Lindsay Clancy’s Disturbing Messages: Were They Really Hers?

I think I sort of resent my other children because they prevent me from treating Cal like my first baby. Lindsay Clancy notes and search history revealed. And you treat yourself the only child. How'd you slit your throat to die? Can you turn airbags off on Kia's Toronto? But are we 100% certain Lindsay made these searches? But you don't know that it was Lindsay that was actually using that computer to search for Tom Hall, right? I don't know who was sitting behind that. You don't know that Patrick Clancy plays a guitar, do you? I do not. This is Scandal, presented by Lawn Cron. I'm Sierra Gillespie. The intensity of the Lindsay Clancy trial will not let up both inside the courtroom and out. Lindsay Clancy now stands trial for three counts of murder. And the live streams of the courtroom and the proceedings have truly taken the world by storm. He did cross-exam, heartbreaking evidence, and even major emotion from the defendant and jurors alike. But at the same time, another court is fully in session, and that's the court of public opinion. Trial watchers, tiktokers, Reddit users, they all cannot stop talking about this case. And it's not without justification, by the way. People are really zeroing in on Lindsay Clancy's notes app. And the searches she allegedly made leading up to the deaths of her children. And the evidence presented in court is worth paying attention to, like this, for example. There was a Google search for Tom Hall. And so on the Wikipedia, someone clicked on death and it brought them down to that portion. Correct. That's it. That's your testimony. That's why you're here today to talk about a search that was involving Tom Hall. Did you know, sir, that on August 23rd, prior to your report indicating the Facebook account that Mr. Clancy signed in and it was Mr. Clancy's email that accessed the Facebook account for Lindsay Clancy? I did not. The prosecution's theory is that Lindsay acted with premeditation. They point to things like the Apple Maps searches, an alleged resentment towards her children, as a reason why she would allegedly commit murder. The defense has worked hard to poke holes in those theories, admitting, yes, Lindsay did kill her kids. But arguing she's not criminally responsible because she didn't act with premeditation. And was in the midst of a postpartum psychosis mental break at the time. The defense raised questions about who exactly made the searches in the first place. He's welcoming from Lindsay's spot, right? I can't confirm that. We're going to take you through all the notes, that messages and the searches and breakdown what they all mean with our expert guess. But before all of that, let's start with the basics. Lindsay Clancy is accused of murdering her three young children, five-year-old Kora, three-year-old Dawson, and eight-month-old Kallen Clancy. This happened on January 24th, 2023 and the Clancy's Duxbury, Massachusetts home. Now, the Commonwealth alleges Lindsay sent her then-husband Patrick Clancy out to run some errands and used that time to kill her three children, to strangling them with exercise bams. When Patrick returned home, he reportedly found Lindsay outside. She'd slit her wrists and throat, taken some crushed up medication, and jumped from a second story window. She survived this suicide attempt but was paralyzed from the waist down. And while the prosecution alleges murder, Lindsay's defense team disagrees. They admit she killed the children, but say she was in the midst of a mental health break having struggled with postpartum psychosis. They argue. That means Lindsay isn't criminally responsible, and thus can't be guilty of murder. Today, the defense began its case, so we'll see where all of that takes us, but in the meantime, we have to take a closer look at the search history that has everyone talking. So let's start with the infamous Surface Pro, Patrick Clancy's computer. Here's forensic computer examiner, Kyle Povale. Did you have an opportunity to examine the extraction of a Surface Pro that was seized from 47 Summer Street in Duxbury, on or about September 16th, 2025? >> I did. >> And to be clear, the Surface Pro was seized from 47 Duxbury Street in 2023. It was in 2025 that you examined the extraction, correct? >> That is correct, let's provide those files. >> Did your initial review of the extraction show a visit to a website entitled Suicide Methods on August 23rd, 2022? >> It did. >> Were you recently asked to look at that visit to that site to get a better understanding of how that website was accessed? >> That was correct. >> And how did you approach that? >> I set a parameter, I went to that artifact that I had previously tagged when I did the initial analysis. >> Povale testified he looked at the site for 12 hours before and 12 hours after the search about Suicide was made, searching for what he called digital artifacts. And that led here. So with regard to this case and looking into how that site suicide methods was accessed, what did you learn, or what did you see? >> When I went back. >> Yeah, so go ahead. >> So the first thing I saw was a Facebook visit at 9.40 that morning. >> 9.40 am on August 23rd, 2022? >> Correct. And what was the Facebook? >> It was the link was link dot say dot, I believe it was 9.68. >> So Lindsay with a dot in between the D and the S, 9.69? >> 9.69 correct. >> And after the visit to the Lindsay dot 9.69 Facebook page, what happened next? >> There was a search and Spotify music for the singer Tom Hall. >> What time was that at? >> It was truly after- >> Is your memory exhausted? >> Yes. >> Do you have your