Lukas Gage

Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert. I'm Dak Shepherd. I'm joined by Monica Padman. Hi. We have an actor with an incredible story and we're blessed with his memoir, which is I wrote this for attention. Today we have Lucas Gage on and, uh, you know, wild story, right? Really wild and he was very open with us and it was really lovely. Yes, incredibly vulnerable. Uh, he was in the white lotus euphoria, you Fargo smiled to and, uh, he has a new movie out now on Netflix. Voice mail for Isabel. Great movie. Great movie. Say that. Great movie. Great. Please enjoy Lucas Gage. You smell really good. Yeah, you do. You do. Was I so weird to you at that barbecue on Sunday? Oh, no, let's start with me apologizing to you. No, I apologize. I feel okay. No, you know, pull your microphone on. Let's start. This is already exciting. So you and I were both at a party. Yeah. Uh, thank you. Sunday. You want to out who it was? We love him. Oh, Phineas. Okay. Yeah, we were having Phineas's party. Yeah. And you were there and we said, hi to each other and you said, oh, I'm doing the show this week. And I said, I know I'm really excited. Yeah. And then I was like, I got to get the fuck away from this guy immediately because I don't want to talk to you. That's what I discover a bunch of fun stuff about you and then have to replicate that today. And then I left the party. I was even talking to Ryan. Do you know Ryan Hanson? You know, I know who he is. I saw you with him. Yeah. We then were together the rest of the day. And I was just a whole day. I was like, I'm so worried that Lucas thinks I'm a dick. But I just was so, like, I don't want to blow our wild. I'm really glad you made that move because then, yeah, this whole episode had just been repeat. That's what I felt, though. I was like, really, that I felt like I was being a dick to you. Oh, no. You talked to Kristen a bunch, right? Yeah. Kristen was great. She was so lovely. And then I was like, I need to like make up for being so weird about like that. I was holding a taco and I didn't shake your hand because I'd call go in my hand. Oh, no. I didn't notice any of that. I was hyper aware that I didn't want to blow my load before our podcast. And then I was very mutual. Yeah. I'm glad. I'm sorry. I was neurotic about the fact that you're like, what a dick. Like, hey, I'm doing your show this week. I'm like, go see you later. No one wanted to just say, like, we shouldn't talk because we're gonna have to save it. Everyone felt too scared. I probably should have just said that. I don't even know that I connected what my impulse was until after the fact. Like I don't even know of a matte moment. I knew. I don't think I did either. Yeah. I thought about it later. I was like, maybe that's why I was so awkward with them. I was so aware. And I feel like I have this weird pair of social relationship, but you guys have listened to your podcast. Oh, yeah. Oh, we love that. That's so funny. That's a weird kind of balancing act of like, do I talk to them before? Do I tell them that I don't know? I love that. I'm glad we had the same experience. Yes. And you know it's really funny. Luke says that we've had guests arrive like really early and they've been neurotic about now wanting to talk to me. And I have said to them, don't worry. We'll have plenty. Like, you don't need to worry about blowing even letterman kept going like, oh, it's good inside. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He is like, letterman was like worried. We were gonna blow stuff. Well, he's the master of conversation. Of course. So he knows. Yeah. He knows. Yeah. But also it's Dave Letterman. I bet we'll be fine. Yeah. That's nice. No, even he has those anxieties. Yeah. That's nice. Isn't it comforting? That is comforting. Yeah. All of us are terribly insecure. Yeah. Well, your wife made me feel a lot better about it. I talked to her about my insecurity about it. She told me that she had a very nice chat with you. She was lovely. Yeah. And I think she told me she said like, oh, well, don't worry, Dex will make sure you're fine. You didn't say that. And I will. She was basically, and then she was like crocheting the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life. Oh, I know. She's making like a bandana thing point out. Yeah. She's like really intricate though. I know. She'll also do that like on a roller coaster, right? There's no place. Yeah. She could be on the back of a motorcycle. I want one. I really want one. You want to learn? No. I want her to make me one. Okay. But we also met in Austin. I'll never forget it. Okay. Tell me first. I'll say I've never seen someone be so composed at a Q&A as you were. You blew my mind. It was the most nuts Q&A. What was it? What was it? It was the counter McGregor thing. You were there for Roadhouse. Were you an audience? That was a crazy premiere. That was just wasted. Yes. Yes. Please give me your perspective. Because Monica and I have ours. We were there. We experienced it. But please give me your perspective. And we'll both be running the risk of getting beat up by counter McGregor. I already got in trouble for saying that he fucked my back up and he got mad at me. Oh, I'm in a loving way. I was glad that he beat me up on set. I was like, that's so cool. I love that. I could say counter McGregor fractured my disk. You're in a list of very tough people. Totally. No, I felt really cool and I meant it as a compliment. I just remember being next to Post Malone, Jake Joe and Hall and counter McGregor and being like, what the fuck am I doing here? I don't belong here. And I remember you were so sweet. Maybe you're just a good person. I think you could feel how nervous. I was and you said something about, guys, have you seen Fargo? This kid's really good at acting. It was so you were spectacular. That's Fargo. Do you remember the fucking goofy golfing dorky husband? Oh, I know. I know. So good. Thank you, guys. You're just like every time the guy talked, you're like, oh, fuck. I would. And that was such a good season. It was a great season. That was the bad. It was so good. That was a good season. Thank you. But you were so sweet. And I just remember being completely and over my head. I was in over my head as well. I couldn't tell you were so composed. I don't know how you pulled it off. Well, to set the contact. So we got invited to after a screening of Roadhouse Q&A with the cast. And then I said I would do that if we could interview Connor. Yes. So we had done that earlier in the day. Connor and Jake together. Okay. We did have a really sweet moment at the end of that interviewer. I was encouraging him to embrace the kid who got beat up who then pursued this because he had been humiliated. And remember that boy and let the other boys know that it's okay to be that boy. I just begged him. I'm like, so many dudes look at you as the apex of masculinity. You have a great opportunity. Just urge you to share the vulnerable stuff. And he like connected with that. He also started drinking in the interview. And it was pretty early in the day. And I just was more like, wow, this is going to be fascinating to see how he. Oh, he manages this day. He's got a lot of day ahead of him. I know he's got a lot of press and then we've got this screening. So we go off and fuck off and have some barbecue and we do whatever. And then we go to the Q and A. Which I know you go to the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I have this whole thing where I try to go in the bathroom. Security stops me. The bathroom's blocked off. But then it's him and then he lets me in. Says, I know that was like just stage one of like this. And then we were seated one row behind them. And I was just staring at them the whole screening, right? He also travels with a crew. So many people and everyone was having a lot of fun. Yeah. He has his own whiskey, right? So he's drinking a fifth of what I did notice at one point. I'm watching him drink whiskey and pour glasses for people. And then I notice the bottles gone, right? And I watched him open the top. So I was like, okay, a fifth of whiskey has been drank during this premiere. New bottle comes out. I'm watching some other stuff that I'll say I'll get sued for. But I'm making some assessments about what all's going on. Yeah. But the time we get on that stage. And I think I even said to Monica that I was walking out. I was like, well, let's see what this is going to be like. And then you feel like it. I was like, you're in the movie. I have nothing to do with that movie. So I'm already dealing with that like, are people like, why is this guy doing this? He wasn't in the movie. Quite quickly Connor takes charge. Yeah. And it's a live audience. And when I'm asking certain cast members questions, he's answering. I'm now like, how do we play this? I know what I would normally do, which is I would start making fun of this person gently who is on stage and everyone's feeling this. And also it's Connor McGregor. And is he going to fucking kick my ass in front of everybody? Talk about the stakes being the highest, I think, because you have the on stage component. And then you have the, is he going to beat me up if I make fun of him? And then I did start gently making fun of him. I said, the woman in the cast, I was like, I'm going to ask you this question. To Jessica, I remember Jessica, but Connor is going to answer. Yeah. And everyone starts dying laughing. And I'm literally like, is this the moment he turns and looks at me with that haunting look in his face? It just comes after me. But he laughed. No, he didn't hear about it. And I'm like, okay, we got away with that one. And then it was just me trying to pepper in some jokes, acknowledging that we had all lost control of this Q and A, because Connor was up there. The craziest thing to have been right afterwards was he had hugged me. And he was trying to connect with me over that kind of moment we had had in that thing, which is beautiful. Yeah. But I also can't understand what he's saying, because he's a very thick Irish accent. Maybe it was a little drunk. I'm having PTSD from all the times I've been around tough dudes who are too drunk to know they're repeating something. And then they catch you catching them. And then they want to fight. Totally. So my home I'm navigating is we're embracing. This is so stressful. And then by the grace of God, his manager passed out. I was about to ask. Yes, this is a hospital, right? Funny. I thought about this two days ago. This is so sick and weird. It just popped in my head that that was scary. Yeah, it was scary. Someone like ran out to you. Someone's having maybe a seizure in the audience. And then thank goodness that happened. Not for that poor person. So I can't believe that was the end of that. But Connor was what I know. Like he was in rescue mode. Oh my god. From the second he like on me, I remember just looking at him, I'm like, "Let's get the fuck out here, we gotta go." Because I've not gotten beat up yet. I was so scared. I was like googling later what happened to this guy. Let me do it. It was like dehydration or something. I saw my breakfast and he was fine. Totally fine, I never say, yeah, completely. He's like, "It happens every time I go out." But I'm trying to remember if it was you. I think because that whole thing happened, then the next day a lot of guys were checking out from the movie and I was out there checking out and then I was chatting with some guys. I didn't want to say I think I was talking to you. I think I was talking to you, yeah. And someone on the set was telling me that what they figured out while making that movie was that he had arrived with a bodyguard. And at first everyone in the cast assumed, "Oh, people probably try to fuck with him. That guy's here to protect Connor." And then it started occurring to everyone throughout the shoot. Oh no, that guy's here to protect us. Wow. Wow. What a way to go through the world. I mean, one of the experience, yeah. The most insane experience of all time. And then just throwing in Jake Chill and all, Donnie Darko was my shit as a kid. So I'm like, just trying to keep it together and not a fangirl over him and not get killed by Connor McGregor at the same time. So lots of balance. Jesus Christ. Yeah, stressful. So stressful. And it's like, "Liaman, so it's also a wild drifter." Everything changes every minute. Yeah. Was it that the craziest work experience ever? The craziest I've ever had, but the best experience. And I remember Jake saw me getting a little like frustrated in the beginning and not knowing what to do and just holding on to my preparation too much and trying to be like the good student. And he was like, "Treat every take like a rehearsal." Nothing matters. Everything's going to change. We're just rehearsing. Oh, cool. Now like, kind of changed my whole whole mind. Then I was fine. Oh, okay, great. Then I was good. He's lovely. He's great. It's also a very machismo set, right? It's like, "All the guys are going to be sure this. We got to be jacked." Yeah. And the conner's around everyone's fucking even more tripped out. Yeah. It was insane. It was like a fight camp and Dominican Republic. That's so much pressure. I can only imagine how that experience would have gone for me at your age where I am that movie and conner was there and then let's say I was drinking to. I want to go through the whole thing without some. I'm glad they've gone down. I would be here with like an eye patch on, probably. Oh, speaking of you, a very nice teeth. Oh, really? They're fake. They are. They're fake. I got them knocked out. How did you get them knocked out? I got chumped when I was 18. What? Finally scars in my face. Oh, my God. Yeah. Sounds very traumatic. You're smiling very hard. Oh, no. Because you're so happy to have gotten the teeth. I love my fake teeth. I love my busted veneers. No, no. That's my go-to. I like laugh about the most fucked-up shit and cover it up with a smile and talk about the most mundane things as it's very emotional for me for some reason. But yet, I was at a party and got chumped. My friend got beat up for being gay and I think there was maybe some part of me that was subconsciously. I was an out or anything, but I was protecting him and myself, I think. Yeah. And I jumped in and guys just beat the shit out of me. Oh, my God. How many guys. Is this a San Diego party? San Diego party. Yeah. Explain the dudes. Are they surfer dudes? Are they fucking glamestudes? They were like somewhere in between. They were like rich kids that were a little broy and a little, a little mega vibes, I think. Uh-huh. And yeah, I don't know. Did you watch Veronica Mars? Of course. They saw it in the ocean side. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Kind of Jason Dorin's crew, it sounds like. Kind of rich. Yes, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was very much the vibe in San Diego. He just got beat up for being gay and I think I was wearing a pink tank top and called him a f***. And I was like, "You're the f***, you're wearing a pink tank top." Uh-huh. And I didn't go out. I didn't knock out well. Oh my God. Oh my God. So, yeah, five guys against me, like broke my teeth, broke my nose, broke my orbitals. Oh my God. Oh my God. That's why I have a very punchable face. No. I do. I do. It's like you have a lovable face. Yeah. Were you in the hospital for this? I was, yeah. This is horrible. For how many days? Just like a day after it happened and then I had to go back to put everything back together for a bit. Okay. There was a little reconstruction. My nose was like completely f***ing really rough, really rough, yeah. Okay. These guys go to jail? I left this part of the story. I threw the first punch after you got mad of me calling f***ing back. Even though he was already talking to the kid and they got lawyers that said that technically it was self-defense. Oh my God. I know. I know. No one got faulted for it. It was bullshit. Yeah. It's like no fault accident. I don't like that. I don't like it. No, because it's his fault. How much older is Cory or brother than you? Is that the same for you? Yeah, Cory. Seven years older. And when he found out about this, what was his reaction? How did you know that, though? By the way, you do your research. Damn. Yeah. That's my job. That's like he just scratched the surface. You wait. He knows a lot about you. He was an army at that time and dealing with his own recovery and I think he got kicked out of the army at the same time and we were not on the best of speaking terms at that moment. So he didn't go ape shit. He would have if he was there. Yeah. He had a brother protective mode for sure. Okay. So is it just you two? I have three older brothers. Three older brothers. Yeah. Okay. What are the ages? Cory's the second oldest. He's the second. Jesse's the oldest. He's nine year old. How much older is he? No, he's a lot. My mom was 19 when she had him. Oh, really? And then that husband passed away. Man, how that's young to pass away. And a motorcycle accident. Oh. Yeah. And then my mom rode motorcycles together and. Oh. Yeah. That was bad. And it's really bad. It was like a month before he was born. Oh. That was snarly. Yeah. And then years later, my mom was about us and got in trouble for like selling drugs. She did a lawyer and met Cory's dad. Oh, wow. He ended up being an asshole. They separated and then she met me and my full brother Travis, his dad. And he's four years older than me. And you're the baby. And I'm the baby. Yeah. She called it after that. I think I was her favorite mistake. I don't think I was supposed to be bothered. Okay. And how long were your mom and dad together? How did they meet? What did he do for a living? He's from New York. Yeah. He was a genius, went to Cornell at 14, skipped a bunch of grades. They met at a bar. Oh. He's a vunderkin. Yeah. He was next level smart and then met my mom at a bar in San Diego and I think was one of his first relationships ever, like at 28. Oh. Okay. So he's kind of a geek. Totally. And your mother was wild. Wild. Completely. The opposite. He just had to hang on for dear life. Yeah. They worked out. I don't know for a little bit. How long were they together? For, I want to say like eight years, and what do you do for a living? He was a doctor. What kind? He did a bunch. He was an anesthesiologist and then worked in pain management and you've lost track. I lost touch with him. He left when I was a teenager. He got remarried and had kids and decided that was. Yeah. You've already had a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even since you've been on TV, he hasn't felt compelled to reach out. He's reached out like once or twice since that like 10-year gap of not talking. When I was your age, I was probably at apex issues with my dad. Look, I think maybe there's time for things to change. And I think as I've gotten older, the anger I've had for him has dissipated and more until I guess an understanding of like just like a different time that he was growing up and the way that he was showing love as a kid and the way that that was passed on. Like I feel like you could only show the love or give the love that you were showing. Yeah. Yeah. So I can kind of have compassion for him. Because he was so brilliant in one category, does he have deficits in others? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Socially, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If he's 28, he's meaning his first girlfriend. A hundred percent. Yeah. And he was a Cornell at 14, he's probably not having the wheel of college experience. He's probably there with Ronan. I love Ronan. I love Ronan. So what was life like in Ancinitas? It was amazing. It was like Veronica Mars. We had Surf Pee at school. You did? We started school with Surfing every day. You wore shorts to school. Yeah. And I liked it. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. And I was allowed in my school. Was it here, Veronica? Shorts? Shorts were definitely allowed. Shorts are not allowed in school. I guess they must have been. In public school. Yeah. You're allowed to wear shorts. I know. And tank tops. But they had to be two fingers thick. So like why? Right. Like that. So stupid. Well, those people's cities are hanging out. Yeah, the tips are out. Well, that would be two straps held. Well, that doesn't hurt. Spaghetti strap. All right. How about hats? Could you wear hats? I don't think we were allowed to wear hats. Yeah. They draw hard white. Why was it hat? Actually, yeah. I think it's a carryover from like it being rude to wear a hat indoors. Oh, yeah. From like the 30s. Somehow it's a sign of disrespect. Do you think it's like a racism thing? Not in my school. Okay. Yeah. Where'd you guys go to school? I was in Georgia. And Georgia. Okay. And so you know, there's that Southern polite. Totally. It's around where they didn't allow hats because they didn't want black customers. Yeah. I so I think she's graph. I'm saying maybe that has something to do with it. I don't think it did. I'll ask. Yeah. Because no student was like, what's the about the hat policy? Yeah. I'm not going to that one. You're going to whatever school in whatever district you're born in. You're not like shopping. Yeah. Where were you in a suburb of Detroit? Okay. And how did you do socially? I was fine. I think I got by middle schools, right? I had to change middle schools. Yeah. Okay. This fucking kid, I stole my brother Quarry cigarettes and we smoked a cigarette. And then he told the whole school that like I tied him down and forced him to, forced him to smoke. Yeah. That was the thing that they bullied me for. Oh. So funny. Yeah. It's very abstract. It's really abstract. But I think it turned a little gay like I pinned him down and forced him to. That was the subtext. Yeah. We're calling this a smoking infraction. but it's a game. - It's a game, for sure. - So I just got completely tortured. And then I went to the new school and the new district and was like, I'm not gonna be fucked with. I'm gonna be the asshole. - You made a pivot. - No, I was like the dick for a year. - Okay, so you were Jason Doring from also. - Yeah. - I think everyone in Orange County might have been Jason Doring's character at some point. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I think you have to be. - Can you tell me about the loneliness of that middle school when you're getting bullied in the self-consciousness? - When you hear like the footsteps running and you're like, oh fuck, is this fight for me? Do you have all that stuff? - I was terrorized in getting beat up every day and getting shot down with like BB guns and it was what you think of when you see school bully. - Yeah. - Stop on TV where you're like, that doesn't happen. - And did you have anybody's that were like, I'm so sorry this is happening. - My brothers, Cory and Travis, they were like having my back and being protective. They were my friends. When does Cory start getting mixed up with drugs? - He started using heroin at 14. - How did that come into his purview? - I think just friends. Heroin was really popular in San Diego. By the time I graduated about eight people in my class had overdosed. - Wiles? - Yeah. - Wiles, do you attribute that to its proximity to Mexico? - Yeah, I mean, we would go to Tijuana and get drugs. When we were kids and go at lunch and get tacos and drugs and then go back to school. - Yeah, I read the photo at lunch to Tijuana. - Yeah. - That's crazy to me. - What, how far is it? - It was easier back then to go back and forth through the border, but it's probably a 30 minute, 20 minute drive and then you just park your car at the McDonald's and walk over and then walk back. - Wow. - Yeah, I had this girlfriend in high school who kind of like showed me the ropes and was iconic and was like, we're gonna go get all these stuff and I'm gonna come bring it back. And I guess maybe they knew where to go and where to get it, but I just remember it being so easy. - That is wild. - That's dangerous, yeah. - It was very. - If I could have left my high school - Oh my god. - And then a half an hour of mine should, that would have been bad. - Would you drink at lunch? - Yeah, everything. - Okay. - Everything, I got it all out of my system by the time I was 18. - But you go to your dad's house on Father's Day when you're 13 to see him. You spend the night. I can't believe this research. Holy shit. - Everyone happens. - I get Paris Holtand. I get kidnapped in the middle of the night and sent to a wilderness camp. - It sounds so nice when you call it a wilderness camp. - Yeah. - So you had that full experience. - Yeah, I got fully kidnapped. - When it's happening is your dad shouting, but I arranged this, you're going to a wilderness camp. You're going to be a great repeller when you're done with this. - Don't worry. But do worry. - Yeah, I think he couldn't even look at me. I think he couldn't look at me. And I remember calling out for his help and being like, this is your chance to make it right. - What were the behavioral things that had led up to that decision on their part? - That was a nightmare kid. I think not only was I starting to use substances as a really young age, I found out later that my mom, she was in cahoots with my dad about it. That was the biggest shock to me 'cause I didn't think my mom would do that. But I think other than that, I mean, as a kid, I was crying out for attention, crying out for validation, screaming, fighting, biting, I literally bit kids all of elementary school. - You were a bider. - I was a bider. - Oh wow. - So I definitely had behavioral problems. - You always hear people talking about the bider in their school, but you don't ever meet the bider. - I was the bider. - Would you see a little piece of a part of someone's body, like, yeah, I'm gonna fucking sink my teeth into that. - Do you remember your premeditation or is it very impulsive? - No, it's not kick you like it is not. (laughing) I think it would be like a kid would beat me on handball and like, eat me into me about it. And then I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna fuck you up and like push him by the end of that rage. I would see red as a kid and I would go off and I got applauded for it too. My big brothers, they loved it. They would dare me. We love jackass growing up and all that stuff. So I'd get naked and go into like the bonds and scream and they would videotape me on their skateboard. Like, so I was rewarded for being a legit obnoxious. That was the way I got attention. That was the way I got validation. That was the way I felt like they loved me, you know? - I feel bad because like I am judgmental of anyone who sends their kid to a wilderness camp, but also I imagine being the parent. - You're terrified, right? - I want it, do you do? - They're like, they're gonna die. - Yeah. - I'm 100% home. - I'm gonna walk in and I'm gonna go to wake them up for school and they're gonna be dead. So whatever thing I'm gonna choose is gonna be less bad than that, yeah. And I think my mom, too, being a single mom dealing with a kid that was using heroin, I think she was just like, I cannot deal with another nightmare. We have to reform this kid, get him away. - And was Corey getting an illegal trouble and a medical issue. - Oh yeah. - And so she was really at mass deep in it and like working and trying to keep her head above water. It was crazy. - I think you have the thing I had, right? Which is like dad laughs. So dad's the villain and mom's an angel. - No, my mom wasn't perfect either. - Oh, okay. - But I love her and I ride for her no matter what. - Yeah. - You know, like she's a badass and took care of us and actually I kinda get that, yeah. - 'Cause you're like, oh, one stuck around. And you're like, fuck, they got one stuck around. I really, oh this one, you know what you realize? It's an option to leave. - I was a mom's boy. I still have a mom's boy. - Yeah, that's lovely. - Yeah. - So what was the wilderness camp like? Also, I'm sure the literature that was shown to them, the pamphlet probably looked really constructive. - Oh yeah, it was like orange growth. Like something really like happy and constructive. I remember them thinking it would be a good thing and it was just chicken in a bag, rice in a bag. Here's your tent, learn how to build it. Go hike for like 12 hours, be alone. If I did something bad one day, like I wrote an SOS letter and like send it around and ran away in the middle of the night and like made it with like the arts and crafts. I crafted an SOS letter and they put me in isolation in the middle of the mountain for like a day. They would do the classic thing where they knock you down to build you back up and think that their system is the right way to do it and just make you feel horrible by yourself. - Did it have any positive impact on your behavior? No, I did the complete opposite. I rebelled twice as hard. When I came out, I fucking was even more of a nightmare. I didn't trust anybody. - Yeah. - I fought with other kids. I don't know, I made me resilient, maybe. - Sure. - I think it all fucked up things, but I don't even wanna give them that. - Yeah. - You know, but like, I guess every bad thing that has happened to me or every hardship I've gone through, I have learned something from it, I think. - It's one more thing you're like, well, I survived that thing. - Yeah, proof of survival. - I did, exactly. I lived and now I'm passed that. - I don't subscribe to what they did. That was another common thing. And my high school was like people went to Juvie and rehabs and Utah like all these crazy places that were doing way worse shit. I was molested at a regular summer camp, not at that camp. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Which you have really helped me with, by the way. - Have I? - Well, just the way that you talk about it, I've had a therapist tell me 100 times. Not your fault, it's not your fault. And when you talk, I think it was an anachendrics podcast or another podcast you talked about, no matter how many times people can say that you felt like you were an active participant. There was a curiosity there. - Yeah, there's still my culpability you're aware of. Mine was I wanted this go kart. You know, like I knew I should not be there. - Yeah, I really wanted this go kart. I was being promised that I could buy it for a very suspicious-- - Buy it, you still have to buy it? - You still have to buy it? - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's bad to you. - The thing was worth like $500, but I was going to be able to buy it for a hundred and I had a whole plan. I was going to mow this many grasses and-- - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - So sad. - Oh, it's so embarrassing. But I got to tell you man, I've had a new light shown on that whole experience. We had this expert who cheaches at Johns Hopkins and she's ahead of this program that does nothing that study child sexual abuse. And she's like 70% of sexual abuse is by other kids. And so although this dude was way older than me, he also wasn't 18. Now I don't know. Like I used to have this guilt of like, fuck, I should have turned him in. I don't know how many people he fucked with. But now after talking to him, I'm like, I don't know that he ever did. I don't know. Like, he might have just been this weird fucking thing. I don't know if he was a pedophile or what. - I get that, your mind goes to like, not being able to like put it together, piece it together, what it actually was. I think for so long, I felt like, well, I wanted it. And like my therapist could be like, well, you're in your 20s and would you hook up with a 10 year old and I'm like, fuck no. - Right. - But it didn't matter. But when I heard you talk about that and the way that you had those conflicting thoughts about it because you wanted that thing and you were looking for that thing that you felt so much guilt and shame and to look back at little dacks and little Lucas and be like, yeah, but of course you did. - Yeah, you want me to go cut. - You're a kid. - You're a fucking kid. - I did ignore my spidey sense. - 100%. - I violated my body telling me something. - Yeah. - And also, yeah, I was a little kid who wanted to go cart and I can forgive that. I couldn't just pretend that I didn't get any signals. That was the part that was corrosive to me. - Yeah. - Because I knew there was some part of me that played a role, right? - That's what I felt. - Yeah, I think that's where the real guilt is. I think people miss it who it hasn't happened to. - I think so too. And I don't know if you did this. My go-to was make a joke about it. Being like, how could I not have been molested or I was like a slutty little 10-year-old? Like that was my joke that I would go to and told my story. - You were irresistible. - I was irresistible. Like, and my third was like, you have to stop doing this. You cannot use that as a coping mechanism. - Right. - It's weird that I can have a medical professional tell me at a hundred times, but hearing you talk about that in that interview really, really, really. - Oh, that means great. - It's just resonant of me. - Really, really happy. - Yeah. - Stay tuned for more armchair expert. - If you dare, we are supported by all state. Checking all state first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking that your keys are actually in your hand before you close the car door. Have you ever stood in a parking lot full of sun, staring at your keys sitting right there on the seat four inches away and completely useless to you? It's a very specific kind of humbling. Yeah, checking first is a good idea. So check all state first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds and for fast reliable help when you need it, add an all state roadside plan today. You're in good hands with all state. Potential savings vary, insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions, and availability insurance provided by all state North American insurance company, North Brook, Illinois, roadside assistance plans provided by all state motor club, incorporated in all state affiliate. [MUSIC] It's funny to say that though, isn't it true? There's such a power in watching someone else process something that can get through to you, or if it's being directed at me, it can't. I remember there was a moment where Monaco was getting interviewed by a therapist or a hypnotist. And she was telling this story, and I had seen her tell her a million times. And the therapist said, I don't know why you're smiling. Yeah, it was Gabor Mate. Yeah, he said. Oh, it was a force, it was. Yeah, he said, why are you smiling? He said, is it funny? And I was like, no. I mean, I was telling like a sad story or something. I don't remember what I was saying. But I said, no. And then he was like, why are you smiling? And then it wasn't rhetorical. He was really asking. And I was like, I guess, because I'm uncomfortable. And you really had to start like breaking it down. Breaking it down. I mean, I was doing it. I did it earlier, too. Right. Right. I did it. I do it. It's almost like you want the other. Don't feel bad. I want to make you comfortable. Yes. You don't feel like uncomfortable with my weird shit. With this awkward story. Yeah. I'm telling you 100%. 