Lord and Miller on ‘Project Hail Mary’ Secrets, Losing ‘Solo’, and Good Studio Execs

The Town is presented by Fandool. Have you heard the news? Fandool is now available everywhere. And when we say everywhere, we mean everywhere. Tallahassee, Florida, El Paso, Texas, Athens, Georgia, Madison, Wisconsin, Birmingham, Alabama. All right, you get the picture. Wherever you're watching, whatever game you're fired up for, Fandool is there to bring you closer to the action. So make your picks and play wherever the games take you. Download the Fandool app to get started. Age and location restrictions apply. Product availability varies by market. See Fandool.com for eligibility, gambling problem called 1-800-Gambler. It is Friday, October 23rd. Today it's a live episode. We restarted our film school tour on Tuesday night at the USC School of Cinematic Arts. Craig fired up the town tour bus. It's more like an RV and we picked up Lucas Shah or Monday Guy and very special guest, Phil Lord and Chris Miller. If you're not familiar, Lord and Miller are some of the most prolific filmmakers and producers in town. They're working on the third Spider-Verse movie right now and they did Mitchell's versus Machines, the Lego movie, plus on the live action side. They've got the 21 Jump Street franchise. They are producing another one of those right now. They were famously fired off of the Han Solo movie at Disney. We'll talk about that experience and of course they did this year's Project Hail Mary which grossed almost $700 million worldwide for Amazon and now a contender for Best Picture. They've also worked a bunch in TV like Last Man on Earth, How I Met Your Mother, The After Party. What I like about them is they're super outspoken and candid about the business. So let's get right into the interview and a very fun lightning round afterward. Today it's Born and Miller live at USC, from The Wringered Puck. I'm that Bellany and this is the town. All right, so I will start. Thank you guys for doing this. Our pleasure. One of the things I've always been curious about with Duos that have stayed together as writing and producing Duos is how do you guys actually work? Do you divvy things up? We were talking before. You seem to have a little bit more of a grasp of the business elements of what you guys do. But I don't know that that's the case. What do you do? Do you do a first draft and then Phil comes in and makes it funny? How does it work? I would say we are the least efficient duo in the movie business. Like the only place that we divvy anything up is on the writing side. We will work and work on an outline together and talk about things. And then when it's time to write a scene, it's hard to write that together. So we end up doing a splitting up. You take that scene. I'll take this scene. Whoever's got the best or like the clearest idea of how to get through that scene. And then we swap. And then we go over each other's things. We swap them back. And then we talk about it again. And then somebody executes that and then we turn it in. We wind up writing really fast because I know he's going to go over it. So it's like instead of like here's this perfect diamond that I've spent weeks working on. It's like here's the stinky turn. Please fix it. Please like yeah. And I think it's great because you want to have that attitude of like oh my god. This is not right. Please please make it better. And that's what makes a partnership work is when you feel like the other person is going to be helping you fix the problem rather than be like no don't ruin my perfect words. But on set we're joined at the hip where we're yeah we're always behind the monitor together. We try not to talk to actors at the same time in each ear. You know we do try to take turns. But you know we're we try to be like one mind with two bodies. And the obvious question what happens when you really disagree? Well you know if we have a disagreement on set usually we've talked about the scene and we have a very clear and unified vision of what we want to do. And then we look at each other after that going like oh that's we need a little more energy right? Okay you want me to talk to them? Okay I'll talk to them. And then and then when we take turns sometimes it'll be like oh that was cool. I think we should go even harder. I think we should make them just like go at it with each other and like get mad at each other. And the other one will be like oh I thought it was a little too harsh. I thought it needed to be a little they should be kinder to each other. And what we would do is do okay on this take let's just go for it. Let's just like have at it. And then once we get that in a good way they go okay now the other one comes in okay now that was great now for safety let's try a sweetie pie version. And then in the edit room we can figure out which is better and oftentimes it happens as you go like oh this might be better if we start off with everyone how to each other and then and then everyone's kind by the end and the scene has a shape. But you can figure down the editing room rather than like picking the right version on set. Yeah one of the things you learn on set is like it takes a lot less time to just shoot another take than it does to argue about what the best way to do it is like let's just find out and we're all just guessing like you make it into the edit speed and be like that was dead wrong actually this other thing is the right thing. Oftentimes that's the case. Have you had a project where only one of you was on set and you're trusting the other person to execute