Live Workshop: Helping 2 Ecommerce Founders Break Past $100K/Month

We're back here with a split format with some of our clients from the community. We're going to workshop on some brands over the next 60 minutes. Joyce, how about yourself? Give us a little bit of backstory in terms of your situation and last money dates. I have 12 years of corporate experience and a couple of years ago I was made redundant and then within the last two months with that drop shipping store I made 10K. Haas, can you jump in and share a little bit about your brand specifically? I started with basically a hiking brand. We tried to scale it and we did scale it up to like 10K per month but product quality wasn't getting a lot of charge back and refunds so I just closed it then I was like I really need to focus into this one and like in the last 90 days we were able to scale it up to like 26K. Have been any key moments through your journey with E-Com Capital that you would say have helped the most? It was less about faith and it's more about strategy. Thanks to him I like everything I have learned. I've learned from him. Because I tell you what both of you guys the number one blocker that you're going to experience between where you are now and the 100-150k dollars a month is all the possibilities of things that you could do. But before you do that tell us a little bit about where you were before you joined E-Com Capital and then I want to hear just the last like 90 days in terms of what you've been working on, what's been happening in the business specifically and then we'll jump over here Joyce's story. Yeah so I joined E-Com Capital like a year ago I started with Mountain Jaguar which was like basically a hiking brand. We tried to scale it and we did scale it up to like 10k per month but product quality wasn't good so I was like getting a lot of charge back and refunds so I just closed it and I was working on this brand which I have right now side by side and then I was like I really need to focus into this one and like in the last 90 days we were able to scale it up to like 26k viewer up to like 32k page but just for like two or three weeks we have a really bad fluctuations and that brought down the comments a little bit but yeah. What were you doing before you started the E-Commerce business and what was going on in your environment? What was the day to day for you? I was a long haul truck driver so I used to I used to do like from here to states like to Florida. I've been almost everywhere in the streets and in the states so. So not exactly like E-Commerce native or kind of tech native took that kind of jump out of driving the trucks and then moved over into building something digital. I would say I always wanted to build something off my own like I have like it's mine so like you know and I always have that in me and I would say like E-Com capital really helped me like because I knew like I can I can make this but I didn't know like what's the structure like who's gonna train me. I'm like I want to build this thing I know I have this idea I know I need to move to the next level and obviously like we we talked about this a lot like you you traveled a lot you've seen a lot of things you worked hard and you wanted to build an asset there's no asset so yeah. Yeah yeah when I started my like first brand I remember like I used to 10 calls while it works so I think him and knows that so yeah. Driving in the truck and listening to the call. Yeah. That's a long and dangerous man. Joyce how about yourself give us a little bit of backstory in terms of your situation and last 90 days. Yeah my backstory I have 12 years of corporate experience in financial services but a couple of years ago it was made redundant and I'd always have some sort of like side hustle even those incorporate and so I think it was the universe as way to go you can have the time now to like build your own thing and I spent that first year chopping and changing to our chopping and changing between different online businesses so I learned how to publish books I learned how to like do digital marketing and one of the things that I also was chop shipping and I'm like after that year I'm like I need to kind of focus and decide where I'm going to kind of yeah focus my efforts so I yeah I started a drop shipping store last year and with another econ coaching group team and that source and successes but it died well the ad creative died I just didn't know how they're like make it keep going and then I joined econ capital in the Vembo last year so it's only been a few months with the viewpoint to like really like to build a brand as opposed to having a drop shipping store but you know in learning all the things that you learn as being part of the community it made sense for me I was actually just going to not like revive my drop shipping store I'm like I'm done with it like I've tried so many times I sold the products on Etsy etc etc like I knew it sold but I was just kind of done but I'm like no actually let me just like try again let's see and so I started writing ads again in January late January and then within the last two months with that drop shipping store I made 10k whilst I'm building the other brand which is in the supplier stage at the moment so very cool what would you say and I'm just curious I'll ask a couple of questions to each of you just in relation to I guess like what's been helpful working with the team working with the Hammond community and coaching etc just some of the key points that you feel like have provided the most value to you that's helped you to get the results that you have got harsh what would you say have there been any standout things or for you you know starting as you know the truck driver situation have been any key moments through your kind of journey with econ capital that you would say have helped the most I would say meta as of course thanks to him I like everything I've learned I've learned from him so it's like kind of my mentor I would say and I'm also helping kind of I'm like insulted like kind of I'm not sure I'm a little bit sick for him no no I have a lot of respect for him and I'm actually working with my friend as well helping him to make him make his stir so and I know actually like now what I'm doing and how the structures work so it's been really helpful so everything I've learned I've learned from me com capital for sure love that love that very cool and in terms of so the meta adds or one skill that you feel like you're pretty confident in now that you weren't before yeah I would say meta adds I would say and yeah love that Joyce how about yourself any key standout things for you that you feel like has been the most helpful yeah there are many but top three for me number one is that you the econ capital makes reaching 100 came months very normal and in my prior coaching experience when I made a set one shop with my it almost but like I was just doing this whilst you know I was costing my fingers for anyway and and so coming into econ capital it was less about faith and it's more about strategy which is really like the best thing and like number two it's about not just your ad account but it's your website and then how do you pull certain levers as well as price to within that strategy to get to that 10k 100k months that sort of thing so that's been really valuable for me in terms of building this business because again I've not again but I've I'm living off my savings which is scary and I'm taking but I'm taking a bit on myself to go well no actually I actually think that I've got the skills to be able to do this and with the right support and the right coaching there really is going to be a way where it's less about crossing your fingers but more about strategy and that's what I really love hope and vibes I call it yeah let's let's not build a business on hope and vibes no 1000 percent so that's what's been that's what's been really exciting about it do you like like would you say that you feel more confident in terms of like your skill sets from your abilities to be able to kind of get what you want in relation to your business now versus when you first start oh for sure like 10 10k times more yeah just the clarity in when you look at some data on meta you're like okay well is it my answer is it my or is it my store and just getting really clear on that and obviously we threw the coaches and like came in and having consistent contact with him on a weekly basis it really affirms what I'm learning because whenever before I go on the call with him and I'm like I bet he's going to say this blah blah blah blah blah given my data and then I kind of test whether I'm actually learning based on then what he says in the call and it's a really great kind of takeaway yeah well done having what they're from you what's your perspective on these two individuals as far as like any key things that you've observed that you think is contributed to their success from your view absolutely so I actually believe that both of them are as you mentioned like they're very dangerous like in general business