LIVE PODCAST: What Actually Makes Us Happier?

Those who don't know me, but I do see a lot of familiar faces, which is so exciting. I'm Stella Stuffinopolis. I'm the founder and host of Everyday in Dorfins, which is a podcast that explores, how do we define happiness and how do we infuse more joy into our daily living? Before we start tonight, I just wanna give a little shout out to our sponsors, Kora is gainful and happy being. As you exit the space, we have some goodies on the back. So make sure you don't leave without grabbing a bag. Thank you again to our sponsors for helping make this event possible. And before we dive into the evening, here's what you can expect. We're gonna start with a very special live interview. We're live streaming right now, which will also be put on the podcast, which is super exciting. And after we're gonna end with a Q&A, and then there's an opportunity for all of you to actually be integrated into the show. So stay tuned for that exciting way that we're gonna end this evening. With that, I am so excited to welcome Alexa McHale onto the stage with me who will be helping to moderate our interview. - So I'm so excited to do this special edition of Everyday Endorphins with You because it's a long time coming and we really are celebrating over five years of you doing this podcast, which is incredibly exciting. So major congratulations, because this is the 181st, right? - Yeah. - The soad. So really exciting. And also Stella is one of my good friends. My first month moving here five years ago, we met in the wild, - Yeah. - SpongeBob. - SpongeBob. - Yeah. - You could say. And you know, shared a lot of our interests in health and wellness. I'm Alexa McHale. I'm a health and wellness journalist and storyteller. And I love particularly these live events and bringing people together to talk a lot about these really important topics. So so excited to do this with you. Finally. - Yeah, we've been talking about this for a long time. So it's really great to see this come to fruition. And I remember when I started doing live events a few years ago, the intention was bringing Endorphins off the mic in real life. And to get to see community be brought together is just so gratifying. And to have you a part of this is really amazing. So thank you for doing this. - Okay, so let's dive in. And this is gonna be back on you. So it's a little bit different than we've been. - I know. Always doing it in reviewing. So get ready. (laughing) - And so when you think about five years ago when you first started the podcast and you did your first episode, what was the goal then and has that changed today? - So I, on the way here in the Uber, I listened to the first episode and I was like, oh my God, October 2020. I don't wanna listen to my voice from six years ago. And all I talked about was how I was on a rowing team and the content that I put on my everyday Endorphins Instagram at that time, which was over 10 years ago, was about like fitness and food and it just felt very one dimensional. And it wasn't really capturing the nuances of what it means to be healthy. So the intention at the time was, let me start a podcast and use storytelling as a medium to better understand like what is health and wellness actually look like. And now almost six years later, it's really become the blueprint for how I want to live my life, which is like a very gratifying thing to think about. - I love that. I wanna touch on something that I think about when I see your content and that I feel like has been a through line throughout a lot of your posts and a lot of the episodes, which is, what we're actually getting wrong about happiness, especially recently, to quote you and some of your work you posted a video about the traits of the happiest people. You said they have a high tolerance for discomfort and they know how to tolerate and work through negative emotions. So if the happiest people aren't avoiding discomfort, but rather they're really embracing it, building tolerance for it, what would you say that you've learned over the last five years that we're fundamentally misunderstanding about what happiness requires? - I think that in order to feel that sense of joy, we need to get really comfortable with facing things that don't feel great and instead of running away from those feelings, becoming curious. And so kind of a part of that post, 'cause I know which one you're referencing. When I've thought more about it, I've thought a lot about how do we take a curious approach towards the thoughts that come into our brains rather than having a sense of judgment, but rather becoming curious around how do these emotions come up for us? And I think when we put so much pressure on ourselves to be happy, the reverse happens, right? We focus too much on this need to be happy all the time. And so the byproduct of that is that we don't actually savor the present moment. And so when I come back to this post around really tolerating discomfort, it's around like navigating ambiguity and being okay with the unknown. This is something that was consistently told to me in my interviews. And at the time when I started this at like 21, 22, I was like, yeah, trust the process, what does that mean? But genuinely now over the past four, five, six years, through my own lived experience, I've had some experiences where I've struggled and I've felt a lot of unhappy emotion. And I've had this inner tension of all, if I have a brand about happiness, but I don't feel happy, like that doesn't feel aligned. And what I've realized is to get back to that sense of joy, it's about really being okay with not feeling great all the time, 'cause that's human and that's life. - How has you leaned into that? Like how do you induce discomfort and not be hard on yourself then? - Well, I think a lot of it comes back to like compassion and being compassionate with yourself instead of being hard on yourself for feeling certain things or any thoughts that might come into your head. But I also think that in order to adopt this mindset, you also just have to recognize that everything is transient. Like the emotion you feel in one moment doesn't stay forever, happiness included. And so that's why we really need to be rooted in presence to allow for these things to kind of up in flow in life. - Yeah. And the name everyday in Dorfins, you started it as an Instagram account a while back and then it obviously became the name of the podcast. - How is your understanding of what Endorphins actually do changed also over the course of the podcast? - Yeah, so I think most people when they think of Endorphins, think of Reese Witherspoon and Legally Blonde talking about how Endorphins exercise brings you Endorphins and Endorphins make you happy and happy people don't kill their husbands. I think is how she ended it. Which is I think true. Well, I don't know actually, but that entry point into Endorphins at least for me and of course exercise does bring you Endorphins. I ask every person on the show what brings you Endorphins and the answers can vary from exercise my cup of coffee to spending time with my loved ones. Like there's just a million reasons and answers to this. And I think when I first started the podcast, the reason I would ask that is to just get a laundry list of things that can make you happy, that can make you feel immediately joyful. But if you actually understand what Endorphins are as compared to serotonin, dopamine, all the other hormones in our bodies, Endorphins are actually the pain reducers. Serotonin dopamine, like that makes you feel happy in the moment and that immediate gratification. But the more we chase that, we're not setting ourselves up for delayed gratification for a sustainable view on happiness. So when we think about Endorphins as pain reducers, I think it's a beautiful metaphor actually because what I've come to realize is that life is always gonna have a challenge. It's always gonna have a curve