Listener Stories: Vol. 117 featuring. For Better And Worse

I've told you guys before that I got Alison, well, I tried to surprise Alison with this cobblestone fireplace for the house, and I got it from Wayfair. It's very, very cute, very witchy, very spooky. I feel like underneath the right thick ceiling beams, real or fake. It would look incredible, and by the way, those beams were also on Wayfair. But now it has been moved into what will be the spook easy of our house, and I'm not allowed to see what they're doing in their house, and her parents have been working on that day in and day out, and I know that the fireplace has become like the centerpiece that they're working the whole thing around. So I'm very excited to see how it turns out. Wish me luck. I'm hoping it's going to look as spooky as promised. I will take pictures when I finally can see what's going on. All I know is that that fireplace became the focal point of the entire room. 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This is a paid advertisement insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not insured and is not engaged in the business of insurance. If you've ever taken a look at me and you've gone, wow, look at him, the funniest person you ever met. And well rested, what is your secret? I'll tell you, it's my Helix mattress. I feel like I'm on a cloud in heaven. It is the comfiest thing in the world. I actually really hate that I'm sitting right here when I know if there's a Helix mattress right next to me and I could be horizontal in that. You just got to go over to Helix right now. Get yourself a mattress. It will be the best sleep you've ever had, the best nap I take a nap every day because I just love that thing so much. The one sleep isn't enough. 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Welcome to the July listener episode that sounds shocking in my ears, but we're apparently at this point when this comes out more than halfway through the year. We have two very special guests from our lovely parapods network. We have for better and worse. This is Rachel and Jerry are here to help us dig into some skeptical ghost story relationship slash ghost story slash I didn't prep this part. Sorry, the ad living stomach. You know, you're doing great. You're keep it. I started to run out of steam and I couldn't find an entry and exit point. So, yeah, go ahead. Now we are going to be doing for our July listeners. We, and by we, I mean, Eva, of course, as always, has picked out some wonderful stories for us, but the theme this time around is going to be relationships that you might be in with people that are either if you're a believer, they're a non-believer. Like a skeptical vibe. Yeah, and because as you have heard, Christina and I say for many moons now, we are unfortunately in a devastating blow with skeptics. And it has made our dynamics with a very interesting across. We bear every single day. It's absolutely because isn't your house haunted. Oh, yeah, and my. I would think you know, but here's what I'll tell you he believes it more than anyone else. He's just like, I don't want to know or think about it. I'm like that. I'm like that. There's a ghost in my house. I've chosen to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's more like that where I've just learned like, oh, it's not that he doesn't believe it at all. It's more that he's just like, I'd rather not even consciously think about it. Yeah, you know, that's better than what I'm dealing with over here because Allison is just like, oh, she is a full blown skeptic. Every time I think there's a good, my job is ghosts. She goes, so your job's imagination, I guess. It's a creative. Wow. And it's, I think it is very, as we mentioned in our emails, it's very apropos to be doing this episode with you because the two of you have one of these dynamics. And also, well, tell us about your podcast. That's more, that's more on theme, I think, of why we're talking about that. So that whole chestnut. I was going to say, I don't know if it's worse to be in a relationship with someone who is a skeptic or in a relationship with someone who so deeply believes but is so afraid of it that they're like, I don't want to know. I know which one it's the one I have, I think, because I took Blaze to a Tyler Henry Hollywood medium show recently. Actually, he took me for it was a Valentine's gift and he did it. He did it because I said, I want these tickets. Yeah, and so he took the hint and he took me and we walked out and I said, oh, so what do you think? And he said, I didn't know that there's something after we die. And I went, and he said, no, I'm serious. I had no idea. I just thought, like, we were computers and you just turned off when you died. And I said, huh? And you now, like, believe that. And he's like, where have you been? And I said, we'll have it. You always like, no, not deep down. He's like, no, I just needed to see that. And now I understand. And I was like, what's kind of sick brain? Maybe it's a healthy brain. I can't really fall. I love them. I said, as Blaze is incredible. He just has like, I had to see a real long fictional game on your body. He needed to see a medium with his own eyes. And he's like, oh, shit. That guy's really talking to dead people. They can't come back. I don't like him or herself. Yeah, I know. I'm like, hello. Okay. But all right. And I think he believed it. But he was just like, I just didn't really understand and now I understand. So I guess there's growth there. Whereas with Allison, I feel like she's put her foot down and said, I don't think she is crazy. As someone who like, I've said this to Jerry, I feel like some people are just more sensitive to the energy. I have a theory that like it kind of runs in family lines. And I'm a person that's like pretty like I'm a pragmatist. Like I'm just like, okay, I take like data and I, you know, that's blazing. Yeah. So many people believe in it. Like so many people have like first hand experiences or like. So because of that, it has to be true. Yes. And can I say something to only one of those experiences has to be real for something crazy to be happening. Do you know what I mean? Like even if 95% of the people telling ghost stories, they're like wrong or misconstrued or like didn't understand if 5% of those stories are true. Like there's ghosts, baby. Right. That's how we get laws. We only get small percentage of time for us to need to make a change. Exactly. Well done. What a slam dunk way to end that. Talk about a rebuttal. I feel like if we were on debate team, we'd be so proud of ourselves. And then like we'd immediately lose like some of the other team would say that and we'd all go. That was smoked smoked them. And I rest my case. Your honor goes to real goodbye. And there's no real honor. You don't even get it. Like they're your honor. Are you going to me went to the New York star house because the ghost was bothering our daughter and our daughter at the time was two. And she was calling she has a cubby in her room, which we thought, oh, so cute, such a cute little cubby. But she would call it Papa's room. Oh, no. And you do have a grandpa in her life that she, you know, we call him Papa. He'd never been in that cubby. It seemed a little odd. Also, it wasn't a figure in her life at the time that he was around often, like probably like once a month, you know, like, you're like, OK, Papa's. Different Papa. But I didn't feel anything negative until we were having some negativity. We're having some negativity right after my youngest was born. And we called in the ghost. Did you mean negativity like from the spirits or you're saying you had negativity like in your family life? I feel negative about Papa. Like she didn't feel like it was making her have bad dreams or anything. But then she got scared. But then she started getting scared. Oh, so it became more negative. Okay. Yeah. Whoa, whoa, whoa. - That's not cool, Papa, I'm on down from that. You can live in this house, I'm fine with that. But don't be rude. So then we called the Ghostbusters and we had a consultation. And to be fair, very honest, he was like, well, one of two things could happen. We can go in, we can try to talk to the entity, see what's up and invite it to leave, or it could ramp up the activity. (laughing) I don't know if there's no in between. I'm just going to ask you to leave. And I'll do my best. Because more activity sounded, we don't need that. War of dying to me. - And I as someone who has minimal expertise in this, but I would usually assume that by talking to it at all, you're just, even if you're trying to get rid of that, just trying to get activity by, by giving it the intention or by giving it permission to talk, all of a sudden, or to make contact. I feel like it's just inviting it to leave. Like it could decline in the nation. - I don't like that. I think you need to go in there. - Or forceful. - Say this is my house. - Well, bye. - Bye, Papa. Get out of your cubby, you little creep. - And also I'm wondering, is this thing like a, if Papa is real, if Papa is something that she's saying? Is it like just an old man that, so she's assuming, oh, his name is also Papa, or is this like a doppelganger pretending to be Papa? - I was gonna ask. Because in that way, she feels safer. - Or is it an assimilation thing where all old men are Papa? - We've tried to get the bottom of it. - How old is she now? - Three. - Okay, okay. - And she's still, it's funny. She still calls it Papa's room. - Which is just like, okay. - I hate the best duck. - It's an active case. - That's the way you asked him to leave. - I'll probe about it. - Like, oh, have you seen Papa lately? And so, she just seems disinterested. - A lot of the time in the conversation. So I'm taking that as a win. - I don't know if that's a win though, because she is having night terror. She's struggling to sleep, and her not wanting to talk about it might just be. - Okay, can I, as someone with a four-year-old daughter who I was prepped for, and he and all, like Papa Cubby's like, oh, there's someone in the corner. Like, I was, I was fucking ready, and I was like, I live in a house from 1865. Like, some shit's gonna go down. And I was ready, not a single word. And I've just thought, well, that's weird. And maybe she's like, totally closed off. I think it's the same thing that Blase has, because I have asked her before. Like, she has mentioned some weird things. Like, sometimes she'll say something like, where is she going? Like, end point up the stairs, and I'm like, uh-uh. You know, so they're like weird moments, but when I ask her anything about like her room or the house, she, like, kind of completely shuts down. And is like, I will not entertain this conversation. And it's so weird, 'cause like, I've never presented anything as scary, like, we don't, you know, watch anything. And she, it's so weird, she's very like insistent. And she has said since she was a little baby, I don't dream, I don't close my eyes when I sleep, I don't have nightmares, I don't have good dreams, I just lay there, and I see nothing. And I was like, what the hell? So I don't know if it's like she has seen things and is scared to talk about it? Well, he says that who, all he says when he sleeps, he leaves his eyes open. And he's like, what the fuck is going on? Are they astral traveling? No, I'm laying next to him and his eyes are very much closed. Christine, I think we talked about this because they talked about this. We talked about astral projecting and how we used to fly