report with you with permission? >> That was at 9.42. >> So approximately two minutes after the Facebook account was accessed. >> Correct. >> And that website, was that a Wikipedia page? >> No, that was Spotify. >> I'm sorry, Spotify, Spotify music. And then what did you see next? >> There was a song off of that search in Spotify. >> Was that the, that's how I got to Memphis song? >> Yes. >> And was that at 9.44 in 18 seconds, AM? >> Yes. >> Then what happened next? >> There was a Google search for Tom Hall. >> And was that at 9.44 in 30 seconds, AM? >> Yes. >> And what did you learn from that Google search? >> Off of that Google search, there was the Wikipedia page for Tom Hall was visited. >> And were you able to use the Wayback website to see what that Tom Hall page on Wikipedia looked like around the time of August 23rd, 2022? >> I did. >> Is this a copy of that Wikipedia page from the Wayback Machine? >> Yes. >> Okay, this is important to remember. Lindsay's Facebook was visited first before there was a search made for Tom Hall. Now Tom Hall was a country singer who was inducted to both the country music hall of fame and the international bluegrass music hall of fame. On August 20th, 2021, he died by suicide. And according to expert testimony, someone searched Tom Hall and took an extra length to research how he died. >> Could you see what happened next at once the Wikipedia page for Tom Hall was visited? >> So I saw there was an anchor on the URL to the death section. So an anchor would be put at the end of a URL, so a web address. So what an anchor does, it's a pound sign followed by a section of that page. So if you think of it as say you go on your banking website and it lists like a table of contents and it has log in, mortgages, rates. If you click on let's say rates, it's going to jump all the way down to that page, just to that section. So it's a table of contents that's going to direct you directly to a certain section of the web page. >> And so on the Wikipedia, someone clicked on death and it brought them down to that portion? >> Correct. >> And in the death section, could you tell what happened once the person was in that area of the web page? >> Yes. >> What happened there? So in the description that described, the Wikipedia page described of Tom Hall's death, there was some wording regarding a shooting related to his ultimate suicide. Good. >> Telling you, let's be right back. It was 232. >> It's a portion here under death where it's self-inflicted, gunshot went to the head and underlined that the portion you were referring to? >> Yes, correct. Now, got to the original artifact I had located, which was the Wikipedia suicide method, but it directed it directly to the shooting section of that page. "Could you tell how long the person spent on that page, the suicide methods page, or how long it was accessed?" "No." As this testimony continued, it became clear there was so much evidence here. There's been so much presented so far in the trial, and the defense's cases only just begun. But this is one of those cases where everyone wants to take a deeper dive into the evidence themselves. And now, you can. For behind every major scandal is a paper trail the public rarely gets to see. If you haven't heard yet, you can go beyond the headlines with case files on the Law and Crime+ app. This is where you get direct access to the raw evidence. Uncensored body camera recordings, crime scene images, video recordings of interrogations, and so much more. You can analyze the facts and uncover the truth for yourself. Plus, you get ad-free streaming of all of your favorite law and crime and court TV shows. Unlock the evidence room today. Head over to longcrimeplus.com, enter promo code Scandal, and start your 30-day free trial. And now back to the searches. Povalle testified suicide methods was searched on August 23rd at 9.45 AM. After that, the user searched for the Grafton Bridge in New Zealand, a place that sadly become known for suicide attempts. "And so approximately three minutes after accessing the suicide methods page, the hyperlink for the Grafton Bridge is clicked. Was there any other activity besides going to the suicide methods page and then the Grafton Bridge page, any other activity that you saw within those three minutes?" "I did not know." Here's where Defense Attorney Kevin Reddington came in for cross, not wasting a second. "That's it. That's why you're here today to talk about a search that was involving Tom Hall or Tim Hall to stay in if you can. So your test, I apologize, your testimony today is based on that search on August 23rd, right? "Correct." "Of 22, right?" "And you are working as a state police officer back then, right?" "Yes, sir." "And were you attached to the Plymouth County DA's office or were you working somewhere else?" "I was assigned to the cybercrime unit." "And the cybercrime unit works with the DA's office in place?" "The cybercrime unit's own independent statewide unit." Reddington makes note of who's computer the searches were made up. "So you were tasked to analyze the computer, the Surface Pro computer, right?" "Yes, correct." "And by all accounts that was owned by Pat Clancy, is that correct?" "That is correct." "And it was located in his office, right?" "I don't know where it was located." "Okay." "It's fair to say that when you analyzed the computer back in September, October of 2025, it was an investigatory rule that you were using to locate potential evidence, right?" "Correct." "And what is it you were looking for?" "I was provided a search warrant with search terms, and that's as far as I knew of the case." "And what were