ball. You can't be happy all the time. So now my perspective is focus on these Endorphins to ground yourself, to anchor yourself, so that despite whatever's going on around you, you can feel at home with yourself. - Yeah, I mean, is there a time when, you know, in your own life you're struggling and you're like, oh, I should listen to my own advice? Like is there a time when can you, I guess share that and maybe where you've struggled to take your own advice? - Yeah, so this is funny because we're doing this event in May of 2026 and a few days ago I got an email in my inbox that was a letter that I wrote to myself in May of 2023 that was meant to be delivered three years in the future. So I'm like reading this email and like, oh my God, this is so cringey because I was so focused on trying to have the answers for where my life was gonna be in three years time. As if now I have all the answers and I obviously don't because what I've realized is like you never do and at that time I decided to take a break from the podcast 'cause I had all this momentum. I remember I was doing episodes weekly, I was doing events I had partnered with Aloe, that for me was like a huge opportunity to have Aloe with everyday endorphins on the same like Instagram photo, right? And after that event I remember feeling like okay, now what, like that's not good enough. And I really got into this kind of mental warfare around realizing that I lost my why. 'Cause I really started this with the joy of storytelling and wanting to do something during COVID. And then I kept it up and I realized I really loved it. But as time progressed and then also looking at how the content landscape has shifted, how podcasting has changed, the creator world, I got really sucked into this idea of like needing to be famous and needing other people to validate my worth and my voice. And it required me to take a step back and to reevaluate like why am I doing this in the first place. And that was difficult and it's hard to take your own advice. But I now having re-entered with the show, changing the cadence of how I interview and post. I've seen myself integrate the show into my life in ways I never thought I could have imagined when I first started. - Yeah, I mean you touched on this idea of, you know, is what I'm doing worth it. It's something that we've talked about. about, you know, personally as as friends and in the work that we do putting yourself out there and and struggling to sometimes have the confidence that what I'm doing is worth it that this is serving some larger purpose. I mean you talked about kind of getting over that hump a bit but you also talked about, you know, wanting to be famous. What is your relationship to that now if I can ask? And how do you think about that as you're growing this platform which is very forward facing, you know, you talked also about like content creation? Yeah, that's a great question. I think that virality is kind of what I was chasing for some time and what I've realized is virality is not sustainable and the way I now try to approach what I'm doing is from a place of joy and something that lights me up and feels like regenerative with my energy and to be so focused on fame is to be focused on external validation like these extrinsic motivations that I didn't realize at the time was really driving a lot of what I was doing and was there a shift? When I took a break. Yeah. And you know, I had had some experiences at that time where I met some people who really hyped me up and like saw the value of what I was doing and made it very well known to their friends and their community that what they saw was admirable and it was a moment for me to kind of think, oh, why does that hit so hard for me? It was really a mirror to realize, oh, I didn't think that about myself. And so fame, all these things that could be gone in an instant virality, all these things, that's not self-sustaining and that's when I realized I had to find the sources of intrinsic motivation and it's interesting because like this has become research but it kind of stems from research and what I mean by that is- I never heard that I love it. I heard it out like a talk so I can't take credit for that but like it is kind of true and I've used myself as a case study because I've learned a lot about what actually makes us happier and I was realizing you know someone who was the face of this brand about happiness. I was not like that happy for some time. Yeah. I mean I think it's really interesting when you talk about this personally because I think when you look at yourself or anyone I'm sure in this room can relate to you know you see a very confident person who can put themselves online who can make these videos and it's it's really helpful I think to hear about sometimes what we don't always see which is that it's also really hard to constantly feel that level of confidence to feel that what you do is worth it. I want to talk also about social media because I think that especially in this world of health and wellness and self-help whatever you call it there is a lot of people that are putting their opinions out there and making videos. You've talked about this recently you had a recent episode about parasocial relationships and you've said yourself that you don't want to live life through your phone. At the same time you've said that a lot of the ways you think about new ideas around happiness you kind of get clarity through filming them and through posting them and then getting the response from your community. How do you balance then the intrinsic motivation of building this community with also just the pressure to keep posting knowing that you don't want to live your life on your phone? I will say I feel really grateful that building this is not I'm not doing it as a full-time pursuit. So I can take the guilt off of myself to have to be chronically online because I know at the end of the day I have a full-time job that I'm very grateful to have that like funds my lifestyle and the things that I am able to do and to kind of use my free time in this creative endeavor. But you know to this point around showing up online and even that episode with parasocial relationships which the guests had a really fascinating take on this. I think that the way I've always tried to approach this is that if someone were to see my content they would feel like they met me in person. Like there would be no difference between the IRL version of Stella and the digital version. But I think what a lot of people miss out on and why maybe some people might look at my profile and say oh she's so confident she's done all these things. I think it comes from the fact that we forget that there's always like that's only half the story what you see online. And I would always want to show up on social media in a way that feels true to who I am because I would want people to feel like they know me. But I think people have to like understand that of course they don't know me unless they actually know who I am. And that's a whole different conversation perhaps. But I think for me even when I started the Instagram when I was in high school like I just wanted to put my thoughts out there. I always love to write. I gained clarity in what I was thinking through writing and through expression. So for me that that's what drives the content creation. Not yeah not because I want it to achieve some sort of virality or um I don't know it's it's always been about wanting to express myself. Yeah and sometimes when you have gotten potential pushback or even criticism how of you dealt with that. Well I have a lot of in cells on my tick talk and I kind of love it. I'm not going to lie um because it helps with the virality actually um you're like keep them coming. Yeah yeah I so I think it comes back to not believing everything that you see. And we're very quick to believe our thoughts like we prescribe truth to certain thoughts that come into our mind. And I really think you have to move away from like limiting beliefs that hold you back to liberating ones that will propel you forward. And so with the comments and I try to not really think about it because I'm like well any press is good press. I guess like from the tick talk side it helps with the engagement and at least spreading my message around. But I think if you're really rooted in knowing what you want to say and have conviction behind what you say why does someone else's opinion matter? And I think this extends beyond just having a podcast or a brand. It's like to move forward in life to be confident you have to have conviction in what you're going to say and do. I think it also probably goes back to the fact that you now have more intrinsic motivation to why you're doing what you're doing. So you're not necessarily looking for everyone in that comments on your post to say how great of an idea it is even though you can believe that yourself. I want to pivot a little bit to kind of back to what you've learned about happiness and talk a little bit about our current culture. I won't bore anyone with the grim statistics but I think we've all seen that we are in this loneliness epidemic. I recently did an event on this and thinking about the fact that it's been called this anti-social century by the Atlantic and Jonathan Hate wrote this anxious generation book. There's a lot around the fact that we are struggling with social connection. Scott Galloway you've talked about this a lot. He talks about how men are all lonely. They're not going up into going up to women in bars anymore. You asked him a question about this specifically at an event and I think we can feel like okay well you know then what. So I'm curious instead of talking about the fact that this is the case. I'm curious from all of the people that you've talked to and all the experts that you've interviewed. Is there an potentially underappreciated solution or lever that you want to touch on that can really solve a lot of this quote-unquote disconnection crisis that we're in? I do think our generation is a little screwed because like COVID. No there's a positive spin to this I promise. COVID really I think was detrimental obviously to us being outside and getting to socialize and that really dampens you at any point in your development. I think so I saw this on Instagram recently. This concept of friction maxing and it's this idea of inviting more discomfort into your life and it can be really scary to go up to someone at an event and just say hi I'm Stella. Like it's really hard to put yourself out there but it's because we're going to our own heads and so I think one step people can take to feeling more connected with others. First is to lean on your community and to lean on your close friends and to like be thoughtful and considerate of other people but I also think it's about inviting some discomfort into your life. Like I made a tick talk about how in the fall I sat at a bar by myself on a Friday and I ordered a drink and I read a book and then I just started chatting with people like it was stressful at first to go by myself like in New York City on a Friday everyone is out and then I'm sitting there and I'm thinking to myself do I friends like why am I here alone but it was like actually a really beautiful experience because I had time by myself and I felt empowered to just talk to strangers. I think that's another thing we need to bring back is just talking to strangers without aggressively filming for content but just genuinely to like be curious about other people. No I love that. I also have thought a lot about the friction maxing concept. I mean it's even you know as simple as like it's also induced discomfort which is potentially taking your headphones off on a walk looking around maybe smiling at someone like who knows where that can go it's taking a different route to work. I think that everything feels very seamless for us now and so I think the idea of bringing that in more. I'm into your point also of going to dinner alone my friends know this but I I'm between jobs right now and whenever I'm alone during the day I won't get keep it because I'm obsessed with it but Anton's in the West Village has this $14 lunch pasta special and I'll go there alone and read a book at the bar and it's really nice and sometimes you'll you'll meet a new friend or someone will ask you what you're reading and I don't know I think there's something really nice about just kind of ripping the band it off going alone and yeah just kind of trying to to do something for yourself and I think also talking to strangers introducing yourself I mean it's a testament to everyone showing up tonight right because I think there's a lot we could be doing and we could be alone and we could be in the comfort of our own apartments but it means a lot I think when we show up in person and it's also the power of these type of events you've talked a lot also So about how a lot of us then, therefore, want to be a part of a village, but we don't want to be a villager, like we don't want to show up for people. I mean, for someone that might be nervous about taking that first bit of connection, what advice do you have for how they can maybe show up more authentically? - I think a lot of the times are in our own heads about these types of things. And we stop ourselves from taking action 'cause we're afraid of, is it too late to reach out to this person, or is it, what is this other person gonna think about me? And that is a barrier to acting. And so I think the first step is to just honestly take a step and it doesn't have to be monumental or anything crazy, whatever it feels comfortable for you. And so there's also kind of a whole discourse around how the mental health movement has gone too far into saying, well, I need to prioritize my mental health so I won't show up for people. And there's a lot of content about that. I don't know how I necessarily feel about that, but I do think that coming back to the friction maxing thing, if a good friend of yours, I'm gonna genuinely care about, is doing something or you know it would be really important to them for you to show up in a certain way. I think we have an obligation to the people that we care about to be present for them. - Yeah. - And to show up. - No, I completely agree. I mean, I talk about this with my best friend all the time, which is when you think about someone, tell them, that's a very easy way to show up. When something reminds you of someone, tell them, if you're at the restaurant that reminds you of them, right, I think it's an easy way to show up. And I do think there's a point of sort of the self-care economy however you want to describe it, but that goes into a direction where, protect your peace, it's okay to say no and bail. And there's obviously times when that is true, but there's oftentimes where we need to push ourselves into that sense of discomfort. I also wanted to bring up, you know, not just like AI to bring up AI, but I was at this event on Monday with Esther Porelle, who for those of you who don't know, is a pretty renowned psychotherapist. She talks a lot about connection, romance, sex, all the things. And she said something that caught my attention and I want your take on it. She said, you know, in terms of the fact that we're always online, we're constantly being surveyed. And how does that really affect our relationships? She said, we want people to be as predictable as technology. As in, we have very high expectations for people that we're meeting. That becomes making a new friend or dating. We want them to be as predictable, right, as a cloud. So, you know, what do you think about that? Or what does that bring up for you? Well, I think it speaks to the fact that we just want to have control in life and that can manifest in so many ways that can end up hurting ourselves. And there's so many ways we could take this from like the friendship and platonic connection to dating and more romantic connections. But when we come in with expectations, we kind of set ourselves up for failure, which is why I always try to come back to the importance of keeping an open mind. And again, the curiosity point, not only curiosity for oneself, but becoming curious about other people. I think that's also like a really easy way to connect with others. So, it makes sense from like a human psychology perspective as to why we're craving this certainty with others and who we meet. But I think it's actually really limiting our ability to connect and allow ourselves to be surprised. You know, in the dating world, for example, you may think that you need your partner to check off all of these boxes. And in the process of dating and getting to meet people and connect with others, you can understand, you know, what excites you and allow yourself to be surprised by the ways in which you can connect with others. 