Luke Bryan: Grief, Faith, and Music

Welcome to a new season of all there is. I started this podcast three years ago, while going through my mom's apartment after she died. She was still so present in those rooms, and it was hard letting them go. Just as it had been hard letting her go when she died. My mom saved everything. There were hundreds of boxes of things to sift through, including with my dad, why Cooper left behind after he died of a heart attack nearly 50 years ago when I was 10, and what my brother Carter left behind when he died by suicide 10 years later. I found grief to be so confusing and lonely, and I started asking people about their experiences because I was desperate to understand my own. Stephen Colbert was one of the first people who's wisdom helped. You told an interviewer that you have learned, in your words, "Love the thing that I most wish had not happened." You went on say what punishments of God are not gifts. Do you really believe that? Yes. It's a gift to exist. It's a gift to exist, and with existence comes suffering. There's no escaping that, and I guess I'm either a Catholic or a Buddhist when I say those things, because I've heard those from both traditions. If you are grateful for your life, which I think is a positive thing to do, not everybody is, and I am not always, but it's the most positive thing to do, then you have to be grateful for all of it. You can't choose what you're grateful for. That was the start for me. That's really how this podcast began. As for what I've learned, I talked to Stephen Colbert a couple of weeks ago on his show about that and why I'm expanding the podcast to release episodes now all year long. I shut down and I've lived for 40 years without allowing myself to feel the pain of the grief, but the irony is by not allowing myself to, and you tell me this, by not allowing myself to feel the pain of it, I also didn't allow myself ever to feel joy, true joy, because you can't have one without the other. It's only now in the last two years by, and my voice still shakes, which I'm sorry about, but it's only in the last two years by feeling this grief and this sadness that I've been able to feel joy. I have a lot to feel joy about because I've got these two little boys who are just incredible, and one of them is backstage right now watching, and so it is the greatest gift, and you kind of gave it to me early on, and other people have given it to me in the drips and drabs, every interview I've done, and the incredible thing is, the good news is, you can still have a relationship with somebody who's died, and I have a relationship with my dad that's extraordinary, and I know him better now than I ever knew him when he was alive, when I was a little kid, and I feel my dad, I feel that. I ran from grief my whole life, but I'm not running any longer. This is the new season of All There Is, and as I said, we're expanding. We'll be releasing new episodes all throughout the year. I'm also starting a weekly companion show called All There Is Live. It'll be live streamed on our grief community page at CNN.com/AllThereIs every Thursday night at 9.15 pm. We can come together there, talk grief, and not be alone. We've also set up a year round permanent voicemail for you to call. If there's something you've learned in your grief that would be helpful for others, or something you want others to know about your grief experience, let us know. The number is 404-827-1805. Wherever you are in your grief, I'm glad we're here, together. This is All There Is. Welcome back. My guest today is Country Music Superstar, singer, songwriter, Luke Bryan. He's one of the world's best-selling music artists. He's sold more than 75 million records. He's had incredible success. He's been married to his wife, Caroline, since 2006. They have two boys, Bo and Tate, but Luke is no stranger to loss. He was 20 when his older brother, Chris, was killed in a car crash. His sister Kelly died while doing laundry at her home in 2007, and years later her husband Lee died of a heart attack. Luke and Caroline took over care of Kelly and Lee's three children. Well thank you so much for doing this. What I think is so cool about you, beyond your music, is your willingness to be open about something which a lot of people don't talk about, which is loss and grief. You've been really public about it. Yeah, thanks for having me on here. I think it's helpful to always talk about it, you know? Was it hard for you to decide to talk about it? I think with the loss of my brother, you know, I was so young at the time and truly didn't know how to process it. And now, when I can relate to someone and let them know they're not alone in this and try to help people grieve and get through the ups and downs of life. You know, gosh Anderson, I am one of my most beautiful moments I ever had as a country music singer is I was in North Carolina and I'm doing my meet and greet. And you know, meet and greets, you're meeting fans and taking pictures and there's a lot of chaos, but this boy, he was nine years old. He looked up at me and he had these big tears in his eyes and he looked at me. He