Local SEO: How to Dominate Rankings in Just One Week

The funnel for building SaaS products is really evolving quickly. Previously, you used to do like some type of go to market motion. That was extremely outbound led. But what's quickly evolving is founders are now making communities about their industry. They're managing these communities, facilitating them and then selling their products through those communities that they create. And the whole funnel is pretty simple. It's basically build an audience on social, get them into a community, teach them something within that community that uses the software as a tool in whatever you're teaching them. And today, this is what we're talking about. I'm having on my friend Jackie. He's been building SaaS products using this format. And we're going to spend time talking about local SEOs. You're going to get a crash course in that and then talk about his product, local rank and how they're growing it through this community strategy. And then we're going to talk about how YouTube is one of the best channels to build this inbound traffic. It's just the most buyer ready that you can create. And then we're going to also spend some time to talk about Reddit, specifically parasite SEO, how to use that to get signups and also show up within LLMs. And then Jack, he's just going to share a bunch of other gray hat opportunities from stuff that he's been experimenting with. And today's episode is brought to you by graph.com. Graph is an AI data analytics platform that helps you build dashboards and get insights about your data in minutes. You just connect your data source. It's going to sink into graph. And then you can just chat with it to build live dashboards with interactive charts. It used to be a massive time investment to learn business intelligence software like Tableau or Looker Studio to do your reporting and do your business analytics. But graph is totally changing that. There's zero learning curve. You just connect your data and talk to it in plain English. Go to graph.com to learn more or click the link in the description. And let's get started with today's show. Jackie, what's going on, man? How are you doing? What's going on? What's going on? Thanks for having me, man. It's been a minute. We were just talking about onscreen. Yeah, I didn't have you on more often. I mean, you just make you a regular like every like, you know, three to six months, get you back and tell us what's going on and all the SEO shit. So yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the SEO space changes very quickly. So especially right now, yeah, it goes crazy. It goes crazy. So totally excited. You've been building this company local rank and it's been I feel like I'm seeing it everywhere. I want to get to that at some point, kind of like all the tactical stuff that you're doing. But can you just give a breakdown of like local SEO for people? I think it's something that a lot of people don't think about. They're like, oh, I can influence basically just like lead gen that's happening from like, you know, the map pack from like Facebook ads, et cetera, down the list. So talk to talk to me about that and like kind of the fund the foundational, fundamental pieces. I'm more just curious in it, too. Like my brother works in the medical space and they own some clinics. Yeah. So, you know, I'm always trying to like apply whatever tactics I learn from that to his world. So yeah, that's kind of the personal interest as well. So I think for certain queries, when you search on Google, for example, Vancouver realtor, they'll have like a couple of sections. There will be ads, three slots, typically three to four slots, the map pack, and then the organic organic results. When you talk about local SEO, it's the map pack. And that's like where a majority of people are clicking because it's near them, right? So local SEO queries are typically like realtor near me, dentist near me, gyms near me. Gyms, Vancouver, so on and so forth. Anything that you would drive to is how I always like think about it or like describe it to somebody. Yeah, exactly. If there's like an intention like I'm going to get in my car or like, you know, or walk there or whatever, like that's when it's going to show up. So like the 80/20, if your audience wants a quick takeaway in the first like, I don't know how long we've been doing this. Sorry, two minutes will be get like a ton of reviews, Google reviews. If you want to go into sneaky tactics, we can jump right into that. Two will be get a ton of citations, which are like essentially brand mentions or backlinks or yeah, citations typically means you it'll list your name, address and phone number. And that being consistent on the internet is like a local SEO ranking factor, which is weird. But yeah, that works. And then the last but not least is probably click through rate, which means like the number of people that are visiting your Google business profile, driving to your business profile. So yeah, that's pretty much the age 20. If you get all those things fixed, you'll probably rank the like number one in your city. It's super easy right now, super abusable. Let me give you a couple of ideas of how to get Google reviews. You just, I think easiest, I just stand. If I were 18 today, I'd go stand on the street corner, start paying people $5 and just ask for five star reviews right off the bat. You'll write the review for them. And then that's it. They'll be on their way. You have like a bunch of fives in your hand and just start handing those out. Everyone will do that. Yeah. Um, you can do the same in probably like any university campus because it's local IP is unique. Um, what is it? The Apple ID or the iPhone identifiers. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Android is what it's called. Um, yeah, something like that. Um, yeah. All unique. Google will never be able to trace it. You can add all, you can like add all your target keywords in the reviews, which will help as well. Um, that goes crazy. And citations, super abusable as well. It's like, you can find like one click solutions now on the internet. Um, totally. And I don't know if it does that. So we'll probably get to that at some point of like, I think you guys submit to like a thousand. You can also like, you can, um, you can raw dog it and do it yourself. If you're just starting out, five or totally five from five or if honestly, if I'm 18, I'd be hand registering 50 of those like by myself, you know, totally, totally. If I have zero dollars in that personally in the past, literally for like, like my mom's really not that bad. You throw on some Netflix on the side, you know, like you can probably do it. And not least the, the CTR side. If you want to get sneaky with it, um, a couple of ways. An Uber ride is a CTR if you guys didn't know. So what you would do is you just go somewhere else on a walk, like a couple blocks down from your office and then set your location to like on Uber to your, uh, Google business profile, they'll drive over. And right before you get out, you'll be like, yo, I'll tip you five bucks. If you give me a five star review as well. No, stuff like that. No one will know. All right. How will they know? How will Google know? 100% 100% I know there's a ton of gaming that's happening in that in particular right now, like where people are basically, I, there's this company. I, we've actually used it and tested it. It's crazy. Um, it's called the jumper media. Have you heard of this yet? Um, yeah, those guys offer like guarantees, right? Yeah, totally. They basically, from my understanding, it's like, they piggyback off of like mobile app ads, and then basically when you're like going from one location to the other, they like somehow share that data so that it looks like people are basically going to that location. Um, we tested it on like one location and then like 30 days basically went from like the, you know, the closest area around us from like not being in the map pack to being in the map pack, which was crazy. There are only thing though is they have a non compete. So like if you're an HVAC company and there's already an HVAC company that's on it in that location, they won't like sign up that second HVAC company. Um, and so that's like the, that sounds like a benefit of it. Totally. Exactly. Second, it's the only one, right? Um, and they're really like, you know, hard, like hardcore about that. But again, just like something I've seen that's like very, uh, like very, it's great hat, right? Like, but it works. Um, I don't know how long, um, yeah, I know exactly how to do it actually. So what you would do is, okay, if anyone is like a dev in your audience, I'd love to do this with them because my, my, uh, co-founder just doesn't have the bandwidth, we're too locked in on local rank, right? So if anyone wants to do this DME on X, what they do is they partner with these walking apps, like steps apps, okay? And these steps apps are typically free. They're gamifying all the steps around your city. And guess what? They'll send you to locations where people are paying for CTR services. So for example, if I have a steps app just in Vancouver, guess what? I'm going to send everyone to index the headquarters downtown. You got like hundreds of people walking there every day. You're telling me that's not going up in rankings. Like, so yeah, it's like those like, uh, sweat coin, I think has some partnerships. You can reach out to those guys as well. Um, there's multiple, uh, step apps on the app store. But yeah, get on that. Super easy to develop nowadays. So if you just gamified, there's like some sort of like ranking leaderboard. And it's just a bunch of like people who like walking everywhere and they're just walking to multiple GMBs around the city. Dude, one and done, man. One and done. I love it. So just to, uh, uh, mirror that back to you, uh, to make it really obvious to the audience, it's basically like somebody types in a keyword, right? On Google maps and then goes that location, basically. And that is a positive signal for like, this is like a good result for that keyword, which then helps you like rank higher for that phrase. Uh, you know, it's ever somebody searching within that geography. Um, Jackie, can you talk to me, um, about, uh, uh, the citation. So you've talked to that about, you know, pretty, it's clear what those are. Um, you know, it's like stuff to think like map quest, think like four square. It's like all of these old directory sites. Um, the challenge with those, they're massive sites, right? And so if you put a listing up on there, actually getting that seen by Google is like a challenge a lot of the times. Um, is there any tactics that you have for like indexing those, uh, citations so that they get seen faster? Um, I know you've talked about in the past, like using, um, like drip pings to those citations so that like Google sees them. But I'm just curious, um, like if there's anything else or, or even just to go deeper on like that drip pings, like idea. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we use something called speedy index. It's some God, these guys. Every time I recommend them, people are like, yo, what is this? Right? Cause it's so sketchy. It's like these, um, cracked Russian developers who developed an indexer. That's like a telegram bot. All right. So it's using telegram in itself is already sketchy enough, but it's like, it's like the SaaS product built within telegram. It's crazy. Anyways, the, the TLDR of how they do it is they have like a bunch of these sites that all they do is like trap Google crawlers in there. It's kind of like, like Cloudflare does. So it's like, there's like an entrance to the site and then it will just keep like pinging itself within its site. So it traps a crawler and then every time someone submits a link to be indexed, they'll have an outbound link. So the crawler is forced to go there and forced to crawl that site. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yep. No, that makes total sense. So that's, that's just how, um, there's an obsession where they're like walking around the staircase. That's infinite. It's basically just that for crawling and showing them like an exit. That's just like, so that's the index. Are you speedy index? And if you save for like, I know this is critical. Like everything needs to match, right? Name, address, phone number, be the same. It's unified across all those. Um, why is that so critical? I feel like that's like a rookie mistake. A lot of people make where they'll have like slight variations in like the name. So say for example, um, you're, it's like X business, you know, HVAC, X, you know, Y location, it that whatever that title is that needs to be the exact same in all places, um, like no variations, et cetera. Any, any kind of like checklist items that you kind of go through to make sure that that all matches up. Um, or like, you know, are the, there are things that people should be thinking about with that. So the easiest way to see if everything is like green lighted, I like to search like the exact match name in quotations on Google just to see how many citations are live and that'll just give you like a quick like finger on the pulse. It's not the greatest way to do it, especially if you have like exact match, um, uh, domains, stuff like that. But, um, why does it matter? It's just Google does a crawl, right? So they're able to see, oh, this site is listed on a ton of directories. The name matches, the address matches, the phone number matches. Thus this local business is, um, very prevalent in the, uh, yeah, it's a real company, right? Like all you're trying to do is send signals that this is a real company, right? Like you can game this with not a real company, but they're just saying, okay, reviews, uh, citations and like, are people actually driving to this? Okay. It's a real business. Exactly. So like you can also use citations to register phony, uh, Google business profiles as well. If you wanted to, cause like it sends the right signals, but Google's like, wait, but there's no Google business profile. So if you add a missing place there, then it'll be more sticky than as opposed to if you like raw dog did type of thing. Yeah. Super interesting, man. I love it. Um, cool. So last question before we get onto like local rank and how you guys are growing the software, um, I know like a part of your strategy with local rank is getting, um, basically like people to start businesses on top of, uh, of your guy's software, um, how are you going about that? I feel like what you're doing with like building a community around this with like, uh, I see your tweets all the time, right? Where it's like, um, if I was, you know, 20 and trying to make five grand a month, this is what I would be doing, right? And then it basically like lays out a playbook, um, to, to do that. But I'm just curious to see like, how are you building that community? And then also just the advice you're giving them to get those leads. Like how are you getting those people, um, you know, it is a cold email, et cetera. Like what are you teaching them? I guess is what I'm trying to say. The reason why we have to do this is because I realized that the local SEO space is so small. It's, it's super small. So what we have to do is we have to start educating people. We have to like build the actual time. The time is super small. Like I've spoken to a couple of these local SEO tool owners. There, their MRR kind of sucks. You know, it's like it's cause it's B2B, but it's B2B people who offer a local SEO. Not many people offer local SEO. So it's like, all right, then we have to build that market. So that's why we do a lot of education there. And, um, yeah, you got to get more people to start local SEO agencies. And I think what we teach actually is not so much the local SEO side in the community, but it's like the sale side, because that's actually the hardest part. Fulfilling is super easy. Local SEO is, as of right now, August 1st, 2025, stupid easy. Like one of the easiest things I've ever done is probably local SEO. Like you'll rank in seven days in some, in like some regions, which is insane. Which is crazy because you'll never do that in like organic search. It's just not possible. It's super tough. For extremely competitive keywords too. I just want to like put that in there. Like the fact that, I mean, ranking a page for like HVAC X location, right? Like a blog or like a landing page for a company going to be incredibly competitive in contrast to like your point. Like you do reviews, like directory listings and then also have, you know, basically like people going to that location and you can get there in seven days. I mean, that's unheard of. It's crazy. Yeah. Like if I was starting a local business right now and I like, let's say I decided, okay, today I want to start a plumbing business. I'm literally going to go to the corner of the busiest street with a bunch of fives. And I would probably rank within 30 days. Like it's that easy. And then you start holding meetups and then you're like, okay, guys, we're moving to the office after parties at my office. Everyone Google, take out your Google maps, you know, we'll all walk over together. Like it's done. It's done. Yeah. I love it. Like it's really that easy. I love it. That's amazing. Because the beautiful part about local SEO is there's only so many signals that Google can take from. Totally. Because yeah, like it's literally just Google Maps, right? So there's not much they can do. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like a ton of factors that they can include into their ranking algorithm. Exactly. Okay. So you're teaching the sales piece, which makes sense. What are what are you seeing be the best, like the most effective way to get pipeline for these people? Are is it cold email? Is it like DMing them on social? Like what are the things that are working? I think doing stuff that other people overseas can't do. For example, if I'm from the deep South, I got that Southern draw. Dude, I'm cold calling because they hear and they're like, okay, this guy's from like my my neighbor, you know what I mean? Yeah. So you have to do stuff like that. Cold calling automatically works. We've had people in the community just like close via call as well as cold walk-ins. It's hilarious. You got like these 18 year olds walking in pitching and it's working. One guy bought a hundred dollars worth of donuts and then close them the next day. Amazing. Isn't that crazy? You can just do stuff like that. Just do things, man. Yeah. That's awesome, man. I love it. I love it. So do the things that every like, I love that what you said, like do the things that are almost physical, like you like you can't do it, you know, virtually. And then are there any industries that like you suggest for people to be focusing on like is it service based industries? Is it, you know, I'm thinking like health related. Like who who's the most receptive to this? Oh, like the high CBC people. So yeah. Oh God, like personal injury lawyers are crazy. Roofing, you know, anything with $50 cost per click. These guys are not paying. There's no way they go broke because they're up against like national. No country. Yeah. Companies, national companies. There's there's no way. Pest control. Yep. So