that she was pregnant by another man, and that she had gone to the doctor with this other dude, she told him, it looks like your vasectomy didn't work. And he was like, instead of saying like, oh, maybe we can try then or whatever, he was like, yeah, I guess it didn't, like as it just shoved in her face. And then she told him about the other dude. And she said that she could see his heart sink into his butt. Like he was like, OK, never when I'm busted. Number two, this other girl, she's pregnant by some other dude. And he feels doubled cross, like how dare anybody double cross me. But she was smart to not give all the cards away, because then she saw what he would have maybe done if he was his baby. And that was that he's like, oh, I would have wanted this kid with her. And that's what she wanted. And she said, what's interesting was that I never suspected him of anything until like she's like, there's just something about that sense that you get. And she's like, there's no, you can't replace that. Like there's no way to duplicate that feeling of confidence in you. I'm like, yeah, that's your good. That's your good. That's your good feeling. Trust your fem tuition, your fem tuition, never need evidence. And so I ended up recently looking her up on the public records. And she has sensed divorce, Tim. They're not together anymore. He's her husband. He's her husband. And taking that with the trash. That's what I'm saying, like he's just, he got taken out with the trash. And so I just think it's interesting that like, Barbie go and need a bigger case file. Like this is just sorting through somebody else's garbage. We got a lot to hold on to. But I thought it was interesting that the things that we saw going through the trash didn't mean anything to us until after we got even more information and then went back to it and we're like, oh, okay, now this starts to make more sense. So you never know what's in somebody's trash that could help you. I love this. This is not that all of your stories are at amazing detective stories, but this feels the most like a classic Sherlock Holmes, like looking at the minor receipt with the pregnancy test. Like the comprehensive report from the license plate, the names, what do they mean? This is just like a classic mystery. And that's the thing is that like a lot of times it's so easy to look at the names and be like, but now that I think about it, there are some things I could have done differently. I could have pulled an entire comprehensive report on him and found it, but then it would have been more expensive for the client and then I would have fallen down like chased a red herring. But anyways, it did give us the information that we wanted. But just according to the Google machine, it says in Florida, a private investigator can legally go through trash left at the corporate collection because the law considers abandoned property with no reasonable expectation of privacy. So they're basically relinquishing their expectation of privacy under the abandoned property doctrine. - Wow. I'm sure that's other places too. - Yes. - Nobody look up your trash laws. - But you cannot, if you're not hiding anything, you're fine. - PIs cannot trespass on to private property or in enclosed backyard or in enclosed garage to get a trash can. So the can or bag must be readily accessible from public property.
or the public right of way like the curbside and I didn't steal her trash can or anything I just took the bag. I think you were pick you were helping our environment you were you were collecting trash and now and I picked it up so street and I hope the garbage man that was one less that was one less trash they had to pick up they're welcome hi baby I'm gonna be honest I was not really a lotion person for a long time oh my god really okay I feel like people are gonna be like where you just dry all the time but I couldn't find lotion that didn't make me feel sticky and I wanted to go before bed but then I was like but then I don't want to put my pj's on or the sheet it's the feeling of it but oh see as amazing they're a clean seaweed power of skin care from the sea when I get out of the shower they have the dream bio retinal body serum and when you're just a little bit damp and you apply it oh my gosh it's such a good addition to your nighttime routine it visibly firms and it smooths your skin well magnesium soothes in lavender helps promote a sense of like serenity so like it smells really good it smells very earthy and clean and it's it doesn't feel like lotion to me no I use the it's the andaria algae body lotion and it's very light and I feel it's so luxurious and I do feel like my skin has healthy looking glow afterwards and it just feels so nice so go to ocia malibu.com and get 10% off your first order with code dating detectives that's O S E A Malibu.com code dating detectives you guys my ADHD is so bad and I have a hard time focusing on things especially going to the gym which is one reason that I have a hard time sticking with a workout plan or a workout program it's just it always just feels so random so there's an app called ladder that's a strength training and program app that will actually give you a real plan from an expert coach whatever you're trying to achieve ladder will give you that that plan that'll just feel good so you don't feel like you're in the gym just all willy-nilly not knowing what machine to go to next also you're if you're taking advice from a youtuber or somebody on Instagram it's not personal so you might think you're doing something good for your health but it might not be