coming in they're focused they're serious like this is something I've noticed many times you can prepare a strategy think about it but the moment you run the ads you might act differently or you might actually be scared or not doing the actions you're not taking the risks so I see that both of them technically like we worked like for a long time to fix things in the funnel and updating the business kind of looking at those solutions but you guys actually committed to to fixing the problems and you're very serious you're not coming in to just kind of learn about it and then and do something else and that's something that I always value like I mentioned this to you guys and you know this so like for example you know how she built a brand you did this you got to 10k it was not necessarily good like the product quality was bad you didn't show you just give up so it's something I looked at and you did pivot and rebuilt again and you did two brands which I think it was not the very best thing and I don't think It's good to focus on two things in the same time. Probably Joyce, we can talk about that. But the thing is you double down on the thing that worked and you scaled your business and you're right now stable growing your business. Same thing Joyce, you actually mentioned to me like, I'm full time doing this. I remember you traveling and doing the call and the airport, essentially you're not missing on on events and it's something that I value. Like when I see you're committed, you're doing the work. You're not coming in to just get to 10K. You want to get to 100K, which I think that 10K is good, but 100K is where you have a like serious business and a serious asset. So I think that's a target and I'm very happy to work with you guys kind of getting you to that next level. In terms of criteria to answer your question, I think that they're very serious. Like they committed and they're doing the work, they're not taking this as a side project, essentially. I think that's a very underlying characteristic for a lot of founders that win is they see it. And it's similar to what you said previously Joyce, where it was like, you know, I did a lot of side hustles or I always had a few things on the go. And it's like that kind of gets you to a certain level where you maybe experiment with certain things, but sometimes it can actually be like, I wouldn't say damaging, but almost damaging in the sense where it's like nothing is fully committed to because you don't want to fully fail. So you kind of like try and you try and you try and you try and it seems like with this business, for both of you guys you're like, okay, cool. I figured out some stuff that maybe doesn't work. I figured out what I don't want to do and what's good and bad. Let's go in. You don't remain. And I've never seen an environment whereby a founder that fully commits to the one thing and actually like, you know, continues to invest the resources, the time, the energy, the attention on one thing doesn't win. It might take time, but it's like the outcome is going to be disproportionately better than like a little bit here and a little bit there and a little bit here. So I don't want to recognize you guys for that because it's really rewarding for you, but it's also like for me, seeing that kind of like risk and taking the risk and taking those bold steps. Obviously with, you know, structure and support, which is interesting because I find that what you guys have seen now and Joyce, you mentioned there in terms of, okay, so I have the skillsets and the abilities now that I didn't have before. It's given me so much more confidence that I never had before. And the thing is, if this was to all go away, the coaching and stuff we provide, you would still have the confidence, the skillsets, the abilities to make decisions and continue growing your business. Obviously we can get you there faster and we continue doing that and get you to the 100K level, but it's like, that's where the rule vow you comes from. You know, because the money that your business owns is just an extension of like the skills you develop to be able to make decisions and get certain outcomes, right? And it's like, you would never have got to that level. Either of you guys, if you didn't have the ability to take risks, bet on yourself and go like, this is what I'm serious about. So I just want to double down on that because it's, it's a characteristic that I see strong founders take consistently is they take big bets on themselves, right? And they know that they will catch up in terms of their skills need to sometimes follow through on their bets. And they'll take an investment and be like, well, now you've got to go. You know what I mean? Now I've got a father's group and learn the skill. Yeah. - I think you mentioned it at the previous event, Sasha, but it was like, it's like going to an island and burning the boat. Like, I'm here now, but let's just make this a bit. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And that's definitely true to me. - I think about this. The thing I want to say here is that it's probably from Alex Hermosi, but it's like, expansion is how armies die. It's just like think about it. It's like you're expanding, expanding, you're not doing like, you're not concentrating your effort. And I've seen this in like, like a lot of entrepreneurs, including Sasha here, it's really focusing on one thing and kind of mastering it and making it profitable and scalable rather than just doing these things and you're not necessarily even getting the result because you just don't have that effort to get there. So I think the expansion is not positive for some businesses, particularly e-commerce. It's really focusing on one thing. What is work is it's creative, there's a lot more of it and then finding that gap and kind of doubling down on it. - So let's jump into some particular details for each of your businesses because I think you guys have done some great work in the last three months, six months, et cetera, but I think in terms of, the way that I'd like you to think through the rest of this conversation is like this. So, and this is the way that I think towards myself in relation to the future all the time. So I'm like, okay, so, and if you think about when both of you started versus where you are now, how much knowledge, skills, abilities, like just reflect for a moment when you first started in e-commerce capital and think about like how laughably stupid you were with so many things. Can you, can you remember? Like, create is and ads and like running, oh my God, financials, oh my goodness. And so, if you think through that lens and you go, okay, so, whoa, like, if that version of me who started three months ago, six months ago has somehow, oh my God, who even was I, how dumb was I. I do this all the time myself, how bad was I, and I managed to get to where I am now, which is okay, like it's like, I've done all right, but it's like think about you now and think about the knowledge and the skills and the abilities and the experience and the kind of risk profile you've got. Right, and it's like, whoa. Right, and so if we think through that lens in relation to the future, it's like, imagine how much better, faster, and also more accurate you could be with relation to the outcomes you're gonna get from the future. Does that make sense? It's like, it's wild because what happens is people take a certain outcome that they've kind of like generated from a lesser skilled version of themselves from the past and they get some good results. And then they still continue taking kind of small bets that almost reflect their beginner mindset. And this is something that I will continue to do, and I know it happens very good at this because he always anchors it as if the 100 came up, this just, what? You're not there yet? It's like hurry up already, you know? And so it's like, we will always push you to get to that level faster because we also know that it's like that. In the same way that when you started and now you've gone from there to here and you look back and you go, oh yeah, that was like, sure there was some things I had to learn but like G's do to happen pretty easy. It happened pretty fast. If you look back, you were like, it was kind of difficult but it's like you didn't all of a sudden like become Einstein and learn like the theory of relativity. There was a few key pieces of learnings that you'd learned and some coaching time that you spent with Hamman and you're like, okay, cool. And the next double or the next triple or the next 10x will be the same. It goes from where you are now and all of a sudden you'll wake up and it will be August and you'll be like, oh yeah, we just did 140,000 this month. - Yeah, it's like I'm waiting, where's the million? I actually have some messages like, okay, where's the million? Where's the million? That's the thing. And we were talking about 10k before but right now it's like, okay, where's my million? - And so the reason I wanted to put that in perspective first is because when you think through that lens and you look at like the future of where your business is going it also helps you to constrain onto the things that you need to do and not need to do now. 'Cause if you continue thinking small, how could we go from 10 to 12, 12 to 14, 14 to 16, 25 to 30, 30 to 32, 32, et cetera, et cetera. Like you're thinking very small multiples and then you make decisions based on, oh, how can I just get a couple of extra points here? How could I get a couple of extra points there? Versus if we go, okay, so if we need to get to 100k, if we need to get to 180,000, what needs to be true in the company? Like how do we need to make decisions today right now that's gonna constrain your focus? Because I tell you what both of you guys, the number one blocker that you're gonna experience between where you are now and the 100, 150,000 dollars a month is all the possibilities of things that you could do. That is gonna be the biggest blocker. Right, I could do this. I should do that. That would be nice. That's a suggestion. Oh, that's a good idea. Maybe they had success and maybe I should do that as well. Right, both of you are gonna be massively constrained. Also mainly because you're, I'm assuming, still pretty well one man operators, one woman operators. You don't have the heaps of resources, you don't have heaps of people. And so your attention, similar to what Haven mentioned, in terms of like how that gets diluted as the business grows. So your ability to continue refining that focus onto the one thing is gonna be your superpower. And if you look at, there's a company all birds, I don't know if you probably know them, harsh, they sell sneakers over in the US. They were like, they're a huge company. They were valued at $4.2 billion, right? And then they IPO'd, they went on for the public market in the US, they opened into shoes, clothing, sports gear, a number of different verticals. Their main product was shoes, okay? They IPO'd at $4.2 billion, two years later, they were valued at $150 million. Like 90% wipe out of their entire value, mainly because all those other verticals weren't tested. Right, no one was buying those things yet, they were entering into the retail, they were trying to penetrate marketplace, they were trying to do paid ads. And so they had to lose 90% of their valuation to then go, we just do shoes now, which is what they should have done to begin with. Do you know what I'm saying? And so it's very much the same with you founders, just replace the full billion with 25,000 or 10,000. And we go, we must concentrate the efforts to then get up to the level where we can continue, diversifying attention and scaling. - I think also, like just like Joyce, for example, you were in a situation where like you mentioned, like I need to create this income, right? I need to create a little stress coming from that. But just touch your where all the entrepreneurs are creating their income. So you're kind of entering the level where it's expected. Wherever you want, you can actually get it, but you need to prepare for that. I need to do the work. So I think that shift or because you've been in the corporate space for a while, which is kind of like, "Hey, I'll do the work and I'll be paid." It's essentially very different business where you use to the opposite. It's actually, "We'll do the work and then we're going to get the returns, but the returns are not proportional to the time." And I think you're right now discovering that it took you a year, you did like 10,000, like in that probably 13,000, that first year, but then in a month you do like the 10K. But reality is it's one week where you made 3000 plus. So if you think about it, it's almost like it's not proportional. Now think about it. The next month you get to 20, 30K, 50K, 100K. It's going to be, again, very possible, but you need to do the work. So I see this from that perspective. There's no limitation. Congratulations, you can scale your income, but it's going to be tied to your work. So that's the challenge. Yeah, for sure. And that's the reason why I wanted an online e-commerce business because it's a ability to scale. There were so many things in there, Sasha, that you mentioned. But one thing that's really resonated with me is that the whole notion of next time you do something, you just ultimately will get faster and faster and faster. Or the returns and the rewards will get faster. So for me, the version of my drop shipping store, it is effectively the sixth version of the drop shipping store. Like I've had two runs of it on Etsy. Etsy has this thing where it scans their marketplace and if they identify that you're a drop shipping or a suspension account, I tried that twice. And I'm like, okay, well, this is not sustainable. I'm going to go build my Shopify store. And then, yeah, this is the fourth version of my Shopify store. But every single time, it's been like, I've just acquired new skills and I'm faster at this now. And I can read my metadata started better now and I can change my store at a whim now. It's really like, I just accumulate all those skills. But that's also part of the reason why I was like, I don't know if I'm going to resurrect this store. But there's just something in me that tells me like, no, this can actually work. I just need to refine it. And just go. So I think on a tactical level, I think that both of you guys are in somewhat similar stages in terms of like you're in that 10 to 100 K level. Harsh a little bit further along in terms of more volume, more creatives, more kind of ad spend, and then also more revenue, right? And then Joyce, I don't know, maybe next time we speak, you'll be ahead of Harsh. We're not seeing. I'm position. I was just more than him. I'm covering after you, Harsh. But it's actually just, you should be scared. But I think he should be scared if I was to look at it from that perspective because you went from like almost 0 to 10 K, which essentially is like you're kind of getting fast within two months, you get to a certain level that took him a little bit more, I would say. But I would say that, you know, you can really definitely do more. And it's again, it's a fair market. So if you do more work, you're going to be rewarded. And I think both of you guys are like, I, I, I, I, I, I, it doesn't seem like you're very competitive, but you have a very scalable business. But I would say you should be more competitive. You should look at, well, I need to kind of get to the 100 K fast because I'm like, not as fast as I should be without taking the risk we talked about, like those kind of weird things you do when you want to double your business. So I think in terms of the levels that you, each of you want to pull on, I think, I mean, like from what we went through earlier in terms of the numbers, I think the inconsistency as an example, Harsh, like to tackle that, I think that the main thing that you want to establish, I mean, I think that's what I'm going to do. Let me ask you this. In terms of your ads that you have at the moment you mentioned, you've got three to five, are, was it three to five kind of concepts or sorry, seven to eight kind of like winners, that are currently working in and then one to two that are producing like good volume. So do you have within your ad account at the moment based on the volume you're spending? Are there a few kind of like angles or messages, maybe like hooks that you've defined as like this crushes? Like this, like do you have that kind of established? Yeah, of course. The winners I have, I always try to make iterations of that first and then I try like testing new concepts. So like suppose if I have like if you have a, if you drink too much coffee, then you need my lip balm, for example, or if you smoke, then you like need my lip balm. So if I, if I found that, okay, smoking angle is obviously working really good, then I will make more iterations of that angle rather than just, you know, experimenting new angles, I would say. Yes. So just to take that and then roll that. So Joyce, that is the kind of the current thing that needs to be your focus, right? Because what I'm just going to assume right here for a second, but I would imagine the creatives that you're putting into market, some are working, some are not working, some are good, some are bad. But perhaps you don't yet have three, four strong established like, okay, this angle talking about coffee and association seems to always work, right? And so similarly within your account, we want to have like established, okay, so this angle, when I talk about the light in this format with this kind of avatar in mind, it seems as though we're always getting the attraction and we're always getting performance, right? And so as you scale up what's going to be more and more and more required because has the biggest risk that you have is, okay, what happens if two or three of those volume-based performance ads tank and you haven't got anything to take their place? Then your performance is going to go through the fall and that inconsistencies going to turn into a downwards trend, right? And in the same way Joyce, for you, your kind of old like other version of that is like, okay, so what are my three or four angles that I'm locked into that I'm iterating on? And they represent the 80% of spending the account like harsh to iteration, iteration, iteration, iteration. They are the strong things that your business then gets built on because it's like, I don't know if you guys yet have fully experienced the crushing nature of like one ad that hits like a 5, 6, 7, X, relwebs. And then it scales relwebs and it scales volume. And you're like, good job. It's a very rare amount of work. It's a lot of work. It's not an easy thing. But when you see it, it's beautiful. Like it is. It's like you're witnessing like a child's birth and God at the same time. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. It's like it's just the ad account. It's like you wake up. It's so good when you see the 9x multiple. You can increase the budget. It doesn't tank. I've seen it again. One took a business to like more than 100k in revenue. I showed this even in some of the 10, like 100k level. Like we've seen this like one ad with just magical. It just takes you to the next level. Yeah. I'm looking forward to just having that as a reality. Thanks guys. No, but the reason I think that's important is because I always like to think of it in the inversion perspective. And so it's like harsh as an example. What is the best performance as far as where as goes within the ads in your ad account at the moment? Like have you had like a 3x, if you had a 4x, like what's the kind of performance that you've had? At a consistent level, not like a one day we made a lot of sales and we turned, you know then like what's a consistent performance where I was? Right now I have a one the UGC AIR which is like at 1.8 roas I would say and it has spend around 800 dollars which is like a volume driver to my account I would say. But I have other ads which are not getting like enough spend but I'll write like 3 roas maybe 4 roas. So yeah. Got it. Okay. So the thing is this, let's say for example we just take that 4x well as ad and so okay. Now the main block of it, like I said this my ad account could be performing at 4x roas but because I don't yet know how to take my volume seller at 1.8 and bring it up to 4 through creative iteration and messaging and adjusting of like you know sequencing in that creative I'm losing out on 2x the profit that I could be. And so when you think through that lens as far as like okay so what is my performance now? Well it's like 1.8. What could it be? Well it could be 4 because I'm getting 4 in the account. So if I'm getting it one time or I'm getting it consistently in this at a low volume level it just means I need to work out how to scale that up to a 4x level. And your creative process at the moment like all of the engineering of the way you're thinking in relation to your creative wants to be towards that end. It wants to be like okay so I am currently you know getting this you know 4x but we're doing it at a low volume which means that it's working but when it goes up to a cold audience it stops working essentially right so it's like how do I make that same angle that same message that same structure and sequence of the creative more compelling and more attractive to more people and also it's similar to what we said before we turn the podcast on. I do heavily think that there is a component of that that is going to be taking the AI version and turning it human right because it's like there's going to if you think about it from a sophistication level right so we go people that are at the bottom bottom bottom of the funnel and this is for both of you guys bottom of the funnel they already have the exact problem that your product solves they already know your product they're like I need the lip balm I my lips are bad I've tried the other lip balm I'm going to buy this lip balm right Joyce yours is like I've got the light I've got the competitors light I know exactly the type of light that I want all this is in front of me now and this is why your statics work really well Joyce because we're targeting the bottom of the funnel in terms of the people that have the highest degree of sophistication they just need a big f you kind of prompt to buy that's it okay both of you guys have similar kind of structures here and what we will run into is like as we continue going up in the funnel, we're going to target colder and colder people, which means they have higher levels of skepticism. They don't yet know your product, they don't yet know your brand, they've never seen you before, they've not bought a competitors product and if you were to put a hard offer in front of them, it's like going all the way to fourth base when we haven't even gone for a coffee date yet. It's like, wait, what? This is a bit fast. And so as you scale up your budgets, both of you are going to run into the same issue in terms of like, we can continue scaling and scaling and scaling the AI, but you're going to need to get very good in terms of turning the AI ads into something that is like, people look out of the go, yeah, that's AI, but this looks pretty good. Let's buy. That's what you're having at the moment. It's like, yeah, yeah, okay. I kind of need it. I'm going to buy it anyway. It's going from a suggestive kind of a nice to have opportunity to buy into like, how do we take someone that they're like, I don't even know I have that problem, educating about the problem, then convert them. And those people, if they would see the AI stuff, they're going to be like, what, like, how does that fit in with me? You understand what I mean? It's like, we're converting people in the lower stage of the funnel mainly because they are very, very aware. They need to solve the problem. And so as we scale up, your ability, like I said, to get very, very, very specific with that creative process, how you're iterating what you're doing in terms of stages and stages and stages inside of those AI creatives needs to get very good. And then I would be very focused on like, okay, how can I take my best performing AI ads and get them in the hands of a human that looks very similar so that they can then duplicate and take that from full AI into, and then test the AI versus the human side by side. And be like, oh, okay. And that kind of becomes like, think about what you used to happen previously. Okay, so like if we wind back two years ago and AI video, very bad, you know what I mean? Very, very, very bad. You would never use it, okay? And so it's like, humans used to get the UGC creators. They'd send all the product out there. A very expensive expedition to find winning ads, right? And so you're in a position where you've done that in a way where it's almost negligible from a cost perspective, hardly costs anything. But then I think you can amplify by taking it into a human approach and finish. It's like a little cherry on top, the icing on the cake, where it really strengthens the performance. I think that's my view also because of the fact of you're selling a beauty product and women want to feel like they're buying from, there's a lot of safety and trust involved with that purchase, you know what I mean? And it's like, we can trust to a certain degree. Like I said, if I'm low in that stage of the funnel, and I'm like, look, I need the product, I'll buy it from the AI, I'll buy it from a human, I'll buy it from a static, I'll buy it from the video. I don't really care. I'm going to buy it. And I think you're in that concentrated market right now, but we need to start getting in that top of funnel, which will be more sophisticated people. There'll be a little bit more unaware. And this is where you might see more instability. Because what worked in this hyper-concentrated pool of people that are like, they're going to buy anything. Right? We won't work as well here. So you've got to get a lot more advanced and a lot more strategic with AI development to overcome the objections here, as well as I would be very much testing performance in relation to how could I get this best performing content in the hands of a human and amplify that performance even more? I'd love to see that tested. That'd be a B. What's your thoughts on that? How many in terms of that structure? All right. So my structure would be like, I'm probably going to go opposite here. You're probably just like, okay, what are you saying? So I actually believe that, yeah, controversial. Okay, hey, man, going opposite. But I do believe, by the way, that what you're saying is actually what I would think about from that scale perspective. But the thing that I would say is potentially that bottom of the funnel might actually be massive just from a kind of volume perspective. So I'm not saying that this is not a good strategy at all. It might be wrong. It's an amazing strategy. I actually believe it's a very scalable one for a wide market. But think about the bottom of the funnel. It's profitable for you 30% right now. So why would you do something else? I've been to a lot