basically look at all the service businesses. Go to Stumtech. Look at all the like service businesses that are listed there. See what has the highest CPCs in your geography and then go to those companies and be like, yo, we'll rank you higher on Google Maps. That's basically the strategy. The offer has to be super crazy now nowadays because it's so competitive. So you just offer like, for example, I think jumper that you mentioned offers like a ranking guarantee. You could do ranking guarantee, no problem. But what they do is they're kind of sneaky with it, which I kind of respect. They, they give you like the smallest radius known to mankind. It's like, yeah, we'll rank you like in a five kilometer radius, bro. They're probably already ranking in the five mile radius. Like I respect it. Yeah, I respect it, but yeah, just offer some sort of guarantee. But most of the time what SEO companies do is they give you like the long like a long tail that they'll guarantee you for like, for example, fricking best Chinese Canadian SEO, you know, shit like that. Yeah, but it works. It works. It, it gets people in the door. So whatever, whatever, whatever works. Yeah, totally. And then are you, are you telling these kids the price it on, like, is it, I imagine it's like some no brainer offer where it's like 300 to 500 a month or something like that? Or I guess what's the pricing that you're seeing people go with? And then is it, are they doing, it's like a one time deal or trying to turn it into productized service where it's like a recurring, you know, purchase they're making multiple months. What does that look like from a business biology standpoint? Yeah, there's a couple of ways to do it. But there's some sort of formula you can calculate on pricing. Cause, um, based off of their like, uh, AOV of, um, of a customer. So like a roofing company isn't going to be priced the same as friggin like hot dog stand, you know what I mean? Um, it's just, this is not possible. So a roofing company, I think when I checked, for example, Vancouver roofing based off of like, you give them, you know, you have to give them some meat on the bones as well. I think you can charge up to four or five K a month. Um, whereas a restaurant, maybe you charge like 300 bucks a month. But the actual costs of costs of goods sold is probably like 50 bucks. So I just tell them, start high, start on like the formula I gave you. And then just drop it until they say yes. But obviously you have to have some meat on the bone so everyone can eat, you know? Totally. Totally. Yeah. No. Awesome, man. No, it's great context. Um, sweet, let's jump into a local rank and everything you're doing there. Um, so you built this community piece. I feel like that's such like a powerful thing, especially when you're like, hey, we need to increase our TAM that we can sell to. So we need to educate them on like how to run a business like this. Um, what are the other things that you're doing, uh, that you're seeing, like, you know, from a tactical marketing standpoint that you're seeing be effective right now for this? Yeah. So the reason why we started a community isn't for me to go full guru, but now that we've seen some success, it's I'm like, should I go full guru? Like, should I go info coaching? I don't know. Cause just on the community is doing about like five K per month in MRR. I'm like, yo, first month out the gate, that's pretty good. Right. So the reason why we did that is not, not for the money actually, it's to offset our paid ads budget. So we try to run the community at break even and then the software is like the gravy. So once you come into the community, we teach you how to like start a local SEO company, our pitches, you'll get your first client in 90 days. Um, but everything we teach uses local rank. So it's kind of like an upsell tactic. Um, yeah, obviously in the best case scenario, we don't even have this community. It's, it's too much work, but I realized you can't just raw dog, push people into local rank. It's like too hard for people to use. So we have to have a lot of education. So yeah, actually just, are you charging for the course? Or is it free to get access to this basically? No, it's charged. It's charged. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, totally. So that, that, that revenue is used to offset our ads, our ads for pushing local rank. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Cool. So you're driving them basically to this community. Like this is the, the first online bit, like the easiest way to start your first online business, they pay to join that. That kind of like, it's more like, um, direct response ads. First retargeting into local rank Academy, which is the community. And then, um, yeah, then we upsell into the software. So like, for example, this week, we just had an enterprise client coming in. They just paid like 20 Gs for the year and this came via the community. And this wouldn't have been possible without the community. Like a lot of education was needed for us to show the value of like our enterprise plan, but, um, yeah, so glad we did it. Yeah, I think probably the best like business, uh, decision we made this month was starting the community. Totally. Pretty crazy. You break down that funnel into more detail. So it's basically running broader ads, um, having them hit the site. Are you going to sending them to local rank or is it too like a, a lander that's specifically about the community and then pixeling and then remarketing to them? Like, is there just break that down in more detail for us? Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually, um, our main traffic driver right now. I don't know if you've seen it. It's like boring local SEO. Have you seen that? I do. I have seen it on Twitter. I thought it was, uh, I thought it was Greg in person. Dude, you know what's crazy about it? All right. So here goes our funnel. We have multiple checklists or like ebooks or presentations. Just a lot of swipe files that I've been creating over the years that I've just been giving away for free. So I'm like, you know what, why don't I just get some reach out of this? So I give people a taster on Twitter or X, like, okay, doing, uh, local SEO is the easiest way to 10 K per month in 2025. I created a 65 point checklist. Here's the entire checklist on, on X. If you want it, like in your email inbox for you to share with your colleagues, comment local rank and I'll DM it to you. So after, um, after they comment, I get way more reach. We've probably, I think just this month, we did like half a million impressions, which is roughly 20 K in, uh, CPMs on meta. Um, but after we DM it to them, they go into a funnel. So they have to give us their email and people can see it visually too, just to kind of like break it down. So it's, it's something like this, like if I had to get local SEO clients, um, or all be homeless, this is what I do bookmark for later, right? Yeah. So then it lays out exactly the process, just like this, like, you know, wall of text to the average person and then have CTA at the bottom, do something and I'll send you this thing, right? So which creates engagement bait. Um, and then also adding that CTA to like just join it as well within a thread of that, such a good, like simple thing that anybody can do. So I just wanted to visualize that for everybody. And we don't even give, we don't even give the template right away. They have to give us their email for us to give them the template and guess what happens after the sign up VSL right away and then hella retargeting and then freaking like a 40 email flow that they are put into right away as well. Nice. So nice. Yeah. So if you go into like local rank.so/checklist, you can probably see like our entire funnel. Local rank.so/checklist. Yeah. Nice. So they go here, they hit this page. You're pixeling them, throwing them into that remarketing. Also, that creates this really interesting like flywheel where it's like, you're getting more and more people to know that this like, talking about this TAM creation. Right. Um, it like creates this, uh, um, like gross flywheel of just like mental real estate of like, oh, I need to start a, maybe they're not at that moment ready to like start their first business, but as soon as they get to that precipice where they're like, I need to quit my day job or I'm going to unlike myself. This is the way that I can, I can do that quickly. So yeah, exactly. And yeah, I think the easiest way to push people through is via the community. It's actually way harder to just raw dog into local rank. That's what we found. So this method has been working wonders for us. I don't know why. Yeah, it makes more sense to sell the software, right? Yeah, totally. I don't know. I thought, I thought that was a case, but after heavy testing, it's, it's just obvious. Yeah. I think when there's this learning curve for the software, like that's what, that's when this like can work really well. A lot of why I'm asking this too is like, we're doing this with graft right now where it's like, it's, there's kind of a learning curve to like get people into how to like, how do I even use this thing? And so I'm, you know, I'm testing YouTube creators basically doing tutorial style videos, right, where it's like 10 minutes of basically just them doing a demo and kind of these other different things. But the community place feels like another, like really great avenue where it's like, oh, you're trying to get a data analyst job or whatever. Like, like you can learn this rather than these other things to like have the skill sets you need basically to accomplish that. Or, you know, I don't know if that's the actual way that we'll approach it, but just like to throw it ideas. But, um, yeah, the, uh, good. Sorry. Yeah, I think, um, one, one more note is, uh, for the audience is X is great and all, but our initial launch, we did a complete check because I gave a coupon out on X and I gave a coupon out on YouTube and at launch, I think we did like 15 K at launch, uh, MRR 90% of them came from YouTube. Isn't that crazy? Hi, I didn't know. So like if, if I were to start a new software company, I'd go all in on YouTube, like dominate an industry. So I've been talking about local SEO. I don't know if you've followed on me on YouTube, but I've been talking about it for like, hell, yeah, I've been here shit. Like a year to me. Yeah, exactly. So like if you talk about something for a year and then you launch a product about that topic, it's going to, it's, it's going to pop no matter what. Like, it's building audience. You're basically like building up pent up demand and then you're capturing that demand with this audience that already trusts you, right? Like they're ready and they're there for it. Um, yeah. It's, I think that's like a strategy that a lot of people mess up sometimes where it's like they're like, oh, like constantly marketing, but what is, I feel like harder to do, but more effective is like a lot of value offered. And then like have the, the sales moment and then like repeat that. It's almost like the cycle that you go through where you're like building up demand and then like, you know, basically do the ask. But, um, it's also cause we actually do the thing, right? So like we actually do local SEO. What I've found is I, I, I think that's actually our moat because if let's say the, the most world's most cracked dev tried to start a local ranked copycat. They can copy the features, but they can't iterate like our, I don't know. The problems, the small problems we noticed that we're having while doing local SEO for clients, you know, stuff like that. Yeah. No, that makes total sense. I mean, you are the customer, right? So you're going to be able to like way more effectively build a product than if you're just said some dude coming in and again, a cloning feature. So, um, yeah, cool. So you're doing the community thing. I think that's super interesting. It's probably sounds like it's ripping. What are the other things that you're layering on to also do a customer acquisition? I've seen you sending a lot of cold email. Um, I think you're doing a lot of paid ads as well, but where, where are you seeing kind of the, the, um, the, the alpha right now, um, with, with the, uh, distribution for this. I actually think, so initially we're, let me pull up our meta ads. Like I thought meta was the play, but our cost per purchase, it's, it's not terrible. Okay. It's about like $120 cost per hack. It's all right. We get paid back in two, three months. Our, uh, turn rate is maybe 10, 15%. So it's not, it's not terrible. Like we're going to make money, but I thought it was going to be better than this. Our, our main avenue right now, probably most profitable is the organic X for some reason. So the, the, the funnel I just showed you, that is by far the most profitable YouTube and Google did not work