the vision or do you make sure that you are both always there? We're always there and by DJ rule in fact we are always there. Sometimes on a thing that we're producing if we're doing this there's one time that we like split up we were two things that were going at the same time and we split up who was going to visit which is not the same week. But DJ the DJ won't give you credit if one of them one of you is not there at all times. Well it's like a one director rule so with the exception that's made for duos is that they we are treated as a unit and so that means like one of the promises you make when when you go and ask for that is you promise you're always going to be together and somebody's not going to be on a different stage shooting that because that was violate the spirit of the rule. Right because the historically it was either like a producer would take a director and go like hey we're a directing team now and then they just wanted to credit or and by the way if you say no I'm pulling all funding and this or they're like oh hey we get two directors for the price one now you shoot this scene well you shoot this scene we can get through the thing in half the days and the DGA wants to protect against people abusing that rule so we like are bound and we swore to the DGA that we would be we would never and you make that promise to your peers and to people like Taylor Hackford and stuff so when that promise counts so when like a producer goes hey guys we're gonna not make our day unless one of you goes over and shoots I think I made a promise to like John Singleton so I can't do it that's actually really interesting you guys on the animation side you typically don't direct or at least on spiderverse you're not directed. We directed to Clara the chance to meet Paul's and the Lego movie okay but on spiderverse no why did you choose not to direct those oh we have great directors for those films and we got cut pretty busy those movies take like five years. So why do they take so long just honest I know animation takes forever but even for animation the spiderverse movie seem to take a long time. We're making new ways of telling stories and new ways of visualizing them those were every movie is made something that you've never seen before in a modern studio animated film on that on that type of scale and so with the build new software and build new styles of design to be done in CG animation and that type of thing is not something that just like happens. What on each movie was completely new and more specifically what's new on this one because I actually was talking to someone today about this movie and they were saying like it's actually visually something even crazier yeah like each one has to do something totally new and this is the spiderverse movie that's coming out this next summer that's correct yeah I'd say the I mean the the look of the first movie no one had ever really done before at that scale so that thing was we were proving to ourselves that we could do it while we did it I remember the the first trailer was the first time we had actually seen what the movie could look like and so what if they had like the comic book bende dots you know for and texture and hash marks but in 3d when characters moving around you're like do those dots stay on their face like acne do they move around are they going to be distracting how do we make that work so figuring out how that stuff moved was a huge huge thing on the second movie it was like okay what if we did that in five different styles where each style felt like a different artist drew that universe and then this one. I mean not just like the scale and the number of looks but the the particular looks that we're doing are really really unique and they don't follow rules of three-dimensional animation they're much more in a 2d multi-plane kind of style there's also the camera work pipeline is completely new and a lot more akin to a live action pipeline so it's a lot more handheld like we have Alice Brooks live action dp is tping the show there's live action operators that are part of it like shooting things virtually it's going to look that the camera work is outstanding. I want to ask about comedies particularly studio comedies you guys have had a lot of success and we talk about this a lot on the show just the challenges in getting any kind of comedies made these days I feel like from the top of the pyramid which you guys kind of are it's give us the lay of the land our studio is more amenable I feel like there was a wave a couple I've asked Seth Rogan and Evan Goldberg about there's an even day. talked about how difficult it is to get these movies made at any kind of budget. What do you guys see of the state of comedies that the studio is right now? Well, I think we're about to have a new influx of low-to-mid-budget comedies. In the vein of how horror as a genre is like, you can make something at a price and not all of them have to work. But if one does, it pays for all the rest of them. I feel like they've been talking about why do you feel like we're about to have an influx. It's from talking to studio heads and what's happened this year and what types of movies are hitting and movies that appeal to younger people and a sensibility that I think there's an audience that's ready for. And I think seeing a horror film with a big crowd, it's benefited by having a big crowd because you all react at the same time. And I think the same thing is true with a comedy. There's so much more fun to see in a big theater with a bunch of people all laughing at the same