Lisa Kudrow Returns Again

Hi, my name is Lisa Kudrow, and I feel still really good about being told in O'Brien's friend. Is this a day-to-day thing with you? Still, every day. After all. I take a walk, and then I go, "Wait, how do you feel about being told in O'Brien's friend?" Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien, Needs A Friend, joined by, well, Nomat Gourley, right now. He's still out on paternity leave. It's been six years now, he's one of the caretakers of this child. Just joined the army. Good to have you here, David Hopping. Great to be here. And Sona, obsessed you, and of course, as always, you were late today when we just taped an interview that you weren't here for. What happened? Was a little bit of a snaffoo? There was a little bit of a snaffoo. What happened there? It wasn't in my calendar, so if it's not, I'm like, you know, if it's not there, I don't know what's happening. Is this a physical thing you write in, a physical calendar? What do you mean? Like, I have a calendar, and I write in it with my- Wait, I got like a, you know, a fireman with no shirt on, you know. Oh, like a calendar. That's the kind of calendar I picked you having. You probably like a sexy guy calendar, right? It's a digital one, but then there's other calendars that get sent that do have it on there, and I didn't pay attention to those. There was a show about male dancers that you were obsessed with. They weren't dancers. Oh, they were jiggle-os. They were jiggle-os. You were obsessed with jiggle-os. Did you have a jiggle-o calendar back in the day? I did. Yes. And every month. And see, this is why I asked you, I picture you having like a jiggle-o calendar or a shirtless fireman calendar or now a heated rivalry calendar and then the problem is you get so distracted by the hunks that you don't write things down. Every time you go, oh, I write down, I've got to be in there for that interview for the podcast. And then you look up and it's one of the the shirtless hunks from heated rivalry and you go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then you forget and you just write, blither, blather, blather, blather. Yeah. Or I just drool all over it. And you draw butts on the calendar? I draw. Oh, my God. I draw butts. But maybe that's my system for putting things in my calendar. Yeah. Two butts means I got to get into the podcast. Three butts means I've got to go see my orthopedic surgeon. Yes. It's my butt, butt code. Yeah. It's the butt code for my calendar. Look, but then also today, and then you use different things. There's some butts. There's some penises. Yeah. Yeah. Six butts and two penises is Mikey and Charlie need to get their shots. This is her system. The ancient Incas use knotted string instead of recorded language and they, they, they, it worked fine. Sona uses a series of butts and dicks. Yes. And in a certain order and I mean, you're, when you published your version of King Lear, it, it was fantastic. People are going to look at my calendars, thousands of years from now. Yeah. And they're going to be relics of butts and penises. And then people are going to worship. Yeah. It explains the solar system and the movements of the sun. Yes. Yeah. I think so. I think it's a very special system. Anyway. So I went to a workout class this morning. Anyway, aside from my ancient ink and or Aztec calendar of butts and dicks. Yeah. Onward. Yes. So butts and dicks calendar. Yeah. Then I went, I went to workout this morning and I was driving somewhere and then I got a, a text from Blair, which is one of the scary texts to get when you work. He's like, where are you? What's your ETA? And I'm like, oh, I'm supposed to be somewhere right now. And then I called and I found out, but I look like you can, you look, you look like you went to the gym. Yes. Look at me. Look at my hair. Why are you a great shut off? No, no, no. I mean, thank you. No, I feel like I'm, I'm really wishing you didn't have so many subscribers on YouTube right now. Okay. So here's the thing. The workout is because in the whole time I've known you, you've never said to me, I'm off to the gym from my workout. Yes. You've never done that. I don't. So what do you, what do you do? What does it work out? Today was the first workout. I went to you. That's, I didn't know that. Yeah. This is gold. I'm a prosecutor who just happened to ask a question and you said, well, when I purchased the murder weapon and committed the murder, I thought today would be the day that I'm a little workout. Yeah. Where? Where? I did a spin class at SoulCycle in Pasadena. Shout out to me. No, don't give me some. I'm probably not going to go back. I was really, you are not going back really. I suffered throughout the entire thing. Okay. So also, I picture you like yelling back at any instructor if they say, okay, now, ladies, let's go. No. We're going up a hill now. You're like, fuck this. I'm not going up a hill. I was saying it under my breath. I was like, shut up, bitch. Shut up, bitch. She was talking and telling you what to do at the instructor. Yeah. I'll cut a bit. Yeah. But I wanted to. And the whole time I was like, stupid, why am I doing this? I want to watch TV. What am I doing? Why am I doing it? I had an internal monologue that was so not what you should have when you're in a workout class. Right. I hated every second. Did you have, while you're working out, is there a big container of red vines in front of you that you're eating while you're? Yeah. Like six calories out. Like 12 calories in. So I'm eating it to her. Yeah. Yeah. You bring an assistant to feed you red vines. Well, I'm glad you're here. And yeah, I'm sorry. I miss the interview. Don't be sorry. I mean, yeah. You would have had fun. Yeah. But I know. I like to you interview. And so I'm bummed out. I'm sure I'll interview, you know, Barack and Michelle Obama again. It was. It was share. Yeah. And share. It was Barack Obama. Michelle Obama and share. Oh, my God. Yeah. And the survivors of the band Queen. But you know what? We'll do it. You'll come to the show. We got John Deacon included and he doesn't even do anything with the band anymore. Yeah. You know what? Everyone was here. It was really fun. But you wouldn't have loved it. I took your seat. Yeah. Oh. And this great hummus place sent in some food. But next time that happens, we'll be laughing it up. You the hummus place. Hi guys. You like that one? I hate everybody in this room. This is hilarious when I introduce this guest. It just always cracks me up because we've been friends literally forever. And she is one of my absolute favorite people in the entire universe. She stars as Valerie Cherish in season three of the hilarious HBO series The Comeback, which people people are so psyched for this. So excited. So psyched for it. She is one