Loyle Carner

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Hello, I'm Clara Ampho and welcome back to this city, the podcast where we talk to famed inhabitants of wonderful London. Each episode will delve into the past favourite places, the current favourite places, the dance spots, the food spots, the night bus stories, stories of school where we fell in love from some of our favourite famous faces, whether they were born here or adopted our capital. Dear listener, guess what? I am, did, did, did, did, delighted, I know it's my favourite word because it's true, I stays delighted about all of my guests and I'm so happy to welcome the wonderful loyal carnaut to the show. Law isn't only just an incredible artist, he's also an amazing presenter, checking out the six music sometimes and he's also a fab dad. Last time I saw this guy was the night of the Mercury music prize but usually when I do see him it's in my local area because we're neighbours and when I see him he's usually with his wonderful partner and gorgeous son who I'm letting you know now makes a consistent cameo appearance throughout our conversation so big up little law carna, big up big law carna, this is his episode of this city. Dear listener, it is my absolute joy to welcome to the podcast, The One and Only Law carna, for me one of the most important voices in MC culture just in British artistry, really honestly, well and truly he's somebody that keeps me still excited and happy about the state of rap in the UK and it also just happens to be my neighbour, loyal, how you living? Well a lovely intro, yeah I'm good man, I'm good thanks for having me on this, it's a pleasure truly, you know I'm a big fan of you too so thank you. Well I'm a big fan, you know this, look I and he spoke facts in my introduction because it's true, you do keep me excited about about rap in the UK but also you're my neighbour because most times when I see you and it's not in a studio, it's when I'm just doing my weekly shop and you're walking around with your misses and your kids and it's all very wholesome in it. You see me with the buggy man, always. Look when you were when you're out and about like sort of like doing your doing your dad life, do you get clocks quite a bit or are you quite, no not really, I think the radar. I think really the the the pram like the buggy is a a force field, a little bit that like people don't really want to bug me for sure when I when I've got the buggy which is nice people are respectful to me, I know it's not like that for everyone but also yeah I am just under the radar, I don't know I don't know if it's just because I do such mundane stuff that like people look at me and go there's no way that could be my man, the black in Tesco's all like, what's my name and if they do you know because it does happen on the day today but like it's really it's usually like, especially with this new album, it's been nice because people are really going, yeah thank you, you know this helped me do this or you know here's a photo of me and my dad, we just reconnected or whatever so it's I'm proud that it's already out doing the thing it was meant to do you know. Right on well let's take it back to the reason, let's take it out of our out of our our shared neighbourhood and to where you brought up. So Lambeth, 1994 towards the year. Yes. Now I heard of Ruma that you actually told me yourself I don't care I'm gonna I'm gonna just put it off like I just knew it. The you were born on the same day as Heidey one. Is it true that you and Heidey one are essentially brothers from different mothers? Yeah we are precisely with twins and they're on national poetry day as well which means that you know they have to be they have to be there's a shout out to Heidey man one. I don't I just I love them with that now I feel like that it means that you two has faced to be like in each other's all bit I think that's I think I'm going to be homies we're not homies yet like by some point I'll buy my time I know he's friends with Drake and stuff so I mean I know he's on a high plane right now but at some point there's a pecking order yeah it's gonna happen I'm gonna get I'm once I'm once I'm in Paris Drizzy I mean I'm in I mean personally I rate you more but yeah yeah I said it but anyway and so so yeah South London's where you're born is that where your parents are brought up as well or did your parents like come from London or you know yeah my my my my father my biological father he he was born yeah he was born in London my grandmother had just come over from Guyana and so my my father was born here but he grew up in a kid's home yeah in South like a bit further out like kind of past probably way and and that was heavy like you know I've only recently been talking to my dad but learning a lot about that was pretty pretty heavy but also quite