Love Island’s Simba & Angelista: He Had Options, I Had None

I think you can't be in love and not be boyfriend and girlfriend. But we're seated here in the couch. Candles. No. It's kind of romantic. It was like the second or third night. He was like crying in my arms. I was getting scared that she was very quickly coming the only person in here for me. When was the first true test of your relationship? You okay? Yeah, and I'm good, sir, sorry. It was a bit of a sticky one. Everyone keeps saying I need to explore. At this point, it's only been just over a week. So I was like, maybe if I share a bed with her, then that will make me realize, okay, cool. Which again, looking back now, it just sounds like nonsense, truthfully. Honestly, in this, I wanted to talk to you individually. It looked like I was the loyal girl that wouldn't look left or right. If I could, I would have, I was forced to be in a situation just because I had not options. Well, there's a lot that we have to talk about. Let's talk. Right, we need to talk. We need to talk for sure. Look, pause with me for just a second. Now, whether you've been with us every single week since day one or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you, every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny, please just take a second and click the subscribe button. It costs nothing, but it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started. Let's start with a true check on how do you feel right now? I feel good right now. It's a bit so raw to be honest with you. Just because this morning I did a good morning Britain. I struggled to sleep. I was just, it was a mixture of excitement and nerves. It kind of still feels like a little bit of a dream, truthfully. But I'm overall right now emotionally. I'm good. I'm good. I'm happy. You know, I appreciate all of the transparency just in that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew with you coming in that there are a lot of heavy topics that we're going to go through. It's interesting. I even prepare myself emotionally before a guest comes in. I think what's going to make this conversation so unique is it's not just you. Exactly. Exactly. I want to even talk about how this came about because do you know how this came about? A little bit. Yes, I know. Yes, I know. But yeah, a little bit. A little bit. Okay. So we were in touch. Okay, yeah. Right. And then we said, okay, symbol. We want you to come on. Come on. There's a lot that we have to talk about. Let's talk. We need to talk. Right. I got a message from someone that I believe you know. I think I know how quite well. And her name is Angie. Angie, yeah. And Angie wrote down some things that she wanted to talk about. And when I read it, I said, we need to talk. These are all the topics that I've quite honestly have not had an opportunity to talk to anybody on this podcast. Wow. Yeah. And I think she's the perfect. She is the perfect person. And so Angie's here as well. Yeah, she is. Obviously. Yeah. You two men on Love Island. Which it's so interesting. Love Island is fascinating to me because internationally it's become one of the most popular franchises in the world. Yeah. And continues to be super successful here in the UK. Right. Yeah. So if we just talk about Love Island or we just stay in that space real quick is just, have you watched it back? I haven't, I haven't watched, I haven't really watched it back. No. And what's the reason why? Because some people come back and immediately. Yeah. Angie. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like for me, you probably would be a little bit of a hard watch. What do you believe the public most misunderstands about you? That's a good question. I don't know if it's misunderstanding or just complete lack of understanding from their point. And I don't blame them. Because again, you know, they can only take what they see. You know, I ended the day, I feel like every Love Islander says this, you know, you see an hour of 24 hours. Nothing can really ever prepare you for it, truthfully. And I feel like a lot of the people that only really understand that are people that have been on Love Island, you know, previously. I mean, off the Charlottesbuck and to Ex Islanders and stuff and they said, oh, you've done really well and, you know, you should be really proud of yourself. And I get why they can say that because again, they've lived it. They know exactly what goes on in terms of an emotional standpoint, you know. So what do you believe the public is lacking in their knowledge or awareness of you? I think in terms of me who I am, you know, who is Symba, I feel like maybe that's the bit that. The public don't really know. And, you know, since I've come out of the villa, I've done a few interviews. I've been a bit more open about, you know, Symba, who I am, you know, why I'm the way I am. You know, my personal life, my family life. I'm really even annoyed about it, truthfully, because in a weird way, I feel like it's better this way for me to come out and, you know, speak my truth and be myself. And, you know, being able to control my own narrative. So, I mean, I've been doing reality TV probably since you were born. Yeah. I've been doing it for a while. In the UK and the US. And one thing I've learned early on in reality TV, I was frustrated. I was like, you know what? I do 20 things, but you only portray me as this one thing. And I thought it was something against me, but what I realized is that with television, at the end of the day, it's entertainment and it's a story. Exactly, exactly. And the story, truly, has to be as simplified as possible. That's possible, yeah. And when you're dealing with a big cast, lots of contributors. Everyone gets one story, for the most part, maybe you get two, right? So, it's hard to see all the dimensions of someone on a television show. Yes. Nor does an audience even want all of that. Exactly. You know? That's very true. So, if you were then, let's say you got one dimension, then what do you think that one dimension was? How were you depicted? I feel like, you know, since I've come out, you know, a lot of my friends will say, you know, you kind of had the villain edit. That's what they call it, I think that's what shows you what they call it, the villain edit. I feel like it's fair to say. I feel like, you know, I kind of agree with it a little bit, in the sense that the things that I did were just magnified, you know, in a way. And it was like, there was so much more going on that maybe, you know, didn't really come to that. But at the same time, it wasn't always bad in there, you know, I managed to, you know, find Angelista. We had like an instant connection, you know, fell in love, made it all the way to the final, finished ferd, you know, so. Can I pause on that real quick? Yeah, yeah. So, you truly fell in love. Yeah, really? Yeah. Hand on the heart. Yeah. Like, she's my person. I'll find my person. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. So, you two are then what, together? So, right now, I'm not good with all the terminologies. So, yeah, fair with me. But, in terms of how I see her, I already see her as, you know, like, this is my girlfriend. I think for me, coming out of the villa, the only reason I didn't want to make. There was something that I did want to make it official in the villa, truthfully, because I was like, you know what? I'm going to leave here. I know I'm not going to. In terms of having time for any other women on the outside, like, that's just not happening, you know. I know in my heart, I know myself very well to the point that, you know, I can kind of tell when, you know, I might come out of here and all the attention. And she was even worried about dialogue a bit as well, bless her. But, you know, I was just. I remember having a day with myself in the villa and I was like, nah, you're going to leave here and, you know, you've got your person. There's nothing better. So, you are officially not girlfriend boyfriend? No, officially, yeah. But, you see her as that, and you're going to make it official at some point. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. And you're in love. Yeah, in love, yeah. I mean, it's crazy. Then that's a win. It is a win, it is. And that actually makes me better understand why everything else in terms of like, oh, I got the villain art, or the villain edit, or whatever it may be, is secondary to you. Yeah, yeah. Because. Exactly. It's like, you know, I'm. Literally I can I can genuinely just push that all aside. You know, I thought leaving the villa Because I can I didn't know I had little little bits of intel like here and there you know from like bombshell They'd come in and they say oh, you know You're the bad guy basically. You're the villain of this series and they would tell me that and I think leaving the villa was a little bit anxious. That's a little bit nervous in terms of oh my gosh Like you know what's gonna happen? Are people gonna hate me? You know are people gonna? Just have negative things to say about me, but it's literally been a complete opposite, you know since I've come out It's been it's been amazing. Yeah. Yeah, so that's interesting when some of the bombshells came in. Yeah, I guess they had been watching they've been watching so they told you they told me but at the end of the day It's like I can't really Folk I in that in that moment. I couldn't focus on what they were saying. I couldn't focus on you know Public perception because I think the day, you know, especially in an environment. I love Island like it's so intense like even trying to entertain Thoughts of what people might be thinking on the outside. It's too overwhelming. It's literally just you know what? This is what's in front of me. I'm in this environment and I've just got a deal with it had done and that was my pure focus Well, all right. Well, I tell you what we're going to unpack all of love island. Okay, cool. Like everything that I could pull out for you That happened that the public is not aware of right, but before we do that I want to focus on you if I could because I think this is part of The lack of understanding that you talked about is that we're all multi-dimensional We all have a history. We all have a journey, you know, that we've gone through and many people don't know To the extent of what your journey has been so I want to look at it because even in the research. I was like wow, I had no idea Symbol was dealing with with half of this. Yeah, you know, so if we can for sure for sure, but you grew up in North London North London. Yeah, but your parents are both from Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. So You were then what second generation? Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah, they were born there. Yeah, they came here Do you know the circumstances upon which they came here and why they came to the UK so my mom She came I think my dad came before my mom, but they were both late 90s. They came to the UK and My dad tells me a lot about you know coming here Late 90s he speaks so profoundly about Tony Blair my dad loves Tony Blair Okay, the point that he actually my middle name is Tony like You're named after Tony Blair Tony Blair. Yeah, yeah, yeah, my dad loves Tony Blair You know when he came to this country was He got straight took straight to work really he was doing loads of jobs working in McDonald's And my mom I know less about my mom, I would say in terms of you know when she actually came to this country And I feel like I kind of know why maybe I know less about her and probably know more about my dad From that standpoint, but um, yeah, they both came here. They they worked hard. They met each other I believe at university and then yeah, it got married two years later and yeah, now I'm here. And then you're here? Yeah, yeah. So are you an only child? No, so I've got a younger brother. I've got a younger brother who he's four years younger than me. So he's, yeah, he's turned 21. So I actually missed his birthday when I was in the villa. Oh wow. Yeah, I missed his 21st. Okay. Yeah. I'm sure you got him a gift, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did, I did, yeah. Oh, yeah, I did. This is good. This is good. So now you just mentioned something that I have to go back to. He said, now I know why I know less about my mother's story. Yeah. Yeah. Why? So when I was about nine years old, I'm, I'm going to diagnose the motor on your end disease, which is obviously a neurological illness. So in terms of the disease itself, from just more so, like a generic standpoint of disease itself, it's a very progressive, quite rapidly, I mean, it's very progressive. You know, don't call it me, but I think the prognosis tends to be two years. So it basically leads to loss of voluntary muscle, muscle function. So all the voluntary movements that means you can do day in day, or she can't do because those nerves are damaged. It meant that, you know, from, I'd say, literally 10 years old, you know, day by day, just unto deteriorate, and, you know, conversation, certain things just, she can no longer, she can no longer do, definitely from a conversational standpoint. You know, I'm very, I'm such an intrusive guy like, it's intrusive the right word, probably curious. Curious. That's the right word. A very, very curious. I'm picking my parents' brains, I love learning stuff, you know? And I feel like, yeah, I probably know a bit more about my dad just because we can have those conversations, whereas my mom obviously, she can't speak anymore. So she has an eye gaze that she communicates via, and, uh, bless her, she'll send me messages, she's got WhatsApp on the eye gaze as well, and, you know, she'll email me and stuff. But I think definitely when I was young, I used to fall bad in terms of, like, just asking her questions, because I knew how much effort she had to go to to actually tap things. So my dad would always be, like, my goal to, if I had, like, questions and stuff. And even till this day to be fair, like, he's always, um, he's always, like, passing the knowledge to me about, like, you know, um, uh, Zimbabwean history, African history, like, you know, his childhood growing up and stuff, um, family trees, family roots and stuff. Yes. He tends to be my goal to when it comes to that kind of stuff. So, uh, I didn't realize, so, so, so, at 10 is when your mother was diagnosed, how old were you when you last had a conversation with your mother? I don't think I could even answer, um, maybe nine, there I said, maybe even eight, I'm not too sure. In terms of just, like, actual, yes, it's so far, I don't even remember, yeah, I don't even remember. Yeah. Now that's profound. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just put, I don't even remember. That's profound. Especially for, uh, a little boy. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I think that the relationship between, um, a boy and his mother is incredibly unique, almost like the girl and her dad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Same, same here. No disrespect to my side, but yeah, I'm always, always wanted, always wanted. So then at eight, nine, you have your last conversation with your mother. At eight, nine, you probably can't reconcile. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why? What's happened? What's happening now? So, when you go back to that age, how did that impact you? I feel like, um, again, just even trying to recollect these things, it's, it's, it's difficult because it was such a long time ago because she, like her decline, um, like health wise was, it was very quick, you know, I think she had an appointment with an urologist that did some tests and by the time the diagnosis came, but maybe six months later, she was already in a wheelchair, you know, um, so it was, it was a lot definitely from a young age. And I remember at the time, I was just trying to comprehend how, I remember this actually, I was in year five and I had an assembly, um, I went to a Catholic school and, uh, we, like, reenacted, um, the stations of the crust and I got given the part of Jesus. And I remember my mom saying, uh, she wants to come to my assembly and at this point, she was in a wheelchair. I'm not too sure she had the, had the diagnosis yet, but I definitely didn't know what my own urine disease was or if she had it, but I remember she was in the wheelchair and there was a carer there as well. And I remember just, like, just praying she would not come. She's just purely because, you know, you're nine, nine years old. I'm looking at everyone's parents and, you know, they're all jumping up and down and they're clapping and they're smiling and they're talking and they're giving them hugs. And it was hard, you know, it was hard for me. And I remember battling my own fears, anxieties around everyone, seeing my mom, but also trying to protect her as well. And it's like protecting her in the sense that I didn't want her to feel that I was, like, ashamed or embarrassed or, you know, because I didn't want that for her because I didn't the day she's, she's my mom, you know, I love her regardless. But from a young age, a very young age, I could tell that, you know, it's, it's, it was going to be hard for me to navigate my emotions and it was going to be hard for me to speak on it as well. And it has been for such a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I can feel that we told that story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's your mom. You love her. But at the same time, you, at that age, eight, nine, you just want to be like everybody else. I think that makes you look different and different. Well, I'm actually a lot. Yeah. Hands up. Yeah. Yeah. So then at that age, your life changes, right? Yeah. Your family's structure changes. So who becomes your mother's care. So at that time, I think it was more so an agency. we are feeling bad. Dad got in contact with like a care agency. So we had carers coming in, but they were for like the odd, like free for two hours per day. You know, they'd come in and then we'd go home and then someone else would come in later and then go home, you know, it was just very much like chopping change. But it was more so from a care standpoint, more so on my dad that was kind of, yeah, very hands on. I don't think that time. - Okay, so if it's your father, right? Your father, you say when he came over, he was just doing every job that he could. So with your mother, the diagnosis, I would imagine she's not working. - Yeah, yeah. - So it's your, so financially. - So naturally, how does the household make it? - Yeah, it was difficult because, I'm wondering I didn't mention, I haven't mentioned this in anything I've done and everyone keeps telling me, I need to mention something, I need to mention this. So I'm almost actually a nurse. So after she finished studying, yes, she qualified to become a nurse and she speaks to me a lot about in terms of, you know, she falls at her career got cut short because she had so many dreams and aspirations. And I think at the point she got sick, she was nursing in a care home, which was managing a care home. And that's when she started to have a few falls at work and you know, she started noticing things at work. So she was, I think she took six months of work. And again, as a kid, you don't really notice from a financial perspective, what's actually happening. But now when I look back, you know, there's certain things that I definitely become more apparent to me, you know. I remember, I think they had to end up selling her car 'cause my mom and dad had a car each so they ended up having to sell her a car. I think as well, like, you know, just like the meals we were eating, it became a little bit more stripped back. You know, my mom used to cook like chicken casserole, she used to love the chicken casserole, you know, and you come in and you see all these ingredients, and all these black colors. And I remember one time I was looking back on my gosh, but I remember literally saying to my dad, like, I'm tired of eating rice and stew. You know, like, I'm literally tired of eating rice and stew. And like, God bless him, you know, the next days that I'm making lasagna for me, you know, me and my brother, 'cause he just wanted to eat, I think he felt bad. I could tell he felt bad. But, you know, again, in the moment, when you're a kid, you don't realize these things, you don't realize the hardships your parents are facing, the adversity, but that's why I, the, in terms of, from a reflective standpoint, I feel like it's important for me to, just sometimes I like to just sit back and just reflect a little bit on these things. - Yes, yes. And I think that that's a very descriptive explanation. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You know, I could see it. - You can see it, yeah. - I could see your mom and their cooking. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Lots of things. And then, all of a sudden, your father's just like, well, I look, this is what we got. - This is it. - Yeah. - And I'm microwavable pizza. Sorry, I forgot that as well, every day off the school. - Okay. - Okay. - All right. I can see it. - Yeah. - Do you remember the conversation you had with your father when he told you that he was splitting? - Yeah. I had it first with my mom. - Okay. - My mom told me first. - How did that go? - My dad was out of the country. He was in Zimbabwe at the time. 'Cause he goes back home just to go see family and have his time. So I think my mom used that as an opportunity. She told me to come back home. I remember her saying, you need to come back home. You need to come back home. It's before I started like uni. And then, we had a conversation. And she basically said, yeah, me and your dad was separating. But my brother, at the time, he was dropping like little hints here and there. He was saying stuff like, it isn't always. It isn't, what did he say to me? He used to say stuff like, your mom and dad, there's more to it or not everything as it looks. When I'd ask him, how is everyone at home and stuff? But me and my brother literally were so close, but were just very different people in a way. He processes things in his own way. So when he was dropping these little hints and stuff, it wasn't really hitting me. I wasn't really processing it all. But, yeah, that conversation with my mom, she basically just said to me that, yeah, like, yeah, it's done. I mean, you know, that's done. And what did you say? It didn't hit me. It just didn't hit. I think I said, okay, but I said, you know, it deep down, I said, no chance. Yes, you know, you just didn't even accept it. I didn't really accept it. No, I didn't even probably thought, you know, this is maybe just kind of how she's feeling in the moment. And, you know, with time, maybe there are fixed things or maybe she might realize that, you know, that this or everything will just come back together again. Yeah, I was very naive, very naive. I definitely distanced myself for sure. I don't know if I don't know if people know it is, but I definitely did. My brother, he's the only one that I probably know it is. Okay, you just introduced yourself from family and friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure, for sure. Like, my mom's got a lot of siblings, I've got a lot of aunties and, you know, they've got a lot of kids. Yeah. So on paper, it's a very big family, you know, like I've got a lot of cousins, a lot of first cousins as well. But I've got to the point, you know, people like message me and stuff and I'd leave them undelivered for months. I just didn't want to talk to anyone. I didn't want to talk to anyone. Is that also in the time where you became your mother's primary care? Yes, okay. I think that happened first. Okay. So that happened first and then me becoming my mom's, yeah, primary care, I would say that happened after. That happened when I came back from uni. So at this point, I'm still in uni. I'm still kind of running away from my problems a little bit. I'm not addressing even head done, but I'm angry and I'm hurt. And then I'm using, you know, distractions as a way to kind of take my mind off things and to kind of ease, you know, how I was feeling, easing the pain a little bit, but it just kept piling up, it was getting worse. Of course. And what are the distractions? I was going out, you know, I was, I was partying, I was drinking. Yeah, you know, like just girls, you know, I was, it just took my mind off everything. That's kind of what helped me just, you know, forgot about everything else that was going on. So you then became your mother's primary care? Yeah, yeah. So how do you do that? Because you have to leave school, you have to leave school for that. So I graduated, okay. So at that point, I graduated now, I've come back home. That's about 2024, May, June. And I've seen, you know, there's stuff that my brother, the little innuendals that my brother's been putting out in terms of my parents was I didn't really actually know until I came back from uni. And my mom said her side, had a few brief conversations with my dad just because there was definitely a lot of resentment towards him. And I was, I was like back and forth between picking whose side am I on? You know, I love them together, but first and foremost, I need to learn to love them as individuals. I feel like that's when I became, you know, more at peace with the whole idea of, you know, my parents aren't together. And once I was able to accept that, that's when Karen and my mom became a little bit easier. Again, it's even hard just to be in the house in general because they're both there at this point. Yeah, that's what they live in the same house. Yeah, that's that, yeah. What, hold on for a second. So they're living in the same house. They're separated or divorced at this point, separated. Still not technically divorced. But yeah, I know the papers are coming through, but yeah, they're all separated. Yeah, they're separated. They're not communicating. Not communicating. And then that means your father then is stopped caring for your mom. Stopped completely, completely. So she, without you and your brother. Yeah, there's no one. There's no one. We've got, there's, we've got a team of carers now. And to be fair, they have been there, but there's days, you know, where it might be me and my brother. There's definitely days where we'll be at least one of us, but the days where it could be both of us, you know, you think at Christmases, Boxing Days, that type of thing. Okay. But yeah, dads, yeah, completely out of that. That's a tough situation. Yeah, that's tough. Because also too is I could see, I mean, I'm trying to put myself into that, right? But I could see myself being resentful at my father. You see, yeah, that's how it started. Yeah, that's how it started. Yeah, it took time for me to really try and, you know, process things in the care, if you could, because I think carers are under, there's a lack of understanding. Yeah, 100% for what a carer goes through. And the impact, I think, especially as a child caring for a parent. Yeah, what are all the things that you had to do for your mother? Everything, but in terms of that personal care, that's the only thing that she's always been adamant that she doesn't want me and my brother to do, you know? And I always respect that. And yeah, I feel like that's something that would never ever change. But everything else, yeah, we do. So what was everything? So everything, you know, transferring her from the bedroom, to the living room, going to appointments with her, administer medication, administering a water. You know, cleaning, so she's got a tracheostomy, so she, which is basically like a ventilator. So in terms of looking after that piece of equipment, cleaning that, everything was like hoisting her, turning her in bed, using that help and a set up on the eye gaze, everything, picking up medication from the pharmacy, everything, preparing food, and so what has been the impact on you and your mental health being her care? I think for me, trying to process my mom's illness is one thing, but also trying to do the best to make her proud. If I'm a young age, especially with football, I think football is the thing that really affected me, because if I'll go out and have a game on a Saturday and not play well, I feel like I was letting my mom down, because I want to be able to give her the life that she deserves, I want to be able to make her proud, I wanted to see me playing on TV, you know, and then I would have a bad game and I would lose it like in my room, and in a weird way, I think it kind of came out a little bit in love Island a little bit, like you see aspects of me like storming off and stuff and having a little tantrum and amount, like I do that, you know, I've been doing that since I was a kid, and I'm not saying that's the reason why, but I think I've seen a couple clips on it, it's like I recognize this, you know, I used to do this when I was a kid, like when things weren't going my way and I felt like I was letting especially my mom down, it's being my room huffing and puffing, I'd be like, you know, I can't do anything right. And then that same question you asked me, now it's given me so much more perspective on life, it's made me realize, you know, what's important in