Long Game: The Bernie Sanders Effect with Michele Norris (Pt. 1): AOC, Progressive Politics and the 2026 Midterms

um one of the phenomenon of American and Vermont and Burlington political the political process which concerns me very much somebody gets up I'm for this I'm against this rather than an understanding and debate on the broad philosophical issues which separate the American people the basic issue facing the United States of America is whether or not this country has the resources to provide decently for all of its people whether we're gonna give gigantic tax breaks for the rich is this gonna be the theme for your gubernatorial this is gonna be a theme that I intend to be speaking on so long as is I am involved in political life hello hello and welcome I'm Michelle Norris just weeks ahead of the critical midterm election we are here in Vermont not because Vermont is a battleground to watch but because in many ways the outcome of the election depends on the movement and the candidates inspired by the independent senator who got his start right here as a socialist mayor on the shores of Lake Champlain welcome to long game the Bernie Sanders effect real change does not come from the top on down it comes from the bottom on up with the future of democracy on the line and voting voters hungry for change money out of money in your in the heat of the midterms a champion for working people everywhere Senator Bernie Sanders a longtime outsider is in the heart of the fight how we respond to this moment will impact the lives of our kids and future generations across the country voters are about to deliver a report card to the president and his party it's exciting whether to send a Republican majority back to Congress or instead put the Democrats in charge as a check on President Trump's power but there's another tension at work have the Democrats pick the right candidates to win you can trace that tension all the way back to 2016 when Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders ran for the Democratic nomination for president the day we stand here and say loudly and clearly enough is enough Senator Sanders is not a Democrat himself he never has been but he took his electrifying relentless renegade campaign all the way to the Democratic National Convention as an independent it was a bitter and bruising campaign interesting comment but you didn't answer the question I did and in the end Senator Sanders himself did the honors of asking the convention to nominate Hillary Clinton and I move that Hillary Clinton be selected as the nominee of the Democratic Party for President of the United States even though he lost the primary Bernie Sanders built something during the campaign that endured. He created a grassroots movement for a new kind of progressive politics, a roadmap for Democrats who want to do what Bernie did. My MSNOW colleague Steve Bannon, a longtime Vermonter and historian of Washington, has been following Senator Sanders for years. Bernie Sanders became a prominent voice leading a movement of sorts, which cleared the way for others. People like AOC, Mayor Mamdani, Abdullah al-Said in Michigan. All of a sudden, you see other candidates who are singing from the same hymnal. All of a sudden, they're starting to win primaries and they're starting to win campaigns. This year, candidates across the country are running on progressive platforms in the mold of the 2016 Sanders campaign, all direct, I guess you could call them descendants of the movement created by Bernie Sanders. In Colorado, a Democratic socialist named Milad Kiros, who was endorsed by Bernie Sanders, defeated a 15-term incumbent in the Democratic primary. In Michigan, a Sanders-backed House candidate ousted another incumbent Democrat. In Montana, Sam Forstag debuted on the national stage at a Sanders rally last year. Backed by Sanders, Forstag jumped into the primary for Congress and won. And then, of course, there are the marquee Senate races. Abdul al-Said in Michigan. Shouldn't be this hard to afford a second bag of groceries. Shouldn't be this hard to pay your rent. Angie Nixon in Florida. If wanting your neighbor to afford a second bag of groceries, you should pay your rent. You should pay your rent. -For their insulin is radical, they call me a radical. -And Peggy Flanagan in Minnesota. -This campaign was about the many versus the money. -And in Maine, where Democrats see a real opportunity to unseat Republican Senator Susan Collins, a display of both the promise and the pitfalls of the Sanders movement. Sanders was key to the rise of Maine Senate candidate Graham Platner. Remember him? The senator endorsed Platner early on, then called on him to drop out after an allegation of sexual assault. The candidate denied it but did drop out. Sanders then endorsed the replacement candidate, Troy Jackson, who is now trying to flip the seat. -They're showing up because they know, deep, deep down in their soul, that something is not right with our government right now. -There are Sanders-aligned, Sanders-inspired, and Sanders-endorsed candidates running all over the country, up and down the ballot in this midterm election. But even at a time where the president's approval is in the basement, victory is not guaranteed. And it has a lot of Democrats nervous about whether this is the right