Looking Back, Looking Forward

- There's always something good out of a bad situation that you can find if you just stop and look for it. - Dang, I think we could just end it there. We got more to wrap up, don't we? (laughing) (upbeat music) - Hey there, I'm Riva McIntyre. Welcome to my podcast called Living and Learning. Joining me, as always, is my co-host and very good friend, Melissa Peterman. - Well, hey girl, how are you? - I'm doing wonderfully well today, beautiful day to day. - Good, I love to hear that. - You know, we originally started this podcast because of my never-ending curiosity, you know, everything, you're like a cat, which is so much. - I am always curious. - You're like, it's curious, that's what everyone always says. That Riva is just as curious as a cat. - About everything, about growing aging and love and friendship and really everything that makes us human. It's been a dream to do this show only because Melissa Peterman's doing it with me. - You make it fun, Mally Pooh. - Oh, thank you. - And to have such fascinating guests join us, we've had wonderful guests join us throughout the season. We're really, really lucky about that. As this is our very last episode of the season, today we're going to look back. We're gonna recap our most memorable moments and that's gonna be hard to do 'cause there were so many of them. And we're gonna reflect on what we learned, what we've been thinking about since then, and we've had some time to let it all sink in a little bit. Then we're gonna look forward to what's up ahead, you know, like the holidays and a brand new year. So you guys, make sure you stay tuned. - You know, we were so lucky because for our very first episode out of the gate, we had two of my favorite people. We had Leslie Jordan, who is just so funny and hilarious and walking sunshine and Lauren Elena, who I just adore. And Leslie, I mean, we could have gone on for hours and hours. He made us laugh so hard. So let's just take a listen to a few of our clips from our first episode about friendship. - Welcome to our program, Mr. Leslie Jordan. - Wow! - Yeah! - That's wonderful. It's funny, as you get older, I'm 65 now. I've noticed that it's not that friends follow along the wayside. It's said, as you get older, you get more home-bound. "Shall we suddenly go home?" I made a decision. I'm not making this up. When I turned 60, I'm 65. I said, "You know what, at six o'clock, the curtain goes down. "I'm not gonna go out. "I don't like to go out at night." And people said, "Well, you've got a dinner with us now. "I don't want to." (laughs) "I'm going to let you." And every night, six o'clock, that curtain goes down. And I'm in my pajamas. And I've been happier now than I've ever been. You can tell your friends, "I don't want to." They go, "Well, come on." You know, and I don't want to do that. I'll go to lunch with you. We'll go to lunch anytime you want, but six o'clock, the curtain goes down. And I think that's a lot to do with friendship. (upbeat music) I love Leslie's honesty about this. When you feel so strongly about, "No, I don't want to." I think that honesty goes a long way with friendship. So Melissa, we're friends. You can be honest with me. Do you feel comfortable turning me down for plans? You know what, in all honesty, I think when we first met on the show and we were just getting to know each other, I would have been scared to say no to you if you asked me to go to dinner. You could have been like, "You know what, Melissa, "can you come on over and help me move stuff out of my garage?" And be like, "Yep, yep, ma'am, I'll be over there with time." But now that we're friends and I think, you know, we've gotten to the level that you pushed me into a hot tub when I'm fully dressed. Now I can say no to anything, like we're that close. You were so curious to say, "What do I, what's she's got in her basement?" Oh, it says, "Let's go see what she's got." But I'm gonna add to Leslie's thing. If you said, "Hey, you want to go out and let's go to a real nice dinner place." And I'm just like, "No, I'm too tired. Go buy, get some take out and come over to the house." Then we can play cards or run me cube or something. No, I think you're good at that. And I think you're, and do you feel pressure, depending if it's a friend, is it easier with people you know well to do that? I mean, obviously, is it? It is easier to say. No, I don't want to do that. I don't feel like going out, but I'd love to get with you. So let's get take out and either go to your house or my house so we don't have to dress up. We can just stay on our jammers. I think that if there is one thing we've learned in 2020, it's just the ability to just say, "You know the things you're dreading." You know you don't want to do it. When you say, "Yes, it's coming out of your mouth." And you realize, "No, I don't want to do that." I would rather just stay at home with you and come over and bring food and let's hang out. So I love that you're comfortable saying that. Yeah, okay. So why don't we hear a clip from our chat with our other lovely guest, that episode, Ms. Lauren Alaina. Ladies and gentlemen, Lauren Alaina. Woo-hoo! Wow! Do you think it's really important for you as an artist to nurture younger country artists that are coming up in a mentoring sort of way? I don't know that I mentor so much as just befriend and support. That's a mentor. I think that might be the definition. I think that's the definition. (laughing) Believe it or not, you are a mentor. But just that communication of I'm behind you, I got you back, is there anything I can do for you? That's what I think is very important for the ladies and country music, of reading music, of any company, of any workplace, community, church, for the women to stay together, have each other's backs and to be able to comfort or support, just to listen helps it off a lot. Yeah. And for the ones that have been there and done that to give you some advice 'cause you've been through it. Right. I have little girls that come up to me at shows. I wouldn't say they're necessarily artists yet, but future might be artists. Never know. Seeing the impact that my music has on them and seeing their videos online, singing my songs and I can't even explain how that makes me feel. And if someone could ever someday feel about me, the way that I feel about you. Oh, how can you like the best? Oh, thank you. I'm very proud of you. And ever saying you've accomplished when you're a good girl, I really do mean that. You know, really, you say that you don't think that you've been a mentor to anyone, but it sounds like you maybe have. I mean, Lauren Flatout said that she looks up to you and knowing that you believed in her meant so much to her. Are there any other young artists that you befriended or supported early in their career that looked up to you as a mentor? Well, I can say Kelly Clarkson, for sure. Kelly and I would go on vacations together and have deep talks about the things that bothered her or how she should handle it. And I didn't try to take place of a manager by any means, but just to discuss it and tell her how I handled it when I had that situation happen to me. Terry Clark would come in my dressing room and sit on the floor and we'd just talk in chat when we were turned together. So things like that, just hanging out with girlfriends that are also in the music business and just say, oh man, that was crap when we had to do this. And I think just having conversations and knowing that somebody else is going through the same things or had gone to the same things that you're dealing with now, that just really helps. What about you, Melissa? Have you ever mentored anyone in your career? I try. I try. I try to give a hands up to anyone who wants to do comedy. If everyone, you know, when your mom's friend calls and says, you talk