time. On the higher the budget goes, the more it seems these days like it's an action comedy, right? That's the type of comedy. Or a family comedy. Or a family comedy. Or a family comedy. Or a branded like a comedy movie. Or an anime movie. But why do you think it's taken so long? But comedy's been put in all every genre now. Why, why, Hail Mary. Or Project Hell Mary was got to do. Yeah. Why do you think it's taken so long? I mean, low-budget horror movies have been around this entire century. And yet, it feels like any time there's an effort for a comedy. I mean, maybe it's because people feel safe with a comedy with talent. And if you have talent, suddenly the budget goes up $20 million. But I don't know, like we're considering how much kind of fun comedy there is on the internet that gets made for not very much money. Right. There's a lot of very funny people on the internet and people right now are like scouring for the next big, uh, internet thing. Like, obviously like, Kerry Barker came from doing comedy strip, stick on the internet. And that movie is really funny. And I think that, that type of thing is going to be, I think in the next few years is going to be something that will be because it's such a low investment. I think studios are going to be willing to take some of those risks that they haven't been most recently. And it feels like you guys would be primed to be part of that. We're open for business. And we're developing a lot of that stuff, you know, and, and one of my favorite movies in the last few years was Bottoms, just because it felt like it was so, but yeah, it's great movie. And it just felt like what a fresh voice. And it felt like, you know, one, I think one of the keys is for it to feel like something that's new and that it's young, but that movie did like 15, 20 million worldwide, not, not a huge hit, not a huge hit, but it's a volume business. That's true. You keep knocking on the door. I know. I think like, I think like it's a pretty small sample size of like comedies that have really been pushed theatrically. And I think I think we just have to keep trying. Do you classify a project Hail Mary as a comedy like when we're at the Golden Globes in January? Oh, it's in the comedy category. Don't classify it as anything. Well, we were making it. People were like, is this a drama? Is it action? Is it a comedy? Is it like sci-fi? What is it? Is it a mystery? Like, yes, it's all of those things. That's the human experience. Like, you don't have to fit into a little box. Why did that movie take six years? I know the strike. I know the strike was in the middle of that. I think it was like, what drew started working on the outline during the pandemic, I think, right? That's what we all read. The manuscript. It drew with busy. We waited for Drew. And then we were busy. The talented Drew Goddard who wrote the adaptation. Yeah. And then, and then we really got on to it. The second we finished, the second, the Spiderman's. And then, you know, the first call was to a bunch of designers and story artists to start figuring out what the heck is Rocky going to look like. That took a minute, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Start about three years from when we finished Spider-Man, when we finished Hail Mary. What are some of the discarded looks for Rocky? Oh, there are. Hundreds. There was like a lot of like witchy looking kind of like spiky stuff. Simply. Yeah. That just didn't. Ultimately. We wound up, we put a zillion foam kind of sculpture sketches of Rocky out into a room. Like at one point, we had done like six months of design work and we just put them all out into a room at the creature shop and just walked around. And Amy stood in front of one of them and goes, I like this guy. And why? Like what about that? They seem friendly. The proportions were appealing. And it looked like, what a fun, what a kind of like your pet lab. You didn't do a screen test with Gosling or anything like that? We did. Ultimately, after we built it and painted it and after even much more, just be like, okay, how do these two look together? We introduced them. Yeah. And like Ryan was very cute. Yeah. And he was very moved. It was like a camera test. And you know, he'd spent a lot of time working on the movie and thinking about it with us and to see it, you know, like come to life and be puppeted and you know, you take 15 seconds to stop looking at James or Jesus and start looking at Rocky and then suddenly you're like a kid again. You made this movie with Amazon. You've worked at a lot of different studios. I'm going to put you on the spot and ask you to compare not rank. I wouldn't ask you to do that. But I will ask you to compare working at the different studios because studios have a feeling to you. Pretend I'm a young filmmaker who comes up to you and says, I'm a hot filmmaker. I'm deciding amongst the studios to work with. Give me your impression of the different studios. Pat. I mean, it's such an it's such an idiosyncratic business that's ultimately, you know, you're talking about a handful of people that populate those C-sweets, the folks that are choosing movies and developing things. But you know, ultimately it's like you go like, you know, we've worked with Courtney Valente a really long time. We made. Courtney's going to love this. She was at Warner's when he did Lego movie and now she's at Amazon and like, and Mike and Pam put this movie together at MGM before they went to Warner's. Deluca and Abdi, they were at Warner's. They just got fired. Right. They, you know, they believed in this