moment, when the stakes are so, so high, to test whether a Bernie Sanders playbook can win general elections. -Electability is not a word into Bernie Sanders' vocabulary. He does not believe in electability, because as far as he's concerned, whether you're running in Burlington, Vermont, or Billings, Montana, people want the same thing. They want health care. They want a working wage. They want to be able to send their kid to college. The test of Bernie Sanders right now, in 2026, we're about a month out from the election, is, can his candidates succeed? Can they win these general elections in tough battleground states? If those candidates succeed, then he is a kingmaker, and he will -- and his support will be sought after in 2028 and beyond. If those candidates fall short, it's a very different story. Bernie Sanders starts to look at it -- starts to be seen as a villain among Democratic leaders. And so we'll see soon enough. -If they -- if he is successful, if many of his candidates do win, will it change the party? -I think it will. I think that it has already changed the party, and I think it's already changed politics. -Tonight, when Democratic hopes are high and the stakes, if anything, higher, we'll hear from the congresswoman who has been barnstorming the country with Senator Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. And we'll hear from Mayor Zoran Mamdani, elected last fall as the mayor of New York, with a Sanders endorsement. But first, let's hear from Senator Sanders himself. We sat down with him on a campaign visit to California. -I have wanted to talk to you for a long time, and I'm so glad we have a chance to sit down. -Thank you very much. -So if you're ready, let's go. -Let's go. -Democrats right now are desperately trying to win control of the House and perhaps the Senate. They're locked in several consequential races, some races that people didn't think were going to be competitive, and it turns out that they are. And in some cases, to the surprise and perhaps the anxiety of some establishment Democrats. If they are able to pull this off, and if the Democrats are able to win control of one or both houses, what do you want to do with that power? -I think at this particular moment in history, when people are so frustrated with the direction in which this country is going, and it's not just Trump, who, to my mind, is the most dangerous president in the history of the country. It goes beyond that. It goes to the fact that people are looking around them. They're working hard. They're going nowhere in a hurry. They get sick. They can't afford to go to the doctor. They can't afford housing in many cases. We want young people to have babies, have good families. It costs a fortune to have a baby. Child care is terribly expensive. The cost of college is kind of off the charts. People are worried about climate change. They're worried about AI. They're worried about all of these things. They look at the Democrats, they say, "Nah. Look at the Republicans." They say, "Yeah, they look at Trump." They say, "People are giving up in many ways." -So what do you do, then, if you actually take power? -I will tell you what we do. I will tell you. The time for old-fashioned status quo policies and status quo politics has got to end. People are in trouble. They want bold action. Some examples. You tell me -- I know I'm being interviewed here -- but why are we the only major country on Earth not to guarantee health care to all people? Canada does it. Europe does it. The world, Australia, New Zealand, every bloody country on Earth can do it, and we spend twice as much per capita on health care as other countries, and we've got 85 million uninsured. You know what we do? We pass Medicare for all single-payer. We guarantee health care to every man, woman, and child. You know what else we do? At a time when we have more income and wealth inequality in America today than at any time in the history of this country, remember the Gilded Age? Much worse today. You know what you say to the billionaire class and all of their greed? They're getting richer and richer. In some cases, these billionaires pay an effective tax rate lower than a nurse or a truck driver. You're going to start paying your fair share of taxes so we can provide for the needs of our people. of working families. At a time when families can't afford to send their kids to college, you know what we say? Radical idea. We go back to where we were 50 or 60 years ago, we make public colleges and universities tuition-free. You think that's radical? It ain't radical. It's exactly- Or in California. It used to be the case right here in California. City college in New York City, state colleges in Vermont. So what the hell is going on with all of the so-called progress? The question that people are asking is, got all this new technology, all this AI and computers and space age stuff, why is it that 60% of our people are living paycheck to paycheck, struggling to pay for the basic necessities of life? That is the issue that Democrats have got to tackle now. But you said something interesting. You said people look at the Democrats and they're not so sure that they like what they see. And they look at the Republicans and right now polls show that they're not happy there either. So why should they believe that you and