Littell's Bad April Continues in Queens

Walter Sports Bar is available for private events. Visit waltersdc.com/privateevents for more information. The pitch is sky to right field deep. James Wood going back to the warning track near the wall. He can't get it. It's gone. First pitch right over the 370 mark, a homerun for Bichette, and the bets lead in one to nothing. That's his second of the year, and the 12th allowed by Latale. And one pitch in the bets have the lead. Now the pitch is swinging and driving well to left center field. This is way back. This one is going. Going and gone. A homerun for Wadsoto. He has this crowd. They're on their feet here at City Field. And it's his second home run of the year. And the second given up on the night for Latale. The nationals trail the match eight to nothing. And out of the dugout comes Blake Viotera with a signal to the bullpen. This will be it for Zach Latale. And welcome to Nat Shant. I'm Al Goli host of the Al Goli podcast. I'm joined by Washington Nationals insider Mark Zuckerman of NATSjournal.com. He is at City Field where Nat's president of baseball operations Paul Toboni did a pregame session with reporters on Tuesday. But the session was followed by a shutout loss and ate nothing loss at the New York Met's on Tuesday night in game one of a three game series a game in which the Nats allowed seven runs in the bottom of the fourth. The Nats in M.O.B.s 2026 regular season now are 13 and 17. The Mets now are 10 and 19 tied with the Philadelphia Phillies for the worst record in the majors. The Phillies actually went on Tuesday evening. Seven nothing over the San Francisco Giants. But this was off the Phillies on Tuesday morning announcing having fired their manager Rob Thompson and having promoted bench coach Don Mattingley to interim manager coming up on the show. Discussion of what Paul Toboni had to say on Tuesday, including about what's going on without filter Dylan Cruz and catch her Harry Ford, both of whom are playing for Triple A Rochester and not exactly thriving. And speaking of not exactly thriving, Nat starting pitcher Zach let tell he on Tuesday night had another rough outing eight runs for earned in three and two thirds innings now. The Nats off fans was bad too. But Mark the Zach let tell situation we keep looking for it to get better and it isn't getting better. No, it's not Al and you know, you couldn't have drawn this up and he worse first pitch of the night from him home run. Okay, here we go again. And then he does actually start to salvage some things and he retired what eight in a row and he gets through the third and so is that one run you thought, okay, maybe he's got something figured out. And then he gets himself into another jam bases load in the fourth. And then there's a really bad air by Dorbid Divas at third base. And then you know, the bottom fill out for let tell after that. And yes, the air changes the inning, but he had every opportunity to at least minimize the damage. And instead he just poured gasoline on the fire and didn't even make it out of the inning. And he was kind of at a loss afterwards and talking to us about it. He's clearly frustrated by this. He's not really looking for any positive signs right now. He knows he's not holding up his end of the bargain. And the tough spot for them to be in. I don't see them giving up on this guy already six starts in. But I don't know that you can just kind of continue without trying something different along the way. I'm not really sure where they go from here. It's rough. Like I said, eight runs for earn three and two thirds innings. He gave up five hits which were two home runs and three singles. He issued three walks. He recorded one strikeout. He threw 84 pitches, 46 strikes, 38 balls. Mark mentioned the first homer that was allowed. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. Bottom of the first. He allowed a run, gave up a lead off. First pitch opposite field homer by Boba Shet to right field to put the match up one nothing. One pitch into the game, lettel, who has been given up homers like crazy, gives up a homer. And then the nightmare bottom of the fourth seven runs, only three of which were earned thanks to a one outfielding year by third baseman, Jorby Bibos, who whiffed in his attempt at fielding a one out bases loaded chopper by Marcus Semi and two runs scored on the play. And now lettel's pitch breaking ball bounced to third. Bibos charges and it goes under his glove down the left field line. Melinda scores rounding third, Vietto's hill come into score. But lettel in that inning was not good. He gave up a home run and three singles and issued two walks. And the homer was a two out opposite field to run homer by X net one so to left center for an eight nothing. Metz lead and that basically was the game. You look at lettel now six games five starts ERA 785 whip 174. Just awful numbers, right? But consider this lettel has total 16 strikeouts. He has given up 13 home runs. He is nearly as many home runs allowed as he has strikeouts. I don't know that I've ever seen that before from a pitcher six starts into a regular season nearly as many home runs allowed as strikeouts 16 strike outs versus 13 home runs allowed. Yeah, it's almost hard to believe that