of my closest friends. I adore her and I love when she comes on the podcast. Lisa Kudro, welcome. I mean, we've known each other forever and got started together as everyone knows in improv in '86 and it's still a day-to-day thing with you. I never know. I never know. I'm still good with it. And there have been a whole years where I've been out, but at the moment I'm in, which is fine. And we'll see how it goes. That's not true. It's the other way around. Yeah. No. What? We're back. Look, in the 2000s, I just turned on you. Now we were just, it's funny because I mean, you came in here and you started being really funny and we're just laughing and we hadn't even like turned on the microphones yet. And it just always feels strange when I say, Hey, my gosh, tonight is Lisa Kudro because we had dinner last week, with my wife, Liza and you and Michelle could not be there because he refuses to die with me now. Right. I know. He was at a town. We're just trying to start trouble. No, please. Yeah. Anyway. And so it's so funny when it's formalized this way a little bit, and it used to be worse, not worse because you're always great. But when I would say, when I had a band and it was on TV and they'd be like, All right, how should it come? Lisa Kudro. And you come out and you get, you know, the dress and I'm bowing to you and then getting behind my seat. And I would, I would just flash back to you and I in a Dupar's diner in the late 80s going. Here's a funny idea for a skit. Yeah. You've got to get back to our day jobs. Yeah. So it's your day job was writing. Yeah. At least I had a decent, yeah. Yeah. And you were slinging hash at the headache clinic at the headache clinic, which was given. Why were you slinging hash at a headache clinic? I don't know. You said slinging hash. No. I wanted to be a good improviser. Yeah. That was good. That was good. Now it's a very funny scene. Yeah. Yeah, I'm delighted that you're here. People get very excited when you come huge fans here. And so Paula Davis. who we were just talking about before the mics came on, who's been with me forever, who's our booker. She is vibrating for, I would say a month now, talking to me about the comeback and the new season of the comeback. - That's what she was telling me. - Oh, but she's doing a re-watch. - But she's not the only one. I have so many friends that are telling me the comeback and because they know that you and I go way back, people are asking me questions about it. - I don't know anything. - A lot of people from my life couldn't watch seasons one and two. They couldn't handle it. - It was tough. - And I think probably for you, even though you're too supportive to say it, but my husband hasn't seen them. Do you know that? - Really, I didn't know that. - Michelle has not seen all of season one or all season two. - I think that's really sweet. I watched both of them and thought it was brilliantly funny but because I'm such good friends with you and care about you, it's hard. It's hard. - I just don't even know what anyone is talking about with that. I can't. - I'll tell you specifically. - It makes me nervous that I'm something's wrong with my version of reality because you're not the only one. - Right. - Because they're so humiliated for her. - Well, you play it and everyone hears, you play it so brilliantly close to the bone. And for me anyway, there was the character of the writer, Polly G, who was just so mean. And that actor did such a great job, especially in season one, he was so good at being a type of writer, I know. - Right. - And it made me, but not supporting you at all. Making just wearing away your confidence and so much anger and bringing so many of his own issues to that situation that, because, I don't know, I've been in that world, it was hard. It was hard just like, I told you I wanted to like, fight him at one point, I said, I don't want to meet him 'cause I think I want to hit him with a two by four. - Right. - And poor guy, he's a lovely guy and a terrific actor, but he needs a beating because-- - But listen, I mean, 'cause we have a writer's room, the first season, and every one of them knew that guy. So we weren't making him up. And the thing is, is that, to me, it was really obvious that this guy thought he was having a promising career. You know, we hear that he was a Simpson's writer. He wanted Emmy and, you know, and now he has this show and then the network tells him, no, it has to be this. Oh, and by the way, just to hedge our bets. There's a companion reality show. And it's, that would be an raging-- - Yes. - To any showrunner. - Yes. - And he is a particularly asshole-ish, right? And that's whatever feelings he has about her. 'Cause she is annoying. She is sort of phony, and what do you do with that? And just shut up, right? - Right. And I've been, that's been a solid five minutes, of me, Mar-a-Logging, by the way. But to me, it was really obvious. Like what, he's pissed off about. - Yes. - And, okay. - And, oh, that's fair. I just, there's a, there's a, there's a, - And he's punishing her. - Yes. - But did she seem punished? - Well, she's-- - So, and I says no. - No, she's like blissfully almost-- - I wouldn't say blissfully. - I would say-- - Maybe, okay. - Valery cherished is-- - Valiently unaware. - Yes. - Valiently unaware. - But also, I think one of the reasons she's that way is she's not completely oblivious. She's, she knows that she's hanging by a thread in this business. She knows that, and, and you play it so well, excruciatingly optimistic in a way that's so forced, because you know that this isn't all going your way, and you're so thirsty. You really want to win that Emmy. You really want, and what's amazing to me is that it really does capture something. You see, out here, you see it out here all the time, is the big for smile. I can't tell you how many times I pass a billboard, and I see a big smiling face of someone who's saying, it's all great, right? And I know that person's miserable. I know they are, I've met them, I know, you know, and I see those faces all over the place because so many people aren't happy in themselves. Do you know what I mean? And so the smile gets bigger. And it, that's what you see a lot of, and I think Valerie Cherish is like the best character, in my opinion, that captures something that exists out here. And I do have a lot of empathy for, but I also think she's not Peter Sellers as Clueso. She's not someone who's oblivious. - No. - Things are, fires are, you know, she knows that, oh, here's the paparazzi, they're not shooting her. They're shooting someone she used to work with. She's trying to get to her, they're stepping on her feet. She knows that it's not going her way, and she's pushing herself through the crowd. - Yeah, I just realized, I just might be really mean. 'Cause that just made me laugh. - Well, it's funny, no it is. - It's not for her. - I mean, not for her. - Yeah, she thinks it is, but it hasn't. - Like, yeah, I don't. - But it's this, it's a, I don't know, it's a really fun. - But to me, what she's doing is like, that's okay. Like, that's her mantra is. - It's okay. - It's okay, it's okay. That's what it takes. You know, like, it doesn't matter. And then, 'cause first, I was just making fun of her. Season one, to me, yes, I am mean. And I was making fun of that. And after we were done, I had a friend, and she's smart this woman, her name's Mirage. She's really great. And she was saying, oh, but no, and she's Irish. So, I don't know, maybe you know her. - Of course, yeah. (laughing) - I see, I see her at the meetings. - The community. - Once we reach for the same potato at the ball, yeah. - Oh my God. - That happens, yeah. (laughing) - She's just a purletator's there. - Right over there. - There was a fight. - But she said, no, isn't she wonderful? She's just, you know, she's so, you can't keep her down. - No, yeah. - You know, there's no one more resilient. No, she's wonderful. She's the strongest person I think I've ever seen. And I just went, huh? And then realized, yeah, because I don't feel bad. - Right. - Playing her. I don't feel decimated. - Yep. - When I'm playing her. - Yeah. - Because I am rejecting the rejection or the insult and turning it into something that she needs, that I need. - Well, she doesn't say no, ever. - Right. - She says, if they say, okay, now you've got to, you know, for this, I'm making this up. But if in the new season they said, okay, to promote this next project, we're gonna, you need to be covered in duct tape. And we're gonna put bunny ears on you and you have to hop down Hollywood Boulevard. You'll be like, all right, well, okay, you know, I mean, you can do it. This is what we're doing. I guess this is what the kids wanna see now. I don't get it. But you would do it in 120 degree heat. - Yeah. - And probably pass out, but she is entrepid. She's brave. I don't know. And just, I-- - She wants what she wants. And whether you think that's a worthwhile goal. - Yeah. - Is another issue, but yeah, she doesn't give up. And there's something, I guess we like that. - So, you know? - Here's something about that. - I don't know. (laughing) - All of a sudden, like, Lindsey Vaughn flashed in my head. - Oh, no. - Everyone likes to come. No, because I was thinking, why is she doing this? - Yeah. - You know, and then like, oh, everyone likes to come back and everyone likes to see that's where I went. Oh, I don't know. It seems dangerous and then-- - This just happened over the weekend. I don't know when this comes out, but Lindsey Vaughn crashed. And I think she fractured her legs. - Yeah. - Yeah. - There is the reality to, you know, she was really brave to make that attempt. But you're right, there's a high level of, there's a slim chance this will work out. - Right. - But that's what makes a comeback so incredible, or the odds against it. - And you can't have a comeback or do that, if you're not just being optimistic and hopeful. - Hopeful. - Against all odds, against like, like, presented right in front of your face. - Right. - I don't know, but yeah, I don't know. We do this every 10 years. - Yes, this is what I wanted to talk about, you know? - This is the thing. This is what I love. But you're so unique about this show, is I think the first one is 2004 or five? - 2004 and came out five. - Yeah, and you were kind of, I mean, it's, I think it's two years or something before keeping up with the Kardashians. It's like, this is, you were doing a satire or something that hadn't, I don't think really formed yet, then you come back 10 years later, and now, which then commented on that moment, and I think a few people would have the patience or the nerve to say, "These come out once every 10 years," but it's real. cool because now I have not seen a second of the third season, but the idea that you can now drop in again a decade later is very unusual. It is, isn't it? Yeah, but I'm so it's so great that we didn't get picked up that first season because it gets to be about something. Right, were you surprised when it didn't get picked up? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was surprised. Yeah. And then you surprised just because it was really good. Thanks. And you think, well, this will now get picked up. Yeah. Of course, I've been wrong about these things before. Yeah. I've had my own experiences, but but wait, what do you mean? I don't know. But I, but I think you've only had an easy time. You're right. Just you and your privilege. I know. Never a bumping, never a bump in the road. What's nice about the world we live in now is shows used to go away all the time. Yeah, but now there's this world where shows can not get picked up, but they, they don't go away. And then you can have this audience build and people who, and if you make, I mean, I've seen it with so many, like party downs, an example of a show that I don't think was getting a lot of attention, but you can check in on it years and years later. And it's almost like the wire. You know, there are these comedy shows that, okay, didn't see it, didn't support it. You check in much later on. I wasn't aware of party down. And then you, you see it and you go, oh, they've really, they've made a nice little Swiss watch here. Yeah. And it's just as good now as it would have been if I had tuned in the day it came out. And definitely the comeback had that. Yeah. Where it was building and building. And you probably experienced a lot of people when you're out at the supermarket to get your. The supermarket is where all the fans of the comeback are. They are. They're there. They're there in the produce lane. And you're there like, what about those malons? And you're like, hey, the comeback. But I go to a lot of supermarkets. But you must have had that experience where you're hearing from people. I love that. And so you didn't hear that necessarily from the, you know, the people that made the show or broadcast the show. Right. But you knew I'm hearing from way too many people. Well, even when it was when we were on, we heard David Bowie got in touch with HBO because he was going to be on tour. He didn't want to miss anything. So send him. Wow. Whatever. I know 2005 DVDs or whatever it is. Look, I'm looking like, I don't know. We don't remember. Then you find out the other shows David Bowie wanted. I didn't get the latest fear factor. Were they eat shit? Can you have that one, please? You're like, David. But and then we fell like, oh, okay. Yeah, that's right HBO. That's all they need to hear probably. And you know, we had a lot of bad reviews because people didn't understand what they were seeing. Right. And then by the time halfway through, there were revised reviews, like retractions and. And which is pretty what happened. Yeah. So we and also our ratings. We were doing as well. If not better than entourage when it's for a season was just the year before and went, all right. So great. And who else has shows that you don't you've not seen this before you don't really understand and then you get to know what it is and embrace it. And it's great. HBO except they kept telling us, yeah, we're not HBO's not HBO anymore. So I don't know. It's really gotta. I don't know. We'll see. I don't know. And then it turns out I only found out a couple years ago. There was one guy at HBO that I don't know if I ever even met him in charge who was just like, we're not going to pick that up. Right. Yeah. So well, but I have to say, yes, it was a surprise that we didn't get picked up, but I didn't feel bad. Right. And I was in shock that I didn't feel bad because I thought, well, look, this is about the best I can do. And I think we did it about the best that it could be done. So I've got nothing to feel bad about. It's not my mistake. Yeah. So I don't know. I didn't feel bad. Well, that's I'm glad. Yeah. You should have felt a little bad. Oh, no. I'm just sorry. I felt bad later. Yeah. When I as long as you felt bad at some point. No, I did. Good. Oh, no, don't worry. Good. Oh, I felt bad. No, no, like got wrenching. Yes. Yeah. A hole in my in your soul. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good. And my soul. That's necessary for good work. Yeah. I'm okay. Yeah. You'll you'll have it one day. But here's the thing. It wasn't because it was canceled. It was because someone else, it was Bill Mar talking about something and jokes that don't land because like one joke and it was famous. I don't remember someone making fun of someone who's marginalized or, you know, like a victim or and he was saying, look, you want to make fun of white men? You can make fun of white men. All you want. Okay. Because they've got the power. Yeah. But don't make fun of that person or that thing. And I went, women are still, you know, you can't make fun of women in that way. Like you can't. Oh, no. They're just it's too they're too easily recognized as victims. Yeah. And I went, no. I never thought of it that way. I'm such an idiot. I mean, because so much great comedy, I mean, yeah, women do. Yes. The old ball, you know, Tina Fey, so many great, uh, on and on and on have made fun of themselves as women. And it's brilliant, you know, yes, but now this wasn't the same. This was a man being cruel to her. And I thought, no, it's a writer, you know, have giving a hard time to an actress. Like, like, why is that a big shock and horror? I mean, that's when what do you think? What do you think actors and especially actresses have put up with forever? Yeah. You know, and haven't. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway. So you prove me wrong. Yeah. I take it back. I'll never say it again. I get it. No, I get it. I get what she's saying. What do you give us your input here? I just think I actually think it's part of the reason why she was so just kind of like, okay, just taking it is because she's used used to it. I mean, that's how it's always been right. It's not going to change. Exactly. Yeah. You've got to, like, here's here are the boundaries. Yeah. And so you just work within them around them. You know, that's all. Yeah. And I mean, look, I don't know if it's because I've, I don't know if it's, I never felt like, oh, I'm a woman. And so, you know, I don't get to, I don't know. I mean, on some level, yes, especially with this, it just didn't occur to me. It's like, this isn't gender specific ambition or hopes and dreams. So it didn't occur to me that it would be an issue at all. And I think it kind of was that it was a woman. But, um, now, when you come back 10 years later and you do the second season, yeah, you, did you feel more assured that I know, I really know who this character is. I know there's a lot of fans. People are excited for us to return. Did it feel different? Kind of. I mean, it's a little scarier because then there's expectations. And, and what Michael, Patrick King and I knew was it's 10 years later, she's 10 years older and it's going to be different. It has to be different. And, um, you know, and then I just thought it was great that we had her win the Emmy. Yeah. For a performance she couldn't even appreciate in herself because she was stuck on how tired she looked in the scene. And, um, and I liked, I liked that a lot for her. And then, of course, the huge thing is that she, you know, leaves the Emmys that you hosted. Thank you. And, um, I got paid. Oh, you did. I told them you didn't have to. That's it was. That makes me mad. Yeah. Yeah. It was validated parking. That was my payment. Yeah. But, um, I needed to say I'm kidding. It's disturbing when you'll say something like, yeah, and I hope something horrible happens to Conan. I'm kidding. That I'm kidding. Chills me more. Oh, okay. It could be real. It could be true. Uh, I'm explaining in the joke. So I was really see yourself. I was really sad about, um, the character of Mickey. Yes. The actor who plays your. And the actor Mickey Robert Michael Morris. Yeah. And he, he was such a so terrific. And he completely nailed this kind of person that we all know, especially in this business. Someone who's been with you will long time is in your corner and it's just you all you were getting was you know undeluted support from him but and of course he's not perfect but I just I was very obviously sad you know that that he had passed and that character is just kind of note perfect I think yes he is and also biting his tongue like he had so many takes he was sort of a little bit of a reality check sometimes she's saying something and you're wondering like that's stupid right and then you like they switch over to Mickey who's looking confused or yeah why'd she say that yeah yeah he was great yeah and that was a horrible loss I mean I I couldn't even think about doing more yeah yeah for a really long time because we'd been talking about it and you know knew that it would it might be possible you know to do more but no it took me a really long time to get over Mickey yeah yeah but yeah he was great and you know he wasn't he was sick when we were shooting that season and when our first day we were we had to walk back and forth a lot somewhere I don't know and he had to sit down he said I don't know if I can do this and Michael Patrick King you know who knew him and from college that was his college acting teacher and and he came over and he just said you can do it of course you can do it and I said yeah whatever you need and he got as over the course