at all. I don't know why. Um, we spent way too much money. We spent like our cac was maybe like 400 us dollars there, which is, dude, we got our cheeks clapped now. We spent like maybe 20 Gs on that just to figure that out. Feels bad, man. Um, and Reddit is doing decently. Well, about the same as Meadow, surprisingly, all we do is target local SEO, like SEO, big SEO on Reddit and, um, yeah, target those subreddits and run ads there. Yeah. But those guys hate me. People on Reddit hate me. They like shit on me all the time. It's probably because like I've unleashed an army of like just local ranked shillers in, in, in there. Um, I love it. Yeah. It's a, it's a rough one, but hostile as well. I mean, everybody's like, oh, they're full of shit. Like, and it's just like very aggro and I, I, dude, I don't understand it. It's just like, look at the data. What's working is what's working. Like I, we, we don't have opinions about this shit, but that's crazy about Reddit is you can change the direction of the convo with just upvotes. Like if you, for example, someone dunks on me in the comment section, if I buy like 10 downvotes, people will start like dunking on him instead, which is crazy. You can just change the direction of the conversation with just upvotes because people are just like sheeple on Reddit. It's great. I respect it. I respect it. I love it. I love it. But yeah, don't don't sleep on Reddit. I think I talked about this last time when I came on, like you just find stuff that's ranking in your niche on Reddit, show that and you'll just start seeing revenue come in. It's totally so like SOP. For example, if I'm selling best creatine or creatine gummies, I would just search best creatine gummies, click on the first link on the first Reddit link. Comment your own shit, like softshell it. Don't even link to it. Be like, oh, I tried XYZ creatine. I really liked it by like fricking 50 upvotes and like 10 comments. And you're there. You're done. That's that's literally all you do. And still works. And that also is probably affecting like AISCO as well. Right. I mean, we're seeing this more and more. It's just brand mentions basically, like what is being mentioned the most on page one, three pulls from Reddit a lot. Actually, a ton of percent way too much and chap, GBD love it. So yeah, so you can you can game that super easy. Hold the count. Totally. I just did that last time we had you on just for the audience. We talked deep about parasite SEO. If you want to learn about like what that is and that process, Jackie lays it out in like full detail. I think we spent like 20 minutes on it. So I'll link that video in the description, but it high level talk, like explain what parasite is and like, you know, the, the, the TLDR. TLDR, you're like piggybacking off of someone else, like another business's domain authority. So for example, Reddit, if you want to rank on Google for something competitive, like best CBD gummies, if you start your own site, boy, maybe you'll start ranking in like 10 years. But if you just commented on like a subreddit that's already ranking, you'll get there in like a week armed with like $10 worth of uploads. You're there already. So give it a shot. I think Reddit is super gameable right now. Like on all fronts, all fronts, you can change any narrative you want. Um, politics, uh, like consumer goods, B2B SaaS, anything, anything. I honestly think there is a market to buy up these subreddits. Like the biggest subreddits on the internet, the VPN companies are already doing it. So why aren't you doing it for like easier niches? You know what I mean? So totally, I think, and they're cheap because these, these Reddit mods, their neckbears in their parents' basements, they have no money. Well, five, five K, and you'll probably get it. I'm not even joking. That's amazing. Uh, and just, I mean, it's, it's easy to find them as well. It's like they're listed as the mod of that community. So then it's just like, how do you get in conversation with them and close that? Exactly. Um, yeah, but just make sure if like, for example, if I wanted to buy SEO on, uh, Reddit, these guys will never sell to me because like they hate me. Right. So it's just, you have to go through like a friend of a friend for, for you guys buy it. So totally, totally. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Sweet. So, um, it makes, it feels like a lot of it is just like, it's honestly, it feels like it all relates to the community play. Like I'm just trying to like build more like conversation around this thing to get people into the educational content. Um, so I saw you doing some email stuff. Is that working? Like, are you, are you making that make sense? Are you reaching out directly to businesses for that? Or what, what does that look like? So we have a couple, well, we have a lot of cold email campaigns going out right now, um, one, we're just, we're still doing it for the SEO agency. Um, mostly to show, show people like how easy it is. Uh, the TLDR right now, if you're to start a local SEO agency is to niche down, for example, it'll be like easy roofing.com. You want to be called indexy SEO company. You know, you'd go niche, you dominate that niche, you reach out and that's it. You just spam the shit out of them and they'll eventually hop on. And, uh, what we found is in your signature, you should always include a naked domain in your signature and that gets a 10% visit rate, which is crazy. I didn't even know that. So if you include easy roofing.com, you blast a hundred people a day. 10 of those people will directly visit that site. Crazy. So on that pretty much on that site, you have to convince them to hop on your services, whether it be VSL, an insane offer, and then Cal and Lee, and then you have some, uh, closer go in and close them. It's, um, that's, that's our current funnel. Uh, but to click a link when you're saying that naked domain, it's basically just like, you know, example.com. It's just like, but it's a clickable link. It's uncliable. Okay. Cool. Cause if you make it clickable, um, your delivery, your deliverability gets rocked. Yeah. What we've been doing is, is using like a SMTP server that's cheap. And then, uh, doing first email, we'll have it no links. And then the second email a day later, we'll include a link in it. So we basically inbox the first email and then the second email is like when we'll have like hard CTA to the link, if that makes sense. Oh, we're