‘Love Me Not,’ Healing, and Growing with Ravyn Lenae

(upbeat music) Raven LaNay has been releasing music since she was in high school and making waves ever since. She grew up on the south side of Chicago, trained in classical music and blends that with the futuristic R&B sound that's all her own. Her song "Love Me Not" went viral a four year after it dropped. And now with this anthem, she's having a major moment. She had her debut at Coachella in La La Paloza and she's touring with Sabrina Carpenter. We're talking about her album, "Birds Eye," the real story behind "One Wish," and what it means to take control of her voice on and off the mic. ♪ No matter what we do in the car ♪ ♪ Just chilling, couple, Amazon music ♪ ♪ Sit back and listen to A ♪ ♪ Life loves sex, science hovers it all ♪ ♪ Especially the back is money always involved ♪ ♪ No matter what it is ♪ ♪ We can make it make sense ♪ ♪ It's nothing else to do but kick it with the homies it can ♪ ♪ So grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy ♪ ♪ And get into the vibe that only makes sense ♪ ♪ You know it's your business ♪ ♪ This is kicking, baby, this is kicking home a yeah ♪ - Before the holiday rush kicks in, I'm partnering with Airbnb to help you plan that perfect autumn escape from dreamy mountain retreats to spacious homes, perfect for gathering with friends and family. Airbnb has amazing spaces for every kind of getaway. Now let's get into it. Okay, Raven, I'm so first of all, I'm so excited because I got introduced to your music through my friend and my makeup artist, Kenia. - I'm excited, you heard it, Raven, right? - After that, literally every time that I'm getting glam, I'm listening to your music. And then I had to DM you and then-- - So you need to do a cover. - Yeah, I'm obsessed with you. And then now you're on the show, so thank you for pulling up. - Thank you for having me, boo. - Chicago girl. - Chicago girl. - Now I had you do the pre-show pull-ups. I'm about to get into what your answers are. - Okay. - I'm very excited. - So today I'm giving whimsy, period, because I feel like you live there. With a side of black swan. Now what is the black swan? - This is the edge. - It's the edge. - That's the edge, that's the edge. And then obviously with the-- - Yeah, the boot. - I mean, I love this. Is this a custom skirt? - Like what did you find? - Oh, it's a designer, is that-- - Okay, then. - Here you're broke off good, man. I know that's what you're up. - The car ain't declined. Okay, today's mood in one word here, present. We love a present, really. I'm in the moment. What did you listen to on the ride here? Unreleased? - Yeah. - I need to be here and then. - What is the oven name? - I think you said Link, so do I. - So you're working on a new project already. - New album. - How long? - It's been maybe five or six months. - Would you say that's the beginning for you still or you deep in it? Like do you have a timeline when you're like, I'm closing it out? - It's usually the same amount of time. So by this time, I'm deep in it. And like that's all I'm listening to, that's all I'm thinking about. I gotta say, I gotta go to sleep. - Girl, 'cause you can't turn your songs down here. - I can't hear it. - Are you from writing from around the clock? - And I know you were just in with Taylor, my girl. - Yeah, she coming back next week, I think. - Yeah. - I know that's gonna be some fire. - Okay, one thing that makes you instantly laugh, my mama told me her Uber Eats driver stole her Amazon package. What in the ghetto? Now you know times are hard. One corporation's still living from the next. That's crazy. And what was the package? That happened to me recently. - She said it was a candle. That happened to me actually recently. - I don't, it wasn't the Uber Eats driver, but it was definitely somebody, they stole my package. I'm like, it ain't nothing but the goal of flowering. - So enjoy that. - What are you gonna do with that? - Enjoy that. - Yeah, you ain't got no stones. You're stealing, I can't even. - Girl, these people, okay, last screenshot on your phone. - Those last screenshot, did I answer that? - You said a cute, head of Cureset. - Oh yeah, I saw it. - I don't see that many like gemstone designs on people's feet, and I saw it come across my answer. And I was like, I'm doing that. - I do feel like that Y2K is coming back. - It's coming back. - It's somebody just put acrylic on my toe the other day. I said, "Damn it, that's it." Oh, it's cute. - It's cute and it probably lasts. - Yeah, but I thought, like, are we in 2005? - No, for real. - I mean, it needs to start doing that because my big toe beginning to beat it. - Every time I come back, she's like, what you do now? - It's so crazy how I feel. We gotta be careful with our bodies. We can hold your autumn heels and stuff. I don't want the corn, the aunty corn. - I got one. - Girl, it's so hurtful when that happens. - It's real hurtful. - You know, I got one on the end. - Ain't no going down. - My hair! - And it's like literally how do you go back? - You can't go back. - Yeah, it's crazy. Anyway, I'm glad you're here. So excited to, now when I was getting my information, I'm like, okay, I mean, you from the South suburbs, you said you lived in Harvey a little bit. I grew up in Robbins, but I was born in Engles, which is in Harvey. But you also went to Christian Church. So you sang in the choir? - I sang in a choir. - I sang in the choir too. - Really? - Yes. - Yeah, my grandpa, he was a preacher. They came from Panama in the late 70s. - Wow. - And he came from missionary work and ended up staying and started preaching at this church in Palma. - Mm-hmm. - And stayed there. So that's where I went to church every day or every Sunday. I was my first crowd, I sang in front of. - Same with me, my mom was the choir director. - Yeah, my dad became a deacon later on. - Okay, and we just were, you know, going to the church, but yeah, I grew up in the church as well. And then you went to Chicago High School for the art. - Yeah. - So I want to know how you feel like those influence really prepared you for the kind of artists you are now, because one thing I've always loved about your music is it's so eclectic, like it's soul, it's R&B, but it also has like some punk elements. - Yeah. - So I wonder how you hodgepodge all this together. - I think the most natural parts of me are the things that came so second nature when I was little and whatever I grew up around or was listening to. And then the older I get, the more I like, attach other things to that. But church was such a big part of my music journey. My first