goes, Mr. Luke, I lost my sister a couple of months ago and I want to know how you get through life. And when that nine year old Anderson, when that nine year old told me that, it was, I dropped down on my knees and just, just did the best job I could, did the best job I could in that moment to help that young man. And I said, buddy, you talk to your sister like she is still here. You treat her. You treat her like she is here every day of your life. You talk to her when you go to bed and you and it was just, and that was, when that boy did that, it really affirmed my need to talk about my loss. I mean, when you're able to touch a kid that age, I was like, yeah, anytime I can talk about this, it is, it's the right thing to do. And there's just so much of that going on in the world. And I think, I think some people have been insulated from it. Thank God, but then the people that have tragedy, I hope they can hear our stories and understand they're not alone and their journey's with it. I mean, the fact that that nine year old boy could vocalize that and say that to you in that moment is incredible. I looked up at his parents and his parents, they went there knowing that he wanted to ask me that and, gosh, they're wanting to drive. I mean, it was one of the most powerful things that I've ever been a part of and I just did my best in the moment and it really, really changed me a lot too in that moment that I was able to help him. Brother Chris died when you were 20, he was, he was 26, right, what happened to Chris? He was in a car wreck in our hometown of Leesburg, Georgia. He was dating a girl and she was driving and both of them were killed. They were leaving a Halloween function and it was about two weeks before I was going to move to Nashville and was getting ready to start chasing my music journey and that happened and just a tremendous blow to our family and our community. I understand some family friends drove to get you to tell you. Yeah, I was out of time. I mean, that must have been, oh, it was, it was just tragic. I never will forget hearing those words that Chris had been in a car wreck and had not made it and I remember just absolutely sobbing for a, you know, around an hour and a half car ride. As first time in my life, I had felt a pain like that. I've never had any reason to just truly sob like that in, in hurt at that level. It was really my first big loss and something that I never would have predicted. The one on the planet was more exciting. about me chasing my music journey and chasing music. -I saw this picture, which was of you and Chris. This was the last photo that was taken of you, too. -Yes, he was a big country music fan. And we were in Savannah, Georgia. And we just planned to go see a Hank Jr. concert. And that was our last photo that we had taken together and our last time we spoke, it was a Friday, and we just ran into each other outside of the post office in Leesburg, and I bucked into him. -That was our last-- I mean, just a real random-- oh, just a crazy random meeting on the street. And, you know, at that time, you never know it's your last-- it's your last moment. -It's so interesting. My brother died in 1988. And I, the last time I saw him, was about three weeks before ran into him on the street in New York City on July 4th, weekend, just randomly by accident. And I think we grabbed a burger together. And as you say, you never know that it's gonna be the last time you see somebody. -Your brother, Chris, he would have been so amazed by what you've done. -Oh, man, Anderson, it's-- and I'm sure you do this, too, with all of your successes and everything that you've done in life. You try to put them in the place. You try to imagine them being there. He was a huge outdoorsman. He loved to hunt and fish. And the fact that he and I could have enjoyed all of the amazing outdoor opportunities together and the fact that we-- we've missed out on that. It's something that I think about anytime-- anytime I'm on a big fishing trip or a hunting trip, you know, I just kind of try to imagine what would it be like with my brother here and what his trophy room would look like because of-- because I would have invited him on all these amazing opportunities that I've gotten to go on. We had just started connecting. For my whole life, I had been the little pesky brother that was kind of always in the way and wanting to hang out with all of his buddies, and he was always like, "Get out of here, Twerp." And now-- That was my role, too, actually. But that was another element that really I live with is the fact that we were just starting to talk about things that young men talk about together and doing things together as more sibling light. I remember him laying on his bed and he was just so-- he was so enamored that I was actually going to roll the dice and go to Nashville. It was almost like he was just so proud that I was so crazy enough to go do it. And I remember him going like, "Well, what are you going to do, night one?" Like, "What's your plan?" And I never will forget that conversation with him because I could tell that it was like the first time I made my older brother really