interested. Um, and so that's been like working. And then, you know, you can track that, right? It's like very easy to see it. Um, but anyway, just another small tactical thing that we've seen be successful lately, so yeah, yeah. Um, so that's what I'm like, I don't give a fuck about reply rate, right? Like I'm thinking about that is like, how do I cold email a hundred thousand people? This is, this is like my exact target ICP. If I can get 40% of those people to open this thing, right? Like that's just an impression, right? I'm just thinking about it basically like that. And then the second email is like, Oh, I'm just trying to drive traffic to the site. I don't even care if they respond. I don't want them to respond. I just want them to go and sign up for the application. And that's just like, it's a vehicle to do that, right? That's why we're using these cheap servers rather than like better stuff. And when you send out these emails, if you include local rank on the bottom, these guys are probably Googling, Oh, what's local rank? Well, look, exactly. And then they Google it. That helps our SEO a ton. By the way, that's how I'm able to, if your audience wants to help me out, go search local rank tracker on Google and you'll notice we're number four. Our business is like a month old. How are we, we beat Semrush on Google. That's literally all from like our heavy, like aggressive pushes. There's so many things we've done to rank for that. Like, let me give you a couple of examples. Yeah, please. Cold email helps. Okay. Job listings help. That's, that's, that's a, that's a, that's a sly way to do it. Like you, in the job description, you're just like, Oh yeah, search local rank tracker to find out more about our company and find local rank. So stuff like that. You know what else we've done? This is crazy. Um, we polished off for the OGs out there, GSA. And all it does is it spams people's contact forms. All right. 70 K contact form fills in seven days. And all it does is it doesn't even, it doesn't mention, uh, local rank. It just, or no, it does, but it has, it has no URLs because I don't want to blacklist my URLs. It just says local rank to find our business search local rank tracker on Google will be on the front page. And that has helped our like Google search console. It looks crazy right now. It looks crazy because it's not even about conversions. It's not even about, um, people like just going on your site. Doing digital PR in a way in this round about, yeah, like, so it's like, I'm going to rank for this keyword. So I get at the page one and then I can influence the CTR rate because I'm telling them the keyword to search and then getting that to like, so you're, you're, you're basically like getting your, you're modifying the clickstream data that's that they're, they're measuring to what goes higher on that page. Like this one is getting, fuck, dude, that is so interesting. Yeah. And we're like, our site is pretty much constantly viral in Google size. It's, it's pretty crazy. Yeah. Totally, totally. So say you're a soft, I mean, another software company, it's basically like find a keyword that's high value that you think you can go and rank for. Get yourself to show up for that. Once you show up for that, then it's like basically layer on this, uh, you know, form submission idea. Yeah, exactly. The form submission, you have to be careful though. Uh, common mistakes do email. That's probably the most effective, I'm guessing email is like, it's safe. You're not going to get anyone angry at you contact form. I don't even use my real name. We don't even use our real email address. It's just local rank and search local rank tracker. That's it. Yeah. And we'll offer you a free coupon, zero conversions, but the impressions have like, let me pull up the impressions, like of just, uh, local rank tracker is like flying. It's crazy. No one's searching this much for a local rank tracker. I'll tell you that. Um, so you're influencing the search volume of local rank tracker. I'm seeing it gets about 1,900 searches per month. Uh, you know, that's a, the estimate I'm pulling from like SEM rush. Um, yeah, uh, in my search console, it's about 6.5 K searches per month. Yeah. So like three times that just from our campaign. That's insane. Crazy love it. Crazy. Crazy. You know, what's interesting is you could probably invent a new category term, um, so my co-founder Max, he worked at this company called, um, uh, high touch at one point. Um, and they made up this term. It was like reverse ETL was what it was called. Um, it doesn't matter. It's basically just like data warehousing. I'm like, how do you move that data? And then they like pushed like HubSpot did this as well, right? Where they called it inbound marketing was like this like new term and then they like basically pushed that term. So they lead that category. They invented a new category. This strategy you could like almost invent a new category. Like create some type of phrase that describes what you're doing. And then go and basically like push for that. Like, you know, use this as a strategy to get people to search that term, which you show up for, which then like creates this whole new space. Basically, that's super interesting. Exactly. Um, yeah, that's what, that's what we did, uh, recently. So this virality idea, we actually create a product around it. It's called like browser blast and all it is, is it mimics virality. And that actually helps or Google organic rankings. So if people didn't know that, if you drive a ton of traffic to a single URL, as well as send it positive signals, such as all the signals we mentioned today, that will shoot your rankings up like two, three pages at a time. And it's crazy. That's one of the reasons why we're ranking over like everyone else for local ranked tracker has been around for at least five years. We're around for like two months and we're right beside them for no reason. Like, oh, it's for a reason. Imagine being an in-house SEO. You just laid it out what you're doing. Imagine, imagine being an in-house SEO and you're like, yo, who the fuck is these guys? Like why? And then they search me up and it's some Asian dude eating creatine every day. And you're losing to like this guy. These guys plug for Jackie's channel. Go watch this. It's amazing. We'll include it in the link in the description, but it did. Some of the most high value content. I don't think people understand too. It's like