of things that kind of ceiling in that limitation. So my view on this would be, you can really convert people on even out arguing that market by telling them, well, this is an AI video. So essentially revealing that. And this is why you should buy the product. So we can actually position content that's almost like excels at converting people at our, let's say, more kind of inclined to buy from a regular person talking. So I think there are ways to navigate this particular challenge. So my recommendation for you, obviously, this is the next thing to get into a massive market, use the human part, kind of like, use the human essentially to convert. But I still want to see that army of AI content we talked about, kind of conquer the world. That's my view on it. So I still believe that we can scale AI. And by the way, this is for every person looking at this. This is in my opinion, the future. You can test with AI, then you can scale with UGC original content, which makes a lot of sense. But in our case, the bottom of the funnel might be massive. And we are also selling in East case the lip balm. It's actually consumable. So if we're profitable 30% upfront, that makes it kind of an easier way to scale even those sales and we can acquire much more aggressively. That's the key thing that I would add into what I said is like, I only start doing the net new things when there is like a, like say, for example, right now, I ask you next month, double your ad spend, you go to $60,000 in sales and profit margins stay the same. And then the next month, you double your ad spend again and then you go to $90,000, but your profit margin goes to, I don't know, 4,000. Then I'd be like, ooh, okay. Like that's, let's now perhaps look at something of that nature. It's like only when there is something that actually prevents me from doing more of what I'm doing, will I go into something to do it better? Right now, if your margin is 30%, and you're crushing it and you're doing very well, then it's just like, how do I force more volume into the system so that I can test better ads and just scale more? And then at the point where you might see diminishing returns or profitability kind of deep, okay, cool, we have to get better with these ads. People are just, the fatigue is increasing, the click rate is decreasing, the view rate is decreased. We've got to do something to really ratchet up performance. And then I would look to do that then. I wouldn't start doing that and introduce that right now just to make sure, but I agree with you, haven't I think that that's correct in terms of sequencing. Yeah, I think at that level, once you see some kind of performance drop, then I would definitely look at how can we become more precise with the ad content? Yeah, I was actually thinking like once I hit 100k per month, then I would actually have more UGC creators like actual human, but sometimes like when I make ads, we were bringing actual human to positive. So you're actually changing, we did agree on this. It was like, we're going to be AI until the end, if you remember, just surprise. Of course, because sometimes when I make AI ads, I was like, wow, is this is the AI? Because sometimes I cannot believe myself, because I had couple of UGC creators. We're like shocking. I was not aware that you're shocking yourself. You're like, alright. Yeah, because I had couple of UGC creators who created video for me. And now I compared them with what I am creating. It's like they and I difference. Yeah, so that's why I think like AI, I think I can scale this up to a million dollars with AI. By all means, like I said, this is advice based on what MetaReve mentioned as far as like best practice on platform, what they're saying. If you want to prove it all wrong and continue just going, and if the economics of the business continue to demonstrate that you don't need to introduce any humans and just continue smashing the AI, absolutely do that. I think this is an amazing like. I just think this is an amazing like opportunity for you because it's like previously this would never be possible. And now it's possible and you have this real opportunity to take it all the way to the end to degree and see how far you can run with it. You know, I think that's what's most exciting. I do also think similar to what Hammer mentioned, the big unrealized opportunity of back-end sales or anything in relation to renewals or consumables or you know, repeat business. Anything in that nature will also be something that depending on your product quality and depending on the kind of like sequence of communication that you continue to meet people after their purchase once, twice, three charms, etc. That's going to be a big profit center for your business if you run it correctly and the product is very good when they use it. So at the level right now, you might not notice it too much because you're like 26,000. I'm not really making that much on back-end sales. So it's okay but you scaled it up to 100K a month and you could be making $20,000, $30,000 of really high gross margin sales on the back-end and you're not doing that, your business will really notice it. So aiming for like 30 plus percent of like repeat business is a very healthy percentage and it just puts you in a great place where you've got so much extra margin for ad spend to continue reinvesting back into new customers. So I think that's also something to really strongly consider. After you breached that 50, 60, 70K level, I'd be really concentrating on the back-end level as well. Yeah, I'm going to be saying like AI only. So I'm actually going to be controversial like Hey, Heyman, Manus, AI. So I'm really pushing more AI because I do believe by the way, we're still going to have scare such old humans into the market. That's something I'm seeing as well. And I would say within abundance of AI, actually having use of you see content would be something different and it's going to be something that converts better. So I don't necessarily think that we're just going to win by doing only AI, but I believe that at this level, we're actually in a stage where you're doing much better than regular person using AI. So that's an edge that we have right now because the content quality is really good. And for your audience, they're not actually having any opposition around that. They're not saying, no, this is not a good or objection essentially. So for me, it's almost like this is a gap. You have an edge in the market, we should scale as fast as possible. Then we're going to bring the human might be a million, as you mentioned, like a million. But for me, that's like, let's max out this level because we're not there yet. And I think let's focus on human free. Right? That's not going to be okay. I mean, I'd like to, I'd like to just go the other way and say, look, in general, would a human trust a human more or an AI more questionable questionable. Like a AI. I trust more chat GPT. If I was to be in front of the desk from heaven or a chat GPT, here's the thing. Are you guys, are you guys relying on your chat GPT to make all decisions in your ad-cant or are you coming in and having conversations with Hammond about your ad-cant? Of course, hey man. Why? At least I'm not going to do that. But there's nuances to this. You want responses to that question. Yeah. Yeah. Because have you seen lashes AI ads? They look so real. I think I'm thinking it's so so real. I've seen a bunch of them. I think that maybe, maybe a month ago, there was a bunch that I saw that I don't know if they've gotten like disproportionately better things than. Yeah, it's really good. But not only that. But I would say, I trust just to be clear, I do know that you guys are probably going to trust my decision making to a certain level because of the expertise or things that I've seen in the past, potentially, and my current exposure is, but think about this. If I was to tell you, well, chat GPT told you about this thing in terms of information. And then someone told you about that. You're probably going to trust chat GPT just from a reliability information. Like if I was to tell you, well, this thing could save you to say 20% in Chema or whatever. You're going to probably trust more AI than a human because it seems like AI won't fly, right? Just from that perspective. So I would say, AI still have this is like an edge from that. I would say. So yeah, that's why I'm arguing here. I'm going to be pulling it out. I mean, I have running AI ads for like three to four months now. And I haven't got single comment saying that it's AI. So yeah, I think that's a follow-up signal. So very good. Let's continue. Let's continue. I think those are the opportunities that I see with your brand harsh in terms of, and hey, the thing is you might introduce human content in your ads and then all of a sudden it because people have become so accustomed to seeing the AI ads. It actually like downgrades your proportion. Then there's some comparison and they go, oh my god, this is all, who knows? But what you're doing is very strong. I think there's great