Today's episode is sponsored by Tamarack Home Brew Supplies. You won't stop shop for hops, grains, yeasts, and all the other gear you might need to brew something worth drinking. Dave Donnelly's been taking care of us home brewers in Southeast from Massachusetts for years, and if you haven't checked him out yet, now's the time. Head over to TamarackHomeBrewSupplies.com and get brewing. And while you're at it, Red Hand Brewing is right down the road, and I have it on good authority that they have an epic tap whistle. So go get some. Anyways, let's get on with the show. [Music] Welcome to Beyond IPAs, a podcast dedicated to New England's amazing craft beer community. We appreciate you joining us as we converse with the incredibly talented craft brewers who craft up that liquid poetry that we love so much. As well as the many interesting people that are part of our craft beer community. So sit back, relax, and join us as we enjoy our fine local craft brew and learn a little something. [Music] Hello. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Where are we? Two weeks in a row. Two weeks in a row. Two weeks in a row. Yeah. Well, this one's a special. We're like how, Rick. We're on a roll. Very special week. We teased it in our last podcast. But here we are with our very dear friend on Zoom. You're setting a new record for appearances. Well, we're not going to get into that. We don't want to get anyone but hurt. Like Rick. Rick who? Nevermind. Please welcome Kyle Hume, the owner of Kyle Juice, which I don't use that term, but people love that term. Little Willow owner on the podcast. We've had him on before, but it's been a bit. It's been a bit. So, reached out to the fella and said, let's get together and he's always game. Although I did get a chuckle when he said, in person or on Zoom, I'm like, dude, I'm not driving out the way East Hamden or wherever the hell you are. [Laughter] We could have that halfway. We could have figured it out. We're not going to enjoy it. All right, here we go. So this is cool stuff. Let's go around the table. We'll talk about what we drink in and then we'll jump right in. And I will start. I'm not going to defer to the guest. We'll let Kyle go last. Wow. But I am drinking. I saved one for this purpose only. It is my favorite. My number one little Willow is Willie Goat. It is the best beer he makes. Now if you could call up on Rick Gallego Gallego. What's his fucking name? Gallego Gallego? What's his name? I don't even find it. Rick G. Let's just leave it up. Rick G. Well, he invited us up. He needed his wabies up on the roof deck. That's the roof deck, right? Kyle was nice. I was like, come out there. It was the first time you brewed it. Willie Goat. You actually can do. I think that day maybe. Even though the day before and it was delicious. And it's just as good now as it ever was. I went to, you know, a beer is good when you buy it. You drink it all and you have to go back and get it. Right? You know, so many things that you get. I mean, yeah, it's probably not much in your fridge. So you hand it. Well, you can have it. The fridge is always stuck. But I'm like sucking them back like it's water. Anyway, Kyle, fucking phenomenal beer. Three of my favorite hops, citra galaxy or Kyle. The thing is, bitch, and this batch was awesome. Danny, what do you got? A lot of you, Danny and Scott, you guys can go together. It looks like we're. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm on the little world train, obviously, as well. I present first flight. Yeah. I will say this. Kyle, so my kids look at the beer labels all the time. And they are the most fans of the little, little labels. Because, you know, they always like to see what the shadow, what will, what will it do? It's doing too. It's doing. Yeah. And I always tell, I explain to, I always say, I mean, I thought we know it's Kyle, his daughter's willow, she's around her age. And it's always something, like some period of something that what she's doing. Yeah. So it's, you know, I always enjoy this, enjoy the beer. And this, and this is just another one of the little willows that I enjoy. So good. Good. Yeah. No, I got the same one. It's, it's funny because I always do it. Any time I bring up little willow, I talked about it multiple times this weekend. I was out in one of my wife's working weekends where I was all by myself. Brian, I'm not unleashed. Yeah, Brian, unleashed, if you will. I did my thing. And I don't want to revisit this past weekend. We went too far. But anyway, I always had time to get into a conversation. I always bring up little willows. And I was explaining, you know, how we, how we names is beer and explaining. So, wait a minute, you recorded some random person in a brewery and were, it wasn't a rando. It was a song for you. Yeah. You know, I am. All right. It's about, it's about Kyle. Kyle, what's in your cup? I got this year's Steer and Nevada celebration. Look at this. Oh, look at this. Look at this. Steer and Nevada's celebration. Back to the OG, back to the old school. Well, I mean, you can even think of a beer that compares to Steer and Nevada celebrate. It's one by itself. Yep. Every year, it seems to be consistently awesome. Yep. And this beer is great. It's multi. It's happy. It's got character upon character throughout the entire flavor experience. This, I think this beer is absolutely excellent. Earlier, I had a friend over. So I got to have some green