LUCY HALE: “I Was Sabotaging My Life.”

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And so sometimes things don't always land as strongly as they could out of Mercury Retrograde. So we're in the clear. We pushed it a little earlier, so. Wow. Okay, I love that. Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute. And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon. Lucy Hill, welcome to On Purpose. Hello. So happy to be here. I am. Honestly, I've been waiting for this. I've been waiting for this moment for so long. We were just talking about how we first met. We were launching, at that time, a new app called BetterHelp. Yeah. It was during the pandemic. Yeah, you came to my house. I came to your house. We were fully in my living room and we hosted this live event. So that's been about six years ago. And I feel like since then, this interview has almost happened. But as I was driving over here, I was like, this is the perfect time in my life to be sitting down with you and chatting about life. And yeah. Very honored to be here. And has that been how you've made decisions and choices for a while? Have you used that as insight? I feel like things like astrology, my spirituality definitely has come into play more in recent years. But I am an astrology girly, I have to say. The more I learn about it, the more I dive into my birth chart, it's so complex. The more it's proven to be accurate for me, I don't think it's astrology can predict your future. And I think that gives you a toolbox to be like, oh, that's why this is so hard for me to grapple with. That's why relationships have been challenging in my life. And there's placements in astrology, and then I'll stop talking about this, there's placements in astrology that can show you past life addictions. I just find it really fascinating, and we were just chatting before, that anything that's going to help me have more self-realization, anything that's going to help my soul evolve, I dive completely. I'm obsessed. Do you use the common signs, or are you using another astrological science? Yes. So I'm a Gemini sun, Scorpio moon, Leo rising. What's yours? I don't know my full. I'm just a Virgo. That's all I know. You're a Virgo. Yeah, I'm a Virgo. I'm dating a Virgo. Oh, no way. Okay. My mother is a Virgo. My grandmother's a Virgo. I've come to really understand Virgos. Do you like Virgos? I do. I do. You guys are the hardest working sign in the zodiac and Capricorns. Yeah. You guys are the acts of service kings and queens. Yeah. I love Virgos. I love Virgos. I love Virgos and queens. So new found respect. Wow. Okay. Very good. Very good. And you were saying, Lucy, a few moments ago, you were like, this was the perfect time in your life. Why was now the right time to have this conversation? I feel like I. Do we ever really come into our own fully? I don't know, but I feel like who I am now, I'm just so much more at ease with who I am. I think I've. When we originally were going to speak, I was still kind of in the throes of not feeling fully grounded. Like I had my two feet on the ground, but I just feel like I'm able to live a little more authentically, openly. I would say I just feel a little more grounded and at peace with everything. Yeah. I've heard you say that you feel like your real life is starting right now. Yes. I mean, it's so interesting. I just turned 37 two days ago, which is just like. Happy belated birthday. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just like. But that's so wild to me because I simultaneously feel able. Yeah. I feel like I'm like 18 and like 85 at the same time. I feel like so much of my life has not made sense. So much of my life has not fit a mold of what I thought I should be doing. And I moved to LA young, just like threw myself into Hollywood, right? And so that causes you to grow up quickly or in a specific way. And I'm just at this age now where I've done all the things that I dreamt of. I'm like at the point now where I'm having to dream bigger dreams, which is really cool and just wild that I was able to make those things happen. But at the same time, I am 37 and my life doesn't necessarily look the way I thought it would compared to other people my age. And so I'm trying to be better about not comparing myself to anyone else, but it gets a little harder not to do that when you hit a certain age. I remember like when I hit 35, I was like, oh, you know, because like I do want kids and I do want specific like benchmarkers. But then I'm like, do I only want those things because society tells me I need to have those things or are those actual things that I want? And so the last year of my life, I've just had to really sit back and go, what do I want? Not what people expect of me or what my family expects of me or society expects of me. But I do feel like my life is just beginning because I'm able to like sleep at night now. I'm able to forgive myself, to love myself. I'm able to show up every day, present, clear-headed. I love my work more than ever. And so it's just like a really exciting, a really exciting time. It's just, I guess you could call me a late bloomer in a lot of ways. And I'm okay with that. That's such a wonderful answer in so many ways. And I was listening to you and thinking just how we have these timelines and deadlines on life events. And it almost feels like that timeline or that deadline will create some sort of external success or marker. And I think about all the people I know and I'm like, I know people who got married in their twenties and then divorced in their thirties. And I know people who were single for a long time and found love at 40. And I know people who didn't have kids, got married late and then had kids immediately. And then other people who've been married for 20 years. And when you start looking at real life, you start noticing how there is no real pattern or trend, but we all grew up in these small places. And I can resonate with that where everyone around you did one thing and you've kind of always maybe done the different thing. Yes. I feel like I've always inherently felt different. I have always inherently felt like I was like on the outside looking in. I always was the black sheep of my family. And I never knew where like my desire or dreams or gifts came from. Like I'm a believer that you are born with them. I think your gifts, your God given gifts, like that's a part of your mission for being on planet earth. Right. And I think that that's a culmination of lifetimes of like harnessing your gifts. Like the way you communicate, the way you speak with people, like there's no doubt if you believe in past lives, like you have honed this gift you have and you're using it for good. And I've always had that feeling as well. Like I knew I was, I didn't know if I was like destined for greatness, but I knew I was destined to be different. And I had something like literally just pulling me and guiding me along the way. There were moments like in my life, professionally, personally, where I was like, how the hell did I do this? How did I get out of this? How am I still alive? How did I achieve this? And I really believe that when you just sort of follow that intuition and that trust, the universe supports that. The universe wants you to achieve all of your wildest dreams. I've always felt like I was here to do things a little differently. I'm sure everyone feels this way, but I'm like, are people also feeling things this intensely? Or it's my Scorpio moon. Then I learned about a Scorpio moon. And I was like, oh, I've just always had a sense of intensity about me that I used to really dislike. I used to really shove that down. I used to really not nurture that part of me. And when you do that, that leads to a whole multitude of other problems because that intensity is such a big part of who I am. And dulling that down and having shame about that caused me a lot of distress and pain in my life. And so I've had to learn to honor and love. I like that part of me. And that is the work, is liking the parts of you that you're supposed to dislike. This episode of On Purpose is presented to you by Mazda. Peace of mind doesn't happen by chance. It's created through the habits we build before we ever need them. That's the philosophy behind every Mazda. With proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected, and more engaged, Mazda helps you feel ready for whatever the road brings. It's why Mazda has been around for so long. Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' Safest New Car Brand. And as of July 2026, Mazda has won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus awards than any other car brand. Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. I actually think what you're saying is very accurate. That a lot of people do feel things deeply and do experience a lot going on in their mind and head. And either they can't articulate it or they don't know why it's there. Or you think you're not supposed to. And so I was going to ask you, why did you suppress those thoughts? Was it because you thought you weren't supposed to have them? From a very young age, I have memories of experiencing things maybe that I shouldn't have experienced or seen. And I have very early memories of taking on other people's emotions that weren't mine. And I think it could have just been the part of the world I was raised in, the time. It was kind of like the mentality of be good. It was like the be good, be good, smile, that kind of thing. And when you're told that, and that's not unique to just me. I think it was just growing up in the 90s. It was like little girls were supposed to just be good, be smile, polite, go hug them. Go shower. Shake their hand. And there wasn't really space for me, I felt like, to always be me. Like I was sometimes labeled a very emotional child, verbatim. A difficult child. And I think back and I was like, let me also preface with, I have beautiful parents who loved me in the best way they knew how. And they also in their way were kids as well growing up. So I just want to like set the stage there. But I think, you know, and I reflect back on my childhood. And I know. I never felt like I was a difficult child. It felt like there wasn't like an emotional safety net always. And I carried that through. Up until now, I still work on that. Like allowing myself to feel these uglier emotions. And knowing that it's okay and safe for me to do that. People will still love me. And my people will still show up for me. Like I feel like people that meet me would automatically assume that I am that way. But in my interpersonal relationships, like I can be a bit guardrailed. And have walls up because I'm afraid sometimes to express like, I have like little monsters in me that are super intense. Right. And like we all have different pathways. And I truly believe like we all have this like soul blueprint. We all have a specific mission and purpose and reason for being here. I do believe in destiny in a way. I do believe we have free will to get to that destiny. But we're not all meant to. Be a successful actress. We're not all meant to have kids and be married by 35. I think we all have specific lessons that we want to learn. And for some people, you learn those lessons by getting married young and having kids young. For some people, it's like finding success really young. For some people, it's addiction. For some people, it's loss, grief. And I just think that's so beautiful. Like that I choose to see life through that lens because it's the only thing that really makes sense. To me, I'm like, otherwise, what do you mean? Like, what do you mean? Why are we here? I think it's to evolve and grow. And I'm saying all that, you know, if anyone's listening to this, who's like going through something where you're comparing your life to someone else, like comparison is going to snatch you right out of your own alignment. And I think that that's why sometimes social media and media in general can be really, really troubling and scary because I'm. Guilty of it as well. Like, I'll think I'm supposed to be doing this kind of acting role or think I'm supposed to be making this TikTok video or like looking a certain way or having certain things. And the easiest way to get out of your like blueprint is to get too hyper focused on what's going on around you. So, I mean, it's easier said than done, obviously. But, yeah, just releasing the narrative of what your life is supposed to look like. Like my life does not look like how I thought it would, but it looks better. And so. In so many other ways. So. How do we actually stop comparing ourselves to others? I don't know. Do you know? When you find out, let me know. What have you tried? What has worked? I feel like. The only way you can drown out the noise is you have to face yourself. You have to be brutally honest with yourself. That to me is the single most important thing a human can do because everyone's always like, well, what's your advice? What's your advice for people? My advice is for people to not listen to advice. I think we all have an inner knowing, an inner voice. It is there. It actually speaks to us very loudly, very clearly. You just have to be still enough or remove distraction enough to hear it. Like, I always like look back on my life and I was like, oh, I was cut off from spirituality. I was cut off from connection. Absolutely not. That connection is given to all of us equally. It's like the sun, right? Like the sun is always going to shine on people. The sun isn't like, no, you get three rays, you get one ray. No, it's always there. And I am a believer that that connection to fill in the blank of whatever word you want to put. I say God, I say spirit. It's always there. And we cut it off. And that was such a relief for me to know, like, oh, my God, I was always taken care of. And it really is a journey coming back home to yourself. And I think for me. For me, it was all part of my plan. It was all part of the plan for me to go through all the things because, my God, I feel like I would be so much more of a boring person without that story because it gave me so much empathy for others. And I don't know if I would respect and love myself in the way I do today if I hadn't gone through the things I'd gone through. But we were talking about comparison. And this is how my brain works. I'll be like. I love it. The comparison thing. I mean, there is a way where you can use comparison. And as fuel, like whenever because I'm a person where I don't like to use the word jealousy, but I go, oh, wow, look at what they did. I want to do that. That's amazing. Good for them. I don't want to take that from them. But I want to do something like that. I think you can, like, do a reframe. I love a reframe, by the way. Like, I think we all have these, like, ugly emotions like envy, jealousy, anger, rage. And we're told that we're not supposed to express those. But there is a healthier outlet. I think. And I think just, like, use that as fuel to go after what you want. What's for you is not going to miss you. It's going to find you. It might not be on your timeline or how you think it'll look, but nothing can get in the way of that. I wanted to go back to asking you a bit about your childhood as you explained it there. I wanted to ask you, like, do you have a childhood memory that you believe defines who you are today? In my childhood home, we had this. I still remember the backyard so clearly. But we had just one tree in the. In the yard. And I spent so much time alone up in the tree. I buried my dead goldfish under the tree. I buried. I had, like, frogs and hermit crabs. And I have always loved animals. And I would make, like, a little pet cemetery. But I would go in this tree and I would brainstorm and I would play make-believe to the point where I was, like, actually living it. And I think that that perfectly captures who I am because I am quite internal and more introverted. I think that a lot of people might realize and I feel like I get my most insights or downloads or creativity in solitude and I feel like I need more solitude than most people and that used to scare me. me because I think like isolation and solitude there's a very fine line and I can tend to isolate that perfectly defines me me alone in a tree do you have a tree house yeah no I really wanted a tree house as a kid I still want one today no I didn't have a tree house I have a friend who has the coolest tree house I want to live in a tree house maybe one day talk to me about what makes you feel the most still I'm a busybody I don't know about you is it easy for you to be still I'd say fairly fairly that's because but that's because I'm spoiled because I had those three years where stillness was such a priority in my life and so I know what I'm going back to and I know the value of it and so I'm spoiled and I have a cheat code in that we did it and so I can switch pretty yeah by time and by space I love that it's very very very hard for me to be still I mean monkey mind times a million you and I think I've also had to become friends with that as well because the more you fight something the more it's it's you know what I'm saying so but I like that because it's relatable that's that's what people like everyone feels that way they're like yeah I I'm like a doer I feel like I have a lot of that masculine energy where I'm just like I'm gonna go out and do something and and I have like I've I've I've built my life because you have to like I've I've always just like seen the thing seen the next step take action and do it but it's actually a little more challenging for me to be more in that feminine softer quieter energy I really struggle with it I'm not gonna lie like I I'm still like trying to find time every day where I can just be I mean of course I do the things I do meditation sometimes it's on for like two minutes and I'm like we're done for today I've recently gotten into breath work that does wonders for me um but it's really you know I think just like simply being outside helps me when in doubt I always say when in doubt go for a walk I'm a big walker when I need to think when I need an answer on something I go out and walk which isn't necessarily stillness but it's a version of it for me why do you think you lived in your masculine for so long and what helps you reconnect to your feminine I think a lot of it is I like to be in control because when I'm in control I feel safe I don't know when I developed that but I would say probably pretty early on probably wanting to control the environment around me I um I like in my teens was doing stuff to like control my weight and but it all like anything physical is just um an emotional spiritual like need wanting to control something but the thing is like that type of energy can make you it brings success it like it has rewards that it comes from wanting to be in control and like the anxiety that comes if I'm not in control and um that is something I'm definitely working on yeah yeah I mean it makes because I feel like you became famous at a time when young women were being picked apart on the internet and social media like completely and pit against each other comparison competition yeah talk to me about how you tried to navigate that and how that affected your self-confidence self-worth oh man it really was a different time uh this is like 2010 you know instagram's just popping off I think twitter's just beginning but it was just so different like we didn't have the whole