mentor was the pianist and the music director at church, so I learned a lot of things from him and like piano and just like vocal arrangements and just really getting comfortable in front of a crowd. That was my first experience with that. But then also, hearing what's going on in the city and my mom and she was at her 20s when she was raising me. So here when she was listening to Destiny's Child, Denise Williams. - Denise Williams. - Yes, yes. - Many rippers and then my dial listening to a lot of like outcasts, Ferrell, Devina, dude. - A lot of greats, like they had in a way of different things that you were listening to. Who was some of your favorite artists or inspiration you would say growing up? Did you have a listen to Fifi Dobson? - No. - I feel like you would have liked her. I love Fifi Dobson growing up. She was kind of like an alternative rock type of kid. - You better send me that. - I wanna see Canadian artists. I was like, I wonder if Raven ever listened to her. - Send me that please. I love any black women occupying those type of spaces. - That alt-space. - The Macy Grace, you know, like a police. - Oh my gosh, police. I think as I got older, I really realized how important her representation was with experimental sounds. I don't think I took it for granted when we were younger when I think about it. Now I'm like, damn, she really was doing stuff that we wouldn't have even seen nobody doing. She was pushing. - She was pushing. - Even with just how she did. - I still don't like it right now. (laughing) - Yes, (beep) - It's green. - I want to scream. - She was pushing it. I was also like playing with her hair color. - Oh my gosh, yes. - You know, just free. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, that inspires me. - When do you think you realized that music wasn't just something you were doing in church or just listening to but something you wanted as a career? - Well, when I got first gotten to high school, I think that was subconsciously a big decision for me to commit myself to like being in school from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. doing academics and doing like music afterwards. That was a big decision. I think I didn't realize in a moment but that was me kind of inserting myself in a way. But once I started like really getting in the music scene in Chicago and like the poetry scene. And soundcloud, I was really heavily into. So I started putting out my own music and even like ripping "Catronaut of Beats" sorry, Kate. (laughing) We're making "Catronaut of Beats" from online and making my own songs to them or flying Lotus beat. Just really figuring out what my identity was. And I think that's when I figured out, oh, I really like being a part of music in this way. I don't know where that's gonna take me but I know it makes me feel something. - Yeah, it wasn't nerve-wracking for you 'cause obviously women, when we're really in anything but especially in music. It can really really hard like stepping out and going to the scene. I even remember for myself, like it was one thing when I was a kid doing music but then when I got into my 18, 19, 20, being on your own in the studio, just trying to, I don't know if the word is network. We say network it has a weird connotation but we're like meet people and collaborate with them on what you wanna do. And it can be tough because sometimes they don't really wanna do the music, they wanna do other things. - That too. - So how's our underage? - You know what I mean? - We first started. - Wow. - So my mama and we have this too. - In time? - Yeah. My mama went everywhere with me. Yeah, the traveling, the shows. Like I'm 17 in a bar, you know? So she right there, like, I love that you will both do a net go. (laughing) So they're like, I ain't gonna, I'm not gonna even try 'cause her mama look like she gon' - I love that. - Also, I think what was so important for me was finding my community there so early on. Smino, Monty Booker. Like just a great group of men who were around me, who protected me. - And respecting you for your talent? - Yes. - Yeah. Like, Monty would take me home, drop me back off home after the studio because I couldn't drive. Yeah. So I'm just fortunate to have had like solid men in my corner. Yeah, I mean like you were saying you've been doing music Since you were when she she was teenager. Yeah more shows. Yeah out. How old were you? I was like 15 15 so when you were doing those first shows What is what are the kind of the early things that you remember about being on stage as a performer that has maybe changed or maybe stayed the same? I remember being so nervous to the point where I Couldn't like I remember my voice trembling. I know I probably sound crazy looking back at videos but also I remember just feel like there's something so Electric about being on stage and addicting about it that I just I felt like I wanted to do it over and over and over I still get nervous before stage. I sweat crazy before I go on stage because I'm so Excited and that adrenaline started adrenaline so that still exists, but I think the more Shows I do and the more like people show me that they love it the more comfortable I get and the more I feel like I'm growing into Who I really want to be on stage. Yeah, but I mean you already tour was so many incredible people getting ready to tour Was the more and do your headline your own tour. Yeah, so I remember you also tour with Sizzle yeah during the control Which for me was huge. I think for many of us was huge the conversation she was having with control and what that did for us Yeah, so impactful. What was it like for you being on that tour with her during that time? I was such a Sizzle fanatics still am yeah, but to be a part of something that was so generational Like it's really special and I think sometimes, you know, you don't recognize that in the moment But I think we all felt that yeah in the moment So I'm just happy that she wanted me to be a part of it and Literally from that tour so many of those fans that I was able to get on that tour are still with me today Yeah, so that's the value of those type of things I think and it's so interesting because obviously love me not I think it's a year old, but it's come the soundtracks Yeah, your first billboard 100 but it's also different to me from a lot of the records that I learned about you from yes But it's opened you up to a totally different audience. I mean you're gonna be torn with Sabrina Carpenter Renee rap. Yeah, how was it a when you saw that song get a new life? Yeah, I well When I first when we first finished the song, I felt like I