to this girl, she wants to, she wants to do comedy. I'm like, you just say yes. Talk to them. You know, always say yes. Have your girlfriends kept you through this weird year of COVID and quarantine and everything? Well, they delivered alcohol to me sometimes. So that's helpful. What's their number? I think just, you know, being okay if you want to talk and being okay if you don't want to talk. That's what a real girlfriend to me is like during this time of like sometimes you feel like connecting and chatting and in the beginning, I think we were all like Zoom mean and trying to do that. And then sometimes it really isn't that all you really need is little space and then maybe just to check in to go, how you doing, but just knowing that they're there and that they're going through the same thing. And I think girlfriends are just like mentors. It's just nice to talk to somebody who knows what you're going through. Absolutely. Women have to stay together, especially in times like this. I don't know what I do without my girlfriends. And speaking about girlfriends, the next guest we had on Forgin Your Own Path, Dolly Parton was hysterical and lightning, that episode was so special. Everybody loved it. I did especially. I just absolutely loved having her own. Are you kidding? It was my favorite episode. She just is so iconic. Let's listen to some of the clip from Dolly Parton's episode. We're here with Dolly Parton who's going to now give us her five tips on life. Her what she calls Dolly isms. Five new Dolly isms, lay them on us. To me, one of the key things is to thine own stuff be true. I learned that years ago. And I think that's the mistake so many people make. They have too many people coming at them from too many directions. So you've got to stay focused on who you are. It's great to have a good spiritual base if you can because that kind of keeps you angry. People that don't believe in God, they kind of wander around. And if you don't believe in God, believe in that higher wisdom in yourself. So just stay true to you and you will be all right. That's the perfect. That's number one is to thine own self be true. What is number two? I guess you'd say never ignore your roots, your home, or your hair. That's a perfect perfect and what's your next tip a loose tongue can lead to broken teeth That's a thinker. I said thinker dolly. Oh my gosh, and here's one of my favorites too And I believe this with all my heart prayer is not a formal affair It's more a come as you are love that one. Yes, I do love that one. Okay, and anyone who says you can't take it with you Have never seen me pack I Love it. Love that. Hey, dolly. When did you start caring less about what other people think about you? Well, I don't think I ever did care because I always knew who I was and God knows who I am And it hurts my feelings because I'm a very sensitive person and early on in my career things that were said and Something for truth or not, but even if they were true. It's still hurt if they said it a certain way Yeah, yeah, but I just really I cannot let that Stop me. I cannot like I say it hurts my feelings, but it doesn't stop me I think about what people say though in case there is a certain amount of truth in it And I try to correct that and if I see that it's just BS. I just go on and think well, that's their problem not mine Okay, that is amazing. What dolly isms Resonated most with you Melissa. Oh, there was so many my favorite was I like prayer is not a formal affair. I like that one Also is like take care of your home your hair and your roots, which I feel like that isn't that hair too like making sure that My roots are coming in. I love the one when you had introduced her and she's oh, yeah, I'm not all that. I'm not even all there They just come out of her. Just rolls off her tongue. Does somebody follow her like a court reporter and just take down She says every day. They must you know, it's she's like Loretta Lynn when you watch dolly You see that honesty what you see is what you get that's what Loretta with dolly and That's what I have picked up from those two iconic women be yourself the fans are so smart They'll know when you're faking it. They know when you're not Be in yourself and being true, and it also helped her She said something about that it helps her to if she is criticized or somebody does say something mean about it It doesn't really affect her because she's that's who she knows who she is and that can't hurt her because she's been authentic and true to herself Yeah, what you said about not caring what people think You know that is so hard once you get to a point in your life where You go in the closet and you can pick out something to wear because you like what you're wearing instead of What's everybody gonna think about what I wear? I heard you know what I said in the episode about Rick Warren saying don't worry about your wearing to a party Because nobody's gonna look at you. They're gonna be worried about what they're wearing to the party So and she she agreed with that she said be happy within yourself. Don't try to impress everyone else I love that I think that come and that comes with age right and you know speaking of age I loved our aging episode with Jane Fonda. She's a very interesting woman for sure Let's let's take a listen to a clip from that conversation Hey, Jane. How you doing? Well, hi there If somebody has done something bad to you at a period in time Every time you think of that person you tense up and you feel angry and Hatred maybe and the neural pathways in your brain are kind of there's a rut that's been created But if you can revise your attitude about that person and Manage to forgive them if you can maintain that sense of forgiveness The neural pathways can be altered all of that and that takes practice too. Yeah, you have to keep doing it over and over and over again That is the most important thing that I have to offer in terms of aging You know when I was in my late 60s early 70s I was just amazed at how could I felt I spent a lot of my life depressed But as I got past 65 nothing kind of brought me down so much what I learned is that longitudinal studies have been done of people over 50 and men women day straight married single It didn't matter what it showed was that after 50 They're tended to be less anxiety less hostility more of a sense of well-being in The majority of people So we would Jane talked about you know these studies on people who are over 50 who had better mental well-being Which I'm excited about because I know it's getting easier for me to say it now, but I will be turning 50 This year. So it was very encouraging to hear that you know your mental health. It's that people over 50 They're just they're better off mentally. I mean, that's true, right? Well, I think it is I'm 15 years over that I think it's very true because all that crap that's up there What are they going to think who's gonna listen? Who's gonna care? You don't care anymore. So you've got all this clutter That has been cleaned out of your brain. So yeah, you've got more time to think and listen and Watch the leaves turn color and listen to people who are smarter than you are Give you advice you never quit learning and I love that about it Well, that's what I loved about Jane too because I think when we talked to her I think she's she's when she's 83 years old and she looks amazing and she was talking about I'm gonna be doing a table read for Grace And Frankie like as I'm turning 84 and she talked about it like she has never stopped Evolving and learning and open to new ideas and that idea forgiveness like who you were when you were 40 Maybe not who you were when you're 50 and who you were at 60 like we're allowed to change. We're allowed to evolve and Grow and dolly said it Jane said it and you just said it like as you get older