46: Lindsay Clancy: Premeditated Murder of Her 3 Kids or Postpartum Psychosis?

It was back in January 2023, when first responders were called to a devastating scene just south of Boston. He removed the band's infectious debris. He continued to scream uncontrollably. 5-year-old daughter, Korra, 3-year-old son, Dawson, 8-month-old son, Helen. I think I should represent my other children because they prevent me from treating Helen like my first baby. And when encounter Patrick, he yells out, "She killed the kid." Hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Ten To Life with me, Annie Elise. I hope you're doing well today. I have got a major case for you today. One that not only has been highly, highly requested from so many of you, and has been requested for months and months and months, but it's also a case that has people completely divided. Can't seem to agree on it. People battling each other back and forth just a nation that is truly divided. Now, the case that we're reopening today, it's one that genuinely horrified the entire country when it unfolded back in 2023. And it's one that has stayed with a lot of people, including myself. Now, if you've been here for a while, or since I first covered it, or maybe watched that coverage or listened to that coverage, you know, over the last couple of years, but when I first covered this back in 2023, you probably remember that there were moments throughout the episodes where I couldn't even get through it without genuinely holding back tears. It's very emotional, and it's very triggering for a lot of people. And look, I've never been one to keep secrets, or try to pretend my life is something different, and so I'll just tell you right now. The reason that I haven't covered this case again in years is because it's been too difficult for me. I can't seem to bring myself to do it, because it's a case that involves postpartum psychosis at the root of it. And it's no secret I've told you guys before. With my first born, I suffered extreme postpartum depression. And it was one of the scariest moments of my life, because I didn't know what was happening. I didn't know until it got so bad that my mom recognized it, and I ended up seeking treatment, getting on medication, but for anyone who has ever experienced something like that, it's almost indescribable because you're in your mind, and you know that you're battling something that is not reality. But to you, it feels like reality. Even though you're justifying in your mind like this isn't real, and this is how things are happening, I shouldn't be feeling this way, and you're justifying it, and you're trying to be rational, but your mind is working against you. And to where it's, and your mind, your brain is such a strong muscle, right? That it turns against you almost. And so for me, when I first covered this case, it was extremely triggering because it was also only a few years after my personal experience with postpartum depression, and I think I also just felt like, you know, I can relate a little bit, not that I ever had any sort of thoughts of hurting my son. Thank goodness I didn't, but I had some very dark days myself, and again, it got really bad at some points, and so it's been difficult for me to cover it. That's also why I got so highly emotional in my initial coverage. And again, I haven't ever kept that a secret. I think that there is a huge stigma around postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, a stigma that needs to just, you know, be exposed and not be there anymore, which I ended up doing a full episode on my YouTube, all about my experience with a PPD, because I thought, you know, sharing my experience, what I went through, my exact feelings, the disconnect I felt, the unhappiness I felt, maybe that will help another mother who's going through something, or God forbid, goes through it in the future. And so that episode is still out on my channel. I have no shame in it, you know? Aside from that, too, a friend of ours was unfortunately suffering through very, very bad postpartum psychosis. And again, if you've been with me for a while, you probably remember that, because there were points when she sought treatment, inpatient treatment, she ended up leaving AMA, and we, I did a live stream because we were trying to find her, we were trying to locate her, she had left a good buy note, we were scared for her safety, and I, you know, I enlisted the help of all of you, trying to see like, you know, spread the word as fast as possible. And her situation was different than mine. It was more extreme, arguably, yes, but also, she thought that what her child was going through and the child's health struggles were her fault as a mother. And similarly to PPD, in her mind, she just couldn't rationalize it, no matter what the experts were telling her, no matter what her brain was telling her that like, this isn't your fault, this isn't you, like she couldn't seem to understand the reality of the situation. So much so that at one point she wanted to put that daughter up for adoption, even though she had other children, because she thought she was inflicting so much harm on this child. And it's incredibly scary and heartbreaking to witness something like that. And our friend ended up taking her own life over it. Now, while that's different than this case, because Lindsay Clancy took the lives of her children, also did try to take the life of herself and jumped out the window and is paralyzed from the waist down. But the argument here from a lot of people is that this was premeditated. That this wasn't just a whim of postpartum psychosis that overtook her brain and she snapped and she killed her children and then tried to take her own life, but that she was planning and scheming all of this. But my long-winded answer, that's why it's taken me so long to revisit this case, because it is incredibly personal to me. It is very difficult for me. And I'm going to do my best to not get emotional today. Look, I'm already starting to get emotional just thinking about it. But it is a very important case that I think so many people need to hear. Regardless, which camp you're in. Regardless, if you think that Lindsay herself was a victim in all of this, or if you think that she was a manipulative, calculated murderer. It doesn't matter which side you're on. It matters that you hear the story and what her experience was and what happened in this case to help further educate so many people who are unfamiliar with the dangers of PPD and PPP. And look, I'm not saying that this gives her a pass for anything. Absolutely not. There needs to be accountability. And we also know from what Andrea Yates back in the day that people are revisiting that with new eyes. And that it's just more complex than I think anybody really ever knew because nobody was willing to talk about it. Again, there's this huge stigma around it. So what's interesting too in this case is that as more information has come out over the last few years, people have become more and more certain as to where they stand in this case. I mean, if anything, they've become more divided. Thinking premeditation, calculated cold-hearted murderer, verse no, she was going through something, a mental health crisis, post-partum psychosis. She knew something was wrong. She tried to get treatment. She tried to get help. She was overmedicated. She is a victim too in all of this. There are two very different sides. And so what I want to do today is I want to walk you through everything. The whole case, the whole information, the timeline of how it all happened, how she got her husband out of the house, and what's been going on since because the trial is happening right now. And I want to lay it all out for you. And then I want you to share with me what you believe. Do you believe that this was cold-hearted, premeditated murder? Or do you think that there was something more here and that she's a victim too? So with that, today