100%. Yeah. I'd be vulnerable. But not too vulnerable to that. Yes. You then feel uncomfortable. Yeah. God, why do we do that? I know. Well, I can't resist. I can't resist, but be this way. And I'm apologetic that I am. And then I'm going to try to make it as light as possible. So, you know. But you're saying that that happened. You noted. When it happened to you. Yeah. You realize you do it. And someone wasn't challenging me. I was smiling. Like, I went and got defensive with that question or made up some on the spot justification. But I just was watching my sweet friend smile at something that really didn't warrant smiling. And I thought, well, how sad on top of sad that that is happening. And then I was like, yeah, and I do that too. Everyone does it. Yeah. Yeah. What age do you get fixated on acting right after I got jumped? I did like little things as a kid and I would hide it. You know, I did awards commercial and I'm fucking kids found it in high school. Oh, God. War? All the W. Oh, no. Oh, my God. I tried to hide it from the whole thing. Wait, hold on. Venerable awards? No, no. I got that later in life. Oh, yeah. You got that. You got that. We all have it. I remember that as age TV. Oh, but no, it was the compound W for warts on your fingers. Oh, Ross. Yeah. Do you remember when you got the role you're pumped? You're also like, this is fucking career suicide for my high school. Yeah. I remember feeling both of those things and just really trying to hide it. And I was hiding like doing plays and stuff and in the town over because Gave. Yeah. You were obviously you had a real secret. Yeah. A lot of secrets. They're corrosive. You said you have a cousin that came out gay and always knew and you had some jealousy of that. Yeah. And I guess that's interesting. It should be obvious. There's every version of everything on planet earth. But I'm so used to hearing gay folks say, like, oh, yeah, I always knew. And I kind of am interested in the notion that it could be a slower burn. I think honestly a lot of it, like my first sexual experiences was, sorry to talk about molestation. So much being molested by a guy. So there was a lot of that wrapped up into it. So I really loved these girlfriends. I had. I was like obsessed with them. I was obsessed with love from a very young age. And I was so happy to just like be sexual and be physical and be in love with these girls. And if any kind of thought like that would go through my mind, I would justify it with like, well, I was molested though. That's like some residual trauma from back. 100%. I don't know if I blacked out before that of having that awareness, but I really don't think I did. I really think that any kind of inkling or curiosity or suspicion of it was then being like, but you got molested. That's why that, of course, you feel that right sometimes, but like, you love your girlfriend, you love your girlfriend. And a part of me really did. Yeah. And a part of me said something on some podcast where I piss people off where I said, like I'm 10% straight or something because like every once in a while, I do have sex with girls. I know I'm pretty damn gay, you know, like I'm pretty gay. Do you want the English teacher? I've watched English teacher, yeah. I love it so much. So funny. I think it's the funny show ever. So funny. We're in the second season. He goes in. He's around either his sister or his female friends fiance. And the guy is presenting is very, very gay, but he's saying he's by at some point. He confronts him. He saw this and he's like, I don't know, man, you're reading very gay to me. Like what percentage and the guy's like, well, I'm 90% gay and 10% by any goes. So you're 5% straight. I don't know what I'm in the math. Well, maybe that's where I got it from, and like literally, I'm leading to my interview. That's so funny. Well, if you're 10% gay, really, that is so funny. That's so crazy. That's so crazy. It's just like everyone needs these boxes. Yeah. I know someone like this and it's all heartbreaking. This is all the byproduct of fucking being shit on and victimized. So it's like, there is a period for some gay dudes where they feel like the easier softer path is to say I'm by 100% at least right by now gay later. That's like a saying from the 90s when kids would first come out as by. And so by now gay later, it's pretty good. Yeah, that's solid. Want to get a tattoo? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lucas likes it. I like it. Oh my god. You've never heard that? I've never heard it either. I think because in the 90s people were starting to really identify as by, is that a new thing? Yeah. And then people were like, by now, gay later. But for those people who had that specific thing, where they were just gay, but they were pretending to be by, to lessen the blow to everyone around them, they then realized I was being dishonest with myself. I'm 100% gay. But they're hearing your story and it's very easy for them to project. Oh, he's still trying to preserve. He's got 10% of a toehold in his shame and that's why he's saying that. Yeah. But that's not fair to anyone. I mean, but maybe though, I feel like there was a part of me that was preserving it at first when I first started experimenting on guys. I got hooked up with my neighbor, but then after that, I was like, okay, I'm only going to hook it with couples. You know, it was a guy and a girl and that will be less, you know, it was like addiction stuff. Yeah, I do. I'm only going to wear one totally. Here's my fake roadblock, so it won't get worse. Exactly. And compartmentalize it. Well, that's one other thing I want to talk about is the San Diego is a real military town. Yeah. And I'm imagining that kind of compounds the masculine vibe a little bit like the hypermasculine vibe. 100%. There's a lot of that. It's a bro culture out there. That's where the Navy seals are based, right? Yeah. There's a lot of them going around. I think especially when your dad leaves and you don't have like that male figure in your house, well, I had a stepdad that was around for a little bit, but to look at that as what masculinity is as a teenager and having that around you and being like, oh, I have to be that. Yeah. Is probably why I was such an asshole when I went to my new school is like trying to emulate these Marines that were flocking around my town because I'm like, this is what it means to be a man and to not be fucked with. Yeah. You know, these guys are not getting beat up in the hallway. No. No, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're on Grindr, though. Yeah. Sure. I see these depicted in movies and it always breaks my heart. I think the maybe saddest thing that can happen to young gay boys is they end up having a secret relationship. And then like the toxic nature of the secrecy ends up being so cruel to one another because they're both hiding and that seems to me to be the heartbreaking as part. Like you can't even have the beautiful fun loving fling. Did you have any of those situations? 100%. I was super in love with my neighbor. The first guy I'd ever been with was with him for three years, hiding it for a year from everybody. And it was tearing him down that I had to finally, it was after a little mermaid audition that I came out to everybody. That's a good time to do it. Great time to do it, right? I like started crying in the audition because they're like, tell us a secret that you have. And I realized that this secret that was so fun at first and like made it so hot. Like I think it's really sexy to have a secret until it's not until it just like eats you fucking fine. When it's your identity, you want to be out loud about it and you didn't know why he did it. Because he was really kind and really consider it and buried like when you're ready, it's whatever. But then I think after years like, dude, come on, you got to come clean. Yeah. Was the pressure compounded by all these older brothers? I can't imagine that would help. I got to give it to my brothers. They were pretty cool and pretty artsy, even though they beat me up. They were still like that side of them that didn't give a shit about that. But if I'm being honest, I think a lot of it came from Hollywood and the industry of being like, do not come out because you're only going to play gay. You're only going to be seen as the gay guy. And that was true. It was. I think it's still a little bit true. I think it's definitely still, I mean, look, we have like Jonathan Bailey now who's everyone's in love with. Yes. Rightfully so. But like, there is still resistance met with like can Lucas play a leading guy, you know? Yeah. It's interesting. Very, very famous adored male actor who I know is gay and I've never heard him say it in public and he plays a lot of sexy hetero dudes and I do wonder like is he not telling anyone because of that? And then also if people knew would that impact you never know, like I don't know when that time has come. Remember when Anne Haysh was in the movie with Parris? and Ford, and she had just come out. And people were like, what? How am I going to buy into that? She's in love with Harrison for forget the age. That's fine. He's all the other year. That makes sense. But what about her being lesbian? I guess that's the only thing like I don't love the idea that people can't play other people. I hate it. That's bullshit. The only time I was ever defensive of it is I was like, when straight dudes were getting cast as famous gay characters, I was like, well, y'all, if you're not going to give them the fucking straight rolls, that we cannot take the game. There's going to be none left. That did feel uniquely unfair. Yeah. I agree with you on that part. I did feel that way. But with every other scenario, I get really territorial and defensive of people when they come for them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's bullshit. Let's go through the timeline of starting to work. What age were you? I think I was like 20 or 21 when I did American bandal. That was good. It was a recurring role on a Netflix show that people liked. And then I did this kid show with Claudia, actually, at the same time or the year before that. That's where I'm at Claudia. So excuse one of the best people of all time. Yeah. We love her so much. And then I think it was a year or two after that. I'm going to spend 22, 23. I reach out to Sam Levinson because I saw another happy day. It reminded me of my family. I wrote this long letter. He says that he's doing this movie in New Orleans right now. And I like convince a New Orleans agent. I'd lie to them and say I live in New Orleans. Local hire. Local hire. Save a couple bucks for production. I meet him. I lie. I get on a plane. I work with him. And then a year later, he put me in Euphoria. So that's where it really all. Because the part of the story I really want to learn about, you were getting accused of queer baiting. Yeah. Why would you be accused? Yeah. So they thought you were straight in acting. What did they think? They were like, you're taking gay roles in your straight. There we go. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And you're like, but I love Britney Spears. And I'm making out with men. Exactly. It was obviously that's an online thing. Yeah. So when do you become aware of it? Immediately. You're checking your Instagram and your Twitter and your getting DMs all the time. And what kind of things? What people said? Just like you're a piece of shit. How dare you take, you know, and I'm just like reading them. And at first, it's funny. And I'm like, God, you guys have no idea. And then it starts to really piss you off. I had this like viral tweet moment where someone said like, I hate him and I hate his fucking face. And I hate that he takes roles from gay people. And I've wrote something. I think I was drunk when I wrote it, but I wrote like, you don't know my alphabet or something like that. And then he's like, well, inform us. And then I just wrote no with a heart. And people liked it. I guess. And I think that they were like good for him for not feeling like he has to disclaim what he is to some troll on the internet. Again, it's one of these things where you really can't ever win. You can't win. Because then the next year you get married to a guy on the Kardashians and then they fucking hate your guts. So it's just like you cannot go all the way with it. And it's too much. I hate that. Oh my God. So how much was it affecting you? And how did you decide to then be public about it? And was it motivated by that? Like to shut these people off? Maybe there was some defiance in me to be like, I'm going to push back and be so on your fucking face about it. But then another part of me was in a weird area where I got manic and married a stranger after a couple weeks of knowing them. Yeah. Okay. So we need a lot. And again, this might be fun for you because I know when I'm inside of crisis things, I just convince everyone knows about it. So one thing is like I didn't know about the viral moment with the director. Oh great. I love that. I don't know that. Ryan Hanson. He knows everything. Of course. I'm interviewing him on Wednesday. I'm afraid to talk to him. I don't want to run it. He's like, oh, yeah. And yet that like really cool thing where he posted, will you tell the story? Yeah. I know you're sick of it. I'm just sure you get that. Truly a lot of people have no clue. Until now. I love that you guys don't know. I mean, it's great. Yeah. Basically, it was like the first audition during COVID. It was a zoom. Everyone turns their cameras off. It goes quiet. They're like, you ready to go. The director forgot to mute his microphone. So he's like with his wife or somebody's like, oh, my God. Look at this poor actor and this shitty apart. I didn't say this tiny apartment with a TV and a bed and the sofa and the same room as each other. And then I was just like, oh, your mic's still on. Oh, really quick. Yeah. That's a decision. You've made a choice. You're a real actor because you're like, I could have pretended I didn't hear this. Yeah. And he'll never know or maybe I'll know he was on me. Say it though. But I think a lot of people would have just pretended it didn't. Yeah. So I love. Okay. So what did you say? Exactly. I was like, I know that it's a shitty apartment. But if you get me this job, I'll get a better apartment. Yeah. That's great. And it was true. I love the apartment. It was a cute little studio apartment down the road. And then I made it as a part of like an improv of the scene like I incorporated it. Maybe I probably did it a little too much. Sure. I was like, yeah, you can come back to my tiny apartment later. Like I started using it and if you hadn't called him out, and then you did the audition and you said tiny apartment in the audition, he would have his face would have caught on fire. Yeah. That's the real. That was probably the smart move. Yeah. Okay. So you got the role. No, no, I didn't get the role. But there's a happy ending. Okay. The next audition was White Lotus. Come on. Yeah. You got rewards. So if I got that one, I wouldn't have been done White Lotus. And then after a night of fun, during White Lotus, a couple months later, I decided to post the video. Oh, because you had recorded it. Well, we had to record it on our end. Oh, yeah. We had to be like a cinematographer and our editor in this and that was like so annoying. Oh, my God. And so I posted it and woke up to a hundred calls and like a hundred thousand requests. It was very viral. It was really viral. Wow. Ryan Hansen saw it. He knew the whole story. Yeah. He loved it by the way. He handled it. Yeah. When that video happened, I was like a champion for actors, right? Or a month. And then the month later, I was a fucking liar. I was the kid who cawned a video with a director to get sympathy to get on White Lotus. Oh, that was the narrative. That was the next narrative. Well, how could you have possibly manipulated the guy into talking about also released a statement apologizing? I'm like, how could I pull this out? They're like, that's the greatest marketing move ever. It's insane what people believe versus the real things they refuse to believe. I know. The cast is in between what's being ignored about objective reality and then embraced about fucking conspiracies is mind blowing. It's insane. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like the back and forth of like people loving me and saying I'm a hero to being like this guy is a fucking piece of shit. And we hate him. And the ride you're on. Yeah. And hijacked your dopamine system. Even if you're not prone to mania, it can put you there. Oh, yeah. What was happening like emotionally? I heard you say like it really sucked. I had a moment as an actor. I had some pop. I was on some shit. And then I kind of didn't have that. And then I had this moment as like, I don't know what you even call that like a public face. And you said like this feels like a 15 minutes of fame thing, which I don't like. It probably was also complicated. I would have loved being a hero for a month. Yeah. That would be all right. But even that is like not the right messaging to give somebody. I think that can fuck you up too. Yeah. It's fraudulent. It's not real. None of this is fucking real. Yeah. And it doesn't matter. But I think I was just so narcissistic at that time and like so obsessed of what everyone was saying and so focused on myself. Hard not to. It's hard not to. And then you're like, oh, Jesus. Now I'm just famous for this thing. No one's ever gonna take me seriously. Right. Actor. Well, it's like all the stuff takes precedent of all the hard work that I'd put in for a decade that I was really trying to focus on that. And suddenly it's just only the headlines that people know you from. So I rewatch a bunch of your scenes on white lotus today. You're so fucking great on that dude. You're so great on you. You have like a real unique point of view as that character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Watching Jennifer Coolidge and Murray Bartlett and Molly Shannon on set. That's like the best comedy lesson. They're unreal. The coolest people ever. And we got so close on that show. These were all living at that four seasons and we were living in the four seasons. During COVID. Don't COVID no one lived there but us. And like the expectation wasn't there yet. We didn't know what it was gonna be. Yeah. It's just like out this fun show, but then it's the biggest show. I just learned so much from them about I think what I was talking about with Doug Lyman to actually is like not going in with a plan. If not being like I'm a good student and I'm prepared and look at like all the choices I made last night that doesn't fucking matter. You're gonna find something better on the day that's fresh. The camera loves that. And so just watching them every take do something different. Uh-huh. As you know a 25 year old green actor was like, Oh, you can do that. You're allowed to go outside of this parameter. Try a bunch of shit and it's okay if you eat shit because they won't use it. Yeah. Maybe it will. Maybe it was just. Well, you were protected by Mike White who has an impeccable amazing taste. Yeah. Yeah. It's perfect. Yeah. Did you hang with him a bit? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I love Mike. He's the best. Yeah. He's a very fascinating dude. The most fascinating smart guy I've ever met. I think disarming too. You're like, Hold on. That's guys the show runner. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. He hasn't figured out. I was just going to say I'm like, I want to like make a show be a director, writer, go to fucking survivor and the amazing race and come back to HBO. Yeah. Right. That's so cool. - Cool, this does whatever the fuck he wants to do. - I know. - And go like, when do I must want to be in another country? - Exactly. - I'm gonna go to be France. - Oh, dreamy. - Okay, well these notes on me, can I read them? - No. - Absolutely, this is scary. - I don't know. - I'm trying to think of something Tara, I mean, why do you want to do it? - I can tell you, this is having a couple times that you expect people to think that. You expect people to not like you or to have an idea about you. - Well, I think I go in, I humiliate myself or make fun of myself before they can beat me to France. - Yeah, it's your armor. - Yeah, I expect it. - But it's not happening over here anyway. - I like you. I like you when I met you in Austin. I have nothing but good feelings about you. Okay, Fargo, how do you get that role? Walk me through getting that role. - I was in London, I self-tape myself for, I think every, I don't know if you experience this as an actor where they would have you audition for the guy, they love you. But they're like, he's just not right. But we're gonna bring him back for this one. And then this one, that was the trajectory of every single euphoria, white lotus, Fargo, you, every single time. It's like they bring me in for something else and they don't know what to do with me. - But they're intrigued. They're intrigued. - Yeah, that's great. - Yeah, there's something there. And I think that was another scenario where I was like, I love this show. I wanna work with Noah Hawley. I'm just gonna keep auditioning and keep signing tapes until he says yes. And so that character was obviously written in your audition for that? - Yeah. - It's not like he had seen you trying all these other characters and I'm like, oh, let's put him all out here. - Actually, I think in that one, I think I tried out for like Joe Curie's role and another guy and I got close and then I think he was like, just give him that one. - Uh-huh, yeah, I think it was that situation in that one. - Oh my God, are you great in that? - Yeah, you're great. - Thank you. - Wait, did you say you a show on Netflix? - Yeah. - Oh, I don't remember. - I'm in the London season. - I love that one. - The American that gets heat on. - Ooh, you got heat on. - Oh. - The pink, the piss fish. - Oh. - Tell me. - No, I can't. I wanna spoil it. I don't wanna spoil it. - It's already been spoiled. It gets heat on. - Well, a lot happened. - You got to shoot on as well. - A lot happened to that show. I got obsessed with that show, like last year, I think. And every time I would come into the fact check, I was like, okay, so I'm watching you a show on Netflix. 'Cause there can be any movies. - And I prefer that she said I'm watching a show on Netflix called you, but she refuses to do that. And she had always gone watching you. - That happened a lot. - Show on Netflix. - Her emburgment. One of the famous, what's her name, what's her name? - For Borgon Durson. - Oh, what's her name from Fox News? - Lauren Bergman. - No, no, no. - Lauren Bergman. - Lauren Bergman. - Lauren Bergman. - Have you seen that? - Oh my God. - Oh my God. - Why don't I have a show on me? What? What was he talking about? So stupid. - So stupid. - I'm on a show on Netflix. What? - Called you? - Called you? - It's worth not worth the rewind. - There was a lot of beaties. - No measles. - Oh my measles. - We didn't do a show on measles. Oh my God. - Oh my God. That's so funny. - Yeah. - That's so good. - Anyway, I love that show. - Okay, so you come off Fargo. - Yeah. - I want to know how we get to the marriage on the Kardashians, which is a spectacular thing to be. I know I'm sure it's loaded for you. - It's my best time to be credit, honestly. - You're going to be on your deathbed one day as we all will be. And I promise you, you're going to be like, I'm so glad I got married on the Kardashians. Like, fuck it, man. It's one trip I'm playing at Earth. - I think it's iconic. I think it's so funny. It's so stranger than fiction. If you wrote that down on a piece of paper, like a bus script in my life, I would be like, there's no way that's going to happen. - Well, what happened? I don't even know. - Yeah, so let's just talk about you, Matt. Chris. - I met this dude. I met this guy. - What are you mentally when you met? - Not great. - Okay, what version of not great? - Long story short is I was in another relationship. That had ended. I was devastated, completely horrible. It screwed me up so bad that it's all embarrassing. I don't give a shit. I was crying on set and they called my reps and they were like, this kid keeps crying on set. Like, is he okay? - On par, go. - No, it was on. - You was on. - No, it was on the show called Dead Boy Detectives. That it was on Netflix. Yeah, it's better. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I was like in a cat prosthetic crying. - Okay. - Yeah, there's not, you could have pointed a lot of fingers at the moment. I mean, I love that show though. - It's the best show ever. - Best show ever. - But still, you're in the cat outfit. - I'm just the cat king. So I'm crying and someone had called my people. My people were like, what is wrong with you? And then I started crying with them and I was like, I know it loves me. I'm in a dialogue. This career doesn't matter. Nothing, I was like a really existential place of like nothing matters and I just want to be in love. They were like, you need to go somewhere. So they made me check into a place. They wouldn't give me another audition. - Oh wow. - Until I checked out myself. - I was very ethical reps. - 'Cause they were like, you're depressed. - And in this episode, I fired him. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made. - You can mend that. - There's chances. - Yeah, yeah, that's totally salvageable. I go to this place. They put me on the most insane cocktail medications. They give me my diagnosis that I have borderline personality disorder. - How quick does it take them to determine that? - Couple weeks. And then I was fighting them on it. Still fight them on it. - Yeah. - We'll get back to it. - Our episode on borderline personality disorder. - No, I need to listen to that one. - It's very interesting. - It's incredible. I'm so glad we did it. And we've run into people in real life. This waitress came up to me and was like, you just can't imagine how much I appreciate that episode. Like I battled this thing. And I was like, yeah dude, it's like everything else. It's just one more thing that someone's like fucking contending with. They were really shine a wonderful light on it all. 'Cause if we were just like, oh, BDP, it's scary. - Yeah, I have the same thing. I resisted it and I was like, we over-pathologize everybody and just like put this thing on them and that's who you are. And you have this albatross around your neck. So I fought with it a lot. And I have a lot of people in my life who would be like, you 100% have it. And I think especially that saw me in that period would be like without a doubt. - Yeah. - So they put me on these meds. It was not the right meds. They over-medicated me. - Yeah. - And I was really not myself. I was straining my hair, changing on my clothes. Just being manic. - Yeah. - I really was. And I'm tethered. - Yeah. - And I meet Chris. It's like this whirlwind romance. It's moving at the speed of light. Every date is a string quartet band. - He's also gorgeous. I didn't know of him until today. - Yeah. - He's fucking gorgeous. - Yeah. - He's got an accent. He's also dialed into the Kardashian world. That's fun. Especially if I'm 29. - 100%. - I'm like, this is very fun. - It was fun. And it was really that feeling that I was searching for so long or what I thought it was of like being lovable and having someone that did these grand gestures of love. So when he proposed really, really on, I said, yeah. - How quickly? - A couple months. - Plus. - Okay, a couple hours. - No. - A couple weeks. - A couple weeks. - A couple weeks. - Is there any voice in your head going like, we know statistically the two week engagements generally. Like was there any rational things poking holes? - There was some rationale going on in my brain, but I think I was so wounded from that last relationship and wanted to feel love so bad and wanted to be like, fuck it. It's bold to be in love. It's brave. Stop protecting your heart. Just go with it. But I think that there was a part of my head that was like, this is too fast. - And there's an illusion that marriage is a turnkey mooring of yourself to something. Like there is some idea that it's going to be stability, but it's not at all stability. Not at all. And I've never had any model of a marriage that was shown to me that was stable in my life. So I had no idea what that was. - And if you're manic, I mean, that's just like dopamine. - So I get you saying yes. That makes total sense. This guy's a fucking baby. He's got his own thing going. When is it proposed? Well, let's do this marriage on the Kardashian show. - So basically, I'd always talked about how I love Shenai Twain. - We love him. - Us too. - I mean, obsessed. I wrote in my journal as a kid. Like, still the one is going to be my marriage song. - Oh, wow. - Once I beat her on America Idol, like I would just lie to my journal all the time and like say crazy shit, but I love Shenai Twain. And so then a couple of weeks after the proposal, he's like, we got to get married this weekend. I'm like, what? No. I thought it was going to be like a long proposal. - Long and big, man. - Yeah. And he's like, just trust me on it. - Okay. - Big surprise. - Big surprise. - And you're manic. You love surprise. - Yeah, that's the thing. - You love surprises. I'm like, let's jump out of an airplane and let's fucking go. - Yeah. - Throw me out of a moving car. - Shenai Twain was in Vegas that weekend. So Shenai Twain. He performed at my wedding. - No way. - Hold on a second. I need more of the pieces. She's performing in Vegas. - Yeah. - You guys are gonna go to Vegas? - It was that weekend. She had a show there. - And the Kardashians were gonna be there attending the show and filming? - No, Kim's his best friend and doing his hair. And she was our hook up with Shenai. So they had planned this whole thing. And I go to Buffalo Bills, which is so weird. It's where I went every year. It was like an 11, 12 year old, 13 year old. I was my birthday party. My mom loved to gamble. That was our treat, it was we'd taken our V and go to this place. And I walk in and it's just Kim and Chris and Shenai Twain. - Ah. - At a Buffalo Bills. - I lose my booking shit. Sobbing. - Yeah. - Sobbing. - And how did she handle it probably pretty well? - She was great. - It was a thoughtful, is that Buffalo Bills? - It was really, yeah, it was thoughtful. I think that was a coincidental thing. Actually, she just was playing that night at Buffalo Bills. But maybe a little go with it was thoughtful, yeah. We'll go with it was really thought out. - Or said. - No, but I mean, the fact that they pulled that off is insane. That literally was a dream come true. - By the way, speaking as a love addict, like I understand sex and love addiction. I get 100%. - It's the best thing in my addiction. - Yeah, yeah. - Lost the other stuff and became addicted to sex and love. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's tasty, keeps working. - Until it doesn't, then you're scared. - I can keep gasping you guys. but I really will say that this show was one man me go to Sla. - Really? - Whoa. - Oh my God. - That's so nice. - Not to keep kissing your ass for a while. - Like it's a real snake, yeah. - That's really amazing. - Oh my Lord. - Yeah. - I think I'm gonna retire. - No, no, you got to have more people. - That's not the right answer exactly. - You got to keep talking about this stuff. - What my ends think would be like it should stop us. - Oh my God. - Wait, did something that helps you? I should stop us. If you dare. (upbeat music) - Okay, so you meet her. - That goes well. You cry, did she hug you? - Yeah, of course. - Yeah. - She helped me, Kim is amazing. - She's great, right? Everyone loves Kim. - So generous, plan this whole thing, paid for everything, took care of my family and we're dancing with Usher. It's like a fucking fever dream of what is happening. How is this my life? - Your mom came? - Yeah. - So she's having fun and she's got to be nervous for you as well. - My whole family and all my friends were very nervous for me and very concerned for me while trying to be there for me and being like, "He's happy, he's in love." - I know. - Got to be there for him. - He was very depressed three weeks ago, but no. - Right after you got out of a facility. - Yeah. - That's a lot. - I think everyone was saying maybe we should just blow the brakes down a little bit and I was like, "Fuck you." - Yeah. - I'm in love. You don't know, you don't know what real love is. - Yeah. - Now this is where I can relate to. It's like fun. Some level I have this story about me as an addict, which is like, I generally didn't put people out. Like I pride myself on that, right? And all bunch of people money I didn't steal for my friends. - Just off of that. - Some of me stealing, but I thought relatively I had created less wreckage than a lot of the addicts I knew. But what I'm not wanting to acknowledge is like, that moment that I'm putting everyone in all the time. It's just like, he seems like he's doing really good, but they know I missed my birthday party like a week ago, right? Or he didn't show up for Christmas. You underestimate the toll of that. Like, is he good? He's good, okay. - Yeah. - It's a lot. - It's a lot. - I actually had Claudia say to me at the barbecue. We had the other day like, I was really worried about you for a second. I was really worried we lost you for a minute. - Yeah. - And just to hear like how concerned all my friends were that loved me and adored me. What I would want for you is for you to hear, oh yeah, you're very loved. But what I would hear is like, fuck, I'm such a piece of shit. I've made these people worry. Like in the moment that I should be receiving the love, I would be so flagellating. For the first time in my life, I didn't go to that. I went to like God, I'm so lucky that I have these people who are my ride or die, so have been through me when I was a shitty friend to them. And like went, MIA and got married and didn't invite any of them. - Well, what are you busy with? - Sure, that wasn't really in charge of it. That's true. Thank you Monica. - But also, what's so sad about this is like, you're doing on this to feel loved, right? But you are loved. You have all these people that are there that are like hardcore there for you, but you can't see that. - Yeah. - Well, and it doesn't keep you high. The real love doesn't keep you high. - Exactly. - I think it's how I feel about attention and life with acting and stuff. It's like, I wanted it so bad and then I got it and I didn't believe anyone and I couldn't accept it. I wanted love, I couldn't accept it. - It's sad. - We live all these paradoxes. Like, yeah, we want this thing. We're gonna feel a certain way when we get this thing. We get that thing, it doesn't feel right. We didn't earn it, we don't deserve it. And then I feel worse and you're like, what is the goddamn solution? - It's so fucking contradictory. But it doesn't make sense. But you're right, I had it in front of me the whole time and I was just searching out there for something else. - We sabotaged so much just as people in the search for this thing, you maybe let go of the real thing that's there. - And then there's just like, I don't know, you've always been a wild fucking obnoxious dude, and I was too. It's like the highs are high, you're chasing high highs. - Yeah. - No, other people aren't chasing that moment which is an eye of 20. - 100%. - And it's like, you know, you read what you're selling. It's like, I like it fucking hot and heavy. - Let's see. - Yeah. And I'll pay the price. - But then you get it. - But then you're like, what's next? - A low, low comes after a high. - A low, a low, a low. - As all drugs are working. - Exactly. - You have to come down and then you're withdrawing and then you feel like, what am I gonna fill it up with next? - Yeah. - Okay, so wow, the only thing I didn't get out of this, when we start filming, the nuptials are on camera? - Yeah, I, that was a surprise. - Yeah. - Oh, okay, okay, all right, okay. - I thought I was going to be talking about the engagement on the phone and then, yeah. - And then you were in front of a film crew? - Yeah. - What was happening in your body while you were left my body? - Not there. - See you later. - Don't remember what happened. Blacked out and not even from drugs or alcohol. Just wasn't there? - I'll wake up when it's less intense. - This seems so overwhelming. - Remember I wrote my vows and my notes pat on my phone and then I got up there and they all deleted in my pocket. (laughs) - Oh my God. - And this is the only memory I have. - It's like a true nightmare, honestly. - Yeah, it is, it is. - It's like a fine nightmare. - You'd be like, "I gotta wake up from this." - Yeah. - "I gotta wake up, wake up, wake up." And I texted my friend, my one friend Phoebe, who I write with and I had her proofread it before. I went up and I said, "Don't make it obvious, but text me my vows right now." And I tried to like play it cool. - Oh my gosh. - That I didn't have my vows. God, it's so crazy. You can't write this. It's so insane. - It's pretty crazy. - It's such a story. - It's such a good chapter in the book of my life. - Yeah. - So you wrote all this and I wrote this for attention. My premature memory. - No, I really like it. I like that you're like, "I prefer when I've read memoirs of people who don't have it all figured out." And it's like more midway through or whatever. We're on the journey. We're not reflecting on all the lessons we've learned. What I like too. - No, I don't care about that. - Let's just start with, I'm impressed you finished a memoir. - Funny too. - The hardest thing I've ever done. - Yeah, so I've been writing one for four years now. And when you're doing a memoir, it's like, there's just stuff hovering that you know you're supposed to tell and it's just like I can't get motivated to tackle this chapter over the hardest ones. Obviously, I would imagine you admitting the diagnosis would be really hard. - Yeah, that was really hard. It's like that liability that you're marked with for the rest of your life and same with the gay shit. It was like, "Okay, well then I'm not." And now you're only seen as that. And I'm like, now a gay actor, now I'm gay actor with the personality disorder, holy shit, let's not hire her. (laughing) Fuck this kid. But then I was really inspired by Julia Fox and all these other amazing people that are so honest about it and forthcoming. That was a shit that helped me talk about it and not feel so alone about it. And if we can't be honest, and we can't be authentic, what do we have? - Well, again, back to the death bed. - Yeah. - It's like, dude, are you gonna lay there and be like, well, I never was myself and now it's over. That to me sounds like the nightmare of all nightmares. I'd way rather been like, no, I was me out loud and a lot of people didn't like it, but I found the people that do like it. And that's preferred, in my opinion. - Yeah, it was that that really inspired this book. I think the most dishonest part of the book is the title of the book, really, 'cause I didn't really write it for attention. That's the title I wrote this for attention. - Yeah, that's a good title, and I love the title. The idea came the week that I got the divorce. My grandma died and I'm getting confused online as a Nazi because there was a Nazi influencer named Lucas Cage with the sea. - Oh, no. - The hits are coming fast. - And seeing my dad for the first time in five or 10 years. So I'm like, fuck, this is the most insane week of my life and all this noise. - You hadn't seen your dad and then you had to see him immediately after getting divorced. - Yes, and with his mom dying. - Oh, 'cause the floor, oh. - Lucas, this is a lot of fun. - And while I'm doing it, I'm checking Twitter to see what a cheater I am or that I'm a Nazi now, and I'm like, holy fuck, what have I done with my life? - Yeah. - And why do I care? And why am I eating into this disgusting attention well of what people that I don't know about me think about? - Why am I like this? - Yeah, that's the question. - That was really my life. - That's why I started. That was the whole, and that was gonna be the intro of the book and it ended up being the conclusion of the book by the time I was finished, but that was where it started. - So for the people who didn't listen to our BDP episode, explain to us what they told you of what Borderline personality is. - Yeah, how did they explain it to you? - Not well. If you can feel any resistance that I have about it or any kind of angst when I'm talking about it, it's more about the place that I went to. They were just like, you're splitting, which if you don't know what splitting is, it's like, you can't see the gray and anything. It's like either you're the love of my life or if you fuck me over, I want you dead and I never want to talk to you again. - There's a bunch of weird little sayings to describe BDP. They're either at your feet or your neck. - Yeah, right? - That's one I just heard from the therapist recently. - That's exactly distilled down is like, we have a volatile reactive reactions to emotions, I think, and we genuinely, a lot of times, put a lot of codependence and importance on one person, which they call like your favorite person. And if that person is the orbit of your whole entire world and just all relationships are very unstable and intense, another thing that I left out of why I went there is I got really angry when I was having these crying spells and I punched my hand through a window and had to get stitches. So that turned into, he's suicidal. - Yeah, like a 5150 situation. So it was like self-horm. That was the thing I kept on saying to this facility, you know, they're like out of the nine traits of it You have all nine and I'm like it says I'm suicidal. I don't have that and they're like you do. Oh, yeah I don't like that. So it's not that I am Pist off about the diagnosis so much. I'm pissed off about the way that they went about it. The delivery system of it Yeah, I don't feel like they were listening to you. No, I don't feel like that same thing I feel about all these places that were supposed to help kids It's like you take these vulnerable people these vulnerable people are dealing with these intense emotions and stamp them with the label and throw a bunch of drugs at them And that's it yeah, and then tough love them. I don't like it. Yeah, but just a counterpoint I will say it's also common for someone to go into their first AA meeting There's like 12 steps, right and one of them says God like I'm out. I was like, okay You could be out over the one step or you might be able to like go all these other eleven are pretty salient So similarly, it's like yeah, they fucked that up, but maybe they were right about a lot of stuff You know, I think a lot of the treats Were bright the one I've experienced with people who have not self-identified is that to me But I have had a few different friendships where It does seem like they think I am better than I am Like super natural, right? They're looking at me like I have some kind of answer to something profound You find out with your friends that have That I think have had it I felt people idolize me and then I have felt what seemed to me be like these Barrage of little tests that keep mounting up. It's like well then are you gonna meet me here? There's so much weight to it all night just become self-conscious of the fact these are tests that I'm not passing and it feels like a test And then I have been accused by a good friend of like you're trying to destroy me But I'm like, what does that even mean? That's not even something someone could do like what do you mean destroy you? Like I'm not hurting you. I'm not around your plate. I think I'll be the same higher. Yeah, like that's fantastical that I can destroy you Just the premise of it. Yeah, also. I'm not and I love you. Right. So I've had that personal experience me You did like me a lot more than you like me now, but I think I think it's all within the round That's on in the normal round. I think that's a good way of putting it though. There is a real jackal on hide Situation going on with it. Yeah, so what I love in this show has been this great gift to us again I keep bringing this up, but it was so profound We interviewed a dude a couple weeks ago whose skits of frantic and tried to kill his dad And it's like we read a lot about skits of frantic or skits of frantic episodes and what happens But it's never from the person who's experiencing it and I'm like, I'm so genuinely curious. Yes. That's amazing Yeah, so can you relate to those highs and lows of thinking someone's really special and then 100% yeah, like there are my world the most important thing. I'm the most codependent. They're my life They're everything to me. They're validation. They're acceptance. It's only important if it's coming from them Your worth is connected to them my whole entire worth so much so that I self abandoned myself In my work and everything else and all the important other things in my aspect like family and friends and become a shit brother I should someone I should friend because that is so important. That's the unifying aspect of all of these things Yeah, which is you look at addiction and you go okay the addict is Escaping their life through this substance. Yeah, the codependent in the system is also escaping their life By focusing on the addict's life and then this condition is a skate like it's funny that look We got all these labels for these conditions, but it's like we're all trying to fuck off on our all the shit We don't want to deal with and we'll find a road to do it in obsession or is acting like summer really bad and some aren't and summer Personally disorders and some are this and it's like nice thing humans like if they find something that will distract them from the Shit that drives them nuts. It's gonna be an appealing option. No, is there any voice? You're smart So is there any voice while while that kind of ramp up obsessions happening about the person? Are there any bells going off? Like you're doing it now now, but not before no, it feels good feels good You get a high from it. I don't party anymore. So that's my high Yeah, but I have to catch myself as much as I hated it. I did this thing called dialectical behavioral therapy I've heard about this fucking hated it so much It just feels like elementary weird work of like checking in with your senses and holding ice cubes if you're upset or really taking inventory about what's going on and it feels like So lame what you're doing it, but then I do it in life now. So I see the merit in it I check myself and I'm like, oh, you're idolizing this person Oh, you're wanting to do that thing where you're your whole world and you're ready to drop everything or in the other end Like if my friend hurts my feelings and I crumble of people don't like me at crumble if they say anything That's critical instead of lashing out and going like fuck you I hate you and all this stuff. I'm like I check myself. I'm doing that thing again. Am I splitting or did I just care about me? Right that you I mean, I still have moments, but I think the recovery time before it would take me a couple months to realize that I was being crazy then I went down to a week then I went down to a day then I went down to like I can check myself within like 30 seconds and be like, I'm so sorry. I was doing that thing that I do I'm in the middle of one of my things here. Yeah, this is not about me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm some amazing growth Yeah, please extend me a little patience Get my arms around this thing. How did you get turned on to the dialectical That was one of the things that so I'm feel like I'm really ragging on this place There was eight hours of therapy every day and a lot of it. I hated and a lot of it I resent it and the one that I hated the most Was the thing that I love the most now was the dbt groups. Okay dbt groups. Yeah dialectical behavioral therapy groups So how will that work? It's a group meeting group meeting. It's similar to a actually it's similar to all these kind of meetings And I don't know I feel like that's when I really clicked for me where I was like We have so much in common. Yeah, we have so much overlap and As much as I hate this thing and resist it There's got to be a reason that we have 99% of the same exact story here. Yeah Yeah, this is too coincidental. It's a little too coincidental So that really chilled me out and doing that group stuff where I could kind of commiserate with the other people That had it how stupid it was yeah that helped me there was a community This is I think the great magic of the program is yeah if you're telling me what's wrong with me and what I need to do It's just a dead end street. Yep, but if I can just observe someone being honest about what they're going through I can find myself in them That's exactly it. It's so powerful and it takes away all the defensiveness. It's why I like even popping into Slaw and popping into a I don't necessarily think I'm an alcoholic but there's moments where I'm in there where I'm like Oh, that's like 90% of my life and what it could be if one thing changed, you know Yeah, yeah, that affects me way more than going to a place and having them just tell me what I am and give me a bunch of meds Yeah, yeah for sure me too. I'll regret saying this because you're going to explain. I'm gonna feel stupid for now But I do feel like a group therapy for bdp has a unique set of risks in the same way that SLA does When you first hear about SLA or swall you're like hold on a bunch of sex actually get together and help themselves recover This sounds like a recipe for disaster won't everyone just be fucking in the bathroom like that is kind of right right Yeah, yeah, so is there any risk in that group? God, it would be fun though Daisy chain of he's the savior who thinks he's the savior who thinks he's the savior I'm gonna probably get in trouble for saying this but I don't think it's much different than sitting on set with a bunch of actors A lot of them are undikes. That was with personality disorders. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah for sure I don't know if there's danger in it. I think it'd be beneficial. It depends on where you're at, but maybe really fun Yeah, okay, you could say the same thing with AA like was it ever just gonna go get drunk afterwards? Yeah, that's why I'm admitting that I know it's a flawed question But also I also am being honest about the fact that it gives me anxiety that all the people the same condition Do you feel that when you go to AA like a little bit of that anxiety? I go to very few public meetings, but I used to go to a ton. I mostly go to dudes houses But I'm judgemental still so I definitely will be looking around the room But I'd spot two turkeys that I'm like these two are definitely relapsed together Like you know, these like like they're pairing off. Yeah, cuz again, you can bond over like and this is kind of a joke And that feels good. It's like being in the back of a classroom And then you know, only a couple sentences between this place. This is a joke to let's go the bar Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it dudes do go out together But in general though, it's it was very low percentage that that's happening I would say I want to add one thing on to what you just asked about that group. Yeah I think it would be really good because the person that I was and how much my symptoms were showing at that area And time is completely different than the person that's sitting here in this chair So to put those people in the same room that are all on different Levels or whatever the fuck you want to call it. I think they could learn a lot from each other honestly Yeah, well, and again, that's another magical component of it is you're providing so much service to the other dudes there That are further along in their recovery to be reminded. Oh, yeah, man I don't know. I first got my diagnosis. You know, I was a man. I think it is reminded of the chaos Yeah, in that person's life and it's so helpful to keep you on the path. Right. It's like when you're in AA and the person gets their one month token And you're like, Oh, God, I remember or the most valuable thing is the dude who relapses and comes in and tells us about the amount of shames got right now How ugly it was immediately as it always is you know, that's the most helpful thing not the dude that's like celebrate Yeah, 35 you're 100% now that you have had that and you have had success with therapy from Do you feel compelled when you meet a new dude to be like, "Hey, so you should know I have this or not?" - Yeah, I do, actually. And a lot of times they're like, "What are you talking about?" They're hearing that for the first time, right? - Yeah, yeah, what's the good news? And they're like, "I've never noticed anything." And then in my head, I'm like, "Maybe I don't know." - Right, yeah. - Maybe I'm wrong. - Maybe I'm wrong. - Maybe I'm wrong. But I think as much as I hate the labels of things, I think it's helpful for other people, the labels, and contextualizing what it is, and having them look it up in Google, like what the fuck does he mean? He does this splitting thing sometimes and to be aware of it. - You didn't define splitting enough for me, did I not? - Yeah, I got it. It's the either idolizing or-- - Oh, the two, those two, yeah, the two extreme, right? It's kind of like what you say about that at your feet or at your neck. They go hand in hand with each other, but I think it can be helpful. - Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine ever, I never did meet a girl that I didn't immediately say I'm an addict, so I'm gonna do weird shit. I get up and I journal and I meditate. You know, now I'm gonna go to meeting. - It's who you are. There's no hiding this. - Also, it's not gonna work with someone who doesn't accept it and know it. - You just know right away, like it probably should tap out now because it's-- - Exactly. - But the shame level is much higher for you. I wanna recognize, I mean, I wanna be honest about that. It's like, in the many things that people can admit, you're like, "Addiction's fine now." If you're in the closet of an addict, that's like a very 70s thing. Totally, catch up. SLA is still trickier. That's tricky for people. And then to say BDP, these are still things that are like, you're the vanguard of that. You're brave to do that. - Oh my God, I'm so sorry, that's not fun. - We did it the same exact time. - Whoa! - Sorry, I said that again. - Mine was a door burn and it just won't, I don't know how to turn that shirt off. It's on Do Not Disturb. - Yeah, look at you. - Is that your shirt? - I don't know. - Monica's going out of date tonight. - Oh my God. - She's getting a special shirt. - You are? - For the day. - Is that fun? - I love that. Where's the shirt from? - Why is that? - Oh, hot. - Yeah, it's a huge shirt. - Where are you going out of date? - Where is he taking you? - Okay, that's a good first day. - First day, it's good, chill. - It was very yesterday. - On another day? - No, just with my friend Jess and I'm not going to say that. - Okay. - Yeah, 'cause that feels like, well, this is special then. - Yeah, I know. - You're in 12 hours a day? - Yeah. - You're going to be back tomorrow. - Unless the waitress from the night before is your same. - I do go there a lot, so I do worry. They're like, "Monica!" And he's like, "Oh, how often do you come here?" I'm like, "Oh." - That's good though. - I guess. - I don't want to think about it. - Yeah, just you're in security talking. - And no matter what, it's going to be bad. - Yeah. - Exactly. - But they're like, "Monica, you're our favorite customer ever." Oh, fuck. - Oh, it's over. - Yeah. - You're always so generous and we love having you. Oh, fuck, this is, you're going to hang on. - That's so embarrassing. - So anyways, I sincerely want to say thank you, dude. I love when people go first. And they hear you say those things you said to me. I hope they're said to you, you deserve it. I think it's much bolder for you to come out and do that. - Thanks man. Okay, let's talk about voicemails for Isabel. - Oh yeah, well, I'm here. - This is your new project. - I saw it. - You did, what'd you think? - I loved it. I'm a rom-com sucker. I normally don't watch the movie or read the book or do anything on purpose so that there's like an objective, you know, whatever, for cutting. But it popped up on my Netflix and I was like, "Oh, shit." - And you really need to know, 'cause I don't want you to be on my neck over this. - I want. - I watch people shit. - Yeah. - I went last night to watch it. I told my family, I can't hang the night. I have research you do on watching this movie. I got on my Netflix preview content. It was not there. - Oh shit. - So this is a inspired link. Crazy blessing 'cause she never watches it. I always watch it. In this case, I caught it. - Reverse back. - And she did. - Reverse back. - So you tell me. - Yeah, I loved it. I thought it was so, well, I don't know how much premise. - The premise we can tell is I watched the trailer. - Okay, you're right. - I did what I could do. - Okay. - But yeah, this girl, Zoe Deutsch who I love. - We just love her. - She's the best. - She has a sister who has passed and she keeps calling the sister's phone and leaving her these kind of confessional voice memos. And then the number gets reassigned to thank God a gorgeous dude. - Gorgeous. - I love it. - I obviously loved him up as soon as I was like, who is this guy? - He's gonna make you horny. - Cool. - Yeah, he is. - Yes. - He's hot. - He's hot. - But it's so sweet. - I cried multiple times and I'm pretty dead inside. Yeah, so it did get me. Zoe, so good. All of you guys are so good in it. Everyone's so natural. And it's a rom-com. We need more rom-com. - I know, we're bringing them back. - So we're bringing them back and it makes me so happy. It makes me so happy. - I feel the same way. I cried when I read it on the plane and I was like, oh, shit, this one's good. This one's good. - It is. - You're so funny in it. You played-- - Thank you. - Dick. - Listen, I've played a dick in a dumb house. That's all I get. It's all they see me as. - I've got an anchor here in Los Angeles, so-- - So you're doing just fine. - No, no, no, no. - I'll take a great plane of Dick. - Typecast something. - But it's funny. It's a funny thing. - Yeah, it's a funny, different kind of version of that character, but it's so good. And Nick Offerman's hilarious in it. I couldn't stop laughing all day on set with him. Yeah, I love that movie. - I think it's gonna be a big hit. - You know what I like about it a lot, too, is the main character is fucked up. And unlikeable at certain moments, like I miss rom-coms, like how to lose a guy in 10 days and ever been kissed for their, like, a little deceitful and have a secret. - Yeah. - Maybe they're doing some light stalking. - Exactly. - That was very popular. - That was popular. - It was cool. - Yeah, that's friends wedding. - Exactly. - It's all over loose. - By the way, she's kind of horrible in that movie. - Yeah, she is, but she's so good. - But you love her. And that's Zoe's ability to make an unlikeable character the best. - And you love her. - She's like Kristen in that way. - Yes, they both do that really well. - She's like, I just killed your mom. - Yeah. - And you're like, you're so good. - I'm like, oh my God. - Hey, I understand. - I was like, I'm gonna walk. I'm not even looking so cute. - Yeah. - They had that similar quality, but she's so good. - She's so good, man. - Yeah. - She's so good. - I love her. - Watch it, guys. - It's really, really good. - Watch it, everyone is really good. - On Netflix, I just saw this note rob wrote 340 hard out. I fucked that up. - Oh, wow. - I'm so sorry, I hope you had a big, big trouble. - 4 o'clock, I'm good. - You're good. - I have accent training for prison break. - Oh, I'm excited. - We'll talk about prison break. - We're redoing prison break. - You reboot, yeah. - Okay. - I'm starting on Monday. - Wow. - And are you a prisoner? - I'm not. I'm outside of the prison. - Oh, okay. - And what's your accent? - West Virginia. - Oh boy. - Yeah, pretty epilichee hillbilly. - Yeah. - Very demon copperhead. - Ooh. - Yeah. - I'm rereading that right now. - That's a good idea. - Yeah. - I'm watching Buck Wild right now on MTV. It's like the Jersey Shore of West Virginia. - Oh my god, it's so good. - I would love that. - Do you think I'm mud bogging? - Oh, every day, it's insane. - I would do well in West Virginia. - We did the pilot there. I never felt hot or in my life. - Yeah. - I got five in LA, 10 in West Virginia. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - What is that on? What is prison break? - It's gonna be in Hulu. - Oh, it is. - Yeah, it's gonna be Hulu. - It's exciting. - Beautiful. - Well, listen, dude, you're gonna have a wonderful ride. That means a lot coming for me out to be very honest. And you're very likable. - And working on yourself. - Yeah, thank you guys for what you do. I'm not kidding. I listen to three podgaster, one of three. - Oh, well, thank you. - Oh, that's very fine. - Keep it doing what you got. - If you ever shave it down to one, I hope we make the cut. - You will make the cut, I promise. - All right, well, I know you. - Thank you. - Thank you, adore you guys. - Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks. - Pretty good stuff. - Pretty good. - Pretty good station. - Really great station. - Hey, y'all, really great station. I wish I could find that actual. - By the way, you can't. 'Cause it's gonna sound nothing like it and then it's gonna be sad. - They played it so frequently on this Atlanta radio station that they had it recorded. It wasn't like someone called, I mean, something did originally call and say that. - Yeah. - They knew it was great. They found a really great station. - I wonder. - Station. - I wonder if Newman would remember the radio station. Should we try to call them? - Sure. - Yeah, this is high-risk. Let's see. (phone ringing) - What if it was B98.5? - Hello. - Hi, here on the radio, if that's okay. Is that okay? - Oh boy. - Okay. - I won't say where you work. (laughing) You know, I'm obsessed with when you and I are riding around in your Suzuki, Azuzu, your trooper? - Azuzu. - Azuzu trooper, red. In Georgia, and you listen to the same radio, well, maybe you listen to a lot of radio stations, but as you know, I'm obsessed still with that one gal, they played the clip of her all the time and say, hey, y'all, really great station. - Hey, y'all, y'all really great station. - Oh, it's a year-remembered station. I remember it in the station. This is already much. - I guess what we're really looking for is, do you remember what station you listen to down there? - That's a tough question. - Star 94, B98.5. - Can you hear Monica? - Yeah, let's see. - B98.5. - B98.5, star 94. - I wanna say it was country. - B95, the beat. - I wanna say it was country, wasn't it? - I'm not sure that it was. - Oh. - 96.1? - Ooh, 96.1. - That sounds country. - She says that sounds country. It sounds like it's on the gun. - You gotta be accent, everybody was, hey, y'all. - Power 96.1? - Power 96.1? Does that sound familiar? - Yeah. - 'Cause we're gonna do our best. We're gonna deploy all resources to see where you can get the clip of that woman saying, really great station. We can find out whether it was really great station or really great station. [BLANK_AUDIO] advertisement for the station that played over and over and that's why I'm like it finally just sunk into my mind Yeah, and you helped get me there like we were in your Azuzu trooper and it came on and you said along with her What's let me know wasn't the first time you heard it and then you loved it and then now I've loved it for 30 years Research, where were we in Georgia? Were we in Athens or were we up in northeast Georgia when you and Aaron lived in the the mobile home Okay, so we were at the trailer. Yeah, you call a trailer. I call it a mobile No, Megan was close though. Megan County was the next county over right? There's white County Hall County hall. Yeah, you guys were really close to that little German town, weren't you? Helen, yes, we're even miles from Helen. We're just like right on the edge of the hills in a drive-in to the hills to get to Helen Hmm, and you're right on the Hooch, right the Hoochie Well the the mobile home was not on that Hooch. There was a crypt that ran through. Okay Well, I do remember that you and I got into the Hooch You had dropped something your wallet or a watch. What did you lose in the Hooch and we had to get it? A zippo lighter. Oh, you had to get it. That's what that was a zippo lighter had to be gotten Yeah, the Hoochie was screaming when you jumped All right, I love you. Thanks for helping if you think you nailed down the radio station. Let me know so I can do so I'm saying 96-1 that's I'm wrong That was going to be happened. That would have been happens. Yeah, this one was probably a country station. Yeah, I'll do some research. Okay I love you All right, I'll talk to you soon. I'll do later. Bye. Yeah, this is what I was afraid of. That end kind of no is his recollection of it is They'll different than mine. Yeah, I want to play you song a song. Yeah, went on yonder on the jet of Hoochie Outer than a Hoochie. Okay. Well, I guess I don't have to play it. Is that when you're about to play? I can sing along the whole I know all the work AJ baby Ellen Jackson Hey y'all really great station Hey y'all really great station And his own section with his hit wait on yonder They'll be down yonder on the chat of Hoochie. It gets hotter than a hoochie-toochie. We laid rubber on the Georgia asphalt Got a little crazy, but we never got caught now by the river on a Friday night Pyramid of cans in the pan moonlight talking about cars and dreaming about women. Never had a plan. Just a living for the men in You see y'all ain't down yonder on the chat of Hoochie. How much that muddy water meant to me. I y'all really great station. I learned who I was a lot about living in a little bout love Yeah Okay, that was You really do know all the words. I'm impressed. Oh, yes How do you know all the words you're not even from Georgia when those two move from Detroit down to fucking rural Georgia I would go down there and maybe came obsessed with country and then that that's where all the the hank senior and junior and whale and all started as those two moving to the You know the stick my my home. Yeah, I'm being right next to the Hooch Right, but I'm just so surprised you know all the lyrics. I know all the lyrics of all the country songs of that Tara probably 96 Seven you probably didn't drive around enough with me when you because we were newly friends But when you came over to the house that we were staying at in Georgia When Kristen was working on bad moms we were next to the Hooch We cross it every time we drove into anywhere. Yeah, it's it's everywhere. Yeah But I Would play it for the girls Every time we left the house cuz we'd be passing the Hooch And I took Lincoln down to the Hooch and she this is a famous story. She bit me on my shoulder It went through my shirt and my skin Yeah, it's the only time she ever assaulted me. Wait really? Yeah, so the Hooch the water she drank We were on the Hooch and there were these cement steps down and probably to Get into a canoe or something and she was little if you remember that she was like under two years old She was probably delta was three months. Yeah, so she was probably two years and one month. Yeah And I was letting her walk around the steps and she's a dare devil So she wanted to get in the water But it was freezing cold and the current of the Hooch at that time of year was swift. Yeah And so I went and grabbed her right as she was about to step into the water and picked her up and she was so pissed I had intervened she bit my shoulder. Yeah, she clamped down with her two new little brand new team really great station Really great bite Oh my god, yeah, so I came home and I was like really ticked off. I told Kristen like you went through my shirt You're mad at her? Well, it's evil. You don't like bite a human being Oh, yeah, now in her room, you know what my 5th grade school was Had a Hoochie high chat Hoochie Elementary same thing chat Hoochie Elementary. That's great on the Hooch Did you call it the Hooch? No, I call it chat Hoochie Elementary But I mean the river. Oh, I mean yeah, people called it. Did you ever go down to the Hooch and drink Listen, listen me. What chat? Chattanoagie river is everywhere. I know it's like four minutes down the street from my parents house Yeah, so why don't you go down there and put a pyramid of cans up in the pale moonlight because no one does that Did you lay rubber on a George Asheville I mean, I went tubing and Helen you did a lot. Well like four times. Wow. Yeah, that's exciting. Guess what I didn't almost drown Oh, is there any no grievance? Did I kind of let that go? Yeah, because I guess it's evidence that it wasn't My fault like I know how to traverse a tube Mm-hmm. I've done it. Yeah, sure, but the Austin river was a guy. Yeah, that was the San Marcos river Way down yonder on the San Marcos River Tipped in my tube in my top got loose oh um Formula One drivers coming over behind me. Oh, that was about me. Yeah, San Marcos river. Yeah. Yeah, my top Got a little crazy, but you didn't get caught I think I did get caught Unfortunately, unfortunately for the catchers Anywho you're disappointed for sure That I said it was fine and rightly so it had changed the waterfall we went over used to be a gentle little cement-paved thing they tore it out made natural with big rocks and I go a little crazy. Yeah So you're disappointed in me about that rightly so I'm not actually but my response was on the I was right You always want to get to the response Well, I want you to have felt like I was willing to die for you I was willing to kill you and die for you That's something, isn't it? Listen you suck didn't it mean for that to happen? Oh my god. That was that's no so I have no I went over first with my child Like you are more equipped But holding my child so she she's more She was a roughed-up like you were but if you recall like I was dealing with her and I had to put her on the rock and go And then I said it turned my attention because I knew you were coming over and I was like, but you didn't come in You didn't have to so that I can imagine if I had died that day Well, I mean I can if you'd like I can sit here and try to imagine it But that's to me like saying what if you got hit over the Head with a falling bit of debris from a building while we were in Austin. It's like I can't see you dying in that situation at all I mean We are all right there. I was like waiting to leap in but you got yourself out of the water But yeah, I don't know how you could it because I was I was watching you come over. I watch you tip over Pop right up and go right to the rock. Yeah, that's what happened But had you tipped over and like you weren't popping up I would have been jumping in and grabbing you know, I know but by then I could have um filled my lungs with water That's too fast Yeah, that's just too fast I could have swallowed a lot of water and I would have pulled you out on the thing And then started chest compressions after I fixed your top for you You wouldn't do chest compressions You would have been like the armchair anonymous I couldn't touch your boobs to save your life. I mean, I just have to what do you mean? Well, I'd have to have Molly cover your boobs and then start chest compressions There's no time for the hat I got she with her hands. She has to get across the river Molly. She's drowning come over here I need to start chest compressions. I can't press on her boobs That's the time you can see my boobs if you're and press on them. Yeah. Okay, but press on them Leap press on if it's to save my life. Okay. I assume everyone would be okay with that I guess that's how the um people in your pyramid squad felt that they had to catch you by the pussy to save your life - He did, and I'm grateful. - Yeah, we thanked him for it. That's such an old reference about people, a lot of people listen, don't even know that. - New listeners? Tell people. - Well, just that when you were explaining that you were a high flyer and that you'd get caught and you even showed me some pictures and I said, clearly some people must have accidentally caught you by the vagina and you said, yes. - Well, and that's not the phrasing you use. - Well, it escalated from there to catch him by the pussy. - Yeah. - Which is kind of a callback. 'Cause no, it was again, way more perverse than this. He were talking about boys on the squad. 'Cause we had boys on our squad. It was a co-ed squad. - Teen boys. - Teen boys. - Catching high flyers by the pussy. It seems crazy, yeah. - So much of that porous walker, our friend, honest. - Mayfly commission. - Yes, you commissioned a beautiful piece of art of a young Monica being caught by the pussy. - It was an interactive piece of art 'cause you pulled down. - Yes. - You pulled me down so that I can't-- - That was gonna be worse like $10 million one day. 'Cause porous walkers are geniuses. - You know what, I don't-- - Oh, don't even say that. - Oh, don't say that. - No, no, I do. I do. I have all this art that I move to the house. - Okay. - So it's all in the garage, but that worries me. - Me too. I really went to the ends of the earth to get that for you. - Listen to me, I saw my-- - No, I have a grievance. (laughing) - What am I supposed to do? - I should be hanging on your wall probably. - I don't have space. - Especially when you're a brother and your dad visit, they gotta see that. - Ding, ding, ding, chat a hooch. - Yeah. - Hoochie hoochie. - Georgia, go dogs. - Georgia, go dogs. - Roll tide. - How dare you stop. - It's part of it. - Well, you guys got the last laugh. - You know, I almost wrote that in one of my posts, and then I thought that is such bad luck I cannot do. - You almost wrote Roll tide. - As, 'cause it's art, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then I thought, what am I doing? - Can I say this? - Yeah. - It's such bad luck that I've been seeing Roll tide the whole time, and they went undefeated. That's how bad of luck it was to say Roll tide. - We don't know what's gonna happen. - They're 14 and out. - What if Roll, we have a national championship or about that? - But I've been saying Roll tide for the last nine games. - What if it was to get us to this point, just to get-- - Ah, this is an accomplishment. - Just to get defeated. - You do taunt them along the ride, but then when they get to the championship, no more Roll tide. - Exactly, my brother and dad are going to the game. Here in Los Angeles. - Yes. - They'll be here Sunday night, Monday night for the game, and leave Tuesday. Quick trip, quick trip, quick trip. - The nine? - The game's the nine. - 4.30 p.m. - 4.30. - We'll be recording. - Yes, we will. No, you'll be out in time for the watch the game. - Anyway, I'm really excited for them. - Me too. - I hope they have a lot of fun. I had an incredibly fine moment as a dad a few days ago. - Ding, ding, ding, dad. - Linkin came up to me and said, hey, I really want to go to that NASCAR race at the Colosseum again this year. Can we go? Can we go? You better believe we'll go. She asked me to take her to a car race, Monica. - That's exciting. - Oh, so we're gonna go. - Fine. - Yeah. - That's great. - The Clash in the Colosseum. - Wow. - This is the one I rolled? - No, our Colosseum. - Wow, they don't do have NASCAR races in Rome yet. They're doing every other thing. We should have some of a host of race in the attic. - Yeah. - That's how small the Colosseum is. - That reminded me of when I was home. My dad reminded me. I was speaking of children. - There's 150 of them just piled out of my roadmaster station, Monica. - Why did you have to drive that? - Too many kids. - Oh, there's a party bet bus. - Oh, it's a play day. - Don't take North human. She has friends all around. - Do you know her ignores everyone when she got friends? (upbeat music) - Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. (upbeat music) - Okay, I don't remember how this came up, but my dad was recalling me learning how to ride bike. - Oh, boy. - And I have some memories of this too, but I think I've blocked a lot out. And now I know why. - Okay. - 'Cause there's trauma around it. - Not shocked, let's hear it. - Because per usual, I was way too old. - You'd wait too late. - You'd be learning. - How to ride bike? I was seven. - Okay, yeah. And so my dad wanted to teach me, or help me, or whatever. He was like, let's, you know, we're gonna do it in the driveway. And I said, no. - Sure. - Absolutely not. I will not be seen. - Yeah. - The whole reason I'm needing to ride a bike is 'cause everyone in this neighborhood, this was in Memphis. We had just moved to Memphis. And everyone in the neighborhood rode bikes. That's like how you hung out. - Yes. - And I didn't know how. So I was like, I gotta learn how and he's okay. And then we go in the driveway and I was like, I'm not doing that. And then also I refused to wear a helmet apparently. - Well, that's natural. - You don't wanna look like a dork. - Right. - Fucking geek. - He then, which this part was said, he was like, I probably put it on too tight. I was like, no, I don't think. Maybe, but also I think I just-- - You would have let him know if it was too tight. - Yeah, I would have screamed it out. - Yeah, yeah. - So I took it upon myself to learn how to ride a bike in the garage. (laughing) - Close to him. - I can't be done. - Close garage. - Okay, they can't be done. - It can't be done. - No, the cars were removed. And then my dad said, he said-- - He was just ridden into wall of stuff. - He said, he came home from work and he said, I said, where's Monica? And mom said, she's out there riding. - No. - And I went out there and you were just going like-- - And a circle in the garage. - She's going in little circles in the garage. - That's great. - I had to make you a pretty advanced rider right out of the gates. - He was very impressed when he was retelling the story. I couldn't believe it. - Yeah, so he didn't teach you how. You just went in the garage and figured out. - I just got to try. - Oh my God. - In circles. - Oh my God. So insulin. - No, that is the power of needing to fit in. - Oh sure. - Oh, yes, yes. - I will. - To get in the garage by yourself. - That's impossible. That's impossible. - Yeah, you can't learn to ride a bike in a garage. 'Cause you're learning. - Well, turning. - Turning. - Yeah, that's the hardest part, yeah. There's no straightaways. And then you hopped out in the neighborhood and peddled your little bike around. - And I rode all the time with my friends. - Oh fun. - No, I'm sure I did have to wear a helmet. - I wasn't a thing when I was a kid. It was zero, no one had a helmet. - While we were talking about this, Neil was there too listening to this. And he said, and then I just took Neil out like onto some parking lot and then he just immediately knew how to do it. - Wow. - And I said, that's us. - The Padmins. - That's indicative of who we are. Like I can't really do it. - Uh-huh. - But I'm gonna just like, by sheer will. - Yes, call your way into doing it. - Something happen. And he has a talent. - Yeah, just a natural. - But he doesn't care. - Yeah, he wouldn't have gone in the garage, gone in circles. - No, he wouldn't have. Anyway, I thought that was funny. - That's very funny. - Well, that's it. - That's everything. - That's the whole thing. - It's not. - Now listen, I'm glad to report that your expensive rain boots made it through to a second season. - I know. - Sometimes I worry when you get these things like, how many wears are you gonna get out of them? They'll probably be obsolete next year 'cause fashion moves like a speeding bullet. And here you are in the same ones. They look great and I'm glad to see that they're here. - Two things. One, these are not that expensive. - Okay. - Two. This was from Tuesday. I got these before London. - Oh my gosh, okay, great. So we're on season three of these. - So I'm good at wearing my clothes. - Those are great. They're orange. - Speaking of, I'm wearing my sweater that Rob gave me mixed messages. - In your city next to the painting that Rob commissioned, which I'm staring at too. So Rob's really getting a lot of mileage out of his presence. - Yeah. Okay, this is for Anna Kendrick. - Oh, wonderful. - Yeah, great episode. Really honored that she felt comfortable and that she loves our show so much. - Me too. - It's really sweet. - It's funny 'cause we recorded the intro yesterday. - Mm-hmm. - My memory said I felt like I should reach out. And then I was like, "Why didn't I reach out?" And then I was like, "Well, 'cause no one's gonna read Instagram." So then last night I actually reached out. And she responded. - Okay, so what? - I haven't talked to her yet, but I'm going to. - You, wait, what? I thought you said you've reached out. - Yeah, basically saying, "I wanna chat with you." - Oh, got it. Well, I did wanna say that she reached out to me after, she reached out actually before the interview, which was awesome, saying she was excited and that I know what it'd take in a while for us to be able to get this up. 