body positivity movement yet and of course I'm like 18 19 20 I wasn't quite yet confident in who I was my value I had no value system um I wasn't confident in my gifts it was like okay well I can control the way people perceive me and the way I look so let's try and control that that'll be fun um and then it just kind of became an obsession I think even pre being in front of the camera and I also want to be clear that like the tv show and shows I was a part of there wasn't any pressure for me to from producers or anything to look a specific way it was more a societal point of view I think and it was pressure I was putting on myself not blaming other people for the things I've gone through has given me so much freedom so you know I was choosing the career path I was choosing it was all me the pressure I was putting on myself but you know like the media doesn't make it that easy I mean I can't even imagine now growing up as a young you think it's got harder oh my god like I have I have nieces um they're eight and eleven nine and eleven and I'm just like I can't imagine having all that at my fingertips when I was that age although I do feel not to take such a negative spin on it I do feel like the younger generations are so much more than me and I'm just like I can't imagine having all that at my fingertips when I was so loving and accepting but I feel like millennials like we shifted a lot yeah and then gen z and what's below gen z jenny there's just a lot of acceptance and love and like free spiritedness that I really appreciate but I do feel like I don't know if the pressure's gotten worse but I mean social media is a beast you know and I feel like more than ever we're criticizing women's bodies again like why are we doing this again and clearly it like I it triggers me badly because it is not our business what people do to their bodies what they look like how they their decisions they choose to make regarding their bodies or their face like but it's also clear to me that people in the public eye are a blank page for people to project their own stuff onto so I think it's just kind of like a chaotic vortex but I just like the last year or so of just it feels like the pendulum has swung the other way with how we're talking about women in the media it doesn't help like it doesn't if someone's going through something criticizing them in a reddit chat like how does that help anyone I just get I get very um very defensive especially of women in the public eye of women in general like I just want justice for people and I'm like maybe I need to sit with why does that bring up so much for me maybe I need to sit with why does that bring up so much for me maybe I need to sit with why does that bring up so much for me maybe I felt like I haven't always been protected in certain ways I don't know but it definitely affected how I viewed myself um and I think just like being in front of a camera I have very clear memories of like first season of pretty little liars obviously so excited like couldn't believe to I was a part of this opportunity but also like that was when my uh insecurities really flared up like I remember we had someone who worked on the show he did something with lighting on the show and something was pointed out about my face and I remember I had never noticed that about my face before to this day I won't say what it is but to this day I still hyper focus on that so it's just really interesting how like we can hear something one time and it can affect our brain can like hold on to that and rewire to attach to that narrative or identity I mean it was really confronting being on being in front of the camera while I was still trying to figure out who I was as a woman but like at the same time I was living my dream and so it was like a good payoff for me did the other cast members of pretty little liars know what you were going through and did you know what they were going through Sasha on the show like we've talked a lot about this like she had a lot of um she went through some health issues and she's talked about this publicly I'm not speaking out of line um and she had it pretty hard like the public was not very kind to her did you talk about it then or was it no just now just now I'd love to sit down with other gals and chat about their experience we need a reunion we need a reunion we really do I see them you know you do time to time yeah like randomly I ran into Ashley not too long ago and I saw Shay at the gym and um and I saw Troyan at a concert so it's like we're seeing each other and everyone's doing so well and it's just like it's so wonderful to be at this point in my life where I can look back at that time and only feel the good because there was a time in my life where I felt kind of ashamed of who I was during that time in my life I know that's probably crazy to hear but I was struggling so much internally and was frustrated at the world because they didn't understand my pain yet I wasn't expressing myself I didn't know how to find the words to express what I was going through I wasn't ready to face myself I wasn't ready to ask for help and since then I've kind of spoken to a lot of people involved in the show and they've shown me so much grace as they always did like I don't think people understood I think there was a lot of people involved in the show and they've shown me so much I think there were moments when people were maybe a little upset or angry but it's only because they didn't know and you know just being able to hold myself accountable the best feeling in the world to see your part in something and to apologize to someone and for them to receive that like I've been gifted so many opportunities from the universe doing that because I've had to apologize to a lot of people I hurt a lot of people in my life and it's really blown my mind actually how like the universe has conspired for me to run into people that I like I didn't even have their number anymore and I I knew like I had a list of people I really wanted to apologize to and I would just run into them and I'd get to apologize to them and um just like being able to clean up my side of the street is, I just feel free, you know? It's a good feeling. What was the hardest apology you had to. To myself? Sorry, I don't know why that makes me emotional. I think forgiving myself has been hard. And it's still something where I have to actively choose to have compassion for myself. And to know that I haven't done anything wrong. I'm not made up of all my mistakes or my bad decisions or how I've treated people or how I've treated myself. It's really about how I, for a lot of my life, was sabotaging my life. I was self-sabotaging in such a big way. And it's truly a miracle that I was able to get out of it. There's so many stories. I don't know if I'll ever be able to share, but I truly believe I've been protected by an unseen force that loves me. But yes, forgiving myself is a daily choice. Because I'll be doing okay. I'll be doing okay. I'll be doing okay. Something will trigger a memory or I'll get a text message. Something will bring me back to a memory. And I realize, holy crap, there's so much shame I'm still carrying. But that's a part of it, right? You don't just do the work. I hate that saying, but do the work, do the healing, and your life is just shiny, sparkly, wonderful. No. You are actively unpacking for the rest of your life. It's like unpacking it, but being like, oh, I see why you had to do that. I'm at the to escape. I actually see how drinking was saving my life because it is the only thing that was keeping me going for a while. But I think when I've been able to forgive myself more, I'm only able to forgive the people in my life. The more I love myself, the more I can love my family and friends. I think that's just how it works. And it's so interesting. I've obviously talked about all of this so much, years of therapy, years of unpacking. And it's just interesting that certain things can still hit something in me that's just really true. And I think that's a universal feeling. Being ashamed is just a really bad feeling that is a contagion as well. It's important, though. I think self-forgiveness is the first step in anything. I don't do 12-step anymore, but that is one of the first steps is, well, admitting you're powerless over something, forgiving yourself. Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com forward slash podcast. That's indeed.com forward slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice. The ones that quietly shape our lives. The ones that shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters. That's Mazda's approach to safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected, and more engaged with your drive, so you can stay present behind the wheel. That commitment has earned Mazda recognition as Consumer Reports Safest New Car brand. Mazda, more of what matters to you. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores, from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweeteners and colors, high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision making, and that extends to the practical stuff too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is a great place to start your day. If you're looking for a good farm, it's there to meet you where you are, and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. It's really interesting. We were talking about this a bit earlier, and this idea of how sometimes, and you just put it brilliantly, we have this belief that I'm going to do the work, and then my life's going to be amazing, and it's going to be shiny. Or I do the work, and then it's done, and then I get to live. And the reality is it's cyclical. You feel renewed, and then you're back doing the work, and then you review something, and you're back doing the work. And it's this cycle that keeps perpetuating, and it's only hit me very recently how people are carrying so much shame and guilt internally that it's destroyed. They're destroying their life externally, but they can't see the connection or make the connection. People may feel guilt internally, and that's losing them a job opportunity externally. And we feel so bad for feeling those emotions, but because we don't ask for help, we don't communicate them, we don't know what to do with them, the external life just falls apart. It's so true, and I just wish for everyone, for everyone to realize that we have the capacity to change our lives internally from the inside out. And I wasn't taught that. Most of us are not taught that mind-body-soul connection. And it should actually be a relief for people. Yes, you might need therapy or certain external things to help support you. God knows I needed a lot of that, right? But really, you have everything you need inside of you to shift your life one step at a time. You just have to garner the patience and know that there is a delay effect too. Like my life, I'm just now reaping the benefits of getting sober because sobriety for me is like so little about drugs and alcohol now. It's like I had to remove the things that were keeping me from facing myself. And I'm in like a little over four and a half years sober. And the first year was amazing. It was like easy breezy. I was living on a pink cloud. And then things started coming up because everything I'd been repressing was coming up. But really, me taking a long hard look in the mirror, looking at my life and saying, who do I want to be? What kind of person do I want to be? I owe that to myself. I owe that to myself to be that person and to choose that every day, no matter what it looks like. And I have. And it's the thing I'm most proud of myself for. And when I meet anyone who has also gone through something like this, like I listened to your Hayden interview, and I was so moved because although our circumstances were a little different, it's a hard life path. But we all have that. Even if you're not getting sober, like changing yourself, leaving a toxic relationship, letting go of a pattern that's blocking you, that shit is painful. It is so painful. And no one prepares you for it. And yet we all go through it. And I think because of what I've been through, I just kind of, I feel like I'm a little more forgiving towards people now because who knows? Who knows what's going on with someone behind closed doors? Because I know for me, people did not know for a decade. Well, people close to me, maybe a little bit, but publicly, no. People would look at my life and be like, wow, she's really got it all. And I did, but I wasn't happy. And I didn't feel like I deserved it. It's nice to now be in a place where I can receive things like that lovely intention you gave me. Yeah. It's such a, everything you're saying resonates so strongly because it's so funny how like having the thing doesn't mean you feel you deserve the thing. Like that idea is so hard to understand until you end up in that situation. Yeah. And then you go, oh, wow, it didn't solve it. It didn't fix it. And it doesn't change anything. And you've mentioned sobriety a few times. I wanted to ask you, how did that, how did it even develop? How did you even get into that position where alcohol, I've heard you say before, was the only thing that really. Quite in my mind, yeah. How did you get to that point that that was the only thing? And then on the other end, how did you go, I need help and I'm going to ask for it? Because I think a lot of people, and I actually, we're doing this other series right now for social media, and four out of six of the people I interviewed for it who have done things they regret were all done under the influence. Yeah. And these are not people that are, you know, these are everyday people doing wonderful, normal things with their lives. But they've all done something. And they were just, alcohol was at the center of some pain in their, some massive pain in their life. Yeah. And so I wanted to ask you, how did you end up in that position? And then how did you have the courage to want help and then actually reach out? And how long did that distance take? I look back now and I'm like, oh, it was all so, it's all so crystal clear that all the signs were there. I don't remember ever having like a normal drinking experience. Like, I remember the way alcohol worked. Like, I remember the way alcohol was presented in my hometown or with friends or even in society. Like, millennials just like to drink, you know? Like, it's true. Like, people are drinking less and less now. Especially millennial Brits. I was reminiscing on club days. Like, I have a lot of good memories drinking, but I have equal or more like devastating, dangerous memories. But I think I just always had what I call like an allergy to it. I always wanted more. I was like, why would you just have one drink? I never understood like why someone would drink a glass of wine for the taste of it. Like, I hated the taste of it. I loved the feeling. I could never get enough of the feeling of just being so at ease. And I felt like, I remember just like after a drink, it felt like my costume was coming off and Lucy could finally emerge and I could be free and I could be sexy and I could be funny and I could, because I am quite shy. Like, I'm not the girl that's going to like go let loose and dance. That's never been my personality. Like, I'm very reserved. But drinking, I wasn't. I'd be dancing on a freaking countertop, you know? I would do anything and it felt freeing. And I think I loved that feeling as a teenager. I liked being the life of the party. There was a very distinct shift for me one day. I was in a relationship with someone who also struggled. And that's when like the drinking the day after kind of started. And I was like, oh, wow, this really eases my hangover, my anxieties. And so then it would be more of like a bender type situation. I was able to not drink during work, which meant when my time off would just be chaos. But it was still like in my early 20s, it was very fun. I wasn't, I didn't want to admit I had a problem, even though I was told by boyfriends. My family, my sweet mom was always like, I'm really worried about you. I would say there was a dark turn around like 23, where I was drinking to the point where I would black out. You know, if someone's never blacked out before I witnessed someone blacking out, it's very bizarre because I've been told I look normal, but my eyes just go like dark, but I'm acting normally. Like I didn't pass out or anything. So people wouldn't know I was. And downhill quick, but, you know, I'd wake up and not remember anything. And that's obviously as terrifying as it sounds. And it got to a point where I was just drinking dangerous amounts, waking up in dangerous situations. And I remember I was in a hotel in Nashville. I've never told this story before. I don't think. And I was also doing music at the time. I was like season two of Pretty Little Liars. We were on hiatus. And I was recording my album, promoting my album. Which music has always been so important to me. And I woke up out of a blackout in a hotel room. And later, it was like early in the morning. And later that day, I was going to sing at the Grand Ole Opry, which is a huge honor. You have to be, I don't know if you've been to the Opry in Nashville, but it's like every country western sensation has sang there. And like, you have to be asked there by like the Grand Ole Opry committee. And I went to rehab instead. That morning, I said, I called my manager. And I said, I'm really scared. I don't want to stop drinking, but I know I have to start drinking. This is 23. And she was like, okay. My manager flew out, took me to rehab. All was kept under wraps. I had to cancel my tour because of drinking. And which is why I've never really approached music again. Which also makes me emotional because I love music. And I loved that time in my life. But because the music coincided with my issues. It's taken me a long time to even like, look at photos of that time or listen to music from that time. And so I'm just now kind of okay. Even thinking about the idea of singing again. I will say one thing about me is I've always asked for help. I've always had the desire when I knew it got bad. Like I've always wanted to change. There was always like a guiding light. There was always something where I knew. If I followed that feeling of getting help, I was going to be okay. It doesn't mean I've always like listened to it. I mean, relapse was such a big part of my journey. I'm talking 12 years, 13 years of struggling. Because people are like, how did you drink like that and have the career you had? And I was like, well, I had like long periods of sobriety, months long. Went to rehab, did a lot of things. Nothing really stuck. I think probably because there were still lessons to learn. I wasn't ready. Ultimately, like I knew when I got sober, I was going to have to do some unpacking. And how I've mentioned a few times, like really taking a look at myself. And I knew that was going to be so painful. And I knew it was going to take time. And I knew my life was just going to look so different. And then, you know, flash forward to 32. How old am I? I'm trying to do math. So I got sober at 32. Yeah, it was January 2nd, 2022. So however old I was, I, you know, hit another just really low moment. And this time I didn't necessarily ask for help. But I knew and I've said this so many times publicly, but like I knew that was my last, my last chance. I was like, I