down the stairs and like, kind of like go through all these kids. Yeah. And I don't know if that's what he means when he says I don't sleep my eyes are open. I can't believe that. He feels like he's wandering the house, but he's my kid who doesn't talk about spirits where my other son, Forest, is he wants to walk about. That's interesting. Because I always have a feeling if I have a reason to never met. See, like I know if I have a second kid, I feel like that's the one who's going to be like, oh, you know, but Leona for some reason was like, I don't think so. And so she and Blazer are like, we're actually not going to go there. And I'm like, what is happening? It's so weird. I've never felt sensitive to it, but my husband Josh has. Like he remembers living in one of his mom's house when he was growing up and like, not going in the house. Like he would play outside. He hated being in there. Like hated visiting did not get. So he has gotten confused through all of this because he's just like, I don't sense any negativity. So it's like specifically pointed towards LC. Right. Or, you know, no, it's just, yeah, I don't know. But the nightmares have gone down quite a bit. Well, that's good. We did do assault ring around, you know, we did. Yes, I was fucking terrified. This is how I expected Christine's mother to go. You're feeding your newborn in their room, okay? And hearing your other, you're not even two-year-olds say, "Stop, I don't like that." Ah! Like, I would literally, I don't know what I would do. I don't know. Salt it up. I get it. Salt it up. Yeah. Salt it, laying paper back down and going in. It'll see me like, are you okay? And then salt bay all day. Come with me. Sprinkle, sprinkle a little salt. Yeah. Oh my God. So is that, that's not happening anymore now, though? No, like nothing negative or like dramatic. Because after that experience of like that like activity, but what's funny is it probably was like quite around, like Halloween time, if I think about it. Piper was a newborn. He got more excited. Yeah, I was more excited. It was what was play time. That was play time. It was scary. Keep making it worse. I'm sure it keeps making it worse. Yeah. Our podcast is nothing about onion. No, that way. No, that way. It's fun to hear these stories because Rachel's not a skeptic, but she's not, I don't have enough firsthand. If you don't have enough firsthand experience, you normally don't talk about it. And so you were just like observe and collect data. And I also played it. Like I think about people who like love scary movies and love it. Like I don't need any of that living in my head. Yeah, ever. It's scary. Mm hmm. It is scary, though. What's crazy though is that I started this episode assuming that you are a total skeptic. And yet you're the only one who's come in hot with a story that like actually is fucking horrifying. And you're like, but I mean, I'm thinking about it practically. And I'm like, I would not be. But OK. You know, wild, you know, the reason we started this, Rachel had actually started it years ago with her friend, Jess, as someone who was wanting to create content that she needed to hear herself after she got in a divorce. And so you had gotten a divorce. Jess had just, she was a newlywed. So it was the dynamic of 20s and 30s of like what's going on. And Jess had some really hard things happen in her life, like back to back to back. And she was like, hey, I got to go. I can't process this shit on the internet. And so after like a two year hiatus, I was like, you know what? You got remarried. I'll get a divorce. And then I'll be the divorced one of the book for the content. Yeah. And for the story, yeah, I did it for the bit. My children will. I'm sure they will. I'm sure they will. Wow. So it hasn't got to be relatively new, right? Doing it again. And yeah, the new reboot kind of exactly. Yeah. And it's been so fun. I love podcasting. It was like a hard exit when Jess left. And, you know, we've kind of talked about that. Like how, you know, it felt like a relationship, you know, ending whether like I wasn't mad and I wasn't, you know, anyway, but like obviously there was that disappointment. But then getting the opportunity to start it again with Jerry and, you know, Jerry and Jess are very similar, like level friends, like met in a similar way. Her and Jess are similar age, like all of that. So it's been really fun to restart it and to, I don't know, shift things in a way that like I wanted to at the time. I didn't, and I even think the premise of the podcast being called for better and worse a lot of times we were also in the wedding industry. So we met because we were wedding photographers and a lot of times in vows, people say for better or worse and a lot of times and is the word because it's a lot like happening all at once. It's not an or situation. It's always an end. Ah, and I just loved that's why when I, when it was done, I was like, it can't be done. There's no, John with it. So when I was going through my divorce and then I quickly was into another relationship actually by this point in time, I will be married for a second. Yeah, oh my gosh, it's, that's whenever you said July, I was like, oh my gosh, I'll be married for two months at this. Josh, well, congratulations. Congratulations. Yeah, but even in the, the exit of Jess, I think for better and worse is not just about marriages, it's about all kinds of relationships. And I think you and Jess went through a big worse, just went through a worse and her own personal life. And then having to navigate that with your friendship as she exited and still prioritizing that relationship. Um, and then when we went to Jess and asked for her blessing to start it again. That was another opportunity for us as a group of friends to kind of like navigate those things. And just it's very hard being an adult, especially an adult woman, and navigating relationships and friendships, and having a really core support group. And so kind of wanting to give people that our look at the corner of the internet. - So cool. - It's the heart of it. - It's just delightful. I watch all the clips on Instagram too. Like I just think you guys just crack me up. So thank you. - You're a delight. You're a delight, you're both a delight. - Wow, well we're so happy to have you here. And we're gonna read on that note stories that you've picked about like people in relationships. And as we all, I was gonna say hinted at, but as we just like totally, what's the opposite of hinting at? - Bulldozed. - Bulldozed. - Bulldozed is the theme of skeptic partners. (bell dings) - This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace Domains. We have you Squarespace since we started the podcast almost 10 years ago. Actually, in the Schultz-Worth manner, we now have two family members using Squarespace because Allison and her jewelry business, Fortress Craft, just started using Squarespace themselves. She was like, "I really need a website." And I said, "We've never had a problem with Squarespace. You gotta use them." With Squarespace, your domain comes with everything included from the moment that you register. You get every feature, every tool, everything you need to manage, everything for your website. Just in one place from email forwarding to domain renewals. You don't have to worry about going elsewhere for any of it. It's all in one spot. And now you can not just secure your domain without any extra fees. When we were starting our website, it like cost all this extra money just to have the rights to the name or to the URL. But Squarespace has that handled. And your domain includes advanced built-in security and privacy protections with an activity log. So you know everything that's going on on your website at all times. You just want to wonder when something changed at all. And with Squarespace, you also can unlock a full suite of tools, not just the website builder, but email campaign scheduling, all of that from, again, just one place. It's really wonderful. We love Squarespace. We have been singing their praises for a long time. And that's because for the last 10 years, they have only gotten better and better and better. So please go check them out. Check out squarespace.com/strengthforfreecharile. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code drink to save 10% off your first purchase of a domain. (drink buzzing) But this is from Nikki, who uses she/her pronouns. Thank you for analyzing pronouns. And the subject line is, "Help me tell my skeptical husband "I'm a psychic." (drink buzzing) Okay, so. - It means you're fine. - It's, I was also-- - I knew you'd like it. It's a bit of a, as Eva put it, a dear Abby situation. - Nothing even happened yet. And I got goose bumps. (laughing) My husband's like, "I love filling men there wrong." - I can't, I know. - Oh, Jerry's like fucking chomping at the big here. - Well, I don't even, I don't even have to read this. - Yeah, I didn't, Jerry read it. (laughing) - Okay, here we go. Long time listener, first time caller, my name is Nikki. And the skeptic in my life is my cis male husband. And then of course she puts go figure. This is a long story and I love to yap. I know you can relate, so I'm gonna get right to it. First, let's address the subject line. Yes, you read that right. I think I might be a little psychic. I say think because it's kind of new, well not new exactly, but it's like I just became aware of it again, if that makes any sense. I've had intuitive feeling since I was very young. I also totally saw spirits when I was a kid, including the hat man. - Cool. - But I digress. I eventually grew out of it like so many of us do. I also have some wishness on my mom's side of the family. My grandma used to tell stories about how her father could cure warts with the touch of his hand. - No, that means you have to touch someone's warts though. - Yeah. - You've got more fun with your hands? - Yeah. - Maybe you have a lot of fun. Don't yuck his yum, you know? - Yeah. - Well, I mean there's so many things that could be cured. Can we maybe try and focus on? - I've not even ever heard a good start. - Well, Jerry, can you heal a wart? 