'Cause it was years ago that I originally reached out and that we were gonna do this. And then it took a while for her to be able to really. - Yeah, yeah. - So yeah, so she reached out about that and then after she was really sweet and said that, you know, she hopes it was a good episode and then there was enough. And then she said, "And I do think it's important that I say this." She said, that she had been thinking about the interview alive and particularly the portion where we were talking about gaslighting and she wanted to make clear that she was sorry if anything she said minimized my experience and that she is used to lending a lot of compassion towards the addict and sometimes that comes at the expense of the person who is harmed and she said like including herself and then she said which I thought was really important like it was important to me to hear she basically said I commend you for sticking up for yourself even if it was gonna make other people uncomfortable right and that meant a lot that she said that because that is hard to do yeah because gaslightings tricky right like you already wonder your that's built into it a wondering of what's real what's not and how big of a deal is this so then when that gets questioned uh-huh it's like repeating that cycle of wait but it no the maybe it's not or may you know it's just doing that all over again uh-huh yeah anyway so I thought it was very generous and lovely of her to say that no she's incredibly lovely um-hmm also a post script she went in afterwards and met Kristen and it was oh yeah yeah how was we talked about you know yeah Kristen was jealous it was good it Kristen got to say to her face I'm just jealous of how tailed you are is very sweet oh that's nice yeah okay she was right about Maine it does have the oldest population percentage rise in the United States really yes then Florida then Florida then do you want to guess the third oldest state Mm-hmm Arizona no what good guess West Virginia oh interesting old people a lot of this these numbers might be affected by like what state do young people move out of the most mm-hmm yeah for sure this is age 65 or older and this was as of 2020 you have the full list there oh yeah have the main was number one uh-huh number three West Virginia ah-huh number two oh Florida is number two yeah yeah okay great so number four would what we'd be guessing for why only no they're not yet that I wouldn't guess that yeah none of these are that guessable Arizona's not until twelve oh my god yeah yeah do you want to know what 50 is yes you talk sure that's obvious really because Mormons have so many kids so there's got to be probably per capita more young kids per capita in Utah than any other state interesting okay also Georgia is 47 that's young mm-hmm let's find Michigan Michigan Michigan is 14 it's 14 oldest okay pretty old that's pretty old it's 18.2 percent you think it's good I don't know I just anytime there's a list and there's a number one yeah I assume number one's the best okay that's fair old this is is the best okay main is the best and then Utah's the worst in this case in the specific case yeah in the shootout yeah I like to compare mean ages of life expectancy state to state because I bet there's some wild variation even within the country yeah Rob looked at please like I think a Mississippi life expectancy is much lower than St. New York you got it okay hit us this is in 2019 list of US states and territories by life expectancies so let's hit me with the life expectancy of New York New York is 81.4 years that feels old now hit me with Mississippi Mississippi 74.9 big difference seven-year difference can you kind of scroll through and see what the lowest is 51 is West Virginia 74.8 oh my god and it's the third oldest and they're not living very long that's weird that is weird what's number one life expectancy number one Hawaii 82.3 then California oh congratulations everybody I'm gonna guess Georgia okay 79.4 77.9 I remember 39 that's not that good Southern cooking good yummy Southern deep fried cooking or how about this here's a positive spin okay they're in a bigger rush to meet Jesus oh that makes sense too okay it always confuses me truly I'm not saying this in a condescending way I feel like if I was a full-blown Christian I believe lock stock and barrel that I was gonna go to heaven and meet Jesus yeah I'd be in a hurry to get there that's the part I don't really no because you still have family it's like there's still people on earth that you you know no kids are family their families aren't like let's say no kids are family and I still like living I know but I like living on earth like even if I thought oh I would you if there's a much better place it's kind of like it's like you know that Emily burgers next to your house okay and then you have some old ground chuck in your fridge and you choose to make a burger when you can go next door to Emily I don't have his way better approve comparison I don't see this is crazy listen heavens better than the U.S. of A but you're gonna be there for eternity so you you still want to live your life here with people you care but also it doesn't require kids and spous to have loving relationships that you want to keep up and enjoy and no I wasn't trying to demean anyone without what I'm saying I understand wanting to stick around and see your kids like hit milestones yeah but I want to stick around just to enjoy life but to me and Aaron were Christians and I believe all in I'd be like buddy let's get up there and ride dirt bikes and heaven like let's go to the better place that'd be me if I knew there was a better place I want to be in the better place all the time I moved to California because I thought it was a better place to do the things I want like I'll go to wherever is better I ain't trying to sit somewhere that's less good well you don't get to go if you kill yourself I know but eating fried chicken all day every day isn't killing yourself technically according to Jesus or smoking cigarettes they won't keep you out of heaven so I could like drink hard smoke cigarettes EKFC and then go right go do wheelies in heaven it's probably just the doubt well that's the thing that's what makes me think there must be some doubt always like to bring up religion to keep things moving mm-hmm yes I'm not alienate the I always feel bad by the way so you know quite often Christians comment they'll anger them one in particular they were some of the more hardcore Christians were really upset the way you've all was talking about Christianity and Jesus and the way I guess was with him which I didn't find all that but that goes to show I'm out of touch with what might offend you you know I guess my assumption is there's no reason for you to be offended I don't believe in the thing like I'm not offended that you don't believe like I do that there's nothing but that's not how it works because I guess I'm talking about someone they love deeply when I talk about Jesus so that that needs to be considered I guess but in any way I was a little shocked by that aside from being shocked I don't like it if Christians feelings were hurt when I'm talking about my point of view that's not my goal I don't I don't want that at all no that's never my intention I want Christians to listen to this show yeah of course yeah and you don't welcome you don't want to make people feel bad that's an alienated yeah exactly okay do lie detector tests work no pretty much no I mean there's lots of findings I don't think they've been used in court in a long time used to be like they'd always they gave everyone a polygraph and it was like very damn well before DNA because now we just have this greater thing you know and they were like in all the police stations and they always wanted to hook you up to one and you had to have your lawyer say no no yeah okay I'm gonna real little bit about this the accuracy of polygraph testing has long been controversial and underlying problem is theoretical there is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception and honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be not anxious I think what it detects is nervousness yeah so then your question is does nervousness really what it detects is a change yes because it's based on this baseline that they gather from you but whatever a particular problem is that polygraph research has not separated placebo like effects the subjects belief in the efficacy of the procedure from the actual relationship between deception and their physiological responses one reason that polygraph test may appear to be accurate is that subjects who believe that the test works and that they can be detected may confess or will be very anxious when questioned if this view is correct the lie detector might be better called a fear detector some confusion makes sense some confusion about polygraph test accuracy arises because they are used for different purposes and for each context somewhat different theory and research is applicable. Thus, for example, virtually no research assesses the type of test and procedure used to screen individuals for jobs and security clearances. Most research has focused on specific incident testing. The cumulative research evidence suggests that CQT's detect deception better than chance, but with significant error rates both of misclassifying innocent subjects, false positives, and failing to detect guilty individuals, false negatives. I have a friend in the FBI that was telling me, boy, was it him or was it a friend in the CIA? Maybe the CIA think these enormous amounts of money to pay off their informants. And I was told that they have to do a polygraph every time they return from having given the supposed money. Because there's really no way to track whether these agents are handing over the full amount. Yes. Yeah, and so apparently they were readily in use. Is that a right way to say? Interesting. Recently, when I was talking to him about this, so I think they might use them at the FBI internally. There's also things you can do. There's like pills you. There's like stuff that you exactly need the things you can take. Yeah, I always have convinced myself. I kind of would like to take one because I think I could, I could pass it. Yeah, I think I could. Yeah. I think I could. I think I might have a polygraph tonight. Oh, wow. You know who would be bad at it? The robot. He'd be perfect. No, he'd be bad. Like he wouldn't be able to tell lies. I don't have any vitals. They're that they per YouTube monitor for me. Unless you hooked up to my corridor, where I have to create a falsehood which I can do. It's a bit of my programby. If it's required to save a human life. Oh, a way to do an example. Great. Did you see a little girl running hide in here? No. No, I did not see one. That's a lie I told to get the killers on first. What? What? You understand my scenario? Oh, young girl has come and hid in my robot closet that the bad man has if you see a little girl. And I have, but I tell them that I have it. That I have a corridor in my programby. That allows me to save the human lives. Oh, my God. Yeah. OK, the robot is dealing with a lot more than I knew. Well, the robot has to be programmed for every situation. So if someone's hiding from bad guys, he has to be able to lie. Oh, my God. So the robot is moving throughout the world. To save human lives. That's my number one mission. To help you and save you with your chores. It's up. Also to go to parties. Well, no, it's looking. I attend the parties. I have to make sure the real boys are OK. Oh, he's getting his track of the real boy. What are the real boys? Who's monitoring you, robot? Um, that's a very good question. Oh, no, we don't even know. Let me sing while I figure out that it's on. My older's name is Samantha. I like the helper put on her makeup. Wait, that's a song. Wait, what? She purchased me from the robot depot. She often takes long naps. Which is why I go out, look, get furts up parties. Wait, wait, he said, hold on. He's a person or robot to Samantha. Did he say he was going to sing a song? He didn't know the answer yet. So he was going to sing a song in the meantime. Why, but then he didn't. Then he started talking about Samantha. Well, your question was, who owned you? Yeah. And it took me a minute to think of Samantha. So I said, let me think about that. I'm going to sing a song in the meantime. And then I thought of it. Wait, but you didn't sing a song. He didn't sing a song to think about it. Well, I'm always singing the song. Oh, that's the song the song. That's just the way you talk, robot. Yes, I do, I did a song. Humans found that it's less scary if I sing. You have a different voice, really? Oh, I always sing a song because it's disarming for the very scared humans. They're afraid of us robots. But we're just real boys trying to come out. But you're not real boys. You're not a real boy. I wish I had a crying noise because you hurt my robot being on you. Oh, no, I don't want to. I think I am a real boy. OK. It's a myth that my mom who bought me. Oh, I feel stuck, you know. About Samantha owning the robot. Well, I feel stuck because I guess if the robot wants to believe he's a real boy, I'll let him, but I'm lying to him. But remember when Johnny Five was alive, Johnny Five was somehow alive. OK. So he was a boy. Well, we do believe there are certain robots. We do believe our real boys. Daryl was another film about an Android robot boy. And he was a real boy. Oh. That's kind of the theme of these robot movies. They turn into real boys. OK, I didn't know that about the robot. I thought he wants so badly to be a real boy, but he's, you know, he knows he's not. It's like Pinocchio. I thought. I thought. Yeah, like Pinocchio. Would you tell Pinocchio he's not a real boy? Don't do that. Don't make me bad. I'm only asking. I'm only asking. I'm asking if you would tell Pinocchio you're not a real boy. I mean, I think I'd be conflicted because I don't want him to go through life wanting to be something he's not. Just like the robot knows how to lie to save, save someone. You could show him the same. Also, the robot would lie for you. This is so pot calling the kettle black. Oh, tell me how. You would let someone have a fake. You want people to be who they are. You wouldn't, you don't like going along with people's lies. I don't, but I'd be willing to go along with the robots lie. I'm talking about other people. No, other people know. But the robot, yes. Okay. Well, I'm just saying, I don't actually know how helpful it is to the robot. We can acknowledge that there's a wide spectrum of when that would be acceptable and not. Like the little boy who thought he was Batman for the day. Oh, duh. Right. So there is a time. There's a time to pretend that the little boy's Batman. And there's another, there's a time when a guy, some dickheads telling you that he is a wonderful person. Like, well, I'm not going to co-sign on that. Yeah. Yeah. Because one is like a potentially damaging outcome. And one, it's kind of utilitarian. And one has a beautiful outcome. But I care about the robot and I care about his growth and his life. Like I care about his robot life. What you want is sweet too. You want the robot to come to love himself even if he's not a real boy. He's so lovable. Yes. That's great. It doesn't have to be a real boy. That too is very defendable. I prefer robots over real boys. Yeah, sure. And you tell them that. Yeah. Yeah. I like you more as a robot boy. I'm sorry. I heard your feelings. Robot. It's okay. I forgive you. Hey, I have a question. Do you? Do you? I'm confused. I guess I'm also confused about your feelings because you have feelings. You ask a lot of questions. It's a quality I admire and you are so perfect and wonderful. Stop. Provide. I'd like to be your best friend till the end. We could live a new hamper. Oh. Okay. They have very liberal policies there. Yeah. I think we'd do great there. Or we could move to Utah. Because I've got to live through a thousand years old. Yes. And it's a very young population. He's so sweet the robot. He's a very nice real boy. Uh-oh. Okay. All right. I don't know how to do this. Okay. Well, I'm happy to hang out with the robot today. Me too. And we should be talking more about Anna, but at the same time we talked a lot in the episode. Exactly. And I almost doesn't feel right to talk about it. So interesting. Oh, why? It was just so wonderful. I would feel weird talking out of school about it. Like something about it was so intimate that it would feel weird to be talking out of us. I don't know. Yeah. That's my reservation about it. Yeah. Well. Well, I love you. I love you. Love that episode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.