exactly what you need and that's why this is so cool because it really is like having a coach and a program in your pocket and I'm with you Mackenzie like I need somebody to tell me what to do in the gym and I've had apps before that kind of like give you workout ideas but never that's like a progressive plan specific to me it talks you through every single rep so it'll say you know go to this machine do this rep and you count them and it's I just really feel like tracking it yeah stuff like that and for a brain like mine I just can't all go to the gym and just get a paralyzed and it's just nice to know that there's a plan to follow and also think about how much a personal trainer costs this cost less than one dollar a day so it's like a lead level personal training for a fraction of what you would pay remove the guesswork with ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout no thinking everything planned for you if you have an iPhone head to ladder dot fit slash dating detectives and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan use our link and get a free seven day trial with no credit card and ten dollars off your first month if you join do we know anything about what's going on with her and her baby now no she there are pictures of her on her social media with the baby like the baby's a little bit older now but no pictures of her with the dad and no marriage record for her as far as I can tell she still lives in the house by herself nothing has changed there there's been no updates on him the civil suit was dismissed at the end of the day it was like the the civil suit never went anywhere they just dismissed it and canceled it or whatever they were just having a rough patch that couple man the dogfish got dogfish by lady dogfish no yeah and he could you imagine getting excited that you got to go pregnant when you've had a vasectomy and your wife tells you that your mistress is pregnant and she sees happiness on your face like you know how when you see no I can't imagine that scenario you have you have you ever told somebody something or confided in someone and you expect one thing from them but yes real quick look on their face that you can tell that what they're saying like you tell them about your ex and they like roll their eyes for a second they're like oh they want to be sympathetic but really they hate this guy or whatever and you can see that quick look on their face I feel like I've noticed it I'm thinking of something specific where my friend I knew she was having like some stuff with her boyfriend things weren't great and I think we had another friend and you could just see the way that she would have to wipe her little crush off her face but you knew you're like you are thinking about this other man you need to leave your boyfriend and there was no hiding it but yeah you just like get that little flash of what they're actually feeling yeah and that's the worst part I think is like it's cool and you like you break the case wide open but then you have to share the information that's shitty it is shitty but she wanted that information and you got it for her you might have been going through the trash but that man was the rat honey but he was the rat I've done the trash pool thing a couple of times yeah and I've never found anything like I've done I've done cases where I've found condom wrappers and you're like oh what I was at a town why are there use condoms in the trash like that's crazy I'll be honest to you that's kind of a common theme so I'm curious to know what did you expect me to find like what did you expect me to tell you I would find in the trash not a pregnancy test I mean I my mind did go to condoms but even that I was like does that necessarily prove anything and I didn't really know exactly what you might find other than paperwork that could maybe indicate something but if they're cheating there's not like a lot of paperwork going on yeah there's amazing that you thought to do that what's the most disgusting thing you've ever found looking through someone's trash like poop oh why I don't know people are throwing trash I don't know if they're throwing away like dog poop or if they're like pooping into the trash I have found poopy undies in the trash before like well that makes sense you throw those away yeah but other than that just you know there's condoms there's food there's just people are wild also with what they throw away it's at a control if somebody was worried about not that they're hiding anything but they don't want their credit card information or any personal health information whatever if somebody has a reason a good reason to be wary of people going through their trash to have professional advice for us other than like buy a paper shredder definitely the shredder but I will say that private dumpsters like find a private dumpster because it is illegal to dumpster dive on private property without explicit permission from the owner of the property so if you can find a private dumpster then it becomes illegal whether or not follow those laws important trash yeah but you then if you're dumping illegally like that's a crime for you that's a fine so interesting yeah so dump it somewhere else or meet the garbage can't meet the garbage fella at the end of the driveway and hand them the trash that's yeah that makes sense if you ever see somebody doing that they are hiding evidence of something they've got a body in the back there's a body in the dog something oh no wow this was a good one I am sad for her but I'm glad she's moved on from him and also a baby man and child yes and