the search terms?" "I don't recall specifically, but they were spelled out in the search warrant." Now the Commonwealth noted that before any searches were made for Tom Hall or suicide methods, a user visited Lindsay's Facebook page, kind of insinuating it was Lindsay who made these searches, but Kevin Reddington poses a different theory. "And one of the things that you did is you noted that on August 23rd of 2022, at 940, and 08 seconds, that there was an access to the Lindsay Facebook account, right?" "Oh, there was a visit to that page, correct." "Right." "And then that page continued on to look for Tom Hall and walk in a Memphis or whatever in the songs, right?" "Yes." "On Spotify?" "Yes, after that was a Spotify." "And then the time frame of that would be that you went and went to a hyperlink that took them to the methods of suicide, is that correct?" "That is correct." "Now, were there any searches on that computer for, for example, ways to kill?" "No, there was not." "To your knowledge, and I understand that you might be stuck with what you investigated, but are you aware that there were any searches from Lindsay Clancy or Epadric, and Clancy or a ways to kill? You ever heard that?" "I, in my initial report back in October, that contains all of the evidence artifacts that I had tagged as evidence and provided, I did not come across it, no?" "Right. So basically, what you are leaving with the jury would be that on that date of August 23rd, that approximately 940 in the morning, and then carrying forward with jumping from Tom Hall to the Wikipedia account, to the underlined name, suicide, jumping to that page, that all occurred between 940 and say 10 o'clock in the morning, right?" "Correct." "So was it Lindsay who made these searches or Patrick?" "Did you know, sir, that on August 23rd, prior to your report indicating the Facebook account that Mr. Clancy signed in, and it was Mr. Clancy's email that accessed the Facebook account for Lindsay Clancy?" "I did not." "And that was not included in your report, was it?" "No, it was not." "And you know that the Clancy's had three children, right?" "I did not." "Well, you know that you were working on a case where Lindsay Clancy was the mother and she was married to Patrick Clancy, right?" "Correct." "And did you know, sir, that on August 23rd of 2022 that two-year-old child was brought by Lindsay to South Shore Health for Dawson's ear recheck that he had problems with congestion, with no complaints of ear pain, no fever, and that was on August 23rd of 2022 that he was examined at 10/15 in the morning." "I'm not privy to those facts." "So you don't know that Patrick Clancy's email signed into Lindsay Clancy's Facebook account. You're not aware of that, right?" "It's whatever the default profile was signed into the Chrome browser." "And then that access the Facebook account which looked up Tom Hall, the singer, right?" "Yes, correct." "That then led to the Wikipedia talking about suicide." "That's correct." "Lead to the Spotify talking about somewhere in Memphis, whatever the song was, right?" "Yes." "And this was all occurring from 9/40 in the morning until," like I said, 10 o'clock, they're about, right? "Correct." "You tagged actual data from the Surface Pro as well as the HP laptop, right?" "I did." "And in your July 26 report, you then went into detail about your findings, correct?" "Yes." "And we would agree that that particular webpage was not a search for methods of suicide, it was actually the Tom Hall and the music, right?" "Yes, that's correct." "And then the URL shows access to Lindsay's Facebook profile, correct?" "You accessed and found out that Lindsay's Facebook profile was a web visit." "Right." "Yes, correct." "But you don't know that it was Lindsay that was actually using that computer to search for Tom Hall, right?" "I don't know who was sitting behind that." "You don't know that Patrick Clancy plays a guitar, do you?" "I do not." "You don't know that Patrick Clancy is a music aficionado, right?" "I do not." "The Patrick Clancy enjoyed Tom Hall music, do you?" "I do not know that." "And you certainly don't want to leave it with this jury that Lindsay was looking up ways to commit suicide in August of '22, do you?" "All I'm presenting is the facts that were presented in front of me." The defense also highlighted that leading up to the children's deaths, Lindsay seemingly searched for a plethora of mental health diagnoses and medications. "Now we're jumping ahead to December 5, not August of '22, December of '22. One of the inquiries of the Google searches was what to do when a psychiatrist overprescribed, right?" "Yes." "Searches for medications, right?" "Yes." "Including Lamectol, right?" "Correct." "Can bipolar disorder be temporary, right?" "Yes." "Can Benzo's reveal bipolar disorder, right?" "Yes." "How long are detox programs, right?" "Yes." "What is DBT?" "Uh, I'm just saying that's a search. I don't know." "Oh, yeah." "I don't know." "I had to look that one up too." "Okay." "Lamectol versus Zola, it says Zola fee, but I would suggest it would be Zola left. That was a search, right?" "Yes, car." "What is Mania?" "It was a search, right?" "Yes." "Catiman, for Benzo withdrawal, January 18th of 2023 was a search, right?" "Yes." "Catiman therapy on January 18th of 2023, correct?" "Yes." Both also called another forensics expert to this stand who testified he did an extraction of Lindsay's cell phone back in 2023. Just four days. before the children were killed, she allegedly made a startling search. So if we go here and see page 846 of the document, can you explain for us here? Is this web history, web site visits that are documented on the phone? That's one of the categories listed as an artifact. The items shown here on the screen are all associated with web browsing. And here we see 10773 and 10774 and they both say, "Can you treat a sociopath?" Those are two entries that have basically the same search term, correct? Yes. And that was on January 20th, 2023. Yes. And they both say 82829 PM. So is it possible to do two searches at the same time, like, is displayed there? That search, "Can you treat a sociopath?" was made on January 20th, 2023. The kids were strangled on January 24th, 2023. Months before that, on October 24th, 2022, Lindsey reportedly made a journal entry of sorts on her notes app. It was edited on November 3rd, 2022, but there's no way to tell exactly what was edited. So this is the entry and full. I'm sad and depressed because I'm not able to parent my third child like my first. I want to treat anyone of my babies like my first, but I know that's not a feasible possibility. I'm sad that I stopped the press feeding. I feel not as connected with Cal now. And I know that's not fair to them. I know that. I was feeling so depressed last evening when Corrin Dawson came home from school. I know runs off on them so we had a pretty rough evening. I want to feel love and connection with all my kids. I'm also probably having a bit of an internal conflict because my whole life I wanted to have a lot of kids. I still don't want Cal to be our last, but I have a lot of figuring out to do before I have another. I'm on the fence about starting a new medication for anxiety/depression. I just want to feel happy. I want to be able to relax and take care of my kids. And then when they go to bed at night, I want to deeply relax and hang out with Pat and then fall into a deep sleep for eight hours. Get up and pour hard into myself for an hour and a half. Cal was so very planned and desired. I want to be able to give him all the love he deserves. I guess that's what it's like to be the third child though. He's not the first third child to ever exist. I think I know he'll be okay, but it's really hard for me. I hate that he has to put himself to sleep. I'm sad I'm not breastfeeding anymore, but I think deep down these are the right choices. As with the sleep training, I needed a baby that slept through the night because I simply do not have the opportunity in my life to catch up on sleep. I just don't. If there was a time for me to nap every day, then that may not have been the case, but there really isn't. When cal maps, I have to take care of Koran Dawson. That's just how it is. It feels cruel to me that we did not do that to Cal, but the reality is we did what we had to do. I guess I also feel slightly traumatized by the sleep training, but that feeling was only really present when I was severely sleep-defined and paranoid. I know what we did was the right thing and okay. As for the breastfeeding, it kind of goes hand in hand with the sleep training. Once he started sleeping most of the night, it was then a daily struggle to keep up my milk supply. I was having to take a ton of supplements and constantly think about eating and drinking enough to keep the supply up, and then I was having to think about pumping, actually to keep it up, and that was really hard to do with Koran Dawson around. When I tried to leave Cal to go out with Koran Dawson, I was stressed about the pumping and not to mention the fact that Cal was at home and not taking a bottle, so it was a battle of it, of if I should pump or not. I know I did the right thing because I need to be able to leave Cal with someone and get fed. As much as I don't want to leave him, I need to be able to. I need to be able to be present with my other kids. I still really, really want a fourth child, but I need to really get therapist before then. I'm on the fence about starting a new met or not. I want to feel happy, but it would be nice to feel authentically happy and not fake. But I need to feel happier than I did last evening because then I was pretty depressed and not enjoying any of my children. It was really sad. I needed the breastfeeding off of my plate. I'm struggling so hard because I wanted a parent each of my kids like my first, and since I can't, that's depressing to me. This is definitely the root cause of all our problems. Now I feel like I'm not parenting any of my kids the way I want to, and that makes me sad too, but I'm going to try my best today. Things I love doing that help me love and appreciate and enjoy my kids or activities with them. I definitely started having some depression after court, but once I started getting up and out with her, I felt much better. I think signing cal up for baby music class would be a great thing. Maybe Fridays can be my day with him. I've just fallen out of the habit of doing anything fun, anything for myself, anything with Pat, and I need to work on that. On a positive note, I had a great deep bite of sleep. I'm terrified of something happening to my kids or doing something wrong to mess up their development. Our generation is inundated with information about every aspect of parenting and everything that go wrong if you don't get it right. And all the scary things happening in the world, it's insane. For the last five years, I've just filled my mind with all things parenting and it's just unhealthy. Lindsay seemingly made another note titled "Medication stole motherhood and my life." She created this note on December 22, 2022 and modified it on January 3, 2023 just one day before the children were strangled. It reads, "I was the healthiest, happiest mom. I worked out every