Living With OCD Intrusive Thoughts

This episode includes discussions around mental health, intrusive thoughts, obsessive-compulsive disorder, OCD, and suicidal thoughts. These topics may be distressing or triggering for some listeners. Please take care while listening and prioritize your mental and emotional well-being. Welcome back to For The Haters. Today's episode takes a deep dive into mental health shedding light on a topic that isn't talked about nearly enough. Our guest Noah was diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive disorder, also known as OCD, in 2020. His OCD manifests through intrusive thoughts of harming others, a form of the disorder that is often misunderstood and stigmatized. Noah is here to share his journey of navigating this diagnosis, facing discrimination, and finding relief and support along the way. He's passionate about educating others, about the realities of OCD, and helping to build understanding and compassion for those who struggle with it. This is an important conversation, so let's get into it. Noah, welcome to For The Haters, and thank you for being here. Thank you for having me, I'm excited. I'm really excited for this conversation when you first reached out. I had never heard of this even being a possibility. It's always really cool for me to be able to speak with someone that I'm also being educated through the conversation and just really expanding my own knowledge. Before we get into that, if you could just introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about who you are and your journey before OCD. Noah, I'm 28 years old. Growing up, things were pretty typical for me until about age 9. I experienced some sexual trauma at that age, which led to a more broken home, and then just experiencing chaos around that. So I know when I first started experiencing OCD, I didn't even realize that I was experiencing it. I think the first time that I experienced it, I was like 16 or 17, and I just remember having thoughts and urges of harming one of our family pets. And I think at the time I was a super angry teenager, so I thought maybe I'm just angry at what it is. It has nothing to do with, I didn't think much about it. I didn't know I would always feel very upset and very shameful and guilty when I would have those thoughts. When I would have them, I didn't want to hurt the pet, but the urges were very strong. But it was one of those things where it's like, you just don't know what's going on. Then after the pet was down for health reasons, I stopped experiencing them, so I really didn't think much about it until a few years later, I started experiencing thoughts of harming and torturing my brother. And just like, I had had a head injury from rugby, I was home kind of recovering, I thought maybe okay, this is probably just related to like hitting my head. Pretty hard, you know, so it lasted for about a month, but kind of tapered off once I left home, I didn't really experience it again. Was he your only sibling? No, I have, I actually have five brothers. Oh wow. I have five brothers and we grew up in a pretty condensed area. I will say at the time I identified as female, so the one part of that is like out my own room. You know, so they all had to share, but I just remember I didn't like being home a lot, especially in my early adulthood in teenage years, I just kind of was angry at the situations that I was in and the circumstances that surrounded like my childhood. So I think the return for that recovery was pretty stressful and then just feeling like I was completely out of control. I know it got to the point, like the thoughts in the urges were so strong that I would avoid my brother. Like I just was like, I don't know what's going on. Like I, I'm having these urges, I'm having these thoughts and I feel like if I'm around him, like what if I do this and it was just a slew of racing thoughts, like what's going on. What does this mean about me as a person? But again, like I, I once recovered, I left, I went back to my college town at the time and didn't really think much of it. I listed in the army, I had left school. So this was happening in probably, I want to say like November, December, I left for the army in February of that year, so that was 2018, I left for the army. I got through basic training in the AIT, which is your advanced training, didn't really, like I hadn't experienced the thoughts, hadn't even thought of it. To be honest, and then I remember about probably about a year and a half into the army and probably about a year into my being at my permanent duty station. I was close with one of my unit members, she kind of like took me under her wing when I got in and she ended up being pregnant. And so she had a baby, but the father was not stationed with us. So she needed quite a bit of help, well not needed, but it was nice to have that support, like and I offered a lot of support, like helping her take care of the baby. And things like that, and I just remember I was sitting in the living room one day and she was working on a project and the baby was in the bassinet, and I just had this image of suffocating the baby. And I was like, you know, I was freaking out, I was like, what is this? You know, it scared me, I was just like, it's just challenging when you experience that kind of thing, especially towards somebody that you love. And so I kind of shook it off, I was like, you know, whatever this is, an isolated event, like people have weird thoughts all the time, it's like, it's okay. Did you connect any of the dots at that point of like your other like, no, brother and thing and the animal? Not at that point, it wasn't until like further in the treatment that I kind of got that connection, but I know the thoughts just continued to happen. So like the more I was around the baby, the more intense, like the images and urges were to like, and they were just vivid. So like the way that I experienced it, I tell people like, I see it kind of like a mental picture, like I'm watching a movie screen, but in my head. So it's very like it was very absorbed like absorbing, I guess it was like, you were very involved in it, you were all there kind of and while I knew like those things were not real, like I knew that it was just so like I would zone out into it kind of thing. And it just became much more frequent, much more intense, much more like violent in nature to the point that I, I