the audacity of these folks I was just I was happy to see they divorced I mean that's sad to say also now I'm thinking about this rant that's not entirely relevant because I think his excuse about the vasectomy being something that made him feel less like a man it was her fault like I think that was just him all shitting in the moment but that whole idea is so frustrating when you think about how much women go through with birth control yeah and how it affects so many things in your health and it's just kind of expected of you to be the one taking care of it and then this guy has to do one thing and he's like a big old cry baby about it and it's like I had to go have sex with someone else it's like are you kidding us yeah kidding all of us women collectively so annoying yeah but I want to hear y'all's thoughts and there's a lot of controversy a little bit surrounding the trash pick-up about trash pick-up like well that shouldn't be legal well if you abandoned your property you put it out at the road you're abandoning that property then you no longer have a sense of you know privacy and but a lot of people would say but that's still wrong or whatever I mean it's maybe but it's legal yeah the like kind of like finders keepers yeah definitely looking the ethics versus the legality is different yeah there's see that's where like private investigators versus law enforcement like we can get information under different statutes under different laws than law enforcement so where they would require to provide you know proof and evidence I just call it work-properties
And then they have to move on to what you know what I mean. It's just different for us. - Did you see the new Spider-Man movie? - Yes. You know how like he works with the police? I haven't seen a lot of the Spider-Man movies, so I'm new to the Marvel Universe. He was like really tight with the chief of police, and I was like, this feels unethical. And I'm glad Spider-Man is there to assist them, but he is getting away with a lot. And I was like, is that similar to the PI relationship sometimes with law enforcement? Are they allowed to bring you in to do things? Like if they can't swing through the buildings with spider webs, can they bring you in to do that since you're licensed? - Yes. So there are rules surrounding that. So it's like a loophole, right? I've worked for many three-letter agencies, and they like, you know, federal cases, even like the FBI, all of them. And DEA trafficking, all of that stuff. And there are things that they can say, hey, I hired this investigator to do this, and obviously it has to be within a certain, like there's laws surrounding it. So that's not exactly a loophole. But if I'm working under chapter 493 of the Florida State Statute, and they're under whatever statute they're under, and they're different, whatever work I'm doing is covered by chapter 493. So I'm not held to the same standard. So where they would have to provide evidence, I don't have to. Are they allowed to provide evidence to you that they, like if they have classified evidence on a case, and they hire you, can they share it with you? Or do they send you out blind? - Oh, that's actually a really good question. I'm not sure. So if there is information that is confidential, I know that on my side, I am bound by section 6109 of the PI statute for confidentiality and discretion. But I don't know if that means, I don't know if that covers them if they were to provide, I imagine it wouldn't cover them. I imagine there's some stuff they wouldn't be able to give me. - Interesting. If you were in law enforcement. - That's a good question. - And have worked with PI's. - Way in, let us know. - Yeah, that's actually a really good question. I would like to know that. - Maybe next McKenzie undercover, do you have any stories that have to do with assisting law enforcement? That could be interesting. I don't know if there's any. - I have enough for this. - Oh, they're bad. They're probably too, a little too dark for this. It's a lot of trafficking. Like trafficking and human trafficking and children, child trafficking and all that stuff. - I mean, I don't like that. But maybe on Patreon, if you want to share about trafficking, because it is so important that we know it's going on out there. Because I think it's so easy to ignore. - Yes. And because we don't know what to look for, nobody does. So that's why we need to educate more on it. - Oh, well, that was a really uplifting plug for Patreon. We have a Patreon if you didn't know. And we do bonus episodes there to two per month. And it's $5 a month. And we also just have a community there, where you get early access to if we do merch or events or anything. And you can talk to each other and talk to us. And if you do the $9 tier, you get all of that plus every episode with no ads. So stay tuned for whatever episode you do next. But yeah, that might be interesting. Let us know if you're on Patreon, if that's something you'd be interested in. And also as always, like we just want to hear from you your stories, your questions from McKenzie about being a PI, or anything. So comment, look us up, you know, dating to tech this podcast, Instagram, the TikTok, all the places. And you can email us. What's our email, McKenzie? - It is investigate at thedatingdetectivespodcast.com. - Nailed it. - Nailed it. - We love it. - That was really good. Oh, that guy is such a man-child. - Well, Sarah followed her gut. And so we like to end our episode by saying, as always, trust your friend's tuition. Bye.
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