of shooting he got better and better and better and his doctors said what are you doing because everything's good like the disease is not progressing yeah whoa we don't what are you doing so I don't it's that stuff I I love hearing stories about that yeah happening which because we don't understand it but it makes a hundred percent we believe it I I believe there have been times where I haven't felt well and then I've gone out and done a show for a really big audience you know what a theater or something and I I I feel great afterwards yeah and you think okay this is adrenaline but it's also community I got my people around me I'm getting all this positivity right right you're getting this bath that is very you know life-saving right it's it's so I totally understand that yeah I I right I mean we didn't look if COVID taught us anything well taught us a lot of things but to me one of them was boy our immune systems are everyone's is different and wow the it seems like what activates it and what you know what helps it along and how much of wellness is immune system and then other things and we don't know to me it just meant oh that's right we don't know most everything about our bodies and our universe and every we don't know a lot well I get most of it but okay I'm sorry I just do you know he does that stuff yeah I do okay yeah can you explain anything about the news I don't think you would understand oh okay okay I'm sorry but do you know what I mean it's just do I know what you mean yeah I'm just thinking on like I'm thinking in like the ninth dimension you know so there's only so much I can do for you people that's true you know what's interesting that's true I just I'm sorry I'm a little bit honest and then oh it's all this by the way I mean I think Conan is so smart that he could explain physics no not physics physics I don't understand you don't no I really never take physics now I mean I did in my high school but I I you know when they start saying oh time is a relative well I of course I understand that I'm the one who explained it to Einstein oh okay but no there's so much I don't understand that I believed to that oh okay that was you yeah yeah went back in time and he was like what is man what are you doing in my patent office hey equals MC squared buddy and grow out a mustache and then I see you back to the future yeah anyway that's Conan you guys yeah yeah the accent was spot on well that was Einstein yeah can I hear it again oh I'm trying to work into patent office okay and I feel who's this Irish lady I'm the dude man you look like a Jane Lynch shut up he didn't say squared time is relative yeah he just yeah I do explain it to you so here's an interesting thing about you is that you've experienced this real this real victory in this space with the comeback but you also got to experience that failure oh no no but if that's where you were going that would be great yes yes you I don't know I don't know what you were doing before the comeback it just didn't pop whatever it was no my point being that you with friends you could arguably say you got to be in the last giant communal TV yeah you know mega hit that no one at the time realized this is maybe the last of these where everyone's gonna watch this show and it's a cultural cultural touchstone and this is where we all are watching these people go through this this life that was such a phenomenon yeah and very few people get to be in the nose cone of that rocket and you've had both these both very different experiences but the success you're having now is the is the success of this new way of experiencing TV as opposed to the massive you know it's cheers level happy days massive and I'm just curious like you've experienced them both and I don't think a lot of people have it's got to be an unusual yeah to have both of those okay I was it that's all you don't need to comment because that's what I feel like but also it's a different it's a very it's it's it's a very it's a great piece of work that is that fits this new medium really well in my opinion which is okay I just try to understand because what do you mean times relative yeah yeah see a guy's on a train and he's passing a station now what if someone on the station throws an orange see that's what I'm hearing simultaneously while you're talking about the other thing because time full because you're existing yeah you're on those holes at the time right okay yeah I'm saying hi I'm Lisa yeah yeah yeah I mean I'm also at that point in my life now too I'm traveling I'm existing on this plane in 2026 but I'm also right now in 1986 and I'm buying tons of Lisa Kudra stock and now I'm rich it was exciting when I went public I made it killing I know some of you were started buying Lisa when friends hit the air but not me I was there in the olden days when we were in a weird basement doing improv right for absolutely nobody I think that one night we had one person in the there was a rat they applauded and they had good they had good suggestions but they kept they were the same suggestions virulent disease rat you said that already you were so bad at me what I felt like there were days we were doing this you're just looking like we're doing this I was we were in a performing in a theater that was at the bottom of the Scientology Center and no one would come in and there was one person I think one night there was one or two people in wow theater that and we did our show anyway we were like the real pros perform even when there's one or two people let's go and then afterwards I was just embittered and she was my you know I'm so honest at least it's always super honest with me and I just she would when I would be down or if someone was doing performances that were hacky I'd put my head in my hands like this and she'd say they can see you yeah you're being a dick right you're right you're right I forgot that subtle compared to what you were doing you know what you were doing yeah I don't know I get oh pulling my hair out yeah you know that you know that bit that funny bit when he's like and I'm saying you're a terrible person that's not nice yeah that's not a nice thing to do I wore my heart on my sleeve I know when it came to comedy yeah and that was not always a good thing. And I needed to just feel like it's good. - You just need to put a sheet over me. You just need to put a sheet over me when someone went up to do a nerd character and had tape around the middle of their glass and was going, "Mmm, you ain't been breaking "on a new formula, am I like computers?" And Lisa just needed to have, you need to have a tarp that they put over a barbecue outdoors. You just need to have one that you put over me so that they couldn't see. - No, it wasn't. - They wanted to die. - Wait, who's going, oh, you're going up? Okay. (all laughing) Give me a second. - Conan, we're going to put the tarp on now. Then you just see a quivering tarp with steam coming off of it. - With fists coming out. - Okay, listen, what is this beat up Conan Day? So does not going to stand for that. - Yeah, yeah, I am. - Oh, okay. - You're going to encourage him. - I'm going to encourage him to laugh and I'm going to enjoy it. - Yeah, we're good. - But to me, it's not beating up on you. It's just, we had a highly attuned antenna for subpar comedy and that's the whole thing about classes everyone's learning. What their clown is, don't you hate that expression for your clown? - Yes. - I mean, yeah, anyway. That's what that grounding teacher's like, you just got to find your clown and I get really mad. - The one thing I still can't do to this day is improv warm-up exercises. And there have been, I didn't like them back in the 80s and I just wanted to go out there and do the thing and I didn't want to play these games backstage to have us all get in the mood or something. - Right, me neither, not in the mood. - And then, yeah, and it's these games like, I look at you and go, you look at me and go, and you're always in an alley somewhere in Hollywood and it smells like urine and you're going, and I would say, can we just not do this. I will pay you, I will pay you if we don't have to do this. And be like, you have to do it, man. It's really good. - We had to do that recently. - We did, we did a show for charity and backstage. Again, in an alley in Culver City, I think, and someone said, okay, everybody, what's warm-up, what's play, skittily that lead-ee. - I know, what is that? - What is that really, what is it? - I don't know what it is, I don't know. - No, I didn't know what the thing was. They were even telling the game. - I didn't know either, and I said. - But it was an involved thing. But first, you had to like, skidip it, like just like, no. - And I was begging, I was saying, can I just not do this? - Yeah, why did you do this? - I think we did it a little bit, then just went, all right. - Okay. - Moving on. - Is it time? I think it's time. - Yeah, I don't know if we have time for this. - I made the sound of a siren. I said, oh, I think someone got hurt somewhere. We better go inside. Oh, the cops are coming. We better clear out. - Is that a gun shot? - Yeah. Kapow! That's not a gun, Conan. That's a terrible gun. Now, get back to your bloop. I said blip, you gotta say it. Anyway, that's just me. I wasn't built for that. - No, I didn't like it either. I almost quit because I didn't like what I saw in the first improv class where it's like, throw a space ball and they're just, and be angry and they're just like, "Gurr!" I just went, that's what I have to do. Maybe I'm not, this isn't for me. - You know, it's interesting that I've always thought, and this is something that's true of legitimate acting, which is not what I do. But the line between it being great and you absolutely humiliating yourself is so razor thin. And, you know, a lot of acting classes, kind of, you need to just put that stuff all aside and strip yourself of all your, and I think of your defenses and then sob or roll around on the floor or pretend you're a jelly bean or all that kind of stuff. And I thought, "Yeah, did you go, "Mm, like, good jelly bean?" Or, "That was you being jelly bean?" I was like, "Mm, yeah, yeah, I love jelly bean." - I go, okay, good jelly bean. - Well, that's a good day, though. - Yeah. (laughing) - Is a good day. - But I don't know, I always thought, "Oh, no, all I am is if I weigh 190 pounds, 185 of it are defense mechanisms." (laughing) And then some hair and maybe some teeth so I can't, I'm not gonna get rid of all that stuff. I can't do it. I mean, I have my hats off to people that can do it. I have a lot of respect for actors. - But you still use so much improv. You've learned something. Both of you did learn a lot, I'm guessing, unless you already were just natural improvisers. - Both of us brought some of our own way we think to it. And then, yes, you learn great rules, great tools. - About listening, listening, talking, responding, and then just, and committing, and that was the first thing. I learned, watching him, he was really committed to throwing a ball, and you didn't look, no, no, no. But there was no ball, pretending there was a ball, and it looked like he was throwing a ball, and he looked a little angry, but not over the top. No, you did it, and that's what acting is, which is why you can act. I let you say all that, you know, 'cause I felt like you really wanted to. (laughing) - No, you can, you can act. You can act, because you know how to listen and respond, isn't that all it is? - I guess, I don't know what it is. - I don't either. - Yeah. (laughing) - I'm not gonna study it. - Whatever you're doing, keep doing it. - All right. - That's what I'll tell you. (laughing) - You? (laughing) - I don't know, I don't know. I mean, maybe you have questions for Lisa, 'cause, you know, I know Lisa so well, and I-- - Out of work done, yeah. - But I know Lisa so well that some, these are interesting interviews for me always, because sometimes I think, well, we just talked about that at dinner. - Right. - So then I think, oh, I wanna make sure that the people listening get some stuff that isn't just me, 'cause I know Lisa so well, you know? - I mean-- - Does that make sense? - Yeah, I totally get. I think that I do have a lot of questions about you guys starting off together, in terms of, are you both kind of the same people as you were back then, you think? - Yes, you are, I am. - I don't think you are. - I think I'm very much the same. I will tell you, we both had not great cars. - So you have better cars now. - You're a fear of you. (laughing) - That was, no, I'm just talking about like, we gotta start somewhere that people can understand. - That was my car. - You had a Dotson Z, yeah. - And it was fun. - It's 280 Z. - You had a 280 Z. - I tried to remove my dads, but that's a nice stuff. - No, it was a fine car. I'm just saying it was-- - It was a great-- - Wasn't always clean. - And then-- - Oh, I could get a little-- - Oh no, my cars were never clean and I smoked, so-- - Oh, you did? - Yeah. - What? I don't know, I did. Of course I did. - For 20 years. - Oh my God. - Okay. - Pack a day. - No, Lisa. - What, I did it just part-time poorly. (laughing) - And I used to say you could do better at smoking. (laughing) You could, I would get mad. You'd be smoking, but not enough. And I'd be like, "Come on!" (laughing) You could do better. - Are you winning your mouth? - Yeah, I'm winning your mouth. - You got to be a three pack of day smoke, Alisa. - Did you wear a smoke? - No. - To keep up. - No, if I smoked, I would look-- I was very aware that if I smoked, I would look like a kid who got into a pack of cigarettes. (laughing) And like the teacher came by and went, "Put those down, Augie." - I'm picturing you next to Lisa though with those candy cigarettes. - Yeah, yeah, puffing little powdered sugar. - Oh, and I started smoking this summer. I was at Harvard. - Well, we were there at the same time. 