knew that it was special and my team knew it was special But then you hit with the question of okay, how do we get this to as many years as possible? To feel it the way we feel it and that was a challenge for me and like it's been so Rewarding seeing that feeling be validated even like a year later Yeah, because it just makes me want to keep trusting what I'm doing and trusting my team and the music I'm making and it'll reach The ears are supposed to reach so I think that's been the biggest Lesson I've learned through yeah, I mean my mom always says the cream rises to the top and like timing is everything So we don't know how stuff is the right I remember that was the same thing also with Lizzo I can't think the name truth hurt truth hurt. It was like it was around for a while I can actually also with lady Gaga same kind of thing But what's meant to be will always be it always right? So now with that being said and with this record Obviously, it still sounds like you but it's different from some of your other stuff. It's most commercial I guess I was saying. Yeah, how does that make you feel now getting all these new fans? But then also saying like I want you to know all of me like these fans don't mean how all y'all bridge together What as an artist maybe that hasn't been something you've been thinking about or maybe it is it's definitely something I'm thinking about especially because I don't view What I do as as one thing and I like to dabble in so many different puddles. Yeah Um, I don't want to look at it as as even a challenge But I know that the thing for me is going to be muddling all my people into one pot You know the people who love me for my R&B bag or my pot bag or my more Alternative or all pop bag, you know, so I think That allows so many different types of people to come together and one space and that's I think was most exciting about What I'm doing. Yeah, yeah What type of space were you in do you think when you wrote let me not because I know in people they were like okay Is it 50s? Is it 60s? Well, that's something you were intentionally thinking about when you went in the studio and wrote it or did it just Was that just the vibe in it? Yeah, I think there's something about like the throughline of my music is that there is always that classic Almost nostalgic thing about it, but it's still so fresh. Yeah, it's like it doesn't sound like anything I've heard but at some point I heard this before and it feels like in my soul. Yeah, you know, so you know I love that feeling. Oh, yeah, I love that feeling so when people describe my music is that I'm like that's exactly how I want you to feel I mean, what is it like when you were in the studio like I my mind. I'm like it could be one of the things either you're casual as hell Yeah, yeah, yeah, or you're like like like the camp I'm actually casual. Yeah, I wish I was one of those I wish I was her. I'm not her yet. I'm not her yet like then the light That's because that's how I feel when I'm listening to it. It's like everybody said you also could be very like yeah Hey, let's just get into both. Yeah, you know But people like I know you want room. I know you doing something in there. I'm like I'm like oh my god Just such a problem when people think that drugs got you. Yeah, I love that. I mean, you know what? Keep thinking that So you're kind of like vibes or chill? Do you have like what are some of the people that you love working with the most? Well as a lay I love working with Dahie. He executive produced my last album and he we're working closely on this album too But I clings to producers really hard like when I first came out Monty Booker was my guy. He's still my guy and then Steve Lacey. Like whenever I find my people. Yeah You and Steve you and Donald. Yeah, I mean, there's just like so did you just call them up? Did they find you? Did you send them the record like because to me those are people that I ain't doing stuff with people that You know you gotta be in a room. You're not going to just like see that I'm just rocking with everything You know what I mean? Yeah, and I feel like it was such a perfect connection with you and him with you and Donald And so like how did y'all find each other? Yeah, yeah, so me and Steve I was I was a fan of the internet I was a fan of Steve like high school randomly. I remember I was taking a nap and my phone was buzzing crazy And I looked at it and I saw a DM from him. No, he had tweeted out my recent project at the time And he was like whenever you in LA. I need to get with you. I love what you're doing I was on the next flight. I'm just playing all right Well a few weeks after I came to LA for the first time and I met him and it was just that instant instant feeling and that's rare to me like whenever you work with a producer you feel like oh you get me And I don't even have to explain it. I cling to that super hard I just love those type of pairings like the Timberland and Alia or dark child and brandy I love or Quincy and Michael just stick with it is what you think you said like the fact that Quincy and Michael didn't do more. Yeah, I guess working stick with that's how I that's how I am Yeah, and it was the same with Donald. How did you guys end up doing that record? So Donald We actually met because he was working on his album. Okay, he wanted me on a song So I um I was working on something with him and then I was like, you know what? I had this open verse on one wish for so long and I couldn't think of who I wanted on it I was like, oh, this is perfect and he loves the sound you remind me of many Yeah, you're supposed to add. Oh, and it's such a beautiful song. Uh, thank you That's one of my I think my favorite records from you. Thank you. Yeah, and I think it's interesting I'm curious what you think obviously how are you handling the new visibility because to this point People in the industry and real music heads. They've been listening to like you're when they'd be like this your artist favorite artist You're that. Yeah, um, so how does it feel now seeing all this visibility in this new way? Yeah, you know, how does it affect you? I feel like I'm still um getting used to the transition and also like like It's so crazy how you can be operating at a certain rhythm for so long. Yeah, and then something just changes that and they're like oh Okay, okay, okay, so it feels like that yeah, you know But also, I'm just happy that I'm here and that I'm getting to welcome so many new Faces and spirits into my world. Yeah, I can ask for so I just got to catch up to the the momentum of it Um, yeah, and then hopefully I just hope that