morning, meditated, and took care of myself so I could be the best for my kids." Until prescription medications stole me from my own body. It began with a touch of postpartum anxiety. The baby wouldn't take a bottle and I was due to go back to work. He was on a strict nap schedule to get him to sleep through the night. I had three young kids to take care of and was a touch anxious, so I did what you do. Asked a psychiatrist for some zooloft. It took me weeks to take it, but I finally took the plunge. I took 25 milligrams for one week and then on the seventh day I increased to 50 milligrams as instructed by my doctor. Well that night I couldn't sleep a wink. I did take the medication at night and didn't know I was supposed to, but still not a wink. I called my psychiatrist the next morning. She said to stop taking it. The second night I barely slept too. She prescribed Adivant and Benadryl to fall asleep for the next night. That's when everything started going downhill. I took those meds to sleep for two and a half weeks until the zooloft was out of my system and then weamed off the Adivant, followed by the Benadryl. And then once I tried not taking anything I couldn't fall asleep and stay asleep. I had become dependent on the Adivant to sleep but didn't realize it. I went to the ER at South Shore because of palpitations and insomnia. My EKG was normal and they prescribed trasodone for the insomnia. During this half of the testimony the prosecution also highlighted Lindsay's apple maps searches. They say these searches show premeditation. alleging she wanted Patrick out of the house so she could murder the kids. If we could go to 413 p.m. In here in apple maps do we see a three-view restaurant of 413 p.m. Yes. When you're using a map feature to look up a location such as apple maps what type of information do you learn when you plug in a location or an address into apple maps? A route to preview. Does that give you a length of time it would take to travel to that location? Depending on what you indicate here is your original location. Yes. And so if you plug in three-view restaurant to apple maps and it maps out a route to get there does it tell you from your location to three-view how long it would take to get there? Based on traffic conditions, yes. When it was time for the defense questioning of the witness more shocking searches came out for instance. You had access to her phone, right? Yes, sir. And you all went into it with a search warrant, right? Yes, sir. You were looking for different topics such as suicide, drugs, killing kids, time-action, to investigate, right? You had buzzwords. Yes, sir. And did you come across, for example, a search that indicates karate an artery? I don't recall. Did you come across a search on safari? How to slit your throat today? I don't recall. Did you come across a search? Can you turn airbags off on Pia Cemento? I don't recall. Did you know that she had a Pia Cemento? I did not. Here's where the conspiracy theories get going again. Some people have posed the question, why would Lindsay, a labor and delivery nurse, have to google how to slit your own throat or cutting your karate artery? They theorize Lindsay would already know this about the human body. based on her training and schooling, so if it wasn't Lindsay searching this, could it have been someone else hoping to plot her murder? There's another question in here too, about the key of Sorrento. Now that is the vehicle that Lindsay drove, but why make a search about the airbags? Was this an ill-fated plan to murder Lindsay and make it look like a crash? Again, nothing here substantiated or confirmed or even brought up in court, but testimony like this has got people talking online. So what's the first search on the frisk box? The value associated with the source file is carotid artery. And the next box. How do you slit your throat to die? Can you turn airbags off on Kia Sorrento? Well, it's a pretty good inference, right? Yes, sir. Those are just some of the bomb shells revealed in court from Lindsay's notes, apps, entries to alleged search history, but what does all of it mean? Let's bring on today's guest to break it all down. It's trial attorney Christa Rainy, also a friend of the show. Christa, it's so great to see you. Thank you for coming on scandal with us today. Thank you for having me. Let's get out of the windy outdoors of the courthouse in Massachusetts. I know, Christa is referring to when I was on court TV. It was crazy when I was there in real life. The wind was like whipping and going crazy, but I don't know what's more crazy outside or inside the courtroom because there's had been so much that has happened in this case. And you and I were talking off cam, but I just want to talk about it recorded so that our viewers can kind of jump in on this. I did not expect the amount of people having conspiracy theories thoughts about this case. I mean, are you surprised by the way that this case has just kind of set the world on fire? Yes, absolutely. And what really has surprised me is the conspiracy theories. You know, if we're going to eat, did you mention it? Like friends and mine that are intelligent trial lawyers that have gone down the rabbit hole and don't get me wrong. I love the good conspiracy theory. Right. I'm like, tell me all about it. I want to hear, you know. But at the same time, these are really crazy because the evidence really doesn't support the conspiracy theories. And they are just so intense about them, these people that are behind them. They really, really have believed them. They're, they, they bought it. Yeah. I wasn't really expecting that either. I've had a lot