life, it's made me, it's brought me to here, funnily enough, you know, I feel like, I was saying to myself last night at this line, just kept going under my head, people think that, you know, I'm here because of love Island, but I'm here because of my mom, and the reason I'm here because of my mom is because the choices that I've made from the day she got diagnosed, that's what's led me here. Everything I've done, I've just tried to make her proud, you know, I made her a promise about two years ago, no a year ago, she was in hospital, I can't remember exactly what was going on, I think it was fibroids, don't call it me, but I know she was in a really bad way. And for me, I thought that, you know, it wasn't looking too great, you know, again, that the same feeling that I had when she was 14 when she said to my dad, look after the boys, now my dad's out of the picture, I kind of felt that same energy now at 23. And I remember saying to myself, we're saying to her, I need you to keep going because I'm going to do something great, like I can feel it, like something's lingering, like I know something's, there's going to be a happy ever after after this, you know, she gave me a smile as best as she could. And that's why I say the only reason I'm here is because of my mom getting diagnosed in 2012. I understand, and I find it so interesting, you didn't navigate a lot of this with your father in the house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're the older brother as well. Now I can see that there was a drive, a hunger, that's the way that's in you to achieve something. Yeah. Yeah. Something has to be. Yeah. Is this part of how you decided to go on, love, I like, and how did that come about? How was, who reached out to whom? So it was always like a joke in my, in my friendship circle, I'd say, you know, we kind of used to watch love Island as kids me and my friends. And it always be like, you know, that, that, that could be you one day type of thing. And I always said no, football, football is the only thing I'd ever do, you know, imagine missing a whole summer of preseason, you know, to sit on a, sitting in a villa, talking to girls all day in the sun, like, you know, I should be training, you know, I've got, I've got dreams to achieve and stuff, you know, and to change my mom's life. And it was a girl that one of my friends from uni, she just sent it to me, like the application link one time on, on DM and, you know, you should do this, like, I could see you doing this. And I was like, 'cause everyone keeps saying this to me, like, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe this is, I don't know, you know, but I said to her, like, there's no chance. There's like a million people that I apply for this show every year applied and, yeah, yeah, no. When you get there, okay, I know that that first kind of lineup is everything because you don't know who else is on the show, you don't know who they are, what they look like, et cetera. Right? I think also what must be the case, I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about this, but I'm going to say that it's gotta be, and you tell me I'm wrong, is if you are black, if you are Asian, and you are on this, this, this show, you're looking to see how many other black people are there, how many other Asian people, how many other people of color, whatever it may be, you know, so, hey, did you do that? And then when you're looking, what are you thinking, what's your initial thoughts looking at everyone? Yeah, for sure. I think, for me, in that cost, the OP, Sam Raj, Jazz, Priya, and Angie, and Mika, so it's quite, those are quite a few to be fair, but for me, from a relateability standpoint in terms of life, Sam Raj was, I think, we're not the first, when I say the first, it took me a while to connect to a lot of people, but he was the first out of that initial group in terms of relateability, and we started talking about life, and he has his own battles and adversity that he's gone through in his life, and I open up to him about my mum and my brother and my family dynamic, so we were able to like, click quite well in terms of that standpoint, but obviously, prior to that, if we're talking like first, it was Angie, yeah. So you walked in, you saw Angie, and did you think, okay, that is it, that's it, that's it. 'Cause remember, I came in as a bombshell, so I really saw her on my TV, that's true. And I really knew, and then when I heard she was in Barbara, I was like, yeah, come on, guys, this is too, what is this at this point? What is this? You might as well just call it a day here, I was just too good to be true. I genuinely felt like this is just too good to be true. What was your impression, so when you saw her, what were you thinking? Just like, wow, definitely, I remember the first thought, I was nervous, I thought, wow, she's even better looking in person, there's so many things that, you know, I couldn't really tell from from a TV screen that now I'm looking at, I'm like, wow, like, you know, just, just like the poise, that's the way that I always used to describe it, it's just so much poise, there's just so much elegance, grace, the way that she just like conducts herself, you know, especially in group settings, I always say to her, you know, you're not the loudest voice but you're the voice that's heard. And for me, that describes my perfect woman, like my part, my future, part nine in terms of one of the major characteristics that I want, you know, you're not, you're not the loudest voice, you're the voice that's heard. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I tell you, from everyone that I know that talks about, you know, that talks about every all the participants, when Angie's name comes up, it's always the most mature, you know, this, this, this was, to your point, the voice is always heard. Always heard. Yeah. Yeah. What do you believe she thought of you the moment that she first saw you? I see the spot. What do you think she really thought? You know, she's not, she's told me a few things now, I've seen a few things as well in terms of after our first conversation, you know, I think she said immediately, yes, you know, immediately. Yes. I think in terms of like her type and stuff, I kind of fit, you know, that kind of, from like a physical standpoint, anyways, you know, what she's told me, I've heard anyways, you know, like I'm her type. Okay. And I think with Angie, it normally takes people quite a while to get to know me, to kind of understand how my brain works, but she picked up very quickly, which is a little bit scary, to be honest. Okay. Yeah. Do you know what her biggest concern about you was when she met you? And just initially? Yeah. When she met me initially, I think she thought that I would just be doing, just be talking to this girl, talking to that girl, like I just, I'd be a player, you know, I'd just be having fun, I wouldn't really be genuine, which I understand because I've been having these kind of problems, even on the outside, before Lava Island, you know, girls would say that to me, you know, the wondering I, you know, they did, I've had, I've had it, yeah, basically all my life from, from, from women, they'd always tell me these things. So, do you think that's what she thought or you know for sure? That's, that's what I think. But you don't know for sure. I don't really know, I don't really know. On that note, how about we ask her, the boss, how about we ask her, I need to know the, the answer to this. Yeah. - Okay, yeah, that's pretty much all right. - Hey Paul, we've got a surprise for you. - You do. All right, who's it from? - It's love from your listeners. We need to talk, sponsored by Claude Byanthropic, the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. So we thought we'd use it to make Paul something special from you. Using Claude, we analyzed every comment left on all 102 YouTube episodes, and then prompted it to turn that data into something beautiful. This design is 1010. We talk to each other, 6,021. That's how many ongoing conversations were sparked in the comments of your episodes. Wow, thank you for giving us the confidence to be as open with each other as your guests are with you. That is a lot of conversations. And that, I would say, has been my biggest surprise about we need to talk is how many people continue the conversation from the episode into their lives with people they love, with their friends, with their family, with their partners, and how those conversations then help them to change their behavior. And so that's all I can ask. - For Delving Deepa, get started with Claude.ai/talk. That's Claude.ai/talk. - Angie, first, thank you. - Thank you so much. For being here. I was talking about at the top that, initially, this was just going to be a simple conversation. - Yeah. - I got a little message from you, right? And it was so compelling that I thought, okay, we have to have you here, all right? But we'll talk about that in a little bit. But right now, we're in love Island. - Okay. - At you two, just meeting. - Oh, God. - Okay. And I just asked Simba a question that I need to hear from you what the true answer is. So when you first saw Simba, I just asked him, what was your truly? Like, what was your number one concern about him? Because I think he fit your type. - Oh, yeah. - But what was of concern to you? - I think it was just the level of seriousness. Yeah, I was like, I don't know how serious he is. Especially with this environment I'm thinking, I don't know if he's really gonna take me in. I don't know. You might say he's interested, but I don't know to what extent. Is it just like, just on a vibe, like you just want to flak kind of vibe or like, do you want to go deep on? So that was my concern. I don't know if he was gonna play around or not. - Okay, all right, that's fair, that's fair. Did he feel like he was, I mean, I'm assuming you thought he was attractive, right? Did you feel like immediately he was the one and the only one? - Yeah, for me, I don't know that instant connection was crazy. Like that first conversation, I haven't felt like that in a long time and I've been single for like four years and I've been on dates and it just, it never hit like that in person for the first time. - Really, even with the cameras. - Even with the cat, you literally forget about them. - I forget about it. - Okay. - When we was talking it literally just felt like everything else was dark and it was just us. - Okay. - It was crazy. - So how, you know, when you're having this first conversation, right, I know you have to try to work out, okay, your honest show is the person serious, right? Is this real? Are they really into me, right? How do you do that in a conversation like that? - I feel like for me, I just gauge like how vulnerable are you willing to get? 