the candidates, large number of candidates that you've endorsed, can actually push that ball forward? That's what we've got to do. So let me be clear. I think it is absolutely imperative that in the next month we do everything we can to elect Democrats to the House and Senate and take control of both bodies so that we can finally put a check on the most dangerous president in the history of the United States. That's issue number one, all right? But that's not good enough. I'm an independent, you know, caucusing with the Democrats. And some of my Democratic colleagues, they go around and they say, Trump is terrible. Trump is awful. And they do it in all kinds of creative- and intelligent ways. They're right. It ain't good enough. We got to take Trump on, but we have to do more. You have to implement- You have to do more. What's more? Implement an agenda that works for the working class of this country. So it's interesting. You are an independent. You have never officially joined the Democratic Party, but you have had tremendous influence over the party. And some would say you have been responsible for pulling the party farther to the left. And when I mentioned the, the surprise and anxiety among some establishment Democrats, I just want to lean into the anxiety a little bit. Indigestion, some might call it. And part of this is that the worry that with some of these candidates that have great, had great success in the primaries, that it might make it harder for the party as a whole to reach out to centrist voters, to moderate voters, to win back those voters who at one time may have voted for Democrats, but have drifted into Donald Trump's camp. I strongly disagree with that. You disagree. Tell me why. The reason- Do you understand their worries, first of all? Well, I understand everything. And usually these guys are, you know, some of the, you know, when you talk about the Democratic Party, understand what we're talking about. Often we're talking about billionaire or very wealthy campaign contributors, and they have their views. I respect their views. I disagree with their views. My view is that millions and millions of Americans, working class Americans, voted for Donald Trump, not because they think that we should give a trillion dollars in tax breaks to the one percent or throw 15 million people off of Medicaid. That's not what they voted for. What they did is for years, they heard the Democrats say, oh, we're going to do this, we're going to do that, we're going to help you. And they didn't. And that's true. Democrats pushed through terrible trade deals, which cost us millions of good paying manufacturing jobs, et cetera, et cetera. They lost faith in the Democratic Party and not unjustifiably. All right. My belief is that if you are prepared to fight for working families in any state in this country, people will come over and support you. That's my view. And what we have seen in this particular campaign cycle, starting off with Mamdani in New York City, he took on the whole oligarchs, took on the Democratic establishment, the Republican establishment, President of the United States. But you know what he did? He had 100,000 people knocking on doors, and he won that election. You got 100,000 people knocking on doors, you ain't going to lose. And that's true all over this country. Our people- So you say that's the antidote to campaign finance is to actually hit the streets? Well, you've got to deal with campaign finance. Of course you do. You've got to get rid of this corrupt system. But right now, at this moment, the way to beat big money is not just another TV ad, it is putting people out on the streets. Go to the ground. Go to the ground. An observation. When I mentioned the anxiety that this may be causing Democrats, you smiled. You seem to. Do you enjoy this role? One question of enjoying it. I believe what we're doing is absolutely right. They have an idea. This is the old establishment Democratic Party. We got a whole lot of money, and we're going to have some fun. You want to run? We think you'd be a good candidate to run for U.S. Senate, for Oregon. What do you think? And we got $20 million to put behind you. We're going to raise all kinds of, and we have really good consultants. They had really good TV ads. We got opposition research, show the world how terrible your opponent is. That's how we do politics. That's how they do politics, you're saying? That's how they do politics. So how do you do it? Because you're- All right. We don't sit around selecting who the candidate is. What has been very interesting in this particular cycle, you've had, I don't know, I would say the significant majority of the candidates that I've never run for office before. Some of them have been active community organizers. They've been trade unionists. They've simply been young people who came out of nowhere, who were disgusted about U.S. foreign policy regarding Israel or whatever, and they ran for office. All the young people around them say, hey, you're right. Let's get involved. Took on the establishment, and they won. So the difference is, the establishment is top-down politics. We got the money. We'll select the candidates. We'll call the consultants. We'll do TV ads. Ours is bottom-on-up politics, aggressive politics. Knock on doors. That's how we run elections. Long game. The Bernie Sanders effect continues right after this. To fully understand Bernie Sanders, to fully understand his worldview, you have to wind back the tape. Back to the 1940s childhood, defined by the struggle to make ends meet. Not having enough money was with us 24 hours a day. Where nonetheless, he had a solid foundation, a place to live, safe streets, food in the fridge. When I was growing up, living in a rent-controlled apartment, my brother and I went to excellent public schools. I went to Brooklyn College for a year and transferred to the University of Chicago, where I graduated with virtually no student debt. Despite the fact that my family had very little money, we were able to survive on my dad's income alone. How many working-class families do you know today where if mom wants to stay home, she's able to do so? So what the hell has happened? Why have we gone backwards? Bernie and his older brother, Larry, grew up in working-class Brooklyn, in a small three-and-a-half room apartment. Their dad, Eli, was a Polish immigrant, a paint salesman. Their mom, Dorothy, stayed home to take care of the boys. Money was tight. The household was tense. It was something that my parents always had to deal with, something that the kids always knew about, and something that I've never forgotten about. For Dorothy Sanders, the dream was getting out of that three-room apartment, getting a home of their own one day. She did not live to realize that dream. She suffered from a heart condition and a lack of money to treat it. She died shortly after Bernie Sanders graduated from high school. She was just 46. His dad passed away two years later while trying to drive himself to the hospital during a heart attack. As biographer Dan Chason tells it, Eli Sanders crashed his car into a bank. The bank of construction barriers outside the hospital entrance. That was Bernie Sanders' New York story. His Vermont chapter actually began when he was even younger, a teenager. His brother, Larry, brought a 13-year-old Bernie Sanders along on a subway ride to a new place in town, right next door to Radio City Music Hall, known for the famous Rockettes. The Vermont Information Center. It was new, and a New York City attraction that had been announced in the New York Times as a place to get reports on skiing conditions in winter, opportunities for sailing and swimming in summer, farm vacations, country inns, all of it an escape from the teeming hubbub of New York City. The Vermont Development Corporation was hoping to seduce and entice New York City. In fact, it was an escape from New York City, and it was an escape from New York City. For young Bernie Sanders, the pitch was magical, almost intoxicating. As Larry Sanders said, Bernard loved the countryside. Vermont was a fantasy, but an important fantasy. A few years after college, Bernie moved to Vermont, and there he would get his start in electoral politics. Today, he doesn't talk about his childhood in Brooklyn all that often, but when he does, especially when he is back at the old apartment, it all kind of clicks. Growing up here, I learned the major lesson that I've ever learned in my life about economics, and that there are millions of families in America today who struggle every single day to take care of their families. And our job in this campaign is to create an economy that works for all of us, not just the one percent. It seems like Vermont is where you learned how to fight for the things you believe in it seems like brooklyn is where you learned what to fight for um growing up with eli and dorothy is that correct your parents and your brother larry a small apartment you all slept in the living room um what did you learn there that animates every single day of your life it wasn't an intellectual i mean what i learned and felt as a kid is the pressure of money on my family okay my parents were great parents but i used to fight all the time my mother my father came to this country with nothing from poland my mother wanted to own her own home she wanted to own her own home she died young and she never achieved that so we lived in a rent-controlled apartment and there was always the tension in the house we can't afford this and they're arguing over this and that is the same experience the stress that we're having right now is the stress that we're having right now is the stress that we're millions and millions of people feel right now economically that's what i learned as a kid that's something i never forgot and i hope i never will forget and the other thing i learned you know you talk about racism i'm jewish my father's family was wiped out by hitler so i learned what racism disgusting irrational racism can do in europe on the nazism in this country all forms of racism so i learned that as a woman alexandria ocasio-cortez next we sit down with a leading figure of the sanders movement she's known as aoc you won't want to miss it stay with us she found out she won at the same time as the rest of us can you put it into words nope it was a lot to process a david and goliath victory for a 28 year old bartender who against all odds had just beat a 10-term establishment democrat i cannot believe these numbers right now but i do know that every single person here has worked their butt off alexandria ocasio-cortez was having a whirlwind moment her primary win in a deep blue district all but guaranteed she would get the big prize a seat in congress to win the general she barely needed to keep campaigning for herself so she used her victory speech to announce something else this is not an end this is the beginning a few weeks later she hit the road alongside bernie sanders they left their democratic strongholds of new york and vermont and instead stumped for like-minded progressive candidates in places like michigan and kansas what this moment requires of us is for everyday people to do more than they have ever done before to reclaim the soul of this nation this progressive road show has become a sort of model for senator sanders and the young congresswoman from new york we saw it last year in the wake of trump's second election the pair crisscrossed the country again and they called it the fighting oligarchy tour we are witnessing an oligarchy when those with the most economic political and technological power do something about it we are witnessing an oligarchy when those with the most economic political and technological power destroy the public good to enrich themselves you know there's a word for this kind of thing corruption that fighting oligarchy tour was a success on several levels it drew massive crowds it helped frame the argument and the arsenal for pushing back against a president with an authoritarian agenda and for senator sanders it was a way to expand the reach of his pro-populist message for congresswoman ocasio-cortez the tour was also indicative of her star power do you understand the conflict of interest that is before the american people right now mr secretary in just a few short years the youngest congresswoman ever elected to congress has become one of the most influential figures on the left now she is openly considering her next steps in american politics whether to run for the senate in her home state of new york or whether to take the big leap and test whether the country would ever elect a young upstart from the bronx all right let's get started i sat down with congresswoman ocasio-cortez about an hour from her district just after she visited a community that was fighting the opening of a data center so you're here you were here today with governor hokal um and it's it's interesting uh congressman pat ryan uh ryan was also there with you i think it's fair to say that both of them are considered to be more moderate than you are but it's interesting that you and your mentor uh senator sanders have been saying for some time that there's a little bit more common ground than people recognize between people who are perhaps on the left and people who are more toward the center and especially when it comes to things like these ai centers these data centers that's right you know as the gap between the rich and the working class get bigger and bigger and as the middle class or our understanding of the middle class starts to really disappear in this country and more and more people are going to be more and more people are going to be more and more people are going to be more and more people are going to be more and more people that had previously felt okay find themselves more squeezed than ever i think that this has allowed the salience of class to really emerge in our politics and a lot of what bernie's been talking about forever where i come from as well in really forcefully taking on the corruption of corporate lobbying and fighting for working class issues these issues have started to gain ground with more and more everyday americans across party lines as well our message on health care on wages and taking on corruption and abuse of power in people's own communities and when you mention the working class you know when you talk about working class voters i think in a lot of people's minds and for all kinds of reasons when you think about a working class voter you think of you know what sarah palin would call joe six-pack um they look a certain way they are often a certain color um they live in a certain place what don't democrats understand about working class voters the definition the way to talk about it the way to reach them yeah well you know i think to your point there's a lot of euphemisms in politics it's like talking in code almost that's right and for a very long time working class was a euphemism for race and gender and it was really about a very specific and only one slice of the working class and we are talking about the actual working class in this country which is people who are they they make a living from their job from working that they're trying to put food on the table put their kids through school and if you're lucky be able to save up for a rainy day but increase in the people are not able to do that and i think that there is no discussion about the working class unless you are talking about all of the working class in america which is a multiracial working class do democrats do that though you know i'm sorry i'm asking you to critique the party but this is an important conversation it's a very important conversation right now because i think that the right has tried to scare a lot of democrats and i think that's a very important conversation right now because i think that's a very important conversation right now because i think that the right has tried to scare a lot of democrats and i think that's a very important conversation right now of speaking forcefully about our full coalition when we talk about unemployment in this country black women are experiencing the brunt of unemployment statistics the most they are the most laid off by doge efforts in the federal workforce and when we talk about latinas as starting some of having some of the highest rates of starting small businesses in the united states and you also are talking about why you're not doing the right thing and i think that's a very important and i think that's a very important thing and i think that's a very important thing and i think that's a very important thing working class areas as well in our ability to make rent afford their homes we have to talk about these issues in a way that addresses everyone and includes everyone without leaving people behind and i think that one of the erroneous takeaways from 2024 was that really embracing the and and i think that one of the erroneous takeaways from 2024 was that really embracing the rich diversity of our country is a political liability and i couldn't disagree with that more i actually think that it's not about these these things are not competing interests and these two things can be talked about at the same time so you're saying they're like a double helix almost right they you can't discuss one without the other well there's a there's an another interesting double helix right now in american politics and that is the progressive left and the democratic establishment and your party is going through an interesting transition if the candidates that you have endorsed are successful in the general election and that's the big test because it's easier in the primary so now the big test is the general election and if they are elected in large numbers what message does that send to the democratic party and in particular the the Democratic establishment. Because you know there's some debate about this, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think a big part of that message is how we win has changed and is changing. And a lot of the tropes and two-dimensional thinking that comes out of consultants in Washington are not only erroneous, but they are insulting to what America actually is. And I can't tell you how many times I've heard things like or heard things insinuated like a Muslim man can't win in Michigan or that a candidate like Angie Nixon can't win in Florida. And I actually think it is. I think it is largely through candidates like their examples that can really win back places, especially in places like Florida, that many Democrats have written off as a lost cause because there just hasn't been an investment and an understanding that in some states a multiracial working class coalition is actually the only way that you can win and the only way that we can win these states back. So the question is, will that work in the general election? Yes. You know, I think we are putting a major thesis to the test. But it's about time that we do that because we have tried this old playbook over and over and over again that only a certain kind of candidate can win in a swing seat. I'm very excited that there is a class of candidates that has emerged that is speaking forcefully to working class issues, rejecting corporate PAC money, and rejecting lobbyist money, and being more accountable to everyday people and mass politics as opposed to working the fundraising circuit in Washington. So you're talking a lot about assumptions, one of the assumptions at work right now. In the Democratic Party, and in particular the Democratic establishment, is that if some of these left-leaning candidates, progressive candidates, if they are elected, that they will tack toward the center in order to get things done. There is an expectation that that might happen. I think that. Is that an expectation or is it wishful thinking on your part? I don't know. I mean, I don't think that's an expectation at all. I think actually. The expectation is erroneous in the opposite direction. Is that there is this alarmism that I am seeing in Washington where people are seeing some of these candidates that have inspired movements in their own communities win primaries, and they are saying that the sky is falling, these people are wreckers, they're not here to be productive, and they are going to be a massive net negative in the Democratic caucus and in the Democratic Party. And I could not disagree with that enough. I heard a lot of this nonsense directed at me when I first got into Congress as one of the first DSA-elected or DSA-supported and endorsed candidates that got elected to Congress. And a lot of what I've heard is that it's going to be a massive net negative in the Democratic caucus and in the Democratic Party. And a lot of it is just an alarmism to serve special interests, really. If you can incite this panic about people and about these individuals who haven't even stepped one foot into Washington yet and shown themselves and proven themselves, then you can whip people up into a frenzy to be reactive in the opposite direction. I want to ask you about one particular group of people that you have had a harder time reaching. Again, your record is impressive with the number of endorsements you've made and the number of primaries that have been won and the diversity. Again, your record is impressive with the number of primaries that have been won and the number of primaries that have been won and the diversity. And I'm very proud of that. It's quite incredible. It really is. It's what America, frankly, despite what Mr. Trump thinks, is precisely what America should be. And I invite people to actually look at the list because it really is something to see. And yet, there is a group of a cohort within the Democratic Party that has had a rather sort of close relationship with the DSA. It's a very closed-arm approach to your brand of progressive politics. And I'm talking about black women, repeat voters, so important to the Democratic Party. And as I've talked to many of them in preparation for this interview, I hear something over and over again, that you focus on economic equality. And I understand that, but there is a concern that you downplay the role, the pernicious role of race in creating barriers to opportunity, that it is dismissed sometimes as identity politics. You've seen that. You've talked about it. You experienced it in both runs for presidency. What have you learned in that process about trying to reach out to that important group of voters that still need to be convinced? But you're absolutely right. Black women, older women are enormously important and reliable, the most reliable part of the Democratic base. And if I have not been as clear about my views on racism as I should have been, then I apologize for that. But I have spent my life doing my best in trying to combat all forms of racism. You know, when I was a kid, a long time ago, the University of Chicago got arrested in fighting against segregated housing. But, you know, perhaps I haven't been as clear as I should be, and we'll try to do better. You learned some lessons. Yeah. Hard lessons are good lessons. Yes, they are. Thank you! Thank you! The success of Bernie Sanders' movement will ultimately depend— on his ability to win elections, to govern from a truly progressive point of view, to build coalitions, and to win over skeptics. And some of those skeptics are people who have helped shape and run the Democratic Party for years. We asked Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez about that. And the Democratic Socialists of America makes an easy boogeyman for people on the right, but also even within the Democratic Party. And Democratic strategists down in Brazil. Someone you know, someone—people who watch us know her well. She's been in politics a long time. She was strategist for Al Gore, so she's been at this game for a very long time. And as a traditionalist, probably by most measures, she used the word extreme in ticking through parts of the DSA platform recently in an editorial that ran in The Washington Post. And I just want to tick through some of the things that she mentioned. She talked about public ownership of the largest corporations and utilities, defunding the Defense Department, which I guess we now call the Department of Defense. She talked about public ownership of the largest corporations and utilities, defunding the Department of War, eventually abolishing the police and prison system, housing for all, a federal jobs guarantee, amnesty for all immigrants regardless of their status. In her words, she says, Trump and Republicans are trying to convince voters that most Democrats agree with these radical views. Democrats must show that they don't. What is your response to that? So, first and foremost, the issues that she is raising are— We are not present in any of these candidates' platforms. So, certainly, there are—in our great diverse country, there are people that are organizing around those issues. We need to be operating with what these candidates ran on as opposed to what somebody somewhere or some organization somewhere in our country is saying. So, I think, first and foremost, we need to really recognize— I reckon with the reality of the candidates in front of us. And that is part and parcel of giving someone a fair shake, is instead of assuming what they believe, asking and hearing for ourselves what they have said on the ground. And what they are saying on the ground is that we want universal child care, Medicare for all, stronger unions, higher—making the minimum wage a living wage in this country. Protecting people's right to clean air and clean water, and so on. But secondly, I think that what we also need to understand is that we are at a very unique tipping point as a country and as a party. And what I see in someone like Donna Brazile is an individual that plays a very critical role. In the Democratic coalition. And what we need to understand and figure out is how we bring together the insurgent, working class. youth movement that is taking over the polls. So clearly the energy and the momentum is with an ascendant generational shift. And how we marry that with an astute political movement in the South that is suffering under the attacks on voting rights, on workers, federal workers that have been laid off, and how we actually create that intergenerational, interracial coalition on a working class axis and line. If we take this opportunity, and instead of seeing one another as a zero, we're going to be seeing one another as a zero, we're going to be seeing one another