think it's time to retire the drinking. I think it's finally time and I'm ready. And I just never looked back. Even when it's been hard. I committed to the life I want to live. I committed to not becoming the woman I wanted to be. I think I've always been that woman. I think allowing myself to be her, reclaiming my power. I think I've always been a little afraid of being powerful. I think I've always tried to play small and keep quiet and repress and just like be a good girl. And I was like, I'm tired of that identity. I don't want to be that anymore. That served me for a long time. But I'm, I can be, I can set boundaries now. And I think I do inherently have like a kindness and sensitivity, but like I'm okay letting people down. I think a lot of the drinking was also like trying to take care of other people's feelings. I think like I would drink because I was so exhausted by like not being myself. And so in a way drinking let me be myself. It's weird as that sounds like it did allow me to be this like edgier person. And I now I've just had to like integrate that edgier version into everyday life. Like I can still, you're not gonna like, I'm sure you've done shadow work. Like you don't just say, okay, bye shadow self. See, it's been fun. Like that's not how it works. That person is me. That is a part of me. It's just finding ways to release the hounds in a way that's not so detrimental to my life and my mental health and emotional health. It's almost how can you stop numbing that side and avoiding it and ignoring it and finding ways to do that. But like you said, the reason we do that, and I'm saying this compassionately and empathetically for anyone who's doing it is because we're so scared to unpack what lies beneath. And so it's so natural to find ways of avoiding it and alcohol or drugs or whatever it may be. And people find their own version of it can fully do that. And then, like you said, you finally got to this point. If someone's struggling with becoming sober right now, what would you encourage them to do? I would say good for you for realizing and having that awareness is everything. There are so many people that cannot admit that it's a problem. And the second that you are saying, I want to be sober, I'm trying to be sober, like, hell yeah, you're already on the path. And that's amazing. I'm a very, um, I need to logically make things make sense. I'm a Gemini, so it's very Mercury, like I need to understand. So for me, a lot of my healing has come from understanding my patterns, my childhood, my relationship patterns, and that's helped me have grace for myself. So I think things like therapy, just talking, finding a community can be helpful. be very helpful I also like there is no right way I think a lot of people might tell you there's only one way no I've tried every way and I've found my way I think I think also a lot of I know many sober people who never relapsed got sober the first time and have been sober 20 years myself I relapsed many many many many times so your journey is going to look different if you fall down that is so much more wisdom so much more growth just keep going like just keep going choose yourself find your people now you're gonna have to hold yourself accountable too this is not always going to be easy work but it is the most rewarding thing you can do and I think that applies to more than just drugs and alcohol to anything like choose yourself choose yourself and not everyone's going to understand it do it anyway there's so I feel so misunderstood by people all the time but I know that I'm doing what's best for me and when you live authentically everything else will fall into place I wonder you mentioned you were dating at that time what was it like dating when it was chaotic you know I think when I was living from a place of not really respecting myself like of course I attracted partners who were going to match that not that they ever disrespected me but there has been a pattern of in the past choosing partners who were struggling or emotionally unavailable or someone I needed to like earn their love I had many beautiful people come into my life and they came into my life for a reason like I can see why I dated certain people and what that gave me like I also see life through like oh this is happening for me not to me I truly believe everything can be a lesson and sometimes the lesson is don't ever date someone like that again you know but I would say my dating life was I was always with someone in my 20s I was so afraid to be alone and I found a lot of self-worth from who I was dating or the validation I was getting or how many people wanted to date me and it's a false sense of security and it would always leave me feeling empty no regrets but but um yeah I think I was also numbing out in that way as well yeah maybe choosing people that weren't and didn't have my best interest at heart um but the good news is like when you shift internally oh you're gonna attract so like it's so crazy that the type of experiences and people and things into my life now it's just you can't even compare it's incredible when you get to experience both sides and I'm sure even hearing you say it people are listening and watching like seeing just the energy shift and even how you said that and how you yeah how your face lit up and you know and it's wonderful to observe in someone where you go wow I can't imagine how dark that darkest day was but it's so important for people to see people on the other side not that there isn't more to unpack not that there isn't more work to do not that there isn't yeah more things to visit and revisit but there is a movement in the cycle yeah and just being patient with that you deserve that I deserved that everyone deserves that everyone deserves to live a life that they're really proud of and it's possible and it is possible and it doesn't mean like you don't make mistakes like I every day I'm like damn I should have maybe handled that a little differently or okay like because I can have a bit of a temper and I can be a little reactive but I can laugh about things maybe a little bit more and what's angry Lucy like um no you know what I I feel like I it really only happens to the people closest to me and it's not like I think it's just I can um be a little reactive and defensive sometimes but I know that I'm only being reactive and defensive because it's hitting a nerve and it's something I need to take a look at and I think a lot of my growth has come from being alone I think but now I'm in a place where I I can grow in partnership I can grow in friendship and in family because I can meet people at a more grounded state of mind and I think you know they always say like you're not you can't grow until you're whole it's like well are we ever really whole I think we're actually all maybe born whole I think we're already whole and I think um it is definitely possible to grow within partnership I think that's like a narrative where like you need to wait until and I'm like I actually disagree I think that that is maybe not necessarily true but once again everyone's different I personally needed a lot of time alone um and now the last year or so I've been ready this episode is brought to you by Walden University balancing work life and big goals isn't easy that's why Walden University helps working professionals get the w with tempo learning so you can earn your degree at your own pace while gaining practical skills through real life scenarios you'll also learn from faculty with real world experience and have support start to finish Walden University set a course for change ready to start visit waldenu.edu today certified to operate by chev tempo learning available in select programs the way I think about it is you can grow together or you can grow apart based on whether you're willing to grow and communicate where you're at and I find that people who don't do the work before can bring in a lot into a relationship and push the other person away because they're not looking inward and then the other person doesn't know what's going on it's true you have to like find someone who's willing to grow with you I've had to come to realize like I'm not going to meet this perfect person who has my journal list of it's like they might have some of them but you have to decide and you know this because you've been married a while right like you find someone who's you want to deal with and that you're going to help them carry and to know that like oh this might be challenging at times and I think that's beautiful I think that's what love is is like seeing people for who they are and really just accepting them for who and how they are I think about a relationship as two people driving to their friend's house or a party at night but they're driving from different places and one person's going to be there on time and they're calling up and saying hey I'm going to be there on time and the other person's saying I'm going to be late actually I'm just finishing work I haven't wrapped up yet and the other person's like well do you want me to wait outside for you do you want me to go inside and mingle and hang and they're like well will you please wait outside for me okay well how long are you going to be I'm going to be 20 minutes late okay I'll wait I think I could wait 20 minutes okay fine I'll wait 20 minutes for you yeah and that's that communication part because you're not moving at the same pace you're not growing at the same speed you're both on different timelines but you know why and what you're waiting for it's also like communication styles because everyone has a different communication style and I think for me where I've really am learning to surrender and let go is like learning that I can't it's not my job