'Cause I'm the type of person, I don't like surface level conversations. I feel like it's just the waste of time and I think it was like the second or third night in bed. He got really vulnerable to a point where like, he was like crying in my arms. Just talking about his mom and obviously, what he wants to do for her. And he just started crying on for him. It's literally been like three days. And from that point onwards, I was like, oh, okay, it's deeper. Like this guy's like, I, he, like, I don't know, is it fair to say that you felt like I was your save space? I don't know, it just felt like he felt safe in that moment and I felt like I wanted to be there in that moment. And from then, it was like something that was like an unsaid connection between us. Like no one else knew that but us. So it was like a, yeah, okay. - Yeah, and I'm good, sorry, sorry. - Yeah, it was deep. And from then, I was like, yeah, like, he's serious. So let me, yeah. - Let me be. Let me, let me see, let me see, let me take him in a little bit. - Can we just touch on that conversation? And the reason why I want to touch on it is because from what I understand, it was not aired. - A lot of our conversations in beds were really deep, really vulnerable. Like beyond beliefs. - Yeah, yeah, we used to have. - And it's not aired, wasn't aired at all. - Our conversations were great. Like we would stay up, the lights would go off and like we was always told where the last ones would go to sleep. We'll be up two hours after the lights are out, two, three hours talking. - Just talking, just talking. So what was it then? 'Cause it seems like that conversation, something happened in that conversation that cemented you to. Like perhaps you've never been close to anyone else. - Yeah. - Like, can you share what you talked about? - He started it off, to be honest. - I think I was getting scared, basically. I was getting scared that it was only, I mean, it was day four, I think, the fourth day. And I was getting scared that she was very quickly becoming like the only person in here for me. - So when the sleepover comes, you two have already, in essence, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but almost like committed to each other. Is that too strong? - Look, I mean, it was a underlying understanding. Like we knew under the surface what it was. - It was an underlying understanding, yeah. - Yeah, underlying understanding, but yeah. We knew he are. - Okay, here. - But I knew that our story wasn't gonna be a situation where we can just roll with that and just, you know, I'll be offered the fairies. - Okay, when was the first true test of your relationship? - The hideaway situation, it was a bit of a sticky one. I just felt like I understood you to a level where it's like, I know you, and the hideaway thing, it was just like, like what? - So can you explain for anyone who didn't watch, right? - Yeah. - But they want to understand how this was a test for your relationship, what happened at the hideaway? - So I went away, I think it was for tonight, to the sleepover villa, and at that time, I was getting to know Miikah a little bit. And in the sleepover villa, you know, you try to explore the connection and we came back. - I mean, I don't want to put you on the spot. - Yeah, yeah. - But how do you try to explore its connection? - What are the activities? - In love, in love for the connection. - In love island terms, you know, exploring connections is like you kiss basically, and you try to, you know, kind of just see if there's any feelings there, you know. Again, this isn't how I'll operate on the outside, but you know, love island is its own unique environment where people kind of, you know, feel the urge to really interact with one another, especially in a physical way. So yeah, we kissed in the sleepover villa, but we didn't end up sharing a bed that night, because she got picked by Chidi to share her bed and stuff. So she decided to sleep with Chidi that night. Like she said, you know, there's another opportunity, if another opportunity comes up to share a bed or whatever, then, you know, she'd be happy to do so. So then we came back to the main villa now, and I was coupled up with Angie at the time, but you can only go to the highway with someone you're not in a couple with. So given that we didn't get the opportunity to do so on the sleepover villa, you know, I thought, okay, why not share a bed with me, cause just to see again, where my head's at, give me some more clarity, because it's like, for me, me and Angie were so good at that point, and I was a little bit like, you know what, everyone keeps saying I need to still explore at this point, it's only been just over a week. I've been, I haven't even been in the villa for two weeks yet. So it was still early, and I kept thinking, like how can I explore this connection more to see how I really feel? Cause I kissed me, but I still don't really feel anything. So I was like, maybe if I share a bed with her, then that will, you know, spark something. Or maybe that might make me realize, okay, cool. actually really. like her, which again, looking back now, it just sounds like nonsense, truthfully. Honestly? Yeah, it's nonsense. It's nonsense. Alright. So I've got, I have to ask. So, what would you take on? I will speak to this. Like, genuinely, I didn't have any words when he told me that that was his idea. Like, it seemed way out of character for him. Just based on our private conversations. I was just like, I don't know, like, it was, it was very strange to me that, like, because it didn't even make sense, because I was like, this is your first night back. And then you want to not sleep, you've been away for three days. Your first night back, obviously, for no longer for three days. And then, was it three days or two nights? I don't even know. I haven't thought that three days. And then you want to come back and then be in the hideaway and I'm slept by myself knowing that you're with someone else. Yeah. That was insane to me. I couldn't even say anything. Like, in an amazing, beautiful world, I would have custom out. But I just could not speak. Like, there was no words at all. There was was just, like, little tears coming out because I'm like, this can't be. So you were hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Overly hurt. Yeah. Did you feel like the underlying understanding was no more? Yeah. I did feel like, I don't know. I just felt like, maybe I was just like, that was just a me thing. Maybe it was just my own understanding. Maybe he's just, I don't know, I'll put the fairy somewhere. Okay. Simba, did you know how hurt Angie was? Yeah. But, you know, me wanting to go to the hideaway of Miko and she started crying. And I feel like, the first time I've seen you got actually. Yeah. And then I started to realize, okay, like, you know, this guy actually likes me. Do you feel any level of responsibility being a black couple on Love Island? While you were on the project. Um, for me, I would say yes. Um, because I know there's a lot of younger black girls watching, older black women watching. So for me, I was being myself and I dealt with the situations just naturally how I, how I felt in the moment. But then there was times where I was like, oh, like, I should have probably went a bit harder. Because it's like, I know, like, probably people watching, like, they probably wanted that for me to go hard and for my situation to be like, you know what? Stand up for yourself as a black woman. Be strong in a sense of like, don't take, you know, foolishness kind of thing. And then obviously the way I dealt with like the first situation for instance, it was just like, yeah, it was. So I did kind of have that in my mind where I was like, I felt like, yeah, I should, I could have went a bit harder. I feel like you probably had it worse. Yeah. Um, for me, I think. I remember when my dad came on family day, and this is actually related to Anja, he came on family day, and again, that often they aired this. But he said to me, he basically gave me an inkling of like, what's to come that outside the noise, you know, there's going to be some hate and stuff, especially from black women, you know. He kind of, he didn't say it explicitly like that, but he kind of like, dropped it, you know, kind of just put the seed in my head for me to like, actually that just what he's saying. He basically said to me that you have to understand that Angie's a black woman, and you know, at this point me and Angie were good, we were in a very good place. But he said, you have to understand that, you know, social media, like Angie said, that there's women that are looking at Angie like a sister, you know, like a daughter, you know. And they feel, they can't