you just don't you don't really care and I think that this year Has made you really like put your things in perspective that what was important? Maybe in six months ago a year ago is not that important anymore and I I hope a lot of people take that less than away From the time we're in right now even if they're not yet 50 It can be 30 and take it and learn it. Yeah, you know when I get stressed out and a little overwhelmed I Have to say what am I missing here? Oh, I know it's the things. I need to be grateful for Sometimes I get a little bit in the pit of oh my gosh. This is not this is not this is not and I can't and I can't and I can't and I'm like Well, wait a minute. Where's your faith? Where's your where's your belief system look at this place? You get to live look at this country look at this state look at this town look at your friends your family your health your happiness I'm like, oh, yeah, and then I tell that bad voice go away because I've got so much here that I'm thankful for and then it's just like The sun comes out from behind a cloud and goes you sure do have a lot to be thankful for 2020's been a bitch. I said the other day 2020 has been a bitch, but there's so many wonderful things that have come out of it being still my Relationship and fallen in love with Rex Lynn. It's just all been so sweet that part of it and if the pandemic and the quarantine hadn't happened We wouldn't have gotten to know each other as well as we do. So there's always something good out of a bad Situation that you can find if you just stop and look for it. Dang I think we could just end it there. We got more to wrap up Don't we? And that brings us to our next episode which was Oh my gosh, okay to our listening audience we do have to tell you I want to tell you this Situation because when we we did this what was our second episode? We were going to do it. Yeah I think February was the first time we started taping this one in Nashville like pre-pandemic and I had just seen Rex what two or three weeks before and that's when we started our conversation so at the beginning of this dating episode We were talking about oh, let's do a profile on rebound. What kind of guy do you like and I was looking over at Melissa Like I'm not going with this. I don't like this and so we pretty much because you were kind of already smitten I was even though they're very much smitten. Yes. Okay, so that we all want to know where since that was February And you've already alluded to it. The episode and dating did air. Uh-huh. I need to ask how did Rex Feel about the episode so I sent it to him before I gave my approval and I was drawn up in a night. I called him and I said What did you think he said about what I said Rex? What do you think about the episode? He said? I was very flattered. I am flattered that you sent it to me to let me listen to it I said did you like it? He said I couldn't have said it better How our relationship has flourished and grown and getting better every day So I was thrilled that he was thrilled about the episode so Everything's going great. Here we are months months months later and still in love. You all make a good team Thank you very much. I really liked that. It was fun. Well, even though you know You are taken Mm-hmm. Our dating episode was still awesome and I love their guest Mandy Lynn Catrone She had so many interesting things to say and I follow her now and I just love her so let's take a listen to her clip You know, I think it's important not just that you love someone but also that you like them and that you continue to not just cultivate love, but to cultivate liking. Like something Mark and I do is, I'm such a nerd about this. This is very like research based everything in my relationship, but we have a date night once a month and we take turns planning it. It's just like something fun that we do together that we wouldn't normally do. So it introduces some novelty into the relationship, which lots of research shows that's really good. The novelty produces dopamine is one of those brain chemicals that you deal falling in love. And so when you do something fun or exciting, you tend to attribute that not just to what you're doing, but the person that you're with. Does he ever say like, she's researching how to be spontaneous? (laughs) Of course, it's very accurate, critique of me. But no, he's very gay. He's always on board, which is like such a good quality. Her discussing liking, overloving. It's very important because I was going to go back to mind and Rex's relationship at the early stages. He would always say, I really like you. I really like you. And I was waiting on the big four-letter, I love you. But he wouldn't for a long time. But I realized how important it is to like someone first before you fall in deep love. So that was very important for me. And I totally agree with that. Like him first. If you don't like him first, that love's going to be really shallow. - Yeah, oh, absolutely. I mean, I know you're in the fresh bloom of romance and he probably still, you know, wear shirts that have not missing buttons. And, you know, maybe not socks with sandals. Like you're in it. You're in the romance, Reba. But I've been married 21 years and I will tell you what, the reason I've been married 21 years is that I like him. I've always liked him. And, you know, we will still write cards to each other now that say, I love you, but I also like you. And we know that just means more. And our friendship, you know, John and I were the same way where we weren't, you know, we had time to get to know each other as sort of friends before that big L word came. Again, I would have liked it sooner, just FYI guys. We want you to say it louder and earlier than we do. But I realized that foundation of liking somebody is huge. And, and Mandy Lynn was so on and so smart and wise. All right, so Mandy Lynn was great. But we also had one of our favorite people and one of her good friends, Kristen Chenoweth came on to talk about dating and she, well, we've known her, we've known her maybe a little bit longer than me, but we've all known each other for a long time and she's just so awesome, had us cracking up. So should we take a little listen from Ms. Kristen Chenoweth? Sure. All right, let's do it. Roll it. [MUSIC PLAYING] My daddy used to tell me, Kristen, if you have more than three dates with someone, it's too difficult or maybe there's going to be too much overcome, do not continue to date them. And I thought, oh, hogwash, I'm going to do it. And, you know, that I spent my 20s and 30s and a lot of my 40s doing that very thing. I never believed him. And then what happened is, because I'm loyal, because I'm a person that doesn't like failure, I stay too long with the fair, with too many people, not bad people, the wrong people for me. Here's the best dating advice I was told by Jerry Chenoweth. Never fall in love with somebody's potential. Dang. That's a t-shirt. Yeah. Love that. So that's the best advice. What's the worst advice you've ever gotten about dating? Give him another chance. He didn't mean to. Maybe you caught him on a bad day. He was tired. Good. If it works great, if it doesn't, but bye. No. In the nicest way. You know, Kristen is a talented lady. She can sing. She can act. All of the above, she's so smart. One thing I really did admire her so much about was listening to her father. And she had so many great quotes from him that I went away saying, oh, my gosh, I love that. I think Jerry and Dolly Parton, would probably get along really well because they just say the wisest things all the time. And yeah, and she also quotes a lot of his sayings in her book. And that was really good. I read her book. I loved it. And she was so open and talked about her worst dates and some of those moments. And I guess what I liked about hearing it again since