story and invested in it in a big way. And what is what's been exciting about MGM is just feeling the excitement of a team coming together and having one of the first really big movies that this team released. And so you get all of that love and attention and just belief in the movie. That's the bottom line is wherever you go, like every place is different. Here at MGM, they really, really believed in the movie. And it felt to you culturally as big as big movies you've done everywhere else. I mean, we were just making the movie, right? Like we weren't in this. No, no, no, but after. But I'm talking about after. You can tell. You know, there's a whole conversation around Netflix, right? That I was I'm curious in your case on Mitchell vs Machines, like when that movie came out and that was a big animated hit for them, did that feel as big to you as clouded the chance of me balls as Lego movie? I mean, that was during the pandemic. So it was pretty weird time. So it was a hard, hard to compare, but it was sort of felt like the movie that people needed to have at that moment. And so it felt really good because there was no comparison in any other way. We had another movie on that service at the same time, and we had the same call about the performance. And there was definitely a difference. A different vibe that that one didn't do so well. Yeah, the thing about Hill Mary, the thing about Hill Mary is just that you've the word that keeps popping into my head is belief. You just felt like like the entire company, the marketing department publicity, like even down to like the good old like post production folks, everybody was doing everything they could to give us every single dollar and cent they could put on screen because they believed in the story. And that's what it was like on set. It sounds so cheesy, but that really is the truth is like all the folks that work at these companies, they're here because they're filmmakers because they want to like put their energy into something that reaches an audience. And so when you could feel the traction of this even on set, like people going and seeing Rocky and kind of like holding their hand to their chest, you really knew that we had something. And I think the whole studio felt it. All right, Disney. You guys have had a complicated relationship with Disney. Is this right that you guys were discovered by Michael Eisner sort of around about, you need to tell Wikipedia because they're wrong. No, it is a terrible story to tell students about how to do any will not happen. This is not replicable. We went to college at Dartmouth College and we were making student films there and there was an article that was written about me in like the magazine that goes out to alumni and it was a fun fact written by Jake Tapper, who was like a young journalist at the time. And that article, one of Michael Eisner's sons had gone to Dartmouth. We didn't know him, but somehow that magazine had gotten its way onto the Disney jet supposedly. And he was like, who's this? And pass it down to the next person and down, down, down, down to the person who was running Disney television animation at the time, which is doing Saturday morning cartoons. And they were like, this is some guy, Eisner wanted you to check out called me in my off-campus apartment as I was a senior and was like, hey, do you want to come out to Disney for a meeting? And I was like, nah, I got midterms. I was like, but my friend Phil and I just made finished making these student films and we're almost done with them. I'll send them to you. And we're going to move out to LA and we'll save you a flight when we graduate. Don't do favors for Fortune 500 companies, that's a very important lesson. Well, I assume this has happened to everybody here, right? So again, not really making me feel bad for not working to like get an article in my college. So, so you do that, you have presumably a decent experience at Disney. But yeah, we were there for three years and developed our first show, Clone High there. We like met Bill Lawrence there who was a great mentor of ours. So it was a really good, we directed our first stuff. So we learned a ton. And we got silver passes and went to the park like 20 times. That's nice. But you know, a generation or two ago, you guys might have been Disney lifers. And yet you have not made a movie for Disney at all. And the one movie that you did for Lucasfilm, you were sort of famously removed from. So what is your, what is your thinking of Disney right now today? We try not to hold a grudge. Oh, please. Everybody holds grudges in Hollywood. I mean, I always look forward. I never look back, even when I am backing out of my driveway. I just keep looking straight forward. I don't know what happens. That's because you have the camera now. Yeah, exactly. But, but like I remember some of your tweets during the Mitchell's campaign and it was, they were negative Disney tweets. Oh, no, really? Yes. So, you know, the grudge is, the grudge was there. We just had a very lovely dinner with David like a couple of weeks ago. David Greenbomb at Disney. No, David's an old friend, you know, the, you know, Dana Waldens, an old friend we worked for her at 20th, a million years ago. For quite a long time, she's a big part of our TV career. You know? They got it. It's kind of like, you know, you can't, again, it's like all people and they're all people we know and like. So it's kind of hard to hold, it's so abstract to hold a grudge against a company. So let's, let's just cut the BS. The, the Lucasfilm element. Have you talked