beautiful you know to see where he's where he's made it to now you know after such a heavy upbringing and my mum in in Straitham he actually grew up in in Straitham and then we moved to West Nourwood then we moved to Croydon then I made it out finally I still I still go back a lot it's it's weird we're talking about it a lot now I go now I've got a son and you know my girlfriend is like thinking about building an actual family and growing up a little bit South is really the place I'd like to do that you know because it's so wide and open so spacious yeah I mean because there's so much I want to get into in this conversation because you know you've had a really open and honest dialogue with your fans and you know when you when you come into when we've had chats in the past I guess about you know who you are as a man and how father has changed that and particularly like how growing up in South like impacted you know we're like yeah like who you are I mean what you mentioned about your dad was really interesting obviously oh talk about what you want to talk about yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but so he he came from Guyana when he was a kid my grandmother your grandmother came over how where is this where you where you as a child not not really a tool you know I wasn't you know I wasn't very close to my with my pops understandably you know from you know from the album I guess I said a lot of it on there but we're in regards to our relationship but yeah like from us connecting I began to like learn about his life which was something I just had never I'd never been privy to before which was quite beautiful you know that kind of kind of frustrating in in a way when I was younger that I didn't get it but also kind of beautiful to be old enough to actually receive it and understand it so yeah when I was younger didn't know much about I thought actually thought I was from Ghana because the way my dad my dad said this weird kind of cop like he's been going on and so he says got like Guyana like Guyana so I'm not there for a long time do know what I'm sure as a guy name I'm sure I'm sure we would happily claim you if you ever want it to you know I still have a I still have a source I mean I was heartbroken in the world cup still now I'm still the because it's like for a lot of my childhood I was like yeah I'm I'm I'm I'm African jumping off from Ghana so it doesn't just disappear I mean well I mean they do call that I did hear the Freud and sometimes does get called that little a cry there are a lot of Ghana there are a lot of Cunnings true true true like like my auntie my actually shout out to my my auntie Bella and Chris who look like long time query residents like there's loads of Cunnings around there loads and loads and what kind of a kid where you going what kind of a kid where you grow enough himself because you must have obviously had a different upbringing than your dad's yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I was lucky I was with with with my mom's I think my mom my mom kind of like you know I grew up and was struggling at school had my mom was a teacher a special educational need so she was quite worried about me like in the area we were and you know the guys the like the friends I had and whatever I wasn't obviously because I was young but she kind of was concerned that I was gonna end up in a lot of trouble and so she started I guess like put put a big emphasis on on education for me you know like she felt like if I could get into a better school you know I've got into I got into a private school on a scholarship which was crazy which is a whole different experience and one I felt like very much outside but I was able to kind of you know Trojan horse my way in there and get get a good education you know and and use that education for good you know I mean not just to work in a bank or some shit so yeah it was cool I can't ask you a question because I've always been I've always been so fascinated about this and I remember I got into a conversation with one of my siblings about this when it comes to like to private schools right yeah yeah like I've always been a bit like if I ever had a kid yeah I'm not sure what I would do when it comes to that because and you know what I'm sure this a little I and I know people that went to private school and see I know it's been one to private school who are incredibly safe but some but some of the most what all these people I know yeah yeah yeah it's been to private schools in the same way that like you know state schools have amazing people and as to tell people but I won't lie I've always had this thing of like I don't know how comfortable I would feel knowing that I can I could send my kids to an institution where everybody knows that they are there because their parents have access to money and a