that could be true. I mean, he's only the eighth pitcher in history to give up 13 home runs in his first six appearances of a season. So that tells you right there. He's in rare territory when you combine that with the lack of strikeouts. I mean, that that's about as bad as you get and it's not like the walk rates been great either. This is a guy who traditionally has not walked itters and he has been getting himself in trouble this year by walking guys. He is as I said, clearly frustrated by it. He is just not getting away with anything right now. He's got to be so precise with everything he throws to have a chance. And he's just not being precise enough. Now, there is a little stretch of a few innings there where he was kind of put in the ball where he wanted to, but it's just hard to be that precise for an entire game and not have the ability to make even one or two mistakes without getting absolutely killed for it. And then the other part of it that was interesting because of the bebos air and Dorbid took full responsibility for that. And I think he's thinking double play, get out of the inning and he committed the cardinal sin of a defensive player in baseball. Don't think about where you're going to throw it or where you're going to take the ball until you actually have the ball in your possession. And he was just kind of ahead of himself and you saw what happened. But let tell crumbled after that. And he even admitted to us afterwards that like, yeah, it affected him. Definitely affected me. It's going to happen. Okay, it's one thing if you're a rookie or are still new to this game and you're letting something like that in the field negatively impact you. This guy's 30 years old. He's been around for a long time now. Now he's not making an excuse and he's not saying it's a good thing that he did. But he's like acknowledging that it kind of affected him. And if you watched, I don't know if they showed it on TV. As soon as the ball got past bebos, let's tell like both his hands up to his head. Like, oh my god, I can't believe it. And then you saw what happened after that. It's such a bad look and I get it. He's struggling. He needs all the help he can get from his teammates. But you know, how often do they pick you up? You got to be able to pick them up as well. And I think that more than anything was the most shocking part of this that he clearly let that mistake in the field behind him completely throw off what was happening. Come on. Yeah, very disappointing to see that. And very disappointing when you look at net starting pictures slash bulk pictures and the two worst guys by far have been the two veterans, the two supposed innings eaters, Miles Michaelis and Zach let tell there is a clear separation between what those two have done and what foster Griffin, Kate Cavali and Jay Gervin have done Griffin has been really good. Cavali and Irvin certainly have had their problems. But those guys have been a lot better than Michaelis and let tell of been. And it's just a funny deal, right? This is a young team rebuilding team. You sign Michaelis. You sign let tell the ideas for them to provide stability. And leadership and consume innings and these guys are really like it's not just that they've been bad. They've been really bad so much so that already I mean, we get constant emails and messages on X for these guys to be removed from the rotation. But it doesn't sound like that's happening as you wrote about a national calm off the conversation with Paul to Boni. It sounds like at least for now the team is sticking with Michaelis and let tell. Yeah. Now, you know, those comments came before the game. So who knows how the events of the evening might have changed anything. And you know, the question it was my question, it was about both Michaelis and let tell and to Boni's answer while he made sure he mentioned Michaelis in there, it was really more about let tell his answer. Essentially saying we signed him late. We knew there'd be an adjustment period that he'd be behind everyone else. We're sticking with him and believing that what he has done over the last several years and he's going to rediscover that form. Yeah, it's tricky. I spoke to it last week, I think, to like Zach specifically, like he had a late start in his training that factors in. And we just like, you know, we're going to hang by these guys. I don't have a problem with him saying that I think we're getting past the point now where you can really blame it on the late signing. He six starts into this. I don't think that's really the issue anymore, but I do understand the idea of saying, hey, this guy has been a good pitcher the last few years, give him some time and hopefully he figures that out. I don't think he was give up on that. And certainly there's a big difference between paying him seven million versus Michaelis. was paying him 2.25. Now in Michaelis's case, again, he answered the question about lettel and then kind of threw Michaelis's name in there as if he said, "Oh yeah, I remember him too." I didn't come away necessarily thinking that he was committing to Michaelis over the long haul. "I think he's had moments as a miles right over our place. He's probably going to really go out well before we continue to stay in Miami." That