to Kathy Kennedy? Yeah. Yes. And it's a really nice note about Hail Mary. And we've stayed in touch a little bit over the years and, you know, that, that movie that we did together. So we could say Solo. Yeah. Solo. Yeah. You know, we learned a ton on that movie. We got all these reps and pencil miles and got to work with the best crews in the world. Half of those people worked on Hail Mary, you know, like we worked at the Creature Shop. So really when you look back at that experience, all you can say is like, how lucky we were, how much we learned and like it, you know, it led to all this. But admit, you were happy when it failed. Haven't told like it's, you were, you were happy when it failed. It's not no because, you know, that's our crew. Okay. That's our crew. That's our cast. Those are the people we cast. Like, we felt even in that moment when Ron took over that our job was to make sure that Ron was successful. You know, we had like a little party when we all left and what we said to the crew was, if you want to like do something to support us, make a great movie with Ron. Do you feel vindicated that Alden is now a star? We were just happy for him, you know, because I think he's brilliant and he's so creative and he's gone on to continue to do the thing that made us cast him in the first place, which is just to really thoughtful work. We were feeling we getting on a cocaine bear and had a great time together. I have a Lucas film question that I think. I was gonna say, so Dave Filoni comes up to you and says, let's do another one. Yes or no? You never say never. If you were put, if you were. I wanted to get me a cool hat. Oh, really? Yeah. He has cool hats. He has cool hats, yeah. If you were put in charge of Lucas film tomorrow, what would you do with Star Wars as a franchise? Oh, wow. Good question, Lucas. Ha. None of my nonsense. I mean, I'm not saying anything that isn't already. Like those people like Dave already know, which is just that like that, those films are independent films. They started that way and they have that spirit. And the other thing is that they're spiritual and not to forget. And they should be funny. And they're funny. The ones, yeah, they're all fun. Situation normal. Yeah. Yeah. But do you feel like I feel like all of us in one way or another grew up on those movies? Do you feel like they are as resonant to young viewers as they should be? Yeah. I think that's these guys. But certainly. Do you guys want to watch more Star Wars movies? There you go. All right. Well, wait a second. I'm pretty sure this building was paid for by George Lucas. Yeah. But also, like, those movies come out of a vibe in the mid '70s that was centered on this campus, including a movie called Dark Star, which is one of the things that really inspired Hail Mary, which is a very DIY-- John Carpenter. Like John Carpenter and Dan O'Bannon, like, made this Puku space movie. And it has a kind of freewheeling quality to it that I think is like really resonant with what young audiences are looking at right now. You guys are known for being able to take IP and do something cool with it. How do you pick projects, especially in the IP world? Like you're doing a murder, she wrote movie. Like, I would not guess that you guys would be interested in murder, she wrote. I loved murder, she wrote. You did. Okay. I poured over every murder mystery show almost like you look at these properties and say that's a challenge. That's a challenge to make something cool out of that. The challenge is definitely a part of it. There's a masochism that's there. It's like, if it's too easy, then why are we doing it? But usually it's about, is there a way to do this that is unexpected and is interesting to us personally. And you know, so many things come our way and that you would be surprised how many things we were like, I just, there's no way for me to do like really good ideas show up sometimes. Right. And we're like, I don't know how to do that. I don't, like the ideas either show up or they don't, like you wouldn't have known what to do with Barbie. Probably not. So you know, the idea shows up or it comes from outer space and sometimes they show up. And for some reason, they showed up when we were thinking about 21 jump street. And sometimes they show up when they think about the Lego movie like, well, like the Lego movie started with us going like, oh, we wrote an email to Dan passing on the project. But if you did it, these are all of our ideas. This is how we think you should do it. And so, and whatever, the ideas came and then they went down another road and that didn't pan out. And they're in some meeting in Denmark. And Dan kind of late in the game, Dan Lynn goes, well, I do have this email. Let me read this out and they're like, we love that. And it was like four weeks before the rights expired. So we made a great deal, the right of treatment. And then that turned on us, well, we'll write the screen, but oh, well, we love the screen, but okay, we'll direct the movie. We kind of backed in. We didn't want to make a Lego movie. We were like, oh, that sounds so like a toy commercial. But then we fell in love with the thing that we were- We fell in love with the idea of like Lego is a tool for young filmmakers in their basement. And what if we could make a movie that looked like we gave like Michael Bay Infinity Legos. And it's a good argument that agents will often say, don't do free work. Don't send that email with all your ideas unless they're paying you. But that's the response. What was sort of like, well, this is a way to