to control or change anyone else their point of view their work I can't make someone make a decision I can't save them I can't make them do the work that's all on them but I can choose who I want to be with I can choose who I want to spend my time with and I think there is a relief in that I'm not here to control people I'm not here to change anyone I'm here to navigate my own life and navigate my own reactions to whatever choices people are making towards me so and then when you're telling that story I'm like what kind of cars are you guys driving over too yeah it's true and that matters that does matter yeah like is your car all souped up and like ready is it comfortable is it did you stop to get in and out like I need to know all the details does it have information right yeah is it an uber is it Waymo is it a Waymo that's hilarious have you seen those Waymo vans they're scary are you sponsored by Waymo no are you gonna cut this part out you might but no well if they sponsor us I'll use them I am so scared of sitting in a car I'm too much of a control freak no I'm literally I can't sit in a car without a driver they're gonna have like Waymo planes probably too that's scary imagine you go to the cockpit and there's like no one there I'm quickly getting off the plane yeah even though supposedly it's safer than us honestly yeah except when I get in a Waymo I get really mad I know I'm just like come on I know you know the little robot carts oh they're so cute I am too sensitive towards them like I was eating we were out eating on the side of the street and like over in Los Feliz and there was one coming down but there was a palm that had fallen and so it kept going and I was like someone help him I know in the right direction they've done a great job of making them adorable I know I was like I feel like there's a little even though I know there's not consciousness in it I like it feels like there's a little soul in there I think you're gonna say there's a little person trapped inside there's a child there's a small child yeah no I feel like there's a little bit of like life in them it's so funny Lucy this is perfect time we have we have a fun rapid fire game for you that has been designed just for you are there rules to this game or is it just kind of no this is to celebrate where you're at today okay and you just have to tell me the first thing that comes to your mind so what's the one thing that mattered to you in your 20s that doesn't matter now I would say validation from others really mattered to me in my 20s a lot I've learned to let that go not fully but A lot more as the woman I am today. What's a daily habit that's genuinely changed your life? Morning time, like an hour of slow, intentional journaling or walking with my dogs, just really setting the tone for my day. I don't miss it, whether I'm here across the ocean, like on a plane, like I always make sure I have that time. What's a relationship red flag that you used to allow for that would be a deal breaker today? Lack of communication or ignoring my texts. You used to allow for that? Oh, I used to allow for it. And it would make me think I just needed to like try harder. But now I'm like, no, communication is everything to me. Consistent communication. What's the best compliment someone could give you right now? That they feel safe around me. I always love when people are like, I feel like I can share things with you. I think that that always makes me feel good. I feel like you have that energy a lot. I feel like sometimes people will, strangers will just like tell me things and I love it. Sometimes I'm like, oh, it's a little bizarre. But then I think, oh, they just need someone to talk to. And like, I'm always happy to be that person for anyone. Unless you're late for a flight. Unless I'm late for a flight. Exactly. I want to say though, like, and I like doing this with people that I have met years back when, you know, where we talked about when we met, like six years ago when I came to your home, you were absolutely wonderful. You were very kind. Thank you. You were very gracious. We were both doing something work-based, but I didn't, I didn't feel awkward being in your home as we had like lights and cameras and all this stuff. And I think that, that says a lot, you know, it's like, we didn't know each other then. We, we'd both been brought in to do this thing. And I just, yeah, I like to remind people also that. What's crazy just about me in general is like externally, I don't think people would ever have realized how hard I was on myself or like what I was experiencing. But it's always nice to get the reminder that I've always been me. I think the thing has always been there. And I think. That's true for most people. It's, it's just goes back to the forgiving myself thing of like, okay, let it go. You've always been okay. And last thing, if we did get a Pretty Little Lies reunion, what would you want to talk about? What would be on the agenda? You know what I know people would want to talk about. So I don't know if you've ever seen the show. So my character was, um, she dated her teacher and, uh, that's been a little controversial, especially lately because so much has changed just with like the media we consume, the TV shows we watch. The roles, the way they write certain roles. But like this came out in 2010. So like, yeah, of course she would date her teacher. That's what happened in the book. So it should happen in the show. So I'm sure if we had a reunion, people would want to address that. Um, because it's been like Hollywood Reporter did a piece on Pretty Little Liars. And I noticed now 16 years later, people have much more of an issue with that relationship than they did then. Cause when we were kids on this show. Kids, we were teenagers. Um, people loved that relationship because it was like forbidden, forbidden romance. But it's just interesting how much we've evolved as humans that we can now say, oh, maybe that wasn't necessarily the best way to take that character. You know, I, I feel like that would be the first thing we'd have to address on the show. Although I feel like they'd still be married. They ended up getting married. Um, oh, I can't say that out loud. I feel like there was like maybe a rumor of something possibly happening. We'll see. We'll see. Okay. I would love to. I feel like I'm at a point now where I'd absolutely like be so down. I think everyone else would be as well. Yeah. And the fact that you've all been bumping into each other. I know it's like having some of these conversations. It's nice. I love that. I wanted to go back to something you said at the start about this idea of being 37, not being in the place you imagined, but being in a wonderful place, but not doing some of those timeline things of like, oh, I thought I'd be maybe in a long-term relationship or with kids or married or what, whatever those versions are of society. Like is motherhood, something you still see for yourself? It is. I have gone through so many iterations of, of that. And my idea of that, I, for much of my life did not want kids, but I, it was only because I didn't think I would ever be okay enough to have kids. Then. My sister had kids and I was just like, wow, and she's such a good mom, but my sister is such a good mother. And, um, many of my friends have kids and, um, because maybe I'm later thirties. It's like harder for me to admit that I do want that publicly only because people always have an opinion, especially if you were like, oh, you know, like, have you like, oh, everyone wants to ask if I frozen my eggs. That's always like the first thing. Um, and I have, and I think that that is like a choice I have. Just for insurance. Cause I don't, who knows? Like I might want to have kids in my forties. Like I think everything we've as humans, medicine, everything has evolved so much that it would perfectly be okay for me to have a child way later in life. I don't, I just don't know yet. Like I, I'm still so career focused. I have so many goals I want to achieve. And I think I can absolutely achieve those with, with children without children. I don't know. I. Life continues to surprise me. Life continues to throw curve balls. I, my life can change on a weekly basis. I'm sure you understand that. Like I could get a call today and be like, you're going away for six months, but I have come to realize that I have a mothering, nurturing quality about me that, um, I would love to explore when the time is right. I, uh, I see versions of my life where I do have kids. I see versions of my life where I don't. Yeah. I truly like, I don't know where life is taking me, but the good news is I don't have to worry about it because I'm always going to land where I'm supposed to be. That feels like the only mindset that allows us to survive life as well. And as you live in this gap between expectation and reality. Yeah. And you might miss like. Something else. Something else. I mean, I do always believe you're going to get to where you're supposed to go, but you might detour a little bit. So I'm just trying to go with the flow. I always try to remind people that you'll get to where you want in life, just not in the way you imagine it. Exactly. And it's the. The imagination part that trips us up because we're imagining this path and it should look like this, but then this beautiful path that's opening up over here, you just miss it because you're too lost in your imagination. Yeah. And I feel like with manifestation and this beautiful movement that's happening where people are like, oh, wow, we're so powerful and I can create the life I want for me, at least it's a fine line because I, sometimes I live too much in the future and I'm too specific and it's like, well, maybe. That's