one might be something to discuss in the relatively near future. If it continues now, the odd thing there is that since they've gone to this opener strategy, Michaelis has been better. Now they're going out of their way to minimize the amount of time that he's on the mound. They're using pool and to open form. They're using a usually AAA starter to back him up and pitch at least three innings after him. So they're really minimizing Michaelis down to three, four innings tops, face the lineup once, maybe a few guys, twice. But it has at least worked better in that case. So maybe you don't give up on that one quite yet. But I would think that the least is shorter on him. In lettel's case, I don't know that an opener would make a huge difference. But I don't know that just sticking with this is the answer either. I think you owe it to everybody to try something that might be different. Whether that's an opener, whether that's just minimizing the number of guys he faces, whether it's coming up with some reason to put him on the IL and give him some time to clear his head and work on some things. I don't know. It would be pretty disappointing if they fall back into that, you know, Patrick Corbin pattern of we're just going to put him out there every five days. Acknowledging it may not be great. Hope for the best, but expect the worst and never really do anything to try to change it. I don't think that's this organization's mindset right now. But I also don't think that they are just going to give it up on a guy that they did commit $7 million to and just decide one month in. No, that's enough. Well, and more than the money, he has been a good picture of the last two seasons. So you like to think that that's still there. You'd like to think that the gnats with the new process can find that, can fix this guy. We are six starts into it. It feels like a lot more. It is only six starts. We're barely a month into the regular season, but it's been really rough, you know, like the ERA isn't in the fours or fives. The ERA is one of the worst in the sport. And you know, when you're talking about a seven 85 ERA for this guy, it's like, man, this is really tough. And it's the way he's doing it to again, the home runs are out of control and the lack of strikeouts. I know he's not a high strikeout guy, but his strikeouts per nine innings is 5.02 in today's M O B 5.02 strikeouts per nine innings. Even if you're not a big strikeout guy, you can't have that. That's own acceptable. Uh, correct. And, you know, I think he has the kind of arsenal that should be able to do some of that. And what you'd like to think is that he can get ahead in the count and then use the sinker, the off speed stuff that he has to either get guys to chase or even to catch him looking at something that's right on the edges of the zone. He's just not throwing enough pitches in the right spots on the edge of the zone. And they're being picked up way too easily. And of course, when he throws it over the plate, it's getting hammered. So no, he's not a stuff guy. But I think a better version of Zach Latel is at the very least getting some strikeouts and not leaving it up to the chance of the bad and Paul and hoping that your third baseman makes a difficult double play to get you out of a base loaded jam. Algoldy here to tell you about window nations. The more you buy, the more you save sale. But before that, the window nation look into the future. One oh pitch. Cruz slices one into right. Campbell comes racing in that drop fair of base hit. And then it skips by him and rolls into the corner. Franklin being waved around third by Mario LaSona. The throw to the plate. And still will be relayed to third. But it's laid on Cruz. 10 one red wings as Cruz plop one down the right field line that then rolled by Campbell and got into the corner. Well, happy spring. Window nation is ready for spring. And window nation wants that chat podcast listeners to know that there's no better time to upgrade your home with great window nation windows. Then right now as window nation is offering to that chat podcast listeners. The more you buy, the more you save sale, save up to 50% your windows with 0% interest for five years during uncertain times. One of the best investments that you can make is investing in your home. So visit window nation dot com now to book a consultation and tell window nation that Algoldy sent you that's window nation dot com and tell window nation that Algoldy sent you. Swing it online. Drive it. Left center field by Carson Bange scoring from third baby. Here comes semi in from second around the score. Now it's a beginning for New York. Carson Bange drives it is fifth and sixth runs of the year. The meds cash in. They've scored four times here in the bottom of the fourth inning. And it's now the meds five of the nationals. Nothing. Well, the biggest bright spot for the Nats in this game was the relief pitching two Nats relievers combined for four into third scoreless innings Brad Lord two and a third scoreless innings Andre Grinillo two scoreless and hitless innings. So jobs well done by Lord and Grinillo. I wonder this Paul to bony. I'm sure he thinks about all kinds of situations and scenarios and contingency plans, et cetera. If the Nats did say take let tell out of the rotation or put them on the injured list or something like that. Who would be the next man in the rotation? You know, would it be an Andrew Alvarez or Riley Cornelio? Would it be a Mitchell Parker? Would it be a Brad Lord? You know, seeing Brad Lord do as he did in this game. I know we've talked about him providing value as a long man out of the bull pen. But I wonder to what extent Brad Lord who we saw do well as a starter last season is a candidate to be a starting pitcher this season. My hunch is that they really at this point are looking at Lord and Parker as relievers and believing they have value there. And that maybe they are better pitching in those kind of three innings stints as opposed to trying to ask for five or six out of them. And so I would think if they did make a move, it's more likely to be Alvarez or Cornelio as a true starter than it would be one of the other guys. Now you can always pair them up and have two guys together and try to fill the innings that way. I'm just not sure this front office is convinced that either Lord or Parker is going to be able to sustain success beyond three, four innings tops. And I don't think that's necessarily wrong. I think what we've seen ourselves suggests that they are probably better in those roles. Now you have a need in the rotation. So maybe sometimes you say, yeah, we know he's not probably good enough to be a full time starter in the long run. But right now he's better than what we got in there. I get that line of thinking if that's what they are thinking. But you do have some other young somewhat promising starting options. I think I'd rather keep those two in a role where they're having some success in a part of your pitching staff that needs all the help it can get also in the bullpen and then take a shot at one of the young starters in the rotation. Again, I don't think anything's happening here in the immediate future. But if that time does come, my hunch is that they would go with one of the younger starters and leave Lord and Parker where they are. So we most of the time on the podcast have fairly expansive discussions about how the nets do offensively in a given game. I don't know that there's much to say about what happened on Tuesday night. The nets in this game, no runs, just three hits, all of which were singles, just two walks, oh for one with runners in scoring position, 11 strikeouts, like there just was nothing happening offensively with the nets in this game. The met's starting pitcher was clay homes. He tossed six scoreless innings with six strikeouts versus one walk. The nets offense has cooled off a bit. This is going to be very significant to follow here off the just torrid start. The offense now just 14 runs over the last five games. But man, this was just a nothing happening game for the nets offensively. Yeah, and what I'd be curious is is it that once they were down by eight runs, they just kind of phoned it in the rest of the way or were they just not going to do it at all. Now clay homes, good starting pitchers, having a really good start to his season. And he had the meeting out of his hand. He pitches down at the knees and below. And they were reaching for everything that you saw. How many ground balls, the weak contact that he had. He was on cruise control throughout the game. So you acknowledge some of that that they were going up against a really good pitcher. But you pointed this out. It's five games now that they have gone pretty cold at the plate. And that's not always against elite pitching. They really didn't do much against the white socks over the weekend, nor in at least the last game against the braves. I think this scored two runs in that one. So this lineup that was, you know, one of the most productive in baseball over the last week or so it has significantly cooled off. You're not seeing them draw the walks. You're not seeing them hit with the same kind of authority that they have been. I want to see if that can come back. I think we all understood. Are they going to be one of the top two or three lineups in baseball all season long? No, probably not. But you'd like to think they weren't going to just regress all the way back to the bottom of the pack, which is what they've been for the last week. Or so I would like to think that there's some kind of middle ground there for them. You know, James would not quite the same C. J. A. Rames not quite the same here lately and a lot of the other guys aren't doing a lot either. And so I think these next couple games are really really important for them in that regard. You turn this into a seven, eight, nine, 10 game offensive slump as a team that becomes more concerning than just a handful of games. - Yeah, and I said this a few episodes ago, but I think the number one question when it comes to the specific in season scenario here, is this offense real or is this offense about to come crashing back down to Earth? Is there about to be some big time market correction? And we'll just have to see. We got an email from our friend James Varner saying, "The match should be buyers, not sellers." I love that. I would love for that to be the case, but that's predicated on the offense being legit, because I think we all understand, the