exactly feel what she's feeling, but, you know, they're empathizing a lot to Angie's situation. And you're a black man as well, you know, so you have to, you just basically to me like, brace yourself. And I think that moment, that's when they kind of clicked for me, that okay, there is extra pressure, especially, you know, in our couple, black man, black woman, and what we're representing as well. What we're with love Island to is what was the moment for you, Simba? The moment where you fully trusted, fully trusted, Angie. The recoupling speech, the last recoupling speech that she did before, basically the last one of the whole season, she stood up, black dress, when black dress. And I remember standing literally like diagonally opposite her, and she was in flow state, like some of the stuff she was saying, like, only my person would be able to say these things. And the fact that she was saying it, not just to me, but I know him just to all the islanders, the whole country, you know, she was speaking about, like, me being God fearing, and me opening up to her, and being vulnerable, and us loving each other, and me being like a part of home for her. I was just like, whoa, like, she, to be fair, all her recoupling speech is a really good, but that one, yeah, that's the one I'll never forget. I just remember, I didn't know where to look. I was just like, whoa, like, she just keeps keep going and going and going and going, and that my face was hurting from smiling. And, you know, and I don't know if they, I'm guessing they had to obviously like, edit it, because it was like, that was a lengthy amount of time. Was it? And all the boys were like to me, wow, like, you know, Angie, like, that was one of the greatest speeches I've ever heard, and I remember saying to the boys, it's not even my birthday. You know, like, imagine what you're going to do on my birthday when she's standing up and having to speak about me, and that's how she made me feel. She made me feel like it was my birthday, so imagine the wedding. Imagine the wedding. Crazy, and it was going to be ridiculous, yeah. I loved it. Angie, what was the moment that you fully found trust in Simba? Um, I think it was the day after you came right from Casar, and he, he called it a day with Mara the next day. And when I was hearing his behavior in bed with her, like, the day they came back from Casar that night. Like, he turned over, like, he just no talking, no touching, no nothing. I was upstairs. So I didn't see what was going on in the bed downstairs. That was the first night that they spent together in the villa in bed. So I was just a bit like, oh, that was going on. They talking like was. I still hadn't really gauge the situation because I don't know anything. So then when the next day I'm hearing that that was the case, and he was going to call it a day. I was like, oh, after one day. After one day, he hadn't even been 24 hours. We were doing a day of just the night, basically. It was literally just the night and then the night. In the morning. Came back in the night and by the morning, I just said, yeah, it's done. Yeah. So for me, that was like a big telephony. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. He's like serious. Like, he knows like what he wants for real, because he got to drag it on and done the whole triangle limbo situation. Oh, I don't know you are, but like, yeah. And then like, literally the next morning, it was like done like. So I was just like, okay, I can, I can trust that he knows what's what. Like the pennies dropped now for him. Yes. Yes. Okay. So now you both finish third. Yeah. Okay. I see here that the season 13 finale had 1.1 million viewers. And countless millions viewed clips, et cetera, right? So still incredibly popular. Were you surprised that you came in third? It's the question. I wasn't surprised. He weren't surprised. Long key, we was like, okay. Like, definitely not winning. But more so, like, we was like second, maybe. But we was like third, like, we was like, to be honest, because even like, Jazz was saying to me like the day before she was like, you're definitely going to be second. And I was like, not really, because I was like, that's really down to race now. Like, really and truly, I don't know. For my understanding, I'm like, do black people vote like that for real? For real? Like, just based on that. I was like, yeah, we'll probably just be bad. Yeah. So you thought third, but it sounds like you wanted to place this up. Yeah. Yeah, just knowing our connection. What was you going to say? I feel like a big telltale for me was all the ex islanders coming in. I'll never forget that day. You know, all the ex islanders, every single person that we've lived with, they've seen our highs, but they've also seen our lows as well. But the most important thing is, is 24 hours worth, you know, so they're living every single day with us. And we didn't get any votes. And I remember the vote was who doesn't deserve it. to get to the final. Oh, doesn't. Yeah, yeah, basically, he doesn't, he doesn't decide to get to the final. And I think there was some couples on like eight votes, seven votes. Every, every, basically, every couple had at least two votes. The next up was, yeah, two. And those are the winners, Julian and Renzo got two. But we had none, you know? So for me, I feel like that, that could have, like in terms of from the public perspective, you know, if I'm watching that member of the public, I'm thinking, okay, maybe cool. There might not be my favorite couple, but at end of the day, these are the people that are spending the most time with them every day. And they think that they're not worthy of getting any votes to a reason why they shouldn't get to the final. Okay. So it sounds like you were hopeful that you could have won. I was hopeful, but like I said, we knew we weren't going to be in the middle. Realistically, that was just hopeful thinking. Me and Cavalich, she said, Lorenzo Ule, winning a second is a flip of a coin. Really, she said, me and Cavalich said, flip of a coin. Even the percentage, I think we missed that by what 1.1% or something. Yeah, I was close. Yeah, very close. It's very close. That's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. So now, a question I asked earlier, but now, Angie, I have to come to you, right? This is not to put you on the spot, but it is to put you on the spot. Okay. Did you find love? Yeah, yeah. Without question. Without a question. Without a question. Without a question. Okay, all right. I love this. I love this. So you found love in the villa. Still in love now. All right. So where do we stand right now? Because we touched on it earlier. But now that we're here now, so we have two lovers sitting awfully close. Okay. Where do we stand right now in terms of our coupling? Like I said, I think it's up to him. Well, I think you can't be in love and not be. Yeah, for sure. For sure. That doesn't make sense. And that'd be what? And not be boyfriend and girlfriend. Yeah. So you can't be in love and not. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So sure. Yeah. What's that about? Jamine? I think. I agree. And she knows this. You know, outside world and being in that villa, it's like, it's like polar opposites basically. Yeah. In a sense. You know, it's just time, Paul. I think it's just. Oh my gosh. Every time. There's no time to go on a date and just like, phone's down and just and just look at her and just take her in and take just take us in. There was a moment where we was like, you know what tonight, we're actually just going to sit and watch Netflix. Yeah. Put down our phones. Yes. And and just have us time because since coming out, it's just been go go go go go. There's been no time. No time. No time. But you know, it's interesting. He's then we're seated here on the couch, right? Yeah. Candles. No. It's kind of it's kind of romantic. Kind of romantic. Right? No. We have had Angie just say it's up to me. It's up to him. What he wants to do. I don't know if he wants to. I feel like you was taking time because you wanted to plan something. Oh, I just want to go to work some serious ways. I had a conversation with my brother last night. You know, I came back from football late last night and I had one of my like, you know, those moments, I'm just like, I'm having a puffing and stuff. I felt that on FaceTime. I was like, do you want five minutes? Yeah. And I said to my brother, I want like, when am I going to find a time to make my girlfriend? Like, I just need to just, I need to do this. I'm a brother. Like, you don't need to force you into it. I was like, I know, but you know, like, I want to do this now, you know, because again, I'm thinking about her and I don't want it to feel like you just said, how can I be in love and not be official? Because I had a feeling these feelings might start to see pin. I don't want that feeling. I know how I feel, you know, I love you. And you know, she's met my whole family. But again, it's just crazy. I wish I had a conversation with my brother last night. I'm telling, we've lived our life on camera for so long. Yeah. I just want to have our moment. The private moments are like everything to us. No, seriously. Thank you so much. Thank you. I mean, it's it's it's it's it's been epic. Come on. Come on. I'm just talking to him. I'm sorry. All right. I can't believe I'm saying this. We are on the pathway. We could see it. The light is at the end of the tunnel to one million subscribers. And so here's what I want to say is if you're already subscribed, thank you so much. We appreciate it. If you're not yet subscribed, I ask you to do so. Why? Because signals to the world that these conversations matter. So if you're not subscribed, please do so. If you are, thank you so very much. I