we are reopening the case of Lindsay Clancy. I'm Annie Elise, and let's get right into it. Lindsay and Patrick Clancy got married in 2016 in Connecticut. And then they purchased their home at 47 Summer Street in Ducksbury, Massachusetts in 2018. Over the course of their marriage, they had three children, a daughter Korra, who was five, Dawson, who was three, and another little boy, Callan, who was just eight months old. Back in 2023, when this case first was in the headlines, Lindsay was your average 32-year-old wife and mother. She was working as a labor and delivery nurse at Massachusetts General Hospital. And when I say that she was like your normal average mother, it's not a dig or anything like that. It's really just to show you that Lindsay and Patrick were normal every day people, same as you and I. Lindsay always loved and wanted children, so it was no surprise when she had children of her own. Friends of Lindsay have said that Lindsay's whole life centered around her family. She always strived to be the best mom, the best wife, and loved her children with everything that she had in her. Close friends and colleagues of Lindsay only had positive things to say about her, whether that meant in her personal life, her professional life, or her life as a mother and wife. One of Lindsay's colleagues described her as, quote, "The nurse that you would want caring for your wife, sister, or daughter, as they welcome their child into the world." Because remember, she was a labor and delivery nurse, bringing babies into the world, caring for the new mothers, caring for these little tiny babies. That was her life's work, her purpose." She was such this devoted, loving woman. Another colleague spoke about Lindsay after she first became a mom when her oldest Korra was born. And she said, quote, "When Korra was born, her mommy nursing skills took over. She would check Korra's vitals at home just to make sure that she was okay. She had such a special bond with all of her children and she was so proud to be a mom." Even after the other kids were born, Lindsay's attentiveness, it never wavered. Another of her friends at work said that while Lindsay would be so focused on work, she would also always be checking in on the kids at home. Saying, quote, "She spied on them in the middle of the night via baby monitors. And she shared with us, her coworkers, the images of her sleeping children. She watched them sleep all while she took breaks to pump breast milk in the middle of the night." Now all of those things about Lindsay, all of those characteristics about her being a doting mother, a loving mother, a proud mother and just a caring woman and nurse in general, it made it even more difficult to grapple with the reality of what would eventually come to happen to Lindsay's own children. The clansies were living a dream life by most standards, and Lindsay and Patrick were so proud of everything that they had built together, especially their three precious children. It was a normal Tuesday on January 24th, 2023, when the unexpected happened. Around 6 p.m., officers from the Plymouth Police Department were called to the clansies home and they were met with a truly horrific scene. Upon their arrival, the officers discovered the three children upstairs and that they were unconscious with obvious signs of trauma. Each of the kids had been found strangled with exercise bands, and those bands were still around their necks when they were found. The three children were rushed to a local hospital. More five-year-old Korra and three-year-old Dawson were pronounced dead. Sorry. The third child, Kallen, who managed to survive at just eight months old, was flown to Boston Children's Hospital where he was in critical condition by getting treatment. Witnesses said that the baby had been given CPR at the scene. Lindsay was also found at the scene on the ground outside of the house, after jumping out of a window on the second floor of her house. It was believed that she jumped in an attempt to end her own life after killing her children when nobody was home. Soon after, it was announced that Lindsay was charged for murdering her two children and for severely injuring her baby son, Kallen. The charges specifically were two counts of homicide, three counts of strangulation, three counts of assault and battery with a deadly weapon. Now, when I first covered this case, we weren't sure exactly what the deadly weapon was, but like I mentioned a second ago, the kids were all found with those exercise bands around their necks, so that's where the deadly weapons charges come in. In another devastating blow, baby Kallen didn't make it and passed away after just a few days of hospitalization. Lindsay was initially only charged with Korra and Dawson's death, but after Kallen passed, her charges were then upgraded, which left her facing three counts of first degree murder for all three of her children who died. While Lindsay was in the hospital, nobody knew details of her condition other than the fact that she was critically injured and recovering. As this case continued to garner an unbelievable amount of national media attention, the public struggled with how to make sense of what happened. Lindsay was a loving mother, a wife, a labor and delivery nurse. She and Patrick were living what many people would consider a perfect dream life in and a fluent suburb with three precious babies. Many people wondered how a mother could do this in general, but the fact that Lindsay was a labor and delivery nurse added an entire separate layer of confusion. She literally helped bring children into the world, and her social media was filled with pictures of her and Patrick with the kids, kissing them, holding them, playing with them. She had a loving husband and a strong marriage, so how on earth did this happen? It didn't make any sense. People who knew Lindsay spoke out and said that she was struggling with postpartum depression, and also that she was on leave from her job in Massachusetts General Hospital. It was revealed that Lindsay was in an inpatient treatment program for mental health struggles for five days just a few weeks before this tragic night. After Lindsay took leave from work, Patrick also began to work from home instead of going into the office because he wanted to support Lindsay and be there for her and the kids. From the few friends that have spoken out on Lindsay's behalf, they all generally said the same thing. This isn't Lindsay. Lindsay loves her children. Lindsay would never do this. Lindsay loved being a mom. Neighbors, friends, anyone who knew Lindsay were absolutely stunned after hearing the news. Lindsay was doing what she could to take care of her mental health. Patrick knew about it. She was going to an outpatient program five days a week for her mental health issues, and it seemed like Lindsay and Patrick were doing everything right, essentially, to address Lindsay's mental health issues. So again, how on Earth did this happen? Initially, it was widely believed that Lindsay may have experienced postpartum psychosis, which is a very serious mental illness that can affect women after giving birth. The symptoms can appear suddenly and feel like you lose your sense of reality, including hallucinations, delusions, mood swings, mood disorders, and many other behavioral changes. Facebook groups and other forms on social media had hundreds of women sharing their own experiences with postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis, and a lot of people felt like once Lindsay woke up in the hospital, the reality of her actions would be so unbelievably unbearable that maybe criminal charges weren't the answer after all. It's no secret that for a very long time a mental illness in the US and really the world either wasn't known to many people or was just not spoken about because of societal norms and a widely held belief that talking about mental health struggles was bad or it was something to be