I'm like the old married lady is that I look at both of you. I think probably a lot of people will look at both. You go like, you're so beautiful, you're kind, you're smart, you're funny. You've got a lot of things going through. How could dating be so hard? I think about all my girlfriends really that are single. And I look at them and go, you're a catch. You're all catches. Why are men or whoever just lining up to just take you out? Because it's, I think 2020, dating in this world is hard. And it's harder than we think as those who are watching on the sidelines, living vicariously through you. So I just loved hearing about her bad dates and her good dates and she seems very happy now. I believe. Hope so. I sure hope so. I think so. You know, but being happy, being in love brings us up to our next episode with all of that. You've got to stay in great health. So our next topic was about wellness, Tabitha Brown. This was so much, this was a wonderful episode. I absolutely loved it. Tabitha Brown was always discussing healthier options. So I think it was a really cool episode. Y'all take a listen to this. All right, as I promised, we have our expert today. Melissa and I are thrilled to welcome to our podcast, Tabitha Brown. Hey, Tabitha. And love there. So excited. Thank you for having me. Tabitha, I love how you still make Southern style comfort food. But in a healthy way, I need that. I always tell people, I show them stuff eating non vegan food because I ain't like how it tastes. I love, you know, some good fried chicken and now for our mushrooms, right? I still make migrazy, I still have cornbread and greens and mac and cheese and yams and oh my gosh, everything I always had is just I don't have to meet with it, right? Right. And I always tell people, too. We have to remember what we really are craving is texture and it's taste of plants. Nobody ever craves the taste of meat without seasoning. Good point. And so if I could figure out how to make plants, have the right texture because I already know how to season it, and then I was all right. And that's what I've done. And I always tell people, figure out the vegan option for your favorite non vegan meals. Okay. What about eggs? Eggs you can't have. Can't have that. Anything that comes from an animal. Yeah. But I like that. We're still like trying to slice some stuff in though. That was good. I mean, Tabitha, what about cheese? I mean, you can have like a pizza, right? You know? That's the ones that they count. I think Tabitha was a hoot. She was very educational. She had me thinking about a lot of stuff. And I even watched that episode about what the health. So it's just very educational. Keep an open mind. Don't you think? I had been following her and watching her videos. And I just think her and her family and everything that she's put down to the world is just so positive. And it starts with food. And I love that idea that what you're putting in shows on the outside. And I want to, I think she'd be really proud of me because I, and I'm not getting, this is not like an endorsement or shadow because I've just tried it up. But I've been ordering from a place called purple carrot where they send me the ingredients to make my own vegan stuff at home. And I've been trying them. And what I love about it is like when they send me the ingredients, it puts my mind in a way to create my own recipes and like think about ways to create vegan food at my house and just give it a try. So Tabitha, if you're listening, I'm doing it not every day. And I think it's just, you know, just nice to like take meat off the table once in a while. But I love it. I love to quote about that meat, we never really, no one wants meat that doesn't have seas meat, that it's textures. And that's what we're all really craving. So I just found her inspirational me too. And I did it. I'm a vegan chef now too. Well, congratulations. Thank you very much. I went vegan for almost a week. And then I had chicken steak and seafood. And remember how much I miss all of those things. And one thing I remember her saying, everybody's different. Yeah. I'm a vegetarian. I like all of the food, but I like being able to be open to all of them. But yeah, I loved her. She's awesome. She is awesome. And then we got to talk with Chrissy. I got to meet Chrissy at the award shows and through her singing already a huge fan of her and her acting. She's got a great handle on self care. Y'all, let's listen to a clip from our talk with Chrissy. Chrissy Metz. Welcome to the show. I love Chrissy. How you doing? I'm good. How are you? Chrissy, do you have the daily mantra? Yes, mantra or mantra? I think tomorrow, however you'd like to say it, but lately it's been Surrender and Trust is my mantra. Oh, love that. Yeah. It's a practice. It's a practice. That's big. Especially now, like everything that's going on, and I just have to surrender and trust that there's a bigger, better reason for what's going on and why it's going on. And then also the small things in my life that seem trivial compared to what everybody else is going through. So yes, surrender and trust is my mantra. I love that. Yeah. I love it. Thanks. What's yours, Melissa? You were saying earlier, tell Chrissy. I had said that my sort of life, when I have ever have moments where I'm walking into a situation where I'm overthinking it and thinking about what I need to do. I just say, you know who you are. So be her. And that's all we have. Cool. that. And attitude is like, why am I overthinking this? Listen, you know who you are. So just be her. You don't have to be anyone else. Don't worry about it. And so that's sort of the one that has been a life, or as long as I can remember, sort of my big time mantra. And my mantra has always been on treat people like you want to be treated. It's as simple as that. That's so beautiful. I love getting to know her in this format. This is what I've had so much fun being able to do this podcast with you, Rebus. Because a lot of the people that maybe you knew or we knew a little bit in this format where you get to take the time to actually have a long conversation with somebody, you get to know them in a different way. And I just thought I really got to know Chrissy in a different way. She's so wise. She's had her life story is different and interesting and she's overcome some stuff. But she's just such a sparkly wise, joyful person. And I really enjoyed getting to know that side of her. Yeah, it did too. Have you been taking care of yourself this year any different than before since quarantine? I have really great days and then I bad days. And I think what I've learned from everybody we've talked to is it's okay to forgive yourself for the bad days and just try better tomorrow. And also that sometimes what your body or your heart needs and maybe that is a whole apple pie. Then maybe you do need that. Oh wow. Didn't somebody tell us that? And you went, can we find the clip or whatever guest told us to eat a whole apple pie, is it in there? I'm not that I really have. Well, I'll tell you what I've been doing. Look, I've got to tell us. I've got the time to go walking more. I've got the time to sit on the back porch or go ride or tend to the garden. I mean, now we've already tilled it back up. But because of the first freeze and everything has happened in the first, but taking time. Time is our most valued commodity. I absolutely love having the time to go do things that we didn't get to before. I will say I have. I have been walking more and getting outdoors and that has been so helpful. And we have been eating better because I do have time to cook. Like my Riley is home, you know, for home. He's homeschooled. And I mean, I like to play lunch lady. I have a hair net and everything. He doesn't enjoy it, but it's hilarious. Hey, we'll look back. He will one day