'Cause once you can heal a wart, maybe then you can talk about what level of healing you're in. - Okay. - What time do I have? - It's well, okay. Here's my wart. Hold on. - Once you can heal a wart though, I'm mad that you can't heal other things that feel less hard to cure. Like what about zits? Like you can't handle my acne. - Oh, maybe he could. Maybe he just like had, maybe warts were like his expertise. - Or maybe wart was just like. - People came from all or everything. - People came from all around the world. - Yeah, maybe wart's came. - He did, especially the war. - Yeah, we had a planter's wart. - Roodle. - Can I tell you, I have one right now. I'm not even joking. - You're totally right. Maybe he can heal all things, but like one time there was like one wart, I like everyone's just remembered. They're like, that's the wart guy. - He is a wart guy, right? - He's typecast, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - He's like, I grew an arm back once, but all you guys want to talk about is that wart. - It's a wart. - So shrew, oh my God. - So, let's see. He heals warts, excellent. Story is, oh, here we get a whole story about it. The story is the wart would disappear within 24 hours after he touched you. It was a family secret that was passed down to the oldest grandchild for generations. So like, if you're the second oldest fuck you, I guess. - Yeah. - If you have a wart, don't ask any questions. - Yeah. - See, this is why it sucks Leon is the oldest grandchild 'cause she's gonna be like, I don't care and I don't believe you. And then walk away. And no one's gonna know the secret. - I don't want this burden. I didn't ask for this. - I don't have a wart, leave me alone. - Yeah. - Let's see, more family witchiness growing up, my grandma told all of us grandkids that she was a witch. But to give you a picture, my grandma was a little five foot nothing sassy lady from Texas. She was exactly what you picture. Sweet as can be, but also scary as hell. And she'd say all sorts of creepy shit to us. She'd threaten to put spells on people who upset us or do onto them if we didn't behave. Wait, hang on. Or do them on us, oh, do them on us. Do the spells on us if we didn't behave. I was like, hang on a second. - Whoa. - Then she just giggle and walk away and act like nothing happened after she's threatened to run towards her. - Classic. - She passed away in 2020, but to this day, none of us know if she was kidding or serious. So now to some of my more recent experiences, as I said, I've always had a strong intuition, but it definitely got stronger when my grandparents passed away. And they died 40 days apart. - Interesting. - 40, eight nights. - Bible. Noah's Ark. - Turning warts into wine or whatever. (laughing) - Lenter warts. (laughing) - For example, one day, a while back, I was in the shower and I got a random thought about my great uncle, Moose, which was his nickname for Morris, which I love that you made sure to tell us that. - Yes. - He was a man I met maybe five times in my life. The point is I barely knew him, so it was really random for him to cross my mind. A few days later, his daughter texted me to tell me he had passed away. Another time I had a random thought about my husband's dog, Noah, that he used to have with his ex. I met the dog once years ago before my husband and I were even dating, so I felt really random to think of, oh, Noah at the time. Same thing happened. His ex texted him a week or so later telling him that Noah had passed away. - Oh no. - Oh, they're all stopping to say bye. - Yeah. But it sounds like there are people who shouldn't really need her goodbye or want her goodbye, but maybe she's just the strongest magnet near them. - I was gonna say that happens a lot where couples will dream of their partners, like grandma or somebody, like it'll come through a different person in their life rather than directly, yeah. - Maybe to help warn them or push them low. - Like you said, the open person in the open. - Yeah, or they're like just the easiest to fly to or something, but they're available that day. - In the shower though, Uncle Moose, like, hold on, I'm in the shower. You don't need to have an opening in my schedule for Uncle Moose to say goodbye. - I'll always pencil Moose in, yeah. (laughing) - They're not all about death. The one that feels the craziest to me is that I predicted I was going to fall down some stairs. - Oh my God, but imagine after Nala and Moose, you're like, am I gonna die? And I just predicted it. That's terrible. - It feels really good if you stay fit, yeah. - Yeah, manifest your own death. - I would be horrified anytime I got a flash of anything. I'd be like, what could it mean? For weeks, me falling down, stairs kept randomly popping up into my head. I kept thinking what the fuck is that about? And then I'd go on about my day and forget all about it. One day I stumbled a little on some stairs at work and had the very clear thought it won't happen at work. - Oh, yuck. - Who is telling you this, you're higher self? - Someone who obviously like has a mouth but not arms to catch you so you don't fall. I don't know. - Well, I'm not supposed to intervene. - It's like, I'm gonna just keep horrifying you until it happens and then watch it happen. - The second you stumbled on one step, they're like, oh by the way. (laughing) - It's now, yeah. - It's not now, but it's later. - Have a nice trip, see you next fall. (laughing) - Oh, you know they were just waiting for that, that moment, yeah. - I stress the word, I stress the word clear because I have anxiety. Oh, like I heard it clear, the voice is very clear. I stress the word clear because I have anxiety and ADHD. So you know, it's loud as hell in my head. So clear thoughts stand out. I thought I was losing my damn mind and sure enough a few weeks later, I ended up falling down the stairs in my basement. Side note, I also ended up breaking my first bone, which I did not know would happen. - Oh shit. - That part was a secret little surprise for the moments. - Yeah, apparently they didn't want you to know that yet. (laughing) - There are many more I could tell you, but let me not lose the plot. I still need. your help with my husband. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That guy. That guy. As you can imagine, my husband is a typical man in the sense that he is a very logical and science-based thinker, not a bad quality to have until your wife starts thinking she might be psychic. I made offhand comments our entire eight-year relationship about being psychic or a witch and he never shoots it down, but he doesn't really buy it either. And for the last few months, I've been basically exploring and secrets. I got an orcald card deck and have been pulling a card daily. I've been working on meditating and trying to connect to my spirit guides. I also have my first raky massage this weekend and my husband knows about none of it. There's worse things you could be practicing. I know, imagine your secret life is just like healing yourself. Yeah. I wouldn't even feel guilty about it yet. I can't be like, this is just a vacay. That was just a self-tenant experience. Definitely. He's a good man and I know he loads me deeply, so I don't know what my problem is. I'm feeling so apprehensive about showing the side of myself to him. So now I come to you, Emma Christine. I'm doing Rachel. And we pass it off to two other people. Yeah. For your advice, how do I tell my very logical husband that I think I'm psychic? I'll take any advice you got. And as a side note, I moved from Texas to Pittsburgh in 2023 and I spent much of that three-day drive listening to him. That's why we drink. That's a lot of, that's a lot of you guys. It's the end of one time to shoot a wedding and I listened to the entire time. I was in a target trying to find something because I didn't pack correctly. And I learned about the backrooms for the first time. And I was like, I hate it here, but I'll be back. And you'll change. And here you are. Here you are. Yes. Well, so thank you, Nikki. What advice does everyone have? I think, for me, as someone who like, I am very practical. And it helps that like, like I said, I'm like, a lot of people have this experience. So it can't just be like bullshit, like saying something that's bullshit because you don't understand it is ignorant and dumb. Like, it just is like, don't be ignorant. But I think specifically leaning into like the spirituality aspect of it, like, spirituality is a part of every single culture on the planet. Like just because someone doesn't feel super tied to like a specific religion, like we can't deny that as the human race, we aren't drawn into some like spirituality of some kind. Something for nothing. Right. Like every literally every single early civilization on the planet had a higher belief system. Like I saw something that was like some people call it manifestation, some people call it prayer, some people call it quantum physics, some people call it like all of these things. And it's just an energy transfer. And so they're saying, but nobody is saying that it doesn't exist. No one's denying the existence of it. Just call it something different. And I think in this situation, the reason you're feeling, this is me assuming, making an ass out of you and me. I think the reason that you are so hesitant to share it is because you are still vulnerable about it. You are still in self-doubt. And so you are afraid of rejection. And I would encourage you to not give a shit because you do not have to share everything as far as like you and your partner don't have to do everything together all the time. As long as he's not being dismissive or disrespect. They don't even have to enjoy it. They don't even have to enjoy it themselves. I'm working on my spirituality. It feels something that's important to me right now. It should be enough. Again, I think the holistic view of self is emotional, physical, spiritual. And I think there's another one. But spirituality is always in there for most people to feel healthy, happy, and a full version of themselves. So if that manifests for her in drawing cards and figuring it out, like that's great. And that's special about makes you feel more connected to yourself in the world around you. Like your partner should be supportive of that. I would agree. And I would also add, I would also encourage you to not feel that you have to prove anything. Oh no, the cards really do work. I feel like when I started this kind of spiritual journey, and I was like, I wanted to prove it's not crazy. Terror really worked. And at a certain point, I realized it's not my place to convince anyone else. It doesn't work. Like I said, blazing freaking and understand that something happened after you died, till he had one particular experience and went, got it. Some people just take two things differently. I don't feel like you have to prove anything to anyone. That was all. I think you don't need him to join you. And you're not asking him to. You just need him not to. You're young. Right. Right. And you need to be able to do it freely without feeling embarrassed. Like you have to hide it because it's not something. It's more of you. And I think that's the reason why it's scary is you talked a lot in the beginning about how deeply rooted it is in your family. It feels like a core part of you that you are exploring. And that's a really scary thing to want to share with someone. Totally. And feel like they could dislike it. And so it's not that you need him. To join you. It's that you feel that he needs. If he doesn't support it, that it's a form of rejection. And it's not. Those two things need to be separate. Like again, he just needs to be able to respect that you're doing it. It's my privilege. You should be ashamed that you are doing it. Just because it's you're integrating him. I mean, not him. Yeah. The only way to have a healthy relationship is to allow like growth and change within a relationship. It's the only way that marriages, long-term relationships, partnerships last is because you allow yourself to grow and change. And I think it can feel daunting. You know, like if I picked up like roller derby, I'm sorry to get really passionate about roller derby. That's when you'd be like, okay, that's a little weird. But you are pretty aggressive and athletic. So I love it. We're perchandeling this. Yeah, you know what, good point. Rachel, because maybe the partner maybe the husband will be like, oh yeah, I totally see that. You know, who knows? Maybe you have a reaction you don't even know. Yeah. So who knows? Don't let your own like mind talk you out of things. Sometimes it likes to try to keep you safe. But the longer you don't say something, the more you feel like you're keeping something, that's when. And then it's going to feel that stuff will come up about it. Like I think keeping this from you. And then it's like, why would you, you know, so don't