was so scared that I was going to actually harm this baby that I wanted to kill myself. And so I was seeing a therapist at the time, not for that at all, just for other issues that I was having in the army. And I remember telling my therapist I was like, you know, like I'm going to kill myself like and I was kind of I wasn't ready to share that it was related to that. So I kind of just told her like it's you know X Y and Z circumstances that it's going on and they sent me to a crisis stabilization unit because like I had had a plan like I knew what I was going to do. And they just wanted to make sure that I was like safe, but that would start like almost a six month journey of being in and out of the hospital. So I went, got the stabilization that they like wanted to do. I came out in my psychiatrist and the army switched the medication that they had put me on. And I just remember like the thoughts got even more intense, even more frequent like I was having panic attacks at work because it was so bad. And like I just couldn't be around the baby because anytime I was around him, like I just felt these urges like what it like I feel like I have to do it, but I don't want to do it. Kind of thing. And it's just like having that mental struggle and battle with yourself is so exhausting. Yeah. And so I finally went to the psychiatrist and I was like this is why I wanted to kill myself like I'm having these thoughts all the time of harming this baby like I'm really scared that I'm going to harm him like I'm really scared that I'm going to kill him like and I think you know when they heard that they didn't quite know what to do with it. They were like I'm sure it's not something that they hear like often. No, not at all. And of course being in the service that's also you know they're just like wow, like people don't really either a come forward with their mental health issues and be I don't think are that candid or struggling with that period. So it's not necessarily like you said something that they see every day. So they decided to send me to a residential care center and I actually stayed at that center on two separate occasions throughout that six months. The first time I was there probably around a month and a half. The second time I was there closer to two two and a half months. And I just remember like being angry I was like you know why am I here like I you know when you're there it's a very controlled environment you don't get to leave. So and at the time I was in a relationship so it was very difficult to kind of feel like I was keeping something from my partner but then also needing to know like I need to heal like I need to figure out what's going on because I was just I was so scared that I was going to hurt somebody. Yeah. Can I can we take it before we move forward into the diagnosis and things that. come next, are you if you're comfortable with it, can I ask a couple questions? Yeah, yeah, upbringing. Yeah. Um, do you like you have five brothers around you? Do you? Are they aware of like the struggles that you went through as a child? Um, they're aware of, so they, they knew of this sexual trauma, um, just because it was somebody that we knew. Yeah. Um, and then were they aware of it like during like the times that it was happening or they were aware of it now? They were aware of it, um, after it happened. So, um, and I just remember that, that in and of itself was very challenging because I, I felt very guilty, I guess like I told my mom what had happened because I didn't want anything to happen to them and this person was like heavily involved in all of our lives. But I remember like my youngest brother was four when it happened. So, you know, when, when that person was no longer around or able to come around, I remember my brother, he was like, why won't you let this person come around? And you know, he's four, he didn't know what he was saying, but I, I realized later in treatment that I internalized that and I felt a lot of guilt and shame surrounding that. Like, it's my fault that my brothers don't have this person in their life. Like, I'm to blame. Like, I mean, that's heavy. That's like, it's a lot for anyone to go through, let alone like a child to, uh, to go through. What is, what is your relationship like with your siblings? You have a close relationship with them? I do. Yeah. I think we've gotten closer in adulthood, which is nice. I, as a child, it was very difficult because like after everything happened, my mom kind of shut down. She was very like, I think she was just was depressed and didn't know what to do. Like, um, and I, I felt like I had to take care of everybody, including my mom. And it was, it was challenging because you know, being nine, you don't really know how to navigate the world at all. Like, yeah. And then just as I grew, um, continuously in that environment, my, my mom didn't really have anybody. So she, she like spoke to me about a lot of her issues. And I think in a lot of ways, I felt more like I was my mom's friend. Yeah. And then I was my brother's caretakers. Then I did, are you the oldest of? I'm the second oldest. Okay. Um, but my oldest brother, he, he's wonderful. He has assburgers. Okay. So he, he kind of falls under that rug a little bit. But, uh, I just remember like being in such a confusing spot because it was like, I'm here. I'm taking care of all these people. I, I started helping financially at like a young age as a teenager to help kind of support. And I know my brothers weren't aware of those issues. You know, they didn't know what was what our life looked like financially. They didn't know like they knew we were struggling, but they didn't know quite how bad. Um, and again, to be put in that position at such a young age, I think, um, I think, it's a lot of pressure, but it also made my mom and I's relationship very complicated because I love her. And, um, I just remember especially in young adulthood, having a lot of resentment. Um, of course, because I just was like, I don't understand. Like you're supposed to take care of me. Like, and I feel like I was taking care of you my whole life. Yeah. Was your father not in the picture? My father, and my mother and father divorced when I was young. Um, and my father was not allowed to see us unsupervised. Okay. Um, that whole process, it was kind of like my father was involved, but not really as a father figure. Yeah. Um, and so navigating that also was kind of challenging where it was like, and when they divorced, like my mom had been a stay at home mom prior to my parents divorcing. So she was now head of household required to take care of all the siblings and financially responsible, um, and having to find a job and all that. Yeah. I'm not for her to navigate. I mean, it's, there's probably like, have you had like, as an adult conversations with your mom now, like just around different aspects of life and just like, yeah, I'm sure as an adult too, you probably recognize the difficulties that she might have been going through as well, right? Just like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Different layers of struggle. What I always tell her, I was like, I don't know how you had kids say, um, cause like, I'm a mess. I'm 28 and I'm still a mess. Like I could not be responsible for human beings because you know, she started having kids. I mean, my oldest brother who unfortunately was, um, was born, um, just like he, not my oldest brother that's alive. She had one child prior to my oldest brother that's alive. Um, and he unfortunately passed away in utero. So she, she was dealing with that and then having my, my oldest brother a year and a half later. Um, I, you know, I don't know how she navigated to all of that. Um, we've had some conversations now as adults, um, and I am very grateful that my mom is willing to listen. I think, you know, it's been challenging for her because she'll say all the time. She's like, you know, it's interesting to hear what you have to say about the way that you grew up and the way that, um, all that happened because, you know, I didn't see that and I didn't like, it was never my intention or like, and, you know, but she's been very also willing to like, listen to the anger that I have surrounding that at times and like, walk me through that, like how complicated that can feel. Yeah. And that must help and will to obviously get into it, but having that openness and having the answers that you kind of need must have helped with your healing journey too, right? Like having her, like her support, you guys have a good, good relationship now. Yeah. We do. Yeah. You know, we can get back into it, but just from a contextual, like, space. Yeah. I'm, again, if you're comfortable, when did the, when did your transition start, like, throughout my transition was later in life. I was. Yeah. I did not, well, first of all, like I grew up in a small, not small town, but smaller town in Ohio. Um, so I, I did not know gay people were even a thing until my mom actually after my parents divorced my mom got with a woman. And I just remember being like, what is going, I remember being angry at first because I was like, well, this lady is taking my chance away at getting like a good dad. And I just was like, fair. So I was just, I was, I was a shithead when I was little to that. Like I would hide her, like the woman's like work badge and stuff thinking that would get her fired. Like I was mean. Like, because I just was like, it's your fault that I won't have a good dad. Yeah. Because I didn't know like, it's completely normal and okay for like somebody to have two moms. Like I grew up prior to my parents divorcing. We grew up very religious. So it was like one of those things that I just was like, I didn't know that it was a thing. My parents didn't talk about it. And so seeing that for the first time, I was like, Oh, what is this? Like, yeah, I didn't even know this was possible. Yeah. And then I mean, same with like being transgender, like even exploring like prior to identifying as transgender, I kind of explored like being non-binary because I didn't know, you know, I didn't know there was a difference between gender and biological sex and what that looks like and how that broke down. So I was like 21, I think when I decided like I knew like, yeah, like this is not like I definitely feel more authentic as like identifying as transgender. And so in 2020 is when you got a diagnosis though Chris. Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. So what does that feel like after? And I feel bad because there's an entire conversation around like that, like that as well. But I do want to make sure that I give time to what we are here to talk about because, you know, that's why we're here. That's why we're here. Well, maybe I have to do a part two of a different conversation. But you know, what, after getting that diagnosis, you know, what does that journey look like of having an answer to what these thoughts have been for that you've like just struggled with, right? That have just been all consuming to you. I think, you know, the one thing that comes to mind is relief. I think knowing, knowing that I can't help it, knowing that, um, knowing that I'm not my thoughts because I think especially early on prior to having the diagnosis, I really thought that, you know, I internalized the idea that I was a bad person and that I was a monster and that I, you know, if I'm having these thoughts, I must want to do them. I must want to hurt people and like, which was so counter like if you ask anybody that knew me growing up, if you ask anybody that knows me now, like so completely opposite of who I am. You give like off of very warm energy. I try. Yeah. I want to be open and welcoming to people and even as a, as a young, like child growing up and as a, you know, a teenager, people were constantly like, you know, I, I really see myself as an empath like, and I just love to be able to help and support others and I have since I was young. So and it, and it's funny, like when you're in the moment and you're experiencing those thoughts and urges so intensely, like, you can have all the evidence in the world to show, hey, like, this is not who you are. But when it's in your face and you're in the trenches, like, you'll believe anything. And, and unfortunately, like when I was in the army and dealing with all of this, like, I kind of got that message that that was the case, you know, anytime that I, because I came forward multiple times and was hospitalized multiple times, like with these issues. And it was like anytime that I came forward, it was instantly you're in the hospital. And I will say the hospitals were nice in the aspect that like, they worked with me heavily to show me like, you're not a bad person. Like, this is not something that you can control. But to go back to that environment prior to discharge and, you know, I, I had a lot of heavy stipulations. So like put in place. And I remember when I first started experiencing, or like, I was like, I was like, I was like, Like when I told everybody treatment wise about the thoughts towards the baby, they told me that they had a duty to warn the mother. So when I got out of the hospital, I was told that there was a no contact directive. I was not to approach the mother. I was not allowed to be around that baby or any kids. I actually babysat for extra money and I was told you're to have no contact with children period, I was supervised or unsupervised. And that was, that's damaging. Like because you're like, I haven't even done anything, but I was already not in a good headspace to recognize like that I didn't wanna do these things and then to have people kind of make it seem like you can't be trusted. - Yeah. - That really means, there's just a lot of different layers. - Yeah. - When did the like the actual diagnosis come? Like who was that? - The diagnosis came after the army actually. Like after all those hospital stays, like they were kind of trying to pinpoint what it was while during those hospital stays, they were throwing around several ideas. But when I got out of the army in 2020, I went back to school and the school psychiatrist was the one that penned it. So can you for those that are listening, just give a quick explanation of what OCD is and like how it manifests for you? - Yeah, so OCD is by the DSM. It's characterized by with obsessions and compulsions typically or both. Someone will experience obsessions, compulsions or both. So obsessions are kind of defined as persistent or reoccurrent thoughts, images or urges that cause market distress. I'm kind of summarizing here, but. - Yeah. - And that are typically, they're unwanted. So and I think that that's like a heavy thing to capitalize on is like these people that experience this like me, anybody else that experiences OCD as it manifests with obsessions, like they don't want to have these thoughts. They just can't help it. - Yeah. - And then the compulsions are really described as like behaviors or mental processes that the individual will engage in to hopefully neutralize that. And the idea is to neutralize it. So behaviors could be what people commonly think OCD is, which is cleaning or order checking. And mental processes could be praying a certain way or for me, I know I tap and count to five. When I am experiencing like the thoughts and images and it's at a level where it's extremely distressing. - And so once you, what year was it that you get this diagnosis? - 2020. So 2020, you got the diagnosis. - Yeah, so I was in the hospital most of 2019. - Okay. - And in out because I didn't consecutively stay in but I would be out maybe like a few weeks and then they would send me back to the hospital. I got discharged from the army in June of 2020. So I came back to Ohio from Alabama, decided to go back to school. I was living with one of my brothers at the time. We both went to the same school. And I was still like heavily experiencing like these thoughts and images. And so I, well I remember first, I went to the school therapist and they, so just like the therapy portion, not the psychiatry portion, the medicine. And I told them like, hey, like this is why I got discharged from the army, like I'm still like really struggling with this and I just remember them saying they were like, that's more like what you're dealing with is more than where you used to handling. Like we're gonna have to refer you somewhere. And I'm like, great, I'm too fucked up for the therapist. Like oh my gosh, like I got another notch to the belt. I know I was like, well, when you're too fucked up, so I'm like, that's somebody the therapist gave him an help. - Yeah. And so what does treatment look like? Like is there like protocol that this doctor gives you or is there medicines that you try? - They did put me on medication. I think at the time it was still like now, now I'm going through exposure and response prevention therapy, which is actually like gold standard for treating OCD. I think at the time a lot of providers when I would go to counseling, they wanted to focus on kind of my childhood and the cause. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Instead of seeing it as it was, like the root causes you have OCD, not all these things that happened to you. - Yeah. - Like, yeah. So I think a lot of them thought, okay, if we address childhood trauma and just experiences from childhood, that these thoughts will stop. - Yeah. - And time and time again, they did not. So now my therapist, we're doing exposure and response prevention therapy. And what that is, is it's a kind of, it's based in cognitive behavioral therapy. So it's looking at like the way that your brain kind of associates certain things. And so like exposure and response prevention therapy really is like taking though that those thoughts and images, bringing them to the forefront, kind of exposing yourself to it on a fairly frequent basis. And then a lot of times they'll ask you not to engage in like the neutralizing behavior. So like for me, the tapping and counting in fives. And really what that does is it shows the individual, you know, you can sit with this anxiety. It's not gonna kill you. Like, it may feel like it at the time. It may be very uncomfortable. But these thoughts are just thoughts. Because I think the difficult thing, well, I know the difficult thing for people with OCD, like versus somebody who just like, you know, we know that people experience intrusive thoughts is actually a very common experience. But the difference between someone with OCD and someone that doesn't have it is somebody that doesn't have it can say, wow, that was a really uncomfortable thought. I'm glad it's just a thought and move on. Whereas like somebody with OCD, my therapist now describes it as sticky brain. Like the thought is persistent. It's there, it's in your face, it doesn't stop. Like, and it's like it's its own person. Yes, yes. And then it takes you on this tangent of like, who am I as a person? What am I gonna do this? What if I wanna do this? Whereas like somebody that doesn't have OCD can say, yeah, that's just weird, I'm never gonna do that. Like, I'm like learning so much. Like this is such an interesting conversation for me, just 'cause like I, you explained it kind of perfectly. Like, I have intrusive thoughts, like really fucked up intrusive thoughts sometimes. But it's just like, okay, Becky, that was really screwed up and just kind of walk away from it. Yeah. And like, I'm sitting here thinking about people, like how often this might be undiagnosed for people. And like, where people just dwell instead of speaking. And I feel like when you speak it, there must be some healing involved in that, because you're allowing yourself to recognize what you're going through rather than just having to deal with it yourself. Yeah. I'm curious if, like, how does your daily life change with this? Is there like anything, like how do you live day to day? Is there, is there something that you think about often or is it something you changes that you have to make? I mean, it's certainly, it's certainly up and down. It depends on the day. I think on days when the images and urges, 'cause I experience more than images and urges, the thoughts kind of, they come as well. But it's like, I really see the images and urges a lot more. I will say the one big thing that has changed, is even though I know that I'm not a danger to anyone, I'm not going to harm anyone, like I do tend to avoid children. Just, which is sad, 'cause I do want to be a parent. Yeah. But I'm very, like, the thoughts and urges tend to get more upticked when I'm exposed to children. And a lot of times it's literally just the images and urges towards that specific infant that I was having it towards. It's not even like-- The one that you're with. Yeah, exactly. And so, but it does, part of doing this therapy will hopefully make it so that I can be around children and I'm not distressed. 'Cause that's the big thing is now, it causes a lot of anxiety. And so, I know I have family members that are now having kids. And it's like-- I would love to be able to be a rest. Yeah, I would love to be around like your kid without feeling a bad person. Yeah. And do your family members know about this? Is this something that's like-- I would say my immediate family knows. But most of my extended family was not aware. They were aware that I was hospitalized that I was having mental health issues. But they were not fully aware of what that looked like. This is off track and off topic. No, almost. My squirrel brain. But did you have any type of pushback or did you have support when you first came out and then when you decided to transition? Did you have the support of your family through those? No. OK. Not-- my mom was not unsupportive. But she was just like, are you sure? Because I think, again, she was not around people that were transgender. She was not really-- she grew up in a smaller town than I did. So I think she just was like, she was more worried of what it would do for me. In this world, especially where the role is going right now, I think she was more just worried. Are you sure? This is you? Yeah. And if you are, how can we keep you safe? And what about your brothers? Did they support you? Oh, they were fine. Yeah. They're just going to go whatever. Like they're like, cool. Yeah. We'll call you whatever you want. I know. What do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions about OCD? And I guess I don't even want to say specifically yours because I feel like your kind of OCD isn't widely known. So there are-- - Yeah, there are. isn't, but in general, what do you feel like some of those misconceptions are? I mean, I certainly think the misconception surrounding OCD broadly is like this thought that like, oh, it's just people that clinics like excessively or people that you don't have to check things, but also just, you know, I'll hear people say, oh, like I clean all the time, like I'm so OCD. And these individuals are cleaning because they just don't like chaos, whereas like somebody that has a contamination, like fear and rooted in OCD, they're not cleaning because they don't like disorder, they're cleaning because they may be having these thoughts of if I don't clean myself or somebody that I love is going to get a disease and that disease may kill them. So it's very fear based versus I just don't like disorder. I mean, I, I'm not a, like, I've said that before too, right? Like I've said it in the same, yeah, same in situations and it, it's conversations like this that make you more mindful of those things that you say, especially around people, you don't like, you might not know what people are going through kind of around you. You mentioned that in our conversation outside of this, you mentioned that there was, there wasn't always support after your diagnosis that there were some struggles just around that. Can you, can you speak to that a little bit? Yeah, I mean, certainly in the army, there was no support. It was, I remember my therapist in the army at one point. And again, this is prior to diagnosis, but she looked at me and she was like, why do you keep entertaining these thoughts? Like, they're obviously upsetting you. Like, why, why do you keep thinking on it? Why are you dwelling on this? Like, you're just making your life more difficult. Yeah. And it's like, wow, I didn't think to stop thinking about this. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Like, I haven't tried that at all. And then, you know, she would, she just like said a lot of stuff where I was like, oh my goodness, like, I remember she was like, when, you know, when I work with people, I know that certain people are going to be okay, but you, I do wonder about and I wonder if I'm going to see you on a newspaper one day. And I'm just like, like a therapist said that. Like, what the heck? I speak, I am a fool. I believe people need therapy. Yeah. I think that is good. Say everyone. But I also stand in your shoes of some people, it's fascinating that therapy therapists have such an impact on your life. Yes. And some people just have can have a bad therapist that like, give you really bad advice. And it's so sad because like, and I tell people all the time, I'm like, here's the thing. If you, if someone is not working for you, be up for them. If they take offense, they weren't a good therapist anyway. Of course. And be like, please do not stop trying to advocate for yourself and reach out for help. Yeah. Because you will find it if you continue to put yourself out there. But again, like that pushback that I received, you know, the army was fully