realize how funny I am playing the lunch lady. But, you know, today, normally I would have thrown something in a bag for him and sent him off to school. But today I made black beans, chopped spinach, roasted red pepper case adeas for his lunch for you. That's cool. Oh, am I. Am I taboo the brown now? Oh, my gosh. Thank you. So I've been cooking more than that that's been lovely. Well, the thing that's really coming up that's, uh, that I need some help with is how we're going to handle this holiday stress. Right, you know, I usually, John, I usually we host about 20 to 25 people in our backyard outside and we're not doing that this year. But I think the good news is we are creative people. We can figure out how to do things in a different way that save. So I think we're going to have a smaller outdoor event. And then I think since I won't have to be cooking for 25 people, and I'm going to go volunteer that morning and serve some food for some people who can't. There you go. I spend that whole day like I got a clean and got to get this. And I got 37 things in there. And I'm like, you know what? We're having like maybe six people. Yeah. So basically what you're saying is take the focus off of me and more on others who are less fortunate who need maybe a meal, a smile, a good dolly part and is them just something to make somebody smile. All right. That gives me my goal for the holidays. Thank you for that. Do you have a podcast that I can listen to all the time? I do have a podcast. Interesting. Spotify new episodes come out. This is my podcast voice. I'm working on it for a lot of days. Is it good? I think it's very nice. Very soothing. Thank you. Thank you very much. Here's to a happy holidays to everybody. Speaking of holidays and faith, that's going to be our transition into the next episode, which is faith. We had two great, great guests. Many Downs and Lauren Dagel, they were talking about finding your space and questioning things. I really like our faith episode was one that was really important to me. Stay tuned after the break. We'll be right back with more. We've got a very lovely guest in with us today. The F Downs. Hi, ladies. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be here with you all today. Obviously, you do things beyond just four walls of a physical church. What is the difference between you, between organized religion and your own personal spirituality? I think both are really important, because I think they kind of help each other out. Personally, I'm not great at cooking, but I practice it at my house sometimes, but I really love going to the cooking classes, a whole foods, because I watch an expert do a meal, and I'm surrounded by other people who want to learn the same thing as me. Great analogy. It took me a minute. I was a kitchen one, but I had to find it. That was a really good one. That didn't take you long at all. That was a great analogy. And so I think both matter. I think you should have your own spirituality. You should be asking questions when you're reading the sacred text that you read. I love learning corporately. I love singing corporately. And I'm in a room full of a couple of hundred people, and we're singing it to each other. But I think a personal relationship is really important in your spirituality, because in the end, it is just you. Annie was always, and she always is to me, so uplifting. Well, what I loved about Annie, Reva, is that I think that the way that she talked about her faith was encompassing everyone else's faith as well. And I really liked that about her, and I loved, by the way, the whole food analogy was fantastic. We have to give her props for that one. That was a great one. I miss our little church. I miss the fellowship and seeing everybody. It's inspiring. It feeds me. And praying can't happen anywhere, but I like the community. Our small groups. I enjoy that. I love the fact that when we have us across this, I can text my prayer warriors and say, "So and so is doing this. We need prayer. This is the situation. Every now and it just makes everything better. I feel so whole when that happens. So my spirituality means a lot to me. And listening to Annie, I really enjoyed her take on it. Now I had no Lauren Dagle for quite a while, because she and I had gotten to sing on the ACMs together. I still consider her a young woman so wise-worn to her years. Her approach to faith is really refreshing. Let's listen to a part of our talk with Lauren. Singer and songwriter, my good buddy Lauren Dagle. So we had a little question earlier. How can you give encouragement to young kids searching for their spirituality? What do you say nowadays to kids? Because of my process of being alone, that's what I always say. I say, go find a closet or your bedroom and just let your bedroom be this place that you can come alive and ask questions and dream and think and ponder and let it be just a space that you can live your freeest self in. And you'll start to see God answer you in a way that's really profound. For me, it doesn't have to be a universal way of communication, it'd be different. Yeah, it is. I think so. I just think it's fantastic to say it's okay to question because we shouldn't shame. Question is a good thing. It's how you learn. It's how you evolve and grow. Yeah. Oh, love you. That episode, I'm bald. How many times did I bald when I cried when we were sitting in the room with them and it got me. She's smart, lady. I'm not convinced that she is not an eight-year-old prophet in the body of a gorgeous like twenty two-year-old woman. I really, I didn't know that she had had a childhood illness, so I think maybe some of that of her own history of having to be alone and time being still maybe really helped her find her faith. Yeah, it's such a young age. I think that's incredible. I think that's happening to a lot of people nowadays with the quarantine and the pandemic that we've been going through. I think people are asking more questions, why, why now, why is this happening? Well, we've lost a lot of people, you know, they've passed. And so I'm sure this is a big year for why is this happening? But in another way, I just have to give it up to God. And so in a way, this has made me ask more questions this time, this twenty twenty year. But also it's, it's, I just have to continue saying, God, I give it to you. You know what's going to happen. I pray for your will and walk in faith as best I can. Good lands. What would I have done without the good Lord guiding me with my three step children, Shauna Brandon and Chess and then having Shelby and that Glen and Doyle was really neat because she came on as one of our guests and she was speaking on being a model, not a martyr. Do you want to hear a little clip from Glen and Doyle? Sure. Let's do it. my goal as a parent was to never. hurt my children. Okay? And so when I was faced with the question, will I abandon myself again? Or will I abandon everyone's expectations with myself? I almost chose, I'm just going to abandon myself again. And one day I was braiding that little girl's hair and I was looking at her and I thought, I'm staying in this marriage for her. But what I want this marriage for her. And if I would not want this marriage for my little girl, then why am I modeling bad love and calling that good mothering? Yep. We are trained as mothers, as women, to prove our love by ceasing to exist. Because if we hold up martyrdom as the epitome of motherhood, of parenthood, then that is what they will strive to become. My point being, the epitome of motherhood is not just slowly dying. To give up everything for somebody else. Because that's not a gift. That is a burden. The guilt you feel like she gave up going back to school because of me and you got it, you would feel guilty. You'd feel horrible. Is it going to be a fatherhood martyrdom? No. Of course not. Not at all. Of course not. No. We don't want mothers to slowly die to us. We want mothers to show us how to bravely live. Good deal. The thing that hit me so hard is that the woman who gave her career up who lived her life, I carelessly threw her children with my mother. Then I come along and we drag Shelby everywhere we went. If I had a show, Shelby went with me. She'll be adapted to our lives. We did not adapt to Shelby being in our lives. And I've seen other people who have done that and I think, wow, did I do it wrong? But I had a job to do. I had people who depended on me. So I had a child who added to all of that. So I don't feel guilty of the way that I raised Shelby except to the point of coming back to me again, as it usually does. I missed out on so many things that Shelby did that I was not there because I was off doing a movie or having a concert or something else. That's the part I regret. But letting Shelby see his parents' work is normal and I work very hard. I know he did. And now Shelby is a very focused, hardworking young man. So, you know, would I do things different? Yeah, I guess I could. Should I have? I don't know. What I would say to you is that had you been that parent that like gave up your dreams of, you know, becoming a legendary singer, actress, movie star, all those things, if you had given that up, Shelby wouldn't be the man that he is today. I agree. You know, it's probably because I didn't let him win it. Backgammon when he was a little boy. Well, this all goes back to you while I need to feed up backgammon with me. It goes, I can't lose every time, Breaver. I can't lose every game. I think we're doing it great. Yeah, I kids have turned out really well. I'm very proud of all of us. And then on the other hand, it was really amazing to have Thomas Red. I've known Thomas Red since he's a little bitty boy. And oh, man, to talk to him about being a dad to his three little ones, oh my gosh, it's just like, wow, you never thought you'd see the day when you saw him as a little bitty kid hanging out with your son. And his lovely wife Lauren, she's, she's an amazing mom. She really is. Hearing from them together was a real treat. Let's listen to a clip from that conversation. So what's the big difference between the way your guys are raising your kids than the way you are raised? What are you doing different? I think, I think if you were to ask our parents, our parents in the beginning of us, starting to become parents, they were like, y'all are just too strict. I feel like my parents were both like, why don't y'all just, why don't y'all just let them eat ice cream, you know, at 10 o'clock at night. And we're sitting there going because you don't have to put them to bed, you know, and because they're crazy when they eat sugar late at night. And just, I think you're different parenting styles. I mean, I think you either kind of go exactly how your parents parentage you or you go clearly opposite or you kind of do a little bit of both. And I would say we're kind of right there in the middle of the way that our parents parented us compared to how we parent our kids. Yeah, my dad was fairly strict. Both my parents are really, they're goofy. They're just, they love life and love adventure. And so I think I pulled that from both my parents and I try to make things adventurous and fun and and not take life too seriously because it's just, it's not worth it. I feel like there's just so much in the world that in, of course, a lot of it is because it's on social media and you're able to see a lot of the good and a lot of the bad. But I think even more so now Thomas right now are just trying to place that emphasis on just being kind. In whatever situation you're in, if you're, if you're handling it with kindness and love, you're probably doing the right thing. I really enjoy talking to both of them. I think I call them friends. Can I call them? They're my friends. I think we can always learn something more about parenting and how to improve. Maybe not how it is nowadays 100 percent. Maybe it's not 100 percent what we have taken from the way our grandparents were raised, our parents were raised, our cousins were raised, but take the good cherry picket, take the good from all and you'll know in your heart what's the best ways to do and how you should raise your children or your grandchildren, how you're supposed to parent them. I mean that's a huge responsibility and that's when people say I want to have a kid as you better think about it because that's the hardest job you'll ever have. So the cancel culture that was very educational for me. Jen hatmaker she discusses moving forward from mistakes and Caramel Brown talks about acknowledging those mistakes. Did you know Jen hatmaker before had you ever met her before? No, I hadn't. No. I loved her conversation. Do you want to hear a little bit of a little bit about? I would love to listen. Let's hear a clip. Yes. I think there's something really powerful about being a person of integrity who can say I did say that and I no longer stand by that. You know and if I could go back I that I wouldn't have said it that way or I wouldn't have said it at all or I wish I had that back but I'm older I'm wiser. I've grown. I'm sorry for that but I'm no longer in that space. I think ownership and like personal responsibility goes a really long way as an antidote to cancel culture. Yeah and then genuine sincerity matters. I learned a lot from this because it goes back to when I had said things in interviews and sometimes it's taken out of context not all the time. I will gladly say yes said that wish I hadn't of but I don't know that I would have said yes said that I wish I hadn't 10 15 years ago. Now I can gladly and honestly say that's not the same person that I am today. I love how much you loved Karamo. I did I did I really do think the world of him is a really great guy. Well you want to take a listen to one of his clips because I love that you loved him too. What advice would you give somebody if it was a friend of yours someone you loved who did say something what advice would you give them. Acknowledgement and I think that's key not just for cancel culture but also in your own interpersonal relationships that someone's feelings are valid and so I'm always about like acknowledging what someone is feeling in that moment and so if someone comes up to you and says you hurt me even if you don't know that's right say you know what I heard you I acknowledge that I might have heard because the other person's feelings are valid and I think that helps to ease the tension and people can then start having a conversation that is more open and honest versus being on the defense. I feel like I've gone to therapy here. You know what? So many things have been like an onion just peeled back and how you approach people how you set back and listen how you go back if you've done something to somebody and you say I'm sorry please forgive me. Yeah. And those words right there if that doesn't open a door that's been bolted shut nothing with. Yeah. This is getting to me. I pay for this therapy. So Ruby you know you got emotional during this episode. What about this conversation got to you? The forgiveness part. Let's just show a little grace. Cut on some slack. We're not perfect. None of us are. So I think it really got to me that if you do say I forgive you then let it go and mean it. It mean it but it's hard sometimes when people hurt you you've got to continue to say I forgive you. I forgive you. I forgive you. If we would forgive and walk away wouldn't this be a better place to live in and yeah it really choked me up. I even changed my mind a little bit about cancel the cancel culture. I think I came in a little bit more of that reactive place that we're all a little bit in right now which is