not the path that I'm supposed to be on. So I think it's like, it's important to dream, to have goals, to have wants, you know, but I think also, like you said, I think the more present you are with your feet on the ground, you can see all the options and go, ding, that's the one I'm going to run towards. And you just have to like, can't be as distracted, I guess. I wanted to ask you about something. I have a lot of friends and also our audience who are in the process of freezing the eggs or want to. How hard is the process? And what do you have to go through? Because I feel like as a man, I know very little. I just hear it's tough, hard, difficult. And then I have friends who are saying they want to do it or about to do it or have done it as well. Yeah. It's becoming more of a conversation today that everyone, I hope, is trying to have. And the reason I'm raising it is because I really hope this helps normalize it for everyone out there who's thinking about it and worried about it and helps them have the conversation. What should people expect? Like, what does it look like? I haven't spoken about this. And I did it about exactly a year ago, actually. And at the time, I was not in a relationship. I did it all by myself, like a big girl. And I, but I really thought about it for a couple of years. I didn't talk to many people about it only because I didn't, I only knew a few people who had gone through their experience. And, you know, everyone has their own experience. I'd heard good, great experiences. I'd heard really bad ones. And I was like, you know what? I'm, I'm just, I'm just. I'm just going to do the thing, go to my doctor, take the shots and just be prepared for anything. I will say it was the most empowering thing in the world for me, especially doing it alone. It made me realize, like, not that I want to have kids alone, but I could if I wanted. And it's beautiful to have options. And I mean, the whole physical part of it was like as expected, like you are putting your body through a lot. But just go. I was very easy on myself. I had like plenty of time off. I knew myself, though, and I knew because my hormones were going to shift so much as well. I was like, I feel like I'm about to go on an emotional roller coaster. It did bring up a lot for me, but it was so beautiful. It was like things that I feel like my soul was wanting to confront, just like limiting beliefs I had about myself, my life, my body. And it was really liberating. I'm not going to lie. Like, I know people talk about the intensity of it. And don't get me wrong. It is. Like, go in prepared, have support, have people to talk to because it can be emotional. But I felt I was really like along with sobriety. That was one of the decisions I was most proud of. But, yeah, it did bring up a lot for me of I'm getting older. Why am I not married? Why don't I have kids? Am I lovable? Like all these like all these things that like weren't. Really? but had been kind of lingering in the background and needed to be let go. go of because like all of that is just not true it's not my true nature it's not how I actually feel about myself so yeah if you're thinking about doing it like definitely like go in prepared but it's like the most empowering thing you can do I feel like so yeah and we'll see we'll see what comes of it yeah I mean it's it's incredible that you were able to go do it by yourself like when you were single yeah it was pretty wild I because you can also get the choice to go into the clinic every day and they give you the shots no I'm so stubborn I was like no I'm gonna watch YouTube videos on how to do it myself so I did it all myself I mean I went in and checked every day and all that but yeah I kind of felt like a badass like I got my things it was it was a wild experience but what's crazy is a month after that I met the person I'm with now oh no way so it was almost like it opened up something in me to allow a good person to come into my life um the timing was weird it was maybe it was like two weeks after it was weird but beautiful tell me about that tell me how did you two meet I've always like had this dream of running into someone on the street you know whatever but then I did the whole dating online dating thing for a while and let's talk about online let's do it yeah okay I was really hesitant to do it for a long time I did not meet my boyfriend through online dating but I went on many dates he's gonna love hearing this but like I I went on many dates through online dating and I had to really come to terms with like it's just you can evolve with the times or you can not evolve yeah so I was like okay well realistically like I travel a lot I run in the same friend circles I might meet someone through work but odds are I'll probably meet someone online and I did I met some great people and I think you can meet good people I think a lot of people want to shame the online dating world but I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know but like your person's gonna find you like I believe in soulmates I believe if you have a soul contract with someone like they'll find you at the grocery store or they'll find you online like they will the universe will find a way for you guys to meet I met my boyfriend through it was a blind date actually no one set us up which is never um I've never said yes to it to anything like that I feel I don't know dating in general just makes me like so nervous but we met and it was like it was like the first time in my life where it's been a very slow burn I feel like at different times in my life the different versions of myself like I was like very extreme about dating if they weren't in love with me and after the first date like why don't you you know it's just so extreme and the person I'm with is just very he's a Virgo he's very stable he's very consistent he's very grounded he's um it's a good balance for like my intense emotions like it really just balances me out it's been wonderful he's he's a wonderful human I feel very grateful to be learning with him alongside him everything it brings up for me like the challenges the the good times all of it it's just I would say it's the first real healthy partnership I've ever been in so talk about late bloomer like I met him when I was 36 and I just think that's not to take away from any other person I've spent time with I think I've learned from everyone but it feels it feels good to be in something that allows me to feel safe and like I can be myself what do you feel is the difference between an unhealthy relationship and a healthy relationship it's all about consistency communication being transparent with each other allowing space for someone to be themselves like not trying to change someone I think that is really tricky territory when you're in something and you're you want someone to behave or be a version of themselves that they're not I've tended to like find more codependent relationships as well where I would kind of lose my identity within the relationship um and put their feelings above my own and it's it's so funny being in something now where I'm me like I can still it was like oh I can be Lucy and also be in love with someone and be in a healthy partnership um because I always thought love was self-sacrificing I thought it was like going to the ends of the earth and oh they they don't love me well maybe I should try harder be more if they didn't love me I felt less than and that's like love addiction in a way and I've had you know many years of therapy of trying to discover where those patterns came from it's so interesting just like finding you have to go through trial and error I think a lot of my life has been trial and error especially with with dating and I think that comes with its own set of kind of shame I think maybe a lot of people can relate to being of a certain age and still seeking or searching um you know I'm in a partnership now but like a lot of my 30s I felt kind of ashamed of being alone and being single and the people being like well why aren't you dating someone you're so great and it's like in my head I'm thinking but what if I'm choosing to be alone I think a part of me did believe that am I great enough but I think there was also a time in my life where I was like I think it's perfectly okay to take as much time as you need until you're ready or to have standards like it's tricky finding a good match and like I wasn't willing to lower my standards for a long time I think I also had to open up and be allow myself to experience good love but also knowing that like what I was doing was not going to be the same as what I was doing is very unique and I truly was willing to wait as long as possible like I wasn't just gonna allow anyone into the beautiful life I've created for myself there's a lot of people in LA I feel like that are of my age and are single and no one really talks about like the dark underbelly of that and like what that probably brings up for people just a late bloomer in a lot of ways but I wouldn't have had it any other way I love that you found the uh the vocabulary and language for it that allows you to own it yeah because I think that's what we're all looking for is a word of who we are because the world has asked us to define ourselves by husband wife mother mother daughter sibling and then when you don't get to play some of those roles at a certain age you think your life's incomplete not realizing that it was never about the role it was about the relationship because you could have the role and be in the wrong way and you could have the role and be in the wrong way relationship or it's what you want to feel within one of those roles because I often think about that I'm like okay who am I if I'm not an actor that's it's