do it that I think would be good and I will, if you put, I wanted that out in the world, they could have taken your idea and given it to Michael Bay. They absolutely could have, I would have loved to see that, but have saved us a lot of trouble. I'm curious because you brought up Dan Lynn. You've brought up a bunch of executives and producers you've worked with over the time. And I think oftentimes when you talk to creative people, they will maybe seriously or not be sort of dismissive of the role of the corporation of the studio. And it's the same in the music business. The artist's like, oh, they hate the label. Is there a clear difference between like a good executive and a bad executive? And if so, what is the impact? Is there a story that you've seen from a project you've worked on where like an executive made a clear difference for better or for worse? All the time. Constantly. Yeah. I think it's kind of like cheap and easy to just like, dehumanize everybody at every studio as like some abstraction. These are like fellow filmmakers. And when it works, it works beautifully. We've made a lot of movies with Amy Pascal because our first movie, Cloudy with the chance of meatballs, we go into Amy Pascal's office. She hated the movie. This is an animatic that we made of storyboards. She hated it. But she brought us into her office. We pitched her our vision for it. We showed her these like kids books that we loved that we wanted the movie to look like. And we walked out of the room and she goes, I hate that movie, but I like those guys and I like those books. And I'm going to get them the help that they need. And because of that, because she had a gut instinct on our creative spirit, she introduced us to a woman named Lindsay Durand who's had a tremendous impact on our career who helped us rewrite the script with our friend, Rob Greenberg, and taught us how to tell a feature length story. And without that act of Amy just going, I just like them. None of that happens. And without her going, they need support. Let me bring in the right reinforcements. None of our career happens. Hannah Manglello was there at the same time. Hannah Manglello was a huge Sherpa and guide to like show us around and help us understand how to operate and how to make our story better. And the execs all want the same thing we want, which is a big successful movie that everybody likes, right? But I think the good version of executive is someone was making a decision out of greed instead of fear. Those are like the two ways that you prefer greed. Greed is great because you take risks. You want to do something, make a big splash, you're feeling excited, you double down. The executive making choice out of fear is going to like be the thing that makes you like the question anything different and shaving off all the unusual edges and turning everything into a round ball that's the same as every other round ball. In your experience, what is the percentage of executives lean towards? How many are fear? How many are greed? I mean, we've been lucky enough to work with a lot of people that have been really positive towards us. I mean, I'd think about Tom Rothman, who on the first Spider-Verse, like saw the movie and he had, there were two big notes. One was a key super note that was super helpful that was like in the crux of the moment when like Miles was tied up in his bedroom. We had a scene where he was talking to Peter's Aunt May and Tom said, why isn't he talking to his dad through the wall through the door? Like that's what that relationship is about, like, oh my god, we're such idiots. And we redid it. It was like the emotional heart of that film. He also said, like, I don't get the pig. What's the pig about? Spider-Hamm. And then at the, at the premiere, like, oh my god, you were so right about that scene with the dad at the doorway. And he was like, you guys were so right about the pig. Yeah, we like feedback, you know, I'm like, this is not a one way medium. We need the audience to get what we're putting out there. You guys are a huge part of telling this story. Your brains tell the story. We just shoot light out of a cannon at 24 frames a second. You guys do the work. So if we don't, we tested Hail Mary, you know, three official times and like nine friends and family, we like the feedback. What'd you change? So many things. We cut an hour out of the movie. But it's still like 230. Right. But like that movie is a triumph. And that movie has like two different time periods, right? So scenes can kind of go in different places. And so things kept moving around. And they're calibrating like the level of comedy that audiences wanted to make sure that it was, you know, that it was taking itself seriously and that the stakes were real and that the emotions felt big and true and like, you know, just dialing in the movie. And you can only learn so much about your movie in the editing suite. If you're not sitting in an audience with other human beings, with your mirror neurons firing, being embarrassed about a moment that doesn't work. That's not landing. And feeling it when everybody gets really quiet because the moment's working, then you don't really know what your movies do it. How many songs did you test before you landed on the Harry Styles song? This is an interesting story. Zero. What? So we're on set. So that whole scene wasn't really in the script for a very long time. The whole karaoke idea wasn't, and eventually we, like, said, well, we're really interested in the, not just the science of Andy Weir's book, but the social life of the