somebody said something he said what oh done I'm done with them you know I don't know I was a little bit more reactive yeah and I love that I needed to be reminded that we all need grace we all need a moment to evolve and then if we write people off immediately then the conversation stops I really loved that idea like what's wrong with having conversations we all need to be having more conversations. In the minute you tell somebody they're done and over and don't want to listen to anymore or write them off, the conversation stops. And that is not a good place for any of us to be in right now. Very true. That transitions into our next subject, the reinvention. Heather Havrleski discusses finding what's missing in your life. And then Derrius Rucker gives reinvention advice. That comes off of cancel culture in the way to me. You're kind of cleaning house and then moving forward. Please welcome to the show Heather Havrleski. Oh yes. It's so easy to reinvent yourself just kidding. It's not that easy. The first tip I'd say is look around and ask yourself, why do I feel like I'm missing? And sometimes it sounds a little bit negative to say, what am I missing? But it can be something really simple. You might at first say, oh, what I'm missing is I want to fall in love again. Or I'd like to be much more rich than I am now. And much more beautiful while I'm at it. Usually if you look beneath these kinds of like surface level, you know, most obvious answers, what you'll find is something deeper, which is sort of like what I want is more romance in my life, for example. Like it's not that I want to fall in love again. I just want to have a more romantic sense about how I'm living. Sometimes it can be things that you're just embarrassed about because they seem silly. Like, I actually care how I look and I want to lose some weight or I want to get in shape or I want to change my hair color, any number of things. So it's sort of you have to dig deep and make sure that you're honoring your truest desires basically. Melissa, is this ever applied to you? Do you ever feel like something was missing and you had to go out and change your life in order to get it? Yeah. I think we all have those moments in our life like, well, something just seems off. Like, why am I not happy? Why do I not feel motivated? Why am I saying yes to things I don't really want to do? And it's because you're you are missing something. It's not what you're looking for. It's what you're missing. It's like, Oh, I actually like more time at home or I'm missing music in my life. I'm missing these sort of things. And I thought that was interesting that it's not really what you're going to find. It's like, you're probably missing something if you want to read about yourself. That's all I agree. That's my idea of like starting small too, like maybe making baby steps. I mean, not everybody can be dearest and go from, you know, the biggest band in the world from hooting the blowfish to then going out and crushing it again in country music. Like, sometimes some of us got to start small and reinvent herself. And maybe that's just little steps of like changing your hair, changing your clothes. Yeah. But you know, like, I want to do more of this and more of that. So I totally agree with that. I do too. Did I fangirl too much, but with dearest? No, I'm not much. Cool. No. But I really feel like I've learned so much more about him in this conversation. He's very, very humble, but his blueprint for reinvention rooted in authenticity, really struck a chord for me. Let's hear some of that conversation with Darius. If it's really who you are, do it. Like that's really, that's the thing is you can reinvent yourself with a really great reinvention. Like Madonna. When Madonna re-inventes up, she's just bringing out another part of who she is. And me coming to country music wasn't me. I'm just bringing, singing, bringing out another part of who I am. And I think a lot of times when pop artists come over to country, that's what their downfall is. It's not authentic. You're doing it to have it. You're not doing it because you love the music. You're doing it because, you know, somebody else did it or you think you could have a hit and you don't believe it, you know. I would say to people that one of the reasons I think a lot of guys in country radio really liked me is they don't ask the same question when you go, so who's your favorite artist? You know, and guys, you know, you, Dolly and Kenny and you love them, but I would always say "Radi Foster." You know, as we, you know, how do you know who Radi Foster is? I live for Radi Foster, you know. But if you're going to reinvent yourself, make sure it's part of who you are because it's not. I mean, I think people see right through it. They see right through it instantly and they're like, that's not real. And, you know, you might have a moment where they're like, oh, that's good, but it's not real. What I loved about Darius' conversation, I mean, among other things, you know, being a huge fan of everything, is that I didn't really know how far back his love of country music went. Yeah. And that that truly was his first love. Like you think about him and you think about hooting the blowfish and like they were everything, they like, they were the biggest thing, you know, going. And then that his first love was country music and that is why he was so successful and it is so successful in that genre because it's authentic. And then I'm always impressed and inspired by your ability to continually reinvent and say yes to things that are maybe a little bit scary to you. Well, thanks very much and that's one good gift. I guess I have an ignorance and action sometime, you know, aren't you afraid of trying that out? Why? Ignorance is bliss sometimes, I guess, because you've got to get out there and try it. And the reason I tried so many different things is because I was curious and I wanted to have fun with it. So I think that's, that's a really good thing to do is try to reinvent yourself. It doesn't have to be huge. Just try something different. Make sure that it is definitely rooted in who you really are. Exactly. Exactly. So I'm going to be a 22 year old Broadway starlet with a high metabolism because that's genuinely who I am. Go for it, girl. Thank you. So I hope everybody is nice and polite to you. That's going into our next segment, which was Manor's. Oh, this is a good one. Well, thank you for introducing that, Reba. I know I was supposed to introduce the episode on Manor's, but you took the load off of me. I'm so grateful. Thank you. You're so welcome. Micah Meyer on modern day etiquette and Jay and Allison DeMarcus on raising their children with proper manners. Both are totally different, but we got a great education from each of our guests because this episode was one I really wanted to get into because social graces are so important to me in general. I love learning about etiquette standards in 2020 for Micah. Let's hear some of her great tips. If you ever are sitting next to someone and you're trying to start conversation or something, it's called the WWHC. Okay. And you could have a conversation with anyone like this. So you start with what, why, how, and then you give a compliment. It is a formula that I personally use. I included in both my books. It's so good. Okay. Why was it in London that you felt like you needed to learn more about etiquette? What was it about London that made you feel that? Being the only American at an all British company, I didn't feel like I fit in. Why were you the only American in a British company? Well, really it was because, you know, I traveled it for love. I went and I went for love. There we go. And I'm always up for a challenge. So I thought, why not? Okay. How did the romance want to? I'm married. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Here we go with the big C-com. Good for you. You know what, Reba, I really felt that I learned a lot from her. So I know that you really do have great manners. But did she give you anything to add to your manners arsenal that you have? Well, like the W's, that's so easy to just ask those four little words to people who you're meeting for the first time or you've known forever. In other words, it's that you're listening and you're interested in what the other person has to say. Yeah. And how much fun did we have with Jay and Allison DeMarcus? Oh my gosh. You know, I knew that was going to be fun after watching their TV show DeMarcus Family Rules, but I did enjoy hearing their take on manners as parents. Let's listen to see what Jay and Allison has to say. Listen to this little clip. What are like the three most important manners? Please and thank you for certain addressing adults as Mr. and Mrs. and I would say cleaning up after yourself, not leaving a mess. That's one of my biggest pet peeves. Like if you're going to get out of a bunch of dishes and you want to eat ice cream, hey, there's a price you pay for that. That's taking your dishes and washing them off and putting them in the dishwasher. We're not going to leave the house a mess. Because I think the main thing is you just want your kids to be good people. You want them to be kind. Well, like Rayba said, you know, you love your kids, but you want people to like your kids. Absolutely. Everybody else to like you. That is so true. You want them to be healthy and to be kind because you think before you have kids, you want them to do all this and be all of this. And really you just are so grateful if they're healthy and you want them to be good people. And that's why Rayba didn't let show. We start talking till he was 25. Male, did you learn anything from the demarcasses that you felt like you could apply to Riley? Well, I learned that actually I think that their parenting is a lot funnier than mine. So I'm glad they're the ones with the TV show because they're hilarious. So much never that funny. They know the core parenting things of manners doing this and that. But at the same time, let them be the kid that they're going to be. They didn't sweat the small stuff. I thought they were great. Yeah, I agree. And I loved our episode on rejection because we had our lovely lady Rita Moreno. She discussed her own personal struggles to overcome and speaks on acting and anger. She's lovely. I love her. I love tears. I think it was one of our best episodes. Really I do. Let's hear some of our conversation with Rita. How do you do it? How do you deal with rejection, whether it's personally or professionally? And God, you ask me this because I'm a good person to ask because I had a lot of that. my youth and and actually even when I was in movies, early movies and stuff, anger and reacting angrily does nothing but hurt you. It makes you ultra defensive. It makes you helpless, really. And that's what you don't want. That's what you really don't want to happen. - Right. So Reba, how did Rita's wisdom make you rethink rejection and how to handle it? - Well, I think it helped me realize that sometimes rejection doesn't need to be taken quite so personally. If you can kind of roll the wind up and let it bounce off that window, you'll be able to move forward quicker and easier. If you can just let it go. And that's hard to do, but it is the best thing to do, let it go. - I'm getting better as we get older, but it's hard for me to tell people if they hurt my feelings. It's really hard for me. I'm learning that and I know you have to, 'cause if you don't tell people sometimes, how are they supposed to know? They can't read your mind, you know? So you have to say it out loud. I loved her. I think she's amazing. - Me too, I do too. Any recent moments where you had to handle something not going your way and you dealt with it differently because of this conversation with Rita? - Well, 2020 didn't go my way and I'm just trying to handle it the best I can. - Moving home! (laughing) - No, yeah, I think I learned a lot from her. - She did, I did super inspired. - Very, very much so. (upbeat music) - Well, that's a good wrap up on our season one of Living and Learning, podcast with Raven McIntyre and Melissa Pederman. - Wow. - Yeah. - Melissa, now that we're full of all this newfound life wisdom from learning, it's time to talk about living. What's coming up next? The holidays, a new year. - Yes. - There's a lot to be grateful for, but this is not an easy time. You know, a lot of us are going to be missing people this year, whether it's loved ones we lost, I can relate to that in a large way. Or family and friends, we can't be near this year because of the pandemic and quarantining and everything. It's more important than ever to be grateful of the joy and love that we have in our lives, even the spot hard times, don't you think? - Mm-hmm. - So, what are you most grateful for it as you reflect on 2020? - Falling in love, having downtime, so you can be still and appreciate the wonderful things God has given me, hanging out with my family, the first part of the year because of the COVID quarantine, and then getting to hang with my family, having the time to really listen to songs to go and record and I am trying to remember the people who have passed out and just remember the good times. How about you? - I'm grateful, I'm grateful for a lot of things. I am grateful for my family and for the time and the slowing down, I'm grateful for sweatpants. I feel like those have been such an added bonus and joy in my 2020 as well. (laughing) I've learned that I'm grateful that everything that I've learned from this show, even, and from doing this and talking to our guests, like that it is okay to struggle sometimes. It is okay to be rejected, it's how you handle it. It's okay to change and evolve and that we're all changing. And none of us are too old to learn something new. None of us know everything that we can't learn something from someone else. - True. - We can't walk in each other's shoes, so maybe we can take 25 minutes and listen to somebody else talk. And so that's been wonderful for me. And I'm grateful for this. This is this truly in a world where we haven't had a lot of outside things happening. This has brought me so much joy getting to do this with you and I'm looking forward to 2021. I really do. I think we're all in a place where it's hard for us to find those glimmers of hope and joy. But I don't think it's hard. I have a huge amount of hope for 2021 that it's gonna be fabulous. And I'm grateful that my grandma Bev is 99 and doing well during this crazy time in my family's healthy. And I was a pretty good list, I think. - Yeah, I think it's a wonderful list. - I learned so much making this podcast and I'm so grateful to our wives and wonderful guests who shared their time and their hearts with us. They were so generous and we really had such a great time making new friends and connecting to old ones. Thanks, Melissa, for being my lovely sidekick, my great friend. And here's to many more years as we get to explore these big topics together. Let's do it. I hope our talks inspired you to stay curious about all these big questions in life. As for me, I'll always be living and learning. So see you next time. Living and learning with Rebel Macking Tires is a Spotify original podcast. Posted and produced by me, Rebel Macking Tires and my dear friend, Melissa Federman. Our executive producers are Liz Gaetley, Yasi Salek, Gina Del Vack, Danny Trevatch, and Justin McIntosh. Also produced by Dylan Rupert. Michael Hardman is our editor. Original music is composed by Doug Seisman. Special thanks to cultivated entertainment, Leah Edwards, Alex Nelson, Robert Adler, and Casey Simonson for Production Support.