keep it to yourself for too long. I also would like to say before we go any further into giving advice, Rachel and I have no qualifications. Sure. I'm a bachelor's degree. I have a bachelor's degree as well. Not in counseling. I have a master's degree in management to be fair. Okay, that's good. In what? Jason, conflict management. I thought you said Catholic. Oh, my God. Yeah, she manages this Catholic every day. Yeah. I need help. Okay. Yeah. I need help. My degree is as an intervention specialist. And so when people hear that, yeah, but it was special. I'm not sure. It has nothing to do with. I was going to say we have master's degrees, but in television, like we like to write fictional shit. This is not. We're not. But people listen to our show. I know that. I was going to say, it's like, there have been a few times when people have asked me ghost hunting advice, but they're like, oh, I think I have like a demon in my house. What do I do? And I'm like, what do you do? I don't move. I don't know. I don't know. I'm like, I want to hurt. I'm free. I am I don't ask me. I first of all. Yeah. But I guess like, I've accidentally made some people think that I'm an actress. So I, uh, well, and that's the thing. People can say whatever they want and can talk about their experiences. And like, I know we talk a lot about our mental health disorders and whatever else. And I mean, I've diagnosed myself with several things on TikTok. But and that's why I think it's very important to say, like, please do not. Yeah, don't take it. I'm not comfortable. You can listen to me. I got a very good track record. I've been impeccable track record. Oh, fantastic. Okay. Don't listen to my advice most of the time. But when it comes to other people, I was going to say I said to Jerry the other day as I like psychoanalyzed one of my friends who was in a new relationship. And I was like, this is not good. This is bad news. Papa, blah, blah, blah, you know, gave her the show. It is sometimes a lot easier to figure it out. And I was like, am I psychic? And then they were like, it's probably just your like autism packer pattern recognition. I said, uh, tomato to a lot. It's always the autism. I never the psychic abilities. Yeah. Could be both. Could be both. You never know. And yeah, it is, it's always one. It's definitely us. At least, at least. Got that. All right. If you consider yourself an enthusiast of dark Victorian history, you probably already know about the age of spiritualism, the grizzly murders, the body snatchers. But I try to dig a little bit deeper. My name is Genevieve Manion, hostess of My Victorian Nightmare. If you find yourself intrigued by the salacious scandals haunted happenings and gothic poetry of the 1800s, join me every Monday for My Victorian Nightmare, wherever you find your podcasts. Who would like to read the second story? Is that a should we? Are you all reading any or are you just? Oh, yeah. Okay. So I got to pull it up. I have a whole laptop because I still have not been to the eye doctor. So I can see not to brag. It looks like we have pictures for the second story. So at some point we'll all have to. Okay, you know, take a look at the box. This is juicy. Okay, hopefully these images will even sent the pictures in a group chat for after. Okay, okay, good, good, good, good. Okay. All right. So this is, am I allowed to say their name? Yep. Okay. This is called, I will never tell my skeptic husband this story. Ooh. Hopefully he's not gonna tell us. Tell me. Tell me. That's so awkward. If he's like, so I checked in and that's why I drink this week. And what's going on? Hello, Empersey and Eba. And that's why we drink team lovers of the weird thirsty little rats for babies. And sorry, I'm a loved lemon. Yes. Okay, so long as you're not sure how we're fine. I'm tagging myself as thirsty little rat. So great. That's excellent. I'm just you can be a little more tired to finish my drink. So I might be the thirsty little rat. Okay, perfect. My name is Mac. She, her and I am a long time listener. First time writer. I saw your request for stories about skeptic partners in being a weirdo who is newly wed to a skeptic. I figured this would be a great time to share to preface. I've always had as my family calls it the touch. Can you reward? Excellent callback. Excellent. She's a professional. I would hear and see things that no one else could. I would have premonitions of the future and be able to just know when something was going to happen. This impacted me so much as a child that I even pulled my mother to the side once to speak in private about a visitor I had. I regularly get visits from my grandmother who passed when I was a toddler. Never menacing. She was just always there. Sometimes she would help me navigate hard things. Sometimes she would come with warnings. One day she warned me of a car crash. I saw her in my room. I could smell her brand of cigarette classic. I got these horrible flashes of a red car wrecked in the woods as a teenager. Maybe 11 at the time. That didn't make sense. Twineager. Oh my god. I was like teenager at 11. What happened? I don't understand what a teenager is. Okay. Twineager. No one I knew how to red car and I couldn't drive yet. About a week later around Halloween my friends and I were getting ready to go to a haunted hay ride. Right as we were getting ready to go my friend's mom got a call. The hay ride was canceled by the woman who ran it. She had just found out that her son had passed in a bad car accident. Oh my god. Grandma came to say you're not going to be able to go to the hay ride. I know. I was like one of the point. What is the message? You know we were we were bummed. We were bummed. I sure bet. Oh my god. Yeah. We thought that our fun Halloween night was ruined. It's one of those stories that at 11 it's at 11. It means one thing. But then as you get older it's slowly more central. It's not really funny anymore when you get to a certain age and you're like, I think this is a very vulnerable thing to do to admit that this is how you felt. Yeah. And we all would have been the same way at 11. We would have all been like. 100 percent. As we do. So my friends mother showed us a photo of the car that was in the crash too. I don't know force us to empathize. So they show the car to be like, oh, this. Would you rather be here? My daddy is to do that. He'd be like, oh yeah, you feel sad. Look at these starving people. And I'm like, why? Why? Why? Why was there people starving in China? Always the reason. And then when the internet came around my dad's like, I can even show you pictures of it. And I'm like, what? Okay. That's kind of weird. Okay. It was the red car my grandmother had warned me about. I told my mom all of this and she very nonchalantly looked at me in my distraught tween age eyes and said, everyone in the family has that. We didn't speak about it again. And I continued to navigate this weird ability on my own. Maybe I'll share more of my stories in the future, but let me get on with this story. Flash forward to adulthood. I meet my amazing husband and I am very clear about how I see ghosts and about my ability to just know things when we first meet. I love the upfrontness. Him being not a complete skeptic as he believes in ghosts and did not question my ghost stories, but also not a full believer. He thinks psychics are BS. He's always shrugged my visions off or reassured me when I have a bad or weird feeling that I'm just anxious. And then gets upset that I'm always right when the exact thing I said would happen. Wow. Wow. They say men. I mean, it's we're all thinking it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Even though he's skeptical, he has always been a part of all of this. For example, when he and I met my grandmother came to me the night of what should have been our first date. I had to postpone due to some life things and I was worried I wouldn't hear from him again. I was really contemplating just cutting my losses before he even got the chance to ghost me, but the familiar smell of her cigarette smoke filling the room and the happy little visions of he and I together confirmed that I had found the one and that he would stick around. And three years later, we are now married. Grandma is like, let me tell you about your long drag. He's not going to be perfect, but he'll be good enough. Yeah. I love that she's like, here's a car crash. Also, here's your beautiful marriage. You never know what I'll show up. She runs the gamut. She's like, it could be something that will affect you minimally or just so significantly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, significantly as a tween, that probably was big. Sure. You know what? It's significant at all. Yeah. I mean, it was canceled for everyone. That's true. That's true. It was a ripple effect. A lot of the people were bummed out. Yeah. Yeah. Big bummer of a day. Now I refuse to tell my husband. We eloped Halloween 2025 in a cemetery close to my first big girl apartment where we went often while dating. My grandma showed up with her cigarette. I love this. It looks like my husband is skeptic. We did get married on Halloween in a graveyard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I'll never tell him my secret. I'm not buying that. Yeah. Right. We were going to wait a while. But I just had this feeling, this push that it needed to happen that day. So we did the thing and it was beautiful. Just the two of us, we didn't tell anyone we were eloping. We invited all of our friends over to our house for a Halloween party that night and surprised them with the news when they arrived. It was a great night. And once the sun went down, we went out to the fire pit and decided to make a fire and roast the marshmallows. My friends and I were chatting as my husband walked around the border of our yard collecting firewood and sticks with a flashlight in hand. Then it was like something told me to watch him told me to check on him in the yard. I looked up from the fire and saw him at the far edge of the yard. He was bending down to pick up a stick. And as he stood up, the flashlight came up with him and what came into my view made my blood go cold. There was a woman standing right in front of him inches from his face. What did he see this one? They were nose to nose and he is over six foot tall. It felt like they stood there like that for ages even though it was probably like 10 seconds. She was terrifying. I had never seen her before. She was not my grandmother. She was pure white and a white tattered night gown with white and gray hair covering her face. I couldn't see her feet or her hands and her face was feature-less. I'm going to throw up. What is happening? I feel like there's like three white paragraphs. And then as my husband put the flashlight down to get another stick, she was gone. I sat frozen in my seat as my friends chatted to me when I finally unfroze. I excused myself to go inside. I salted and cleansed every door and window in my small house. I told no one what was going on. I lit an incense, set a little prayer, and marched my terrified ass back out to the fire pit to check on my husband who was totally fine and enjoying his fire building adventure. Just a clueless man. Thank goodness for it. Honestly for once, finally, you know, I'm just humming, humming along. For once, it's beneficial to all of us. Thank you. We installed a camera on that side of the house and I'm sorry to report that we have never caught anything on it. Don't be sorry. That's great. I'm sorry. It's