offense is gonna lead the way. If this team has some stunningly successful season, it's gonna be on the back of the offense, not on the pitching. The offense, you know, we gotta see how real this was, what we saw over the first few weeks here, but yeah, lately the offense has cooled off. (upbeat music) And there are always a few games that you point back to, like, gosh, I wish we could have won those, but on the ball, I thought it's not the team really competed during the strategy, and the reference to the offense, and the offense, pretty aggressive, bringing guys up. So on the ball, like, it's not we played fine, but hopefully we can continue to push forward in the tactics. So, Paul Taboni, really good that you guys got a chance to talk to him, and before we get into more of the specifics, you know, you noted this in a text to us shortly after the session, that this is gonna be a regular thing, and I think we should highlight that, because Mike Rizzo and his latter days, as Nats president of baseball operations, and general manager, basically stopped talking to the media on the record. His sessions with reporters were few and far between, you basically could count them on one hand over the course of a year. You know, it was never more glaring than on the day on which the Nats shockingly demoted CJ Abrams late in the 2024 regular season, that Rizzo did not talk to you guys at all. That to me was a major derelection of duty by Rizzo. Now contrast that with Taboni, who apparently is gonna be doing this on a regular basis with you guys, huh? - Yeah, that's the intention going in, that, you know, about once a month or so, he had spoken on opening day in Chicago, and then again at the home opener in DC, he had not done it since even though he is around, he hasn't made all the trips. That's been one noticeable thing so far. He's had a lot of stuff going on back in DC. I think he's also been traveling some, maybe some scouting that's been involved. So he hasn't been on every trip, but I think he does want to make himself available and give his thoughts on the state of things and give us the opportunity to ask him about things. So I appreciate that, you know, there were times earlier in Mike Rizzo's tenure, where that was a common thing, or even if it wasn't a formal group session, you could pretty much get him anytime you needed, you know, on the field during batting practice, if you had a couple of questions form, and he would do that, and as you noted, it really probably post COVID, and certainly as the rebuild began, became much, much less common with him. So I applauded from Taboni. I'd like to think it's something he's gonna do more both in good times and bad. He didn't necessarily say anything that was earth shattering. There wasn't something he wanted to get off his chest or make some big pronouncement of anything. He was just kind of making himself available for whatever questions we had, and he answered them, I think, to the best of his ability. And I don't think there's a major headline that came out of it other than the fact that he did talk, and dressed, you know, several of the topics that we've all been thinking about and talking about here for the last few weeks. - All right, regarding three notable nets, who surprisingly, to varying degrees, got demoted to Triple A Rochester prior to opening day. Outfielder's Dylan Cruz and Robert Hassel III and Katja Harry Ford. All three guys are having issues so far, at least if you go by the results that. Some of the process stuff for some of these guys isn't too bad, but Cruz has an OPS of 6.93. Hassel has an OPS of 6.94. Ford has an OPS of 5.29. What did Taboni have to say about what's going on with these guys? He specifically was asked about Cruz and Ford. Hassel's name didn't come up, I don't think. What he essentially said was, he sees some good signs in some of the process. In Cruz's case, the walk rate, and the defense and the base running, which as he said, like nobody should be surprised by. - He's progressing well. He's walking at a higher cliff, and I think he permits a pitch selection and have been largely a good thing. I think the next step for Dylan is like, okay, when he is led in fly in the zone, then he's squaring pitches up, and driving them for damage. And so he's been great in terms of just how this will look. He's stayed to the process. And also just from a defense base running standpoint, he's been awesome, which is a surprise to anyone. So I'm really excited about the strikes, he's been, the strikes is going to be a big goal for him. - He noted that both of them are just not attacking the baseball and hitting it hard, or producing big hits the way that both of them would expect to. And that's kind of a big deal. You can mention all the other positive things that signs of things are doing, but ultimately this game is about hitting the ball hard, and they're not doing that right now. So I think for anybody who's thinking themselves, oh, we're days away from one of these guys getting called up or both of them getting called up, I don't think so. And I don't think their promotion, whenever it happens, is really gonna have much to do with what the other guys and the big leagues are doing at that time. You could certainly make the argument that they need help at the catching position. Ruiz and Millis offensively have been pretty bad so far. But they're not just gonna call up Harry Ford, certainly when his numbers are just as bad, and they're at AAA, they need to see some real evidence from him that he's on a sustained run that says, yes, I should be in the big leagues right now. And I think the same applies to Cruz. Now there's less of a need in the outfield when you have Wood and Lyle going pretty well. Jacob Young, I know offensively, it's still nothing great, but he is hitting the ball harder, and there's decent signs of stuff, and we know how good the defense is. And Joey Weemer has cooled off dramatically. He had a big hit the other day, or an Enduro walk, I think in a big spot, against the White Sucks, but he hasn't done it, come anywhere close to what he did that first week of the season, which I think is no surprise at all. So maybe you could see that happening at some point. But again, if Dylan Cruz has an OPS that starts with a six at AAA, they're gonna not feel like they're in any kind of rush to bring him up here. They want those guys to force the issue before they make that move. And right now neither of them is. Cruz's slugging percentage is just 351. The unbase is 342, but to the point about him not hitting balls, hardy slugging, just 351. And man, it's hard not to be worried here about Dylan Cruz. Like him getting option to triple A now, you look back on it as surprised as we all were. I wonder how long that was in the mind of Paul Taboni. Because it seems like Cruz is a mess. It seems like this guy needs a lot of work. I wonder if Taboni maybe earlier than anyone realized was like, this isn't working. This isn't happening. We know that Cruz had the really bad exhibition season and that this is a bigger problem than anyone anticipated and that there is a much bigger fix that is needed than anyone anticipated. And if all of that is the case, I mean, how are you not nearing panic mode with Dylan Cruz? He was the number two overall pick, okay? He was said to be a major league ready player with the wonderful career he had at LSU. And here he is now languishing for triple A Rochester. I don't know that you can overstate how disappointing that is. - Yeah, it absolutely is. And I think the thing we have to keep pointing out and remembering is he has yet to really dominate at any level of the minor leagues, let alone the major leagues. Certainly not at the upper levels of the minor leagues. And it speaks to the fact that he was probably rushed. And it was more about the pedigree and James Wood coming up and having success and the organization wanting to tout that the rebuild was finally going in the right direction and they were producing their own quality homegrown players again. And I don't know if the story would have been different for Dylan Cruz if he had just stayed a AA while longer until he had really mastered it. Maybe it wouldn't have. But I think we have to remember it's been a while since this guy was a dominant player at any level. And that is concerning. I can only imagine all the thoughts going through his head. As I said in spring training, it wasn't just the performance. He just kind of looked lost. He looked like he wasn't confident in himself the way he walked around. And that was why we questioned, like is it the right move to send him down or is that only going to make it worse? And they all said that they thought he was mentally strong enough to handle that and that he would be better for it. And maybe he will be. And we're not seeing these games. We don't see him playing every day. So it's hard to know other than what the numbers say and what people tell us about how he's doing. But if you're looking for a sign that says, hey, Dylan Cruz is on the right track. He's getting closer. He's going to kind of force the nationals to finally make that move and bring him back. There's just no evidence of that so far happening. Number two overall pick in 2023. This now is 2026. He should be thriving at the major league level right now. That he isn't is really disappointing. You know this one these deals where where we've talked so much about Mike Rizzo and the bad drafting. Everyone was like, "Yeah, Dylan Cruz number two overall pick makes total sense." So this isn't one of these deals where you're like, "Mike Rizzo blew it with that pick. Anyone else would have taken Dylan Cruz at number two, or at least most anyone else would have taken Dylan Cruz at number two." Wouldn't it be something if the entire industry was wrong about this guy? And again, he was spoken of like a sure fire hit, like someone who can't miss a guy who many other drafts would have been the number one overall pick. And here he is nearly three years after he was drafted and he's struggling for AAA Rochester. Right. This was the industry consensus. This was not an how it will hire on the nationals part. And anybody else could have found themselves in the exact same position right now. So it tells you there is certainly talent there. I don't think the whole industry could have whipped to that extent, but it does tell you that he probably wasn't as finished of a product as a lot of people thought that coming out of LSU was not as close to Big League