privilege that the average person doesn't have. And obviously if you're there on a scholarship, I wonder what that experience was like for you, like coming in there on my parents' loaded flex. No, you know what it was? It was like exactly that. Being at the school, the education, the teachers, some of the teachers were awesome. They expect a lot of you, which is weird because you're still just any kid, but obviously you have to take an entrance exam and whatever. So there's all this thing of like, you're expected to be at a certain level of intelligence level, which is kind of deep because you're young. But I think the thing that was good was the teachers are, the teachers are, they're kind of some of the only teachers I know that are paid. How much of any every teacher should be paid. You get me so they're kind of happy to be there. Yeah, like I was already in other, I mean I went there, I was mixed race. There wasn't many people who were black or like, you know, to be an ethnic minority there was already your deep into minority. But on top of that, you're kind of then like they're kind of, to their kind of, you know, now reminded of you, I'm fulfilling another stereotype of being the one that's like asking for a handout and whatever. So yeah, I guess for me, what I enjoyed about it though was just being able to flip it and be in that room, you know, and much like, you know, the story of Barack Obama when he's at university is like, everyone's expecting him to do a certain thing and he's able to kind of go, yeah, well, actually, I'm going to take all the judgment and use it to my advantage and slip through the net. I noticed. But yeah, it was weird. I don't think I'll say my son there, just because there's a disconnect between the reality of, you know, of life. You want me, people from all walks of life. And I was lucky because I was only there for a few years. But, you know, to be there for your entire schooling, you don't get to hang out of anyone, you know, I was like, I was like the only guy who was kind of broke. You know, you know, you know, I mean, just me and the other people who were on scholarship, we ended up being friends. You know, I mean, because we were like similar, you know, what, like, wanted more for ourselves than maybe like, at the schools in our area, what offering, but also weren't from this world. So it was very easy for us to just kind of like stay together and hide. Thank you so much for your insight. Yeah, because I've always, I've always wondered about that, because I only boys went to lights and prestigious like private schools. Some of them are safe, and some of them like they obviously are born into a privileged and stuff, but they almost had no choice but to be dickhead to one of a bit of phrase. Because they know because they were race to believe like you are elite, you are an actual of a society, and you know, you're going to be this, that and that. And so, to be honest, he's a he or she perspective, it's really, really interesting, really interesting. Let's be into it like everything. I definitely feel very grateful for the rooting in education that gave me, but yeah, that's kind of kind of it. And but you got also go to the Brits School for a bit, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, my schooling was, it was fucked up until the end of the year. I mean, like, it wasn't your typical schooling, but I think, yeah, what was crazy is that the Brits School was really, that was my like, you know, like the space where I was able to one be surrounded by just society, you know, I mean, properly, which was essential for me. I would have been in like year 10 or so, until I can't, I don't know how that is, maybe 14 or something. 14, 15, I think? Yeah, yeah. 14, you know, so like, it was essential for me to reestablish myself in a world that I was just slipping out of, you know, I think if I'd have been at my other school anymore, I could have, you know, no, I couldn't afford the same shit that the other guys had, but I mean, I was, I was still going to, those kind of parties and whatever. So yeah, it kind of came at the perfect time for me. That was almost my like equivalent of going, you know, going to state school, going regular school. So yeah, I loved it there because some of these, I mean, that's it, you know, because I'm I used to live in I used to live in Clapham Junction and every morning when I go to the train station to get to where I needed to be, you can always spot the bridge, the bridge, the, the, you need to deal with the, deal with the kick-quick. No, no, no, no, it's fun. I wore his, oh, right. What, what have you done, young man? He's just right now a little update for the, for everyone listening. He's taken all of my girlfriend's makeup, which wasn't supposed to be touched by him and grown it everywhere, but I'm in a thing where