scientists, the spiritual life of the scientists. We grew up in television writers rooms. So we were like, well, the scientists are like a writers room. They're feeding off each other's ideas, and their social life is important to this movie. So let's do a scene where they're all socializing, and Ryan feels a little left out. And that Sandra's character is someone who can't participate because she's the boss, and she has to keep her distance and she doesn't. And she has to send them to their death, right? So they go out and have this conversation, and in the original script, you know, that was that. Ryan comes to us and says, you know, Sandra is singing between takes at the trailers at base camp. And it's beautiful. And we're psychos if we don't figure out a way to get that on screen. So in addition to being one of the world's greatest actors in giving an amazing performance, producing this movie with us, he was coming up with ideas like this all the time, like, we should have her sing and karaoke song to, like, wish everyone farewell. And we're like, that actually would be great, especially if she cuts it off in the middle, like her German self. And so we unfortunately, we're shooting on this military ship and we only have a day and a half left on this ship. So we go to her and say, like, hey, and there's a little worst of the least cool thing you can do to an actor is like 36 hours before go, could you sing a torch song karaoke song tomorrow? And she said, yes, but I only if I can choose the song. So she went. So she picked. And she went on a Zoom with her daughter and they picked the song together. And of Wow. And then they were like, it's this Harry style song and we're like, that's very expensive. And they're like, look at our studio makes, you know, sells toilet paper around the world. But listen to these lyrics, they're perfect, very point in and perfect. We didn't have time to even rehearse it. We didn't even tell the cast what she was going to sing because we wanted to get their reactions to be true and the reaction they have are real. They can't believe this is happening. And and it ended up being like the emotional center of that movie in this situation where you plan and prepare and there's so much in that movie that had to be completely planned out everything was rocking the puppetry and the wires and the zero gravity and the different forms of gravity and all of that. But then being able to pay flexible enough of when a great idea comes along from Ryan that you can scramble and put it together and then make something new and chase all the good ideas. Like that happened again and again on that. Yeah. And I think that's an example of embracing the feedback and trying to be the guys who say yes. That like since the beginning of our career was like I hated working for showrunners that said no to everything. It's like I want to desperately be the person who says yes. If a great actor with a great idea comes to us, let's figure that out. I'd rather do it that way than have it be strictly adhering to the idea we had two years ago. You're denying yourself all the information that your body is taking and while you make move. And I think that's one of the benefits of group work is that you're not the sole author of the piece. Together the organism of the crew are the author of the piece. But it potentially takes longer and cost more. That's true. Grambling. Like there was another moment where we had set up this sort of rainbow thematic in the movie. And while we're shooting the last scene that Ryan's in on earth when he gets tackled and forcibly taken under this thing. Spoiler if you haven't seen the film I should have said spoiler in advance. We were shooting the scene the shot before it where he's running running trying to run away from the guards and a rainbow came out right where we were going to shoot where he was going to be tackled. And we were like, Oh my God, we could get the rainbow in the shot as the last thing he sees on earth as he's being drugged against his will. And everyone saw it and was like, Oh my God. And the camera was on this like rods that these care people were running with. They had an unleashed it. We lay everything down, block it really quickly, go, go, go, go before the rainbow's gone. And we got it and everybody hustled to make it happen and things like that happen all the time on that movie. And when a good idea comes, the whole crew will like make it happen. It's like on the Odyssey, that shot of the dolphins. Yeah, exactly. Just happened. Just what I mean. Go get it. Happy accidents. Yeah. You mentioned Amy. One thing that came out in the Sony hack was that she had approached you guys to essentially take over Sony animation or be the creative forces behind Sony animation. You didn't want to do that at the time. Or ever. That's my question. I mean, we've had situations where James Gunn is now running DC and we've had creatives that have stepped into that kind of quasi-producer/executive role. You would not want to do something like that. Rather be a filmmaker. And I think that's our, I was putting us to our best use, you know, because I think if you're suddenly only giving notes on other people's work and I'm not saying that's what James is doing. James is making movies alongside. He's made one of his best movies. I love this superman movie like I, I just don't know if that's a great use of us. All right. I have a, we have a lightning round, but do you have one last question? No. We'll make it work. Okay. Go lightning round. Now, the rules of the lightning round are such that