ashamed of. But now the conversation has completely shifted, especially over the past several years. Sure, there are some people who will always feel the way they do about mental illness, either being in excuse for someone's actions or a way to justify personal failures, but on the other hand, the numbers don't lie. Statistics across the population paint a completely different picture and illustrate that not only is mental illness more common than you would think, but it actually occurs in one out of five adults. That is 20% of the country, and I also want to point out that that statistic is only based on reported experiences of mental illness, so the true number could be much higher. And in light of that, some criminal courts have recognized this culture change of opinion, and more juries have believed people about mental health struggles because they've either experienced it firsthand or know somebody closely to them who has. Because of the way we've been moving in how we discuss mental illness in a non-judgmental and relatable way, many people across the country, including doctors, psychologists, and mental health experts, looked at Lindsey Clancy's situation in a completely different light than say they would have 20 years ago. Four days before Lindsey was scheduled for her arraignment hearing via Zoom, her defense attorney started to describe Lindsey's mental state, describing it as "zombie-like" and also the result of absolutely over-medication, possibly with a component of post-partum depression. He said that from October of 2022 to January of 2023, Lindsey was prescribed as many as 12 different medications. All of these medications were for post-partum anxiety, and he was arguing that she cannot be held criminally responsible because of this. Some of the medications that she was on, which is a plethora of meds to be on, included Ambian, Valium, Colonopin, Prozac, Lamectal, Adivan, Remirian, Cerequil, Zoloft, and Trazodone. He said, and I quote, "This family was on the road to hell and unfortunately is not coming back." Her husband actually went to the doctor the week before this happened to ask for help and said, "You're turning her into a zombie. It was just a brutal, brutal existence that they were living in. Her parents were also aware of this. They were trying to help out the husband as well. Her husband was never told that he shouldn't leave her alone. I like to think in this case it's justice for Lindsey as well. I don't think anyone needs to be lectured about the horrific loss of three beautiful babies." Her defense attorney also filed a motion that the judge granted and scheduled Lindsey to speak with a forensic psychologist to evaluate her before the arrangement. Again, this is something where everybody was just really divided, because there were of course people saying, "No, this woman just brutally killed her three children, then tried to take her own life, not seeing that as taking her own life because she couldn't bear what was going on, but almost she took her own life because she's a coward and she doesn't want to face the music for this. We're going to get into some more of the details of the planning of these murders as well, which is why so many people still believe this. But then you have the whole other side of the case and the argument saying, "No, she was clearly under duress. She was clearly mentally ill. She had been struggling. She told people she was struggling. She was entreatment for it. She was then prescribed over a dozen medications. Of course, that would warp anybody's sense of reality, behavior, and reactions to thinking. There's no way that she can be held accountable for this." So everybody was very, very divided on this right out of the gate. One of the first things that was very troubling for people to hear is that the prosecution said she was never diagnosed with postpartum psychosis. Now, I just want to say that to me is not necessarily indicative of the fact that maybe she was or was not struggling with postpartum psychosis. Just because she wasn't diagnosed with it, I don't believe means that she was not suffering from it. And not only for the reason that many people are suffering from illnesses all the time without having an official formal diagnosis, but especially when you are going through something like postpartum depression or psychosis. And I'm speaking firsthand. I'm speaking about my personal experience here because I have knowledge on this. I suffered from this. When you are in it, you don't know that you are in it. You recognize that something is wrong. You know that you're not feeling right. Just like Lindsay did. She was reaching out to her doctors, to Facebook groups, to mom groups saying these medications aren't working. I'm feeling this way. Somebody helped me. You know something's wrong, but you don't know what it is. And it's hard to explain, but it's almost like like you don't know how to not diagnose yourself, but it's almost like you're in denial that you're suffering from this. And that's unfortunately because there is such a stigma attached to it as well, that you almost don't want to acknowledge that you might be suffering from it. And I remember with my own personal experience, and I'll move on in just a second here, but with my own personal experience, I remember I suffered for weeks and weeks and weeks with postpartum depression, and I didn't know what it was. And literally the moment I had a break and called my doctor, I was diagnosed within seconds over the phone. He didn't even need to see me. He knew just based on what I was telling him and what I was saying. He's like, no, I'm calling you in a prescription right now. But what I'm saying is that when you're in it, you sometimes people don't know that they're in it, and it doesn't mean that you have to have a formal diagnosis just to mean you're suffering from it. So when the prosecution said that she was never diagnosed with it, a lot of people came out saying, well, before the arrangement, it was said that she was struggling from postpartum psychosis, come to find out, she was never even diagnosed with it. I don't think that necessarily is black and white. But every, again, it's subjective. So on Tuesday, February 7th, Lindsay was arraigned, and at this hearing, the absolute chilling and horrific details were revealed of what exactly happened that day. (dramatic music) You guys know that I am a huge believer in taking care of your mental health, and I truly believe it's just as important as taking care of your physical health. But finding a therapist, it can feel overwhelming. 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For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free, full-size mascara on their first purchase, when they use code 10 to life at checkout. Just head to jonesroadbeauty.com and use code 10 to life at checkout. After your purchase, the last key where you heard about them, and please support our show and let them know we sent you. [MUSIC PLAYING] Lindsay appeared at this hearing via Zoom, and she was still in a hospital bed with a mask on. And you really couldn't tell her emotions in this Zoom because she had the mask on, but she did seem to be heavily medicated. There wasn't a lot of expression. She kind of seems a little zombie-like. And at this point, too, it hadn't been confirmed. But we later learned that she was paralyzed from the waist down, this as a result from jumping from the second story of her home trying to end her own life. And here's what the prosecution had to say. Dawson and Callan were faced down on the floor. Korr was on her side with her torso turned towards the floor. He removed the bands and begged them to breathe. He continued to scream uncontrollably and scream for officers to come to the basement. The dispatchers are hearing this, and they sent help down to the basement. And when they encountered Patrick, he yells out. She killed the kid. On Friday, January 27, 2023, using an eraseful whiteboard because she was still temporarily intubated, one of the first questions that Lindsay Clancy asked was, do I need an attorney? She knew that she had murdered her children, and she had the clarity, focus, and mental acumen to focus on protecting her own rights and interests. On the morning of Tuesday, January 24, 2023, the defendant took her five-year-old daughter, Korr, to the pediatricians for an appointment. She interacted with a receptionist, nursing staff, and a doctor. There were apparently no issues with the defendant's demeanor or behavior as she completed the appointment and was allowed to leave with Korr without any issues or concern. When she returned home, she went outside with Korr and a three-year-old son, Dawson, to play in the snow. They built a snowman, the defendant sent photos to her mother and to the defendant, strikes that to her husband. She texted with them. Nothing in the text was out of the ordinary or any sign of any distress or trouble. Then search that, take out 3-V, be her cell phone at 4.13 pm. Immediately after doing that, she used Apple Maps on her phone to determine how long it would take someone to drive from her home in Ducksbury to 3-V restaurant in Plymouth. So she would know how long someone would be gone if they were in that errand. 4.53 pm, the defendant texted her husband who was working in his home office in their basement. She texted any chance he wanted to take out from 3-V. I didn't cook anything. It's been a long day. This was an unusual request as when the family ordered takeout they'd usually go somewhere close to their home. But it was a place that they had been in the past. Now this detail of Lindsay figuring out how long it would take for her husband, Patrick, to get the takeout. It has been one of the biggest things that I see people talking about when it comes to her potential premeditated guilt. And I'll admit, it's something that I struggle with as well. Now I wanted to note something that I was able to find in my research for this updated episode that I'm giving you guys today. In 2024, Patrick did an interview with The New Yorker. And he detailed a conversation that he and Lindsay had in the weeks after the kids' deaths. Patrick said that these conversations were full of questions, mainly for her to fill in the gaps for him. Probably also for a little bit of closure or as much closure as you can get in a situation like that, maybe just answers that will hopefully bring you a little bit of peace. But one of those questions was about her looking up how long it would take for him to get to the restaurant. He claimed that he asked her if it was true that she Googled how long it would take him. And she said yes, that it was true. So when he asked her, okay, well why would you Google something like that? Her answer was one that under any other circumstances probably would have been pretty normal. Because apparently Lindsay said that she only looked it up because she was concerned about him getting stuck in a rush hour traffic, which like I said, in any other circumstances, then the one that they were in, that would have been totally normal. Looking up how long it's gonna take to get to and from a restaurant, I mean personally for me, I know that when I'm really hungry and I don't feel like cooking or I'm ordering door dash or postmates or whatever, I will decide on what food we get, whether it's delivery or pickup based on the wait time and the traffic to and from the restaurant. And if it's too long, I just will go with a restaurant that's closer, something that's easier, even if it's not what I initially wanted. But again, in Lindsay's case, this definitely is not a normal scenario. And even if that were the truth as to why she was looking up the traffic, that is one hell of a coincidence because of what ended up transpiring. And so again, I just wanted to mention that because I did find that in an interview and I thought that it was interesting, but anyway, let's get back into it. - Patrick Clancy texted back, yes. And then the defendant asked him to check the menu. As I said, TMPM, Patrick Clancy headed out the door to run these errands at the defendant's request. As he left, he texted in PDLX with the school softener. Surveillance footage shows Mr. Clancy at CVS on Summer Street in Kingston at 5.32 pm. He goes to the medication aisle, the children's medication aisle. One record show that he called the defendant at 5.33 pm and she did not answer the phone. He then calls him back at 5.34 pm and the call lasted 14 seconds. He's there at the store, unsure of which medication to get. And she tells him exactly what she wants. He had no issues communicating with her. It was a completely normal call, although he did mention that she seemed like she was in the middle of something. When he arrived home, the first thing he noticed was the silence. He did not see or hear the defendant or the children. He actually called herself on at 6.09 pm looking for them and she did not answer. He went to their bedroom on the second floor and the door was locked. He was able to open it and when he looked inside, he saw blood on the floor in front of a full length mirror in the window open. He immediately runs downstairs and into the backyard where he finds the defendant laying on the ground. He appeared to have cuts on a wrist and neck but he stated to 911 that those wounds were no longer bleeding. He was conscious. He called 911. During this time, he asked the defendant, "What did you do?" She responded to him. I tried to kill myself and jump out the window. During the 911 call, the pastor can be heard asking the defendant, "Where are the kids?" He later told police that she replied in the basement. for meeting. After this happened she knew what she had done and she knew where the kids were. When EMS arrived he asked them to stay with her so he could go find his kids. The 911 call kept going. Patrick can be heard on the 911 call entering the home and heading to the basement. At one point he calls out guys. He can then be heard screaming and agony and shock as he found his children. His screams seemed to get louder and more agonized as the time passes. Korra and Kellyn were on the floor in the den area of the finished basement which is to the last when you walk down the stairs. While Dawson was alone on the floor in his father's home office which is to the right when you go down the stairs. Each child still had the exercise band that was used to strangle them tied around their necks when their father found them. Dawson and Kellyn were faced down on the floor. Korra was on her side with her torso turned towards the floor. The dispatchers are hearing this and they send help down to the basement. And when they encounter Patrick he yells out she killed the kid. According to her husband she was never on more than four to five medications at one time. And at the time of the murder she was taking only three medications. And he said to the police that she always took the medications as prescribed. After her stay at McLean the defendant appeared to be getting better. According to her husband she slept well interacting with friends and family. She went out with her kids and husband to places like the Kingsbury Club in Ducksbury, the Charlie Horse restaurant, the Museum of Science in Boston, the Cape Cauter down the Cape, interacting with her family and the public without any apparent difficulties. She even stayed alone with the children on several occasions without any issues in January of 2023. Her husband asked her in mid-January, "Are you still having suicidal thoughts?" And she said no. On the night of the killings Patrick Clancy was interviewed by the police at Beth Israel Deaconess Clinic Hospital, he told the police that the defendant was having one of her best days. She was smiling and happy and there was no indication that she was going to harm the kid. No one at all described her as acting like a zombie and the day is leading