under the mindset that I was not safe to be around people. Was the message that I was getting. I'm sorry, fuzzy just went and went and broke. But so like, and I remember it like fun. It did. I saw it float right. But I just remember like the social worker that I was working with, what, you know, as I was getting ready to leave, she was like, this is a good thing for you. Like the VA will be able to help you find residential care. Like, their mindset was you're not going to function outside of a controlled environment and you shouldn't. Wow. And that was the message that I was going to get. It may not have been their intent. Yeah. But that certainly was what I internalized from that. And you know, even it just makes it very hard to share your story, I think, and like reach continuously, reach out for help because you're just like, well, these people think I can't do it by myself anyway. So I don't, I have a question and I don't want it to seem insensitive. No, you're identifying as a female while you are going through this, right? Yes. Like if you one more maybe had already transitioned or if it was a biological male, that was going through this, it would have been taken in different content contexts. Like, do you think that they would have like been more fearful because it wasn't like probably honestly? Yeah, I think probably. I think they were still obviously concerned enough to like one the mother. Yeah, of course. But I think had I been like a, like a biological male or had I identified this male at the time, they certainly would have, I don't know that they would have done anything different. Like I think I still have been hospitalized like consistently. I think the discharge process probably would have gone a lot faster than it had. I just, I just think of like a biological male in this situation. And if they have said that, if they would have just like sent him to jail or like, I would be concerned about that. Yeah. Even though I wasn't in that situation, like I very much was being treated like I had already done these things. Like, I had harmed this child. Like I had intent to harm this child. You know, like the separating me saying like while I was in the army saying like you are not to be unsupervised with children. Like, I was monitored during the day at all times during the duty day. And when I was off duty, I was to check in by phone every two hours until I went to bed. Wow. So it was like, I was very, they kept a very close tabs to make sure, you know, that nothing happened even though that was never my intent. Like I never wanted anything to happen. And I was very upfront saying like, I'm scared that I'm going to do this, but like I don't want to do it. Yeah. Do you, um, do you feel like that stigma is around mental health or stigma is just around OCD affected? Just your healing journey and your journey in general? Definitely. And I think it's hard when you see yourself as a very strong and independent person and then get put and like humbled into a position of like, I need help. Yeah. But certainly as a service member, having to seek that, it presents its own unique set of challenges because you are constantly, at least at the time, you know, you're constantly told like, you know, if you have mental health issues, you're unstable. Like I remember like my sergeant, like higher sergeant didn't know what was going on, but like they were responsible for transporting me to the hospital and they're like making jokes about me being crazy. And like the nurse was clearing out of my stuff and I just kind of was like, well, I don't even know what to do. Like, I can't say anything like you're my superior. I just kind of have to deal with it. Yeah. But it's like, it's insensitive comments like that. It's insensitive nature. Well, and me already, me already thinking that I'm crazy. Like because I honestly was at the point, like because the thoughts were so frequent, because they were so intense, like I thought I was losing my mind. Yeah. So that certainly didn't help. Yeah. What, I'm for your own healing process, like what, I know we just talked about therapy a little bit, but like what did therapy, therapy play in your, in your healing? Oh, it was, it was everything. I think CBT, like cognitive behavioral therapy certainly was life changing for me. I think, can you explain what that is? Yeah. Actually what they'll do is kind of be a hero therapy. It's taking like thoughts, so they call them stack points. So like, these are thoughts or beliefs that you have about yourself or the world. It's identifying how that individual views themselves or the world, and then typically those are negative thoughts. So they'll challenge those thoughts and then try to substitute it with something that is more realistic to what is actually the reality. And through that process, you kind of recognize, okay, like so one of my stack points was I'm a bad person. So what I would have to do is I'd have to sit, I'd have to talk about the act of what we call an activating event, like what made me think I was a bad person. So I would list that out and then I would rate how much I believe that I was a bad person. And then we would go through and identify evidence for and against that and then kind of say like what is a more balanced thought? And it just helps kind of bring clarity to okay, like maybe I was thinking in black and white thinking maybe I was thinking this all or nothing situation. But in reality, this is really what this looks like. Yeah. Do you feel like therapy is now like, because there's no medicine that at least of right now that can help or that you have an explored to help you is therapy is something that now is just going to be integrated into your life. Like always. Oh certainly. Certainly. I mean, I do take medication. Yeah. And it does help to an extent. And there are medications that can help bring balance to it. I don't know like the effectiveness versus the not like for me. It's effective to an extent. It does help with like the vividness of the images. But in terms of the frequency that I'm experiencing, that I'm still experiencing it like quite frequently. So I think therapy really is going to be like a solid thing in my life, probably consistently. Like I'll go stretches and not have it. But typically I have to return just for the maintenance of it. Yeah. How do you balance that right? Because life's fucking hard. And so like there's always going to be up and down struggles of life being thrown at you in the mix of everything. How do you try to find that balance of like balancing your own like care and mental well-being and combating with like life in general? I think I'm still discovering that balance. I think one of it, part of it is knowing like it's not like a perfect ratio and knowing like some weeks are going to look different. Some weeks I'm going to have to. really do the work in therapy and some weeks I'm really gonna have to use what I learned because sometimes I still feel like I'm a bad person, you know what I mean? Versus like on other weeks when I'm thinking clearly it's knowing like okay like this is the time that I need to be productive, this is the time that I need to get things done, this is the time that I need to be on top of life stuff because I think anybody living with a mental health disorder or challenge understands like there are times when you just you can't do anything. And sometimes those periods last longer than others so I think it's finding gratitude and knowing like okay on the good days like I'm very grateful for this and then on the bad days like what can I do to reach out to the support systems that I put in place? How do you manage expectations and thoughts around what people are thinking of you too right like family or friends or people that know this about you? How do you how do you manage like overthinking like I wonder if they're thinking about this about me right now? It was certainly more challenging in the beginning. I think I focused heavily on that because so when they had the duty to warn the mother they didn't necessarily tell me what they told her and I remember being like hyper fixated on like I didn't want people to think that I was a bad person or a monster or anything and like it just made me feel very shameful whereas now like I think it's almost like a you know fuck with they think kind of mentality because at the end of the day like I know who I'm in and I think that I have to I do my best to surround myself with people that remind me of that. Yeah and if a family member or an acquaintance or somebody doesn't understand that I truly believe that it's just not somebody that God wants in your life like and it's just one of those things that it's you know I can't control what other people think. I can do my best to educate them I can do my best to provide them with information about what living with this looks like but ultimately you can lead a horse to water or you can't make them drink it. A thousand percent. What does what does that community look like? You you've mentioned before to me that you want to be able to help support other people that might be having similar struggles. What you know what does that community mean to you? Community I think community is so important and I think as I get older I recognize that because people cannot they cannot get better without that you know what I mean like we need each other like humans or social creatures and to provide like for me cultivating that like environment of support cultivating that environment of like people that are open and willing to go on this journey with me has been everything and I think that sometimes there's learning bumps like okay like maybe I can trust this person you put yourself out there and then it kind of just backfires but I'm always realizing like that's like a minor setback and not not not continuing to reach out like is just a detriment to yourself. Yeah. Have you found anyone else? Have you like communicated or found support groups or anything of those sorts that? You don't really have that. Like that have had that have similar diagnosis? No I mean certainly not in my area and I think that's part of the challenge is like to know that there are people that experience this but to feel like you're alone because you don't know anybody and you know you can only people in your life that don't go experience it can only meet you at a certain point and I think for me it's been challenging not to know people that also experience this in a way just because I can't like bounce things off of them like what did you do to get through this? Yeah. But I'm hoping like having this conversation being able to educate people as I go like we'll encourage people to come forward if they do wonder if they're struggling with this. So that we can all work together to help combat that stigma. Yeah. What if you know if say someone that is listening might be struggling with with this or you know questioning is this is this something that's happening to them? What kind of advice would you you give? Certainly like if this is something that you do believe that it may resonate with you or you may be experiencing seek help but also seek somebody like that specifically works with OCD because I think that was that was the problem that I ran into in the beginning was like the people that were treating me didn't like have as much knowledge like about OCD so it was like they were treating me as like oh this is a reality that you're going to like do these things versus somebody that understands OCD can say okay like this is how we're gonna address this like and walk you through it well. If you're experiencing this and you're concerned about hurting yourself or hurting others like the hospital is always an option like if you really think that you're gonna hurt somebody the hospital is always an option but it's not it's not an end-all-be-all you know what I mean like if you have to go there just to get better for the minute okay like we got you there now let's get you to the resources that you that will truly help you. Yeah and it's almost almost like you need to keep advocating for yourself to right? Yeah 100% try you know just if the answer that is given to you might not be the reality of what's happening and making sure that you're seeking seeking the right care and like you're not crazy right yeah and you you are your best advocate like nobody knows you like you know you so if if you're experiencing this and you go to a doctor and they just seem dismissive please please please continue to seek somebody else. And what do conversations now look like do you allow for your circle or people that you're close with to help you through this is are you speaking to them about the times that you kind of are a little bit lower than than you want to be. Yeah I certainly do I talked to my mom a lot about