opportunity to scale it up high. I think big opportunity to push more volume. I think consistency in relation to your ad account structure in terms of how you're doing this testing environment and being very, very, very detailed around. Mondays we do this. This is the performance. Everything's tracked, measured, quantified in terms of what happened and why it happened. You know, Wednesday/ Thursday, new testing goes live and continuing that process very, very, very consistently so that you can continue getting better and better performance out of the winners. And I think there's very big opportunity there for you in the next up and coming period to do something to monetize the existing customers that have already purchased because I think there's a lot of money that is not being capitalized on by using that repeat situation. Simply through suggesting people to come back and purchase or giving them a sequence customer journey that you communicate with them on at certain intervals, I think that will help as well to just generate more revenue for your business and more profit, most importantly. I want to say something, just to be clear, Sush actually is the most popular pro AI person that I know just to be called. I'm sharing with you guys like Manis, he actually introduced me to these tools. So to be clear, he actually was like, hey, you know what? Manis is a good tool. So I know I'm talking about this like just pro AI, but to be honest, you're talking to a person that actually would probably say more AI heavy than like what I've seen in the market. So yeah, just saying this. Haven't haven't took some time to even test the Manis when I sent it to you. I'm like, what are you doing? What? Just use it. It's so good. Let's continue. Joyce, the things that we discussed before in terms of your situation. So conversion rate, one of the biggest blockers at the moment in terms of performance, higher majority value, and then your margins are pretty healthy in terms of what you have access to. Right now, I think your acquisition cost being around that 250 mark is double what it should be and essentially you're paying two extra acquisition. And that's a component of where your profit should have been because you're essentially like 50 to 60% cost is going into ads versus 20 to 30%. So that's where I see the biggest bottleneck at the moment from a conversion rate perspective. Am in any view on this from your lens first in terms of tactical fixes on conversion, right? So yeah, so absolutely. So I do believe that you pick your like you pick a battle and you try to win that battle. So in our case, the first one we got was essentially let's get the winning ads and we got actually some ads as a performing. Right now we're looking at well, the conversion rates. If you have an army of winning ads, it's going to be easier to improve the page versus if you don't have any proven concept and essentially you're optimizing a page with nothing essentially. Like you're kind of trusting even your ads. So the goal was initially working with Joyce was building that kind of infrastructure kind of backend show like sales that we can do so that we can optimize the page. So it was always a goal is get the revenue and then fix the page, but the sequence was very important. So right now, obviously we're having much more stability, much more kind of like stable ads, but now I would say to a certain degree, we're looking at the page and optimizing it and actually work with Joyce in terms of clarity using it to look at the heat zone, like heat map essentially of the page to see where is the, I would say area where or where are the areas that we need to focus on. So my recommendation and she's already aware of that is looking at clarity dissecting those sections. We saw that first picture being like I would say probably a big impact for for her business is going to be split testing, but committing to stable ads, spend what we do that. So as we can see the impact of the conversion rates. So she's already doing that. So I'm assuming, I'm not assuming I know we're going to be cutting the cost in half if we keep doing this and sticking to data in terms of optimization. So that's where we're writing the business heading. Okay, so continuing to split test in terms of image on the landing on the product display page that we said having like that main focus image right? Well, let me let me give some context on that. So when I created the store, I originally had a product page, but it had so I had green, green glass pended lights, but there were four different styles, dependent lights we did in that product page. And then haven was like, um, maybe we should just like, well, not I said that. I'm like, oh, maybe I should just like split out the styles in their own product page. So that made that change. Haven't also looked at my ads and was like, well, you're you're promoting all four of the green lights, but your landing image is only one light. So like, let's get that really clear and like, succinct. So I then just scratch ads for the three other lights and just focused ads on the one light. So once they saw the ad, it made sense that they would then see that light on the product page. And then I changed the images because I was originally, I originally just had images from, you know, six months ago, eight months ago when I started the store. The difference between my images now is that I've used AI and they're more lifestyle images as opposed to the product images that I had initially. So it's been in the last couple of months, like a continual process of refinement, just to make sure that there's consistency in my messaging throughout. So they see an ad and they get to my page and it all aligns truth be told it wasn't that two months ago. So yeah, that's been really cool to kind of walk through that journey on the website side, but whilst, you know, creating the diversity on the outside and getting even more clear on who my avatar is by seeing what ads are working, it's a really cool cycle, right? Because you're like, oh, okay, well, that ads working. I'm clearly talking to the right person there. How do I talk to them better? So yeah, it's just going to be a continual process in the, I guess, ad refinement and ad messaging from me too. So I think that that's super important what you just mentioned there in terms of alignment congruence in terms of how they see the ad versus how they see the landing page versus how they, you know, have that product experience. Like the linkage through that entire thing is like critical. One thing that I want to share, which I think might be helpful for both of you, is this here. So now this is a really good way to think about, for example, versus the typical traditional kind of like avatar or like demographic or like however that looks. But if you use this kind of like, you know, CPO, which is like circumstance problem and then outcome. And so a lot of people certainly lead with the problem, right? This is what you've got. This is the issue. This is the blocker, etc., etc. And so if we look at like circumstance, circumstance really means like the reality that the individual is like living in right now. And this is different from the problem, right? Because the problem is what creates sometimes their reality, their reality is how they talk to themselves in their head. The very things that they experience day to day as part of their circumstances, that then links into the problem which is the direct. like pain, frustration or obstacle that exists right now and then the outcome. So if we link back one level before we go into problem and look at like, okay, so what is the exact like environment that that person is in right now from a circumstantial perspective? What do they do when they wake up? How do they experience this thing? What things are going through their mind? What is the exact language that they are having? Who do they speak to during the day? What are the text messages that they might be sending day to day? What is the language that's going on there? If you can really package that up there and have the conversation through your messaging as if it is linked into the circumstance before you go into the problem because otherwise you're essentially just like problem-forcing and problem-punching and so when you land in that circumstance level first it helps people to go, they get me so I trust them with my problem. They're speaking the same language that it's as if they're in my head right and so the clearer you can kind of articulate the specifics in relation to their current circumstance and what's happening in that circumstance, that factual reality like they're waking up every morning, they're rolling out of bed, they're feeling this as a certain pain. The first moment of thought in their head is this, they check through Instagram, there's two posts from people that they know just like them who've just, I don't know, had X1's their outcome, there's a feeling of dread and uncertainty about going to work. Ziv is going on but really spelling that out helps you to think like what is