up to the murder or on the day of the murders themselves. On February 5th, 2023 this past Sunday at 1.35 pm while sitting with Dr. Paul Zyzel, the psychologist hired by distance conflict to evaluate her mental state, the defendant used Dr. Zyzel's cell phone to call her husband. She left a voicemail stating that she loved him. Yesterday on February 6th, 2023 at 10.09 am she again used Dr. This time he answered and during this call the defendant stated that after he left the house that night she killed the kids because she heard a voice and had "a moment of psychosis" and "he asked her what voice to she heard and she said she heard of man's voice telling her to kill the kids and kill herself because it was her last chance. Hector Clancy told the police the defendant had never heard voices before. He also told the police the defendant had never used the word psychosis to him before. The first time he used that word psychosis was when she was with the doctor, hired by defense counsel and using his cell phone. Now let's hear what the defense had to say about all of this. We have a paraplegic who can't walk, who is definitely a danger to herself. And the government wants to put her in where framing him, stay prison, from the house of correction. There's no way that any humane person would do that, especially within the structure of our criminal justice system, where a person is presumed innocent and I'm not suggesting that the facts that the government has read, but she has a good defense. It's going to be a good defense for this case, because that's what happened. To have this woman not held on bail, perhaps put a GPS on her, I guess, if someone's concerned that she's going to miraculously recover, which isn't going to happen. As you run a nose, being a paraplegic, paralyzed, she can't move. Can't get off the bed. She can't walk. She can't even go to the bathroom. She has to have 24/7 medical care. We all know. That this woman is, as Council can see, apparently, a danger to herself. I question whether she would ever make it to a trial. She's vital. She's extremely emotional. However, she's unable and has been unable to express any happiness or sadness or cry. And in fact, sometimes about a month or two ago, she made the climate. I just wish that I could feel something. Now, as society fails miserably in treating women with post-partum depression or even post-partum psychosis. It's Medicaid, Medicaid, Medicaid. Throw the pills at you and then see how it works, but it doesn't work to increase the dose or decrease the dose. Then I end up trying another combination of medications. Now, I want to note here that in the arrangement, the defense shifted from just medication-induced psychosis to post-partum psychosis. So it was now time for the forensic psychiatrist to try to determine whether a crime was premeditated or if this was something else, and they needed to look at the whole picture instead of just one incident. And in this case, in order to see and have visibility to the whole picture, that would include Lindsay's past history with her children. Everything was on the table and nothing was off limits. According to almost everyone that knew Lindsay personally or even on the surface, she was by all accounts just a great mother that loved her children deeply, and also she absolutely loved being a mom. Even her husband, Patrick, spoke out after these murders asking the public to forgive Lindsay, since he says that he already had forgiven her. He wrote an absolutely heart-wrenching post on the GoFundMe, detailing their family traditions, talking about Kora, Dawson, and Kallen, and spoke out in depth about his marriage to Lindsay. In that, he said, "Nothing matched her intense love for our kids and dedication to being a mother. It was all she ever wanted. Her passion taught me how to be a better father." Now this is just heartbreaking, because Patrick is of course grappling with the loss of his three children. And then on top of that, the added extra layer that your wife is the one responsible for this. And in that moment, you can imagine, feeling torn as far as, "Should I support her?" He obviously knows the mental health situation much more than the public. So do I support her? Is she a monster? All of the things? And he put that statement out pretty quickly, which again, kind of sparked even more confusion out there with the public, because they now are seeing the parent, the father, and the husband standing by her, being like, "Maybe things really were different. Maybe this was bad." But any of that empathy took a pretty big turn when more details became public. There was a clear divide out there. People who were standing with Lindsay, who were advocating for her, who were trying to be empathetic, and then the people on the other side, saying, "No, she is a monster. She's a murderer. She needs to be held accountable." And that's really all many people had to go on for months. We finally learned the details of those horrific murders, some of the extremely haunting methods of the murder, and that's really all we knew at that point. We had a little bit of information to go off of, but things were under lock and key for the most part, until so much more of that came to light. On October 26, things took a serious turn for Lindsay, as she was now standing before a judge at the Tukesbury State Hospital, where she had been getting treatment since the spring. She pleaded not guilty to the charges against her. However, the judge decided to hold her without bail and commit her to psychiatric care, because they believed that she was a risk of hurting herself. The judge's decision came after Dr. Karen Towers, a forensic psychiatrist, reported that Lindsay was going through severe depression and having a very hard time coping with life. Dr. Towers expressed her professional opinion that Lindsay needed ongoing psychiatric care. During these court proceedings, prosecutor Jennifer Sproug provided more details about the events that occurred on January 24, when all three of those little children were brutally murdered. According to investigative affidavits, Lindsay had cut her wrists and her neck before jumping from the second floor window. Prosecutor Jennifer also mentioned that these injuries were not too deep and didn't even need stitches, raising questions about how serious Lindsay's suicide attempt really was. She also noted that Lindsay seemed to be fully aware of her actions, as there were no signs of hallucinations or delusions in her notes where she wrote about her life and her children. You want to go right first with the exercise room in the office floor because you hear him screaming and you hear him say "gossin" in my body and takes the exercise band from around Dawson's neck. And then he goes to the other side of the basement where there's a band and you hear him find Laura and he screams "baby" and he's screaming. Then you can hear when he finds talent, because the team then is going to be far. We're going to see people come downstairs, I'll pull these through and try to find it. yells she killed her kids. Dr. Dow, EAU, a psychiatrist, retained by the commonwealth review, the defense medical records, prescription history, her journals, and didn't find anything out of the ordinary in the manner of treatment or in the medications that were prescribed to her by her providers. She testified at Rangerie that the trial of different medications and different combinations of dosages is routine medical practice when initially treating a patient and trying to find out what works to them. The defendant wrote a note on her phone on October 25, 2022, stating, "I think I sort of resent my other children because they prevent me from treating Caled like my first baby." She also wrote, "I want to feel love and connection with all of my kids." This would indicate that she did not feel love or connection with at least some of her kids. She then wrote, "She wants to have more kids eventually." Four