appreciate you spending some time with me. Yes. This came about last minute. Oh yeah. This conversation. But when you wrote to me and I read what you wanted to talk about, it's a topic that I've always wanted to talk about here. But never had anyone to do it with. Yeah. Wow. Thank you. Honestly, thank you so much for even giving that time of day. I don't even think you words. So as much as you want to go into this, if you could, maybe what we should do is if you could explain to everyone watching, what it was that you wrote to me. So it was just more so basically just my experience as a black woman on love Island. I felt like my experience was it did feel lonely sometimes compared to like other female love Island contestants. I felt like the desirability, it's always really been a topic. So it wasn't like I was walking into love Island being like, oh yeah, I'm going to be desired by everyone. I knew there was a risk in that. But it's just living it. It just hits different. So my thing was like I walked in there. It was hardly desired. And then when someone finally walked in, that was like going in for me straight away from the outside. He said Angie straight away came inside same energy when I had when I finally had that the one time. I just felt like now my narrative had to be a situation where he's the player. And I'm sitting around and I'm just waiting for him to finish his dog days when in reality, it's like I had no options for real. I wasn't given like they gave him all the options. Like, you know, he had sleepover, opportunity, he had, you know, people was interested. Multiple people was interested in him. Like not even like just when he walked in so many people like literally the next one that was like, yeah, respectfully, Angie, I'm going to also get to know Simba. So there's like, kind of have one thing. So it just felt like, okay, he has his options, but like, okay, can we bring in someone that I can also get to know when, you know, test our connection on my side, because now it just looks like I'm just sitting here looking like a fool when it's like, it's not by choice. I see it. Like my hand was forced to sit here and because like, who else is I'm not going to speak to someone who's not interested in me just for the sake of like trying to explore like no one's interested in me and no one came in interested in me. I was actually sitting there and I was thinking hold on, but like I had a really difficult experience like in times of just my experience just as a black woman and I haven't seen anyone else do it. That's how I was like, let me, let me say something because I really need to just get it off my chest. Like I was talking to my mom and I was just like, no, like, that wasn't right. What happened? Like, 'cause now I look crazy, like, you know what I mean? But yeah, it was, yeah, you get it. Yeah, not fully, fully. Thank you for that. When you wrote that to me, the reason why I was so interested to talk about it and the reason why I have wanted to talk about this topic is because I don't think, I know, not only in the UK, in the US, in many other countries. There is, I would call it a horrendous problem with how black women are treated on television. Yeah. Now, that's not to say black men are not treated horribly or white men, white women, et cetera, certain religion, certain nationality, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is a conversation about black women. Yeah. And we're going to keep it at that. Yeah. I know. Some people are going to say, oh, Paul, no, no, no, this is about black women. Yeah. And you touched on what I think is one of this underlining issues that I see in the, because I'm working in the US and the UK. Yeah, right. And that word is desirability. Yeah. And the issue that I see is that by placing you as a black woman on reality show, and if you feel as if there is no options, if you feel as if there is no desirability, it's like you're saying there were no options for me. Not only is there an impact on you, but then the perception is that you have black women watching at home, and we know that there's a parasocial relationship with reality TV. People have a relationship. They see you. They're like, "Angie's me," or, "Angie's my sister," or, "Angie's my daughter," or, like, "Angie is I'm connected to her, we have a relationship," and the more that they could feel you not feeling desired, it's internalized. Yeah. And so then, even though I'm sure people fight to have you on, for representation, by not giving you a full experience, what it does is it's actually a ripple effect of being detrimental. Yeah. And I'll even go a step further, is, I think it's incredibly detrimental to black men. Yeah. Because you have black men watching, and they say, "Oh, look at that. Oh, she's not desirable," right? Or they say, "She doesn't have a lot of options," and then they watch the parasocial relationship they have with Symba, and say, "Well, look at all the options." Yeah. Fishing the sea. Fishing the sea. So, this is something that has just upset me, and from the inside, I have, I'm telling you, I have had endless conversations, endless conversations with production companies, with networks. We got to change this. This has got to change. We're doing disservice to this person. Do you know what's happening here? Yeah. And so, that's why, when you sent that message to me, it was a trigger for me. Yeah. Because you're trying to fix it, and it's just not changing. So, why did you feel as if you had no other options? I think it was just point blank in my face, literally, when I walked in the first day, we had to sit around the fire pit. And it was a situation where I think it was like, "Oh, yeah, so, so who finds this person attractive?" "Oh, like, who would you say is wifey material?" And like, my name is everyone else sitting there, their name is getting called for something in terms of attractiveness, wifey material, wifey, I got it from OP, which I was like, "I think he's seeing it." I think by that point, he's seeing that, "Okay, no one's even batting the eyelid at Angie. So, the wifey material came up, I'm thinking, "Okay, maybe someone's going to feel sorry for me at least." And be like, "You know what? She's quiet. She's very demure. Maybe this is, this is wifey." We can just say, "Yeah, Angie, like, at least, like, but no one." And everyone, I was just sitting there, if you see my body language, even when I watched it back, even just living in that moment, I was just like, "Yeah, I was like, oh, that's nice." I was like, "Happy for them." But then I was like, that reality just sat in like where I am, and I was just like, "This is where it all starts." Like, this is where it all starts, no one's even batting the eyelid except from one person, so it's like automatically now, it's a situation where I have to entertain this situation because he's the only one interested in me. I had chats with a lot of the guys, within like the first couple of days in Levella, we was all pulling everyone for a chat. We was all chatting to each other. And just even in those interactions, it just felt on their side, like, just put on it straight away. Like, you can just feel the vibes, and it was never a thing where there was someone continuously pulling me for a chat and being like, "Actually, yeah, we had a good first conversation." And I want to, because I had ideas in my head where I'm like, "Actually, me and such and such. We had a good conversation." Actually, I'm going to entertain that, even though I was covered up with OP, I was still like, "Okay, let me actually see." But it wasn't really, I didn't feel from their side, so I was just like, "No, I'm not even going to," because you can just tell when people aren't interested, so that's when I started to feel like, "Yeah, I don't have options here." Okay. So I have to kind of be in a situation where I'm with someone who's not all the way, my type, and I have to kind of not force it, but now I have to force myself to grow into liking this person when I know it's a situation where first conversation, there was an instant spark romantically, but I felt like I had to just hone into that because I'm like, "Hey, he's the only one that's like showing any type of interest." Yeah. Yeah, and did you feel as if, because he was the only one, that if you didn't show interest, then that's it for you. Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%. Like 100%. I was on that next flight. And obviously, when I walked in, you're told, be open, be open, be open. So I'm like, "Okay, cool. He's not my typical type for real." So this is my be open moment, so I'm like, "Okay, you know what, let me just be open." So that was my moment where I'm like, not really thinking about, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to go home if I don't show interest," but it was just more like, "Hey, let me just be open and see where this openness leads." But yeah, I ended up just leading like, you know what I mean, I ended up finding out that he was saying that I think on his, one of his intro is like a Scottish blonde, this is type. So I was like, "Oh." Right then. Yeah, there you go. I was like, "There you go." Then you're out. Now I'm like, "Okay." Do you think the future looks like in what can we do? I think for me, the ideal future is to bring, when you're like trying to take the diversity box for these shows, these dating shows, like not only take that box, but make sure that they get the full experience as well, like what you were saying. Like, I just feel like us coming in and taking that box full, you're so good and well, but then when we're having experience where it's like all the other girls, they have, they're in situations where, you know, like with my situation, for instance, there's bombshells walking in and they're saying, "Oh yeah, like this girl, that girl, and it's consistently, like other girls, bar me, the only like full black girl, I guess, like dark skin, mind you." So yeah, like everyone else is like interested in this one, that one, like that don't even look like me, I mean, I'm the only one wearing a wig, so it's like on a specific type of niche. So I feel like the diversity box is checked, but like when it has a mic experience, I feel like you need to also bring in people who are also interested in, you know, people that look like me, because it's just not living it is horror, because I just feel like my narrative was now forced to be a situation where like I didn't want to be in a situation where I had to deal with what I had to deal with, like to be honest, like symbol was the best option in and out the villa, like I'm not saying that, "Oh yeah, I want it, if there was someone to walk in, I would have sacked him off, because of the situations and I would have gone elsewhere." Right. And I wasn't given the opportunity. That's not what I'm saying. Like the same way he got to explore, figure out where his heads are and what not. As much as I knew, like, okay, we have a strong connection, there was no opportunity for me. This is love Island at the end of the day, like it's a situation where it's like you're not going to get moments like this where you can sit and you can talk to this one and it's okay and sit and talk to this one and it's okay in front of each other's faces because we're trying to figure out our situation and where we stand with each other. And it's like I wasn't given the full love Island experience to be honest. You just said something, too, that we didn't even touch it. Well, you touched on it and I'm glad you brought it up. Colorism. Yeah. That is all, oh my God. Do we have another hour? It's crazy. It is, to me, and I mean, these are all the things that I'm just getting off my chest. When I got to the UK, I noticed, all right, tell me if I'm, if this is inaccurate, okay, okay. This is my observation, is I noticed something very interesting about television shows here. And that is, is that television shows predominantly white shows, predominantly white shows. But as the show wanted to diversify, the first option typically was someone who was, was someone mixed race, light complexion, and by doing that, it was like a check box, right? And then what you see is then you see maybe two mixed race people. So it's slowly. Yeah, it's very gradual. Very gradual. Baby steps. Baby steps. It's a humbling experience to say the least. That was a very humbling experience, especially when the person that you're cockled up with is speaking to this one or that one. and it's just like, I don't know, it's just, it's really humbling because when you think you have like such a connection to where it's like, yeah, like, and then you see the reality of what love island is, you have to talk to other people, but then it's just like, and then you're sat there with nothing. It's like, in my spare time on watching him have in conversations. It's like, because what else can I do? That place is small. And it was just, yeah, it was just, it was very humbling, but there were good times. I'm not going to lie because in terms of my weak situation, I felt so seen, so seen, they were so understanding in terms of catering to me in that department. Like, if I needed more time in terms of my hair, because we would have like lunch before we would start getting ready for the nighttime. So they would say, okay, like, if you need to like change your wig or something, ask us like, if there's like three hours to get ready and you'll know that's your time to change your wig. And there was like, you have to do like your beachhuts before you can, before I can start changing my look and getting ready. So they would say, okay, cool, if you need to change your wig, we'll put you first on the list to do the beachhut, so you can start getting ready and have the full three hours. Because sometimes you can be waiting for a beachhut for ages, because you're waiting for everyone else to finish. Like my experience as a whole with like the team and everything in my process going through it, like it was amazing. I'm not even going to lie, I'll give that to them, but it was just the option part. If that was, if that was sorted, sorry, I wouldn't have a bad word to say. And also I just felt like the home, I don't know, like for me, I was like, why couldn't I just have the person that was gunning in for me? And we can just write off in the sun, said, why did our narrative have to be toxic, especially as black people? It's just like, and then Zim men, they don't have a good rep, like Zim men are known to, they have a stereotype of being cheaters and stuff like that. So it's like, our narrative doesn't help, you know, stereotypes. And it's like, I'm the strong black woman that stays. And it's like, you know, like the olden days where it's like, like your grandmas would tell you, just stay, just stay. It looks like that was my vibe. And my friends and family they know me, I am completely opposite. I was it she liked to my friend, I've done all this work being single for three, four years. And my standpoint on like, man, and how you should be treated, like it's all, it all just felt like it was just thrown in the bin. Cause going on the show and my situation is completely opposite to what I preach and how I maneuver usually on the day and well in the day and well. But it's like, I was forced to be in a situation just because I had no options. But it was like, I couldn't look left or right. If I could, I would have. Yeah. I hear you. So yeah. I hear you. I hear you. Yeah. I wanted us to talk about this. Yeah. Cause I wanted you to, to, to feel seen. Yeah. If you'll heard and, and know that there's, there's, there, there are this conversation. There is going to be an endless number of people who resonate with it. Yeah. Viewers, participants of different projects, participants of production companies and networks who are fighting because there's many, many people fighting to try to make this happen. It's something that needs to change in this industry, right? It's an industry, for me, it's an industry issue. I won't stop fighting on it. Thank you so much. And also I, I almost wanted to have this conversation because this is something that I have been fighting on for 10 years. Easy. Wow. That's crazy. Having conversations for 10 years. You know, this is the kind of behind the scenes work that so many people are unaware. That happens. The hard conversations that are happening. And even for me, I have to be delicate. Yes. You know, you have to be delicate. You have to say in a specific way because, you know, I mean, like, you, you can't, you can't be raw about it. Like you have to say in a persuasive, nice kind of, but that's just because of like, just who we are as people, like just being black, you can't just be like, oh, but yeah, that's the reality. That's the reality. Yeah. That's the life we live. Yeah. I say we're, we're, I always say though, we're so blessed. I was going to say that so blessed. Like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to be any other way, genuinely. No, genuinely. Yeah. It's, it's one of those where I feel so blessed to be black. Yeah. You know what I mean? So blessed. Yeah. And so, yeah. And it's always been the case to be honest. There was never identity crisis around here. I believe that. Yeah, no, no, no, never that. It was never that. But yeah, I'm, I'm blessed. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. All right. We're blessed. We're blessed. I'm a black. We, we, you know, you know what we are? Well, we are blessed. We are black. Yes. We are brilliant. We are beautiful. You say it. And we are everything. Yes, absolutely. Amen to that. Amen to that. You know, I'm so glad we had this kind of conversation. Yes. I'm so glad that I got this opportunity to speak to you of old people. This was like something that was like vision board vibes. Double whammy. It was great to hear Angie and Simba unpack their relationship and the dynamics of their relationship. I think we can all understand truly now how their relationship formed and why it's so strong today. The conversation I had with Angie, just the two of us, was a conversation I've wanted to have publicly for quite some time. And as we, we, we walk through that conversation, I could see that we were step in step hand in hand. We were in full agreement. And I know we're not the only two that believe this. I know there is an endless number of people that see what we see. Not only people of color, but all people that see what we see and realize something needs to change. I saw that you require men to sign an NDA and sometimes have a vast sect of me. Did you ever get a sect of me? No. I mean, no. All right. Literally. Literally. So 16 and pregnant and 10 months. I like got to the realest point in my life as I'm living in my car and going to school and also watching my kid. So Derek, is it the father of your child? Yeah, he just showed me a lot of love. And I think sometimes when you're so desperate, you need just a touch of love, but not go for **** and **** in that part what I sadly reached out to. I remember you were in all the tabloids. You were arrested several times. Yeah, doing nothing. So what happened? Well, you got serious there. It is so surreal because even like our image or fights, they used to be like, well, I will never be there if you die. And then when someone you love really dies, you're like, why did I say all those stupid hurtful things? The day that Derek passed. How did you find out? It's going to bring me to tears. I have a very important surprise for you. You ready? Oh God, that evening whole year.