very hard for me to be like who am I without being an actress or a known public person um I struggle with that sometimes where I'm like uh what would be left of me kind of but when you strip all those identities like what actually are we you know it's like what would you say I would say I'm like source energy like that's the like light I think it's a frequency I don't know if it's like a thing or a title I believe we all have a unique frequency I don't believe that goes away when we're alive or when we die I think it's constant but I think giving ourselves these labels helps us make sense of the world I think that's all we're ever trying to do is make sense of why we're here I feel like I love these conversations I love being around people who are also asking those questions like okay who am I why am I here yeah I mean you've said before that you see miracles often in your life is there one particularly that holds your attention I mean honestly I mean it's repetitive to the sobriety stuff but like that to me is a miracle not only that I am still heart beating you know two feet on the ground alive but that I can see why everything had to be that way like I look at everything from the lens of whoa whether it's a child or flowers like I'm constantly amazed by animals um synchronicities in my life where I'm like oh that could only be orchestrated by something grander than me I mean I definitely believe in like spirit guides angels and this might be too woo woo for certain people but like there's a couple of books I read one's called signs and it's basically like creating a language yeah we've had her on the show yes oh my god you have twice yeah love her just like creating a language with I believe also your higher self but your team of light and the first time you experience that actually happening you like gaslight yourself into thinking it's not real you're like okay well let me see it again and then and it happens and it's not it's like it's not necessarily that there's more of that thing that number that red car you know that red car kind of experiment it's that you're a you have now have awareness towards it so I use signs like I have numbers like animal signs where when I see that I know that the decision is a yes follow that and that is never leads me astray if I don't see it I don't make the decision and uh it really is as simple as that but I see it like unfold in real time and sometimes I just like a game with the universe where I'm like show me how good it can get show me something so magical today that it'll blow my mind mind and I'll run into someone that I was thinking about or I'll know something about my mom that's going to happen. Just like I think you can get so aligned that you are receiving information and the trick is listening to it because I think we're always being given those intuitive hits. We just don't always listen to them. So yeah I mean life is a freaking miracle like what in the world like I was in Mexico for my birthday on a little vacation and right now Jupiter and Venus are like perfectly aligned. That to me blows my mind. I'm like what do you mean there's a solar system? Like I just I get very excited about life. What does it mean when they're aligned? So they're in the same sign right now. So Venus and Cancer in Jupiter or they're in Cancer right now. Jupiter's actually moving into Leo but Cancer is like Venus is the planet of how we show love, receive love. My Venus is actually in Cancer and Jupiter is all about abundance, luck. And I would assume when they're aligned, I need to know more about this, when they're in the same sign of Cancer like there's love and abundance with love and partnerships. I don't know. It just looked beautiful. My whole point is like I just am amazed by people, places, things. But it's taken me a while to get there. I think I used to be a little jaded by life maybe but now I'm like childlike wonder a lot of the time. Lucy, thank you for showing up so abundantly and full of love today as well. And as your truest self and a self that you've become so accepting of and could see how much you were processing so many emotions and feelings that either were once troubling you or were once tripping you up or even now still create so many emotions within all of us. Thank you for being so authentic and real. I could just see it through your face like it's impossible to avoid. And it's so gracious of you to be able to do that in this space. So really grateful. Thank you. Thanks. Well, you allow the space for it. So thank you for asking great questions and letting me be myself. It's always good to show up and just talk about the things that feel authentic to me. So very grateful. We end every episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Oh my God, this is my nightmare. So Lucy Hale, these are your final five. Question number one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? I would say the best piece of advice is, it's kind of paraphrasing, but the answer is always within you. And whatever that interpretation is for you, you have all the answers you will ever need. I actually fully agree with that. I think any good wisdom or advice is encouraging you to listen to that. And that's what it's taking you back to. And also the best advice is to not listen to advice. Yeah. Exactly. And that's what I'm saying, that any good advice will only- Lead you back to yourself. Lead you back to yourself. Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Received a lot of bad advice. I think probably something along the lines of, especially with an acting, give them what they need. And this could be applied to anything. Give people what they need and sort of abandon yourself. And I just obviously don't agree with that. Never change yourself for anyone. Question number three, I want you to repeat after me and complete the sentence. It's about overthinking. I think I think too much about- I think I think about what other people are thinking about too much. And honestly, what other people think about me or something is none of my business. I think that's the truest thing. I think we all spend too much time thinking about what other people are thinking. And they're not thinking that. And we have no idea what they're thinking. And it doesn't matter. Yeah. And you don't know. And you don't know. And we live our life based off of narratives we've made up in our head about someone that may or may not be true. Wild. Wild. Question number four, define a good friend. Someone who is not a yes person. Someone who is going to tell you the truth, even if it risks the friendship. I have so many people in my life who have seen me through so many phases of who I am. And a very select few who have said, this is not okay. You need help. I love you. I'm here. And a friend who will set boundaries. Like I respect a friend who set boundaries. And also, like, I like, um, friendships where there's no expectation. You can just be yourself. You might not see each other for six months. You don't have to respond to every text message. Like, easygoing. Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Okay. I've thought about this so much. Oh, I love it. Good. Okay. My bracelet's falling. I'm so excited. I have a few. I have a few. Please, go for all of them. I just, I think. You can give us a few. The main one, because I was really reflecting, is that for an hour a day, each person has to, without distraction, love themself. Like, focus on what they love about themself. And like, really just nurture who you are. I chose that because, can you imagine if we all operated from like that frequency of loving ourself? There wouldn't be that many problems. I mean, maybe. Maybe it would cause more problems. I don't know. But, but I think just none of us spend enough time like honoring who we are. Okay. Another one I have is before bed each night, everyone has to hold themselves accountable for the things they've done good and things they want to do differently, but not in a shaming way. And, and more just like clean up your side of the street. And then the third one is whenever you're in an argument with someone, you have to swap shoes with them and see it from their perspective. And I think that's their perspective. Oh, that's good. And I'm like, shit, because you know, it would be so different. Yeah. You know, I could be better about that for sure of like, oh, wait, I need to pause a bit. Lucille, thank you so much. I'm so grateful to you. This was great. This was so much fun. Congrats on your big deal. Oh, thank you. You deserve it. Jay Shetty is the best y'all. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's new series, East of Eden, a bold reimagining of John masterpiece following generations of the Trask family through love, betrayal, and the choices that shape humanity. Starring Mike Feist and Christopher Abbott as the Trask brothers and Florence Pugh as Kathy Ames, the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants no matter the cost. Watch East of Eden, October 1st, only on Netflix. Mr. President, my company formed the explosion on our rig on October 2nd, causing massive water displacement during a tsunami. They all keep the blame on me. Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess and Digger's gonna dig us out. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant. What would happen if I stopped doing it? You starve, you freeze to death, that's what. With great power comes great deniability. I'm not the first nanny. Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17, not admitted without parent. Fall never arrives all at once. Verse the air. Then the light. And slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress. A hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross.