Loneliness is Curable

Lemonada. That's what the book is about, preventing overdose, obviously, but also how to make sense of a crisis that feels so senseless and what we need to do to stop it. If Last Day has meant something to you, I hope you'll grab a copy or listen to the audiobook narrated by me. Go to bit.ly slash lastdaybook or wherever books are sold. I can't wait for you to read it. Okay, now let's get to the show. What's it take to be a mentor with big brothers, big sisters? It takes 30 minutes and a cup of coffee, a video game, best two out of three. It takes sharing thumbs up emojis, clapping emojis, and loaded nachos at halftime. That's how you make an impact on a young kid's life. So go on, share a few hours a month, because mentorship may sound huge, but the truth is, it takes little to be big. To learn more, volunteer or donate, go to bebignow.org. Welcome back to Last Day. I'm your host, Stephanie Whittles-Wax. To celebrate the launch of my new book, Last Day, How to Stop Losing Our Loved Ones to the Opioid Crisis, we are bringing you this four-episode mini-season of Last Day. Here in America, we tend to look at health issues, like addiction, with a downstream lens. Don't get me wrong, we need things, like emergency rooms, treatment centers, and primary care. But what does it take to prevent people from being sick? And what does it take to prevent people from getting there in the first place? There are a lot of answers to that question. But one of the most powerful, most protective, is quite simple. It's connection. Today, I'm talking to Alison Gilbert. She's a journalist, speaker, and best-selling author, helping lead a national conversation about how we can all create deeper human connections. She's also behind More Connected, a new multi-platform ecosystem combining live experiences, media, tech, and community impact to help people build a greater sense of belonging and togetherness. I'm so excited for you to hear this one. We dig into how isolation is often at the root of addiction, how important small gestures can be in relationships, and why you're probably underestimating how much your friends want to hear from you. Okay, let's get into my conversation with Alison. Well, I am so excited to talk to you. You ask such important questions about the role of connection and how it can help us in our lives. And in a time when so much of what we feel is disconnection, I'm really thrilled to dive into everything you've been doing and talk more about it with you. Well, back at you, I feel like I have been longing for this day to chat with you. What you have put in the world has really touched me. And I feel like all good audio. I feel like I know you. So this is just so nice to finally meet you. Oh my gosh, I love to hear that. Yeah, it does. It feels like you're best friends with your favorite podcast hosts, right? And when you talk about Harris, when you talk about your brother, when you talk so openly and authentically and honestly about that tremendous loss in your life, it touches all of us who listen. And so thank you. It's so interesting. I was thinking in preparation for our conversation, like, did I ever make a decision? I'm going to share how hard this is for me. I'm going to be authentic and vulnerable. And I never had that moment. I just did it. And I think that's the thing. I've never shied away. I think I'm like wired. And Harris was the same. Maybe it was our upbringing or our parents or whatnot. But there was this moment where I had been writing a lot about how hard it was. And my husband said, why don't you just put it out there and share it? And it was the most consequential thing I've ever done because it ended up connecting me to people who had walked a similar path. And, you know, grief, especially acute grief, can be so isolating. And I think this is where I'd love to start with you. You know, you have this part of your story that you lost both of your parents so young in your 20s when everyone around you is dating and figuring out, who you are, what your identity is, what you want to do for your career. It's such a fun time, right? When I think about my 20s, it's like, oh, that's the fun time. And you were dealing with— Yeah, I missed that part. Yeah, that's right. You were dealing with this crippling grief. And I'd love for you to talk about that and what it was like to suddenly be on a completely different planet, I'm sure, than all of your peers. I definitely felt pushed out to sea. And I really— I really appreciate being able to talk about it because at that time, it certainly was not something that I felt very free to share with my friends who were eagerly, as they should have been, going after it in every way, shape, and form. Going after going out. Going after the social life. Going after meeting, hopefully, their life partner, if that's the way. If that's the way they wanted to go. And for me, it was cleaning out my parents' house. It was packing up my childhood home. It was writing speeches for their funerals, picking out the dress that I would wear at their services. And it made me feel quite othered. And unlike you, when you were talking, I was thinking, well, is that how I felt back then? I don't think so. When you were talking about, you know, sure, that moment when you decided to write and put it out there. For me, I do remember the exact moment. I was really railing against the mothers in my life who weren't my mother. And I wanted to carve out space with my own voice of what it felt for me to now navigate my 20s. Without my mom. And I didn't want the mother of my boyfriend to claim that spot, even though completely well-intentioned. I didn't want my aunt to claim that spot, even though very well-intentioned. At that point, I just wanted to rail. I was angry. I was sad. And I felt I needed my space to claim this part of my life in a much clearer way than I did in my 20s. Than I could have otherwise if I kept it to myself. Totally. I've talked to so many people who have been in this position of being grief-stricken. And it's like, even if the loss is different among us, it's so the same. We pride ourselves on being so different, and especially in America, on our individualism. But really, when it comes down to it, hardship and loss is a universal sensation. And part of why the stuff with me and my brother was difficult early on is because my daughter was also dealing with this hearing issue. So I was a brand-new mom. I had never, as a brand-new mom, I had never had a baby before. And I had this vision. It's a lot of like what you're talking about in your 20s of how it was going to be. I was going to glow. And I was going to walk outside with this beautiful new baby and go in the, you know, the stroller. You had a vision. You had a vision. I had a plan. I had a movie that I had directed, starred in, you know, cast in my mind. And she was born, and 24 hours later was diagnosed with hearing loss. And all of a sudden, we were going through this test and that test and seeing that expert and living in the hospital. And at the same time. So scary. Oh, it was terrifying. Yes. And my brother went into rehab when she was a month old. It was just a lot of fear and anxiety. And I remember being so anxious. Angry and resentful at my friends who had babies and the luxury they were dealing with. Oh, you get to have this pristine newborn experience. You get to worry about diaper rash and the feeding schedule. Like the regular luxuries of parenting. Yes, the luxuries of parenting. And I'm worried about, will my kid ever be able to go to a sleepover? Will she ever be able to hear me say, I love you? Will she, you know, I mean, it was like. And that resentment piece was really at the forefront. I was resentful. Did you feel that way towards your peers? Yes, 100%. So I found myself doing something that I am completely ashamed of now. It's embarrassing, which is I would go through my days as a young mom who didn't have her own parents, completely taking count of how many people's grandparents parents. were around. What do I mean by that? At the bus stop when I was getting my son and my daughter off to school, how many grandparents were just there at drop-off, at pickup, at the sidelines as they got older at soccer games and baseball games? It was an embarrassing thing to admit to because that is a comparison that I could never win. And it was a dagger every time of what I didn't have. But over time, I found out my ways of compensating that felt really good, and it was all about connection. So who did I have? I had, in my case, my older brother. I did have my mother's sister. I did have my father's brother. Who can I share these same milestones with? And I would ask them, why text you photos when they're appropriate of the soccer game? Would you want to be the recipient of that kind of communication? And the answer was yes. And it allowed me to share those little parenting moments that I was just longing to share with my mom and my dad, but I couldn't. But that point of connection, asking permission and getting not only validation that said, yes, I see what you're missing, and I'm here for you. I'm here for you. I'm here for you. But the permission, go for it. I'm here for you. It was so nice. I love that. I love that. It's so true. It's not a replacement, obviously, but it's a place to put that. And I think it does soften that resentment. And for me, in that story I just told, I ended up connecting with other parents who had children who were hard of hearing, who had older children who were these incredible superstars. And it was interesting because I told my husband, the doctor, the experts, the people who, you know, were in charge of her care, I didn't care what you said at all. The mom who had a 13-year-old or a 15-year-old and who could send me, text me pictures of them. Oh, it's like your sisterhood. It's your sisterhood. Oh, my gosh. And it brought me out of those feelings. And truly, connection is what saved me there, truly. I think it's such a profound concept, and I think we almost take it for granted. Well, I'm listening to you, and before we go on, I have a question for you. I have a question for you. I have a question to ask you because I'm listening, and I care. How is she now? Oh, my gosh. She's incredible. Oh, my gosh. You know, it's so ironic. Not only can she go to sleepovers and hear music, she is a musical theater superstar. So she just went to a musical theater sleepaway camp for 10 days. She is in every single play. She is on leadership at her middle school. And she's kind, and she's warm. And I feel like it's an interesting thing where, her hearing loss has become a superpower because she tunes into people in this way that is just a lot deeper than I see, you know? And she's the kind of kid who, if there's a kid sitting alone, she's right there. She's just amazing. I just, I'm obsessed with her. The empathy. I love that. The empathy. Getting a good night's sleep. I need it. And Quince makes it easy to bring a little everyday luxury into your nighttime routine, or maybe just find a thoughtful gift for someone on your list. I recently picked up the bamboo sheets from Quince, and I'm just so impressed. They are incredibly smooth and comfortable. And honestly, getting into bed at the end of a long day has something I'm looking forward to even more. It's such a simple upgrade, but it makes my whole bedtime routine feel a little more. luxurious. 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Lead with facts, not fear. Teens can tell when you're exaggerating and they tune out. Ask questions. Listen. It's not one big talk. It's a series of small ones. And morning teens what not to use doesn't teach them what to do instead. Helping them build healthy ways to handle pressure gives them better options. The new drug talk is free, science-backed, and made to help parents start these conversations. Visit the new drug talk on drugtalk.org. You know that thing where you're scrolling the internet and suddenly you're three hours deep into a celebrity lawsuit? Where you hear a courtroom term and think, wait, what does that actually mean? I'm Eliza Orleans, career public defender. And I'm Taya Johnson, law professor and legal analyst. And on our brand new podcast, Criminally Online, we break down the law behind the stories you can't stop talking about. No legal degree required, just curiosity. Find Criminally Online wherever you get your podcasts. I'd love to actually shift to talking about the idea of isolation and loneliness. So I've done so much research here. You know, my first book was my feelings and my second book is like, yes, all the facts. So much research. Yes, yes. I think that so many health issues that we've unpacked in last day, deaths of despair and things like addiction and suicide and, you know, mental health challenges can be tied back to isolation. And thankfully, this is getting a lot more attention. You know, people are talking about it. The loneliness epidemic comes up all the time now. The former surgeon general went so far as to label it as a public health crisis. But on the individual level, what do we do about that? How do we begin to tackle an issue that is so big, it's categorized as an epidemic? Well, I'm a storyteller. I'm an amplifier. I can bring light to this. And some of these numbers deserve oxygen, right? Some of these numbers are really startling. Nearly half of all of us in the United States who are adults are experiencing loneliness. The World Health Organization came out with a report most recently that talks about 870,000 people around the world are dying. Prematurely, every single year, because they don't have those relationships that provide that kind of scaffolding that we all know that we need to survive. And so, to me, these numbers are startling. They are wake-up calls, left, right, and center of what we need to do. My children now are both young adults, and we know young adults, according to these stats and these reports, are suffering the most. And so, for me, it's academic, and for me, it's personal. I want my kids to live in a world where they feel seen, heard, and valued. They've grown up with phones and all those things that we have known are pulling us apart and making us feel more isolated, less connected. And so, I think this is the issue of our time. It is what is really informing much, not all, of the opioid crisis. If we go back to why people, perhaps not all, start using, it can be informed by this feeling of not belonging, not having your people. And so, I see it from all angles. And I feel like there's something we can do because loneliness, by the way, the best part about this conversation is that it's curable. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Hear, hear. Yeah, I mean, you're totally right. Addiction and loneliness are so intertwined. And I talk about this one woman in my book who is really incredible. Her name is Sarah. She was a medical student. She got into a horrific car accident and ended up, I mean, really needing painkillers, like was in severe amounts of pain and then got very addicted to them and ended up forging prescriptions and was arrested and ended up serving time. And that just made everything worse because the shame and stigma of incarceration, you know, the isolation of I'm this person who has dealt with this horrible thing and now I can't get a job and now I can't get housing and all of the sort of basic human needs led her to use more and more. And she's doing amazing now. She is a lawyer. She works with people who have been impacted by the criminal legal system. But I do think that this hopelessness and isolation keeps people using, keeps people reaching. One of the arguments that I make in the book that I really want anyone who is struggling with this or who is a family member of somebody struggling with this. It's a reframe that's really important. People do not use drugs to feel bad. They use drugs to feel better. And if we can get to the root of what that problem is and what that wound is, and we can start from there instead of you're doing this destructive thing. You're doing a destructive thing, obviously, but it is bringing you some sort of a benefit or else you wouldn't do it. Well, it's interesting. When you look at the research now, of substance use disorders, it used to be using or experimentation began with peer pressure or social gatherings. And what's beginning to happen, according to studies, is that this experimentation is no longer happening in community. It's happening alone. And so if our communities are online, if our communities are online, if our communities are online, and we're scrolling and we're disengaging on purpose, we know that I think the number is about three quarters of all people have said out loud that they see people who they care about less than two times a month in person. Imagine that. Three quarters of all people are saying that about their own social lives. And so if it's not peer pressure, it's not social gatherings that are kind of providing this fuel to being alone, then we see what you're talking about, right? It's this bi-directional, co-produced reason for substance use. You're feeling lonely, and so therefore you use, and then you use by yourself, and therefore you are lonely, and you're not connecting, and you're pulling away. And so it is this cyclical nature. of dependency where really connection can help people start pulling their own way out of it. Connection has been really proven now, the research shows, to improve the outcome of those people who are finding themselves vulnerable to substance use disorders. And that to me is very hopeful. If we know connection works, then we can bring connection into where treatment needs to happen. And so I think that's really important. And I think that's really important. And that's actually a beautiful light. Well, there's two things I want to stress. One is, I have to point out that you're completely right that people are using alone. And now, with fentanyl in the picture, it's actually quite dangerous to use alone. And it's because you cannot provide naloxone to yourself. You cannot Narcan yourself. If you are using with somebody else there, and they're not using it, then you're literally hotlines where you can call and use on the phone with somebody listening in and can call EMT for you. But this is harm reduction, right? Connection is not just helpful in terms of how we feel. It is literally life-saving in many cases. And it's so important that people understand that. I think the shame and the stigma of drug use puts people in isolation. It says, I can't tell you what I'm doing because it's bad and it's wrong. And that's really dangerous. That is such an important message. And I am so glad you shared that. That's something I actually did not know. And so I imagine there are folks listening who also are learning that for the first time. I was really moved by something that a very, very dear friend of mine shared with me. With permission, I share it with you. We talked about young adults, her son is in his mid-twenties. And it's very hard to talk about because I've known him his whole life. And he got into a significant pattern of alcohol use, marijuana use. And he went to a residential facility to bring himself support. And one of the interesting things that this particular center offers, and it's only for young men, is the importance of those peers who are now peers in this facility together to begin learning vulnerability, authenticity, sharing what's really going on for them. In this particular facility, they are addressing attachment theory that we know from parents and children and babies. This attachment theory is beginning to blossom in treatment centers as being pivotal to helping, in this particular case, young men. What are the attachments that you didn't have? How can we give them to you now? And as you are recovering, get it from each other. And so that is an integral part of my friend's son's recovery is this connections piece. And she says not every center focuses on connection. And that's been the most healing for him. That is amazing to hear and actually not surprising because I would say, you know, we've done so much reporting on men and male loneliness. And I think it really is an issue. I don't think, I know. It is concretely an issue. I don't think. I know. You know. It is. It is. But I know my friend Dave, for example, who's taught me a lot about 12-step recovery. And, you know, 12-step recovery didn't necessarily work for my brother. And it's not for everybody. But for many people, what 12-step recovery provides is community. It is a place to go regularly, every day. You know, Dave says to me, I go to the morning meeting, 7.30 a.m. And he has his people there. So I do think this is really important, what you're talking about. But let me ask you a question. Not everyone wants to go, feels like they have the capacity to avail themselves to programs. And I'm reflecting now on another friend of mine whose brother died from substance use. And towards the end of his life, because of his use, his world got so small. And so she had said that she kept bringing people from his life to him, as if her efforts would somehow show him a new avenue, a path, or remind him of the avenue and the path that had been there before, that he can get to it again. And so I'm wondering, from your perspective, what do we seek? And what happens if it's given and you're not ready to receive it? What is that balance, do you think? And how did that work for you and your family and Harris? That's such a good question. And I feel like I've learned so much about this from the harm reduction advocates that I've talked to and learned from over the years. But, you know, there's this one woman, Jessie B., who I interviewed for my book. She's got the