cheek and some brew host just to get me started. Yeah. I think you'd like that. You know, when you got to bring it down for the night, the Steer and the celebration is the way to go. And all the things you just listed about is the reason why I don't like it. Oh, yeah. It's too much. You said multi. You said multi. I don't like that. I can't. Yeah. Listen. If you don't like the West Coast, you would know. If you force it. No, I'm the drink that I would, but I probably wouldn't finish it. But I get it. I appreciate it. I respect it. Now, you said something about green cheek and brew host. I'm like, I just, I just put another order in for my North Park and more green cheek coming in soon. My, my agent just ordered it for me. I'm on a timer. I just, I'll chat. CBT order. That's for me. All right. Green cheek is phenomenal. Oh. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, you know, you have to listen to our, our, the podcast we just released. We did talk about Hazy, No England and we talked about, yeah, I listened to it. How did you? Twice today, actually. Twice. It was so good. It was so, it was so tough. He had to make sure he did, he did make sure he did. We were, all we were just not speaking clearly enough. It's like, wait a second. I have no idea what they were talking about. I'm going to go back and listen to it again. Smash that like button. Yeah, yeah. I found it. Yeah. All right. Let's get into it. As you, if you, if you did listen to the podcast, what, you'll know we're trying to, we're trying to shorten the episodes. We can, we can maybe make two episodes. I will say we're just going to go and let it flow. Yep. Kyle's a talker. I'm not going to be talking to him. I'm talking to him. Talked to him a bit. So we might get, we might get a couple episodes out of this. We'll see how it happens. Kyle, what the hell has been going on? Little will talk to me because I just, I just, I just, and I talked to someone about this. I said, oh, um, Zachy Beas just, just, Jack Wangwai just posted this. Went to Curtis, got his little willow. And I'm like, I had to, I'm like, yeah, little willow, he's just hitting on all some of this right now. Now, I don't know. He probably bought it because he heard, he did say that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're like, Mr. Beast. Yeah. Yeah. Same thing. Same thing. Same thing. So what's, what's new with little willow? It's been a while since I listen to this, since all of our list has, have heard about him. What's going on? So things are obviously going really well. Yeah. I'm, I'm releasing, I'm still trying to do. So every month, I'll do a re-release of something from the past and something new as far as the IVH are concerned at this point. We're at 84 beers released. Wow. Or especially history. I think I've had 81 of them. I got to find those three. So, yeah, I still have your party time. It's hilarious. It's in the garage right now. Probably like way past where you'd want it. But I did, I still have that for back. Anyways, so I mean, what we're, what I'm, what I'm trying to do, I'm still trying to do. So we got 12 months, we got 12 re-releases and 12 new beers. The new beers are usually still decided, like literally weeks before they happen, including the label and everything involved because I want to keep doing the things where I'm, I'm on the cutting edge of new hops and new experiences for people. And that comes along with new education for people as well. You know, I like the idea of people drinking my beer and not only having experience of a beer, but education on, you know, I like this beer. I maybe I like this hop. Now, maybe they'll enjoy this hop and someone else's beer. And like as they, you know, explore their way through the craft beer world, they now know that there's something that they enjoy so they can look out for it. Or on the other end of things, they're like, oh my god, that was a terrible experience. That tasted terrible. They know that maybe I won't spend such amount of money on this for-pack because it contains that hop so it might not be something extra. So we have we have. Okay, you go. Oh, I mean, I could go forever, but like, you know, we'll have the 12 repeats, we'll have the 12 new releases and it also goes along with what we were talking about earlier with the name.
of the beers and then having to be relative to what's going on, not having to, but that's what I like. Be relative to what I'm doing with Willow and what we're doing in our lives, whether it's an event experience or just something that's going on, so that's where the name's coming from. Which is so clever. Which is so clever because every time I see one, and you just triggered something to me, every time I see one, I try to figure out what was it. What was the event? What happened? You know, first flight obviously is, I think, is pretty straightforward, right? Or is it not? Maybe not, but we could see it with the bag. Yeah, we're friends with Facebook, Steve probably saw that. She went to Disney. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was not only her first trip to Disney, but it was her first time on an airplane. Sorry, first flight. And if you look closely on the tail, the flight or the airline we took was Jeff Lew. So if you look really closely on the tail, it's actually the, ah, object. I love it. So it's not enough to get sued, but it's enough to show you. It's a, what do they call them? It's a little, um, what do they call them? Easter egg. Yeah, it's a little egg, a little egg. You got a hunt for it. That's a good idea. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Now, so I mean, that's fun. This year, um, we're going to do a bit of a larger batch of Beach Cobra and Hasey days. So we're going to bring that up quite a bit. Those are going to be 120 barrel batches. So there's going to be quite a bit of that. The beer is still selling out at a rate that, um, it's, it's not enough. So I'm not even close to filling the pipeline, even in Nassenroad Island, let alone the other states and that's awesome. So I mean, we're still looking at, I mean, we're, it's probably like, it's thousands and thousands of cases a month that are going out and it's less than a couple hours before those are completely gone. Wow. Out of distributors hands. So hitting stores and we say it all the time, Kyle, I had to, it could be ourselves, right? It does. And it doesn't surprise me. The only thing I don't hear it and maybe you meant to say it, maybe you meant to say Hasey days Beach Cobra and Willie go, you didn't. So we'll, we'll have to talk separately about that. But fine, but I'll tell you Beach Cobra is another one that Beach Bernie, like Bernie Hink loves, like if that's, that could be his favorite. Like, Hasey days too. When it comes to that little will out like in favor, it's like, there's a lot of them. And I'll say too, like for as long as we've been doing this and as long as we've been doing the Facebook group, you see some breweries come in, some breweries come out, like you know, people talk about them, they're hot for a while. I feel like with you, like it just kind of, you know, there was that boom and that was just now. It's just there. There's, there's a minute. It's been years, right? So it's, yeah. It's not a flu. Yeah. So fourth year and it's starting to ramp back up again, which is kind of wild. Um, this year I'll be dipping into some new styles. I'm going to release a couple of fruit and brotherly advice. I'm going to be doing a check filter. I'll probably re-release the brown ale. I'm going to be doing a Russian imperial stout or some sort of an immorality stout without the flavors more like a traditional style. Just traditional. Yeah. Yeah. It's still going to be big bodied. I don't want to go back to like 1996 where the stouts were big ABV, but thin. Yeah. I don't want to have character to it, but I'm not trying to push sweetness or like kind of like adjunct as much. Sure. Sure. And you know, these other beers that are outside of the IPA's, they'll exist. Mostly it'll be like mass that'll get the the abundance of them. You might see a little bit of it trickle into hamster, but they're going to be on the smaller side because, you know, until, you know, the consumer decides whether or not this is something they enjoy. I don't want to be putting, you know, I don't want to shove it. I'm not out here to shove anything down. Anybody's. I don't think there's a lot of shove in. I don't think there is. Yeah. To be honest with you, but I think I'm still out. Yeah. I'm still on the market, you know what I mean? So like, I'll pay attention to how long things are on the show list. Sure. And I have no problem just like going and saying, let's, let's decrease batch size. You know what I mean? Let's bring it back down. Let's put less out. Let's, let's let it all catch up and find out, you know, where it's doing well where it's not doing. We can do that. It's like the thing. It's like the biggest thing for me is that the quality needs to be there. The consistency needs to be there. Nothing is going out the door that is just going to go out the door. I'm not in this for the money part of things. It's cool. Yeah. It happens. But that's not what it's about. It's about post back to what I made in my kitchen and what people enjoy and what I enjoy. And that's craft beer and that's a quality product. And that's what it's going to stay at. And without having the overhead and a tap from things like that, I can make the decisions to do whatever I want. And I can make sure that what's going into the consumer's hands is what it's intended to be. And it allows the consumer to when they see the little will logo to trust that that is going to be a good beer all the time. They may not love it, but they'll never not be able to say that it was a good beer. It'll never be a drain pour. Even if it's a hot, they don't like because it will be a good beer that they can trust that their hard earned money will not be wasted. It'll not be something they can call them. They crack it. They pour it. They take a sip and they're like, oh no. I never want anybody to have that experience with my brand. I did. Hey, listen, I don't think it's happened yet. At least in what I've heard. I think I can see a lot of kind of what the general public says. I mean, as much as I'm on the group and in tune with what's being posted and stuff like that. I'm trying to think of if I've heard a negative word about it. And so, I'm sure in the depth or whatever, you might see it and you've probably seen it Kyle, maybe just look could be haters or whatever. But I will tell you, man, and you said that it's ramping back up. And when I say that you've been up here and then you're consistent and you haven't fallen, I do feel like it's almost recently. Just the quality has just been so much. I don't know. So talk about, has there been any adjustments in the process, adjustments in any, like have you tweaked anything based on feedback or anything like that? I know you're in tune with what's going on. But I mean, always, I mean, I still, I read every, you know, Zach's post the other day. I saw that probably the same time you did. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure I'm totally in tune with everything, every message I listen to, everything. I get postcards and mail from people and things like that sent to my house and I read and, you know, take that back. I listen to everything that everyone says, but I also pay attention to the response, you know, like I have never missed one on tap review. You know, I have like 60,000 plus on tap review and like I have not missed one of them. I read every single one of them. And I listen to what people have to say. And you know, it's not about me anymore. It's about what people enjoy and I want to make something that people do it in the time that is now. And what is now is not what was four years ago. So, you know, I feel like four years ago, maybe you want a sweeter beer, maybe you want a softer beer, maybe you want a beer that's a little more, this details, it's detail. But now, I feel like the consumer is moving a touch more towards they want a little assertiveness. They want it to be smooth, they want it to be drinkable. They don't want it to be west coast assertive, but they do want it to have some sort of a little kick to a little thing in the flavor of beer. And you know, galaxy things like that, they naturally kind of give it that, but it's definitely become a thing where like even all tastes to beer and I'm like, whoa, that kicks pretty hard. I wonder if people will like it. And then it turn around and it's like a 4.28 on tap. And I'm like, oh my God. Yeah, like it's getting pretty good. It's kind of cool. So, so it's interesting. Like, yeah, I love that. I love the detail that you're into on this and it means a lot. And that's part of your success, right? You have to be, and we know other brewers that are maybe not as deep, but in that detail. And we know some of that are not. And I think it, you can see that in the product that comes out, right? So talk about the hops. Like big moves had a Lonnie. It's kind of a hop that is kind of newer, maybe not new, but you don't see it a ton. What are some of the other ones you're looking at if you don't mind chatting about that? Like obviously like in the last kind of year, year and a half, featuring a nectar on a pit and the hit hard, right? And everyone was using those and they were awesome. And you know, if I could get featuring, yeah, it's great. It would be in like 60% of years. It is such a good hop. The slow down I did, which was Citroa and featuring. Yeah, maybe was my favorite beer. I mean, everything from the aromatics to the start, the middle and the finish. Yeah, it was like 100% my God. And that was like, that was weird, man. That was almost like a black market purchase. Like a person or a hop guy reached out to me and was like, hey, I got some featuring. A batch fell off the back of my truck. And it was like real weird. I said, market. It's a back in the day by me. And he was all like, well, don't worry about that. He just how much do you need? And I was like, well, I got to know a price. He's like, well, dude, I only got a pallet. So I got to know what you need. And he's like, I'll give it to you for this. And I was like, that seems kind of cheap. And I was like, well, let me get, let me get such and such a mountain. I'll give it a shot. You know, when I got it. And then I used it and I was like, oh my God. And then I reached back out. Guys like, no, absolutely not because they only did a small crop of that overall. All right. So it was like almost pre-sold all the way out the door. This year, they're supposed to be more.
So Kyle explain explain to explain the listeners why something like like that type of hop right or Dan You know you know the details around this too, but Why a hop some hops are readily available and some aren't like is there trademarks on them is there like what's the Market for hops. So like why can't you get petriene or nectar on or or whatever? You know or even if like home bro goes to a store we go down to Tamaracks, you know and get Born to buy hops. We only have so many hops available to us, right? Why is that and then you take this for you? There are trademarks like Citra is is trademarked I know you're not even like legally allowed to possess Arise or you know like ability to be able to even grow on your own It's actually where it's grown. I've heard there I haven't seen this but I've heard this like gated You know what I mean? It's like protected and like blocked off from the public even being able to mess around To go snip one um, but like the new hops like petriene and stuff like that these are hops that the growers are hoping work out Whether they're crossed with other hops or they're just a brand new variety that have been engineered Um, they'll put it out in a certain amount, but they don't know how it's gonna how it's gonna work in beer They have an idea and a hope, but until it's actually Tested and tried they don't know so usually the the things like petriene stuff like that are done in a small amount But as soon as one person gets it and they're like oh my god Everybody's scoop stuff the rest and then it's gone Um, so that's kind of how that works, but