okay. It's okay. I still have no idea who she was or what she wanted, but thinking about it, chills me to my bones. I will never tell my husband what I saw. This is the first time I've really even talked about it. I don't know what kind of beyond the veil, wedding present, the universe was trying to give me, but I really could have gone without that. Thank you all for making me laugh and supporting the weird kids out there. Also, my sister would kill me if I didn't give her a shout out. So Taylor, I know you're listening. Love you. I'm Taylor. Please see the attached photos of my goofy animals shadow the dog and lilyth the cat to brighten your day and a bonus photo of our wedding day so you can see how great it was. pre-freaky ask-os visit. I'm gonna look thank you. Oh, very cute. I'm trying to picture this man with a with a witchy creepy. Yeah, personally, no, no, no, no, no, for the best. I know I wouldn't say, you know, I wouldn't say either. I wouldn't, you know, remember what we said? Oh, imagine he listened to this podcast. Now, he's going to be crying if he listens. Yeah. That's so scary. Do you think something followed him home from what a cemetery? That's what exactly my thought, Jerry. Followed from the cemetery. I totally agree. Interesting. I heard you wanted a bride. Exactly. Yes, she was wearing all white corp. She probably stepped between you. You give me a kiss. No, I do. Oh, man, I just hate that. Yuck. I wonder what the I'm, although it was, I can't imagine it, it would have to be horrifying to actually see, but I feel like I'm just left with more confusion because I'm like, why is that something that the the spirits felt that you needed to see? Well, it not give you any more context. It feels like it had nothing to do with something for her part. I don't feel like it's just something that she witnessed. She just had a feeling she said something to check on my husband and she looks up and is like, whoa, something's like to me or here. But I would spiral and then I would go. Were they telling me about that? Like, how come I haven't seen any other experiences he's had with spirits that he was unaware of? Is this the only one? Hey, it's a long life. I can compare to the rest. It's a long life. You know, yeah, yeah. That's why we're in the future. And she grew taller. And she was exploded in that heat. Oh, oh, she didn't have hands or feet. Yeah, but she had terrible energy. That was that. She had terrible energy though. That's a lot of terrible energy, though. I hope no accidents. So I used to see a woman in white in my mom's bedroom. Oh, Lord. And she didn't really have a face, but she also was floating. She didn't have feet. She's looking at her face that has no features. I'm looking at this wedding. She was going, where's my fucking face? And like this person, she's like significantly shorter. I don't know. I don't know if that's I feel like if the vibe is bad. I don't want to say that. She did. She did feels sometimes I wonder like, is the vibe bad or are you spooked? Yeah. I think that's booked because the vibe is bad. Like also if you're, but if you're getting, if you're seeing your grandma and you're seeing car crashes and you're getting married in a graveyard, I feel like at that point, you kind of have a like, like if you saw ghost, you wouldn't immediately be like terrible bad, right? Like I feel like, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's like omnis. Except I guess the grandma did give the tidings of trying to be crazy. I would think I would look at my track record and be like, if most of the time what I'm seeing is something like that's a quote bummer, I would, yeah, I would put this in the bummer category until proven otherwise. I'll also say she said that they were face to face for what felt like 10 seconds. That's a long time. No, she said it felt forever, but it was probably like 10 seconds. I'm like 10 seconds is, it's like you said a really long time to be standing like this with a nothing. You know what I mean? She was terrifying. I'd never seen her before. She was pure white in a white tattered nightgown with white and gray hair covering her face. I couldn't see her feet or her hands and her face was featureless. And then as my husband put the flashlight down, she was just gone. I do, I do wonder. I wish that she in the moment had asked him like, hey, did you feel anything weird? Because for all you know, that was the only time in his life that he has also felt something odd. She could have chill in the bone. She could be buried to me. Oh God. I thought his snake was going to come up when she was like, I look up and he's in the grass with a flashlight. I was like, oh, he's going to get bit by his snake. I don't think that's that I thought there was going to be, I thought there's going to be a yard accident for a shirt like she was like totally. Oh my god. I was like, I thought grandma was going to come back, but no. You'd be faceless, lady. Okay, so this is called, oh, quiddit Susie. I don't like that. I'm out. But just the name Susie. You guys have all this one. Yeah, it's already bad. Okay, so hi, Christine for baby's amazing team at ETWD. Jerry and Rachel also. My name is Katie. She her Libra. First off, I wanted to start this by saying how much I love your podcast. Let's crack into it. My ex-wife lost her. Oh, okay. Of course, now Susie is just, okay. Oh, we like Susie. Now I'm in. Okay, got it. Yeah, I thought we'd take it back. My ex-wife lost her aunt Susie quite suddenly. She had cancer and hit it from the family until near the end of her life. It was devastating, especially for my ex-wife. A few months after her passing, a lot of paranormal activity started happening at our home, our touchlight would turn off and on. Our EMF reader would call our light and our EMF reader. That's also next to the light. That's our family EMF. This is the portable EMF get on all day. Our travel EMF. Okay, so let's see. Our touchlight would turn on our EMF reader would constantly be going off and our gas fireplace would switch on and off. It seriously freaked me out, but my ex-wife would always say, that's just Susie. The only thing that convinced me, this was not a demon, was that my dog would always act the same way. His tail would start wagging. He would go into the spare bedroom and stand on his back paws as if he wanted someone to pick him up. And she's like, I can't. She's showing his tummy. Oh, baby. She's like, I don't have hands or feet. I can't pick you up. That's the worst part about being a ghost. He said, he can't pick up any puppies. He can't even up his. Upies. Upies. Upies. Upies. Okay. The puppy up you. The puppy up you. I love it. Oh, your dog is baby. Oh, my God. If he wanted, he wanted someone to pick him up. After seeing this a few times, I started to relax a bit. However, it was getting very annoying. So we then removed the touch lamp EMF reader and blew the pilot light out in the gas fireplace. During this time, we told my ex mother-in-law, Suzy's sister, what was going on? This woman was convinced we were lying and would always roll her eyes whenever we told people. She would always make the same comment. If it's true, how come I've never seen anything? My ex mother-in-law would be at our house from time to time helping with the kids and nothing would ever happen. Until one day, my ex mother-in-law was in the doorway of my daughter's room. In the back of the room, there was an old lamp that had a switch on the cord to turn it on and off. It would always make a loud clicking noise when you did this. We were talking to my mother-in-law about more odd things that were happening and she made another comment about how we were making it all up. When we heard a loud click in the side lamp turned on, we all looked at the light for a long time. No one talked until I heard my ex mother-in-law say, "Okay, quit it, Suzy." Okay, Suzy's in the corner, middle finger. She's like, "You're sister-in-lawy." "You know you want a whimsical bitch." "Yeah, what the fuck? Live a little." Okay, quit it, Suzy. Then another loud click and the light turned off. That was the day she finally believed us. Odd things would still happen from time to time, but my mother-in-law never doubted us again. Sorry, and I have advice for the first person too. Sometimes you just need to know how to tell her husband. Sometimes you just need to ask your team, "Can you just help me orchestrate something that will work?" I feel like in this situation, it's like the mother-in-law was like, "Why don't I ever say anything?" She's bound to see something. Suzy's like, "I'll show you something." Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're failing it. Get 'em, Suzy. Quit it, Suzy. Whoever your Suzy is, just a quick get 'em. Just a give 'em. Upies. Upies. That's my favorite. Well, wonderful. All right, Rachel, would you like to do the number four? Yes. The honors. The end for you. Okay, I'm gonna get a scoochie. Scoochie scooch. Okay. Okay, this is from Christina Sheeher. Hello, and that's why we drink family. My husband Z and I are high school sweethearts. I am the spooky spiritual one, and he's the, there's an explanation for everything one. Over the course of our relationship, several paranormal things have occurred in his presence. Let me share some of the stories I have so we can roll our eyes together at this lovely clueless man. Love it. Number one. My favorite. Outright denial. I grew up in a haunted house. I experienced disembodied voices speaking in my ear and watched many transparent figures disappear around corners. I had told them. You literally shift it like you're left your your soul. It was like you're going to hang out over here. You're gonna fall into a screen shot. SSRIs are not enough for these people. Like, if you're seeing this shit, like, it's not doing enough. Speaking of SSRIs, I'm so sorry I'm derailing this. Did you forget? Well, yes, but so for the wedding, we are doing like specialty cocktails for Brady and I, like his and hers. And he's doing a jack and cook. I am doing a Paloma. But if you know anything about a Paloma, they have grapefruit in them and grapefruit as the kids don't mix. So we are doing a pineapple Paloma. You have to think about this thing. It also fucks with birth control. We don't want that on a wedding. Exactly. I'm thinking. You're on some other level. Absolutely. Okay. So, you know, disembodied voices, figures disappearing. - We're back. - Okay, I told them of these instances and more, and it's a response, but always be, I believe you've experienced something strange. - Oh, boo. - One day, you're talking about a recent experience I had, and he outright said, "I just don't think ghosts exist." He got up, he got in the bathroom, and my door forcefully swung open as he reached through the door now. - He briefly paused, turned to look at me and said, "Well, that was weird." He spent the rest of the night adding pressure to the floorboards on either side of the door and an attempt to recreate it. - Oh, stop wasting your time. - He opened windows in the room and on the bottom floor to create a draft. It did not budge to this day. - He still thinks it was all a coincidence. - Or it was a scientific method. - It is absolutely as stated outright denial. This is like, after me kidding, denial. - But I can agree with that right denial, 'cause I don't see it. Our Tony box will turn on at random times, and I'm just like, what is going on with the Tony box? - I mean, I'm the same way. - That could be proper. - I feel like if somebody sent to me, oh, this thing