people are here to stay and not for the moment, you know, because I I think of my career and my music as that So I hope this is the the bridge. Yeah to like lifelong fans Absolutely, I mean, we feel that way about you the artist that we love Beyonce each album. She finds new fans But the same ones from the beginning are always still holding on. Yeah, um, how do you look at like fashion and stuff for your music? Because when I first you know when you hear somebody song you're like, I gotta go to the page What they look like what they vibe like what's their look and you've had so much consistency Which are like you've been the red ginger from the beginning whether it's straight Yeah, I've seen so much consistency for cuz I went down your page. I was like what's my girl give it and I was like I live for her And so like when you think about your image and look because that's a part of like storytelling and artistry too How do you feel like that compliments the music? What are you trying to kind of put together for people visually? Yeah, it's it. I agree with you. It's a huge part of it and with the red I don't know that's just been something that stuck with me red feels bold. It feels passionate But I just like loyalty with certain things too. So like that feels good for me Um, but I think Like as I grow as I get older and as the projects change and evolve, I kind of figure out where I like to sit in the fashion world, I guess, but I know that there's something so, like whimsical and classic about me as a person. And I'm like, however, I can express that, you know, with my clothes I like to. - Yeah, I definitely feel that whims. It's like what you said coming in, whimsy, a little backs warm. - Yeah, something a little less. - It's like, yeah. (laughing) - I felt that. - A little off. - Yeah, it has to go work. You know, but still serving down. (laughing) Speaking of serving down, you served down at Coachella. - Thank you. - And I know that was, I mean, that's huge. - Yeah. - What was that like for you? Has to be a bucket list situation, right? So what was that experience like performing at Coachella? - That was a huge bucket list for me. And before, while I was working on the album, I decided to write down every single thing that I wanted out of the season. And on a sticky note and put it on my mirror and my bathroom. And I've been doing that since then. And Coachella was one of those things. And I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna get it, but we're gonna see. And that happened. And so many of those things have happened for me. But I remember Coachella being kind of the first public show moment since the song had been moving. - Uh-huh. - And I had some anxiety going into it about, oh, is this just an internet moment or is this a real life thing? And I remember being side stage like, ain't nobody here, nobody came. You know, having all those thoughts. And I got on stage and it was packed. And I was like, oh, this is a real life transition happening for me. - For sure. - And like, that gave me all the confidence in the world. So Coachella was a dream for me. - It's so true because you already have, like I said, the validity, but it's just like a game with us for entertainers and people saying the same thing to me all the time. I've been in the industry for over 20 years. - Yeah. - And people be like, this is you. - This show, but you like, girl. - I like it. - This moment done came, it done win, it done came back again. And it's got like, as entertainers as artists, we always have to know the ways we're always writing. But there are certain moments where we're like, nah, this is a little different. - Yeah. - Like, I've always feel it. - You feel it. - But I'm like, I'm feeling that juicy in there. - Yeah. - Exactly. - It's crazy. - That's what it is. - Now, what are you looking forward to about going on tour with Sabrina, going on tour with Renee? And then, I mean, you've have sold out dates already - Yeah. - on tour, you're headlining of your own. - Right. - What can fans expect from this show that maybe they can't get from other shows that you've developed as an artist? - I think with this one, I've never played arenas before. So I think it's a huge deal. And I just wanna, I don't know, re-imagined my show for those type of spaces, because I'm gonna be there one day. And it's just exciting that I get to do this and see their show, too. - Yeah, I know. - And whatever you're gonna see, - All of that. - And whatever could be. - All of that. So, yeah, it's that. And also, whenever I get to open for me, I like the challenge of having to win over a crowd, 'cause that's what it is in a way. - Sure. - But I feel like I'm going into it with a little more ammo with the song and people maybe being a little more familiar with me this time. - But yeah, I'm pumped. Hopefully, I win over so many people, new people. - I'm sure you will. And I know you talked a lot about bringing your weird kind of, like, armbeat to the pop crowd. I know a lot of times as artists and even as fans, we can be like, no, this is my thing. I wanted to stay in Mesh, but it's like that. It's a beautiful thing when you can bring something that A) could be considered Mesh. - Yeah. - To the whole world. That's another level of something. I know that's something that you're interested in and wanna do, so I think this is gonna be a really great stepping stone and people that wouldn't know this type of sound, realizing how much you're gonna really be obsessed with the sound. - 'Cause sometimes people don't know how to find music that they have no way to. - That's so true. - That's so true. That's a great point, yeah. - So you cashed your real dad in your music video for one wish and I was like, this is some deep. She's deep, who was kind of not a part of your life. Not to go soul. But I mean, when I was finding this information, I'm like, okay, my girl is really on that black swan. (laughing) So tell me about the process of being like, "Let me call this (beep) up." - Yeah. - Let me call him up. - Yeah. ♪ Baby, this is cakey pola, yeah ♪ - Here's the thing about traveling. While postcards are nice, the real magic happens when you dive into local life. And trust me, there is no better way to unlock a culture's heart than through the kitchen. When fools on the table, we're all speaking the same delicious language. Speaking of which, I've got some exciting news, y'all. I'm hosting my very own Airbnb original experience in Chicago on December 17th. And it is all about cooking up some love in the kitchen. Imagine this culinary dream. You, me, my pops, and a local chef