of friends reach out to me, people who are watching it. And I'm like, are we watching the same trial? And I guess that kind of leads into my first question because this whole episode is about the evidence that was recently presented in terms of search history or Lindsay's notes app entries. And one of them that people are pointing to is almost a conspiracy theory is this search that was made about how to slit your throat or how to slit or cut the carotid artery. And a lot of people are saying, okay, she worked at mass gen. She was literally a nurse. She was certified. She went to school, you know, in the terms of the medical field. She would know all this stuff. So why would she be searching about the carotid artery, thus leading people to think maybe it was somebody else, maybe her husband making the search. So what are your thoughts about all that? I think you can know a lot about anatomy, but not know how to injure yourself. And the following through to be able to cut a carotid, even just to cut your unrest, the amount of determination that is involved with doing something like that, our mind doesn't allow us to hurt ourselves like that. And so it really, I think, is not surprising to me that she was searching for those types of things. When you look at how, you know, you're trying to find a way to do something to harm yourself and you want to do it in a way that you make sure that it happens and that you're successful. So she's got a plan and she's looking for ways to execute that plan is what it shows me. And I believe that it's evidence of. And so I think that, that, you know, if you're to believe that she had, you know, this psychotic break that was happening over a period of time and with, you know, together with the bipolar disorder and the postpartum depression, that this would make sense, she's looking for the method to, to, to match her suicidal ideations that she's having because she's so out of control and helpless at this point. It's interesting because some people say, oh my gosh, she would have known immediately how to, you know, die by slicing her carotid artery. It's got to be Patrick who was searching it. But to your point, I mean, if she is going through some sort of psychosis, which is the defense's entire argument, if she has this bipolar postpartum depression psychosis, all of it. I mean, maybe she's not in her right mind. She needs to refresh for lack of a better term to research all of that. And I guess this goes into my next question. She did do a lot of research about different medications, different symptoms or diagnoses or ailments in terms of the mental health side of things. What do you think all of that evidence goes to show? I think that that shows that she understood that these medications were playing her role in how she was feeling, that things that were supposed to help her sleep were not helping her sleep, that they were maybe feeding into something else. And so she was searching medications and symptoms, trying to find a connection to what was, what she was experiencing and what she was going through. I think that we all do that. I remember I developed an allergy to a medication and I was just certain, I had these things in my mouth, these ulcers in my mouth and I'm like, why are these there? So I'm googling everything and then I started googling medications and side effects. So you're just trying to figure out what's happening with your own body and figuring out why things are happening. I think that that's perfectly normal. She's not asking for medications when she's going to the doctor. This is not like you're searching for medications in this side effects and then you're going to your physician and asking for those specific medications. So like people with opioid addictions do where they're seeking out medications because they're an addict. You're seeing the opposite, you're seeing her being prescribed medications and then when things happen, she's then looking for, I think realistically, I think she's looking for reasons. I think to your point, Christa, all of us can go back to whatever symptoms we've had or new prescription or illness, injury, whatever. We all have gone and searched on Gemini or ChatGPT or WebMD, whatever it may be. That part does make sense to me too, but another search that was brought up that Lindsay allegedly made not too long before the children were killed was, can you treat a sociopath? I don't know what to make of this one. Is it helpful for her defense or does it hurt? I think that like many of these that can cut both ways. A sociopath is much different than a manic depressive state or a, you know, someone who's suffering from bipolar or someone who's having a psychotic break. A sociopath suggests something more sinister and someone who you know is uncontrollable. A sociopath, I think of Ted Bundy, you know, I think of someone who has urges to kill people and knows that they have these urges. They know exactly they're right, they're wrong, the rightness of the wrongness of what they're thinking and they're thriving on it. That to me is that. So that search term is troubling to me. Yeah, yeah. What about the airbags? A lot of people are talking about this because Lindsay drove a Kiosarento and there was this search something to the effect of how to turn off or disable the airbags in the Kiosarento and the conspiracy theories with this have kind of taken a new life where people say, okay, maybe Patrick wanted it to look like a car crash, to kill Lindsay and the kids, disable the airbags and that kind of take it all and one fell swoop. What are your thoughts about the airbags of it all and people using that