Ready as maybe you would have liked to think. And that the development process that they had for him did not go well, but they did not do it the right way. Whether that's the actual coaching of it or the speed with which they advanced him through the minor leagues, it did not work. And now they're trying to clean that up and fix it. And I don't want to give up on them entirely. I know you said it's been three years. Okay. There's a lot of guys who didn't really make it in the big leagues for far more than three years after they were drafted, even guys out of college. So I don't want to completely throw that out the window. But you just want to see some sign at this point, something that makes you say, okay, he's got it. He's got something that looks like he's making some real strides, whether that's an overall of his swing or just some tweaks, whatever that is, we just have not actually seen that yet. No. And you wonder if you have to give up on what the hope was, which was that he was going to be a franchise cornerstone type player. Because usually if you are that guy, you show that you are that guy fairly quickly. And the fact that he's so far from having displayed being that guy makes you save yourself. All right. Do we just need to totally recalibrate what we're hoping for here? And when does this become a salvage operation as opposed to, hey, this guy can still be a big time piece? I mean, you certainly don't give up on him. And there are many paths to guys being really good players. But you look at where we are right now and clearly it's disappointing. Did Taboni strike you as overall being pleased with how the team has done so far? Yes. I think he's pleased with the effort. I think just coming off this 17 game stretch, like we were all talking, I think he's pleased with that. Also acknowledging that there were some games along the way that they felt like they showed a one, whether that was the bullpen or defense or base running or whatever it may have been, that they have left some wins on the table. And in a strange way, I think that does show that the bar has been raised, that there is an expectation level that maybe they didn't all expect coming into this first year of the new operation. And that maybe they are a little closer in his mind to being a successful contending team than maybe he believed they would be at this point. So I think he is pleased with a lot of the stuff they've done. I think he's real pleased with the way that Blake butar and the coaching staff, how they've both dealt with in game situations, but also how they've dealt with the preparation of these guys and getting them ready for each game. He also talked about all the roster churn that we've been seeing here lately and describing that as this kind of balance between wanting to find the best matchups and give them the best opportunity to win each game while at the same time not losing sight of the larger development story. And we asked about, in particular, Andrew Alvarez and Riley Cornelio because they were both called up, they both pitched in relief. Alvarez did great. Cornelio did not do great. They both get sent down immediately. Is that for their benefit, is that going to harm them and Taboni really stressed the importance of the experience that they just want these guys who they believe are going to be a part of their future to get a taste of it, to see what it's like both prior to the game with everything goes on in the preparation for it and then actually out there on the mound in a big league stadium dealing with all that. And while it in Cornelio's case did not go well, of course, he does feel like the experience will pay off when he's back up here and he used the turn that will be back up here sooner rather than later. And we'll see how that all plays out. But that didn't strike me as, okay, we got our glimpse at him and we're not calling him back up anytime soon because we don't think he's ready for this. So I'll be interested to see how that all plays out. But he really did make it sound like he thought there was a much more benefit to bringing those guys up, even if it was just for one game, even if the results didn't turn out the way they wanted them to. Coming to for the Nats at the Mets Wednesday night at 710 Kade Cavali will be the Nats starting picture. You can hit us up on exit Nats underscore chat. You can find us on Blue Sky at Nats chat podcast. You can email us Nats chat podcast at gmail.com. A thank you to our friend Melissa Cohen who emailed us some great pictures of her and her dog Phoebe at city field where it was bark in the park night on Tuesday night. And Melissa being a proud Nats chat podcast warrior war her Nats chat podcast t-shirt. So thank you Melissa and thank you Phoebe for reping the podcast at city field on Tuesday night. And if you would like to purchase a Nats chat podcast t-shirt, check out our website Natschatpodcast.com on nationals radio highlights on Nats chat courtesy of 1067 the fan for Mark's government on Malgoldi. We thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next time on the Nats chat podcast. With the number two pick in the 2023 M.O.B. draft, the Washington Nationals select Dylan Cruz and outfield their from Alistair. The Detroit Tigers had the next pick.