proud that-- I guess that I had the balls to go do this, you know? So it was a really special moment. I so relate to what you're saying though about. I had always imagined as a kid, like my brother and I-- my dad died when my brother was 12, and we never talked about it. And we kind of grew apart. But I had this idea in my mind that one day we would connect as adults, and he would have kids, and I would have kids. And we would connect in a way that we didn't really as teenagers because I had that feeling of like, "Man, one day we're going to be really good friends." And we're going to be there for each other. He died at 23, and now that I have kids, I feel that a lot. When you think about 23 and 26, when we're in that age bracket, we don't realize how young and how much life was left, you know, at 26. I mean, it's like-- it's just mind-boggling how young that is. I just want to play a little bit of songs I never heard. ♪ And you'd sing with me ♪ ♪ We weren't just killing times, singing, killing time ♪ ♪ It was a soundtrack of our lives ♪ ♪ Chasing girls and growing up a lot about living a little about love ♪ ♪ Time marches on, there's a lot of new music and memories we'd be drinking to ♪ ♪ I think about it and I laugh until it hurts ♪ ♪ 'Cause I can hear you singing along to songs you never heard ♪ ♪ ♪ -I love that. -Well, well, yeah, I mean, it's kind of getting me listening through it. I was out on the road touring and the co-writers that I had, um, we were just sitting around talking about classic songs. And the idea was totally born out of, like, oh, my God, I can't believe all of these amazing songs that my brother missed, these iconic country music songs that I knew he would have loved. It was just a really, really powerful idea, and it is funny, Anderson. I do get kind of tapped as the fun guy, the guy that likes to party, but I am proud of country music that I can sit down and write a song like that. 'Cause it helps myself, you know, it helps me talk about it and it helps, so, helps my fans out there. -I just want to play one more part of the song I sang you never heard. ♪ I'm the world I'm the baby ♪ ♪ I find in my whole mind ♪ ♪ My heart aches if we all know ♪ ♪ We'll be in the water ♪ ♪ And wait, baby ♪ ♪ Killing time singing, killing time ♪ ♪ It was a soundtrack of our lives ♪ ♪ Chasing the rules and growing up ♪ ♪ A lot of our living and a little alone ♪ ♪ Time marches on, there's a lot of new music ♪ ♪ And there's nothing to lose ♪ ♪ I think about it, I'm having tears ♪ ♪ 'Cause I can hear you singing along ♪ ♪ The songs you never heard ♪ ♪ The songs you never heard ♪ ♪ Oh ♪ I love you saying mama claims it, but we all know you'd be my number one fan. He would have been your number one fan. Yeah, he would have. I don't think my mother got her feelings hurt when she heard that line 'cause she kind of feels as if I'm white, dude. You were invited to perform the Grand Ole Opry in 2007. Your older sister Kelly, how many tickets did she buy for friends and family to come and see you? I think the final number was more than 120 that she put her personal credit card. And did they give you a discount or anything? You know what, I don't know. What was funny is before I'd go on stage in between the segments, they do real live radio ads and my sister's last name was Cheshire. So the guy at the MC goes, "I want to thank Cheshire tours." They thought she was a touring group because they had bought so many tickets and so all the friends, they were all sitting in one section and they jumped up and started hollering 'cause it was just a funny moment. It was real, definitely an amazing memory. And that trip, that was the last time you saw her. Yeah, I mean, that day would have been April 6th and I think it was almost one month to the day that my sister passed away. I never could have imagined that our last photo would have been taken in the lobby of the Grand Ole Opry right after I had done my first perfume. She was 39. I would have been 31 at the time and I'm sure you fell dealing with death and tragedy. They're all different. They take different forms and they become different things. And I've never really explained what happened to my sister. You know, there's some misinformation out there on the internet and I think some people kind of like wonder what happened and they think that we've tried to cover it up. There is a very, very small percentage of people that die for no reason in the world. And it's called Sudden Death Syndrome. And that's essentially what they described my sister's death as she was in her home doing her laundry. And it was Anderson. You know, somebody just turned the switch off on her and it was just tragic beyond words. Did it take a while to get that result, the diagnosis? Because there were some -- there was articles saying that there were a number of autopsies that were done. Yeah, yeah, we had obviously we wanted to know what had happened because there was so much, there was just so much unanswered questions. And we wanted to know, was could there be a family history of something that her children might have or may have your typical findings of an autopsy of