days prior to killing her children, the defendant did an internet search on her phone, and it was, quote, "can you treat a sociopath?" The children were killed with the liquid gestrangulation. Liquid gestrangulation causes the victim to be come unconscious anywhere from 10 seconds to a minute, and that depends on how much the victim struggles her find. The more they struggle her fight, the longer it takes. Dawson had the most protective eye on and speak the neck. According to the medical examiner, this means Dawson either struggled there, fought for his life more than four calendar able to, or that she strangled and harder than the other two, or both, and it takes 10 pounds of pressure at minimum. She put a stop at any time, she couldn't find in any time, she could not. Instead, she finished strangling her children, returned her husband's phone call, then went up to the bathroom on the second floor. There she used the knife to inflict superficial cuts to the practice to her wrist and neck. She took the remaining pills of the remurranded cervical, and then she climbed out of the bedroom window and ripped the window sill while the end went on it. She noticed because there's blood on the outside of the window sill, where her wrist would be, in her hand. She then dropped from the window, or slipped down. She did not jump. She did not curl herself out because there was blood on the exterior shingle going down, yeah, the exterior of the house. Then on the window, directly below the window she came out of, there's more blood on the top level, hoping like you tried to grab on to that window sill. While being treated, I bring them on this hospital and Boston after killing her children, the defendant spoke to mental staff. On February 6, she said that she had fears that her inability to walk would make her vulnerable to others, and that she was worried about nothing else to walk again. On February 7, she said she was failing more hopeful about her future. On February 8, she stated that she was more fuchsia-oriented and hopeful. On February 9, she was visibly engaged, energized, and hopeful. Lindsay's defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, had a different perspective on this though. This clienty is an earth, obviously, a white mother, according to anybody that you speak to, right? This incident, it was nothing less than a marvelous, incredible mother hospital. I've been in that house. There were photographs that showed the local devotion that both Lindsay and her husband Patrick had these kids. Every single world was covered with her artwork, embroidery, pictures, statements to the kids, tracks and graphs of, you know, how they're doing, or what they're doing as far as learning, alphabet, numbers, things of that nature. She then, after having the third child, obviously, did I understand that the government wants to portray a lack of criminal responsibility as somebody who is crazy, as we would envision somebody being crazy, unable to speak, unable to take care of themselves with hygiene, acting in a very, very irrational fashion. That's not what happens when you get the situation. As a here, you have a woman who is obviously suffering from post-partum depression. And how do we know that? Well, we know that because in the weeks and months prior, she was in such a state. She was unable to promote. She was unable to feel. She had no ability to walk, whether it was her husband or her kids, and she told Patrick her husband that. After some while, a little bit of practice, and told the doctors that she was acting at the time. He argued against Jennifer's points, mentioning that he could see the blood from Lindsay's wounds on the floor, the walls, and even the window pane, which suggested a more serious situation than what Jennifer had described as, and I quote, a "dinky cut." I've talked before about just how important financial independence is to me. I just think that everyone should have a bank that does more for you than just told your money. It should actually help your money work harder for you. And that's why I am so beyond excited to tell you about today's sponsor, SoFi. SoFi Plus is a premium membership that is designed to help you get more from your finances, unlocking a thousand dollars or more in annual value with qualifying activities. That includes things like a highly competitive APY on your savings, investment matches, and even unlimited one-on-one sessions with experienced SoFi wealth financial planners. It's honestly such a smart way to just get more for your money. And getting started is just $10 a month. So if you've been looking for a better way to manage your finances and make your money work a little bit harder for you, head to SoFi.com/10ToLifeToLearnMore. So in the midst of all of this, investigators obtained warrant to search Lindsay's electronic devices. This included a tablet and a blue case that was found in the kitchen, an HP Pavilion laptop recovered from a basement office, a silver Dell laptop located in a first floor closet, and a pink Apple iPhone that was found in a second floor dresser of one of the bedrooms. They also discovered quite a few journals where Lindsay would journal about her mental health and feelings about her children, but also researching ways to kill. So these devices contained Lindsay's digital footprints and her thoughts on mental health all the way to those disturbing searches related to self-harm. So the goal of all of these search warrants was to find any evidence that this was in fact premeditated. So all of this information with the journals, the search history, her husband noticing the self-harm ideations. This all coupled with the fact that Lindsay had voluntarily admitted herself to McLean Hospital from New Year's Day to January 5th, indicated a level of self-awareness for Patrick regarding her struggles, regarding the mental health struggles that she was facing. But Lindsay's struggles took a more mysterious turn when it was revealed that she had confided in a close friend about her thoughts of harming both her children and herself. Now interestingly, just two days before the tragic events unfolded, this friend had hosted the Clancy family over at the house for dinner. During that gathering, though, Lindsay's behavior apparently hadn't raised any alarms, and everything appeared completely normal. Police searched the home extensively, finding crucial pieces of evidence including the murder weapons, knives, and several of those notebooks. And these notebooks contained a comprehensive list of those medications that Lindsay had been prescribed, which was further supporting the defense's argument that she had been overly medicated. It became evident that Lindsay had been dealing with a very complex cocktail of psychiatric drugs. And those notebooks didn't just document her medication regimen. They also contained her innermost thoughts, her struggles, and her confidence in friends, one of whom was cryptically referred to as Sue. What's interesting about these journals are that even all these years later, we don't really know very much about them. The friends she does name in the journal, she only refers to by their first name. And as for the actual journal entries, there haven't been any made public. And I don't know this for sure, but I would be willing to bet that we will be seeing some of these journal entries during the trial. Whether that's from the defense, showing that she really was struggling mentally, that she was struggling for quite some time and trying to get help and seek treatment, or possibly even showing from the prosecution, showing that she documented having negative feelings towards her children and negative feelings toward motherhood. Maybe we'll see them from both sides. I don't know, but I would imagine they probably will come into play at some point. Many psychiatrists and psychologists say that one reason someone could be struggling this badly with a postpartum mood disorder, or really even mental illness in general, and that they never mention anything to anyone about it, is because of the fear that their children will be taken away from them. However, this wasn't the case with Lindsay, which is what makes this so troubling. She told Patrick. She was also on leave from work. She sought out treatment programs. She was on prescribed medication. She was doing all of the things that she thought were necessary. So why didn't medication work on Lindsay? What are women supposed to do that seek medical treatment, but the medications aren't working? What then? Why wasn't Lindsay diagnosed with postpartum psychosis prior to this? I don't have the answers, and there are still so many questions, but it's important to ask these questions to further the conversation and to distinguish mental health issues that women face after childhood. birth. And something I also just want to mention guys, if she had these plans to annihilate her entire family or her children, not her entire family, but her children, starting back in October when she was journaling, why would she go through the steps of trying to get medication? Why would she go through the steps of trying to get an inpatient treatment? Do the five day a week outpatient treatment. Tell her husband she needed him to work from home, take leave from work. If she wasn't trying to better herself and better her mental stage and her emotions, then why would she do all of those things? If she was just a cold calculated murder or her no longer wanted to be a mom and just wanted to check out, what would she take all of those steps? It doesn't really add up to me. And I could be wrong, there could be something I'm missing entirely, so let me know in the comments. But that doesn't add up to me. I would think based on cases we've seen, studies that have been out there, if somebody it wants to just check out as a parent and not have the responsibility of children anymore, it just wants to be rid of all of that. Not necessarily Chris Watts, I know that's an easy default to go to, but I believe his motivation was more lust and driven by his, you know, mistress. But if somebody just doesn't want to be a parent anymore, I don't believe that they're going to try to seek out treatment to get better. I don't see how that ties together. So the last time that I covered this case was almost three years ago now. And at that time, I truly think that a lot of people were still really torn on how they felt, even after the prosecution was dropping, you know, all of these bombshells left and right, and they were accusing Lindsay of remeditating her children's murders. To be honest, I also totally understand why people are still torn even to this day. Both of the defense and the prosecution have laid out pretty convincing arguments along the way. One minute, you're feeling like Lindsay had no control over her own mind, but then the next minute, you're feeling like she was calculated, and that she ultimately carried out her idea of a perfect murder or three. And that brings us to today in 2026. And her case is back in the headlines in a major way because the case is going to trial. And as with all trials, especially major ones like this one, there have been constant new updates ahead of trial. So I wanted to take a moment to give you the updates, give you some of the major ones, and also give you an idea of what we can expect during this upcoming trial. The first really big thing to note is that the judge wants 18 jurors in total on the panel. Well, regular and six alternate. Now, this is an extremely high amount. Online, a lot of people are commenting that this trial will have even more jurors than the Karen Reed trial, which is a case that we probably all know, you know, far too well at this point. And I covered it pretty extensively years ago. But even Lindsay's defense attorney said that he had never worked on a case with this many jurors, stating, quote, "With all the cases I've had, I've never had 18 jurors. It's always been 16, but Judge Sullivan obviously recognizes the unusual nature of this case." So jury selection had initially started last week, which everybody was anticipating would take quite a bit of time because seating this many jurors and vetting all of them, I mean, it's going to take a little bit of time. But interestingly too, back in November of 2025, Lindsay's defense team had tried to get her trial moved from Plymouth to Boston. That request though was denied. However, given the close proximity, I would imagine that they're probably going to go through a pretty good chunk of people who already know about this case, right? Even if it's just knowledge of the case in general, they've seen it on the news. They've seen it on their social media feeds. Maybe they haven't done the deep dive and they don't know all the details, but it's a pretty polarizing case. I would imagine, especially locally within the area, they would be hard pressed to find someone who has never heard about it. Now more recently, meaning at the time that I'm recording this episode, the judge also ruled that witnesses will not be able to testify about their own experience with postpartum psychosis or postpartum depression. And I think that this was a really big hit to the defense. However, Lindsay's attorney explained why this was so important to them. They said, quote, "For us to believe that somebody is hearing voices, the natural reaction from any of us, I think, in this courtroom would be, come on. You're not hearing voices. What are you talking about? You're making this up. You're trying to avoid responsibility, but it's true. And it happens. A woman who has suffered and has put up with this affliction should be able to testify and say, probably in an emotionally charged fashion, but very credibly, I too have heard these command voices. I too acted on the command voices. However, the judge's explanation for this ruling was, it doesn't seem like there's a question of whether postpartum depression or psychosis is real. And I take a little bit of an issue with that. I see both sides of it. I don't think people ever question if postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis is real. I think for the most part, if you have a brain, you understand that this is a real thing. However, personally, I don't think that people understand just how severe it is and how overwhelming it can become and how truly out of control your own mind is. Your brain is working against you. It's like you're fighting within yourself. And that because of the stigma that has gone on for years, that is the reason I don't believe people understand just how truly detrimental it is and how debilitating it is and the severity of it. I don't think it's the people are doubting that it exists. Absolutely. I think people understand that, but I don't think people are either, I don't want to say willing to accept how serious it is, but maybe just uneducated and don't understand. And so while I understand you can't parade up all these different witnesses, sharing all of their personal experiences just to pull on the heartstrings of the jurors, so that the case swings in your favor, I get that. But at the same time, I do think to some extent, it is important to illustrate that this is a very real thing that people have gone through for, I don't even know how many, for decades or centuries, it goes back, but also to share their personal experience because think about it. If you see a defendant who just committed a triple murder, and they're saying, I hear voices, the voice is told me to do obviously, you're going to be like, this person is full of shit. Hello, look at Aiden Fouche, when he was like on that infamous jail call, and it was recording, he was like looking around the room pretending he was hearing voices, and you're like, okay, it's performative, you're full of shit, you're just trying to like throw a Hail Mary right now to avoid responsibility, but that would happen, I