like to your point so so petriene like now now the popularity's growing So they're gonna they're gonna grow more like it's it's gonna that's why you might become more readily available It takes a while they are growing more and it'll become more readily available But here's the flip side of that that people really don't realize unless you're in the industry and Bear galaxy when they came out in a small amount 2017 galaxy there is that nothing has ever been like 2017 galaxy galaxy today is nothing Not a trace of character in today's galaxy that compared to the 2017 2017 was so passion fruit and pineapple you swear that when the beer said it was in that they added some sort of a fruit juice But every year hops evolved good thing. I wasn't drinking craft back then She's got soil conditions. Yeah, it could be the amount of rain that they received that year It could be storms. It could be it could be all sorts of different weather conditions Well, it's funny with galaxy even the wildfires like after those wildfires that wiped out like it took a while It took a while for that to come back right the galaxy. Oh absolutely Like Nelson Nelson got weird. Yeah, wildfire. It was a little more smoking than usual That was wildfires or if that was just in my head, but I had that discussion with my friend Mike and he was like oh man All I get it all I get a smoky out of this fun like I need to get what you're saying, but yeah, so it's like You know the conditions of weather And like sure oil and the earth itself kind of will dictate how much is going to be that year But some years like that 2017 galaxy it just hit perfectly and it's it's beautiful. So yeah, featuring Awesome awesome. Will it be awesome again? We'll say no guarantee. Hopefully, but it's funny you said too Like and so they are they are crossbreeding them right and you that's why these experimental hops come out right these HBC You know, yeah, the XBC. Yeah, like all that stuff like they until they know they can move it and sell it and it works Then our name it right and then so that's interesting. I love that whole the whole concept of it Cool though about Chuck beer like it's it's you can it's an or right you got you got to work with the ingredients like a chef Well, yeah, even blending if you get too big you do a shit room We got a lot of galaxies you've got to make sure you have the right percentages right and you can experiment on small batches and stuff like that But yeah, I mean it's probably easier with the well or more well known hops, but I mean, you know you get like an alani or something that's not Well known it's like you got to Measure it up and make sure that you're even two years ago alani was like HBC and you're right. Yep, right And then yeah, it's like yeah, that didn't even have it like pink pink you that was another one. I just saw Yeah, that was HBC that was that was like a year ago. I just I remember seeing another one the other day on someone used it and it was It was a new hop and they were hoping it took off I Use most in 10-sight five which I don't think I've ever seen Yeah, I have the time seeing this or till now and that's wild because I was kind of going on a limb on that one And it did really well, but that's a check-hop So that's not traditionally interesting Interesting in a new angle IPA Interesting there were characteristics and aroma to that that I was like, you know what? I think this might I think this might work. Well, you know it's funny in now that you kind of talk about that more It's like I feel like A brewery like tree house have more recently New Zealand hops New Zealand hops everything's been New Zealand hops And I don't know if it's just I don't know why like it's just to your point. Oh, weather's changed and and but New Zealand's always had hops now. I just feel like in the last like six seven months I just see almost everything treehouse does is New Zealand hops to New Zealand hops New Zealand pills there I had a New Zealand pills in the last last week and So it is it's it has to do a lot to do with weather and lot to do with conditions and timing and Stuff like that. I'm amazed by New Zealand produces most of the tropical fruity juicy hops that We would want to do in the IPA whereas like stuff that we produce here Um, it just you're not going to get the characteristic Yeah, it's it's more like we know there's west coat more bittering hops more of those dual purpose and bittering hops first of the The high, you know high flavor hops, you know, I love it all I love it all So you didn't so sorry, I probably cut you off at some point which I normally do Oh, no What what are some of the hops you're thinking about going forward like do you want to you don't need to tell us if you don't want to It's fine. I oh so that's that's the fun thing about this you don't really know you don't really know right now So like these hops might not exist until two weeks before the beer is in the tank So you just you just kind of wait to see what's available and then you kind of go off of that I want to I want to get the stuff that's brand new. I want to try the new things It's not just for me, but it's for everyone else too. It's like Let's you know instead of just doing the same old combinations same old things that everybody's already done a million times up in Let's bring new things in let's make this about education. Let's make this about an experience. Let's make it more than just a beer Let's make it like something that is is I don't know. It's like it's almost like it's almost like an event It's in until like like I'll say it to you even because it's because it's in Willie go Rakao was one that Over the last two or two and a half years it it climbed into my top three hops like it was never there before Like I was standing waiting it. How many hops you think he has in top three? I have 12 hops in my top five All right, but like Kula who has it? Who loves who ranks at hops? Kula loves like Rakao. Is it anything he? Jeff grabs up like he needs it like yeah, this is those like it's it's it's But even Rakao I mean even Rakao when Rakao came out it was all peach Yeah, change change the lots of you like to the point where it was like too much peach And now I feel like it's got an a tinged more green and a little bit more earthy So say earthy or floral right? Yeah, you'll still get tropical fruit you still get all these things But now all of a sudden it's evolving Sure becoming a little bit different So it's it's weird how hops do that you know what I mean? I love it all Hit him while there's hit him while they're hot, but don't rely on them forever You know in some cases because you're not always gonna main be able to maintain consistency because Yep, 100% without your permission But it's cool too right? So is there is there a beer Kyle like that you can think of in your in your portfolio that that May have changed over the years because of the the hop it changed. Can you think of anything? I'm always fighting with galaxy. Yeah, gal galaxy's tough. You've talked about this before. Yeah, galaxy's tough Galaxy varies from like crop fields or crop Yeah, interesting, you know altitude and like every everything 10 for mental hops. It's like You hope for the best you know what I mean, but like you you know galaxy can go from tropical fruit To green peppers and like And like wild shit over here or you might get this whole like fruitball on this end of things It's like it's a whole thing, you know, so it's like galaxy's a big one I feel like if we're gonna name big guys Nelson can be all over the place Nelson could be green sure Nelson could be um You know the uh the white grape and the tropical fruit and like the dryness that you kind of like that's complimentary What's the other hot blue step man, but remember the first time we had it we were like no no It's not Nelson, but it's in that same. Oh the the white grape when yeah um And I'm not how long so on uh, no, no it tastes like so long block. Oh Tritley him had it and they used it and we were like no that's not awesome Thank god it's killing me, but I never see it anymore. Yeah, it's never in there It'll come to me it'll come to me and there's probably 15 people that are listening to this right now they're saying oh that's the yeah, you'd they've said just send the hot once and spell on us um So I so I love this the suspect to it too so when I when I
Obviously, someone like me is a consumer, and I always have little willow in the fridge. When Kyle Hume opens his fridge, what is he expecting? What do we expect it to see? - Yeah, like what is going on? - It's just, what is going on? The new home and open up my fridge. All right, we know we may see some celebration right now, but if I came in, what other brews are craft beers, am I gonna see in your fridge? - Oh boy. So I'm really into like farmhouse sales. I'm in-- - Interesting. - Like dream on time, things like that, kind of like the more wild ale kind of stuff. There'll always be some PBR in my fridge. - Nice. Keep it in the office. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - PBRs. I'm really into loggers and pilsners, and things like that. I'm into more like crisp, refreshing beers that, you know, with pilsners and loggers, it's not only a great experience in something you can have more than a pop-alive, but it's also a beer that it takes quite a bit of skill to be able to actually-- - Sure, correct. - Without that. - It's some funky flavor on the end of some sort of weird thing going on. That's very hard to ferment perfectly. So I have a lot of respect for the people that can do that and do it well. Like, shilling, I mean, come on. - Sure, sure. - Pretty much every, I don't think I've had a shilling beer where I'm like gross. Every shilling beer is an experience. And then it's got like, it's got like a lineage to it. - Well, I see. - It's like the whole, you know, like, yeah, go ahead. - I saw a West Coast pilsner. We talked about that last week, a little bit. Almost wrapped it up. - And now it's gonna ask him. - And then I just, mm-hmm. - Try it. It's phenomenal. - Yeah, we talked about it last week. - Right, it can have much flavor, but I should know better 'cause it's so good. - Kyle and Ann, it's funny. You brought that up and Scott just elaborate on it. Like, we talked about it last week too. It's the fact that you have a hopped log or a hopped pilsner now. Like, people are doing that and they're doing it so well. And it just brings out that extra flavor. And for me, that is awesome. Like, I do that for us. - So that's what I would love to see that out. - It's cool to see that stuff because it adds another dimension. - Sure. - Right, a beer is what it is. But then you add something like hops to a pilsner and now all of a sudden it's what it is, but there's also something else. - Yeah, yeah. - So when you can create something that has like stages to it, just