with mad skills, all in one kitchen cooking up a storm. We're talking flavors so good that make your taste buds do a happy dance. We're talking delicious recipes, kitchen secrets, and plenty of laughs. We're about to make this kitchen feel like the hottest cooking show in town. And y'all know when my dad and I get together, there's bound to be some entertainment. We might even share our secret ingredient for the perfect comfort food. I don't know about that one. The best part, it's not just about what's cooking in the pots and pans. It's the laughs we'll share. The stories will tell, and yes, the absolutely incredible food will devour together. When good people gather in the kitchen, that's where the real magic happens. So whether you're a kitchen pro or novice, this experience is for everyone who loves good food and good company. And trust me, by the end of our time together, you'll feel like a culinary superstar. So if you're ready to roll your sleeves up and join me for some culinary fun, head to airbnb.com/kiki to learn more about my airbnb original experience. Let's mix a magic in the kitchen together. This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. As many of y'all know, holiday shopping as a working mama is no joke. Between prepping for my next guest on the podcast and chasing after my little one, your girl needs everything to be efficient. That's why I'm obsessed with Apple Pay. The other day, I'm recording and during my break, I realize I still need to order those magic pajamas for a family Christmas photo. But instead of stressing, I just pulled out my iPhone for some last minute shopping, found the cutest PJs online and easily purchased them with Apple Pay. I just tapped the Apple Pay button at checkout, a quick Face ID scan, and Dane. Transaction complete. Trust and believe, holiday magic isn't about filling out payment forms. It's about creating special moments with family. And Apple Pay gives me more time for that. And when I'm ordering all those fun stocking stuffers on my baby boy and those perfect gifts for my parents, Apple Pay makes it quick. No more juggling a million things between takes. For real though, whether I'm ordering holiday decorations or booking a Santa photo experience, Apple Pay makes it seamless. Just look for that Apple Pay button when you're shopping online or in apps. Pay the Apple way. Terms apply. (upbeat music) What was the conversation like? Who you were like, let me call my dad. Let me have him in this video. Let him know and understand the impact that his absence had had on him. Right. Yeah, that's a big thing. I remember when I wrote the song, it was so easy to write because it was from memory and from experience. But even prior to that, me and him had already started talking to each other. And I remember I called him one random day. We hadn't talked in so long. And I was like, this feels weird. We miss in birthdays. We miss in holidays. We miss in time. And I'm at a point where, I turned 25 of my frontal lobe went, I'm here now, I'm thinking, I'm having thoughts. But I was like, if we all thought of our parents as humans and thinking of them as, my parents had me as teenagers. So just thinking about what that mindset is and wanting to approach him with a little more understanding, I think is where I'm at in my life. So I called him and I said, let's talk it out. Let's figure it out. Let's try. I would feel horrible if something happened to either one of us that we didn't try. So since then, it's been, we've been having a lot of difficult conversations, some awkward conversations, but also some good times. He went to Disney, Universal. He comes to all the shows. So his dad, he's the one that's Panamanian. My mom's Panamanian. My mom's Panamanian, my mom's Panamanian. Okay, so my dad can me go with it. (laughing) Okay, I'm howling. So what was that day like being on the set and everything? So there were weeks before I told him there was a, I told him about the song. I said, I wrote a song about this particular moment. And then once you started going through the creative for the video, I was like, this would feel so weird if I casted somebody else to play this part, you know? I feel like it would be a good moment for us to share and for him to even understand what I'm feeling, you know? But obviously, once you got on set, and he saw certain scenes with the little girl running behind the car, and I could tell there was a shift in his brain where he was like, oh, this is in a fun, lighthearted video. (laughing) Yeah. So the next day, I was like, let's go to Roscos. Let's have a talk about what we felt, let it. - It'll always heal it won't it? (laughing) - Okay. - It just opened up an important hard conversation that I feel like we might have been avoided for a long time. And that's when music does, I feel. - It is absolutely what music does. For the artist, music does for the person that's watching it, the fan. For me, it was like, it can mean something. Like, I didn't even realize that that was what you were coming from, I was thinking about love. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Obviously love is so many different kinds. - Right. - For the familiar love. - For my friendship. - Friendship love. - Yeah. - Romantic love. - Yeah. - I think that's also the marker of a really great song is because no matter the scenario you may even apply to you. - Yeah. - And the fact that it came from such a deep place for you, I think, is probably why it hasn't had it. - It hasn't had it. - Yeah. - So how is it for you? Are you always, 'cause you do it with a lot of different big themes, break up, love, all these things we're talking about. Is it always something personal? Or are you also the kind of artist where it could be a conversation with a friend, or someone that you knew. - Yeah. - I'm the type of artist. Sometimes I don't got that much going on. (laughing) - Wait a minute. I didn't ask you a sign or your big three. - I'm an Aquarius sign. - I should have known Aquarius before you. - It's something about you. - I love that. I love that we usually get hate. So I'm loving this good press. - That's because some people are born. - Thank you. - Y'all don't like born people. - So Aquarius sign. - Aquarius sign. - Aquarius moon. That's the black smile sign. - Yeah. - Query, airy moon and then Gemini rising. - Oh my gosh, you got a double air. That's what you hate about Gemini's stuff going on. Yeah, very. Okay, anyway, sorry. - Okay, what are you? - I'm a Virgo son. - I love Virgo. - I'm gotta get down to this. - Yep, two plus two. - Girl. - Yeah. (laughing) - My moon is sadge. That's