someone 39 would be an aneurysm or an embolism or a blood clot of some kind in everything was inconclusive. She had a pretty severe like orbididane injury. So whether she fainted, when I think she may have went into the floor and kind of knocked herself out, my nephew was three at the time and I just think if someone could have been there, maybe, maybe her chances of surviving would have been, would have been a lot better. She really was a gist of, she was everything in our lives. She was a mother of three children and she was, I mean, the best mother you could ever dream of and we all leaned on her for so many things and it's hard to really wrap your brain around. It doesn't make any sense. And it was so different than my brother because my brother, you can conceptualize a car accident, but you can't really conceptualize someone that was 5, 11, 130 pounds healthy as a horse. And she's just gone and I, I'm even sitting here talking about it with you. It's just hard to think about my parents having to go through that. I mean, it's just, did you feel like you knew how to grieve more by then? Anderson, my grieve process with my sister was massively different than my brother. I think me still being kind of a young man. I didn't properly grieve my brother. And with my sisters, being able to have her children and look into their eyes and see my sister has been a much more helpful process. I can see her in them. I can see mannerisms in them. I can see, I can see so many tangible things in my nieces that are my sister. I was in St. Louis when I found out she had passed away. And it was much, it was much the same situation of me just sobbing uncontrollably. I remember when I, when I got to my nieces, I just kept screaming. I was sorry to them. I kept saying I was sorry. And they were, they were too little at the time to understand that I was just telling them I was sorry because I couldn't believe I was so sorry for them that they were going to have to go through this life without the beautiful human being that she was. I was, I could not, I could not understand how these kids were going to go through their life without the best mother on the planet. And I remember my nieces going, "Ukulu, you don't have to say you're sorry." I don't know. That was just the word that I kept saying to them. And it was, it was a lot. And still is, you know, now that we're, you know, and, and one of the most amazing situations I've ever had happened to me is the morning of her funeral. The morning of her funeral, I mean, Anderson, I don't know, I don't know how to vocalize what I was feeling. I mean, the nausea, the, I did not want to go in the funeral home and see my sister. I was just really not, not processing this whale. And the fact that I knew at five o'clock p.m., I was going to walk in that, that, that funeral home and have to deal with this. It was just really, I just wasn't doing well with it. And we get in a car and it's, of the sensation you get in the car and you know that this has got to happen. And Anderson, when I walked in the room, I would, and, and I'm a pretty spiritual guy and I'm pretty grounded in my belief in Christ and Christianity. And I would say it was the first time in my life I felt a spirit of another world take away my burden in that room. When I saw her, it was like something, it was almost like a pressure valve released. And, and I just feel like between, I don't, I can't explain it. It was truly like she let, she sent me free in that room. And you know, my mother did not have that experience. And, and, and I think I was the only one in the family that had that experience. But I really had it and had prayed. What a blessing. It really was. And I'm not saying it, it made it all go away. I'm just saying for whatever reason, when I felt that emotion, it was really something I'd never, I'd never experienced. I mean, I'm pretty pragmatic in my Christianity. We were a pretty conservative Christian church where we didn't hoop and holler and, and hold our hands and prayer. But when I felt that, it was, it was, it was really something that I did feel a spirit in her spirit kind of released me from that. And I think it allowed me to focus, I think it allowed for me to focus on her husband Lee and it allowed me to focus on her children and it freed me up in that level to get to work on doing what we needed to do for the family. Yeah. When you go and talk about it, I mean, it is a lot to unpack. And I think it's amazing we can sit here and unpack. Every time people use a word, I shudder, which is closure, right? I think you can, you can figure out how to walk with grief. You can figure out how to develop a relationship or a companionship with it if you're lucky. But I don't, I don't think it, there's such a thing as closure. I think that's kind of a made-up TV word, but what a moment to experience. I mean, that's, that's, it's just incredible. It gives me chills to hear you talk about it. And I'm so glad you had that experience. Well, yeah. And closure, yeah, it's, it's closure is not the word. I would say for me, it was more peace. It was more peace in the moment. I mean, watching my parents