you saw, but he's so occupied with it that like, she'll never know, you guys will know, but she'll never know that I might just let this run and see how it pans out. Hang on, hang on, are you making now me and all our listeners? Yeah, the conferences. Yeah. In the crime. Yeah, we go. So let me buy your son. I guess your partner's makeup. He's just touching her. And I was doing contour in your face. No, he's touching her. It's our secret, I mean, my, my, my, my, I never listens to these, so they'll be fine. I can catch up. Thank you. Okay. The car report guys people like, yeah, yeah, it was amazing. I'm like, oh, it's it. Laya. Okay, fantastic. This, okay, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're all, we're all keeping it. Everyone, please do not, do not, uh, pay up, uh, law's child. So he's, please, please, please, please, but, um, yeah, when I, when I, when I let him clap and don't, should I just remember, always at the, always on the platform, I think it's either platform 11 or 12, you can spot the Brits kids. Yeah, that's the one. Because they would literally be like popping and locking on the platform, like, yeah, yeah, just doing the absolute most. Where, how did you, how did you navigate that? Were you involved? I think I never get it like any, like any kid, you know, I mean, I was able to, to have fun. Like, I was in a dark group. I was in a, like, doing my, doing my popping and locking, but also what I loved about it was a space for, like, experimentation. So I did loads of goofy stuff there that, like, if I hadn't have gone there, I might not have felt brave enough to do, but there was always someone who was more extroverted, who was more embarrassing, the new, right? So it was just a safe space to fail. I guess that was what was awesome about the Brits School for me was like, I could fail without anybody seeing me. So I, you know, before I had any career in anything, I was already trying out, yo, what does it look like if I do this? What if I dress like that? What if in, you know, if, you know, I was studying theatre there as well. I wasn't doing music. So, um, I really like that because I think it allowed me to, to make, for music to be just a hobby as opposed to, like, an education. Do you still have aspirations to act perhaps, like, on stage or? Yeah, yeah. It's, like, is that a part of you that's like now? Or are you, are you still open to it? No, massively. It's something that I've actually got more interested in recently. I think, I have to do in this, doing this last album. I was like, I was like, kind of, you know, I feel like I've just spent, it's kind of spent myself musically. And I'm still, you know, still working on all my music, but kind of as a, as a challenge to myself, I'm kind of, yeah, thinking about that. What does it look like if I write a play next or if I write a film or direct one or if I'm in one, you know, to kind of keep myself? As you grow, I guess, in this, you know, like one of my heroes really is, Donald Glover, you know, Charles Gambino and what I think, yeah, why he's been able to do this for so long is because he has kept following what excites him as opposed to just doing what people expect of him, you know, so for me, it's kind of just trying to be a chameleon with it. So yeah, 100%, I'd love to. So if you're listening, get me in, get me next James Bond, please. Hey, listen, anything in happened. Do you remember the first time that you performed to a London crowd like, like as Laurel Carna? Was it when you were at Brit, were you performing for like your fellow students like Rapian were, or like, do you remember the first venue that you booked as Laurel? Yeah, I was, it would have been, my first headline show was at Birthdays and that was for our EP and I've made that. Oh my god, that's so funny. So big zoo, we've had big zoo in the podcast, he, his first show was at Birthdays as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, you know, there was like a right passage, I think, for a lot of artists at the time. But yeah, like the show itself, like my performance was terrible because we just didn't rehearse but then we just thought we were sick. And I forgot, like I came in on the first song, like four bars too early or four bars too late so the drums didn't come in whatever it meant to. Then I forgot my lyrics in another song and and then I tried to make a joke. Yeah, everything was terrible about it. But I'll never forget it because it was like, it was a good, it was like my first show and it taught me loads because then I had to, basically had to pat him up, I had to like respect the crowd and actually not think I could just do it in my sleep. So yeah, yeah, but you can't, you can't hit it on the table. Do you remember the first shows that you went to, like as a kid, like the major thing, okay, this is a bit of me