conspiracy theory? I mean, I can think of a lot of reasons why I pee again, why people would be searching for that and why this family in particular would be searching for it. Patrick, I cannot think of a good reason for him to be searching for it, but if she is here in the voices and getting the point where she wants to kill herself and her children, I can see her looking for those types of things. She's looking for ways maybe to do things efficiently effectively to make it happen. So it's done. We know that she did kill her children. What is being tried here is her mental state when she did it. Yeah. And so did she have that as we learned in law school and when we watched legally blonde, the men's riot, the mental intent to kill someone. So that's what this trial is about, is about that state right there and so that could support it and it could hurt it. It could show plan and preparation on the one side, but it also could show maybe that she knew that she had to do this because what those voices were telling her and she was trying to do it in the way that would be the most effective. You brought up a lot that I think something gets really lost in all of this. Christa and it's that the defense does not deny that Lindsey Clancy killed the kids. They straight up admit that she did, but they're saying she's not criminally responsible because of this psychosis or mental break. And a lot of people online are saying she didn't kill the kids. Patrick Clancy wasn't investigated thoroughly enough by Massachusetts investigators, whatever it may be. But to your point that's not what the defense is saying at all. They're just saying her mental status at the time. And I think it just again gets going with all the conspiracy theories, like for instance, that singer Tom Hall. So there was, you know, a search to his Wikipedia page and it kind of led to his death he died by suicide and that led to other searches, the rabbit hole, so to speak, of suicide. But then it turns out that it seemingly was Patrick who made that search, not Lindsey. And I don't, this is tricky because online people are thinking it's a conspiracy theory that Patrick was this giant mastermind puppet master here, but it's the jury who's going to decide everything, right? So what does that evidence about Lindsay not searching for Tom Hall? What, what effect do you think that has on the jury? So true story. Last night, my husband and I were debating like our top 10 like songs and albums of all times. And as a part of that, we're listening to songs. We're going on Wikipedia and we're as a wrong Spotify and Wikipedia at the same time when we're clicking through and oh I didn't realize that you know this artist was married to this person and like we're literally going down little rabbit holes last night. And I think that that I think that's probably what he did is that he was listening to a Tom Hall song and searched him up on Wikipedia and then just went down the rabbit hole of finding more about an artist that he enjoys. I don't know that there's much more to that search than that because it's just such a random I think he jumped off a bridge or something and the connection with me you know it being at the same time he was listening to a song on Spotify. I think that that may put it together and there was no other searches about how to make something look like a suicide or you know have frame your wife or you know there wasn't anything else that would connect some kind of sinister motive on his part for that search and then at the same time you know it was him because she had a doctor's appointment for her son at that almost the exact same time the searches were done. Yeah so that I mean I've done that many times where I go on Wikipedia I'm looking at one case I go to the next and the next and an hour goes by and I'm like whoa what did I just research? So we've all definitely done that but I think another search that was made by Lindsay is one that the prosecutors have been talking about I mean I've been following this case since January of 2023 when this first happened right and they've been talking about it since then that Lindsay Clancy made these Apple maps searches how far from our home in duckberry to the CVS and then to the 3v restaurant and home and they say that those searches show premeditation she wanted Patrick out of the house she wanted to know how long it would take for him to be gone so that she could carry out these alleged murders in the time frame. Do you think that's pretty incriminating evidence? I think one side it could be very much so yes and I think that the answer to that on the defense side is that she had a lot of opportunity a lot of periods of time where she was home alone with her children for extended periods of time and knew that she would be home alone with them for extended periods of time so why didn't she and any one of those number of other occasions do it then you know or was this more about you know was a search more just about convenience if he's picking up something from the CVS how close would it be for him to go to XY and Z restaurant to pick up dinner the problem with that is is the proximity to it was it then like the day of it was done before right so I you know I think that that evidence is very helpful for the prosecution but I think that there's an answer to it on the defense side yeah and the members of the prosecution's burden so they've got to get you beyond a reasonable doubt. Great point and the defense has brought up multiple times where Patrick was gone in New York for two days that theoretically she could have killed the kids at that point I mean there's a lot of