greatest Georgia accent. She says, we can't control grown people. We can't tell grown people what to do, right? And like, she's right. I cannot make any adult human bend to my will. And I think that is what actually causes so many rifts in families, is I need you to go to treatment because your current situation is inconvenient, scary, not acceptable, embarrassing, shameful, right? To me, yes. To me. Yes, to me. You know? And like, that's something that's hard to admit, but it's true. Yes, yes. I need you to get treatment now. Now, on my timeline. And ultimately, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I think what I've learned and what I have sort of come to over the years is that our one job for the people that we love is for them to understand, I love you. I love you unconditionally. I am here for you. Instead of, you know, we were all programmed with dare, right? Just say no, keep kids off drugs, all that. I have now, I designed t-shirts. And by I, I mean, I made my husband design me a t-shirt that says care. And instead of dare, it says care. And it says unconditional love and radical acceptance. And that is my path. I am going to love you through whatever you're going through. And I'm going to stay connected to you because actually being disconnected is really dangerous. Yes. And I am going to make sure that you have the tools that you need to stay safe and alive. And when you are ready to get treatment, when you are ready to take that step I'm here to support you. In the meantime, I'm going to make sure, you know, the overdose hotline. I'm going to make sure that you are using safely and that we have good communication and that it is green lights and not red lights. And that is what I would do differently now. I would stay connected. Beautiful. Yes. I mean, it's true. No, it's beautiful. And because what you are talking about is this unbreakable tether. When the tether is unbroken, there's always this opportunity. for conversation, repair, healing. When the tether is broken, so much is lost. And so what you're talking about is actually incredibly courageous and brave because of what you said prior, which is that it's uncomfortable, it's inconvenient, it could be embarrassing. So all those things mean that you're embracing this kind of courage of messiness. You're embracing messiness. Yes. It is the harder thing to do. And I think it goes against all of the programming of let them hit rock bottom, ultimatum them right out of your life. All of those things that, what do they do? They force your loved one into isolation, which as we've discovered and decided and discussed is the worst possible thing. Yes. And for men in particular, I do want to emphasize, we talked a little bit about, but shame and stigma and vulnerability and admitting, raising your hand to say something is going on now that puts me outside of the norm is really uncomfortable. And so more and more organizations are recognizing the particular aspects of loneliness amongst men. There's this wonderful organization, I can mention it, which would be okay. It's called the Real Mental Health Foundation. It's founded by a man named Sean Lesser. I would recommend folks check that out too. And I'm also really fond of this platform called Antenna Up. They do a lot of work about men's mental health, in particular loneliness. And so this is getting more attention. There are more resources that are gender specific and it's okay to say that things are different potentially for men. Totally. From an early age, you know, there's this sense that you can't admit when things are hard, that for some reason you always have to be charging through and getting through and being okay with everything. And no matter how much burden is on your shoulders, you're kind of going to walk through it and there's no brick wall that you can't get through. And that's really hard. I'm Alia Louis-Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast, among other things, and I've got a little holiday wisdom for you. Hosting during the holidays means lots of cooking and that means your trash is going to be full of smelly, rotting food. Yuck. So here's the wisdom. Get a mill food recycler. I did. We've had ours for years and it has totally transformed our kitchen. It's unbelievable how much less waste and less odor there is now. Plus, it's so easy to use. You toss in basically any food you don't eat. Peels, pits, meat, dairy, bones. Last year, we put in a whole turkey carcass, really. While you sleep, mill automatically dries and grinds all your food waste down to about a fifth of its size. That means at night you can fill it after a big elaborate dinner and by morning, there'll be room for breakfast. Nothing rots, nothing stinks, no fruit flies. And my favorite part, using mill means none of our food ends up in landfills, which means we're doing a little good for the planet while keeping our kitchen tidy. If you want to manage your food waste in a cleaner, calmer way this holiday season, go to mill.com slash wiser for an exclusive offer. That's mill.com slash wiser. Happy hosting. A better health bet. I would like to formally request more storage space in my brain because somehow I can forget why I opened my laptop, where I put my keys, or the name of someone I met 30 seconds ago, but I can remember an awkward conversation from six years ago in extraordinary detail. So if your brain came with a delete button, what would you use it on? Maybe it's that