the language that they are using because the better as market is, so if you think about it, so it's like if we can communicate to them in a way that they want versus us telling them do this or get this, right? It's like we're trying to communicate so that it feels like it's native in their head, versus being like, I'm trying to say some stuff that's going to get you over here and do this. The answer to the main, it's like we're trying to like have them feel as though this is like such a connected message because I'm landing through each of these components that the circumstance, the problem and the outcome in a way that they just like, it's as if this problem, it's as if this product has been designed for me, it's as if it's like this is made specifically for me, the trust factor goes up tremendously and so I think like really linking the messaging a little bit deeper in some of this Joyce, especially and I think for both of you guys, this will help to offset and also increase further the AI usage. So it's like the AI component, all of the ads, how we make it even more trusting, speaking such a way where people read it and they're like, oh, you're in my head. Like I feel as though this is made for me. So this has been very helpful for a lot of clients, it can also very helpful for me and all the marketing that I do is thinking through those three levels and then obviously like said, the outcome, which is like the ideal and I think this is also incredibly important to think of in terms of both of your products is like, what is the outcome and not the product kind of end state and what I mean by that is like your product helps someone to do something and the thing that you sell is not the product but it's the result of them using the product and so it's like the clearer that you can actually like identify that thing and be like, what is the moment? What is the, you know, I just turned the light on and the first time, geez, look at the glow in this room, like, oh my, like that's what you sell. You don't sell the, this stuff, the box and the nice little greenness. It's like, those are all the reasons that they justify their purchase and they go, oh yeah, but the thing they want is that ambient glow, that softening, look at their wife for the first, look at the husband, look at the kids for the first time, honey, come and look at what just happened. You don't remember the room, how, like, it's like how do we take that into the ad, you know the main? And so the more we create that as far as like outcomes and the more we sell that and the more we attach guarantees and the more we attach all of these like outcome driven kind of promises to that level of like, this is where I want to get to, this is the end game. The more your marketing exists in not a kind of a commodity based market, but a one of one. Because like, how are you supposed to compare that emotional state that I get to when I come home, I bring my kids into the room that I've just set this incredible ambient lighting up and all the family are just like, can we just, let's just hang out in here, come watch movies in here. I'm going to bring my mattress in here this evening. I'm going to sleep. This room has been like how do we take that and how do you, how are you supposed to compete with that? Everyone else is out there selling potions and widgets and gizmos and you're selling this transformation. And so I think this gives you that ability to really market into that and it's been very, very helpful for for the marketing that I've been doing. And I think for both of you guys and the products that you're selling, you're not selling the widget or the pill or the potion. You're selling that and the clearer we can attach the outcome to their current circumstance and see that gap being created, the easier your marketing becomes, like it's world class, it's not in day. Yeah, that gets me really excited because that's the sort of thinking that I'm really trying to fold into my ads because initially my ads were very offer focused and then I kind of transitioned. And I still have offers but I've tried to choose them more into lifestyle like this is, one of my ankles is about, like these are the lights that finish your renovation. Your renovations complete now because you have these lights. That's kind of the, like I guess that's track that I'm heading down towards. It's like you buy these lights, yeah cool but you know what does it do? It brings the greenery indoors, it makes these really warm. So yeah, that's really exciting because it affirms that I'm on the right track in terms of thinking. So I think just further to that and this is for both you as well. So the outcome that you create, like I just said there, that wants to be the biggest, strongest, like, clearest version of what they want because essentially people will have the end goal, right? And then they will have like a milestone, right? That'll be like, for example, maybe they're like in the setup process of the lights. Like that might be the first thing they go, oh wow, I can see it coming together, right? Or harsh, for example. So the first time they put the lip balm on, the milestone before that might be like they've got the package that looks amazing. It's like, I'm excited. Can I stand? And then on the flip side, there's all of the negatives, there's all of the objections, there's all the fears they have that are the complete reverse. Right? And so your marketing wants to do two things at the same time. It wants to amplify the hell out of this and then make justification, protection, downplay and minimize all of these things. And so an exercise that both of you guys want to definitely do is like, okay, so what is the biggest end game that my customers want? Buying my product? Why, as an emotional transformative type outcome, they want this, okay? And then second to that, what else they want? What would be a little bit of a luster thing? Well, as an example, Joyce, they set it up and they start putting it in the room. And visually, when it's even still light outside, they go, wow, you know what, this is actually a compliments the room. It makes my home look more sophisticated, but then it gets dark and they turn it on and that's the end state. Oh my goodness. So you get to create this journey for people where it's like the first win, I love it. The second win, oh my god, it gets better. But then we need to go the other way and be like, what are the biggest fears they have around the product? Well, they're going to get it. It's going to be a cheap box. It's going to be a broken light. It's going to be cracked glass. The plug's not going to fit in the wall. What happens if I need a return to sender? It's not going to work. They're not going to communicate. These are all the fears they have. And then you take that to the end state and we go, what's the biggest, biggest, biggest fear? I pay my money and I get nothing. Right. That's their biggest fear. And so we need to work backwards through your minimizing messaging. And this is where you might have your guarantees placed around using the language in those fears of the prospect or the prospective customer to minimize those or reduce them. So we want to amplify the maximizers and then reduce the minimizers. And this is where you might have any like for Joyce Perf example, any form of like digitized PDF guide or any form of like a step by step process installation guide to help you overcome this or a quick quiz to help you to understand exactly which plug system or whatever you can do to minimize those fears so they go, oh, they're very thought about it. All they've already thought of the fact that I'm afraid of, I don't know, that it coming with broken glass or all those protection mechanisms that's going to reinforce people seeing what you want. It's narrative control. What we're trying to do is we want them to see the thing that they need and then see less of this thing during that marketing experience. Yeah. Yeah. That's very exciting. I can't wait to make changes to my website, Amen. Gradually, slowly one by one. So I go and hack it all. Yeah, I made it. Yeah, and I would say something here is that what actually Sasha was kind of positioning here, you can literally see it with the suit. So if you look at the suit, the fashion in the library, we have it. If you don't love it, keep it. We'll refund you anyway. That's one of our statics that's actually producing the highest outcome right now. And if I was to give you guys another thing that I've seen Sasha actually implement with the suit, is that offer with one wipe guarantee that dream outcome was already positioned. That's when we saw that with additionally, obviously, like the work of NARA worked on the offer as well that changed the business direction or trajectory. But I would say those two things, we refund you anyway. You're going to love it either way. And that one wipe guarantee. So dream outcome versus guarantee, so removing the fear and then giving them that dream outcome. So we've seen this where it forms super well. And so the reason that the so the