it I would say and just you know like oh like the thoughts are really bad today or the images are really bad today like and that helps me just because she'll remind me like oh have you tried doing a thought challenging log have you tried you know have you tried this so like having somebody that can remind you like oh yeah there there are things that work that I can try that make me feel better. What do you hope that people take away from this if someone's listening what's like some of the that biggest I just I think I hope that people take away like individuals that experience OCD in this way they're not dangerous in fact like I would argue that they're more of a danger to themselves than they are to other people because of how distressing like this experience can be I would encourage people to listen non-judgmentally because I think especially if someone worked to share details of what they're experiencing with you it can be quite shocking I know when I was in the hospital I kind of my therapist had encouraged me to speak like in a group therapy session about the thoughts of what I was experiencing and the looks that I got like that you don't understand how much of an impact you can have on somebody like without even trying so I think being able to listen non-judgmentally to that person and say wow this is this sounds like it's a very difficult and distressing to you why don't we try to get you help like I'm willing to go with you like offer to go with that person even say you know what you know that sounds challenging let's get you the hope that you need maybe I can come with you if you're you're okay with that yeah and what's what's kind of that next step for you and you're in your healing journey I think for me definitely doing this exposure in response prevention therapy is the next step and then just continuing to have these conversations with people like even in my circle even in my community and just trying to show people like any not even just OCD but anybody that struggles with mental like mental health issues like there are people too and like they're perfectly wonderful people like yeah they're capable of of working they're capable of working in all sorts of jobs and occupations I know when I was in college after the army I did a vocational rehab at first which is helping service connected veterans with disabilities get jobs essentially and at the time I was wanting to go for social work and the the vocational rehab counselor was like no like they have to approve like the thing the path that you take so she would not approve that because she said that it would upset my quote unquote disability which is my mental health so knowing like it's not a barrier to doing these kinds of things or anything that you want to do it's like people outside people putting limitations on your ability like putting you in a box just because they're their own fears of oh yeah whatever um what anything else right we're you know we're kind of coming to that and like any and the other points that you want to make sure people understand or different aspects of you know OCD how do people so how can you support someone if maybe someone listening has someone in their life and they're looking to better support them I think the the best way to support someone listen non-dujementally meet them where they're at because like I know some people especially when I was experiencing stuff early on it was like well you're not a bad person or you're like you wouldn't do this kind of thing and it came from a place like that was good but it didn't way it was kind of invalidating because it was like, I fully believe that I was this bad person. And I think being willing to listen to their experience and maybe not even not even necessarily give advice apart from, hey, like this seems to be something that you're challenging with, like you're challenged with, why don't we speak to somebody? And then if somebody does have to go through the hospital kind of process, maybe, you know, saying, hey, I'm here every step of the way, like, I still love you, like don't treat that person any differently either. I think it's a big thing. Like, they're still the same person that they were, even if they are struggled with, like struggling with these thoughts, like, it doesn't change who they are as a person. And I think reminding yourself of who that person is is really important. If anyone wanted to reach out to your contact you, what would be the best way that someone could do that? Whether Instagram or email, probably Instagram or email. Okay. What's your Instagram? I'll add it in the description. I think it's in OXA OE, but I have to check. It's so fascinating that people, you're not, this happens every time. I'm not a big social media person at all. Like, I have it, but I don't do much with it. In OXA OE 96. Okay. And I will add that in the description and we have some resources also in the description. And my final question to you is, if you could tell your younger self anything, what would it be? I would say keep fighting and keep learning. Like, there's always, life is gonna give you a curve balls all the time, but it does get better. And I have a tattoo on my arm that says stay. And like, for me, that's like, stay for the opportunity. I have a set, I love that. But for me, it's like, stay for the opportunity for things to get better. You know, and then keep learning. Like, you, you will be able to accomplish so much in this world if you're willing to listen to the world around you. And just always fight for that. Like, fight for that. Yeah. Well, Noah, thank you so much for sharing your story with us today. Your bravery in speaking openly about a topic that's often misunderstood is so powerful. And it's gonna help so many people feel less alone. Your insight and passion for breaking down a stigma remind us of the importance of compassion and education when it comes to mental health. To anyone listening, if you're struggling, please know that their support out there. And you don't have to face it alone. Thank you all for tuning in. And we'll see you next time on For the Haters. Thanks for listening to For the Haters. Don't forget to connect with us on socials. Follow, like, and share to help more people find this community. And remember, they're not alone. And if you haven't yet, join our Facebook group. We'd love to have you there. The more we grow, the more lives we can impact. [Music]