other instances when he would have been gone longer than the whatever 45 minutes it took for him to make those trips but he didn't imagine planning to kill my three children and myself in 45 minutes. I mean that's a quick turnaround at the very least yeah so I wonder if that does help the defense but another thing that the prosecution brought up we read from her notes app she wrote kind of like a journal type entry in her notes app and one of the things she mentioned was that she kind of resented her older children Kora and Dawson because she couldn't treat Kallen as the firstborn meaning she had to care for the older two kids and she couldn't focus solely on Kallen and one of the things that the prosecutors said in their opening statements was that essentially Lindsay was like I don't want to be a parent anymore I can't handle this I don't want to deal with this so her actually saying I resent my kids is that something that any mom could relate to or is that super incriminating for her? I think every mom can relate to that you know that firstborn gets the baby but can get all of the bells and whistles and by the time you have three or four children the youngest is not you're so busy you know I mean I've had friends that have had you know a two-year-old and then all of a sudden twins and diapers and you have three kids and diapers all at the same time and you're not giving the little one so much attention as you gave the older ones and that's part of the very like foundation of what postpartum depression is it is looking at your life and what you can't provide and resenting the children for that because it's taking something from you it's not rational but it is a mental illness and it's one that's known and documented and so feeling that way about your older children and feeling that you're depriving your younger child because he's not getting that same experience when a rational person who is not suffering through a mental disease or defect understands you know my youngest child is not going to remember any of this when he's 10 much less when he's 30 he won't remember this when he's four you know and so the best memories you're making with your children sometimes with memories that you're making with them when they're seven eight nine ten years old versus when they're newborns but you're not rational yeah and I mean I would argue also that almost makes her a good mom if she's saying I don't want to neglect Callan I want to give him as much attention as I gave Koran Dawson I want to help him with his sleep training and his eating and all of those things it shows that she cares and a lot of the testimony we've heard from is that Lindsay was a great mom I mean her nanny was on the stand Patrick even said she was very detailed she seemed like a good mom and I mean there's a lot going on in this case and I'll just wrap up with this Christa today the defense began their case they just started their case in chief what are you anticipating that the defense is going to bring so I think that they're going to bring evident more evidence of what a great mom she was and how much she you know wanted to do better and be better but you're also going to hear and you know from the doctor that was that they got into the you know the room with her that made the phone allowed her to make the phone call and to Patrick on the day she was hospitalized right and where he heard the words like hostess for the first time we're gonna hear that testimony in their case we're gonna hear from medical doctors that treated her that we haven't heard from and we're gonna hear from expert witnesses they're able to talk about her mental state and whether or not she could could have committed those crimes knowing what she was doing at the time and that you know switches the burden to the prosecution and Massachusetts the prosecution has to disprove almost the defense of self defense by not self defense but criminal responsibility criminal responsibility by reason and sanity so it's the way Massachusetts law law works is a little bit different burden always remains with the state so I think that you're going to hear some pretty powerful evidence and writing has already proven himself to be able to take witnesses that the prosecution thought were in their witnesses and on cross examination made them defense witnesses already we've seen that so I think that we're gonna see more of that he's at very skilled litigator and is doing such a great job for his client yeah you brought up a good point with the criminal responsibility because when I was first researching this case I had to read the statute like three or four times to fully understand it's a huge uphill burden that the Commonwealth has to prove that she was criminally responsible and to your point Kevin Reddington has done a great job so far both sides are bringing all that they have I guess we're just gonna have to see where it takes us Christopher Amy thank you for coming on scandal I know you've been following this case since the beginning so thank you for your insight absolutely thank you always pleasure to be here with you we'll continue to follow this case and bring you the latest updates right here on scandal and for complete coverage of the trial make sure to tune into law and crime where we're streaming this case with gavill to gavill coverage and that is where today's episode of scandal leaves us for now if you like what you saw and you want to see more connect with me on social media you can find me on places like Instagram @SierraGillespie thanks for watching today's episode of scandal as always I'm your host Sierra Gillespie and I'll see you next time