and like what then what venues were you going to? Where were you hanging out? I went to that, I mean, I played and went to the Amisham Arms a couple times for the Steeves, for the Steeves nights in New Cross. That's a long time ago. But I mean, for me, like I used to love going to the jazz cafe and going because they were putting on a lot of a lot of rap shows. But the main one for me would always be Bricks and Academy. I was meant to go see Kanye West play there, but my mum wouldn't let me go because someone had been, someone got stabbed or someone got shot there that a week before and this is like college dropout Kanye West and my mum was like, you're not going to be a fan. Definitely not this era. Yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry to even bother with that. Yeah, it's very, very much done. I've tried my best actually to kind of always be on the side of like you need help and you know, supporting me or whatever, but in recent times I can't even get down with it anything. Yeah, no, no, yeah, we can't. But I'm talking about the Kanye West that was like at the time, speaking out against homophobia, we're speaking out against Nazis. I mean, I'm talking about that guy and I was trying to explain to him. You don't understand this like, this isn't the rap that you're thinking of. Do you know what I mean? This is not the rap that the newspapers are telling you about. This is the rap that like, that is everything that I believe in. Everything that you believe in. So yeah, he's gone to come obviously. he'd fallen a long way from that. But yeah, bricks and academy. I used to go to everything there, like the UK Breakdance Championships. Yo, I was always in the corner, like busing, busing sign. - Were you a little B boy? Did you, were you a one of the Breakdance? - Yeah, I wanted to be, I mean, I grew up in an era of MTV base and all Missy Elliott videos and stuff and that, like all of that shit was, there was just people breakdancing in every video, like Bashar, Ja, I mean Marcus Houston. These guys, sweet boy guys that just, yeah, made you feel like you had to be able to do that. In every video. I still think there's a world where I have to make one, like make one video where we get down like that, 'cause it was a dream when I was young. - Oh my gosh. - Please, please, please. Please, please, please. (upbeat music) Who doesn't love the gift of an amazing memory? I love making this podcast because everyone enjoys a good reminisce and I'm being honest when I say, I am thrilled to be working with Instax on this series. An Instax camera or smartphone printer is such a great gift for anybody. So easy to use with three different film sizes, mini, square or wide and each has its own look and feel. From the colorful Mini 11 to the retro classic design of Mini 40, they are the perfect accessory for every social event in your calendar this holiday season. So don't just take, give, head to Instax.co.uk to find out more. (upbeat music) Who are you rolling with when you were a teenager, like about town, like, what kind of stuff are you doing? Were you that kid that hung out at the shop, like was shoppersent of like hours and hours? Were you like, a loner? Like, what was your, what was your fans? I think I was a bit of a bit of an outsider for many reasons. I was just a bit weird as a kid, but also like I lived on the outskirts, especially when I was at a brick like, I was far away, everyone was kind of living in ends like they were all in central, like kind of in, you know, between zones, free and one. And I was all the way out in zone six. So yeah, I guess I used to go to the Wicgift Centre in Croydon all the time. - Oh my gosh, the Wicgift. (laughs) That's the greatest Saturday though. - Come on, come on, 'cause it was a place to be, but I saw many things there, you know, I seen like bad stuff, you know, people like, people lose their lives, but I also seen, you know, like some joyous things, like, yeah, it was a, it was an education for me really, you know, growing up in, growing up in Croydon, you see everything. I never forget one time I was in McDonald's with my mom, and a guy got thrown, a guy got thrown through the McDonald's window. We were sat in McDonald's eating, and someone came flying through the window. (laughs) And my name was like, Croydon. (laughs) I used to go to Central London a lot as well, because of like, my friends being so sporadic, it was such an easy meeting place. So yeah, we used to always, I just think, link up in, link up in Central, walk around Oxford Circus. I mean, go to the Urban Outfitters. - Really? - Not buy anything. - Yeah, not buy them, just, yeah, just window shopper. Forever, go nighttime and just look, you know, what could be. (laughs) - I remember the Nike Tower, first opened it, it was like this, like Utopia, it was like, oh my God, there's