drinking it. - Right, it takes you out of ride. - You take a sip, it hits your mouth, you swallow it, and there's like steps of like things are going. - Through the palate. - That's what I like. - That's beer drinking, right? - I mean, anybody can make something that you drink and it's smell and it's just, it's there. It is what it is and it goes down and that's the it. But when you create something that you go through. - It makes you think. - And it makes you think. - That's craft, that's what's fun. - I love that, I love it at all. So call it what you want. Call it a West Coast pilsner, call it an IPL, call it a, you know, hoppy pilsner, call it whatever you want. Like, you know, people are gonna change the names and twist the names. But to me, that I think if we talk about styles and what's next, like that is in the last year, I've seen so much of that. In the West Coast. - You got to think Jack's Abbey brought that to fruition. - Sure they did. - They came up, they're like, - Who is the Hoplinians? - The Hoplinians Union. - They're like, try this out. - And it wasn't hell is this. - And it didn't take it. I was like, that's cool. - It took him my fridge. - No, but it did, but it didn't spread. It didn't spread at the time. They did it. They were before their time, right? You know, and so I would suggest to everyone, go back and revisit them now. After having a, a hopp pilsner, a hop logger, go get a Arpanius and try it again. You're probably blown away because they were the ones, the first ones to do it. And I just don't remember that spreading. - Exactly, exactly. - And they're legit too. And notch, notch is another one. Natch creates great European style, OG styles. And they, I don't even think they've really gotten to the hopp and their logger and pils. And maybe they won't, but if shillings do it, then maybe not, you know, it's interesting. I love just the transformation of that, the brewery perspective of it. Do I do it? Do I not do it? What's driving you on that? Like, you know, and that's why I was gonna ask you, like, so who do you pay attention to in the market? Like, you know, obviously, you know, if you think about the life cycle of a brewery and there's been a lot of breweries that have closed and not as many are opening as they were. But when you, when you, like, you know, when you're on the Facebook page or you're like, who we, like, obviously, you like, you must think of a brewery and say, what are they doing next or? Like, is there any breweries that you kind of will say, oh, I'm, they're always in the top of your head. Like, what are they doing now? - Yeah, 100%. So it leads me back to, there's one more that would be in my fridge, always. And it's always their latest thing. And it's my favorite IP A brewery. And it's who I have the utmost respectable. - I love this. - And that's other half. Other half makes phenomenal beer that is expressive while maintaining balance, while maintaining consistency, while giving you an experience of a hop in a way that I'm, I'm jealous of, you know what I mean? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Like, some of their aromatics on their beers, like, I sit there and I don't even drink it for a while. I'll smell it and then like, I'll put it down and like, I'll come back to it just to smell it. - Yeah, see, see, see, see, see what happens. - Yeah, as a warmth, right? Like, yeah. - Wow, like, you know, like, I feel like I had, I know quite a bit about brewery, the process and everything, but for them to capture that is just unbelievable. I think they do an excellent job. I think that they have been good for so long without dipping down. - Sure, there's been some where I haven't been like, this is my favorite, but I'm also, it's again, it comes back to my flask. I'm not pouring it, you know what I'm not talking about? - You sure, sure. - Still drinking it, you know what I mean? I think other half is just amazing. - They make drinkable beer all the time. It's, it's, it's, 100%. - I pay attention to them. - Okay, interesting, yeah. - I love what they're doing. - Yeah, I love it. And so, the other thing with it, I'll say with other half too, like, when you look at volume, right, that they make so many different beers, so, and they keep on adding to that. I'd love to know what their portfolio is, but they keep on adding. Like, they're always making new beers and they're doing collab. So, they're always learning too. Like, I love that aspect of it. And I do feel like they may have, you know, at one point, they may have dipped down a little bit, but now I think they're another beer, they're another brewery that you can just always get and you know what you're getting and it's gonna be good. - Yeah. - You know, it's worth the money. - Sure does. - And it's worth the money, you know, - Sure does. - And the reason quality out of nowhere is thinback. - I knew he was gonna say that. - Have you guys had thinbacks since the label change? - Well, so no. - It's a whole new game. It's like, - I knew he was a client of that. - You know what they should say. - It's so fire, dude. Like, I don't know what the hell happened. - One of my favorite thinback beers is Orange Crush and I just bought a can of it because the one thing I'll say about thinback and I 100% agree with you. Their price point is crazy though and it drives me mad. Like again, - Well, I'm by singles. - I know, well that's what it is. I told you, - I love Orange