'Cause you went, you were there in the summer. - We were there at the same time. - And I used to work on the lampoon in the summers there. So I never missed a summer there. - And I was there. - So I was there. - There went summer. And that's when I started smoking. 'Cause those fucking bugs, those flying water bugs is big as your fish. - What does that have to do with you eating to smoke? Who says there's too many bugs? I need to smoke. (laughing) Why? - 'Cause it terrified me. It stressed me out so much. And I didn't tell you the part that made it so bad as I'm sleeping and I hear a jet has flown into my room. - Oh God. - Okay, 'cause it's these old crappy buildings next to the river and there's no screens on them, but there's no air conditioning because you know, it's the East Coast. And well, that's how it shows. - East Coast. - East Coast in the '80s. (laughing) And it was an old, an old charming dorm building. And so the windows were open. And I went, what, something mechanical flew into the room. It was the loudest. And there was a giant water flying cockroach water but this big, you're looking like, I don't know what she's talking about. - No, no, no, no. I'm not talking about it. - I was there. I didn't see it. - There can be some big bugs, but it never made me think, I need a smoke. - Okay. - And then it was on my, and it was just like on my wall. So now it's this big. On my wall and I went, okay. And I grabbed my shoe, dumbass. Throwing a tennis shoe, that's way too slow. As I throw it, it's flying toward my head. And then I couldn't sleep and, you know, there were cigarettes somewhere and I just started smoking and it calmed me down 'cause nicotine is wonderful. - Oh. - It's really tough. - It's good stuff. - Never had it. - Yeah. And then another one flew in and they became pets. (laughing) There was no getting them out and there was no choice. - We got them out. little toys figured out their favorite for 14 years. You know what Robert Swaggle said to me once he looked at me when I was being insane about something and tightly wound and he said you're the only person I know who would be healthier if he smoked. Oh, they're smoking and the breathing and the nicotine you it would extend your he said Conan it would extend your life it's bad for everyone else but you and I have some I'd think about that sometimes because Robert's been right about a lot of things and now I think at my age if I started now I'm like come on how much damage could I do no but this has nicotine in it so oh nicotine gum yeah look I didn't even take one but I have it this is turning into an ad for starting to smoke which I don't want it to be although I'm a little intrigued. Well I don't wait but I do want to say something because you said are you different and here's you are a little different how I mean we should be should we yeah don't you think sure okay but you had told like when we met different from when I was in 1986 well yeah I mean I should hope so I don't think you're as tightly wound no I'm not okay good he was worse he was worse than he is okay no he's not working for you you have been gotten a lot more chill yeah I see that too but he told me that he would be so tightly wound like something I can't either I don't remember I just don't want to say no because you were telling me something happened to college and it upset you and you sat and you quietly just like took a part of chair yeah really just like quietly yeah patiently yeah with rage wow yeah is something in the comedy realm hadn't gone my way and I went back to my room and there was a very sturdy wooden chair that they have at Harvard that has like the Harvard insignia on it and I quietly was pulling out all of the pieces of the chair yeah I had that in me I if there's a there's a guy in here who scares me but is that scary because maybe this is scary you told me that story and I went yeah right yeah yeah you can't actually yeah I went in front of no no I would never turn that on anyone the person I beat up on mostly is me and writers who need a physical beating every now sure well no I yeah but I mean I mean we of course we both change I think having kids changes you too yeah yeah like I love and I said this recently on someone else's podcast but so much of being young is being narcissistic so it's necessary you kind of have to be a narcissist when you're young and it's got to be all about you and your problems have to be the biggest thing in the world because you are going through life and it's the stakes are big and then once my daughter showed up and then later my son I remember instantly knowing oh yeah I don't count anymore it I'm not I get it yeah and liking it like it's about them yeah I've got to be here for them and just even thinking about it I'm much calmer yeah so I yeah you need to be having kids when I was 15 that's what you that's what you were built for yeah exactly yeah all of us are my kids settled down dead what do you have acne shut up I gotta go to high school now well not yet but next year you guys settled down I'm gonna go watch Star Trek reruns well I am I think we're all thrilled anytime you drop in thanks and so excited for the new season of the comeback which is a jewel it's just so beautifully made and really looking forward to it and I love you you're one of my favorite people in the history of the world oh come on seriously yeah you are mine too you just did a me too yeah okay I mean come on I want more I think you gushed enough yeah it wasn't enough thank you for your thank you mail it yeah here comes a bird with it if you'd give me your address yeah yeah let's play split stop baby you got to warm up for him pop baby baby okay Lisa Kudrow peace out two pop okay I'm gonna break into this programming now with urgent urgent news update David hopping just saw the back street boys at the sphere and whatever you're doing if you're driving right now I want you to pull over to the side of the road if you're listening cooking dinner dinner I mean just order order out because this is just too important David what was this experience like back street boys the sphere paint the picture because America wants to know okay hi America it was America just hung up this is one person named America yeah it's America Ferrara she does not want to hear this story it was on my birthday we drove to Vegas got there with no traffic we got there under four hours which that's nice oh when people love that part of the