you can pass if you like, but don't pass. Okay. And you have to, I guess we can't, you have to just answer the question and then we will move on. There would be no follow-up. That's for you. That's not for us. We're not going to follow up ourselves. I have it times not adhered to that. I will admit that, but I try. Okay. Best Easter egg you've inserted into a movie that only you guys will find funny. At the beginning of every Lord Miller movie, there is the sound of Chris Miller coughing in the rear right surround to suggest that we're here in the theater with you. Most ridiculous pitch to adapt a piece of IP that you have passed on. Slinky. Okay. Yeah. Wasn't it at least a decent pitch? I think the pitch was slinky. Status of a cocaine bear sequel. Possible. Possible. Written. Best possible title for a cocaine bear sequel. Can't say because it exists. Oh, it does. Is it a drug in an animal? I will just pass. Why do the two of you have a special thanks credit on the sausage party movie? Oh, we that's very generous. We just did the normal thing. that people do for each other, which is watch a movie and give thoughts on it. And we did that for Seth and Evan, and they didn't have to do that. It was very nice. - They've done it for us. - Okay. - Pay for it. - Where do you keep your Oscar for Spider-Verse? - In my office. - On a shelf. - So boring. - That's really boring. - What do we put in the bathroom? - Okay, where should it be? Under my pillow. - I don't know. - I sat next to Cuba Gooding Jr. at a dinner once, and he told me that it was in his mother's house, and she hangs things off of it. - Oh, like a sweater. Like that's drying a shirt or something, I don't know. - Briefly, I had like a underwear on it that came from Jimmy Kimmel. (laughing) 'Cause like a little underwear you could put over your Oscar so he wasn't nude. - Okay. - Like tidy whiteies. - He's such a prude. - True or false, you actually made the Lego Oscar that you tweeted when the Lego movie was snubbed. - False. - The artist, Nathan Savaya, who we had gotten to know while making the Lego movie, made it for us, and then Phil tweeted it out. - Yeah, okay. - But it was really made, it was the real one. - Best joke we never got to see in your version of Solo. - I'm trying to remember. - I know the answer. - You do? Okay, do it, say it. But I don't know if it's, it's okay, it's, it's, Kathy doesn't even work there anymore. - If it makes you feel better, my two lightning round questions are going to be way more uncomfortable. - Oh, fantastic. - Well, I don't know that they're not in 'cause we haven't seen the final film. But there was a great moment on set that Phoebe Waller bridge when she's dying. Do you remember this? And she, she, we pitched her something which is, you're dying and you feel bad for Lando's holding her in his arms. And said, tell him a joke. And she did, it was a very movie. - And it was a good joke. - Of course it was a good joke because Phoebe. - The past, you regret the most. - I don't regret any of them. But I remember, there was, I was happy that they had talked to us about doing a Guardians of the Galaxy. And I was like, I read that comic. I was like, it was like a tree in a raccoon. I feel like, I think it could be interesting. I'm like, oh, I don't think that's going anywhere. - Nice. - And then when James made it was so much better than we would have done. - I think that's right. - I don't feel bad about it. - Exactly. You kind of go like that movie is in the right hands. - Okay. All right, now Lucas is, who's the bigger movie star, Ryan Gosling, or Channing Tatum? - Ooh, pass. - Can't be me. We can't be me like that. - Those guys are both amazing. No, I mean like they both create their own water. They're both like unbelievably. What not everybody knows about those two gentlemen is that they are relentlessly creative artists. They just happen to be in the bodies of good looking athletic people. And that's what's so fun to make them so much fun to work with is that they both have glow in the dark brains. - You mentioned that your work is the best when you have 3D executives. Which of the projects you've worked on have you made the most money from? - I feel like this is a question that gets asked a lot these days. - Does it keep seeing these headlines about residuals and who's making what off residuals? But can I guess? - I don't know if I know the answer. - I think it might be Brooklyn 9.9 because you directed the pilot and there's like 100 episodes. - I would say. - With the residual standpoint as possible. - I would say the most interesting dimension of this from a residual standpoint is the Lego movie by virtue of it being partially live action. Is the rare animated movie that is both covered by the writer's guild and the director's guild. And as such, it actually delivers sweet resist. - And we do get mailbox money from both, both from having both. - Yeah, whereas like a lot of animated movies are not that way. - And we did voices in the two. So there's like, there's that too. So there you go. - My Cougan account is flowing. - That's right, we can have coffees on us. All right, well thank you very much, the Lord, Chris Miller. Thanks to everyone for coming. We really appreciate it. - All right, that's the show for today. I wanna thank my guest, Bill Lorde, Chris Miller. Lucas Shaw as well, producer Craig Horoback, art director, Jesse Lopez, and stuff to know Sanchez. And a special thanks to USC Film School for hosting us and the ringer crew for helping us produce as well. We will see you next week. (upbeat music)