go through this twice is just not fair. My mother is a very, very emotional person. And she, she grieves their loss way differently than my dad. My dad grieves as Southern gentleman do, you know, my dad locks it in. And my mother is forever changed how she walks through life. And it's, it's stuff that she and I really talk about weekly when she calls me and having bad days. And yeah, I don't think closure's more, I tell people, you're just never going to arrive back to where it was when they were here. You're just, you just have to learn to understand that it's a normal emotion that life, your life will never be the same. And closure's not my word. I think that I live every day going, you know, true pieces of my heart and soul and mine were taken, never to be given back. And I think you have to be, you have to be ready for that and ready to try to get through. And well, I've more of my conversation with Luke Bryan in just a moment. But first, if you want to listen or watch past episodes of the podcast or connect with other listeners, you can visit our community page at senan.com/allthereis. That's where you can also watch our new weekly companion show. All there is live every Thursday night at 9.15 p.m. Eastern. Senan.com/allthereis. I'll see you there. We'll be right back with more from Luke Bryan. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life Podcast. We're going to talk about rethinking how we die, how we think about death in the first place greatly informs how we live. Our guest is Dr. BJ Miller. He's a hospice and palliative care physician. We are aging as a people. This is a worldwide phenomenon that we are aging and therefore getting closer to the end of life on some level as a group. It's not at all surprising that you'll see a revving up of interest, services, and also sort of anxiety that pushes us away from the subject and makes us cling to life. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts. I want to play a song called "Drink a Beer" which you sing in honor of Chris and Kelly. ♪ Funny how the good ones go ♪ ♪ Too soon but the good Lord knows ♪ ♪ The reasons are wild, yes ♪ ♪ Sometimes a greater plan ♪ ♪ It's kind of hard to understand ♪ ♪ Right now it don't make sense ♪ ♪ I can't make it all make sense ♪ ♪ So I'm gonna set right here ♪ ♪ On the edge of this pit ♪ ♪ And watch the sun set this pit ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ And drink a beer ♪ - I saw a performance where you did that and you got up and turned and there was a photo of Chris and Kelly. It's beautiful. - Chris Stapleton wrote that song. Chris Stapleton and Jim Bevers. And when I look back over the years and I have seen country music fans, I'm talking about the smallest lady, the smallest lady at Five Rose Bat overwhelmed with emotion to the biggest burliest, you know, the biggest, burliest country dude sitting there crying at that song. It's been, it's been the most amazing song in my career for that. And I tell you, there are nights that I get out on the road and I'm tired and sometimes I just can't be a hundred percent. Every time I've ever sang that song my whole life, I've always given it. I've always given it my all for the people in the audience to feel it that way. And it's the reason why I moved to Nashville to hear songs like that, and to record them and really, really use music to help people heal. And what is more honest and tender and sweet than just the memory of drinking a beer with somebody? One of my last memories of my sister was her drinking a beer watching the children play in the yard. To see my sister with the contentment of like her being in her dream, watching her children play and sitting there with her brother. It was pretty special and watching my brother come to me going, hey, Luke, let's go, let's go put a boat in and I'll ice down a couple beers and share in a beer with my brother and Lord knows how many beers I had with my brother in law Lee. It was just a perfectly written song and it's been an honor to be able to sing it and help people through the years. Kelly's husband Lee, you were friends with Lee, I understand from the time like you were eight years old. And is it true? I read this somewhere that you always knew that your friend Lee would marry your sister Kelly. When you were a little kid, is that true? Yeah, we just knew it. They were high school sweethearts. He was a very, very important and pivotal person in my life and he was as much of a brother as Chris was to me. Lee died a few years after Kelly. Lee was 45, 46 and passed away in the same home that my sister passed away in and just had the heart attack that you know the massive heart attack. Just another unbelievable scenario that that happened to him and those kids in that family and you've said that in some ways it was the hardest for you. It was because at this point in life, you're going, it's going on here, God, what have we done? What have we done to have to have this happen, you know, and then you start getting pretty mad and sadly you get selfish because you're like, why is this? Why us and I just didn't understand why these children have to be going through this