Lisa Nguyen on Building Astrid, Selling to Chemist Warehouse, and Redefining Resilience

[Music] Welcome back to Hygien See Women. We have an extremely special guest in the studio today. Her name is Lisa Nguyen and she is the founder of Astrid. Astrid is a medicinal cannabis dispensary and pharmacy. The extremely exciting news in Astrid's journey is that Lisa has now sold Astrid to Kamis Warehouse. In today's interview we're going to explore what that acquisition process was actually like. We're going to talk about Lisa's approach to leadership and how she's really been able to bring her more softly spoken and empathetic side to bear. She also reveals that she has ADHD which I think is very familiar territory for many creative business, high agency women. This is a really beautiful conversation. Keep an eye out for Astrid on social media and of course the actual retail stores. There's going to be a lot more of them in the coming years. Here's Lisa Nguyen. We'll get into it because I actually have like a ton of questions and I saw. I was like a lot to sow. Yeah. There's a lot to unpack. A lot has happened. A lot has happened. I just want to start by saying good afternoon Lisa. It's really special to have you here. Not least of all because when we first met Astrid was it was very much like formed as a business, as a retail offering for where you are in in like your career and found a journey. But there's been some pretty big news in the meantime. You've officially sold Astrid to Kamis Warehouse meaning today I thought a really valuable part of our focus for high agency women could be on that acquisition news. So it's an interesting place to start but do you mind sharing a little bit about this recent news? How you did it? What you learned and how you feeling right now? Absolutely. There's so much to unpack there. Yeah. It's been a big journey. I think the last time I saw you were at a different place. Yeah. In the business. We were in Barron Bay. Yeah. And I think the acquisition of Astrid to Kamis Warehouse was probably one of the most pinnacle moments in my career. But it wasn't something that happened overnight. And one of the things that I would say to founders is that when you are going through that acquisition journey, you really have to understand your why. And what I mean by that is it wasn't something that I did non-intentionally. It was very intentional. I wanted to find a home for Astrid. Astrid has so much meaning to me. There's so much that has gone behind Astrid. And so when you're finding a home for Astrid or something that you built from scratch, your baby, it's almost like you want to make sure that it's the right partnership or marriage. And so when I was going through the whole process of putting Astrid on the market, it was almost like a dating process where I went to market and I pitched to multiple people. And it wasn't something that I took lightly. I wanted to make sure that the people I was pitching to, it wasn't like everyone. It was a very select amount of people because the people that I had in my list had to make sure that culturally they were aligned financially, they were aligned. But most importantly, values wise, they were aligned. Will they look after my people? Will they continue the brand and the legacy? Do they understand why I am doing this and what I want to achieve? What do I want for Astrid's future? And so I remember distinctly sitting across the room from, across the table from my over-o-key who's the CEO of Kimis Warehouse. And I've had this whole conversation. I've done the pitch and I remember sitting and thinking, "Does he understand my why? Does he understand what it is that I have built?" And does he respect it? And what I landed was it wasn't something that was said. It wasn't a conversation that I didn't ask more over-o-key. Do you know my why? But how did you sense into that then? You just felt it. I felt it. And he's not a man of many words. I actually, he's probably one of the most successful business people in the country. Kimis Warehouse has, it's the biggest pharmacy group in Australia, the most successful pharmacy group in Australia with over 600 stores and growing domestically and globally. And so I didn't take it lightly. But if- And the subject of what was one of the most major ASX mergers a couple years back with SIGMA, so which was a huge capitalisation moment in March, don't for that company as well. On the business front there's so many different forms of success when it comes to business. Definitely just a prominent story in business in Australia. Absolutely. I think that was important and I think that they've done really well and they're very successful. But for me it's not just about their success. It's about does Astrid fit into this. And so how did Astrid fit in? Because I understand on the level of pharmacy, I understand on the level of patient care and offering. But on first blush, I love Kimis Warehouse, but it's yellow. I'm like the purchase amazing. It's prices alone. But the aesthetic is very much in contrast to the feminine, considered, almost boutique feel of Astrid. So I was like, oh, this is like, I feel like Lisa's going to help expand a little bit on what's going on here. Because I get it, but I didn't like for sure. For sure. And I guess that was part of the initial conversations with Kimis Warehouse. Are we aligned with the vision is? Because if their vision was to create another Kimis Warehouse, or merge it in, then we're not aligned. But from the get go, they understood they loved the brand. They loved Astrid, but they really respected what I built and where it's come from. Kimis Warehouse have also come from very