'Cause I really believe that, you know, people are a mirror to ourselves. So it's more kind of self-inquiry. Yeah, yeah. It's funny. Esther Pearl also said during that event that kind of put the checklist out the window sometimes. We're just going and taking off the boxes in our heads, especially when it comes to dating. And yeah, and that we can do a better job of just being curious and leaning into connection. I'm curious if there is ever a point when you were interviewing someone in your over 180 now episodes that you fundamentally disagreed. That's a good question. Sorry, I forgot a spot. I'm so glad to have you here for this one. This is a great question. Sorry. Oops. This is why you're a great interviewer. I think that, well, so-- Or shifted your perspective, you know, and something maybe. Or made you-- Actually, this actually was my most recent episode. It was a lot about parasocial relationships. And I had given the perspective that I want to have this same experience as close as you can make it between online versus IRL meeting me or just the way I present myself. And she pushed back and she said, the guest said, you know, that's the last thing I would want. I don't want people to look at my TikToks and see this dumbed down version of me and think that that's all there is. She said that the way she creates content is kind of building a persona and a character, which I understand. But I also think that the way we can leverage social media for good and actually create connection rather than isolate us is to show up as ourselves. Like, I don't think it's a matter of having this online persona and creating a character of yourself. Like, if you want to bring forward authenticity, there cannot be a difference between the way you interact in person versus the way you show up online. And I think even in in-person situations, something that kind of bothers me, I've noticed, is when some people can kind of personality shift depending on the group that they're in. And that's very easy to do. And I think we've all fallen victim to this. But I try to hold myself to the standard of showing up as Stella in every situation that I'm in because I think that that creates trust with the people that you're around. It's like you're getting the same experience every time. Yeah, no, I think that's absolutely true. And it's like you're showing up right now the way that you would when we were at dinner, you know, this week and it doesn't matter that people are in the room. So I can, you know, attest to that. For people who also don't know, I think you mentioned this throughout the beginning, you know, you have a full-time job. Stella is in the corporate world and you also are doing this on the side. For anyone that, you know, wants to build something creative on the side, doesn't know where to start. Or frankly, how to have the motivation because you're putting all of this on yourself. You're doing all of this under deadlines that you're giving to yourself. How does someone start? What advice do you have for them? I think it's about focusing on the things that energize you rather than being focused on the end product that you want to create. And this also resonates with what I've learned about happiness because the more we focus on the outcome, we lose sight of the process and the joy to be experienced in the creative act of doing, of producing. And so if someone has a corporate job and they want to have a side hobby or start something on the side, I would challenge them to find ways to create joy in their leisure time. And Arthur Brooks writes about this. I just read his most recent book called The Meaning of Your Life. I'm pretty sure that's the title, but it's about meaning and he had a whole chapter about how do we spend our leisure time. And so when I turn it back on to myself, what I would want to do in my free time is just talk to people. Might as well put a pot, like make it recorded. And so it doesn't feel like work. So I think if we follow the things we actually like to do in our free time and we create our leisure time as a sacred space to do those creative things, the final product will kind of reveal itself over time. And to balance the two, the mindset I've adopted now is how can I find a sense of integration between the corporate and creative, not be one or the other? And that to me has felt more meaningful. - Yeah, yeah. I do wanna open it up for questions soon. So just in case anyone's thinking of anything, I'll come back to that. I wanna talk about something about you as a person because you love to travel. And I feel like that's also informed a lot of your episodes and your take on happiness. You've written some substacks about this. You've obviously done content around it and you've done solo traveling. I would say recently, how has traveling and adventure just shifted the way you think about how you wanna be joyful in your day? - Well, I think you know that my word of the year for 2026 is adventure. And when this year started, I thought it would manifest in moving abroad and taking a sabbatical and doing all these things and traveling. And then I was like, do I have the funds for this? Like it just logistically a nightmare. Like why would I put all of the stuff's fun? - It does, and maybe it's still in the future, I don't know. But I've thought a lot of how this idea of travel for exploration versus escapism. And when you go somewhere from a place of escapism, you're running away from your problems and a quote that I love, which is what the substack is that I wrote is wherever you go there you are. And I think we're very quick to run away from things that don't feel good and this comes back to like, how do we tolerate and work through the discomfort in life? We're very quick to kind of flee those experiences or those feelings. And while there can be benefit to that, I do think that, you know, the intentionality that we take when traveling is very important. And so to me, my view on adventure and travel now wants to come more from a place of exploration and inviting new perspectives into my life, rather than I just need to go to get away from things. I do think a lot about this, and I had done a joint substack in more depth around this concept with a friend who has an amazing blog about travel and culture and you can check that out for more of my thinking. But I really do think this idea of wherever you go there you are has resonated with me when I think about what can travel bring. Yeah. As you think about where the podcast and everyday endorphins will go in the next five years from now, what do you see and is there a guest that would be the dream person to interview? So I started doing events like a long time ago, actually someone in the audience has been to like one of the first ones, which is insane. But wasn't the first one. But it was a dance class at 305 Fitness. We were just like shaking it and then we sat on the ground and shouted, which was fun. And I think there's just something really special about bringing people together. Like if we did this alone, we would have an amazing time because we're just having fun right now. But to give this experience to a group of people, I think is really invaluable and it energizes me. So what I'd like to do moving forward is continue to bring people together to actually boost their endorphins and create, you know, like help people understand that everyday endorphins is more of a philosophy, I think, than just tune into the podcast. And a dream guest would be Arthur Brooks because he's got all the research to back up what I say, just stream of consciousness. I love that if you're if you're to do another event that's an activity like a dance class, what would you do to bring people together? I would go to SAS class, which is like a dance studio that I absolutely love. It's great. And there's actually I would not do an event there because I don't know if everyone wants to do that type of dancing. Look at the videos. They're fun. Yeah, they're definitely really fun. The types of events that I really do enjoy are the ones that are centered around interviewing and showcasing people's creative hobbies and passions and how they spark their joy in life. Before we wrap up and go to audience questions, given that, you know, oftentimes you're not the one being interviewed. I want to give you the chance to share, you know, if there's something that you, you know, don't talk enough about that you wish you were asked or that you might feel like someone might misunderstand about it. And what you've built, what would it be? I do feel like sometimes there is this pressure to be happy being the face of this brand. And I would hope that people also understand that he that's just not how like the human experience works and is someone who is trying to show up as consistently as I can on social media specifically to communicate these messages. It doesn't always mean that like I feel that way. And I also know what is sustainable. Exactly. And I would also hope that people, I don't necessarily know if there's any sort of like misunderstandings. Again, I would hope that my content feels very reflective of who I am. But I would just hope that people feel like they are taking something away that's actionable into their life. And that they see me more as a peer than someone telling them what to do or that I have a bunch of words of wisdom because I'm still very much learning. And I may change my mind about a few things in a few years and I don't know. But I would hope that people can see themselves in me because I don't have all the answers and not everyone, no one does and that's okay. Like we're all kind of, I want everyone to be collectively figuring things out together through this vehicle. So I have one more quick question. Do you think that five years ago you believed that you were always supposed to be happy? Was that what you were trying to chase? Yes, yes. And you really learned through also probably pausing it and restarting it that you can also be a host of a happiness podcast and be unhappy. Yes, I thought that once the podcast did XYZ then I would be happy then I would be successful then I would whatever fill in the blank. And then I have conversations with my friends and peers at work around well when I get this promotion then I'll feel content when I get this partner then I'll and that is literally what kills the ability to feel joy. It's because we think that happiness comes from the achievement of something and that's not where it comes from. Yeah, we actually both went to this event for the podcast of Hidden Brain and one of the big messages is great NPR podcast for those of you who don't know and a big message was you know we're constantly focused on that. We're constantly focused on what we can't control but we actually can control a lot more than we think we can with little steps and I think you're a great example of what you've been able to build and control what you can will also acknowledging right that you are not a perfectly happy person because that's unrealistic and that's not what we should be striving for. I do think there's a lot of uncertainty right I think to your point of also you know I think for me it was like when I finish the exam I'll be happy when I get the internship when I get the job and then in the journalism industry have been laid off I you can write the greatest story and you can still not succeed quote unquote to people's definition of that so I think then we have to find in ourselves what can still make us happy when the corporate world lets us down when a relationship lets us down right and how do we really come back to that. So I want to end with asking you a question that you always ask your guests which is today Stella in this moment what is bringing you and orphans okay I have three answers I have three short answers the first I always feel a sense of endorphins when I teach yoga a lot of my close friends know this even if I show up and I'm like it's a job I got to do this the minute the class is over. I'm like wow people are leaving feeling good like they feel relaxed their nervous system is settled we need to settle our nervous systems so teaching yoga for me secondly just being here today and getting to be in a room with everyone here is so special and and really like it's a high that I feel and the third thing that has been bringing me endorphins over the past few months is so I have like a filtered water like system and I apart. It's a very sweet comment and I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to get the water to fill all the way up it's really not that hard I just couldn't figure it out and I have a wonderful new roommate that is joined my apartment and has made the home a very special place she's right here and she she knows how to do it like she figured out just immediately how to fill it all the way up and it's always filled to the brim it is always and I never have to be thirsty like it's always there very consider it very thoughtful and she she was going to gate keep it but she told me how to do it so she's so happy. She told me how to do it so she spread the love wow and that is that I come home and I look at the water. No it's so true after a long day. Yes, you win. No it's it's the little things I mean I also just want to say you know I'm interviewing you as also someone in the health and wellness space but you're a friend and the community you've been able to build over the last five plus years I was really a testament to your own grit and your ability to bring people together and to stay to your mission to you. I'm really looking forward to your mission to pivot when you have felt off about it. It's incredibly impressive and I hope that you also take the chance to celebrate this milestone with so many people in the room who believe in it believe in you and so I'm very honored to do this and just made your congratulations so thank you guys for for being here. Before we go to Q and I I just want to thank you because Alexa is incredible and has interviewed Melinda Gates among very other very excited and famous people and to be also part of that repertoire is just like I have no words so thank you for doing this. I'm so happy with that. Is there any other any questions in the room? Yes, I feel like you were first. I just want to say I absolutely love the conversation and thank you so much for bringing people together so I really have amazing time and I want to ask is most of your podcasts you're obviously interviewing the guests and now the tables are trying to knew and you're the interview me and I was going to ask which you have a preference for and like you know what I'm doing. What do you think you're doing? Great question. I like to ask people the questions but I also like to talk about myself because I feel like who doesn't like to also talk about themselves. I do like asking the questions because I think when I first started it was what I didn't realize at the time it was trying to seek answers from people who had things that I thought I wanted in life to degree. And now it's actually it's gratifying to be able to share my own perspective to realize that I do have a perspective but also to hopefully help other people like I get a lot of college kids that went to where I went to school or their currently students messaging me on LinkedIn asking for career advice and then I get on the phone with them and I'm like you have to relax because I wish I relax and it's it's like really fun to be on the other side to be like I have some wisdom I can kind of impart on you but I would say prefer doing the interview. Great question. Yeah. So you do this obviously you do it for yourself you love doing this you want to learn from other people but you have listener you have a community what's something and you make an impact so what's something that you heard from a listener that or something you learned or heard from them where you really like had the impact on their life or you know something they really took away from one of your pocket. Sometimes well so it's interesting because with a podcast like I can see kind of on the back end the number of people that are listening but it is not often that I get messages from random people about you know them liking an episode or that they've listened to a certain piece of content but when I do receive that it's really gratifying and I remember I had done an event with aloe like four years ago at this point and it was such a special event and a few years later I was sitting in the in Tribeca actually in this area having brunch with a friend And then this girl next to us turns to me and she's like, you're Stella, I've been listening to your podcast since I came to your event at Alla. She recognized my voice. And that was like a really weird pinch me moment to meet someone kind of in the middle of Manhattan who just, we happened to be sitting next to each other, but like this is a listener who has been following along weekly and knows my voice and really values what I have to share. And now she is a kid and she's like, my son, here's your voice and he's gonna know who you are. So it's like kind of those moments where it bridges the, you know, online versus R-I-R-L moments. A really special. - Yes. - So when corporate kicks up, how do you deal with the balance of all to maintaining your creativity? - Love that question, 'cause I feel like we come from a very similar corporate background. I think I have to remind myself too that at the end of the day, this is not sustaining me like as a full time endeavor. So I have to come back to what are the priorities and sometimes be okay with things needing to ebb and flow. And instead of having some sort of resentment that maybe work is taking away time from doing what I'm more passionate about where I can really express myself creatively, I try to see work corporate America as a learning environment where like what are the skills that I'm actually gaining that's gonna translate into being a better podcaster, event coordinator, fill in the blank. So I try to see that time is actually additive into my side projects. And I feel grateful that I can kind of curate the work that I wanna do so that I can place myself into projects and environments that will celebrate these skill sets and that are very complimentary to what I do outside of work. So I think it's about kind of job crafting and making your job not necessarily feel miserable, but complimentary also to the things that you care about. - Yeah, that was good. Kelly, you could see. - I'd say to yourself when you're having a really bad day or really a weak, about two weeks, when you're like, wow, I'm very depressed and anxious actually. What do you say to yourself now that you maybe didn't have said five years ago? - I call my parents. (laughing) Shout out to my fabulous parents that showed up tonight. I will call my, yeah. (clapping) I call my parents. I call some very close friends. I'm a big voice note person, so I will do that. I think again, it's like leaning on the people you care about. But I also remind myself, if I'm constantly talking about the impermanence of life and of emotion and of all these experiences, why am I creating my own suffering? Like if I feel anxious or depressed in a particular moment, I can allow myself to feel that, but I have to let it pass and know that it will. So I have to remind myself all of this is for nothing. I have to apply it into my life. So I come back to the sources of inspiration that I get through the conversation, through the community, to help me stay grounded and not get to wrapped up in my own spiral of thoughts. (laughing) - Can I ask how long you allow yourself to be in the anger and the rage? I mean, I personally go to boxing, but I don't know how it for other people. Do you give yourself a limit? - Not really. - I don't know, it's like you kind of have to like suck out the vibes, depending on the situation. Sometimes the anger will last longer, other times it will kind of dissipate, but I do believe that the more that we live in that frequency of anger, it's an resentment, it only hurts you. And so it's like you have to kind of allow yourself to go through the stages of grief and to reach a place of acceptance and compassion for oneself. So I don't want to like not let it happen 'cause it just builds, but there comes a point where I'm like, okay Stella, you've got to just be loving. Like you have to be a good friend of mine. Her whole motto in life is like this idea of being loving and always showing up with love. And I think that's really important. - Yeah, yeah, I love that too. Something I heard recently is also say, you know, you're feeling very frustrated by whether it's someone at work or a relationship, it's like forgiveness is not necessarily like you letting someone off the hook. It's actually for yourself. It's just that you are self-free to go be the best version of yourself. Okay, anyone else? Oh, one here that knew, yes. - I think that we've got something that we've been thinking about today. Just wanted to say that something you were hosting this event. I am new, like I just discovered you today actually. - Yeah. So if you have maybe your top three podcast episodes that you could maybe direct me to, I would love that. - Okay, let's talk more after, but what I, 'cause I think it depends on what you are personally really interested in. I've interviewed a variety of people from founders to athletes to creatives and creators, but I think something that could be an interesting place to start would be, I'd interviewed this runner, this is an Olympian, her name is Alexi Papis, and she talked a lot about short of memoir called Bravy and she's like super creative and like does film stuff. It's also a runner, it's just like a really interesting person, but she talked a lot about mental health, but also she made this metaphor around when you've like a physical injury, you go to the doctor and they help you, but what happens when you have a mental injury. And I thought that metaphor was really fascinating to think about how we take care of our minds. So I would say start with that one perhaps. - Thank you, that's great. - You know, you had one. - Yeah. - First of all, as close friends, I'm so proud of you, sitting down here and watching me, you're just amazing at my, just adore you. But my question has kind of given off of two questions ago, when you have those rough days, weeks, whatever that looks like, kind of more on a late hearted note, what's like the guilty pleasure, something that you know that will you get this carry out or watch this show. What's gonna give you that immediate door-finger rush? - Yeah, great question. Well, I love coffee, so I'll always step out and get a coffee, I feel like I do that every day. I love music is very powerful, so depending on the mood, it's either, like, it's for both Greek, like, like a Greek trap, I don't