Luigi Mangione Expected to Plead Guilty: Sources

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That's AvocadoGreenMatress.com to get up to 20% off. AvocadoGreenMatress.com. It's Friday, August 14th, and the biggest trial of the year might not happen. You start here. Luigi Mangione is expected to plead guilty to something. You're allowed to turn directly to the judges, hey, judge, what will you give? An absolutely huge hearing about to start New York will walk through the possibilities. These sailors have been on an aircraft carrier for eight straight months or some of them jumping off. Essentially, the carrier has been on 24-hour combat operations. Fears of suicide in the Arabian Sea and what the flock is happening. They can, in a lot of cases, search cameras outside of their state all across the country as well. One of the nation's fastest growing surveillance companies blinks in the face of controversy. From ABC News, this is Start Here. I'm Brad Milky. Luigi Mangione is said to go on trial just weeks from now in the case of the killing of United Health Care CEO Brian Thompson. Thompson, a father of two, was gunned down at point-blank range outside his Manhattan hotel. But in the year and a half since his death, Mangione has become more than a murder suspect. He's become a symbol. To some, he's the sign of an increasingly violent era. To others, he's the manifestation of rage against the health care system. To his lawyers, though, he's simply not guilty. That has been his plea at every point of these proceedings. Now, some of his charges have been dismissed, but at this point, he is still facing state charges of murder, of criminal possession of a forged instrument for allegedly carrying a fake ID, and several counts of criminal possession of a weapon. In federal court, he's facing two charges of stalking. This week, we started hearing rumblings of a potential plea deal. A hearing was scheduled for today. Now, ABC News can report that according to sources familiar with the matter, a guilty plea is expected to be announced in connection with the federal prosecution of Luigi Mangione. Now you heard the key word there, expected. We're not exactly sure what is going to happen until it happens. So, let's start today with Brian Buckmeyer. He's ABC News' legal analyst, Brian. What do we know about this plea deal at this point? Like, what could he be pleading guilty to, do we know? So, first, I wouldn't call it a plea deal. And the reason why I wouldn't call it a plea deal is because a plea deal suggests that the government in this situation, the Southern District of New York, is offering something by reducing a charge, by suggesting a lighter sentence. And in exchange for that, he would plead guilty. That's the deal, right? You get less than what you had in order to plead guilty. But if we look at what's being reported, that there's going to be an announcement of a plea that there's not really a plan per se in the effect, that's not a deal. That's not two people coming together to agree to finalize this case. What I think is more likely to happen based on what we're hearing and also the fact that this is one, a joint request for a conference and two, the District Attorney in New York City wrote a letter to the federal court saying, "Hey, if you do this, we want the most stringent and strongest punishment." I think what's happening is they're asking for an open plea. What's an open plea? So, you could take a plea in two different ways. As a defense attorney, you could talk to the prosecutor and say, "Hey, let's hash this out. Let's get a plea deal." And that's what we're usually accustomed to. But as a defense attorney, if you're getting nowhere with the prosecutor and they're not giving you an offer, they're not giving you something that your client wants to take, you're allowed to turn directly to the judge and say, "Hey, Judge, what will you give me?" Now, the difference between that is the judge can't dismiss any of the charges to then make the deal sweeter for you. Oh, like sometimes you hear, like, "Hey, if you plead to murder two, then we'll get rid of the murder one charge." Judge can't do that, but they can be like, "Thanks for pleading guilty. You'll only receive this many years in prison." Or that's an example, but something like that. 100%. The judge can't say, "I'll get rid of murder one to give you murder two." That's a prosecutor's job. And where in the federal case, this is the most important part, there's no mandatory minimum to stalking that leads to a death. There's a maximum of life in prison, but there's no mandatory minimum. So in essence, an open plea would be turning to the judge and saying, "Hey, you've got a big runway here. Do you think you'd get him something that he could take? That's what I think is going to happen." That's my question, Brian. Again, we don't know if this is what's about to happen. But this is, I think, an interesting thing for us to keep our eye on as the morning goes on. If Luigi Mangioni did sort of an open plea, like you're describing, put his hand up and said, "I will plead guilty to this. What can you do for me? What do we expect to happen from a judge and does a judge have to accept that?" So a judge does not have to accept that. A judge can say, "I don't want to touch this with a 10-foot pole. Go to trial and take your chances there and we'll figure this out after a conviction." It's a little bit of politics to some extent, right? And don't forget, it's very different for a judge in federal court than compared to a state court judge. Their tenure is very