similar backgrounds and the more that I'm in the business with them, the more I understand how similar we are from a grassroots perspective, both immigrant backgrounds, both hustle mentality, both do whatever it takes to make it happen. And despite how big they are now, that is still embedded all throughout the organization, which I really respect. And what they saw in Astrid. So it's like a kindred spirit kind of there, even if like they're kind of almost like further along the journey business. I think I think something in that. For sure. I think they saw in Astrid what they were once were, if that makes sense. They saw, they saw where they were in the beginning. Like once upon a time, there was one Kimis Warehouse. And no one believed in them. And no one got it. And they there were builders that disrupted. And that was one of the conversations I've with my own. He's like, I'm a builder and I want to build this. And I'm building Astrid as a standalone business within the Sigma Healthcare family. So we're not going to be merging with all the other banner groups. We are our own standalone brand. And we're going to scale Astrid underneath the Sigma umbrella, which is for me, very, very exciting because that's legacy building. That's a future for Astrid. That's career pathways for my team. That's, you know, millions of patients being able to access medicinal cannabis in the future. And so that all went back to my values and my mission. And that's why I decided to sell to Kimis Warehouse. It's amazing. This huge congrats. I mean, I know it's like evolving and like, it's not like a singular moment, but it is like 100% an amazing milestone. I think like for a founder and exit is often a desired outcome. I was kind of surprised chatting to investor Chanel Tonglo and she's, you know, chatted to me before and she actually shared something that really surprised us, which she said, hey, I think more founders should think through the exit upfront, which, yeah, I was like, oh, okay. Is that something you were actively thinking about when you started Astrid? Do you agree with that like perspective, what having like kind of done it and what you were thinking and yeah, what do you think of what Chanel is saying there? I agree. I also disagree. I agree in that. Well, let's say I'll start with disagree. And when you're found and you're starting something from scratch, you are blinded by love. You're obsessed with your business. You're not thinking about the exit. If I was in the early days, you want to get to so obsessed with making Astrid happen and building it and like disrupting and like fixing things and understanding the customer journey and like just scaling that I was, I didn't even think about the exit. But when you're year two, year three, you're no longer start, you're kind of in scale up. And when you get to scale up, you need to really think about the next two, three, four, five years looks like. And that's when the capital conversation kind of comes in. You need to understand where you're going in the business because your business is a different kind of business at year three to four. And you really need to understand, okay, how do you get, you know, what are your long-term goals in terms of like what is your vision for your business and your, your baby and how do you get there financially? So whether it is getting private equity investment, whether it is universal. in capital in different ways, whether it is in exit. But there's so many different types of exits as well. And so that was part of my learning where I just thought that, you know, I'm just, I'm fighting an investor, it's not that simple. And particularly when you're a founder, you know, my brand is so closely tied to Astrid as well. And so it's not as simple as, yeah, I'm gonna exit. It's like, you're gonna exit by how and why? And is it for the right reasons? - And who were the people that you felt you could trust with those kind of conversations? - I thought I had to do a lot of internal thinking about what do I want for myself and me. So I need to understand my why, because the more you pitch to people and businesses and investors, they will ask you your why and they will tear your part and so the only thing that's gonna hold you together is your why. You strip back the spreadsheet, you strip back the numbers, it's always your why that's gonna ground you. So you yourself need to understand what you want. So that's number one. Number two is having, I think a really good support network who also understand your why and I willing to help you. My husband's been a really great support in that, he's been there from day one and he's a finance guy. So he knows numbers. I'm a visionary gal and so numbers aren't my forte, but when you're pitching to investors, you need to know your numbers back to front. - So what kind of data did you need to get together like super practically? And maybe, yeah, what were you like? - Regardless of the why, even if that's fundamentally what it's gonna come down to. Like what do you need to have on that screen? - You need to know, you need to know you're revving you, you need to know Ibarar, you need to know your growth story, you need to know your customer numbers, retention, cogs, everything on that spreadsheet, you need to know. But I would say that once you know the numbers and you know it back to front, you can leave it behind because once you know the numbers, everything is about the why. Got it. But I think that that was for the Chemist Warehouse acquisition, it was never a conversation about numbers first, it was always a conversation about the values first and the numbers came second. Because with Chemist Warehouse is such a big business, they've started from scratch, they've got everything, you know, they've done so much to get to where they are and they're not gonna just sacrifice by why any brand. They wanted a brand that made something with a founder that believed in it and a belief system. And so I think that was why that kept the conversation going and that's why the conversation remained at the boardroom table. - What do I know? Like the world has evolved like legally, socially, culturally with medicinal cannabis. But like there's absolutely no doubt that you are like a frontier category. Like I don't think that. I don't even really think that a medicinal cannabis is part of the mainstream conversation in like all pockets of society. So how have you found being at the forefront both as a founder when you have to have a vision? But also what are some of the challenges that you've had in a category that is not in the mainstream discussion? - Yeah. It's a great question. I think that in medicinal cannabis specifically, everything is a battle, everything's a fight. And I just quite so used to it. So you're fighting for drug law reform. You're fighting to reduce stigma. You're fighting to put something that is a plant into mainstream medicine. You're fighting to make sure that patients have access that's fair and patient led as well. And so every single part of the business journey, whether it's finance, whether it's structural, whether it's policy, there's always a battle. I remember talking to politicians about changes that need to be made to policies to make sure that patients had better access. I remember talking to banks because they wouldn't give me loans because medicinal cannabis is such a scary word. And it's a drug. And the stigma is still so prevalent at every part of the business that you just get used to the battles. And it sort of comes with the territory. - It just comes with the territory. To the point where I just, I'm not used to life and asked you without a battle. - And so when things are easy, I'm like, what's the catch? You're like, okay, we're in a state of ease. What's gonna happen? - Yeah, yeah. - Well, I kind of love that in some, like that kind of makes it even more special having an acquirer who saw what you want to do in Astrid in some ways. Like that's kind of like there's a specialness to that when it's like the general experience is, okay, banks not really getting it. Like society not really getting it. Constantly have to do this. Like this litany of kind of challenges, which is a different feel. I can say that that would feel like a bit of a breath of fresh air in some ways. - Yeah, I think that's interesting, sir. And I think that they once upon a time, like no one believed in discount models and it was the same thing for them where they had to really prove themselves as well. That, you know, they've told me stories about how they've started. And like, I really resonated with them because those are the battles that I had to go through, you know, as a business owner as well. And perhaps they didn't have to do with stigma in the same way that I had to do with stigma, but they had a different type of stigma that I had to do with as well. But from my foundation perspective, it takes a lot of grit. It takes resilience, it takes determination. And it takes doing things at all costs as well. And so I think I really understood where the origins came from. And they also I saw that in Ashtrot as well. And yes, it was refreshing for me to understand that they saw that in Ashtrot. And they also were aligned in where we want Ashtrot to go. No, we want Ashtrot to be everywhere in Australia. And I think I talked to you about this last time, I had a chat to you as well. Like my vision for Ashtrot has always been we can want a dispensary across the country. But not just in Australia, I want it in New Zealand. I want to get a London walk in to a dispensary. I want to go to different countries and visit an Ashtrot. And I can see that with with with chemist warehouse, I've got the scale to do so. Like one of the things was I know that I have the heart and the vision. I just never had the scale. And they have the scale. And that for me is really exciting. Tell us a little bit about the stories. Because if you haven't been to an Ashtrot store, there's global domination is coming guys. But the bar and one and the South, the arrow one, are they're really beautiful. So yeah, tell us a little bit about the store, in store experience to bring that to life for people who maybe haven't attended or been in person. But sure. So I really wanted Ashtrot to feel like not a pharmacy. I wanted to feel like you're walking to an ESOP or a day spa. Like I wanted texture and I wanted the elements of nature to really be prominent when you walk into a store. So when you're walking to an any Ashtrot, you should feel really calm because there was always green. There's plants that line the entire building. All the finishes are always within natural touch as well. Like wood or a little bit of stone. And I wanted the patience to feel safe and in a place where they didn't feel stigmatized. And also, I think coming from a-- as a pharmacist coming from regular pharmacy, didn't want them to feel like they're in a pharmacy and just waiting for a prescription. I wanted it to be an experience. And so I created a space where they felt relaxed and looked after and everything was green and lush and beautiful. It's like a hospitality to it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. How-- what have you learned about the customers and the patients and how do you have-- is it mostly through the interactions, the team interactions, talking to them? Is it-- Do you guys use a type form? Do you guys social media? Where is your attack points for seeing the customer and being in touch with them? It's definitely all of that. So social media, form surveys, we do it all. But those things, I feel like a very peripheral for me. I feel like the most meaningful touch points we have with customers or patients are one-on-one and hearing their stories. And I think the beautiful thing about health care, particularly at Astrid, is that it's so intimate. We know our patients really well. And there is-- it's not a transaction. It's a relationship. And we generally want to help patients have access to alternative health care. And so we are able to hear their stories. Lots of patients have come to us with different chronic conditions, chronic pain, endometriosis, insomnia, cancer pain, and they've been through it all. And so sometimes by the time they get to us, they just want someone to listen. And I build a team that are very empathetic and really put people first. And I'm very proud of that. And I think that people within our community, whether that's patients or politicians or advocates, they really feel that. One thing we've been talking about a little bit on our team is this idea of a rising bench of more softly spoken leaders. We haven't necessarily landed on whether we-- we love the term, but we don't think it fully encompasses it. But it is this idea of leading with empathy, or people who are more sensitive, or people who are more introverted, versus the more extraverted [BLANK_AUDIO] various types that take up more attention, at least culturally. We love everybody. We're not saying anything's wrong. We're just saying that the cultural attention has been not as much on that former group. I'd love to know a little bit about how you approach leadership and how you found your authentic style and also the style and approaches of others on the Astrid team. You mentioned empathetic. So yes, for sure. I'm a very empathetic leader, but I don't think that that style of leadership I sought out for it. I think it found me. OK. The only thing that is when you're a founder and you're starting out in leadership is one of those things that you pick up along the way. And I think it comes with learning and it comes with making a lot of mistakes. Over time, I realized that one of my greatest strengths is my ability to be a very soft, very emotional, very gentle, very empathetic leader. And I think if I ask my team to describe how they perceive me, I think it's very resilient. They don't give up. I don't say no. Very, I think kind and soft, but also motherly. And I think when I heard one of my team members describe me as motherly, it kind of sat with me for a little bit because in the land of business, when someone caused you motherly, it's not really perceived as a compliment. It's almost has a negative connotation. When you say motherly, the word that comes next to my mind is family. It's not business. Yes. Yes. But I really feel that Astrid is my family. And the more that I thought about it, the more I really lent into the fact that I lead very softly and gently and empathetically and almost like a mother because I think that's been my greatest strength because what I do is our whole people. And the people that come to me, whether you're an employee, you're part of a community, you're a patient, or someone that is part of our community, I will always try to hold space. I will always try to listen. And I, for my employee perspective or staff or team perspective, I don't see them as just employees. I see them as people. And so I see where they are, what's going on in their lives. What are they going through? It's not about output for me. It's about what are they contributing to? What are we trying to build today? And how can I help them on their journey as well? And I take that really seriously, particularly in decisions like this when you are selling to a bigger company. Yes. So you're able to be your authentic, self, authentic leader, like, soft, more softer, gentle through that process or because you mentioned the pitching and kind of being torn down at times. Like that feels like a very difficult space to hold that part of yourself. So how did you handle that tension? I really felt the mother-ness like you, or you're protecting your carbs. And so when I, it's a bit more like, there's a bit more bite to it in this moment. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, are these, is this the right family for my kids? You know, are these people going to look after them and say, well, I would want to look after them? And so I'm gentle and caring, empathetic, and I protect my team. But when I'm out there, I'm fierce and I hold my ground. And I think you can have both. And you need to have both because you have to know when to hold yourself so that you are paving ways for other people who have sacrificed for you and really believing your vision. I really thought about all these things when I was selling to Kim as well. Are they going to see and believe in my people the same way that I do? Can you think of an example or a moment in the negotiations or the interactions where you have to be really fierce about like a particular deal term or a particular? Absolutely. We had a couple offers and there was, it wasn't Kim as well as but it was. It was another offer where I knew it wasn't right. Another pharmacy group or yes, it was another pharmacy group, but it wasn't it wasn't the right deal. And that was you as a founder, you just know because if the visions are not aligned, the valleys are not aligned, but also, you know, the way that they interact with your people was not the way that you would want to. You just know. And for me, I would always pick something that had, you know, people who were aligned and well wanted my team to be as well. I'd love to talk a little bit more about like your family background and your values. Yes. So you started, I guess we're starting your educational life, but your educational life was like a little bit more the bean track of kind of selective schooling, work hard, play hard, you became a pharmacist like initially. And then now you forged a far more, a far more unique path. This question is not about family, I realise as I say it out loud, but I guess what advice would you have for others considering taking that leap towards building something a little bit more unique? I think my advice is to not be afraid of failing. I think that for me as someone that never really fit the mold, I was never someone that, you know, fit in anywhere I have come from a, you know, an immigrant background. My parents Vietnamese immigrants, they escaped a war torn country to come here. They were in refugee camps for four to five years of their lives, which even now I still can't believe. I can't believe that my parents did that. And so I have grappled with this double identity in my entire life where am I Australian enough and my Vietnamese enough. And what comes with that is you grow up very quickly. You know, I grew up witnessing my parents sacrificing everything for me and, you know, working multiple jobs, sacrificing everything. And they were never fearful, you know, despite everything that they went through, they never said that anything was impossible. Everything was possible if you put in the work. And so for me doing something different was not the scary part. For me it was trying to figure out where I belonged. And then I realised very quickly I didn't belong anywhere. And so you just got to, if you don't belong anywhere, you pay for your own way. And don't wait for someone to tell you you fit into this box to do it. And so that's what I did. I realised, okay, I've got so much resilience and so much grit. But I'm sick of waiting for someone to put me into a box. So I'm just going to go and do it myself. Was there like a series of moments that you talk about, the internal dialogue a lot? Like that strikes me as like this is quite like almost conversations you have with yourself. Like inside. And I believe they call that. Was that a series of moments or were you moving through the world kind of like looking? I'm just trying to, I want to understand the path of that a little bit. Like, yes. Yeah. I understand the feeling. Like I get the feeling from you when you speak. But the way it manifested, I'm kind of curious about. It's so multilayered. Okay. And I feel like I need a different interview for that. We can do a part two. We can come back. Yeah. I think for me, I realise very early on that I wasn't like everyone else. And it's not just, I mean, big and immigrant was a big part of it. But also I was the eldest of multiple cousins and, you know, I've got three, two other siblings. And when you're the eldest of immigrant parents, you are the third parents. So I'm at, you know, hospitals translating. I'm at doctors translating. I'm at, you know, parent teaching interviews and I am the translator. And so you take on responsibility very, very quickly. And then what you, what you start to do is you start seeing the world through different lens. And so you've got the lens of, okay, you're a child and you're seeing the world this way. But you also, you see the world in another way as well. And then you kind of create these other perspectives as well, very early on in life. I think that's when I developed ADHD. And all these tabs that are building in my brain. And I think when I was younger, I thought that was, I was like, why am I so weird? Why is my brain this way? And why am I thinking about all these different, all these voices in my head? But there's a lot of different roles, right? There's a lot of playing, a lot of different roles. And you're actually like, you're like switching between tabs, like even within like a single 24 hours. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And that's where empathy gets developed as well because you have to put yourself in so many different people's different shoes. And I developed empathy very early on because of that. But from a, I guess, business perspective, I think that don't wait for someone to open an opportunity for you. If you want to do something or you feel like something, you're frustrated about something, that's something that you should hang on to and do something about it. It resonates in a different way. I mean, I have friends and collaborators that I would almost like love to be having this conversational sitting beside me or doing a part two with you who do have that immigrant perspective because I know that they would bring something really like beautiful. But the part that probably resonates a little bit, I guess, is I think being someone who's like a writer and very creative, but like often found homes initially that were a little bit more traditional to fit that into. And so I really love the, like I love what you're saying. What I think is like, it's less like from like pure play business. but as like a creative person, like maybe you don't need to find the specific home that's going to fit you but like the building your own is the way. I feel like a lot of people could resonate with that in different ways. How I love the fact that your grandma was an initial backup asteroid. It's pretty incredible. She, like I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, Lisa, but sold like a gold brick that she had saved for AUD $5,000. Did she get a return of financial return? No, because it's in where you're able to have a conversation. She definitely got a return. I said the story is that when I first started Astrid, I didn't have any capital. No banks would fund me. And so my parents and, you know, helped me a lot. But also when I told my grandma, she literally said, "One moment, wait here for 10 minutes, went to the garden, dug up gold that I never knew that she had there." Which now I'm very fearful because she's 93. That she's forgotten whether she's dug or out of the gold. Came back to the living room and handed to me and she's like, "Here you go. Go and live your dream." And I think when I look at it now, I'm very grateful for that moment. And she hasn't, I mean, obviously I've repaid the gold bar back to her. But she's, you know, in Vietnamese immigrant families, you don't expect, you don't expect it back. Right. But as an immigrant daughter, I remember the very first year, no matter what I had to do, I have to pay back my parents and my grandma. It was the thing that was driving been the most in year one. But on survival was, I can't let my family down. And I need to pay them back. And so I did that year one. That's amazing. Yeah, that's really amazing. Let's talk a little bit about the future of Astrid. Yes. So as a visionary, I feel like that's really exciting to be on the what's next. And we talked about how chemist warehouse is going to be able to provide kind of like the retail footprint and the scale. I don't know if chemist warehouse overseas. Do they have overseas locations? They're launching the UK. Okay. So launching in the UK, but huge footprint already in New Zealand as well. But yeah, okay, definitely got a global footprint. So what is the future of Astrid for 2026 and beyond? 2026 and beyond. Well, I think for us, it is about the building blocks. We want to make sure that we building the right building blocks here in Australia. We are growing the team in the right way. And what the other thing that I really love about chemist warehouses that they want to do things the right way. One of the things that they loved about Astrid is that we're very ethical and I never cut corners in an industry like medicinal cannabis. That's quite rare. And I think the one of the things I sought out for them the most is my integrity. And so we will build and we will build properly. And even if that takes us a little bit longer, we will do it right. And I think that yeah, it's very important. And so we'd love to have, you know, brick and mortar throughout the country in the next coming, the few coming years. We've got that in the works already, which is so exciting. That's amazing. Oh my god. I'm excited. I'm so excited. My brother. I love this. I feel like we can finally bond on that level. I'd be like, Alex, let's go to Astrid together. I know. It's crazy. And it's just crazy working at such a scale. Like, yeah, we've got so many about that because I feel like that's like, what does that feel like? It's just, you know, as a founder, I'm so used to doing things by myself. Right. You know, it's like my own money, my own little team, and you just figure it out. And it's just usually like, you know, like it's like Astrid seems big, big, big and glamorous and all that, you know, on socials. But really, there's only like a couple of us behind the scenes, making it happen. So then when I'm going into this bigger company, you've got like a whole marketing department. You've got a whole PR department. You've got a whole finance. I was like, there's so many people here. And it is both other warming, but also very exciting at the same time. Do you now like physically go into their existing offices? So when you're saying these people, are you like, hey, hey, marketing teams. Now my colleagues, I guess. Yep. Yep. So we have lots of friends. Yep. So it's very, very exciting. So I work both at our headquarters in Melbourne in South Yara, but also at the Kimmer's Warehouse headquarters in Melbourne as well. I like to make sure that I have both. I love that. Okay. I'll throw three final questions to you. Sure. I could talk to you all day. There's too many layers later. Okay. Lisa, what do you feel is your unfair advantage as a founder? I think two things. I think I mentioned this before, but ADHD, definitely. But also emotional intelligence. And I think emotional intelligence is kind of tied into ADHD. A lot of ADHD founders have really a very intuitive. I think I'm very, very intuitive. And that comes from my upbringing. But what that means is that when I'm in a room, I don't have to be the loudest person in the room. I can feel people's energy. I can I see things that people don't see, but also from a business perspective, I could have 10 things in the air and still pivot and still find a creative idea. And it's a launch in time. If a launch in time, people think I'm crazy, but I always get it done. I feel like there's a lot of people who are discovering the superpowers of ADHD. Speaking of forging your own path. Okay. Lisa, what does the term high agency mean to you? High agency means to me that you don't wait for things to happen for you. You go out and get it yourself. So what that means is, you know, if a door is closed, you go and find a window. If that window is locked, you go and build a door. You just have to find a way to make it happen yourself. And I think that high agency is that you just find a way to make things happen. And you don't wait for opportunities to come to your door. You go and chase them and you find a way to make things work. And my final question is, we spoke about grit. Grit can be a double-edged sword, especially when you need to like look after yourself. And have your cop filled and have things to give others. How have you, it's an admirable quality of for sure, but how have you learnt when to grit? Yes. And when to quit. It's such a great question. And probably the hardest question for me to answer because as someone that's such a A type high achieving ADHD, founder, energy, crazy, emotional type, really hard to let me just slow down. Also, as someone that's very highly empathetic, I find myself to get into put myself first. And that's something that I have really intentionally tried to change over particularly the last two years. But I would say for any founders out there, put yourself first because for you to stay in the game for the long run, you need to be able to rest. And rest is just as powerful as play and success and all that. And how that's manifested for me is that a big part of my story and a big part of why I had sold Asher at this time is because I've been trying to have a family. And I've been diagnosed with endometriosis and polycystic ovaries. And we've had all failed IVF cycles over the last two years. And it's been really difficult. And so when you mentioned quitting, for me, it wasn't about quitting. It was about leaning into rest so that we could start a family. But making sure that Asher had the right legacy in future because I want that for Asher, because Asher was my first baby. And so as you can imagine last year, I was doing multiple IVF rounds one day and the next day I'll be pitching at it in a boardroom. And the thing that people don't know about women is that we carry so much silent weight that people don't talk about. Particularly women that can't conceive. And I really struggled with that for many years. And last year, one of the main reasons why I wanted to find a home for Asher was for this reason, I want to make space for myself. Yeah. I am really happy to announce that I'm currently 12 weeks pregnant as of today. Please help. And so happy. And we're so thrilled. And it just took us a while to get there. But I don't know. I've sold the business to Kema's warehouse. Like that's a dream. I've got a place for the future of Asher and I've got a home for all my staff members for their future careers, which was so important to me. I want to make sure that everyone had wonderful careers after our left or a lot around. And I made time for myself and now I'm pregnant and I'm gonna be having a baby in November. - So I think I wanna hug you right now, but like, do we like in this? Like, just a bit. - That's actually like, I don't even have words. - It's pretty crazy, pretty crazy. - It's really cool. I'm so happy for you, Lisa. - Thank you so much. - Yeah, so much. - I'm very close to crying. - I'm trying to hold it in me. (laughing) - I'm like, do you wanna know the other news? - Yeah, don't cry. - Okay, now I'm like, yeah, yeah. - I'm having twins. - That's so ball. - It's so crazy. And sometimes a universe just happens in those ways where I think you just have to listen to your gut. I just knew that I didn't make space for myself, but I still wanted that thing for Astrid. - Yeah. - And I did it and I'm just so blessed and happy. - You have like, maybe my ears is it too, so. - I don't know, I don't even know the gender's yet. - Okay, so you don't know if it's gonna be like two little girls. - I don't know, I know this week. - Okay. - Yeah. - I know like, gender is something. I'm just like, okay, we're still like. - Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. - How are you feeling like in your body and like mind and soul at the moment, like, you know, with, yeah, that's a huge thing for like, this is the whole process metabolizing that, but also just like literally like in your body, mind and soul, like being pregnant with twins right now, how you feel? - I feel like, so last year I'll be, you know, in between IVF cycles and then the next day pitching in boardrooms to, you know, different investors, which was already wild. - Yeah, totally. - And really, yeah, it's like, yeah. It was already crazy and I feel like I pushed my body too much. - Can you chill a little bit now? - I can. - Really? - Okay, yeah. - And I think the only reason I've been able to get pregnant is because I think the moment, and the moment I signed and I still to come as well as my house, my quarters of levels decreased. And then the baby's just camp. It's crazy, but I guess I can chill a little bit now, but I think I just really care for the future of Astrid and I want to make sure that it was in the right home. - Is there anything that you want to add, Lisa, that you think that I've missed? We can of course like open up the space again, but yeah, just I guess for this moment, yeah, anything you want to add at this stage. - I think it's, there's so many ladies to everyone's story, not just mine, but I think, I think about all the other women that are going through this journey and it's quite a lonely journey. Often you don't see the pain behind failed IVF cycles and miscarriages and pregnancy loss and women still rock up the next day, sending emails, letting the teams like nothing's changed. And that is grit, but it also takes a toll. And so for, I just want to say that for any woman out there that's going through that I feel you and I see you. And I know that everything will work out for you. People yourself first. - Thank you so much, Lisa. You've been so generous today and we're really proud of you and really happy to use both the Astrid and its future. And of course, a little baby twins. - Thank you. - Thank you so much, Lisa.