a whole shop with Nike stuff in it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Like Disneyland. - Just couldn't afford it, yeah, it was like, Disneyland for tracksuits. (laughs) - Were you that group of guys that were like, I don't know, like if you see a group of girls, it was like, oh, was it? (laughs) - I wish I was able to chat to girls on RGN, man. Like, if I knew everything I knew now, do you know what I mean? I'll be so, even be different, but I was always just, I was terrible. I was terrible. You know, I had homies that had older sisters and they could talk to girls, no, I couldn't. I just had nothing, I just got so shy, or like, too talkative, I'd just, I wasn't made for it. - You weren't the teenage castin' over. - Nah, nah, nah, I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish, I had to wait a little while for that to start to kick him. - I see, I see. Were you much of a clubber? Or was it more like gigs? Were you like, were you a raver? - Nah, nah, I was more, I was more, more going to show. But yeah, I don't know, it was weird. I was talking to someone about this the other day, about like neurodiversity, that, like, 'cause when I was at school, I was, you know, 'cause I have ADHD, my mom, you know, put me on a course of this medication, like ADHD medication, I'm real in. And that's essentially like, speed. You know what I mean? It's essentially class A. So when I was at school, I had to take drugs, do I mean, so on the weekends, when everyone else was trying to go out and get loose and like, feel like they could beat themselves by opening up a little bit. I was kind of more always, like, I got to be myself by not taking drugs. You get me? So like, everything that kind of came with party culture and whatever, it wasn't that I was against it. I loved to dance, I loved to listen to music, I loved to go out, but I just, I could never get down with that side of it, because for me, I was, I was, that felt oppressive. I mean, it didn't feel like a relief. I was not like that. It's for me. So yeah, I used to love going to shows, like, whenever I was used to go, oh, we're going to go out afterwards. That was when I just got home. OK, so were you the one that learned how to drive early, or were you a night bus guy? No, I was a night bus, night train, from, there was one train an hour, because I lived just like, I could go to like, South Croydor's station, or I could go to Perly Oak, or whatever to, and get home. So there was always one train I could catch every hour from Victoria, so I used to always catch that train. When we ask you this, because I always feel stuff, sometimes the most exciting stuff always happens on the way back home. Do you remember seeing anything particularly like wild? Yes, I do remember crazy things happening. I remember at Victoria on the platform, the guy, a guy, I watched the guy throw up, like, like a dragon, that really throw up all across the floor. And then another guy, like a city guy, in a suit running, like, breathing for his train, doesn't see the sick, hits it, means that kids his head, hides all the way across the platform, across the open con course. And then he was super injured, they had to put a whole thing around him. Yeah, it was crazy. Not the city guy slipping in the sick. But then also that's kind of metaphorical for what it is like to live in London, isn't it? It's sort of like, you know, it's beautiful. You've got people being out there having a good night, and you've got the people grinding the gears of capitalism, like, the sick and the puke. Them shoes with no grit. That's it, but there's an allegory in it, isn't there? I feel, you know what I mean. But that's what I love about the train in general, is just the beauty of all these different worlds coming together. I mean, now I drive a lot, and I kind of get bummed out, and I try to catch the train when I can, because I used to, that's why I used to get all my inspiration, because you're like an anthropologist on the train. I mean, you're watching everybody all day, and people are doing some weird shit on the train, or on a platform, or on a way to the station. And I think when you're driving, you're disconnected from that. So I like to do it as much as I can. That's so true, because I think, and I think, particularly, as Londoners, I think, you know, it's been a recurring theme on this podcast, that we are friendly, but there's also a kind of, there's a stichers of sort of like, what are you looking at, thing? But they're also very peculiar way of our surroundings. And I guess, especially for you as an artist, you know, public transport, that must be, like, yeah, one of the best places to really get inspired from people. Yeah, it's a gold mine. It's beautiful also, because it's where you see a lot of beauty, too. You know, I mean, you get to see, like, for