different, one's a lifetime appointment. So could a judge in a high profile case say, "You know what? I'll put this on my shoulders. I'll be the one who decides how much prison time Luigi Mangioni possibly gets period. I've got lifetime tenure. I'm a federal judge." That's very possible. Or the judge can say, "You know what? I'm good. I don't need this heat on me. Let's just go through the normal way of doing this." And so what does that mean that we've talked so much about this week about the fact that there are two different jurisdictions here. There's a federal case and then there's the state case. What we're talking about is a guilty plea in federal court, but would it be considered double jeopardy for him to have to face a state trial too? Because let's not forget, like these are different charges in each of the courts. I understand why people keep saying, "Hey, this could bring up double jeopardy if he does plead guilty in the federal court when they're looking at previous decisions that the courts have said." Mangioni's facing stalking charges in the federal case, and murder and gun charges in the state case. It might come from the same set of facts, but those are different charges. And that's not how double jeopardy works. Yes, it's from the same set of facts, but he is technically facing different charges in two different jurisdictions. That's not double jeopardy. That's why ultimately I think this 3D chess will not work. Okay, all eyes on lower Manhattan this morning. By the way, Brian Buckmeyer here is the host of our narrative podcast from ABC Audio. It's called "Burden of Proof Luigi Mangioni," following the background and all the twists and turns of this case. New episodes coming out every week. They're a midseason now, so check that out in whatever podcast app you're listening to now. 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Right now, go to abcsecretsavings.com/starthere for 50% off the best bedding you will ever sleep on that's abcsecretsavings.com/starthere. (upbeat music) Earlier this year, as the war in Iran was really picking up steam, there was this weird story circulating within the military community. Whenever proudest aircraft carriers, the USS Gerald Ford had made its way to the region, but its toilets were clogged. At the time, this was a major headache for sailors, like they had already been deployed for months in places like Venezuela, now they had to head into a new war like this. Well, this was not the only aircraft carrier where sailors have been putting up with long hours and stressful conditions. All this year, the USS Lincoln has been floating in the Gulf region with its eyes set on Iran. Family members have described stories of moldy showers, food shortages, and yes, broken toilets. Well this week, the military times reported that two sailors on this ship, they've tried to jump overboard. - One wife saying her husband reached a breaking point. After his deployment kept getting extended. - Now lawmakers are ringing alarm bells over what they're describing as potential mental health crisis at sea. ABC's Louis Martinez covers the Pentagon, Louis. What is happening on board the USS Lincoln? - Well Brad, as you laid out, there's been a series of incidents that have been taking place over the last nine months that this ship has been at sea. Let's remember that this ship left in late November from San Diego on what was supposed to be a six the seventh month deployment to Asia, the Indo-Pacific, and instead early in the year was diverted towards the Middle East because of what was going on. There's the tensions built up with Iran. It was being seen as potentially one of the ships that might be used as a key player in operations against Iran and that has actually been the case. But what is really drawing the most attention right now, are these reports of sailors potentially trying to have jumped overboard. Now that's coming from military times where they say that there have been at least two incidents. ABC News has confirmed that one sailor went overboard in early August and that that sailor was rescued from the ocean and is now still aboard the carrier right now. So that's the incident that we're most aware of right now. But what you have are these concerns that are coming from members of Congress, from family members who are reaching out to these other news organizations, expressing concerns about the mental health status of their family members who are serving aboard this ship. There are 5,000 people who are serving aboard the aircraft carrier and we're talking about around the clock operations. It's really a difficult task during any peacetime operation but it's particularly when you're at war and when you're so far away from home. One of the things that we've heard about this carrier deployment is that it's been record setting. It's been maybe it's seen more than 250 days but what's really drawn the most attention is the fact that it's been about 200 days within between port visits. That's a lot. - Well, in 200 days, why is that, Louis? What's so different about this deployment than others? - Well, because essentially the carrier has been on 24 hour combat operations. Yes, there was a low on the fighting with the cease fires and all that but what we really have seen is that every day, continual operations, planes taking off on combat missions, on training missions, the ship, sometimes even came under attack. We know that Iran launched missiles in its direction and of course nothing hit. A lot of them were intercepted or fell into the ocean but this is a vessel that has been