know, something like that. Or like I love my rap music, it depends on the vibe, but music is a very powerful way to transport yourself. And I love to dance, if you all follow me, you probably see the dance video as a big pose. - Yeah, a sass class, it's a lot of fun. - But really, like dancing, it's like a somatic expression, right, and somatic therapy in a way. And I think when you release that energy, it gets you out of your head and into your body. So I would say, like, some sort of movement, a good coffee, friends, and music. - Anyone else? - Yeah, yeah, everyone. - I'm sorry, I can't come back. - Yeah, first of all, I feel like congratulations and all of this is incredible. My question is, is there a correlation between geography and happiness? Like in a place like the UR, where it's just go, go, go all the time, extremely highly competitive, or all just, there's a corporate America I feel like defines who you are in this country, especially in the city, whereas in other parts of the world, recently I was a student of a friend, and it just seemed like life is more privatized. And life is slower, and people just genuinely seem more happy. So can you talk a little bit about geography, happiness? - Yeah, that's a really good, really good question. I had taken a trip to Copenhagen in September, and Denmark is one of the happiest places in the world, right? And I had made a video about that, and observing kind of the way people go about their days, like people typically are happier because it's a slower-paced lifestyle. There's benefits with healthcare education, all these things, right? That probably make for a happier society, but I actually had interviewed someone I met in Copenhagen who is from Norway, and he had a really interesting perspective around this because he is from Europe, and I grew up here. And he was like, well, just because we live in this country, doesn't mean that we're actually the happiest people. And I think as Americans, we tend to romanticize Europe because life is better there, and we're looking at it through the lens of like we're there on vacation, and it's a different thing to live somewhere. Again, it comes back to the wherever you go there, you are, your problems don't escape you. And I think, yeah, maybe a country, a city can be set up in a way so that there are more benefits that can make it easier to access that happiness, if that's what you want to call it. But I think we do glamorize, like the grass is always greener on the other side. I thought a lot about this when I considered moving abroad, and not to say that that wouldn't happen in the future, but I was chasing this external perspective. It's something I talk a lot about with my roommate, who is from Australia, is that I feel like I have somehow manifested bringing a new perspective that I was looking for into my own home, and I never actually had to leave. So I have a lot of thoughts we can talk after, but there probably is some sort of correlation, because there are studies out there that show certain places have happier cultures and societies than others. But I do think that if we're moving somewhere, thinking we're going to be happier in another place, we have to really get clear on what that could look like for us. Yeah. I mean, going off of that too, it's really interesting. I mean in the reporting that I've done too, I mean if you think about the world's happiness report, right? The US dropped out of the top 25, I believe for potentially they can 30 year in a row. Don't quote me on that and you know I think you can look at that and then say wow we must be really suffering and I think there's truth to where they how they do their study. You can look at you know the methodology behind different reports but I think to your point it's also you know a lot of these studies are averages so it's like you can be quote unquote like above average. I think I've talked about this at our event about loneliness which is that you know like there's a study about how you know you have the most friends until you're about age 26 and then they kind of start to plateau and so it's really about being intentional about continuously creating adult friendships and connections and so you can look at that and be like well I guess I'm screwed when I turn this age but actually you can be above average you can personally decide I'm actually going to really show up for someone or I'm going to really try now that I'm in a job or in a marriage and whatnot so I think to your point right it's like you can be anywhere but you can just like we prioritize going to the doctor's office or maybe we don't but just like we do that or going to work or going to a workout class we can also prioritize showing up to our friends or reaching out to them so I think it is there's truth to the the kind of cultures I think that we live in especially in a place like New York but if you look at all the people that showed up here I think there's you know a collective sort of understanding about things that matter above just you know grinding it out is there anything else yeah first lead to be in your orbit Stella is such a joy that anybody is Australian house if you didn't know sorry continue you referenced earlier in the podcast that adventure is your word of the year which I am lucky enough to already know but I'm really intrigued to understand how you define adventure in this season beyond just the typical catch of fly which you do very often but how are you defining that and really embracing adventure in this year great question I will say that for me adventure is now about looking for awe like moments of awe and I think you can find that even when you're planted right where you are so trying and you well I live very close to my office but like an example is trying and you route to work one day is like not taking the consistent path of where you're going to I grew up here so it's it's easy to forget that there's so much to explore in New York which now you can show me the places that excite you but it's about trying to approach kind of your surroundings with like a sense of wonder and seeking out that awe so that for me is how I'm trying to find more adventure in my life anything else yes thanks for a great conversation my question is how do you distinguish between discomfort so one is you go through this comfort you know it's joy happiness there versus it's just unnecessary discomfort you should just avoid it that's a great question so there's a quote that I love it's this idea that pain is suffering or pain is inevitable but suffering is optional and it's it ties into this like whole Buddhist theory around the second arrow and the idea is life is always going to throw you an arrow and it's going to be painful but the second arrow is self-inflicted and it's the suffering that you inflict upon yourself that I think comes from rumination it's really any behavior that takes you out of the presence and something we didn't talk about in the podcast is another learning that I've gained is about presence being really what happiness is it's staying rooted in the here and now anxiety is like rumination about what hasn't happened depression is thinking about things that it haven't have and you're stuck in that and the self-inflicted second arrow the suffering is when you act from I think a place of fear to protect yourself because our ego is like we'll get in the way of everything and when you're kind of in that state of just not allowing yourself to let go and just be that is the unnecessary discomfort that I think we create for ourselves but that first arrow you can't avoid so you just got to let it kind of like puncture and self-soothe and let that just be one arrow and not self-inflicted the second one. Yeah I love that because I also feel like when we went to this event we talked about that afterwards and oftentimes the second arrow always hurts you more and you're the one that control can control it. We'll maybe