me, with movies that I love, you know, it's always like kitchen sink drama. I mean, I like to see things happening for real, and real people with real emotions. So I don't know, yeah, like, I honestly don't think a lot of my music would have been made without, you know, like, a lot of it's always, it's always reference public transport, you know, like, southern trains, underground, it's all work. I'm always recording them on my phone, because that's where, like, that's spontaneous stuff happens that makes you want to write music about it, you know what I mean? Have you ever been caught home by someone, like, making a voice note or writing clearly, they've clocked in being like, hang on a minute. Are you? I'm on cover about this story when I was really young, and I first got a phone with a camera on it, that there was this woman sat like, this beautiful woman sat up with us on a train, and I just bit, like, bed, like, blatantly, bare face just took a photo of her. (laughs) Just like, one of my little, one of my, I was the kid, and just was like, I was like, wow. Wow. (laughs) I mean, he was appreciating beauty, but maybe not boundaries, but you were a kid, so we're gonna have a good time. (laughs) No, yeah, no, but, I was young, I was young, I was about to step away, okay, so, - Okay, fair do, fair do, fair do, now, look, it will be remiss of me to chat to you, not to talk to you about food and cooking, because as we know, London is an incredible place to eat you yourself, I've got your own cooking school for kids, I need to talk to you about eating up and around the town, like, where right now are you going to get the good, good, where are you loving to eat? - I mean, I still always go, my friend, my friend, Elliot, he's bounced around a lot, but he has, like, a food thing done on called Lagom, so wherever he goes, I go, I think he's at the spurs, though, arms right now, but yeah, that's where I go, if I wanna go get some barbecue meat. - So that's East London? - Yeah, East London, I still hit the Vietnamese trip, as well, in East London. If I wanna get Asian food, Indian food, then I go to toying, obviously. Man, I'm everywhere, but really, I don't know, I've also been going to forest gate for a similar kind of food to where I was going to toying, as well, so yeah, I'm around, but more time, my go to is Vietnamese food. I go to what's the really, I make marito, that's like my expensive place, if I'm feeling fancy. And that's on Hattney Road. Marito's awesome. Dom subs, you know, for quick sandwich. Yeah. And your cooking school, like how's that going at the moment? Is it like what's the current status are you planning to sort of expand it outside of London or like what's the need at the moment? I literally just did, um, um, had a like a really long conversation with with the main man Jamie Oliver about, um, like the hope of expanding it properly, you know, because I would love for it to be, you know, because I find it myself to cook in school, I can only take it so far and, um, I can only afford to take it so far and I would love for it to be one, yeah, I think that pops up in the summer over across the UK and then maybe like other parts of the world, but also for it to maybe exist, you know, all year round, go to schools and stuff. So yeah, I'm trying to figure out just how I can access as many kids as possible. And are you, um, also, can I ask you, is you still cooking at home a lot or not really, are you, are you out? No, I am, I mean delivery really is like, just, is killing me, man, I need to slow down with that because, um, my metabolism is not what it used to be, but because of my son, I have to cook, um, you know, and stuff that's relatively healthy, so it's really been a benefit, been a benefit for me as well to kind of watch what I'm eating. But yeah, we cook at home all the time. Have you got a particular, um, have you, you'd have to say a name, because obviously not try to bait up your address, but have you got a particular like boss man shop that you go to or a local shop that like, where you can always get the good good? The local shop on my corner, just the 12 to 12 pound shop, which is like just the most blatant, gentrified, like, deli place ever, but it just, it has everything I need always, but every always comes up to 12 pounds, like you could go and just get some, some lural and some sugar on these 12 pounds. It's like, it will never be below that. No matter what it is, no matter what it is, but yeah, I love it there. Um, but yeah, the 12 to 12 pound shop still, that's why, that's why I hang out. Um, do you still go to the boss man shop there? Because like for me, like there's, there is a comfort about walking into shop and knowing you can get, well, in, in my culture, we call it a big guy on a musco laundry bag, you can get your broom, you can get like, I