the part where you're too. - Okay. - Very light in your face with like, - Yeah. - And then my rising, this is the thing that really gets me is the cancer girl. - Cancer. - Have you had a crime? - Have you been crime? - Have you been slotted down a wall? - Like that's thing of, "Oh, Kerry watching to make me." (laughing) - That's it, yeah. - What do Kerry do that? - I felt her though. - I felt so extra. We love the moon though. - That's so good. - Okay, so yeah, so you're kind of one of those people where it's like, I'm sitting back, but I'm watching. - I'm watching, I'm observing, I'm feeling like, yeah, so sometimes I pull from something my mom, I'd have been through or my friend or, I don't know, it's something in a movie. - Yeah, I don't know. I like to like leave it open. - Yeah, yeah. - You said something interesting. I'm curious what you mean, that you weren't an active member of your life after hypnosis, but a breakup helped a lot of, you know, the help the clouds clear up. - No, I said to me back, I couldn't even even this. - Um, I felt like after I released Crash, things felt foggy for me. I felt like I didn't really have a clear direction on what I wanted to do. I knew I wasn't comfortable, but I didn't know how to see beyond that in a way. I felt like I was really, like my initial reaction to things would be negative or no or closed off. I don't know, I just felt like I wasn't in a place where I was open to all things in like, and that's also can affect like your mental, but also like your relationships with people, your relationship to music in my career as a whole. - Yeah. - So when I say I don't feel like I was an active member in my life, I feel like I was so sunken in that I wasn't allowing myself to take control. - And be truly present. - Yeah. - Yeah, and I think those faces are important. I think they all go, you don't have that. They're kind of just like, I'm watching it pass me by. - Yeah. - Until you decide or there's a moment or there's something that lets you know, hey, I gotta wake up and I, it's not gonna happen if I don't say it. - I don't do it. I don't do it. I can complain about this. I can complain about that or this, but like at the end of the day, this is my life and I want to take the reins. - Yeah. - You know, and hypnosis, you think that process of creating that project was a part of helping you do that. - It definitely helped me do that. And so by the time I got to Bird's eye, I felt unleashed in a really crazy way. And I think seeing like the success of the song for me right now is all like, it's not just about like career success. To me, it's, oh, this was something that I pushed through and I'm seeing the reward of like internal like resilience. - Yeah. And you also were saying, and this is like, I'm pulling this from the end of you, you have with the guard. - Yeah. - It's something I think is so important. It's a good thing and it's also a tough thing as a black person where you said, I have to, I felt like I had to prove myself to black people and to the R&B community that I really love R&B. And I feel like that's so annoying that we have to do that. I understand what you're saying. And like, you know, but it's like also, what is R&B? We're evolving it in real time. It's had so many faces. And by the way, it has to evolve. I think the strongest thing about R&B that should always stay the same, that it needs to survive is a narrative. And we've lost that a lot of times in an artistry where it's like, what are you talking about? What's the story like R&B needs that? But as far as sound, it's Sonic's. I mean, there's an element of soul that's there, but we're supposed to evolve it. - I think so too. - You know what I mean, so for you, I do resonate with that because that's something we all carry as black artists, but how did you find the balance between what that looked like for you? - Yeah. I think that when I said that, that was more so a critique of my state of mind. - Yeah. - And like, not understanding that black music is everything. - Like, black music is, we're black. - Yeah, so it's gonna be black music. And there'll be black people who love what you do, regardless. So I think that I have to change my perspective on what I think I bring to black music and feel free in that. - Yeah. - There's a lot of what we're talking about with Kalice. That's why I was thinking about Phoebe Dobson. Phoebe Dobson was one of the first albums that I bought. And she's a black artist, but her album would have been considered. I mean, she was like Averlavine. - Yeah. - She was like, I love it. You know what I'm saying? She's representing me in this space. And I like Averlavine. But I ain't never seen nobody doing that music that looked like me. So I think that's really, it's important. - It's powerful. - You know, black isn't a monolith. It is what it is. We bring what we are to it. - Yes. - So I really think that's important. - Yeah. - You also said in the Guardian that what's left out of a lot of the songs is the growth on the other side of a breakup. - Yeah. - So let's talk about that. What does the other side of growth look like to you? - Yeah. - And it doesn't have any specific breakup 'cause we know so many of our teachers. So many things. So if you can, you know, like a lightweight where you are now. - Yeah. ♪ Baby, this is cakey pola, yeah ♪ - Y'all know your girl is busy hosting my podcast, memorizing my scripts and running after my little one. - Breaking through this busy season requires equipment that's working as smart as I am. And that's why I'm obsessed with the new peloton cross-training tread plus. It's cross-training, re-imagined with features designed to help you reach your goals effortlessly. Giving personal trainer meets tech genius meets motivation station. Listen, this thing is so smart. Peloton IQ provides intelligent strength coaching, watching my every move in the best way possible. The movement tracking camera counts my reps, corrects my form, and suggests weights that'll challenge me at the exact right moment, helping me achieve more in less time. And don't even get me started about the swivel screen situation because it's everything. One minute, I'm conquering a 45 minute run. Then with one smooth spin, I'm flowing into a five-minute stretch. The personalized plan, so. That's the real showstopper. Peloton IQ creates these custom workout plans that have me feeling like the main character in my own fitness journey. Matching you with instructors who get your whole vibe, whether you need that extra push or just some real talk motivation. Let yourself run, lift, skull, push, and go. Explore