happens, and I feel like his answer's smacks of like, "I think youth, I believe you believe what happened." And it's like, at a certain point, I agree with you though, I am with you where I'm like, "Oh, must be a glitch, must be a lighting electrical issue "until it's like really." But the fact that he's spent an all night trying to prove it, it's like, he knows something. - You know what that, what he did reminds me of? It reminds me of when you accidentally like, move your chair and it sounds like a fart, and then you try and get it to do it again, and it won't do it again. - Yeah. - Like, I swear, it won't admit it. - It's scary, it's scary this time. Like begging for people to be on his side about it. - Okay, but this time, he did fart. He just won't admit it. Like he did, but like he did have the experience and he's like, no, approve it. And so he's trying extra hard to compensate, you know? Like he clearly knows something's up. He did fart this time. I know it. - You did fart. - For sure. That's funny. - Okay, number two. This one is legitimately scary. Great, love it. One weekend in 2022, we spent the weekend at an Airbnb in Warwick, New York to visit some wineries there. That first night, I could not shake the feeling of being watched. We went to sleep and I unfortunately experienced sleep paralysis. I was very aware that something was in the room with us but could not move my limbs to Warren Z. He sleeps like a Victorian child. So if anyone would break in, he'd rule through it. - Are they historically good sleepers? - I don't know, but I love it. - I feel like they're historically sick. - They're historically kind of almost already dead. - Sickly, yeah. - 'Cause I'm fighting with my mind to awaken my limbs. My eyes are tracking movement I cannot see. But feel, I'm concentrating so hard I start to see the shape of a young woman. I feel immediate thought that she died here that her body is nearby and we should be wary of our host. - Yes. - All I want is my feeling comes back and I shoot up in bed. Movement seemed to startle her and she shot across the room. Climb to top the dresser and into the closed vent. Why did that notice was on my side of the room? - I was wondering why you paused. And I was like, what's going on here? - There was a lag, but I'm like, God. - Hey, I'd like to not read any more. - No. - So I'm going to get the worst one. - The rental to the main house where our host was currently staying. - Shut the fuck up. - I sobbed for you. - I want to crawl out of my skin right now. - I don't want to be here. - This is a movie script, this is penis. - I sobbed in fear and turned on all the lights roughly shaking Z away. He tried to comfort me saying it was just a nightmare but she knocked off my bracelets and engagement ring. I left on the trinket tray in the center of the dresser and they were lying on the floor. I could knock for the rest of the night 'cause every time I would get comfortable, I would stare at the vent and it felt like she was just outside my view watching me back. - Oh my god. - I don't even like writing this. I could dip it together with that. - Yeah. - Okay. - Is that what it says, that's fucking, I mean, wow. - So that's the worst signly that I just had a nightmare and that my jewelry must have slid off themselves. - Z, I've honestly had a moment to force. I would be like, you have to be, I'm worried I can't. - I'll send you home to be on my side. - I'll send you my lawyer's information. - Right, that's my advice. - I mean, even here that racket was beyond me. But men, I guess. That is number three, this is the last word. There's a third word. - There's another one. - I really, I don't want to do it anymore, actually. - We still have beef about this. - The reason I don't want you to keep going is because I feel like I, if I'm writing this, I would have saved the worst for last. And that's pretty much exactly what I think I can't go on. - I mean, she's going in order of events, yeah, chronological. - The last experience was maybe a year or two ago. Our apartment is directly in between two cemeteries. And one night I saw the shape of a man standing at the foot of our bed. Z is already asleep and I was just settling in for the night. I saw the shape, I screamed. I'm shaking Z and screaming. Not once, breaking my gaze from what I assumed at the time was just a random man in our room. Z was throwing, there's a man where? Well, he's slowly putting on his glasses, mind you. By the time he's up, the shadow man disappears. And I smack Z with my pillow. If there had been a person there, you would have had that. We would have been goners. Luckily, it was just a ghost. But it pissed me off so much that it just stood there watching us stayed as Z was waking up and then pieced out before he could actually get his eyes on. I yell at him about this frequently, LOL. Thank you so much, thank you so much for taking the time to read the frustrating accounts of my husband's disbelief. I'll be sure to update y'all if that ever changes. Thanks for laughing scares, much less. It sure better. I don't know who I'm more mad at. The husband or the ghost, because it's like both of them are working together to make sure that I can. They're going to gasoline you. To gasoline you. They're gaslighting your brother. Like gaslight in Christina. That email felt like a shit sandwich. It felt like your bed was right in the middle. Yeah, yeah. It was bookended by something I could tolerate. A young woman scurrying up your walls into a vent. That way. The scurrying. The scurrying. That wasn't enough. And climbing onto the dresser, like a little spider person. Like I don't think so. And the fact that like, oh, maybe it was a nightmare. I do want to believe my skeptic husband. Oh, why is my engagement ring on the floor with my jewelry? I mean, no. You're all under, explain that. Yeah. Yeah. We all rest our case. Explain that. Explain that. Okay. So that was horrifying. I experienced a sleep paralysis situation where my son was in the other room. My husband at the time had left to go to work. And I heard what I thought was him coming back in, like he had forgotten something. And so I heard his keys. And then I opened my eyes and I see a woman in my doorway and it was an old woman. My God. Which is what I was picturing whenever you were reading this. And she looked at me, just turned her head and walked out. Now I have the baby monitor on my bedside table. I see her walk in on the baby monitor to my friend's room. I, you are fucking lying. I am like crying because I want to, but she was very, like I could hear my son crying. And I wanted to get up desperately and I couldn't. But in that situation, she was at least trying to like tend to my kid. She wasn't screwing up my dresser into a vent. Oh, honestly, I, this is why I know I can't, I'm sorry, I'm watching two lizards. It's mating season. Then they're on my wall. It's crazy. Oh, wow. That's pornographic. Um, these boys didn't y'all hot bottom. I feel like in that moment, there's a reason why I'm not meant to be a parent. Because if I saw a woman approaching my, my kids crib and in my mind, I'm sorry, I'm thinking of the scurrying woman. I'd be like, I don't, I can't get in there. I wouldn't know. I wouldn't. Yeah. Learn to fight. I don't know what I would know what to do. It's like when we throw them into a pool and you hope that they flip over. Sometimes I'm just like that, um, I was going to say to, I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on, I mean, aren't we all this woman scurrying? Okay. I want to add to like the fact that the vent connects to the main house is so distressing to me. It's like something in my mind, my, it's like something was coming to watch you like in your guest room. In this situation, as someone who knows virtually nothing about the paranormal, are we assuming this wasn't a ghost? It was some sort of like, I don't know, I'm assuming it wasn't a ghost. It was like, sort of like entity, like negative entity. I don't know. And I, it would cross my mind for a moment. Like, was this like the people in the main house that were like, yes, like a true crime up here. Like they're fraud and are living in the ceiling or something. And they're like, I want to be ghosted. What was that one movie where the watcher house? The grandparents were not really the grandparents. And they were like under the house and they were like climbing the oven to clean it or whatever. Yes. That's what I wanted to watch. I don't know what that is. I'm with Rachel on this. I don't even know what Rachel thinks. I think it clips of this where they like get on FaceTime with their mom and that's not your parents. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I always wondered. Everybody stopped. Who dropped them off? You know, who dropped them off there? I'm going to hang up on all of you in five seconds. It was a bad movie. But I, I mean, I would have at least certainly because Christine and I are always talking about like, which is, when you hear a sound in the middle, then I like, do you hope it's a ghost or do you hope it's a, some is breaking in, right. And uh, I, if I woke up and saw someone near my jewelry while I'm sleeping in a guest house, I, I would think someone broke in and is trying to rob me. And then all of a sudden they scurry into the wall and I'd be like, what the fuck was that? Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm picking up, I'm picking up and moving. Yeah. I'm like, when, when things got bad with Elsie, I, we had only been in the house for like four months and I was like, we have to move. Yeah. Yeah. How could you do it totally? Oh, I guess I'm staying at the place instead of like living there. I don't know. Wow. I will say, I never thought about this way, but I think Blaze also sleeps like a Victorian child, if that's what we're going with, because I do sometimes hear like the other day, there was a crash in, what was the other day was a few weeks ago, there was a crash in on the third floor of my house. And I assume like the cat had broken a glass, like I heard glass shattering. And like, you don't want to hear glass shattering in the middle of the night. And I literally turned to my husband who is like a martial arts person and like trains every day has a baseball bat in the bed. I'm like, wake up and he's like, no, I'm tired. And I'm like, there's something, some glass shattering and he said, oh, that's too bad. And I'm like, will you get the activate? That's like a later me problem. Activates. Where's your sleeper Asian button? And then I tried to that. I'll do the big, I'll do the big, the big show, the big finale. I said, I think someone's in the house. And he goes, I'm sure he's like, oh, what? I don't think so. And I'm like, okay, so nothing apparently. I am hearing it. I feel like the first, the first thing commission, if you're going to be a martial arts person, I feel like the first thing you, the first step is wake up. But I feel like, you know, they teach you, well, I don't, I don't know for sure, but I imagine they teach you like how to remain calm in situations. And he's like, too calm. I'm like, it's time to begin what you've been training for. I mean, thank God, by the way, as Emma and I always discuss, like you just said, it was a ghost because the glass panel of my vanity appeared just like flung itself off and shattered everywhere. It's also a mirror which felt like bad luck. But yeah, it was weird. And the fact that Blaze didn't wake up, I almost was like, uh-oh, now the ghost, no, he's not going to