and it was just it was a tough thing. It was a really tough thing on my life, my life really had a great connection with Lee, it happened over Thanksgiving breaks. We were all in town celebrating Thanksgiving and the fact that one Friday night he and I are building a bonfire in the next Saturday morning. We were in his front yard, I was taking my two little boys to go deer hunting and we were sighting in a deer rifle and I gave him, I gave him my high five and said, I'll see you, you know, after dark. I pulled out of his driveway in 15 minutes later he is, he is not with us anymore and it just hit me like a ton of bricks and I just been putting situations where I try to really appreciate every day and appreciate every moment that you can. With people and people that you love and I just still still a head scratcher. Why couldn't we have known that he was having some heart issues or why didn't it show itself a little better but man it was a it was a pretty tragic day. You do something extraordinary you you adopted there are three children and the youngest till I think was 13 years. It's just what you do is family and I guess you go into like a tribe instinct and you you do what you can to kind of make it to be in 13 he just expressed that he wanted to come to Nashville with us and the girls you're in college and then Chris she was essentially a junior in high school so we didn't really want to uproot the girls. But he'll you know it wasn't necessarily an adoption more like we were we had to sign paperwork that he's he's our responsibility and watching him come into our home and have to grieve the loss of his dad was really really tough and to watch my wife step up and do. The work that she had to do was one of the most impressive things I've ever seen one of the things I heard you talk about is is that you kind of get to see the relationship you had with Chris playing out in the relationship that till has with your two boys and like the cycles of history repeat which I'm obsessed with. Well you know Anderson I think you have to find silver linings in all of this all of this loss and you have to you have to appreciate the silver linings in my oldest bow and till I mean it is all brotherly it looks it looks and smells just like two brothers complaining and fighting in in wrestling and giving each other a hard time but with take my 15 year old until. They have a really special bond and I can't imagine a household where till would have never grown up in and I mean it's just been a it's just been a blessing and a silver lining to have him and to to watch the girls go through life and become mothers and and get through life daily has been pretty inspiring to I'm really proud of them and I think the tricky part of this Anderson you know I don't tell them enough how proud I am. Of them like I'll tell you that I'm proud of them but I need to sit down and look them in the eye they don't need to come watch this interview with you they need to you know I need to say I'm proud of how they've navigated life does the grief get worse for you does it get better for you. You know I think it's ever changing I think the grief comes and goes in in waves I think the grief comes and goes and I'm doing in my journey in life on the days that I'm confident in all this I think the grief is better and I think on the days where yeah I can envision my sister with me and I can envision my brother and my brother in law with me and I can envision. I think what might have been and what what would Kelly and Lee say about their grandchildren I mean it it it's very hard to go there in your brain so I think in a lot of those cases the grief is worse because you just want so bad for them to be in this journey with you and they can't and you and at the end of it I have to believe the only way. That I can make it through is to believe that their own the other side and. we will be reunited one day and it will be all it will be all well again and it will be It will be like it should be and I have to live with that faith that it will be that way and um I think if I can ever and that is the promise of faith that is the promise and and Anybody that's lost their faith And listen, well, you know, you know the deal. I mean, there's countless religions and countless ways to go about Your grief, but I always want to stress to people Be you have to believe you'll be with them again or you're just gonna have to believe that and and and be strong in that and be Confident in that are you gonna get are you gonna be mad at You're gonna be mad at situation. You're gonna be mad at God of course, but really at the crutch of it You know at the heart of it believes You'll be with them again, and I think that's how I've really tried to Get through this life. I try to tell people When I see a 85-year-old lady I just want to you want you want to walk up to him and put your arms around him because you know that life life has Delted them of these blows and some people are lucky some people don't have it to the extent that you and I have it Some people have it way worse. I mean good Lord You've reported on things that are way worse than our scenarios and