involved mightily in combat operations against Iran. - Well, and on one hand, I can imagine you'd be like, yeah, I mean, we're in a hot war like this. This is what has to happen if you're in the military. You prepare for this. On the other hand, like you have to recognize the real toll that it takes on the real humans that are serving here. What has been the response from Pentagon officials? - Well, the most senior person we've heard from is Defense Secretary Pete Hexath and he said that the reports aboard the Lincoln were being quote in his words completely misrepresented but at the same time, Brad, he also acknowledged that when ships are at sea for extended periods of time that every effort is made to take care of the well-being of those sailors that they're given opportunities because he acknowledged that these deployments can be really long. But we at the same time what we're hearing from Navy officials is that yes, the major efforts are being made to ensure that quality of care is available to them that behavioral health specialists are aboard. For example, we were told that there are five chaplains on board the aircraft carrier right now that there are also three psychologists. There are other technicians involved. There's even a therapy dog, a Labrador named Captain Fathom. So there's a lot of effort being placed into ensuring the mental well-being of the service members of these sailors aboard the carrier. And what we have been told by US officials is that the data that they're looking at is shows that they don't see an uptick in any incidence of mental health situations aboard the ship, particularly when it comes to suicidal ideations. Now, what happens next to the aircraft carrier? What we do know is that the families now at least have some clarity, we've learned from US officials that the aircraft carrier George Washington, which is based in Japan, will be making its way to the Middle East to swap out with the Lincoln. But we're not clear on the sense of timing of when that actually is going to happen. But at least family members in San Diego will have some clarity that yeah, that the end is close. And yes, it'll take some time for that swap to take place in terms of weeks, outbound and inbound. But again, clarity for the families. And that's important here in this situation right now. Yeah, really interesting that the family sort of describing these perilous conditions as Pentagon says, yeah, it is a hot war, but they're not necessarily seeing a rise in mental health increases on their side. All right, Louis Martinez covering the Pentagon. Thank you. Thank you. Do you remember this ad from the Super Bowl this year? About a dog going missing and all the missing dog posters around town. And the way we look for them hasn't changed in years. Until now, ring, the doorbell company owned by Amazon was launching this new feature called Search Party, which could allow someone to enlist their neighbor's cameras to automatically scan for a missing person or pet. One post of a dog's photo in the ring app starts outdoor cameras looking for a match. What ring might not have been expecting was the backlash. Critics immediately said, wait, you think this makes me feel good to know that a camera can automatically start looking for whoever we want them to? That AI programs can be used as souped up surveillance machines. Ring says this was never intended to violate anyone's privacy. Users can decide on a case-by-case basis whether they want their cameras to scan for a phyto or whoever's missing. But in the middle of this backlash, Amazon also decided to cancel another project, a forthcoming partnership with a smart surveillance company called Flock. Flock is not part of the Ring Doorbell Empire, but its cameras are being seen in more and more cities. The issue is that just continue to keep proliferating and they keep springing up like dandelions in the spring. Our Connecticut affiliate WTNH has noticed them. So is ABC6 in Columbus, Ohio. The whole community is concerned about our safety. And we believe that safety does not equal surveillance. Well, yesterday in the face of mounting criticism, Flock announced some big policy changes. It's checking with Joseph Cox. He's the co-founder of the TechSight 404 Media, where he's been reporting on Flock for months. So, Joseph, first off, what is Flock? And why are we hearing about them so much more right now? So, Flock is primarily an automatic license plate reader company. Its cameras constantly scan the license plates of all vehicles that drive by them. But they also capture the color of the car, the brand, the make, the model, sometimes identifying features, whether there's a little bit of damage or a banner on there. And then puts this information into a database that law enforcement can search. And there's just two very important things about that. The first is that that's usually done without a warrant. The second is that Flock has made this national network, where instead of, say, a cop in Texas only being able to search cameras in their own city or town or even inside that state, they can, in a lot of cases, search cameras outside of their state all across the country as well. Oh, so this is different, because I was going to say, how is this different from surveillance cameras? We've had these for years. They watch me whether I like it or not. The difference is these are, like, searchable across multiple jurisdictions. Yeah, and that is part of why Flock is in the news so much now is because that is a very unique Flock capability, this national database. And that's obviously very attractive to law enforcement. It's very attractive to Flock to advertise this feature as well. It's where also a lot of the abuses and controversy and privacy and civil liberties issues that we've been covering, they actually come from that national network. And that's why we're hearing about it a ton. Where are these cameras? Like, where would you usually find them in town? Are they, like, police by them? Or are they on private property or what? So it depends who buys the Flock cameras. Because what sort of separated Flock from other companies that was very early on, Flock marketed these cameras to homeowners associations, to individual communities who wanted to protect their cul-de-sac or their suburb or their HOA or whatever. So you'll see them around there. And then when cities or police departments by them, they will very often put them at the most advantageous place. And that seems to be roads which enter or exit a town or a city or somewhere like that. because I. Obviously, if there's only one road into town, you're gonna put the camera there 'cause then you can watch everybody going in and out. - So then what's the problem, I guess? Or what are the concerns that citizens are raising? 'Cause we're hearing not just from the ACLU, but even from just local people in town saying they've really come to fear and resent these things. Why? - Yeah, I think there's three main examples. Probably the first one is last year we revealed that local cops were tapping into the network for ICE. So they were performing lookups for immigration customs enforcement in this national network. ICE did not have direct access to this network, at least at the time and they don't at the moment, I believe, but cops were doing that. So a lot of towns and cities around the country, they felt like they were buying these cameras to find missing people, to find people have been kidnapped, or to stop car jacking or something like that. Oh, it turns out it's actually a vessel for immigration enforcement and the authorities as well. That's the first one. Second one is that we revealed that a cop in Texas did use the national network to look up a woman who self-administered an abortion. And obviously that's a very hot issue in the country after the overturning of Roe v Wade. - Right, 'cause it's illegal, maybe in a given state, to even drive somewhere else for an abortion. So you could be breaking the law. I do think the sheriff there said that was more like a welfare check issue where they founded this blood and they were worried there was a woman out there bleeding out somewhere. - Yeah, well, of course, it really depends on the state and the individual circumstances, but just the fact that that happened, I think, alarmed people and sort of showed what this technology could be used for. And then the last one is kind of what we've seen most coverage of recently. A several liberties group looked into it. We did a bunch of coverage on it and now the Washington Post has done some coverage as well. Cops abusing this system, using the flock tool to stalk their exes. And there's a ton of worry that cops are logging in and basically using these tools for whatever they want. And that's actually, it seems to be, you know, are reporting in the Washington Posts as well. That has sort of acted as the catalyst for some of these new recent changes made by flock as well. - Right, and we should say these are allegations that many have been denied, although flock itself has cited some of these cases as concerning, which brings us to yesterday, 'cause flock put out this long blog post in which they said, quote, nine years ago, we set out to build a company that would make communities safer and quote, they say flock technology assists officers in more than one million crimes solved annually. But then they also laid out a lot of policy shifts. What are the most notable ones? - They're changing, I believe, the default retention period from 30 days down to seven days. So they hold data for much less time. So, you know, the spectrum or sort of, the amount of time just gonna be much, much shorter in that. They are going to mandate sort of this internal audit mechanisms. - You can like tell who's looking these things up perhaps. - You can already do that in some ways, but this makes it a lot more uniform across the flock network. So those are sorts of the main changes. And they already made a bunch of changes when we did our ice reporting and our abortion reporting as well. They removed California from the national network as well as Illinois, as well as Virginia, I believe. So they keep doing these sorts of very seismical, radical changes to their product in response to reporting. And they've kind of been doing that for the past year. And of course going on a PR and charm offensive with, you know, other media are giving interviews, which have sometimes backfired for the company. - Right, we should say flock also described a commitment to both safety and privacy in this post. They describe, quote, "clear safeguards that define how information is accessed, shared, and reviewed." And, quote, "And yet now you are seeing towns just in the last few days who are so upset about flock or feeling pressure to get rid of them, that they're contracting with other brands, but they're companies like Exxon, the body cam makers." So similar, and clearly a hunger for a lot of towns and police departments to use this type of technology. Questions gonna be, "What does that technology look like in the months and years going forward?" Joseph Cox from 404 Media, really helpful explainer. Thank