tough breakup you've analyzed from every possible angle, an irrational worry you know doesn't deserve this much attention, the conversation with your boss you keep rehearsing in the shower. Or that one comment someone made that you're still thinking about weeks later. We don't always get to choose what sticks around in our heads. BetterHelp is an online platform that gives you space to talk about what's taking up too much of yours. BetterHelp is now in network with more than 125 health plans, with many co-pays as low as $15 for eligible members. Visit betterhelp.com. Cost and coverage may vary. Caregiving. It's the rewarding, challenging work that connects all of us. I had no idea that this was what caregiving was. I kind of just thought, like, that's what we do for our family. So many of us can relate to this. So why aren't we talking about it more? That's what we do on Squeezed. We share the stories of the ones who care. Listen to Squeezed with Yvette Nicole Brown wherever you get your podcasts. Quick, rapid fire with you. Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay, great. Okay, so I'm going to fire off a question. Yes. And then you are going to answer me. All right, so here we go. All right. If you've lost touch with an old friend, should you reach out? Oh, my gosh. Well, of course, it depends why you've lost touch, but let's assume it was just because of inertia. You know, you've moved. Then I would say 100%. Why? Because the research shows that people, generally speaking, are so surprised and happy that you've actually reached out to them. They love being contacted. They just don't want to go first. And so you go first. Yes, I love that. You go first. Okay, you go first. We're going to put it on a t-shirt. I'm going to have my husband design that one next. You go first. Okay, great. Okay, here's the next. If someone already knows you appreciate them, is it still worth saying it out loud? Oh, my goodness. Of course it is. And do you want to know why? Tell. The more we are basically in love with someone, the more we have a child who we adore, we take for granted, we assume, of course they know that we love them. We're with them all the time. But what is actually the case, that little moments of acknowledgement, not grand gestures, not the surprise birthday party of all birthday parties, but like leaving a little note that they find on the milk container in the that says, I love you, or congrats on your math test, you did a great job. Little moments of connection have been proven to strengthen our connections. You don't need big gestures, just small ones. Love that. Okay, if someone you love is struggling with a substance use disorder, is it better to give them space and let them come to you in their own time or to reach out? I think that's individual, but let me give you a broader, perhaps more applicable answer. To most people listening, oftentimes we stop ourselves from saying something that we hope to be helpful because we fear being harmful. And what happens is then there's silence, which feels awful and can actually exacerbate that person's sense of isolation. So what we do know is that imperfect help, shows support. And the most important part of this equation is showing up. So don't wait for perfection. It probably doesn't exist anyway. Love that. Are solid long-term friendships generally low-maintenance? Oh my gosh, do you have a low-maintenance? I mean, name one friendship that's completely low-maintenance. I actually have one. I have one. Do you? One. And she has been my best friend since we were little, you know, in high school. Okay, I'm going to take her number down because maybe she'll be mine. No, truly. I mean, you can't have her because she's mine. But I genuinely, yes, there's one. Yes. Okay, but yes, tell me your answer. I love that. So listen, of course not. People need to know that we care. You need to reach out. Proactivity is the queen bee of this conversation. If you're going to be waiting and being reactive to invitations instead of proactive and inviting a friend to coffee, or inviting a friend to go grab a movie, or inviting a friend for a virtual, you know, cup of tea, whatever it is, the waiting is what hurts relationships. It's like a garden, right? You need to kind of keep watering it. So good. Yes. Okay, last one. You already touched on this, but I really like this one, so I want to double down here. The grand gestures versus small gestures. What is the best way to show your people that you care about them? This is really important, I think. Listen, I think small gestures really count for so much. When my daughter was really small, I would paint these little stones with hearts, and we called them love rocks. I would surprise her every once in a while with a love rock in her underwear drawer, a love rock under her pillow, a love rock in the grapes. I mean, she wouldn't eat. I mean, to get emails and calls. Not a love pebble. A big enough one so there was no. no danger involved, yes. But she has saved them all of these years. She has a platter now full of these love rocks. I'm talking dozens. All of these were teeny tiny gestures that I think add up to having a great enduring relationship with now my young adult daughter. And do I say that little love rocks is the only part of what's made me so lucky to have a great relationship with my daughter? Of course not. But the point is, it's the little gestures, some of which don't cost anything, like, congratulations. That was a great job you did on your science test. It cost nothing. And it's just a little bit of a checkmark to say, I see you. And I love what you're doing. Oh, I love the love rock. The fact that she has them all, what an incredible visual representation of your bond. That's just lovely. I'm going to steal it. So your kids seem like, they seem amazing. I love your kids. They seem great. Tell us, like, how do you talk to your young adult kids? How old are they? They're in their early 20s? Yeah, I have a 26-year-old and a 24-year-old. Wow. And we started out this conversation, of course, talking about grief. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. grief and loss. And I'm going to go there for one moment. Because I lost my parents so young, it is super important to me that my kids have a great relationship with each other. Yeah. Because I know that I am not here forever, and nor is my husband. And I want them to have each other for when we are both not around. And so the fact that they are in each other's lives, we actually have a fun policy now, my husband and I, that whenever they want to have dinner together, whenever they find each other to have dinner, it's on us. It's on you. I love that. It's on us. So they have no excuse not to have dinner together. We just want to foster that relationship. Because we know it's so protective. I love that. It sounds like you all have so many good small traditions, which is really like this small gestures thing, right? I mean, it's like the culture of your family seems really connected, I will say. Gosh, I appreciate you saying that. I really, really appreciate you saying that. I think because my mother died of ovarian cancer and my father died of lung cancer, I know that diagnosis to loss can. It happened quickly. And it makes me double down on what I know I can count on today. Absolutely. So as we start to wrap up, which is a shame because I could genuinely talk to you all day, I'd love for you to tell us about your project, More Connected. What is it? Who's it for? Tell us all about it. So we are launching beingmoreconnected.com. Right now, I am so excited about it. It is really the opposite of what we have seen mostly about meeting new friends or going after new romantic partners. This is an acknowledgement that you likely already have the connections in your life that'll make your world feel more nurtured and fulfilling. So how do you get more from the relationships you already have? How do you deepen? The connections you already have. That is the idea behind this app, More Connected. And you could find out more about it on beingmoreconnected.com. We're so excited about it. I love that. It's about digging where you stand, right? You don't have to keep charting new waters and new territory. I love it. You're amazing. Thank you so much. I had such a great time talking to you and I'd love to do it in person sometime. Oh my gosh. That'd be so much fun. Thank you. Thank you. If you're looking for practical ways to feel less isolated and strengthen your relationships, take a look at More Connected. It's a new app designed to help you work through feelings of loneliness and deepen the connections you already have. Visit beingmoreconnected.com to learn more and follow Alison Gilbert on Instagram. Her handle is itsalisongilbert. Thanks to the Mental Health Storytelling Initiative for making this special episode possible. If you're looking for practical ways to feel less isolated and strengthen your relationships, and thanks for listening to Last Day, we are a production of Lemonada Media. I'm your host, Stephanie Whittleswax. Executive producers are me, Kristen Lepore, and Jessica Cordova-Kramer. Our producer is Hannah Boomerschein. Bobby Woody mixed this episode. Music is by Hannes Brown. Maggie Crowshore is our Senior Director of Partnerships. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Check us out online at Lemonada Media and you can find me, Anna, and Jessica at Lemonada Media.com. At Whittles Stephanie, W-I-T-T-E-L-S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I-E. We'll see you next week. Hey, it's Steph. Real quick, before you go, I want to share an excerpt from my new book, Last Day, How to Stop Losing Our Loved Ones to the Opioid Crisis. It tells the story of losing my loved ones in this podcast and the conversations that have helped so many of us understand addiction, recovery, and what it takes to prevent overdose. So please enjoy this sneak peek into what you'll get when you pick up a copy or listen to the audiobook narrated by me. We hear about the opioid crisis so often that we've become desensitized to it. It's a headline, a political pawn, a collection of tally marks that stand where our loved ones should be. Overdose deaths in the U.S. are a big part of our lives, and they're a big part of our lives. In the United States can be broken into three phases. Doctor prescribed OxyContin starting in the 1990s, heroin taking hold in 2010, and fentanyl, which surfaced in 2013 and spread like wildfire in 2016. The Sacklers, who owned the pharmaceutical company that developed, produced, and aggressively marketed OxyContin, may have lit the match, but our broken system allowed it to burn. In 2009, this preventable tragedy has claimed more than 800,000 lives. My little brother was one of them. Thanks for listening. Get your copy of Last Day at bit.ly slash last day book or wherever books or audiobooks are sold.