You just hope that those people that they have the faith They have the faith to understand that they'll be reunited again and and that's how I get through this thing I think if I if that faith waivers You know a lot of other things waiver and my grief Become stronger and my grief becomes more challenging, but I Like to Look at someone that's live a long healthy life and go Life's life's been rough on them too. You're not alone. Yeah. Yeah, I mean Everybody you meet has been on this road or we'll be on this road and and everybody who has ever lived has been on this road and As alone as as one might feel as alone as alone as I often feel It gives me great comfort to know I'm not alone and and Yeah, I think there's great beauty in that Wow You know no one gets out of this thing. We don't get out of this thing alive And I Think we have to be careful and never forget that and understand that Every day means something and every day is special and Every day that you can love on somebody, you know show some love to people I think it's very very important. I've actually had a weird little funky day-to-day or I've been down in the dumps, but You you just have to get through it and and and Impress on because like you said we are all in this thing together We're not we're not insulated. We're not protected and the only thing that really helps is us Understanding that we're we're all humans together and we all do things we all process things differently I mean when I look at me and my wife's differences of how she's handled all her grief It is way different than me and I have to respect her for her version of it She has to respect mine and then we have to we have to meet in the middle with it, too You must count your blessings every day that you walked into the dingus bar all those years ago Well, I do I don't know I know because she sounds pretty awesome Well, I don't know anybody that could have done what she's done I mean she goes into life thinking she's marrying a country music singer and the next thing You know, she's Helping the girls and the boys and deal it still putting up with my antics. It's been an amazing journey And it wouldn't you know, it couldn't have gone on without walking in that bar at Georgia Southern and even on her side of the aisle You know, she lost her brother and sister Lost a young they lost a seven-month-old baby And we've had to watch them deal with grief losing a seven-month-old's very close to us and we love them or it's It's just life is hard out there. It's tough and I just hope I'm so honored to get to share this with you In in hoax of help of people through and I think it's really amazing that You've taken your journey. I mean you and I grew up in crazy different backgrounds in life I mean when I read your story and how you grew up and what you've done and I mean It's is is is how far apart we are from whatever Grief grief is coming for us. Well, Luke. I got to tell you I've done a lot of interviews And you don't have to be out there talking about grief, but I just think it's It's so incredible Your ability to talk about it and you're willing to talk about it. I am incredibly grateful For this conversation. Thank you. We all have to we all have to you know bond together and help each other through it And I think it's impressive that you're doing this and thank you Next week on all there is my conversation with legendary documentary filmmaker Ken Burns He's brought history alive on public television through extraordinary series like the Civil War The Vietnam War baseball and jazz, but his personal story of loss and his ability to give voice to it is Truly remarkable and I can't wait for you to hear that interview There'll be something really great that happens a great award a great wonderful thing Yeah, and I can't do that. You know, it's almost in a way, and I don't know if this is your experience But you're disrespecting if you let go of there of the whatever Internal sadness you're supposed to have or just the sense of loss or whatever it is, but I but I know I have at times glimpsed And gone, wow, this is great, you know and other and most of the time it's you know, what's the next thing? Yeah, you know, but it's interesting because I keep saying myself like they would not want me to be unhappy they would not want me to feel disconnected and yet I do think there is that element of like If I let go of this right then you're betraying them in some way. Yeah, they disappear altogether That's next week on all there is join me every Thursday night at 9.15 p.m. From my new weekly companion show called all there is live It'll be live streamed on our grief community page at cnn.com all there is Every Thursday night 9.15 p.m. We can come together there talk grief and not be alone You can also follow us on our new Instagram account all there is and the number again for our new voicemail box 404-827-8105 Wherever you are in your grief. I'm glad you're here Get ready for election night CNN is available to stream live now with an all-access subscription plus get exclusive content and interactive Q&As with CNN's journalists Subscribe now visit CNN dot com slash all-access