the new peloton cross-training tread plus at onepeloton.com. - I think when I mentioned that, I was talking about the last song on my album Days, and I love that song so much because it does mention the heartbreak aspect. But then, I think sometimes you get out of situations and feel so much fuller, so much closer to yourself. Maybe that spark conversation with your friends and now y'all have a whole different layer to your relationship than you have before. Or maybe you feel smarter now, or maybe you eat in the foods you like. You forgot that you like to eat. I don't know, like those small things and I think sometimes we forget about once we attach ourselves to a person. So just looking at the other side of it and seeing what did I gain out of leaving this situation is something I like to do. - So important to always, I always talk about reframe is like, if in life there's never going to be a solid answer for much because there's not. You know, we wish it was always true in false, but it's not all perspective shifting. And if I have to live with myself every day and I have to decide how I feel about something, why would I pick the one that makes me feel like the one? - The worst, yeah. - That feels crazy. - I'm gonna pick the other scenario. - I'm gonna pick the one that says, and you guys, the one. - Exactly. - And look at how much money you set. - Right, you know, random (beep) look at the fact that you don't have to get a new hairdo. - Well, yes, you know, whatever it might be to pick yourself up. So I think that's really important. - Yeah. - I'm curious, how did you find your team? 'Cause I think with artists, that's a big difficulty, right? Like, when everything aligns, I think it not only does it align with time, but also a lot. was like I got my stuff together. - Yeah. - So what was your journey of like did you immediately go to labels, I don't know your situation. - Yeah. - What was your journey of finding your support system with the music? - It definitely took a while, early on. Like when I first started putting music, I don't sound cloud. That's when labels started coming into the picture very early on, and I had had two managers in that time, but I remember feeling like I haven't found like my clan yet, and I think, I don't know, the more time passes, the more I understand my needs and what I want to, but my recent, my most recent manager I've been with for like five years now, maybe six years, we met around the time, I was kind of going through this emotional transformation, and I remember thinking like I feel like this person was brought into my life for a reason, and I want to see it through, I want to learn to trust again, because I felt like I had been burned in music. - Really can be. - Yeah, yeah, so a lot of that was a healing thing for me and him, but now with that anchor and having been with him for six years, I feel like we're just attracting all the right people who are supposed to be a part of what we're doing, so. - And are you with the label or did you have a different, I don't know your opinion. - Yeah, so I've been science since I was like 16 to Atlantic, so that whole time. - Oh my gosh, I didn't learn it. - They gave me my first record, it's 12, yeah, they weren't good with me. I'm so happy. - It's a whole new thing for me, but I'm so happy. - For you, it worked out, for you. But you know, Atlantic always was really good with art, like the reason why I wanted to sign, it was a brandy, the soul, it was a lot. - Absolutely so, you know, it means it does make sense, but it's interesting because it's easy to blame the labels, and I do think labels can be tough, but in the day, it's about us in the system we have and how we can make the labels work with us, especially when you're an artist that's coming in and you don't necessarily have any. - And to one, exactly. And then don't have, like, there's some people, people try to call it a, what does the name they have for the industry plants? - Yeah. - You know, not necessarily the industry, but if you don't know anybody in the building, or if you don't have the money, you don't have no advocate, anybody could get lost. So how do you feel like you found what power is for you? You know, as a young black woman in this industry, navigating corporations, and also trying to, yeah, advocate for yourself. - That's a big question. - Stuff out here. - I think I'm still figuring it out, but I think having a team that you believe in and that you trust is everything. You can walk into any building and feel bullet proof, I think. So I think once I changed management and felt like I had a real advocate, and then my A&R at the time who signed me, who I've been with forever, that was my advocate, but then he left maybe a year ago now. - What was it? - Austin Rice. - Austin Rice. - Yeah, he saw the vision very early on. And like, I remember those people, with like nobody cared, nobody got it. That means the world to me. So, yeah, but you know, Atlantic went through a huge transformation, like a lot of labels to discuss you. - So what happened? - Yes. - What did they, did people get fired? - A lot of people got fired, and they just re-structuring, I guess. - Do you feel like it's no shade to those people, but do you feel like it's better now? - I think there's a better system for sure. And there's a better, I don't know, understanding of even where I sit, that I'm appreciative of. - I feel like a general artist's, artists are in a better scenario than they were before because of social media. I know everybody talks about what streaming doesn't do to it, but I just mean like building your brand, you know what I mean? And I really do credit, Rihanna, for that. I think her shift of using digital as a way to narratively tell her story and get the forefront of her brand. I think it's given so many people, and artists in general, no matter what they do, whether it's acting, music, whatever, tell their stories and be in front of it, and get their fan base to follow them, even if the labels aren't pushing them. - Right. - And I'm sure you, I mean, with you starting with SoundCloud, you know that probably to be true. - Right. - So I think it's better than how, when I first came in the industry, there was really no internet. I mean, it was internet, but it's like, you just want to somebody's website. - Right. - It's no more than that. - And it's almost like if the label didn't make it happen, you got lost. - Exactly. - Rihanna, I can go online and post this song right now. - Yeah, so I feel really hopeful for artists today, and just would say to any of them is just like, whether you're