think, for any defendant. But in a case like this, I think you do, at some point, need an expert to come in, or a witness, or someone to illustrate that this is very real. And look, take my friend Cara, for example. She obviously can't testify, and she can't be a witness because she's no longer here, but she took her own life over it. That's how real it was. And I know there's a very fine line when it comes to familiar side, and mental health, and all the things, because it's like once you make an argument for one situation, you make that argument for multiple situations, so I get it. I understand both the defense and the prosecution's stance here, but I also think that just because somebody acknowledges that these illnesses exist doesn't mean they understand or even educated enough to know what that truly means, and what those symptoms are, and how catastrophic these things, these illnesses can be. That's just my personal opinion. I mentioned in previous episodes that after Lindsay was taken into custody, Patrick spoke out saying that he forgave Lindsay, and he also said that he hoped that the public would forgive her as well. Since then, he's also done some smaller interviews, but for the most part, he's tried to move on with his life as much as possible. He moved out of the house that he shared with Lindsay and the kids, and it later sold. In an article that Patrick was interviewed for in 2024, he explained that he was currently renting an apartment in Manhattan, and he kept close a few keepsakes from the kids to remind him of how his life used to be. In that same article, he also said, "I wasn't married to a monster. I was married to someone who got sick." Now, as I was doing research on this case, and the updates that have happened over the years, I had wondered if maybe his feelings had changed over the years, and what this upcoming trial would look like for him. And to, you know, maybe some people surprise, or maybe not, Patrick will be testifying during the trial, but he's not going to be testifying for the prosecution. He'll be testifying for the defense. Patrick also doesn't seem to be the only one in Lindsay's life still supporting her. Lindsay's parents have briefly spoken to the press recently regarding Lindsay and her upcoming trial. You know, there are a couple people from Connecticut, and they raise a nice family, and they have literally been in that hospital every single day with three years. How do you think it's going to impact Lindsay to have to relive what happened at trial? She doesn't know. I can't say that. I don't know. Dad, can we ask you the same thing? Just tell us about it. We love our daughter very much, and we're here just to support it anyway we possibly can. That's it. Now, of course, Lindsay's defense attorney is going to show some bias, but he's also made many different public statements about Lindsay and the type of mother that she was. It's important for people to realize that she was a great mother. Every night would would sing rascal flats song to her daughter to put her to sleep, they would dance on the kids bed. This is a woman that was an incredible, incredible mother. Something else that we can expect for this trial comes from the judges ruling on the prosecution's request to let the jurors visit Lindsay and Patrick's former home. This trial is expected to last anywhere from six to eight weeks, and I have no doubt that it is going to be completely full of emotion, very divided, and very tough for anybody to watch. I don't know personally that I am going to be able to cover all of it. I think that there are going to be times where I'm going to have to personally excuse myself while I'm keeping up with it. And I'm honestly just very curious what the verdict is going to be. I've seen a lot of people worrying and speculating online that this trial could potentially end in a hung jury if they can't come to to a decision together, which is very, very possible because based on the nature of this case, I can totally see that happening. I mean, look at it, trial one with Karen Reed. We couldn't, there was a holdout, people couldn't agree. This is something where even if there is one juror who has experienced those thoughts, those feelings, those emotions, or knows a family member or a friend, you know, that's it, that's all it takes. So I could totally see it happening. I am going to do my best to keep you updated on this trial. It's one that will be difficult for me, but as I said at the beginning of this episode, I do think that it is an important case. It is one that I think will help educate people and one that I think people just need to know about. And I don't care which campus it is. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, you are entitled to your belief and your opinions absolutely no matter what. So if this is something that you want me to follow and you want me to give you updates whether that's in a trial recap or in headline highlights, let me know, I absolutely will. Might, you know, take me a minute to gather myself, but I will do my best. And I also want to say one more thing. If you are a mom or an expectant mother or a brand new mom and you are ever experiencing any of these thoughts or these delusions or these fears or the detachment, you are not alone. It's not you, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Asking for help certainly is nothing to be embarrassed about and it does get better if you seek treatment and help. Not always, not always, I wish I could say always. For me, it did. It took me a while to even realize something was going on. But I want you to know you're not alone. If you are a new mom and you just delivered and you are thinking to yourself, you know, I should be in baby bliss. Everybody talks about how the moment you deliver baby, how you've never loved anything that much in your entire life and your heart is so full and you're doting on them and you can't stand to be away from them. And I don't feel that way. What's wrong with me? You're not alone. I was there. It took me a long time to figure that out. The numbness, the detachment I felt, just the wall that went up so much so and I shared it in my postpartum video that immediately after delivering my son, I even asked a nurse. I was like, feel like I'm in a haze right now. I feel like I'm drunk and that everything around me is gray and I can't snap out of it. Almost like when you're in a dream and you're trying to wake yourself up and I was like, is that normal? She thought I was just like the shock of my body and all of that, which could have obviously been a contributing factor. But my point is it's something that is very real and it's not something that should have any sort of shame or stigma around it. And so if you are going through this or have gone through it first and foremost, my heart is with you, I am very, very sorry and I know how difficult it is and how it feels like it is the end of the world and that you just wanna be a good mother to your children. But I also would like to take the moment to encourage you to reach out and get help and talk to your doctor, talk to your family because it is possible to get better. So with that said, if you are pregnant or if you are a new mother and you are in a crisis, the national maternal mental health outline provides free, confidential support. 24/7 in both English and Spanish and you can call or text the hotline at 1-833-9-Hell-4-MOMS. And if you are in an active self-harm crisis, please call the national hotline or if you know someone who is, please call the national hotline for self-harm. Sorry guys, that got a little bit away from me for a minute. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of 10 to Life. I will keep you updated if that is what you want and let's just all collectively pray together that all mothers get the help that they need so that we never have to talk about a case like this again. All right, thank you and until then, stay safe, bye.