story um and whenever you hear about seeing an iconic band at the sphere you said paint the picture people's favorite story is about the commute okay I love I love that you consider the back street boys iconic this is nice place you didn't see my I have put little quotes around it okay no they come on they love the back I'm not gonna shit on the back street boys I'm just didn't I didn't know they were your cup of tea I'm just saying this is a huge band whether or not I know all their songs I know a few of them let's get to the place do it before it's not done doing which goes yeah do it for it's not done hey hey do it she's all that and a corn sandwich they have some great songs that are part of the American experience yeah but anyway just get to the good part to the sphere we had and we stopped and we got canned pages sorry go ahead I got a drink and a souvenir cup has all their faces on it then we walked we had standing on the floor so have you been at the sphere I haven't been to this because like so and I get excited about like the little things in life yeah walking into this seeing the huge screen was everything and then everyone stuck to you were supposed to wear all white to the concert why why everyone because it's like their um millennium album cover they're all wearing white oh I thought they were all saving themselves from marriage which I admire like a virginal yeah they're a virginal yeah yeah they're all like pushing 60 they're like when the time comes I want it to be special and now for my next hit gotta get going to the place where we go yeah that's a big one um everyone stuck to the theme though everyone wore white that's great and then they came out and I've never seen anything like this like the it was like space theme so there's like a spaceship above you and it's like everyone's like looking up I missed them even coming out on the stage because the visuals were just so cool is it so I'm getting a sense they didn't need to be there they did their music was everything well it was the way the music and then you could look at your spaceships and then you know whatever they got anybody get up there they needed to be there okay Eduardo's going soon are you going to the back street boys no no no I'm going to catch no doubt okay yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm taking my wife my niece yeah I don't know if they've ever had a comedy show though you should try to be like the first person you know how I prefer to watch no doubt when they premiere on my show in New York I want to flex 1993 so the sphere yeah I want to go to here's what I want to do I want to go to the sphere when they're featuring something that in no way is enhanced or benefited by the sphere yeah do you know what I mean I want to go when all they're doing is someone's playing a banjo and they're rebroadcasting Walter Cronkite's last episode of the news and it's just a regular news program where at the end he's and they just run that a couple of times and someone plays a banjo and it's all around you on the sphere no special effects it's just Walter Cronkite saying it's been an honor and a pleasure and you know take care and be well yeah tonight you know or something that doesn't even use the screen at all it's like two people having a guest lecture on like AI and they're not even no no you use the screen because at one point the two people giving a lecture mention I'll be talking about this at a separate conference which is on March 3rd and just the date March 3rd comes up in tiny font in small font on one part of the sphere those are the things I want to go see at the sphere I want my dream is to misuse the sphere let me be very clear I will go and do something at the sphere that completely misuses that amazing technology you have a point presentation I'm like a timeshare and Vegas yeah and then you're just like holding a thing just one little part it's one little square they couldn't even see it People know, here's the thing, you can kind of see it. important to me. You can kind of see it. And I go on and on. Oh my God. Yeah, that's how I want to use the sphere. But anyway, see how to get time at a great time. It was yeah. And then at the end, I was actually texting Sona after because it's just a bunch of drunk backstreet boys fans all walking in some hallways singing their songs together. Yeah. And if you look closely, some of the backstreet boys are in with them. And it isn't that job job. What are their names? Well, there's Nick. There's AJ. There's Nick. Oh, there's Nick. I don't know. Is there Nick? Yeah. Okay. I want to just make that up. Is everyone okay? Everyone's healthy? Everyone's healthy? Yeah. They're all there. Okay. It's like the new kids on the block also are in Vegas. They're all there. Oh, I know they're there. I'm trying to pick a date to go see them. You need to do those guys ever joined forces, you know, like it's like Marvel and DC where that's not allowed. No, they've they've talked together before. Oh, they all get together. Yeah. Oh, I just thought I had this cool idea. Oh, no, you thought you and can they then join up with another group? Like, you know, Minuto or if you can you ever get another group that joins them? So those two United Backstreet Boys and new kids on the block. But then who else could join? We need an Ensenc reunion. Oh, in sync. I mean, it can be 98 degrees. It could be O-town. Why did you got them all together? I mean, all together. And then didn't let them perform. What do they do? They're giving the power. No, you you get them all together backstage and then you lock the door. And then I go out and I show a I show a little time share lecture. It's projected on one small part and they have to watch it and they can't get out. They can't get out the ultimate bait and switch. I love it. You'll be murdered. Yeah. A lot of people have tried a lot of people have tried old women are taking a swing at me every day. All right. There's my pitch. Sphere. Call me peace out. Tupac. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonom of Sessian and Mac Gourley, produced by me, Mac Gourley, executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leo, theme song by The White Stripes, incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples, engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns, additional production support by Mars Melnick, talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista and BrittCon. You can rate and review this show on Apple podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of Sirius XM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com/Conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien, needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are down below. 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