get up anytime soon. Yeah, it's like, all that training is for not to be attacked. Oh, Josh, once he's asleep, he's actually useless. He's got, like, they're gone. He's horrible. He's horrible. He's a horrible husband, terrible father. He literally, he's a very child knew the death of his. Also, and I regularly say that I look more like the boy, but I act like the girl, and she looks like the girl, but acts like the boy. And she really also sleeps like a Victorian child. And like, I know if someone broke in with an ax, stabbed me a million times, so I had time to scream for an hour. And we live in a shoe box. She would just sleep the whole life. She would roll over and go, are you okay? And then like roll back over. Like that's how Blaze is, too. Yeah. Yeah. She was. She's a deep sleep kiss for kissing. I'm not just one of those things where I'm like, Oh, you are the man, aren't you? Such a, such a guy. And then I'm sure it was just a nightmare. You know, like, Oh, God. We know who needs to train Blaze is Leona. Apparently, he's sleeping with her eyes open. He takes a couple lessons. I'm gonna get her a baseball bat to put my hip in. That's who needs them. Yeah. The one with the eyes wide open all night long. Okay, wow. That was a doozy. Is it? Yeah. Is it my, are there more? Is it my turn? There's two more. Yeah. So I left the planet again. Sorry. This one, this one is from Kate who uses she her pronouns. Thank you for your amazing pronouns. And the subject line is, Hey, the woman in the laundry room wasn't my mom. And now my dad has some new beliefs. Oh, hello, everyone. Thanks so much to Eva. That should, that should be however you mail starts. Thank you. Thanks. But thanks to Eva for making today possible, for making every day possible. Of course. Thanks so much to Eva for reading my story. I appreciate all the hard work you do. Also of Christine and Emma reading this. Ah. Okay. Love that. Thanks for all the laughs. I've been listening since episode 25. Oh, my God. Long time. That is a long time. Be aware. There is a slight trigger warning for a mention of suicide for this story. Okay. Let's crack into it. As you can tell by the title, my dad has some new beliefs about what the afterlife could look like. So it is blaze. Apparently, he went to a Tyler Henry show at the hard rock casino and it changed his view on life. I never know what it's going to be. You never know what it takes. You know. Okay. But a bit about, as you can tell by the title, my dad has some new beliefs about what the afterlife could look like. And it all started with the woman in the laundry room. The following stories and family lore has been told to me by my mother, who swears these were the experiences might that made my dad realize maybe there is actually something to look forward to after our time here on earth. Also bear with me. There are two stories, but you can't tell one without the other. So here I go. For a quick bit of context, my grandparents and great uncles are all from the Appalachian Mountain area. When my great uncle was in his early 20s, he was dating a girl. We'll call Jamie. Jamie was so madly in love with my uncle that when he decided he was moving to California to start over, she was coming with him. My uncle, however, told Jamie she could come with him, but he would not marry her for what reason I have no idea. I mean, I mean, maybe she just said he doesn't want to. I don't know. I don't know. I guess that's allowed. I think she came with him anyways. And once, when months later, he broke up with her. Yeah. She showed up at my grandparents house in a wedding. Oh, God. Okay. Sorry. This gets really, really dark. Okay. Sorry. Whoa. I did not see this coming. Okay. She came with him anyways. And one month later, he broke up with her. She showed up at my grandparents house in a wedding dress and died by suicide in front of them. Oh, my God. Oh, oh, oh, oh, my God. In front of him or just in front of the grandparents, like so his parents. Oh, my fucking God. Everyone in my family has known about this since since, including my dad, even though he was not alive when the events took place. So this was like her grandfather. Okay. My God. What the horrifying story. And then it says end of trigger warning. That's good. Thank you so much. I got that. We landed on the other side and went, what the fuck? Jesus. Okay. Whoa. All right. End of trigger warning. After added context, my dad prior to these events was the biggest skeptic my mom knew as he would make fun of her even talking about supernatural things. When my mom and dad were 20 years old, my dad was in the military. After long deployments, my parents would come home to a small farm town in the middle of California to see their families. On one of these trips home while visiting my dad's parents, he saw something he'd never forget and still refuses to speak about to this day. It was an easy day of lounging around and talking to my grandma about baby shower plans. When my dad decided he'd do the laundry for him and my mom before they packed up to go to his cousin's house. See, the first man who's just stepping up and doing the laundry thing incredible, incredible. Okay. It was an easy day of lounging around, talking to my grandma about baby shower plans when my dad decided he'd do the laundry before they packed up to go to his cousin's house. Think of an old home that was built in the 90s where you walk in the garage and then straight ahead through the living room was the kitchen. My dad walked down the long hallway to the garage where the washer and dryer were located while switching the clothes from the washer to the dryer. My dad saw something white and flowy out of the corner of his eye. Oh no. Oh my god. When he looked up, he saw, wait, hold on. Wasn't that also what that lady was wearing in the yard? Like nose to nose with that guy. Oh yeah. Right. And fortunately on the wedding day. Yeah, she also looks like the cheese. Oh that's right. Yeah. Okay. Here we go. While switching the clothes from the wash to the dryer, my dad saw something white and flowy out of the corner of his eye. When he looked up, he saw the back of a woman with long dark hair walking through the garage door into the house wearing a long white dress. Oh my god. He called for my mom. But before he could get an answer, the door slammed shut. My mom told me that my dad explained after seeing this woman, he felt an immense amount of dread. And with that, he took off running down the hallway. When he got into the living room, he found my mom and grandma talking there. He interrogated my mom and grandma, demanding to know who came down the hallway and why they were trying to scare him. When they swore up and down that neither of them had done it and that he was the only one in and out of the garage, all the color drained from his face. In the same trip home just days later, my mom and dad went to stay with his cousins, the children of the earlier mentioned uncle and visit just before heading back to San Diego. One night after going to sleep, my dad awoke to the sound of knocking on the sliding glass door. Oh my god. That was across the living room from the air mattress. He and my mom were sleeping on. He sat up and when he turned to look at the sliding glass door, he saw the same woman he had seen a few days ago, oh my god, clawing and pulling at the sliding glass door. Hey, hey, go stop clawing, stop climbing. Stop doing the clawing. The animal movements is too much. It must be done. What it is is untenable, frankly, untenable. It is. It's untenable. I'm just an incredible word. My new, my new hex is quid at Susie and that should just calm it all like just everything got to stop. That's enough Susie. Okay, clawing and pulling at the sliding glass door. She made eye contact with him and put her hand against the glass of the door. What? As she faded away. What kind of fucking Steven Spielberg E.T. ship - What do you mean? - What do you mean? Do you think that her dad looked like her uncle? Oh. And then the woman was like, "There you are, you mother fucker. I've been found you for your last year." You know, you're just kidding. You're actually full fucking chills because especially at that age 20, which is like the same age around when this would have had. Oh my god, Jerry. Well, and also, where did she commit suicide? At the grandparents house. That was built in the 90s? No, no, no. That was in Appalachia. Oh. And they were in California. So now they're like, they've all moved to California. But also, she followed him to California, remember? Like, back in the day. She could have been attached to something that was still in the house or something that just got with them. Or I've been attached to them. Shit, I don't know. Yeah. That's more. Okay. Yeah, especially like dying in such a traumatic way. Yes. Like, yeah. I could also see it being something that like she breathes. She's just like in this weird limbo space. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if this were a Steven Spielberg ET movie. I feel like they have like now like found common ground with the hand up on the glass together. And I feel like maybe now she'll go the fuck away, you know? Maybe. Maybe. That's what I'm hoping. I'm like, let's have a happy ending here. I'm like, oh, now we've even maybe a bond to be like the glass. Like, let's agree to the secret monster. That's what's happening right now. Thank you. Yeah. Is that what's happening? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I see. Okay. So he saw this woman at the sliding glass door. She made that contact, put her hand against the glass and faded away. My dad went back to sleep. I don't know how he managed that and had countless night terrors of him waking up to find the woman standing over him. Oh, God. She got in. Like, come on. Never mind. You got to rip up. I know. I was like, Steven Spielberg would just, I don't think he would. It becomes the whole sudden of a loss of raptors there. For certain. He had countless night terrors. All of this woman standing, standing over him, staring with her hurt and sorrowful brown eyes into his. My dad told my mom all of this. And after looking at the sliding glass door, she was trying to get through. He realized there was still a hand print. No, no, no. Hmm. It's in that moment I would literally buy a, buy figure print kit or something just to have evidence of this. A fingerprint kit you and I would be on Amazon. Like hold on. I need to show people like this bitch was here. Here's her little triple DNA. Yes. You're on. You're on. I said it together. It's real. You can call us glass cutters and like, like, the swivel being around it from spy kids or whatever. Yeah. No. I was assuming that's a real thing. Yeah. Also, I'd be like, I mean, this is just, okay, it's all just very horrible. Okay. So my dad told my mom and he realized there was still a hand print. To this day, that hand print is still on the sliding glass door and get your kit. Literally today is the day. I'm hate Kate. Can you just get a fingerprint kit over there now? That's that. Get a new. What are you doing? Come on. Come on. We got to do. Come on. Yeah. Get back. It's one and one is two. Let's go. What is an animal? Also, like, has anyone tried to wait that off? Because that feels like you're. I would have modally remained or something. It feels weird to. Oh, really? I would. I was going to say I take a one of those power cleaner things. One of those crazy power. I would literally put a sharpie border around it and be like, you can wash the window, but not this. Because this is the only. It's so fast. This is. This is one of those things where I'd be like, if there, if there's ever a contest, where it's like, we're looking for literal evidence of a ghost, you have it right there. Dear Lord. That's a money maker. Okay. I mean, I just printed it a turkey. There goes the money. Oh, man. Oh, I see. Would you? Okay. Oh, I see what you mean. I was following it all. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's a good joke. Okay. Yeah. Now, how do we get back into this terrible sad tragic story? Let's see. To this day, the handprint is still on that sliding glass door. It's believed the print. Oh, tell me. Tell me. Now, this is even getting spookier. I mean, I didn't think it could tell me immediately what it's believed the print is between the two panes of glass. And that is why nobody can scrub it off. Okay. But she preserved herself. She's looking at somebody maker. That's fucking amazing because she was trying to go through her glass. Holy shit. And by the way, with an expo marker, you can make as many turkeys as you want now. Yeah. Cause it's a perfect fixture. We all win. So now my dead. My dead. Okay. The sliding glass door. It's believed the print is between the two panes of glass. And that's why nothing can clean it off. My dad at that point told my mom he believed in the afterlife now because how could you not when your uncle's dead ex-girlfriend won't quit falling you around and made her promise not to tell anyone. So, yeah. That's how my uncle's ex-girlfriend was the woman in the laundry room that was not my mom and made my skeptic dad believe in ghosts. And that's why he drinks. Oh, my word. I'm very sorry also for the family trauma and we're not trying to just play through that. It's because that part is just absolutely bananas level like not okay. But just like the fact that your dad is just like going about his life, never having even met this person and then all of a sudden she's like, you look just like him. Like that's fucking terrifying. And he was young when this happened. Is that like it was him as a young man? Yeah. He was really young. He moved away from home. He wasn't alive. No, I know when this happened to him. About the same age, right? Yeah. Yeah. He was about 20. So they were when she crazy. Which I think makes so much sense to Jerry's point of they probably resemble one another. Yeah. Would be my guess. Like there you are. You handsome mother father. Yeah. I'm going to come in. I'm mom. Oh. I know. Wow. That's just like. That's like a. That's a good one. That's a really good one. All right. We have one left who would like to read it. It wants to take us home. Jerry. Jerry. Take us home. Wow. All right. I'm going to actually call my mom to take me home because I am a little scared. Mom. Take me up. Take me up. This is. The time I asked my sister-in-law's dead dad to grab my skeptic boyfriend's ass. Incredible. Already. Wow. Notes. I'm fine with that so far. Yeah. Although consent's important. I was about to say. I think that should be the voice of reason here. But maybe I won't be. I think I'm a little. I'm putting my own experience in the loop when I make that statement because I have been. We were saying polter group. I've been strapped on the ass by a ghost. And because the story is good. I'm fine with it. So I think like. Man for the bit. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good hindsight. I would hope that this. This. All in good. Sorry. All in good. I did it for the bit. Yeah. Hello. I'm in Christine. I saw the call for skeptical partner stories and ran to the submission page. I can't remember a time in my life when I didn't have some sense of the paranormal world. I remember being three and telling my mom I didn't like the ghost in my room. valid. Off the tongue. Who would. Who would she told me at three. They just need my help. So thanks for the complex mom. Wait. Wait. Wait. They're there for your assistance. It's like, you know how you help, you know how you Therapai's mommy all day? Well, now you have to Therapai's these ghosts too. Yeah, just getting that was just awesome. That was not a reference to this person's actual parent. She would also tell me when my grandfather's ghost was around visiting. Oh God, well, so growing up, nice. This is very matter of fact interaction with spirits, I've become pretty used to weird things. My boyfriend, however, believes everything has an explanation, a theme. For example, I have a pride tiara on my shelf that I got at a local pride parade. I've known since I moved into my current house that it came with an old man's ghost and he's a grump. The house of the Teara. Yeah. I was on the Teara and I went an old grumpy gay. One day, my boyfriend and I were sitting minding our own business. When I heard a loud cling sound just before the tiara flew off the shelf as if someone flicked it off. I immediately started yelling at the ghost telling him that in my house, we don't accept that kind of shit no matter what he believed in life. Oh, got it. After I finished, my boyfriend said, I think it just fell normally. Okay, get out. Hey, hey, Kevin, shut up. It shouldn't happen. No one asked you unless there's a cat on on the loose. Yeah, that you start out there. And as of now, I'm not been told of any cats. This, like, on a mission to find an experience, my boyfriend couldn't explain away. So I started taking him on ghost stores and hunts. This is good to a T or T chain everywhere ghosts are supposed to be. We live in Southern California. And I got tickets for a guided ghost hunt on the Queen Mary on Halloween. That'll do. It's sister-in-law that all I want is for my boyfriend to have something happen that he can't explain. And jokes that it would be great if a ghost could just touch him. Yeah. Just just a little whip. So you gave consent. So, you know, it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Her father passed away several years ago. So she called out, hey, dad, if you can help out, touch his ass on the hunt on Halloween. So weird things happen on the hunt, but nothing that really convinced him. It went well until about 2 a.m. So we booked a room on the Queen Mary for the night. I am sorry. I know. We get back to our room after it's over, starting to get ready for bed. And he comes out of the bathroom looking odd. What's up? I asked, I browse furrowed. He says, I don't know. I was brushing my teeth and I felt something rubbing against my ass. But I think it was just for shower. No, that was the grumpy gay. That was the grumpy gay. Oh, I thought it was the dad. I did. Dad is the dad. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. It's the grumpy gay. The grumpy gay everywhere. Oh, I thought, okay, because I was like, oh my god, it's the dad that grumpy gay. Okay. I don't like votes. It doesn't like votes. And as someone we've, we've, we've, we've, I was going to say we've booked an overnight stay there. That does not mean we stayed the whole night, but we were there and can't confirm the bathrooms are small and the shower curtain could have been rubbing his butt. Could have. Okay. Okay. That could also be dad. That's good insight. I start laughing. He didn't know about the conversation with my sister in law. And I am convinced that he couldn't have felt the fabric shower curtain through his jeans. And her dad did, in fact, grab his ass in a moment of opportunity. I tell him the whole story. He's still skeptical. I call my sister in law the next day. She believes that's exactly how her dad would have done it. We tell our friends, his coworkers, literally everyone. And every person we tell believes it had to be, it had to have been her dad. My boyfriend, to this day, he's still not convinced. How do you get ghost-groped in a Queen Mary bathroom and still be a skeptic? I'm still dragging him on tours and hunts. And one day I believe I'll finally convince him. But until that day, that's why I drink. Oh, wow. Here's what I have to say. He has to convince himself. He could literally see a full-blown apparition in front of his face and be like, I was just hallucinating. Like, there is no way you can, because I've tried this with place. And then all of a sudden, I make him take me to a Tyler Henry show and he goes, everything changed. I went, that's what it took. I just had to show you Hollywood medium one time. I don't know. So every ghost, I mean, that's a perfect point. Like a young, a gentle gay man, but still man, yeah. And I just was very like surprised, but he's like, wow, I can't believe it. And I'm like, I didn't know that was the entry point for you. But yeah, maybe Poltergroped wasn't enough for this guy. But also, like, I just love that he has to know it wasn't the shower curtain because why else would he come out with a furrowed brow and go, it must be the shower curtain. Like, if he, he would be like, no, it was definitely, it was, he wouldn't have even told you the story. If he was certain that it was the shower curtain, why would I talk about it at all? Yeah, maybe, maybe he's playing dumb. And he just likes going on these ghost tours. Maybe he's actually having a blast. I don't. He sticks his, he sticks his butt out a little bit, like, treatment, treatment to these little tiny stuff. I just, I heard, and it's like, I just like when your friend's dad just gives me a little poop, you know, and the rear. Yeah. It was weird because the shower curtain said, good game. Good game. Well, you know what? Good game to you guys too. We all did awesome. I'm so thankful you were all here for, sorry, we took had you for so long, but that tends to happen when some yappers show up on a screen together. We took up about 20 minutes figuring out so far you was not the movie. That's okay. It was I take it away from my dog. Like I've got to completely delete it. Yes. That's what I had to do. Oh, it was uploading stuff. Patreon was. I'm going to have a conniption took me like two full days and I was like, this needs to come out tomorrow. And then Jerry was like, are you, what browser are you saying? I was like, none of your business. This is not an intervention. Yes. We've we've been here before. We had to intervene on M's behalf one time so. Wow. Well, thank you both so much for having us. No, for. You're so welcome. And also, where can people find you besides just, you know, all over the place? We are. I really need to remember these handles better for better and worse podcast, pot, pot, a Gmail. Yeah, for. They both, they both call their phones out simultaneously. You get my shit together. Hey, hey, hey, hey, let me get my shit out. I just know that Eve is about to chime in with all the all the information on Instagram at for better and worse podcast. Can also find us on TikTok at, we just have a better and worse. We'll Rachel has to find herself first. And then we can find you guys. Yeah. Yeah. So find yourself. It's a geocache situation. You just have to find poor scavenger. Yeah. We do where you need to go. Exactly. It's super fun. We're in the hyperlink to the YouTube or something. Like, you'll have to open it on safari. Otherwise, it'll never work. Then we'll find us. We'll find you. Exactly. That's so powerful. Wow. What a way to end it. Thank you both so much. We've got a delight and congratulations, Jerry, on being a newly wed. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's parsons now. Oh, that's a nice ring to it. Thank you for having us. A blast is always a blast. Yeah. Thank you. And we'll see everyone next month for more listener stories. Bye. Bye.