signed, whether you're not signed, just push your brand. Tell the story of you, no matter who you're partner with, or not partner with, 'cause that's really what counts. - There's no rules right now. It's not that, I think people are looking for. - Yeah, critics call you one of the best melody writers of our generation, and I completely agree. - Yeah. - Where do you think that comes from, and how do melodies show up for you in the studio? - That's just so, uh, melody is my. (beep) - Yeah, I don't like, when I first hear chords, are so important to me. I'll sit on chords for like an hour and be like, something not right, something not right. Like I just, I'm so, I don't know, the process is, I don't play, I'll need to. - But you could produce it. - I mean, if you do produce, you are producing, we're here, you talk like that. - Yeah, like, and then, yeah, I definitely give feedback, and like, I know what I wanna hear as far as being a producer, but melody is everything to me. Like when I hear a song of anybody's, I'm here melody first, and that's what draws me in. So, I feel like you know when you got a special one, or one that can live, if like you still thinking about it when you leave, and like, you can be listening to the beat for hours, and you still come back to that melody. And usually I, like, the thing that sticks is the first thing I do, but for some reason, I don't think so. Like, I had to have people telling me that, like, girl, you've been going for hours, but it was the first thing. - Wow. - So, that like, and sticks to a thing. - But that's the thing. - Yeah. - I mean, I know the person that I would love you to collaborate with, so I don't think you have, Salange. - I love Salange. - Yeah. - I would love, I mean, they already kind of forced to collaborate, so I would keep talking. That's how badly we all wanted it. But is there anybody on your wishlist? Like that you're like, I think me and this person would be cool. - Yeah. So many people, I love, um, tie the creator. - Girl, yeah. - Yeah. - You and Tyler would be jowl to the girls around. - I'm like his production. - It's incredible. - It's incredible. - I can hear it. - Yeah. - Love him. I love, um, I love Ty, Andre 3000. I love, we need to get him back. - Come on, come on, even if it's just a little flute. - Bang, I'll take that. - I was as an international player the other day. Would it be a great wedding song? - No, for real. - I know it's crazy. - I would just imagine you're gonna miss walking down an aisle family and friends. It's fly family and family and friends. You're like, they got so many wedding songs. - Girl. Okay, so definitely him. - Then I love so many of the girls right now. Um, Tyler, I love. - Yes. - Olivia Rodrigo, I love. - Olivia, you would cook something up. - Yeah. - She's also a great lyricist. - Yeah, she great writer. - Yeah. - Yeah. - She's amazing. - Yeah. - I love the animation of it all. - It's so many amazing artists right now. Don't she again, we have a song, but our love's it. - Oh my gosh, yes. - Just anybody who is themselves right now. - Yeah, that's what I'm into. - Yeah, everybody that you named, I think they very much have a clear sound and a clear storyline of what they're saying and so do you. And I'm so happy that you came on the show. I'm not letting you go just yet. We have to play a little game. - Okay, yeah. - It's called Off the Hook. It's like a little bit like word association. - Okay. - And pretty much I'm gonna give you a list of my songs. - Okay. - I'm gonna have a list of your songs. - Okay. - And you're pretty much just gonna say the word and we gotta sing the hook part of the song. - Okay. - So hopefully we remember it when we say the words. - Okay. - Okay, so I'm gonna go first. Magic. - When have I used that? - They could be wrong. The producers are wrong. - Magic. - Let me do another one. Here we go. - I'm sure I said magic. - Sticky. - Spinning spinning around around. Sticky, sticky up. - Sticky. - Hey. - Hey, got it. - Okay. - We'll give me one. - Okay. - And we act. - Bossy. - Oh. (laughs) Why can I remember all of their things? I know it, y'all, but my mind keeps thinking of something else. Oh my gosh. - Which again now? - I'm boss. - Yes. - Exactly, y'all. - Tryin' on the tune and you ain't paving in the tune. - Okay. - Hey, shut up with my jeweler while you suckin' lookin' stupid. I'm winnin' while they losein', get yo' 'cause he choosin'. - Okay. - But I didn't say bossy. - 'Til the end. - Y'all know the damn song. Damn. Moving on. I told you it was gonna be hard. - Oh my gosh. - Okay. - Skin. ♪ Homey now, skin tight ♪ ♪ Are you round, come by ♪ - That's my song. - Yeah. - Okay, I'm scared of mine. - Okay. (laughs) - Enemies. ♪ It ain't enough for me ♪ ♪ I gotta be honest, I want you to lust for me ♪ - Enemies come to some point. - Oh, it's not fun. (laughs) - Fresh? - Oh, boss. - Wait, what does it say? - I hate this. - I hate this. - Isn't it so tough that it's like, it's us. (laughs) - It's us. - Y'all know it. - It's embarrassing. - I rather be enemies. - Yeah. - There we go. Okay, um, glass, glass flows, me and me, walking right on these glass flows. My tippy, I'm told up, you know what, I'm thinking, I think I. So, I know that one, melody, a feature, I know that one. Okay, how do my last one, hands? Gone is a little mama like you want to, like I was laying on me. Definitely a man like a man, let me return the favor, do it hands-free. There we go. Finally. Because that was going to be crazy! That was tough. Thank you so much, Raven. You were amazing. And I cannot wait to be at one of the shows that you all came in. And you want to let me know, we can twin out. I love you. Raven's not noticed, she's been put in the work for years. From going viral to going deep in love, loss, and family. She's using her music to tell the whole truth. With her album Bird's Eye, she's showing us growth in real time. And proving, you don't have to fit into a box to break through. Hip your eyes on her, because Raven Laney is just getting started. And baby, this is Kiki Palmer. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Kiki Palmer. Lucas Siegel is our post-producer. Our producers are Lauren Hampton and Molly Nestor. Hillary Estee McGlockland is our executive producer. Production services provided by Evolution Media. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Kiki Palmer. For Team Kiki, my producer is Sharon Palmer. For Wondery, our Managing Producer is Olivia Fonte. Senior Managing Producer is Nick Ryan. And our executive producers are Emily Feldbreak, Erin O'Flarity, and Marshall Louie. (upbeat music)