Crush and it's been a while. But I'm like a star and it was a new can. And I'm like, I'm getting it. I'm getting it, I'm gonna try this. I'm probably gonna regret not getting a four pack, but I think the four pack was like 2499. - Dude, you made him really. - Yeah, I made of it. Yeah, but it's so frustrating. Like, and it's a challenge when you have, when we always say, shout out to Brad Mitchell, he coined it, where beer blasts in Southeast Massachusetts? And it's when you have that much competition, I'm not gonna get thinback 2499, but when I, you know, whether it's Harper Lane or, you know, the smaller ones, or whatever it may be. And you know, your price is still are not gouging. And so it's like, "Ugh, but then I always have to remember. I have to go back to thinback." And I just poured another one, Kyle and Kudos to you, 'cause it was probably the best podcast two day of every of that was at Kettlehead. I just got the hop to the teen, and I'm like, "I need to revisit Kettlehead, because again, they've kind of not fallen off my radar, but I love what they do, and their inventory is so vast. It's like, "I can't keep up with it." And then so I always go back and, you know, yeah, I always love my Widowmaker, my second win, 'cause that's accessible, and around, they make great beer, and Little Will makes great beer. Then it's like, I always have to remind myself to revisit. And I knew you were gonna say, "Finback," because I just thought of that with the other day, when I saw it, and I'm like, "I'm grabbing one." I'm grabbing one. - Rainbow Doors, is that fit? Is that fit in back? - No, that is, - Vail, is that Vail? - No. - No, grim, grim. - Grim, that's right. - Rainbow Doors. That's another one, like same thing, like, they, in Vail too, they make, they have a huge, huge. - Dude, grim makes great beer. - They do, they start to awesome. - They start to awesome. - Solid, but I mean, like, across the board, they're another one where it's like, you're not going to get a bad beer. They do a great job. - Yeah, they do a really good job. - And their price point's fantastic. - Yep, always, always good. And so that's what it is. It's like, I can't knock anyone for being fiscally responsible.
nowadays, right? You have to, you have to make sure you make in the right decisions. And I know that weighs on brewers, it weighs on breweries because you're always tight in the margins, right? You have to make sure that the beer is selling sells. And so you don't how high do you go? Costs are going up on your side. I, we get it all. But it, that's a, that's a shaky, shaky proposition when you, and it's like, it's wild because like, when it comes up where prices go up, which I actually just, I went through something recently, where all of a sudden my pricing changed a little bit. And you can't just pass it, you know, you would hope to be able to pass it. But then it's always going to land on the consumer. So you have to sit back and figure it out. The side like, all right, well, I'm going to have to eat a percentage of this personally, you know what I mean? And then because I don't, you know, that's what it's been all about. Yeah. When I came out, I was encouraged by distributors. Today thought I was crazy for putting my price price points at like $18, $19 for four packs. They're like, what the hell's wrong with you, you know, like you're going to be going into a market where everybody's over 20. You can be making more money. You can do all this. And like my simple response to them was, well, if I can't afford to buy my home beer, then how do I expect the consumer to be able to buy my home beer? Smarter beer. Right, right, right. I'm going to never, ever cut corners ever. You know, I'm using yeast and stuff that other people would never even entertain the idea of using because the costs are astronomical. Sure. But the beer is just not going to be the beer if I go another route. And then I'm going to be just letting myself down, not even thinking about how much I'm going to be letting everyone else down. So I will never do that. But yeah, price hikes dude, it sucks. And it's, it's been pretty shitty. I bet. I bet. And that was, you know, that's why I was thinking we could get to episode because I was going to say Kyle, what, you know, what's your view, you know, what's your view on the current market, right? And craft beer industry. Like, yeah, so let's, let's break. And then we're going to, we're going to, we'll jump on it. Yeah, we'll do so. I have just decided this is a two part. Yeah, it is a two part. We're going to, we're going to, we know this is going to be there. And then it's part you put me ahead of Rick now. Yeah, you got to. Right. He's going to break him. We're going to get a tax. Because I, because, because you're a smart man, like I, I, I'm so curious about your take on the craft beer industry and the challenges you guys have. So let's, let's bring it. No, I got some more questions. Yeah. Sorry. So let's, let's wrap this one up. Don't drop Kyle and we'll, we'll, we'll continue on. Yep. You okay? Thanks for joining us. If you want more information about the website or you want to check out some past episodes, you can go to beyond IPAs.com. Check out our website. If you want to join our Facebook group, go to IPAs and beyond. And you can get in on the community there. If you want to just email us directly, hit us up at beyond
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