you. - Absolutely, thank you so much. - All right, one more quick break. When we come back, if you're gonna try to police Pickleball, you better be ready for some smack talk. One last thing is next. - A new podcast series from ABC Audio in 2020 goes inside a case that has captivated the nation. - So many people, Luigi Mangione, is a modern-day Robin Hood. - People were cheering the demise of this person they'd never met. He was a father of two, and a husband, and had a life, and was just doing a job. - From the manhunt, ending in a McDonald's, in Altoona, Pennsylvania, to what authorities are saying about a possible motive. I'm ABC News Legal Analyst, Brian Buckmeyer. Listen to Burnin' a Proof, Luigi Mangione, wherever you get your podcasts. - Legendary director Ridley Scott returns in IMAX. ♪ They go home ♪ - It's no surprise how fast civilization can disappear. - Go! - Not there. - Skell or be killed. - Jicabalurdy. - There are people out there. - They need her help. - Josh Brolam. - Shoot first. - It's an inquire afterwards. - Margaret Qually. - Okay, tough guy. - And Guy Pierce. - Arm up. - The dog stars directed by Ridley Scott, now playing in theaters. Read it R, under 17, not a minute without parents. - And one last thing. There's something kind of awesome about sports that don't require any expensive or fancy equipment. Like basketball, you need a ball and a hoop. Soccer, just a ball and a net. Even pickle ball. If there's a court nearby, all you need is a friend, some paddles and one of those cheap yellow balls. At least, that's usually how it works. (upbeat music) Let me introduce you to Mashpee, Massachusetts. To small town on the state's south coast, faces Martha's Vineyard and Chapacquidic. Population 15,000. It's quiet. Except when people are playing pickle ball. If you've ever played this sport, you know the sound, the constant thracking. But in Mashpee, town officials say they have never quite encountered a debate about anything as heated as this one. - Should one person's objection outweigh the overwhelming public benefit, these courts provide to hundreds of people. - According to the Boston Globe, after years of complaints by one resident who lives near the local courts, and then counter complaints by pickle ball players, who say this guy's a jerk. Yesterday, town officials instituted a controversial rule. From now on, if you wanna play pickle ball in Mashpee, you have to use a specially designed ball, a ball that is made to be quiet. Sounds nice, right? Don't tell that to the paddlers. - Changing the ball is not a minor tweak. If fundamentally altars the sport. - First of all, players say the balls themselves are just terrible. - Well, compared it to learning how to play golf with ping pong balls, it's just a completely different sport. The even bigger complaints, though, is the cost. The brand, initially proposed by the city, are these 3D printed pickle balls that cost $50 a piece. - And I don't think this ball is too expensive. I'm sure a lot, people affin, but I bet every one of the person that's laughing has spent more than that at Dunkin Donuts, in a matter of a week. They've since listed other acceptable brands, but not all of them are even recognized by USA Pickleball. It all speaks to two central questions. One is the one that's played towns for years now, how loud is too loud for recreational sports. The other is, what kind of equipment can you force people to get and should cost be a factor? Several towns across the country have banned Pickleball courts altogether, citing noise complaints like these ones. But remember, Pickleball has become big popular business, and now some of these residents say, they'll be taking their matches and perhaps their families and property tax dollars elsewhere. That is what's wild to me is how people are like, I don't care, like I will move over this. The guy bringing all the complaints on Mashpee, he said he was willing to re-mortgage his house so that he'd have money to bring a lawsuit, like the power of the Pickle. By the way, programming note, start here is the recipient of two Edward R. Murrow Award. They just handed them out yesterday, one for our look inside an El Salvador mega prison last year with Matt Rivers, another for a sports story where I went to really fast sailing races. You gotta get the judges what they want. Huge thanks to our team, all of you for listening throughout this last year. Start here is produced by Jen Newman, Anthony Ali, Aaron Ferrer, Emily Schutz, and Vika Aronson. Ariel Chester is our social media producer, Josh Cohan is director of podcast programming, I'm our managing editor. Thanks to John Newman, Terry Gimble, Aiman McNiff and Katie Dendos. Special thanks this week to Trevor Hastings, Clark Benson and Jim Scholls. I'm Brad Milky, I'll see you next week. Mysteries unravel and stunning truths are revealed when 2020 investigates. Follow the clues, the evidence, the breaking new details. ABC's 2020 news, true murder mystery. If you follow true crime in 2020, then you've got to listen to this. Subscribe now to 2020 True Crime Plus. Add free exclusive true crime content. Search 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple podcasts and start your free trial. Terms apply. From ABC Audio in 2020, this is "What Happened to the Mixtays?" Follow what happened to the Mixtays for weekly episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Or if you can't wait, the entire series is streaming now, ad-free for subscribers to 2022 Crime Plus, buying 2022 Crime Plus on Apple Podcast to start your free trial today.