don't know, batteries, you can get fake flowers, whatever like. Yeah, I'll tell you what, there's a, there's a, on a, on a studio, at a studio, we, we, we work at, there's a spot, um, right, we're at Hattney, we, we, we work at Hattney Road Studio Shard to them. I'm like, there's one, there's one corner, I can't remember what it's called, but a dude in there always, he's got like photos of all the people, all the famous people that have come in, right? And um, always, he's always pressing me, not, not for a photo, he doesn't care about that, but he's always pressing me, he's like, yo, when can I get in the studio? When can I get in the studio? Yo, bring me and bring me in. So at some point, you're going to hear him. You know what? I think let him live, you know, get him on. Why not? Let him live. Let him live. Let him live. Let me talk to you about more like all stuff. Um, you're a swimmer, aren't you? You're an outdoor swimmer. I did not, yeah, talk like, are you, are you on these outdoor swimmers? It does it when it's freezing cold, is it? It's strictly a summer time thing. I try and make it all year round, um, if I can. It's nicer, it's nicer in the winter because people don't go, you know, um, and as long as the water's heated, but more time I'm trying to go, there's, there's a, there's a reservoir I found out about recently, which is like a, like a, at-proper outdoor one, which I've been going through a little bit recently, and that's freezing. But I like it. Yeah, it's good. I don't know, I feel like it's the closest thing I can get to, um, to meditation. It's like one of the only things that I kind of, I do that, and, um, kickboxing, moitai. Those are the two things, the two things that do you? Do you feel like a bit of a bad run every time you finish a class? Yeah. It's not, it's just what I, it's so weird to say, but it's so awesome to get hit in the face, because you realize that you're not as weak as you think you are. I mean, it's funny. I was talking to my guy, Ali, who's, he's got a fight actually tomorrow, shout out to Ali. Um, but he, um, he was saying, I was asking him, you know, where can I improve? Because I've been doing it for a minute now. It was probably just when I had my son, I was like, well, I need to actually be a kind of a bit dangerous now, after being a soft boy forever. And, um, he, I was like, what can I improve on? What, you know, what's wrong? And he said, usually people, usually people feel really comfortable throwing their hands, but they don't feel comfortable getting hit. And he said that I'm not opposite, that I'm like scared to hurt someone. I don't want to hurt people, but I don't mind getting hit in the face. So I've just been like swallowing these bangs. I hurt so, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm switching up. Down. I'm switching up. But yeah, I don't mind it. Do you know what, rather you than me, but I, you know, I respect it, I respect it. I respect it. I get involved. You know what, maybe, maybe I will get hit in the face just for fun. How about it? How about it? Um, I feel I'm going to let you go, because you know what, we've had a lovely, lovely chat, but I know that I know fatherhood is beckoning. But, um, before I let you go, let me ask you this, um, if you were mayor for the day, what would you implement? What would you make sure that could be the most frivolous thing? It could be the most serious, and fear and charge of London. What's happening? If I was mayor, I would, um, instantly give it to Atean Akej, who is on my album, who's a good friend of mine, um, who was a youth-lover MP, and now he's just, you know, all round brilliant thinker. And I would make, I would make it easier for dads as well. Just let dads do dad life easier. Yes, yes. But yeah, I would give, I would give the job to Atean, because I know that he would be in safe hands. Actually, cool, cool thing. Before I, before I to end it on that still is that at my last show, um, Siddiqon came, and I was able to introduce him to Atean, and um, Siddiq said, please don't take my job yet, so shout out to both of them. Wow. Siddiq, so Siddiq, maybe I'm seeing the future. Peace of the city, bro. I mean, like Bruce Wayne. That's it. Loyal, Ben, Ben, Lord, I mean, I feel like you've been bending this conversation. Yeah, I'm very much Ben right now. This is, you've got me at my most Ben. Thank you so much for sharing your stories with us. Thank you to your son, for his excellent, for his excellent company. He has brought a lot of colour character. Thank you so much for listening to this city, and if you liked it, don't forget you can tell your mates are one better. If you visited any other spots we talked about and have a story, let me know on socials. Remember, you can like, rate and subscribe in all the usual podcast places. See you next time. [BLANK_AUDIO]