you just show the actual things and like nobody actually does that. Right. So that's why it's killing it for you. But, um, dude, what am I not asking you that I should be like in relationship to everything we talked about today? Is there anything that, um, you know, you're seeing that, that is we just, it hasn't come up in the conversation. Yeah. I think maybe AI SEO. I think, um, just real quick sales. Cause I think we have to be mindful of the time, but, um, yeah, I think we got about 10 minutes early. So we can, we can, I don't know. Yeah, it sounds good, but, um, I think with AI SEO, be careful with the agencies out there claiming they know how to rank it. It's, I have not like, you know me. Okay. I'm going to keep it a buck. If I figure out a way to rank on AI, I'm a monetize the fuck out of it. If your boy has been sitting on his hands and has not claimed a way to rank successfully across all these, um, LMS, then most people probably haven't figured it out consistently. But what I've seen is like, okay, people are pulling from popular subreddits. Okay. I'm seeing Google AI overviews pulling from press releases, stuff like that. But not like, okay, if you do X, Y and Z, this will consistently get you featured on all of the LMS, you know? So I think, um, be careful which agency you go with out there. Um, I don't think there has been one agency that has figured it out consistently just yet, but a lot of, I think most of the times it's just brand mentions. If I had to give like a one, like a quick overview of how to get listed. They just get these, um, press releases done. If they're, if the press releases have like best Vancouver SEO company and you're on the top of the list, you'll probably get ranked in AI overviews on Google. If you're listed in a subreddit, the biggest subreddit on SEO and you're number one there, you'll probably get listed on chat to BT. Um, but I haven't figured out per perplexity just yet, not consistently as well, but, uh, just be careful which agencies you guys go with. So you're doing press. I, so what we've been doing is like listicle style articles or like, you know, basically like, you know, 10 best X keyword apps, right? Stuff like that. And that's where we've been seeing success. But you're saying just like blast press releases. Um, and like, it's almost just like create as many brand mentions as you possibly can, like in relationships to that keyword or, or, I guess the press release would be also a listicle. Okay, cool. So it's just, it's literally parasite SEO. Yeah, but it also ranks on AI overviews, but that's only Google. I don't see it showing up in chat with the often, maybe for local terms. So I, I did a case study on, um, my buddies, like physio clinic in Vancouver. I think we were able to get it listed on some queries. Like if you add like best physio Vancouver 2025, we're able to get listed from our like our press release listed and mentioned, but like not consistently. Like I, I'm surprised people have the gonads to offer this as a service when they can't consistently do something, you know, totally. I respect the hustle, but it's not something I would do at the moment. Yeah. I think there's no clear, it's so funny. Like everybody's talking about this and shipping software related to it. And they're like, we influence the rankings and it's like, okay, cool. How do you influence the rankings? And they're like, well, actually we're just a visibility tool. And it's like, yeah, like, so you're just doing synthetic data and basically telling me how I show up based off that. And they're like, yes, that's like every single one of them. They're literally just a rank tracker. Yeah, exactly. It's ahrefs or semrush. I think that's all it is. It's so anybody that's promising that they have some strategy. I've seen some crazy shit too. Like this dude was like basically spinning up like a private blog network, like just doing PDM strategies and like tons of articles, like about the products. Right. And I'm like, I don't see that work. Like the only thing we're seeing matter is like, are you on page one through three for that keyword with some like included in some of those list of articles? Like if you're not, that's, that's the only game to play here basically. And there's stuff you can do deeper than that. It's like, okay, cool. I build that list of cool. And then maybe I build tier two or tier three links to that to like help it like rank higher, but it's still just pulling from page one through three of Google. So yeah, yeah. But there's like a couple of things I'm testing, which are looking promising. For example, um, building out your own subreddit. But you know how, uh, AI mentions only big subreddits, right? Yep. So what if you go out and buy like a hundred K members in your subreddit and you mimic activity, will Google eventually see that or these AI LMS? Like, would they eventually see that as like, okay, yo, this play pretty active, you know, cause you can, you can buy everything. Right. Yep. I can go out and buy a thousand Reddit members and they're all talking amongst themselves on a daily basis. This is the most active subreddit on the internet. You know, will that rank in LMS? I don't know, but, um, it's looking pretty good. So if anyone out there wants to, yeah, looking to that DM me, I, uh, I'd love to game the shit on Reddit because these guys are just cringe as fuck. I love it, man. There you go. Yeah. All right, Jackie, where do people find you? Where was the best place to reach out to you? I will include the links in the show notes as well. Yeah. Um, just find me on X, Jackie Chow or indexy, Google me. And you know what? Google me. Google Jackie's name and click on his name. All right. Yeah, or search local rank tracker. Yeah. Please do that. I love it. I love it. All right. There's the, there's the gentleman's handshake. Go search local rank tracker and click on, uh, on Jackie on local, uh, local rank.so, so yeah, appreciate everyone for watching. If you guys don't mind, go comment local SEO in the YouTube comment section. It helps Cody. Maybe you can rank for a local SEO, just like the general term. And they'll help everyone out. I will die. I will die, but it's totally possible. All right, man. Thank you again for coming on. We'll have you back in like six months, man, and get it a state of the union and what's that, what's happening in your world. So, sounds good, sounds good. - Awesome, brother. - Thanks for having me.