take one one or two more yes. Two more. First of all I love the conversation and it's been a joy to bring this for you here. But I wanted to ask what do you think are some things that are driving this unhappiness and this disconnection in our culture and what are some ways that we can better show up and be the change to create more connection and more happiness in our lives and in every business. It's a beautiful question. I think a lot of unhappiness comes from the comparison mindset and social media definitely does not help with that because it's very easy to compare and I was actually thinking about this today. Something that I'm launching at my job is internal personal branding workshops for some of our innovation practitioners and the goal is to get people to post more on LinkedIn and I was doing this exercise with a peer and he was like I have these passions but I just don't feel like people are going to see my voice as credible or like there's something worth saying and I tried to push back and challenge him and say you have to believe that what you have to say is valuable and so I think if we want to see change we have to believe that within ourselves. We have to have the conviction within ourselves that what we're doing is meaningful and I think it comes from not comparing because he had offered an anecdote like you know someone who's way more seasoned in their career it makes sense for them to post all these updates on LinkedIn for example and I was thinking to myself well you you feel like you're not competent because you're comparing your five years in the corporate world to someone who has three times that on you but think about a college kid who has not even entered the corporate world you have a wealth of knowledge and comparison to them so I think we need to stop looking outward and start looking inward to spark that change. I think there is one more yes two more yeah go ahead yeah. I want to steal. Thank you so much. My question kind of goes back to what you guys mentioned earlier about the self-care economy and the duality of that that I think is kind of emphasized by by a lot of young professionals in New York where you feel you have to make a lot of sacrifices and self-isolate to bind harder or harder especially if you want to create your own you know to newer do an amazing podcast or something like that but you guys also spoke about the value of getting involved in your community putting yourself out there and oftentimes I feel like we're often kind of weighing the pros and cons of the cost benefit analysis to a need to stay home and work harder and grind and push or will I actually achieve more by putting myself out there and making myself vulnerable and going to events and socializing and having conversations with people and I want to know how you kind of struck that balance creating your own thing while also having a corporate job. Yeah so I for people who know me really well I'm like always doing something I'm always going to I'm always doing things with people and I love being social but it does get really taxate like it is exhausting and as that you know has had accumulated over time I realized I wasn't investing time and just being alone like just being at home and doing nothing and spending a few extra hours in the evening to finish up work that I hadn't done earlier like being okay with sacrificing some of the social stuff and so I kind of had to like swing on the other end of the pendulum to recalibrate back to the center because I was so far on the I'm going to socialize and be out and about all the time and so I was in the season of life for a period of time where I really needed to just be home and like say no to things and I was okay with that because I was so foreign to me I think sometimes we need to be on the complete opposite end of the spectrum to come back to balance and to come back to center because these seasons of life they're also impermanent so even if you're in a season where you're grinding a lot like that's okay and you'll probably hit a point intuitively where you'll you'll realize maybe it would be to my benefit to be more social and to to prioritize that a bit more but I also think that um sometimes especially in New York a lot of people think that you can't have it all like I think you you can you can have everything but you can't have it all at once and so um it feels like you're making a sacrifice sometimes by investing in your relationships but at the end of the day your relationships are actually what make you feel happier not any sort of accomplishment or achievement and so we have to remind ourselves of that too when you know focusing on creating those healthier lifestyles for ourselves. There's a word yes. Well thank you for being us all together this evening. You mentioned your family being like the source of comfort or a safe space when you're going through a rough time you've also referenced your re-carriage so I wanted to know if there were any cultural wisdoms or values that you draw inspiration from being rich and just three philosophy being such a thing like how does that carry and transfer over to what you do with everyday orphan everyday orphans and how do you draw inspiration from your heritage? Such a great question um well I try to do it. to think well, what would Socrates be honest? I also kind of, part of my major at school was in philosophy. So there's a lot of-- the Greeks were really pivotal in philosophy. And I also think that there's a lot of roots of stoicism in Greek philosophy. And the Stoics, again, come back to this point Alexa raised around focusing on what you can versus what you can't control. And we're really good at focusing on what we can't. And we're not that good at focusing on what we can control. So I try to think about that and apply it into my life. Aristotle also has a really amazing philosophy on friendship and how there's different types of friends for different types of things. And that's something I try to think about a lot when exploring relationships on the podcast and also navigating my own interpersonal relationships. But the Greek heritage beyond philosophy, I think that there's something so special to be said around really owning your identity and celebrating all parts of your identity. And something that's beautiful about the Greek culture, especially across the states and specifically New York, is that the Greeks really stay together. And there's always an event or there's a lot of events through the church. And this could be a whole other tangent, but how Gen Zs are now going to the church for community. And I just think that to be Greek and in New York and to be part of that very specific community and culture gives you a built-in group of friends that is so special to have. And it makes you feel more connected. And that was something for me that was really pivotal a few years ago when I really got involved in the community and you feel like a sense of belonging. And when you feel like you belong somewhere, you feel accepted. And that is the fundamental building blocks to happiness and quality relationships is to feel like you're seen and you belong and that you're accepted. So an entry point to that can be a cultural thing, a religion thing, but it can also be something else. But for me, being Greek has been awesome. And leaning into that. I love that. I feel like what would Socrates say is an amazing place to end? Well, thank you so much. Your wisdom, it's clearly shown that everyone just appreciates you and what you've built. And I really think a through line is just being able to control what we can and realize that here and now we have so much to be excited about whether it's the water filter or a different route to work. So I think you've really reframed happiness in a way that we can really remember and take control over. So it's been a privilege to do this. And thank you all for your amazing questions. Thank you, everyone. [APPLAUSE] Pichon.