reason for example one wipe guarantee works even better than like 90 days love it or leave it guarantee Because one sounds like everything else, right? And it's like generic commoditized people. Oh, yeah, okay Well, I don't really know what that means every time I've had that before people just argue with me via email And I don't even get my money back. You understand versus the alternative is like one wipe So that means in one wipe I'm gonna have all my makeup removes and if I don't I get to keep the cloth and get a refund You're in a different category. You know, Zen like it's it's novelty and it cuts through that marketing message and people go Oh, okay Wow like I get the outcome that I want because they're not buying the cloth to have the cloth They're buying the cloth to have the outcome the cloth gives in the same way that you guys all sell the outcome your product achieves and not the product And so the better and the more consistently you can move from product pushes to outcome sellers the more product your sellers and extension Like it is just definitive one-to-one absolute if you continue moving into this transformation based selling You just print you'll absolutely print in your business will continue to get more and more profitable But again, similar to what we were talking about with Joyce here at the start and then also harsh very similarly This hinges upon The outcome being organized specifically for maybe one avatar a very clear person because it's very difficult to go Okay, what's the outcome for 30 year olds and 40 year olds and 60 year olds and 20 year olds? Holy shit, they all want different things Don't understand and so the clarity on that kind of a specific avatar and then the outcome that avatar the world that Avatar's living in enables you to get very clear with this is how we're going to construct this wildly strong outcome driven Guarantee we're going to create all these minimizers in terms of how we're going to position things and we're going to maximize it to make it even easier for them And the other thing I think that one white guarantee did very well people care a lot these days about speed They want things quickly and they want the outcome fast So let me say one white guarantee It really amplifies in their mind the fact that this is a quick outcome right so equally for you guys if we can amplify more speed by way of like Crack lips for example if that's your biggest delta harsh the people of feeling I get cracked lips How quickly can I wake up and feel the experience of Supple amazing incredibly roshier slips. I don't even know if that language makes sense But you get what I'm saying like how could I have that happen in you know 14 hours versus three days two days whatever it might be however long that takes in the same way joints for you This setup process that how long is it going to take those are the fears that your people have when they're buying is How is this going to fit what the assembly is it going to come broken is it going to be damaged? I only know about this is this a cheap variation. I don't really know if I can like that That's what's going on their mind and so we need to combat that with messaging structures and overcomes so that they look more at the Outcome they want unless that all of the fees they have when they're buying right and I'll give you like some input here because I'm very very familiar with the niche of space that you're in choice So probably you can tackle upgrade your home. Those are things you can look at team I'd love to just get a couple of quick takeaways What has been the most significant what have you enjoyed about this conversation before we wrap up here this morning? I'm harsh. What about yourself? Obviously the strategies like the nothing you said like test an ABU and after like three four days just Put the winners into the see test in ABU and after three four days just put the winners into the CBU and just scale them up That's that's I think I can really work on another thing that transformation and the right now I'm just doing like day one versus day 14 But we can also do like day one versus day 10 or maybe day 11 We can obviously test that and I think I think yeah It's gonna be better. So so real quick visit and this this this milestone transformation was a client and he had a Business that had sold supplements and supplements is the ultimate version of this because why do people buy supplements Not because of the tub the tablets the taste they buy it because of hope Right the day that I take it today and then I'm gonna feel more energy Oh, I'm gonna feel more that's what they want to feel in a sense and so your product is like okay 14 days is way too long Right in the same way with him for example He had a supplement product for dogs and so it was like after it was like 90 days There was some outcome that would happen and I was like what else happened sooner And he's like well look in the 72 hours when they do poops the owners always talk about the fact that the It's insane the dog like it looks so help the coat looks better. I'm like we need that now I can't wait 90 days to try and sell something. Oh, yeah, just keep using the product there John and in 90 days time you should start to see some results. It's like what is that gonna do? We need to see something now so the owner buys and they go oh my goodness His fur is so shiny or his poop looks so much more. I don't know solid whatever the thing looks like But it's like if that's the pain point we need to shorten the cycle to increase the speed and that will help you tremendously because Who wants to use a product for 14 days and then be like? Oh, I missed a day looks like I'm gonna have to restart again. Oh well, who knows? You understand it's we want to really compress that as much as possible Joyce How about yourself what have you taken out of the session so far? The biggest thing that resonated was that CPO frameworks So just really trying to focus on Communicating that like thinking that the circumstance in which my My avatar is in and then really trying to fold that into the messaging of the ads and websites Yeah, there's a lot of room for me to move in there. So yeah excited to So how many I always say this and how many you might you might as well take this way because you always talk about this being the 10x multiple The come there these conversations all that this be your part of the conversation Yeah, I would say that this is actually our promise in the podcast every time someone joins in we actually literally say Within like like this is my view and it's if you implement everything that we recommend your business should 10x within the next three months if you implement everything if you're not implementing then obviously we can't really promise But if you do everything you do the things that we talked about you work in your business every single day You don't get distracted we talked about that if you do these things your business will thrive and we've seen many cases where We had a podcast where person was doing 30 40k and by December Paul by the way he actually got to 160 K So that level like just within probably like 60 days or 30 days after this and the goal was for him to actually go from that 20k to that 100k level and he got to 160 K so I would say you could do this and by the way another thing we have The fails like the owner like the Chris and Shelley came to the call and they had this business that they launched implement the things They got to 100k out of showing within as they probably 45 days. This is within your launch So we've seen many times People get insane results. So you guys should not be the exception rate And I think you guys are proven it the work you've done has been testament to obviously Hammond and Hammond's exceptional with his consistency And how he shows up and how he just continues to drive more and more and more value and continues to compete to provide the latest edge as far as helping you guys to get the best results and that's what we're obsessed with I know that you will continue to see it in terms of how we continue to get better and better and better at the work we're doing So that we can continue guiding you to multiple millions of dollars per month because that's the goal You know and and your your business really starts to similar to what I haven't mentioned earlier It's like the level that you unlock as a business owner and an operator at above 100k a month changes disproportionately Mainly because of the lifestyle impacts mainly because of the impact to your personal income and what enables you to do for your business But then also for yourself personally right so we're really pumped to get you up to that level So you can start to really experience all the great things that you put all this sacrifice work and energy into the business for all right Thank you appreciate both of you tremendously keep crushing it and I look forward to seeing you next weekend Joyce house. I don't think I'm always in you there unless you make the long haul flight, but maybe the next one Thanks Emma. Thank you